Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Nemisis on September 25, 2010, 11:28:51 PM
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The squad got talking about this today, and I thought it was a rather interesting topic.
One group was arguing that one picks are as dweebish as the others, regardless of circumstances. The other was saying that its somewhat more acceptable if someone with a con on his six says "hey, can someone get this guy off of me", in a furball, or in a 2v2 (you get a con someone else was fighting, who wasn't nessicarily engaging you at the moment).
Whats your oppinion on this?
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well if 2 guys are of to the side of the world in a 1v1 and you interfere then that to me is dweebish. even if your friendly askes for help, if he entered the 1v1 then he should see it through to its end.
but in the midst of a furball, base invation/defence or when its your wingman and those are your intended tactics then hey all is fair.
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in a furball, if it crosses my sights, andisn't a friendly, it's gettin lead.
if i come upon you fighting a red guy...i ask. if you ask me to remain out, i do, and i type this on open so the con knows.
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Unless you are in a private one on one duel in the DA and someone butts in, all is fair. Whether you are winning a fight and a friendly blows the guy away, or if you were losing it and the guy says "Yer clear", alls fair.
This, HOs,RAMS,VULCHES,ROPES,YOU HAD MORE ALT,NO FAIR YOU BOUNCED ME, etc,etc, are all fair. Somewhat lame, but fair.
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if its a squadie ill go after, but if its a country member ill ask first and wait and see who wins :bolt:
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well if 2 guys are of to the side of the world in a 1v1 and you interfere then that to me is dweebish. even if your friendly askes for help, if he entered the 1v1 then he should see it through to its end.
but in the midst of a furball, base invation/defence or when its your wingman and those are your intended tactics then hey all is fair.
i've only once ever refused to help someone that was asking me. he was fighting dedalos.......and seeing as i knew ded asked people to stay out when he was fighting me, i would not go into the fight against him till they finished.
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Okay this is beside this thread, I cannot stop laughing at FLOTSOM avatar. :rofl
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I pretty much accept the MA as a free for all, but if I do see a 1v1, I'll try to ask before engaging.
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Okay this is beside this thread, I cannot stop laughing at FLOTSOM avatar. :rofl
Its even funnier when you realize i am one of the worst sticks in the game!! :banana: :banana:
:salute :salute
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Its even funnier when you realize i am one of the worst sticks in the game!! :banana: :banana:
:salute :salute
Thank you for your honesty sir :salute
:D
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Thank you for your honesty sir :salute
:D
there are some truths that are sooooooo big that even the government couldnt cover it up!!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :airplane: :joystick: :airplane: :headscratch: :airplane: :banana: :headscratch: :airplane: :joystick: :bolt:
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The squad got talking about this today, and I thought it was a rather interesting topic.
One group was arguing that one picks are as dweebish as the others, regardless of circumstances. The other was saying that its somewhat more acceptable if someone with a con on his six says "hey, can someone get this guy off of me", in a furball, or in a 2v2 (you get a con someone else was fighting, who wasn't nessicarily engaging you at the moment).
Whats your oppinion on this?
It all depends on the situation man. If you're in a squad or team thing it's what you WANT to do imo. If it's about doing a solo thing, you need to let it be known you're ok or ask before you jump in. I've been mad and glad both ways.
Communication lacks a lot of times. Especially around alot of people. If the guy that got picked is complaining about it, it's no big deal as he put himself in that situation. If I know I'm fighting again a group I'll be watching for the attempted pic.....hopefully . I've been mad and glad in that situation too :cheers:
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I hear ya Flotsom. :lol Being too good wouldn't be fun anyhow. I'd like to be king for a day but that would get boring probably. The reward is in killing the guy you didn't think you could. :joystick:
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Its even funnier when you realize i am one of the worst sticks in the game!! :banana: :banana:
You're a lot better in the toon skies than I am. :salute
This is going to be one of those six of one and half dozen of the other discussions. In the main arenas, if someone asks for help it doesn't matter what the guy on his six thinks, if there is someone in position to help he's going to get help unless it's an obvious 1v1 off in a corner somewhere.
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It's a cage match in the mains. Expect to be killed in every manner possible. Dweebish is when someone does not understand that this will happen. :aok
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1 v 1s should be respected and never bothered. There is enough tarding going on in the MA as it is. Pickers and runners should be ganged, vulched, HO'd, Rammed or whatever you have to do to kill the nancy.
Oh and the word replacement filter is kind of ummmm nevermind.
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Eat, or be eaten. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink015.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
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Unless it's an active attempt as taking a base, I'll ask if the friendly is Ok or needs help. I know it pisses me off when some numpty swoops in and kills the guy I just spent 5 minutes with to get him low and slow and now am about to kill him.
A furball is another matter - any red guy flying through my sights might get shot at.
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Unless you are in a private one on one duel in the DA and someone butts in, all is fair. Whether you are winning a fight and a friendly blows the guy away, or if you were losing it and the guy says "Yer clear", alls fair.
This, HOs,RAMS,VULCHES,ROPES,YOU HAD MORE ALT,NO FAIR YOU BOUNCED ME, etc,etc, are all fair. Somewhat lame, but fair.
Ditto!!!
I don't mind shooting them down anyway I can. Picking, like any other aspect of the game can get old. So sometimes I just go in and just get dirty with 'em.
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The last time I took the time to ask someone if he wanted help or wanted to finish the 1v1, I spent so much time typing out the question that the guy on his tail caught me on one of his vertical manuevers and killed me just after I finished typing but before I could get the answer. I'm done trying to find out if a 1v1 is private or not in the MA, head to the duelling arena if you want a 1v1. I don't have time to figure out if it's private or not.
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The last time I took the time to ask someone if he wanted help or wanted to finish the 1v1, I spent so much time typing out the question that the guy on his tail caught me on one of his vertical manuevers and killed me just after I finished typing but before I could get the answer. I'm done trying to find out if a 1v1 is private or not in the MA, head to the duelling arena if you want a 1v1. I don't have time to figure out if it's private or not.
invest in a mic :aok
Or type faster
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invest in a mic :aok
Or type faster
I've got a mic, just folks don't always have one to answer back. Yes, horrible SA on my part (really needed to stay higher while waiting to find out the answer, I put myself in danger), but the point was the enemy con was just out for kills and didn't care about the 1v1. I can find out my countrymate's feelings, but not the enemy con's feelings on the matter. Really, in the MA anything goes, you can't try to guess what's going on with a fight, you just have to fight. If you really want a 1v1, there is an entire arena dedicated to that, so don't get upset if your 1v1 gets spoiled, because there are too many other 1v1s that aren't nearly as chivalrous as you, and I really can't take the time to figure out which one you want to be.
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In a furball I shoot anything red, 1v1 I normally ask on vox.
shamus
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I say lets put a light on a pole directly behind the cockpit. The pole should be at least three feet high so it can be easily seen.
Have a switch mapped to a throttle, stick, or mouse that controls a red or green light. This switch must be mapped to something other than a keyboard, so it can be readily available and there could be no excuse for not being able to activate it.
Green means that you can help me, red means to stay out.
Jeeeeeeeeeez
Fred
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When I enter a fight I realize that I have to keep my mind on more than just the cartoon plane I am engaged with. There is also the situation surrounding us that I have to keep in mind and that includes other AC entering the fight. While a 1 v 1 is generally more desirable the fight doesn't end until I depart the area successfully or die. That being said, if I see another ac in the skies during the fight then I realize that my fight just expanded by one and I have to adjust my tactics accordingly to survive. I personally never expect the other plane joining the fight to stay out of it and expand my ACM to encounter the new plane. Doing this can lead to success more often than not, regardless of rather it is one or two. In the end, if I get engaged by the second plane I would not consider it a pick at all, but poor SA on my part to have allowed it.
The old adage, it isn't over til the fat lady sings holds true. Expect the worse, hope for the best, and plan for success. Now, what I would consider a pick therefore is probably different than most would. To me, if I am engaged with 3 or more, and you not being one of the planes I am not engaged with decide to buzz thru blazing and get the kill, then I would consider that a pick of sorts as you completely robbed those earnestly engaged in my demise of any closure. Surely the odds were against my survival and your killing me only hastened it but those who had entered the fight probably deserved the kill more.
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Now, what I would consider a pick therefore is probably different than most would. To me, if I am engaged with 3 or more, and you not being one of the planes I am not engaged with decide to buzz thru blazing and get the kill, then I would consider that a pick of sorts as you completely robbed those earnestly engaged in my demise of any closure. Surely the odds were against my survival and your killing me only hastened it but those who had entered the fight probably deserved the kill more.
That I'd agree with, and frankly it's stupid anyway, you should be loitering at alt to try and pick any rescuers that come along...
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Jimmy Thatch: hey! Butch!...I have one on my 6, I need some help here!
Butch O'Hare: I see you Jimmy I'm coming down to help.....Oh wait, you are too far to the side of the main fight...Sorry Bud. you got yourself into this mess...Rules are rules!
Jimmy Thatch:You (Expletive Deleted)!!!!
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I've got a mic, just folks don't always have one to answer back.
:lol
You don't need to type to them to have them type back. I ask on Range Vox all the time and sometimes get a text back unless they have a mic. If they don't answer, they're too busy and I assume they want to fight, not talk and I hang out and watch for a minute or two.
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Picking 1v1 is very bad, I would only take someone out 1v1 if the person asks me too.
As for killing people in a furball, thats thier fault. SA is key if you don't want to get picked.
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Picking 1v1 is very bad, I would only take someone out 1v1 if the person asks me too.
As for killing people in a furball, thats thier fault. SA is key if you don't want to get picked.
Possition even more than SA, IMO. If you're dumb enough to get low in a 190D, then its your own damn fault if every enemy within icon range come diving in from 5k to kill you. SA won't much help you avoid the 15 sprayers that will go through all of their ammunition for an assist, but possition might.
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Possition even more than SA, IMO. If you're dumb enough to get low in a 190D, then its your own damn fault if every enemy within icon range come diving in from 5k to kill you.
What you described is part of SA.
ack-ack
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I say lets put a light on a pole directly behind the cockpit. The pole should be at least three feet high so it can be easily seen.
Have a switch mapped to a throttle, stick, or mouse that controls a red or green light. This switch must be mapped to something other than a keyboard, so it can be readily available and there could be no excuse for not being able to activate it.
Green means that you can help me, red means to stay out.
Jeeeeeeeeeez
Fred
i sometimes feel like there is such a device on the rooftop of my shop. it seems to automatically activate right about when i get my lunch ready. then the loons come in.
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To me, if I am engaged with 3 or more, and you not being one of the planes I am not engaged with decide to buzz thru blazing and get the kill, then I would consider that a pick of sorts as you completely robbed those earnestly engaged in my demise of any closure. Surely the odds were against my survival and your killing me only hastened it but those who had entered the fight probably deserved the kill more.
when i see more than 2 chasing/fighting a red guy, i don't even bother.
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If someone asks for help getting someone off their six, no problem. It is just the people who picked the people on my 12 that bothers me :furious
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Agreed. Very annoying when someone clears your 12 o'clock. Or when you both have an equal chance at the kill, but he just sprays and caused your target to jink endlessly.
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picking is a fun and evil sport to club the seals of the MAs :D but i try to avoid it unless flying with a squaddie clearing each other's sixes etc. But in the MA, expect death or chances or dieing from every angle at every altitude...
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i sometimes feel like there is such a device on the rooftop of my shop. it seems to automatically activate right about when i get my lunch ready. then the loons come in.
I have one of those loon beacons too.
Customer: I need the strongest 5/16 UNF bolts you have 2 1/2" long
Me: Oh! What are you using them for?
Customer: To bolt the propellor on my flying machine.
Me: Oh!
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I have one of those loon beacons too.
Customer: I need the strongest 5/16 UNF bolts you have 2 1/2" long
Me: Oh! What are you using them for?
Customer: To bolt the propellor on my flying machine.
Me: Oh!
:rofl
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If the friendly asks for assistance go in. If a friendly asks for you to stay out... stay out. If a friendly puts his arm around you and asks what your doing this evening.... run.
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If the friendly asks for assistance go in. If a friendly asks for you to stay out... stay out. If a friendly puts his arm around you and asks what your doing this evening.... run.
ummmmmmmm Shuffler............WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU WITH THIS GRAND ADVICE BEFORE I JOINED THE MUPPETS?!?!?!?!
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I generally try to follow these rules :
#1. If it's 1v1 away from a fight, I might hover around the area to watch, and likely vox the friendly pilot asking if they need help. If no answer, or a "no", I won't. If "yes" then I dive on in.
#2. If it's a 1v1 away from a fight, but a squaddie, I'm comin in. :neener:
#3. If there are 3 enemies or more, ESPECIALLY if there's only 1 or 2 friendlies chances are I'm joinin the scrum, no notice, no warning.
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If someone asks for help getting someone off their six, no problem. It is just the people who picked the people on my 12 that bothers me :furious
theres a reason why other flyers cover your SIX when engaged :rofl i hate when they kill my prey... :mad:
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I think it is the way it is done that makes it lame. For example, if you can see the con waiting until you engage and then they come in, it is lame. If they are waiting 1000 feet off of the runway until you dodge someone else before the dive in, it is lame. When it is the same guy repeatedly coming in second or third to get you, it is lame (there is no way he is that helpful lol). When they come in head on not even thinking about avoiding a collision, it is lame. Other than that, is is a fair game. Even if the guy did not ask for help and you happened to be there you should take him out because there may be 3 bud guys coming and the 2 vs 1, can turn into a 2 vs 4 if you don't.
I also saw one of the funniest things ever on 200 the other day. SHawk was calling someone a cherry picker :O :O :O :rofl
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SHawk was calling someone a cherry picker :O :O :O :rofl
:rofl :rofl :rofl i was there for that :rofl :banana: :rofl :banana: :rofl It was me of all people he was calling a cherry picker!!!!! :O
i wonder if when he checked my score to see who i was if he puked in his mouth just a lil?! :devil :t :devil
hahahaha i so wished i gotten a screenie of his name in lights!!!!!!
he got so mad cause i picked him when he was attempting to pick my squadie, it was like poetry :joystick: :airplane: :joystick: :headscratch:
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Eat, or be eaten. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink015.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
NOM NOM NOM
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My squad wings alot, more specifically Rotte tactics.
Therefore we get into alot of situations where I have dove in on a con, killed him, drug another con up while Dutch or Jonah come and bag him. Then we start over at the top again with all of the seals down below, each of us having 1 kill now.
I get called a pick tard all of the time for this. But my opinion is there are three different types:
1) Wingmanned as I illustrated before.
2) Tomagina style: stay high come down for no reason but to run.
3) Uber plane above the rest in a furball, not necessarily staying high the whole time just staying fast gettin the easy ones.
Of these 3, I look down on the 2nd one. The rest in my book, are ok. When people tell me on 200 "nice pick dweeb", I reply, "No sir, u were wingmanned"
perdweeb
EDIT: Spelling
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My squad wings alot, more specifically Rotte tactics.
Therefore we get into alot of situations where I have dove in on a con, killed him, drug another con up while Dutch or Jonah come and bag him. Then we start over at the top again with all of the seals down below, each of us having 1 kill now.
I get called a pick tard all of the time for this. But my opinion is there are three different types:
1) Wingmanned as I illustrated before.
2) Tomagina style: stay high come down for no reason but to run.
3) Uber plane above the rest in a furball, not necessarily staying high the whole time just staying fast gettin the easy ones.
Of these 3, I look down on the 2nd one. The rest in my book, are ok. When people tell me on 200 "nice pick dweeb", I reply, "No sir, u were wingmanned"
perdweeb
EDIT: Spelling
You tell them that after a #3? :lol That is the definition of a lame pick. Hover above and wait for someone to get in trouble. The only skill involved in it is getting there latter. I bet if a higher con appears you take a #2? :D
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well if 2 guys are of to the side of the world in a 1v1 and you interfere then that to me is dweebish. even if your friendly askes for help, if he entered the 1v1 then he should see it through to its end.
but in the midst of a furball, base invation/defence or when its your wingman and those are your intended tactics then hey all is fair.
That's about how I see it.
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Most of you do not realize that picking dates back to the 17th century. Way before planes were invented.
One only had to climb the mast and wait in the sails till the other vessel was close in. Then jump on a guy on the deck of the other ship. It was a dangerous proposition as you might get damaged in the process. Not to mention you would probably get ganged even after a successful pick.
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Most of you do not realize that picking dates back to the 17th century. Way before planes were invented.
One only had to climb the mast and wait in the sails till the other vessel was close in. Then jump on a guy on the deck of the other ship. It was a dangerous proposition as you might get damaged in the process. Not to mention you would probably get ganged even after a successful pick.
Ok, now you're just trying too hard. ;)
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I generally try to follow these rules :
#1. If it's 1v1 away from a fight, I might hover around the area to watch, and likely vox the friendly pilot asking if they need help. If no answer, or a "no", I won't. If "yes" then I dive on in.
#2. If it's a 1v1 away from a fight, but a squaddie, I'm comin in. :neener:
#3. If there are 3 enemies or more, ESPECIALLY if there's only 1 or 2 friendlies chances are I'm joinin the scrum, no notice, no warning.
In the MA, IMO any pick is "fair game", even against a 1v1. But it's "fair game" in the same way as pretending you don't see the elderly woman juggling 2 heavy grocery bags on the train so you don't give up your seat - there's no law against it, but it doesn't say much for your character. Unless you are just too new to have learned the ropes yet, of course. So if someone does it to me, I'm not going to say anything - it's fair game and my fault for not whacking him faster.
Knite sums it perfectly, as far as I am concerned.
<S>
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i think an experiment needs to be done.
we all should wait till we see someone else in a fight....and then pick them. :noid
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You tell them that after a #3? :lol That is the definition of a lame pick. Hover above and wait for someone to get in trouble. The only skill involved in it is getting there latter. I bet if a higher con appears you take a #2? :D
No, I enjoy the defensive.
90% of all kills in MA are picks anyway. So why are we keeping score?
perdweeb
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Number 3 on perds little description is my style in the 152. I think there is nothing wrong with this style and have no problem implementing it. Although, you do catch grief from it.
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I think number 3 is the worst depending on what makes the kills easy. If you're just killing planes clearly about to loose a fight, then thats not really an honest kill IMO. If, however, the kill is easy because he is at a disadvantegous possition, or just coming over the top of a loop and moving at a scorching 15mph, then go for it. One of the funnest things to do is catch planes at the top of a loop.
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#3 is going on my resume. :)
On a more serious note, I think everyone, with some exceptions, attempt to get atleast a couple 'easy' kills. If they wanted a challenge every single time then they wouldn't climb above 2k on the way to the fight. Contrary to some others, I like to try to make it home every sortie, but once in a while I'll just say Screw it, and go Leroy Jenkins on 'em (que B25H flying into mass horde guns blazing). Otherwise, I'll try to stay a bit more calculated, and will usually drag a con out if I want an even fight.
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Most of you do not realize that picking dates back to the 17th century. Way before planes were invented.
One only had to climb the mast and wait in the sails till the other vessel was close in. Then jump on a guy on the deck of the other ship. It was a dangerous proposition as you might get damaged in the process. Not to mention you would probably get ganged even after a successful pick.
ARGGGGGHHHHH Matey! Me picked ya's fair and square, but me darn wooden leg got stuck in a hole on deck, my eyepatch slipped and me parrot crapped on me shoulder!!!
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Yeah not all "easy" kills are picks. On my aces high tombstone it will read "They shouldn't have climbed to me."
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Killing a bogey that is saddled by your ally is more disrespectful to your friendly than it is to the bad guy. Of course it is definitely a tough situation a lot of the time, since most engagements are not isolated 1v1s and there are threats nearby. For example if it is just me and a wingy and he is busy 1v1ing someone and bad guys are approaching, lets say for sake of discussion 5-8k out, if I let him have his fight, it is additional time that we could have been spending gaining energy for the impending threats. Or... worst case scenario, he gets picked because he wants to have his fight, which leaves me alone with 3-4 of them, where had I just helped him out when I had an easy pick, we would both be alive, have a kill shared between the two of us and be ready for the next threats.
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I ask if the guy wants help when it's a 1 v 1. I ask others to stay out if I'm in a 1 v 1. My usual response is you can kill him as soon as he's done killing me.
The gray area in the MA is the furballs. From my experience you always have a couple guys in the fastest BnZ bird they can find, who sit above the furballs and wait for the guys below to get busy. They then come busting through, picking kills from guys who have actually done the work. It's the nature of the beast in the MA.
