Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on July 11, 2012, 02:05:51 PM

Title: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Slade on July 11, 2012, 02:05:51 PM
Hello,

Which planes do you feel have the most profound response in using the rudder?

Some examples include: swinging the nose over to get a shot, air braking etc.


Thanks,

Slade  :salute
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 11, 2012, 02:10:17 PM
P-38 has very effective rudders.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: --)SF---- on July 11, 2012, 03:47:31 PM
F4u   P47   P39
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Noir on July 11, 2012, 03:53:26 PM
me262 will wiggle allover the place with a rudder kick

I don't agree with the p38, actually it's my main problem with the plane, I'm unable to correct my shots with the rudder as much as I would in any other plane.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 11, 2012, 04:15:38 PM

I don't agree with the p38, actually it's my main problem with the plane, I'm unable to correct my shots with the rudder as much as I would in any other plane.

It really doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, it's a fact.  The P-38 rudders were very effective in real life and the same goes for in game.  If you're having troubles using the rudders to correct for shots, you may want to look at scaling the rudder input.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: cobia38 on July 11, 2012, 04:27:04 PM
 
  A-20 has a barn door on the arse end,one of the best rudders in the game  :cheers:
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Noir on July 11, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
I'm strictly speaking ingame, as I think the thread refers to the ingame.

The P38 seems to have very reactive and precise rudder, but the maximum angle gained on a kick isn't very great.. my 2 cents
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: mthrockmor on July 11, 2012, 04:33:42 PM
Isn't the F4U the standard for this discussion?

Boo
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Noir on July 11, 2012, 04:34:45 PM
I'm strictly speaking ingame, as I think the thread refers to the ingame.

The P38 seems to have very reactive and precise rudder, but the maximum angle gained on a kick isn't very great.. my 2 cents

I have second thoughts about that statement, I'm checking offline )
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Noir on July 11, 2012, 04:45:11 PM
precisions...between 130 and 300 mph the P38 rudder seems pretty good and the plane and VERY stable while rotating, but as speed increases the rudder seems to become less and less effective to the point where at 400mph+ the 38 can barely move its nose at all.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: katanaso on July 11, 2012, 04:53:38 PM
Isn't the F4U the standard for this discussion?

Boo

My thought as well, with the 38.

precisions...between 130 and 300 mph the P38 rudder seems pretty good and the plane and VERY stable while rotating, but as speed increases the rudder seems to become less and less effective to the point where at 400mph+ the 38 can barely move its nose at all.

400+ is very fast.  However, the rudders are excellent at avoiding compressing while in diving at high speeds like that.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: ScottyK on July 11, 2012, 10:05:47 PM
109s
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: titanic3 on July 11, 2012, 10:22:42 PM
109s

Ehhh, if youre going left along with the torque then yes. If you're trying to go right under 150mph, not really.

Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Auger on July 11, 2012, 10:44:59 PM
I was rather surprised by how quickly the Yak-9T shed airspeed with full rudder.  I thought for sure I was going to overshoot a Tempest after diving 7K feet on a bounce the other night.  He immediately tried to make me overshoot and the Yak stayed right in the saddle.  One more reverse and I would have probably stalled out.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: RedBull1 on July 12, 2012, 02:37:26 AM
I think we can all agree....

TA-152 !
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: kilo2 on July 12, 2012, 04:10:03 AM
I think we can all agree....

TA-152 !

True.

If you want to use a plane with great rudder control look no further.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Slade on July 12, 2012, 06:09:23 AM
Wow I am learning so much from this email.  The 152. 109 better to the left with rudder.  F4U etc.

I can't wait to work more with these planes in this context.

Thanks for all the feedback.  :salute
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Xasthur on July 12, 2012, 06:34:16 AM
I love the rudder on the 109.... going to the left is a fair point... it's not as effective to the right, but it still works like a parachute if you use it right.

The 109s acceleration combined with a rolling, hard rudder input stop is a great way to get a con on your six to slide by and into perfect 30mm range.


My gunnery is hopeless, especially now that I fly so rarely, but the 109 is such a great dogfighter and the rudder is a real part of what makes it so good in a knife fight.



Whereas with the 152 and its rudder... I don't find that its good rudder control is of real benefit to you. If you're relying on it in a fight chances are you've already lost. (At least that's the case when I fly it... I'm a bit rubbish)
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: perdue3 on July 12, 2012, 10:48:21 AM
Ki 84, 152
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: hawkeye61 on July 12, 2012, 11:39:05 AM
I love the rudder on the 109.... going to the left is a fair point... it's not as effective to the right, but it still works like a parachute if you use it right.

