Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: NCLawman on December 13, 2010, 07:08:36 PM
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So, tonight, I log on with the hopes of trying out the new updates (patch 0 as correctly stated by Pyro in another thread :D ) Of course, the Orange Arena is over-full and the Blue is the Vagina Map. So I figured I would go to the DA (something I never do) and mix it up there a bit hoping to improve on the ACM (which I am NOT good at). At the very least, pass some time until I can get into the Orange Arena (hopefully to any map other than square-no water map or vagina map).
As the only action was at Furball Lake and I had not 'challenged' any one to a pre-arranged duel, I went to the furball area. I figured I would take the opportunity to fly a bird that often does not fare well in the MAIN and have some fun learning it. I took a P40E and flew out from the Bish mountain out over the water toward the concentration of red dots, and when I get there...... Nothing but Spit16s, Tempests, a couple picking P51, and HOing 110. I kid you not, there was as dude (who shall remain nameless) in a Tempy floating around on high zooming in for picks. A 110 (who shall remain nameless, made 4 straight HOs on a fellow bish). Pony's and SPit16s diving in from the stratosphere to get picks at the DA lake! :rofl
Now, I understand, that people can take ANY plane and that the DA is a good place to learn that plane. But floating around in near outerspace, to Zoom in and get picks in the DA accomplishes exactly what? :headscratch:
The DA was truly no different than any other main arena, except that perk birds are free. :lol
:salute to the DA score potatos. May you live forever and land your kills for a massive AceHigh Reward. I will forever cherish your name in the DA lights! :salute
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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I found if I was heading to the lake (something I do when I only have a short time to play) I need to adopt a different mindset, not necisarily take up an uber plane but whatever you do take make sure you have a bug out plan for when it inevitably ends up 5 on 1 or take it like a man and go get a new plane. Its a great place to get yourself in trouble and also a good tool for learning to get out of trouble.
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I found if I was heading to the lake (something I do when I only have a short time to play) I need to adopt a different mindset, not necessarily take up an uber plane but whatever you do take make sure you have a bug out plan for when it inevitably ends up 5 on 1 or take it like a man and go get a new plane. Its a great place to get yourself in trouble and also a good tool for learning to get out of trouble.
I noticed the ganging, but I am unconcerned about that. It is the DA, I expect to die and have no desire to land. I was just wondering the logic behind upping UBER cannon-bird and flying high to rack-up 'pick' kills, in the DA???? Really not understanding that part. :headscratch: I could see if one were playing for rank... picking = good k/d ratio. I could see if one was taking a base ... enemy suppression = capture. I don't get the concept of this sort of fight in the DA.
If that is the case, then there really is no reason to go to the DA... might as well fight in the MA. At least then the kills count toward something. I am not suggesting that everyone have to fly an RV-8.... (LOL), I just merely don't understand the B&Z-pick with an perkie cannon bird in the DA... I thought the DA was essentially a mass knife fight. Clearly, I was wrong. So, I know I can return to the MA and get picked like always. :D
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Oh yeah. I see them in there at 30K on a routine basis. And when you get sick of them picking you and climb up there to met them, they will turn tail and run to their field. :rofl Either that or dive straight down in hopes of picking some unsuspecting poor bastige already in a fight with a half dozen or so bad guys. :rofl It's an absolute joke most of the time. But I do have to admit I've had alot of fun in there too.
The really sad part is that it's exactly the same as the MA, just on a smaller scale. Like Gixer said in another thread...This game has become nothing more then Air Quake. It's getting ridiculous.
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I noticed the ganging, but I am unconcerned about that. It is the DA, I expect to die and have no desire to land. I was just wondering the logic behind upping UBER cannon-bird and flying high to rack-up 'pick' kills, in the DA???? Really not understanding that part. :headscratch: I could see if one were playing for rank... picking = good k/d ratio. I could see if one was taking a base ... enemy suppression = capture. I don't get the concept of this sort of fight in the DA.
If that is the case, then there really is no reason to go to the DA... might as well fight in the MA. At least then the kills count toward something. I am not suggesting that everyone have to fly an RV-8.... (LOL), I just merely don't understand the B&Z-pick with an perkie cannon bird in the DA... I thought the DA was essentially a mass knife fight. Clearly, I was wrong. So, I know I can return to the MA and get picked like always. :D
Which is why the furballer purist want their way in the LW-Main Arena! The DA has become a cesspool and the Furball purist don't like it either. Everybody deserves a chance to have their fun in this game as they are all paying for it and I would suggest that they introduce the 8 player mode back and that would drain the cesspool and the pure Duelers (what I call the furball purist), can have some fun of their own once again. In my opinion, we need to have the old 8 player mode for subscribers much more than we need a frigging B-29 in this game! Oh and I would also suggest that they add a hard cap on altitude, that way they can prevent those 30K pickers in a dueling arena.
All the Best...
Jay
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Versus/H2H was a blast. I had more fun in those arenas than anywhere else.
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Put the SA on high gear at furball lake. Last time I was there I got 4 kills in a Spit Mk I furballing outnumbered on the deck. I finally ran out of ammo and was just trying to get guys to auger. I always seem to have fun there but I know what to expect and don't expect to live.
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As long as your expectations aren't high you can have a good time in the DA.
It's instant consequence free fun.
Life is populated by less than moral individuals - DA is no different.
Tempest Fools - Never in the MA long enough to earn perks but up a Temp and go through firing.
Brew Fools - 50 feet off the deck in ever decreasing circles until they pin you down.
Pony Fools - Just like Temp fools but with more class.
110 Fools - Their version of a merge is come in firing.
Oddly Spit XVI's aren't that competitive in there unless they are against other spit XVI's in which case - who cares? As for everything else if you want to work out a strategy for killing Spit XVI's there's no shortage of Lab Rats.
Work on your merges, work on your gunnery, work on your SA just don't expect to live very long. And of course, your "game". When you have come up against the same person 5 times in 10 minutes the opportunity for insults are ever present.
Life is good - planes are free.
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When I want to practice on my reversals, I head to Furball Lake in the DA as it's the best place to practice them.
ack-ack
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Why would you expect different behaviour to the MA when the motivations and rewards are exactly the same?
