Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CAP1 on December 17, 2011, 06:16:06 PM
-
sort of.
they're ressurecting the COPO name. they're finally going to try to match the cobrajets, and mopars drag packs.
funny thing is that mopar's using the v-10 viper engine, and chevy's using either a 427....which is funny after their ceo? i think it was claimed that "the there's no replacement for displacement days are over", that they'd use such a large engine......or they're using a supercharged 327. alll these cubic inches chasing after supercharged 5.4 and 5.0 liters.
either way, it's good to see these horsepower wars going on. i kinda hate to say it, but the camaro looks kinda silly with that cowl induction hood.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/16/chevy-releases-copo-camaro-concept-drag-racing-featurette/#continued
-
either way, it's good to see these horsepower wars going on.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/16/chevy-releases-copo-camaro-concept-drag-racing-featurette/#continued
I never thought we would see factory HP wars again.
If you can afford it this is a great time to be an auto enthusiast.
-
I agree .
-
It sure looks more serious than some of the other camaros.
I'm just hoping they can come up with a more modern (ie. lighter) RWD chassis by the time I need to replace my G8. The biggest problem with the G8 and Camaro are that they're pretty dang heavy. They handle great and are built to take huge power, but they just weigh too dang much.
I want chebby to release a 4-door rwd sedan with the camaro motors, maybe even one with the collapsable lifters the G8 GT has, but tuned properly this time. Of course, the GM CEO said "why would I do that, since I have all these really nice FWD sedans already?", so that loser just doesn't get it. They have a line of crappy sedans and coupes that are FWD and can't hold a candle to the latest hondas, toyotas, hyundais, mazda, etc. They need to take the idea behind the G8, style it for chebby buyers, and REALLY update it this time with gps navigation, bluetooth in all models, etc.
As it is, I just don't see myself replacing my G8 with anything American. The taurus SHO is awesome but it also costs as much as 5 series BMW, a nice Acura, infiniti, or Lexus. Even the nissan maxima comes with what is essentially the 350Z motor (a modern 290 hp 3.5L V6) and performance chassis tuning that is head and shoulders above anything that GM makes.
-
I never thought we would see factory HP wars again.
If you can afford it this is a great time to be an auto enthusiast.
yep. that was my point. now all of the "big three" will have "factory" hot rods to run, even if one of em isn't american. :aok
-
It sure looks more serious than some of the other camaros.
I'm just hoping they can come up with a more modern (ie. lighter) RWD chassis by the time I need to replace my G8. The biggest problem with the G8 and Camaro are that they're pretty dang heavy. They handle great and are built to take huge power, but they just weigh too dang much.
I want chebby to release a 4-door rwd sedan with the camaro motors, maybe even one with the collapsable lifters the G8 GT has, but tuned properly this time. Of course, the GM CEO said "why would I do that, since I have all these really nice FWD sedans already?", so that loser just doesn't get it. They have a line of crappy sedans and coupes that are FWD and can't hold a candle to the latest hondas, toyotas, hyundais, mazda, etc. They need to take the idea behind the G8, style it for chebby buyers, and REALLY update it this time with gps navigation, bluetooth in all models, etc.
As it is, I just don't see myself replacing my G8 with anything American. The taurus SHO is awesome but it also costs as much as 5 series BMW, a nice Acura, infiniti, or Lexus. Even the nissan maxima comes with what is essentially the 350Z motor (a modern 290 hp 3.5L V6) and performance chassis tuning that is head and shoulders above anything that GM makes.
i actually liked the last incarnation of the rear wheel drive caprice. it was reasonably fast for a big fat heavy car, and handled pretty nicely. i also liked the crown vics, and the mercury marauders. again, big and fat, but good handling, and much more than reasonably quick, in the case of the marauder.
considering that the current sports cars are nearly the same size, it should in theory be somewhat easy for them to make a nice 4 door sedan.
there's some funny stuff coming from Al Oppenheiser too.
such as:
The Mustang has been playing catch up since the moment the fifth-gen Camaro arrived in 2009.
now that there is just plain funny.
or this:
It is no coincidence that Mustang has introduced three 100-horsepower increases to keep pace with Camaro: First their V-6 was bumped to 305; then their V-8 went to 412, and now the GT500.
this is somewhat bass ackwards. more like since the camaro played catchup, ford's just putting themselves out front again.
or this:
The days of “no replacement for displacement,” are over, and it’s not enough to be fast in a straight line
that one made me :rofl :rofl :rofl. that statement came from a guy that's pumping a car that's getting spanked all over the road courses by cars with much smaller engines.....so, apparently they believe that they need bigger displacement. :rofl
and this one also made me :rofl :rofl :rofl
For Mustang fans, you’re welcome. Clearly the Camaro has encouraged Ford to throw everything they can at us.
so they took an australian car, took technology from the corvette, and from the cadillac cts-v, re-did the engine, etc....basically threw everything they had at ford, and then tried to tell mustang fans that we should thank chevy? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :rofl :rofl :rofl
this guy is actually deluded enough that he should run for the oval office. :rofl :noid :rofl :rofl
-
Australian truck, Cap. Truck. :)
-
It sure looks more serious than some of the other camaros.
I'm just hoping they can come up with a more modern (ie. lighter) RWD chassis by the time I need to replace my G8. The biggest problem with the G8 and Camaro are that they're pretty dang heavy. They handle great and are built to take huge power, but they just weigh too dang much.
I want chebby to release a 4-door rwd sedan with the camaro motors, maybe even one with the collapsable lifters the G8 GT has, but tuned properly this time. Of course, the GM CEO said "why would I do that, since I have all these really nice FWD sedans already?", so that loser just doesn't get it. They have a line of crappy sedans and coupes that are FWD and can't hold a candle to the latest hondas, toyotas, hyundais, mazda, etc. They need to take the idea behind the G8, style it for chebby buyers, and REALLY update it this time with gps navigation, bluetooth in all models, etc.
As it is, I just don't see myself replacing my G8 with anything American. The taurus SHO is awesome but it also costs as much as 5 series BMW, a nice Acura, infiniti, or Lexus. Even the nissan maxima comes with what is essentially the 350Z motor (a modern 290 hp 3.5L V6) and performance chassis tuning that is head and shoulders above anything that GM makes.
Just wait till you see the new Impala. I'm hearing rumors of an SS model that sounds just like what you're looking for. Caddy chassis, possibly CTS-V clone in the SS trim... Gotta wait and see, but it'd be pretty awesome.
-
Just wait till you see the new Impala. I'm hearing rumors of an SS model that sounds just like what you're looking for. Caddy chassis, possibly CTS-V clone in the SS trim... Gotta wait and see, but it'd be pretty awesome.
I'll believe it when I see it :) Still, I'm pretty happy with my G8 and the stupidly low price I paid for it pretty much means I'd be an idiot to try to replace it anytime soon.
-
I'll believe it when I see it :) Still, I'm pretty happy with my G8 and the stupidly low price I paid for it pretty much means I'd be an idiot to try to replace it anytime soon.
there's no reason ever to get rid of something you're happy with.....unless something shinier catches yer eye. :D
if chevy does the impala thing, i don't think it'll be a cts-v clone.....that'd make it too expensive. they'd need to keep it in the ballpark of the camaros and mustangs.
-
Yay. Another poor handling cheap plastic car that the Asian and Eurpoean makers will trounce with half the engine and twice the build quality.
Bob
-
Yay. Another poor handling cheap plastic car that the Asian and Eurpoean makers will trounce with half the engine and twice the build quality.
Bob
pay attention son. it's a dragster. it's not a street car. show me a 8 or 9 second euroturd.
-
pay attention son. it's a dragster. it's not a street car. show me a 8 or 9 second euroturd.
"
My bad. Can't tell much on work computer, pics and such don't show. But we do excel in building an expensive straight line car for sure. Though there are countless choices to give you the 8 or 9 second quarter, but I can't find the price to do a reasonable turd to turd comparo. :D
My initial reaction was the thoughts of these attempts in the '80's with camaro and mustang duking it out for the quarter mile street car power and some VW dfolks thoiught making the GTI quicker than them all was a fun thing.
I truly love racing that happens on a road course. The rest is just entertainment.
Bob
-
Yay. Another poor handling cheap plastic car that the Asian and Eurpoean makers will trounce with half the engine and twice the build quality.
Bob
hehe you don't get out much do you. :)
-
"
My bad. Can't tell much on work computer, pics and such don't show. But we do excel in building an expensive straight line car for sure. Though there are countless choices to give you the 8 or 9 second quarter, but I can't find the price to do a reasonable turd to turd comparo. :D
My initial reaction was the thoughts of these attempts in the '80's with camaro and mustang duking it out for the quarter mile street car power and some VW dfolks thoiught making the GTI quicker than them all was a fun thing.
I truly love racing that happens on a road course. The rest is just entertainment.
Bob
that's been going on a lot longer than the 80's. as for the mustang/camaro, it started in the 60's. mustang in 64 1/2. camaro came out in 67, and has been chasing after its big brother(the mustang) ever since.
for street 1/4 mile, the mustang is quicker, but not by much. if you pulled 2 guys from the street, and put one in each car, the better driver's gonna come out out front regardless of which car he's in. now, put professional drivers in em, and the mustang will be out front every time.
this COPO camaro is in answer to the cobrajet mustang. depending on which supercharger you opt for, the cobrajet runs from $80k to $90k. it only comes with a racing automatic, and regardless of supercharger, it uses a 5.4 liter. those will run anywhere from 9.90's down to mid 8 second 1/4 mile times. for 2013 ford's building a 5 liter cobrajet, but i've not seen prices or times on that one yet.
the link i had put up doesn't make it clear if the copo camaro is built inhouse or not.....if judged by their continental tire challenge cars, i'd say it's not. the cobrajet(with exception of the rollcage) is built entirely at fords plant. by hand. they also kept mum on the times that this camaro can run. it's gotta be at least close to the fords. the big difference, is that what ford does with a 5.4 liter, they're using a 7 liter for. i think it's a 7 liter anyway? 427 ci. kinda funny coming from a company that tried to say that there is replacement for displacement, huh?
for the street version of the mustangs........dollar for dollar, buying a brand new car, you cannot match them in any way shape or form. they are(right now anyway) the best "bang for the buck" on the street. they compete with cars that they shouldn't be able to touch. but then again....they ARE fords after all. :aok
-
hehe you don't get out much do you. :)
well, he may have a point with the engine. 6.2 liter, and it still can't handle a 5 liter. :devil :neener:
-
how many cobrajets do they sell?
