Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TnDep on July 22, 2010, 07:38:14 PM
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It's so bad I'm done flying until it's fixed - can't fly aggressive it goes into a snap roll instantly
hate the sound system to can't even hear bullets hitting my plane
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I can hear the bullets hit my plane and I stall the same as I did before the update. As far as I have read about the update no planes FM were worked on.
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can't fly aggressive it goes into a snap roll instantly
First thing I noticed when flying the A8 after the update.
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happened to me a few times also..and happened to the guy I was fighting..
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Hmmmm.
I've been complaining to friends I fly with about stalling in a 152 alot lately.
Come to think of it its only been since the est versions.
I thought it was only just me so I never bothered mentioning it
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Nothing in the flight models of any aircraft was adjusted. You guys need to begin some sort of testing regime before you clog the boards with these posts after every update.
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Im sorry but The stall I got into WAY!!! IN THE AIR just wouldnt allow me to pull out of it..This has not happened to me like this in 3 years of playing..
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I stalled in a Spit 16 lol. Didn't know that was possible.
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Nothing in the flight models of any aircraft was adjusted. You guys need to begin some sort of testing regime before you clog the boards with these posts after every update.
Maybe you need to get your facts straight before you give suggestions. And I don't need your permission to start a topic thanks
Alot of people are having stall problems and the stick settings are the same. Regardless if no plane settings were touched in this update somethings wrong and letting HTC know that theres a problem as I done a bug report on this issue. I made this one to discuss with other AH players and to see if they've found a correction or what the problem is.
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yea spikes I was in a spit9..oh and just so we can possibly find the issue,I fly with stall limiter off..
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Nothing in the flight models of any aircraft was adjusted. You guys need to begin some sort of testing regime before you clog the boards with these posts after every update.
:huh
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yea spikes I was in a spit9..oh and just so we can possibly find the issue,I fly with stall limiter off..
I also fly with stall limiter off and have done so for the past 14 months or so after my first 2 diaper months I took them off so don't think thats it before I checked and it's still off right now as before
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Stall model is identical, whats different is your cues. You have no "seat of the pants" sensation so it all is via sounds. The change in sound pack is effecting you. Film it and look at the numbers and you'll see its all the same....it just sounds different so your "off"...
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I have flown the niki almost exclusively since I began playing about 2 years ago...I haven't stalled like I stalled tonight in over a year. I have changed no settings and fly the same plane I've always flown-something is different.
Check my post count-I rarely post here, but this has got me scratching my head- I am having a hard time flying the way I used to.
addendum: I also fly with stall limiter off
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I didn't notice any differences.
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Funny how some people in AH resort to blaming HTC as an excuse to explain away their suckage. I flew several aircraft today, and all feel the same to me, just as they were on the previous versions.
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Maybe you need to get your facts straight before you give suggestions. And I don't need your permission to start a topic thanks
Alot of people are having stall problems and the stick settings are the same. Regardless if no plane settings were touched in this update somethings wrong and letting HTC know that theres a problem as I done a bug report on this issue. I made this one to discuss with other AH players and to see if they've found a correction or what the problem is.
Stoney is right...if you feel there is a problem with the flight model due to the update you should provide some data to back up your claims. "I didn't stall yesterday like this but now I am" is hardly any proof that there might be an issue.
ack-ack
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Maybe you need to get your facts straight before you give suggestions. And I don't need your permission to start a topic thanks
Alot of people are having stall problems and the stick settings are the same. Regardless if no plane settings were touched in this update somethings wrong and letting HTC know that theres a problem as I done a bug report on this issue. I made this one to discuss with other AH players and to see if they've found a correction or what the problem is.
Look TnDep, you have absolutely no data at all to form a hypothesis upon. I'm talking scientific method here. Every time we get an update that has no mention of flight model changes, folks come onto the boards and start screaming about how the [insert your favorite ride here] got some sort of ninja-stealth nerf from HTC. Even if they did, you guys wouldn't even have the data from the previous flight model to make a comparison because you never do any testing. What was the stall angle of attack of your favorite ride yesterday compared to today? You don't know, so you've formed an opinion based on what? Nothing. Its really that simple.
HTC will tell you when they make a change. The most substantial change since I've been playing was the changes to the way thrust was modeled after the WWI update. That change got almost no chatter on the boards at all. Ironic me thinks...
Regardless, you surely have the right to start these threads, just as much as I have the right to come in here and tell you guys that you're barking up the wrong tree.
Finally, if I'm wrong and Skuzzy or Pyro or Dale come in here and say that they had some sort of bug that changed the way the [insert complex aerodynamic control surface characteristic of your choice] was deflecting, I'll come back to this thread and apologize to all of you
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I've only flown the one plane (F4U-1A) but I could detect no difference in the flight model/handling.
Can you confirm that you are hearing the stall warning over the other sounds? If you are used to judging by the sound (and what else can you judge by???), but the sound is now inaudible/overpowered by other sounds, then I imagine you'd feel as though the plane were behaving very differently.
Can you try the planes offline away from the field and see if you hear the stall buzzer/buffeting sounds?
Are you using FF - there was a change in how that's implemented at the stall. If you are used to keying off of the FF, you might find that to be a part of the issue too.
<S>
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Look TnDep, you have absolutely no data at all to form a hypothesis upon. I'm talking scientific method here. Every time we get an update that has no mention of flight model changes, folks come onto the boards and start screaming about how the [insert your favorite ride here] got some sort of ninja-stealth nerf from HTC. Even if they did, you guys wouldn't even have the data from the previous flight model to make a comparison because you never do any testing. What was the stall angle of attack of your favorite ride yesterday compared to today? You don't know, so you've formed an opinion based on what? Nothing. Its really that simple.
HTC will tell you when they make a change. The most substantial change since I've been playing was the changes to the way thrust was modeled after the WWI update. That change got almost no chatter on the boards at all. Ironic me thinks...
