Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: 1Nicolas on December 10, 2011, 02:12:47 PM

Title: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: 1Nicolas on December 10, 2011, 02:12:47 PM
Since the Fi-156 Storch Is adding the Observation aircraft type to the game,Why not the J-4 Cub? It is very well known and Is commonly used nowaday's for General Aviation piloting. Anyways, Both WILL NOT BE PERKED PLZ!
Specs:

General characteristics

Crew: one pilot
Capacity: one passenger
Length: 22 ft 5 in (6.83 m)
Wingspan: 35 ft 3 in (10.74 m)
Height: 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m)
Wing area: 178.5 ft² (16.58 m²)
Empty weight: 765 lb (345 kg)
Useful load: 455 lb (205 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 1,220 lb (550 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Continental A-65-8 air-cooled flat four, 65 hp (48 kW) at 2,350 rpm
Performance

Maximum speed: 76 kn (87 mph, 140 km/h)
Cruise speed: 65 kn (75 mph, 121 km/h)
Range: 191 NM (220 mi, 354 km)
Service ceiling: 11,500 ft (3,500 m)
Rate of climb: 450 ft/min (2.3 m/s)
Wing loading: 6.84 lb/ft² (33.4 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 18.75 lb/hp (11.35 kg/kW)
Pic of Plane during WWII 1942 North Africa:(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x347/1Nicolas/USAFM_ey22.jpg)
Cockpit:(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x347/1Nicolas/300px-Piper_Cub_cockpit.jpg)
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: SmokinLoon on December 10, 2011, 02:21:03 PM
I vote no.  It doesn't have a rear/dorsal MG for defense.   ;)  AND...  at 85mph it is slower than a 7 years itch, it makes the Stork look like a speed demon.

Let the Storch have a chance to prove that the concept will/will not work.  Then, if there is another FO aircraft that can be added that would add something new to AH then perhaps.  But until then... NO.   :aok 
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: 1Nicolas on December 10, 2011, 02:27:25 PM
I vote no.  It doesn't have a rear/dorsal MG for defense.   ;)  AND...  at 85mph it is slower than a 7 years itch, it makes the Stork look like a speed demon.

Let the Storch have a chance to prove that the concept will/will not work.  Then, if there is another FO aircraft that can be added that would add something new to AH then perhaps.  But until then... NO.   :aok 
Okay then but some people complain that the plane is better than Storch. I DONT know why
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Saxman on December 10, 2011, 02:33:35 PM
If the concept does work, you've got a couple naval birds that you can add:

Vought OS2U Kingfisher

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/OS2U-2_Kingfisher_in_flight_1942.jpg)

Armament: 2 Browning .30cal machine guns and up to 750lbs of bombs

Mitsubishi F1M

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/F1m_00637_2g.jpg)

Armament: 2 7.7mm forward-firing machine guns and one aft 7.7mm machine gun, 2x 60kg bombs

The Kingfisher and Pete were the primary light observation planes utilized by the USN and IJN, respectively. These could be made available at ports and carrier groups (or battleships, if HTC would ever add them. *nudge nudge*) These aircraft could be launched by Task Groups even if the carrier is sunk. However this WOULD require modeling for float planes (possibly some modification of the PT boat and LVT coding).
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 10, 2011, 02:43:45 PM
450 ft/min climbrate is generous at best. Try 200 ft/min
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: curry1 on December 10, 2011, 03:26:18 PM
450 ft/min climbrate is generous at best. Try 200 ft/min

I guess the one you flew didn't have the added manual pedals. :airplane:
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Seanaldinho on December 10, 2011, 03:42:59 PM
Okay then but some people complain that the plane is better than Storch. I DONT know why

Better how? :headscratch:

The Piper is slower and has zero armament and while yes the little rear gun on the Storch isnt much it is something. The Piper while having a short takeoff and landing roll I believe the Storch's is better.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MAINER on December 10, 2011, 05:33:59 PM
I fly a J-3 cub in real life and it tops out a 120 not 85... very nice plane i love to prop start it
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 10, 2011, 05:36:02 PM
Nicolas,

You are requesting two different planes. You asked for the J-4 and posted a picture of an L-4 (military version of an J-3). I don't believe J-4 was ever used by the military.


