Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ex-jazz on March 29, 2011, 11:35:08 AM
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Interesting
http://community.nascar.com/2011jeep/blog/2010/08/26/official:_kimi_raikkonen_signs_with_re d_bull_racing_for_2012
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I see a blank, mustard yellow page.
It's a very, very... nauseating yellow.
I can't look at it for too long, makes me want to hurl.
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I had to check the date to make sure this wasn't an April 1st joke.
Just an FYI - Kimi retired from F1 in 2010 to try his hand at Rally.
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:bhead was a damn good driver.... hope he doesnt follow Juan Pablo Montoya.
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:rolleyes: What's next Mikka Hakkinen going to NASCAR. Sorry NASCAR fans, but I just feel like the skills of someone so talented as Kimi (World Champion at the highest level of motorsport) is wasted driving a big fat, noisy sedan around in circles.
Wouldn't be the first driver to do so in recent years, JP Montoya, Scott Speed, but he would be the most successful F1 driver to do so.
I still can't believe that Ferrari got rid of him so easily in 2009 so they could sign Alonso.
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This guy can't do NASCAR, he has too many teeth in his head.
(just kidding NASCAR fans, I never understood NASCAR)
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:bhead was a damn good driver.... hope he doesnt follow Juan Pablo Montoya.
He IS a damn good driver. I would have loved to have seen him side by side with Alonso at Ferrari, but then that would have gone against Ferrari's principle of have a #1 driver and then a whipping boy driver.
JP Montoya was probably the biggest jerk in F1, I was glad to see him go. Remember this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2eu-V57zpc Walks into a camera and goes off on the camera man. :lol
Also loved David Coulthard's Montoya impression. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sY7cfROScE :lol
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This guy can't do NASCAR, he has too many teeth in his head.
(just kidding NASCAR fans, I never understood NASCAR)
Why do rednecks do it doggystyle?
"So we can BOTH watch the race!" YEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!
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Why do rednecks do it doggystyle?
"So we can BOTH watch the race!" YEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!
+1 :rofl
He IS a damn good driver. I would have loved to have seen him side by side with Alonso at Ferrari, but then that would have gone against Ferrari's principle of have a #1 driver and then a whipping boy driver.
JP Montoya was probably the biggest jerk in F1, I was glad to see him go. Remember this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2eu-V57zpc Walks into a camera and goes off on the camera man. :lol
Also loved David Coulthard's Montoya impression. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sY7cfROScE :lol
Him and Alonso would be a good team. still dont understnad why Ferrari got rid of him so quick.
who watched the race sunday? i missed it :cry
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Kimi is considered by many to be one of the best F1 drivers of a generation. NASCAR fans should feel delighted to have a driver of such high caliber in their sport.
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Kimi is considered by many to be one of the best F1 drivers of a generation. NASCAR fans should feel delighted to have a driver of such high caliber in their sport.
i agree, however I feel hes going from the most prestigious of racing types to an every day joe shmoe racing type. I'm not sayin NASCAR doesn't take skill or ability, but goin from F1 to NASCAR is like going from driving a car to ride a bicycle. its completely different.
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I see a blank, mustard yellow page.
It's a very, very... nauseating yellow.
I can't look at it for too long, makes me want to hurl.
Yup. Finns aren't very good at the internet.
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i agree, however I feel hes going from the most prestigious of racing types to an every day joe shmoe racing type. I'm not sayin NASCAR doesn't take skill or ability, but goin from F1 to NASCAR is like going from driving a car to ride a bicycle. its completely different.
Kimi had a driving seat for both Mclaren and Ferrari during his time in F1. It's extremely unlikely he would get another shot driving for either team if he chose returned to F1. Redbull already have a great driver lineup so his only chance would be to race for a midfield team who only pay semi ridiculous money for drivers.
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Tom Cruise went from open-wheel racing to NASCAR without any problems, so I guess anyone can do it..
:D
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Kimi lost his ride in F1 for a good reason,he likes his Vodka too much!
Anyone remember the Monte Carlo race when Kimi was put out early and decided to join his buddies on a boat for a drink,before the race was even over.
:salute
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Kimi had a driving seat for both Mclaren and Ferrari during his time in F1. It's extremely unlikely he would get another shot driving for either team if he chose returned to F1. Redbull already have a great driver lineup so his only chance would be to race for a midfield team who only pay semi ridiculous money for drivers.
thats true. but those teams are probably still payin more then NASCAR.
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Dadgumit NASCAR is the best!!! They turn LEFT!!!!! WWWOOOWWOOOOOOO!!
:neener:
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I'd like to see American TV announcers try to pronounce his last name, especially since we don't have that 'glottal stop mid-word' deal, or umlauts, or anything... :lol
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Kimi is considered by many to be one of the best F1 drivers of a generation. NASCAR fans should feel delighted to have a driver of such high caliber in their sport.
Not really. I personally think the French have no business in NASCAR.
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+1 :rofl
Him and Alonso would be a good team. still dont understnad why Ferrari got rid of him so quick.
who watched the race sunday? i missed it :cry
Just watched it this morning. In my heart I'm still a Webber fan, but I gotta say I think it's going to be VERY tough to beat Vettel this year. He out-qualified everyone by 8/10ths. That's a big gap in F1, and did it without using KERS to boot.
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Not really. I personally think the French have no business in NASCAR.
:headscratch: Who said anything about the French? :headscratch:
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"Help me Tom Cruise!"
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/seansalsman/talladeganights.jpg)
And now a palette cleanser.....
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f365/Shugarmon/Funny/talladega-nights-the-ballad-of-rick.jpg)
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Unless McLaren get their new car on the track soon, Vettel will run away with the championship.
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:headscratch: Who said anything about the French? :headscratch:
It's a joke. Cause he's not really French.
:huh
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Kimi is considered by many to be one of the best F1 drivers of a generation. NASCAR fans should feel delighted to have a driver of such high caliber in their sport.
Right we should but I guarentte you he can't turn left.
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My, my.... The nose-in-the-air crowd likes to bash the NASCAR drivers, I see.
Maybe they might recall back in 2002 when Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson represented the USA in the Race of Champions. They won the Nation's cup, with a field containing no less than 6 F1 drivers. Moreover, they were driving cars they hadn't even seen until a couple of days prior, in a completely foreign format. Then there was Gordon matching Montoya's lap times in Montoya's Williams on the Indianapolis F1 course, never having driven an F1 car previously, and with less than 45 minutes of seat time. Montoya tried Gordon's car, with far less impressive results.
NASCAR has come light years from the redneck days... The fields are loaded with very good drivers, who have won in many different disciplines. Sprint cars, Midgets, Off Road, Indycar and road racing. Johnson has won 5 NASCAR championships in a row. No one else has won more than 3 in a row, and that happened only once. Gordon has four championships to his credit. F1 drivers have not been successful in NASCAR to date.. Montoya has the best result, but still can't win away from a road course.
On the other hand, we live in a country where Larry the Cable Guy's tour draws bigger crowds than an F1 race... But, that doesn't mean the top tier NASCAR drivers give up anything in talent to the F1 geeks... They don't. Just a different form of equally difficult motorsports.
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So why the ... obsession (too strong a word but can't think of a better one) with hamster wheel race tracks? I mean I can relate to how it's appealing and I can see how racing in that field around those tracks is not at all devoid of skill, but.. Why not throw a couple of actual twisty tracks in the season?
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So why the ... obsession (too strong a word but can't think of a better one) with hamster wheel race tracks? I mean I can relate to how it's appealing and I can see how racing in that field around those tracks is not at all devoid of skill, but.. Why not throw a couple of actual twisty tracks in the season?
They do. Actually exactly a couple.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infineon_Raceway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watkins_Glen_International
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Thanks Kilo, I'll have to watch one of those.
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My, my... NASCAR fans can't take a joke and laugh at themselves, I see. :lol
Seriously... I don't deny the talent of NASCAR drivers, never will, I just think the tracks, and the cars they race are stupid. I question the management too. A guy I know who is a Flowmaster regional-something-or-other, told me that years ago they went to NASCAR and showed them how they could make their race cars 50% quieter with very little power loss. According to him most of the drivers and teams where all for it, saving them from going deaf and all that. But NASCAR killed the idea because they where afraid they would lose fans it the cars weren't extremely loud and shouty. Who cares about drivers and mechanics going deaf... we NEED loud cars. :rolleyes:
Having said that, there is no way most NASCAR drivers could hop in a F1 car and race it to the limit for a whole race without several weeks of physical conditioning first. The G forces in F1 are so much greater then anything stock cars could produce that their neck would give out halfway through the race. But with proper conditioning I'm sure they could be competitive, after all most of them started out in carts just like F1 drivers.
I've said it before, I would love to see an American go kick butt in F1 ala Mario Andretti. But with the popularity of NASCAR, American driving talent can stay at home and make a great living, instead of having to hop all over the world for 9 months a year in F1, plus the years they would have to spend in leagues like GP2 just to get a shot at an F1 seat. There is just no motivation for American talent to pursue F1. Same thing goes for WRC, I know we've got Ken Block... but so far he has been kind of a joke.
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When Formula 1 outdraws NASCAR you can start telling me how F1 more popular. They run 20.... oops, 19 races?
NASCAR runs 40 Sprint Cup, 34 Nationwide Series and 25 CW Truck Series races this year. That's 99 races vs 19. :rock
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Then there was Gordon matching Montoya's lap times in Montoya's Williams on the Indianapolis F1 course... ... Montoya tried Gordon's car, with far less impressive results.
You greatly exaggerate here my friend.
From Gordon's own website.
After one practice lap, Gordon followed with nearly seven laps at speed. The traction control, barred in NASCAR but legal in F1 racing, was put to good use by Gordon coming off the corners. He went off course, albeit briefly, on his first speed lap under braking on the infield straightaway but was turning consistent 1:17 (one minute, seventeen seconds) laps by the end of the run.
To put Gordon's laps in perspective, the pole at last year's U.S. Grand Prix was 1:10 while the slowest speed in the field was 1:13. Montoya then turned a few more laps in Gordon's Chevrolet, clocking in less than a second slower than Gordon's fast lap on the Indy road course during preparations earlier in the day.
They say Montoya was less then a second slower then Gordon in the stock car.
Meanwhile Gordon's best lap in the F1 car was a.................... 1:16.7
Montoya's qualifiying lap for the US GP that year was.............. 1:11.4
5 seconds is an eternity in racing fast laps, with the 107% rule Gordon's lap would not have even qualified for the Grand Prix. I don't know where you got that Gordon was "matching Montoya's lap times in Montoya's Williams on the Indianapolis F1 course" it's not even close.
Not ragging on Gordon at all, I admire his skill, I probably couldn't even get an F1 car (or NASCAR) around a single corner without dying. This was after all just a publicity stunt, and I'll bet the FIA folks told him to not push to hard for fear of crashing a multi-million dollar race car. I'm sure if he dedicated himself to it he could be competitive in F1. Just saying you kinda misrepresented the facts there.
PS: I do like Gordon better then Montoya by far though, no matter what sport. That Montoya guy is a class A Jerkwad.
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Btw...
The only team i could imagine for Kimi is the Red Bull. Mark Webber is just about to retire :devil
The Vettel and Kimi would be world-beating in one team.
This wont happen... but hope dies last.
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My, my.... The nose-in-the-air crowd likes to bash the NASCAR drivers, I see.
Maybe they might recall back in 2002 when Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson represented the USA in the Race of Champions. They won the Nation's cup, with a field containing no less than 6 F1 drivers. Moreover, they were driving cars they hadn't even seen until a couple of days prior, in a completely foreign format. Then there was Gordon matching Montoya's lap times in Montoya's Williams on the Indianapolis F1 course, never having driven an F1 car previously, and with less than 45 minutes of seat time. Montoya tried Gordon's car, with far less impressive results.