Not worth getting worked up about in the end :)
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I will approach and set up as usual, if I am asked to back off, then I will do so - otherwise - I am going to join in. The opponent has the option to either fight 2 v 1 (and win for glory) or run (for survival) - - there have been plenty of situations where I have joined into an on going 1v1 only to find that the enemy start to multiply pertty quickly. If people really want a 1v1, then go to the TA and do all the 1v1s you want - but in MA - whether you like it or not - its for country. I would rather free that pilot up and get on with pressing or defending, too many people playing around doing 1v1s and such take away from the overal MA experience and that persons slot (since MA is often full) should be opened.
But if asked, I will respect the pilot and back away.
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No matter what game I play, no matter what I do, I'm always going to be called a dweeb by the defeated.
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The gray area in the MA is the furballs.
The gray area is also the definition of a furball. ;)
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The gray area is also the definition of a furball. ;)
And you would agree that the majority of pick whines are generated there too?
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I will approach and set up as usual, if I am asked to back off, then I will do so - otherwise - I am going to join in. The opponent has the option to either fight 2 v 1 (and win for glory) or run (for survival) - - there have been plenty of situations where I have joined into an on going 1v1 only to find that the enemy start to multiply pertty quickly. If people really want a 1v1, then go to the TA and do all the 1v1s you want - but in MA - whether you like it or not - its for country. I would rather free that pilot up and get on with pressing or defending, too many people playing around doing 1v1s and such take away from the overal MA experience and that persons slot (since MA is often full) should be opened.
But if asked, I will respect the pilot and back away.
For country :rofl
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And you would agree that the majority of pick whines are generated there too?
Yes, but again, it depends on how it is done. If you are in the fur ball, fine. If you are hovering above it waiting for someone to get in trouble then it is lame. What is the point of it? Sure one is free to do it because it is his 15$, but it is still lame.
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Yes, but again, it depends on how it is done. If you are in the fur ball, fine. If you are hovering above it waiting for someone to get in trouble then it is lame. What is the point of it? Sure one is free to do it because it is his 15$, but it is still lame.
IT'S not a pic if someone in the furball gets ya. it's the nature of the beast.
now, as you mentioned....those that circle above, dive, come screaming through, nearly supersonic, pop a con, and go back up where it's safe.......well...that's a pick.
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Yes, but again, it depends on how it is done. If you are in the fur ball, fine. If you are hovering above it waiting for someone to get in trouble then it is lame. What is the point of it? Sure one is free to do it because it is his 15$, but it is still lame.
You say 'hovering above a furball' as if the furball itself has clear boundaries and definable parameters. It usually doesn't.
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And you would agree that the majority of pick whines are generated there too?
I agree the majority of pick whines are epic fails.
The last time I was caught whining was when I chased a ta152 2 sectors in the middle of nowhere and he engaged me finally, of course, he only engaged me to get me slow so 2 of his squaddies that took off from this backline base could get a little bit of alt and come and gang me. And of course they didn't show up on radar, since the radar is bugged, and HTC hasn't fixed it yet, despite bug reports.
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Rules??? In a Knife fight??? (Hole in the Wall Gang member to Butch Cassidy)
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You say 'hovering above a furball' as if the furball itself has clear boundaries and definable parameters. It usually doesn't.
I got in trouble last night in AvA where a friendly was in on a con, and I circled above. I went to type something, the enemy did a vertical manuever up to my alt, saw me, and latched on. I tried to egress so he could finish his fight, but he followed me then bugged out completely. Sigh. Ruined a 1v1 without even trying, firing a shot, or getting anywhere near the enemy's six.
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There will always be someone high above a furball trying to say they are in the furball.
Usually high speed birds or jets/rockets.
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There will always be someone high above a furball trying to say they are in the furball.
Usually high speed birds or jets/rockets.
That is usually me. And I typically target P38's because they are bulky and easy to hit.
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lol me and lew learned the other night that a 163 can out turn anything in the game........ Del confirmed that.
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lol me and lew learned the other night that a 163 can out turn anything in the game........ Del confirmed that.
Outturn? no. Outperform? You betcha! :rofl
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Yes, but again, it depends on how it is done. If you are in the fur ball, fine. If you are hovering above it waiting for someone to get in trouble then it is lame. What is the point of it? Sure one is free to do it because it is his 15$, but it is still lame.
I agree with that. Not that anything will ever change :)
I just keep reminding myself that cartoon planes are free and I'm not really dying. I've kinda given up on having any expectations of anyone else but myself in a fight. Last night we had a decent furball going and guys were for the MA playing it better then usual. I turned back in to fight a Hurri IIc and naturally got shot in the face. As the HO shots had been absent during the fights I said 'booo!" over 200. His reply was "It looked like you were going to HO".
That was the best reply yet. His was a pre-emptive HO shot because he thought I might :)
No worries though as true to form I got a new plane. Same goes for the pick. I had the Scorpion king hanging over a furball not too long ago and he had made my 38G his special interest. He'd wait until I was in with 2 or 3 on the deck and then he'd come screaming down from 5K out, shoot and roar back up to his perch at 5K above the fight. Was a bit of a giggle making him miss. He got me a couple times with the 4 20mm in his Tempest but missed a lot more. It was a good example of the furball picker though.
It's all good though. As near as I can tell I'm flying just about the right amount though. When I get the time to fly I really appreciate it regardless of how the fights are going good or bad. Just getting the chance to wade into a pile in the old 38G is enough for me these days :)
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lol me and lew learned the other night that a 163 can out turn anything in the game........ Del confirmed that.
Grizz showed me that film cuz I was talking to him on the phone at the time he killed you. He said you said he should have ripped his wings off.
When I watched the film all I saw was him basically do a low yo-yo and cut you off in your turn and pop you with a tater on a crossing shot. Maybe 3 to 4 G's max. I LOL'd. :D
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I agree the majority of pick whines are epic fails.
Frequently I get the "lame picker!" thrown at me while I am actually the only player of my team in the whole sector. :lol
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i've actually gotten to the point where i rarely whine or complain about anything on open channel. it just ain't worth the time it takes to type it out, and only slows me down getting back to the fight.
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Outturn? no. Outperform? You betcha! :rofl
He said out turn.
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Grizz showed me that film cuz I was talking to him on the phone at the time he killed you. He said you said he should have ripped his wings off.
When I watched the film all I saw was him basically do a low yo-yo and cut you off in your turn and pop you with a tater on a crossing shot. Maybe 3 to 4 G's max. I LOL'd. :D
Yup me and lew were talking about how our wings come off in the same scenario.
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Yup me and lew were talking about how our wings come off in the same scenario.
Don't get me wrong. I agree that Grizz cheats. No argument there at all.
I was just saying in that particular instance where you said his wings should have popped off he couldn't have pulled more than 3 or 4 G's. I'll go home and check it again this evening but I'm pretty sure my memory is correct.
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Frequently I get the "lame picker!" thrown at me while I am actually the only player of my team in the whole sector. :lol
Got that from some guy red959 the other night, it was a 3v1 fight with me being the solo pilot. Kept on calling me a picker each time one of his buddies went down in flames.
ack-ack
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Yup me and lew were talking about how our wings come off in the same scenario.
You need to blame Lew! He's older than the original 163! He should know better by now.
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lol if all that showed was 3 to 4 g then that in itself is amazing.
You should not accuse someone of cheating. There may be some settings at issue.
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lol if all that showed was 3 to 4 g then that in itself is amazing.
You should not accuse someone of cheating. There may be some settings at issue.
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Shuffler1.ahf (http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Shuffler1.ahf)
What was so amazing about this? The answer is nothing. Perception and reality are too completely different things Shuff. ;)
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lol if all that showed was 3 to 4 g then that in itself is amazing.
You should not accuse someone of cheating. There may be some settings at issue.
I think you will be surprised when you see the film. It really was nothing spectacular at all. I can see how it would seem like more from your perspective though.
About cheating - I was just kidding. It seemed like you were implying that Grizz did something fishy so I decided to parlay it into my running joke that Grizz cheats.
I hope we have all come to an understanding now on all of the issues at hand. I would like to express my thanks to everyone on this fine day and wish you all of the best in all of your endeavors whether they be in the harsh realm of Real Life or in that rainless and windless, colorful world of toons. :cheers:
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Just watched the film and according to the instruments it was more than a 3-4 G turn, but I didn't notice anything extra-ordinary either, Grizz is also slowing down considerably at the same time, dropping about 100mph from merge till his shot opportunity. From Shufflers point of view I think the turn looked a lot more drastic than it really was.
I think if you watch the film from the "fixed" camera position and place the camera directly above Grizz's airplane turn on trails (make sure "use recorded views" is off) and play it through you'll see how he got the shot and why it looked so drastic from Shufflers point of view.
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Just watched the film and according to the instruments it was more than a 3-4 G turn, but I didn't notice anything extra-ordinary either, Grizz is also slowing down considerably at the same time, dropping about 100mph from merge till his shot opportunity. From Shufflers point of view I think the turn looked a lot more drastic than it really was.
I think if you watch the film from the "fixed" camera position and place the camera directly above Grizz's airplane turn on trails (make sure "use recorded views" is off) and play it through you'll see how he got the shot and why it looked so drastic from Shufflers point of view.
It may have been more than 3 to 4, I was just guessing, but it was no where near hard enough to pop off wings. But like I said, and you too noticed, I can definitely see how it looked like more from Shuffler's side.
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http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Shuffler1.ahf (http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Shuffler1.ahf)
What was so amazing about this? The answer is nothing. Perception and reality are too completely different things Shuff. ;)
Grizz always seem to have everything filmed, and can recall when necessary when needed. Except the time I popped his 262 with single 37mm fired from my P-39 at 1000yds? :noid
Hmmm highly suspect that the cameras weren't rolling then. ;)
Or did you say you had it but when I asked if you'd post it you said "no way!" :lol
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I call BS......
You have to look at this on the same terms as I did.
Three to four frozen margaritas with a shot on top and salt.
1 8oz limeaid frozen concentrate
Ice to fill blender
Leroux Triple-sec
Cuervo Tequila
1 strong blender
Glasses of choice
Margarita salt (it has larger grains)
Empty 8oz limeaid into blender (keep container)
Fill blender with ice
Fill 8oz limeaid container with triple-sec pour into blender
Fill 8oz limeaid container 3/4 full of tequila
Blend till smooth or the blender motor burns up :D
Wet top of glass with margarita then dip in salt
Fill glass with Margarita allowing room on top for a shot of Tequila
Insert straw
Inhale
I use 12oz AmberBock crystal glasses on stems
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Grizz always seem to have everything filmed, and can recall when necessary when needed. Except the time I popped his 262 with single 37mm fired from my P-39 at 1000yds? :noid
Hmmm highly suspect that the cameras weren't rolling then. ;)
Or did you say you had it but when I asked if you'd post it you said "no way!" :lol
I can validate your claim. I was there when that happened but I was heading over to the fight. Never has a more pure golden BB been fired in all of history. :D
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Grizz always seem to have everything filmed, and can recall when necessary when needed. Except the time I popped his 262 with single 37mm fired from my P-39 at 1000yds? :noid
Hmmm highly suspect that the cameras weren't rolling then. ;)
Or did you say you had it but when I asked if you'd post it you said "no way!" :lol
lol, you may have popped me with a singkle 37mm but you fired about 20.
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I just keep reminding myself that cartoon planes are free and I'm not really dying.
Well, it has nothing to do with the dieing part. If that were the case I would never up repeatedly on a vulched runway just to make them run out of ammo lol. It has to do with waste of time. If I fly for 10 minutes to then chase someone for another 10 and finally force him into a fight and then he or I get picked, it is a waste of time. That is the problem. Time, not the # of times I die ;)
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Grizz showed me that film cuz I was talking to him on the phone at the time he killed you.
OK Grizz, time to come clean. Why are you always on the phone?
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Well, it has nothing to do with the dieing part. If that were the case I would never up repeatedly on a vulched runway just to make them run out of ammo lol. It has to do with waste of time. If I fly for 10 minutes to then chase someone for another 10 and finally force him into a fight and then he or I get picked, it is a waste of time. That is the problem. Time, not the # of times I die ;)
The time argument was validated as legitimate in a certain jeep thread. It got the Corky stamp of approval. :noid
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OK Grizz, time to come clean. Why are you always on the phone?
He is a she. :confused:
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He is a she. :confused:
I did not want to be the one that said it first :rofl However, every time I fight him he is either on the phone or doing his hair :uhoh
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I did not want to be the one that said it first :rofl However, every time I fight him he is either on the phone or doing his hair :uhoh
He's always doing his hair because he is jealous that Kappa always compliments mine and ignores his.
That reminds me, Krupinski, if you are reading this, scratch my availability for the bracket duel on Thursday, I'm going to be washing my hair that night.
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This scenario happened just the other day 109 is fighting a friendly in the area and I start to head that way for a pick and the friendly says "I see what you're looking at Sukov stay away." I end p staying out and see a con a bit lower climbing up I dive and pop him. Well after I kill the low con I check my six and sure enough that 109 had killed the friendly and was now diving on me. I end up fighting him and his buddies that start rushing out to me. I could have avoided that whole mess by just picking the dude and moving on to the lower cons.
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Would it have been as much fun??
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lol, you may have popped me with a single 37mm but you fired about 20.
I didn't say how many I fired...cleverly I might add. ;)
You may be close with 20 but I recall it may have been a bunch of early desperate misses and then a pause and an aimed 3, of which one hit.
You have it don't you? Come on post it. :aok
My only moment of glory in a year of gettin my butt whooped. Even if it was just luck. :angel:
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He's always doing his hair because he is jealous that Kappa always compliments mine and ignores his.
That reminds me, Krupinski, if you are reading this, scratch my availability for the bracket duel on Thursday, I'm going to be washing my hair that night.
:lol
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This scenario happened just the other day 109 is fighting a friendly in the area and I start to head that way for a pick and the friendly says "I see what you're looking at Sukov stay away." I end p staying out and see a con a bit lower climbing up I dive and pop him. Well after I kill the low con I check my six and sure enough that 109 had killed the friendly and was now diving on me. I end up fighting him and his buddies that start rushing out to me. I could have avoided that whole mess by just picking the dude and moving on to the lower cons.
Compliments to you for not replying "Too bad, don't play with your food." :salute
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This scenario happened just the other day 109 is fighting a friendly in the area and I start to head that way for a pick and the friendly says "I see what you're looking at Sukov stay away." I end p staying out and see a con a bit lower climbing up I dive and pop him. Well after I kill the low con I check my six and sure enough that 109 had killed the friendly and was now diving on me. I end up fighting him and his buddies that start rushing out to me. I could have avoided that whole mess by just picking the dude and moving on to the lower cons.
Yep, or by going off line and popping the drones :rofl
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Yep, or by going off line and popping the drones :rofl
I never said I was trying to avoid fights or didn't want to fight just in that instance I would have been better served to kill him and work down. I may play this game with a different style than you. I enjoy getting kills and surviving to land its more of a challenge to me than just getting into a fight.
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I never said I was trying to avoid fights or didn't want to fight just in that instance I would have been better served to kill him and work down. I may play this game with a different style than you. I enjoy getting kills and surviving to land its more of a challenge to me than just getting into a fight.
I am just saying that it would have the same value as a kill off line. Did not say you avoid fights
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My observations:
-Pick= Nailing a victim at a point in time at which SA, odds and/or altitude preclude sufficient chance of retaliation in the victim's mind.
-I see very few good sticks complain about getting "picked". I think the better sticks blame themselves for putting their aircraft in the unfortunate time/place; they see it as a failure of SA on their part or simple desperation to get into a fight.
-SA begins before takeoff. If you are picked on the runway and call vulch or pick on 200, FAIL on you. It was a genuine WWII experience to get blowed up on takeoff roll. Personally, I never pick anyone until they are wheels up and off the airfield. (Less ack anyway :devil)
-You should expect to be picked in the MA. Nobody pays $15 to be your victim. You are responsible for your own survival.
-Some rides basically dictate "picker" strategies. (Pony, Dora etc) My all time fav ride is the P47D25.(Historical sentiment) A jug going into a co-alt merge with an Spixteen or K4 is pretty much an automatic E-disadvantage without an angles advantage. Alt is good, but sometimes Alt-F4 is what you end up doing...
-Folks that fly zekes or spits get a pretty easy win if they corner a picker type low. Just because you didn't have a chance on him while he kept his E doesn't mean he's any better off than you were when he's flopping around on the deck in his pony.
-Regardless of why you fly a certain aircraft (advantages, historical significance, looks) you gotta live w the consequences.
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My observations:
-Pick= Nailing a victim at a point in time at which SA, odds and/or altitude preclude sufficient chance of retaliation in the victim's mind.
-I see very few good sticks complain about getting "picked". I think the better sticks blame themselves for putting their aircraft in the unfortunate time/place; they see it as a failure of SA on their part or simple desperation to get into a fight.
-SA begins before takeoff. If you are picked on the runway and call vulch or pick on 200, FAIL on you. It was a genuine WWII experience to get blowed up on takeoff roll. Personally, I never pick anyone until they are wheels up and off the airfield. (Less ack anyway :devil)
-You should expect to be picked in the MA. Nobody pays $15 to be your victim. You are responsible for your own survival.
-Some rides basically dictate "picker" strategies. (Pony, Dora etc) My all time fav ride is the P47D25.(Historical sentiment) A jug going into a co-alt merge with an Spixteen or K4 is pretty much an automatic E-disadvantage without an angles advantage. Alt is good, but sometimes Alt-F4 is what you end up doing...
-Folks that fly zekes or spits get a pretty easy win if they corner a picker type low. Just because you didn't have a chance on him while he kept his E doesn't mean he's any better off than you were when he's flopping around on the deck in his pony.
-Regardless of why you fly a certain aircraft (advantages, historical significance, looks) you gotta live w the consequences.
Very true
A pick in my mind is a failure in SA on either my part or the part of the victim. Which is why I don't mind picking people.
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Very true
A pick in my mind is a failure in SA on either my part or the part of the victim. Which is why I don't mind picking people.
this is also why i don't get pissed about it anymore.
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I call BS......
You have to look at this on the same terms as I did.
Three to four frozen margaritas with a shot on top and salt.
1 8oz limeaid frozen concentrate
Ice to fill blender
Leroux Triple-sec
Cuervo Tequila
1 strong blender
Glasses of choice
Margarita salt (it has larger grains)
Empty 8oz limeaid into blender (keep container)
Fill blender with ice
Fill 8oz limeaid container with triple-sec pour into blender
Fill 8oz limeaid container 3/4 full of tequila
Blend till smooth or the blender motor burns up :D
Wet top of glass with margarita then dip in salt
Fill glass with Margarita allowing room on top for a shot of Tequila
Insert straw
Inhale
I use 12oz AmberBock crystal glasses on stems
Well, it seems as though you were very distracted and/or tipsy then when you posted in this thread. Or are you referring to when my magical Me163 pulled physics defying maneuvers? In any case, I would please like one of your margaritas, they sound delicious.
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Just watched the film and according to the instruments it was more than a 3-4 G turn, but I didn't notice anything extra-ordinary either, Grizz is also slowing down considerably at the same time, dropping about 100mph from merge till his shot opportunity. From Shufflers point of view I think the turn looked a lot more drastic than it really was.
I think if you watch the film from the "fixed" camera position and place the camera directly above Grizz's airplane turn on trails (make sure "use recorded views" is off) and play it through you'll see how he got the shot and why it looked so drastic from Shufflers point of view.
I just checked and i pulled 7.8 Gs briefly. :D
That gave me a real bad tummy ache, iirc.
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I see a pick as when you are already engaged, and get killed by some dweeb thats thinking "ok, so lets see..... ah, theres a guy in a fight low on the deck. I think I'll go screw over that rook down there (you are a rook) and steal his kill.". If you wait for him to die, and THEN engage the con with very low E, I have no problem with it. Oh sure, I may start cussing on 200, but give me time, or ask me if I would have done the same, and I'll generally be fine.
IMO, those picks aren't avoidable at times. If your down to around 1750 in a zoom climb, see a con diving in at 400mph, all you can do is say "oh crap" and hope he misses. Oh sure, you could go over the top early, but if you're trying to rope a con, then you offer him an easy shot.
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My observations:
-Pick= Nailing a victim at a point in time at which SA, odds and/or altitude preclude sufficient chance of retaliation in the victim's mind.
-I see very few good sticks complain about getting "picked". I think the better sticks blame themselves for putting their aircraft in the unfortunate time/place; they see it as a failure of SA on their part or simple desperation to get into a fight.
-SA begins before takeoff. If you are picked on the runway and call vulch or pick on 200, FAIL on you. It was a genuine WWII experience to get blowed up on takeoff roll. Personally, I never pick anyone until they are wheels up and off the airfield. (Less ack anyway :devil)
-You should expect to be picked in the MA. Nobody pays $15 to be your victim. You are responsible for your own survival.
