Light gun package or 4x 20mm will do.. Those 30's aren't worth the performance hit unless you're certain the only thing you'll be engaging are bombers.
and even whirl around low on the deck and still get kills.
190 blows!
it can't even turn with bf110G
Sure it can, it's all in how you use the plane.
Perrine do you even play the game?
A8 sux. :noid
I fly with the light gun package on the A5, is that what you mean, or are you talking about?
yah, wep is what makes the 190 so powerful, but the A5 does wonders in the vert that makes fighting spits a real challange and a joy.
I like the A8 package with those 20's. However, ingame every time I see a A8 I can expect a hoe then run. Rarely do I ever see a pilot fly the bird...
It was made to be a bomber killer (lil monsters') is what I call them.. :salute(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/3/0/1566039.jpg)[/center](http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/ra5cimages/dortenmannprofilett_1.jpg)[/center]
It was made to be a bomber killer (lil monsters') is what I call them.. :salute
How did you arrive at that conclusion?They put protective armor plates over the engine. Then added 30mm to it... That enough info?
They put protective armor plates over the engine. Then added 30mm to it... That enough info?
The Messerschmitt 109 [sic] and the British Spitfire, the two fastest fighters in world at the time we began work on the Fw 190, could both be summed up as a very large engine on the front of the smallest possible airframe; in each case armament had been added almost as an afterthought. These designs, both of which admittedly proved successful, could be likened to racehorses: given the right amount of pampering and easy course, they could outrun anything. But the moment the going became tough they were liable to falter. During World War I, I served in the cavalry and in the infantry. I had seen the harsh conditions under which military equipment had to work in wartime. I felt sure that a quite different breed of fighter would also have a place in any future conflict: one that could operate from ill-prepared front-line airfields; one that could be flown and maintained by men who had had received only short training; and one that could absorb a reasonable amount of battle damage and still get back. This was the background thinking behind the Focke-Wulf 190; it was not to be a racehorse but a Dienstpferd, a cavalry horse.
Ok, so they armored the FW 190.
Surprise, so did all other nations to their planes too. They added armor, self sealing fuel tanks and other equipment to make the planes more survivable.
Armanent? First production 190s had 4 x 7,92 machine guns and 2 x 20 mm cannons. Not unusually grand armanent.
All other nations also upgraded the weapons their various types had. So some variants of FW 190 got 30 mm? So what? That is a later modification. Wouldn't you think they put more and bigger guns to the first versions already, if they designed it for bomber killer?
Here's a secret: FW 190 was designed as front line fighter, to supplement Me 109. But it was so capable, it could be used for many roles.
By your own definition FW 190 was designed to be ground attack airplane, as it got more armor and was equipped bombs/rockets. That is enough info, right?
Kurt Tank himself, though...
They put protective armor plates over the engine. Then added 30mm to it... That enough info?
The Fw190A terrorized the RAF on a fighter-v-fighter level for over a year. The RAF struggled madly to get spits re-engined (producing the spit9 because the spit8 was taking too long) and the spit5s were being dominated.
Go try to dominate the Spit Vs with the 190A5 in AH. Enjoy.
- oldman
it is what it is, but what it is, is not what it was!
Go try to dominate the Spit Vs with the 190A5 in AH. Enjoy.
- oldman
Go try to dominate the Spit Vs with the 190A5 in AH. Enjoy.
- oldman
Go try to dominate the Spit Vs with the 190A5 in AH. Enjoy.
- oldman
So you're joining Theorism or whatever his name was in his calims that the 190's are improperly modeled? Good luck with that.
When using the A5's strengths (speed, climbrate & roll), the Spit V did not have much chances.
I've noticed that the A8's wingtips like to drop more suddenly in the event of a stall than the A5. I guessing the game's fight model is essentially a set of vectors across the wing, estimating the lift, etc... I wonder if the wing was subdivided with more vectors, if it's wingtip stalls would be as drastic and sudden as they are in game, assuming that the wing is modeled such that the whole wing doesn't stall at the same time but rather the wing is subdivided into sections and each subdivision determines if its AoA is to great and stalls individually.