This is what a J-4 looks like:

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7973/piperj4apimamuseum29100.jpg)
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 10, 2011, 05:52:05 PM
450 ft/min climbrate is generous at best. Try 200 ft/min
I fly a J-3 cub in real life and it tops out a 120 not 85... very nice plane i love to prop start it

It is possible that those numbers are correct. Remember it was build in the 30s, there are a lot of different models out there. Also looking at my previous post we don't even know what plane he's talking about.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 10, 2011, 07:40:56 PM
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/268494_1836145223875_1247804014_31560754_7646467_n.jpg)

Theres a picture of the panel in the cub I fly. redline is 120mph.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 10, 2011, 07:49:59 PM
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/268494_1836145223875_1247804014_31560754_7646467_n.jpg)

Theres a picture of the panel in the cub I fly. redline is 120mph.

Didn't know you flew cubs.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Butcher on December 10, 2011, 07:55:52 PM
It is possible that those numbers are correct. Remember it was build in the 30s, there are a lot of different models out there. Also looking at my previous post we don't even know what plane he's talking about.

He's a young kid whose working on his post count, every few days expect a new post about something we don't need or won't be added any time soon.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 10, 2011, 08:01:07 PM
Didn't know you flew cubs.

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/260171_1836989444980_1247804014_31561964_3288976_n.jpg)

flying it on Monday if the weather is decent.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 10, 2011, 08:02:47 PM
probly not with the door open though. Burrrrrrrr.

It's almost kind of silly to fly, except when I have a few extra dollars. I can fly my plane for almost the same price as the cub rents for and I go twice as fast.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 10, 2011, 08:45:41 PM
I can fly my plane for almost the same price as the cub rents for and I go twice as fast.

Yeah but you know how fun the cub is.  :D

(never flown one myself though)
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 10, 2011, 08:51:40 PM
Yes I do  :D It really is a blast. I like the cub more than the L4- The L4 has a metal prop and is not easy to hand prop. The cubs prop is wooden and usually starts on the first yank.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 10, 2011, 08:58:58 PM
Yes I do  :D It really is a blast. I like the cub more than the L4- The L4 has a metal prop and is not easy to hand prop. The cubs prop is wooden and usually starts on the first yank.

Why is metal prop harder to hand prop? Does the L-4 have a bigger engine or something?
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 10, 2011, 09:09:04 PM
Why is metal prop harder to hand prop? Does the L-4 have a bigger engine or something?
same engine. The Metal prop will cut your hand if you're not wearing gloves.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 10, 2011, 09:20:01 PM
same engine. The Metal prop will cut your hand if you're not wearing gloves.

Why?

I obviously never had to hand prop anything.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Seanaldinho on December 10, 2011, 09:34:45 PM
Why?

I obviously never had to hand prop anything.

Propellers have sharp edges?
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 10, 2011, 09:37:00 PM
the paint has come off the leading edge of the propeller and it isnt perfectly smooth.....its not jagged, but it will cut you pretty good if you pull it through to prop it.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 10, 2011, 09:39:18 PM
The cub comes alive pretty easy (This actually wasnt my first time propping, I had done it about 15 seconds prior and my instructor killed the engine so I could do it again and get it on video.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2QCzYNnML0&feature=channel_video_title
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MAINER on December 11, 2011, 07:52:28 AM
He's a young kid whose working on his post count, every few days expect a new post about something we don't need or won't be added any time soon.

Are you saying that i'm lying? So what if i'm a young kid. I have 11 hours in a J-3 Cub, 3 hours in a Harvard MK.4 and 2 hours in a WACO UBF-2 and i am working on my Private Pilots License. I could really care less about my post count. I don't need to prove myself to you. I thought people would be glad that more young people are joining the game.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Butcher on December 11, 2011, 08:46:15 AM
Are you saying that i'm lying? So what if i'm a young kid. I have 11 hours in a J-3 Cub, 3 hours in a Harvard MK.4 and 2 hours in a WACO UBF-2 and i am working on my Private Pilots License. I could really care less about my post count. I don't need to prove myself to you. I thought people would be glad that more young people are joining the game.