-Some rides basically dictate "picker" strategies. (Pony, Dora etc) My all time fav ride is the P47D25.(Historical sentiment) A jug going into a co-alt merge with an Spixteen or K4 is pretty much an automatic E-disadvantage without an angles advantage. Alt is good, but sometimes Alt-F4 is what you end up doing...
-Folks that fly zekes or spits get a pretty easy win if they corner a picker type low. Just because you didn't have a chance on him while he kept his E doesn't mean he's any better off than you were when he's flopping around on the deck in his pony.
-Regardless of why you fly a certain aircraft (advantages, historical significance, looks) you gotta live w the consequences.
It was also a genuine WW2 experience to only get one death so all the advantages you could find to stay alive made a lot more sense. I expect to get picked in the MA if I'm low and slow in a fight with others. That being said, I'd be more ticked off at my team mate for not letting me finish off the fight or die if that's the case, while taking the easy way out to get a kill.
That's not strategy, that's lazy. Had a couple guys fighting against a few of us last night. One was in a 51D on the deck and the other in a P47D-11 and then a 39D on the deck. They were doing things in those birds that the majority of Ah drivers couldn't do. They got that way by testing the limits of those birds in spots that weren't advantageous. The great advantage of never dying is you get to try again if it doesn't work the first time. If you only fly to stay alive, you'll never find the limits of the bird you choose to fly for whatever reason. I guess for some of us that's the challenge.
But to each his own, as we do get unlimited lives :)
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"I'd be more ticked off at my team mate for not letting me finish off the fight or die if that's the case, while taking the easy way out to get a kill. That's not strategy, that's lazy."
Agree on the lazy point. If you come up on a situation where the friendly is clearly winning and you dive in for a kill, it's both a pick and a steal. As for not letting them finish you off...gotta say 90% of the time when a enemy is on a friendly's 6, I'm gonna take the bad guy down. The majority of guys will appreciate the clear and you keep a friendly around to return the favor. You as the other 10% (yes I made up that number) would have to say something.
"If you only fly to stay alive, you'll never find the limits of the bird you choose to fly for whatever reason. I guess for some of us that's the challenge."
Agree. (Though I've never truly enjoyed seeing parts of my plane fall off, unlike some people.)
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Agree. (Though I've never truly enjoyed seeing parts of my plane fall off, unlike some people.)
I have to admit it's a sickness. On the way to my only landing of the night. Blood all over the cockpit. Look at those cannon holes. Both engines messed up. Was great fun :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap1-20.jpg)
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Hell, change the oil and she'll be fine. :banana:
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All I got from the later posts is: I can't handle my self, so I pick and hope some one else picks who ever is on me. If those two don;t happen, I am dead :lol Ohhh, and if I pick you, its your fault for not being at 30K in a D9. These attitudes are doing wonders for this game, but I am glad some new guys are explaining to us that our SA sucks when we take on 2 or 3 guys at a time :aok
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this is also why i don't get pissed about it anymore.
Yes I don't get pissed either. Everyoine needs a kill sometime.
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I have to admit it's a sickness. On the way to my only landing of the night. Blood all over the cockpit. Look at those cannon holes. Both engines messed up. Was great fun :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap1-20.jpg)
The first step to recovery is acknowledging the problem. Get well soon and keep some band-aids handy in the meantime! :D
All I got from the later posts is: I can't handle my self, so I pick and hope some one else picks who ever is on me. If those two don;t happen, I am dead :lol Ohhh, and if I pick you, its your fault for not being at 30K in a D9. These attitudes are doing wonders for this game, but I am glad some new guys are explaining to us that our SA sucks when we take on 2 or 3 guys at a time :aok
:old:
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So... Let me see if I understand this thread correctly. To be a good AH citizen and not be a dirty stealer or picker, one must:
-Never engage an enemy that's fighting a friendly without asking the friendly if he's alright. If he says he is, you must ignore his bandit until their fight has been decided one way or the other, regardless of how many other bandits there may be in the area, regardless of the situation.
-Never come into a furball at alt. Starting from advantage is for the weak, and must be given up before engaging the enemy in honorable combat.
-Never keep a plane that's designed to be flown fast fast in a furball. Flying to your airframe's advantages is wrong, you must get low and slow regardless of what you're in to be a good person.
-Never wing up with people. Multiple plane tactics are just not fair, and should not be used.
-In fact, people should probably just stop flying in furballs altogether. Everybody should just pair up and go to their own section of map for honorable duels.
Does that about sum it up? :rolleyes:
Wiley.
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My bombers get picked all the time, I don't understand it? :rolleyes: It's all a matter of perspective.
Lose a head on, "you ho bag".
Bombed in a GV "Bomb Tard".
Target fixated, "Nice Pick turd".
It's my duty to supply kills for the community. :salute
Besides some are just natural pickers.......
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t190/moma2brooke71706/37.jpg)
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Sorry but I couldn't resist and had to use this.
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3839/0c226bf33730507e5aaa212.jpg)
Please continue with your pick discussion.
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So... Let me see if I understand this thread correctly. To be a good AH citizen and not be a dirty stealer or picker, one must:
-Never engage an enemy that's fighting a friendly without asking the friendly if he's alright. If he says he is, you must ignore his bandit until their fight has been decided one way or the other, regardless of how many other bandits there may be in the area, regardless of the situation.
-Never come into a furball at alt. Starting from advantage is for the weak, and must be given up before engaging the enemy in honorable combat.
-Never keep a plane that's designed to be flown fast fast in a furball. Flying to your airframe's advantages is wrong, you must get low and slow regardless of what you're in to be a good person.
-Never wing up with people. Multiple plane tactics are just not fair, and should not be used.
-In fact, people should probably just stop flying in furballs altogether. Everybody should just pair up and go to their own section of map for honorable duels.
Does that about sum it up? :rolleyes:
Wiley.
-Personally you pretty much hit the nail on the head, but run it by Dedalos for official ratification
-I noticed you've been a subscriber for less than 5 yrs and thus incapable of coherence, hence thou art scum. Such attitudes do wonders for the game... :lol
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So... Let me see if I understand this thread correctly. To be a good AH citizen and not be a dirty stealer or picker, one must:
-Never engage an enemy that's fighting a friendly without asking the friendly if he's alright. If he says he is, you must ignore his bandit until their fight has been decided one way or the other, regardless of how many other bandits there may be in the area, regardless of the situation.
-Never come into a furball at alt. Starting from advantage is for the weak, and must be given up before engaging the enemy in honorable combat.
-Never keep a plane that's designed to be flown fast fast in a furball. Flying to your airframe's advantages is wrong, you must get low and slow regardless of what you're in to be a good person.
-Never wing up with people. Multiple plane tactics are just not fair, and should not be used.
-In fact, people should probably just stop flying in furballs altogether. Everybody should just pair up and go to their own section of map for honorable duels.
Does that about sum it up? :rolleyes:
Wiley.
Sums up the fact that you don't get it.
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Sums up the fact that you don't get it.
sums up the fact that who cares about picking? if you get picked you had bad SA or bad ACM. you get ho'd, means you chose to do what your enemy was going to do. you see a head on and dont fire, means youre being dumb and risking your death. FORGET hos and picks, just have fun... :rolleyes:
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All I got from the later posts is: I can't handle my self, so I pick and hope some one else picks who ever is on me. If those two don;t happen, I am dead :lol Ohhh, and if I pick you, its your fault for not being at 30K in a D9. These attitudes are doing wonders for this game, but I am glad some new guys are explaining to us that our SA sucks when we take on 2 or 3 guys at a time :aok
You got hit the nail right on the head. Man whew I am glad you posted that really opens my eyes. It is just SO insightful.
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Sums up the fact that you don't get it.
Oh, please do help me get it. Where are the limits? If I'm co-alt with a couple guys having it out in a 1v1 with a half-dozen bandits below us climbing like mad in different directions, am I to dive under the 1v1 to go after one of the others, and trust the high bandit not to take a run at me because he's engaged in a 1v1? Or should I help the guy kill the high bandit so we are both in position to go after the rest of the group?
Oh wait... So I'm supposed to ask if he's ok. If he answers yes, I'm supposed to leave his bandit alone, move away from his 1v1, and find another fight. Or, am I supposed to dive under his fight and trust his bandit to leave me be, because that happens all the time in the MA?
Ok, maybe that's not so taxing. What if there are three pairs engaged in 1v1s above the mass of bandits? What if one of them wants help, but the others don't? Are you seriously expecting every person that comes into an area ask every engaged person if they're alright, then keep track of who's wanting help and who isn't?
Hmm... Maybe it's the justification I need for that second monitor to have an Excel window open in so I can keep track of who's expecting help and who isn't in the furball...
I need answers from all you wise people who know how everybody should be playing.
Wiley.
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Oh, please do help me get it. Where are the limits? If I'm co-alt with a couple guys having it out in a 1v1 with a half-dozen bandits below us climbing like mad in different directions, am I to dive under the 1v1 to go after one of the others, and trust the high bandit not to take a run at me because he's engaged in a 1v1? Or should I help the guy kill the high bandit so we are both in position to go after the rest of the group?
Oh wait... So I'm supposed to ask if he's ok. If he answers yes, I'm supposed to leave his bandit alone, move away from his 1v1, and find another fight. Or, am I supposed to dive under his fight and trust his bandit to leave me be, because that happens all the time in the MA?
Ok, maybe that's not so taxing. What if there are three pairs engaged in 1v1s above the mass of bandits? What if one of them wants help, but the others don't? Are you seriously expecting every person that comes into an area ask every engaged person if they're alright, then keep track of who's wanting help and who isn't?
Hmm... Maybe it's the justification I need for that second monitor to have an Excel window open in so I can keep track of who's expecting help and who isn't in the furball...
I need answers from all you wise people who know how everybody should be playing.
Wiley.
:rofl
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So... Let me see if I understand this thread correctly. To be a good AH citizen and not be a dirty stealer or picker, one must:
-Never engage an enemy that's fighting a friendly without asking the friendly if he's alright. If he says he is, you must ignore his bandit until their fight has been decided one way or the other, regardless of how many other bandits there may be in the area, regardless of the situation.
-Never come into a furball at alt. Starting from advantage is for the weak, and must be given up before engaging the enemy in honorable combat.
-Never keep a plane that's designed to be flown fast fast in a furball. Flying to your airframe's advantages is wrong, you must get low and slow regardless of what you're in to be a good person.
-Never wing up with people. Multiple plane tactics are just not fair, and should not be used.
-In fact, people should probably just stop flying in furballs altogether. Everybody should just pair up and go to their own section of map for honorable duels.
Does that about sum it up? :rolleyes:
Wiley.
:rofl Exactly sir!
Sums up the fact that you don't get it.
Here how I have come to be as a player of this game since I started in regards to this:
1. Didn't know that I didn't "get it."
2. Started to realize that I didn't "get it."
3. Pretended to "get it", and attempted to "get it" by performing the actions of those who did "get it".
4. Didn't have fun "getting it".
5. Realized that "getting it" isn't actually getting anything at all other than being killed endlessly by newbs, which is not fun.
6. Decided that "getting it" is doing whatever you want to have fun.
7. Learned personally, that "getting it" is killing as many bad guys as I can without being killed by them.
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:rofl Exactly sir!
Here how I have come to be as a player of this game since I started in regards to this:
1. Didn't know that I didn't "get it."
2. Started to realize that I didn't "get it."
3. Pretended to "get it", and attempted to "get it" by performing the actions of those who did "get it".
4. Didn't have fun "getting it".
5. Realized that "getting it" isn't actually getting anything at all other than being killed endlessly by newbs, which is not fun.
6. Decided that "getting it" is doing whatever you want to have fun.
7. Learned personally, that "getting it" is killing as many bad guys as I can without being killed by them.
this is a game of war. kill or be killed. although with the exception of letting a con fly home hurt, everything is fair game and expect to receive the same
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although with the exception of letting a con fly home hurt, everything is fair game and expect to receive the same
Why? Because he has a wife and kids back at his cartoon home? :lol
Kill them all! Wounded birds are easy targets, so are jeeps and hikers.
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this is a game of war. kill or be killed. although with the exception of letting a con fly home hurt, everything is fair game and expect to receive the same
Why does that get special exemption? I mean, if I'm in a good mood and it was a particularly good fight, sure I'll let the guy go, but why should that be expected? What if his wounds came from HOing 4 of your buddies? Does he get to go home and feel good about his leet flying skills?
Or, my personal favorite, 'I took off with 25% fuel so I'd be at minimum weight to maximize my maneuverability. You have to let me go home when I'm low fuel to land! It's fairsies!
Wiley.
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Hmm... Maybe it's the justification I need for that second monitor to have an Excel window open in so I can keep track of who's expecting help and who isn't in the furball...
:rofl
If you look at Corky's screenshot on page 8 you will notice a laptop on his rear dash....
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well wiley i tell you what, you are free to boom in and pick my opponent in a 1v1 without so much as a by your leave and i am free to make it a point to hound you for the rest of the night.
ever tried to shoot at someone when a friendly makes it a point to spend all his time blocking your shots? booming in between you and your intended victim just as your firing can be rather comical......well not for you, but for me and every person that gets your proxies its a hell of a laugh! especially when i keep claiming your kill on 200.
kill shooter can be such a useful tool when trying to teach countrymen a lesson.
and in case you are doubting my willingness to be that dweebish, i have done this before to killstealing A&#*Y^&S who cant mind their own business. so if you wanna say its my $15.00 and ill play as i chose....well remember i pay my $15.00, too and i can play as i want to also.
oh, and by the by those scenarios you described above, well they all sound like it was a furball likely from a base attack/defence going on and the pick you chose to take from your perch was in the middle alt of it. now as i recall everyone thus far agrees that in a the mix of a furball base attack/defence then all is fair.
in case you were describing multiple individuals flying and fighting and minding their own business having fun......well ain't you just the greatest team player by butting in and jacking kills from those who put in the work without asking or being asked by the people who are having fun. how rude of them to be having fun without you! without even inviting you!!!!!
All Ded and others have asked for is some respect and common courtesy from others, and have explained their own personal standards of play. if you chose to play in a different manner then that is your choice to make, do as you want. but dont be surprised when people who have played this game for a long time regard you as a tard and ignore your presence when you are near them in the MA's.
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So... Let me see if I understand this thread correctly. To be a good AH citizen and not be a dirty stealer or picker, one must:
-Never engage an enemy that's fighting a friendly without asking the friendly if he's alright. If he says he is, you must ignore his bandit until their fight has been decided one way or the other, regardless of how many other bandits there may be in the area, regardless of the situation.
-Never come into a furball at alt. Starting from advantage is for the weak, and must be given up before engaging the enemy in honorable combat.
-Never keep a plane that's designed to be flown fast fast in a furball. Flying to your airframe's advantages is wrong, you must get low and slow regardless of what you're in to be a good person.
-Never wing up with people. Multiple plane tactics are just not fair, and should not be used.
-In fact, people should probably just stop flying in furballs altogether. Everybody should just pair up and go to their own section of map for honorable duels.
Does that about sum it up? :rolleyes:
Wiley.
Nop, you are just going to extremes since there is no good argument for the behavior we are talking about. No one said anything like what you described above but I guess this is the best you can do?
Now, take everything you wrote and change it so instead of "never" it says "If you always" and you may begin to get the point. You guys can make these kinds of posts all you want. All you are showing us is how badly you don't get it. :aok
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oh, and by the by those scenarios you described above, well they all sound like it was a furball likely from a base attack/defence going on and the pick you chose to take from your perch was in the middle alt of it. now as i recall everyone thus far agrees that in a the mix of a furball base attack/defence then all is fair.
Okay, when does it go from a series of 1v1s to a furball? 3 planes on a side? 5 planes? What if there's 1 friendly engaged in a 1v1 above an enemy base and 7 planes lift? Dammit, I need to know where the line is!
What if one of the seven (or all seven of them) is now coming to engage the friendly in the 1v1? Is it alright to engage him? What if the bandit he's currently engaged with goes offensive on me? Am I allowed to fire back, or would that be wrong? So many unanswered questions. Sounds like everybody else should just stay in the tower to avoid confusion if you guys are having your 1v1s. Maybe you guys need to make some mention on the country channel that you're involved in a 1v1 at a certain location, and all must not engage your chosen enemy so we can all keep up to date with your actions and all be good polite AH players.
I'm not talking about an established furball here, I'm talking about when the multiple planes from both sides start seeping into range of your 1v1. Why is it everyone else's responsibility to make sure to leave your duel alone when it may have started with only the two of you in the area, but there are now a half dozen planes from either side engaged with one another in the area? Isn't that just the teeniest bit selfish and unreasonable? It's a multiplayer game, not two player.
I'm also not talking about being up alone and happening upon two guys who are the only planes within a sector. That's obvious. My point is, the fluid nature of the game means it can only take seconds for people from both sides to appear and be all over either side of a 1v1. Expecting everybody to just go 'Oh, those two planes (out of the seven from each side I can see at the moment) are clearly in a 1v1 and all must leave them be.' is just not realistic to expect.
Wiley.
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Okay, when does it go from a series of 1v1s to a furball? 3 planes on a side? 5 planes? What if there's 1 friendly engaged in a 1v1 above an enemy base and 7 planes lift? Dammit, I need to know where the line is!
What if one of the seven (or all seven of them) is now coming to engage the friendly in the 1v1? Is it alright to engage him? What if the bandit he's currently engaged with goes offensive on me? Am I allowed to fire back, or would that be wrong? So many unanswered questions. Sounds like everybody else should just stay in the tower to avoid confusion if you guys are having your 1v1s. Maybe you guys need to make some mention on the country channel that you're involved in a 1v1 at a certain location, and all must not engage your chosen enemy so we can all keep up to date with your actions and all be good polite AH players.
I'm not talking about an established furball here, I'm talking about when the multiple planes from both sides start seeping into range of your 1v1. Why is it everyone else's responsibility to make sure to leave your duel alone when it may have started with only the two of you in the area, but there are now a half dozen planes from either side engaged with one another in the area? Isn't that just the teeniest bit selfish and unreasonable? It's a multiplayer game, not two player.
I'm also not talking about being up alone and happening upon two guys who are the only planes within a sector. That's obvious. My point is, the fluid nature of the game means it can only take seconds for people from both sides to appear and be all over either side of a 1v1. Expecting everybody to just go 'Oh, those two planes (out of the seven from each side I can see at the moment) are clearly in a 1v1 and all must leave them be.' is just not realistic to expect.
Wiley.
+1, couldn't have said better.
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Okay, when does it go from a series of 1v1s to a furball? 3 planes on a side? 5 planes? What if there's 1 friendly engaged in a 1v1 above an enemy base and 7 planes lift? Dammit, I need to know where the line is!
What if one of the seven (or all seven of them) is now coming to engage the friendly in the 1v1? Is it alright to engage him? What if the bandit he's currently engaged with goes offensive on me? Am I allowed to fire back, or would that be wrong? So many unanswered questions. Sounds like everybody else should just stay in the tower to avoid confusion if you guys are having your 1v1s. Maybe you guys need to make some mention on the country channel that you're involved in a 1v1 at a certain location, and all must not engage your chosen enemy so we can all keep up to date with your actions and all be good polite AH players.
I'm not talking about an established furball here, I'm talking about when the multiple planes from both sides start seeping into range of your 1v1. Why is it everyone else's responsibility to make sure to leave your duel alone when it may have started with only the two of you in the area, but there are now a half dozen planes from either side engaged with one another in the area? Isn't that just the teeniest bit selfish and unreasonable? It's a multiplayer game, not two player.
I'm also not talking about being up alone and happening upon two guys who are the only planes within a sector. That's obvious. My point is, the fluid nature of the game means it can only take seconds for people from both sides to appear and be all over either side of a 1v1. Expecting everybody to just go 'Oh, those two planes (out of the seven from each side I can see at the moment) are clearly in a 1v1 and all must leave them be.' is just not realistic to expect.
Wiley.
New to the boards, but wise in knowledge! :aok
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kill shooter can be such a useful tool when trying to teach countrymen a lesson.
<snicker> Bring it chumley, bring it! </snicker> :rofl
now as i recall everyone thus far agrees that in a the mix of a furball base attack/defence then all is fair.
You, they, everyone ... can agree to whatever you like. If you are in MY AIRSPACE ... and I can get "a good tone" ... you're going down. ;-)
I don't care if you are in a plane, dead engined and dead stick, smoking and full of holes and outta parts, ... or in a chute. Stay in the air in my airspace, and I'm gunning ya. Period.
but dont be surprised when people who have played this game for a long time regard you as a tard and ignore your presence when you are near them in the MA's.