Regardless, you surely have the right to start these threads, just as much as I have the right to come in here and tell you guys that you're barking up the wrong tree.
Finally, if I'm wrong and Skuzzy or Pyro or Dale come in here and say that they had some sort of bug that changed the way the [insert complex aerodynamic control surface characteristic of your choice] was deflecting, I'll come back to this thread and apologize to all of you
QFT :aok :aok :aok
Tango
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Stall model is identical, whats different is your cues. You have no "seat of the pants" sensation so it all is via sounds. The change in sound pack is effecting you. Film it and look at the numbers and you'll see its all the same....it just sounds different so your "off"...
As always I could be wrong but I think Snaphook nailed it already.
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Yes, we're all wrong, suck and aren't scientific enough. It says so in this thread.
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Yes, I've had the same probs with stalls and absolutely attribute it to aural cues alone, I've tried a few different combinations and can't hear approach to stall, gunfire hits or vox as well as before. I think one could make the case that this is a more realistic sound mix but given the lack of tactile involvement on a pc game, a little leeway may be in order :pray
PS: The new terrain objects are fab! :rock
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I've noticed almost no stall change.
1 weird thing though.
I managed to snap roll a C-47 while flying over and checking out the town.
With full flaps and moving about the speed of smell, this thing did a backflip/corkscrew/barrel roll looking thing in an about a 10 foot space.
Just a weird stall thing.
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Stall model is identical, whats different is your cues. You have no "seat of the pants" sensation so it all is via sounds. The change in sound pack is effecting you. Film it and look at the numbers and you'll see its all the same....it just sounds different so your "off"...
This is most likely the cause of the problem.
U guys that are having trouble, did u adjust ur individual sounds prior to the update?
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Nothing in the flight models of any aircraft was adjusted. You guys need to begin some sort of testing regime before you clog the boards with these posts after every update.
Simply because the front page doesn't mention a change in the flight model, doesn't mean something was accidentally tweaked or something was tweaked and they forgot to put it back. You need to begin some sort of self-help regime, call it "think before you post", before you clog the boards with more ignorant posts such as this.
Sorry if that sounded harsh, I needed to point it out.
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got in a nice turn fight with a spit, if it was gunna stall it would have happened in that fight. game on.
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I fly the 190 D all of the time. After downloading the new version and flying any slight stick movement causes buffeting like crazy.. Tried it in other planes, same problem. Got speed up tp 300 mph pulled on stick got buffeting stall and lose control.. Wasnt happening yesterday or the days and weeks before.. Must be a coincidence..
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How many of you having the stall problems use CH sticks?
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To Sky25,
If you had sound effect volume low before, then now it is more high so that you hear stall buffet that you did not hear before.
:salute
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How many of you having the stall problems use CH sticks?
:airplane: and how many didn't recalibrate and reset dead zone and dampening? I see no difference in stall
characteristics at all. :headscratch:
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Not only the stall prob with the 190 and A6m...but my old MS FFB2 has lost its "sensible" feedback characteristics(in use for 5 years now, 2 in AHII). Same happend for other squaddies using the same stick. Even if the settings in game didn't change, the force feedback HAS changed with the update. Trying to fix it with the gamecontroller settings in Windows, no matter what is clicked, AH allows only full force back to center or zero force to center.
Ain't fun flying with it because it changed a lot!
The sound, well personally i do not like it at all, i hear planes at 800yards but not bullets hitting me, i hear planes exploding 2k away, flying in formation makes com impossible, the air raid siren in twr makes me think of how to shoot it...imo the sound needs a serious workout or a step back.
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For me the new sound system from the beginning has sounded GREAT i can hear the other planes engines from a good amt of distance even with my engine on. If a plane is near me especially if they are close you can actually hear the guns fire on their plane, and even close flybys sound alot more defined or i guess louder or something. All of these things vastly increase the immersion factor of this game, Over all the amount of sounds are excellent with one exception i cant lower the volume of the stall horn, the air raid siren and other annoying sounds....otherwise everything is perfect. Even lowering the engine volume is helpful since I usually watch tv while i play. Even when im at like 10000+ft i can sometimes hear the either the explosions of large bombs exploding or something like that even when at that high alt. It just adds to the sense that their is a battle going on around me. Their were two opposing cv units next to some base airfield and alot of the guns were being fired and the big guns i could hear exploding.
The effect of the trails for those cvs guns are awesome
Although for those with problems...still, i can sympathize. Maybe it would be best to inform htc of your exact system specs, perhaps they can work from those Im no expert but i would assume its due to the difference between all the different computers the users use.
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Stall model is identical, whats different is your cues. You have no "seat of the pants" sensation so it all is via sounds. The change in sound pack is effecting you. Film it and look at the numbers and you'll see its all the same....it just sounds different so your "off"...
Very true! I rely on the stall warning and buffet to adjust how hard I'm pulling. (I experienced the same problem when people yak on VOX about something completely irrelevant for minutes on end....usually when I'm in the middle of a knife fight)
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Simply because the front page doesn't mention a change in the flight model, doesn't mean something was accidentally tweaked or something was tweaked and they forgot to put it back. You need to begin some sort of self-help regime, call it "think before you post", before you clog the boards with more ignorant posts such as this.
Sorry if that sounded harsh, I needed to point it out.
As the powers the be state after every new version or patch where people start to whine that "the flight model has changed", if they changed anything, they tell us.
If they took something out or put something in, they tell us.
No hank panky here.
wrongway
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Very true! I rely on the stall warning and buffet to adjust how hard I'm pulling. (I experienced the same problem when people yak on VOX about something completely irrelevant for minutes on end....usually when I'm in the middle of a knife fight)
That makes sense to me. I will need to learn it all over gain as far as the sound goes. I do not like the new sound package at all...Everything else is different..