NASCAR has come light years from the redneck days... The fields are loaded with very good drivers, who have won in many different disciplines. Sprint cars, Midgets, Off Road, Indycar and road racing. Johnson has won 5 NASCAR championships in a row. No one else has won more than 3 in a row, and that happened only once. Gordon has four championships to his credit. F1 drivers have not been successful in NASCAR to date.. Montoya has the best result, but still can't win away from a road course.
On the other hand, we live in a country where Larry the Cable Guy's tour draws bigger crowds than an F1 race... But, that doesn't mean the top tier NASCAR drivers give up anything in talent to the F1 geeks... They don't. Just a different form of equally difficult motorsports.
I remember watching Jeff Gordon drive that Williams F1 car, the expression on his face once he pitted and removed his helmet was priceless.
BTW, the F1 cars back in 2002 had both launch and traction control, today's cars are much harder to drive now that all driver aids have been removed from them. Also, Jeff Gorden didn't even downshift in the William's, the on board computer did it for him.
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When Formula 1 outdraws NASCAR you can start telling me how F1 more popular. They run 20.... oops, 19 races?
NASCAR runs 40 Sprint Cup, 34 Nationwide Series and 25 CW Truck Series races this year. That's 99 races vs 19. :rock
Do you know how much logistics is involved to move a whole race series around the world?
As far as popularity goes, just look at the viewing figures...
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F1 is one car class - if you're comparing to NASCAR you ought to pick only one class.
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Popularity? Viewing figures?
Face it, the rest of the world is hung up on soccer and F1.
Here in the states, we be a bit more sooophisticated. We gots all kinds 'o crazy jammys to entertain ourselves. Like not-so-stock cars that only turn left.
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i agree, however I feel hes going from the most prestigious of racing types to an every day joe shmoe racing type. I'm not sayin NASCAR doesn't take skill or ability, but goin from F1 to NASCAR is like going from driving a car to ride a bicycle. its completely different.
Actually F1 & Nascar are very similar, both rely on Aero and race management. I think Raikkonen can be easily dispirited, and it'll be interesting to see how he copes
Tronsky
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This guy can't do NASCAR, he has too many teeth in his head.
(just kidding NASCAR fans, I never understood NASCAR)
:cheers:
Me neither. But you seem to understand its fans perfectly (http://www.everyday-wisdom.com/images/redneck.gif)
LOL
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NASCAR is much more physically demanding. Some NASCAR races are go for 500 laps, how many in F1? I think the most I've seen was around 80.
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There was lots of empty seats at Bristol for the Cup race.
I find both F1 and NASCAR Cup racing not that entertaining any more. Usually fall asleep.
F1 races are ~200mi in length.
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There was lots of empty seats at Bristol for the Cup race.
I find both F1 and NASCAR Cup racing not that entertaining any more. Usually fall asleep.
F1 races are ~200mi in length.
LOL I liked F1 when they still looked like cigars with wheels.
To be fair with my opinion of nascar.
I think its another thing that the corporations ruined.
I'd be far more impressed with the sport if it were back to stock cars. And those cars were stock as they came from the factory or at least only allow stock factory parts with some modifications done to the original parts allowed but no outright swapping of stock parts for aftermarket parts
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NASCAR is much more physically demanding. Some NASCAR races are go for 500 laps, how many in F1? I think the most I've seen was around 80.
No way in hell.
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NASCAR is much more physically demanding. Some NASCAR races are go for 500 laps, how many in F1? I think the most I've seen was around 80.
Nascar is demading but F1 is much more harder to do with all those Gs your pulling both ways. I would say its equivalent to Nascar with those laps.
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you cant compare Nascar to F1 two totaly different leagues, cars, racing styles, car designs, drivers... all the F1 drivers that have came to Nascar have come up short and are just average drivers, nothing special from any of them
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you cant compare Nascar to F1 two totaly different leagues, cars, racing styles, car designs, drivers... all the F1 drivers that have came to Nascar have come up short and are just average drivers, nothing special from any of them
How many NASCAR driver qualified to the F1 series and how well they made it there?
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How many NASCAR driver qualified to the F1 series and how well they made it there?
well without doing any in depth research as far as any Nascar Driver going to F1 off the top of my head i would say A.J. Foyt or one of the Andretti's but that was long ago and they both competed in both formats and had great success at each level, F1 and Nascar are two totally separate beasts, They start their carears off at very young ages for the type of racing they want to do, be it F1 ,Open Wheel Dirt, Modified, or Nascar they train for that type of racing, i wouldn't expect any Nascar driver who turns to F1 racing to be any kind of dominating factor against the seasoned F1 drivers, just like i don't expect any F1 driver coming into Nascar to be a dominating factor, there hasn't been one yet, if Montoya is the best thing that's came from F1 then i think the Nascar drivers will be safe, just like F1 drivers will be safe from Nascar drivers trying to become a top F1 Driver, it just requires different training
I'm not saying one series is better than the other you can't, it relies to much on what country you live in..F1 is/has a Europeon History, Nascar has an American History, same concept different cars, i like them both but favor Nascar more simply because i grew up around it :aok
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How many NASCAR driver qualified to the F1 series and how well they made it there?
There is only one I can think of who went from NASCAR to F1 and did well, very, very well in fact. The great Mario Andretti, F1 Champion 1978
The only other American Champion in F1 was Phil Hill back in the early 60's. I don't believe he ever raced a "stock" car series.
Like I said, I'm sure there are some NASCAR drivers have the talent to do well in F1 if they where dedicated to it, but what's their motivation, they can be rock stars right at home in NASCAR.
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NASCAR is much more physically demanding. Some NASCAR races are go for 500 laps, how many in F1? I think the most I've seen was around 80.
I take it your being sarcastic. If not, then i strongly suggest not participating in a topic you don't have any knowledge of.
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After watching the first half of the first race i fell a sleep.. that was one of the most boring races i've ever seen.
You all should watch the former american le mans series, now called intercontinental le mans cup ILMC :).
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I take it your being sarcastic. If not, then i strongly suggest not participating in a topic you don't have any knowledge of.
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After watching the first half of the first race i fell a sleep.. that was one of the most boring races i've ever seen.
You all should watch the former american le mans series, now called intercontinental le mans cup ILMC :).
+1 :aok
or..even the race topic on hand...formula 1 :O
ILMC and F1 put NASCAR to shame. I grew up around NASCAR, but I cant stand watching the dog chase its tail. or the rock em sock em cause they made you mad. F1, and as far as i know, ILMC too, are very gentlemen like sports. you dont bash someone cause you get mad...and even if contact is incidental you could be DQ'd based on the officials thoughts :O
F1 and NASCAR are both a different breed of horse, but they are equally demanding...how fast does F1 get to 100mph? then gettin to 200+ on the starting sdtraight and slowin down to 50 or 60 for the first turn, NASCAR you put your foot in it, shift to 4th (or do they have 5 now?) and let it go.
my .02 on the two different race styles.
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NASCAR you put your foot in it, shift to 4th (or do they have 5 now?) and let it go.
Uh, that's more than a little simplistic... Those guys work their butts off for 3-4 hours. Two totally different sports in totally different cars demanding totally different skill sets.
To understand NASCAR, you need to go to a race. If you don't see one in person, you'll never understand the appeal. Furthermore, the two lowest-attended NASCAR races are the two road-course races, if that tells you anything. At a normal oval track, the people in the stands can watch the entire track, instead of merely a part of it.
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Uh, that's more than a little simplistic... Those guys work their butts off for 3-4 hours. Two totally different sports in totally different cars demanding totally different skill sets.
To understand NASCAR, you need to go to a race. If you don't see one in person, you'll never understand the appeal. Furthermore, the two lowest-attended NASCAR races are the two road-course races, if that tells you anything. At a normal oval track, the people in the stands can watch the entire track, instead of merely a part of it.
I went to one race, it sucked.
Again, there is NO comparison. F1/WRC/ILMC anyday of the week.
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I take it your being sarcastic. If not, then i strongly suggest not participating in a topic you don't have any knowledge of.
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meow
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You greatly exaggerate here my friend.
From Gordon's own website.
They say Montoya was less then a second slower then Gordon in the stock car.
Meanwhile Gordon's best lap in the F1 car was a.................... 1:16.7
Montoya's qualifiying lap for the US GP that year was.............. 1:11.4
5 seconds is an eternity in racing fast laps, with the 107% rule Gordon's lap would not have even qualified for the Grand Prix. I don't know where you got that Gordon was "matching Montoya's lap times in Montoya's Williams on the Indianapolis F1 course" it's not even close.
Not ragging on Gordon at all, I admire his skill, I probably couldn't even get an F1 car (or NASCAR) around a single corner without dying. This was after all just a publicity stunt, and I'll bet the FIA folks told him to not push to hard for fear of crashing a multi-million dollar race car. I'm sure if he dedicated himself to it he could be competitive in F1. Just saying you kinda misrepresented the facts there.
PS: I do like Gordon better then Montoya by far though, no matter what sport. That Montoya guy is a class A Jerkwad.
A couple of points here...
1) Montoya's Williams was not set up for qualifying, it was set up as neutral as possible for Gordon to drive. Neutral is safe, but it isn't fast. Comparing a qualifying lap to Gordon's times is pure apples and oranges. Let's compare Montoya's best time to that of Gordon. Montoya's best lap in that car, that day, was just 1.3 seconds faster than Gordon, and Montoya stated that he was working quite hard to set that lap. On the other hand, we have Gordon, who had never driven the Williams prior, and had never turned a wheel on that road course before. On several segments of the course, Gordon was faster than Montoya. Too fast in one section, actually, as he blew his line and lost time. Keep in mind that Gordon drove just 7 laps... Seven. Give him 50 laps, and then a fresh set of tires and see what happens....
2) Gordon did not attempt to set a fast time in his Monte Carlo. He ran a few laps as a benchmark for Montoya to aim for. When asked if he had been pushing, Gordon replied, "why would I. What purpose would it serve?"
1.3 seconds is nothing when one considers the circumstances. 1.3 seconds is a big wiggle, or a missed shift. Considering that he was driving an unfamiliar car on an unfamiliar course... I call it remarkable. Besides, Gordon had his chance against the best Europe had to offer in the race of champions and walked away with the Nation's trophy, driving unfamiliar cars on an unfamiliar course. People forget, or don't know that Gordon was a Silver Crown champion, driving sprint cars sideways at 150 mph on dirt. King of the Outlaws, Steve Kinser, said that, "I couldn't beat Gordon on dirt the few times we raced together, and I couldn't beat him in stock cars either... That should tell you all you need to know about Jeff Gordon" Kinser has 20 sprint car championships to his credit.
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I went to one race, it sucked.
Again, there is NO comparison. F1/WRC/ILMC anyday of the week.
Michigan Raceway does suck. Try going to Bristol. I do enjoy other forms of racing, Nascar is by far the most popular in the states. Perhaps some F1 drivers could buy some charisma, instead of little pus like Fellipe Massa. JMO
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(http://l.yimg.com/eb/im_siggc4f1Q82s..3vQXslPntv.A---x620-y660/ymv/us/img/flickr/95/31/003569879531.jpg)
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There is still something really fishy about this story. (which is being reported many places now. )
Kimi made over $50,000,000 a year with Ferrari, one of the biggest sports contracts ever, he was offered an F1 seat last year by Toyota (before they pulled out) but turned it down because he wanted a better car and bigger contract. He went to WRC because even though it was a lot less money, he said that rallying was his true passion.
Now he's gonna go to NASCAR?? :headscratch: Starting fresh with a car that likely won't be competitive (new teams never are) where it is not likely he can make anywhere near F1 money?!?! I don't know what's in his mind, but this move seems very, very odd to me. Maybe he's been hitting the vodka a little too hard. Or else he's just trying to build up his "ICE" or whatever it is brand, wherever he can. Or maybe F1 and WRC won't have him anymore because of his lazy attitude and off-track antics so NASCAR is his last resort. Maybe he knows he can make more money in NASCAR then WRC, but then what happened to rallying being his passion. Or it's all a big April fools joke.
