Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zoney on July 02, 2010, 11:13:07 AM
-
Me in the 109k with an alt advantage, you in a 109f. What was that, 10 minute engagement probably? I kept my E and after only the first pass I knew I had someone who certainly knew what he was doing. Each pass seemed to get me a little closer to a decent deflection shot, and I took a few, conserving my guns where I could. Then after about 8 passes you pullled a wonderful little lag turn and were on me D400, nose down I go, lower than the trees pulling right just enough to stay out of any kind of lead shot and I gain a bit and get out of range. Back I come again, you're still on the deck, over and over and over. I'm busy, I'm thinking my way through this, and I'm patient, I know better than to get in a turn fight on the deck. I figured I probably pinged you a couple of times and had a pretty good chance on that last pass when suddenly your plane goes straight and level. I though, pilot wound, he's gone level just before he passes out so he doesn't crash, so I take the shot at D400 and boom, I'm flying through a cloud of debris.
It was only then that I took the time or had the time to look at the buffer to see who I had been fighting. Yup there it is, Agent360, but whats this?
It looks like as I was setting up each pass, (climbing out a bit, no more than D3), you had been typing a bit and had expressed your boredom, and then said you went level because it was such a lame fight, just to get it over with.
<S> sir. I was giving it my best. I was using my aircraft as I thought it had been modeled as I thought you were using yours to its' strengths. I learned a bit from that fight as I do any engagement. That was a great fight for me and I thought , the best engagement I have had since I started here 7 months ago.
-
IN
Edit: figured this thread was goin to go south but I guess I was wrong. Do your best to Fight on your terms, not on the other guys terms. There will be times when the tables will turn possibly several times until a winner comes out. Don't worry about hurting any feelings here, if someone can't get over getting killed then that's his problem. Learn to apply different tactics to the right situation and know the capabilities of both your and your opponent's aircraft
-
10 minutes?
Both still flying?
Down to the deck?
Lame fight?? :huh
-
a film would make this lots more fun
-
Zoney, as far as Agent360 is concerned if you're not willing to fight on his terms, it's a boring fight. There are a number of others with similar mentality, don't sweat it fight your fight.
-
Zoney, as far as Agent360 is concerned if you're not willing to fight on his terms, it's a boring fight. There are a number of others with similar mentality, don't sweat it fight your fight.
I don't often find myself a such a position, but I entirely agree with Gyrene here. :lol It sounds like you used your beefy engine and flew conservatively, which if you are in a turny 109F trying to counter that is infuriating. Everyone has been on both sides of this one at some point. You didn't get into his turn fight, so he got bored. Glad you enjoyed the engagement, but don't sweat the response too much. :aok
-
Me in the 109k with an alt advantage, you in a 109f. What was that, 10 minute engagement probably? I kept my E and after only the first pass I knew I had someone who certainly knew what he was doing. Each pass seemed to get me a little closer to a decent deflection shot, and I took a few, conserving my guns where I could. Then after about 8 passes you pullled a wonderful little lag turn and were on me D400, nose down I go, lower than the trees pulling right just enough to stay out of any kind of lead shot and I gain a bit and get out of range. Back I come again, you're still on the deck, over and over and over. I'm busy, I'm thinking my way through this, and I'm patient, I know better than to get in a turn fight on the deck. I figured I probably pinged you a couple of times and had a pretty good chance on that last pass when suddenly your plane goes straight and level. I though, pilot wound, he's gone level just before he passes out so he doesn't crash, so I take the shot at D400 and boom, I'm flying through a cloud of debris.
It was only then that I took the time or had the time to look at the buffer to see who I had been fighting. Yup there it is, Agent360, but whats this?
It looks like as I was setting up each pass, (climbing out a bit, no more than D3), you had been typing a bit and had expressed your boredom, and then said you went level because it was such a lame fight, just to get it over with.
<S> sir. I was giving it my best. I was using my aircraft as I thought it had been modeled as I thought you were using yours to its' strengths. I learned a bit from that fight as I do any engagement. That was a great fight for me and I thought , the best engagement I have had since I started here 7 months ago.
WOW. Focus on the enjoyment and education you received, not the BS story you were fed.
-
Agent only has one finger on each hand, so if he had enough time to type something on 200 between your passes, it must have been boring. Just saying.
:noid
-
If you're B&Zing a skilled pilot, you have to eventually take a chance if you expect to get a kill. Taking a chance means cutting throttle and going for a shot. Spraying at him on his low yoyo defensive counter measures and then perching back up over and over again will not get you a kill. I can see this being irritating and frustrating for Agent, for these reasons:
1. You were not going to kill him with the tactics you were using.
2. He was not going to kill you with the E you refused to give up.
3. He did not want to fight you any more, yet you insisted on continueing the tactics that were already proven not to work.
The reason I can make these assumptions without seeing a film is because, as you say, it lasted 10 minutes. If any 1v1 B&Z takes longer than a couple minutes for something eventful to happen, then you aren't doing it correctly. No disrespect intended.
That being said, everyone should fly the way they want. I'm certain Agent was back in his K4 hunting ya after that. :)
-
The difference here is Agent would have gotten in there and fought you instead of BnZing his opponent to sleep like you did.
-
The guys been flying 7 months like he said, he was flying the way he felt comfortable, flying his way, i see nothing wrong with that, like Grizz said "everyone should fly the way they want" couldnt agree more, in time and with the right people teaching Zoney, he just might give you what you want, dive in and dance then your towered, we all learn no matter how many years we have been in this game
-
Zoney did the right thing. They want you to "take a chance". You have the advantage keep it at all costs.
The only thing I can say zoney did wrong was linger at the one target too long. If you don't get him in a couple passes move on, unless you are sure he is the only con around.
You want the other pilot to be frustrated he will make a mistake or move on. If i am in BnZing mode I am going to keep alt advantage and work for the high con to the lower cons without lingering on one for too long.
Now agent could have done several things, getting him to miss a whole bunch doesn't improve his postion. So he is to blame for him being bored. Don't look to the other pilot when you get shot down look to yourself.
BnZing will work eventually the only thing you have to worry about is other cons coming to jump you.
-
The guys been flying 7 months like he said, he was flying the way he felt comfortable, flying his way, i see nothing wrong with that, like Grizz said "everyone should fly the way they want" couldnt agree more, in time and with the right people teaching Zoney, he just might give you what you want, dive in and dance then your towered, we all learn no matter how many years we have been in this game
1. And Agent should be able to fly like he wants. He didn't want to sit around and stay in a fight that wasn't going anywhere.
2. There is some governing law that we all respect and agree with that says that Zoney and Agent both have the right to fly however they want. Let's call that law The Pwnstitution.
3. The Pwnstitution gives Zoney the right to come on these boards and whine about Agent not being happy with how he flys.
4. The Pwnstitution gives others the right to take up for Zoney and make him feel better about the way he flys and paint Agent as a big meanie.
5. This exact same Pwnstitution gives Agent the right to say that he doesn't like the way Zoney was flying on 200.
It seems to me that everyone was within their rights according to the laws set forth in The Pwnstitution so I guess this thread is moot and can be locked now. Thanks.
Gavel.
-
Bottom line:
Zoney is eating steak tonight
Agent is steak tonight
-
1. And Agent should be able to fly like he wants. He didn't want to sit around and stay in a fight that wasn't going anywhere.
2. There is some governing law that we all respect and agree with that says that Zoney and Agent both have the right to fly however they want. Let's call that law The Pwnstitution.
3. The Pwnstitution gives Zoney the right to come on these boards and whine about Agent not being happy with how he flys.
4. The Pwnstitution gives others the right to take up for Zoney and make him feel better about the way he flys and paint Agent as a big meanie.