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<-------my planes are always falling outta the sky.
my car stalled on the 405 once, not so good.
think the sound is throwing me off a bit,
i also can not access the individual game sounds to shut off that annoying field alarm.
froger
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I didn't notice any differences.
the RV8 was flying quite well i thought
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How many of you having the stall problems use CH sticks?
Tossed my P-38 around with a couple of Zekes on the deck and never had any issues like the OP described.
ack-ack
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the RV8 was flying quite well i thought
Yeah, I'd say she held together pretty well.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/rv8.jpg)
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:rofl
shame about the two idiots flying her
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Well I can say my trusty B25 handled like a brick as always, no noticeable changes here. :D
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Could your stalling issues be a result of the sound changes? I know I fly by sound as much as anything else. After the update, before this one, when the wind sound was taken away, seemed to me that everything flew like a brick. Once they fixed the wind sound issue and I adjusted some sounds on my end, everything was back to its old self again. :salute
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Tossed my P-38 around with a couple of Zekes on the deck and never had any issues like the OP described.
ack-ack
ummm bombers are not supposed to turn with fighter planes. :rolleyes:
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Simply because the front page doesn't mention a change in the flight model, doesn't mean something was accidentally tweaked or something was tweaked and they forgot to put it back. You need to begin some sort of self-help regime, call it "think before you post", before you clog the boards with more ignorant posts such as this.
Sorry if that sounded harsh, I needed to point it out.
Send someone at HTC a PM or email and ask if the flight model changed. If it did, as I said before, I'll apologize. If it didn't, perhaps you owe me one.
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Stall model is identical, whats different is your cues. You have no "seat of the pants" sensation so it all is via sounds. The change in sound pack is effecting you. Film it and look at the numbers and you'll see its all the same....it just sounds different so your "off"...
Is humble ever wrong? :) Im not having any stall problems in game, if anything Im not flying as hard as I normally do.
TnDep,
Acouple of the guys were right, you didnt even give a plane it was happening in. Look back at some older films then see if you can do similar moves in the new update and post them.
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I didn't notice any differences.
Ditto.
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How many of you having the stall problems use CH sticks?
I use a CH Fighterstick. I have ZERO problems.
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It was happening in the entire plane set. Could it be the sound, yes it could. I can't hear bullets hitting my plane, stall horn, flaps - I can hear my engine and wind and external planes d800.
I flew before with my engine at 0 and stall horn ect around 25 so hearing your planes edge could be the difference here but I stalled so many times last night I logged off.
I stalled in ki-84, 109k4, f4u1a for myself many times in each plane
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Look TnDep, you have absolutely no data at all to form a hypothesis upon. I'm talking scientific method here. Every time we get an update that has no mention of flight model changes, folks come onto the boards and start screaming about how the [insert your favorite ride here] got some sort of ninja-stealth nerf from HTC. Even if they did, you guys wouldn't even have the data from the previous flight model to make a comparison because you never do any testing. What was the stall angle of attack of your favorite ride yesterday compared to today? You don't know, so you've formed an opinion based on what? Nothing. Its really that simple.
HTC will tell you when they make a change. The most substantial change since I've been playing was the changes to the way thrust was modeled after the WWI update. That change got almost no chatter on the boards at all. Ironic me thinks...
Regardless, you surely have the right to start these threads, just as much as I have the right to come in here and tell you guys that you're barking up the wrong tree.
Finally, if I'm wrong and Skuzzy or Pyro or Dale come in here and say that they had some sort of bug that changed the way the [insert complex aerodynamic control surface characteristic of your choice] was deflecting, I'll come back to this thread and apologize to all of you
I might not have no solid data or formulated a video synopsis I do however have 1000's of duels and flight hours underneath my belt which is considered experience data.
Thanks for all the responses I believe it could be the sound where I can't hear the stall horn more then likely is.
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did not notice anything peculiar concerning stall characteristics, though Ive always thought that stall margins were very generous thus contributing to care free handling in most of the planes. (no data to back it up so dont flame me just a feeling)
btw new sound is excellent. Enjoy Doppler effect the most and i love to hear engines and guns as the other planes passing by or start to shoot at me
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I do however have 1000's of duels and flight hours underneath my belt
so what you are saying is you are not a complete noob?
:neener:
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Well I have not yet done any extensive testing, but it does seem to depart easier.
That is not to say its wrong, I always suspected low speed handling on most planes was too easy.
But I've had unexpected departures in planes as stable as TBM, and B25h that I really felt should not have departed.
However HTC has always in the past notified via the readme for FM changes.
The only thing I can think of is something that they did not expect to change FM that perhaps might have.
Otherwise we'd of known about it.
Until its proven one way or the other all we can do for now is adjust.
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Stall model is identical, whats different is your cues. You have no "seat of the pants" sensation so it all is via sounds. The change in sound pack is effecting you. Film it and look at the numbers and you'll see its all the same....it just sounds different so your "off"...
Come to think of it ... that could very well be the problem. I was having problems hearing my stall indicator and couldn't hear my flaps at all.
Flying my precious FM2 and F6-F felt like I had a couple of 1000 pounders strapped on. I honestly had to check a couple of times after a fight to make sure that I didn't have any bombs on board.
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As mentioned, I believe it's the sound affecting the flying.
I noticed it with my first couple of flights, then I adjusted the levels of several of the sound files and I was flying fine. I had to adjust the airraid, explosions, ship guns, and a couple of other sounds because they were way too loud.
For my system, I also had to select discreet 8.1 in order to get rid of a slight lag between any stick or throttle button and the associated sound, as that really was throwing me off.
mir
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True it could be the sounds that I need to get use to.
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Enjoy Doppler effect the most and i love to hear engines and guns as the other planes passing by or start to shoot at me
This is what confuses me. If you were actually sitting in the cockpit of an F6-F with engine roaring at WEP could you actually hear the engine of a passing plane, as well as his guns, that loud and clear ?
