Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dirtdart on September 19, 2010, 08:30:48 AM
-
My suggestion to the horde troubles are the following:
1. Limit squads to one wing. The "mega squads" just snuff the life out of the map when they are on.
2. Lift the radar height. The lowering was to discourage the NOE mission. All it seems to have done is promote 30 plane attacks.
3. Reduce the lethality, ie: # of gun positions, in a town. I thought the unarmed towns were cool and a great place to GV fight.
To address counterpoints:
1. No I am not switching sides.
2. No I am not just going to fly high cap over fields and pick.
3. No I am not going to hang out in the cool new mossie.
4. No I am not leaving my squad to go join a four or five wing squad.
We have already lost guys who are long term players due to the recent shift in the game play paradigm. I end up fighting no one or ten at a time. It is getting very old. Just my thoughts, fire away.
-Crusader
-
My suggestion to the horde troubles are the following:
1. Limit squads to one wing.
How? :)
-
How? :)
Exactly.
-
Squads have a set number of billets. Either increase the billets to accomodate a few more players, or un link the squads for scoring, etc.....
-
ah, and common squad channel as well.
-
Squads have a set number of billets. Either increase the billets to accomodate a few more players, or un link the squads for scoring, etc.....
Actually is no such thing as a multi-wing squad in game in any way but the players imagination.
For example, Birds of Prey Ospreys and Birds of Prey Raptors are - as far as the game is concerned - different and unique squadrons of their own. The only thing that makes the BOP's (and other squads) a multi wing squadron is giving themselves similar names (no way to stop that) and the will of it's members to fly and fight as one force. And there is no way to prevent that.
If you remove the option of having tunable voice channels, you will hurt everyone else in the game tremendously (and multi wing squads will simply use teamspeak)
-
You can not stop lemmings from being lemmings.
-
Interesting, did not know that. I was under the impression that the individual blocks listed under squad of the same name, sme have five for example, were all linked together for scoring/comms, etc...
-
My suggestion to the horde troubles are the following:
1. Limit squads to one wing. The "mega squads" just snuff the life out of the map when they are on.
No way to do it. Even if they had totally different names they could still all join up as "sister wings"
2. Lift the radar height. The lowering was to discourage the NOE mission. All it seems to have done is promote 30 plane attacks.
and lowering it will bring back the 30 plane NOEs.
3. Reduce the lethality, ie: # of gun positions, in a town. I thought the unarmed towns were cool and a great place to GV fight.
it is easy enough to roll around town with out getting hammered by ack in a GV now, learn to hit ack with a gun and your alset. I find more trouble with IL2's hunting me in towns than GVs.
To address counterpoints:
1. No I am not switching sides.
2. No I am not just going to fly high cap over fields and pick.
3. No I am not going to hang out in the cool new mossie.
4. No I am not leaving my squad to go join a four or five wing squad.
We have already lost guys who are long term players due to the recent shift in the game play paradigm. I end up fighting no one or ten at a time. It is getting very old. Just my thoughts, fire away.
-Crusader
If your not willing to bend, why should anyone else?
The horde are a result of people playing with out skill. They need the "safety in numbers". The horde won't disappear untill people learn to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. The best way to reach this end is by having these "mega squads" train their people. I know, most will say they do have training, and some of them even do :P but until they train and then use them as trained groups they will have hordes.
Right now they use 30+ people to hit a base, and sometime they get it, sometimes not. Even if they "train" like they say they do, they run missions as a horde because they either don't trust the training they have done, or they have to admit that they really havn't trained at all. If they were a trained group they could take two bases at the same time with that many. Hitting 2 bases at the same time would force the enemy to split their defense making their attack work even better.
Until these "mega squads" can be honest with themselves and truly train, and use those trained elements as attack groups we will have skillless hordes counting on numbers to get done what skill could get done on a wider scale.
-
and lowering it will bring back the 30 plane NOEs.
Bring back? They were never gone (except a few days until everybody found out that darbar is still 500ft ;))
-
Interesting, did not know that. I was under the impression that the individual blocks listed under squad of the same name, sme have five for example, were all linked together for scoring/comms, etc...
Why is do you think they use a tuned vox chan instead of squad vox?
-
I end up fighting no one or ten at a time.
-Crusader
I have noticed this to be the norm lately too. The new town setups are much harder, but the dweebs counter with a much greater force than before instead of improving their own skills. Its been quantity over quality lately and seems to be getting worse.
The common complaint that I hear lately is that Fri, Sat and Sun has been an all you can eat buffet in order to get the map reset. Im not pickin on any side because all do it. Everyone wants to attack undefended targets on the map in fear of being in the air and getting shot down, or its too hard to keep pushin this part of the map. The guy that does decide to up from a semi-capped feild now has to face being vulched, HOd or rammed.
Best way to counter this game play I think is to just let them have what they want. Let them roll maps in hopes that they will get bored and decide to shift their play to kill things that actually shoot back at them.
-
Dar bar is 500Ft? Was that in a readme somewhere?
Anyway, yes, the other day we took a field with just three guys, not many in the 65th left. It can be done. My entire point is the game has devloved into a large furball, where the side able to mass #s wins. The shorter #s side get discouraged and fight all over the map instead of facing the horde, to protect scores, whatever the reason. Very tedious and not really fun.
So, take the XXXX squad with five wings. So what you are saying is the 16 or so squad billets per block on the squad listing are single squads. That between the five wings they do not contribute holisticly to a common score? That they do not share a common squad vox? If this is the case I had the wrong impression. If you broke a squad into smaller pieces, yes they would have to team speak,etc... they would have to do something outside of a in game parameter to be successful. Once you get seperate squads, you get personalities and another aspects of reality which can desynchronize operations and require large hordes to use the mission editor instead of just squad vox.
-
Bring back? They were never gone (except a few days until everybody found out that darbar is still 500ft ;))
This is why I honestly think they should just eliminate the mission planner on the clipboard. IMO, most don't even use it properly. If you want to fly together, do squad ops. You like taking bases..join a base taking squad and do your thing.
-
Dar bar is 500Ft? Was that in a readme somewhere?
No, because it had been that way in the MA ever since the beginning of AH.
-
The misison editor is used effectively, but your right, but just a few understand it.
If, as some of you suggest, the game has not changed, than why is this the current trend? What is the answer, time? The summer is over after all.....
-
o, take the XXXX squad with five wings. So what you are saying is the 16 or so squad billets per block on the squad listing are single squads. That between the five wings they do not contribute holisticly to a common score? That they do not share a common squad vox? If this is the case I had the wrong impression. If you broke a squad into smaller pieces, yes they would have to team speak,etc... they would have to do something outside of a in game parameter to be successful. Once you get seperate squads, you get personalities and another aspects of reality which can desynchronize operations and require large hordes to use the mission editor instead of just squad vox.
They don't have a common score. For the game it's just different squads, on a common tuned channel. You can't prevent people to wing up with each other.
And you are not really asking for removing tuned channels from the game?
-
If, as some of you suggest, the game has not changed, than why is this the current trend? What is the answer, time? The summer is over after all.....
The "trend" is not current. Multi-Wing squads are nothing new. "Alliances" are nothing new.
Shortly after I joined AH 5 years ago, there was the LCA, which wasn't an ordinary squad back then but a giant multi-wing horde, that initiated the very same complaint's and discussions.