-
See Rule #6
-
how many cobrajets do they sell?
they're limited production. they build and sell 50 a year. if i'm not mistaken, there is a waiting list for them.
-
The 427 from chevy is a nice engine. We now have several in the club just over 1000 RWHP.
-
The 427 from chevy is a nice engine. We now have several in the club just over 1000 RWHP.
well then al opeenhiemer better stop making comments about replacement for displacement. apparently he thinks there isn't. ford on the other hand....... :devil
-
They are not making any bigger engines.
-
They are not making any bigger engines.
they're using 378 and 427 cubic inch engines to try to compete with 302 and 330 cubic inch engines.
-
I'd say its about time ford stepped up to the plate. When the camaro came out in 2009 the v6 model had 300hp the 2009 mustang gt had 300hp. :banana:
-
my measly lil 330CI 5.4 Triton with 310 horsepower and 365 lb/ft of torque before the chip is now 385hp and around 450 lb/ft torque now after the chip, truck weighs 6450 lbs loaded with work stuff, awesome power and torque and around 22 to 23 MPG
-
I'd say its about time ford stepped up to the plate. When the camaro came out in 2009 the v6 model had 300hp the 2009 mustang gt had 300hp. :banana:
uummm...ford stepped up to the plate over 45 years ago. if it weren't for ford, there'd be no camaro. :aok
-
uummm...ford stepped up to the plate over 45 years ago. if it weren't for ford, there'd be no camaro. :aok
last time i checked CAP it was Chevy who began the American sports/muscle car race with the stingray in '63 :aok
ya know... when the corvette had 360BHP in 63 and 375 in 64 before the mustang 1964 1/2 showed up? granted ill take a mustang over camaro but corvette always over the stang CAP. always :aok
ohh did i mention ill take the Porsche911GT3, my dream car over all of these in a heartbeat (so much for Euroturds) :lol
-
last time i checked CAP it was Chevy who began the American sports/muscle car race with the stingray in '63 :aok
ya know... when the corvette had 360BHP in 63 and 375 in 64 before the mustang 1964 1/2 showed up? granted ill take a mustang over camaro but corvette always over the stang CAP. always :aok
ohh did i mention ill take the Porsche911GT3, my dream car over all of these in a heartbeat (so much for Euroturds) :lol
i've left the vette outta this, 'cause it's in a class it's own. the mustang was never intended to compete with the corvette....although todays mustang will sure open some vette owners eyes.
-
uummm...ford stepped up to the plate over 45 years ago. if it weren't for ford, there'd be no camaro. :aok
That's a pretty weak argument considering your thread is about current vehicle models not 50+ year old cars.
-
i've left the vette outta this, 'cause it's in a class it's own. the mustang was never intended to compete with the corvette....although todays mustang will sure open some vette owners eyes.
depends on the vette nowadays. ill never even think of owning a stock regular meant for the average guy. either its a 60's vette or a Z06 or ZR1...
too bad dodge shut the viper down a few years ago :(
-
Viper may make a comeback, I just read somewhere.
I am very happy with my 1962 360HP 327 FI Vette. Roman Red, black interior, white soft top, red hardtop, 4:11 Posi, 4 speed and still the most consistant fun I have ever had with my clothes on.
Wife thinks her 63 Stingray Roadster is hot (pumped up and built 327 also 4 speed and positrack), but she has never beaten my time at an autocross or drag race. :D
Never owned a Pony, but have appreciated many I have seen over the years.
-
I'd say its about time ford stepped up to the plate. When the camaro came out in 2009 the v6 model had 300hp the 2009 mustang gt had 300hp. :banana:
There was no 2009 Camaro.
And last I checked the V6 stang DOES have a 300+ BHP V6.
-
There was no 2009 Camaro.
And last I checked the V6 stang DOES have a 300+ BHP V6.
the 2009 was actually released as a 2010 model. even so the 2010 gt had 315hp. and yes the mustang now finally stepped up to the plate and the v6 now has 300. My point being it isn't Chevy who is trying to catch up. Its ford.
-
the 2009 was actually released as a 2010 model. even so the 2010 gt had 315hp. and yes the mustang now finally stepped up to the plate and the v6 now has 300. My point being it isn't Chevy who is trying to catch up. Its ford.
The mustang is lighter, faster, more powerful and handles better, a LOT better. Who's ahead?
-
The mustang is lighter, faster, more powerful and handles better, a LOT better. Who's ahead?
not to mention that new engine theyre using now for the GTs are well... beautiful :) testing by Ford to be 412HP but other tests saying up to 435HP? as a standard engine in the GT? :ahand even then the V6 in the 2011 still has a decent 305HP
-
4..4........4.........427! WTFG Chevy
now bring back oldsmobile and the 442/cutlass and ill be insanly happy....how i would love to see the words "455" on the side of a new car.
EDIT: chevy being non american???? why? becuase the person who founded them is french? guess ford is a german company because hennry ford is german.
-
That's a pretty weak argument considering your thread is about current vehicle models not 50+ year old cars.
actually my thread is about chevy finally bringing somethign to compete with the cobrajet.
now, if you wanna compare the vette to the mustang........a base corvette owner will find himself somewhat embarrassed against a gt. in the twisties, or the straights.
-
depends on the vette nowadays. ill never even think of owning a stock regular meant for the average guy. either its a 60's vette or a Z06 or ZR1...
too bad dodge shut the viper down a few years ago :(
yea, that i think was a mistake on dodges part. perhaps they did it to free up the engines to install in their drag pack challenger(which uses this engine), which is again something with a pretty dam big engine going after something with only a 330ci. :aok
-
There was no 2009 Camaro.
And last I checked the V6 stang DOES have a 300+ BHP V6.
he was referencing the 09 mustang. it still had the truck 4 liter in it back then, as the 3.7 was still in development/testing. when ford dropped that 3.7 into the 'stang, it forced chevy to step up again. to still be 2nd. :noid
-
the 2009 was actually released as a 2010 model. even so the 2010 gt had 315hp. and yes the mustang now finally stepped up to the plate and the v6 now has 300. My point being it isn't Chevy who is trying to catch up. Its ford.
dude......the camaro's been playing catch up for over 40 years.
in 2010, the 5 liter was in testing......on race tracks, before being released. the 4.6 liter was never released in normal production with high horsepower, although they could have. i really don't know why they didn't. but the fact is that the 5 liter was on the tracks hammering nearly everything out there, living all day at 6k to 8k rpm. now it's on the streets. the 3.7 liter i think was still being tested too.
so....we have a 5 liter mustang that easily out runs the 6.2 liter camaro, and it gets better gas mileage. it will out turn the camaro too. then we have the 3.7 liter mustang that will also easily out run the 3.6 liter camaro, while still out turning it. seems like ford's out front to me. makes it hard to "catch up", if you're out front, eh? oh yea.....the so called power increase for 2011 from 300hp to 312 on the camaro? it's a numbers game. nothing was changed, except the numbers and where they read them from.
-
not to mention that new engine theyre using now for the GTs are well... beautiful :) testing by Ford to be 412HP but other tests saying up to 435HP? as a standard engine in the GT? :ahand even then the V6 in the 2011 still has a decent 305HP
the v6 mustangs have been clocked in the 13's too. which(once again) makes even them faster than about 90% of the regular production hot rods from yesteryear.
-
4..4........4.........427! WTFG Chevy
now bring back oldsmobile and the 442/cutlass and ill be insanly happy....how i would love to see the words "455" on the side of a new car.
EDIT: chevy being non american???? why? becuase the person who founded them is french? guess ford is a german company because hennry ford is german.
never said chevy wasn't american. the camaro isn't though.
-
never said chevy wasn't american. the camaro isn't though.
GM has gone 'down unda' for most of it's performance cars, corvette being the biggest exception. Camaro, CTS and the GTO were all based on Aussie platforms.
-
GM has gone 'down unda' for most of it's performance cars, corvette being the biggest exception. Camaro, CTS and the GTO were all based on Aussie platforms.
I KNEW THE goat and camaro were......i had only suspected the cts
-
Quantity of posts will never spin wrong to correct.
-
corvette vs mustang.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVttiigJtxY&feature=related
and car and driver lapping vir in just over 3 minutes.......which is pretty dam good for a car with a "whacking great girder" for rear suspension. also take note that the g-meter hits 1.14 a couple of times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsDKVJa6aYM
-
The Camaro was faster and had more HP than the Mustang from 1967 to 1970. The 67 SS 350 Camaro out ran any small block Mustang built to that year. Ford attempted a response with the 390, and the 396/375 stomped it without mercy, then did the same for the various 428 versions. The 67 302 Chevy in the Z-28 trounced Ford's 302 powered Mustangs from 1967 thru 1969, including Dave and Ben Wentzel's win in Stock Eliminator at the U.S. Nationals in their 67 Z-28, which won again over 40 years later, while still owned and driven by the Wentzel's. Ford eventually stepped up with the "Boss" 302, which made something of a decent race engine, provided it lived a while. In 1969, Chevrolet introduced two 427 Camaros, COPO 9560 and COPO 9561, the legendary 427-425HP iron block, and the awe inspiring 427-430HP ZL-1. Those two cars soundly thrashed anything Ford ever put in a Mustang, up to and including the Boss 429.
