Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on July 20, 2012, 12:18:34 PM
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seems like some me410s removed the barbettes and all the rear gun equipment.
was this done to save weight?
would removing all the rear gun equipment make the 410 significantly lighter? (500-1000lbs?)
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I would be surprised if the setup weighs less than 2000lbs.
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Sounds like a field mod to me. That would open an ungodly slippery slope.
Wiley.
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I would like to fly this aircraft in fighter mode.
Removing the barbettes should help a lot in a turnfight. Im curious how many are using the 13mms with success... i would rather live withouth them.
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I would like to fly this aircraft in fighter mode.
Removing the barbettes should help a lot in a turnfight. Im curious how many are using the 13mms with success... i would rather live withouth them.
None.
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None.
One guy said he got an La-7 with them. That is the only success I've heard.
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I got HOtard in his LA7 yesterday with them, and an LA the day the plane came out. If they park at a distance on your dead 6 you can pepper them. They are actually useful, unlike the 110 guns.
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+1 to make removable
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Also keep in mind that IIRC they can point straight up, I'd like to get under a set of lancasters and bring them down with the rear guns. That would be fun.
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Also keep in mind that removing 1,000+ pounds of weight from the far rear of the airplane will effect the CG in a negative way.
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Also keep in mind that removing 1,000+ pounds of weight from the far rear of the airplane will effect the CG in a negative way.
Look, this pane feels butt-heavy. Stalls like that, at least. Removing 1000+ pounds from behind the wing wouldnt only take effect as improving the turn rate, but would greatly and positively influence the overall stability and post-stall characteristics too. And if something, this aircraft could really use some less weight in the rear.
Btw HOtard is... just a hotard :lol
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Look, this pane feels butt-heavy. Stalls like that, at least. Removing 1000+ pounds from behind the wing wouldnt only take effect as improving the turn rate, but positively influencing the overall stability and post-stall characteristics too. And if something, this aircraft could really use some less weight in the rear.
A forward CG increases stall speed, increases stability, increases turn radius. I think the CG is ok the way it is.
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A forward CG also decreases top speed
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I see, allright... see, my little brain is just stuck with nose-heavy 109s and cant deal with anything else haha
:salute
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So now we're trying to make it better then it really is?
Should have researched before you voted. When the Luftwaffe pulled it that should have been a hint.
HTC did their research as always and have given this aircraft to the winners of the voting.
The majority got what they wanted. NEXT! :x
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The majority got what they wanted. NEXT! :x
Next stop: Fairey Battle :bolt:
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Hotard assures me that he only attacks head on.
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Say nope to Frank-n-stein planes. :aok
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Next stop: Fairey Battle
Hey! The Battle was an uber plane, it was just used wrong! It would be a real contender in the LW arena, where people would know how to use it properly!
- oldman (just like the 110. Yeah, that's the ticket!)
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So now we're trying to make it better then it really is?
Should have researched before you voted. When the Luftwaffe pulled it that should have been a hint.
HTC did their research as always and have given this aircraft to the winners of the voting.
Yup, its already a game changer and i wantz to make it even bettah cuz imm DawidWhales :lol
Seriously speaking, the appropiate research was done. Ask Moot, he knows a lot more than me.
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The efficacy of the 410 barbettes depends on who aims them. You should hear the chatter on our squad channel...
"Hey, Vilkas, you want to gun for me?"
"No! Vilkas was gonna gun for *me*!"
"I invited Vilkas first!"
"Did not! *I* did!"
"You're *all* wrong! Vilkas is gunning for *me*!"
...und so weiter. ;)
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are they 13mm or 20mm the rear guns?
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Haven't had the chance to fly her yet, so can't comment on the rear gun. I did hear the mighty 410 downed zwei 262's. "WHO" would've guessed? :devil
The efficacy of the 410 barbettes depends on who aims them. You should hear the chatter on our squad channel...
"Hey, Vilkas, you want to gun for me?"
"No! Vilkas was gonna gun for *me*!"
"I invited Vilkas first!"
"Did not! *I* did!"
"You're *all* wrong! Vilkas is gunning for *me*!"
...und so weiter. ;)
I happened to be on range to hear what Vilkas, thought about the mannable 88's. :devil
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If you take the 2 extra 20mm and empty all the rear guns, and BBs the 410 weighed according to the E6B 20K
Giving it a 2K drop of weight not much of a difference in my opinion. :salute
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seems like some me410s removed the barbettes and all the rear gun equipment.
was this done to save weight?
would removing all the rear gun equipment make the 410 significantly lighter? (500-1000lbs?)