I would have more expected him to go into a league like IRL or American LeMans before NASCAR. :headscratch: Unless it's all about money, which is the only logical conclusion I can reach, that he burned to many bridges in F1 to go back, so he's going where the next most money is. But since Ferrari paid him nearly $200 million I still don't get it.
Widewing...
Why you're trying to use a one time publicity stunt with a handicapped F1 car to prove Jeff Gordon is somehow the greatest unknown open-wheel racer is beyond me. NASCAR is not, and will never be in competition with Formula 1 for fans, sponsors, venues, or driver talent, they are two different worlds. (actually just the USA and then the rest of the world) I really have no idea what you're trying to prove. Most NASCAR fans I know are able to take a joke, it's just an easy sport to make fun of, (like curling, or bowling, or snooker ) learn to lighten up and laugh at yourself a little bit. Take me as an example, I'm a curling fan for pete's sake. Go ahead, make fun of curling, I don't care.
Too fast in one section, actually, as he blew his line and lost time.
:lol Yea, they have these things on real race tracks called corners, and you have to place your foot firmly on that squarish pedal next to the long skinny one or else you can't go 'round them. ;)
P.S. How many NASCAR drivers does it take to screw in a light bulb????
Trick question, it's impossible they can only turn left. :lol
(yes I know it takes lots of talent to race NASCAR, the above jokes are purely satire, relax.)
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Here's a video with jenson button replying about the comparison from a fast road car to a F1 car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d3kZ5iH1bg
Jenson Button:
''Its completely different. Its like flying a propeller plane and flying a fighter jet.
Your turning into a high speed corner thinking 'its not gonna go throe there' but the faster you go the more down-force you have the quicker you can go. Thats something which takes a lot of people time to get used to. And some people can get to an F1 driver to about something like 2 seconds if they've raced in other formula's but its that last bit thats very difficult. And they can get to those 2 seconds because they never crashed a F1 car yet.
Those last 2 seconds takes a lot of time and some people will never ever bridge that gap.
Here's another video about the forces a F1 car driver experience on a lap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-eiKYyVr2A
Bottom line - Jeff gordon might get to an F1 drivers lap time to about 2 seconds, but i highly doubt he will last a whole race with that pace. Especially races on tracks like Malaysia this year.
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Saggs,
Kimi always was a problem for the F1 teams,he cant talk in public,they say he suffers from shyness.
Add to that that on more than 1 occasion booze was a problem,trying to smooze a corporate sponsor and having a "shy" tipsy driver isnt going to go over good. Kimi didnt like MC bringing in Hamilton and making him the goto guy so he moved over the the prancing horse team.The team had 3 drivers so they let the old guy retire to keep the young bucks but that didnt work very well so they signed Alonso away from Renault because of various reasons.
I'd like to see Kimi come to Nascar for the season that he'll stay then he'll go home again because he wont be a top runner and he cant handle that.As talented as he is he was rushed into the position of a F1 driver but I dont think he could handle all the off track duties thats goes with those 50 million dollar contracts.
Of course this is just my oppinion,I'm a fan of racing any racing but I havent missed an F1 race since May of 84.
:salute
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I highly respect that morfiend, i stopped watching since 2001 untill the last race of 2007.
Lewis Hamilton FTW!
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I went to one race, it sucked.
Which one? Ultimately, its not for everyone. I can't stand watching Formula 1 either. I did however, get up at 2:00 AM in the morning to watch the Daytona 500s when I lived in Okinawa. Different strokes, and all that...
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Michigan Raceway does suck. Try going to Bristol. I do enjoy other forms of racing, Nascar is by far the most popular in the states. Perhaps some F1 drivers could buy some charisma, instead of little pus like Fellipe Massa. JMO
Ovals are boring altogether.
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Are you kidding me? Ovals are really challenging! I mean, those left turns.. they are hard to get right!
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Ovals are boring altogether.
Except for the first few laps, so is F1. After that, it is just a parade.
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The order of awesomeness
1. ILMC
2. Aussie V8 SuperCar Series (pure awesomeness that NAPCAR should aspire to be like)
3. FIA GT
4. European Touring Cars/DTM/British Touring Car
5. World Challenge
6. Grand Am
7. F1
8. CART
9. IndyCar
10. bicycle racing
12. tricycle racing
13. drunks chasing each other around a grass field
37. NAPCAR
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Touring Car is indeed pure awesome, for example BTCC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXkWUCBoe4k
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Montoya has been edging closer and closer to the front of the pack at the superspeedways as of late and I guess he will next work on his short track skills.
He's a pretty good driver regardless of his perceived personality issues.
I read an interview where he says he enjoys nascar because he can pass and get passed by more cars in 20 laps of nascar driving than his entire formula one career.
Kimi or Schumacher coming over can only help visibilty of both F1 and Nascar.
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:rolleyes: What's next Mikka Hakkinen going to NASCAR. Sorry NASCAR fans, but I just feel like the skills of someone so talented as Kimi (World Champion at the highest level of motorsport) is wasted driving a big fat, noisy sedan around in circles.
Wouldn't be the first driver to do so in recent years, JP Montoya, Scott Speed, but he would be the most successful F1 driver to do so.
I still can't believe that Ferrari got rid of him so easily in 2009 so they could sign Alonso.
Yeah ... Juan Pablo Montoya had a pretty decent pedigree prior to joining NASCAR ... he hasn't even made a dent on the circuit.
Mikka may be great, but we will have to see how he can handle racing with the good ole boys and on tracks where you can actually pass someone at just about any and every corner.
F1 racing bores the piss out of me ... very limited amount of places to pass on those tracks. Get in front and all you have to do is block your way to the finish (at very fast speeds).
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Need to say the F1 and NASCAR are odd. In many ways.
I'm very curious to see Kimi's NASCAR race someday.
'Honey, wake me up if something really happens or just for the 10 last laps, ok?'
BTW
I like the motor bike racing a lot. Plenty of going past and elbow to elbow fights.
I just wonder how the F1 and NASCAR drivers would do in biking area...
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Schuie would do OK in NASCAR. He could become the new [Intimidater[/i] and even give the Schrub a run for his money.
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What, you guys keeping your innermost desires secret?
It's okay, you can all agree with me here...
WRC is where it's at!
(http://citroengirl.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/dsc3801.jpg)
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But since Ferrari paid him nearly $200 million I still don't get it.
With that kind of cash in the bank, his move wouldn't necessarily be all about money. NASCAR drivers do make decent money ya know ;)
Maybe he wants to try the water in a different pool. Whatever his reasons are, if he does join NASCAR, he won't be jumping up on the podium with any regularity at the start.
I can picture his first time at Daytona going into a corner 3 wide at 190+ mph, chittin' his pants and screamin' like a school girl all the way thru the corner.
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if he even makes it all the way through the corner
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I can picture his first time at Daytona going into a corner 3 wide at 190+ mph, chittin' his pants and screamin' like a school girl all the way thru the corner.
start slow in practice, get a feel of the track and the car. isnt that an ironic thought... :O
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start slow in practice, get a feel of the track and the car. isnt that an ironic thought... :O
Yeah ... great preparation for full racing speeds under racing conditions and into a situation (3-wide) that is never encountered in practice ... that will work out great for a newbie NASCAR driver at Daytona.
Like is said ... chittin' his pants and screaming all the way thru.
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Yeah ... great preparation for full racing speeds under racing conditions and into a situation (3-wide) that is never encountered in practice ... that will work out great for a newbie NASCAR driver at Daytona.
Like is said ... chittin' his pants and screaming all the way thru.
I don't know how many practice runs and how many laps to a practice NASCAR gets, but once you get a feel of the car and the track i doubt its not nearly as daunting as it looks.
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I don't know how many practice runs and how many laps to a practice NASCAR gets, but once you get a feel of the car and the track i doubt its not nearly as daunting as it looks.
I don't imagine that the speeds or the track would upset him one bit, but there is never a situation in F1 that could ever prepare anyone going into and thru a corner at 190+ mph with 2 other cars right next to you. Wait till he gets bump drafted for the first time or what will he think when the car behind him fills his rear view mirror and there is another car off his right or left door just 3 feet away and he is only 10 ft behind the car in front of him ... for the whole straight away and then into the corner. You never see those situations in an F1 race.
As Larry the Cable Guy would say ... that's some scary watermelon right there ... I don't care who you are.
I have a feeling that if he does join NASCAR, he will be a lot humbler than his fans are with regards to him racing on a NASCAR track. He may have been god's gift to F1, but that doesn't mean that he will saunter into NASCAR and dominate like he did in F1. If JPM is any indication of a F1 driver transitioning to NASCAR, it will be quite awhile before he see the podium.
I would wish him all the best and hope he has a fruitful career in NASCAR, but all this F1 drivers are the cream of the crop crap and NASCAR drivers can only turn left ... please.
Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson showed the world that NASCAR drivers can turn left and right.
EDIT : When was the last time you went 200+ mph and 190+ mph thru a corner ? I have done 135 on the back stretch of Watkins Glen and then down to 80+ into the "bus stop" ... I don't know about you, but it made my hole pucker each and every time.
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I don't imagine that the speeds or the track would upset him one bit, but there is never a situation in F1 that could ever prepare anyone going into and thru a corner at 190+ mph with 2 other cars right next to you. Wait till he gets bump drafted for the first time or what will he think when the car behind him fills his rear view mirror and there is another car off his right or left door just 3 feet away and he is only 10 ft behind the car in front of him ... for the whole straight away and then into the corner. You never see those situations in an F1 race.
As Larry the Cable Guy would say ... that's some scary watermelon right there ... I don't care who you are.
I have a feeling that if he does join NASCAR, he will be a lot humbler than his fans are with regards to him racing on a NASCAR track. He may have been god's gift to F1, but that doesn't mean that he will saunter into NASCAR and dominate like he did in F1. If JPM is any indication of a F1 driver transitioning to NASCAR, it will be quite awhile before he see the podium.
I would wish him all the best and hope he has a fruitful career in NASCAR, but all this F1 drivers are the cream of the crop crap and NASCAR drivers can only turn left ... please.
Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson showed the world that NASCAR drivers can turn left and right.
EDIT : When was the last time you went 200+ mph and 190+ mph thru a corner ? I have done 135 on the back stretch of Watkins Glen and then down to 80+ into the "bus stop" ... I don't know about you, but it made my hole pucker each and every time.
your right. although there is some buimbs in F1 so a bump wouldnt be to new to him.
I like that Larry the Cable guy. +1
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your right. although there is some buimbs in F1 so a bump wouldnt be to new to him.
I like that Larry the Cable guy. +1
Yeah ... but they aren't bumping at 190+ mph and in most cases the F1 car is out of the race after a true bump where a NASCAR car will keep going if they don't get squirrely and get into the wall.
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Slap, I tend to agree with you even if you overstated a few things. Kimi is "supposed" to be very good on ice and of slippery tracks.I cant say as I havent seen any of his rally driving but thats how he go his F1 ride to begin with.
However if he does come to NASCAR he wont last,like I said he cant or doesnt like to talk and when he does you cant hear him as it's a quiet monotonic persona that comes out. He'll be so outta place from the good Ole boys then even Montoya will seem like one of them!
I've seen him interviewed many times and never once really saw any excitement/anger or any type of emotion..... Hmmm
sort of explains some of his personal demon's.
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Slapshot, you seem to underestimate Kimi.
I agree there is a high chance he will fail, but Kimi is just to chillaxed to scream like a girl with cars around him at 190 mph. I think he doesn't care really
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I think Mika Hakkinnen would be a good nascar driver on the superspeedways.
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ILMC and F1 put NASCAR to shame. I grew up around NASCAR, but I cant stand watching the dog chase its tail. or the rock em sock em cause they made you mad. F1, and as far as i know, ILMC too, are very gentlemen like sports.
