Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: caldera on October 30, 2011, 09:20:14 AM
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62 Nitwits to make sure that nobody stuck in the tower can stop their well oiled steamroller.
There were a few very scary moments and the outcome was far from certain. :uhoh
But solely through brilliant strategy and fearless airmanship, they successfully captured the base (without a moment to spare).
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/nitwithorde.png)
Witnessed many humungous hordes attacking the Nits over the years. Posted this picture to show that you all can horde as good as anyone.
Your honorary certificate for "Supreme Whining and Hypocrisy" will arrive in 6-10 business days.
* 62 nits were listed in the film viewer (including 5 CHogs, 51Ds, Spit16s, N1Ks) within range of the tower. Only the horde knows how many more were on the way.
:rock WTFG DOODZ!!!
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:lol This was the view from my c-hog on take off :D. The leader of the mission did call for support off the cv as well. I had to laugh.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6226/6293269393_8a61a3991a_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/37180180@N08/6293269393/)
ahss2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/37180180@N08/6293269393/) by 06CTS-V (http://www.flickr.com/people/37180180@N08/), on Flickr
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:rofl :rofl :aok
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If they were hording Bish I see no problem here ;)
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All I saw here is jet food
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All I saw here is jet food
All I saw here was food for a P-47 to strafe and zoom climb dive and get the jet....
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Jayro? :bolt:
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Jayro? :bolt:
:rofl :aok
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Everytime the horde master comes on, I can't help but think "Oh boy, here we go..." :devil
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62 Nitwits
Yeah but how many dozen augered dive bombing or died in field ack. Surely Nits can't take a field with only 62 highly unskilled elite pilits.
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you didnt capture the base :neener:
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my first thought was "WTF, all the V-s and alchemist came knit??" unfortunately, no. Holy cow, its all very sad. Jayro, hmm? Gonna check the rook side, they must have free 262s... you rock dudes \m/
"promoting air combar maneuvering in a horde-monkey world"
Btw i seen a jokers+vtardz+turdemists+whatever came horde when all the jokers were vulching in perked hogs. 5 of them didnt make it back :banana:
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and this is what is wrong with the game today. After the first 30 hit the base what do the other 30 do? Fly around in circles I guess. Maybe they should just cancel their subscription and fly off line. With todays economy they could save their money and STILL have the same amount of fun :rolleyes:
As the attacking force only half....even if they suck get to do anything, and as the defenders come in about all they are going to do is blast through picking as many as they can. You certainly are not going to turn and burn in that. No fighting, just picking.
The games turned into a monopoly board where it's ok to use as many clubs as you have to take over the place. Sad really, this game use to be the premier combat sim on line. Now its turned into just another horde magnet.
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my first thought was "WTF, all the V-s and alchemist came knit??" unfortunately, no. Holy cow, its all very sad. Jayro, hmm? Gonna check the rook side, they must have free 262s... you rock dudes \m/
"promoting air combar maneuvering in a horde-monkey world"
you're aware of the saying..."when in rome..." right?
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when they run those horde missions the rest of the country suffers with little defenders left, if you cant take a feild with 10 guys then you have problems, but this isnt about skill anymore its just a numbers game plain and simple. Just throw overwhelming numbers at them.
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when they run those horde missions the rest of the country suffers with little defenders left, if you cant take a feild with 10 guys then you have problems, but this isnt about skill anymore its just a numbers game plain and simple. Just throw overwhelming numbers at them.
WELL SAID!!!!! :aok :aok :aok
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{Dorothy Wizard of Oz voice
OH MY GOODNESS!!
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Ive got the cure for this problem, a couple of modifications and I think ill be ready to post it in the wishlist :D
(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/mbailey166066/flystrip.jpg)
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We finally took a base?
Awesome!
I'm glad you got a picture of it. It may be years before we see that happen again!
Roll Knights!!
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when they run those horde missions the rest of the country suffers with little defenders left, if you cant take a feild with 10 guys then you have problems, but this isnt about skill anymore its just a numbers game plain and simple. Just throw overwhelming numbers at them.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing that has changed about this in the last ...lemme think... 6 years. This picture could easily had been taken when I joined AH. Same stuff back then. :old:
Oh, with one particular difference: The ganging of the smaller country was actually worse back then, because of the different requirements for winning a war.
But that's the kind of details that sometimes tend to get lost in the golden sun of nostalgia ;)
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There is nothing, absolutely nothing that has changed about this in the last ...lemme think... 6 years. This picture could easily had been taken when I joined AH. Same stuff back then. :old:
Oh, with one particular difference: The ganging of the smaller country was actually worse back then, because of the different requirements for winning a war.
But that's the kind of details that sometimes tend to get lost in the golden sun of nostalgia ;)
I disagree Lusche. Sure it happened back in the old days, but it wasn't the norm as it is now.
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I disagree Lusche. Sure it happened back in the old days, but it wasn't the norm as it is now.
agreed, it's the norm of the skilless players to flock together seeking protection in numbers.
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I disagree Lusche. Sure it happened back in the old days, but it wasn't the norm as it is now.
Local numerical superiority has probably always been the #1 cause for capturing a base, but surely it has been all the time since I'm playing AH. You just could "sneak" bases easier back then, as one guy could hope to gun down a remote town quick enough for a quick grab.
It was the norm back in tour 70 as well as it was now. Early in 2006 I had to switch countries from Rook to Knights because of the big "Alliance" thing happening in Rookland - multi-wing squadron operations literally flattening all enemy bases on a particular front, then swarming the area with hordes, completely killing all combat. The "vtards controversy" on the BBS earlier this year was just a pale reminiscence of that stuff. When I joined AH, I was frequently told that "this game has been ruined", "it's all about numbers and hordes now", and "all the fight is gone".
Interestingly years later I found many a guy once camping spawns in Tigers with me side by side or leading raids to shut down fields complaining about the degradation of gameplay. And refusing to take into consideration that maybe his stakes had grown higher over time. ;)
Also, today the bigger countries do have to face each other at one point if they want to go for the win. Back in the days, they did not have to do that, and consequently often didn't. Before the requirements for winning the war had been changed, a county just needed to have the biggest share of the sole "losing" country, so both bigger ones piled on the smaller one with much greater persistence than today. It's not anywhere near that extreme today.
agreed, it's the norm of the skilless players to flock together seeking protection in numbers.
Again, that's nothing new. ;)
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I really dont like these "strike missions", but although I never take part I have to take some of the blame for them. why? because I know what I'm doing and I hardly ever run country missions myself.
most players like to fly together and organised to one degree or another. if the only choice you have to do this is in a strike horde, then thats what you'll do. if there were more country missions set up far fewer people would horde, but knits have never posted many missions since Ive been playing.
Its unreasonable to complain about hordes if you're not going to give the less experienced players an alternative, and that goes for the hording and the horded side. Its harder to get a horde together if you're already fighting 6 different battles along your front, whether defending or attacking.
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Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are: (Horde implied)
First of all, I flew in about 3 or 4 of "Jayro's Missions" yesterday. None of them that I flew in was initiated by anything other than an announcement on country channel. For example, "We will be meeting..... yada ....yada.." About the 3rd mission that I flew on, maybe it ended up resulting in that pictured above. Before we launched, I believe it was Jayro who commented on the numbers in the force. He had made no mission through the planner listing 64 positions. Nor did he spam the country channel for 10 minutes for folks to join the mission. Nope, all he did was pick a logical target and say hey fellas meet me with whatever you think will help capture a base (my words not his- all he really said was, "meet me"). Well done Knights :cheers:
No one should think this screenshot is anything other than normal for an organized base capture / insert your country HERE. As for calling for support from the CV, this is where I take your amusement and say the joke is actually bringing a large force only to be repelled by a handfull (sound familiar / insert your country HERE). Why does no one take a picture of the troop carriers that had to dodge 262s hunting for them, praying that when/ if they make it there the town will be ready.