I need you to teach me then. I've been working on the A8 for years, and still consider it just a notch above the P-40B as an iron dog.
So what's the secret?
- oldman
You HO them, wasn't that obvious? :lol
For the MA the A8 can't compete in a real fight except to HO, I've seen guys attempting to dogfight in them but once they lost the ability to turn nose on and HO (which happens very quickly) the A8 is screwed, but it never was a dogfighter to begin with.
I've noticed that the A8's wingtips like to drop more suddenly in the event of a stall than the A5.
So I took both out for a spin today, and forgot how much I like them! :devil A5 did good with F4Fs, Spits, and La's, better than I remember! And the A8 blew apart anything that crossed it's nose! Actually tried the 30mm's on it and they did great! Just wish they had moar ammo!!!
EDIT:: How do you guys think an A8 would fair with just the pair of 30mm's and 13mm's? Just food for thought. :aok
Really? Ask waystin about the day we dogfought A8 vs F6F-5. Ask XBrit about the day we fought 2 on 1 Spit and F4U against my A8. Ask JB11 about our A8 vs K4 fight (to be honest he ran out of fuel after 3-5 minutes). There's really too many to count but those immediately spring to mind. None involved HOs. Not saying I won't take a HO shot in the A8 because I'm always carrying the big gun package and always have convergence set at 650 yards. If you're stupid enough to let me do it with that combo I will.
While I admit the A8 is largely outclassed in most dogfights it's much more capable than you give it credit for which is ultimately a reflection on your piloting ability. Dogfighting Spits in a 110G-2 with the big gun package is much more challenging than doing it in an A8. The A8 is excellent at the flat scissors overshoot once the "advantage" is lost. Nothing can roll with it and keeping wings in-plane is impossible for anything other than another FW. Even then human reaction time gives the "defender" the advantage and when you fly by and lose your tail it's definately not a HO.
You wouldn't perchance have any films would you?
wrongway
Wrong.
Simply... WRONG.
The P-47 weighs a lot more than the 190A8. The Typhie is an even worse pig, and yet both of these aircraft are quite capable air to air.
I've dogfought the 190A8 before, light, heavy, and in between. I don't just go for HOs, I don't just look for 1v1s or picks. Throughout numerous engagements it is quite a capable plane. It's outclassed for sure, but to pretend it can only HO and run is sad and reflective more on the pilot than the plane.
Really? Ask waystin about the day we dogfought A8 vs F6F-5. Ask Brit about the day we fought 2 on 1 Spit and F4U against my A8. Ask JB11 about our A8 vs K4 fight (to be honest he ran out of fuel after 3-5 minutes). There's really too many to count but those immediately spring to mind. None involved Hos. Not saying I won't take a HO shot in the A8 because I'm always carrying the big gun package and always have convergence set at 650 yards. If you're stupid enough to let me do it with that combo I will.
While I admit the A8 is largely outclassed in most dogfights it's much more capable than you give it credit for which is ultimately a reflection on your piloting ability. Dogfighting Spits in a 110G-2 with the big gun package is much more challenging than doing it in an A8. The A8 is excellent at the flat scissors overshoot once the "advantage" is lost. Nothing can roll with it and keeping wings enplane is impossible for anything other than another FW. Even then human reaction time gives the "defender" the advantage and when you fly by and lose your tail it's definitely not a HO.
I was also wondering if you still played this game? I haven't seen you around in a long time, checking back on your stats it seems you spend more time GVing manning field guns and flying various spitfires, and even when you go back to when you did fly the A8 a lot the majority of your kills are of buffs! (an original concept there).
Sorry bald your starting to remind me of nemesis here :D
I want some shiny new films of you tearing it up in the MA in the 190A8 so you can shut my big yap, and prove me wrong! :devil .......