Finally, 40 years later, in order to break the stranglehold of the Camaro in the muscle car world, Ford paid NHRA a large fee, and gave them a fleet of support vehicles, in exchange for which, NHRA fundamentally changed the rules of Stock Eliminator. In the past, it was a requirement that 50 cars be built on the production line, and sold to the general public for street use with Federal certification allowing them to be sold, licensed, registered, and insured for street use. That rule was changed in 2008 in order to allow Ford to race the Cobra Jet series of Mustangs. These are not factory built cars, they are not legal for street use.
So, Ford now had "factory race cars" which were actually assembled off site. Some are even "paper cars", cars and engines which have never actually been produced or built by Ford or any company that contracts for Ford.
Interesting that all the talk about "no replacement for displacement" is bandied about. Especially since NHRA has allowed Ford to enter both 352 and 428 Windsor based stoker engines which Ford does not now and never has produced at all in Stock Eliminator. These are engines which never existed at all, never mind actually being installed in a Ford Mustang produced by Ford or a Ford sub contractor. You cannot even open the "Ford Motorsports" catalog and find such an engine, it does not even exist on paper in the catalog. Ford has not produced a Windsor engine in a Mustang in a long time.
It took Ford 40 years to "catch" the Camaro in the muscle car wars, they have never eclipsed the 302 Z-28, the 350 LT-1, the 396-375, the L-72 427-425, nor the ZL-1 427-430 with any sort of comparable factory produced Mustang and engine. Never. To this day, the 67-72 Camaro holds more records, and has more wins in class eliminations, more LODRS event wins, more National Event wins, and more championships in Stock and Super Stock than all Mustangs from 64-1/2 to date. All of this was done with production Camaros, built right on the factory assembly line, with parts anyone could buy, Camaros sold to the general public and certified legal for street use in both safety and emissions. No custom built paper race cars were required in order for the Camaro to completely dominated the muscle car wars. Ford cannot say the same.
It is also interesting to note that Ford steadfastly refuses to forward NHRA any specifications for ANY production Mustang. No street legal 2008 or newer Mustang is certified for NHRA Stock or Super Stock competition by Ford, as they fear it will not be competitive. Any 2008 or newer Mustang that is raced in NHRA Stock or Super Stock must be a "paper race car" that was never actually produced by Ford and sold to the general public for street use.
Yes, one company and their "pony car" has been playing "catch up" for around 44 years. But it ain't Chevrolet and it ain't the Camaro.
-
CAP1, as much as I like Ford, Virgil hits most of the low points Ford had against the Camaro. There are a couple of nits in there, but nothing major. It was a bit more back and forth than Virgil has stated, but not enough off the mark to fuss about.
-
I'd say its about time ford stepped up to the plate. When the camaro came out in 2009 the v6 model had 300hp the 2009 mustang gt had 300hp. :banana:
The 2010 V6 Camaro has about 2 less HP than the same year mustang GT.
-
if you do a search through these forums, you'll find the link to 1/4 mile times back nito the 60's. there's almost always been a faster mustang than camaro.
and yes, with the exception of the rollcage, the cobrajet is indeed a factory built race car. i forget who welds thwe cage in, but it is then returned to the auto alliance plant and hand built.
did ford also pay off grand am to allow them to beat chevy there too?
ford easily took the trans am back with the boss302 in 1970, after chevy had it for only 2 years, after which they backed out of racing for awhile.
-
Well, Ford replied to the 1967 Camaro SS, which was equipped with the 295/350, with the 390 FE engine in the Mustang. For a brief period maybe, the 390 Mustang held some advantage, although the FE has a ton of problems. Chevy replied with the 396-375. It was a 4 speed only combination in 1967 and most of 1968. But even the 428 Super Cobra Jet could not beat the 396-375, which was soon equipped with the L-89 aluminum cylinder head option, that helped with traction. The 396 engines, for a period of time experience some small amount of main bearing problems. Those were inconsequential when compared to the number of connecting rods which were exiting the Ford FE engines.
The advent of the 427 engines in the Camaro in 1969 meant the end for any sort of Mustang win in the big block wars. Some 1200 of the L-72 427-425 all iron big blocks were produced, the engine had been in Corvettes and Impalas since 1966-67, and was put in Camaros and Chevelles in 1969. It was a rock solid engine that Ford was constantly struggling to compete with. Although Ford had a 427 FE, in varying forms, it was never a factory Mustang engine, and again, suffered from the normal FE problems of connecting rod and valvetrain life, as well as introducing a new problem, cylinder wall failure. The other Chevy 427, the ZL-1, was an all aluminum version of the vaunted L-88 engine from the 1967 Corvette. It also featured a bigger carburetor, higher compression, and a camshaft with more duration and lift. Only 69 ZL-1 Camaros were produced, but not even the Boss 429, introduced years later, was any real competition.
In 1967, in order to race the Trans Am series, Vince Piggins put a 283 in a 327 block, something hot rodders had in effect been doing for years by boring a 283 0125" over, and created the 302 Z-28 engine. The Chevy 302 was "the little engine that could", and easily out ran the Ford Windsor 289, which was in fact designed long after the small block Chevy, and even beat the Windsor based 302 handily. That Chevy 302 was the basis of the Z-28 option. In 1967, brothers Dave and Ben Wentzel took their 1967 Z-28 to the U.S. Nationals in Indy, the largest drag race in the world. At the time, you had to win your class over the weekend in order to even compete in the final eliminations. The Wentzel brothers did just that, putting their Camaro in the winner's circle. The Z-28 was equally successful in the Trans Am series it was built for.
Chevrolet also produced a widely varied series of 327 and 350 small blocks, from the mild 275/327, up to the strongest small block Chevy, the 370/350 LT-1, which actually produced more torque than the old 375/327 fuel injected Corvette engine. Oddly enough, the only real performance 327 not sold in the Camaro was the L-79 350/327, which was actually removed from the Chevy II line for 1967, to prevent it from stealing any "thunder" from the new for 1967 350 engines. The 66 Chevy II 350/327 had actually been beating up on the vaunted Hemi Belvedere the year before.
The dominance of the Camaro in both Stock and Super Stock is actually what led to the eventual creation of the Pro Stock series. The first Pro Stock races were actually match races featuring Chevrolet legend Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins in his line of 1st generation Camaros carrying the "Grumpy's Toy" moniker.
-
CAP, I was racing my Mustang (289) in those days. Always hated it when a Camaro pulled up next to me. Fortunately, it would take a while for the Chevy folks to realize they had to pin the inserts when running high pressure oil pumps or the engines would spin them.
Won a number of races due to spun inserts in the Chevy small block.
Back in those days, Ford had nothing in the big block arena to compete against Chevy and really had nothing in the large small block either.
My Uncle and I had a 69 390 Mustang we raced and it kicked butt for four seasons. Never had a problem with it. It could pull the front end of the Mustang a couple of feet. My Dad also raced a 390 in his Falcon. Scary fast as it was lighter than the Mustang. Never had any issues withit either.
It really went back and forth, if you look at the timeline of what came out and when. Neither company held a firm lead for a very long period of time, at least in the 60's.
-
the camaro didn't win the trans am championship till 68. it repeated in 69, and ford took it back in 70.
-
CAP, I was racing my Mustang in those days. Always hated it when a Camaro pulled up next to me. Fortunately, it would take a while for the Chevy folks to realize they had to pin the inserts when running high pressure oil pumps or the engines would spin them.
Won a number of races due to spun inserts in the Chevy small block.
Back in those days, Ford had nothing in the big block arena to compete against Chevy and really had nothing in the large small block either.
It really went back and forth, if you look at the timeline of what came out and when. Neither company held a firm lead for a very long period of time, at least in the 60's.
i wasn/'t old enough to be racing when they were new, so i can only go on what i hear from friends(most of my friends are much older then i am), and what i read about those vehicles.
when i used to run my 67 mustang, i lost a lot to pretty much everything, as it was a stock 289 2v with a 2.78 rear. when i ran my 83 5 liter, as slow as it was stock, there were 3 types of cars at the track on street nights.....mustangs camaros, and grand nationals.
stock to stock, i never worried about the camaros. never lost to one, unless i blew a shift. the grand nationals, i learned to keep an eye on. if the driver knew enough to cool it down between rounds, i knew i'd be losing that run. those things were quick.
with my 89gt, same thing....stock to stock, never lost to a camaro of its generation. modification for modification the same held true for both the 83 and 89.
i had driven a 69 camaro with the 302 virg mentions. i friggin love that engine. if i had the chance, and could afford it, i'd buy one of those in a heartbeat.
going away from the mustang/camaro.......most of my friends have always been big block people. not a single one of em ever had problems with their fe blocks. unless you count breaking transmissions and blowing chunks out the back of 9" rears. 390's 427's were their favorites. daves 58 fairlane with the 390 was the quickest i think, running 10's in street trim.
as for your last statement? that was true, and i think still is. i put these up "busting nuts". some people tend to take them a little too seriously though. :devil
the difference with me, is that it doesn't matter what it says on the valve cover.....if i like it, i'm gonna buy it. i've had fords, chevys, dodges, plymouths, and some japanese junk.
-
if you do a search through these forums, you'll find the link to 1/4 mile times back nito the 60's. there's almost always been a faster mustang than camaro.
and yes, with the exception of the rollcage, the cobrajet is indeed a factory built race car. i forget who welds thwe cage in, but it is then returned to the auto alliance plant and hand built.
did ford also pay off grand am to allow them to beat chevy there too?
ford easily took the trans am back with the boss302 in 1970, after chevy had it for only 2 years, after which they backed out of racing for awhile.