The 109s acceleration combined with a rolling, hard rudder input stop is a great way to get a con on your six to slide by and into perfect 30mm range.


My gunnery is hopeless, especially now that I fly so rarely, but the 109 is such a great dogfighter and the rudder is a real part of what makes it so good in a knife fight.



Whereas with the 152 and its rudder... I don't find that its good rudder control is of real benefit to you. If you're relying on it in a fight chances are you've already lost. (At least that's the case when I fly it... I'm a bit rubbish)

^Using the rudder to good effect will get the 109 to dance around the sky. If you really know what you are doing you can depart controlled flight and get it back smoothly, while other planes would spin and crash.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: JunkyII on July 12, 2012, 01:24:44 PM
B29
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: tmetal on July 12, 2012, 03:10:36 PM
LA5 and 7 both have good rudder responce, imho
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: --)SF---- on July 12, 2012, 03:15:51 PM
LA5 and 7 both have good rudder responce, imho

I have been known on occasion to fly lala's, I would by no means say they have strong rudder authority.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: tmetal on July 12, 2012, 04:14:23 PM
yeah most people would agree with you, but they seem to work well for me when I kick rudder; that's why I had to throw in the "imho" on my first post.  :salute
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: titanic3 on July 12, 2012, 09:58:15 PM
^Using the rudder to good effect will get the 109 to dance around the sky. If you really know what you are doing you can depart controlled flight and get it back smoothly, while other planes would spin and crash.

I don't think I've ever got a 109 into an uncontrollable stall. Without damage that is.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Ruah on July 13, 2012, 01:08:06 AM
I don't think I've ever got a 109 into an uncontrollable stall. Without damage that is.

that's because you throttle down instead of fight the torque as you spiral down towards the ground - but yah, 109 is like an arrow, they straighten out nice.

As for rudder, F4U and all the US navy planes and the 152 have noticeable rudder (152 rudder will kill you if you are not super super gentle with it)

Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Greebo on July 13, 2012, 04:01:01 AM
The F6F rudder is very effective. I use it a lot as an air brake to force overshoots as well as combined with aileron to generate a snap roll. It is vital for my gunnery as well, can't hit a thing if I lose my rudder. In fact losing a rudder is basically RTB damage for me, whereas I can still fight effectively after losing an elevator or aileron.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Mitsu on July 13, 2012, 04:32:34 AM
Ki84 has rudder monster effect too.
sometimes I tried it in TnB, rolling scissors.
it causes rudder cobra maneuvers, and I can overshoot target.
it causes inverted deep stall though....
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: earl1937 on July 13, 2012, 07:08:26 AM
The F6F rudder is very effective. I use it a lot as an air brake to force overshoots as well as combined with aileron to generate a snap roll. It is vital for my gunnery as well, can't hit a thing if I lose my rudder. In fact losing a rudder is basically RTB damage for me, whereas I can still fight effectively after losing an elevator or aileron.
:airplane: I doubt if there is a better F6F pilot in this game, than you sir!!  :salute There are some interesting view points about different aircraft rudders in this thread, but I think one thing people are missing, " All single engine Navy fighters" had larger than normal rudders and length of rudder travel to aid in handling on aircraft carrier decks. They needed the "extra" rudder size and travel because of operating in close quarters to other aircraft and equipment. Another point is the approach speeds, (slow as possible), and the torque and "P" factor envolved with R-2800 and R-3350 engines. There was even an expermental F4UD-39??, which had a R-4360 but don't know if it ever when into production. Can you imagne traying to take off on a "Essex" class carrier with that monstor up front?(the R-4360)  :old:
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: icepac on July 13, 2012, 08:43:32 AM
(http://air-and-space.com/19990930%20Champlin/2%2024%20F2G-1%20N4324%20BuNo%2088454%20right%20side%20rev%2020051224%20l.jpg)
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Widewing on July 16, 2012, 09:21:52 PM
The F6F rudder is very effective. I use it a lot as an air brake to force overshoots as well as combined with aileron to generate a snap roll. It is vital for my gunnery as well, can't hit a thing if I lose my rudder. In fact losing a rudder is basically RTB damage for me, whereas I can still fight effectively after losing an elevator or aileron.

At the October 1944 Joint Fighter Conference, the F6F-5 was rated as having the most effective rudder.... I find that to be the case in Aces High as well. Extremely effective, especially so at low speed.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Babalonian on July 17, 2012, 04:40:21 PM
The F4U has a good and effective rudder, but the F6Fs is much better. 