Gentlemanly eh? I dont have them on hand but I remember the snooty crowd getting their panties all bunched up when the NASCAR race was set for Indy. They said the rednecks were going to tear the hallowed grounds up.
Guess how many booze related arrests their were. ZERO. They also said there are alway a bunch for the INDY race tho from the snooty guys. Go figure.
Other than that stat,you cant even compare the 2 styles.
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i vote for Ricky Bobby as teh fastest drivr ever!! :x
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Slapshot,
Kimi didn't dominate in F1, No driver has since Schumacher.
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Slapshot,
Kimi didn't dominate in F1, No driver has since Schumacher.
wasnt even a race when Schumacher was in his prime. Soon as he got second or third we knew who was winning.and it was seldom he didnt win unless he let Barrichello win for a change. He lost it since his LOA though :(
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Slapshot,
Kimi didn't dominate in F1, No driver has since Schumacher.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Vettel might yet though.
As for Kimi's demeanor, he is pretty laid back in the Fin way. I used to love Mikka Hakkinen's one syllable answers at podium press conferences. :lol
I think the difference is that Kimi had kind of a lazy who-gives-a-crap attitude off track, which doesn't fly in F1.
Anyone else remember when he missed the drivers' briefing.
Reporter "Kimi, why did you miss the mandatory drivers briefing?"
Kimi "I had to take a s**t!"
And somebody else already mentioned when he was partying on a yacht at Monaco before the race was even over.
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I love the "ovals are boring" crowd. They would rather watch a car run at a fraction of it's speed twisting and turning for a hundred miles or so than a car running flat out on the edge over 500 miles. How are you going to run continuous top speed unless you make the track oval? I'd love to see a NASCAR race from Reno to Vegas, but it ain't gonna happen.
Don't get me wrong, road racing is fun but most tracks are too confined and the speeds too slow. As stated earlier it's all about blocking and follow the leader. Indy is where both worlds meet. Unfortunately, that series is run by idiots.
Rally and Off Road are great with the toughest racing out there, driver and car are pushed to the edge in harsh conditions. I watch WRC when I get the chance and never miss anything on Baja.
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A true motorsports fan can appreciate all forms of racing.
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Slapshot,
Kimi didn't dominate in F1, No driver has since Schumacher.
Kimi didnt dominate in the f1, but he was as fast as Schumacher, who always had the best car between 1999-2004. Kimi was faster then Culthard, Montoya, or Massa. He was in the top 5, who had the same skills (in my opinion): Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel, Kimi, Hamilton. Thats why the last few years were a golden age of the F1, large amount of great drivers.
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I love the "ovals are boring" crowd. They would rather watch a car run at a fraction of it's speed twisting and turning for a hundred miles or so than a car running flat out on the edge over 500 miles. How are you going to run continuous top speed unless you make the track oval? I'd love to see a NASCAR race from Reno to Vegas, but it ain't gonna happen.
Don't get me wrong, road racing is fun but most tracks are too confined and the speeds too slow. As stated earlier it's all about blocking and follow the leader. Indy is where both worlds meet. Unfortunately, that series is run by idiots.
Rally and Off Road are great with the toughest racing out there, driver and car are pushed to the edge in harsh conditions. I watch WRC when I get the chance and never miss anything on Baja.
NASCRAP is run by idiots as well. Restrictor plates bunch cars together. Yellow flag thrown for the slightest things.
Ovals ARE boring rpm. I've driven on MIS a few times when I was a lead test driver for Roush last year. You take a 427R up to 178 mph and see how much easier a banked track is.
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Slapshot, you seem to underestimate Kimi.
I agree there is a high chance he will fail, but Kimi is just to chillaxed to scream like a girl with cars around him at 190 mph. I think he doesn't care really
You may be right, but I don't think so. Going into a corner at close to 200 mph 3-wide with your car on the razors edge of staying on the track or getting loose has to be a pucker moment for anybody ... including the veteran NASCAR drivers, never mind a new NASCAR driver.
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I'll bet Jacques Villeneuve would be good in nascar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5VOe11hzoo
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NASCRAP is run by idiots as well. Restrictor plates bunch cars together. Yellow flag thrown for the slightest things.
Ovals ARE boring rpm. I've driven on MIS a few times when I was a lead test driver for Roush last year. You take a 427R up to 178 mph and see how much easier a banked track is.
You'll get no argument from me on NASCAR's constant reinterpretation of the rules. I hate restrictor plate racing and think there has to be a better way to run at Daytona and Talladega. There will be a race run late this season with McLaren ECU's & fuel injection. Hopefully it's a sign of things to come.
IMHO, ovals are a necessity until something better comes along, like a Reno to Vegas race or a full Nürburgring style 4 lane track. I highly doubt we'll ever see either.
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I'll bet Jacques Villeneuve would be good in nascar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5VOe11hzoo
That wasnt even close to slideways.
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Pretty sideways for not lifting on the most dangerous corner in auto racing.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaH8A95Ixas
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It seems he has signed to drive one of the trucks for Kyle Busch. First race is at Charlotte. At least he knows enough to start at the bottom. Should be fun to watch.
http://www.nascar.com/news/110402/kraikkonen-kybusch-kbm-deal/index.html
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaH8A95Ixas
Those guys were going at it :)
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Piquet & Senna Hungary '86
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Piquet & Senna Hungary '86
Saw em in person with Lauda, Prost and Mansell in 85/86 at the Detroit Grand Prix's. :cool:
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Who said they don't bang in F1?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIXtLt0AlKE
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It seems he has signed to drive one of the trucks for Kyle Busch. First race is at Charlotte. At least he knows enough to start at the bottom. Should be fun to watch.
http://www.nascar.com/news/110402/kraikkonen-kybusch-kbm-deal/index.html
He will have to run an ARCA race before he can get his NASCAR license.
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You sure about that? I dont recall Stewart,Montoya or Danica having to do that.
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He will have to run an ARCA race before he can get his NASCAR license.
Negative as far as I know. Brett Bodine heads up a "committee" that will review "applicants" (in this case, Räikkönen). After this phase they are allowed entry into NASCAR. This is the way I understood at a couple of "track days" at MIS last year.
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So close for junior today :). Harvick had fresher tires dangit!
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Man...he really is "the closer".
Pretty impressive.
Dale is knocking on the door.....glad he didn't try to "build the high groove" like he does on the faster tracks which will eventually pay off for him.
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You sure about that? I dont recall Stewart,Montoya or Danica having to do that.
I know Danica, Montoya and Franchitti all ran ARCA before NASCAR. I'm pretty sure Tony did as well, but I can't find his first ARCA race. It may just be certain tracks they required it on like Daytona and Talladega or it may be a case by case basis. But every driver I can remember that did a crossover had to run ARCA at least once to prove they could handle a stock car before NASCAR let them run.
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Still never seen any racing that beats this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EONExwdrmbk&feature=related
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Still never seen any racing that beats this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EONExwdrmbk&feature=related
That was a nice pass but Im sure it happens all the time when you have two types of racing going on at the same track at the same time. The real shock would be if it didnt.
I would love to see someone create a racing game along those lines. Your not only racing the other guys in your division,but trying to avoid the slower guys as well. Could get mighty interesting.
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That was a nice pass but Im sure it happens all the time when you have two types of racing going on at the same track at the same time. The real shock would be if it didnt.
I would love to see someone create a racing game along those lines. Your not only racing the other guys in your division,but trying to avoid the slower guys as well. Could get mighty interesting.
Its already happening in Rfactor. I participated in the 12 Hours of sebring last saturday with 3 other drivers with driver swaps, live commentary and every little thing.. I had a blast
My response to the LMS Paul ricard start:
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5920/lmsfail.jpg)
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LOL. Nice.
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PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFSSSSSSSHAW
Simpletons all of you.
Everybody who's anybody KNOWS, that the greatest and most eloquent form of motor sport is motorhome racing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohkAxbeMxVo
Sadly it has now been supplanted by airport vehicle racing. :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K05NgDMz2r4
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Hi
According to the Finnish news, kimu's first 400laps test wnet fine in Gresham oval track.
Looking good so far :)
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Hi
According to the Finnish news, kimu's first 400laps test wnet fine in Gresham oval track.
Looking good so far :)
IMO he will be just like montya, good on the road courses, but won't be able to handle the ovals to well.
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Darned double posts
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Hi
According to the Finnish news, kimu's first 400laps test wnet fine in Gresham oval track.
Looking good so far :)
Like Rowdy said..... Now go get your own car and lets see how you do in the pack. :aok
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IMO he will be just like montya, good on the road courses, but won't be able to handle the ovals to well.
I guess the 39 guys that finished behind him last weekend can't handle the ovals to well either.
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Martinsville is a wierd place. Take Jr for instance. Hes sucked all year but almost pulled that race off. Montoya isnt the worst driver out there,but hes never gonna win a championship. It will be a victory for him just to make the chase.
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Still never seen any racing that beats this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EONExwdrmbk&feature=related
That Falken paint job looks good no matter the car, damn..
Watching motorcycle racing for so long, it's so strange to watch car racing where on pretty much any track there's only enough room for about 3 cars. And there's so little visible expression of the chassis as with bikes via the rider on top of it moving around.
Doc- LFS also does this to some degree, but not sure how active those mixed class LFS leagues are now that the scheduled game update is beyond late.
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Doc- LFS also does this to some degree, but not sure how active those mixed class LFS leagues are now that the scheduled game update is beyond late.
LFS? Could you elaborate? Would be kinda cool to have 2 divisions out there at the same time. Someone was running a thread on GT4 and we were comparing lap times. That was pretty fun stuff. Might be time to start another one up.
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Ok I googled it. So its a 1 time fee for the licences? Or is that monthly? Im going to dl the demo and give it a shot. That G25 Logitec wheel is gettin dusty.
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One time, you want S2. S1 nowadays is gonna be ghost town.
Demo should give you an OK idea of the physics. Bear in mind none of the demo cars are really as racy as what you get with license. But the physics are there. Next update's focused on tire physics.
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I guess the 39 guys that finished behind him last weekend can't handle the ovals to well either.
Who did he run agianst? Was it ARCA?
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Who did he run agianst? Was it ARCA?
He finished 4th in the cup race. His highest finish was a 3rd in Texas. In six races he has 1 top 20, 2 top 10, and 2 top 5 finishes. He is currently 7th in the championship with a healthy margin over the 8th and 9th place drivers.
Based on first six races, I'd say Montoya is finally getting a handle on the ovals.
As for Kimi, I wish him the best of luck, only time will tell if can succeed.
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I wouldnt say Montoya was horrid on the ovals,its just a big change from the Formula cars. No traction control,no anti lock brakes.They beat on each other and the cars take it.Hes doing ok. People will run with him now. Thats the hard part. Getting the other drivers to see you can run with them.
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Then they have a road course and everybody want's to follow him to learn his lines.......well...him and Robby Gordon.
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dont forget the road course ringers, Boris Said, Ron Fellows, Tommy Kendal, Scott Pruett, Max Papis, all capable on road courses
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Then they have a road course and everybody want's to follow him to learn his lines.......well...him and Robby Gordon.
I think not. Think more like Mark Martin,Ricky Rudd,Rusty Wallace,Kyle Bush,Jeff Gordon. All have had MUCH better results on road courses. Montoya only won a Sprint Road course once.
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dont forget the road course ringers, Boris Said, Ron Fellows, Tommy Kendal, Scott Pruett, Max Papis, all capable on road courses
Boris Said has always been an overrated, same with Ron Fellows.
Papis and Pruett are good.
