Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: USBP1969 on February 14, 2012, 08:21:57 PM
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I was happy to see the 88's. but was very surprised when there were no proximity fuses like those on the 5". Don't know my WW-II history enough to say whether they should have them or not, but after firing hundreds of 88 rounds at A/C, many of which were very close (as in traded paint) with no explosion I gave up on using them.
USBP1969
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They never had proximity fuses. :frown:
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I was happy to see the 88's. but was very surprised when there were no proximity fuses like those on the 5". Don't know my WW-II history enough to say whether they should have them or not, but after firing hundreds of 88 rounds at A/C, many of which were very close (as in traded paint) with no explosion I gave up on using them.
USBP1969
Only the Allies had proximity fuses, Germany didn't.
ack-ack
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if they had, the world might be very different. (i'm guessing)
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Germans didn't use proxy fuzes. However, I think the 88mm could use a bit of work (and thats based purely from offline target practice, which is always easier than in the servers).
Perhaps give each gun possition a battery of 3 FlaK 36's to control, not counting the one you're in, with the shell randomization, and the slaved gun's fuze distance being relative to the main cannon in the battery, but min/max distances maintained for each gun (so that each gun in the battery can only fuze its shells for a maximum of 5000yds from its own possition), and maybe reduce the minimum minimum fuze distance to 600yds so as to provide a viable self-defense from strafing aircraft.
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hell no! 88s are already more effective than they should be. if you want to shoot a plane down, get in a plane.
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I'm still waiting for the flak bursts in & around our bomber formations. :uhoh
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hell no! 88s are already more effective than they should be. if you want to shoot a plane down, get in a plane.
Funny to hear the plane guys getting killed by something on the ground. They seem to think it's funny as hell to bomb tanks but don't like it when something can shoot back lmao :rofl
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hell no! 88s are already more effective than they should be. if you want to shoot a plane down, get in a plane.
You've had, what, a grand total of one aircraft shot down by an '88 this tour?
Sorry, but thats only 3% of your deaths in aircraft caused by the 88mm. And for all we know, it was actually a 5" or a 40mm that got you. Hell, it could have been one of the 20mm's on the ships, for all that the statistics tell us.
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I've killed 3 in an 88 this tour. I fired approximately 2500 rounds of airburst ammunition, and ended up killing one with AP after I ran out. They are not nearly as effective as you'd think, aside from the chasing planes away effect, and being able to hit high flying buffs. They're fun as hell, and I don't see any problems with the current modeling. There's a couple that are getting downright good at leading with those things too.
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I think the 88s work fine, having managed to take out lots of planes with them so far this tour, ranging from a fighter at 7.6k circling base to 2 lancs in one shot that were 5.5 out.
Learning the lead and drop of the shell while working out what range the eny will be at when they both meet, thats the hard part.
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This tour alone I have hit two planes directly with no puffy needed.
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Here's a link to the Naval Historical Center page on proximity fuzes (http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq96-1.htm)
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In brief, there is nothing unique about the "idea" of a proximity fuze. The possibility that proximity fuzes of various types might be feasible has been recognized for a long time. The American achievement, accomplished by no other country, was the actual development of a proximity fuze that would function and that could be manufactured by mass-production techniques.
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(http://www.history.navy.mil/pics/shell2.jpg)
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Then, if no proximity fuses how about a manual fuse setting?
Example: A/C circling at 3.5K, set fuse (as was done in WW-II using range finders) to match planes distance from the 88?
It's real and would be fun, which is why most folks play AH.
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Then, if no proximity fuses how about a manual fuse setting?
Example: A/C circling at 3.5K, set fuse (as was done in WW-II using range finders) to match planes distance from the 88?
It's real and would be fun, which is why most folks play AH.
isnt that what c and v do?
semp
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hell no! 88s are already more effective than they should be. if you want to shoot a plane down, get in a plane.
I dont find them terribly effective unless I fly stupid. When I see 88 bursts starting to zero in, I change altitude, airspeed and distance, and the issue essentially goes away.
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Then, if no proximity fuses how about a manual fuse setting?
Example: A/C circling at 3.5K, set fuse (as was done in WW-II using range finders) to match planes distance from the 88?
It's real and would be fun, which is why most folks play AH.
Have you ever even selected the 88?
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Then, if no proximity fuses how about a manual fuse setting?
Example: A/C circling at 3.5K, set fuse (as was done in WW-II using range finders) to match planes distance from the 88?
It's real and would be fun, which is why most folks play AH.
you can't wish for things that already exist.
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
(I would post a lengthy new thread wishing for the P51D, with copy/pasted info, and many photos, but that would probably violate forum rules.)
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if you want to shoot a plane down, get in a plane.