-
Not at all lusche. It is more along the lines of leadership and the dynamics of personalities I am referring to. Success would hinge on one or two "leaders" to carry and direct the fight. Maybe that is what is absent with the knits lately. The most we could get on a base attack with 38 on was 7. Dare I say the rooks and bish have tons of lemmings, or are the knits just "too elite" to band to a common end. Just a thought.....
-
Not at all lusche. It is more along the lines of leadership and the dynamics of personalities I am referring to. Success would hinge on one or two "leaders" to carry and direct the fight. Maybe that is what is absent with the knits lately. The most we could get on a base attack with 38 on was 7. Dare I say the rooks and bish have tons of lemmings, or are the knits just "too elite" to band to a common end. Just a thought.....
Now that sounds more like "why are they organized (have hordes) and we do not?" ;)
-
The misison editor is used effectively, but your right, but just a few understand it.
If, as some of you suggest, the game has not changed, than why is this the current trend? What is the answer, time? The summer is over after all.....
Never said it was not effective. I can almost gaurantee that the mission generals have the same lame missions saved to their clipboard and the only thing they do is change where they take off. Theres no strategy or thought process involved. Even if 10 out of 10 missions fail, they still prance around the map looking to overwhelm undefended targets.
-
You are right about the mission editor trafalz. No denying that.
-
This is why I honestly think they should just eliminate the mission planner on the clipboard. IMO, most don't even use it properly. If you want to fly together, do squad ops. You like taking bases..join a base taking squad and do your thing.
Why would we need to eliminate something from the game?
even if most don't use it properly,( not sure how to improperly use a it) some still do! we use it in FSO every Friday night,, not everything the game has to offer, has to do with the main arena's!
-
I do have to say that i had the wrong impression about you Crusader :salute
-
Never said it was not effective. I can almost gaurantee that the mission generals have the same lame missions saved to their clipboard and the only thing they do is change where they take off. Theres no strategy or thought process involved. Even if 10 out of 10 missions fail, they still prance around the map looking to overwhelm undefended targets.
I am not sure we are talking about the same people, you can complain about who ever you want, but I look forward to the giant bomber missions that are at high alt heading halfway across the map, it adds to the game in a way that nothing else does, they aren't going to take undefended bases, they are doing what generals did in WW2,, bombing targets, those missions are planned in the mission planner for anyone who wants to join, we put together escorts and fly with these guys every chance we get! If you want a one on one without the base taking, then why even go into the MA?
by the way, as long as I can remember, the missions I am talking about don't even have a goon listed!
I would think it would be fun to up and try to intercept those missions,
I don't like to lose a base any more than anyone else, especially if it has good gv locations like a1/ a2 on TT but it happens, and it will continue to happen, until people learn how to defend against them,
removing the mission planner will not change anything for the people that don't know what they are doing but will take away from those who do
the game play has not changed as far as tactics, you still don't want to up from a capped base,, the one thing that is better, is it takes longer to take a field now with the new towns than it used to, therefor you have a good bit more time to up from a base not to far away and come in from on high to get many kills and go home again, as you should,,,, as many people do!
-
Those of you that always complain about people playing/flying together in a massive multiplayer game need to just stick to offline missions where you will be happier. You can whine to the AI all ya want to. Instead of whining (which will change nothing) and telling other people how to play the game they are paying as much as you are, find an area or arena where you are happy, because when it comes down to it, no one cares what anyone else thinks of their play style. Most of you here should know that by now that these wah wah threads are pointless & a waste of time. If you want to complain/cry about people playing together in a multiplayer game, well, have a Coke & a smile & STFU. :)
:rolleyes:
-
nice title. lol
-
Only plausible answer I've ever seen was a suggestion by Delirium---'regional' eny. Is tied to the zone said starting base is in. Couldn't be perfect of course, but it's somewhat doable. Not sure how 30 folks hitting tower at once could be accounted for, unless mebbe a quick roster search is done as you hit the takeoff icon
-
The most we could get on a base attack with 38 on was 7. Dare I say the rooks and bish have tons of lemmings, or are the knits just "too elite" to band to a common end.
yes.. too elite.
:aok
-
When confronted with a horde, this is what I do. (Depending on the mood I'm in.)
A. Up repeatedly, with guns blazing. This serves to, at the least, keep the horde down low. This way fellow countrymen can come from a nearby base to find a buffet of low cons to feast on. At the most you can take a few out of the fight as well. (Wether through direct fire or proxies doesn't matter.)
B. Try upping from said nearby field. You're guaranteed to find a slew of targets. 9 times out of 10 they'll all be low, either looking for the vulch or that last town building that always seems to hide amongst the trees.
C. Refuse to be used as a punching bag and simply move on to another location.
The fact is that these tactics will not stop, and I dare say are even quite valid to some. It's their $14.99, and they can do with it as they please. If a person is not enjoying his/her $14.99, try looking for different things to do in the game. I've yet to see a horde in AvA, (that may change this Tuesday :neener:) Also, there are no hordes in the A.H.X.A.R.L.
To sum it up, it's a cartoon world we play in and there really is no need getting worked up. If you do, then the lemmings have won a far greater victory then a simple base take. You can be certain that they are filling the text buffer with salutes and wtg's. After all, a hollow victory is still a victory to them and they are having fun. You should have fun too......somehow.
<S> Melvin
-
I just bursted out laughing about make 1 wing of a squad, to late now
-
why dont u just calm down, an go take a ride in the cool new mossie.... :devil
-
I once asked ranger what his combat jumps were. He said Afghanistan and Bosnia. I never spoke to him again. What does Sftu mean ranger, please spell it out if you have a ounce of metal.
Now this is a basic thread. Has to do with the having fun. When the only fights on the map have three or four v thirty. Sort of lame. Yes multiplayer got it. So what are the options. Head to an empty arena. Switch sides. Fight piecemeal. Nah. As stated earlier it would appear the knights just don't have the singular drive the other two countries do. It is odd how the personalities have migrated.
-
Those of you that always complain about people playing/flying together in a massive multiplayer game need to just stick to offline missions where you will be happier.
I wonder more and more about this myself. If 30+ folks can get organized and up as a unified group, something that's pretty realistic, what's the gripe again?
We have the duelling arena for those who want the 1v1 combat, but honestly I've had all kinds of different fights since coming back: intercepting the lone buff formation headed for the CV, hitting 1v1, 2v1, 1v2, etc just away from the main fight, manning an ack to defend from a horde, being part of a horde defending from a horde, joining a mission to take a base, porking (or trying to :pray) a field that's launching a horde to try and save a base. I mean all options are already there, so where's all the whining coming from?
The worse part of flying AW right now is getting killed because I took the time to check with someone in a 1v1 to see if they WANTED help, and managing to give up whatever advantage I had because I was busy chatting. I'm really getting tired of trying not to step on others' toes, it's time for me to just go out, fly, and kill (or try to :pray) whatever I come across. It is a COMBAT sim after all.
-
I haven't read all three pages of this but I personally love diving into a horde in my :airplane: (pony) and stirring up the trouble pot. At least until baddies come in over my head. When I am able to get away and see about 10+ with steam coming out of their cockpits and chase after me, my goal was achieved :neener: :rock
Course asuming they catch me, its fun avoid all 10 why they are fighting to see who gets to kill me is pretty fun too :joystick:
-
I once asked ranger what his combat jumps were. He said Afghanistan and Bosnia. I never spoke to him again. What does Sftu mean ranger, please spell it out if you have a ounce of metal.