Ready means: White flagged (long enough for all 10 troops to clear the maproom), deacked (not a single auto ack up in town or in some cases even on airfield within 1k ft. -- again long enough for all 10 troops to clear the maproom -- good luck having your magic timer set properly), town cleared of enemy vehicles and or aircraft -- once again long enough for all 10 troops to clear the maproom -- because if one slips and gets wounded = oh well, and lastly, it means that no smartazz is sitting in the shore battery :uhoh shelling his own maproom!
I love / hate the horde also.... absolutely love to catch one developing, get in an early war ride and collect scalps and land, and oh yes.... killing a sneaky goon or several m3s in the process (priceless). I hate trying to defend arriving too late and being vulched, rocketed and even bombed in the spawn hangar, also hate arriving late in a horde and not having the opportunity to vulch, rocket or bomb enemies in the spawn hangar.
Lusche (I prefer Snailman as a handle :) ), your memory is a little off, however I do concur that the "superior numbers" game has not changed. What has changed is the complexity of the town and ack, requiring larger numbers for captures of heavily defended fields. I have been around long enough to know that pre new towns, 4 or 5 guys with their act together, could effectively take just about any base they attacked.
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Yeah but how many dozen augered dive bombing or died in field ack. Surely Nits can't take a field with only 62 highly unskilled elite pilits.
Better than what the rooks or bish can boast.
Knits: occational large hordes
Bish: NOE carrier hordes with 30+ planes in the mission that can cap the base in under 2 minutes, as well as large hordes of the "we can't beat you in an equal fight, so we'll just bury you in bodies" variatey.
Rooks: multiple hordes of equal size attcking a single country
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Well, Holmes,
look it from my eyepoint. This game is about fun, i think we all can agree with it. Now tell me what is fun taking part in a 62 vs 0-5. None of them will have a real "fight", only a pick as Fugi said, but only if they are lucky.
Is it fun to fly against a formation like this? For me, sure it is, just have to choose the proper aircraft and get a couple wingmen. Tempests, and especially 262s shine against hordes, about a month ago me and Irish got like 15 in 10 minutes, 2 vs like 40. A wing of 4-5 262s could totally ruin that basetake (unless the knits could roll GVs, of course). Other thing that would be crazy avoid all the 62 trying to ho ramm you haha
What i wanted to say... why is it good for them? Woo they got like 5 kills all together and toke a base. Yet they cheat themselves, thinking about how good they are... Put any of those into an 1v1, if they cant ho you down or run away, they are all dead in 2 turns. Can you remember that fight about 6 months ago, me and you on the deck, got 17 bishs together and could rtb... why? Couse we actually like to fight and keep practicing ourselves.
Btw that was a real awsome winging. And im just a little newbie.
This is the difference.
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Lusche (I prefer Snailman as a handle :) ), your memory is a little off, however I do concur that the "superior numbers" game has not changed. What has changed is the complexity of the town and ack, requiring larger numbers for captures of heavily defended fields. I have been around long enough to know that pre new towns, 4 or 5 guys with their act together, could effectively take just about any base they attacked.
Actually I You just could "sneak" bases easier back then, as one guy could hope to gun down a remote town quick enough for a quick grab.
;)
And yes, that is the thing that has changed, the bases need much more effort to get captured today. One could either complain about about having to rely on bigger numbers (which is a natural result of that increased requirement), or one could be glad that the silent sneaks are mostly a thing of the past.
Bases had rarely been captured by a "clean and balanced fight" up to the end. Even if a battle started that way, at one point it ended up with one side dominating, capping the base - and the losing side taking their screenshots to the forum :D
And another thing comes to my mind... I found the frequency of NOE raids being much reduced since the dar changes too. Another thing that we can't really file under "more fights back in the day".
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I disagree Lusche. Sure it happened back in the old days, but it wasn't the norm as it is now.
The big change between now and "The Olde Days" that I have noticed is the attacking "hoard" used to leave the hangers up and vultch.
The norm now seems to be for the first ten planes in to auger on all of the hangers and ack and then take out the town.
Granted, the town is a bit harder to take down now but it used to be, hit the town, cap the field, get the troops in.
The only defense now is stay low and hope you find all, and I mean all multiple, goons because you can only take off once.
NOE doesn't matter. If anything it may hurt because you are low where the defenders can get you.
Dar range may not matter. I suppose if you saw the measles attacking sooner more may up but it has been my experience that the "Alert" call on country channel is rarely responded to right away.
My main question is, is it fun? You don't do anything but fly there and land.
Airline pilot anyone?
wrongway
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I stand corrected Snailman,
We are in agreement. Except in the past 4 or 5 guys didn't need to use NOE tactics. There was enough action elsewhere and less ack to deal with. Wrongway beat me to the part about leaving hangars up (result of less ack). Back then, the biggest deterent to a base attack, was LTAR's. They were as welcome in a battle as the vDevils are now.
Possibly to add to the fiddling with dar altitude, we also have maps that allow their shore batteries to canibalize it's maproom (something that I find infinitely more annoying than hordes).
(Edit: Gave Fugi credit for Wrongway's comment - fixed)
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well the fun comes from flying with people, with a common goal, which applies to almost all of us. if you dont have a bunch of squaddies on channel to shoot the wind with and/or someone you wing with and theres no missions posted on country, the strike horde is the next best thing. and if you dont live in the DA or own a copy of Shaw then its probably at least as productive as flying alone somewhere.
borrowing from chris rock: I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying I understand.
my point was if you dont like hordes then you can do something about it. if its your country hording start posting 15 player missions to give them alternatives. if its the other country start posting 15 player missions which will either break up the horde to defend or let you take alot more bases than the horde can if they dont.
Can you remember that fight about 6 months ago, me and you on the deck, got 17 bishs together and could rtb... why? Couse we actually like to fight and keep practicing ourselves.
Btw that was a real awsome winging. And im just a little newbie.
I do remember, and its always great when you run into someone you havent flown with before and it clicks :aok
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well the fun comes from flying with people, with a common goal, which applies to almost all of us. if you dont have a bunch of squaddies on channel to shoot the wind with and/or someone you wing with and theres no missions posted on country, the strike horde is the next best thing. and if you dont live in the DA or own a copy of Shaw then its probably at least as productive as flying alone somewhere.
borrowing from chris rock: I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying I understand.
my point was if you dont like hordes then you can do something about it. if its your country hording start posting 15 player missions to give them alternatives. if its the other country start posting 15 player missions which will either break up the horde to defend or let you take alot more bases than the horde can if they dont.
I do remember, and its always great when you run into someone you havent flown with before and it clicks :aok
^^^^
This :aok
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What's sad about that picture on the original post is that none of the potential defenders thought about taking off from the next nearest base.
It seems players are unwilling to fly more than a sector or tank further than a remote spawn which places you right next to the enemy base.
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What's sad about that picture on the original post is that none of the potential defenders thought about taking off from the next nearest base.
It seems players are unwilling to fly more than a sector or tank further than a remote spawn which places you right next to the enemy base.
I'm sure many thought to try that, the problem is most just look at it and say what's the point.
Either you get lucky and roll with 5 other players and only face 10th to 1 odds when you get there, or you get there in time for them to have captured the base and have moved on to the next great "mission".
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It's the defenders' fault. :rolleyes:
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I've been a part of "Jayro's heavy fighter strikes" before, but never one that large, LOL! I don't mind coming in high with a few friends (10 to 12 at the max should be all you'd need to supress a field and take the base) and capping a field, but I despise it when they drop the hangers (other than the VH, once a handful of "egg targets" get out :devil ).
That being said, the Bish ran a heavy fighter strike Saturday to try and take one of the knit fields, and there must have been close to 30 or more of them, all heavy D Ponies and 47N's, just that I saw... and I got there late in my Tempest. I wouldn't have been surprised at all if the numbers in that raid were close to the ones in the OP.... I finally rtb'd to my original departure point with zero cannon and 10 scalps.
btw, the Knits kept that field... the Bish horde failed. Mainly because there was no GV spawn and all the goons were slaughtered. It helped that those rocket surgeons lifted their strike mission from a field that was being overflown by a high friendly, who called out the bish mission on Country.... and for once enough Knights listened that by the time the horde got there at least a dozen defenders were already at decent alt, and more of us inbound from the next closest field with tons of alt.