5. This exact same Pwnstitution gives Agent the right to say that he doesn't like the way Zoney was flying on 200.
It seems to me that everyone was within their rights according to the laws set forth in The Pwnstitution so I guess this thread is moot and can be locked now. Thanks.
Gavel.
I guess you should just auger immediately after you get bored when someone won't fly the way you have the advantage.
Zoney flew to his advantage. Just because he can't shoot like Grizz and get a kill in 2 minutes is no reason to ragg on him for taking so long to get the kill.
Usually the "bored" pilot in a faster plane would run away....
wrongway
-
I guess you should just auger immediately after you get bored when someone won't fly the way you have the advantage.
Zoney flew to his advantage. Just because he can't shoot like Grizz and get a kill in 2 minutes is no reason to ragg on him for taking so long to get the kill.
Usually the "bored" pilot in a faster plane would run away....
wrongway
Agent has the right to "ragg" on him just as much as Zoney has the right to fly however he wants and to whine about being ragged on. That's my only point.
Everyone is quick to point out Zoney's rights; I am just impartially and objectively pointing out Agent's rights.
-
Bottom line:
Zoney is eating steak tonight
Agent is steak tonight
:rofl
-
I guess you should just auger immediately after you get bored when someone won't fly the way you have the advantage.
Zoney flew to his advantage. Just because he can't shoot like Grizz and get a kill in 2 minutes is no reason to ragg on him for taking so long to get the kill.
Usually the "bored" pilot in a faster plane would run away....
wrongway
I've done that before, quite a few times actually. Get bored waiting for someone who wouldn't commit, but wouldn't go away either. Auger in and move on.
Once you get to a certain level of "skill" I think the game is tough to enjoy. I didn't enjoy flying 'competitive' planes because it was to easy to get kills, but I didn't enjoy flying the crappy planes because you get timid bumblediddlys in uber-planes that can't fight but also won't go away.
Of course, from their perspective it is a gut-wrenching, nerve-wracking, awe-inspiring and amazing fight. Much like the 8v1 can be enjoyable to some people, I guess.
I'd dearly love to be able to come back and enjoy the game, but every time I come back I get disgusted again after a weekend of the same crap that I got tired of in the first place.
Maybe one day :)...
-
Agent has the right to "ragg" on him just as much as Zoney has the right to fly however he wants and to whine about being ragged on. That's my only point.
Everyone is quick to point out Zoney's rights; I am just impartially and objectively pointing out Agent's rights.
It just sounds more like a veiled whine to me.
"I'm not going to survive this, so I'm bored."
More of an insult to someone who fought to their strengths.
Sure, 360 has a much right to whi... I mean ragg on someone as the next person.
Huzzah ch 200. :rock
wrongway
-
I've done that before, quite a few times actually. Get bored waiting for someone who wouldn't commit, but wouldn't go away either. Auger in and move on.
Once you get to a certain level of "skill" I think the game is tough to enjoy. I didn't enjoy flying 'competitive' planes because it was to easy to get kills, but I didn't enjoy flying the crappy planes because you get timid bumbletwittles in uber-planes that can't fight but also won't go away.
Of course, from their perspective it is a gut-wrenching, nerve-wracking, awe-inspiring and amazing fight. Much like the 8v1 can be enjoyable to some people, I guess.
I'd dearly love to be able to come back and enjoy the game, but every time I come back I get disgusted again after a weekend of the same crap that I got tired of in the first place.
Maybe one day :)...
That sums it up quite well... still addictive somehow, go figure. BUT sometimes, if a skilled/experienced opponent is left, he usually knows when you just want to go home and will let you go. And that's REALLY good sport.
-
I've had this 1 vs 1 type of dogfighting style many times, 109-k vs a 109-f ? anyone is going to fly their plane in the way it does best, no one is a gentlemen and going to turn fight with an aircraft they know they cannot beat.
this is how dogfighting is not balanced, what fun is it to fly against something that is far more superior such as a k4 vs a 109f with lower horse power ? unless you get a lucky shot, what good is the fight going to be ?
compair it to a racing car game, would you race a GTO against a nascar :lol, it would be so dumb. (GTO favorite car !!!) and a (SS :D). that's how it is when you do a 1 on 1 with 109-k and 109-f...
-
I've had this 1 vs 1 type of dogfighting style many times, 109-k vs a 109-f ? anyone is going to fly their plane in the way it does best, no one is a gentlemen and going to turn fight with an aircraft they know they cannot beat.
this is how dogfighting is not balanced, what fun is it to fly against something that is far more superior such as a k4 vs a 109f with lower horse power ? unless you get a lucky shot, what good is the fight going to be ?
compair it to a racing car game, would you race a GTO against a nascar :lol, it would be so dumb. (GTO favorite car !!!) and a (SS :D). that's how it is when you do a 1 on 1 with 109-k and 109-f...
By this reasoning there is no point in flying anything but a Late War plane in LW.
I guess those ten minutes of eveding, looking for a shot, were just no fun.
Ferrari GTO vs Nascar?
(yeah, I know... Poncho)
wrongway
-
It just sounds more like a veiled whine to me.
"I'm not going to survive this, so I'm bored."
That's because it is human nature to see other people’s situations and/or reactions to situations from the perspective of your own past experience. Yes, you probably would have eventually died in that situation, but it looks like Agent was going to run the guy our of ammo eventually since it had already lasted for 10 minutes. From my perspective and based on my past experience, he did just simply get bored.
-
By this reasoning there is no point in flying anything but a Late War plane in LW.
I guess those ten minutes of eveding, looking for a shot, were just no fun.
Ferrari GTO vs Nascar?
(yeah, I know... Poncho)
wrongway
Hmm ? known as a goat (GTO) big print on its butt bumper :D. never hate a old GTO he-he-he...
-
I enjoy these fights, but they can get boring. Atleast the BnZer in this case kept fighting. The worst is when the BnZer breaks off when he sees a friendly and only comes back in when that guy starts fighting his original opponent. I think you lose rights to the fight once you break off. Atleast give the new guy a chance to see what he can do.
There are 3 types of BnZer. The one that cant get the shot and eventually breaks off. The one that says "Fak it..Im gonna kill this guy, makes one mistake and pays for it. And the 3rd, the most dangerous type is the guy who can ride the edge. Attacking often, always saving a little more E than the opponent. Never fully committing, just attack attack attack, but always being in a position just over the pipper of the opponent on his way back up.
-
This is a 109-K down below.....
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/59/310049546268572d9c5b1.jpg)
This is a 109-F down below..... which one is better ? and don't count the looks ! :lol
(http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5864/35466436776c37efa49c1.jpg)
ooohhh daddy, love that gto above !!! got one sitting in the shop, need to get it fixed and ready to drive ! :aok
-
Let's call that law The Pwnstitution.
I'm going to celebrate Pwndependence day this weekend.
-
(http://www.legendsofnascar.com/Tyner_66_GTO_no24_see_email.jpg)
(http://image.automotive.com/f/features/10171369+pheader/hppp_0809_01_z+1971_pontiac_gto+front_view.jpg)
(http://homepage.mac.com/ssven5/Sites/Svensworldofwheels/images/pearson_gto/pgto13.jpg)
(http://image.automotive.com/f/features/10209138+soriginal/hppp_0809_08_z+ram_air_gto+front_view.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/pontiac4life/davidpearsonnascargto.jpg)
(http://www.portroyalyachts.com/imglib/250GTO.jpg)
wrongway
-
PLEASE !!! no more pictures ! I'll go car nuts, honestly i love cars that much.. muuuhahahahaaaa. anymore pics ? :D
Oh wait, I'll get some !
-
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7100/115901.jpg)
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8757/4508997045a2233504b91.jpg)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4316/467970977163a91f5e961.jpg)
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2725/4555093945ee0c4063a71.jpg)
Nothing like a old fashion car :).