You misread my comment as it was directed to 1Nicolas, in response to why we needed the Piper cub which after getting the storch will hopefully be the only observation plane we get for a very long time (hopefully).

Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 11, 2011, 10:07:23 AM
Doesn't matter if youre a young kid or not. A cub will not do 120mph in level flight.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MAINER on December 11, 2011, 10:22:04 AM
You misread my comment as it was directed to 1Nicolas, in response to why we needed the Piper cub which after getting the storch will hopefully be the only observation plane we get for a very long time (hopefully).



Sorry it sounded like that was directed to me i hope you accept my apology  :salute
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MAINER on December 11, 2011, 10:31:22 AM
Doesn't matter if youre a young kid or not. A cub will not do 120mph in level flight.

It depends on what kind of J-3 you have. If you have a J-3C it would have a Continental A-series flat four. There were 65 and 85hp versions. The one I fly is an 85 an in level flight we have hit 110-115mph. But we cruise around 80. There were also the J-3F that had a Franklin flat four engine. I think a brand new J-3 85hp single pilot and low fuel could hit 120 but you would never be doing that in a combat situation in an L-4 with an observer and full fuel.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Butcher on December 11, 2011, 11:13:20 AM
Sorry it sounded like that was directed to me i hope you accept my apology  :salute

LOL not a problem I completely understand <S>!
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: 2ADoc on December 11, 2011, 11:26:46 AM
I have flown all the L- birds, and owned a 1943 J-3, admitted mine had the 65hp, and the only way I could get it anywhere near the red line was coming out of a loop, or in a dive.  Now I did fly a Supercruiser that was a solid 110 cruise.  The Taylorcraft was the fastest of all L-birds, due to it's laminar flow type of wing, it was a fun plane to fly just never enjoyed landing it.  One mph over and you float, 1 mph under and you drop like a rock.  The Aeronica champ was a good plane a knot or 2 faster than the J-3 but it was hard to get in because of how the door is hinged, and it had olio strut gears and were soft.  I have flown at least 10 different J-3 and never have see one go above the 85-90 mph range.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: colmbo on December 11, 2011, 11:39:40 AM
The cub comes alive pretty easy (This actually wasnt my first time propping, I had done it about 15 seconds prior and my instructor killed the engine so I could do it again and get it on video.)

Tupac,

You're doing it wrong.   :devil

(http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/Warbirds/CubStarter_590.jpg)
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Tupac on December 11, 2011, 11:40:00 AM
It's a J3C-65

Definitely not a speed demon
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 11, 2011, 12:24:06 PM
the paint has come off the leading edge of the propeller and it isnt perfectly smooth.....its not jagged, but it will cut you pretty good if you pull it through to prop it.

Perhaps it's time to replace the prop then?
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 11, 2011, 12:27:36 PM
Propellers have sharp edges?

Props are not supposed to be sharp. I seen non-smooth props before but I never actually seen a prop that's sharp.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Seanaldinho on December 11, 2011, 01:37:06 PM
Props are not supposed to be sharp. I seen non-smooth props before but I never actually seen a prop that's sharp.

Well not like sharp to cut you if you touch it, like a knife would cut you. But they are thin enough that if you apply a lot of pressure it could hurt your hand was my thought.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 11, 2011, 01:41:27 PM
Well not like sharp to cut you if you touch it, like a knife would cut you. But they are thin enough that if you apply a lot of pressure it could hurt your hand was my thought.