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In my case, I have a G940 (Force Feedback). The patch changing the feedback from initiating during the HORN vice the Buffeting is what caused me to stall/snap roll easier with the release of the patch. I was so used to flying the plane by feel, and a simple change in the force feedback characteristics of the game has me all screwed up....
Could it be that you have a similar issue?
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CH Fighter Stick here ... no force-feedback.
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Grab a plane you have good film on (one where you stalled a wingtip on purpose in a knife fight for example) and then grab the same plane and wring it out...you'll see the same departure points. Batty and I were dogfighting mossie vs A-20 in the TA a bit last night. 1st pass I busted the poor bird...sound ques were all wrong. In the following fights I was constantly stalling a wingtip while I resorted my "feel". After 10 min or so it was all back to normal...
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Problem with stalling is the sounds (they sound different, so we dont use the same clues as before), same thing happened last big update and the one before. People kept complaining that they were stalling too easy. I lost about 5 spit8 due to stalls last night. It will be better in a couple of days.
semp
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First we in no way changed the models, but is always possible a bug crept in, but I also did not touch ANY flight sim coad so it would have to be a very very very strange thing for that to be the problem. Couple that with the fact some people are not noticing any change I would bet a lot of money that isn't the issue you are feeling.
So that leaves us with 2 possibility.
Bug in JS scalling code. I did touch some of the joy stick Initialization code, (this turned out to be the DirectX bug that was causing the windowing change problems) but I just went and tested the scaling piece and all is correct.
So I am fairly sure that it is the stall horn that is tripping people up. Are the people who are noticing a big different running a custom stall horn?
HiTech
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Force feedback is screwed
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At first flight, it seems that spit 16 behaved as a f4ux!
After more time elapsed all seemed normal.
Perhaps new sounds require new perception.
:salute
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At first flight, it seems that spit 16 behaved as a f4ux!
After more time elapsed all seemed normal.
Perhaps new sounds require new perception.
:salute
It doesn't take Hercule Poirot to see the non force feedback stick users are not having a problem. Shouldn't really be an area to be messed with, you might as well change the scaling it will have the same effect to someone whos stick pull is used to certain FF settings. It would be like instantly changing all the CH users to a heavier/lighter spring. People will readjust their muscles to the new pull/pressure given time, but why should they have to?
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It doesn't take Hercule Poirot to see the non force feedback stick users are not having a problem. Shouldn't really be an area to be messed with, you might as well change the scaling it will have the same effect to someone whos stick pull is used to certain FF settings. It would be like instantly changing all the CH users to a heavier/lighter spring. People will readjust their muscles to the new pull/pressure given time, but why should they have to?
We didn't mess with it.
Only thing changed was where the stall buffet happens.
HiTech
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We didn't mess with it.
Only thing changed was where the stall buffet happens.
HiTech
Then it's all perception. I didn't notice anything strange either but I usually try not to turn-n-burn much in Fw aircraft. :D
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We didn't mess with it.
Only thing changed was where the stall buffet happens.
HiTech
stall buffet?? and the new towns bases absolutely murdered my FR in this update
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Change in the joystick coad might well have done it, will recalibrate and recheck sliders see if that makes a difference.
TY Hitech, much appreciated. <S>
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I might not have no solid data or formulated a video synopsis I do however have 1000's of duels and flight hours underneath my belt which is considered experience data.
Experience isn't relevant if you're trying to prove something changed in the flight model. Experience is arbitrary. Data is quantitative and tactile.
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So I am fairly sure that it is the stall horn that is tripping people up. Are the people who are noticing a big different running a custom stall horn?
HiTech
mine was default on everything
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I am running a custom soundpack...and I dont think I recall hearing a stall buffet when it happened.I have a new ch fighterstick,will recalibrate it today also..I am inclined to think that humble is on the right track with his first statement..
But I must say that Stoney,you did go off a bit for no reason..I dont think anyone was freaking out about the stall issue,and I didnt see anyone throwing stones at HTC about it....Just someone asking a question..Maybe you just got done reading about how everyone is upset about the sounds and let how you felt be sounded off in here..
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We didn't mess with it.
Only thing changed was where the stall buffet happens.
HiTech
Oh a lot more has changed than that and I'm not the only one...
Not only the stall prob with the 190 and A6m...but my old MS FFB2 has lost its "sensible" feedback characteristics(in use for 5 years now, 2 in AHII). Same happend for other squaddies using the same stick. Even if the settings in game didn't change, the force feedback HAS changed with the update. Trying to fix it with the gamecontroller settings in Windows, no matter what is clicked, AH allows only full force back to center or zero force to center.
Ain't fun flying with it because it changed a lot!
The sound, well personally i do not like it at all, i hear planes at 800yards but not bullets hitting me, i hear planes exploding 2k away, flying in formation makes com impossible, the air raid siren in twr makes me think of how to shoot it...imo the sound needs a serious workout or a step back.
You can disable and then re enable Force Feedback in flight to get rid of the full force effect but it is still not the same as the old settings, and if you reup it will return to full strength force settings. Also adjusting the trim setting produces strange results, I'm usually at 25 but reducing or increasing the trim will not return consistent results and the pull strength and therefore the scaling has been affected.
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Guys
I am having exactly the same problem as the original poster, but I know what is causing it.
The only types of sensory feedback we get flying in the game are visual, aural, and tactile. Even those without force feedback, still get a response from the tension on the springs.
So that's three types of feedback, but it is more complicated than that, because each of those interact and combine with the others and we take our cues from the many permutations of all three, that we learn from experience.
The catch is everyone does it differently, some people depend on Aural feedback more than others, some are more visual, yet others more tactile. For example, some people can't live without force feedback, I hate it. Real pilots depend much more on physical feedback. Personally I depend a lot more on aural feedback in a game, and the new sound system has had a dramatic effect on my flying.
Many of us underestimate the importance of aural feedback and the impact this might have. It has an effect on sound quality and increased potential futher improvements to the game. But few of us were expecting the much more immediate impact it would have on our flying.