Sure, you'll find magazine tests with Mustangs claiming low ET's. That sort of thing was common. The fact remains, Chevrolet and the Camaro were dominant in the win column, when it came down to winning races where all conditions were the same, and you actually had to pass a tear down check for adherence to factory specifications. The Camaro was dominant, on the track and on the street, plain and simple.
The Cobra Jet is a completely bogus car. The whole thing was done outside the Ford factory, as much by Roush as anyone. The fact remains, in order to unseat 40 year old Camaros, Ford had to not only buy new rules for the class, they had to have someone else build them a car. To out run an old cast iron 427 big block with a cam in the block and a 780 vacuum secondary Holley 4 barrel, Ford had to put a blower made for a 7.0 liter engine on an all aluminum 4.6 liter engine with over head cams and EFI. It also took them 40 years to do it. Hardly a case of Chevy and the Camaro chasing Ford and the Mustang.
I've actually had my hands on a Ford Cobra Jet Mustang race car. Ford for all intents and purposes pays for what amounts to outside special labor. Guys paid $60K to $80K for a car that needed another $10K worth of work just to get down the track. Having seen the Ford program first hand and up close, it is really sort of laughable. Sure, they can outrun the two ancient archaic 69 Camaros we race in Stock and Super Stock. Considering what Ford spent, what they charge, and what it costs to finish the bogus paper cars, they're good for a laugh.
Chevrolet came in and cleaned up in Trans Am, proving what they set out to prove. In order to get something to compete with the 302 in the Z-28, Ford had to cross breed the 302 Windsor with the 351 Cleveland. The result was an engine that was expensive, and a nightmare to maintain and drive. Chevrolet had the 302 that remained unchanged from its original configuration from 1967, it was cheap, reliable, easy to maintain, and easy to drive. It was just as good on the street as it was on the race track. And really, once again, Chevrolet had the Z-28 in 1967, it took Ford until 1970 to create their cross bred Boss 302 to catch the 67 302 Z-28. That's 3 years. Catch up, indeed.
I don't pay too much attention to Grand Am. It is interesting to note, however, that Roush and Ford struggled for years to buy IMSA and SCCA success, and eventually Roush took his whining and exorbitant budget elsewhere in search of a series where they could buy and whine their way to dominance.
-
cobrajet engines are handbuilt at ford.
http://fordracingparts.com/announcements/news106.asp
the cars themselves are built at the auto alliance plant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeNLm5FzsDw&hd=1
http://www.fordracingparts.com/mustang/Gallery_33.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH2CAjtuaNg
-
well... im out of this conversation... carry on gentlemen... :joystick:
-
The 2010 V6 Camaro has about 2 less HP than the same year mustang GT.
how about now?
-
I don't pay too much attention to Junior Varsity Racing.
Fixed that for ya. :D
When Ford shows back up in the Big Leagues and runs an ALMS GT car against something other than small privateer teams, I'll be impressed. :aok
-
Fixed that for ya. :D
When Ford shows back up in the Big Leagues and runs an ALMS GT car against something other than small privateer teams, I'll be impressed. :aok
chevy audi and bmw are small?
-
Even with all the money they've spent, they can only buy the rules in NHRA. They've won maybe a couple of national events. They hold a few records, and they've managed to win class eliminations when faced with 40 year old cars with honest factors. But they can't consistently win events, and can't come close to a championship in any class. Well, except Funny Car, with aftermarket Chrysler Hemi power. They've struggled so long and fared so poorly they've pulled support for Pro Stock, again.
They did succeed in buying themselves some new classes in Stock and Super Stock, to allow their paper race cars with bogus factors to continue to compete.
There are some really good people racing the Cobra Jets, genuinely nice people. But the cars and their factors are so bogus that no one really gives them any credence.
In the end, they've done little or nothing for Ford sales. They don't have any championships. They've managed to screw up the rules for what was once a great class, just to get their bogus cars in. They've contributed to a shrinking car count at the races. They've even convinced people who have been hard working racers with legitimate combinations to park their cars and quit, or worse, sell their race cars.
The "factory race cars" are sort of cool. What they've done to the sport just plain sucks. They've ruined one of the last real honest classes where hard work was what made people fast and won races. Had they been truly interested in furthering the sport, as opposed to buying "performance", they'd have asked for their own classes, where they could show case their performance, and had a factory war. Instead, they actually have a factory war once a year, at the U.S. Nationals, the rest of the time, they're just wandering about. Now they've created serious safety issues to add to the other problems we already faced as class racers.
It is a shame what Ford, followed by Chrysler, and finally GM, have done to a once great sport. They had a great opportunity to do the right thing, helping themselves and the sport. Instead, they screwed the vast majority of racers and in the process, allowing their greedy desires to buy wins at any cost to do devastating damage to the sport. Those of us who remain cling to the hope that the sport survives the stupidity.
-
how about now?
2012 Camaro V6 is 323hp.
-
chevy audi and bmw are small?
manufacturers =/ teams
-
Virgil, you cannot lay all of that on Ford. GM has pulled its far share of shenanigans as well.
To say has never won much of anything is just wrong. When Ford was in Indy, GM did not even bother trying to compete. When Ford pulled out, and sold it all to Cosworth, Cosworth continued winning. Then GM finally stepped in. Even then they lost two years in a row to renegade Ford teams who had no factory support. Of course, Honda and Toyota own Indy now. It will be a while before any of them have the record Offenhauser had at Indy.
Truth is Ford has always been better at building road racing engines than at the quarter mile.
-
Virgil, you cannot lay all of that on Ford. GM has pulled its far share of shenanigans as well.
To say has never won much of anything is just wrong. When Ford was in Indy, GM did not even bother trying to compete. When Ford pulled out, and sold it all to Cosworth, Cosworth continued winning. Then GM finally stepped in. Even then they lost two years in a row to renegade Ford teams who had no factory support. Of course, Honda and Toyota own Indy now. It will be a while before any of them have the record Offenhauser had at Indy.
Truth is Ford has always been better at building road racing engines than at the quarter mile.
They DID do fairly well in 1994 winning half the races on the F1 shedule that year,and indeed they did well in the ! championship in general with Benetton. I think it was the Cosworth V8, but it was impressive what they were doing when everyone else had stepped to V10 and V12 power.
Bob
-
2012 Camaro V6 is 323hp.
was that a real hp increase, or more numbers juggling like the 300 to 312 increase was?
-
Even with all the money they've spent, they can only buy the rules in NHRA. They've won maybe a couple of national events. They hold a few records, and they've managed to win class eliminations when faced with 40 year old cars with honest factors. But they can't consistently win events, and can't come close to a championship in any class. Well, except Funny Car, with aftermarket Chrysler Hemi power. They've struggled so long and fared so poorly they've pulled support for Pro Stock, again.
They did succeed in buying themselves some new classes in Stock and Super Stock, to allow their paper race cars with bogus factors to continue to compete.
There are some really good people racing the Cobra Jets, genuinely nice people. But the cars and their factors are so bogus that no one really gives them any credence.
In the end, they've done little or nothing for Ford sales. They don't have any championships. They've managed to screw up the rules for what was once a great class, just to get their bogus cars in. They've contributed to a shrinking car count at the races. They've even convinced people who have been hard working racers with legitimate combinations to park their cars and quit, or worse, sell their race cars.
The "factory race cars" are sort of cool. What they've done to the sport just plain sucks. They've ruined one of the last real honest classes where hard work was what made people fast and won races. Had they been truly interested in furthering the sport, as opposed to buying "performance", they'd have asked for their own classes, where they could show case their performance, and had a factory war. Instead, they actually have a factory war once a year, at the U.S. Nationals, the rest of the time, they're just wandering about. Now they've created serious safety issues to add to the other problems we already faced as class racers.
It is a shame what Ford, followed by Chrysler, and finally GM, have done to a once great sport. They had a great opportunity to do the right thing, helping themselves and the sport. Instead, they screwed the vast majority of racers and in the process, allowing their greedy desires to buy wins at any cost to do devastating damage to the sport. Those of us who remain cling to the hope that the sport survives the stupidity.
see? i never got past bracket racing. mostly due to money. even in bracket racing, the systems on the cars are so effed up that in order to compete, you have to run the stuff you hate. like trans brakes and delay boxes.
as for them ruining the class.......nhra has to take at least half of the blame, as they didn't have to allow it. they could have said it's either "X" or you can go away.
-
Virgil, you cannot lay all of that on Ford. GM has pulled its far share of shenanigans as well.
To say has never won much of anything is just wrong. When Ford was in Indy, GM did not even bother trying to compete. When Ford pulled out, and sold it all to Cosworth, Cosworth continued winning. Then GM finally stepped in. Even then they lost two years in a row to renegade Ford teams who had no factory support. Of course, Honda and Toyota own Indy now. It will be a while before any of them have the record Offenhauser had at Indy.
Truth is Ford has always been better at building road racing engines than at the quarter mile.
Skuzzy, I can lay the current state of affairs in Stock and Super Stock directly at the feet of Ford. Since they began buying the rule book for both classes in 2008, when they became "the official vehicle of NHRA", the amount of damage done has been incredible. Their paid for change to the basic foundation of Stock Eliminator has altered the basic premise of the class completely. Stock Eliminator was based on the primary rule that above all else, any car that ran in Stock Eliminator must be a production car, street legal, sold in quantity to the general public, certified for use to the industry standards for safety and emissions. That rule was specifically written to prevent purpose built cars from being entered in the class. The entire idea was that anyone who wanted to could go down and buy a car just like they saw compete, and they could drive it home, with legal license plates and insurance. Special high dollar purpose built race cars were specifically excluded from the class, intentionally, as part of the main reason for the class.