Next time you up get a film of these magical encounters for us all to share! film never lies, if you've won in an A8 its because your opponent is poor, you picked them, lack of SA, or Energy/alt advantage, you Hoed them (front deflection bull included) or some other bull like running out of fuel.
You don't honestly believe that? (stick not the plane)
I can't find a use for the 190-F8.
Again, this is only my personal experience with this ride, and I am far from an expert pilot. The A8 is not to everyone's liking, but I like to fly it, and I think it's made me a better pilot in the process.
In fact the A5 F8 A8 all struggled against even planes slower than them.
Muzzy I'd agree if it had at least one reasonable flight attribute to exploit, your going to say it can roll but fact is roll without top of the range power is useless, its not quick doesn't climb well, doesn't turn well, and has tricky handling. The only thing it really has going for it is an awesome guns package getting it to point in a direction other than a HO is the problem.
Removing practically all the attributes needed to fight and believing that over time something that is set in stone will magically change with practice and that you'll be a better pilot for it is banging your head against a brick wall. If you jumped into an A5 and done better its no surprise, its because it has better flight characteristics than the A8 but that hasn't made you better.
I actually done a lot of testing with the A8 and all the 190s and the D9 was the only one that could truly dogfight against a varied planeset and a decent opponent simply because it was faster than the others. In fact the A5 F8 A8 all struggled against even planes slower than them.
I like the A8 package with those 20's. However, ingame every time I see a A8 I can expect a hoe then run. Rarely do I ever see a pilot fly the bird...
It was made to be a bomber killer (lil monsters') is what I call them.. :salute(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/3/0/1566039.jpg)[/center](http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/ra5cimages/dortenmannprofilett_1.jpg)[/center]
sure, given the other planes were flown by superior pilots. i have no problems TnBing with most sticks in most planes in an A5. if u do it right, even a spit16 or a N1K will wind up in the tower wondering how the eff did that 190 just outturn me? it didn't. it outrolled you and outflew you. just like any plane, if the A series 190s are flown to strength (no, not just boom once and run) I.E. phenomenal roll rate, awesome guns, they can be as unbeatable as any other plane. Keep practicing Muzzy, it will come. Not as fast as if you were flying a Spit or a N1K all the time, but rest assured, it will come.
sure, given the other planes were flown by superior pilots. i have no problems TnBing with most sticks in most planes in an A5. if u do it right, even a spit16 or a N1K will wind up in the tower wondering how the eff did that 190 just outturn me?
Again what I'm interested in is taking away all the reasons for winning by chance or circumstance ...
Why? That exists in the MA and I'd venture is a reason most of us play online rather than against offline AI. If you're good enough to dictate a fight against a majority of players in a double inferior aircraft why not?
BTW, went out to film Friday night but got killed trying to scissor a Hog then flew base defense in the A8 in a multi plane engagement, never climbing above 10K between waves of incoming attackers. Got a kill or two I think but forgot to film. :frown: I disagree with Muzzy; The A8 is a good preditor in a multi plane environment (multiples on both sides... base defense or furball).
perv,
you will never run into "equal" pilots in game. I have out flown my share of "better" planes while in the lowly A8...and I so thoroughly enjoy it. It was one of the last way I found enjoyment in game.
It has never been about the better plane, its about the better pilot.
I will say, youj can take a noob pilot, put him in a "better" plane and he will have a chance against most pilots in a mediocre to lower plane.
Why? That exists in the MA and I'd venture is a reason most of us play online rather than against offline AI. If you're good enough to dictate a fight against a majority of players in a double inferior aircraft why not?
BTW, went out to film Friday night but got killed trying to scissor a Hog then flew base defense in the A8 in a multi plane engagement, never climbing above 10K between waves of incoming attackers. Got a kill or two I think but forgot to film. :frown: I disagree with Muzzy; The A8 is a good preditor in a multi plane environment (multiples on both sides... base defense or furball).
POOP~!!!!!!!! you posted when i did!!