-
Agent has the right to "ragg" on him just as much as Zoney has the right to fly however he wants and to whine about being ragged on. That's my only point.
Everyone is quick to point out Zoney's rights; I am just impartially and objectively pointing out Agent's rights.
Rights in a on line PC game :rofl
-
Agent only has one finger on each hand, so if he had enough time to type something on 200 between your passes, it must have been boring. Just saying.
:noid
1 up his nose the other up his ar... :uhoh
-
If you're B&Zing a skilled pilot, you have to eventually take a chance if you expect to get a kill. Taking a chance means cutting throttle and going for a shot. Spraying at him on his low yoyo defensive counter measures and then perching back up over and over again will not get you a kill. I can see this being irritating and frustrating for Agent, for these reasons:
1. You were not going to kill him with the tactics you were using.
2. He was not going to kill you with the E you refused to give up.
3. He did not want to fight you any more, yet you insisted on continueing the tactics that were already proven not to work.
The reason I can make these assumptions without seeing a film is because, as you say, it lasted 10 minutes. If any 1v1 B&Z takes longer than a couple minutes for something eventful to happen, then you aren't doing it correctly. No disrespect intended.
That being said, everyone should fly the way they want. I'm certain Agent was back in his K4 hunting ya after that. :)
Grizz, I think your dead on with that.. I will say this though, for those of us that are "learning" sometimes it's a bit frustrating to have your best efforts scorned on 200 by the better sticks.. Now I've gotten to the point that I generally ignore most of that because I know I'm getting better, little by slow (real slow).. It would be nice though if some of the "uber" sticks would have a bit more class sometimes.. I doubt I'll ever have the skillz of a Grizz or Agent360 etc. But as soon as I stopped worrying about it I started to improve, go figure.. So many look up to these guys (in a way) especially the ones who don't talk trash needlessly.. Hell, if I could fight AG360 to a stalemate, I'd consider that a victory in and of itself..
:salute
-
Agent wasn't pilot wounded....he prolly spilled his beer on his lap jabberin on 200.
-
1. And Agent should be able to fly like he wants. He didn't want to sit around and stay in a fight that wasn't going anywhere.
2. There is some governing law that we all respect and agree with that says that Zoney and Agent both have the right to fly however they want. Let's call that law The Pwnstitution.
I say take NOE out all together.
In 1. and 2. you must have meant as long as you agree with the way they fly. :headscratch: A bit hypocritical wouldn't you say? just sayin.
-
this is how dogfighting is not balanced, what fun is it to fly against something that is far more superior such as a k4 vs a 109f with lower horse power ? unless you get a lucky shot, what good is the fight going to be ?
compair it to a racing car game, would you race a GTO against a nascar :lol, it would be so dumb. (GTO favorite car !!!) and a (SS :D). that's how it is when you do a 1 on 1 with 109-k and 109-f...
The difference isn't absolutely huge, you can still fly in such a way as to retain your E and keep out of guns while bringing your opponent to a near co E state. If your target knows your there excess speed is your biggest enemy to getting a good gun solution, you have to do relatively little to avoid someone coming in at high speed.
Rights in a on line PC game :rofl
Customers have rights! everyone who plays is one ;)
-
The difference isn't absolutely huge, you can still fly in such a way as to retain your E and keep out of guns while bringing your opponent to a near co E state. If your target knows your there excess speed is your biggest enemy to getting a good gun solution, you have to do relatively little to avoid someone coming in at high speed.
But still that does not cover the fact if its a balanced fight or not, no matter how much E you might keep in a 109-f a plane with more horse power will always have the advantage in a dogfight.
-
In that situation I tend to keep giving them potential shots to goad 'em into blowing E and Position.
If they are just too timid I will start heading RTB and just time my evasions so I am heading in the right direction.
I have done this countless times and have literally dodged a guy for over a sector and made it home and landed.
-
In that situation I tend to keep giving them potential shots to goad 'em into blowing E and Position.
If they are just too timid I will start heading RTB and just time my evasions so I am heading in the right direction.
I have done this countless times and have literally dodged a guy for over a sector and made it home and landed.
:aok
Why didn't you just get bored and auger?
:devil
wrongway
-
Why didn't you just get bored and auger?
wrongway
That actually doesn't sound like a bad idea...
-
:aok
Why didn't you just get bored and auger?
:devil
wrongway
I don't take of if I don't plan on landing it.
(99.99999% of the time anyway)
-
But still that does not cover the fact if its a balanced fight or not, no matter how much E you might keep in a 109-f a plane with more horse power will always have the advantage in a dogfight.
Not really, extra E is only really useful if it can get you out of your enemy's guns for another attack, once you get stuck in gun range and start turning to stay out of guns the extra horsepower don't mean squat and the E states start to even out as you bleed E turning. And as a general rule thats to the 'slower' planes advantage.
-
Not really, extra E is only really useful if it can get you out of your enemy's guns for another attack, once you get stuck in gun range and start turning to stay out of guns the extra horsepower don't mean squat and the E states start to even out as you bleed E turning. And as a general rule thats to the 'slower' planes advantage.
But its countless effort just to get someone to pull their E down and altitude. Almost not worth the time to bother with such a dogfight.
-
I would have enjoyed the challenge of a smart opponent and kept fighting till someone died, not got bored, but everyone is different. No real point making a thread about it, would probably have showed more class if you had left the name out of it, if it had to be discussed. It's no big deal either way, and it shows how little impact the encounter had on Agent that he has not responded and probably will not bother. Agent is a class guy most of the time, I'm sure if you had asked for him to show you a K4 winning vs a 109f in the DA he would have happily obliged you. that would have improved your skill set more than this thread perhaps, who knows.
keep fighting how you enjoy
S!
-
But its countless effort just to get someone to pull their E down and altitude. Almost not worth the time to bother with such a dogfight.
Its a necessary part of flying in the MA the choice is not yours to accept the fight if someone is diving with more E or altitude to attack you thats their choice to make, you either evade them or get shot down. Watching people getting suckered into blowing their E is one of the more satisfying parts of the game.
-
Australian Style 1973 Ford XB GT-351.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/XB_GT_McLeod_Horn_Striped_Coupe.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/stock1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/stock2.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/hrdp_0704_01_z1973_XB_ford_falcon_c.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/O3.jpg)
-
This is now a Car thread.
:noid
(http://damox.com/cars/wallpaper/Pontiac/1969_Pontiac_GTO_Judge_large.jpg)
(http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/1969_Pontiac_GTO_Judge.jpg)
-
This is now a Car thread.
:noid
(http://damox.com/cars/wallpaper/Pontiac/1969_Pontiac_GTO_Judge_large.jpg)
(http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/1969_Pontiac_GTO_Judge.jpg)
Infinitely more interesting don't you think? I See a lot of rule#1 & #2 violations coming very soon.
-
Infinitely more interesting don't you think? I See a lot of rule#1 & #2 violations coming very soon.
Probably.
THREAD BACK ON TOPIC! *WHOOSH!*
He is using 200 banter against you.
He is in a far less superior plane. Much better turning radius.
He is trying to intice you into a turning fight with him do he can destroy you on the deck.
Never take muppet banter seriously... :noid
-
Hmmm! I saw NO whiiine from the OP, naming Agent was less than cooth but so be it! Everyone has been in the situation that BOTH of them were in. It can be very frustrating when you are the low less "motor heavy" plane and your opponenent just won't bite on your bait. That said, if zoney was able to corral Agent all by his lonesome even though he couldn't deliver the tater as a 7 month newb then that is impressive indeed! 7 months is barely enough time to learn the keyboard :aok Then again 7 months is NOT enough experience to corrall Agent so I'm not so sure about the 7 month quote!! sounds suspect to me!