What Ford did to the class has driven many long time competitors out of the class, it has shrunk the car count, and discouraged potential racers from getting in.
I can also say that through the years, Ford has lagged far enough behind Chevrolet in sportsman drag racing, and even with their new bought rule book, the best they can do is go fast in certain classes, and win very few races. Honestly, the same applies to sportsman stock car racing, or circle track racing, whichever you prefer. I've never seen a race track with entry level classes that specifically and strictly forbid Ford cars from competing. I have seen nearly a dozen such tracks and classes with rules that forbid Chevrolet cars from competing.
GM, for the most part, never saw much purpose in "Indy car" racing, and rightly so. The amount of return on the investment was and remains paltry. GM learned that lesson when they associated themselves with Roger Penske. They spent millions, and won races. But they never got the sales they got from just providing pace cars. The fact that Penske stuck the screws to them did not help.
GM has been the car to beat in NASCAR for most of the last 40 years, though during certain periods Ford and later Toyota did exhibit some real competition.
Honestly, in drag racing and stock car racing, Chevrolet has been the dominant force more often than not for the longest period of time in modern history. Both at the professional level and the sportsman level, Chevrolet, and not Ford, has won more races and more championships. Ford has had some great moments, and some great competitors. But Chevrolet has been in the winners circle and on the championship stage a lot more often.
-
Virgil, you cannot lay all of that on Ford. GM has pulled its far share of shenanigans as well.
To say has never won much of anything is just wrong. When Ford was in Indy, GM did not even bother trying to compete. When Ford pulled out, and sold it all to Cosworth, Cosworth continued winning. Then GM finally stepped in. Even then they lost two years in a row to renegade Ford teams who had no factory support. Of course, Honda and Toyota own Indy now. It will be a while before any of them have the record Offenhauser had at Indy.
Truth is Ford has always been better at building road racing engines than at the quarter mile.
i'll be doing some performance driving courses soon, and lapping my gt on both the thunderbolt and the lightning race courses down at milleville. she'll see the drag strip at least enough for me to see my mid 12's that i'm fairly confident she'll do in bone stock condition. then once i get the rust off, i figure low 12's. :aok
-
see? i never got past bracket racing. mostly due to money. even in bracket racing, the systems on the cars are so effed up that in order to compete, you have to run the stuff you hate. like trans brakes and delay boxes.
as for them ruining the class.......nhra has to take at least half of the blame, as they didn't have to allow it. they could have said it's either "X" or you can go away.
The ubiquitous big block Chevrolet, and the PowerGlide transmission for the most part dominate bracket racing. Add in those small block Chevy powered cars, and it's an even wider spread.
NHRA is absolutely at fault, their greed is no lesser a factor than Ford. They wanted the money Ford had, so they took it. They're absolutely willing co-conspirators.
We were actually on the list for the original Camaro Stock Eliminator program when it was first created to accompany the return of the Camaro. But it was NEVER anything like what you see now. We had asked for 3 engine packages that were to be production packages, what you'd see on the showroom floor. The idea was to have an affordable line of cars that did not have absurd options and prices. We had asked for 5.0, 5.7, and 7.0 liter engine packages, similar to the original Camaro line, in cars with very limited options and low curb weights. Real COPO cars, if you will. We wanted rubber floor mats, regular 16" wheels, manual windows, door locks, and seats, basic radios, and other cost/weight saving options. The idea was that we'd have cars that were affordable, and were good to race. Then of course the economic collapse came and ended the program.
As far as it goes, I'm not happy with GM over the new Camaro, but I can see where they felt it was necessary. It's just another car that real Stock Eliminator cars should not have to race.
We went to NHRA in 2008, and asked them to recreate the FX (Factory Experimental) classes as a stand alone class for the new "factory race cars". Complete with their own sub classes, indexes, HP factors, and safety rules. The idea was that Chevrolet, Ford, and Chrysler could have their cars racing each other on a weekly basis at every race, showcasing the factory efforts, without sticking the screws to the rest of the classes. Ford demanded they be allowed the dominant position in Stock and Super Stock. That was the end of that.
-
i would think chevys dominance in nascar started in.....what was it? late 50's early 60's? when they announced that they were pulling all sponsorship of racing? and the knuckleheads at ford jumped the gun, pullnig theirs? then chevy kept on going. that's how i believe holman-moody got their start. before that olds was the dominant gm, and even those were losing to studebakers, and hudsons.
drag racing, the best i can relate is my personal experiences, which i have. i shuold also add that when we were running the camaro, there was a certain mercury capri(drivin by a pretty cool dood) that for the life of me, i couldn't tune that 454 to beat. the guy was running a 460, with similar specifications to our camaro....and was nearly a half second faster.
indy car stuff.....good place to develop engine tech.
you left out road racing, where in the case of bmw and ford, you can call your dealer and order a race ready car. the camaros competing in those series do not leave chevy as race cars. that class is supposed to be production cars. i guess chevy must've bought the rule book in that series, eh? and they're still losing to smaller powerplants(both the beemers and fords run air intake restrictors, the chevy doesn't).
all in all, i'd like to be able to sit at dinner with some of you guys talking about this........virg masher, and skuzzy especially. would be some VERY interesting and enjoyable conversations i think.
-
GM has gone 'down unda' for most of it's performance cars, corvette being the biggest exception. Camaro, CTS and the GTO were all based on Aussie platforms.
supporting evedence?
and the corvett is ZR1 is the 4th fastest production car in the world
-
supporting evedence?
and the corvett is ZR1 is the 4th fastest production car in the world
Following the development of the Zeta architecture and because of its position as the GM global center of RWD development, GM Holden in Australia led the final design, engineering, and development of the Camaro.[24] However, the new Camaro will be produced at the Oshawa Car Assembly manufacturing plant in Canada.[25] 2,750 jobs would have been lost at the Oshawa manufacturing plant which had been originally scheduled to be closed in 2008; some of these jobs were saved due to the new Camaro's production.[26] This new product program and conversion of the Oshawa plant to a state of the art flexible manufacturing facility represented a US$740,000,000 investment.[27]
http://www.camarohomepage.com/holden/default.htm
-
all this ford-chevy talk is giving me a headache
MOPAR OR NOCAR
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/MOPAR/2885017893_e35d96e2b7.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/MOPAR/2885018063_d347c95597.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/MOPAR/113_0703_10_zdodge_challengerdick_landy.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/MOPAR/BP_DickLandy2.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/MOPAR/Challenger-Wheelie-Front.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/MOPAR/Zona1.jpg)<----Toughest car I ever owned/sat in.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/MOPAR/mopar-1.gif)
ahhhhh headache gone :D
-
a base corvette owner will find himself somewhat embarrassed against a gt. in the twisties, or the straights.
You are off your rocker. Put down the kool-aid you've had far too much.
-
You are off your rocker. Put down the kool-aid you've had far too much.
ya think?
corvette gs=$55k
0-60=4.4
1/4 mile=12.4
skidpad=.99
mustang gt=$35k
0-60=4.4
1/4 mile=12.7
skidpad=.96
those numbers are so close, that in real life, the driver will make the difference. the better driver will come out in front, regardless of which car he's in. more than likely, not a single one of us here(well..maybe rtholmes, and perhaps myself in a couple of months) has ever taken a car to .8g, much less get them into the .9 range, so again, the vette driver will be getting a rude awakening.
also reference the previous video with the stock gt hammering the stock vette on the strip.
i only used the grand sport, because i couldn't find specs on a plain old corvette. my understanding is that the grand sport is one up from that.
now, if ya want, i can put the boss302's numbers up against the same vette, seeing as the boss is one step up from the base performance mustang. and still cheaper. and much much quicker/faster/better cornering. :devil
vettes are in a class all their own. i know this. but to take a "cheap" car and bring it anywhere near that performance level is pretty darned good, no matter how ya look at it.
-
supporting evedence?
and the corvett is ZR1 is the 4th fastest production car in the world
The Camaro is a Holden Maloo. The GTO is a Monaro/ Vauxhall VXR. The CTS comes from the land down under as well. And I really really like the CTS-V. I've seen a few at the track and they're a darn impressive machine.
-
The Camaro is a Holden Maloo. The GTO is a Monaro/ Vauxhall VXR. The CTS comes from the land down under as well. And I really really like the CTS-V. I've seen a few at the track and they're a darn impressive machine.
there's been 2 cts-v's gasing up at the shop every couple days. pictures don't do them justice. they;'re actually kinda smurfy looking in pictures......but they're beautiful in real.
there was one that looked like a suv version of the cts-v in the other day.
-
supporting evedence?
and the corvett is ZR1 is the 4th fastest production car in the world
Dude the Corvette didnt even break into the top ten according to the 2011/2012 fastest production cars in the world.
http://www.thesupercars.org/fastest-cars/fastest-cars-in-the-world-top-10-list/ (http://www.thesupercars.org/fastest-cars/fastest-cars-in-the-world-top-10-list/)
you have a link showing the Corvettes claims?
-
Dude the Corvette didnt even break into the top ten according to the 2011/2012 fastest production cars in the world.
http://www.thesupercars.org/fastest-cars/fastest-cars-in-the-world-top-10-list/ (http://www.thesupercars.org/fastest-cars/fastest-cars-in-the-world-top-10-list/)
you have a link showing the Corvettes claims?
Production car is used extremely loosely in that list. How many would be on it, if it required more then 5k units total production.