What's the answer?
That depends.... If nothing else changes, there are two choices. Firstly, you can start flying again, hard and often, and relearn the sensory cues. For those who depend heavily on the Aural feedback, it will be tough, and for those more dependant on the visual and tactile cues, they may not even notice any difference. Secondly, you could start downloading the various sound packs and use sound editors to recreate the sounds as you previously had them.
For my part, I've been using a combination of both and after a few hours (that I'll never get back) I'm already beginning to see that happy place on the horizon... I predict a few more days of tweaking and it will be as though nothing happened. I would compare this to the way your heart sinks after you lose all your game settings. You may never feel as though your stick and view settings were as good as they were, but it doesn't take you that long to get pretty darn close.
Hope that helps...
Badboy
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Guys
I am having exactly the same problem as the original poster, but I know what is causing it.
The only types of sensory feedback we get flying in the game are visual, aural, and tactile. Even those without force feedback, still get a response from the tension on the springs.
So that's three types of feedback, but it is more complicated than that, because each of those interact and combine with the others and we take our cues from the many permutations of all three, that we learn from experience.
The catch is everyone does it differently, some people depend on Aural feedback more than others, some are more visual, yet others more tactile. For example, some people can't live without force feedback, I hate it. Real pilots depend much more on physical feedback. Personally I depend a lot more on aural feedback in a game, and the new sound system has had a dramatic effect on my flying.
Many of us underestimate the importance of aural feedback and the impact this might have. It has an effect on sound quality and increased potential futher improvements to the game. But few of us were expecting the much more immediate impact it would have on our flying.
What's the answer?
That depends.... If nothing else changes, there are two choices. Firstly, you can start flying again, hard and often, and relearn the sensory cues. For those who depend heavily on the Aural feedback, it will be tough, and for those more dependant on the visual and tactile cues, they may not even notice any difference. Secondly, you could start downloading the various sound packs and use sound editors to recreate the sounds as you previously had them.
For my part, I've been using a combination of both and after a few hours (that I'll never get back) I'm already beginning to see that happy place on the horizon... I predict a few more days of tweaking and it will be as though nothing happened. I would compare this to the way your heart sinks after you lose all your game settings. You may never feel as though your stick and view settings were as good as they were, but it doesn't take you that long to get pretty darn close.
Hope that helps...
Badboy
Was flying my Dora in offline last night and I was thinking the same thing because I was having a bit more of a difficult time flying in it, I thought maybe the model was changed a little but figgured I really needed to just get used to the new audio cues/feel. I've noticed a few other 190/152 model-specific complaints in this thread though, so that has me a little uneasy and wondering if something did creep into the 190 models. I wouldn't put it's priority infront of eating a good sandwitch or watching a good TV show this comming week (because chances are everything is working as intended), but if someone at HTCs could find a couple minutes to just peek inside the 190 models I'd really apreciate it.
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I dont think anyone was freaking out about the stall issue,and I didnt see anyone throwing stones at HTC about it....Just someone asking a question..Maybe you just got done reading about how everyone is upset about the sounds and let how you felt be sounded off in here..
No, what frustrated me was the guy posting two separate threads about the same issue, where both times he said something to the effect of "I'm not flying again until they fix it..." when there was nothing to fix. Basically we was simply fishing for someone to validate his perception of the problem. A question would have been worded like "I'm having problems with my aircraft stalling since the update. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing?"
Abrupt? Direct? Certainly I was. Mostly because some of these folks don't read the patch notes before coming in here and squeaking about HTC screwing up their gaming experience.
Last, I'm exasperated by a rash of accusations towards HTC that there are aerodynamic errors in the flight model when the accusers have (1) no data whatsoever to back up there charges and (2) don't really have an open mind to learn. Really, all they want to do is squeak about why their favorite plane doesn't fly the way it was described in Aces of the Luftwaffe, or in one of Eric Brown's reports/books. So, sorry for getting frustrated, but I'm not the only one.
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I might not have no solid data or formulated a video synopsis I do however have 1000's of duels and flight hours underneath my belt which is considered experience data.
Thanks for all the responses I believe it could be the sound where I can't hear the stall horn more then likely is.
Dang, someones trying to get better :aok
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No, what frustrated me was the guy posting two separate threads about the same issue, where both times he said something to the effect of "I'm not flying again until they fix it..." when there was nothing to fix. Basically we was simply fishing for someone to validate his perception of the problem. A question would have been worded like "I'm having problems with my aircraft stalling since the update. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing?"
Abrupt? Direct? Certainly I was. Mostly because some of these folks don't read the patch notes before coming in here and squeaking about HTC screwing up their gaming experience.
Last, I'm exasperated by a rash of accusations towards HTC that there are aerodynamic errors in the flight model when the accusers have (1) no data whatsoever to back up there charges and (2) don't really have an open mind to learn. Really, all they want to do is squeak about why their favorite plane doesn't fly the way it was described in Aces of the Luftwaffe, or in one of Eric Brown's reports/books. So, sorry for getting frustrated, but I'm not the only one.
Probabley as exasperated as I am about the plane I enjoy flying the most in this game not "feeling" quite the way it did just a couple days ago... but just a hunch. Things in the game did change besides flight models, and I am not questioning anyone saying "nothing in the model has or was supposed to of changed". But when I have this little fear nipping away in the back of my brain that something in the model might of changed, and others on this board have expressed the same opinion on the same or similar models of the same plane, then I begin to actualy start questioning if the model, specificaly the 190s, did infact change a little.
If the game and it's atmosphere is really getting to you, go grab the webber and the tent and hit the lake for the weekend.
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No, what frustrated me was the guy posting two separate threads about the same issue, where both times he said something to the effect of "I'm not flying again until they fix it..." when there was nothing to fix. Basically we was simply fishing for someone to validate his perception of the problem. A question would have been worded like "I'm having problems with my aircraft stalling since the update. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing?"