Now this is a basic thread. Has to do with the having fun. When the only fights on the map have three or four v thirty. Sort of lame. Yes multiplayer got it. So what are the options. Head to an empty arena. Switch sides. Fight piecemeal. Nah. As stated earlier it would appear the knights just don't have the singular drive the other two countries do. It is odd how the personalities have migrated.
"have a Coke & a smile & STFU", is an old joke. I.E. - humor
-
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/trek.gif)
-
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/4i71zec.gif)
-
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/4i71zec.gif)
Spartans!!! :rofl
125th Spartan Warriors
<<S>>
SWkiljoy
-
I'd rather see hoardes then no planes at all. dar bar breeds dar bar= action and kills to be had. If you don't like masses of people go to WW1, AvA, early war or midwar. :salute
-
I'd rather see hoardes then no planes at all. dar bar breeds dar bar= action and kills to be had. If you don't like masses of people go to WW1, AvA, early war or midwar. :salute
Well said.
-
I rarely go to camped spawns but after reading this thread i even upped a few times at a darn good camp just to feel your pain!
knocked my numbers down a good bit but i didn't even whine once,,, waited to see if anyone else said something but nobody did,,, i felt justified!
-
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b346/TheresaAnissa/l_56b350469ebfae777256ae8510c4c287.gif)
-
:cry
Sorry to be a jerk and edit your post. My suggestion to you:
You need to learn to adapt to the game. The gameplay is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. Over time, gameplay evolves as the player base evolves. If it offends you that you are constantly getting horded, perhaps you should try doing something else instead of flying into it? Like bombing? GVing? There are other aspects to the game other than fly around getting ganged and whining about it. Otherwise, learn to skirt the edges of the horde. Lure one or two guys away from the horde so that you can manage them on more equal terms. If the whole horde engages you, fight them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What have you got to lose? NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anything, you can laugh your butt off as 12 guys dive in on you, trying to shoot you down as you dodge all their bullets for 60+ straight seconds.
Remember something. Your cartoon lives are endless. Just reup another plane and fight them again.
-
I have noticed the same MA change in behavior of late. It seemes to be squad dominated. The replies about getting organized or shut up, or similar, would actually seem reasonable but I will make a case for the original poster's point.
As a game, it is only going to be successful if everyone playing has fun. If folks aren't having fun, they'll give it up. Getting organized is a great strategy to improve scores and achieve objectives but it frustrates the unorganized. That is important when you realize that the all of the customer base can't be as organized as some. Organizing yourself into a squad and learning to fly with them, takes a bigger time commitment than learning to fly your plane and hopping into the action. Many can't put in that kind of time. I also disagree that this organized behavior is for those without skill. I think it's just the opposite. I've spent many an hour getting my butt handed to me by the AKs, the muppets, The Few, etc. Hardly skilless lemmings.
Flew for 2 hours yesterday morning in LW orange with 275 people in the arena and got 1 kill. Single planes ran. People only engaged if they had 2 or three squaddies with them. Logged on later and the only action was furball with about ten unorganized individuals fighting a squad of Me-163s. After an hour of running, and dodging, and watching "joe-blow as landed 6 kills in a Me-163" messages, I just logged.
AH is becoming a team sport. Soon only the teams will be left.
That may be fine, and I don't think rules changes should be employed to "correct" it. But I think the game is more fun when the MA is statistically random in it's activity, pilot skill, game play. The team order that is evolving is eliminating the randomness, and what results is large areas of inactivity, or large areas to overwhelming odds.
That kind of play, if consistant, will drive away single players.
The only real solution is for the squads to exersise a little restraint. You don't need to be told what an unfair, un-fun fight is. Just avoid doing it. After all, you are organized enough to control the action. The choice is yours. :salute
-
AH is becoming a team sport. Soon only the teams will be left.
The constant complains about "why can't WE organize??", and the constant presence of 5 armchair generals trying to get people to attack 10 different bases seem to indicate otherwise ;)
But more seriously: Since the dar range was pulled back to the old value, I'm quite fine as a lone wolf again.
Yes, the new towns do require more effort which requires a somewhat greater team effort - but that's just one side of the medal. It also makes sneaking or overrunning large areas at off-peak times more difficult, even an outnumbered defender has now more time to react.
-
From what I observe, the games internal works allows for these mega hordes to form on any side.
At one point yesterday for example : a side had 100+ players fighting another side that had 40+ players, the side that obviously had numbers was running noe after noe with this mega horde against a side that simply could not stop it due to lack of numbers. ENY had little effect, it did not deter the horde from forming, it did not slow them down in steam rolling bases, and surely they were not in any mode of fighting, just pure domination for base taking.
Had they had numbers equal to the rest of the arena, I am sure that they would not have been as succesful in steam rolling bases as they did, its in the dynamics of the game that allows them to have such numbers.
Missions are not the problem folks, its when and how they are used=horde.
Irresponsible players that want to appear as though they are some guru about running this style of mission is the problem, but yet if they are allowed or offered the tools to do it and to make it as easy as possible to run them, then its an HTC problem.
IMO - Cap the arenas PER SIDE or make the ENY so painful that it forces them to switch to another side!!,,, Oh well if your squaddies are in another side or not, go to another arena that may have the numbers to accommodate a mega squad/or a horde or minimize your squad to an acceptable level.
Most players are not taking the responsibility on by themselves to equal the playing field anyway by switching sides to the lower side, capping a side is a way where they don't have a choice, the choice will be made for them. Hence switching sides is part of everyones responsibility squad level up, this is part of the reason why I no longer fly with my previous squad, I did not pledge allegiance to any chess piece and to stay on a side that repeatedly has numbers/horde I in fact was participating indirectly with part of this problem, I fly primarily on a low number side now.
Missions are not the enemy, the horde is. Want to fly in a horde and use sheer lemmings to accomplish something, make it painfully clear that it is discouraged for them. That's the only fix. Until then, they will go on like this until the bottle is pulled from their suckling mouths because the game allows them to keep on with the keeping on.
Just as someone has already mentioned it got so bad, the fight against this side was a fight where it was against ALL or NONE. No fight to be had, A horde would smother a field NOE, take it land it, roll the next one NOE etc......
I flew over several bases waiting for something to come up ,,,,, nothing. At one point they finally upped with 20 or so to take me on...... :rolleyes:
-
Im happy to say that my squad has only captured 24 bases in the last two tours :D (only two of which were goonies)
We try and focus on the fight and the fun more than the reset... whenever im online my crew rarely attacks a base for the take by ourselves. We seem to take to the skies as a support role for the captures that happen more often. We often CAP a base after an epic bomb raid, fly fighter sorties to kill incoming enemies and clear our bases, and escort bomb raids, or fly off CVs blowing planes out of the sky more often than hitting those towns... theres many more ways of having fun in the game if you utilize the horde around you. Yes you may even become a part of the horde, but by using your time to do something that most of the horders do, you suddenly are HELPING the horde even if you arent even thinking of what they are accomplishing 10k feet below you and your wingmen :aok
-
Most players are not taking the responsibility on by themselves to equal the playing field anyway by switching sides to the lower side, capping a side is a way where they don't have a choice, the choice will be made for them. Hence switching sides is part of everyones responsibility squad level up, this is part of the reason why I no longer fly with my previous squad, I did not pledge allegiance to any chess piece and to stay on a side that repeatedly has numbers/horde I in fact was participating indirectly with part of this problem, I fly primarily on a low number side now.