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Somme classics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2o1klPy5dU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2o1klPy5dU&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Ifcgl789E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Ifcgl789E)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeQ_jVjBvg4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeQ_jVjBvg4&feature=related)
Quite possibly one of the Greatest First laps in F1 history:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA3Hy0pTjNk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA3Hy0pTjNk)
Speaking of the "physical toll":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkCyo24fABg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkCyo24fABg)
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dont forget the road course ringers, Boris Said, Ron Fellows, Tommy Kendal, Scott Pruett, Max Papis, all capable on road courses
I think the "ringers" have been caught up with by the "regulars". Marcos Ambrose would have won at Infinity if he hadn't screwed up and killed his engine. It was a fluke deal that cost him the race. Marcos runs the full schedule so he can't be considered a ringer, he's a specialist.
hey, I'd love to see an open wheel guy come to NASCAR and be competitive. I want to watch the best race against the best. I'm always rooting for the crossover driver (even Danica) to have a good race. I had high hopes for Dario Franchitti, but he never quite adapted to NASCAR equipment and tactics.
I think Danica might actually become consistently competitive if she keeps following the plan they have laid out for her.
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Different forms of racing are well different. I don't think Kimi will be great right off the bat, but I think he can be competitive eventually (much like Montoya).
My problems with NASCAR are the following (I did watch for a few years as well).
1. Post race driver interviews "Sponsor, sponsor, 110%, my "sponsor" crew, sponsor sponsor sponsor". It drove me nuts.
2. It is supposed to be stock cars! Go out and buy what you see in the race. I like the old days, I would rather watch a race
from 30 years ago that I know the outcome than one from today.
3. The two above ruined the series for me.
I enjoy F1 for the geekyness of it, cars are not meant to be stock, but teams are given a formula and design the best car they can.
The performance of the cars are mind boggling. I used to like playing the papyrus NASCAR sims due to the close racing, but watching
other people drive in circles is boring for me.
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He finished 4th in the cup race. His highest finish was a 3rd in Texas. In six races he has 1 top 20, 2 top 10, and 2 top 5 finishes. He is currently 7th in the championship with a healthy margin over the 8th and 9th place drivers.
Based on first six races, I'd say Montoya is finally getting a handle on the ovals.
As for Kimi, I wish him the best of luck, only time will tell if can succeed.
I'm talking about kimi not montoya
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I can picture his first time at Daytona going into a corner 3 wide at 190+ mph, chittin' his pants and screamin' like a school girl all the way thru the corner.
This actually made me laugh.
Are you familiar with Spa?
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This actually made me laugh.
Are you familiar with Spa?
Or Monza.
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Or Monza.
or WRC?
Those guys have no fear at all. 100mph on snow with trees within touching distance.
I'll take 3 wide anyday.
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This actually made me laugh.
Are you familiar with Spa?
The race track ? ... Nice track.
Or Monza.
Nice track too.
or WRC?
Those guys have no fear at all. 100mph on snow with trees within touching distance.
I'll take 3 wide anyday.
When was the last time you saw a tree pull itself up by its roots, unbeknownst to the driver, and bump one of those cars while at top speed ... in a corner? On the other hand, I have seen those cars mug many a tree. Don't get me wrong, it takes a special person to race one of those cars and even a more special person to be a passenger who has no control of the car.
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I agree the trees don't usually jump out in front of rally cars, but cows, kangaroos, and donkeys do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=598asTZ3rlY
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i wish they did show WRC on TV more , everytime i was able to watch it looks intense and your right about the navigator, poor fool is along for the ride with no control over the car
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I agree the trees don't usually jump out in front of rally cars, but cows, kangaroos, and donkeys do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=598asTZ3rlY
Ouch !
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When was the last time you saw a tree pull itself up by its roots, unbeknownst to the driver, and bump one of those cars while at top speed ... in a corner? On the other hand, I have seen those cars mug many a tree. Don't get me wrong, it takes a special person to race one of those cars and even a more special person to be a passenger who has no control of the car.
Yeah, sure...
The NASCAR guys in WRC car? Ouch... Big time.
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Yeah, sure...
The NASCAR guys in WRC car? Ouch... Big time.
Robby Gordon runs the Baha every year.
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Dunno baha, but is there a wet&dry and everything between tarmac, gravel, mud, snow & ice?
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Robby Gordon runs the Baha every year.
And he won his class in 2006 ...
NASCAR fans will be sure to enjoy the coverage of November's legendary SCORE Baja 1000. The team of Robby Gordon and Andy McMillin captured the overall and SCORE Trophy Truck victory.
Gordon started the race and went about halfway down the peninsula before handing the truck over to McMillin, boarding a helicopter and then a jet to get to Miami for the NASCAR season finale. The duo's total time was second overall, at 19 hours, 15 minutes and 27 seconds, 54.41 mph. The win is Gordon's third in the Trophy Truck class in the Baja 1000.
This year's Baja 1000 had a race-record of 431 starters and 234 finishers from 38 states and 12 countries.
Edit : Some more interesting tid bits ...
In 2005 Gordon took part in the famous 16 day Dakar Rally, driving for the Red Bull sponsored Volkswagen team. He became the first American in the history of the rally to win a stage in the car division. He won two stages in total and a 12th place division finish.
In 2006, Gordon took part in the Dakar Rally in a Hummer H3. Team Dakar USA did well until stage 9, when a damaged radiator caused late arrival at Atar, Mauritania, and subsequent disqualification.
Gordon competed in his third Dakar Rally in 2007, driving the Monster Energy Hummer H3 for Team Dakar USA. He finished in the 8th position, his best finish in this race.
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Dunno baha, but is there a wet&dry and everything between tarmac, gravel, mud, snow & ice?
The Baha is no cake walk.Its through the desert in mexico.A timed event much like Rally Racing.
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Hi
I understood so, Kimi made pretty good results in NASCAR tests. WTG Kimi :)
BTW
You don't see too many jumps in NASCAR. The Rally guys are jumping allover despiting the surface & weather :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4vxLuwn2zA
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(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7307/st185safari93.jpg)
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The Baha is no cake walk.Its through the desert in mexico.A timed event much like Rally Racing.
The Baja is like rallying X 10.
Being a much, much longer overland race, Baja doesn't require the absolute precision that WRC does. But overall I'd say Baja is much more grueling, they've got asphalt, dry river beds, sand, silt, river crossings, beaches etc... Also I love how they just ram the truck in of them front to let them now they wanna pass, :lol and you're racing 4-8+ hours at a time, or much longer if you're a single driver, or in the VW Bug class (those guys are weird)
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The race track ? ... Nice track.
Excellent, yes.
If familiar, why would you make such a ridiculous crack about Kimi and Daytona?
Seems to me he'll need a cup holder and a magazine rack; not diapers.
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I'm wondering if F1 will win some more American fans when it comes back to the US in Austin next year. Hope so.
Also I just watched the Malaysia GP, good race, Vettel is gonna be tough to beat this year.
And this talk about going 3 wide into corners at Daytona in NASCAR is just silly... :rofl
Look
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3fXKGkf-N3gu0gGN4Pj39rHvEtCVTz74YwJWTzX2iI1jdQo3T8-ECgJc)
There ARE NO CORNERS at Daytona.
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There ARE NO CORNERS at Daytona.
At speeds nearing 200 mph and tires half as wide as F1 cars,those are corners. NASCAR doesnt have all that namby pamby traction control and crap. They run em on the edge. F1 just gets better down force the faster ya go.
Apples and oranges.
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At speeds nearing 200 mph and tires half as wide as F1 cars,those are corners. NASCAR doesnt have all that namby pamby traction control and crap. They run em on the edge. F1 just gets better down force the faster ya go.
Apples and oranges.
No traction control in F1 anymore..
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At speeds nearing 200 mph and tires half as wide as F1 cars,those are corners. NASCAR doesnt have all that namby pamby traction control and crap. They run em on the edge. F1 just gets better down force the faster ya go.
Apples and oranges.
Nascar tires are not half as wide. ~304mm for a Nascar tire versus a 270mm tread width for formula one dry weather tire.
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So much ignorance in this thread, I must say that I've been biting my tongue.
The only reason NASCAR can do 200MPH, three wide, is because the tracks they run on have cambered turns.
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At speeds nearing 200 mph and tires half as wide as F1 cars,those are corners. NASCAR doesnt have all that namby pamby traction control and crap. They run em on the edge. F1 just gets better down force the faster ya go.
Apples and oranges.
What kind of lateral G forces does one get in a NASCAR car in a "corner" with a 30° or greater bank??? And there is what?? 4-5 "corners" on a lap, vs. 15-20+ on an F1 track. That's not cornering, that's driving in a really big circle really fast.
F1 cars not only have better aero-grip, they also have pretty good mechanical grip, since every track has both high and low speed corners, and the tires are not bigger, they are actually smaller. Traction control and launch control where done away with 2 years ago when they went to a standard ECU so they could enforce it.
Yes I know it's all apples to oranges, I just like to get the NASCAR fans all riled up :devil . I don't care who you are, driving in a big banked oval is not cornering. Cornering requires braking in, downshifting, hitting an apex, and accelerating out.
Like I said, I admit NASCAR takes talent and skill, so does finishing concrete, and calculus, and knitting. They're all boring to watch too. :bolt:
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These days being a F1 driver requires alot of in cockpit button/paddle management! In NASCAR it's basic shift gears and steering,sure they can control some things in NASCAR and they can certainly change how the car behaves when in the pits.
The F1 cars use a steering wheel worth around 50 grand because of all the computer tech and switches,watching some in cockpit views in this last race,I was amazed at the workload from that alone.The driver can adjust so many parameters of the car on the fly that it's no wonder theres such a difference in lap times.
The bottom line is both sports are so different you just cant compare the 2 and just because a drive is good in 1 form doesnt mean he can even compete in another.Look at Unser,little Al,he went to F1 for 1 dismal season and I dont think he even finish a race before he gave up and went home.Now that same man on a Indy Car oval is a force to be reckoned with but the cars are so different it becomes a specialist type of thing.
I relate it to flying,look at how the different plane preform and handle,the cars are the same sort of thing.
All those guys put their lives on the line every time they line up for a race so they all have my respect no matter what form of racing they do. :aok
:salute
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I will admit my knowledge on the F1 cars seems to be off but thats only because it bores the crap out of me and I dont watch it. Now if I watched it,Im sure I would be up on all the nuances that make ANY form of racing exciting to watch. Most of the Nascar guys started out on dirt. I would love to see the Indy guys take a shot at that. Then again...apples and oranges.
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I had a vendor asked me if I could make it to NASCAR race in Texas this past week end. I told him I was a little busy, but I knew of a couple boys that sure would love to go. Oldest boy said it was the most fun he has ever had.
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj41/cooked2008/dallas.jpg)
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I had a vendor asked me if I could make it to NASCAR race in Texas this past week end. I told him I was a little busy, but I knew of a couple boys that sure would love to go. Oldest boy said it was the most fun he has ever had.
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj41/cooked2008/dallas.jpg)
Thank you. One post in this thread that is not full of FAIL.
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Excellent, yes.
If familiar, why would you make such a ridiculous crack about Kimi and Daytona?
Seems to me he'll need a cup holder and a magazine rack; not diapers.
Because he has a playstation on his steering wheel in F1. NASCAR has no driver assistance. He'll need a magazine rack to hold all the rookie instruction manuals.
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Nascar tires are not half as wide. ~304mm for a Nascar tire versus a 270mm tread width for formula one dry weather tire.
Front Tires: (when mounted and inflated to 1.4 bar)
Section Width - 305-355mm
Tread Width - 270mm
Groove Width - 14mm that tapers down to 10mm
Groove Depth - 2.5mm minimum
Distance between grooves - 50 mm center to center
Diameter - 660 mm (670mm for wets)
These are generally fitted to 12.7x13" rims
Rear Tires: (when mounted and inflated to 1.4 bar)
Section Width - 365-380mm
Tread Width - not specified
Groove Width - 14 mm that tapers to 10mm
Groove Depth - 2.5 mm minimum
Distance between grooves - 50 mm center to center
Diameter - 660 mm (670 mm for wets)
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The funny thing about regular grooved tires is that if you drive them long enough you get racing slicks.