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I find it funny that one side is always "smarter" than another side and that which ever side that a person is on it is always the smartest side.
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and for once enough Knights listened
OMG! I hope somebody called guinness book or world records! :rofl
Such an event is rare, and noteworthy! :lol
Wait..... Why am I laughing? :headscratch: Dang, I just made myself sad again.... :uhoh
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I'm sure many thought to try that, the problem is most just look at it and say what's the point.
Either you get lucky and roll with 5 other players and only face 10th to 1 odds when you get there, or you get there in time for them to have captured the base and have moved on to the next great "mission".
I like flying against the horde. The point is getting a kill for me, not stopping the base capture or killing them all, (which I couldn't do). As I vector into hordes like this I always tell myself, "Get in, get 1 kill, get out, repeat if possible". Just think, if you've been patient enough to take off from a nearby base and ya got a bit of e as you dive in, look at all the choices ya get.
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Funny thing is I see one of my VF-17 squadron buddies in that horde...Noah17. Highly unusual for him to take part in anything other than defending against the horde.
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There is nothing, absolutely nothing that has changed about this in the last ...lemme think... 6 years. This picture could easily had been taken when I joined AH. Same stuff back then. :old:
Oh, with one particular difference: The ganging of the smaller country was actually worse back then, because of the different requirements for winning a war.
But that's the kind of details that sometimes tend to get lost in the golden sun of nostalgia ;)
M.A.W.
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One thing did change over the years. The Me 262 was added.
Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are: (Horde implied)
First of all, I flew in about 3 or 4 of "Jayro's Missions" yesterday. None of them that I flew in was initiated by anything other than an announcement on country channel. For example, "We will be meeting..... yada ....yada.." About the 3rd mission that I flew on, maybe it ended up resulting in that pictured above. Before we launched, I believe it was Jayro who commented on the numbers in the force. He had made no mission through the planner listing 64 positions. Nor did he spam the country channel for 10 minutes for folks to join the mission. Nope, all he did was pick a logical target and say hey fellas meet me with whatever you think will help capture a base (my words not his- all he really said was, "meet me"). Well done Knights :cheers:
No one should think this screenshot is anything other than normal for an organized base capture / insert your country HERE. As for calling for support from the CV, this is where I take your amusement and say the joke is actually bringing a large force only to be repelled by a handfull (sound familiar / insert your country HERE). Why does no one take a picture of the troop carriers that had to dodge 262s hunting for them, praying that when/ if they make it there the town will be ready.
Ready means: White flagged (long enough for all 10 troops to clear the maproom), deacked (not a single auto ack up in town or in some cases even on airfield within 1k ft. -- again long enough for all 10 troops to clear the maproom -- good luck having your magic timer set properly), town cleared of enemy vehicles and or aircraft -- once again long enough for all 10 troops to clear the maproom -- because if one slips and gets wounded = oh well, and lastly, it means that no smartazz is sitting in the shore battery :uhoh shelling his own maproom!
I love / hate the horde also.... absolutely love to catch one developing, get in an early war ride and collect scalps and land, and oh yes.... killing a sneaky goon or several m3s in the process (priceless). I hate trying to defend arriving too late and being vulched, rocketed and even bombed in the spawn hangar, also hate arriving late in a horde and not having the opportunity to vulch, rocket or bomb enemies in the spawn hangar.
Lusche (I prefer Snailman as a handle :) ), your memory is a little off, however I do concur that the "superior numbers" game has not changed. What has changed is the complexity of the town and ack, requiring larger numbers for captures of heavily defended fields. I have been around long enough to know that pre new towns, 4 or 5 guys with their act together, could effectively take just about any base they attacked.
None of that changes the fact that hordes (IE those not opposed by at least arguably equal opposition) dilute the substance of air combat. I admit I'm not so much answering this post (skimmed it) but anyone who rationalizes a 50 player horde to make the pixels of a virtual base on a virtual map, change color.
Are we playing this game to change virtual real estate's colors or to get our stick & rudder & trigger fix? The none-of-the-above answer (play to play with friends) is a cop-out, as much as I relate to it. The game is air combat. Removing peril from combat makes any combat flight sim into... a tourism game not much different from MS Flight Simulator.
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I find it funny that one side is always "smarter" than another side and that which ever side that a person is on it is always the smartest side.
Amazing isn't it?
Fred
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One thing did change over the years. The Me 262 was added
The 262 in AH is older than the 6 years I mentioned :P
but what does M.A.W mean? :headscratch:
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I feel old.
MAW was maybe the first mega steamroller squad. It was around the time the 262 was added. I only remember flying one (or a D9) into one of their clouds of Chogs.
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Can't count the times I've posted base alerts............and like 2 or 3 guys showed up.
Then later people whine about hordes taking bases.
You can see them coming for miles!!
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Can't count the times I've posted base alerts............and like 2 or 3 guys showed up.
Then later people whine about hordes taking bases.
You can see them coming for miles!!
^^^ Winner :aok
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Can't count the times I've posted base alerts............and like 2 or 3 guys showed up.
Then later people whine about hordes taking bases.
You can see them coming for miles!!
Yes and unless you and 20 or 30 of your friends launch as soon as they are spotted you will be out numbered any where from 3 to 1, to 10 to 1.
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Yes and unless you and 20 or 30 of your friends launch as soon as they are spotted you will be out numbered any where from 3 to 1, to 10 to 1.
Yes, and it only takes that 1 magic bullet to stop the troops.
Of course you can't be worried about dieing repeatedly and the effect it will have on your score. :cry
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Can't count the times I've posted base alerts............and like 2 or 3 guys showed up.
Then later people whine about hordes taking bases.
You can see them coming for miles!!
gonna have to find the vid. anyway here is a funny story:
I was bombing a cv with a dauntless for some free perks and fun. As I was diving in, I see about 20 hellcats launch off the cv.
I was too late to catch them on the deck and just went ahead and dropped my bombs. I made a pass on them and got a few hits.
I started typing on channel 20+ hellcats ib for (insert base #), need help now. Not one soul upped from that base and I had repeated the message at least 7 times.
:bhead
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Yes, and it only takes that 1 magic bullet to stop the troops.
Of course you can't be worried about dieing repeatedly and the effect it will have on your score. :cry
You mean shooting at goose stepping AIs is supposed to make up the utter absence of combat?
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You mean shooting at goose stepping AIs is supposed to make up the utter absence of combat?
No, what I mean is that stopping (or at least slowing down) a hoard is easier than it appears.
I've been on the ground trying to up during a horde attack, as I'm sure many of us have been. Eventually someone is gonna get airborne and beeline straight to town.
Bang Bang, troops dead, fights on.
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Who cares about stopping pixel color changes. You can get that for cheaper playing tetris. If you think 20 in formation versus 5 freshly upped and uncoordinated's a fight, I invite you to the best fight in the game - you with 30sec to roll off a base in the DA with all of AOM already in the air and prepped to gang you. We won't try and actually fight though, we'll just do whatever it takes to make some pixels appear at the bottom of the screen in that black radio box. Cause that's what matters when all's said and done, right?
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Who cares about stopping pixel color changes. You can get that for cheaper playing tetris. If you think 20 in formation versus 5 freshly upped and uncoordinated's a fight, I invite you to the best fight in the game - you with 30sec to roll off a base in the DA with all of AOM already in the air and prepped to gang you. We won't try and actually fight though, we'll just do whatever it takes to make some pixels appear at the bottom of the screen in that black radio box. Cause that's what matters when all's said and done, right?
That was either magnificently brilliant, or the dumbest, most incoherent thing you've ever said. :headscratch:
All I am saying is that so many people whine and complain about "teh horde", yet they will do nothing when confronted by it. Unless, of course, they have an altitude advantage and a few buddies at their back.
Everybody wants "combat". Well, what is a horde attacking your base if not an invitation to "combat".