Dads, let's not forget the benefits of being on the outnumbered sides: a good perk bonus and cheap perk planes. I imagine one could fly F4U-4s almost exclusively under those conditions. Must take the sting out of being so noble :)
-
Dads, I agree 100%. It is up to the leader of these hordes to make the missions multi pronged attacks so that the few "defending" or looking for a fight have half a chance at some fun.
Again, like the NOEs, if Hitech has to step in a lot of people may not like the solution he comes up with.
It's up the those running these hordes to do something before something is done for them.
-
You big wussies. Get a couple buddies, learn some winging tactics, come in above them in a fast bird and start picking the crap out of them. Most of them won't even acknowledge your presence until you kill a few(Like the Borg in Star Trek, typical drone behavior). Stay alive, distract, pluck off the baby seals, be a general nuisance until you get chased away by eight of them. Escape, rinse, repeat.
-
Dads, let's not forget the benefits of being on the outnumbered sides: a good perk bonus and cheap perk planes. I imagine one could fly F4U-4s almost exclusively under those conditions. Must take the sting out of being so noble :)
Do you really think its enough or in fact even working?
I don't think its doing anything to prevent a horde much less counter one.
Perks/Bonus is the incentive to equal sides: not the solution. :aok
Red Guys are Red Guys.... They just don't know they are Dead yet.... :lol
You big wussies. Get a couple buddies, learn some winging tactics, come in above them in a fast bird and start picking the crap out of them. Most of them won't even acknowledge your presence until you kill a few(Like the Borg in Star Trek, typical drone behavior). Stay alive, distract, pluck off the baby seals, be a general nuisance until you get chased away by eight of them. Escape, rinse, repeat.
This works,,,,,, when you can find them or lucky enough to catch them in the act........
It would not have worked the day I described, by the time you upped from another field and was halfway there the field would be captured. By the time you arrived they all landed and was on the another field many sectors away.... rinse repeat....
Dads, I agree 100%. It is up to the leader of these hordes to make the missions multi pronged attacks so that the few "defending" or looking for a fight have half a chance at some fun.
Again, like the NOEs, if Hitech has to step in a lot of people may not like the solution he comes up with.
It's up the those running these hordes to do something before something is done for them.
I welcome a solution, before its too late.
The EW, MW arenas are ghost towns because of this style of play, its all that ever happens in there now.
LW is steadily heading down that path.
-
Lol, if it isn't one thing, it'll be another.
Personally, I don't see hordes or noes as a problem.
-
You big wussies. Get a couple buddies, learn some winging tactics, come in above them in a fast bird and start picking the crap out of them. Most of them won't even acknowledge your presence until you kill a few(Like the Borg in Star Trek, typical drone behavior). Stay alive, distract, pluck off the baby seals, be a general nuisance until you get chased away by eight of them. Escape, rinse, repeat.
Not necessarily the way I would say it, but definitely a too true writeup. Harass them until they run out of steam. They always do...
-
The only mechanism I have seen actually limit horde tendancies is the zone limit.
It was applied successfully for a period in AW. Basically each field has a limit upon how many planes / vehicles can be launched from it a any one time.
The limit would have to be dynamic. At least inversely proportional to the number of active fields any side has.
Hordes (IMO) are actually the product of mindless "swarming".
They (horde members) are not clever enough to up from rear fields once a front field has all its planes air borne.
Horde generals (using the swarm analogy "Horde Queens") are not usually clever enough to set up co ordinated attacks (missons) from several air fields as would be required under zone limit.
The result is that the front line becomes more spread, fields are only horde attacked when there are two enemy fields virtually equidistant from them. (triangulated attack).
When mission planners / generals are able to opperate more complex missions from multiple airfields then probably they deserve any reward going.
Having said all that I do not believe the Horde problem is what it used to be. I do not see maps being rolled up at any fantastic rate. Indeed what I generally see is a strike and counter strike form of arena gameplay. Which whilst annoying that your base field is now being capped where before the roll was reversed is no more or less than such game play should be.
-
I welcome a solution, before its too late.
The EW, MW arenas are ghost towns because of this style of play, its all that ever happens in there now.
LW is steadily heading down that path.
<S> Dads but surely not. The EW and MW are lightly populated because players want to fly the late war planes not because of gameplay issues. And LW had been heading down that path forever - players will gravitate to the larger dar bars. Bases have always been swarmed - I don't see anything new.
-
The EW and MW are lightly populated because players want to fly the late war planes not because of gameplay issues.
Actually, it's a combination of several issues that the EW is almost completely deserted now, and that includes some issues in gameplay (planeset balance, same ack levels for CV and fields as in LW, 17 pounder guns on EW vbases and more).
-
... LW had been heading down that path forever - players will gravitate to the larger dar bars. Bases have always been swarmed - I don't see anything new.
I was speaking more along the lines of LW heading down the path of being a ghost town as EW, MW is now not merely the style of play.... Correct me if I am wrong here, but Player base in LW isn't what it used to be as in population wise..... many factors could be a part of that but certainly the frustration that players have is a factor that must be accounted for. <S> Shiv
-
when you see the base flashing, up a la7 or tempest, kill the goon, problem solved.
-
when you see the base flashing, up a la7 or tempest, kill the goon, problem solved.
lol, mind you the other 28-29 planes? i honor the ones who up into 10+man hordes, but however it's a bit foolish if ya ask me
-
I have noticed the same MA change in behavior of late.
…
Flew for 2 hours yesterday morning in LW orange with 275 people in the arena and got 1 kill. Single planes ran. People only engaged if they had 2 or three squaddies with them.
…
The only real solution is for the squads to exersise a little restraint.
I perceive the same change in the MA. Good, suspenseful fights are fewer and farther between. I have been going to the AvA, where a horde is three people, and one can change sides without a timer.
Though squads may be the nucleus of a few hordes, I don’t think the grouping can be that easily controlled. Once they are rolling, they are like a thunderstorm cell. It sucks everything in until it expends all its energy.
But more seriously: Since the dar range was pulled back to the old value, I'm quite fine as a lone wolf again.
Yes, the new towns do require more effort which requires a somewhat greater team effort - but that's just one side of the medal. It also makes sneaking or overrunning large areas at off-peak times more difficult, even an outnumbered defender has now more time to react.
My opinion is that the changes to the town (and field layouts) have had a larger impact on player behavior than the changes to the radar.
It is up to the leader of these hordes to make the missions multi pronged attacks so that the few "defending" or looking for a fight have half a chance at some fun.
The result is that the front line becomes more spread, fields are only horde attacked when there are two enemy fields virtually equidistant from them. (triangulated attack).
When mission planners / generals are able to opperate more complex missions from multiple airfields then probably they deserve any reward going.
Complex missions would be great. But, I do not believe they will ever be common in the main arenas. It is not reasonable to expect people to work so much while they are playing. People would have to be briefed, be reliable, and be able to commit to a certain amount of time. Plus, there are too many chiefs and not enough warriors. Personally, I think a clever plan would be fun occasionally.
There is always FSO for the complex mission fans.
-
Lets see, several months ago the complaint was the constant NOE missions ruining game play. Aces High changed the radar settings. Now some are complaining that the mega hordes are ruining game play, so they want something done about this..