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Because he has a playstation on his steering wheel in F1. NASCAR has no driver assistance. He'll need a magazine rack to hold all the rookie instruction manuals.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. I've driven both ovals and road courses. I've done laps in both a Formula Atlantic car and a "detuned" stock car. There is just no comparison at any level. The sheer physical toll enacted on your body, alone, is enough to separate the two. That is not to say one is "better" than the other, but I have no doubt that transitioning from F1 to NASCAR is much easier than the inverse.
Going around an oval, in a banked corner, you are subjected to what... 1-2 lateral G's? Maybe 3 at most? Some tracks on the F1 circuit result in G forces closer to F16's than cars. After all, a modern F1 car is, for all intents and purposes, an upside-down airplane. The faster you go, the more downforce you generate and the higher your aerodynamic grip. The higher your level of grip, the higher the limit of adhesion and the greater the forces to which the driver is subjected. There is a reason these guys look exhausted after a race and there is a reason they don't go 500 miles. The human body couldn't take that level of punishment for that length of time.
In a Winston Cup car, you have a steering wheel, a gear lever and three pedals. In a Formula 1 car, you have a steering wheel, a sequential-manual gearbox and controls for myriad other adjustments to the car. KERS (power boost), DRS (rear wing deflection adjustment), brake bias, etc, etc. All of these things are adjusted on the fly, constantly. The workload is massively increased.
Just think of the complications of DRS for a moment. If you have any track experience, you can imagine how difficult it would be to manage the immediate removal of a couple hundred pounds of downforce on the rear of a mid-engined car; only to then have it slapped back down in milliseconds. The entire behavior of the vehicle is altered. All of us arm-chair quarterbacks would spin, based upon DRS management alone, going in a straight line.
Head on over to www.F1.com, sign up for an account and watch some of the older videos... these guys are, quite literally, adjusting F/R brake bias in every single braking zone for that extra 0.0001 of a second based on a dozen variables specific to that specific turn-in. This is why Gordon received a "protected" F1 car for his publicity stunt.
There is absolutely no doubt that Gordan is unbelievably talented; as are all professional drivers, regardless of where they race, but everything happens faster in a an F1 car; by multiples... even the most seasoned of drivers, when they first sit in the cockpit and go for a lap, can be overwhelmed very quickly. The thought process needs to go from 'holy crap fast' to 'are you kidding me? fast'
Again, please don't construe any of this as a hit on NASCAR. I appreciate all forms of motorsport... but proclaiming that Scuderia Ferrari's F1 Champion is somehow going to need instruction manuals and diapers to run a stock car at Daytona is just silly. In comparison to his history in F1 and WRC, NASCAR is going to seem like slow-motion to Kimi.
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I'm wondering if F1 will win some more American fans when it comes back to the US in Austin next year. Hope so.
I will be there. :rock
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The track which is being built in Texas looks more like a roller coaster than a race circuit. It's going to be a thing of beauty! :aok
(http://www.formula1.com/wi/597x478/manual/f1_usgp_basictrack_layoutwelevation.jpg)
I'm sure Petrov can beat his current flying record by using the straight before T1 as a ramp.
(http://2or4.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/petrov_airborne.jpg)
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Petrov's move was funny.
At first, I just thought he had an off since the live feed missed it, initially, but when they showed the replay with the steering column breaking and then the out-of-car camera view of him in the air (above) I did actually laugh.
As for Austin, if that is the final design of the circuit, Turn 1 is going to be a squeak. In fact, if I try and think like a race engineer, I'd have no idea how to create a baseline setup for that track, other than "everything neutral and let's see what happens..."
There are long straights, where you want low downforce, but Turn 1, alone, is going to require massive aerodynamic *and* mechanical grip (and, might I say, screw Pirelli and their new tires... you can't have marbles at the top level of motorsport...).
The rest of the track, with it's elevation changes, is going to make for some very interesting racing. The hump between 11 and 12 looks downright dangerous; I bet we see a couple guys loose it there during the first couple practice sessions and they come on and off the throttle when the car gets light. 2 through 7 also looks deceptive ala the S's at VIR or Road Atlanta.
I like. That's a proper race track... far better than, as Villeneuve so aptly put it, the "Mickey Mouse" course at Indy... which comment, as long as it has been mentioned, also resulted in what was, in my opinion, the greatest F1 paddock interview of all time... (para-phasing):
Interviewer: "Michael, Michael! What are your thoughts on the new, US GP circuit at Indianapolis? How does it compare with Jacques Villeneuve's opinion?
Schumacher: "Oh? What is Jacques opinion of the circuit?" (Smile)
Interviewer: "He has referred to the layout as "Mickey Mouse.""
Schumacher: (Brief pause) "Then it should suit him." (Smile, walk away)
:lol
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQP4XKuiDt0
One of my favorite (amateur) compilations for those without an account.
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http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJUhu13qp8Oc&feature=player_embedded&start1&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dseget3zOj_8&start2&authorName=Not+Sure
And... some perspective: A comparison between "fast" and "(expletive)."
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http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJUhu13qp8Oc&feature=player_embedded&start1&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dseget3zOj_8&start2&authorName=Not+Sure
And... some perspective: A comparison between "fast" and "(expletive)."
I loved this... Great comparison of the of the relative speeds. For those unfamiliar with road racing, it presents a stark contrast.
It does, however, remind me of what I learned early in my road racing days (club racing with a 1958 Alfa Giulietta circa 1971-73); "any driver can go fast in a fast car, but it takes skill and talent to go fast in a slow car." Another good one to remember is, "slow is smooth and smooth is fast." Driving a G Production Alfa, these concepts brought some solace when being lapped by a C production Sunbeam Tiger or having to move off of the racing line for a pair of 240Zs dueling for a class win. Nonetheless, there was real truth in the adages. I found that I could compete with many of the F Production Spitfires and Midgets. Occasionally, I could run with the E Production back markers (mostly MGBs driven by guys who were more into the scene than actually racing for a win). speed is all relative... Driving at the limit is still the challenge.
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Papyrus made some goos sims in their day.They had a Grand Prix one that I remember being just the toughest sim Ive run. Those older GP cars didnt have aero or any of that crap.You had to DRIVE those suckers. It was a rush digging those out of the turns right on the edge of control.
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(http://2or4.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/petrov_airborne.jpg)
I cracked up at this in the race too. Although it could have injured his spine pretty good, bet it hurt like a mother. Ironic part of it was that Petrov told Martin Brundle on the grid before the race "I know a few tricks around this circuit." :lol
So far this season I'm pretty bummed that Robert Kubica is out. :( With the podiums that Renault has had in the first 2 races, I can't help but think that Kubica would be kicking butt in that car, right up there with Vettel, Webber, Hamilton, Button and Alonso in the championship hunt.
Also how about that Paul Di Resta guy? I'm thinking he could be a future superstar. Coming in his rookie year and easily matching his more experienced teammate.
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One way to settle this one.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AmxNnT1K9xs/SUbi5jgPMYI/AAAAAAAAANw/izitcKWZqdU/s400/formula_1_babes.jpg)
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One way to settle this one.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AmxNnT1K9xs/SUbi5jgPMYI/AAAAAAAAANw/izitcKWZqdU/s400/formula_1_babes.jpg)
Don't even start with the grid girls... that will get messy.
Let us end the argument with moisture... rain in NASCAR means... what? ;)
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The track which is being built in Texas looks more like a roller coaster than a race circuit. It's going to be a thing of beauty! :aok
(http://www.formula1.com/wi/597x478/manual/f1_usgp_basictrack_layoutwelevation.jpg)
I'm sure Petrov can beat his current flying record by using the straight before T1 as a ramp.
(http://2or4.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/petrov_airborne.jpg)
Very nice!
If this is the end result for the new track I cant wait to see an F1 race there. Mazz,I totally agree with your assessment of the track,that hump looks"interesting" to say the least.There's a long run coming out of the last corner to the finishline then up the hill to corner 1,thats gonna be a huge overtaking spot and likely a car collector at the starts.
The new DRS system has me somewhat confussed,exactly when they can use or not use it,doesnt make sense to me. I get the KERS,use it till it's used up and you cant get a full charge back till you cross the line,this makes sense but the DRS is being regulated way too much.
I can only wonder what a handfull the car would be if the KERS quit,it's part of the braking system and affects the brake bias so if you lose it your bias will be slightly.......ERR different!! :O
Oh and say what you will about Petrov,he can still learn a thing or 2 from Webber on flying an F1 car.
:salute
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The new DRS system has me somewhat confussed,exactly when they can use or not use it,doesnt make sense to me. I get the KERS,use it till it's used up and you cant get a full charge back till you cross the line,this makes sense but the DRS is being regulated way too much.
Cut and paste from F1.com:
Adjustable rear wings
Under new moveable bodywork regulations, drivers of suitably equipped cars can adjust the rear wing from the cockpit, altering its angle of incidence through a set range. (The moveable front wing, used in 2010, has been dropped.) The system’s availability is electronically governed - it can be used at any time in practice and qualifying (unless a driver is on wet-weather tyres), but during the race can only be activated when a driver is less than one second behind another car at pre-determined points on the track. The system is then deactivated once the driver brakes. In combination with KERS, it is designed to boost overtaking. Also like KERS, it isn’t compulsory.
The bold portion is the important part. At each circuit, there is an imaginary line. After the car crosses that line, the rear wing can be moved, but only if the driver is within one second of the car ahead of him. If no car is within one second, the wing remains static. Throughout the season, that imaginary line will almost certainly end up on the longest straights at each circuit.
Oh and say what you will about Petrov,he can still learn a thing or 2 from Webber on flying an F1 car.
I must preface this with the fact that I am a huge Webber fan; but that display of "aerobatics" last year made my heart stop. The fact that he actually walked out of that car is a testament to modern safety gear... I expected a Massa-like result.
That being said; much like Seb's ridiculous "move" last year at (was it Turkey or Hungary?) that knocked both RBR cars off track, the Webber flight was not his fault. He just couldn't react to what the slower car did in the time available. He had his plan to go around the slower car and the slower car tried to yield Webber the best line. Yielding the line makes sense for someone without any experience; but, as you well know, Mort, it is the absolute worst possible thing you can do while being overtaken (exception being multi-class racing ala ALMS on VERY long straights, in some cases, and even then nowhere near the pit exit). Might as well slam on your brakes, too...
Either way, I'm glad to have F1 back in the 'States at a *proper* race track. :rock
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That bold print about when a wing is active seems like some form of remote control.
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Papyrus made some goos sims in their day.They had a Grand Prix one that I remember being just the toughest sim Ive run. Those older GP cars didnt have aero or any of that crap.You had to DRIVE those suckers. It was a rush digging those out of the turns right on the edge of control.
You can find the Grand Prix Legends 2004 Demo d/l link bottom of this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_Legends
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Cool. Ive got the game someplace in this house. Gawd knows where tho. I had the first Papy Nascar game on floppies. They really had a way of putting you right there.
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I remember nascar 1.
It was great fun starting the race from the rear, turning around and hitting the pack head on to see if you could involve every single car in the crash.
If you ran into the pace car, someone said "what the hell was that?"
Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix series of formula one sims is still possibly one of the most accurately modeled race sim of all time and unbelievably difficult without any driver's aids on........which is how real men drove the sim.
Viper Racing was a spin off of Grand Prix Legends and may have even preceded GPL but it was the same sim but with a different car set.
Multiplayer racing was available in all 3 though I believe Grand Prix series required a serial cable and I remember creating batch files with a long string of command line arguments to play some of these on windows 3.11 wfw.
Win 95 was a bit easier but it worked best with these games that used the 4gw dos 32 bit extender if you used a shortcut that shut down windows 95 and then you wrote custom config files to end up with the perfect setup that yeilded at least 615k of conventional memory available with everything possible loaded to high memory.