Implying there should be a different set of behaviour because the DA is an arena intended to be used as a tool for the 'MA players' is woefully out of date.
If you want the kind of fights you seem to be suggesting then you need to get to the lake anytime between about 2am - 9am Central Time Zone (North America) (UTC-6), when it is less populated. The regulars call this 'the breakfast club' and you can usually expect better fights and a little more manners than at other times.
I say usually because even this is steadily slipping away. Those that try to encourage more sportsmanlike play are basically getting tired of trying to keep the standard even slightly above moshpit. Some days it is utterly pointless. Even with as little as 6 players, there might still be 2 Tempests and at least one player trying to systematically pick.
If Aces High players want the behaviour at the lake to change, then a change to the arena itself must be made.
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Why would you expect different behaviour to the MA when the motivations and rewards are exactly the same?
Implying there should be a different set of behaviour because the DA is an arena intended to be used as a tool for the 'MA players' is woefully out of date.
If you want the kind of fights you seem to be suggesting {snip}
If Aces High players want the behaviour at the lake to change, then a change to the arena itself must be made.
I don't believe I ever suggested a change. Hang on, I go back and re-read my post. {reading, reading reading} Nope, no where did I ask for or suggest a change.
The point was, I was surprised by the choice of fighting style after all the chest thumping about DA... DA.. DA... Top that with the fact that it IS the DA -- I still don't understand the mindset of of that style of fight in that arena. If it makes them happy, then rock-on, it was just unexpected and (in my opinion) humorous.
Has the "HALO" effect so overwhelmed the game that even the DA has become 'never die at all costs'? Have we resorted to even a "challenge" arena has become filled with those who don't want challenge? It is a risk-reward thing. If there is no risk, can there really be a reward? That was all I was asking. If that is what makes those players happy, then enjoy with my :salute. May their 30 seconds of text buffer fame live on forever! To me, no risk=no reward=no fun. But that is just me.
:salute
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The very best times to catch some good fights are in the early morning hours before all the DA "squads" log in. There will usually be 6,8 or 10 guys duking it out below 10K and some good fights can be had. It's in the evening when the place fills up that you'll see packs of guys fying together.
Shida up there is one helluva good stick and has always been pleasant and fun to fight. There are several others in there that deserve a big :salute too. Memes and Griff along with Tallguy comes to mind. So not all the DA regulars are bad. It just takes some time in there to figure out whos cool and who's a twit.
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The lake is what it is, and there's a reason many call it a kiddie pool, but at the same time, it's a great place to up a -4 and just see what she can really do.
Besides, the players that are good in there are thinking the same thing you are. Just call out asking if anyone wants to go have some 1v1s, and you'll usually get a response.
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I don't believe I ever suggested a change. Hang on, I go back and re-read my post. {reading, reading reading} Nope, no where did I ask for or suggest a change.
The point was, I was surprised by the choice of fighting style after all the chest thumping about DA... DA.. DA... Top that with the fact that it IS the DA -- I still don't understand the mindset of of that style of fight in that arena. If it makes them happy, then rock-on, it was just unexpected and (in my opinion) humorous.
Has the "HALO" effect so overwhelmed the game that even the DA has become 'never die at all costs'? Have we resorted to even a "challenge" arena has become filled with those who don't want challenge? It is a risk-reward thing. If there is no risk, can there really be a reward? That was all I was asking. If that is what makes those players happy, then enjoy with my :salute. May their 30 seconds of text buffer fame live on forever! To me, no risk=no reward=no fun. But that is just me.
:salute
All you have to do for good fights in the DA is type out on the All channel, "Anyone want a 1v1?"
Thankfully, it is a bannable offense to jump in on a 1v1 outside of furball lake.
I have never not got a good 1v1 after asking for one.
When people call out to DA in the main arena, they aren't referring to the furball lake, as you seem to be implying. They are implying a fair start equal E and Alt 1v1.
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So, tonight, I log on with the hopes of trying out the new updates (patch 0 as correctly stated by Pyro in another thread :D ) Of course, the Orange Arena is over-full and the Blue is the Vagina Map. So I figured I would go to the DA (something I never do) and mix it up there a bit hoping to improve on the ACM (which I am NOT good at). At the very least, pass some time until I can get into the Orange Arena (hopefully to any map other than square-no water map or vagina map).
As the only action was at Furball Lake and I had not 'challenged' any one to a pre-arranged duel, I went to the furball area. I figured I would take the opportunity to fly a bird that often does not fare well in the MAIN and have some fun learning it. I took a P40E and flew out from the Bish mountain out over the water toward the concentration of red dots, and when I get there...... Nothing but Spit16s, Tempests, a couple picking P51, and HOing 110. I kid you not, there was as dude (who shall remain nameless) in a Tempy floating around on high zooming in for picks. A 110 (who shall remain nameless, made 4 straight HOs on a fellow bish). Pony's and SPit16s diving in from the stratosphere to get picks at the DA lake! :rofl
Now, I understand, that people can take ANY plane and that the DA is a good place to learn that plane. But floating around in near outerspace, to Zoom in and get picks in the DA accomplishes exactly what? :headscratch:
The DA was truly no different than any other main arena, except that perk birds are free. :lol
:salute to the DA score potatos. May you live forever and land your kills for a massive AceHigh Reward. I will forever cherish your name in the DA lights! :salute
:rofl :rofl :rofl
AvA for what it's worth.
limited plane set, and no icons, but if you take the time to get used to the lack of icons, you'll do more learning there, than anywhere else, except the ta.
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As a Fighter Ace migrant, one of the things I struggled with in Aces High was the lack of instant action.
I gravitated towards the DA for most of my flying hours since it seemed I could always find a fight within the first 5 minutes of upping. Being able to fly perk planes, having radar active all the time and not having to worry about tanks/flakkers/AA/ships also helped me start to learn without being instantly killed by something/someone I never even saw. I also saw many other ex-FA'ers had landed in the DA which meant I might have a chance to land a kill or two.
Now that I've got about 6 months under my belt I've come to notice that the DA is chock-full of pickers, vulchers, HO'ers, runners, stat queens, whiners, base-huggers, chest-thumpers, stick-stirrers and rammers... Just like Fighter Ace! Just like the MA too, come to think of it.