To me this game gets stale on occasion. This is why I have no problem dieing repeatedly as I attempt to make it past the vulchers. It's just another challenge to keep things moving.
Oh, I'm not a total glutton for punishment either. If nobody else shows to help after I've bit the dust 6-12 times, I'm outta there.
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62 Nitwits to make sure that nobody stuck in the tower can stop their well oiled steamroller.
There were a few very scary moments and the outcome was far from certain. :uhoh
But solely through brilliant strategy and fearless airmanship, they successfully captured the base (without a moment to spare).
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/nitwithorde.png)
Witnessed many humungous hordes attacking the Nits over the years. Posted this picture to show that you all can horde as good as anyone.
Your honorary certificate for "Supreme Whining and Hypocrisy" will arrive in 6-10 business days.
* 62 nits were listed in the film viewer (including 5 CHogs, 51Ds, Spit16s, N1Ks) within range of the tower. Only the horde knows how many more were on the way.
:rock WTFG DOODZ!!!
(http://www.chaosagent.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/letthebuthurtflowthroughyou.jpg)
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That was either magnificently brilliant, or the dumbest, most incoherent thing you've ever said. :headscratch:
All I am saying is that so many people whine and complain about "teh horde", yet they will do nothing when confronted by it. Unless, of course, they have an altitude advantage and a few buddies at their back.
Everybody wants "combat". Well, what is a horde attacking your base if not an invitation to "combat".
To me this game gets stale on occasion. This is why I have no problem dieing repeatedly as I attempt to make it past the vulchers. It's just another challenge to keep things moving.
Oh, I'm not a total glutton for punishment either. If nobody else shows to help after I've bit the dust 6-12 times, I'm outta there.
It's the stubborn sacrificial lambs like yourself that help perpetuate the horde way more than nobody showing up at all. Nothing a horde likes better than easy no-risk kills from people trying in futility to save the base against overwhelming numbers. After the steamrollers get their precious base, then they land their vulches to get their WTFG DOODZ!!! from their adoring sycophants. Your upping over and over gives them reason to keep on hording. If nobody got any kills, those missions wouldn't go on for long.
The newer or less confident flyers feel a sense of accomplishment and i can understand their participation. The regular players use those noobs as bait, so they can circle the field in their late war monsters and get easy kills to boost their scores and especially their egos. There is no "invitation to combat". It is an invitation to get swarmed and bludgeoned. Fun stuff.
The best thing to do against such a giant glob of tools is to group up at another base and arrive in a dozen or more BnZ rides. Even if you don't get there in time, you will wreak havoc on the lemmings and make them think twice about doing that again. The problem with this idea though, is that none of the "generals" who like to steamroll on offense, seem to have any interest at all in defense.
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It's the stubborn sacrificial lambs like yourself that help perpetuate the horde way more than nobody showing up at all. Nothing a horde likes better than easy no-risk kills from people trying in futility to save the base against overwhelming numbers. After the steamrollers get their precious base, then they land their vulches to get their WTFG DOODZ!!! from their adoring sycophants. Your upping over and over gives them reason to keep on hording. If nobody got any kills, those missions wouldn't go on for long.
The newer or less confident flyers feel a sense of accomplishment and i can understand their participation. The regular players use those noobs as bait, so they can circle the field in their late war monsters and get easy kills to boost their scores and especially their egos. There is no "invitation to combat". It is an invitation to get swarmed and bludgeoned. Fun stuff.
The best thing to do against such a giant glob of tools is to group up at another base and arrive in a dozen or more BnZ rides. Even if you don't get there in time, you will wreak havoc on the lemmings and make them think twice about doing that again. The problem with this idea though, is that none of the "generals" who like to steamroll on offense, seem to have any interest at all in defense.
I can see your first point and will take it into consideration.
And as far as your third paragraph goes... at least you are attempting to do something. What gets on my nerves is the folks that will bemoan the hoard, yet will not take the time to take a break from the furball or spawn camp to stop it.
If you're gonna stomp your feet and cry that their are "too many bad guys in one area", then either do something about it or hush up.
Said with utmost respect of course. :aok
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I can see your first point and will take it into consideration.
And as far as your third paragraph goes... at least you are attempting to do something. What gets on my nerves is the folks that will bemoan the hoard, yet will not take the time to take a break from the furball or spawn camp to stop it.
If you're gonna stomp your feet and cry that their are "too many bad guys in one area", then either do something about it or hush up.
Said with utmost respect of course. :aok
Don't shoot the messenger. I did neither stomp, nor cry. I merely exposed hypocrisy (and IMO lame gameplay of the participants) of a certain country that whines about being horded - just like the other two countries who whine about being horded. ;) I don't have a squad or even a wingman to attempt to take on something like that. For me, it's time to get in the field gun at that point. But in this case, they were all dead. You have to happen to be looking for something to do in the first few minutes that the locusts come swarming in.
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Don't shoot the messenger. I did neither stomp, nor cry. I merely exposed hypocrisy (and IMO lame gameplay of the participants) of a certain country that whines about being horded - just like the other two countries who whine about being horded. ;) I don't have a squad or even a wingman to attempt to take on something like that. For me, it's time to get in the field gun at that point. But in this case, they were all dead. You have to happen to be looking for something to do in the first few minutes that the locusts come swarming in.
Oh, I wasn't directing that at you caldera.
Like I said, at least your the type to grab a gun or a plane and go on the attack.
My comments were directed to the players that will whine about the horde but can't be bothered to defend against it.
Of course I bow graciously when I type my peasant like comments so I don't draw the wrath of teh uber peelot elite when I say such things.
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It's the stubborn sacrificial lambs like yourself that help perpetuate the horde way more than nobody showing up at all. Nothing a horde likes better than easy no-risk kills from people trying in futility to save the base against overwhelming numbers. After the steamrollers get their precious base, then they land their vulches to get their WTFG DOODZ!!! from their adoring sycophants. Your upping over and over gives them reason to keep on hording. If nobody got any kills, those missions wouldn't go on for long.
The newer or less confident flyers feel a sense of accomplishment and i can understand their participation. The regular players use those noobs as bait, so they can circle the field in their late war monsters and get easy kills to boost their scores and especially their egos. There is no "invitation to combat". It is an invitation to get swarmed and bludgeoned. Fun stuff.
The best thing to do against such a giant glob of tools is to group up at another base and arrive in a dozen or more BnZ rides. Even if you don't get there in time, you will wreak havoc on the lemmings and make them think twice about doing that again. The problem with this idea though, is that none of the "generals" who like to steamroll on offense, seem to have any interest at all in defense.
This is the line that says it all for me.
Melvin, what is your in game name? When do you fly?
I know that when I fly, usually Saturdays about 3-11 PM eastern There are 3 hordes flying, and none of them attack the others. Do I defends against the hordes? Ya, for a little while, but as there is NO COMBAT it gets boring very quick. How long can you turn and burn as soon as you get wheels up before it becomes a waste of time? How long before BnZ in vulchers does it become a waste of time?
Sure I could rack up a bunch of kills, big deal! I have thousands of kills. I'm looking for a fight.
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Easiest way to solve a horde is to launch a horde on their base of operations. Usually turns into a giant furball until one party pooper/smart guy decides enough is enough and launch an even BIGGER horde. Rinse and repeat.
I don't mind the furballs, I just hate base taking (unless it has been the same map for 3 days+, then horde all you want).
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Sure I could rack up a bunch of kills, big deal! I have thousands of kills. I'm looking for a fight.
Then why do you look for it in an arena that is designed around side-based Free For All style gameplay?
Wiley.
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Then why do you look for it in an arena that is designed around side-based Free For All style gameplay?
Wiley.
Because that is where is use to be found. The game is design around combat. It's the players who have corrupted that and made it be more about avoidence of combat and quick base capture to win Tue war.
We use to fight for bases in this game. Battles could last for hours as one team was determined to capture the base as much as the other team was determined to keep the base.
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Because that is where is use to be found. The game is design around combat. It's the players who have corrupted that and made it be more about avoidence of combat and quick base capture to win Tue war.