My CDrom boot discs still use those config.sys and autoexec.bat files to this day.
good stuff.
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Good lord I played Viper racing for eons. That was a fun sim. Kinda arcady but loads of fun. Played Nascar over the modem with a buddy.We would race Mi and all other cars were fair game for contact.We would just avoid direct contact with each other. We could wreck someone ELSE tho and try to take each other out lol.Needless to say the track was down to the 2 of us real quickly :D
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Viper Racing was awesome. The racetracks' scenery?? Haven't had such a great feeling from track environments ever since. That canyon map was just great.. It had everything.
I spent probably half a dozen weekends straight coming in 3-4 points behind Nussbaum in final championship standings.
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Viper Racing was awesome. The racetracks' scenery?? Haven't had such a great feeling from track environments ever since. That canyon map was just great.. It had everything.
I spent probably half a dozen weekends straight coming in 3-4 points behind Nussbaum in final championship standings.
Try Iracing.
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I still have the folder with the saved settings and a few "carreers" so new install can instantly net you all the good settings and careers at different stages of completion.
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Pah, try running a nascar round Vegas baby - much fun. The idea is to stay 3 - 5 car lengths behind the pace car - found this was causing me to blend off the throttle, so let him get a bit in front and then gathered him in.
Proof:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lftiG_IjJY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lftiG_IjJY)
Wurzel
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Try Iracing.
Does it have a canyon country racetrack like Viper Racing's?
Otherwise it's too much $$ for too little extra substance. I'm not a physics nazi, so either one's "almost perfect" physics are good enough, and the price difference makes the choice for me. Also by principle I don't like paying for something and then not being able to use it.
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We're going to have to agree to disagree. I've driven both ovals and road courses. I've done laps in both a Formula Atlantic car and a "detuned" stock car. There is just no comparison at any level. The sheer physical toll enacted on your body, alone, is enough to separate the two. That is not to say one is "better" than the other, but I have no doubt that transitioning from F1 to NASCAR is much easier than the inverse.
Going around an oval, in a banked corner, you are subjected to what... 1-2 lateral G's? Maybe 3 at most? Some tracks on the F1 circuit result in G forces closer to F16's than cars. After all, a modern F1 car is, for all intents and purposes, an upside-down airplane. The faster you go, the more downforce you generate and the higher your aerodynamic grip. The higher your level of grip, the higher the limit of adhesion and the greater the forces to which the driver is subjected. There is a reason these guys look exhausted after a race and there is a reason they don't go 500 miles. The human body couldn't take that level of punishment for that length of time.
In a Winston Cup car, you have a steering wheel, a gear lever and three pedals. In a Formula 1 car, you have a steering wheel, a sequential-manual gearbox and controls for myriad other adjustments to the car. KERS (power boost), DRS (rear wing deflection adjustment), brake bias, etc, etc. All of these things are adjusted on the fly, constantly. The workload is massively increased.
Just think of the complications of DRS for a moment. If you have any track experience, you can imagine how difficult it would be to manage the immediate removal of a couple hundred pounds of downforce on the rear of a mid-engined car; only to then have it slapped back down in milliseconds. The entire behavior of the vehicle is altered. All of us arm-chair quarterbacks would spin, based upon DRS management alone, going in a straight line.
Head on over to www.F1.com, sign up for an account and watch some of the older videos... these guys are, quite literally, adjusting F/R brake bias in every single braking zone for that extra 0.0001 of a second based on a dozen variables specific to that specific turn-in. This is why Gordon received a "protected" F1 car for his publicity stunt.
There is absolutely no doubt that Gordan is unbelievably talented; as are all professional drivers, regardless of where they race, but everything happens faster in a an F1 car; by multiples... even the most seasoned of drivers, when they first sit in the cockpit and go for a lap, can be overwhelmed very quickly. The thought process needs to go from 'holy crap fast' to 'are you kidding me? fast'
Again, please don't construe any of this as a hit on NASCAR. I appreciate all forms of motorsport... but proclaiming that Scuderia Ferrari's F1 Champion is somehow going to need instruction manuals and diapers to run a stock car at Daytona is just silly. In comparison to his history in F1 and WRC, NASCAR is going to seem like slow-motion to Kimi.
I completely agree they are 2 completely different disciplines. But you made my point for me. In F1 the driver can constantly tune his car on the track to his liking. In NASCAR the driver has to know how to manage his machine and conserve his resources to the next pit where adjustments can be made. That is where open wheel drivers have trouble when crossing over. It's a different strategy to learn at 200 going into turn 1, 3 wide.
Yes F1 cars create more downforce at speed and thus more G's in the turns at high speed. They cancelled the CART race at Texas Motor Speedway due to that. Drivers were getting G-lock in turns 1 & 3. Does that make an oval bad? No, it just means you need a bigger oval like Michigan, California, Talladega or Daytona. I'd throw Indy in there, but it's not really an oval.
Again, I love all forms of racing and I'd love to see a NASCAR roadrace from Reno to Vegas. Now that would be entertaining.
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But Indy does have 4 real corners, unlike the other NASCAR oval tracks.
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It appears that I will be trying to team with DutchGuy in rFactor. Looking at wheels right now. :rock
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I can't wait for Rfactor 2 to be released. :joystick:
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Does it have a canyon country racetrack like Viper Racing's?
Otherwise it's too much $$ for too little extra substance. I'm not a physics nazi, so either one's "almost perfect" physics are good enough, and the price difference makes the choice for me. Also by principle I don't like paying for something and then not being able to use it.
No canyon country there all realistic tracks. I beileve you can still get the deal 1 month pay 2 free ? I'm not sure. Its only $12 a month. Great game.
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It appears that I will be trying to team with DutchGuy in rFactor. Looking at wheels right now. :rock
Logitec makes a great one. I have the G 25.ran 220 bucks but it is as solid as the ch stuff so it will last.
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p128/Kevorkian_2007/002.jpg)
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GTL and GTR had some great massively multiplayer racing.
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The Chinese GP was not a bad F1 race (not the usual F1 parade race) but the 'Daga' NASCAR was a country mile better.
First and second places separated by .001 second and with 8 cars crossing the line within a car length of each other. Iirc there was some 90 lead changes.
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That race was nuts. Freakin Newman got that car totaly sideways and caught it..........TWICE!! Friggin Kurt Bush needed to be taken off the track and sat down.
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Kurt Bush needed to be taken off the track and sat down.
Maybe but they did show one car having some grease applied to the rear bumper so the front bumper of the following car would slide better across the front car's bumper.
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Yea,but 3 cars spun off his nose. Its all a product of that kind of racing tho. They need to do something wit those cars.
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Logitec makes a great one. I have the G 25.ran 220 bucks but it is as solid as the ch stuff so it will last.
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p128/Kevorkian_2007/002.jpg)
Doc - do you have any additional pictures of that setup you built?
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China.
Webber.
Started 18th.
Finished 3rd.
No KERS.
Sebastian who?
:rock
(http://images.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/03/12/12Alonso_m_m.jpg)
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Doc - do you have any additional pictures of that setup you built?
Sure do. I even had a computer chair hooked up to it at one point. Send me your e mail and I'll shoot a few off to ya. I used boards from a waterbed for the frame mostly. Sturdy as hell. :aok
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Webber could have easily of taken second place if his first stint wasn't such a disaster. It goes to show how valuabe a fresh set of soft tires are.
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The Chinese GP was not a bad F1 race (not the usual F1 parade race) but the 'Daga' NASCAR was a country mile better.
First and second places separated by .001 second and with 8 cars crossing the line within a car length of each other. Iirc there was some 90 lead changes.
3 wide stacked into the last corner ... 4 wide coming down the straight to the finish line ... was a crazy finish for sure.
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I really hate whats happened to Daytona and Talledega racing. 2 cars at a time just bump drafting away. Its caused a lot of wrecks.
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Webber could have easily of taken second place if his first stint wasn't such a disaster. It goes to show how valuabe a fresh set of soft tires are.
I will once again state that I do *not* like the new tires. FIA wants increased degradation... fine... but the marbles ("Klag" in Euro-speak) are/(is) downright dangerous.
I would not be surprised, assuming the tire formula is not changed, if the teams banded together and sent a boycott message ala the US GP at Indy way back when over that tire safety issue.
You simply cannot be driving over 'rubber gravel' at 200MPH.
Did you see the slow-motion replay of that massive, 1x1 inch piece of tire that was bouncing along the track at China? I don't want to think about what would happen if a piece like that impacted a driver's visor at those speeds... again with a reference to Massa...
Very, VERY displeased with Pirelli. They know better...
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I really hate whats happened to Daytona and Talledega racing. 2 cars at a time just bump drafting away. Its caused a lot of wrecks.
And some GREAT racing. :aok
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And some GREAT racing. :aok
Great finishes. The rest of it not so much.
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And some GREAT racing. :aok
Great racing is right, the two car train was amazing to watch them fall to the back of the Field then come storming back thru, many drivers had close calls and some crashed out but the best save of the day would have to go to Ryan Newman X2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIxU3LR3WXU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIxU3LR3WXU&feature=related)
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Yea Ryans a dirt racer from way back. That first one he saved was just insane. He was all but 90 deg slideways and just caught it at 190 mph. THATS skills :)
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I miss the old days of NASCAR when you had showroom type cars that were driven on Sunday. Those were the days when I enjoyed watching it. at least then you could tell which car was a Chevy, Ford, Pontiac, Dodge, etc...
With drivers that gave pit crew and family members rides in the right side with no safety gear for laps around Talladega at 180+mph. I heard Bobby Allison talking about that last week when he took his wife on a few laps around the track at Talladega that fast and she didn't talk to him for a few weeks.
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I miss the old days of NASCAR when you had showroom type cars that were driven on Sunday. Those were the days when I enjoyed watching it. at least then you could tell which car was a Chevy, Ford, Pontiac, Dodge, etc...
With drivers that gave pit crew and family members rides in the right side with no safety gear for laps around Talladega at 180+mph. I heard Bobby Allison talking about that last week when he took his wife on a few laps around the track at Talladega that fast and she didn't talk to him for a few weeks.
+1
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Yea Ryans a dirt racer from way back. That first one he saved was just insane. He was all but 90 deg slideways and just caught it at 190 mph. THATS skills :)
I was looking that flick and it's more about Newman's luck, than skill.
Montoya's car stopped the Newman's spin to max 45deg and finally give a small smack to settle the Newman's car.
Second time? Eh, the guy was just waiting & praying.
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I guarantte you that there will be a new car built for the 2 car draft. It will have an air duct that goes through to the back car so it will not overheat.
I should patent this :)
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What's to stop a really daring driver from making it a 3 car train?
You would think nascar driver's daring enough to try this but I didn't see any in this race.
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cause it slows the cars down
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What's to stop a really daring driver from making it a 3 car train?
You would think nascar driver's daring enough to try this but I didn't see any in this race.
The car in the middle would just be along for the ride.No control of the car.
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I was looking that flick and it's more about Newman's luck, than skill.
Montoya's car stopped the Newman's spin to max 45deg and finally give a small smack to settle the Newman's car.
Second time? Eh, the guy was just waiting & praying.
For sure Montoya saved him,but at those speeds he was more than just lucky. :aok
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The car in the middle would just be along for the ride.No control of the car.
So his wheels magically levitate off the ground?
I've seen 6 car trains before in nascar....just not this season.
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So his wheels magically levitate off the ground?
I've seen 6 car trains before in nascar....just not this season.
And you wont with this car. Its a whole other configuration. I liked it a lot better with many cars in a pack and working 2 lines,now its just try not to cause a wreck while you look for your dance partner.
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What's to stop a really daring driver from making it a 3 car train?
You would think nascar driver's daring enough to try this but I didn't see any in this race.