Some nights are worse than others. As Lawman said, last night was 75% Temps and Spits and it was downright ugly. On the other hand, like NRSHIDA says, the weekend mornings with <10 people in there is a furballer's bliss... until that first Tempy rolls out of the hangar and everyone else suddenly needs one to keep up.
It’s just human nature. People don’t like to lose, and if their best chance of getting a kill (and not being killed) is to boom and zoom, then that’s what they’ll do. Many play to survive. Some play to win and then there's the rare breed that play just for the thrill of the fight. Unfortunately the latter doesn't mix well with the former.
Simon
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the shame of it is that da used to be fun. back when i was in the hired guns, some of us would go in there to play, and had some good fights. as recently as last year(i think) there was that 109 vs p-38 challeng that we had in there.....and that was massive fun.
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I don't fly in the DA much, but it can be very frustrating. You just need to tell yourself that it's just going to be like that in there. It's next to impossible to get a 1v1 duel in the pond, but it's a great place to practice getting ganged 4, 5, and 6 on one, so when you hit the MA - you'll be a pro at fighting the hordes.
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We who use the DA regularly have a great time in there. Sometimes you are out numbered,sometimes they are, but an effort is made to try to keep it even. At prime time US it tends to get a little too crowded for my taste, but its still fun. You have to have the mind set that you will likely die but kill a bunch in the process. You cant let it bother you. Yes, a few take temps, although some dogfight in them, not run all day.
Its a great SA challenge. Heads on a swivel. Ive met some good folks in there,fun to fly with. The transit to the fight is shorter than the MA, and there isnt a hord(normally) all the time. You get to the all the planes for free.
Pretty much, ya have to take what comes, learn to fight it, and enjoy yourself.
The DA isnt so much about altitude, as it is attitude.
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limited plane set, and no icons, but if you take the time to get used to the lack of icons, you'll do more learning there, than anywhere else, except the ta.
That's been claimed for as long as I've been here, but if it's suddenly true, that place must have changed a TON.
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AvA for what it's worth.
limited plane set, and no icons, but if you take the time to get used to the lack of icons, you'll do more learning there, than anywhere else, except the ta.
:rofl
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That's been claimed for as long as I've been here, but if it's suddenly true, that place must have changed a TON.
Last time I popped in a few weeks ago, I saw a 262 vulching, and I chased a Pony for a sector until he had help show up. I'll try again next year
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That's been claimed for as long as I've been here, but if it's suddenly true, that place must have changed a TON.
i think it has. jaeger, oldman, fork, usranger, and others are working their tulips off. excellent maps from ranger, including one called twin rivers. it's got destroyable bridges.
the maps and plane sets change weekly. there is often weather in there, including wind, wind gusts, and limited/low visibility conditions. the plane sets are generally fairly evenly matched.
look down in my sig line, there's a link to the ava's website too. check it out.
till tomorrow night, it's jet week.....only aircraft are the me262, ar234, and the rv8(as a FAC type of role). the fights have ranged from 10k down to the deck, and they're almost all knife fights.....although i did kinda sneak up on malap a couple of times. :devil
sometimes there's a couple of mouthy people in there, but they're pretty harmless, and easy to ignore. also, JG3 runs a squad op on wed. nights, and sometimes tends to fly a little high....but again.......always good fights.
best times are around 8 or 9pm eastern till about 11pm eastern. :aok
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Last time I popped in a few weeks ago, I saw a 262 vulching, and I chased a Pony for a sector until he had help show up. I'll try again next year
when was this? as the 262 was available 2 weeks ago, and not again till this week. i thnik the ponyb was also available that same time period.
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I make my way into the DA when Im having FR issues in the MA. It is what it is, I do recall that on TT's a year or so back, someone orginized the fight to the canyons, with the canyon rim as the ceiling. You would still see a few XVI's and even a Tempy or two, but it was fun. If you are looking for a quieter fight at furball lake then do what Nrshida does and fly inland toward an enemy base. For some reason it draws usually only one or two enemy planes.
Oh and Cap1 was that a promo fro the AvA??
<S>
Carver
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Pretty awesome hijack fellas.
As for finding a fight in the DA, my method is to fly around the edge of the lake as opposed to heading for the big red blob. Eventually (usually not long) 1 or 2 guys will come over to mix it up.
Of course you better make it a quick fight, because once the rest of the DA score potatoes see a lone con in a relatively fair fight, they all migrate over for the easy pickins. :rofl
I never really understood that kind of attitude though as there is NO score in the DA! Must just be the "name in lights" thing. Guess Mommy didn't give out enough hugs and smooches.
<S> Melvin
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when was this? as the 262 was available 2 weeks ago, and not again till this week. i thnik the ponyb was also available that same time period.
Lets see, I logged in a couple of weeks ago and it was a bunch off 262s HOing as soon as you took off. In the middle of avoiding the HOs, I get picked by an invisible 109 driven a preacher of good fights. I learned a lot that day. Yeah, next year sounds good lol.
But feel free to turn every thread to an AvA is so great thread. At list you guys post the truth about what is happening in there. There is a reason it is empty.
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I make my way into the DA when Im having FR issues in the MA. It is what it is, I do recall that on TT's a year or so back, someone orginized the fight to the canyons, with the canyon rim as the ceiling. You would still see a few XVI's and even a Tempy or two, but it was fun. If you are looking for a quieter fight at furball lake then do what Nrshida does and fly inland toward an enemy base. For some reason it draws usually only one or two enemy planes.
Oh and Cap1 was that a promo fro the AvA??
<S>
Carver
yea. i'm a shameless bastage, ain't i? :devil
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Lets see, I logged in a couple of weeks ago and it was a bunch off 262s HOing as soon as you took off. In the middle of avoiding the HOs, I get picked by an invisible 109 driven a preacher of good fights. I learned a lot that day. Yeah, next year sounds good lol.