:salute
BigRat
-
ya think?
corvette gs=$55k
0-60=4.4
1/4 mile=12.4
skidpad=.99
mustang gt=$35k
0-60=4.4
1/4 mile=12.7
skidpad=.96
those numbers are so close, that in real life, the driver will make the difference. the better driver will come out in front, regardless of which car he's in. more than likely, not a single one of us here(well..maybe rtholmes, and perhaps myself in a couple of months) has ever taken a car to .8g, much less get them into the .9 range, so again, the vette driver will be getting a rude awakening.
also reference the previous video with the stock gt hammering the stock vette on the strip.
i only used the grand sport, because i couldn't find specs on a plain old corvette. my understanding is that the grand sport is one up from that.
now, if ya want, i can put the boss302's numbers up against the same vette, seeing as the boss is one step up from the base performance mustang. and still cheaper. and much much quicker/faster/better cornering. :devil
vettes are in a class all their own. i know this. but to take a "cheap" car and bring it anywhere near that performance level is pretty darned good, no matter how ya look at it.
Ok, Im done with you magazine numbers guys. Might as well be arguing with an import guy. I have taken my 06 CTS-V to 1.02gs according to the onboard g-meter on long auto cross coarse that was really setup more like a short road coarse than a tight auto cross course. I didn't have a g-meter in my corvette though so I can't give you those numbers. I can however tell you that in my 2000 c5 hardtop i went 12.7@108 back to back and that car had a cold air intake and big heavy wheels and tires from a c6 (18ft-19rr as opposed to 17ft-19rr stock c5). That is with a 350hp corvette. In my 2002 Z06 with bolt ons ( headers, exhaust, cold air intake, tune) which put down 388rwhp on the dyno (similar numbers or lower than a new base c6 dynos they are 438fwhp) I went 12.07@116 with a slipping clutch. While drivers are going to definitely make a difference, you are looney if you really believe your new gt will outrun a new vette in anything, (2011vette vs 2011gt, not 1997 automatic vette vs 2011gt as you posted earlier).
-
Dude the Corvette didnt even break into the top ten according to the 2011/2012 fastest production cars in the world.
http://www.thesupercars.org/fastest-cars/fastest-cars-in-the-world-top-10-list/ (http://www.thesupercars.org/fastest-cars/fastest-cars-in-the-world-top-10-list/)
you have a link showing the Corvettes claims?
Buhwahahaha. Cars for idiots with more money than sense. Nothing on the list for less than $330K new, "base price", and none of those sold at "base price".
By that measure, you could call any race car produced by any factory a "production car".
Those cars are the laughing stock of the automotive world. Around 99% of them are owned by people who cannot drive them to 30% of their potential without wrecking them.
The best use for the cars on that list is that they make great posters to go on the bedroom walls of young teenage boys, right next to the posters of the "heart throb" Hollywood "starlets" they fantasize about like the cars.
Oh, and any car with more than 500HP at the flywheel will run 230MPH or more given the right set of gears.
-
Buhwahahaha. Cars for idiots with more money than sense.
several of those cars are worth considerably more now than when they were first sold. Paganis in particular are about the best investment out there. a piece of art you can enjoy and scare yourself in, and make better than FTSE 100 yields sounds like a very smart buy to me.
Oh, and any car with more than 500HP at the flywheel will run 230MPH or more given the right set of gears.
sure, in a vacuum ...
-
Ok, Im done with you magazine numbers guys. Might as well be arguing with an import guy. I have taken my 06 CTS-V to 1.02gs according to the onboard g-meter on long auto cross coarse that was really setup more like a short road coarse than a tight auto cross course. I didn't have a g-meter in my corvette though so I can't give you those numbers. I can however tell you that in my 2000 c5 hardtop i went 12.7@108 back to back and that car had a cold air intake and big heavy wheels and tires from a c6 (18ft-19rr as opposed to 17ft-19rr stock c5). That is with a 350hp corvette. In my 2002 Z06 with bolt ons ( headers, exhaust, cold air intake, tune) which put down 388rwhp on the dyno (similar numbers or lower than a new base c6 dynos they are 438fwhp) I went 12.07@116 with a slipping clutch. While drivers are going to definitely make a difference, you are looney if you really believe your new gt will outrun a new vette in anything, (2011vette vs 2011gt, not 1997 automatic vette vs 2011gt as you posted earlier).
first off.....bolded.....there's a mustang gt right about 300 yards from me that goes 11.5's with less than what you did there. they tuned the puter, and put drag radials on it. and that was with a 6 speed automatic.
i didn't quote a 97 vette.....unless i misread, which is highly possible by the time i get home. i'll re-check the link when i get home to that computer.
if you scroll up to the link of the gt running vir, you'll see it hit 1.14g on more than one occasion. i'll be sure to have a g-meter in my car in the spring when i start running her at milleville, and at the autocrosses down at the old bader field in atlantic city.
i know the actual numbers well enough without magazine help to know what is capable of what against what. the fact is that the most affordable base vette will have trouble with a gt. it will lose to a boss302, which still costs less. it will beat the current gt500 though, as that one's not as well balanced out as the gt or boss. and this is a car that was never intended to compete with the vette. and yes, i've driven them. in fact, now that i'm thinking about it, i gotta call my old boss......i KNOW he'll be up for bringing his down to milleville too. :aok
on a somewhat funny side note.......there's two of the "hotrod" jeep grand cherokees running around here, and a newer dodge charger. all of them have messed with me in the dakota. the jeeps got me, the charger couldn't quite cut it. not a single one of them has messed with me in the mustang yet.
-
Volume of posts does not make up for anything.
-
Buhwahahaha. Cars for idiots with more money than sense. Nothing on the list for less than $330K new, "base price", and none of those sold at "base price".
By that measure, you could call any race car produced by any factory a "production car".
Those cars are the laughing stock of the automotive world. Around 99% of them are owned by people who cannot drive them to 30% of their potential without wrecking them.
The best use for the cars on that list is that they make great posters to go on the bedroom walls of young teenage boys, right next to the posters of the "heart throb" Hollywood "starlets" they fantasize about like the cars.
Oh, and any car with more than 500HP at the flywheel will run 230MPH or more given the right set of gears.
it is true, "production car" is used too loosley. the boss302r is in fact a production car, as it is built(again with exception of the rollcage) at the ford autoalliance plant. you can order one, and go racing. just like the cobrajet. they're both production cars.i guess, technically speaking, the boss302 counts, seeing as there's 2 versions of that for sale on the street. honestly though, i don't think they should be considered as such, unless that same setup is built for sale and use on the street, at an affordable cost to the general public.
that takes the veyron, and that vector? thing out too, and many of those other "so-called" supercars.
-
Theres certainly a bunch of cars on that list which are more like prototypes or bespoke built cars, however some are genuine production cars evidenced by how many theyve sold:
300 Veyron
100 F1
280 XJ220
400 Enzo
imo anything which sells 3 figures counts as production :aok
-
Oh, and any car with more than 500HP at the flywheel will run 230MPH or more given the right set of gears.
Not a chance.
-
was that a real hp increase, or more numbers juggling like the 300 to 312 increase was?
Different engine in 2012.
2010 was rated at 304. In 2011 same engine was certified at 312.
-
Different engine in 2012.
2010 was rated at 304. In 2011 same engine was certified at 312.
yea, that was a "paper" increase for bragging rights.
-
yea, that was a "paper" increase for bragging rights.
With just a tune and nothing else you can add 13 rwhp to the 2010/2011. That aint too shabby.
Simply certified the 6. All hp ratings can be considered "paper" ratings till you actually dyno. Then you have what your car actually truely outputs.
-
With just a tune and nothing else you can add 13 rwhp to the 2010/2011. That aint too shabby.
Simply certified the 6. All hp ratings can be considered "paper" ratings till you actually dyno. Then you have what your car actually truely outputs.
they didn't tune it. they took the new reading from 100rpm higher, and the new torque reading from a little lower rpm.
-
enjoy that kool-aid cap. I'm out. Enjoy your mustang.
-
enjoy that kool-aid cap. I'm out. Enjoy your mustang.
dude...i wish you wouldn't take any of this too serious. i don't put these up here to piss anyone off, and that's how you sound. it generally stirs up some good conversation amongst car nuts. that's what i intend.
if any of what i'm sayin' is pissing ya off, i apologize, as i wasn't intending that.
-
not pissing me off at all. just realize you're set in your OPINION so no point in wasting my time :salute
-
they didn't tune it. they took the new reading from 100rpm higher, and the new torque reading from a little lower rpm.
I did not say they tuned the 2010 or 2011.
They simply certified it.
I was saying that with a tune you can pull 13 more RWHP. :)
Silver.. I like my koolaid in the form of a frozen margarita. :rofl
-
I did not say they tuned the 2010 or 2011.
They simply certified it.
I was saying that with a tune you can pull 13 more RWHP. :)
Silver.. I like my koolaid in the form of a frozen margarita. :rofl
there's only 1 night a year i touch alcohol anymore. that will be next saturday night.
-
Pewter, you just gotta take CAP for what he is, a Fanboi who will hunt high and low for one magazine review or test (almost 99% of the time a Ford or Mustang only magazine, too) with some super-inflated figures concerning the Mustang, and preach them from the mountain top as if they were gospel.
Fact is a base Corvette will destroy a GT in every way once you're doing anything other than a straight line, except price. But then again, the Vette is so far out of the Mustang's league it isn't funny.
<--- been there, raced that, have the trophies and championships.
-
MOTOR TREND.
Also note that i have previously mentioned i have owned chevys....and that the 400 that came out of my truck went into a friends camaro, and ran 12's all day long. and that the quickest/fastest car i own right now is a chevy.
sheesh, you guys gotta stop taking things so serious. :devil
-
umm .. base vette brand new is ~40k
http://www.kerbeck.com/
430hp, 3200 lbs, a bit more tire on the ground than ..well .. *any* comparable car out there until you get to 6 figures ..