A real fight ok I'll give a bit of lee way, a realstic scernario if you will, you've been furballing over a base all friendlys have died but you are at an alt and speed were the remaining cons cannot follow you and give up the chase as you head home. On the way home in your A8 you see a dot co alt, the plane comes into icon and is a Spit 9 piloted by a competent player. How do you think the fight will go down? Given that your greatest strength is your guns and your chances of victory lay in shooting him head on? As diverse as the MA is there will always be a time when you have to actually fight with no help from chance a real fight.
My orginal statement which kicked it off.
"For the MA the A8 can't compete in a real fight except to HO, I've seen guys attempting to dogfight in them but once they lost the ability to turn nose on and HO (which happens very quickly) the A8 is screwed, but it never was a dogfighter to begin with."
With the notable exception of IrishOne, I don't think anyone disagrees with this. The A8 is a competent picker and a good HO'er, but taking it into combat in a situation where it can't pick, HO or run it doesn't last long.
The reason I keep chewing on the A8 weed is because JG26 (the real ones) did very well in low-level plane-to-plane fighting with the A8, under enough different circumstances that they couldn't just be all pick-HO-run engagements. You couldn't duplicate this in AW, and - so far as I can tell - you can't duplicate it in AH2, either.
- oldman
With the notable exception of IrishOne, I don't think anyone disagrees with this.
Actually a Light gun package, low fuel and low weight A-8 is a very competent dog-fighter. Sure, you don't have many options but it's doable. You have to fully understand the plane's limits, ACM and your opponents airframe as well.
pervert what your asking for is virtually impossible a scenario to create.
even in the DA you cant get both planes and pilots in absolute 0 advantage environment at the moment of the merge. one will always be that little bit faster or that little bit better angled or the alt of the merge will be more fortuitous for one than the other etc etc.
you will never be able to remove random moments of chance, and in reality i think the first sign of a great pilot is his ability to recognize and then exploit that moment of randomness to create his own advantage.
here is an example of my theory. now i am not saying i am great, or even good, what i am saying is that the random creation of circumstances that will benefit one player over the other cannot be discounted.
i have just returned to base, my K4 was damaged on the left wing and tail, both the aileron and the flap on my left wing were destroyed and my rudder was inoperable. (the damage is the random in this story).
as i am low and slow heading into the run way a 262 appears at the other end of it booming towards me. he is forward and slightly to my left side. my first thought was "SH*T i am dead"! the 262 rudders and fires! i watch his 30mm bundles of love pass just over and slightly to the left of my canopy. as i watch the trajectory of his tracers a strange thought hits me,
on impulse i tap the button and drop my flaps, i let go of my stick so as to not jerk the nose of my plane and with my precision trigger located on my throttle i tap off a quick burst of rounds. because my left flap was damaged the dropping of my flaps accomplished lifting my nose slightly and twisting it to the left, my rounds smashed into his left motor and wing as we passed each other i watched the explosion and then smoke billowing out of his left jet.
an instant later i get the message "You have shot down "so and so"". i manage to circle the field and then land.
now 999 times out of 1000 i would have died in that engagement, had i attempted any other evasive type of maneuver being that low and that slow and with that much damage, i would likely have augured in. but random circumstance and an impulse that told me to try allowed me to take the advantage away from the 262 and to monopolize on it.
so back to my point, 0 random circumstance IS an absolute part of the game and its the ability of the better pilots to not only create it but to exploit it.
I have watched IrishOne fly the A5, engage multiple cons and come out victorious by his skill at recognizing and exploiting the random circumstances that the fluidity of this game creates.
Exploitation of randomness is the ultimate ACM. it is the one skill that will serve you better in the end than any built in modeling of any aircraft.
POOP~!!!!!!!! you posted when i did!!
no matter my post still holds true even in the example you gave. a good pilot will create his own random acts of chance by baiting and maneuvering the other pilot into a place that will allow for exploitation of an angle or speed or one of the many other circumstances that will allow one to prevail against another.