But feel free to turn every thread to an AvA is so great thread. At list you guys post the truth about what is happening in there. There is a reason it is empty.
there was only 2 or 3 guys flyin the 262;s that week. one of em all the time. he was picking. i kilt him.
the 109 guys were actually fighting. at one point, shuffler, and corkyjr came in and flew 109's.
this was one of the picking 262's
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avaithinkhedid.jpg)
a 109 fight...from the same week....
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avasavingpvtcrazy.jpg)
also from another 109 fight. the 109 is in the lower left of the shot...barely visible. i lost that fight.....
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avalooowwwwpass.jpg)
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there was only 2 or 3 guys flyin the 262;s that week. one of em all the time. he was picking. i kilt him.
the 109 guys were actually fighting. at one point, shuffler, and corkyjr came in and flew 109's.
this was one of the picking 262's
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avaithinkhedid.jpg)
a 109 fight...from the same week....
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avasavingpvtcrazy.jpg)
also from another 109 fight. the 109 is in the lower left of the shot...barely visible. i lost that fight.....
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avalooowwwwpass.jpg)
I guess we have different definitions of fighting Cap. Picking a P47 tangled up with several 262s is not fighting. All he had to do was wait and he would have his fight. But instead, took advantage of the no icons to get a kill. I left and had a blast somewhere else. The AvA though, was left with 3 262s and 1 109 on one side vs 2 P47s on the other. Great fun for all and big lessons learned by all I am sure.
Posting about the AvA over and over will do nothing for it. People log in, the see the BS, and they leave.
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I guess we have different definitions of fighting Cap. Picking a P47 tangled up with several 262s is not fighting. All he had to do was wait and he would have his fight. But instead, took advantage of the no icons to get a kill. I left and had a blast somewhere else. The AvA though, was left with 3 262s and 1 109 on one side vs 2 P47s on the other. Great fun for all and big lessons learned by all I am sure.
Posting about the AvA over and over will do nothing for it. People log in, the see the BS, and they leave.
again, i know exactly who you're talking about. it's his mo, and is really the only way for him to kill. he is the exception, rather than the rule.
i was in a fight with them.....started off as 3-1 then 4-2, then 3-1 and could've ended up as a 1-1, but the survivor chose to egress. that was hurri1 vs 109e.
this week, it is only jets as i mentioned earlier. it is also much much more fun than i had expected it to be. had one fight down on the deck, that got below 150mph, and that dam thing is a handful at that low of a speed.
if you're letting only 2 or 3 guys out of 20 or so ruin your fun, then maybe you're better off in the cess.....eerr......da :devil
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if you're letting only 2 or 3 guys out of 20 or so ruin your fun, then maybe you're better off in the cess.....eerr......da :devil
Well, thats is all that was on at the time :old:. BTW, I don't think you know who I am talking about or who was in the 262s. Check with some tween engine pilits ;)
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What i love is that when i go to the DA, i kick everyone's butts cuz they dont know how to fight :t it feels like most DA regulars cant handle a good fight in the furball lake. i go in with my 51s and chew em up and spit em out. :t :t :t :aok :rofl
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So, tonight, I log on with the hopes of trying out the new updates (patch 0 as correctly stated by Pyro in another thread :D ) Of course, the Orange Arena is over-full and the Blue is the Vagina Map. So I figured I would go to the DA (something I never do) and mix it up there a bit hoping to improve on the ACM (which I am NOT good at). At the very least, pass some time until I can get into the Orange Arena (hopefully to any map other than square-no water map or vagina map).
As the only action was at Furball Lake and I had not 'challenged' any one to a pre-arranged duel, I went to the furball area. I figured I would take the opportunity to fly a bird that often does not fare well in the MAIN and have some fun learning it. I took a P40E and flew out from the Bish mountain out over the water toward the concentration of red dots, and when I get there...... Nothing but Spit16s, Tempests, a couple picking P51, and HOing 110. I kid you not, there was as dude (who shall remain nameless) in a Tempy floating around on high zooming in for picks. A 110 (who shall remain nameless, made 4 straight HOs on a fellow bish). Pony's and SPit16s diving in from the stratosphere to get picks at the DA lake! :rofl
Now, I understand, that people can take ANY plane and that the DA is a good place to learn that plane. But floating around in near outerspace, to Zoom in and get picks in the DA accomplishes exactly what? :headscratch:
The DA was truly no different than any other main arena, except that perk birds are free. :lol
:salute to the DA score potatos. May you live forever and land your kills for a massive AceHigh Reward. I will forever cherish your name in the DA lights! :salute
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Situation normal
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DA lake is a playpen for the kids while the adults are flying in the mains.
The only part of the DA worth anything is the paired fields.
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Well, thats is all that was on at the time :old:. BTW, I don't think you know who I am talking about or who was in the 262s. Check with some tween engine pilits ;)
so you're not talkin about the ones i think you are?
if that's all thatr was on....then refer back to the pic of the disassembled 262 from the p-38 cockpit. i picked him. i picked him as he was climbing up from a pick. :devil so essentially, what i did, was to use his own tactics against him.
in another fight, he ran from a co-alt merge. well...he dove away, expecting me to not follow. i did. when he finally gave up running, i got him. only because i was able to force him into the fight though.
one of the others, i REALLY enjoy fighting. sure he gets loud sometimes, but he's a decent stick, and will never run from a fight....and on one occasion, i do believe he asked his squaddies to stay out, as upon watching the film, they were within4k to 6k during the entire fight.
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What i love is that when i go to the DA, i kick everyone's butts cuz they dont know how to fight :t it feels like most DA regulars cant handle a good fight in the furball lake. i go in with my 51s and chew em up and spit em out. :t :t :t :aok :rofl
ya know/? i was watching film from the other night. i tagged you on a pass that i seriously overshot....and ya didn't go down. dammit!!!! you're supposed to drop outta the air!! your 262 was overmodeled, and mine was undermodeled!! :furious :neener: :rofl
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The DA can be a fun place to hang out, it all depends on the crowd.
Not to hijack, but this is a prime example of why the "cesspool" argument doesn't hold water with me.
You can have 500 people in an MA and the fights are great and the people are being cool.
You can have 12 people in the DA or AvA and it's a "cesspool" because of one or two people's attitudes. What gives?
<S> Melvin
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The DA can be a fun place to hang out, it all depends on the crowd.