You're not actually gonna make me snicker and chuckle out out loud again, are you? :rofl :rofl :rofl
I'll saved you the bother right now. I could give a rats hairy puckered what all the high and mighty chest thumpers think. ;-)
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And another thing- Several of you have mentioned 'if it's a squaddie, I'm in to clear him.' Isn't that kind of unfair to the bandit if he's got no squaddies around him? Why is it ok to pick your squaddie's 1v1, but not just another countryman's? Or is the point that it's rude to pick a 1v1 from a countryman, and to hell with the bandit's feelings?
Wiley.
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well after all of your multiple questions ill respond with a couple of questions, that if you use the reasonable answers as a guideline may answer all of your questions for you.
if there are multiple uppers or encroachers on a 1v1 do you feel that means you must be the one to be the guy that interferes with the on going 1v1 or could you instead engage the nearest of the new comers?
would you rather have a fight of your own or would you like it if others continued to engage targets on your 12 O'clock while leaving the newly arrived enemy to engage your 6?
if the enemy engaged in the 1v1 engages you first do you think maybe you got close enough to him for him to view you as an encroacher and a threat to him so he acted preemptively?
do you think if you had gone around instead of through the on going fight that the enemy would have been inclined to break off his fight and giving his 6 to the enemy he was already fighting to persue you instead?
do you really get so many requests for help that it really gets that confusing for you to remember who needs it when you are encountering a 1v1, a 2v2 or even a 3v3?
if there is 1 friendly and 1 enemy engaged in a fight with other enemy not currently engaged with the friendly but in the area, is the fight still a 1v1 at that moment?
do you think anyone, including you enjoys having their 12 O'clock cleared, or would they find that shooting down the bad guy themselves was so much more gratifying?
if you answer the questions honestly you will find that the fight is the fun and that you should let others have the fun they are hoping for as you yourself would want for others to do for you. Wiley my only point is that if you ask on country and dont get a responce then leave the man to his fate and go get you some fresh!
have fun and play your way just try not to rob others of their fun their way whenever possible. (even the red guys need fun too)
<<S>> and ill see you in the cartoon airways
Spite, your lack of verbal skill i am sure is only superseded by your dweebish and tardly flying style, so i will not bother to engage you in conversation further than to say that if we are flying on the same country and near each other i will make it my nights ambition to "BRING IT" just for you. well i will that is if i bother to remember you. if you happen to see me on then be sure to remind me, maybe ill even give you lessons in engrish while we are at it.
Grizz you really need to stop encouraging the natives, next thing you'll be doing is bragging about committing other acts of dweebery like killing jeeps in a 262 and whacking hikers and........oh, wait.....ummmmm never mind.
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He's always doing his hair because he is jealous that Kappa always compliments mine and ignores his.
That reminds me, Krupinski, if you are reading this, scratch my availability for the bracket duel on Thursday, I'm going to be washing my hair that night.
How long can it take to was 11 hairs? :lol Ok, 23 if you count the ear hairs too.
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if there are multiple uppers or encroachers on a 1v1 do you feel that means you must be the one to be the guy that interferes with the on going 1v1 or could you instead engage the nearest of the new comers?
Okay, let's start here. I realize it's simple to say 'well, you should leave the 1v1 be' and it sounds all good and polite and honorable, but let's look at the mechanics of this. Let's take two different scenarios that could occur from this simple statement.
Scenario 1- I happen upon a friendly in a 1v1. I'm within 1k alt either way, I'm cruising at speed. There's another bandit headed in the general direction of the 1v1. He's also co-alt, cruising at speed. It's fairly clear-cut at this point, right? I engage the second con. We both have our 1v1. Everything's fairsies, everybody's happy, right? At least until somebody gets shot down, now there's a 2v1. Or, if the second bandit is treating it now as a 2v2 and trying to bag the friendly, who is being dragged by the bandit he's in the 1v1 with.
Scenario 2- I happen upon a friendly in a 1v1. The center of their engagement is a couple thousand feet above me, maybe a bit more. Their vertical maneuvers generally put them low enough that if I maneuvered properly, I could take a shot. Without too much trouble, the bandit in the 1v1 could set up for me and take a shot on the way by. There's another bandit headed in the general direction of the 1v1 from the opposite side of the two engaged planes. He's co-alt with me.
Why am I expected to put myself at a disadvantage to the bandit that's engaged in the 1v1 and hope (probably vainly) he doesn't capitalize on me going by on the way to the second con? Typically now you're engaged in a 2v2, not a couple of 1v1s. If the two bandits fight it as a 2v2 instead of a 1v1, either me or the friendly is going to get saddled up on and creamed.
Should I respect the 1v1 and pull off, and let the friendly whine on 200 about how he was picked by the second bandit? And/Or get pissy because I 'hung him out to dry' because I left him to his 1v1? This is also assuming perfect SA. Maybe I was moving into the area away from an unfriendly horde that's headed this way 6k behind me, and my attention's split, so all I see is two enemies, one friendly in front of me. There's a freaking legion of other possibilities here, and we're only looking at a scenario with 4 planes all off by their lonesome.
do you think if you had gone around instead of through the on going fight that the enemy would have been inclined to break off his fight and giving his 6 to the enemy he was already fighting to persue you instead?
Okay, what if I keep my distance and go around and the second bandit comes straight in on the friendly to saddle up? Because I was trying to be polite and respect the 1v1, I'm out of position to save the poor schmuck and he gets pissy because I hung him out to dry.
I'm sorry, but if there's more than the 2 of you within icon range, I just don't think it's feasible to have the expectation that everybody on the battlefield clears out of your way like the main fight scene in a movie.
do you really get so many requests for help that it really gets that confusing for you to remember who needs it when you are encountering a 1v1, a 2v2 or even a 3v3?
It's not that it comes up that often, because frankly the arena doesn't work this way. There's the 'if it's red, it's dead' mentality, and I think the majority works in that framework. My point is, if just one guy in that 2v2 or 3v3 say, 'Guys, leave the 109 alone, he's MINE ALL MINE!' and his fight is not 10,000 feet below the rest of you, why is it suddenly up to all the rest of you to concede to his wishes, when the bandits might not be playing by the same set of rules, and you have no way of figuring that out other than by their actions, and the fact that things happen so quickly in this game, they can take advantage of a couple seconds of decision making on your part to leap in and drill the friendly who you're leaving to do his thing. And more often than not, now the guy's whining on country because nobody called his six.
Never mind the fact that it's now taxing your SA to be in the middle of a multiple-con dogfight and go 'Oh, that's his 109 that he's declared as MINE ALL MINE and I'm not supposed to engage it. *dodge the con I'm currently engaged with* Hmm... the 109 seems to be saddling up on me OH F-' 'You have been shot down by the 109 that was MINE ALL MINE.'
It seems to me that the duelist advocates are one of two things- Either your SA is so poor, you can only handle interacting with one con at once or your SA is so freaking off the charts awesome, that you can manage to keep track of your 1v1 when there are ten other planes in the area. The rest of us may not have that capability. Rudimentary IFF might be all the other people around you are capable of in a multiple on multiple engagement.
I know for myself, I get overwhelmed if there's more than 2 bandits interacting with me. And that's on a good day, and assuming they're not working together all that well.
Just to be clear, I agree, coming in from 10k higher to pick the only available bandit from in front of a friendly is dweebery. No argument there. But when other planes start to appear on the horizon, I think some people have unreasonable expectations of the people around them as far as SA and the fact that a moving battle is rolling right over top of your designated 1v1 space.
Wiley.
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:rofl
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Grizz HOs.
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If people want unmolested 1v1 gameplay then they need to get the heck out of MA's and go the DA. As soon as a player presses the button launching him/her into the the arena they become a legitimate target. That is all there is to it.
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No matter what is said or what is done. Folks in the game will be just like folks in real life.
Some care, some don't. Many have a different idea of right and wrong. Why the prisons are full of innocent folks..... just ask most any prisoner.
I open a door for a lady... many don't. I'll even make sure I'm not letting the door loose in some guys face..... many don't.
Some think the world owes them something..... some work for what they want.
It's just the way of the world...... make of yourself what you will.
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Yup. And do you conduct yourself as though the guy in front of you will not let the door close in your face at all times? If you do, just how often do you break your nose on closing doors?
Expecting everyone to play by your own self-imposed rules is delusional at best.
Wiley.
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Wiley,
I have a question.
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No matter what is said or what is done. Folks in the game will be just like folks in real life.
Some care, some don't. Many have a different idea of right and wrong. Why the prisons are full of innocent folks..... just ask most any prisoner.
I open a door for a lady... many don't. I'll even make sure I'm not letting the door loose in some guys face..... many don't.
Some think the world owes them something..... some work for what they want.
It's just the way of the world...... make of yourself what you will.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/high_horse.jpg)
Who decides whats right or wrong Shuffler is it you? Is it Dedalos? Where is the aces high etiquette manual? Who wrote this manual? Why should we follow this line of thinking? What is gained from following a certain set of "rules" in a video game? Oh pray tell shuffler. Lead us boorish un-washed masses from the way of darkness to the way of light. Be our Sherpa of the Everest that is Aces High.
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No matter what is said or what is done. Folks in the game will be just like folks in real life.
Some care, some don't. Many have a different idea of right and wrong. Why the prisons are full of innocent folks..... just ask most any prisoner.
I open a door for a lady... many don't. I'll even make sure I'm not letting the door loose in some guys face..... many don't.
Some think the world owes them something..... some work for what they want.
It's just the way of the world...... make of yourself what you will.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I see the parallels now! Anyone who picks, tries to stay alive, and plays the game in what you consider to be unfair and dweeby, is probably a hooligan in real life. Oh my god my side hurts, thanks for that laugh Shuffles. :aok
The greatest irony of it all is that you are commonly observed flying in exactly the same dweeby style that you bleed your heart against here on the bbs.
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Yup. And do you conduct yourself as though the guy in front of you will not let the door close in your face at all times? If you do, just how often do you break your nose on closing doors?
Expecting everyone to play by your own self-imposed rules is delusional at best.
Wiley.
well, i'm really just jumping in here for fun. I think most people expect a certain amount civility in life. If someone lets a door slam in my face, I'd think he was a "insert your word here, potato?" Someone else might jump on a megaphone and call him a flatulate sniffer for all to hear. In the end it really doesn't matter. Even though everyone in the area might think he's a jerk, he might think he is very civil...but he doesn't get to tell everyone what he is, everyone decides what he is....though opinions will vary. Also, I would think if no one ever told anyone else what they think is social acceptable, how would anyone be aware there might be an issue? Who came up with etiquett anyway, I would like to find him to strike the whole elbow on the table thing. Of course there is always the grey area....at what distance do you stop holding the door? What if you really have to pee? What if you let the door slam, but say sorry just after? What if you are slamming the door on someone who just slammed it on you. Oh god, my head. Guess we are back a square one.
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Yep. Hasn't been a fortnight since I got vulched by Shuffler himself. Hmmm...
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Go ahead, SunBat. What's your question?
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Are you a coyote?
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Expecting everyone to play by your own self-imposed rules is delusional at best.
Wiley.
i agree with this statement absolutely, but i also dont expect everyone else i encounter in my life to act in a manner that i do either. i am of the understanbding that people are who they are and will do what ever it is that suits them at the moment. but i do not use that as an excuse to be the one to do it first just because the other guy might
i am generally not foolish so i will do my best to put myself in a position that will protect me from the actions of others in life, but i do this without breaking my own personal moral code or standards. now this is only a game, and i do not equate a game to real life, but one thing i have learned through my years is that if you act like an a-hole in a game then you are likely an a-hole in real life. standards of fair play and good sportmanship tend to cross the virtual barrier from real life to toon land and back again.
i cannot argue against every "what if" scenario you may invent, all i can say is POOPHAPPENS! roll with it and try to have fun without acting in an unsportsmanlike manner. now yes you will always have those that no matter what you do will cry foul, but really who cares. people whine, its what they do best. if i know that i did my best to act according to my own standards then i really dont care what anyone else says.
now for honesties sake i will say that i have the advantage of sucking at this game enough that score really doesnt mean poop to me. how many times i die is irrelevant to me, hell i find it funny to continue to up from capped bases to keep the vulchtards low and hungry until assistance arrives from another base with alt and advantage. so if i make a mistake in judgment and choose to fly past a 1v1 and then get sucker shot by the bad guy i just past up a shot on, well then that was my mistake. the bright side is that there is fresh coffee in the tower and i get to get a brand new shinny clean areo-plane. in addition i get to fly back to the engagement enjoying the warm heart i get when i know that i lived up to my own standards. :D
live up to your own standards, but dont expect roses from everyone when you get involved where you were not asked too.
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I'm with Wiley and the others all the way here. Sure, if a friendly is saddled up I want to let him get the kill, but if you up in the MA you should not expect nice chivalrous 1v1 duels, there is at least one other arena for that, and enough folks aren't looking for the 1v1 duel that the chivalrous among the rest can't count on it.
And if I read Shuffler right (and not the way everyone else seems to be), folks are going to whine no matter what you do, so just ignore the whines. Is that right Shuffler? If so, I agree, it's their problem, not mine.
As pointed out, people will scream pick/HO/vulch in blatantly incorrect circumstances, so why worry?
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Sunbat- Yes.
Flotsom- Understand, I'm partly devil's advocating here as well. I don't generally clear peoples' 12, I don't generally horn in on what I perceive as a 1v1 if it's of no consequence to me how it comes out, etc etc. I clear my squaddies unless they wave me off. I enjoy multiple on multiple engagements. That's where I get my fun, is working with a wingman or my squad in a crowd. I generally fly to survive to a certain degree, but I'm also fairly aggressive.
I just don't think that expecting an open arena that is side versus side to basically stop what it's doing to specifically avoid horning in on a 1v1 is reasonable and in a way, I would almost say it's rude to expect everyone else to bend around it.
Wiley.
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Sunbat- Yes.
Flotsom- Understand, I'm partly devil's advocating here as well. I don't generally clear peoples' 12, I don't generally horn in on what I perceive as a 1v1 if it's of no consequence to me how it comes out, etc etc. I clear my squaddies unless they wave me off. I enjoy multiple on multiple engagements. That's where I get my fun, is working with a wingman or my squad in a crowd. I generally fly to survive to a certain degree, but I'm also fairly aggressive.
I just don't think that expecting an open arena that is side versus side to basically stop what it's doing to specifically avoid horning in on a 1v1 is reasonable and in a way, I would almost say it's rude to expect everyone else to bend around it.
Wiley.
KK, understood and in that light, agreed.
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Why? Because he has a wife and kids back at his cartoon home? :lol
Kill them all! Wounded birds are easy targets, so are jeeps and hikers.
its my personal opinion. i think of it as strategic not honorable. by letting that con leave it means one less con you deal with sooner than later
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Grizz you really need to stop encouraging the natives, next thing you'll be doing is bragging about committing other acts of dweebery like killing jeeps in a 262 and whacking hikers and........oh, wait.....ummmmm never mind.
I have never bragged about killing jeeps or hikers, but I do kill a jeep pretty much anytime I see one and laugh my bellybutton off afterward. I also shoot recreational skydivers who are in my airspace. I have even been known to kill hikers/mountain climbers/rock climbers too that are hiking up my mountains! Pretty much anything that is in my airspace I am going to kill. I will even occasionally fly through the ack to kill someone landing because no one escapes dammit! :lol
its my personal opinion. i think of it as strategic not honorable. by letting that con leave it means one less con you deal with sooner than later
I would rather deal with that con again asap so I can kill him again.
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The post from grizz reminded me about last nite. I was rtb with half a wing and a F4U dove in on me from way up. He seen I was hurt and turned around and left. I thought that was pretty cool.
<S> whoever u were.
It'd be a safe bet that it wasn't Grizz :lol
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The post from grizz reminded me about last nite. I was rtb with half a wing and a F4U dove in on me from way up. He seen I was hurt and turned around and left. I thought that was pretty cool.
<S> whoever u were.
It'd be a safe bet that it wasn't Grizz :lol
no it was Grizz!!!!! but he had wasted all of his ammo straifing hikers out picnicing in their jeeps. he was hoping to buzz you and scare you enough to make you auger so he could get the proxy!!
yes class take it from a Muppet....GRIZZ IS THAT EVIL AND DIABOLICAL!!!!!!
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Okay, when does it go from a series of 1v1s to a furball? 3 planes on a side? 5 planes? What if there's 1 friendly engaged in a 1v1 above an enemy base and 7 planes lift? Dammit, I need to know where the line is!
What if one of the seven (or all seven of them) is now coming to engage the friendly in the 1v1? Is it alright to engage him? What if the bandit he's currently engaged with goes offensive on me? Am I allowed to fire back, or would that be wrong? So many unanswered questions. Sounds like everybody else should just stay in the tower to avoid confusion if you guys are having your 1v1s. Maybe you guys need to make some mention on the country channel that you're involved in a 1v1 at a certain location, and all must not engage your chosen enemy so we can all keep up to date with your actions and all be good polite AH players.
I'm not talking about an established furball here, I'm talking about when the multiple planes from both sides start seeping into range of your 1v1. Why is it everyone else's responsibility to make sure to leave your duel alone when it may have started with only the two of you in the area, but there are now a half dozen planes from either side engaged with one another in the area? Isn't that just the teeniest bit selfish and unreasonable? It's a multiplayer game, not two player.
I'm also not talking about being up alone and happening upon two guys who are the only planes within a sector. That's obvious. My point is, the fluid nature of the game means it can only take seconds for people from both sides to appear and be all over either side of a 1v1. Expecting everybody to just go 'Oh, those two planes (out of the seven from each side I can see at the moment) are clearly in a 1v1 and all must leave them be.' is just not realistic to expect.
Wiley.
waaaay back, when i was trying the different spitfires, i took a spixteen up one night. dropped into a 8 or 9 vs 3. of all of the red guys, i'd say that at least 6 of em formed a conga line behind my spixteen. it was pretty funny really. :rofl
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Are you a coyote?
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
thankfully i wasn't drinking anything. :rofl :rofl
now the bigger question..........is he a soooooper geeeeenius?
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Here how I have come to be as a player of this game since I started in regards to this:
1. Didn't know that I didn't "get it."
2. Started to realize that I didn't "get it."
3. Pretended to "get it", and attempted to "get it" by performing the actions of those who did "get it".
4. Didn't have fun "getting it".
5. Realized that "getting it" isn't actually getting anything at all other than being killed endlessly by newbs, which is not fun.
6. Decided that "getting it" is doing whatever you want to have fun.
7. Learned personally, that "getting it" is killing as many bad guys as I can without being killed by them.
All it means is you unlearned it Grizz.
I don't suppose you remember the first time we fought cartoon airplanes way back when do you? If you take the time to finish reading this, you'll understand why I do.
You were a 38 dweeb in a squad that was known at the time for nothing but ganging, hording, picking, and excuse making. You were floating above the furball picking, when Zap, Pawz and I wandered in low in the old 38s. Pawz got ya and you came on 200 whining about Pawz HO'ing you and getting ganged etc. Pawz hadn't but it was the usual excuse of someone who was too worried about his score, landing his kills and proving he was a cartoon airplane hero.
I PM'd you and said relax, we're just looking for a good fight. You didn't buy it initially but then you seemed to notice we weren't picking you, weren't HO'ing you and we weren't ganging you. I then suggested we move it north for some co-alt 1 v 1 stuff. You hesitated but then you agreed and we had some good fights, 38G to your 38J. I got you the first time and then we had two in a row where we collided and had a good laugh. I had to leave after that but I believe those fights continued 1 v 1 with Zap and Pawz. You seemed to have relaxed and enjoyed the fights as you figured out we meant what we said in that we were just having fun.
Now for the reason I remember. Right after this your name came up in a discussion in the DFC forum. At that point I was involved with it. Guys, some who wear the same squad tag as you now, were saying you were essentially all of what I posted above. At that point I jumped in and explained that it was not the case in my opinion. After talking to you that night I said that you seemed to want to learn the ACM stuff, that you seemed like a good guy and that you were looking for the fight more then the name in lights. I told them you had a chance to be a really good stick too if I remember right. I'm sure the thread is still there way back in the DFC forum if you'd like to check. I also invited you into SAPP as you were a 38 dweeb at the time. You knew then what the 38 guys were about as it's written very clearly and sticky'd there.
Not too long afterwards you ended up in the Muppets. I remember asking one of them at the time how that happened as you seemed to be on their #$#@ list. Seems like the story at the time was you telling them it was all an act and that you really did get it.
And now as your list describes you are back to where you started. Terribly ironic to me and I must admit I'm a bit disappointed in myself as generally I feel like I can read people better then in this case.
The other irony to me is the D-11 and P39D driver I mentioned previously is a member of your old squad. And there he was, flying and dying on the deck for the fun of the fight. Seems like he gets it.
