Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Citabria on March 02, 2011, 09:55:30 PM

Title: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Citabria on March 02, 2011, 09:55:30 PM
I flew a piper cub today and I felt that turbulence and wind were very noticible and random and interacted in specific ways with ground obstacles etc.

when landing i had to dance on the rudders to stay on the runway even in light winds and also though I did not encounter the problem i was warry of using to much brakes for fear of nosing over accidentally.

in ah if one day the computing power is available to model not just the flight model but to model the properties of the very air the aircraft fly in it would be a great milestone of achievement.

picture yourself caught in the turbulence of the aircraft you are persuing. the effects could be very pronounced when maneuvering  or attacking bombers etc and when flying at low level and landing. clouds would have their own turbulence when you entered them etc.

and landing would also possibly be more challenging with an option to turn off the brake governor that limits brake input to keep from nosing over. and also with a fluid atmosphere the need to give more control inputs with rudder etc to maintain the aircraft when taking off and landing.


perhaps it could be done by trickery but maybe one day the power will be availableto model the air and all its fluid dynamics and complexity.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: ImADot on March 02, 2011, 10:32:06 PM
There can be wind - they use it in special events and in the AvA sometimes.  It's not the greatest, but it does affect your flight.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: AWwrgwy on March 03, 2011, 12:40:15 AM
There can be wind - they use it in special events and in the AvA sometimes.  It's not the greatest, but it does affect your flight.

It is a single, non-changing vector.

Imagine the computing power that would be necessary to model individual molecules.


wrongway
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: MachFly on March 03, 2011, 01:15:49 AM
A piper cub is a very light airplane, winds effect it a lot more than they would effect any plane we have in AH (with an exception to WWI planes).

Now I am all for more realism, but if we were to have all thous things we would also have a lot more warping. Another thing to consider; do we really want to have weather that would prevent flying in a flying game?

I can't find the exact post but HiTech said a while ago that he does not want to make the game more challenging for everyone. The wind will be a problem for everyone not just one side.


I am not saying I don't want to have all thous things you said (I do), but I just don't think it will be possible to make them realistic and have the game work good for everyone.  
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: MachFly on March 03, 2011, 01:22:51 AM
A piper cub is a very light airplane, winds effect it a lot more than they would effect any plane we have in AH (with an exception to WWI planes).

Now I am all for more realism, but if we were to have all thous things we would also have a lot more warping. Another thing to consider; do we really want to have weather that would prevent flying in a flying game?

I can't find the exact post but HiTech said a while ago that he does not want to make the game more challenging for everyone. The wind will be a problem for everyone not just one side.


I am not saying I don't want to have all thous things you said (I do), but I just don't think it will be possible to make them realistic and have the game work good for everyone.  


I still can't find the right quote but read this one.

...take off and landing part of AH is not something extremely important to the fun/combat of AH.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Ardy123 on March 03, 2011, 01:40:53 AM
+1 I'm for this too. and I have asked for it too.. Think how cool it would be to have a thermal under a cloud for ex...
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Chalenge on March 03, 2011, 02:03:18 AM
Thats what makes FSX so great compared to previous versions and why its the best soaring sim available. I would love to see wake turbulence modeled but I can already hear the noobs whine about not being able to hit squat... already hear veteran gamers whine about it.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Wmaker on March 03, 2011, 03:37:28 AM
why its the best soaring sim available.

Condor is much better as far as weather and flight modelling goes.

http://www.condorsoaring.com/ (http://www.condorsoaring.com/)
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: gyrene81 on March 03, 2011, 06:36:14 AM
+1 I'm for this too. and I have asked for it too.. Think how cool it would be to have a thermal under a cloud for ex...
ya, think how cool it was to get the b-29...first time you got flipped to a ditch by some rogue crosswind trying to land a 4 kill sortie you would be pulling a ltthunderpocket whine on the boards...

nobody actually thinks anymore...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Noir on March 03, 2011, 06:44:45 AM
ya, think how cool it was to get the b-29...first time you got flipped to a ditch by some rogue crosswind trying to land a 4 kill sortie you would be pulling a ltthunderpocket whine on the boards...

nobody actually thinks anymore...  :rolleyes:

ok in your logic a new feature is not valid because it would generate whines? lol

+1 on this wish, I understand that influence from moving objects on the atmosphere is very hard to coad, but at least a variable wind would add a nice touch of realism
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Masherbrum on March 03, 2011, 06:47:30 AM
Oh how I miss the wind changes from AH1.   Nothing funnier than watching someone in a Goon drop troops, only to have them land about a kilometer away and have the shouting on Range Vox.    It made for some funny captures.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: gyrene81 on March 03, 2011, 06:51:16 AM
ok in your logic a new feature is not valid because it would generate whines? lol
b-29...think about it. winds in the main arenas would not be a "feature"...the code for wind already exists, but it's only used in special events and occasionally the ava...it generates whines in both.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Noir on March 03, 2011, 07:05:01 AM
b-29...think about it. winds in the main arenas would not be a "feature"...the code for wind already exists, but it's only used in special events and occasionally the ava...it generates whines in both.