Not to hijack, but this is a prime example of why the "cesspool" argument doesn't hold water with me.
You can have 500 people in an MA and the fights are great and the people are being cool.
You can have 12 people in the DA or AvA and it's a "cesspool" because of one or two people's attitudes. What gives?
<S> Melvin
they're all cesspools at some point in time.......
mw was gettin that way, 'cause it was either gangrape, get bnz'd to death, or the bnz'r would run away once he lose his alt advantage......the couple times i forayed into lw, was pretty much the same. da, i go by what i read here. ava, i go in, and if i'm the only one there, i make things go boom till someone comes in to fight........
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We were getting ganged in MW last night but had a ball trying to defend.
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ya know/? i was watching film from the other night. i tagged you on a pass that i seriously overshot....and ya didn't go down. dammit!!!! you're supposed to drop outta the air!! your 262 was overmodeled, and mine was undermodeled!! :furious :neener: :rofl
:rofl you know how i roll! invincible planes and unphased by taters :D
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Why would you expect different behaviour to the MA when the motivations and rewards are exactly the same?
Implying there should be a different set of behaviour because the DA is an arena intended to be used as a tool for the 'MA players' is woefully out of date.
If you want the kind of fights you seem to be suggesting then you need to get to the lake anytime between about 2am - 9am Central Time Zone (North America) (UTC-6), when it is less populated. The regulars call this 'the breakfast club' and you can usually expect better fights and a little more manners than at other times.
I say usually because even this is steadily slipping away. Those that try to encourage more sportsmanlike play are basically getting tired of trying to keep the standard even slightly above moshpit. Some days it is utterly pointless. Even with as little as 6 players, there might still be 2 Tempests and at least one player trying to systematically pick.
If Aces High players want the behaviour at the lake to change, then a change to the arena itself must be made.
<--- member of the breakfast club
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What a shameless AvA hijack. Thanks for the jet week though, I dropped in a few times and had fun. Was still pretty quiet at my time of day however.
NCLawman, I didn't suggest that you had suggested a change. The mere suggestion that I suggested that suggests you have not understood my suggestion.
I was trying to explain that your perplexion at the behaviour / state of play there isn't objective. Once the DA might have been a different place, so I read. But it is different now, there is basically a community of it's own playing in there regularly.
There is a scoring system of a sort in the DA. Statistics are recorded about kills / deaths etc. for those who are interested in that sort of thing. This was once removed but some of the regulars complained and it was reinstated. The scores are now reset periodically. The arena system messages about landing kills are the same too. This is what I meant about a similar motivation / reward producing similar behaviour.
Some of you MA 'experts' need to update your opinions. If you think the ability of the average DA player is inferior to the average MA player then you're way out of date with both arenas.
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The problem with the da is that many newer players gravitate there. They don't have the skills yet to fight using ACMs, so they resort to what they can do and still achieve some level of success. I believe the solution is better education on how to fly and fight. If they knew how to execute ACM's don't you think they would use them?
This of course, will not occur because the majority of players behave as if they were god's gift to cartoon ww2 aerial combat and thus believe that they are not in need of training nor are they open to learning from others. The mere offer of training them, they resort to insults and how they believe they are the best thing since sliced bread, an attitude that still perplexes me :rolleyes:(esp when many have been playing less than 2 mo).
Ignorance is bliss I guess...
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What a shameless AvA hijack. Thanks for the jet week though, I dropped in a few times and had fun. Was still pretty quiet at my time of day however.
NCLawman, I didn't suggest that you had suggested a change. The mere suggestion that I suggested that suggests you have not understood my suggestion.
I was trying to explain that your perplexion at the behaviour / state of play there isn't objective. Once the DA might have been a different place, so I read. But it is different now, there is basically a community of it's own playing in there regularly.
There is a scoring system of a sort in the DA. Statistics are recorded about kills / deaths etc. for those who are interested in that sort of thing. This was once removed but some of the regulars complained and it was reinstated. The scores are now reset periodically. The arena system messages about landing kills are the same too. This is what I meant about a similar motivation / reward producing similar behaviour.
Some of you MA 'experts' need to update your opinions. If you think the ability of the average DA player is inferior to the average MA player then you're way out of date with both arenas.
well, i did admit to being a shameless bastage. :devil
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Furball lake does have its uses. I go there to warm up on everything before a big MA night. I usually fly 3 sorties where I will put myself in a situation where I will have to exercise my SA and gunnery muscles. The lake is also a great place to work on reversals.
I go in with the understanding that I'm gonna get HO'd, gang'd and picked so I don't invest anything in it. WAIT.... HANG ON.... ONE GETS HO'D GANG'D AND PICK'D IN THE MA TOO..... hmmmm... Maybe the lake is a reflection of what the MA is...If you have cesspool DNA in the MA (which we all know we don't), then you might have cesspool DNA in the DA.
Finally, I don't understand (and maybe someone can help me understand) why people bother landing kills in the DA?
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I take Mossie 16's from the Bomber area and nuke A1. then play chasey in Furball trying to get proxies :devil
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Finally, I don't understand (and maybe someone can help me understand) why people bother landing kills in the DA?
The same source of most of the interpersonal drama with the community in AH, Ego
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Yeah, The DA is pretty lame. I was fighting for my life the other day in a P40E vs 2 Spixteens. I'll be damned if some tard didnt up and fly all the way across the lake to pick. There are some in there that are fun to duel with. 'Shida is one you can expect to have a clean merge and an honest fight with, <S> nrshida!!
I've found the best medicine for the Temptards is just to up a Tempest and gently explain how not actually learning to fly the plane is stunting their ACM.
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Yeah, The DA is pretty lame. I was fighting for my life the other day in a P40E vs 2 Spixteens. I'll be damned if some tard didnt up and fly all the way across the lake to pick. There are some in there that are fun to duel with. 'Shida is one you can expect to have a clean merge and an honest fight with, <S> nrshida!!
I've found the best medicine for the Temptards is just to up a Tempest and gently explain how not actually learning to fly the plane is stunting their ACM.
so? are you typing this from the afterlife then? what's it like on the other side?
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I like flying the mossie in furball lake.