But you are right. Fly it the way you want to have fun. Your approach belongs to you. Your approach and mine will never be the same clearly. There is no right way. Both do have an impact on the game however.
Sunbat you taking notes? I'll await your commentary.
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All it means is you unlearned it Grizz.
I don't suppose you remember the first time we fought cartoon airplanes way back when do you? If you take the time to finish reading this, you'll understand why I do.
You were a 38 dweeb in a squad that was known at the time for nothing but ganging, hording, picking, and excuse making. You were floating above the furball picking, when Zap, Pawz and I wandered in low in the old 38s. Pawz got ya and you came on 200 whining about Pawz HO'ing you and getting ganged etc. Pawz hadn't but it was the usual excuse of someone who was too worried about his score, landing his kills and proving he was a cartoon airplane hero.
I PM'd you and said relax, we're just looking for a good fight. You didn't buy it initially but then you seemed to notice we weren't picking you, weren't HO'ing you and we weren't ganging you. I then suggested we move it north for some co-alt 1 v 1 stuff. You hesitated but then you agreed and we had some good fights, 38G to your 38J. I got you the first time and then we had two in a row where we collided and had a good laugh. I had to leave after that but I believe those fights continued 1 v 1 with Zap and Pawz. You seemed to have relaxed and enjoyed the fights as you figured out we meant what we said in that we were just having fun.
Now for the reason I remember. Right after this your name came up in a discussion in the DFC forum. At that point I was involved with it. Guys, some who wear the same squad tag as you now, were saying you were essentially all of what I posted above. At that point I jumped in and explained that it was not the case in my opinion. After talking to you that night I said that you seemed to want to learn the ACM stuff, that you seemed like a good guy and that you were looking for the fight more then the name in lights. I told them you had a chance to be a really good stick too if I remember right. I'm sure the thread is still there way back in the DFC forum if you'd like to check. I also invited you into SAPP as you were a 38 dweeb at the time. You knew then what the 38 guys were about as it's written very clearly and sticky'd there.
Not too long afterwards you ended up in the Muppets. I remember asking one of them at the time how that happened as you seemed to be on their #$#@ list. Seems like the story at the time was you telling them it was all an act and that you really did get it.
And now as your list describes you are back to where you started. Terribly ironic to me and I must admit I'm a bit disappointed in myself as generally I feel like I can read people better then in this case.
The other irony to me is the D-11 and P39D driver I mentioned previously is a member of your old squad. And there he was, flying and dying on the deck for the fun of the fight. Seems like he gets it.
But you are right. Fly it the way you want to have fun. Your approach belongs to you. Your approach and mine will never be the same clearly. There is no right way. Both do have an impact on the game however.
Sunbat you taking notes? I'll await your commentary.
who are you, and what did you do with guppy?
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All it means is you unlearned it Grizz.
I don't suppose you remember the first time we fought cartoon airplanes way back when do you? If you take the time to finish reading this, you'll understand why I do.
You were a 38 dweeb in a squad that was known at the time for nothing but ganging, hording, picking, and excuse making. You were floating above the furball picking, when Zap, Pawz and I wandered in low in the old 38s. Pawz got ya and you came on 200 whining about Pawz HO'ing you and getting ganged etc. Pawz hadn't but it was the usual excuse of someone who was too worried about his score, landing his kills and proving he was a cartoon airplane hero.
I PM'd you and said relax, we're just looking for a good fight. You didn't buy it initially but then you seemed to notice we weren't picking you, weren't HO'ing you and we weren't ganging you. I then suggested we move it north for some co-alt 1 v 1 stuff. You hesitated but then you agreed and we had some good fights, 38G to your 38J. I got you the first time and then we had two in a row where we collided and had a good laugh. I had to leave after that but I believe those fights continued 1 v 1 with Zap and Pawz. You seemed to have relaxed and enjoyed the fights as you figured out we meant what we said in that we were just having fun.
Fairly accurate account of history, yep. I actually played a couple tours where all I did was fly low and mindlessly furball, completely devoid of my surroundings, and got killed most of the time. It was fun for a little while, but I got tired of getting picked, dying continuously, and spending most of my time flying to a fight on autopilot (To each their own). Now I fly my style, which is aggro and going for maximum lethality while minimizing death. The picture you paint of me is misleading, implying that I'm a timid picker, when in actuality I use every tool I have in my tool box, which includes picking, fighting outnumbered, clawing my way out of precarious situations, fighting any 1v1 I can get lucky enough to find, pretty much anything. It's a lot of fun to put the entire package together to become a good dogfighter. You should try it, your squaddies certainly do when you aren't online.
Now for the reason I remember. Right after this your name came up in a discussion in the DFC forum. At that point I was involved with it. Guys, some who wear the same squad tag as you now, were saying you were essentially all of what I posted above. At that point I jumped in and explained that it was not the case in my opinion. After talking to you that night I said that you seemed to want to learn the ACM stuff, that you seemed like a good guy and that you were looking for the fight more then the name in lights. I told them you had a chance to be a really good stick too if I remember right. I'm sure the thread is still there way back in the DFC forum if you'd like to check. I also invited you into SAPP as you were a 38 dweeb at the time. You knew then what the 38 guys were about as it's written very clearly and sticky'd there.
Not too long afterwards you ended up in the Muppets. I remember asking one of them at the time how that happened as you seemed to be on their #$#@ list. Seems like the story at the time was you telling them it was all an act and that you really did get it.
The Muppets were never a squadron that flew around on the deck getting killed endlessly by gangs of bad guys. Granted there have been plenty of members that enjoy doing that and all the power to them, but the squadron was never about that. I have actually been told by older muppets that the way I approach the game is almost identical to how Fester, one of the founders did. Going for kill streaks, high Kill/death ratios, flying jets on the deck w/kappa (The original founder), k4ing, tater aiming, etc. Although, I will admit at the time I joined the muppets, the squadron had taken on the identity of being a squadron that flew around on the deck getting killed by gangs and then talking serious smack (whining perhaps?) on 200.
As for DFC? A hearty, apathetic yawwwnnnnn for that affiliation.
And now as your list describes you are back to where you started. Terribly ironic to me and I must admit I'm a bit disappointed in myself as generally I feel like I can read people better then in this case.
Where I started, I was a timid picker with a limited tool box. There were many types of situations that I got myself into where my only recourse was running. After logging literally thousands of duels (many more than you I'm sure), fighting a few tours at significant disadvantage, and learning tater planes, I was able to take my game to another level. So I would hardly say I am back to where I started. I personally feel I am two times the cartoon pilot I was 2 years ago.
There's much more to the game than aimlessly flying around and turning in circles regardless of the situation. I could write a dang book on being an effective MA fighter. The aspect of the game you enjoy would be only one chapter of it.
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I see 3 basic groups pretty well represented: (Apologies in advance if this is an incorrect generalization)
1. Good timers= Get in the furball already and have a good time because it's a game. (Corky)
2. History nuts/realists= I'm going to fly my sentimental favorites and try to fly in a manner that gets me home. (Me)
3. Be the besters= What's the point of playing if you're not in it to win? Winning = fun. (Grizz)
Best part is, I think a lot of folks can fit squarely in any of the 3 categories at a different point in time.
Exact definitions of a "good time" seem to vary as much as the personalities involved. Do I think the game would generally be more fun if everyone had Corky's approach? No doubt whatsoever in my mind.
Can anyone really care about being "the best" or even achieving a personal (statistical) best in that scenario though? Not so much. There is something to be said for competition, and I doubt this debate would carry the current fervor if either side had any intent of leaving the game. We all come back for more :)
Break Break
I remember looking down and watching Grizz defend a de-acked airfield a few months back amidst 4 to 1 odds. (About 20 greens with alt vs 3-5 reds at a given time) His k4 was hunting and evading beautifully. My squaddie Doolittle wanted a Grizz scalp bad and made 5-6 passes without doing anything but losing ammo and patience. I made a single pass and missed before moving on to easier prey/giving Doo more chances. Grizz landed 7 kills in 5-7 minutes despite flying out of a vulched field, never breaking 3k feet and 4:1 odds. It was the best display of SA I've ever seen in this game. Even you wudda been proud Corky:)
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The best SA guys to play the game, no longer play sad to say. But it's irrelevant to the discussion. This isn't a furball vs other style discussion. Getting it, in my mind is understanding there is a community of players here and we all have an impact on the game by how we interact with the game.
Dedelos, myself and some others were responding that in many people's minds it's lousy to drop in on a fight that someone else is having without asking first. No one proclaimed it as the only way. As one who likes to think the other guy is trying to have fun too, I tend to ask first. That's my style. If I see a guy shot up and don't shoot him, or let a guy ditch and fly on by, that's my choice.
As for guys wanting to be the greatest cartoon pilot who ever lived. Go for it. I took my shot my second year in Airwarrior which would be 1998. Worked my tail off, flew countless hours, got the wife mad at me for the one and only time in the marriage, and frankly was a pretty good stick. Didn't have nearly as much fun though and grew out of it. That being said, I'd like to believe I can still give folks a good fight.
Grizz, as for using every tool in the tool box. Been there, done that. I don't have the cartoon flying time to put into it anymore. Doesn't mean I don't know how. After this many years of cartoon flying, the friendships and the good fights are far more valuable to me. I'd also like to think that trying to pass on the best of the game to the new folks is a responsibility that us old timers have. I sure know that folks passed it on to me, and I'd like to think they taught me well.
The bottom line for the whole discussion to me is folks need to remember that other players are out to have fun too. Some have limited time to play, others much more. Could be that guy whose kill you picked was in his one and only decent fight of the week. Wouldn't kill you to ask first. And in the end it's the people you get to know and the friendships you make that keep the game worthwhile. I've gotten to know lots of good folks in the last 14 years. Respecting the people in how you approach the game is part of that in my mind.
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The bottom line for the whole discussion to me is folks need to remember that other players are out to have fun too. Some have limited time to play, others much more. Could be that guy whose kill you picked was in his one and only decent fight of the week. Wouldn't kill you to ask first. And in the end it's the people you get to know and the friendships you make that keep the game worthwhile. I've gotten to know lots of good folks in the last 14 years. Respecting the people in how you approach the game is part of that in my mind.
I never said that I go around clearing my friendlies 12's, but I did say that a true isolated 1v1 is rare. I don't go out of my way to kill bogeys that others have saddled, but sometimes I am slashing through a swarm and an angle develops on a bogey. I take it everytime. Was an ally on him? I don't know, who cares, it's a furball. When I see a good lookin 1v1 in the middle of nowhere I'm not going to swoop in and pick the guy, that's just common sense. I always ask when it is reasonable to do so.
As for your other points, I do my part to help the community too. I help players that ask for help, post in the help and training, and even send films to those that politely ask. The help I give is to become a better cartoon pilot, which hopefully will create more fun for those that give the effort.
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Good, then we agree on what's important.
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well wiley i tell you what, you are free to boom in and pick my opponent in a 1v1 without so much as a by your leave and i am free to make it a point to hound you for the rest of the night.
ever tried to shoot at someone when a friendly makes it a point to spend all his time blocking your shots? booming in between you and your intended victim just as your firing can be rather comical......well not for you, but for me and every person that gets your proxies its a hell of a laugh! especially when i keep claiming your kill on 200.
kill shooter can be such a useful tool when trying to teach countrymen a lesson.
and in case you are doubting my willingness to be that dweebish, i have done this before to killstealing A&#*Y^&S who cant mind their own business. so if you wanna say its my $15.00 and ill play as i chose....well remember i pay my $15.00, too and i can play as i want to also.
oh, and by the by those scenarios you described above, well they all sound like it was a furball likely from a base attack/defence going on and the pick you chose to take from your perch was in the middle alt of it. now as i recall everyone thus far agrees that in a the mix of a furball base attack/defence then all is fair.
in case you were describing multiple individuals flying and fighting and minding their own business having fun......well ain't you just the greatest team player by butting in and jacking kills from those who put in the work without asking or being asked by the people who are having fun. how rude of them to be having fun without you! without even inviting you!!!!!
All Ded and others have asked for is some respect and common courtesy from others, and have explained their own personal standards of play. if you chose to play in a different manner then that is your choice to make, do as you want. but dont be surprised when people who have played this game for a long time regard you as a tard and ignore your presence when you are near them in the MA's.
Well said.
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Okay, let's start here. I realize it's simple to say 'well, you should leave the 1v1 be' and it sounds all good and polite and honorable, but let's look at the mechanics of this. Let's take two different scenarios that could occur from this simple statement.
Scenario 1- I happen upon a friendly in a 1v1. I'm within 1k alt either way, I'm cruising at speed. There's another bandit headed in the general direction of the 1v1. He's also co-alt, cruising at speed. It's fairly clear-cut at this point, right? I engage the second con. We both have our 1v1. Everything's fairsies, everybody's happy, right? At least until somebody gets shot down, now there's a 2v1. Or, if the second bandit is treating it now as a 2v2 and trying to bag the friendly, who is being dragged by the bandit he's in the 1v1 with.
Scenario 2- I happen upon a friendly in a 1v1. The center of their engagement is a couple thousand feet above me, maybe a bit more. Their vertical maneuvers generally put them low enough that if I maneuvered properly, I could take a shot. Without too much trouble, the bandit in the 1v1 could set up for me and take a shot on the way by. There's another bandit headed in the general direction of the 1v1 from the opposite side of the two engaged planes. He's co-alt with me.
Why am I expected to put myself at a disadvantage to the bandit that's engaged in the 1v1 and hope (probably vainly) he doesn't capitalize on me going by on the way to the second con? Typically now you're engaged in a 2v2, not a couple of 1v1s. If the two bandits fight it as a 2v2 instead of a 1v1, either me or the friendly is going to get saddled up on and creamed.
Should I respect the 1v1 and pull off, and let the friendly whine on 200 about how he was picked by the second bandit? And/Or get pissy because I 'hung him out to dry' because I left him to his 1v1? This is also assuming perfect SA. Maybe I was moving into the area away from an unfriendly horde that's headed this way 6k behind me, and my attention's split, so all I see is two enemies, one friendly in front of me. There's a freaking legion of other possibilities here, and we're only looking at a scenario with 4 planes all off by their lonesome.
Okay, what if I keep my distance and go around and the second bandit comes straight in on the friendly to saddle up? Because I was trying to be polite and respect the 1v1, I'm out of position to save the poor schmuck and he gets pissy because I hung him out to dry.
I'm sorry, but if there's more than the 2 of you within icon range, I just don't think it's feasible to have the expectation that everybody on the battlefield clears out of your way like the main fight scene in a movie.
It's not that it comes up that often, because frankly the arena doesn't work this way. There's the 'if it's red, it's dead' mentality, and I think the majority works in that framework. My point is, if just one guy in that 2v2 or 3v3 say, 'Guys, leave the 109 alone, he's MINE ALL MINE!' and his fight is not 10,000 feet below the rest of you, why is it suddenly up to all the rest of you to concede to his wishes, when the bandits might not be playing by the same set of rules, and you have no way of figuring that out other than by their actions, and the fact that things happen so quickly in this game, they can take advantage of a couple seconds of decision making on your part to leap in and drill the friendly who you're leaving to do his thing. And more often than not, now the guy's whining on country because nobody called his six.
Never mind the fact that it's now taxing your SA to be in the middle of a multiple-con dogfight and go 'Oh, that's his 109 that he's declared as MINE ALL MINE and I'm not supposed to engage it. *dodge the con I'm currently engaged with* Hmm... the 109 seems to be saddling up on me OH F-' 'You have been shot down by the 109 that was MINE ALL MINE.'
It seems to me that the duelist advocates are one of two things- Either your SA is so poor, you can only handle interacting with one con at once or your SA is so freaking off the charts awesome, that you can manage to keep track of your 1v1 when there are ten other planes in the area. The rest of us may not have that capability. Rudimentary IFF might be all the other people around you are capable of in a multiple on multiple engagement.
I know for myself, I get overwhelmed if there's more than 2 bandits interacting with me. And that's on a good day, and assuming they're not working together all that well.
Just to be clear, I agree, coming in from 10k higher to pick the only available bandit from in front of a friendly is dweebery. No argument there. But when other planes start to appear on the horizon, I think some people have unreasonable expectations of the people around them as far as SA and the fact that a moving battle is rolling right over top of your designated 1v1 space.
Wiley.
So much to think about. I realize that when your trying to fugure out what you should do it is very difficult at those ranges to see the hand signals you are making to communicate with your countryman to understand what they might expect from you, not to mention how hard it is to fly with your hands off the controls, especially when attempting the hand signals that require two hands. Protocall is to rock your wings to signal to friendies that you are about to engage in a hand signal gesture. Then turn 90 deg to the friendly so that a clear view can be obtains through the side cockpit glass. Now the hand signal for asking if the friendly needs help....
Oh wait, there's a RADIO in the plane!
Wily - "Flotsom, you good with K4?"
Flotsom - "Yep"
Wily - "High spit. I'm on him"
Flotsom - "K4 down, it was Vinkman he sucks. Got the Spit?"
Wily - "think so."
Flotsom "Grabbin."
What did that take 4 seconds?
You can make it sound more complicated than it is, so you have an excuse to do what you want, but many won't buy it. :salute
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Yup. And do you conduct yourself as though the guy in front of you will not let the door close in your face at all times? If you do, just how often do you break your nose on closing doors?
Expecting everyone to play by your own self-imposed rules is delusional at best.
Wiley.
I don't expect everyone is the same. That is why I said "many don't". I'll grab a door someone else let go in someone elses face if I can. It's just who I am and how I was raised.
While most all folks like to think they are upstanding...... in reality they are not. You are free to chose your own level in any group.
If some folks point out something your doing and you are doing it.......
Good luck with that.
No one is saying you can't do what you do.... it's just who you are........... It is a "GAME" just have fun doing it and let things fall as they may.
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(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/high_horse.jpg)
Who decides whats right or wrong Shuffler is it you? Is it Dedalos? Where is the aces high etiquette manual? Who wrote this manual? Why should we follow this line of thinking? What is gained from following a certain set of "rules" in a video game? Oh pray tell shuffler. Lead us boorish un-washed masses from the way of darkness to the way of light. Be our Sherpa of the Everest that is Aces High.
Aww come on kilo...... it only looks high from your standpoint.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
I see the parallels now! Anyone who picks, tries to stay alive, and plays the game in what you consider to be unfair and dweeby, is probably a hooligan in real life. Oh my god my side hurts, thanks for that laugh Shuffles. :aok
The greatest irony of it all is that you are commonly observed flying in exactly the same dweeby style that you bleed your heart against here on the bbs.
This sounds just like the folks in our prisons. :rofl You are who you are no matter where that may be.
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Yep. Hasn't been a fortnight since I got vulched by Shuffler himself. Hmmm...
If you were, that was an extremely rare occasion. If I was shooting ack guns and you present yourself I may fire. More often than that ever happening I may let your smoking damaged plane return without further harrassment from a good fight. Even calling off others if they are looking to get you.
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now the bigger question..........is he a soooooper geeeeenius?
Of course, it says so on my card. :D
Wiley.
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Wily - "Flotsom, you good with K4?"
Flotsom - "Yep"
Wily - "High spit. I'm on him"
Flotsom - "K4 down, it was Vinkman he sucks. Got the Spit?"
Wily - "think so."
Flotsom "Grabbin."
What did that take 4 seconds?
You can make it sound more complicated than it is, so you have an excuse to do what you want, but many won't buy it. :salute
Yep. As long as the battle is proceeding in an orderly fashion and the red guys are cooperating (which always, always happens) it's simple.
All my point is, is expecting everybody in an open sides based anything goes arena to work around your duel when it puts them to a disadvantage is rude, selfish behavior and people claiming some kind of moral superiority because of that behavior is laughably hypocritical.
Wiley.
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Grizz, Guppy cool non-personalization and personality assassination conversation, rare find in here when 2 people who aren't seeing eye to eye are discussing their issues in a mildly heated fashion. <<S>> to you both.
Guppy i can say that Grizz, although saying what he means, is not really painting as good a picture of himself as the one i as a squadie get to see. i think his primary concern in this conversation is to say that each individual person and each individual flying style all brings something new to the game. he is defending the game from the thought of the mindless drones that fly around in circles each flying in exactly the same manner as the next guy. there are many ways to do things in this game and Grizz has the skill to use most of them with extreme success, so he is not of the mind to join the hive mentality.
Grizz Guppy is saying that each person should fly as they choose, just try to respect the fun of those around you.
You are both leading to the same point, the game can and should be fun and free styled for all, your just getting there from different starting points.
Although, I will admit at the time I joined the muppets, the squadron had taken on the identity of being a squadron that flew around on the deck getting killed by gangs and then talking serious smack (whining perhaps?) on 200.