The k4 is the "cats meow" and quite UBER so I'm sure Agent knew he was going to do nothing with you while you maintain energy and a nose up, so WTG you flew it very well for a 7 monther but it would have been sad from a 3 year plus gamer ;)
no longer doing this--> :joystick: :salute
-
But its countless effort just to get someone to pull their E down and altitude. Almost not worth the time to bother with such a dogfight.
I often find those type of fights to be the most fun, and most satisfying.
To auger in, or allow yourself to be shot in order to end the fight is admitting defeat, IMO. I'm in it to win, even if I'm at a disadvantage.
Also, I find those type of fights to be some of the most useful when it comes to learning skills which pay large dividends.
-
In 1. and 2. you must have meant as long as you agree with the way they fly. :headscratch: A bit hypocritical wouldn't you say? just sayin.
Hypocritical? Not at all. Don't you see that I have seen the light? I'm on the side of you and your ilk. I agree with all of you bleeding-hearted, tear-streaked faced, defenders of the poor persecuted players who are ruthlessly and cruelly abused by people like Agent. I have subscribed to your very argument that you and yours trumpet time and again - ad nauseam. I am saying that everyone has the right to fly how they want to fly.
I am not the hypocrite here. The hypocrite is actually you and yours. You say that everyone should be able to fly how they like but actually you don't mean that at all. What you mean is that everyone should allow you to fly how you want to fly - something that I agree with actually. However, I would like to point out that almost invariably, if people fly different that YOU then they are attacked and maligned - by you and yours. This case with Agent is a perfect example. Agent decided that he wanted to FLY straight and get shot down. According to the philosophy that you preach he should be left alone to do just that. However, here we see him being portrayed by those of your ilk as a big, bad meanie pants because he flew his way. So see, you are actually the hypocrite.
BTW, I'm glad you brought up NOE. I appreciate you taking that out of context and bringing it to this thread because NOEers provide another prime example of this kind of hypocrisy. I can't even begin to count the number of base-taker-NOE-win-teh-war guys I've heard announcing that they are going to take out hangers to kill a furball because they can't get anyone to help them win teh war, aka fly their way. It happens all the time. These are the "live and let fly guys". They don't want those pesky furballers to fly the way they want if they aren't helping teh war effort. Hypocrisy I tell ya! Hypocrisy. But it's okay when you do it.
Just let Agent fly how he wants and leave him alone, you meanies. :D
-
I cannot believe Ghana lost the darn game.
semp
btw agent is right 10 min to bnz and no kill?
-
BTW, that black car up there underneath the red one with the license plate xbracr is smurfy.
-
Mad Max ... smurfy?
IN
token
-
Sounds to me like Agent was flying so as to avoid being killed, vs having a chance to kill his opponent. I also enjoy fighting the high/safe BnZer from time to time. The key is to not just foil their attempt every time to where they get discouraged and leave, but instead to let them stay on your six. Usually after a very gentle turn, they won't break off. As they follow, the E states gradually even out. As they draw closer, start turning a bit tighter. If they're going faster, then they'll start blacking out before you do, so use that as a way to judge how much he can turn before blacking out. Just keep drawing him in, and when he gets to guns range, a normal reversal can be initiated. If the opponent breaks off, levelling your wings and climbing immediately is the fastest way to even out E states.
-
However, here we see him being portrayed by those of your ilk as a big, bad meanie pants because he flew his way.
I thought he was being portrayed that way because of his machismo on 200? The way he flew was complimented, actually. If there was any negative slant inferred, I don't think it had anything to do with his flying...
-
I thought he was being portrayed that way because of his machismo on 200? The way he flew was complimented, actually. If there was any negative slant inferred, I don't think it had anything to do with his flying...
Yup. Spot on.
I guess it's actually another "don't tune 200" rant?
wrongway
-
I often find those type of fights to be the most fun, and most satisfying.
To auger in, or allow yourself to be shot in order to end the fight is admitting defeat, IMO. I'm in it to win, even if I'm at a disadvantage.
Also, I find those type of fights to be some of the most useful when it comes to learning skills which pay large dividends.
Had some dandys with you :salute
-
Heya Zoney,
to help you out with how your encounter went with Agent in your opening post,I would suggest the following.....
Start with what Filth posted in Reply #24 regarding the 3rd type of BnZer..... you posted you was extending nearly 3K away before reversing..by doing this you was gaining no ground and actually giving up ground to Agent to come back and recover or even increase his energy state for your next pass on him..... once you begin your BnZ attack most times anything beyond 2K extending is very wasteful on your part...,
next take what Filth posted regarding the 3rd type BnZ'er and mix it in with what MtnMan followed up with in Reply #50 about "always be in it to win it......and finish it with what TonyJoey mentions in Reply #55 of this thread.....
work on these and as others have said, do not let others "get inside your thoughts" from 200 rants... psychological manipulation is just as much a part of on-line air combat simulation against another human as having very good BFM/ACM ability's/knowledge.... learn to block those rants out of your mental picture when in a dogfight in-game.......
and you will find yourself improving each day you move forward in your learning process.....
hope this is of some help....
-
I was 'flying' at the time the exchange took place. Agent was giving him a hard time about not engaging the 109F. It was in good fun trying to get Zoney to fly a different fight. When Zoney came on 200 he was respectful of Agent and <S> him. The conversation afterwards seemed respectful as well as Agent and Zoney talked about the fight and Zoney acknowledged where he was on the learning curve.
As far as the post, Zoney seems to be following up on that. No whine, neither guy was a bad guy in the end.
-
I was 'flying' at the time the exchange took place. Agent was giving him a hard time about not engaging the 109F. It was in good fun trying to get Zoney to fly a different fight. When Zoney came on 200 he was respectful of Agent and <S> him. The conversation afterwards seemed respectful as well as Agent and Zoney talked about the fight and Zoney acknowledged where he was on the learning curve.
As far as the post, Zoney seems to be following up on that. No whine, neither guy was a bad guy in the end.
I saw it too. While I agree it looked like they eventually gotten to a "respectful" point in the end, I wouldn't agree that Agent's exchanges looked like they were made "in good fun". Maybe they were... But that's not how they appeared to me.
Disrespectful, arrogant, spoiled, childish, belittling, and a few other similar descriptions come to mind relating how his exchanges looked (to me, just another pilot in the arena, not involved in the fight at all). Were I Zoney (or any one of countless other pilots) I'd have dismissed Agent as being unworthy of my time, or worth a response at all, regardless of how he can make a "turnier" plane turn. Judging from the comments that then came across the country channel, I'm not alone in that interpretation.
Sadly, those type of comments are fairly normal though, so I guess we should just act like they're acceptable.
At the same time Agent "earned" the "big, bad, meanie pants" title, so why not let him have it. Maybe that was his goal. Maybe he came across on 200 exactly the way he wanted to, and is proud of it.
-
Also, I find those type of fights to be some of the most useful when it comes to learning skills which pay large dividends.
There is no better way to learn then from the best of the best pilots in a head on level alt merge.
-
No whine, neither guy was a bad guy in the end.
Where's the drama in that? :headscratch:
-
Mtnman is a class act :salute
-
Excellent responses gentelmen. I learned from this posting. In the interest of clarity:
1. I have been flying since December 2009, flew WB and before that AW alot.
2. My motive for posting this was to let Agent360 know it's cool that he was a bit upset at first, especially because he calmed down after I responded on 200 with civility and deference to his opinion.
3. I wanted to point out an example of a situation that could have easily mushroomed into a 200 namecalling but with just a bit of civility salutes were exchanged.