I was part of an attack on a V-base #41 I think in orange, and we got our bellybutton handed to us by the Knights. We had maybe 50 tanks rolling on that base. They defended that base with everything they had and turned away the attack. It turned out to be a very fun fight.. Maybe you should join the dueling arena if you do not want to find yourself defending against large numbers.. I have been part of large missions, and have defended against them . Either way, they are always good fights in my own humble opinion.. I play with the Bishops, but have seen just as many Knight and Rook hordes as well..
A poster made the comment that many who fly in squads are without skill.. I do not know what game he is playing but from what I see most of the best players in the game are all in squads...The teamwork, planning, and friendships created while playing with a squad are what make the game enjoyable to me... I learned more with a squad then I ever learned when playing by myself..
Instead of complaining about hordes, you should figure out a way to combat against them...
I think many of the guys complaining are upset because they cant picktard all of the noobs and bank their easy kills for high scores every month. With more squads, they actually have to engage more than one, and risk hurting that most important kill/death ratio.
-
The horde are a result of people playing with out skill. They need the "safety in numbers". The horde won't disappear untill people learn to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. The best way to reach this end is by having these "mega squads" train their people. I know, most will say they do have training, and some of them even do :P but until they train and then use them as trained groups they will have hordes.
Right now they use 30+ people to hit a base, and sometime they get it, sometimes not. Even if they "train" like they say they do, they run missions as a horde because they either don't trust the training they have done, or they have to admit that they really havn't trained at all. If they were a trained group they could take two bases at the same time with that many. Hitting 2 bases at the same time would force the enemy to split their defense making their attack work even better.
Until these "mega squads" can be honest with themselves and truly train, and use those trained elements as attack groups we will have skillless hordes counting on numbers to get done what skill could get done on a wider scale.
Sorry Fugitive, but your comments are clearly based on your own biased opinion and hold no merit. If Aces High was meant to be what you think it should be, then why did they set up the game to have squads of 30 people? Are you saying that they should reduce the roster to a lower number? If they did this, All that would happen is squads would make alliances and continue grouping together. Some of the best ranked players in the game are in the mega squads that you talk about. Are you saying that they are without skill? If they want to up 30 guys on a mission to take a base or die trying, what business is it of anyone to say they cant? If they are having a good time, I say go for it! So what your saying Fugitive is that you have never flown in a mission of more than just a few people. You should learn to defend against them...
-
Some of the best ranked players in the game are in the mega squads that you talk about. Are you saying that they are without skill?
I would recommend leaving the ranking stuff out of this topic. Rank in AH is to a large degree a result of having a certain style of play.
-
Sorry Fugitive, but your comments are clearly based on your own biased opinion and hold no merit. If Aces High was meant to be what you think it should be, then why did they set up the game to have squads of 30 people? Are you saying that they should reduce the roster to a lower number? If they did this, All that would happen is squads would make alliances and continue grouping together. Some of the best ranked players in the game are in the mega squads that you talk about. Are you saying that they are without skill? If they want to up 30 guys on a mission to take a base or die trying, what business is it of anyone to say they cant? If they are having a good time, I say go for it! So what your saying Fugitive is that you have never flown in a mission of more than just a few people. You should learn to defend against them...
Actually he was pretty much right.
The players that frequent large hoards generally suck worse than the average player does. It totally makes sense if you think it through. Who fights more? The guy in a 20-5 or a 5 on 5.
By flying with a hoard you limit not only the frequency but TYPE of fight you generally have.
The player the seeks our even odds, or even slightly outnumbered, will have a many more opportunities to have not only have more fights, but different styles of fights. They learn more because of this.
So yes, 'always flying in a pack' type players are generally sub-par skill wise. The nature of the hoard makes it so.
(edit: I might add that low rank is not by any means an indication of skill)
-
Lets see, several months ago the complaint was the constant NOE missions ruining game play. Aces High changed the radar settings to combat this. Now some are complaining that the mega hordes are ruining game play, so they want something done about this..
I was part of an attack on a V-base #41 I think in orange, and we got our bellybutton handed to us by the Knights. We had maybe 50 tanks rolling on that base. They defended that base with everything they had and turned away the attack. It turned out to be a very fun fight.. Maybe you should join the dueling arena if you do not want to find yourself defending against large numbers.. I have been part of large missions, and have defended against them . Either way, they are always good fights in my own humble opinion.. I play with the Bishops, but have seen just as many Knight and Rook hordes as well..
A poster made the comment that many who fly in squads are without skill.. I do not know what game he is playing but from what I see most of the best players in the game are all in squads...The teamwork, planning, and friendships created while playing with a squad are what make the game enjoyable to me... I learned more with a squad then I ever learned when playing by myself..
Instead of complaining about hordes, you should figure out a way to combat against them...
I don't know if you were referring to my post way back one page 1, but this is the closes I came to saying "those in a squad have no skill"....
The horde are a result of people playing with out skill. They need the "safety in numbers". The horde won't disappear untill people learn to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. The best way to reach this end is by having these "mega squads" train their people. I know, most will say they do have training, and some of them even do :P but until they train and then use them as trained groups they will have hordes.
I was the CO of the 444th Air Mafia for years, both in Air Warrior, and here in Aces High. We were Bish (surprise!) and use to take small air fields in minutes, as well as work a number of bases at once. At one point we even had 3 wings. So yes I understand about "squads", as well as big squads. I understand how to run missions as well as using the mission planners (I had over 50 saved missions at one point). I understand about grabbing bases as well as porking refineries, and the ever exciting resupply missions of both bases and factories. We did it all, except I don't think you could EVER call us a horde!
Our main wing (10-12 guys on an average squad night) was used as our main attack wing. A goon or two, a couple light fighters for cover the rest in some type of hvy. Second wing was a prep-squad. They would "prep" a base or two or three as either diversions or for clearing ack and GVs. 3rd wing had three guys in and they were the porkers. They would pork fuel and ammo all along the front we were working.
These guys trained at this. I could count on 75-80% accuracy in the bombing. I knew how many guys I needed to drop what I wanted at any base. We had maps set up so that our buffs could come in from 3 different directions and flatten a town in one pass. We had ack run maps so that 4 guys could each make a single pass and deack a field. Taking two bases at once was always given a go just to see if we could do it. Co-ordinating the timings and waypoints so that the GVs and the buffs and the fighters all set off the base flash at the same time was as much fun as actually winning the base.
You just don't see that kind of play anymore, why? because player today are either too worried about their score, or just don't have any skill. Skill is something that can be taught, but a very large percentage of the people playing today won't bother to get better because all they care about is winning the map and the easiest way to do that is to roll bases with large numbers striking only where the enemy is not. Why fight for it? because when it comes down to a fight that can't win. Hec k 75% of the people playing today could find the trainers site with a link let alone know half of whats on there.
The game is turning more and more into an arcade game and everyone has unlimited quarters. you don't need any skill or training, just get a few more friends as cannon fodder in your mega-squad. One of you is bound to get through with the troops :rolleyes:
-
I don't know if you were referring to my post way back one page 1, but this is the closes I came to saying "those in a squad have no skill"....
I was the CO of the 444th Air Mafia for years, both in Air Warrior, and here in Aces High. We were Bish (surprise!) and use to take small air fields in minutes, as well as work a number of bases at once. At one point we even had 3 wings. So yes I understand about "squads", as well as big squads. I understand how to run missions as well as using the mission planners (I had over 50 saved missions at one point). I understand about grabbing bases as well as porking refineries, and the ever exciting resupply missions of both bases and factories. We did it all, except I don't think you could EVER call us a horde!