With the notable exception of IrishOne, I don't think anyone disagrees with this. The A8 is a competent picker and a good HO'er, but taking it into combat in a situation where it can't pick, HO or run it doesn't last long.
The reason I keep chewing on the A8 weed is because JG26 (the real ones) did very well in low-level plane-to-plane fighting with the A8, under enough different circumstances that they couldn't just be all pick-HO-run engagements. You couldn't duplicate this in AW, and - so far as I can tell - you can't duplicate it in AH2, either.
- oldman
I think I still have a film of Urchin swatting Spits out of the sky like flies in an A5 at furball lake. Not sure if he'd mind if I posted it or not. I'll take a look this weekend. IIRC he was one on three or more. It was masterfull flying.
I think I still have a film of Urchin swatting Spits out of the sky like flies in an A5 at furball lake. Not sure if he'd mind if I posted it or not. I'll take a look this weekend. IIRC he was one on three or more. It was masterfull flying.
190 blows!
it can't even turn with bf110G
... and turning, young padawan, is only a single attribute. If you use that alone to measure a plane's worth, you've missed out on a whole realm of air combat. :)
of course... but it would be a nice bonus if 190 had a bit some, but no.
i also recognize there's more downsides to 110G too... obviously its large provile and acceleration compared to 109 and 190
like what real life soviet airmen seen, 190s only shoot & scoot, attempt at HO-ing and when in unfavorable position they run away... and that's how I saw it too in MA and furballing area in DA.
of course... but it would be a nice bonus if 190 had a bit some, but no.
i also recognize there's more downsides to 110G too... obviously its large provile and acceleration compared to 109 and 190
like what real life soviet airmen seen, 190s only shoot & scoot, attempt at HO-ing and when in unfavorable position they run away... and that's how I saw it too in MA and furballing area in DA.
"but it would be a nice bonus if 190 had a bit some, but no." what does this mean???? :headscratch:
Which means the 190 is great for BnZ. That's what it's for.
remember that the 190 caught a gigantic whack with the nerf bat (along with the P-51) in the same patch that turned the 109 and F4U into amazing turny birds.Its a completely different game now Urchin. You will get your rectum fed to you via the esophogus. At least until you find your old "legs" as it were...... :banana:
In my heyday the 190a5 could pretty much turn with an F4U, but the 190a8 was always rather brickish.
(this applies to 190A and F only)no 109 is a match for the La-5 but the K-4 with a decent pilot
but if the enemy is La-5 (in-game) and you're near deck then it's a chasing game, and LA-5 slowly close the gap
at least 109Gs (excluding g-14) can go toe to toe and tangle with la-5 :aok
no 109 is a match for the La-5 but the K-4 with a decent pilot
190's dont really stand a chance against the La-5 either unless it has big advantages
1. Fw-190s is a simple plane to fly and operate... so fighting in it should also be kept simple
2. The FW-190 is a small aircraft period. It flys like its huge, It hits like its huge but in dimensions it's tiny
who here agrees with these 2 lines? :aok
I have to say the La-5 is not as "all powerfull" as I may have made it sound
Nor is the 190 as bad as you made it sound. You stack up the speeds and climbs of the 190a5/8 vs the la5 and other specs and they're not that different. The La might be marginally faster below 12k, but the 190s are equally faster above 12k. Granted the A8 climb speed is terrible in-game, but it's modeled overweight by 250 lbs or so, and whenever this gets fixed may prove a worthy replacement for the A5. The 190s arguably have a better weapons load (even on the minimum loadout) allowing better firing time at targets, opening fire further out, "walking" rounds to target, etc.. The roll rate is not to be discounted, either, as it allows for evasives at even high speeds.if i had the patience to type a bunch, this would be it. my sentiments exactly :aok
In anything other than a 1v1 setup the 190s will be considerable foes.