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what i like to know is how far the burst to damage/ shrapnel effectiveness range is. I.E. how close does burst need to be to have a % of a chance of hurting something. i personally think 600 out and .001% chance of damage/ a hit would not be unreasonable. but tis a guess and only a modest understanding of shrapnel disbursment. i know this has to be embedded in to the game and this info as well as 5in should not be "an HCT" job security secret because many tests are done and it would available info. lood example "if u wanna damge something with a .30 cal hit it, if u want to damage some thing with 88 have shell burst within 100/ or just a chance at hitting it 300/ if at certain angles 300/ or even 20. so much info that is "known" and being with held for us to learn. problem is for me is i dont write it down lol
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if you want to shoot a plane down, get in a plane.
You do realize that such a statment is no different than those saying 'if you want to kill tanks, go get a tank', right? If we want to take things out of proportion, it could also extend to sinking ships with ordnance, as opposed to the guns a ship, the PT boats, or the SB's.
Not saying anything, all I'm doing is making sure you realize this. You just seem like the type that would say that bombing tanks is fair game because it happened in real life.
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Personally my motto is "If it's not in the air, I don't care"
I don't bomb GVs (have maybe killed 2 tanks with bombs ever in my entire time playing AH I think), I don't bomb hangars...I might de-ack to help my squaddies on a base take but that's about it.
I would certainly agree with 'If you want to kill tanks, get in a tank".
To me the game is about air combat, and I'm not a fan of someone who is too skill-less to up a plane and dogfight getting a load of kills while they sit relatively safely in a manned gun of some kind.
That's just how I view things. I understand that not everyone wants the same things from the game as me, but I don't have to like it ;) *shrug*
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yet to get hit by one. . . I basically ignore it. CV puffy ack on the other hand is a major pain and very scary.
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To me the game is about air combat, and I'm not a fan of someone who is too skill-less to up a plane and dogfight getting a load of kills while they sit relatively safely in a manned gun of some kind.
relatively safe? it's completely safe. which is another reason i love doing it. "discouraging" vulchers is one of my primary objectives in the game and I can do it almost full time. popping a fool who flew 10 minutes to try to shoot some guy rolling on a runway, only to get a 37mm I take no risk in operating is great..
if someone wants an actual dogfight, they dont hover over an enemy field within range manned ack. they don't vulch. if they dont want to get popped by a manned ack, see my sig.
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My main deterent to vulchers is upping an M8 and using the 37mm to open up a can of whoop-arse on them.
For some reason, most people ignore M8's if they don't try to leave the field. I guess its because they're not precieved as a threat to tanks, or aircraft, and as long as its on field, it can't hurt troops.
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relatively safe? it's completely safe. which is another reason i love doing it. "discouraging" vulchers is one of my primary objectives in the game and I can do it almost full time. popping a fool who flew 10 minutes to try to shoot some guy rolling on a runway, only to get a 37mm I take no risk in operating is great..
if someone wants an actual dogfight, they dont hover over an enemy field within range manned ack. they don't vulch. if they dont want to get popped by a manned ack, see my sig.
Oh yeah. :aok
Vulchers are eunuchs looking for easy kills to rack up at little to no risk to themselves.
They whine when the ack gives them what they so rightfully deserve.
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Good grief! Broaden your horizons guys. Where there is an offense, there is a defense to counter it. Tankers don't like being bombed? Ask for some friendly fighters or AA vehicles to come to the area. Don't like being shot out of the sky by non-aircraft enemies? Fly smart in a group to use one guy as a distraction while another gets the AA gun from behind. Don't like hordes? Then up something at the first sign of one (most are NOE), so get get some alt/energy and fly smart until you get backup.
All I'm seeing is a lot of "I just got killed, so there's either something wrong with the game or the enemy is not playing fair"
Back on topic with the 88 flak. Ive gotten 2 kills as a result of direct hits less than 1.5k away. Its tough to handle because you have to give the shell anywhere between 1-30 seconds to get to the target distance. I wouldn't waste my time on fighters, another fighter or LAAG would be better to stop those. Since bombers are coming in straight and level, that reduces the variables by a lot. The toughest part about it is trying to quickly change the fuse lengths because they are carried out to a hundredth of a k-yard. You might have to set the fuse as much as 3k in front of the plane to get even close. Ive only been back one day, but my initial impression is that operating a single flak is not enough to pose a serious threat to high buffs, but could possibly distract them enough to make a mistake. I don't know, haven't been on the receiving end of one yet.
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isnt that what c and v do?
I think he means the gunsight autosets the fuse, heck ... I'd settle for a gunsight !
:lol
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As others have posted the Germans did not use proximity fuses for the 88mm Flak. However, the 88mm flak gun was directed by a very good range finding device. I dont know how that could be incorporated into the game to reflect the accuracy of the range finder so the crews could set the fuse to burst at altitude?? Maybe some of the more experienced could give a say?? Right now it is just practice, practice, practice. But it is almost unfair when you compare the 5" proximity fuse to the 88mm. Those 5" are deadly accurate. Seems like each time I come near one it hits me when I am in a bomber. LOL.