..IMHO beatsa crap outta ownin a 2 door sedan with emblems on it (shelby what?)
-Frank aka GE
just sayin -tm Pasha
-
MOTOR TREND
...is known for exaggerated, inflated numbers and using manufacturer provided "ringers" in their tests.
The next best times I can find for the 5.0 GT by any other mag are a half second slower in both 0-60 and 1/4 mile times than MT's numbers.
However, the true test of a sports car is the road course......
C&D 2011 Lightning Lap (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2011-ndash-feature-ndash-car-and-driver-sortable-times-complete-lightning-lap-times-2006-to-2011-page-8)
The 2011 Mustang GT gets around VIR 0.9 sec faster than the Camaro SS (3:08.6 vs 3:09.5) although it is 10 seconds slower per lap than the most recently tested Corvette Grand Sport (2:58.5) and 7 sec a lap slower than the most recently tested "base" Corvette with the Z51 package (3:01.2). Heck, the Z51 Corvette beats the Shelby GT500 by almost 3 sec a lap, but for GT500 money you can buy a 2010 Corvette Z06 and whoop the GT500 by over 10 sec a lap. Then there's the ZR1, which NO Ford will ever touch, which strolls around VIR in 2:49.8 -bested only by 2 Moslers (Chevy powered, btw) and a Viper (can't buy one anymore cause nobody wanted 'em) ACR that required race tires to turn that time, unlike the ZR1 which was on streets.
I'll buy you a bottle of whatever you prefer if a Boss 302 in street trim can make up 7 or 10 seconds either the Corvette GS or Z51 at VIR. Heck, the BMW M3 coupe, Lexus IS-F, and Jag XKR all whooped up on that 5.0 Mustang at VIR. :rofl
-
...is known for exaggerated, inflated numbers and using manufacturer provided "ringers" in their tests.
The next best times I can find for the 5.0 GT by any other mag are a half second slower in both 0-60 and 1/4 mile times than MT's numbers.
However, the true test of a sports car is the road course......
C&D 2011 Lightning Lap (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2011-ndash-feature-ndash-car-and-driver-sortable-times-complete-lightning-lap-times-2006-to-2011-page-8)
The 2011 Mustang GT gets around VIR 0.9 sec faster than the Camaro SS (3:08.6 vs 3:09.5) although it is 10 seconds slower per lap than the most recently tested Corvette Grand Sport (2:58.5) and 7 sec a lap slower than the most recently tested "base" Corvette with the Z51 package (3:01.2). Heck, the Z51 Corvette beats the Shelby GT500 by almost 3 sec a lap, but for GT500 money you can buy a 2010 Corvette Z06 and whoop the GT500 by over 10 sec a lap. Then there's the ZR1, which NO Ford will ever touch, which strolls around VIR in 2:49.8 -bested only by 2 Moslers (Chevy powered, btw) and a Viper (can't buy one anymore cause nobody wanted 'em) ACR that required race tires to turn that time, unlike the ZR1 which was on streets.
I'll buy you a bottle of whatever you prefer if a Boss 302 in street trim can make up 7 or 10 seconds either the Corvette GS or Z51 at VIR. Heck, the BMW M3 coupe, Lexus IS-F, and Jag XKR all whooped up on that 5.0 Mustang at VIR. :rofl
so you're saying that their corvette numbers are exaggerated too?
i could've sworn i saw a gt500 lap in the mid to high 2's.....whoops...here it is. 2:58.48
To give a little context to the time… when referencing the best lap times ever recorded on FastestLaps.com, the 2011 Shelby GT500 is in some fairly elite company, and would place directly between the 10th ranked Chevrolet Corvette Z06 with 2:58.2 and the Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport C6 at 2:58.8 seconds. No offense to Gene Martindale, Ford’s vehicle dynamics engineer, but looking at the video it looks as if there might be a little more time to be shaved even still.
and that was poorly driven from what i could see.
i had seen(and think i posted) the gt lap.
-
manufacturers dont usually send their slowest test drivers to do timed laps for the media ...
-
Oh! And Chevy's turn into 20 foot tall robots too! Take THAT blue oval fan bois!
-
manufacturers dont usually send their slowest test drivers to do timed laps for the media ...
i know. i'll be finding what mine can do in the spring. after i do some driving courses. i need them for this car. it's much more capable than i am, as much as i like to brag about my skillz. :devil
-
you guys have not realized yet...it is not about the numbers...... it is not about who is the fastest...who fluff'n cares that some lame arse rich guys can buy a fast car he is still a lame arse rich guy.....none of it matters..........NONE OF IT MATTERS........
unless its 65-72 MOPAR......its junk............just sayin
:neener:
-
you're close.
only ONE thing matters.
FUN
-
you're close.
only ONE thing matters.
FUN
that's pretty accurate too :D
Fun in a MOPAR :rock
:devil
-
Go VOLVO!! :bolt:
-
Heck, the BMW M3 coupe, Lexus IS-F, and Jag XKR all whooped up on that 5.0 Mustang at VIR. :rofl
And who wouldn't take a Jag over a Mustang?
(http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/bzavasnik/XKRS_012_051_JNA-1008x567.jpg)
-
And who wouldn't take a Jag over a Mustang?
(http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/bzavasnik/XKRS_012_051_JNA-1008x567.jpg)
pretty much anyone that knows jags. :devil
-
Oh! And Chevy's turn into 20 foot tall robots too! Take THAT blue oval fan bois!
well, danabit!! that settles it. i'm gonna go order myself one of those secret transformer edition camaros. it dam well better transform, or i'm gonna be really really really super uber mad.
-
so you're saying that their corvette numbers are exaggerated too?
i could've sworn i saw a gt500 lap in the mid to high 2's.....whoops...here it is. 2:58.48
To give a little context to the time… when referencing the best lap times ever recorded on FastestLaps.com, the 2011 Shelby GT500 is in some fairly elite company, and would place directly between the 10th ranked Chevrolet Corvette Z06 with 2:58.2 and the Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport C6 at 2:58.8 seconds. No offense to Gene Martindale, Ford’s vehicle dynamics engineer, but looking at the video it looks as if there might be a little more time to be shaved even still and that was poorly driven from what i could see.
i had seen(and think i posted) the gt lap.
[Lee Corso voice]NOT SO FAST, MY FRIEND!!![/Lee Corso voice]
First, the 2:58.2 Z06 time you referenced is for a 2007 Z06. The new ones do it in 2:53.xx
Second, please provide a link to this supposed 2:58.48 lap by the GT500. The website you reference, www.fastestlaps.com, only shows a 3:04.0 best lap at VIR for the GT500 (link) (http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/ford_mustang_shelby_gt500.html)
Personally, I'd bet if such a lap does exist, it's likely BS, like Nissan's record-breaking Nurburgring lap was found out to be, where they claimed to have beaten the ZR1, until it was discovered that their lap was run on pure race slicks hand grooved to look like treaded street tires. My money sais the blue oval guys were wearing race tires for any such a lap, not street tires.