Well, then I think we can be glad about the facts
- we have much more combat per base capture, more kills/deaths
- much less captured bases per individual player as well as played hours
- so many bases less sneaked by just 1-3 players
than ever before in AH :rock
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A horde is a horde, every country does it, whine less and eat more cheese.
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When I see this crap, I just go find another battle. I'm not going to add 1 kill to their vulches. Best way to stop this silly stuff is to "Take your ball & go Home". :neener:
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Because that is where is use to be found. The game is design around combat. It's the players who have corrupted that and made it be more about avoidence of combat and quick base capture to win Tue war.
If one were asked to define 'What is the objective of the game?' when logging into AH and looking at that clipboard for the first time, what would the correct answer be, regardless of what the individual player's personal goal is? In much the same way that the object of checkers is to remove all your opponent's pieces from the board, the object of Aces High is to win the war by owning 90% of your side's bases, and 20% of the opposing sides' bases.
This is how a good portion of the playerbase sees it, and they've been conditioned to do so by many other online games.
We use to fight for bases in this game. Battles could last for hours as one team was determined to capture the base as much as the other team was determined to keep the base.
Was the object of the game any different back then? No, it was some of the players that made it so. The playerbase has moved from mostly 'WWII online enthusiasts who happen to enjoy this WWII online game' to mostly 'gamers who happen to enjoy this WWII online game'.
The net result is still the same. The playerbase does what it does now. To be honest, I really have trouble believing things were THAT much different overall years ago, as it's easy to pull up forum posts from 2000-2002 saying the same thing you're saying here, referencing Air Warrior or WBs. Maybe things were awesome for the first 3 weeks of Air Warrior or something, but I still have trouble believing it was ever that much different.
Wiley.
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Well, then I think we can be glad about the facts
- we have much more combat per base capture, more kills/deaths
- much less captured bases per individual player as well as played hours
- so many bases less sneaked by just 1-3 players
than ever before in AH :rock
Quit sullying Fugitive's nostalgia with facts.
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Quit sullying Fugitive's nostalgia with facts.
You can twist the stats any way you want. I thought we were talking about combat in a combat based game.
Just because there are more kills per capture doesn't mean there was more combat. My guess is there was more vulching. How does 3 players sneaking a base make.more combat? the same goes.for less captures per person. Could just mean more vulches per capture, again NOT combat.
Stats are fun, but not always reliable.
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Because that is where is use to be found. The game is design around combat. It's the players who have corrupted that and made it be more about avoidence of combat and quick base capture to win Tue war.
We use to fight for bases in this game. Battles could last for hours as one team was determined to capture the base as much as the other team was determined to keep the base.
To be blunt, who is "we" and why dont you hook up with them and just fight all day in the DA then?
You've made it readily apparent what your opinion is on how everyone should be playing, now it's just whining.
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Stats are fun, but not always reliable.
Certainly more reliable than your hazy rose colored glasses recollection of the "good ol' days". :aok
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Just because there are more kills per capture doesn't mean there was more combat. My guess is there was more vulching.
We are not talking about a gradual change over time. The stats suddenly and massively changed with the changed settings:
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3215/scpk.jpg)
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5864/cppm.jpg)
(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/4715/pmhc.jpg)
Players do not change their behaviour, intentions and goals that suddenly from one tour to the next. And surely it's not that the whole arena suddenly decides to do nothing but vulch from one month to the other.
Again: It's simply the settings which changed. Alll other things followed.
For almost all the time of AH, base capturing was a piece of cake compared to today's situation: Small towns, less ack, higher radar altitude. 1-3 players could and did sneak a lot of bases. NOE hordes had a far easier time to overwhelm the defense, and they used it. (When I joined 2005, I spend whole evenings with nothing than defending vs constant NOEs on all fronts).
In 2003, during the golden years of AH1(!) we had tours with more than 9000(!) base captures (that's in the range of one base capture message per minute at peak times). If they had all been so bravely fought over for hours, i wonder why the k/h, kills per player, played hours per pilot weren't higher. Fact is: There wasn't more combat per player... just more captures. Many more.
Now that the EZ mode base capture requirements have been diluted, the grumpy old men should rejoice. But no. Of course there is something else. Instead of welcoming the fact that it's not that easy to sneak bases with a few players it's now "the horde"! As if the horde never happened before.... :lol
BTW, the last two days I went through a lot of old threads from 2001-2004 to help me to explain some stats... what I found was the very same stuff: "Nobody fights anymore" "game went downhill" "nothing but hordes" "gamers have taken over" on every second page. It's just as if todays people just copy & paste these old complaints :D
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To be blunt, who is "we" and why dont you hook up with them and just fight all day in the DA then?
You've made it readily apparent what your opinion is on how everyone should be playing, now it's just whining.
This is the stupid non-argument that kills this discussion every time. It's the same attitude that allows players to derail the trend of quality air combat in the arena by rolling 50 player hordes "because it's their 15$" "because we wanna hang out with friends" "because we can" "because no one should tell us how we should play".
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Thank you for the stats Lusche. Interesting and insightful as usual Sir. :aok
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The 262 in AH is older than the 6 years I mentioned :P
but what does M.A.W mean? :headscratch:
Wow !!!! The Snailman stumped :headscratch:
Marine Air Wing lead by 40DogMAW was a Knight squad ... I was CO of the VMF-214 3rd MAW "Black Sheep" squadron back then. The difference then was when we showed up so did the Bishop's Arabian Knights ... and the fight usually raged on for hours ... and hours.
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I can tell you the gameplay has changed over the last several years that I have been in the MA's, which started right around the time that the H2H was closed up.
When I started you could find a nice low level furball going on for hours. By this I mean that fight raged between 2 bases that were neighboring each other. You did not have to fly over from a 3 base to ensure high alt to pick from. There would be maybe 10 players average from either side of the furball and it was non-stop TnB. This has left and this seemed to have disappeared and been replaced with the hordes. Yes hordes have always existed and yes before the current capture settings it was the sneak that seemed to kill them, but those nice furballs did exist in AH and were something that was fairly easy to find.
Granted the horde and base sneaks were not the only thing that changed that, the high alt pickers that fly over every single one that ever has a chance to get started also added to the death of what used to be the funnest part of AH (IMHO).
Either way 62 people to take a base is a little extreme and I personally will never up anything but a gun against something like that. I have no urge to fly BnZ into any fight except attacking bombers and I suck at that.
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Wow !!!! The Snailman stumped :headscratch:
That could have been a bit too long ago for me... apart from that, player names and squads that kind of "social" stuff I was never good at, never having been member of any squad myself.
Heck, I even had a player named "snailboy" winging up with me for a tour or so... and I have completely forgotten who that really was :o
But the AK's I do remember... it was about the first squad I noticed by having to listen to all the complaints on range & country about that "lame horders" :lol
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This is the stupid non-argument that kills this discussion every time. It's the same attitude that allows players to derail the trend of quality air combat in the arena by rolling 50 player hordes "because it's their 15$" "because we wanna hang out with friends" "because we can" "because no one should tell us how we should play".
'trend of quality air combat'? Really? Horde whines go back for time immemorial. The people who want quality air combat seek it out, those who don't, don't.
You can't make people want 'quality fights' (whatever that means to you) if they aren't already looking for it.
The vast majority of this game are relatively casual, meaning they don't have the inclination to sit down and approach it systematically to get better, or to become as good as they can. Not everybody lives and dies for 1v1 either.
What's the alternative?
Wiley.
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Forget the whines. They are only a consequence of lopsided "combat".
The vast majority of this game are relatively casual, meaning they don't have the inclination to sit down and approach it systematically to get better, or to become as good as they can. Not everybody lives and dies for 1v1 either.
Forget extreme purists' 1:1s. I am talking about any fight where the players actually get to choose and execute at least a handful of tactical choices before they win or lose. IOW gameplay. You do not get that in a 4:1 pileup or any "base fight" where it's nothing but a string of such engagements. The extreme instance being vulching. There is no fight there. There's no gameplay, no exchange, for the vulchee and no peril nor victory for the vulcher.