If you are a decent pile-it flying in furball lake you won't have any trouble clubbing the baby seals.
My solution to temps? Give everyone 3 free temps a week at furball lake, then make them pay perkies.
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Actually in the DA its well worth landing your kills. Your stats, kill death ratio etc, do not reset each month, so your entire career is up there in lights for all to see, and we use this to judge relative skill of opponents. In the MA scores reset each month, so its easy to reestablish a good K/D ratio and improve your rank. Yes those scores are kept for months past, but who really goes to look up old tours. In the DA, all your sorties are recorded and to go up the scale in the DA and have an awesome ratio is a lot harder than peeps think. The skills needed to survive this type of room are different from MA, you need very good SA, and be good at taking on multiple targets. I used the DA as a learning tool and now as a quick place to warm up before moving on to the MA. For those who can survive the hos, picks and gangs and still have a great kill ratio I salute you! :rock
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The DA scores do get wiped periodically (and unpredictably). Sometimes when the arenas get reset.
Ardy's right, an awful lot of new players end up there, and I think a segment of any group will inevitably take the line of least resistance. The fact is that joining a 'ganging squad' and systematically picking and HOing is an alternative route to getting results and probably less work than the ACM path. When they're done with that basic training they move on to the MA, lol.
Some DA players do spend considerable time explaining technical issues and even training those that want to improve, but for every one of those there are at least 25 who want to just play 'Air Quake' as I was heard Gixer called it (great term).
HighGTrn has a very good point regarding the DA/MA comparison. The biggest practical difference I myself see between the DA and the MA crowd right now is that the typical DA fighter will fight whatever the situation even when at a disadvantage, and the typical MA player will typically not do that.
I had the thought some time ago, going back to what I tried to explain to NCLawman. What if, in the DA all the scores were disabled (like in the TA) and ALSO the landing kills system messages were also turned off? Then you really would be left with nothing else apart from the fight? Interesting thought.
<S> Bubbajj, what's your callsign?
Also <S> Pacman, Coho, Ardy, Filth, Simon, Warhed, Uptown, ThreeUp, Bill.
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You do realize that scores do not differentiate between those flying in the furball lake, and those dueling from the 1v1 fields, correct?
The lake can be fun, informative, and useful, but there is absolutely no purpose to landing those kills, unless you make up a purpose of your own.
Actually in the DA its well worth landing your kills. Your stats, kill death ratio etc, do not reset each month, so your entire career is up there in lights for all to see, and we use this to judge relative skill of opponents. In the MA scores reset each month, so its easy to reestablish a good K/D ratio and improve your rank. Yes those scores are kept for months past, but who really goes to look up old tours. In the DA, all your sorties are recorded and to go up the scale in the DA and have an awesome ratio is a lot harder than peeps think. The skills needed to survive this type of room are different from MA, you need very good SA, and be good at taking on multiple targets. I used the DA as a learning tool and now as a quick place to warm up before moving on to the MA. For those who can survive the hos, picks and gangs and still have a great kill ratio I salute you! :rock
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I enjoy the whole package of take off, engagement and landing, especially if damaged, irrespective of whether I have any kills.
When I started, and we aren't talking a long time ago, I was absolutely vilified for HO'ing the first real 'enemy' I ever saw in AH, I think I fired from about 1500yds and at least 10 guys told me that it just was not on, neither was picking or vulching, and those were all actions reserved for the MA.
As mentioned, if I can, I get into the 'Breakfast Club' although work often precludes this, it's a thoroughly enjoyable time for a couple of hours, and anyone of any skill can say 'rtb fuel' and pretty much, within reason, be allowed to pass unmolested.
There is congratulations and salutes, and advice, and then all of a sudden it goes to rat excrement, there is a pile of relatively unskilled new players being controlled by a couple of very skilled but kill hoarding players, they begin vulching fields, picking and HO'ing and reply with an infantile 'WAAAA' whenever it is mentioned.
As a result most guys will simply go to the MA, ask for a 1v1 or just log.
Ok it's a furball over the lake, but it is also a DUELLING ARENA
–noun
1.
a prearranged combat between two persons, fought with deadly weapons according to an accepted code of procedure, esp. to settle a private quarrel.
2.
any contest between two persons or parties.
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You do realize that scores do not differentiate between those flying in the furball lake, and those dueling from the 1v1 fields, correct?
The lake can be fun, informative, and useful, but there is absolutely no purpose to landing those kills, unless you make up a purpose of your own.
they're fightin for their lives mannnnnnn...... :noid
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{snip}
NCLawman, I didn't suggest that you had suggested a change. The mere suggestion that I suggested that suggests you have not understood my suggestion. :lol :lol
I was trying to explain that your perplexion at the behaviour / state of play there isn't objective. Once the DA might have been a different place, so I read. But it is different now, there is basically a community of it's own playing in there regularly.
There is a scoring system of a sort in the DA. Statistics are recorded about kills / deaths etc. for those who are interested in that sort of thing. This was once removed but some of the regulars complained and it was reinstated. The scores are now reset periodically. The arena system messages about landing kills are the same too. This is what I meant about a similar motivation / reward producing similar behaviour.
Some of you MA 'experts' need to update your opinions. If you think the ability of the average DA player is inferior to the average MA player then you're way out of date with both arenas.
NRShida... I will have to take your word for it about the community on its own in there. Admittedly, I do not fly in the DA very often... in fact, probably less than once per year. :salute
And, I admit that I did not know that 'scores' and kills were recorded in the DA. Thank you for pointing that out. That at least sheds SOME light on the subject and their motivation-reward. Another :salute
As for the skill of the players in the DA verses the MA, please know and understand that I was not insinuating DA players were less skilled. I know that at any given time, any AH player can be anywhere in the game. And, not being aware that scores were retained in the DA, I was also unaware that there was ANY reward for flying in 'pick/vulch/timid' mode.
I also did not expect to go in and fight in a 1v1. I truly expected to get ganged and I have no problem with that. In fact, that was the whole reason for my going. I wanted to learn an under-used plane and learn to do some of these reversals that 'good' guys speak of. What I wasn't expecting is to find guys floating around afraid to come down for fear that their heat shields would burn off on re-entry. I didn't expect the 'furball' to be one of high-alt-monkeys only coming in to pick while you were low and slow with a 1v2 or 1v3 engagement.