4. I value the diverse opinions and wish to be a part of this community.
5. I enjoyed the fight and truly wished to thank Agent for it.
Thank you <S>
-
Germany 4-0!!! :aok
-
WOW! very intersting thread
S! Zoney...it's all good.
I did give Zoney a 200 lashing. This is true.
Mtman said "Disrespectful, arrogant, spoiled, childish, belittling, and a few other similar descriptions "....not sure about that one but I did say "lame" a bunch. If I call you a "twit", "pond scum", "ho bag", "looser", "coward" or any combonation of those involving "twit" that would be much more serious. I would say on the Muppet banter scale he got a....."3" lashing (1 being nice and 10 being banned)
I will say that Zoney reacted in quite a gentlemanly mannor to my 200 lashing. I did see that and we exchanged salutes.
My irritation at anyone lasts about as long as it takes me to drink a beer, which isn't very long.
I know now that Zoney is a rookie player. I am sure he didn't quite know what to make of my defense. He tried a few times to get guns but it resulted in a close call for him. So, naturally he did the only thing he could do and that was extend out.
The fight did go 10 min..at least. I was on 5 min of fuel when I flew strait and got shot on purpose to find out who it was. I could have just augured but at least I gave him a gun kill. Did I concede defeat..perhaps.
My point was to give Zoney an empirical victory (or Pyrrhic victory for you history buffs). If you guys don't know what that is look it up.
My reason for being irritated was the extensions of 3k or more, a few out of icon range.
I tried to keep him in the phone booth, bet he kept running off the other side of the street. I tried the street and then he ran to the next block.
I engaged a few more times then it became obvious this was a stale mate. He couldn't shoot me and I couldn't catch him.
At the start we did get into a good fight. We climbed, turned, maneuvered, but I did get good reverses and when I did Zoney ran for the hills.
Either engage and fight or leave the guy alone and go find another easier kill...that my opinion.
At least Zoney learned something from the fight and this thread. There is some good info in here regarding BZ attacks
-
A Pyrrhic victory would be one that was devastingly costly to the victor.
This doesn't come close.
Empirical is knowledge gained by observation, experience, or experiment. Zoney experienced a victory so we have to give you that one.
-
4. I value the diverse opinions and wish to be a part of this community.
You're a good man, Zoney. Do us all a favor and stick around and never let jerks like me discourage ya.
-
Heya Zoney,
to help you out with how your encounter went with Agent in your opening post,I would suggest the following.....
Start with what Filth posted in Reply #24 regarding the 3rd type of BnZer..... you posted you was extending nearly 3K away before reversing..by doing this you was gaining no ground and actually giving up ground to Agent to come back and recover or even increase his energy state for your next pass on him..... once you begin your BnZ attack most times anything beyond 2K extending is very wasteful on your part...,
next take what Filth posted regarding the 3rd type BnZ'er and mix it in with what MtnMan followed up with in Reply #50 about "always be in it to win it......and finish it with what TonyJoey mentions in Reply #55 of this thread.....
work on these and as others have said, do not let others "get inside your thoughts" from 200 rants... psychological manipulation is just as much a part of on-line air combat simulation against another human as having very good BFM/ACM ability's/knowledge.... learn to block those rants out of your mental picture when in a dogfight in-game.......
and you will find yourself improving each day you move forward in your learning process.....
hope this is of some help....
great post.. I have a different opinion though..
have the fight (in a sorta way).. go to the da and learn in 30mins what will take you 3months or better in the MA... Especially if its a muppet.. stay respectful and I bet the muppet will teach you.. Prolly the same for other good sticks mixed around.. I can only speak for the muppets though.. They call you out.. Go to the DA and see if you can learn.. You can learn even when the badguy is a love muffin.. The DA doesn't have to be about anger and whatnot.. If you've been flying for 7months against a vet stick.. You should lose.. that time... but next?
-
A Pyrrhic victory would be one that was devastingly costly to the victor.
This doesn't come close.
Empirical is knowledge gained by observation, experience, or experiment. Zoney experienced a victory so we have to give you that one.
You are sort of correct but literally.
Empirical victory is an actual legal term used to define a legal victory at great cost, or to describe a victory that doesn't result in serious punishment.
A "Pyrrhic victory" is a military term normally used to describe battles.
The terms have become used in many types of analogies involving all mannor of discussions....business..phil osophy..debate...etc.
The term as I used it describes the second definition: A hollow or meaningless victory. You win but get nothing for it.
The point is not about the victory but what it cost or more accurately here what you didn't gain
-
sounds like a cop-out from yet another dweeblet avoiding a fight
-
Who's Agent? Sounds like a newb :rolleyes:
-
He takes dictation for Grizz during the special meetings in the basement/ dungeon place.
(http://scienceblogs.com/isisthescientist/upload/2009/03/stuff_you_send_me/bring-out-the-gimp.jpg)
-
I think its about time we have another car pic or two now.. :D :rock
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x320/FearFactor_photos/Photo025-1.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x320/FearFactor_photos/Photo026.jpg)
-
Australian Style 1973 Ford XB GT-351.
Now that is a car. Looks very familiar. Oh say about a 1970-1971 Ford Torino with the hood scoops from a 1972 Mustang Mach I. Like you taste in cars.
-
The one on my pics is my 1973 Camaro Z28 by the way, but it is powered by a Ford 400M Cleveland.. :noid
-
I had a 72 firebird that looked just like it .
-
You are sort of correct but literally.
Empirical victory is an actual legal term used to define a legal victory at great cost, or to describe a victory that doesn't result in serious punishment.
Sorry to be a smarty pants but your English lesson is annoying me. First of all its not called an "empirical" victory...its an "empiric" victory. That IS the actual term you were searching for. In the legal sense an EMPIRIC VICTORY is where the plaintiff wins but is not satisfied with the results. It has nothing to do with "a great cost etc." So lets say you sue a drug company and you win but are awarded only one dollar in damages and you were hoping for more. You technically win but you don't get the secondary gain you expected from the victory. I guess your hope was by giving up on the fight you would give the OP a "hollow victory." But at least lets establish that this is the term you meant to use...Empiric Victory. It would be sad for AHers to be running around impressing folks with their usage of the term "empirical victory". Though I would have enjoyed watching a lawyer's face as he was lectured about "the great cost of an empirical victory" :D
A "Pyrrhic victory" IS a military term normally used to describe battles.
This is not a term that makes any sense with your post. "The phrase is named after King Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties in defeating the Romans at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC during the Pyrrhic War." (quoted for succintness from wiki). This was not a hollow victory...King Pyrrhus kept winning battles but could not replace his men at the rate the Romans could. In a sense it was an unsustainable victory. I don't have any idea how your original comment uses this term properly. I was amused by your entreaty for us to "look it up." I hope this helps
The terms have become used in many types of analogies involving all mannor of discussions....business..phil osophy..debate...etc.
The term as I used it describes the second definition: A hollow or meaningless victory. You win but get nothing for it.
The point is not about the victory but what it cost or more accurately here what you didn't gain
-
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z77/demaine_d/Emoticon/vomit.gif)
-
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z77/demaine_d/Emoticon/vomit.gif)
LOL
-
Falconwing,
Since you brought it up.
I am sorry to have to school you like this but...
Empiric is a noun.
Use: Zoney is an empiric. (which he is not, or at least I don't think he is)
Empirical is an adjective.
Use: I gave Zoney an empirical victory.
Empirical being the adjective to victory. I did not call Zoney an empiric as this would be an insult in this situation.
A Pyrrhic victory: You are correct on your origin of the phrase. What you do not understand is how to use the phrase in context other than the pure definition.
An "empiric victory" IS a legal term. The word "empiric" is used as a noun to refer to the defendant in legal cases where the plantiff looses at great cost in either expenses or effort, or, results in a technical victory resulting in no punishment in relation to the crime....more of a slap on the wrist.