Not really. Technically if you hit hard enough you can cut yourself with anything, but I never cut myself on a prop.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: 2ADoc on December 12, 2011, 07:24:02 PM
Actually you shouldn't wrap your fingers around the back side of the prop, if it kicks back it will cut you, if it doesn't cut you, when it kicks back it will hurt like he// anyways.  That being said, I always wrap my fingers around the back, and have had kick backs before, yea they hurt.  The worst kick back I have ever had was from a Franklin on a PT-22 it backfired when it started and I thought it was going to pull my shoulder out of place.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Traveler on December 13, 2011, 09:49:20 PM
I fly a J-3 cub in real life and it tops out a 120 not 85... very nice plane i love to prop start it

Forgive me, but what are you smoking?  A J3 Cub doing 120, on what power plant ?  I’ve owned several and flown many(4000 hours in cubs alone).  The most common is the a J3 with a 65 hp engine, and you plan on doing cross country at 50MPH in that.   In fact you only need to remember that one number for all your flying.  I”ve towed banners with soupped up J3’s with 180 hp engines and they do a little over 100 indicated when not towing a banner.   I’ve towed banners, gliders, and flown about every tail wheel aircraft there is, and a few real tail draggers, with the skid (no tail wheel).  Perhaps you were flying a supper cub , that’s not a J3, but someone told you it was. With  200 horse a supper cub would do 120MPH indicated. 
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 13, 2011, 10:07:05 PM
Forgive me, but what are you smoking?  A J3 Cub doing 120, on what power plant ?  I’ve owned several and flown many(4000 hours in cubs alone).  The most common is the a J3 with a 65 hp engine, and you plan on doing cross country at 50MPH in that.   In fact you only need to remember that one number for all your flying.  I”ve towed banners with soupped up J3’s with 180 hp engines and they do a little over 100 indicated when not towing a banner.   I’ve towed banners, gliders, and flown about every tail wheel aircraft there is, and a few real tail draggers, with the skid (no tail wheel).  Perhaps you were flying a supper cub , that’s not a J3, but someone told you it was. With  200 horse a supper cub would do 120MPH indicated. 

Perhaps he is thinking km/h?
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Toad on December 13, 2011, 10:14:11 PM
The worst kick back I have ever had was from a Franklin on a PT-22 it backfired when it started and I thought it was going to pull my shoulder out of place.

I have never seen a Ryan PT-22 with a Franklin on it. I've seen a bunch and flown one with a Kinner though.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Rino on December 13, 2011, 11:18:12 PM
      Good to see you still kicking Toad!  I think of you every time I see a PT-19  :D
I didn't know you had a shot at a Maytag Messerschmidt :D

(http://i.pbase.com/g6/34/632034/2/69325103.KSC0AXGH.jpg)

Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MK-84 on December 13, 2011, 11:25:09 PM
Warning! I don't have any idea of what I'm talking about :)

Is a Piper Cub's Never exceed 120?
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MachFly on December 14, 2011, 12:11:37 AM
Warning! I don't have any idea of what I'm talking about :)

 :rofl :rofl

That was funny.  :rofl
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: MAINER on December 14, 2011, 06:47:55 AM
No this is a 1946 Piper J-3 and has been refitted with a 85hp continental. cruising at 50mph? thats just a little bit faster then what we land at. :headscratch: 
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: 2ADoc on December 14, 2011, 09:55:32 AM
You are right toad it was a Kinner, not a Franklin.  My bad.
Title: Re: Piper J-4 Cub
Post by: Babalonian on December 15, 2011, 04:29:23 PM
I vote no.  It doesn't have a rear/dorsal MG for defense.   ;)  AND...  at 85mph it is slower than a 7 years itch, it makes the Stork look like a speed demon.

Let the Storch have a chance to prove that the concept will/will not work.  Then, if there is another FO aircraft that can be added that would add something new to AH then perhaps.  But until then... NO.   :aok 

Well, I'm a more positive supporter for it, the Cub (if it lives up to its expectations/reputation) should be one of the funnest planes to fly in AH and be one of the top observer aircraft in use...  but I do agree, the Storch is a better candidate for testing the proverbial uncharted waters here as it's more versatile and independent.

Doesn't matter if youre a young kid or not. A cub will not do 120mph in level flight.

I was about to say, I've only read about them, but even a modern and well-taken care of cub, whoever painted the 120mph redline onto the one you've been flying sounds pretty brave... or not.  :D


Warning! I don't have any idea of what I'm talking about :)

Is a Piper Cub's Never exceed 120?


I'm sure they have/can on the right day, but how many people would recommend doing 60 in a radio flyer down Deadman's Hill regularly?   :devil