It was not the dying that confused me-- i expected it. It is the lack of 'true fight' in the DUELING arena. I don't begrudge these gentleman/gentle-women their kills. I just did not understand the mentality of doing it in the DA. Those kinds of kills are easily racked up in the MA (where do you think I get my kills :rofl ). What is the point of going to a DUELING arena if you are going to up a bird (example Tempest) that gives such a tremendous advantage as to negate the need for skill? I equate it to a high school base ball player hitting from a T at batting practice. Just cause you hit a ball from the T does not mean you are suddenly worthy of the major leagues. The T is great for hand-eye coordination and swing mechanics, but it is NOT really like hitting from a pitcher. A good practice, nonetheless, but do you always want to hit from the T?
Back on point and the purpose of the thread... I truly hope that this is NOT what the game is evolving to ... the apropos {AirQuake}. I would hate to think that the dedicated "Fight" arena is an indication of the future of the MA - or is merely a small scale reflection of the MA. And, as for change, this is not something that HTC can change for us. It is a mindset among the community regarding what is 'good behavior.'
If, in fact, this is the DA with the exception of the few hours in the early mornings mentioned, then I really have no desire to be there. I went to the DA looking for a fight (whether 1v1 or 1v10 but a fight nonetheless) and I did not find it. I found the MA, but with free perk birds and no ENY. Again, if that is those players cup of tea, then they are welcome to it and I hope they enjoy it. But it is not for me and I hope that this is not an indication of the directino of the game.
:salute NRShida... I hope that you did not take offense to my second post, I did not mean it that way, please accept my apology if that was how it came off. :salute
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The biggest practical difference I myself see between the DA and the MA crowd right now is that the typical DA fighter will fight whatever the situation even when at a disadvantage, and the typical MA player will typically not do that.
An interesting observation.
...but...is danny76 joking when he says that people vultch in the Dueling Arena? Really?
- oldman
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First to NC Lawman, I was just on the way to my soapbox, then I read further and realised you were reading from same hymn sheet, after reading your post twice sir I say YEA :salute
Secondly to oldman 731, certainly Sir, i have experienced serious vulching, with IL2's and tiffs.
The DA should be pure 1v1 2v2 3v3
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My biggest enjoyment of the DA?
Not flying very long before you get to a fight.
Yeah there are twinks in every arena. The beauty of the DA, probably similar to the AVA is the low population, means less of them. The MA just isnt very much fun. Long flight to fight, hords, new guys that dont give much of a fight, the way the game forces everyone to one spot since the towns are so big and hard to take without a hord.
Its nice just to up in the DA, quick flight to a fight, say "Hey" to yer buds on both sides, and have great fights, with a few twinks thrown in for good measure to remind how good, overall, we have it.
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... It was not the dying that confused me-- i expected it. It is the lack of 'true fight' in the DUELING arena. ... What is the point of going to a DUELING arena if you are going to up a bird (example Tempest) that gives such a tremendous advantage as to negate the need for skill?
Don't confuse Furball Lake with the rest of the DA. As previously mentiond, a DUEL is a controlled event between two DUELISTS. Furball Lake is a FURBALL and, like any FURBALL in the game, nearly anything goes. If you were expecting a DUEL in the middle of a FURBALL you were seriously delusional when you upped. If what you really wanted was a DUEL all you had to do was ask if anyone else wanted to go a few rounds. 90% of the arena is dedicated to DUELING after all.
And BTW, I am so sick of every thread turning into a "The AVA is soooo great" thread it's enough in itself to keep me away.
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Don't confuse Furball Lake with the rest of the DA. As previously mentiond, a DUEL is a controlled event between two DUELISTS. Furball Lake is a FURBALL and, like any FURBALL in the game, nearly anything goes. If you were expecting a DUEL in the middle of a FURBALL you were seriously delusional when you upped. If what you really wanted was a DUEL all you had to do was ask if anyone else wanted to go a few rounds. 90% of the arena is dedicated to DUELING after all.
And BTW, I am so sick of every thread turning into a "The AVA is soooo great" thread it's enough in itself to keep me away.
Eagle, I don't disagree with you. I wasn't looking for specifically a 'duel'. I realize that the furball lake is a furball. What I envisioned was a mass knife fight - not 3 or 4 guys knife fighting while getting 'picked' by 8 or 10 Tempests. Again, I am not quite grasping the point of the BnZ pick in the DUELING arena.
I went to furball lake because I was looking for quick action and wanted to mix it up in a a disadvantaged plane. What I found was NOT a furball. It was a small number of guys trying to furball being interrupted by a larger number of tempest-pickers. So what is the point of that in the DA? I get it in the MA; but, what does that accomplish or prove in the DA?
My question still stands and I believe is valid... IS THIS WHAT THE DA HAS BECOME? AND IS THIS A FUTURE REPRESENTATION OF THE GAME .... AIRQUAKE? Is it a bunch of guys not trying to learn the ACM and merely doing whatever with the most powerful weapon they can find to get 'instant' kills? :frown: :frown:
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NCLawman, there is absolutely no need to apologize to me sir, no offense taken in any way :salute I just wanted to explain the realities of the DA and explain the philosophy at work there and the reasons for what you experienced. I actually agree with you regarding the fights and the game play / sportsmanship, however it must be acknowledged that this is probably a minority view now.
I usually refrain from posting on these type of threads regarding game play etc, but I do get annoyed sometimes at some of the elitist attitudes from some of the MA players (I do not direct this at you!).
If you subtract the disproportionate amount of new players from the DA, then I'd say the average skill level is the same. I actually think the most common tactic in the MA is much lamer. By that I mean the egressing from the fight by diving away, running to ack or friendlies the moment the advantage is lost. I can only assume the motivation for this is to either replicate a 'real world' sense of survival, or more likely to protect one's score?
If you look at the usage of space on the radar of the DA arena on any given moment, you will usually find that the furball lake is the most densely populated, with on average two of the side fields in use for private duelling. This is why the terms DA and furball lake have basically become interchangeable. It is important to know this because again it alters people's expectations of what will happen in there.