Further, your "film or it sucks" comments kind of make me laugh. I know I've done a ton of crap in a 190A8 that I wished afterwards I had film to prove. Doesn't mean they didn't happen. I once fought a yak9 to a standstill for 5+ minutes in a 190A8. He wan't half bad either. I would have had him until I screwed up and lost sight. Had a squaddie come in scare him for a split second then reacquired and finished him off.
I've out-rolled spit16s to get them to overshoot and popped them point blank. Didn't get film of that either. Whoops, no film.
I've barreled into furballs, snagged several kills before running out of 30mms (yep, 500lbs extra weight in my wings) and ended up mixing it up and getting out alive. D'oh, no film!
Just recently I was in a gigantic furball from 15k to the deck and managed not only to get several 1v1s with an N1K2, but out turned the plane, out verticaled it, and in the end killed it.
I think you'll see my name amongst those landing multiple 190A8 kills in the MAs (when I can fly anymore). I am not the best but I would say I am expereinced enough to vouch for it. As much as the Spitv is not the best but still lethal, as much as the p47 is not the best but still lethal, the Fw190A8 is still quite very lethal. Maybe you just need some more stick time to appreciate it?
In anything other than a 1v1 setup the 190s will be considerable foes.We agree on something?? gasp! :D
Further, your "film or it sucks" comments kind of make me laugh.Kinda laugh? Your excuses for not taking some time to go make a film to prove me wrong make me laugh! ;)
I know I've done a ton of crap in a 190A8 that I wished afterwards I had film to prove. Doesn't mean they didn't happen. I once fought a yak9 to a standstill for 5+ minutes in a 190A8. He wan't half bad either. I would have had him until I screwed up and lost sight. Had a squaddie come in scare him for a split second then reacquired and finished him off.
I've out-rolled spit16s to get them to overshoot and popped them point blank. Didn't get film of that either. Whoops, no film.autofilm function, enable it you'll never miss the action again :aok
I've barreled into furballs, snagged several kills before running out of 30mms (yep, 500lbs extra weight in my wings) and ended up mixing it up and getting out alive. D'oh, no film!
Just recently I was in a gigantic furball from 15k to the deck and managed not only to get several 1v1s with an N1K2, but out turned the plane, out verticaled it, and in the end killed it.
I think you'll see my name amongst those landing multiple 190A8 kills in the MAs (when I can fly anymore). I am not the best but I would say I am experienced enough to vouch for it. As much as the Spitv is not the best but still lethal, as much as the p47 is not the best but still lethal, the Fw190A8 is still quite very lethal. Maybe you just need some more stick time to appreciate it?
this debate is ridiculous. it seems now to be a matter of personal opinion. i know what it can because i've done it. after my PC crashed i have no films to show, not that i need to anyways. maybe it's best you all keep the opinion you have of the A8, and let the guys in the know have all the fun with it. :aok :salute :bolt:
Its not personal opinion on my part I've spent hours upon hours flying the thing in 1v1s and on its own over the years, then watched the films back. Which is why I'm pretty confident you or the other 3 couldn't produce one eithier! The figures just don't add up.
read above. i lost all my films. i had one in particular i would have loved to post where a pretty well known spixteen stick bounced my A8, with the spit16 having the alt and E. after 3 or so turns i blasted him in a crossing shot. no film, as i have NO films whatsoever, but check in the screenshots thread. there is a pretty good pic of it. it doesn't do the fight justice as a whole, but the spit16 and I sure know what happened ;) just because it doesn't add up for you doesn't mean it won't add up for someone else. you have to understand that your perception of the way things work isn't law. it's your perception. and i can almost read your mind here, you are going to post that i'm using my PC crashing as an excuse for not having film. no matter what you say, you are not going to win or lose this arguement, as you will never be able to make me see what you see, and visa-versa. argue it all you want, be as confident as you think you can be. doesn't change a thing.
Winning losing, an insightful take on things. I'm not here to change your mind or the other A8 pilots who post amazing recollections, hopefully someone else a new player with a grasp on basic reasoning will read it and see none of you produced the goods so to speak. And it will discourage people posting the baseless waffle that surrounds this plane regarding its suitability for a 1v1.