Both words are often used in the same sense. It depends on what context one is speaking.
In my use of the phrase an "empirical victory" would be correct. However, we have been debating a topic involving combat. So perhaps "pyrrhical victory" might have been appropriate as well.
Except that, empirical is more appropriate due to the context of the use. Empirical is more widely known due to its legal use and is more commonly used in reference to business, philosophy or debate.
Pyrrhic is better used in references to military or perhaps political battles.
Really though, one could say "empirical victory" or "Pyrrhic victory", it just depends on the topic at hand.
Empirical is often used to desribe a "hollow victory" or a "victory of no value, as nothing is gained".
I chose to use "empirical" because I thought it applied to the topic better than "Pyrrhic".
-
Falconwing,
Since you brought it up.
I am sorry to have to school you like this but...
Empiric is a noun.
Use: Zoney is an empiric. (which he is not, or at least I don't think he is)
Empirical is an adjective.
Use: I gave Zoney an empirical victory.
No no no....you are creating new words inappropriately....you gave him an empiric victory. To use your words "look it up"
Empirical being the adjective to victory. I did not call Zoney an empiric as this would be an insult in this situation.
Why would you call him an empiric??? That makes no sense as an option? We agree that noone is an empiric :aok
A Pyrrhic victory: You are correct on your origin of the phrase. What you do not understand is how to use the phrase in context other than the pure definition.
O rly???????
An "empiric victory" IS a legal term. The word "empiric" is used as a noun to refer to the defendant in legal cases where the plantiff looses at great cost in either expenses or effort, or, results in a technical victory resulting in no punishment in relation to the crime....more of a slap on the wrist.
Once again you are missing the true usage of the legal term. It has nothing to do with how much the victory "cost" you. It is that even though you won....you did not get what you were looking for. In a sense you are half right.
Both words are often used in the same sense. It depends on what context one is speaking.
In my use of the phrase an "empirical victory" would be correct. However, we have been debating a topic involving combat. So perhaps "pyrrhical victory" might have been appropriate as well.
No No No again!!! This is a perfect example of what you can not do....You don't say Pyrhhical...the term is phyrric victory. You don't make up a conjugation by saying "pyrrhical". You are inventing conjugations of the word that are not appropriate. Just as you don't invent phyrrical you can't invent empirical as a the way to describe an empiric victory. Nouns can be used as adjectives...maybe that is what you are missing here??? I can say "an American victory" without haviing to say "an Americanal victory".
Except that, empirical is more appropriate due to the context of the use. Empirical is more widely known due to its legal use and is more commonly used in reference to business, philosophy or debate.
Pyrrhic is better used in references to military or perhaps political battles.
No...Pyrrhical "references" an ancient battle for its context...but its common usage has to do with non-military situations.
Really though, one could say "empirical victory" or "Pyrrhic victory", it just depends on the topic at hand.
If one topic had to do with winning in an unsustainable manner (phyrric victory) vs winning in a manner that does not provide satisfaction (empiric victory)
Empirical is often used to desribe a "hollow victory" or a "victory of no value, as nothing is gained".
I chose to use "empirical" because I thought it applied to the topic better than "Pyrrhic".
You are correct that the situation being discussed is most closely represented (from your viewpoint) as an empiric victory. At least that is why you let yourself be shotdown.
-
More cars please.
-
what he said ^^
-
More cars please.
I had one of these for a summer in the Mid 80's.
(http://www.pontiacpower.net/pictures/73ta2.jpg)
(http://www.pontiacsonline.com/HA%20SD%20455.jpg)
Buddy had one of these
(http://media.motortopia.com/files/697/vehicle/45c0cda2ed017/70cuda440a.jpg)
We spent a lot of $ on tires IIRC.
I will say my all time favorite car I had growing up was this...
(http://www.americanluxurycar.com/Olds98/images/RegencyBroughamCover.jpg)
It was a custom 98 owned by a GM executive (my dad managed the benefits for the Missouri Auto Dealers Association) and had a few 'special' options in it that were not release by GM for a few years. (such as a factory digital stereo)
Last of the cast iron .350's and built like a tank. I once ramped it off a bridge and got a good 50' of air a la Dukes of Hazzard.
(another story and the car was never quite right after I did that...)
There is something to be said for being 16yrs old and having a car you could lay down flat in the back set of.
Unlike the picture mine was Gold in color and was nicknamed "the Goldsmobile" but I could only find this tiny pic of it in that color.
(http://neagara.org/_cache/Oldsmobile/img/Oldsmobile_Delta_88_0.jpg)
-
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/DSCF0714.jpg?t=1278344511)
:D
-
WOW , My 72 firebird looked just like that trans am , lol .
-
Someone is getting OWNT :aok I'm just not smart enough to know who :huh :rofl :O :uhoh :headscratch:
:bolt:
-
Falconwing,
Your going to have to do better than first hit google searches on the word. If that is the extent of
your experience with the word then this explains your confusion.
Empiric is an old word that is not used very much in modern literature. It's origin is circa 1600.
Empiric is used to describe knowledge in some way, such as "empiric data" or "empirical evidence"
Why then would there be such a thing as an"empirical victory". This comes from the fact that the
root word empiric was used to describe physicians who practiced medicine from experience only,
not relying on scientific method. They were often wrong and their treatments harmful. They were
then branded as quacks or Charlton's. Therefor, their treatments were of no value and even
counter productive.
The word then found use later circa 1700 to mean an act of no value. Since empiric describes
knowledge it was often used in literature to describe failures involving topics about philosophy and
politics. This is why it has been used in law to describe failures or loss.
Law is based on the concept of right and wrong. So, saying "empirical victory" really referred to
whether or not it was right to win or if the legal fight was moral at all.
In the 20th century the phrase became an idiom to mean a "hollow victory" in the context of right or
wrong. It was further generalized and used in types of discussion not involving law specifically and
simply became used generally to describe any kind of "hollow victory"
One of the english languages adjective suffix's is "al"
So, if you put the suffix "al" on the end of empiric, you get "empirical". This is why IT APPEARS in
the dictionary as an adjective. There is also "empiricism", "empiricist", and "empirically".
Depending on the use, empiric CAN be used as an adjective as well.
The phrase "empiric victory" and "empirical victory" mean exactly the same thing. The use is
proper either way. However, technically, if one uses the word to describe a noun, the literal
adjective form is proper vs using the implied form as an adjective.
Most people think that the proper phrase would be "pyrrhic victory". This type of victory describes
a victory that comes with great or unacceptable losses. Such as loosing all of your soldiers or in
law spending great amounts of money and using up resources.
In law the term empiric is used due to its roots being knowledge, right and wrong. Further, it is in
fact, used to describe a civil legal battle where large amounts of money were spent to win but
without significant or even no return for the win and in criminal law where a lengthy trial resulted in
no serious punishment to the defendant.
A pyrrhic victory is one where you still win but at a cost so great it becomes worthless. You do win
and may keep winning and gaining something of value but all the time you are loosing more than
you win.
An empirical victory is one where you win (with or without great loss of something valuable) but did
not gain anything of value for it. One only gets to say "i was right". The win gained nothing,
accomplished no goal, had no effect positive or negative. It achieved absolutely nothing. But the act
of winning did not result in a great loss of anything to you. This is quite different from a pyrrhic
victory.
Who's your daddy now???
-
Ummm...once again the correct term is empiric victory....you invented the term empirical...sort of like ebonics etc. Just like you were trying to say "phyrrical victory" instead of "phyrric victory." The fact you ever used the term "phyrric victory" to describe what you were trying to do with the OP illustrated that you had no grasp of the terms and were in over your head.