Our main wing (10-12 guys on an average squad night) was used as our main attack wing. A goon or two, a couple light fighters for cover the rest in some type of hvy. Second wing was a prep-squad. They would "prep" a base or two or three as either diversions or for clearing ack and GVs. 3rd wing had three guys in and they were the porkers. They would pork fuel and ammo all along the front we were working.
These guys trained at this. I could count on 75-80% accuracy in the bombing. I knew how many guys I needed to drop what I wanted at any base. We had maps set up so that our buffs could come in from 3 different directions and flatten a town in one pass. We had ack run maps so that 4 guys could each make a single pass and deack a field. Taking two bases at once was always given a go just to see if we could do it. Co-ordinating the timings and waypoints so that the GVs and the buffs and the fighters all set off the base flash at the same time was as much fun as actually winning the base.
You just don't see that kind of play anymore, why? because player today are either too worried about their score, or just don't have any skill. Skill is something that can be taught, but a very large percentage of the people playing today won't bother to get better because all they care about is winning the map and the easiest way to do that is to roll bases with large numbers striking only where the enemy is not. Why fight for it? because when it comes down to a fight that can't win. Hec k 75% of the people playing today could find the trainers site with a link let alone know half of whats on there.
The game is turning more and more into an arcade game and everyone has unlimited quarters. you don't need any skill or training, just get a few more friends as cannon fodder in your mega-squad. One of you is bound to get through with the troops :rolleyes:
I agree with the part about score not really being a true indicator of skill. Maybe I used that comparison badly.. I think Aces High contributed to this issue in a good way when they changed the entire layout of the game a few months ago.. Dont get me wrong. I love the new changes... Before, I alone could easily go into a gv base, take out the three hangers and couple ack guns, spawn out and drive back with a goon to take the base. This is alot harder to do now... Before they complained about the tool shedders taking all of the undefended bases.
Now players have conformed to the changes, and realize that taking a defended base takes more than just a few players.. I am mainly speaking of towns.. Everyone has to admit that it is much harder to take a town now than it was before the new version came out.. We took bases over the weekend with only about 10-12 guys. I wouldn't consider that a horde. These mega missions are something that occurs in every country. Not just Bish. I say that the receiving end of them should just get together and defend against them...
-
Actually he was pretty much right.
The players that frequent large hoards generally suck worse than the average player does. It totally makes sense if you think it through. Who fights more? The guy in a 20-5 or a 5 on 5.
By flying with a hoard you limit not only the frequency but TYPE of fight you generally have.
The player the seeks our even odds, or even slightly outnumbered, will have a many more opportunities to have not only have more fights, but different styles of fights. They learn more because of this.
So yes, 'always flying in a pack' type players are generally sub-par skill wise. The nature of the hoard makes it so.
(edit: I might add that low rank is not by any means an indication of skill)
Did fighter planes in WWII fly alone on a regular bases? Maybe on a few occasions, but mostly they flew in groups for better defense and offense.. Even in a game it is human nature to form up in packs. I think Sir that this is and will always be a part of the game...
-
Did fighter planes in WWII fly alone on a regular bases? Maybe on a few occasions, but mostly they flew in groups for better defense and offense.. Even in a game it is human nature to form up in packs. I think Sir that this is and will always be a part of the game...
I swear, if hear another "they did XXX in ww2". Ill loose it.
I know we will be faced with the same ol bs years down the road. Those generals are a dime a dozen and where one leaves, 2 or 3 take their place.
We tend to forget that public forums are meant to show someone's view on a subject. Personally, I hate the NOE hordes. By no means am I telling you to play a certain way or my way is the best way. Its just how I feeel
-
I swear, if hear another "they did XXX in ww2". Ill loose it.
I know we will be faced with the same ol bs years down the road. Those generals are a dime a dozen and where one leaves, 2 or 3 take their place.
We tend to forget that public forums are meant to show someone's view on a subject. Personally, I hate the NOE hordes. By no means am I telling you to play a certain way or my way is the best way. Its just how I feeel
Agreed!! especially with the bolded section.
I would like to see fights. I'm tired of logging in and see a big darbar. Up from a near-by base only to get there AFTER the horde has taken the base and disappeared to some other undefended area of the map.
Sure you ANYBODY can take a base with 30-50 players. Show me some skill, show me some balls, show me some tactics, take three bases at the same time with those numbers. Me and the other guys might stop you at one, but I don't think we'll stop you at all three. So everyone wins, you get your bases, and some of us have fun defending.
After all, it is a game and we are all suppose to be having fun.
-
Did fighter planes in WWII fly alone on a regular bases? Maybe on a few occasions, but mostly they flew in groups for better defense and offense.. Even in a game it is human nature to form up in packs. I think Sir that this is and will always be a part of the game...
Keep in mind death was real in WW2 so there was a bit more motivation to stick with your crowd. Since death isn't real here, hiding in a horde is just silly. As soon as AH implements the one death and you are gone subscription, I'll buy into the horde mentality.
-
Keep in mind death was real in WW2 so there was a bit more motivation to stick with your crowd. Since death isn't real here, hiding in a horde is just silly. As soon as AH implements the one death and you are gone subscription, I'll buy into the horde mentality.
I never said that I was for or against the horde. I basically said that it is human nature for people in any situation to group together and form units. We can say that this is not fair, right, or useful but it is the way it is. We just have to play the way we enjoy the game and not worry about what the large squads are doing... The WWII comparison was used not because this is a WWII simulation game. It was used only because that was the case with the replica planes used in the game.
One thing is very clear about the game. It is addicting and alot of fun to play. And no matter what changes happen to it in the future, there will always be some who do not like it... Read my past comments about the radar changes. I hated that when they did it...The height wasn't really a big deal. It was the overlapping rings.. I recall that many of the people who loved the changes were speaking out against them a month later..
-
I swear, if hear another "they did XXX in ww2". Ill loose it.
I don't know why you all get so tired of hearing the above statement. Equally is seen, "I remember back in AW........".
I'm ready for HiTech to step in, please do something about the hoards (or however you want to spell it), ho-ing, picking, ramming, not being able to find a fight, caps, eny, (add your own).
Please HiTech, just dump the game and start all over. I think you should go back to the beginning because all the years you, your staff, and volunteers have spent creating this game is all crap now. Do something before your game collapses, all the players quit, your employees are laid off, and you go bankrupt.
Jeeeeeeeeez it never ends.
Soon to be the last player in the game.
Fred
-
I swear, if hear another "they did XXX in ww2". Ill loose it.
I don't know why you all get so tired of hearing the above statement.
Fred
You do notice that people use that statement only when it seems convenient to them at that particular time. Equally as ignorant to say "well they do it to us, so its OK to do it back".
People forget sportsmanship. Competing as hard as you can and having respect in your opponent while having high standards for integrity for the sport (or in this case a cartoon video game).
Only you are responsible for your own actions. If your known to only pick, HO, gang, vulch or join 20+ NOE missions, it will show then thats the reputation you are going to get. The same way you think of those guys that do that kind of stuff is the same way they are going to think of you if you participate in it.
Play the game the way you want. Its what your going to do anyway. But I as well as others can certainly have an opinion on how we feel about it
-
After all, it is a game and we are all suppose to be having fun.
They ARE having fun.
Its what THEY like to do.
I've never understood guys who complained about other guys taking "undefended" bases.
If you're no where near the base that is being taken and are apparently too busy doing other things to take the time to defend it, how could it possibly affect your game play.