-
Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
1. Radical SR8LM 6:48.00 182 0 455 / 650 Radical
2. Radical SR8 6:55.00 179 '05 363 / 650 Radical
3. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 172 '09 700 / 1200 Gumpert
4. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:12.13 172 '08 600 / 1536 Dominik Farnbacher
5. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:14.64 171 '12 570 / 1509 Lexus
6. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 171 '05 350 / 600 Michael Duechting
7. Porsche 911 GT2 RS 7:18.00 169 '10 620 / 1370 Porsche
8. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19.00 169 '03 320 / 500 Phil Bennett
9. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:19.63 169 '08 647 / 1530 General Motors
10. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:22.10 168 '08 600 / 1536 Motor Trend
11. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 7:22.68 168 '11 512 / 1394 General Motors
12. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:22.85 167 '12 570 / 1509 Lexus
13. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24.00 167 '07 700 / 1200 Sport Auto
14. Nissan GT-R 7:24.22 167 '11 530 / 1736 Nissan
15. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 167 '04 632 / 1335 Marc Basseng
16. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 167 '05 650 / 1230 Marc Basseng
17. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 167 '02 660 / 1365 Marc Basseng
18. Nissan GT-R 7:26.70 166 '08 479 / 1740 Toshio Suzuki
19. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 7:27.00 166 '11 500 / 1360 Porsche
20. Ferrari 458 Italia 7:28.00 166 '09 570 / 1485 Scuderia Autoropa
21. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 165 '03 612 / 1380 Marc Basseng
22. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 7:30.00 165 '11 500 / 1360 Sport Auto
23. Porsche 911 GT2 7:31.00 164 '07 530 / 1440 Auto Motor und Sport
24. Porsche 911 Turbo S 7:32.00 164 '10 530 / 1585 Porsche
25. Pagani Zonda F 7:33.00 164 '05 602 / 1371 Sport Auto
26. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:33.00 164 '10 450 / 1400 Sport Auto
27. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55 164 '06 806 / 1456 Marc Basseng
28. Koenigsegg CCR 7:34.00 163 '04 806 / 1418 Sport Auto
29. Audi R8 GT 7:34.00 163 '10 560 / 1520 Sport Auto
30. Nissan GT-R Spec-V 7:34.46 163 '09 492 / 1680 Best Motoring
31. RUF RT12 7:35.00 163 '05 650 / 1573 Sport Auto
32. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:38.00 162 '06 480 / 1585 Porsche
33. Lexus LF-A 7:38.00 162 '10 560 / 1609 Sport Auto
34. Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 7:38.00 162 '10 570 / 1430 Sport Auto
35. Ferrari 430 Scuderia 7:39.00 162 '07 510 / 1402 Sport Auto
36. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 7:40.00 161 '06 640 / 1805 Auto Bild Sportscars
37. McLaren Mercedes SLR 7:40.00 161 '03 626 / 1693 Auto Bild
38. Porsche 911 GT3 7:40.00 161 '09 435 / 1376 Walter Rohrl
39. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:40.00 161 '11 400 / 1415 Porsche
2012 Camaro ZL1 7:41.27
40. Porsche 911 GT3 7:42.00 161 '06 415 / 1395 Walter Rohrl
41. Radical SR3 7:42.00 161 '02 205 / 495
42. Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 7:42.00 161 '09 670 / 1664 Sport Auto
43. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:42.90 160 '05 513 / 1437 Jan Magnussen
44. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:43.00 160 '03 381 / 1360 Motor
45. Pagani Zonda C12 S 7:44.00 160 '02 555 / 1250 Sport Auto
46. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 7:44.00 160 '09 525 / 1620 Sport Auto
47. Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series 7:45.00 159 '07 507 / 1745 Berndt Schneider
48. Gardner Douglas GD T70 Spyder 7:45.00 159 '10 710 / 900 Dario Margutti
49. Porsche 911 GT2 7:46.00 159 '00 460 / 1430 Sport Auto
50. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 7:46.00 159 '07 530 / 1520 Auto
51. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 159 '92 549 / 1470 John Nielsen
52. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 7:47.00 159 '06 620 / 1748 Sport Auto
53. Wiesmann GT MF5 7:47.00 159 '08 507 / 1380 Sport Auto
54. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:47.00 159 '09 500 / 1570 Sport Auto
55. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:48.00 158 '06 415 / 1375 Sport Auto
56. BMW M3 GTS 7:48.00 158 '10 450 / 1543 Sport Auto
57. Lamborghini Murcielago 7:50.00 158 '02 580 / 1800 Sport Auto
58. BMW M3 CSL 7:50.00 158 '03 360 / 1385 Sport Auto
59. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:50.00 158 '08 385 / 1425
60. Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 7:51.00 157 '09 670 / 1870 Sport Auto
61. Lamborghini Gallardo 7:52.00 157 '03 500 / 1613 Sport Auto
62. Ford GT 7:52.00 157 '04 550 / 1538 Sport Auto
63. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 7:52.00 157 '08 560 / 1530 Sport Auto
64. Mercedes CLK DTM 7:54.00 156 '04 582 / 1678 Sport Auto
65. Porsche 911 GT3 7:54.00 156 '03 380 / 1380 Sport Auto
66. Ferrari F430 7:55.00 156 '05 489 / 1450 Sport Auto
67. Caterham R500 1.8L K Series 7:55.00 156 '99 233 / 450 EVO
68. BMW M5 7:55.00 156 '11 560 / 1870 BMW
69. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:56.00 156 '00 420 / 1540 Sport Auto
70. Ferrari 360 CS 7:56.00 156 '03 425 / 1280 Sport Auto
71. Ferrari California GT 7:56.00 156 '09 460 / 1787
72. Porsche Panamera Sport Chrono Turbo 7:56.00 156 '09 500 / 1974 Auto Bild
73. Porsche Panamera Turbo 7:56.00 156 '09 500 / 1870 Walter Rohrl
74. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:56.00 156 '02 411 / 1414 General Motors
75. Porsche 911 GT3 7:56.33 156 '99 360 / 1350 Walter Rohrl
-
[Lee Corso voice]NOT SO FAST, MY FRIEND!!![/Lee Corso voice]
First, the 2:58.2 Z06 time you referenced is for a 2007 Z06. The new ones do it in 2:53.xx
Second, please provide a link to this supposed 2:58.48 lap by the GT500. The website you reference, www.fastestlaps.com, only shows a 3:04.0 best lap at VIR for the GT500 (link) (http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/ford_mustang_shelby_gt500.html)
Personally, I'd bet if such a lap does exist, it's likely BS, like Nissan's record-breaking Nurburgring lap was found out to be, where they claimed to have beaten the ZR1, until it was discovered that their lap was run on pure race slicks hand grooved to look like treaded street tires. My money sais the blue oval guys were wearing race tires for any such a lap, not street tires.
i hadn't heard that about the nissan, but it doesn't surprise me much either.
the shelby be running goodyear supercar f1 tires. i know what you're gonna type next........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7PIZhFUdc&feature=player_embedded
although i'm not a professional driver, and this guy is supposed to be, i think there's a second or two in that car, due to mistakes made. i could be wrong though. i'm also kinda surprised that they didn't up the rev limiter from 6250......
-
also, i don't give this much weight.....but i found this in a gm forum.......
Re: 2013 GT500 at Nurburgring
Both cars were running mid 7 minute laps, the red GT500's best was said to be 7:30ish and the black 500 was 7:40ish. I personally seen a 7:35 and a 7:43 from them. Both cars were said to have major brake upgrades so not sure if these times will stick. I imagine that a 165mph top speed was needed to break a mid 7 minute lap so if the production cars are limited then there is no way they can replicate those times.
-
how did the 08 ACR viper get 10s? :headscratch:
edit: ... on itself? :headscratch:
edit2: "51. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 159 '92 549 / 1470 John Nielsen" :rock
-
how did the 08 ACR viper get 10s? :headscratch:
edit: ... on itself? :headscratch:
edit2: "51. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 159 '92 549 / 1470 John Nielsen" :rock
dodge paid em to give those ratings. :noid
-
Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
1. Radical SR8LM 6:48.00 182 0 455 / 650 Radical
<snip>
9. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:19.63 169 '08 647 / 1530 General Motors
<snip>
40. 2012 Camaro ZL1 7:41.27
<snip>
62. Ford GT 7:52.00 157 '04 550 / 1538 Sport Auto
Congrats on reaching 62nd place!! :aok
No Rustangs on that list, either..... :noid
-
Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
19. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 7:27.00 166 '11 500 / 1360 Porsche
21. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 165 '03 612 / 1380 Marc Basseng
22. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 7:30.00 165 '11 500 / 1360 Sport Auto
23. Porsche 911 GT2 7:31.00 164 '07 530 / 1440 Auto Motor und Sport
24. Porsche 911 Turbo S 7:32.00 164 '10 530 / 1585 Porsche
26. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:33.00 164 '10 450 / 1400 Sport Auto
32. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:38.00 162 '06 480 / 1585 Porsche
38. Porsche 911 GT3 7:40.00 161 '09 435 / 1376 Walter Rohrl
39. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:40.00 161 '11 400 / 1415 Porsche
40. Porsche 911 GT3 7:42.00 161 '06 415 / 1395 Walter Rohrl
44. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:43.00 160 '03 381 / 1360 Motor
49. Porsche 911 GT2 7:46.00 159 '00 460 / 1430 Sport Auto
54. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:47.00 159 '09 500 / 1570 Sport Auto
55. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:48.00 158 '06 415 / 1375 Sport Auto
59. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:50.00 158 '08 385 / 1425
65. Porsche 911 GT3 7:54.00 156 '03 380 / 1380 Sport Auto
69. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:56.00 156 '00 420 / 1540 Sport Auto
72. Porsche Panamera Sport Chrono Turbo 7:56.00 156 '09 500 / 1974 Auto Bild
73. Porsche Panamera Turbo 7:56.00 156 '09 500 / 1870 Walter Rohrl
75. Porsche 911 GT3 7:56.33 156 '99 360 / 1350 Walter Rohrl
:aok :aok :aok
-
yeah Walter and Horst have certainly put a few laps in at the ring :D
edit: Ive seen many impressive laps on Utube, but this one is my fav as it shows Walter's superhuman car control on a very slippery ring. just incredible. I love the bit at 1:33 where he gives the wheel a quick pat mid slide, like hes saying to the car "come on baby, help me out here"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93ag4Rp-Gg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93ag4Rp-Gg) :rock
-
Note the year models on those.
-
Note the year models on those.
the porsches? :headscratch:
-
the porsches? :headscratch:
On all the vehicles. The list is always updated.
-
Chevy has already won. When the world comes to an end, and everything ends up like either, the "road warrior" or "Thundar the Barbarian", somebody will still have a small block chevy running somewhere. Most likely a Gen1, still trying to figure out how to keep my LS1 going after an EMP pulse, Intake and carb, Check!, Distributor :headscratch:. Kept my points so the old big block 69 will keep going for a bit, but Mark IV parts will be hard to find after a while.
:salute
BigRat
-
On all the vehicles. The list is always updated.
yup and porsche has 90's GTs in there still :neener:
-
Chevy has already won. When the world comes to an end, and everything ends up like either, the "road warrior" or "Thundar the Barbarian", somebody will still have a small block chevy running somewhere. Most likely a Gen1, still trying to figure out how to keep my LS1 going after an EMP pulse, Intake and carb, Check!, Distributor :headscratch:. Kept my points so the old big block 69 will keep going for a bit, but Mark IV parts will be hard to find after a while.
:salute
BigRat
The road warrior drove a Ford :neener:
-
Chevy has already won. When the world comes to an end, and everything ends up like either, the "road warrior" or "Thundar the Barbarian", somebody will still have a small block chevy running somewhere. Most likely a Gen1, still trying to figure out how to keep my LS1 going after an EMP pulse, Intake and carb, Check!, Distributor :headscratch:. Kept my points so the old big block 69 will keep going for a bit, but Mark IV parts will be hard to find after a while.
:salute
BigRat
i've got 3 dual point distributors, and a single point for my ford small blocks(of which i have the means to assemble 5, including a 1970 original boss302 engine), and 1 single point for a 350 chevy. i don't have the means to assemble any chevy engines though.
got half a dozen holley carbs, and i think an edelbrock carb.
-
I've got an inline six mechanically injected turbodiesel that easily swaps with the current inline six turbo gas engine of the same family for post-emp pulse driving.