Grizz i will say that i was a Muppet when you joined, and this statement is nothing i would agree with in any fashion. maybe you are miss-remembering the circumstances or who the Muppets were when you joined, but i was there and i disagree. talking trash to opponents was and still is a major part of the Muppet identity. so without trying to detract from the point you were making, and making very well i might add, this statement i find a touch insulting, not so much to me personally, but to the memory of Muppets as a squad at the time when i joined. i will say for the purposes of disclosure that i was the only unskilled Muppet in the squad and the only one likely to be found groveling in the dirt with the masses.
Vickman, a touch of correction to your tale....
Wily - "Flotsom, you good with K4?"
Flotsom - "No, he is like a greased pig! but ill manage"
Wily - "High spit. I'm on him"
Flotsom - "damn it we rammed each other, it was Vinkman he sucks almost as bad as i do. your on your own with the Spit"
Wily - "think so."
Flotsom "Grabbin a new ride be back soon."
now that sounds so much truer to life :D
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Yep. As long as the battle is proceeding in an orderly fashion and the red guys are cooperating (which always, always happens) it's simple.
All my point is, is expecting everybody in an open sides based anything goes arena to work around your duel when it puts them to a disadvantage is rude, selfish behavior and people claiming some kind of moral superiority because of that behavior is laughably hypocritical.
Wiley.
I agree. I think folks get lost in these 'rules' discussions as if they have to be followed. The situations described are just to pointing out that there are times when a radio check is beneficial to all involved. It's just a good idea and can make the MA a more enjoyable experience for all. :salute
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(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/high_horse.jpg)
Who decides whats right or wrong Shuffler is it you? Is it Dedalos? Where is the aces high etiquette manual? Who wrote this manual? Why should we follow this line of thinking? What is gained from following a certain set of "rules" in a video game? Oh pray tell shuffler. Lead us boorish un-washed masses from the way of darkness to the way of light. Be our Sherpa of the Everest that is Aces High.
Nah, you still don;t get it. I don't make the rules and sure hope Shuffler doesn't either :lol All you get from me is my opinion on the subject. You can fly any way you want. I am not trying to stop you. But, I do have my opinion and if you do fly the way I mentioned you will get no respect from me and I will think of you as just another lamer. I don;t see why that is so important to you. It is just the opinion of some idiot. I still think that you miss my point. I will pick you off also. But I did not take off with the intent of picking. I took off looking for a fight but if you happen to be in front of my guns I will pick you no questions asked.
So, do I expect the guy in front of me to hold the door? Yes! Do I break my nose? No! That is a stupid example in lack of a valid argument. I reach out and grab the door and exit no problems. Do I think the guy not holding it is an idiot? Yes! Did I try to stop him from being an idiot? no! See? It is just an opinion and for some reason it drives you guys nuts :aok
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The greatest irony of it all is that you are commonly observed flying in exactly the same dweeby style that you bleed your heart against here on the bbs.
You mean the 38 waiting at 5K at the end of the runways trying to rope you or kill you once you avoid a vulcher is him?
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The greatest irony of it all is that you are commonly observed flying in exactly the same dweeby style that you bleed your heart against here on the bbs.
Actually you only hope that to make you feel better about how you normally fly.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
I see the parallels now! Anyone who picks, tries to stay alive, and plays the game in what you consider to be unfair and dweeby, is probably a hooligan in real life. Oh my god my side hurts, thanks for that laugh Shuffles. :aok
The greatest irony of it all is that you are commonly observed flying in exactly the same dweeby style that you bleed your heart against here on the bbs.
i know you've been here for awhile.....and i presume you probably already know this.......
but EVERYONE at one point or another does that which they complain about. there are zero exceptions to this. it's just the way things are in the game.
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So, do I expect the guy in front of me to hold the door? Yes! Do I break my nose? No! That is a stupid example in lack of a valid argument. I reach out and grab the door and exit no problems. Do I think the guy not holding it is an idiot? Yes! Did I try to stop him from being an idiot? no! See? It is just an opinion and for some reason it drives you guys nuts :aok
It's not so much the difference of opinion. It's more the unjustified sanctimony that rolls off of you guys in nearly visible waves that gets under my skin.
Wiley.
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It's not so much the difference of opinion. It's more the unjustified sanctimony that rolls off of you guys in nearly visible waves that gets under my skin.
Wiley.
Well, I m talking about my self here. I think I made it clear that I was talking about people that always and only fly that way, not someone taking a random opportunity to shoot. At the end of the day though, no matter what my opinion is on the subject, do I really have any effect on you or anyone else? You know what is the funniest thing in all this? People that do only pick and do admit to it in the BBS, they go nuts in the game if you say nice pick. Why do they get so offended by it if they see it as a normal thing or the smart way of playing the game? It is all good until you point the obvious out. I don;t get mad if you tell me nice dweebish acm move there. Why you guys get upset if I say nice pick? :rofl
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Nah, you still don;t get it. I don't make the rules and sure hope Shuffler doesn't either :lol All you get from me is my opinion on the subject. You can fly any way you want. I am not trying to stop you. But, I do have my opinion and if you do fly the way I mentioned you will get no respect from me and I will think of you as just another lamer. I don;t see why that is so important to you. It is just the opinion of some idiot. I still think that you miss my point. I will pick you off also. But I did not take off with the intent of picking. I took off looking for a fight but if you happen to be in front of my guns I will pick you no questions asked.
So, do I expect the guy in front of me to hold the door? Yes! Do I break my nose? No! That is a stupid example in lack of a valid argument. I reach out and grab the door and exit no problems. Do I think the guy not holding it is an idiot? Yes! Did I try to stop him from being an idiot? no! See? It is just an opinion and for some reason it drives you guys nuts :aok
Well I don't takeoff with the plan of just picking. I would like a 1v1 as well but those are few and far between. The difference is I don't think I am somehow better than other or that I should tell people they don't have my respect and are "lamers" for not picking.
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Well, I m talking about my self here. I think I made it clear that I was talking about people that always and only fly that way, not someone taking a random opportunity to shoot. At the end of the day though, no matter what my opinion is on the subject, do I really have any effect on you or anyone else? You know what is the funniest thing in all this? People that do only pick and do admit to it in the BBS, they go nuts in the game if you say nice pick. Why do they get so offended by it if they see it as a normal thing or the smart way of playing the game? It is all good until you point the obvious out. I don;t get mad if you tell me nice dweebish acm move there. Why you guys get upset if I say nice pick? :rofl
Well I for one wouldn't care if you said nice pick. I might even say thank you. I honestly care if people squeak and moan. What does bother me is the though that people who don't pick are somehow better because they don't.
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What does bother me is the though that people who don't pick are somehow better because they don't.
Some of us are better looking also :lol
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Well I for one wouldn't care if you said nice pick. I might even say thank you. I honestly care if people squeak and moan. What does bother me is the though that people who don't pick are somehow better because they don't.
And again the point is missed. The point is, you'll get more respect from folks if you understand you are playing against other people and treat them with some courtesy as they too are trying to enjoy the game. Play the game in whatever style you choose with the understanding people will react to it good or bad depending on that style. We all live with the consequences of how we act in whatever we do.
As folks have mentioned, every last one of us have picked someone at one point or another. But if I'm in a fight with another guy and you come blazing down in the middle of my fight and pick one of us when we've been doing the work, don't expect me to pat you on the back and tell you nice job. Chances are if you are on my team and pick the guy I'm fighting, I'll apologize to that guy for his fight getting ruined. If I see you coming I'll try and call you off. And if it's me you pick, and then you <S> me like you've accomplished something, I doubt I'll <S> in return as you didn't earn it and I'll tell the other guy who was doing the work that I wish we could have finished the fight and it should have been his kill.
If it's a big furball with lots of guys shooting at each other and you come blazing through, so be it. It's expected. If that's your idea of fun, go for it. I'm in the fight I was looking for too and at that point anything goes.
In the end, because we have a choice, and because no one is really dying, we can take a second to assess the situation before acting on it. That would be the courtesy part since we aren't really at war, and there are no enemies, just people having fun on their computers.
It's just not that complicated to figure out.
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All it means is you unlearned it Grizz.
I don't suppose you remember the first time we fought cartoon airplanes way back when do you? If you take the time to finish reading this, you'll understand why I do.
You were a 38 dweeb in a squad that was known at the time for nothing but ganging, hording, picking, and excuse making. You were floating above the furball picking, when Zap, Pawz and I wandered in low in the old 38s. Pawz got ya and you came on 200 whining about Pawz HO'ing you and getting ganged etc. Pawz hadn't but it was the usual excuse of someone who was too worried about his score, landing his kills and proving he was a cartoon airplane hero.
I PM'd you and said relax, we're just looking for a good fight. You didn't buy it initially but then you seemed to notice we weren't picking you, weren't HO'ing you and we weren't ganging you. I then suggested we move it north for some co-alt 1 v 1 stuff. You hesitated but then you agreed and we had some good fights, 38G to your 38J. I got you the first time and then we had two in a row where we collided and had a good laugh. I had to leave after that but I believe those fights continued 1 v 1 with Zap and Pawz. You seemed to have relaxed and enjoyed the fights as you figured out we meant what we said in that we were just having fun.
Now for the reason I remember. Right after this your name came up in a discussion in the DFC forum. At that point I was involved with it. Guys, some who wear the same squad tag as you now, were saying you were essentially all of what I posted above. At that point I jumped in and explained that it was not the case in my opinion. After talking to you that night I said that you seemed to want to learn the ACM stuff, that you seemed like a good guy and that you were looking for the fight more then the name in lights. I told them you had a chance to be a really good stick too if I remember right. I'm sure the thread is still there way back in the DFC forum if you'd like to check. I also invited you into SAPP as you were a 38 dweeb at the time. You knew then what the 38 guys were about as it's written very clearly and sticky'd there.
Not too long afterwards you ended up in the Muppets. I remember asking one of them at the time how that happened as you seemed to be on their #$#@ list. Seems like the story at the time was you telling them it was all an act and that you really did get it.
And now as your list describes you are back to where you started. Terribly ironic to me and I must admit I'm a bit disappointed in myself as generally I feel like I can read people better then in this case.
The other irony to me is the D-11 and P39D driver I mentioned previously is a member of your old squad. And there he was, flying and dying on the deck for the fun of the fight. Seems like he gets it.
But you are right. Fly it the way you want to have fun. Your approach belongs to you. Your approach and mine will never be the same clearly. There is no right way. Both do have an impact on the game however.
Sunbat you taking notes? I'll await your commentary.
I am shocked!!!!!!!! :O
Grizz is off my friend list and I will not be visiting him in prison.
I had a longer reply planned but I don't have time and it really makes no difference anyway. The bottom line is both of you are at different ends of the furballing spectrum and I am somewhere in between. You can be repectful at both ends of the spectrum and in the middle and that is what we should all endeavor to be. I think we usually all are and just like to push buttons in here mostly.
Having said all of that, Shuffler is a hyprocrite. Shuffles, just don't preach against it and then you can do it all you want with impunity. (You know I louv ya.) :neener:
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The best SA guys to play the game, no longer play sad to say. But it's irrelevant to the discussion.
I see comments like this of yesteryears and imo these comments are simply not true. The ma player base evolves just like the ma. I'm willing to wager that for every past stick good at a certain aspect of this game there are two just as good today.
Imo the ma has evolved into a game of tag. The badguys must be forced into the fight. Fun to me is taking what the ma has evoled to and doing it better. With style of course.
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SA is kinda a joke in the MAs with icons and all. You're either AFK and completely out of it or you should be able to see them coming from a mile away.
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Actually you only hope that to make you feel better about how you normally fly.
No. The point is, if you are going to stand on a pedestal and tell people how to fight honorably, you had better live it. Corky, is actually the only guy that does live it. The rest of you pick just as much as the rest of us. As for how I fly, I would say I fly pretty much like you, only a lot better.
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SA is kinda a joke in the MAs with icons and all. You're either AFK and completely out of it or you should be able to see them coming from a mile away.
i honestly thought i had good SA.....until i flew in the ava arena. now, i realize how poor mine is.....but having fun anyway.
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Corky, is actually the only guy that does live it.
Yep.
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No. The point is, if you are going to stand on a pedestal and tell people how to fight honorably, you had better live it. Corky, is actually the only guy that does live it. The rest of you pick just as much as the rest of us. As for how I fly, I would say I fly pretty much like you, only a lot better.
It's only a pedestal from your point of view.
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I do not interfere with a 1vs1, if I am fighting a 1vs1 and a friendly jumps in I brake away to let the red guy deal with the new threat, chances are the red guy will win, then we can continue our fight :-). of course it dont always work out that way, I have flown that way since the begining of my AH career, I will not change the way I fly just because the majority of the MA fly differantly then I do.
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I do not interfere with a 1vs1, if I am fighting a 1vs1 and a friendly jumps in I brake away to let the red guy deal with the new threat, chances are the red guy will win, then we can continue our fight :-). of course it dont always work out that way, I have flown that way since the begining of my AH career, I will not change the way I fly just because the majority of the MA fly differantly then I do.
bolded.....i've done this often.
hell......i even cleared cobias tail once, when a third bad guy came in. he went for the a20, so i went for him. i was knight, think cobia was bish,.....or rook......the third guy was the third chess piece......so i waxed him, so cobia could wax me. :D
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bolded.....i've done this often.
hell......i even cleared cobias tail once, when a third bad guy came in. he went for the a20, so i went for him. i was knight, think cobia was bish,.....or rook......the third guy was the third chess piece......so i waxed him, so cobia could wax me. :D
haha classic.......... cobia is always fun to fight.
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Here's film that was taken earlier this month of me and kappa fighting at disadvantage against the 80th headhunters. They were really good fights, and we were lucky to come out alive, but oh so quickly you guys forget about things like this. Here's your reminder(s):
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/80th.ahf (http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/80th.ahf)
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Shuffler2.ahf (http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Shuffler2.ahf)
The first one in particular. The second because I enjoy shooting shuffler's P38 into a million pieces. Especially when he is diving down to 'pick' me. Oh the humanity!!
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Cap, no doubt, I enjoy a good three chesspiece fight. I have found a few in AH that understand Honor and apply it to AH, thats because that is how they are naturally. I Dont blame the ones that dont, ignorance is bliss,if I get picked, my own SA is to blame, or my target fixation:-)
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Here's film that was taken earlier this month of me and kappa fighting at disadvantage against the 80th headhunters. They were really good fights, and we were lucky to come out alive, but oh so quickly you guys forget about things like this. Here's your reminder(s):
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/80th.ahf (http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/80th.ahf)
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Shuffler2.ahf (http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Shuffler2.ahf)
The first one in particular. The second because I enjoy shooting shuffler's P38 into a million pieces. Especially when he is diving down to 'pick' me. Oh the humanity!!
Shuff's point is no different then mine. No one has claimed they've never picked or come into a fight with an advantage. I don't recall the 80th ever claiming anything but enjoying flying 38s, having fun and not taking the game too seriously. To try and make it anything beyond that is just silly Grizz. I would suggest it's a good time to let it go.
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To try and make it anything beyond that is just silly Grizz.
As I think it is silly to make up arbitrary, subjective rules that nobody even adheres to themselves. Except you, I have lots of respect. :salute
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I love it when you guys bond like this. :D
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Shuff's point is no different then mine. No one has claimed they've never picked or come into a fight with an advantage. I don't recall the 80th ever claiming anything but enjoying flying 38s, having fun and not taking the game too seriously. To try and make it anything beyond that is just silly Grizz. I would suggest it's a good time to let it go.
Jeeps, don't forget the jeeps :D j/k
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Jeeps, don't forget the jeeps :D j/k
While the game will forever remain silly, how people get treated in it, will always be a serious thing to me :)
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While the game will forever remain silly, how people get treated in it, will always be a serious thing to me :)
All people or just people in jeeps? ;)
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All people or just people in jeeps? ;)
Too soon bear, too soon.
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Too soon bear, too soon.
no sense of humor around here, sheesh
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I thought this was going to be a simple thread :banana: :banana: going back to MA :airplane: to P I C K a fight :bolt:
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no sense of humor around here, sheesh
It's gotta be funny first Bear :)
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It's gotta be funny first Bear :)
It was for many of us ;)
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It was for many of us ;)
Well then what you complaining for? :)
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Well then what you complaining for? :)
complaining? Nah, just ribbing. Don't take it so serious :D
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complaining? Nah, just ribbing. Don't take it so serious :D
Would I be replying if I was? :D OK wife just got in from work. We can continue our clever diologue tomorrow :)
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Would I be replying if I was? :D OK wife just got in from work. We can continue our clever diologue tomorrow :)
Just checking. Some here take things far too serious.
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Jeep killers are bottom of the barrel dweebtards. They shouldn't be trusted and should be asked for their papers on site. I bet the same guys that kill jeeps would tie 2 cats tails together and throw them over the clothesline for enjoyment. :furious
stinking muppets dont even know what to shoot at in fighter mode :rolleyes:
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Jeep killers are bottom of the barrel dweebtards. They shouldn't be trusted and should be asked for their papers on site. I bet the same guys that kill jeeps would tie 2 cats tails together and throw them over the clothesline for enjoyment. :furious
stinking muppets dont even know what to shoot at in fighter mode :rolleyes:
It all depends on the knot you use :lol
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i dont know who is the more twisted individual
uptown for thinking about throwing cats with their tails tied together over a cloths line
or
bear for knowing there are different styles of knots one can employ and that choosing the correct knot depends on the circumstances
i do understand that bear has a mental defect which excuses him from liability though....he is a Muppet,
Uptown on the other hand is not a Muppet, he has no excuse he is just twisted
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crazy glue
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well no wonder my head has been so stopped up lately. :P
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no Uptown, thats just snot!
face it your twisted
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The worst part about this thread is, I now can't get the image of two cats tied together tossed over a clothesline out of my head. For some strange reason, this possibility has never crept into my brain before this morning, and I am finding it to be something I can't stop thinking about. The wrongness of it all...
Off to meditate on this thing and others.
Wiley.
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The worst part about this thread is, I now can't get the image of two cats tied together tossed over a clothesline out of my head. For some strange reason, this possibility has never crept into my brain before this morning, and I am finding it to be something I can't stop thinking about. The wrongness of it all...
Off to meditate on this thing and others.
Wiley.
so what style knot did you choose?
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Well, that's the problem. Generally speaking, I'd just go with a couple of half hitches or a square knot, but it being clear that the knot type is important, I'm not really sure what to use.
And now, just because it's how my brain works, my brain is trying to incorporate a ceiling fan into this scenario.
Wiley.
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i like to use cuffs. no matter how good of a knot you use on her........oohh wait......nevermind. :noid :noid
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You guys took a perfect flaming thread heading for a lock and turned in to, how do I say it, oh "Don't ask don't tell thread". Watching Days of Our Lives is better than what you did to this thread!
Sad :(
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Ded your just upset that Wiley had the courage to mention the cieling fan thing first!!!
oh and Wiley i would definately go with shackles if your thinking about setting the fan to high!
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I did not watch your film because it means nothing. No one knows the circumstances involved. Wonder what was before your film..... hmmmmm
No one says they never do what you do. It is a detriment to the game to make the new folks think it's ok.
Bet you missed any film on the many times we have backed off a base and let them know so they can up and get up to speed. We don't need the kills...... we would much rather have the fights.
It's obvious you don't care. Even though it is a game there is a community here too. It's your choice what you do to it or for it.
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I did not watch your film because it means nothing. No one knows the circumstances involved. Wonder what was before your film..... hmmmmm
No one says they never do what you do. It is a detriment to the game to make the new folks think it's ok.
Bet you missed any film on the many times we have backed off a base and let them know so they can up and get up to speed. We don't need the kills...... we would much rather have the fights.
It's obvious you don't care. Even though it is a game there is a community here too. It's your choice what you do to it or for it.
bolded.......before i joined the 80th, i think i witnessed this at least twice. i've done it since joining at least once.
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No one says they never do what you do. It is a detriment to the game to make the new folks think it's ok.
What?
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I don't have any cat-size shackles on hand... I'm contemplating duct tape, as it'll do just about anything if you use enough of it.
And Shuffler, thanks for keeping the unjustified sanctimony going. I was concerned it might fizzle out after the last few posts, but clearly I had no need to worry with you around.
Wiley.
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bolded.......before i joined the 80th, i think i witnessed this at least twice. i've done it since joining at least once.
I've seen you guys do that a number of times. However, there was one element present that is not always present and when that element is absent a different standard is upheld. Would you care to guess what that element is?
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Duct tape would work well. It holds the kids pretty good. I just need to find a heavier clothes line, as the one we have keeps snapping when i sling them over it. :headscratch:
I like the bolin knot if im out of tape.