-
The only real solution is for the squads to exersise a little restraint. You don't need to be told what an unfair, un-fun fight is. Just avoid doing it. After all, you are organized enough to control the action. The choice is yours. :salute
words of wisdom :aok
In the short term using your squad's numbers and experience will get your name in lights, improve your score, make it easy on yourself etc. In the long term all it does is discourage individual players, and players with less experience. ie. new subscribers. keep going this way and eventually there will be no one left to shoot.
we have 3 wings and a total of ?80 registered players, so strictly speaking we are a megasquad. however there is very rarely more than 10 of us flying at the same time, and when there is we try not to completely swamp an area because we are very aware of the gameplay implications. if there are 10 of us on, we will try to start a fight somewhere away from the rest of the knits because overall for gameplay its better to have 3 fights with 10 knits in each rather than 1 fight with 30. it doesnt always work out that way, but that is the the goal. on the very rare occasions that theres 20+ of us on, we will be attacking/defending 2 different locations.
hordes are rubbish anyway - generally the opposition will just go somewhere else, and if you do want kills you have to compete with your own side to get them.
like vinkman suggested, if youre in a big squad you can have a big impact on everyone's gameplay, and this also means you have a responsibility to use those resources wisely, for the sake of everyone playing.
-
I would like to see fights. I'm tired of logging in and see a big darbar. Up from a near-by base only to get there AFTER the horde has taken the base and disappeared to some other undefended area of the map.
I've been up the last 3 nights in LWB and each time have been involved in huge furballs over a base that lasted quite a while. Last night there was a huge furball / GV fight at one of the Bish Vehicle Bases that went on for over an hour. Sure, it's possible to run sneak attacks to grab a base, and frankly sometimes that's the best way to break up a horde (I was involved in one attack to grab a Vehicle Base to take the pressure off a different base one of the nights), but I've done several runs of lifting up from a base to gain alt to dive through the horde. I've just jumped into too many "horde fights" over the last couple of weeks where there have been M3s/Osties driving around and manned ack guns defending while planes make passes on the horde and the base has held to believe that this is some huge major sweeping problem.
I think the 3-country setup is a bigger deal. When I logged on last night, it was 37/75/65 country numbers. At least the 37 were doing their best to defend the couple of bases that were under heavy attack, but aside from an occasional side buff run to try and pork a base it was nearly all defense.
-
I would like to see fights. I'm tired of logging in and see a big darbar.
And I'm tired of logging in and seeing virtually no darbars, which happens after you-know-what cripples arenas at my prime time during weekdays ;)
Actually I love big red darbars. I'm magically attracted by them. If they are accompanied by a big or no green darbar at all is of secondary importance and guides only my choice of plane and takeoff location. They provide me with action and kills.
-
Man, once the naysaying dweebs who always emerge on the first page or two of a post migrate, the remaining have brought up some great points and discussion. Been some really good reading and has adjusted some of my perspectives on the game. (Happens often enough, I still have my first adjustment PM from Lute years ago, thanks Lute) To you gentlemen of the boards, a big <S>. I did like Dads idea on capping country #s, just don't know what the effects would be of doing so to retaining players, etc. Might help balance out the sides numbers wise.... Is there a master list which states how many people are currently affiliated with each country? Just wondering...
-
I swear, if hear another "they did XXX in ww2". Ill loose it.
I don't know why you all get so tired of hearing the above statement. Equally is seen, "I remember back in AW........".
I'm ready for HiTech to step in, please do something about the hoards (or however you want to spell it), ho-ing, picking, ramming, not being able to find a fight, caps, eny, (add your own).
Please HiTech, just dump the game and start all over. I think you should go back to the beginning because all the years you, your staff, and volunteers have spent creating this game is all crap now. Do something before your game collapses, all the players quit, your employees are laid off, and you go bankrupt.
Jeeeeeeeeez it never ends.
Soon to be the last player in the game.
Fred
I'll step in but not like you think.
The reason people get tired of that statement is the exact same reason I detest it.
AH is a simulation using WWII aircraft, and NOT a simulation of WWII. As I have said before, games are meant to be FUN and FAIR, war is neither. So almost any statement "they did XXX in ww2" is not considering what is the most fun in the main arenas.
HiTech
-
I'll step in but not like you think.
The reason people get tired of that statement is the exact same reason I detest it.
AH is a simulation using WWII aircraft, and NOT a simulation of WWII. As I have said before, games are meant to be FUN and FAIR, war is neither. So almost any statement "they did XXX in ww2" is not considering what is the most fun in the main arenas.
HiTech
See, it's just a game. Have fun with it.
-
I play this game because it is the most fair game I have played, period. It really hinges on pilot skill, plane choice, and sa.
-
Instead of complaining about hordes, you should figure out a way to combat against them...
This is the hard part. A horde has the advantage of initiative. That is, they (presumably) know where they're going and lift at roughly the same time.
To run an anti-horde would require a number of defenders to sit on alert until the target was obvious. For high alt hordes, it would require a high CAP. It is dull to sit and wait, or orbit and wait.
I had a great time within the last month when a horde came into a base, which happened to have a friendly cv within its radar circle, and an inbound enemy cv inbound. It turned into a rare persistent furball. Defenders and attackers could re-up quickly and keep the fight going. This confluence of factors is not typical. I don't know how to change anything to make this more common.
-
This is the hard part. A horde has the advantage of initiative. That is, they (presumably) know where they're going and lift at roughly the same time.
To run an anti-horde would require a number of defenders to sit on alert until the target was obvious. For high alt hordes, it would require a high CAP. It is dull to sit and wait, or orbit and wait.
Or pork their bases while they are in the air...
-
I really dont think it should be so hard to understand....
Larger towns with good ack = Need for large numbers to capture the base
If anyone intended for there not to be a return to the days of large "hordes" then they don't understand human nature...
I have assumed that "the powers that be" intended for this to occur with the changes to the town....
There are three reasons to play an online game:
1. community/friendship etc
2. Combat
3. Accomplishing objectives
Right now I am playing AION quite a bit....and while I like fantasy characters and "killing" orcs etc (COMBAT)....i mainly "grind" away because i want the gold/special armors/levels (ACCOMPLISHMENT) that doing it allows me. If it was just me running around attacking wandering monsters then i would get bored quickly...
Since we all agree that score means very little in this game...then taking bases etc are the main "accomplishments" that can occur....it now requires overwhelming force to do this...
-
The horde are a result of people playing with out skill. They need the "safety in numbers". The horde won't disappear untill people learn to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. The best way to reach this end is by having these "mega squads" train their people. I know, most will say they do have training, and some of them even do :P but until they train and then use them as trained groups they will have hordes.
Ummm I call bs here...there are many "fiter/l33t" sqwadz that only fly in packs or on the fringes of established furballs...you never find them alone or out of their jets...Once again it is pretty much impossible to take a base unless it is completely undefended without overwhelming force so i dont think it is a "safety in numbers" issue and definitely not the result of ""megasquads" The only thing you dont need large numbers for is simple fiter sweeps and that gets boring after a while...
Right now they use 30+ people to hit a base, and sometime they get it, sometimes not. Even if they "train" like they say they do, they run missions as a horde because they either don't trust the training they have done, or they have to admit that they really havn't trained at all. If they were a trained group they could take two bases at the same time with that many. Hitting 2 bases at the same time would force the enemy to split their defense making their attack work even better.