Since you seem to question my education and experience...I worked as a paralegal in the Environmental law field before I started medical school. So I am familiar with the correct usage of legal terms. I was also involved in Health Care Law during my tenure as Chief of Medicine at my local hospital.
Other then that thanks for repeating everything I already told you but in 3000 words of rambling.
And I hate to bring it up, but this is the second time in as many posts that you have spelled "losing" incorrectly. "loosing" is a completely different word.... :neener: The first time i figured you just mistyped...to avoid what happened with lulu in another post...is English your first language??? :uhoh
BTW I am sure my dad wouldn't sport a marijuana logo as an avatar...so you are off the hook in regards to paternity! :cheers:
-
Ummm...once again the correct term is empiric victory....you invented the term empirical...sort of like ebonics etc. Just like you were trying to say "phyrrical victory" instead of "phyrric victory." The fact you ever used the term "phyrric victory" to describe what you were trying to do with the OP illustrated that you had no grasp of the terms and were above your head.
Other then that thanks for repeating everything I already told you but in 3000 words of rambling.
And I hate to bring it up, but this is the second time in as many posts that you have spelled "losing" incorrectly. "loosing" is a completely different word.... :neener: The first time i figured you just mistyped...to avoid what happened with lulu in another post...is English your first language??? :uhoh
You dropped your badge, officer.
(http://wesleying.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Grammar-Police.png)
-
Falconwing,
Your going to have to do better than first hit google searches on the word. If that is the extent of
your experience with the word then this explains your confusion.
Empiric is an old word that is not used very much in modern literature. It's origin is circa 1600.
Empiric is used to describe knowledge in some way, such as "empiric data" or "empirical evidence"
Why then would there be such a thing as an"empirical victory". This comes from the fact that the
root word empiric was used to describe physicians who practiced medicine from experience only,
not relying on scientific method. They were often wrong and their treatments harmful. They were
then branded as quacks or Charlton's. Therefor, their treatments were of no value and even
counter productive.
The word then found use later circa 1700 to mean an act of no value. Since empiric describes
knowledge it was often used in literature to describe failures involving topics about philosophy and
politics. This is why it has been used in law to describe failures or loss.
Law is based on the concept of right and wrong. So, saying "empirical victory" really referred to
whether or not it was right to win or if the legal fight was moral at all.
In the 20th century the phrase became an idiom to mean a "hollow victory" in the context of right or
wrong. It was further generalized and used in types of discussion not involving law specifically and
simply became used generally to describe any kind of "hollow victory"
One of the english languages adjective suffix's is "al"
So, if you put the suffix "al" on the end of empiric, you get "empirical". This is why IT APPEARS in
the dictionary as an adjective. There is also "empiricism", "empiricist", and "empirically".
Depending on the use, empiric CAN be used as an adjective as well.
The phrase "empiric victory" and "empirical victory" mean exactly the same thing. The use is
proper either way. However, technically, if one uses the word to describe a noun, the literal
adjective form is proper vs using the implied form as an adjective.
Most people think that the proper phrase would be "pyrrhic victory". This type of victory describes
a victory that comes with great or unacceptable losses. Such as loosing all of your soldiers or in
law spending great amounts of money and using up resources.
In law the term empiric is used due to its roots being knowledge, right and wrong. Further, it is in
fact, used to describe a civil legal battle where large amounts of money were spent to win but
without significant or even no return for the win and in criminal law where a lengthy trial resulted in
no serious punishment to the defendant.
A pyrrhic victory is one where you still win but at a cost so great it becomes worthless. You do win
and may keep winning and gaining something of value but all the time you are loosing more than
you win.
An empirical victory is one where you win (with or without great loss of something valuable) but did
not gain anything of value for it. One only gets to say "i was right". The win gained nothing,
accomplished no goal, had no effect positive or negative. It achieved absolutely nothing. But the act
of winning did not result in a great loss of anything to you. This is quite different from a pyrrhic
victory.
Who's your daddy now???
Stop typing "loosing" for "losing" please :devil It really makes it hard to have a grammatical argument with you when you can't conjugate words.
Grizz...one muppet at a time please :noid
-
Ummm...once again the correct term is empiric victory....you invented the term empirical...sort of like ebonics etc. Just like you were
trying to say "phyrrical victory" instead of "phyrric victory." The fact you ever used the term "phyrric victory" to describe what you
were trying to do with the OP illustrated that you had no grasp of the terms and were in over your head.
Since you seem to question my education and experience...I worked as a paralegal in the Environmental law field before I started
medical school. So I am familiar with the correct usage of legal terms. I was also involved in Health Care Law during my tenure as
Chief of Medicine at my local hospital.
Other then that thanks for repeating everything I already told you but in 3000 words of rambling.
And I hate to bring it up, but this is the second time in as many posts that you have spelled "losing" incorrectly. "loosing" is a
completely different word.... :neener: The first time i figured you just mistyped...to avoid what happened with lulu in another post...is
English your first language??? :uhoh
BTW I am sure my dad wouldn't sport a marijuana logo as an avatar...so you are off the hook in regards to paternity! :cheers:
You should spell "pyrrhic" correctly.
I never questioned your education only where you got your information.
Since you are so smart why haven't you bothered to pick a dictionary and actually look up the word "empirical". LOLOL ...an ebonic word. The fact that you don't know that empirical is the adjective for empiric is very embarrassing for you.
Here I will help you:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=empirical
And
Websters unabridged dictionary, second edition, page 594.
em-pir-ic-al, em-pir-ic, a. 1. relying or based solely on experiments or experience; as, the empirical method.
2. relying or based on practical experience without reference to scientific principles; as, an empirical remedy.
Dude!!!!! just pick up the dictionary and read it and you won't look so idiotic.
It's even worse that you are doctor and don't know this since it is a reference to medicine.
I have already explained to you the origin and use of empirical and why there is such a thing as an "empirical victory"
I even explained to you the difference between an "empirical victory" and a "pyrrhic victory".
I did not repeat anything you said. I explained to you why you were wrong.
Now you are trying to say I repeated what you said...ummm are you drunk or something.
I included "pyrrhic" in parenthesis because that term is easy to understand and in "common" use they are used interchangeably because most don't know the difference.
Apparently, even you as an educated person having a medical degree can't understand the word either. Maybe you should stick to pyrrhic and just leave empiric to people who actually understand the word.
Pointing out a simple insignificant word misspelling and my avatar is a sign you are attempting to get out of the central argument by distraction...definitely a sign YOU are in over YOUR head on this one.
BTW, I misspelled "losing" with two S's not two 0's (lossing). I obviously hit the S twice. Your lack of attention to detail is quite obvious. If your going to point out stuff like that you should get it right.
If you are going be an expert here then I suggest you submit some "empirical evidence".
I challenge you to provide any evidence that any of my explanations are wrong.
PS - I was a paramedic for 15 years, was in pre med until kids came along, and worked in my mothers law office as a paralegal for 5 years. I was a flight paramedic at the University of South Alabama (level 1 trauma center and teaching hospital) for 4 of those years and schooled rookie doctors in the art of saving lives. I delt with many idiot doctors like you in the very same way I am dealing with you now....showing you that a book education don't mean jack unless you know how to use it practically.
-
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you :cool:
-
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you :cool:
:rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
-
More OZ muscle.
1972 SE E55 340 V8 Valiant Charger.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/myvhe55-1.jpg)
-
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you :cool:
heheheheh.
I know. My wife got wind of this due to my conversations with my good friend who is a Dr. of english literature and with my mother who is an attorney. All of them are like....are you serious...why are you even bothering with this childish argument. :headscratch:
LOLOL....i just enjoy an intellectual debate every now and then...im a nerd.