I like the perception bit you added there but you've actually got a bit confused there, you see if we both watch the facts ie a film. There is really no need for 'perception' its there in black and white, unless your hallicatining you will see and read the same figures I do in a film, you and others are the ones dealing in perception here, I want the facts a film of the engagment.
Pervert, it is plenty suitable in the main arena, I have plenty of film to prove this. I will post one i have in mind later just for u. The average main arena pilot sucks, a vet can make the A8 dance against him. It will be a challenge for the vet to win the fight but it is definitely possible if the vet engages in perfect acm/throttle work, and the average ma pilot flies like an average ma pilot.
As for DAing against other vets, yeah the A8 will be lucky to get one shot before he is ready to get man handled. The plane is clearly a tank, but I think the point is, it can still be successful in the right hands in the Main arena, aka, The Baby Seal arena.
If you have skills, you can make the A8 dance and hang with any average MA pilot in any plane.same can be said for any plane armed with forward firing guns.
You obviously haven't read far back enough in the post, you are in effect agreeing with me here while trying to disprove what you think I'm saying, although I understand the thread is going on a bit now. Pilot was one of the criteria I have no doubt you and Irish can 'pwn the n00bs' in an A8. Post your film anyway and lets have a look at it, I'm growing tired of speculation.
http://disrupts.com/public/Griz/2v1 A8 Pen.AF (http://dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/2v1 A8 Pwn.ahf)
I'd have to question the quality of the opponents, but non the less its nice displacement roll flying to get the snapshots, we fly quite a similar style.
Indeed this is the same style that I try ed on the A5 and A8 I would have the odd success due to an opponent trying to frantically pull piper on plane with excess speed, but by and large against the better pilots then would just go into a vert turn after the initial overshoot were the A8 had no prayer of reaching them.
Watching my films back the difference was always speed and engine power, what worked in the 190D would not do so in the A8 it simply ran out of pep and was unable to recover.
Does this convince me that an A8 is a capable dogfighter? No, it does tell me that a superior pilot in an inferior plane can beat an inferior pilot in a superior plane, but I already knew that. I do however appreciate the fact you were the only one to attempt to post a film for the sake of the debate, it was a enjoyable view non the less cheers. :salute
Doesn't matter what you give him. He's set his mind to the fact the A8 is a deathtrap, nothing you show him will get any response other than "that's not what I meant because _______ (fill in the blank)"...
And as for his hilarious attempt at "the facts" (lolzz!!!11!1one!) from films? Sounds more like thorsim's nonsense to me.
Not me :lol
Unless you really want to fly the 190s because for some reason you WANT to, it isn't like they are the best at anything.
i fly it because out of all the WWII planes i grew up loving, the 190 always stood out to me. been my favorite plane since i was a kid :) and after flying the crap out of it, i know that any of them can compete in the MA. and what you say is true, they are not better than anything in the MA. it is a tough plane to be successful in. no, it's not the spit16 that damn near everyone so readily runs to. it's a challenge. one that i enjoy very much.
Sure, a good pilot can do fine in a 190 as long as he is careful. Take the same pilot, put him in a better plane and he can do fine and not be as careful.
It is kinda like that old old song "Anything you can do, I can do better".
If you want a challenge, or if you just really like the 190s, then fly them and be happy (personally, I've always had a thing for the P-39). The 190s were better (both in absolute and relative terms) when I flew them, but any plane with forward firing guns can have at least some success in the arenas.
As far as the guns on any 190. They are superior to the guns on the LA-7. The LA-7 has a terrible gun that is only good at about 350 yards other than a luck hit. It has a small ammo load also. The 190 has a good ammo lay out and the gun is very good. The Typhoons guns are excellent even with the smaller ammo lay out. Over all I prefer the 190 hand down over the LA-7 for over all use for base attacks.and you should prefer it :) La-5's and 7's are furballers not attack planes
and you should prefer it :) La-5's and 7's are furballers not attack planes