Let me know when you want to take a base with 15 people and i'll take 4 of my squaddies and deny you all night long...i could probably do it with 2...
Until these "mega squads" can be honest with themselves and truly train, and use those trained elements as attack groups we will have skillless hordes counting on numbers to get done what skill could get done on a wider scale.
so to be clear...what you REALLY want is for the hordes to be more easily rolling bases so they can capture more bases with the same numbers...that is what you think is would be best for the gameplay???
-
Here is a simple analogy.
There are 5 guys on one team (AKA "The HORDE"), and one guy on the other team. They sit down to play chess. 4 of the guys grab the single player and hold him down while the 5th player sweeps all of the single players pieces from the board except the King. Then they play, and the single player can only "say" where to move his king because the 4 other players still have him tied up. Who wins EVERY time? The 5 players are a team, they are elite, they are undefeated, and they are having fun. :rolleyes: The single player well, he's not having fun. Soon he leaves and the 5 players can take turns sweeping the pieces of the board because it's only them, and again they are having fun. :rolleyes:
What I'd like to see is the other 4 player each pull up a table and set up another board and each plays me (the single player) at the same time. I now have a chance to win....maybe not a very good one as I'm not all that good at chess. :D The point is I can have fun because there is a chance to "win" (a goal), some room to play (fight), and best of all, odds are I'll keep playing giving the 5 guys a chance to win (goal) and some room to play (fight). With us all playing and having fun there is a chance at community and friendship.
If steam rolling bases is what you pay your $15 every month I say to you, you missing out on sooooooo much more. That is what I'm trying to point out in these threads. I'm just here trying to have some fun. Unfortunately getting pounded by 20 bats at the same time over and over again really isn't all that much fun.
-
I'll step in but not like you think.
The reason people get tired of that statement is the exact same reason I detest it.
AH is a simulation using WWII aircraft, and NOT a simulation of WWII. As I have said before, games are meant to be FUN and FAIR, war is neither. So almost any statement "they did XXX in ww2" is not considering what is the most fun in the main arenas.
HiTech
I think the point I was trying to make was misunderstood, or as usual I failed to put in writing what I was trying to convey.
I agree with everything you said, and I will even go as far as to say I get tired of hearing it also, but what I was trying to state is that I am equally tired of hearing about the "good old days", or "how is was back then", or "how the game has changed for the worse", "how you will have to intervene and do something about the NOE's or what ever". Satisfy these old hounds, please intervene and lets get it over with. I don't mind change, matter of fact I like it, so lets make them happy, do something about the mega squads or what ever.
The simple point I was really trying to make, is I think this game is as fun, or funner(may not be a word) than it was when I first started playing. For years I hear the same old bunch complain about the same old stuff. It reminds me of a Soap Opera, it is just a constant circle of complainants.
Fred
-
I think the point I was trying to make was misunderstood, or as usual I failed to put in writing what I was trying to convey.
I agree with everything you said, and I will even go as far as to say I get tired of hearing it also, but what I was trying to state is that I am equally tired of hearing about the "good old days", or "how is was back then", or "how the game has changed for the worse", "how you will have to intervene and do something about the NOE's or what ever". Satisfy these old hounds, please intervene and lets get it over with. I don't mind change, matter of fact I like it, so lets make them happy, do something about the mega squads or what ever.
The simple point I was really trying to make, is I think this game is as fun, or funner(may not be a word) than it was when I first started playing. For years I hear the same old bunch complain about the same old stuff. It reminds me of a Soap Opera, it is just a constant circle of complainants.
Fred
Bmwgs, You couldn't have said it better.. Too many old farts thinking about the good ole days and forgetting that time goes forward not backwards. Things change... Way too many of them on these forums..
-
Here is a simple analogy.
There are 5 guys on one team (AKA "The HORDE"), and one guy on the other team. They sit down to play chess. 4 of the guys grab the single player and hold him down while the 5th player sweeps all of the single players pieces from the board except the King. Then they play, and the single player can only "say" where to move his king because the 4 other players still have him tied up. Who wins EVERY time? The 5 players are a team, they are elite, they are undefeated, and they are having fun. :rolleyes: The single player well, he's not having fun. Soon he leaves and the 5 players can take turns sweeping the pieces of the board because it's only them, and again they are having fun. :rolleyes:
What I'd like to see is the other 4 player each pull up a table and set up another board and each plays me (the single player) at the same time. I now have a chance to win....maybe not a very good one as I'm not all that good at chess. :D The point is I can have fun because there is a chance to "win" (a goal), some room to play (fight), and best of all, odds are I'll keep playing giving the 5 guys a chance to win (goal) and some room to play (fight). With us all playing and having fun there is a chance at community and friendship.
If steam rolling bases is what you pay your $15 every month I say to you, you missing out on sooooooo much more. That is what I'm trying to point out in these threads. I'm just here trying to have some fun. Unfortunately getting pounded by 20 bats at the same time over and over again really isn't all that much fun.
Ummmm...i'm not following the chess analogy because the 4 guys are breaking the law and violating the rules of the game and not really winning anything because thats not how you play chess....
IF part of how you derive satisfaction from this game is by accomplishing something...in this case taking a base...then the current game setup dictates the need for overwhelming force to accomplish this task...this is what generates the NEED for hordes...it is not a lack of skill...4 guys in 110s and c47s cant drop a town and take it even unopposed...this was not always the case
In case I havent been clear...i do not advocate hordes and i HAVE lost alot of interest in the game because all that i can really do when i log on is hope to dive into a few darbars and get some kills...rinse and repeat...this amuses me for about 3-4 sorties and i log and play another game...this was not always the case either :(
-
Well when I started I did enjoy grouping up/Hoarding a base. Eventually I changed my gameplay because I wanted to start fighting Air to air targets. Not builidngs and ack ,or the occasional uppers. So go do what yah do IDC. Falcon, Im sure you could defend 15 lemmings with 4 guys that's fun some nights. I'll call BS on 15 decent sticks vs. 4 that's mad talk. :rofl My gripe is the 15-20 guys waiting till most log off for the night to start steamrolling bases . From what I remembered MW, had eny for larger squads on 1 side? /rant over :rolleyes:
-
Well when I started I did enjoy grouping up/Hoarding a base. Eventually I changed my gameplay because I wanted to start fighting Air to air targets. Not builidngs and ack ,or the occasional uppers. So go do what yah do IDC. Falcon, Im sure you could defend 15 lemmings with 4 guys that's fun some nights. I'll call BS on 15 decent sticks vs. 4 that's mad talk. :rofl My gripe is the 15-20 guys waiting till most log off for the night to start steamrolling bases . From what I remembered MW, had eny for larger squads on 1 side? /rant over :rolleyes:
+1 on this.
I think the normal pattern for just about anyone that comes into the game loves to join those missions. I did and yes I had alot of fun.
After a while you tend to get bored of fighting more green guys for that poor sap that decides to up. Many times of landing with a full clip of ammo. I just couldnt see where any fun was in it anymore.
To the 2 weeker thats a wannabe naplolean armchair leader, that kind of play is even somewhat excusable. I just cant imagine how people can do that for years and years and still see the fun in it. Most in part I think what has to do with it is the whole idea of being chesspiece loyal. 99% of these guys that play the race to reset are guys that have a frothing hatred for the other team. Most guys that have fun switching sides dont participate in that type of gameplay because they could really care less what state the map is in.