:neener:
-
im a reel goode speler :D
-
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you :cool:
One might say they are sporting for an emperic/emperical victory? :D
-
:D
No, it's empericalic, you're saying it wrong!
-
Since you seem to question my education and experience...I worked as a paralegal in the Environmental law field before I started medical school. So I am familiar with the correct usage of legal terms. I was also involved in Health Care Law during my tenure as Chief of Medicine at my local hospital.
Got a pic of your car?
-
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you :cool:
:D Do you have a picture?
-
I cant waste anymore time trying to educate you. You seem unable to grasp that the proper term is empiric victory and not empirical victory. I can't help you....
Pointing out a simple insignificant word misspelling and my avatar is a sign you are attempting to get out of the central argument by distraction...definitely a sign YOU are in over YOUR head on this one.
BTW, I misspelled "losing" with two S's not two 0's (lossing). I obviously hit the S twice. Your lack of attention to detail is quite obvious. If your going to point out stuff like that you should get it right.
But I CAN help you understand that the word you are looking for is "lose" and not "loose." You seem to say it was a typo...since I am not a great requote dude I will quote you from three separate areas where you repeatedly made this "typo" in my subsequent texts. I'll highlight the terms in red
If you are going be an expert here then I suggest you submit some "empirical evidence".
I challenge you to provide any evidence that any of my explanations are wrong.
PS - I was a paramedic for 15 years, was in pre med until kids came along, and worked in my mothers law office as a paralegal for 5 years. I was a flight paramedic at the University of South Alabama (level 1 trauma center and teaching hospital) for 4 of those years and schooled rookie doctors in the art of saving lives. I delt with many idiot doctors like you in the very same way I am dealing with you now....showing you that a book education don't mean jack unless you know how to use it practically.
I cant even begin to express the level of respect i have for folks like you. :eek: Wow another guy who was premed...awesome. :aok Thank goodness for those paramedics who can school doctors :rolleyes: You really can't see yourself can you????? :bolt:
-
WOW! very intersting thread
S! Zoney...it's all good.
I did give Zoney a 200 lashing. This is true.
Mtman said "Disrespectful, arrogant, spoiled, childish, belittling, and a few other similar descriptions "....not sure about that one but I did say "lame" a bunch. If I call you a "twit", "pond scum", "ho bag", "looser", "coward" or any combonation of those involving "twit" that would be much more serious. I would say on the Muppet banter scale he got a....."3" lashing (1 being nice and 10 being banned)
Here you are thinking "loser" is spelled looser the first time I noted it.....
-
Falconwing,
Since you brought it up.
....
An "empiric victory" IS a legal term. The word "empiric" is used as a noun to refer to the defendant in legal cases where the plantiff looses at great cost in either expenses or effort, or, results in a technical victory resulting in no punishment in relation to the crime....more of a slap on the wrist.
Both words are often used in the same sense. It depends on what context one is speaking.
Here is your second misuse of the word....
-
Anything else doc?
-
Funny you should ask Slash!....yes it continues...almost as if he believes that he is conjugating the verb "lose" properly over and over again...
.......
adjective form is proper vs using the implied form as an adjective.
Most people think that the proper phrase would be "pyrrhic victory". This type of victory describes
a victory that comes with great or unacceptable losses. Such as loosing all of your soldiers or in
law spending great amounts of money and using up resources.
In law the term empiric is used due to its roots being knowledge, right and wrong. Further, it is in
fact, used to describe a civil legal battle where large amounts of money were spent to win but
without significant or even no return for the win and in criminal law where a lengthy trial resulted in
no serious punishment to the defendant.
A pyrrhic victory is one where you still win but at a cost so great it becomes worthless. You do win
and may keep winning and gaining something of value but all the time you are loosing more than
you win.
An empirical victory is one where you win (with or without great loss of something valuable) but did
not gain anything of value for it. One only gets to say "i was right". The win gained nothing,
accomplished no goal, had no effect positive or negative. It achieved absolutely nothing. But the act
of winning did not result in a great loss of anything to you. This is quite different from a pyrrhic
victory.
Who's your daddy now???
Here you are misusing it twice in one post.... :huh Perhaps next time you accuse me of inattentiveness you should review your own posts...
-
It seems that in this dictionary fight, Agent has the more maneuverable dictionary, and Falcon has the more high powered dictionary.
-
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/500px-Grammar_Nazi_Icon_Textsvg.png)
Who will win this battle?
-
:D Do you have a picture?
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/demon2.JPG)
-
lol
tihs is smoe amwose sftuf, :rofl
-
Agent and Falcon, since you guys know so much about the English language, I dare you guys to proof read this paragraph:
Glaskdfjw, oiwjefow aofijl asjf aj o;g ;lk jjai iew j aiowje j; vdkvl ;asd; . lkjwef jio aoj ad a ggl; wek joigop gpa tphhg eowp p ckz a/ coi yll wop ett nga og. Howoepof foeihf hw hwhpp dioc;lkaopoiq/. ocpo lksocuot wia t oi woioitjlkc ioijw ;lcco. wooitu chop aa p hwpa ahwotqeq d ca. lc[a.
:D
-
Falconwing,
Yep, you got me...I mispealed loosser. You win.
And you are definitley not listenning to my arguement. You clossed your eyess and rifuse to see the realety.
I now fli striat and let falconwing shuot me dwn.....he wins....wait for it...wait....
AN EMPERICAL VICTORY.
-
More cars please... :uhoh
I have an emperic urge of seeing pyrrhically hysterically amounts of cars right now.. :confused:
-
(http://www.klue.com.my/assets/0003/6408/grammar-nazi-main_std.jpg)
-
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/demon2.JPG)
bwahahahaha, gold star for awesome scary face.
-
(http://www.klue.com.my/assets/0003/6408/grammar-nazi-main_std.jpg)
He did deserve the Oscar. He made the entire movie.
-
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/demon2.JPG)
Amazing!!! In all my years of being in online communities, you are the first person that actually looks the way I imagined them to look. :D
-
More cars please... :uhoh
I have an emperic urge of seeing pyrrhically hysterically amounts of cars right now.. :confused:
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8263/moneyw.jpg)
Mine :devil
wrongway
-
poor chevy. Must cringe at the site of speed bumps.
Low riders were cool like 15 (and 40) years ago. nice rims tho.. Have a system in there?
-
(http://www.klue.com.my/assets/0003/6408/grammar-nazi-main_std.jpg)
:rofl
-
vrooooommmm vrooommmm
(http://dasmuppets.com/agent360/images/gremlin.jpg)
(http://dasmuppets.com/agent360/images/truckster.jpg)
(http://dasmuppets.com/agent360/images/redneckcartank.jpg)
(http://dasmuppets.com/agent360/images/hurse.jpg)
-
The Wagon Queen Family Truckster!!
-
Hello.
-
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8263/moneyw.jpg)
Mine :devil
wrongway
Nice :aok
-
I've done that before, quite a few times actually. Get bored waiting for someone who wouldn't commit, but wouldn't go away either. Auger in and move on.
Once you get to a certain level of "skill" I think the game is tough to enjoy. I didn't enjoy flying 'competitive' planes because it was to easy to get kills, but I didn't enjoy flying the crappy planes because you get timid bumbletwittles in uber-planes that can't fight but also won't go away.
Of course, from their perspective it is a gut-wrenching, nerve-wracking, awe-inspiring and amazing fight. Much like the 8v1 can be enjoyable to some people, I guess.
I'd dearly love to be able to come back and enjoy the game, but every time I come back I get disgusted again after a weekend of the same crap that I got tired of in the first place.
Maybe one day :)...
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Mine's down to its last thread.
:salute 11
-
The Wagon Queen Family Truckster!!
... in metallic pea.
You think you hate it now? Wait until you drive it.