Abrupt? Direct? Certainly I was. Mostly because some of these folks don't read the patch notes before coming in here and squeaking about HTC screwing up their gaming experience.
Last, I'm exasperated by a rash of accusations towards HTC that there are aerodynamic errors in the flight model when the accusers have (1) no data whatsoever to back up there charges and (2) don't really have an open mind to learn. Really, all they want to do is squeak about why their favorite plane doesn't fly the way it was described in Aces of the Luftwaffe, or in one of Eric Brown's reports/books. So, sorry for getting frustrated, but I'm not the only one.
Dr.Stoney your god's greatest gift to this world. Thanks for pointing out my squeakyness and until I can fix or htc finds the problem I'm not flying again :aok
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Dang, someones trying to get better :aok
Never ending battle my friend :salute
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How many other people are haveing stall issues since new update?
me.
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Last, I'm exasperated by a rash of accusations towards HTC.......etc.
Well I don't mean to exasperate you further...but.... :noid
I'm accusing HTC of doing an excellent job maintaining and improving an already great game (that I admittedly suck at), and if that doesn't continue, I will quit (and not just because I suck). :P
:rofl
Seriously tho, I noticed something different about the handling of the planes I flew lastnight, and just figured no big deal, I was happy to fly just the same. But, after reading some of the well reasoned responses (while flying past the squeakier ones), I now think I probably had an aural issue more than anything. I spent a load of time adjusting sounds before I took off to check out the new base and town layouts so I could hear VOX without the engine sounds making it difficult. It may have had a side affect in my (unrealized) inclusion of audio information in my (rather pathetic) flying.
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Everything seems fine to me, as a matter of fact I was thinking it was easier to fly the edge of the stall last night.
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I had no stall problems tonight whatsoever everything appears to be back in order. Didn't change anything although I did turn up the stall horn alittle. I have seen a couple more things that I will put in the bug report folder but the stalls are back to zero which is good.
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I had a couple of wild departures in an FM2 last night and my immediate thought was something in the flight model changed; however, this evening I worked with the sound system and brought the own aircraft sounds back up and strangely enough had no problems. I think that as others have suggested, we learn to compensate for the lack of that "seat of the pants" feeling in computer sims by relying quite a bit on secondary indicators such as sound more than we realize. We are probably not recognizing that a cue we relied on (perhaps subconsciously) is gone and therefore we lose SA and are surprised by departures that "shouldn't" be happening. Just my opinion but tonight the FM2 seemed just fine.
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You know I've been doin rather good this tour till this patch my score has stayed at 300 or so but right after I got the new update and reinstalled the game my first dogfight I instantly notice something a little....off I usually turn fight in my f4f at around 80mph but this last I wouldn't able to get down to 100 without stallin :huh :headscratch:
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iI`m stalling
pulling out and trying to survive
I`m sure it`s changed
but so has the game
I`ll make the best of it but it has changed
still love the update...will try to survive the sudden spin.....
wish i did not have to
but all is cool
Jimmy
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No stall issues whatsoever in the 3 or 4 planes I fly.
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iI`m stalling
pulling out and trying to survive
I`m sure it`s changed
but so has the game
I`ll make the best of it but it has changed
still love the update...will try to survive the sudden spin.....
wish i did not have to
but all is cool
Jimmy
Jimmy I had the same problem just turn up your engine sounds which also turns up your stall horn alittle- thats what straighten me out. Wish I didnt have to hear the engine though got use to it at 0
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Wish I didnt have to hear the engine though got use to it at 0
In my opinion, flying with 0 engine sound is incredibly gamey, far more gamey than vulching or cherry picking. So I see the change as a good thing.
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In my opinion, flying with 0 engine sound is incredibly gamey, far more gamey than vulching or cherry picking. So I see the change as a good thing.
+1
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In my opinion, flying with 0 engine sound is incredibly gamey, far more gamey than vulching or cherry picking. So I see the change as a good thing.
I agree, about a year an a half ago I changed my sound files to represent what you'd actually hear in a WW2 plane. So these sound changes have had very little impact for me, but I do see a few more planes flopping around then usual.
The reality is only a few big planes had stall horns if any (only exception I know of is the stall light on the late F4U's), and it's near impossible to hear flaps or gear over the engine. You "feel" them way more than you could hear them anyway, so the game having them very low makes up for the lack of feel in my opinion.
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In my case the update reset my stick scaling settings; first time that's ever happened. That could cause the plane to feel different and perhaps stall easier? Easy to set back (well, would have been if I could remember what they looked like; senility is not pretty).
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I stalled in a Spit 16 lol. Didn't know that was possible.
Only cause you need the training wheels :)
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+ 1
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In my opinion, flying with 0 engine sound is incredibly gamey, far more gamey than vulching or cherry picking. So I see the change as a good thing.
maybe so but it helped with vox communication ect. I don't have a problem with the new version I did however liked peace and quit but I'll get use to it.
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Everyone is different! :)
But do you not find that having no engine sound made flying harder? Alot of audio clues you're losing concerning throttle work.
Where it might give an advantage in SA, surely it give an disadvantage in other aspects. Aslo surely it doesnt give the same immersion as flying round in a noisey machine?
Can you explain what it is like flying with no engine sound for you?
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sure I could hear the other planes engine very well and I flew off the sound of his engine a lot on overshoots and postion. As far as my plane is concerned I watched the speed so I knew when flaps could come out and watched the rpm for wep on/off,throttle. I could hear my flaps very well and stall horn as well. It let me fly on the edge pretty well. I don't recall how long it took me to get use to it but I've flown that way for over a year. What took so long was just hearing the eny engine and determine his speed and direction of travel could all be done just by the sound.
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In my opinion, flying with 0 engine sound is incredibly gamey, far more gamey than vulching or cherry picking. So I see the change as a good thing.