The DA / furball lake is not a bad place to fly in. Filth pretty well nailed it, you can find a fight very quickly etc. There are plenty of good sticks as well as beginners and there are also helpful players, willing to duel and even help out if there is anything specific you want to learn. I would encourage anyone to drop in and give it a go. But be informed about the place and what goes on there to prevent disappointment. Yes there is much lameness and even vulching!
A good tip for evaluating the mood of the DA is to find out how many Tempests are flying, and to determine if all the dots on the radar are compressed into one tiny space or spread out evenly.
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Is it a bunch of guys not trying to learn the ACM and merely doing whatever with the most powerful weapon they can find to get 'instant' kills? :frown: :frown:
Yeah, pretty much. Just like it's always been.
It takes a special kind of person to devote the single half hour of time to learning the few simple ideas that will help them be a better killer.
Edit - I might as well expand on this so there is a point to it.
There are three basic things that change the game once you learn them.
1. A single reversal option
2. The effect of separation on the merge on a lead turn (vertical, lateral, or both)
3. "Egg Theory," or how there are many different ways to get from point A to B
Having a single reversal option (A simple barrel roll guns defense is fine) gives you the opportunity to put your opponent in trouble, rather than have to always run from trouble.
Separation on the merge and the ensuing lead turn allows you to set the stage for an engagement.
"Egg theory" allows you to maintain any initial advantage you may have.
These are not difficult concepts to learn. Assuming you have played the game long enough to set up your controls and master basic flying skills, any trainer can teach you these three steps in as little as half an hour to an hour. Once you learn them, your confidence and results will improve. With a little practice, those results will improve enormously. Every CO of every squad should ensure that their squad mates get this training from somewhere (be it an official trainer, good stick in the squad, or random vet who is willing to help).
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I dont know why everyone whines about tempests in the DA, when I was flying they never gave me trouble, and on the last day of my account, I decided to take one up to see what it was like, and thats when I found out that there is no reason to whine because no good tempest pilots fly in the DA, after landing my 7 kills, 6 of which were other tempests, I just sort of laughed to myself about all the fuss they cause
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They cause a fuss because they can essentially stop anyone else fighting when they are around. A Tempest can basically fly around untouched if the stick has any brains at all. Even if you get the better of them in terms of position you usually can't do enough damage to stop them escaping and they will come back later with a lot more energy. It is not the case that you have to be especially skilled in ACM to be successful in a Tempest, just lean heavily on the strengths of the machine. This would be a problem with one annoying Tempest pilot, when you have three or four of them around it's fairly demanding :furious
Having said that, there are also a few highly skilled Tempy sticks. Diktater will merge with you and gives an excellent fight.
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If the DA had no F-3 mode and no perk rides. Maybe ACM skills would enter into the equation. What I see most times I come to the DA is guys flying around in F-3 making fantastic deflection shots in perk rides they can't afford in the MA.You learn nothing spraying the sky with cannons like a garden hose. If getting kills by any means you can is all you want then buy a Micro Soft game and shoot down drones all day.
While I do see a lot of good sticks in the DA I mostly see the perked cannon rides BnZ some poor P-40 just taking off. I been playing about 4 or 5 years and the DA has always been about what it is now. People can do what they want it is their $14.95 but if you want to learn combat flying. Stay out of perk birds and F-3 mode. Who knows you may become a legitimate fighter pilot and the DA would be a lot more fun.
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My question still stands and I believe is valid... IS THIS WHAT THE DA HAS BECOME? AND IS THIS A FUTURE REPRESENTATION OF THE GAME .... AIRQUAKE? Is it a bunch of guys not trying to learn the ACM and merely doing whatever with the most powerful weapon they can find to get 'instant' kills? :frown: :frown:
Its a bunch of guys with acm, fighting a few guys without it, who think a perk ride will always win, and the rest of us trying to prove them wrong :)
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Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.
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Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.
Total BS. It was YOU!!!!!!!!!
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I'm a DA regular, If you hardly fly in there, and are not on a squad, look at roster to compare the fairness of countries, and make freind's and use commication, these guy's are tough! I'm a fighter, If I want to hang out at 20K I'll be in the MA, and don't HO till HO'ed apon. (as far as the lake goes) I wish I could fly with the breakfast club! nrshida Is a great pilot! as far as getting on in the eve's, which Im used to, It's a very dark dark ally, better have your led pipe handy! lol Misfire out,
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I'm a DA regular, If you hardly fly in there, and are not on a squad, look at roster to compare the fairness of countries, and make freind's and use commication, these guy's are tough! I'm a fighter, If I want to hang out at 20K I'll be in the MA, and don't HO till HO'ed apon. (as far as the lake goes) I wish I could fly with the breakfast club! nrshida Is a great pilot! as far as getting on in the eve's, which Im used to, It's a very dark dark ally, better have your led pipe handy! lol Misfire out,
We flew a few sorties on the lake lake last night till it was time for us to migrate to a couple of DA fields for our meet with the jugs.
What we noticed.....
Mostly Spit 16, P47M, and Tempest.
Most up high.
Very few fighting on the lake (most way above it).
Bulk of the folks just droping in and zooming.
Many HO attempts.
The folks on DA Lake last night were just confirming what is posted about the place on the boards.
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We flew a few sorties on the lake lake last night till it was time for us to migrate to a couple of DA fields for our meet with the jugs.
What we noticed.....
Mostly Spit 16, P47M, and Tempest.
Most up high.
Very few fighting on the lake (most way above it).
Bulk of the folks just droping in and zooming.
Many HO attempts.
The folks on DA Lake last night were just confirming what is posted about the place on the boards.
Which really started the cesspool atmosphere of the DA when the free 8-player mode was removed. I still say that if HTC initiated a subscriber 8-player mode option, the DA would return to what it was intended to be. Hey, I've been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong again but it would be nice to see in this case if I was right or wrong.
All the Best...
Jay
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As far as the HO'ing goes, that's every where, don't care where ya go! The only way I see to bring (fairness to DA) would be to put a 10K alt cap on it! But I don't see that happening, And I have a good laugh when the alt monky drops and I kick his butt, but it is what it is!