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Duct tape would work well. It holds the kids pretty good. I just need to find a heavier clothes line, as the one we have keeps snapping when i sling them over it. :headscratch:
I like the bolin knot if im out of tape.
parachord
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a kitten well worth shackling. :devil :angel:
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/catwoman.jpg)
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Duct tape would work well. It holds the kids pretty good. I just need to find a heavier clothes line, as the one we have keeps snapping when i sling them over it. :headscratch:
An alternative could be to use smaller cats also.
And also, you guys that are on about the shackles, you're assuming the struggle to escape isn't part of the fun.
Wiley.
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Here are a couple of films of the a very poor example being set for new players. What if that poor little 109G6 had been piloted by a tender shoot of a player just learning to up from a runway? He would probably just log off and never come back because those big mean 38's hover over the fight and pick him. Either that, or he would realize that maybe he should just do the same thing.
Well it's a good thing it was only me in there - one of those Muppets that never ups from a capped field and never, ever flys anything but late war uber rides.
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Sunbatt/PoorExample1.ahf
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Sunbatt/PoorExample2.ahf
P.S. I encourage the viewer to ride with Shuffler and see the fight from his perspective. The first film sets the stage mostly. Just consider what the clipboard must have looked like on the way to that fight. Hop into his seat and take a look at the scene after he got there. This does not match the doctrine that I see being preached on these boards.
Don't preach it if you ain't gonna live it, Shuffles. :D :salute
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I've seen you guys do that a number of times. However, there was one element present that is not always present and when that element is absent a different standard is upheld. Would you care to guess what that element is?
Oh, and since nobody wants to venture a guess. The element is Corky's presence. The fight in those films above got a lot better later that night when Corky logged on and the 38's moved off and let us take off and get some alt and speed to work with.
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I did not watch your film because it means nothing.
Oh ok.
No one says they never do what you do. It is a detriment to the game to make the new folks think it's ok.
What exactly do I do? Please elaborate.
Bet you missed any film on the many times we have backed off a base and let them know so they can up and get up to speed.
The reason you back off the base is so you don't have to deal with the ack while you pick them. We do the same thing!
We don't need the kills...... we would much rather have the fights.
Is anybody actually buying this rhetoric?
It's obvious you don't care. Even though it is a game there is a community here too. It's your choice what you do to it or for it.
Be more specific please. I do not care about what? The feelings of the poor bad guys that I shoot down? The feelings of the jeeps I strafe? Heck no I don't care! The toons are free, no one really dies, go get another one and try not to fly in front of my guns next time.
The only difference between me and you is that you pretend to adhere to a certain set of rules. Of course, this is all speculation until I see the official "Shuffler's Rules of MA Conduct". Can you please post this so we can go through the list and identify which rules are actually reasonable in the first place and which rules you actually follow, based on eyewitness accounts? I think everyone here can agree that this would be a most excellent addition to this already spectacular discussion!
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I've seen you guys do that a number of times. However, there was one element present that is not always present and when that element is absent a different standard is upheld. Would you care to guess what that element is?
Carbon for the win! :D
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Duct tape would work well. It holds the kids pretty good. I just need to find a heavier clothes line, as the one we have keeps snapping when i sling them over it. :headscratch:
I like the bolin knot if im out of tape.
Depending on the breed of course, but I find a sheep shank knot works best.
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Don't preach it if you ain't gonna live it, Shuffles. :D :salute
B-b-b-but you have to look at context, Sunbat. If the appropriate things happen before, it's perfectly ok, honorable, and just downright peachy to do that kind of thing. Really! Because, well... because Shuffler says so! :aok :salute
Wiley.
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What absolutely doesn't make any sence at all to me, is how a threat that a) deals with picking b) deals with the muppets, and c) has hit 17 pages, AND still has no mention of the master of the pick-n-run in a pony - steve.
This thread is clearly nothing but a bunch of rubish churned up by some newaged and unexperienced sticks to this game. :devil
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In the hopes that this thing dies. Two comments
-You gents are still missing the point Pick, furball, bomb buildings, GV to your hearts content. There is no right way But keep in mind that how you treat the players in the game, good, bad or indifferent makes a difference. Don't expect a pat on the back if you show a lack of courtesy. If that bothers you, it's your problem. My own experience is that if you treat folks decently, the game is more fun. Again, as has been pointed out many times in this thread. This is just an opinion, not law. Do with it what you want.
-Sunbat, you do realize you are getting played at a game you guys seem to take pride in being good at?
edited to add: Keep in mind our CO is a Muppet, so anything bad the 80th does is on the direction of a Muppet. So who is really to blame? We blame Zap :)
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What absolutely doesn't make any sence at all to me, is how a threat that a) deals with picking b) deals with the muppets, and c) has hit 17 pages, AND still has no mention of the master of the pick-n-run in a pony - steve.
This thread is clearly nothing but a bunch of rubish churned up by some newaged and unexperienced sticks to this game. :devil
unexperienced?
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:aok to all of it
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-Sunbat, you do realize you are getting played at a game you guys seem to take pride in being good at?
Wait. I assume you mean trolling, which is not true in relation to topics like this, but assuming that is what you mean, that means that all of your philosophy is a troll and you only do it to get a response from us. Well, that explains Shuffler’s actions and now we have consistency. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I will keep that in mind next time I see a statement like the one below.
Or maybe this is just the old “there’s no way out of this one, so I’ll declare it a troll” maneuver. Fair enough.
I declare this the final statement of the most long standing and effective troll ever known to cartoondom:
-You gents are still missing the point Pick, furball, bomb buildings, GV to your hearts content. There is no right way But keep in mind that how you treat the players in the game, good, bad or indifferent makes a difference. Don't expect a pat on the back if you show a lack of courtesy. If that bothers you, it's your problem. My own experience is that if you treat folks decently, the game is more fun. Again, as has been pointed out many times in this thread. This is just an opinion, not law. Do with it what you want.
Troll exposed. :D
P.S. And this is funny coming from one of the most disrespectful cartoon personalities of all time.
:aok to all of it
The hypocrisy in this thread has gotten to be too much…
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Wait, so... are we supposed to pick or not? I'm so confused!
Wiley.
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Wait, so... are we supposed to pick or not? I'm so confused!
Wiley.
Personal preference it seems, but i do like Corky's way of playing the game... i guess that comes from my AW days also :old:
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Wait, so... are we supposed to pick or not? I'm so confused!
Wiley.
pick what? our noses? our butts? our zits?
can't decide if we should pick, till we know what we;re picking. :noid
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P.S. And this is funny coming from one of the most disrespectful cartoon personalities of all time.
Aww, another squeaker with his feelings hurt. Go back to suckling Grizz's teet, little one. Keep it on the squad forums too.
Those whom I've helped and those who I've flown with know how respectful I really am to this game and the ideals it represents.
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Personal preference it seems, but i do like Corky's way of playing the game... i guess that comes from my AW days also :old:
i like the low fights. they're not common in the main arenas any more though. corky seems to have this magnet that draws the red guys down to him. i wish it were the same in mw, but i normally find them up high. for this reason, i started becoming one of the high flyers. granted, i've had a couple of great fights up there, but i more often than not found guys that would run away if i was at the same alt.
now, i go to the ava. no one runs away there. no one really picks there. rarely get ho'd, rammed(rammey rammed me once, bu5t i truly believe that was my sole fault), vulching is rare......and i've spent hours having fights where you were considered an alt monkey if you were above 5k alt.
i like it there.
:D
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Wait, so... are we supposed to pick or not? I'm so confused!
Wiley.
Two ways to look at this Wiley. Since I'm generally an optimist, I'm going to believe that in the end you deserve the most credit in this thread, at least for perpetuating it on and on and on. If that's the case, congrats. You hooked us all.
Now if I was a pessimist, I'd believe you are as dumb as a rock, since the general consensus has been the same since about page 3. Play how you want to play. If you are respectful and show a bit of courtesy to the other players in the game, more power to you. Should you choose not to, don't expect a pat on the back for it. So pick away knowing that depending on the circumstance folks may approve or disapprove. Whether that matters is up to you.
But as I said, I'm and optimist, I like to believe the best in folks. Nice work :aok
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Play how you want to play.
Great advice. I play the game with full expectation to be picked, horded, ganged, shot into a million pieces by the enemy every time i take off.
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Great advice. I play the game with full expectation to be picked, horded, ganged, shot into a million pieces by the enemy every time i take off.
you sure it was a million? were you able to count them? or did you have someone else count them/.?
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As the one link between both squads, I'm clearly to blame. If I was eliminated, none of this would happen and olive branches would be extended between all 3 countries. Then the game would cease to exist. Except for a monthly gathering to chat with friends and fly some formation. You need me.
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Great advice. I play the game with full expectation to be picked, horded, ganged, shot into a million pieces by the enemy every time i take off.
That's like a bad FOX news quote there Grizz. You only snipped what fit for you. Don't forget the respectful and courtesy to other players part too :)
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Two ways to look at this Wiley. Since I'm generally an optimist, I'm going to believe that in the end you deserve the most credit in this thread, at least for perpetuating it on and on and on. If that's the case, congrats. You hooked us all.
The only thing I really took issue with was the fact that the dueling advocates seemed to me to expect the battlefield to warp around their 1v1 as a rule, and also seemed to be on about how unselfish and morally awesome they were. I merely felt it was worthwhile to point out that expecting that was no less selfish than clearing someone's 12 in the wrong circumstances. I do admit I have a tendency to be a bit pointed when I perceive hypocrisy. I wouldn't say I was 'trolling' per se, I was just illustrating my arguments with a fair bit of color. :)
The entire thing's been moot since page 3, like you say.
Now if only I could get the cat/clothesline thing out of my head, it would be a good day...
Wiley.
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I like vultching planes on the runway with an m8. It may be lame but its funny as hell.
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I like vultching planes on the runway with an m8. It may be lame but its funny as hell.
you really wanna Pee some people off, do it in a bomb proof tiger!!!
Wiley <<MEOW>>
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I blame Mir.
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I've seen you guys do that a number of times. However, there was one element present that is not always present and when that element is absent a different standard is upheld. Would you care to guess what that element is?
Duct tape would work well.
These back-to-back posts are not getting nearly enough love.
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I blame Mir.
Don't you give mir my spotlight.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl So wtf is this, Zap is CO of the 80th AND is in the AoMs?! There's the friggin problem right there. You guys are all inbred. Yuck!
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Del is my sister, hlbly is our son.
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Del is my sister, hlbly is our son.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< is gettin sceeeered now
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hey pa!
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Del is my sister, hlbly is our son.
That makes Silat your father and your grandfather doesn't it? No wait! :)
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Mensa is my mom... :noid
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Silat, is my aunt that I'm not really suppose to talk about.
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Soups getting weird in here. I no longer want the spotlight.
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Soups getting weird in here. I no longer want the spotlight.
Like you have a choice? :)
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we call him ZAP because first he is your brother then ZAP! he is your uncle then ZAP he is your son then ZAP he is your cousin and ZAP then he is your mom :headscratch:
he gets around!!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:
:bolt:
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:lol
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anyone like ray stevens?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWztxTufJ8c
:D :noid
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anyone like ray stevens?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWztxTufJ8c
:D :noid
:huh :O :huh :headscratch:
:banana: :banana: :airplane: :joystick: :airplane:
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:huh :O :huh :headscratch:
:banana: :banana: :airplane: :joystick: :airplane:
i can't figure out if that means ya laughed, or if i confused ya. :devil
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i can't figure out if that means ya laughed, or if i confused ya. :devil
i laughed....i cried....i was confused......then i danced like a banana cause i realized i could just go play Aces High!!!! :banana: :banana:
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Don't forget the respectful and courtesy to other players part too :)
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/jesus-christ-thumbs-up.jpg)
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(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/jesus-christ-thumbs-up.jpg)
and they wouldnt have it any other way Grizzaluphogus!
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Something`s never change like the dweeb at 10k above the fur-ball waiting for his 2 sec of glory :airplane:
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i laughed....i cried....i was confused......then i danced like a banana cause i realized i could just go play Aces High!!!! :banana: :banana:
:aok
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Still waiting on the "Official MA Rules of Conduct", Shuffler. I realize you'd have to type it up, but since you hold it so dear to your cartoon heart, it shouldn't take very long. When can we expect it for community review? Thx. :D :aok
If it sticks we can call it "The Code of Shufflurabi" and things will be a lot more defined around here.
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Still waiting on the "Official MA Rules of Conduct", Shuffler. I realize you'd have to type it up, but since you hold it so dear to your cartoon heart, it shouldn't take very long. When can we expect it for community review? Thx. :D :aok
If it sticks we can call it "The Code of Shufflurabi" and things will be a lot more defined around here.
You would define this as "Ankle Humping" Grizz. Let it go
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You would define this as "Ankle Humping" Grizz. Let it go
I argue that your rules have too much gray area for practical use, but it is all speculation without an actual list of these rules of etiquette at hand. So maybe you guys should produce this so there is no misunderstanding ever again. Or, you guys can continue to say things like "don't pick 1v1s, but furballs are fair game" as if the two are clearly definable entities. If you want me to let it go I will, but I will certainly be chiming in again next time it is brought up, which will most likely be soon if history is any indicator?
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I argue that your rules have too much gray area for practical use, but it is all speculation without an actual list of these rules of etiquette at hand. So maybe you guys should produce this so there is no misunderstanding ever again. Or, you guys can continue to say things like "don't pick 1v1s, but furballs are fair game" as if the two are clearly definable entities. If you want me to let it go I will, but I will certainly be chiming in again next time it is brought up, which will most likely be soon if history is any indicator?
Not sure who 'you guys' are? Can you clarify who 'we' are? Why do you care about anyone elses 'rules'?
Grizz you can think whatever you want. But the contradiction for me is that you state you are going to play the game your way and don't care really about what others think about it. Yet you seem overly concerned with what 'we' think. Who cares? Why give anyone else such power if it really doesn't matter to you?
It's not going to stop me from talking about my approach to the game. No one says I'm right. Since we all have a choice on how we play, it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks. Sharing opinions is all this was ever about. Where it becomes ankle humping is if you've decided it's your job to argue with 'us' anytime 'we' comment on anything. I'm flattered that what 'we' think is that important though :)
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the only rule of fight club is that no one talks about fight clu.......aawwww dammit!! :noid :neener:
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Not sure who 'you guys' are? Can you clarify who 'we' are?
No need to name names. :angel:
Why do you care about anyone elses 'rules'?
I want to see if you can actually make a rule sheet with some definable parameters for a change. Here I'll start it off since this is a rather obvious rule even to me.. 1. If there is an isolated 1v1 where two aircraft seem to be having a good fight at least 5k away from the nearest enemy, you are to ask if they need a hand on range before intercepting. That's an easy one though.
Where it becomes ankle humping is if you've decided it's your job to argue with 'us' anytime 'we' comment on anything. I'm flattered that what 'we' think is that important though :)
So you aren't going to make a list? Ah, I see. It's a lot easier to be preachy and vague other than actually coming up with something objective and tangible. :aok
I still <3 you corky, I'm just ribbing, but I would like to see one of you put money where the mouth is for a change. :)
(and not get caught vulching and picking to your hearts delight when the element is not around)
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money is dirty. it's a bad idea to put it in ones mouth. :noid
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1b. when engaged in close air to air combat with multiple cons of both friendly and enemy persuasion (furball) it is reasonable and fair to take any shot of opportunity that should present itself, even should your target be involved in close combat with another friendly. this exception to the rule of noninterference shall not include shots of opportunity that are considered to be HO's
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OK "Corky's law of AH Air Combat" Posted a few pages back but I'll cut and paste.
Pick, furball, bomb buildings, GV to your hearts content. There is no right way But keep in mind that how you treat the players in the game, good, bad or indifferent makes a difference. Don't expect a pat on the back if you show a lack of courtesy. If that bothers you, it's your problem. My own experience is that if you treat folks decently, the game is more fun. Again, as has been pointed out many times in this thread. This is just an opinion, not law. Do with it what you want.
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+1 to Corky's law of AH air combat
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treat everyone like you want to be treated is the best policy. I try but sometimes i fall short. Either not thinking or just don't care. We pretty much know what to expect from one another, especially if you post in the boards alot. I respect the hell out of the way Dan plays the game....Grizz too. Does anyone think that if Grizz is hanging there in a big fat 262..or anything for that matter, he shouldn't get picked? :lol don't give my that chance cause i'll melt the barrels :lol If I don't get him he'll get me and most everyone else. My job is to get the bad guy and not let him get me.
The same goes for CorkyJr. If he's in a 1 on 1 and asks me to stay out well then i'm out. But if he's about to get it, i'll jump in because I need him for the next guy that comes along. I don't know if the way I do it is right or wrong, but every situation is different. That much I do know.
Yes, i want every fight to be a work of cartoon ACM excellence too, but unfortunately i'm not that skilled or well mannered sometimes. I don't expect anyone else to be all the time either though. Knowing what NOT to expect from your opponent is what I like about this game. It's kind of the point to all this. :headscratch:
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One day I will learn how to pick...till then though...I will just be a morsel for those who can :D
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treat everyone like you want to be treated is the best policy. I try but sometimes i fall short. Either not thinking or just don't care. We pretty much know what to expect from one another, especially if you post in the boards alot. I respect the hell out of the way Dan plays the game....Grizz too. Does anyone think that if Grizz is hanging there in a big fat 262..or anything for that matter, he shouldn't get picked? :lol don't give my that chance cause i'll melt the barrels :lol If I don't get him he'll get me and most everyone else. My job is to get the bad guy and not let him get me.
The same goes for CorkyJr. If he's in a 1 on 1 and asks me to stay out well then i'm out. But if he's about to get it, i'll jump in because I need him for the next guy that comes along. I don't know if the way I do it is right or wrong, but every situation is different. That much I do know.
Yes, i want every fight to be a work of cartoon ACM excellence too, but unfortunately i'm not that skilled or well mannered sometimes. I don't expect anyone else to be all the time either though. Knowing what NOT to expect from your opponent is what I like about this game. It's kind of the point to all this. :headscratch:
bolded. modify that slightly.
treat every player as if you're sitting right next to them.
i truly believe a good 90% of the players in here say/do the crap they do, 'cause they feel safe since they've got the protection of the intardnet. should you be sitting in the very same room as them on a different puter, it's pretty safe to say that nearly all the crap on 200 would dry up.
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:lol yeah. i remember giving BigPat a hard time nore then once and last nite he was on the rook side. He sounds like hes 7 foot tall lumberjack :eek: Now I'm a pretty good sized guy, 5'11" and 260, but BigPat sounds like he could rip my head off and shove it up my toejam or (whatever the filter chooses) :lol
If he was sitting next to me i'd keep my mouth shut and fly right. :( :rofl
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I'd like to know what the OP has to say after 21 pages of hijacks. :uhoh
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OK "Corky's law of AH Air Combat" Posted a few pages back but I'll cut and paste.
Pick, furball, bomb buildings, GV to your hearts content. There is no right way But keep in mind that how you treat the players in the game, good, bad or indifferent makes a difference. Don't expect a pat on the back if you show a lack of courtesy. If that bothers you, it's your problem. My own experience is that if you treat folks decently, the game is more fun. Again, as has been pointed out many times in this thread. This is just an opinion, not law. Do with it what you want.
I agree in principle but what does that really mean? I wish you could come up with something a little more defined. :)
and flotsom, nice addition to rule 1! I completely agree. :aok
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:lol yeah. i remember giving BigPat a hard time nore then once and last nite he was on the rook side. He sounds like hes 7 foot tall lumberjack :eek: Now I'm a pretty good sized guy, 5'11" and 260, but BigPat sounds like he could rip my head off and shove it up my toejam or (whatever the filter chooses) :lol
If he was sitting next to me i'd keep my mouth shut and fly right. :( :rofl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Ql1Nw5Qnc
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treat everyone like you want to be treated is the best policy. I try but sometimes i fall short. Either not thinking or just don't care. We pretty much know what to expect from one another, especially if you post in the boards alot. I respect the hell out of the way Dan plays the game....Grizz too. Does anyone think that if Grizz is hanging there in a big fat 262..or anything for that matter, he shouldn't get picked?
I wouldn't expect anything less! And when I am in my K4, I fully expect to get gang ho'd every sortie! The fun is trying to elude such fate. :)
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I agree in principle but what does that really mean? I wish you could come up with something a little more defined. :)
and flotsom, nice addition to rule 1! I completely agree. :aok
he is saying it is all in one's own attitude.
For example: Player A cherry picks Player B.
Player B could say: 'You suck, you picked me, you cheated, you cant fight by yourself, loser.'
or
Player B could say: 'Doh, I should have seen that coming. Good kill S!.'