What is the purpose of e.g. the AH Trainer Corps? To teach people to fly and fight. It says something about the bang they get for their buck when players don't get a chance to put to use much if anything such as what the AHTC teaches.
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Zoney, "we" are the people who use to play. Unlike many of my contemporaries I'm still here, they have moved on.
Grizz, LOL!!! talk about grumpy old men, you don't even play the game any more...could it be because it sucks or has become boring?
Lusche, players change, and some drastically. I know I change 3 or 4 times a day when I get a chance to play, because it is what the game allows. Stats are stats, not FACTS.
It doesn't matter what "I remember" about the game, we can all agree that the game needs changes. This game MUST cater to many styles/types of players if it is to flourish. We have
- Fighters- love to do nothing but fight don't even know you can win the war
- Tankers- only know planes are around when their spawn camp gets hit by A20's
- Mission/group players- will do what ever it takes to see that system message pop up
In side these groups are sub groups.
- Fighters- made up of lone wolves, winged teams/historians, full squads both as fighter sweeps types as well as mission orintated/history type flying cover missions and such.
- Tankers- spawn campers, attack battle groups, defender groups the use wirbles and Osties as there main rides
- Mission/group players-Hordes protecting the new/weak, missions/historians team up to "play war", land grabbers do what ever is needed to grab the next base, vulchers will join a mission in the hopes that ack gets cleared so they can grab some easy kills and have no interest in grabbing the base
I'm sure there are more, and ...let me put this in big letters so everyone understand... THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ANY OF THESE STYLES OF PLAY! These are are all, and some of the players that HTC has to accommodate for this game to continue and grow. The problem is how to make it so that all of these groups can play they way they want with out crushing someone else playing style.
Suggestions
- Bring the old strat back- The separate zone base created major battle for a zone base. Depots spread about the map created a wonder land of "porking " opportunities both for helping in the war effort as well as easy points/perks for both buffs and GVs. With the old depot setup GV hunting was a fun pass time for many as well as clearing a depot with a GV. The same can be said about buff hunting as well as buffs making the shorter quicker run to the depots instead of the long flight to ones that may not be there when you arrive because they have retreated.
- Towns- remove the ack, make the GV spawn points be opposite side of the town than the field but the same distance as the field is to the town. HTC made these beautiful towns with streets and sign posts and bridges and building all over the place. What a wonderful place for a GV battle! It doesn't happen because the spawn points are on the other side of the fields. Campers kill them before they can get to the town and battle it out. Ack only hurts GVs. Planes can bomb the towns with out ack bothering them. Put a coupe around the map room to cover it, but make sure they don't fire through buildings and trees. An equal footing should give the GV places to battle it out in the towns by making the ride in equal. More GV battles make more spots for dive bombers.
- Captures- tie the hardness of the buildings to the incoming raid numbers. The larger the number of enemy in the DAR circle the more ordinance needed to take down a building. Hordes will still come in, but now everyone's bombs will be needed. This also goes the other way. A small force won't need as much to take the town down and so can capture WITHOUT the need of a horde. This way small attack groups have the same chance at a capture as the hordes. With no ack at the town the newly captured base will have to be defended for 30 minutes until the building pop back up other wise as it is still "white flagged" it can be recaptured with ease.
- Missions- create a mission ready room like "that other game" use to have. Building a mission and having the meeting room for everyone to meet up before the mission in builds comradiery , and adds immersion for those "history" types. With the wall board with waypoints and wings and such will lead to missions with a purpose instead of the old "everyone grab a 110 heavy". Added immersion would add to the team aspect of the game.
- points/perks- these could be used to promote combat as well. Like ENY is used to reward you for winning a fight with a 109G2 so could they be used to winning a base with smaller numbers, or holding the base after capturing it, or defending it from an attack.
Making changes like these won't stop a horde, or change the win the wars ideas, but it would create more combat to accomplish the same things. You can still run in a horde if that what you need, or you can work a side battle with a few of your squadies. HTC has most of this stuff in the game. By adding more and leading people to using whats there it will make the game have more content. Missions will be something people would look forward to as more interest would be generated by anything other than "here comes the same old same old"
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zone system and mission planning for sure :aok
new maps would help alot too - a change is as good as a rest. maps of an appropriate size for the player numbers would help too, many are just way too big.
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An interesting post
While I agree with some of the suggestions, I found the "Capture" idea to be a bit gamey.
The one that really piqued my interest was the suggestion of removing ack from town. I'm not so sure about that, but what I was thinking is that perhaps after the ack reaches a certain low point in it's elevation (say 2-4 deg) it would be disabled from firing. This would allow tankers to use terrain to get in close.
I tried to do some research on the factual numbers for ack gun elevations, but wasn't sure which type is modeled in-game.
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Lusche, players change, and some drastically. I know I change 3 or 4 times a day when I get a chance to play, because it is what the game allows. Stats are stats, not FACTS.
Individual players do. Some times I fly this way, one the other.
But the arena as a whole, a group of 4000 to 5000 players does not, not literally all at once and completely radical from one day to the other, not "just because". And that's what you are trying to make believe.
Oh, and I think a further comment on the "facts" statement ain't necessary. :rofl
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zone system and mission planning for sure :aok
new maps would help alot too - a change is as good as a rest. maps of an appropriate size for the player numbers would help too, many are just way too big.
I forgot to mention maps. I think that we ran into issues when we went to the big maps. It looked like the numbers were growing fast enough to support them but with the recent decline it hurts more than help. What we need is some "middle sized" maps. We could use the same size maps we have now, but like ...I think it was fester said, "you don't have to use the whole map". So instead of hundreds of bases covering the whole map put like 90 in the center of a map leaving the outside couple of sectors on each side empty. This way you could still meet the base per sector limits HTC wants on his maps but the fronts would be concentrated closer rather than more spread out.
While I agree with some of the suggestions, I found the "Capture" idea to be a bit gamey.
The one that really piqued my interest was the suggestion of removing ack from town. I'm not so sure about that, but what I was thinking is that perhaps after the ack reaches a certain low point in it's elevation (say 2-4 deg) it would be disabled from firing. This would allow tankers to use terrain to get in close.
I tried to do some research on the factual numbers for ack gun elevations, but wasn't sure which type is modeled in-game.
What do you mean by gamey, it what way? To me it would be simulating a bigger battle. If defenders don't show up to match the the enemy with the hardness factor it would give the defenders a chance to defend. If the defender have a chance, maybe more people would defend?
Individual players do. Some times I fly this way, one the other.
But the arena as a whole, a group of 4000 to 5000 players does not, not literally all at once and completely radical from one day to the other, not "just because". And that's what you are trying to make believe.
Oh, and I think a further comment on the "facts" statement ain't necessary. :rofl
But who's to say a third of them changed one day, and eighth the next day, and then a quarter the day after? If the bish horde everyday, and the rooks and Knits only do it every other day your still going to see the same "third" hording but it doesn't show you the real picture that the Bish are a bunch of horde pigs! :devil j/k See what I mean, stats are just stats, not facts.
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What do you mean by gamey, it what way? To me it would be simulating a bigger battle. If defenders don't show up to match the the enemy with the hardness factor it would give the defenders a chance to defend. If the defender have a chance, maybe more people would defend?
The whole idea of linking object hardness to the number of enemy in the area is very gamey in my opinion. For the program to say, "Sorry, there are too many of you. The buildings shall now be hurricane proof." or "Hey look, it's just a few guys coming, their bombs can now blow this town down like a house of cards." just doesn't seem right to me.
What would stop the "horde" from splitting into many "hordlets" and attacking numerous bases at once? After all, their bombs will be much more effective when they fly in small numbers.
However, I am fully in support of leaving ack down for a certain time period, thus requiring the base-takers to defend.