BigKev
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Gun - not on my keyboard, but I'll look it up in key settings. Mine is remapped as I have been using the same keys (depending on game) since 1999.
Maybe there is still hope.
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My main deterent to vulchers is upping an M8 and using the 37mm to open up a can of whoop-arse on them.
For some reason, most people ignore M8's if they don't try to leave the field. I guess its because they're not precieved as a threat to tanks, or aircraft, and as long as its on field, it can't hurt troops.
M-8? I use a T-34; with a little practice anyone can turn that tank into an anti-vulcher.
I wish I could hear the whining I must cause on 200.
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The 88mm is useless against aircraft. Call it what it is.
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Only the Allies had successfuly developed and engineered for mass industrial production proximity fuses, Germany tried and was getting closer, but ran out of time/resources and didn't.
ack-ack
It wasn't for a lack of trying though.
yet to get hit by one. . . I basically ignore it. CV puffy ack on the other hand is a major pain and very scary.
That's honestly my only gripe about the 88, without directly doing a single thing, it made CV puffy ack even worse in this game to deal with.
The 88mm is useless against aircraft. Call it what it is.
I agree with feeling that historically the 88 was a greater threat to a/c than what we have in-game, especialy compared to the a 5"er it seems. However, I find its current optics/sight near-useless in defending bases from ground threats further than a near-zero distance.
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I've been trying to create charts to get the best aim point. So far I've been unsuccessful because of limited input and cannot make an estimation for a particular point in time before the aircraft has moved on.
The best thing i can think of for the current set up is to make the best judgement of the altitude of the enemy aircraft, fire repeatedly out in front of it without reacting to the aircraft and hope the aircraft flies into your flak bursts. This leaves a lot to be desired because there is no way to get an accurate estimation of alt from the ground. I'd like the system to display the angle at which the 88mm flak gun is elevated (0-90 degrees). Through trig, a gunner could get an accurate alt estimation of the enemy based on the gun's angle and the direct-line distance to the aircraft.
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If you're REALLY fast with the calculator, and good at guessing angles, you can get a rough estimate of above ground altitude using trigonomtry. Then you'll have to use trig again to find the total range to the above-ground height of your aim point.
Essentially, you would doing everything that the german gun-control systems were doing, save for calculating speed and a precise aim point.
Personally, I think this is going to be like the 5"ers, but even more so due to the shell randomization: Art much more than a science.
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I did try the "C"-V" ranging off-line for about an hour. I never brought a plane down. The ack puffs were close and in one case there was a flash directly on the plane, but nothing happened. It works fine with the 5" off-line. Maybe there is no damage model for off-line near or direct hits.
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I did try the "C"-V" ranging off-line for about an hour. I never brought a plane down. The ack puffs were close and in one case there was a flash directly on the plane, but nothing happened. It works fine with the 5" off-line. Maybe there is no damage model for off-line near or direct hits.
Oh no, there is... Trust me. I've been offline for 3 years :D
It doesn't matter where you shoot in the air with the AA rounds, there's always a quick flash-- it's the round exploding. You probably hit just just beside it, which is just in front of it from your gun's perspective
^
(GUN) ----------------------* (PLANE)
I've actually brough down several aircraft so far with the XX... It's very, VERY hard. On a side, and completely related not, is it possible to make an offline mission with planes attacking one's airfield/vBase, and defending it with a field gun with other AIs in the other guns?
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Maybe there is no damage model for off-line near or direct hits.
Drones offline continue to fly with massive damage until you kill the "pilot".
They fly with one wing, with no wings, on fire....
Don't use offline drones as an example of no damage being done.
wrongway
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Drones offline continue to fly with massive damage until you kill the "pilot".
They fly with one wing, with no wings, on fire....
Don't use offline drones as an example of no damage being done.
wrongway
Nope, I don't think so. Yes, they fly with stupid amounts of damage, but I think it's one of two things that decides when the drone "dies"
A) the number of bullets that the airframe has, which varies depending on caliber of fired bullet
B) how many parts are/would be missing.
I've put dozens of 50 cal rounds into a plane, all at the back, from 8 o'clock high, and it still died.
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Personally my motto is "If it's not in the air, I don't care"
To me the game is about air combat, and I'm not a fan of someone who is too skill-less to up a plane and dogfight getting a load of kills while they sit relatively safely in a manned gun of some kind.
There is no safety in a manned gun. You can't move around, you can't hide. The gun is easy to knock out. Hitting something with a manned gun takes some skill. There is a method to the madness.
As for bombing GVs.... well if they don't up flaks, don't shoot at planes, and don't attack air bases..... I see no issure with not bombing them.
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Keep this in mind guys a fighter is harder to hit as it is moving a lot faster and manuvering more than a bomber. A flight of bombers on a run with the pilot in the bombsight is a much easier target to range, lead and adjust. Just practice. I am getting better in the TA with it.
BigKev