QFT
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I don't know how guys can fly without hearing the engine, but regardless this update hasn't eliminated that unfortunately.
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Like TnDep, I have not data other than many hours of practical experience to support my claim that the point of departure is much more sudden now. Perhaps it is sound related, perhaps not, but the fact is.... it is/was occurring. For me, it is happening less and less now. Primarily because "I" am adjusting.
CH Gear btw
P.S. So besides determining what I/we can and can't say politically in game, are we now telling others what they can or can't feel in game?
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Dear Bat,
Certainly using 0 engine sound as a way of having a "sixth sense" for detecting attackers is gamey IMO. That is why I always thought your engine sound and external engine sounds should be on the same slider. I never turned my engine sounds down very far, because without engine sounds I'd do things like leave the WEP plugged in when I meant to turn it off, etc.
But now, I'm sorry, the engine sounds are so oppressively loud that I either turn it down to where I can't hear many other effects or get a headache. I DON'T think having flap sounds you can hear is gamey...in a real plane you'd have a handle under your hand with which you could keep tabs on flap position. Now, if your plane has a clear flaps indicator dead center of the panel like an P-plane or German plane, makes little difference anyway. But some planes have far more subtle flaps position indicators.
EDIT: BTW Bat, I see you can STILL turn down sound effects all the way and leave external sounds all the way up for that gamey effect we were discussing...Gahhh! Frustration!
In my opinion, flying with 0 engine sound is incredibly gamey, far more gamey than vulching or cherry picking. So I see the change as a good thing.
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Oh I'm not arguing about the volume sliders, sorry, it was an offtopic hijack discussing specifically no engine sounds with Dep.
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Interesting comments about both the "stall issues" and the "0 engine sounds gaminess".
Since I have been experimenting with the internal engine sounds, so that I can be more aware of my environment, I wanted to add my two cents (or senses). :D
First, without tweaking (leaving default sounds) I almost never hear an external engine. So, ask yourself this question, is that realistic? I only have my highway experiences to relate to. The noise generated from cars mostly comes from the exhaust, located behind. At certain revs, the engine pitch does change and I can hear the cars engine. Regardless of what my car is doing, I can most certainly hear other cars in my vicinity, some more and some less.
Off topic a bit, but when I rode in California, motorcycles were allowed to split traffic lanes. During that time I had some serious Harley envy. There was never a doubt when a Harley was about to slip in behind you or was near even if it was in your blind spot. I used this audible cue to make sure the rider had room and to check to see where he was and be on the look out.
So, as loud as you think your plane engine should sound, the human ear would detect other external engine sounds. Since there is no red icon flashing on your windscreen telling you the distance of an unseen aircraft, the correct gaming aspect would be to make the sound grab your attention at the appropriate distance.
Second, as for stall issues, I changed my buffet sound to an engine sputtering sound. It doesn't sound like I am in the rinse cycle in an old washing machine, and psychologically signals loss of power. I will experiment to see whether or not I should consider making this my warning buzzer, because I believe that might be where some of the problems in recognizing audio cues in time may be the culprit.
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It's so bad I'm done flying until it's fixed - can't fly aggressive it goes into a snap roll instantly
hate the sound system to can't even hear bullets hitting my plane
I was wondering why i had issues flying and suddenly stalling. I feel so out of place that i have a tough time try to flight and the new sound system make it really difficult.
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I only have my highway experiences to relate to. The noise generated from cars mostly comes from the exhaust, located behind. At certain revs, the engine pitch does change and I can hear the cars engine. Regardless of what my car is doing, I can most certainly hear other cars in my vicinity, some more and some less.
Your car is fairly much less noisy than a ww2 aeroplane engine with direct exhaust sitting between your legs. Not to mention I hear no other traffic in my Mercedes as it is.
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You know that part of the stall where your plane shudders violently but isn't fully stalling yet? I feel as though you can't push that envelope as far, It feels like I can only push that envelope 3/4ths of what I used to it isn't a bad thing in my opinion just that is where I feel the game ever so slightly different. I rarely fly in that shudder zone though as it means your just chucking E out the window in a 39. I only used it for wild desperate shots.
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First, without tweaking (leaving default sounds) I almost never hear an external engine. So, ask yourself this question, is that realistic?
Well in my experience that is realistic. I had the opportunity to fly in formation with a C-45 while I was in a T-6 and couldn't hear the C-45 at all. We were just outboard of the left wing tip, and about 40 feet back (and slightly above).
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I think people are just noticing the buffett more now because Dale said the other day in one of his post that he lowered the buffett, meaning you hit buffett now without pulling as hard, I noticed it the A8 real quick, a slight pull now hits the stall horn and just a very small pull after that and the buffett is entered and then the plane rapidly exits.
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Stall model is identical, whats different is your cues. You have no "seat of the pants" sensation so it all is via sounds. The change in sound pack is effecting you. Film it and look at the numbers and you'll see its all the same....it just sounds different so your "off"...
This was my thought. I noticed that the sound mix is a little different because my digital out surround sound is now supported, So I'm voice through headset (chose that inthe new options, love it) with the big sub woofer thumping away. Cannon sounds and engine cruise are way more enjoyable. BUT I'm having to re-learn the audible clues that let me know flight condition. I'm hoping that's all it is anyway.
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No stall issues really, but the MS Sidewinder2 forces are all screwed up. Initially the stick is almost like a digital stick, strong force to start it moving and then it easily flips all the way. Same in both directions, which makes it feel very square instead of familiar smooth round movement on 2 axis.
When I disable the trim forces the stick goes limp, but after that enabling the trim forces does nothing :huh
Sounds volumes also seem weird, I suppose everything should be readjusted item by item by trial and error. Quite demotivating. I suppose it is better to wait for someone else to figure out some fixes. It is far from playable for me at the moment :(
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Flew the D-9 as much as I could this weekend, wish I honestly had more time to fly than I had, but se la vi. First thing I did different than earlier was take as little fuel as possible, this helped immensley of cource while becoming familiar with the new audio "cues". 190s have never been happy when heavily laden with fuel, but It "feels" they're maybe even more so now, and this is a "feel" I have a hard time comprehending a change to just because of audio cues. If anything did indeed sneak its way into the model, then it would have to relate to how unhappy a 190 is with heavy fuel, otherwise the model seems perfectly normal.