Its all about aerodynamic packages now since NASCAR made it into a template car that no matter WHAT manufacturer you race for your car is nearly 100% identical to the car next to you on the track. At least that is what I have been told by some former NASCAR people who still have a little hand and ear to the car owners these days. Its all about tweaking the aero package to make it work for your team mates and them alone.
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Since all cars are now "spec. bodies" then why not use this fact to do away with restrictor plates.
It would be easy to mandate a body that punches a huge hole through the air which would make restrictor plates unnecessary because the aero limits speeds.
At the same time, they could design the body such that "two car only" drafting gives no advantage over multi-car trains or...........make bump drafting a supremely unstable venture.
Before bump drafting, there was "the slingshot" and it was exciting because the draft at that time only worked on the straights because the second car in the draft experienced either lift or stability issues.
They can use the spec. body to do away with restrictor plates and bump drafting with a single body change and the non-restrictor plate engines would offer much more exciting racing.
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From what I know of the design limitations now they can not or will not do away with the restrictor plate. Also with the aero packages that they run bump drafting is dangerous and unstable. They still have the slingshot move that was so prevalent back several years ago with this package but not like it was back then entirely. Also one other reason they will not get rid of the restrictor plate is that with the amount of horse power and torque these car engines are capable of putting on the pavement you might see a car that would be unable to turn at all on the super speedway. Imagine an Indy car on Talladega with the 70 degree banking and the distance in the turns on that track. If the Indy drivers were blacking out at Texas due to the g-forces you would have a bunch of guys getting killed because they couldn't hold it together at Talladega going 230+ mph.
I have driven a car at Talladega and you can not keep a slow moving vehicle on the banks. Also you NEVER lift off the gas pedal on the turns at the super speedways; so just imagine Dale Jr (the non-driving idiot that he is) blacking out in the turn and never waking up because he smoked himself and 4-5 others because he couldn't cope with the g-forces that they would pull.
Just my .02 worth.
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It is very easy to build a body that looks similar to the current cars that won't allow a car with even 1200hp to break 200 no matter how long it a straight it has.
Hell....a dodge viper with 1300hp at the wheels has trouble with 240 so making a nascar body that limits top speeds would be cake.
Since the current cars have zero relation to current stock car configurations (none are rear drive from the factory), why not use a body style from the past like a fairlane fastback.
They sure look a lot nicer and have the required drag to pull down speeds.
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Im all for anything that puts it all back into the hands of the driver and not the amount of $ a team can afford to throw at the sport. IE NY Yankees.
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Hi
I found this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuNIozokLDk&feature=youtu.be
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And you wont with this car. Its a whole other configuration. I liked it a lot better with many cars in a pack and working 2 lines,now its just try not to cause a wreck while you look for your dance partner.
+1
The current configuration is decent, but could still use a few tweaks. I like the sharkfin and redesigned splitter. We may see the end of restrictor plates soon. Next year they will be switching to fuel injection. They will be able to control performance with electronics.
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Once a car has turned further than it's maximum steering angle, it's not skill that straightens it back out.
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China.
Webber.
Started 18th.
Finished 3rd.
No KERS.
Sebastian who?
:rock
(http://images.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/03/12/12Alonso_m_m.jpg)
Excuse me for reacting so late to this.
KERS doesn't get him much faster, it decreases the stability under braking. But i have to say im impressed.
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I will once again state that I do *not* like the new tires. FIA wants increased degradation... fine... but the marbles ("Klag" in Euro-speak) are/(is) downright dangerous.
I would not be surprised, assuming the tire formula is not changed, if the teams banded together and sent a boycott message ala the US GP at Indy way back when over that tire safety issue.
You simply cannot be driving over 'rubber gravel' at 200MPH.
Did you see the slow-motion replay of that massive, 1x1 inch piece of tire that was bouncing along the track at China? I don't want to think about what would happen if a piece like that impacted a driver's visor at those speeds... again with a reference to Massa...
Very, VERY displeased with Pirelli. They know better...
I also love the rate of degradation but hate the massive marble effect this causes. It's unsightly to say the least.
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I also love the rate of degradation but hate the massive marble effect this causes. It's unsightly to say the least.
If anything; it makes passing *harder* not easier...
Since more "action" appears to be the aim of the FIA, you'd figure someone would have raised their hand and coughed after the first race of the season when the track, off-line, looked like a whoopee junkyard of rubber.
There was a race at VIR (Virginia International Raceway) last year... if memory serves, it was an MX-5 Cup race... and the marbles got so bad towards the end of the race that they actually threw a full course caution to sweep some of the corners.
That, to me, is inexcusable.
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Excuse me for reacting so late to this.
KERS doesn't get him much faster, it decreases the stability under braking. But i have to say im impressed.
Depends on the circuit, IMO. DRS and KERS, in concert, at circuits with very long straights (Oz was not a good example) I'd say that there is a profound impact on passing ability.
If nothing else, KERS malfunctions have resulted in 3, 4 or even more positions being lost right off the starting grid.
I'm curious, though - how does KERS affect braking stability? Perhaps I don't fully understand the system.
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Mazz,
When the KERS is working it puts a load on the rear axle and assists in breaking somewhat. When it's not working it's sort of like downshifting and having no engine braking. Atleast thats how it was explained.
It seems the problems Redbull is having are cooling of the KERS,they have a cooling system of their own,since they are located directly under the fuel cell I guess there's good reason to not overheat the system.
I was watching some practice for the Turkish GP,you could see the unloaded front tire picking up the marbles. I like the tire wear in theory but it has to be made more granular and smaller,these big chunks are down right dangerous.
:salute
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F1 needs to reel in the aero traction and increase mechanical traction or boredom will doom the series.
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the Mdonut was supposed to be a reference to you Saurdaukar but I guess the censor didnt like it... :rofl :rofl
I'm still not sold on this DRS,the KERS I understand,hybred cars and all but if your going to give them movable wings why limit where and when a driver can take advantage of that? F1 needs to take the kid gloves off and let the Techno guys have their way,they can limit the teams with fuel and tires so why not let tecnology lead the way.
This stuff is transfered over to domestic cars,antilock brakes,traction control,the list goes on. Until Bernie gives up control I dont think any of this will happen.
:salute
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F1 needs to reel in the aero traction and increase mechanical traction or boredom will doom the series.
You know not what you speak of. People have been proclaiming the doom of F1 since at least the mid 90's (as long as I've followed the sport) when they did away with the V10 1,000+ horsepower, turbocharged monsters (which had very little aero-grip). Guess what, since then not only is the sport much safer then ever, it also has more fans then ever. For every old fogey :old: that whines and is no longer a fan because "It's not like the good old days" there are 2 young kids who discover the sport and become fans.
I laugh at the people who don't like KERS, because they say it's not "pure" racing. Obviously they either weren't around or have forgotten the 80's and 90's when the drivers had a little red button labeled "BOOST" they could push for an extra 100hp. How is that different from a little red button (or paddle as the case may be) labeled KERS that gives them an extra 80hp.
As for the tires, I like the strategic racing that the new Pirellis give us. Don't think that Webber could have pulled off 18th to 3rd without it. The large marbles are a little disconcerting, but I'm sure Pirelli is still working on perfecting the compound. I can't think of a way to have degradation without some kind of marbles (fine marbles seem like they'd be worse then big ones) but I'm not a materials engineer.
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You know not what you speak of. People have been proclaiming the doom of F1 since at least the mid 90's (as long as I've followed the sport) when they did away with the V10 1,000+ horsepower, turbocharged monsters (which had very little aero-grip). Guess what, since then not only is the sport much safer then ever, it also has more fans then ever. For every old fogey :old: that whines and is no longer a fan because "It's not like the good old days" there are 2 young kids who discover the sport and become fans.
I laugh at the people who don't like KERS, because they say it's not "pure" racing. Obviously they either weren't around or have forgotten the 80's and 90's when the drivers had a little red button labeled "BOOST" they could push for an extra 100hp. How is that different from a little red button (or paddle as the case may be) labeled KERS that gives them an extra 80hp.
As for the tires, I like the strategic racing that the new Pirellis give us. Don't think that Webber could have pulled off 18th to 3rd without it. The large marbles are a little disconcerting, but I'm sure Pirelli is still working on perfecting the compound. I can't think of a way to have degradation without some kind of marbles (fine marbles seem like they'd be worse then big ones) but I'm not a materials engineer.
Great post. :aok
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My stating the need for less aero traction and more mechanical grip is the fact that it is rare to see someone pull right up on another and make a "maneuver pass".
Most passes in the last decade are long thrusts done at the end of very long straights and very slow speed bulling where the speeds are low enough that aero issues actually give a glimpse of the kind of racing that used to occur all over the track in higher speeds sections.
Giving up a bit of aero traction and enhancing mechanical traction gives rise to cars that don't lose a significant amount of traction when behind or beside another as well as maintaining a much higher percentage of driver controllability when off-line or off axis from perfect aero stance.
Not sure about saggs but I have been involved in high level racing for a very long time and this allows me to make a remark based on experience and observation of change.
People largely take whatever racing is given to them so there will always be new fans but that does not mean the decisions of Max Mosely and Bernie were correct.
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People largely take whatever racing is given to them so there will always be new fans but that does not mean the decisions of Max Mosely and Bernie were correct.
What's "correct" is a matter of opinion, and just because yours is different from the current formula does not mean the series is "doomed". You may think it's boring, so what, millions of other fans don't = not doomed. Back to the topic of this thread, I find NASCAR to be EXTREMELY boring. Does that mean the series is "doomed", even though it has millions of devoted fans???
FWIW, I think the DRS and new Pirellis will help a lot with what you're talking about, I wished they'd let them keep the driver adjustable front wing as well. That way you can have the downforce in the corners and the straight line speed as well.
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Hi
Kimi's race car paint scheme is published:
http://www.perkyjerky.com/kimi-release
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Qualified 22nd, finished 27th (4 laps down). :cry
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OFFICIAL: Kimi Raikkonen signs with Red Bull Racing for 2012 by PitRoadBox
MAY 29, 2011 at 05:18 AM | COMMENTS (1) | LIKES (0)
After all public rumors, Kimi Raikkonen has finally made his point by coming to NASCAR. He is signed with Red Bull Racing to replace Kasey Kahne for 2012.
Raikkonen, who is currently competing in the WRC, said he wanted to do this because "NASCAR is totally interesting in my opinion because I remember Juan Pablo Montoya's move to NASCAR and I have been following him a lot."
Kasey Kahne expressed his opinion on Raikkonen coming to NASCAR: "Obviously, Kimi is from Finland and since the Finns don't know much about NASCAR, he will introduce NASCAR to the entire country of Finland. He is an amazing World Champion who can do anything he wants to win and become good at."
Brian Vickers and Scott Speed have different opinions, however. "I am very comfortable about Kimi Raikkonen coming to NASCAR because he is such a great advisor to any driver out there", said Vickers. Scott Speed said, "I can't wait for Kimi to come over because he is such a great World Champion and a perfect teammate."
After all, Kimi said that in 2009 when he was going to leave F1, he said that he could race in NASCAR if he wanted to. But this is about to change in 2012.
:aok
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Back to the topic of this thread, I find NASCAR to be EXTREMELY boring. Does that mean the series is "doomed", even though it has millions of devoted fans???
did I miss something? who changed the topic to "I find NASCAR to be EXTREMELY boring" ????
Kimi has done an excellent job in his first 2 Nascar races, and was really good in his 1st one ( The Truck Race a week ago )..... He showed that he was an all out Racer and I can see why Kyle chose to help him
Robby Gordon let Kimi do some testing in Robby's Sprint cup series Dodge at VIR this past week, when they get to Sonoma I think Kimi will qualify for the event and will do a great job for his 1st Sprint cup series Race....
as for the low attendance at Bristol this year, it was only down by 10,000....... meaning their was still a 150,000 people who did show up, and the low attendance is contributed because of the economical situation the past couple of years
was funny reading all the different replys and comments........ replys/opinions/comments are just like elbows........ :rofl
TC