Another VH in or near the town would be sweet too, but alas, that wish has so far been ignored. :furious :lol
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BTW, the last two days I went through a lot of old threads from 2001-2004 to help me to explain some stats... what I found was the very same stuff: "Nobody fights anymore" "game went downhill" "nothing but hordes" "gamers have taken over" on every second page. It's just as if todays people just copy & paste these old complaints -- quote from Snailman
:aok
Fugitive, you have some interesting suggestions about spawn points towns and GV battles. As I said somewhere before, I believe that tearing up the town with Heavy Bombers and Jabo fighters is gamey (looking at the historical war time targets, being factories and supply lines). I agree the role of destructible buildings in town should be dedicated to ground vehicles.
One step toward this goal would be to move the maproom onto the airbase or even better a control strat. The more troops you fill up at certain strats the more bases are available. Such a spin would shake things up enough that some would whine and pout, but I think the majority would breathe an air of relief, that their beloved game of the ages is not getting dusty and about to retire, instead it would again be making steps into the future that their competition could only hope to duplicate.
Having said again, that the game play should be tweaked, I would like to see the custom arenas take the initiative to produce some of these alternative win / capture servers. Then let the player base decide which are more popular. This is one of the many great tools that HTC has given us that we can produce examples of what we like to see. Not just jabber on about it...... we have player made skins, custom sounds, player made AI missions, Terrain editors, and now Custom Arenas. <-- Will be my month's task. Please join me and help me through this process. :salute
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As I said somewhere before, I believe that tearing up the town with Heavy Bombers and Jabo fighters is gamey (looking at the historical war time targets, being factories and supply lines).
I yearn for the day when we get more logistical targets to hit. Trains, truck convoys and merchant shipping (that moves at life-like speeds) would do wonders for this game. In my opinion anyway.
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The whole idea of linking object hardness to the number of enemy in the area is very gamey in my opinion. For the program to say, "Sorry, there are too many of you. The buildings shall now be hurricane proof." or "Hey look, it's just a few guys coming, their bombs can now blow this town down like a house of cards." just doesn't seem right to me.
What would stop the "horde" from splitting into many "hordlets" and attacking numerous bases at once? After all, their bombs will be much more effective when they fly in small numbers.
However, I am fully in support of leaving ack down for a certain time period, thus requiring the base-takers to defend.
Another VH in or near the town would be sweet too, but alas, that wish has so far been ignored. :furious :lol
There would be nothing wrong with that. Like I said, if defenders feel they have a chance at fending off the attack, more would defend. As it is now there is no defending against a horde. Split the horde into 3 attacks and maybe you stop two of them. It's still a win win. Attackers win because they got a base or two. Defenders win because they stopped and attack or two. Fighter guys win because they were some fights instead of 10 to 1 odds. Mission people win because they had a part in the mission whether they took the base or not, they participated, unlike now where the late guys circle the field waiting for something to pop back up.
Looks like a lot of people might have fun in a senario like this, and thats the point of playing a game right?
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So a mission planner gets things going...
"OK guys we're gonna go NOE to A-XX. Grab yer 110's and let's head out."
"Oh wait, we can only have nine guys because any more and the building hardness increases."
"Sorry Melvin, you can't come."
:cry :cry :cry :lol
Totally gaming the game is what I predict if this sort of thing comes to fruition.
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Grizz, LOL!!! talk about grumpy old men, you don't even play the game any more...could it be because it sucks or has become boring?
This is the first month I've been canceled in in quite some time. It does not suck but it has become a little on the boring side. I mostly attribute that to just being burnt out and needing a break and secondary reasons being not as many friends are flying. Game play issues are not the reason, as the game has not changed much at all since I started flying years ago.
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This is the first month I've been canceled in in quite some time. It does not suck but it has become a little on the boring side. I mostly attribute that to just being burnt out and needing a break and secondary reasons being not as many friends are flying. Game play issues are not the reason, as the game has not changed much at all since I started flying years ago.
Going to agree with Grizz on this one. The whines are consistent from the beginning going back to Airwarrior. As one also going through one of the times where the game feels like a grind, I know that's on me. It tends to cycle and I'll get my fire back again. My first instinct is to find fault with the game, and I'm sure if I went back through all my posts over the years I'd find many where i blame it on the game or how the game is played.
Would I like it if there was a way to set up the fights so it wasn't so often a one sided mob? Sure. I don't know that there is a way however unless HTC starts to choreograph the battle in the MA so that there are things like zone limits etc. In the end I don't think it should ever come down to that though.
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So a mission planner gets things going...
"OK guys we're gonna go NOE to A-XX. Grab yer 110's and let's head out."
"Oh wait, we can only have nine guys because any more and the building hardness increases."
"Sorry Melvin, you can't come."
:cry :cry :cry :lol
Totally gaming the game is what I predict if this sort of thing comes to fruition.
...and that is whats wrong with the game.... the players that look at it like this.
How much fun are NOEs? Sure the first 15 or 20 might be fun, but after 50, 100, 200? Doesn't it get boring? If I join a mission and those are the "orders" I'm out before it leave the tower, let alone the ground.
You get out of this what you put in it. If you always do the same thing over and over again it gets boring, and you get "burnt out". If you make lame simple mission that challenge no one then thats what you going to have lame boring missions. If you fight every plane the same way most of your fights are going to end the same way. That goes for the noobs as well as the hot sticks. If your in a 109-K4 and come up against a pony and you do the same maneuvers you do every time you run into a pony it's going to get boring, even if your winning it !
No one looks to challenge themselves any more. Everyone looks for the easy way out....how boring!
So if the community doesn't wish to change the "game" will continue to stagnate. More and more players will become bored....err burnt out and take a break. Some will come back, others will move on. HTC on the other hand could create changes that force the community to change, and they have at other times. They will again. I know, my rose colored glasses are what lead me, but if I'm so wrong why were there need for changes before? We always had NOEs but it was until recently that HTC changed the radar to make it harder to run them and there by cutting the number of NOE mission drastically.
Yes there were complaints about hordes and poor game play in the old days, but it is not as rampant as it is now. I've been playing this game for over 10 years, never took a break. I may not put in the hours I use to but I'm still here. Always looking for that next good fight. The other night it was a running battle between me in B24s and Snuggie in a 110. We went over a number of sectors and he was careful and finally got all 3 of my buffs. I hit him a few times but his angle in and out made it really hard to land any good ones. It was a blast!
I'm a fighter guy, but was in a buff because I didn't want to be in the horde and had gotten tired of fighting against a horde, so I changed it up. Doing the same thing over and over isn't going to cut it. Todays players spend most of their time doing the same thing over and over.... kinda like all those xbox games. A,A,up,up, down, B,B pick up the gold and do the same thing to the next guy. It's that mentality that cause people to ask for the same things over and over.... we need more eye candy, why? because they are bored looking at the old stuff while they hit A,A,up,up, down, B,B We need new planes, why because they are bored augering the one they fly now. and the best one of all, we need new maps WHY? Your NOE mission will work the same as on the old maps!
If we accept the fact that the game is a "combat" game then the only thing that will keep the game going is COMBAT. If the players have to be forced into combat so be it. Other wise HTC might as well just make a mission launcher, you pick a side to be on, and the mission launches. You complete your mission objective and win points if you don't you get nothing. Turn the game in to a planned action based game like all the others. Wow, that sounds like fun, anyone up for a quest?
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Perhaps a "Dicta Fugitive" is needed so everyone can see once and for all what is okay and what is not. Juggler did a fantastic job with his Dicta Juggler and Dicta Sheeple. Step up Fugi!
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I think the only way you could fundamentally change the nature of the game is if 'win the map' disappeared. If at a certain point there was no further you could go and you had to then fight and defend what you've taken, it would make it easier for folks to take the risk to come out of the mob.
Even if your country got backed up as far as it could be, there would still be incentive to try and regroup and fight too instead of saying the heck with it. Rotate the maps every 24 or 48 hours so they don't get stale too. With the ultimate goal right now being 'win the map' and win it fast, there is more incentive to remain in the largest crowd and find your success in base capture messages.
The other thought would be making it harder to take a base the further into the other guy's country you got. Make supply lines vulnerable, and defenses tougher the closer they get to HQ. Make it a real challenge to take the battle all the way to the end.