It also generates fun and the need of fuel managing, cv orientation managing....something different that aim and shoot.

What we don't have is a wind that variates through time.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: gyrene81 on March 03, 2011, 07:06:57 AM
It also generates fun and the need of fuel managing, cv orientation managing....something different that aim and shoot.
i agree...  :aok  but those of us who enjoy the little things like that are a serious minority when they are put in place...

(shameless plug) come to the ava, we'll turn the wind on for ya...  :D
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: VonMessa on March 03, 2011, 07:08:30 AM
I flew a piper cub today and I felt that turbulence and wind were very noticible and random and interacted in specific ways with ground obstacles etc.

when landing i had to dance on the rudders to stay on the runway even in light winds and also though I did not encounter the problem i was warry of using to much brakes for fear of nosing over accidentally.

in ah if one day the computing power is available to model not just the flight model but to model the properties of the very air the aircraft fly in it would be a great milestone of achievement.

picture yourself caught in the turbulence of the aircraft you are persuing. the effects could be very pronounced when maneuvering  or attacking bombers etc and when flying at low level and landing. clouds would have their own turbulence when you entered them etc.

and landing would also possibly be more challenging with an option to turn off the brake governor that limits brake input to keep from nosing over. and also with a fluid atmosphere the need to give more control inputs with rudder etc to maintain the aircraft when taking off and landing.


perhaps it could be done by trickery but maybe one day the power will be availableto model the air and all its fluid dynamics and complexity.

You live near me or something?   :lol

Was up in a Piper Saratoga yesterday.  left from KLOM (Blue Bell, PA)  Winds SW 14mph G 20-25 mph.   It was a little crazy but fun at the same time. :aok
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: kvuo75 on March 03, 2011, 03:13:33 PM
MSFS has had tubulence as far back as I can remember..

there was another civilian fs with wake turbulence too, cant remember the name of it tho.. from the mid/late-90's. flight something or other, perhaps.


edit: ahha.. flight unlimited 2 I think it was.


Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: colmbo on March 03, 2011, 03:22:06 PM
I would love to see wake turbulence modeled but I can already hear the noobs whine about not being able to hit squat... already hear veteran gamers whine about it.

I'm not real excited about wind....haven't found a sim yet that the wind is "right" during the takeoff/landing phase.

Wake turbulence would be interesting....but you can  get pretty close and not feel so much as a wiggle:

(http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/bombpics/b24six.jpg)
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Chalenge on March 03, 2011, 03:56:31 PM
Condor is much better as far as weather and flight modelling goes.

http://www.condorsoaring.com/ (http://www.condorsoaring.com/)

Maybe compared to stock FSX.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Chalenge on March 03, 2011, 03:59:12 PM
I'm not real excited about wind....haven't found a sim yet that the wind is "right" during the takeoff/landing phase.

Wake turbulence would be interesting....but you can  get pretty close and not feel so much as a wiggle:

(http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/bombpics/b24six.jpg)

Yes I have seen smooth conditions in soaring competitions too... and then I have seen it really nasty. I think a heavy jinking target in turbulent conditions would be very interesting because the jinking Lancs are already interesting especially at altitude.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Yossarian on March 03, 2011, 05:00:08 PM
It is a single, non-changing vector.

Imagine the computing power that would be necessary to model individual molecules.


wrongway

You wouldn't be modeling individual molecules, you'd be modeling an approximation of the entire system, or something along those lines :P

Anyway, +1 on this - I've always sort of wished for slightly more challenging flights.  Wouldn't the brakes be a bit difficult, since most of us probably have buttons assigned for them?
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Chalenge on March 03, 2011, 05:12:45 PM
All the more reason to use pedals. Aircraft of the WWII era didnt use brakes as much as you do in all likelihood. I know for instance that the P-51s and B-17 manuals instruct pilots to stay off the brakes when the gear is retracted or the brakes could weld to the discs.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: skorpion on March 03, 2011, 06:00:44 PM
what about prop-wash? that can be tricky when flying in tight formations...
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Imowface on March 03, 2011, 06:06:03 PM
we have a brake limiter?
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: kvuo75 on March 03, 2011, 06:19:41 PM
we have a brake limiter?


yea thats why you cant tip over and bang yer prop even when slammin on the brakes..

I dont really use brakes in game anyway, land almost full stall - 3 point, and just barely tap brakes with spacebar once down to 30-40mph, the tail never even comes off the ground.

Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Imowface on March 03, 2011, 06:31:05 PM
I wheel land and pump the brakes but I have never nosed over by accident
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Tupac on March 03, 2011, 08:17:36 PM
In this game the brakes are either on or off, there is no in between. In a real plane you can control how hard you want to brake.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: ImADot on March 03, 2011, 08:27:48 PM
In this game the brakes are either on or off, there is no in between.

You should try rudder pedals with toe brakes...
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: EagleDNY on March 03, 2011, 09:11:51 PM
+1 on wind.  A simple implementation would be to just have a random wind change every few hours - wind from (000 - 359 degrees) at (0 - 30) or something like that.  You can check it on your clipboard when you get ready to up.

This would definitely help the problem of laser-guided bombing by the buffs (and I am one of them). 
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: kvuo75 on March 03, 2011, 10:17:25 PM
+1 on wind.  A simple implementation would be to just have a random wind change every few hours - wind from (000 - 359 degrees) at (0 - 30) or something like that.  You can check it on your clipboard when you get ready to up.

This would definitely help the problem of laser-guided bombing by the buffs (and I am one of them). 

it doesn't, since the bombsight already corrects for wind.  (unless theres more than 1 layer)
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: ImADot on March 03, 2011, 10:19:02 PM
It's my understanding that wind doesn't affect bombs once they're dropping - it only affects your plane, in effect pushing you off target.  But, I doubt you'll ever see wind in the Mains...only in special events and the AvA.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: kvuo75 on March 03, 2011, 10:37:02 PM
It's my understanding that wind doesn't affect bombs once they're dropping - it only affects your plane, in effect pushing you off target.  But, I doubt you'll ever see wind in the Mains...only in special events and the AvA.

sorry but i feel the need to say some basic stuff:

wind is nothing more than a mass of air that is moving relative to the ground

airplanes fly thru air

bombs fall thru air


there doesn't even need to be a ground to reference to, for an airplane to fly, and for it's bombs to fall along a ballistic arc.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: colmbo on March 04, 2011, 08:03:44 AM
All the more reason to use pedals. Aircraft of the WWII era didnt use brakes as much as you do in all likelihood. I know for instance that the P-51s and B-17 manuals instruct pilots to stay off the brakes when the gear is retracted or the brakes could weld to the discs.

Not sure about the Mustang but our procedure was to use light braking to stop the wheel from spinning before retracting.  If you don't you'll get a "burnt rubber" smell in the a/c from the tire rubbing against the bumper in the wheel well.

What you didn't do on the B-17 or B-24 was leave the parking brake set after landing.  If you've really heated the brakes up you'll heat and overexpand the brake bladder causing it to rupture.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: ImADot on March 04, 2011, 09:50:17 AM
sorry but i feel the need to say some basic stuff:

wind is nothing more than a mass of air that is moving relative to the ground

airplanes fly thru air

bombs fall thru air


there doesn't even need to be a ground to reference to, for an airplane to fly, and for it's bombs to fall along a ballistic arc.

Ok, I was referring to the game, not real life.  In the game, wind pushes your aircraft but I don't think it pushes the bombs.  If you're talking about real life, it's irrelevant because the game is not real life.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Noir on March 04, 2011, 09:55:28 AM
wind do push bombs in AH, I remember a fso frame where we had to compensate for the wind in the sight. But thats just IIRC
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Krusty on March 04, 2011, 11:04:59 AM
I believe Brooke or Strip or somebody did some test with the wind... There were opposing wind layers at different alts... So that flying just above (I can't recall so I'll make up the numbers) 8K would have a left crosswind, but flying just under 8K a right crosswind all the way to ground level... Dropping bombs just above 8K, the bombs immediately passed into the opposing wind layer.

It did nothing. Bombs take the motion of the aircraft then after that nothing affects their flight. Wind will not act on them.

I also don't think wind works at all on ground level in Aces High. Wheels and how they interact with the ground, multiengine planes pivoting around a center point, etc... It leaves a lot to be desired.

IMO taking off and landing with ground-level winds in AH is an artificial construct that doesn't reflect the real world. Wind doesn't whip around things like a fluid, in AH.. it just moves everything "thataway" regardless of interactions that should ground them in place, and doesn't really model things like wheels against the runway and so forth very well.

Just look at GV interactions with ground vs friction and you get a sense that this is very much a flight sim. Some day I'd like to see as much fidelity put into ground interaction as we see with the air, but for now I'll enjoy what we have.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Tupac on March 04, 2011, 11:53:38 AM
Where I fly out of we always have thermals over the trees at the end of the runway, and I always have to compensate for it. It was 300fpm up the other day, so i was only descending at 200 fpm and I had to use a forward slip to get it down.

It would be kinda cool to have tricky landings.
Title: Re: I wish for turbulence and wind and tricky landings and no brake limiter
Post by: Yeager on March 04, 2011, 02:30:45 PM
I wish the sun would stay at high noon 24-7-365 and no clouds.  Perfect fighting weather.