I took some notes this time while on each sortie of things non-model wise that I felt was off within the game in this update. Primary issue on each sortie that I took damage on was that the damage was unaudible short of a major structural failure, large cannon round or collision (edit: 40mms field AA rounds were unadible, 30-37mm aircaft cannon rounds though I would hear the loud "bang" of an impact on my plane). Maybe they're not loud enough, but this weekend left me questioning their existence at all in the game... as well as how potentialy wicked a hurri-I latched onto your tail can be now if you don't notice him spitwading away at your plane within the first couple of minutes.
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No stall issues really, but the MS Sidewinder2 forces are all screwed up.
Same here; MS SW FFB2 really squirrelly and sometimes slider has almost no effect (i.e. 100% is very strong while 0% is every so slightly less strong). I also noticed the "strong in the middle and weaker at the edges" which causes oscillations on my FFB2. And it's not deterministic: it doesn't always act the same for the same settings.
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Umm..not sure about others, but when I was learning to fly in an old beat up t34 two seat trainer with my dad, the thing he emphasized most was.."watch that little dial that shows your airspeed, it can alert you to when you are about to stall" . Throw the audio clues out the window. 'nuff said. :airplane:
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Umm..not sure about others, but when I was learning to fly in an old beat up t34 two seat trainer with my dad, the thing he emphasized most was.."watch that little dial that shows your airspeed, it can alert you to when you are about to stall" . Throw the audio clues out the window. 'nuff said. :airplane:
that might be so in real life but in a dogfight turning in tight you can stall at 250+ mph if your flying on the edge you need to indicator for the game
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that might be so in real life but in a dogfight turning in tight you can stall at 250+ mph if your flying on the edge you need to indicator for the game
The game does provide sufficient visual queues to alert you to an unplanned flight departure.
ack-ack
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You should just be able to tell when your plane will stall by experience.
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I don't get what other people are complaining about. There are plenty of visual and audible cues at stall on my end. The only issue I have is the diminished flap noises, as i had used them for airspeed cues while dogfighting in close, so I could keep tally on a bogie.
My crutch and I've already worked around it. meh.
I can say that I don't see anyone flopping into a stall any more often as I'm fighting them. I wish it were the case :devil.
This whole thread makes me think there were a lot of people "gaming the sounds" somehow, like those that are crying about not being able to turn off the engine noises in a GV now.....
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Umm..not sure about others, but when I was learning to fly in an old beat up t34 two seat trainer with my dad, the thing he emphasized most was.."watch that little dial that shows your airspeed, it can alert you to when you are about to stall" . Throw the audio clues out the window. 'nuff said. :airplane:
hehehe. :salute You watch the dial, I'll watch the Niki on my six as he tries to line up those four 20mm. :pray
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I don't get what other people are complaining about. There are plenty of visual and audible cues at stall on my end. The only issue I have is the diminished flap noises, as i had used them for airspeed cues while dogfighting in close, so I could keep tally on a bogie.
My crutch and I've already worked around it. meh.
I can say that I don't see anyone flopping into a stall any more often as I'm fighting them. I wish it were the case :devil.
This whole thread makes me think there were a lot of people "gaming the sounds" somehow, like those that are crying about not being able to turn off the engine noises in a GV now.....
I can say I'm not alone in the recent increase in episodes of augering my 109 in the past few days. The wind noise is not as loud and you have to check the guage to see how fast you r going. By the fime you feel it, it's too late. I used to hear it from the cockpit noise, and got used to that cue, such that I didn;t need to take my eye off the target. Now I find I need to keep checking guages. It's also preventable by re-balancing the levels, which Ranger [appoogies if it was someone other than Ranger] has already done.
The point is a valid one for many. :aok
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I don't get what other people are complaining about. There are plenty of visual and audible cues at stall on my end. The only issue I have is the diminished flap noises, as i had used them for airspeed cues while dogfighting in close, so I could keep tally on a bogie.
My crutch and I've already worked around it. meh.
I can say that I don't see anyone flopping into a stall any more often as I'm fighting them. I wish it were the case :devil.
This whole thread makes me think there were a lot of people "gaming the sounds" somehow, like those that are crying about not being able to turn off the engine noises in a GV now.....
Tune the eng.wav down in volume to about 1/3 to 1/2, and the stall and flaps up by about the same amount,and all is well while flying. Tune click1 and click0 down and the beep won't blow your eardrums out, and all is well with VOX, now that the delay's been resolved. ** (On my system at least...)
I even posted a link to a zip file that contains files that are adjusted so folks can easily do so if they don't have time, inclination or software to modify the volume levels themselves.
Since I don't GV I can't help folks out there if there are volume issues with that.
I don't mind in the slightest that the volume of my engine is "tied" to the volume of everyone else - in fact I never realized you could set them separately before, since other than a few tweaks when a particular sound was too loud I didn't mess with the sliders anyway. It's the relative volume of engine to the other sounds that (was) problematic for me - especially since to get VOX high enough to hear over the default engine level I was blowing my ears out. Secondarily, the cues I was using to fly were "missing", since the engine drowned everything out (including sanity).
Which I'm pointing out solely to make a point - it's not just people who had "played games" with the sliders that have had problems as a result of the update - for some of us, the relative volume of the sounds is just "wacky".
<S>
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I Dislike the sounds SOO much my plane is to loud and i cant tell if im gettin hit or not. ive noticed the stalls are awful i cant keep my corsair or 109 in a sustained turn :headscratch:
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stalls are because you can't hear the cue for it, plane fly's the same as before.