Widewing, I've heard that the F8Fs was pretty weak, in comparison, to the F6Fs and F4Us, know of any documented comparisons by pilots who flew both/all ("proof")?...
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on July 21, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
A-20 & any of the bi planes (love crabbing my camel through the sky wondering..plane why you no go where my nose points!?!). :D
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: ink on July 21, 2012, 06:33:35 PM
I have been known on occasion to fly lala's, I would by no means say they have strong rudder authority.

no way...say it aint so........ 





 :rofl
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Fish42 on July 21, 2012, 11:02:41 PM
The F6F rudder is very effective. I use it a lot as an air brake to force overshoots as well as combined with aileron to generate a snap roll. It is vital for my gunnery as well, can't hit a thing if I lose my rudder. In fact losing a rudder is basically RTB damage for me, whereas I can still fight effectively after losing an elevator or aileron.

all very true...

http://youtu.be/AwTuFLHldWg
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Latrobe on July 22, 2012, 12:18:19 AM
As long as it's still attached to the aircraft, the P38s rudder will always work. Hanging on the prop, in a flat spin, in compression I've had it work in all conditions.

P47 has a pretty crazy rudder. I'm positive you can get that plane to perform and backflip with enough skill.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: TonyJoey on July 22, 2012, 12:47:32 PM
F4U; I'm pretty sure a steering wheel would work in place of pedals.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: MK-84 on July 23, 2012, 09:26:50 PM
I have been known on occasion to fly lala's, I would by no means say they have strong rudder authority.

You dont fly em enough then, it is one of the few planes that is easy to tailslide the aircraft....which is a direct result of rudder authority.  The ability to slew the nose around at high speeds though is not the same at low speeds.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Slade on July 24, 2012, 06:34:45 AM
Guys thanks again for the posts.

I'd like to share that I have been flying a Spit 9 lately and find its Rudder amazing too.  I did not expect that.  :O
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Rodent57 on May 02, 2013, 04:12:23 PM
At the October 1944 Joint Fighter Conference, the F6F-5 was rated as having the most effective rudder.... I find that to be the case in Aces High as well. Extremely effective, especially so at low speed.

AMEN!


PS Why'd you change your name?

-Rodent57
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: GScholz on May 02, 2013, 05:36:59 PM
no way...say it aint so........ 





 :rofl

The Lala is great for catching dweebs who don't want to fight.  :airplane:
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Saxman on May 02, 2013, 06:07:35 PM
I have in the past and always will say this:

The F4U's rudder is even MORE important to flying it effectively than the flaps.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: The Fugitive on May 02, 2013, 06:10:32 PM
AMEN!


PS Why'd you change your name?

-Rodent57


Bumping an almost year old thread to say "AMEN!", WTG !  :neener:
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Rodent57 on May 02, 2013, 06:37:04 PM
Since you detected the sublty of the move, I'll just say I had a reason  :angel: ... neener, neener :-)
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: steely07 on May 03, 2013, 12:31:58 AM
all very true...

http://youtu.be/AwTuFLHldWg

wow, nice move
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: RedBull1 on May 03, 2013, 12:59:05 PM
all very true...

http://youtu.be/AwTuFLHldWg
Gotta give you props there fish, whether it was the angle of the camera or my bad memory...I gotta say that was one of the, if not THE coolest reversal I've seen :cheers: :rock :salute
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Zacherof on May 03, 2013, 01:05:05 PM
That was really awesome. Reminds me of that one scene in stealth that the UCAV hits the flanker with guns.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Ardy123 on May 03, 2013, 03:18:57 PM
I would say that the F4U and the F6F have the greatest rudder authority.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: MK-84 on May 03, 2013, 10:07:21 PM
I would say that the F4U and the F6F have the greatest rudder authority.

Dont forget the 262! :old:
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Ninthmessiah on May 05, 2013, 07:29:33 AM
Quote
P47 has a pretty crazy rudder. I'm positive you can get that plane to perform and backflip with enough skill.

I disagree.  When nose high, slow, and flaps out, the p47's rudder doesn't swing the nose around like the f6f, f4u, pony, 109s, and other planes I'm probably forgetting to mention.  Because performance is relative, and because so many other planes have more effective rudder, I would not put the p47 in the "rudder monster" category.

Exception:  The N jug.  It's rudder can actually swing the nose down in a stall/rope.
Title: Re: Rudder Monsters
Post by: Randy1 on May 05, 2013, 01:19:58 PM
Started taking out the F4U1.  Man what a rudder.