The same result happens, Player B got picked. But with the friendly answer both players had fun, with the insults, niether had fun.
So all Dan is saying is if everyone made an effort to be more friendly (and even more so, tolerant) no matter why or where they died, the game would be more fun for everyone.
Correct me if I am wrong Corky!
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I'd like to know what the OP has to say after 21 pages of hijacks. :uhoh
I'd be very interested too but I don't think we'll see the OP posting on these boards anytime soon. :lol
ack-ack
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he is saying it is all in one's own attitude.
For example: Player A cherry picks Player B.
Player B could say: 'You suck, you picked me, you cheated, you cant fight by yourself, loser.'
or
Player B could say: 'Doh, I should have seen that coming. Good kill S!.'
The same result happens, Player B got picked. But with the friendly answer both players had fun, with the insults, niether had fun.
So all Dan is saying is if everyone made an effort to be more friendly (and even more so, tolerant) no matter why or where they died, the game would be more fun for everyone.
Correct me if I am wrong Corky!
Mm ok I think I understand. So basically every effort should be made to avoid the nastiness? Yea I agree! But I thought the point he was also making had more to do with fighting style? :headscratch:
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Mm ok I think I understand. So basically every effort should be made to avoid the nastiness? Yea I agree! But I thought the point he was also making had more to do with fighting style? :headscratch:
good point, perhaps i missunderstood that much.
So convert it to 'dont pick if you dont want to be picked'?
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So after 21 pages, we've come around to, 'It's nice to be nice'?
Wow.
In my experience, the difference between good tactics and cheap gangbanging and picking is quite often which side of the kill I'm on. :D
I expect no quarter from my opponents but as with any exciting gameplay, at the instant the stream of 20mm sends my plane spiraling to the ground, if the situation was less than advantageous to me, there is quite often a moment of extreme frustration. Where I think a lot of the people in the game would be a lot better off is to not let that spill onto the channels, PM or 200. It serves no purpose and just creates a lot of noise. I know quite a few people find that offputting, and I try to keep it to a minimum in my own behavior.
So really, it seems like we're not even talking about flying, we're talking about behavior during and after the fact, not necessarily what happened in the gameplay.
Wiley.
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good point, perhaps i missunderstood that much.
So convert it to 'dont pick if you dont want to be picked'?
Well nobody wants to be picked. And you are going to get picked regardless of if you pick or not, that tis the game. :)
How about... "If you pick, expect to get picked. If you don't pick, expect to get picked." :)
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the true sign of my suckage, is that no one has ever pm'd me accusing me of cheating, or of being a meanie poopiehead for killin their cartoon plane.
i almost got there once.....as i was accused on 200 of cheating when i hit a guys lancs from a manned gun.......
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So after 21 pages, we've come around to, 'It's nice to be nice'?
Wow.
In my experience, the difference between good tactics and cheap gangbanging and picking is quite often which side of the kill I'm on. :D
Exactly! From one side, a picker waiting on the fringe of ack range for a swoop in is a nasty person in RL who has the mentality of a felon (to paraphrase shuffler). However if you are the one doing it(to summarize Sunbat's film of shuffler), you are simply a victim of the development of the fight. :rofl
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the true sign of my suckage, is that no one has ever pm'd me accusing me of cheating, or of being a meanie poopiehead for killin their cartoon plane.
i almost got there once.....as i was accused on 200 of cheating when i hit a guys lancs from a manned gun.......
I suck and I've been accused of cheating... he was a putz :rofl
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he is saying it is all in one's own attitude.
For example: Player A cherry picks Player B.
Player B could say: 'You suck, you picked me, you cheated, you cant fight by yourself, loser.'
or
Player B could say: 'Doh, I should have seen that coming. Good kill S!.'
The same result happens, Player B got picked. But with the friendly answer both players had fun, with the insults, niether had fun.
I will have to disagree here. The other day I got tangled up with a 109F. I was in a 205 with 100% fuel so it was going to be hard to begin with. However, I turned around and got into it. There was traffic in the air but all above us at 5K or more. Needless to say I was losing bad but I wanted to see how long I would last or if he would make a mistake. He finally made one and I thought I could get angles on him. Same time a G6 shows up over our heads and he looked like he was coming in. I broke off to see what he was up to. He made a circle over head and started climbing away. That allowed me to engage the F4 again and 2 or 3 minutes latter I was hitting the ground in flames. I am not sure if the guy waved him off or if the G6 decided to just leave us alone. The comments on 200 were not <S> or good fight. The comments were "fun!". Had the G6 come in, non of us would have had fun in that situation no matter what I wrote on 200.
Sure he could have picked me if I did not see him or gang a low slow 205 ready to die but again, no fun, no accomplishment, and he would have been a sitting duck for the next guy coming in high.
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he is saying it is all in one's own attitude.
For example: Player A cherry picks Player B.
Player B could say: 'You suck, you picked me, you cheated, you cant fight by yourself, loser.'
or
Player B could say: 'Doh, I should have seen that coming. Good kill S!.'
The same result happens, Player B got picked. But with the friendly answer both players had fun, with the insults, niether had fun.
So all Dan is saying is if everyone made an effort to be more friendly (and even more so, tolerant) no matter why or where they died, the game would be more fun for everyone.
Correct me if I am wrong Corky!
That about covers it. I can't control any other player's choices, only my own. What I'd hope for is that folks would think for a second, before diving in on a fight and see if the guys already in the fight are doing OK without the unwanted or unneeded help. Think as sec before you start firing head on every chance you get. Think a sec before you decide to drop the CV or FHs at the only decent furball on the map. Think a sec before you drop bombs on the only decent GV fight on the map. If you choose to go ahead and do those things, regardless of how it might impact on other players having fun in the game, don't expect a 'WTG".
As I've said too many times in this thread already. Basic courtesy and respect of other players isn't asking to much in my opinion.
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That about covers it. I can't control any other player's choices, only my own. What I'd hope for is that folks would think for a second, before diving in on a fight and see if the guys already in the fight are doing OK without the unwanted or unneeded help. Think as sec before you start firing head on every chance you get. Think a sec before you decide to drop the CV or FHs at the only decent furball on the map. Think a sec before you drop bombs on the only decent GV fight on the map. If you choose to go ahead and do those things, regardless of how it might impact on other players having fun in the game, don't expect a 'WTG".
As I've said too many times in this thread already. Basic courtesy and respect of other players isn't asking to much in my opinion.
That explanation covers the black and white situations nicely. What about the shades of gray that basically encompass 99% of the fights in the MA?
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Never gonna be a perfect answer. Still comes down to how you treat people.
Only example I can think of for me was one night I came in below a fight. Sads was fighting a 109K and a Spit 16. I came into the fight from below and ended up shooting down Kappa and Agent. My first thought was that I'd blown it and had interrupted a fight. I took a second and PM'd Kappa saying I was sorry if I'd interrupted a set up fight between three Muppets. Turns out I hadn't, but it didn't kill me to at least check.
Often I'll be above a fight staying out and a mugging will end up happening anyway. It might be as simple as going on 200 and acknowledging he got mugged and telling him nice flying.
I think just talking to folks on 200 about where you are fighting etc can help. One thing about being in the same old 38G is once folks in the area I'm dying know it's my 38G and that I'm not going to face shoot, the HO shots decrease as they know they don't have to worry about it.
Never going to please everyone, and we've all been called names and accused of this that or the other thing in game, but I do believe how I approach the game impacts on how folks interact with me in the game.
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That explanation covers the black and white situations nicely. What about the shades of gray that basically encompass 99% of the fights in the MA?
I'll try....
Picking
It's the friendly's call. If he wants help, he gets it. If he doesn't, stay out. No need to write up guidelines, just use the radio and ask before you jump in.
Ganging
If there's one bandit, Don't be the second friendly in unless first friendly calls for help.
Furballing
Multiple bandits, multiple friendlies. 20v20 is a furball. is 2v2? or 3v2? I think there is a simple guideline to follow here:
If there is time to use the radio, you should.
If there isn't time to use the radio, you don't have to.
Vulching
can be done if a base capture is underway.
If no base capture, this should be avoided.
That's where I'd start. :salute
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I VULCHED all of the anti aircraft on a small base once. then i landed there, and waited for someone to come out, so we could have a ground fight. no one upped. a guy in a zeek shot me on the badguys runway. is that a vulch?
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I VULCHED all of the anti aircraft on a small base once. then i landed there, and waited for someone to come out, so we could have a ground fight. no one upped. a guy in a zeek shot me on the badguys runway. is that a vulch?
:lol
Uh...I have no idea. :D
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I VULCHED all of the anti aircraft on a small base once. then i landed there, and waited for someone to come out, so we could have a ground fight. no one upped. a guy in a zeek shot me on the badguys runway. is that a vulch?
:rofl bahahaha, you stole my move. It is best to wait on the rearm pad with your engine off lol
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:rofl bahahaha, you stole my move. It is best to wait on the rearm pad with your engine off lol
i'll try that next time. i was right out in the open on the runway. :noid
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I'll try....
Picking
It's the friendly's call. If he wants help, he gets it. If he doesn't, stay out. No need to write up guidelines, just use the radio and ask before you jump in.
Ganging
If there's one bandit, Don't be the second friendly in unless first friendly calls for help.
Furballing
Multiple bandits, multiple friendlies. 20v20 is a furball. is 2v2? or 3v2? I think there is a simple guideline to follow here:
If there is time to use the radio, you should.
If there isn't time to use the radio, you don't have to.
Vulching
can be done if a base capture is underway.
If no base capture, this should be avoided.
That's where I'd start. :salute
Good start. Using the radio constantly trying to ask if people need help every 2 minutes seems like a burden though. If my friendly is saddled I assume he needs help. Is that not the correct assumption for 95% of the player base?
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Wow! this is a LONG thread. Since the fire is burning so nicely, more fuel certainly won't hurt. The debate goes back to the very early AW days and hasn't changed in its basic character since day one. There are adherents to one way or another but the question has no definitive answer.
This "game" has no rules. If you doubt me, you can quote from the official AH rule book. Oh, there isn't one. :)
There is actually no way to create a set of rules that will spell out in black and white what would be allowable behavior in a way that cannot be interpreted differently at different times. The closest analogy I can think of is trying to play traffic cop at the Indy 500. Everyone there is trying to go as fast as they can, and how they go fast is immaterial as long as they don't physically endanger anyone.
Here there is no physical endangerment to consider and the object is to kill enemies. Trying to split philosophical hairs into smaller and smaller fragments may be amusing but ultimately futile.
The picker is the equivalent to an infantry sniper. At long distance and relatively low risk to himself, he kills. Dead is dead and there is no other way to term it. The kill is just as dead whether it was picked or it happened in an intense furball.
So for myself, and this is for myself only, this is how it breaks down.
1. All red planes are targets and should be shot.
2. There is no such thing as an even fight between two people, EVER. Trying to make is so is a waste of time and effort. The only even fight is against yourself and we call this schizophrenia :).
3. The object is to get kills and not be killed. (If you like getting killed, check into a clinic :). If you are setting up your fights to have an equal chance of being killed, hmm, do you see a problem in this? :))
4. A kill is a kill is a kill. There are no bad kills.
5. There is no inherently "nobler" way to get a kill. Thinking so creates frustration.
6. If you want a duel, go to the dueling arena, that's why it exists.
7. If you lose, suck it up and learn from it.
The only sins are:
1. Acting like a jerk.
2. Whining on 200 or PMing about how you would have won if only the killer didn't do X. It is NOT a matter whether the amount and intensity of the whine will undo history and make you not dead.
3. Talking in one way and acting in another so that the poor SOBs who listen to you become better kill fodder. This is disingenuous and makes you look like a jerk.
To that end, I don't listen to 200. In my opinion it is mostly a terrible waste of bandwidth.
On the other hand, I think Corky is absolutely right. The class with which you treat people in this competition is the measure of you as a person. Those without class won't get this (hence their problem). People will remember the class long after the kill is forgotten.
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/popcorn
Waiting for that act of congress to once and forall settle this pressing issue.
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Thank you for your honesty sir :salute
True that. :cheers:
:D
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Nice post rapier. It seems the two extreme groups are:
Group A: It's all about the fight
Group B: A kill is a kill
I'm probably somewhere in between the two extremes, but I love playing devil's advocate. I could just as easily tear apart Rapier's argument as I did shuffler's and corky's (please bite), but it would be just for show. It really all comes down to how you enjoy the game, and how you treat other players.
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I'm probably somewhere in between the two extremes,.
you heard it class...........
GRIZZ FINALY ADMITS THAT HE HANGS IN THE MIDDLE BUT GOES BOTH WAYS!!!!!!!
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
:bolt:
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you heard it class...........
GRIZZ FINALY ADMITS THAT HE HANGS IN THE MIDDLE BUT GOES BOTH WAYS!!!!!!!
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
:bolt:
What do you mean "finally"?
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What do you mean "finally"?
i mean in public! he always dances :banana: around the subject!
:bolt:
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I VULCHED all of the anti aircraft on a small base once. then i landed there, and waited for someone to come out, so we could have a ground fight. no one upped. a guy in a zeek shot me on the badguys runway. is that a vulch?
yesterday I was defending a base in a spit. I ran out of gas and was dead sticking it back. Just I neared the end of the runway, they captured it. I ditched just off the field and bailed out. I ran to the rearm pad and stood there waiting for someone to spawn on the runway. My plan was to run over and shoot the pilot in the head. Typhy straifed me first. :lol
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Nice post rapier. It seems the two extreme groups are:
Group A: It's all about the fight
Group B: A kill is a kill
I'm probably somewhere in between the two extremes, but I love playing devil's advocate. I could just as easily tear apart Rapier's argument as I did shuffler's and corky's (please bite), but it would be just for show. It really all comes down to how you enjoy the game, and how you treat other players.
LOL God of the keyboard and the virtual skies too! I had no idea I got torn up. It's ok though. I can take it :) We do need t work on your comprehension a bit though as you seem to want to complicate this far too much. I thought I'd made it clear the last time you wanted a specific 'law'. Oh well. Last try. I'm out after this as as near as I can tell this is about making this the longest thread possible.
One last try, with an illustration. Photo from the Minnesota Rennisance Festival last Saturday. I was working but my wife took our youngest, Matthew to see the sights. A bunch of the folks were dressed up as pirates. I liked this picture of Matthew meeting a cartoon pirate for the first time.
So lets apply this to the neverending discussion here. Matthew has just ventured into the cartoon pirate world for the first time. After wandering around in his stroller for a bit, Matthew (The noob) meets the veteran cartoon pilot. Matthew is all eyes at this point and has no clue how a cartoon pirate acts. The cartoon pirate is left with choices. He could dump mock ale on Matthew's head, tip over his stroller, and slash him with his replica sword to prove what a deadly cartoon pirate he is.(This being the Grizz pirate) Or, as this cartoon pirate did, he could remember his is just a cartoon pirate, and that there really isn't a pirate ship in the middle of Minnesota. He chose this route and spent time with Matthew and introduced him to some other veteran cartoon pirates, making the first experience in the cartoon pirate world a good one(This is how the Corky pirate would go about it). Is the veteran cartoon pirate a better cartoon pirate then Matthew? Absolutely. But based on his actions and those of the other cartoon pirates towards Matthew, I would guess that Matthew will be much more receptive to seeing cartoon pirates again and maybe over time learning something about real pirates too.
Instert cartoon pilot for cartoon pirate and you pretty much have it.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Matthew/Pirate2.jpg)
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LOL God of the keyboard and the virtual skies too! I had no idea I got torn up. It's ok though. I can take it :) We do need t work on your comprehension a bit though as you seem to want to complicate this far too much. I thought I'd made it clear the last time you wanted a specific 'law'. Oh well. Last try. I'm out after this as as near as I can tell this is about making this the longest thread possible.
One last try, with an illustration. Photo from the Minnesota Rennisance Festival last Saturday. I was working but my wife took our youngest, Matthew to see the sights. A bunch of the folks were dressed up as pirates. I liked this picture of Matthew meeting a cartoon pirate for the first time.
So lets apply this to the neverending discussion here. Matthew has just ventured into the cartoon pirate world for the first time. After wandering around in his stroller for a bit, Matthew (The noob) meets the veteran cartoon pilot. Matthew is all eyes at this point and has no clue how a cartoon pirate acts. The cartoon pirate is left with choices. He could dump mock ale on Matthew's head, tip over his stroller, and slash him with his replica sword to prove what a deadly cartoon pirate he is.(This being the Grizz pirate) Or, as this cartoon pirate did, he could remember his is just a cartoon pirate, and that there really isn't a pirate ship in the middle of Minnesota. He chose this route and spent time with Matthew and introduced him to some other veteran cartoon pirates, making the first experience in the cartoon pirate world a good one(This is how the Corky pirate would go about it). Is the veteran cartoon pirate a better cartoon pirate then Matthew? Absolutely. But based on his actions and those of the other cartoon pirates towards Matthew, I would guess that Matthew will be much more receptive to seeing cartoon pirates again and maybe over time learning something about real pirates too.
Instert cartoon pilot for cartoon pirate and you pretty much have it.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Matthew/Pirate2.jpg)
hehehe Nice picture! You know I <3 you corky. I'm just ribbing ya. :salute
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I dunno Guppy... I still think Mathew looks like he's about to pop that cartoon pirate right in the nose.
:)
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I dunno Guppy... I still think Mathew looks like he's about to pop that cartoon pirate right in the nose.
:)
:rofl That was the first thing that popped into my head.
Dan, you've got yourself a really cute kid, I hope he enjoyed meeting the pirate.
ack-ack
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I will have to disagree here. The other day I got tangled up with a 109F. I was in a 205 with 100% fuel so it was going to be hard to begin with. However, I turned around and got into it. There was traffic in the air but all above us at 5K or more. Needless to say I was losing bad but I wanted to see how long I would last or if he would make a mistake. He finally made one and I thought I could get angles on him. Same time a G6 shows up over our heads and he looked like he was coming in. I broke off to see what he was up to. He made a circle over head and started climbing away. That allowed me to engage the F4 again and 2 or 3 minutes latter I was hitting the ground in flames. I am not sure if the guy waved him off or if the G6 decided to just leave us alone. The comments on 200 were not <S> or good fight. The comments were "fun!". Had the G6 come in, non of us would have had fun in that situation no matter what I wrote on 200.
Sure he could have picked me if I did not see him or gang a low slow 205 ready to die but again, no fun, no accomplishment, and he would have been a sitting duck for the next guy coming in high.
I fully agree with that. My example was just that, an example of attitude and how the choices we make reflect fun or frustration back on ourselves. Your example is probably much more what Corky meant, like grizz pointed out to me.
At the end of the thread we will be left with only one viable option. Reap what you sew, send fun to others it will be returned. Send out hate and you wont enjoy yourself much. Again as an example, I am not talking about you personaly Ded. You are one of the people I always respected alot for their fair attitude.
It's not all about being 'nice'. It's about respect. We can easily disagree whilst remaining respectfull and to the point. Show me a player of this game who never cherry picked anyone and I will gladly promise not to pick them ever again. Other than that, it's all fair in love and war. We have a choice how to behave, nobody is going to make us. So it is up to us to show that with freedom we can still make the better choice between respect and insult. Make the choice between selfishly ruining a 1 on 1 fight or enjoy watching it from a respectful distance. Accept it when we die, and focus on the fact we died. Not focus on the fact of why or how we died. Take care of our own attiude, and suddenly nothing else bothers us making the game so much more fun.
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this thread has perfect timing for halloween.
it's like the zombie thread from hell that can't even die.....and it keeps trying to eat brains.
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Wait till we get metal chairs like they do in wrestling, YeeHaa! Misfire out!
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DOH!!!!!!!!! Curse you Corky, you dropped the cute kid nooook. Low blow, low blow! :D
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<<BRRRAAAAAIIIINNNNSSSSSSSSSSS>>
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DOH!!!!!!!!! Curse you Corky, you dropped the cute kid nooook. Low blow, low blow! :D
Yeah no kiddin, how can we troll you after you post stuff like that? :lol
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<<BRRRAAAAAIIIINNNNSSSSSSSSSSS>>
is it coming for you first????
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is it coming for you first????
Unlikely.....
:D
:bolt:
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:rofl nice timing Soul, sorry Cap but that was funny!
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:rofl nice timing Soul, sorry Cap but that was funny!
no sweat.....i laughed my bellybutton off just as a customer walked in............ :rofl :aok
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Great, "picking zombies", I see an aviation horror film in the making here.
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no sweat.....i laughed my bellybutton off just as a customer walked in............ :rofl :aok
shoulda seen my friends when i burst out laughing in class at school :rofl