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I think the only way you could fundamentally change the nature of the game is if 'win the map' disappeared. If at a certain point there was no further you could go and you had to then fight and defend what you've taken, it would make it easier for folks to take the risk to come out of the mob.
And there's the essence of Fugi's rose colored glasses.
Back in AW there were only three capturable bases. People fought like crazy to take or defend them (including the immortal death stars). The rest of the map was uncapturable even though bases could be temporarily closed. Unless you were a base taker playing for the three capturable bases there wasn't much left but the glory of the fight. Even if you were a base taker and took the base you soon had to become a base defender.
Missions were more complex as you needed to close the enemy bases near the capturables to make the capture easier, thus you had to spread your resources to accomplish multiple objectives. Strats were also more impactful as closing the Spit factory meant no Spits for that country.
While all that was going on the furthest bases from the capturables had no strategic significance so were largely left alone. This left space for the furballers to play their hearts away in immortalized places like the Vod and C5.
Not to leave the GVer's out there were bridges over the rivers allowing sneak attacks into the capturables and enemy territory to close bases. No spawn points. Drive time.
AW did do some things incredibly well in retrospect. The mechanics of the game have changed. The players have not in all this time. IMO it's incumbent on HT to work out the mechanics to make the game work for everyone. Clearly AW did a better job in this regard. Is it time to look back to the future?
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And there's the essence of Fugi's rose colored glasses.
Back in AW there were only three capturable bases. People fought like crazy to take or defend them (including the immortal death stars). The rest of the map was uncapturable even though bases could be temporarily closed. Unless you were a base taker playing for the three capturable bases there wasn't much left but the glory of the fight. Even if you were a base taker and took the base you soon had to become a base defender.
Missions were more complex as you needed to close the enemy bases near the capturables to make the capture easier, thus you had to spread your resources to accomplish multiple objectives. Strats were also more impactful as closing the Spit factory meant no Spits for that country.
While all that was going on the furthest bases from the capturables had no strategic significance so were largely left alone. This left space for the furballers to play their hearts away in immortalized places like the Vod and C5.
Not to leave the GVer's out there were bridges over the rivers allowing sneak attacks into the capturables and enemy territory to close bases. No spawn points. Drive time.
AW did do some things incredibly well in retrospect. The mechanics of the game have changed. The players have not in all this time. IMO it's incumbent on HT to work out the mechanics to make the game work for everyone. Clearly AW did a better job in this regard. Is it time to look back to the future?
In the end that's what I'm remembering. And I remember when it changed in AW3 and folks figured out you could take the entire map. I'm pretty sure I was there the first time it was done. And I do believe that changed the dynamics for the worse.
Now that you mention it, I do remember those bridges and taking jeeps across them on "Rat Patrol" runs :)
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:salute The Fugitive
I like the way you think :aok
Some of you are saying that the type of player hasn't changed any over the years. That's not what I believe. When I started in 2005or6, the training arena was full every night. The people in there I talked to or heard on range were in their 30s 40s and even 50s. Some old man from the Satans Playmates took the time and showed me how to land a P51D. I was still a #guy and he invited me to the squad and all those guys were 30s and 40s.
Now the TA is empty every night and the DA and MA is filled with boys like "Midway" looking to be Johnny Bravo of the intardnet and here we're all raisin' hell about it on the BBS several years later. :huh
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...and that is whats wrong with the game.... the players that look at it like this.
Umm yeah, that is what's wrong with this game. :rolleyes:
No one looks to challenge themselves any more. Everyone looks for the easy way out....how boring!
No one but teh uber pee lots like you, that is. How ridiculously arrogant.
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The path of least resistance. It ain't arrogance to call it for what it is.
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Such a cruel world where people don't act the way you want them to act and do what you want them to do.
Oh the humanity!
PS
NOEs are fun I did them and to this day I join them whenever I see them.
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there's a easy way to stop them. if the nits are hording, do this-- Get on 200 an type the following: "Dear Bishops, please help us kill Nits--your friends--the Rooks!". then you attack them from 2 fronts. it stops them pretty quick and its alot of fun! used to work for us in the midwar all the time!
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Perhaps a "Dicta Fugitive" is needed so everyone can see once and for all what is okay and what is not. Juggler did a fantastic job with his Dicta Juggler and Dicta Sheeple. Step up Fugi!
Everything is ok as long as there is combat involved. Pretty easy Dicta.
Umm yeah, that is what's wrong with this game. :rolleyes:
No one but teh uber pee lots like you, that is. How ridiculously arrogant.
My point is there is really nothing wrong with the game, its the players.
As for me being uber LOL ya right! The point is, where's the challenge in 30 guys running NOE and capturing a base? There is none.
You still haven't told me your I'm game name Melvin. You hiding something?
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Everything is ok as long as there is combat involved. Pretty easy Dicta.
Fair enough, but we will still need a Dicta Fugitive to simply explain what "combat" is.
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...and that is whats wrong with the game.... the players that look at it like this.
How much fun are NOEs? Sure the first 15 or 20 might be fun, but after 50, 100, 200? Doesn't it get boring? If I join a mission and those are the "orders" I'm out before it leave the tower, let alone the ground.
Some people thoroughly enjoy it. I enjoy flying mainly bombers at 25K+ alt. People always tell me how boring it is for them and that they'd rather go in and dog fight. Dog fighting is nowhere near my specialty (I suck at it....badly) but I don't hate on those who enjoy doing it over and over and over, even after they hate on us "win teh warz" types. Why? Because it's their $15.00.
I love upping against the horde because it means I will get a kill and I can be canon fodder long enough for allies to up and mount a defense. I may suck at dog fighting but I can make people chase me for a long long long time. "C'mon sweet thang. Get that tunnel vision. ;)"
What isn't fun to you may be a blast for someone else. I think it's kinda fun weaving in, out and around the trees. More challenging than trying to avoid those deadly clouds of doom. :uhoh
:salute
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Some people thoroughly enjoy it. I enjoy flying mainly bombers at 25K+ alt. People always tell me how boring it is for them and that they'd rather go in and dog fight. Dog fighting is nowhere near my specialty (I suck at it....badly) but I don't hate on those who enjoy doing it over and over and over, even after they hate on us "win teh warz" types. Why? Because it's their $15.00.
I love upping against the horde because it means I will get a kill and I can be canon fodder long enough for allies to up and mount a defense. I may suck at dog fighting but I can make people chase me for a long long long time. "C'mon sweet thang. Get that tunnel vision. ;)"
What isn't fun to you may be a blast for someone else. I think it's kinda fun weaving in, out and around the trees. More challenging than trying to avoid those deadly clouds of doom. :uhoh
:salute
I agree that some people love it. That will change tho, even you and fighters :devil I've seen many a player say they were happy only buffing, or GVing, or running in a mega squad. After awhile tho they get bored and look to try something new. HTC has provided a bunch of things to do and many ways to do them.
NOE's are a good example. There were always there. The Mafia use to run a couple every squad night. Then they became the main way to take a base. Why because it was the easiest way to do it with less than skilled players. Any group of 15-20 guys :rolleyes: could grab a base that way. It became so popular the night was nothing but jumping from flashing base to flashing base to try and stop them. HTC changed the radar. Now you can run NOE's but its not as common as it was. It's a bit harder to do and takes a bit more skill....or a map with lots of water around but they forced a change in play. They didn't STOP anyone from running NOEs, but they did force them into a different way to run them.
They shouldn't take away ANY type of play, but like NOEs they shouldn't be the ONLY type of play either.
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Fair enough, but we will still need a Dicta Fugitive to simply explain what "combat" is.
Come on, seriously?
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You still haven't told me your I'm game name Melvin. You hiding something?
I left for a bit and when I came back Melvin was unavailable.
Now I play as Melvin1.
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Hordes are opportunities. There they are feeling a bit invincible because of the numerical superiority and then wham! you knock a few out of the sky. Nothing takes away confidence like watching a bud get whacked.
Someone posted a pic a while back that was just absolutely one of the most humorus takes on hordes I've seen. When I get my cpu fan I'll repost it.