I don't see why not..... the tail removes faily easily...... saving weight too.
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are they 13mm or 20mm the rear guns?
13mm and you do not want to get hit by em, they hurt quite a bit :uhoh
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Field mods for the 190s first please. :noid :devil
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Fester! add me to your board! I sent you a pm
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Field mods for the 190s first please. :noid :devil
I believe anything more than 10gs is coded to kill the pilot.
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Next stop: Fairey Battle :bolt:
:lol
What was the RAF fighter with the 4 gun turret on it? I want that.
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:lol
What was the RAF fighter with the 4 gun turret on it? I want that.
Paul Defiant, and it was a terrible idea - its only success was early in WW2 due to fact german's mistook it for Hurricanes late in the Poney campaign and Early BoB, but afterwards they employed head on and belly shots which rendered it quite useless.
It had no forward firing guns, and rear turret was actually only 4x 303s in a powered turret, top speed also was pretty bad.
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What was the RAF fighter with the 4 gun turret on it? I want that.
no you really dont ...
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Is my humor really that complicated?
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Paul Defiant, and it was a terrible idea - its only success was early in WW2 due to fact german's mistook it for Hurricanes late in the Poney campaign and Early BoB, but afterwards they employed head on and belly shots which rendered it quite useless.
It had no forward firing guns, and rear turret was actually only 4x 303s in a powered turret, top speed also was pretty bad.
I was surprised to read that one squadron, 264 Squadron, had actually developed a successful defensive counter to single engine fighters like the Bf 109. 264 Sqn. pilots would enter into a descending Lufberry circle that prevented the Bf 109 attackers from being able to attack from underneath and gave the Defiants a 360 degree defensive fire. On May 29th, 1940 264 Sqn claimed 37 kills in two sorties (19 Ju87s, 9 Bf 110s, 8 Bf 109s and 1 Ju-88) and claimed 48 kills in total over an 8 day period during the Dunkirk evacuations with 14 Defiants lost.
ack-ack
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I was surprised to read that one squadron, 264 Squadron, had actually developed a successful defensive counter to single engine fighters like the Bf 109. 264 Sqn. pilots would enter into a descending Lufberry circle that prevented the Bf 109 attackers from being able to attack from underneath and gave the Defiants a 360 degree defensive fire. On May 29th, 1940 264 Sqn claimed 37 kills in two sorties (19 Ju87s, 9 Bf 110s, 8 Bf 109s and 1 Ju-88) and claimed 48 kills in total over an 8 day period during the Dunkirk evacuations with 14 Defiants lost.
ack-ack
Interesting info, wasn't it completely removed during BoB due to losses in combat? can't recall exact info on the Paul D, but I know once the germans started identifying it as not a hurricane they were quite easy to kill.
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fat chance it will happen.
410 will never be a dog fighter
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Is my humor really that complicated?
:D
it has to be the worst wishlist Ive seen which fits AH criteria. the coolest thing about it by a factor of 1000 is the name. I'm english and I'm embarassed we came even came up with the idea of the defiant :bolt:
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:D
it has to be the worst wishlist Ive seen which fits AH criteria. the coolest thing about it by a factor of 1000 is the name. I'm english and I'm embarassed we came even came up with the idea of the defiant :bolt:
Regardless of the plane's history, the Defiant crews were probably some of the bravest airmen to ever set foot in an airplane.
ack-ack
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:D
it has to be the worst wishlist Ive seen which fits AH criteria. the coolest thing about it by a factor of 1000 is the name. I'm english and I'm embarassed we came even came up with the idea of the defiant :bolt:
:aok :D
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Is my humor really that complicated?
Apparently it is.
Reminds me of an old story:
An American and an Englishman are traveling together through England in the
Englishman's car. The car stops at an intersection and the American
observes a sign, which reads:
"Woolston-on-Rye, three miles left. If you are illiterate, ask the
blacksmith for directions."
The American cackles with laughter. The Englishman smiles nervously, and
says, "I'm not certain I understand what's so funny." The American, still
chuckling, decides not to embarrass his friend, and simply waves off further
inquiry. As they motor down the road, the Englishman repeatedly mumbles to
himself, "I wonder what was so funny?"
Finally, ten minutes later, the Englishman breaks into peals of laughter.
"I get it now," he shouts. "What if the blacksmith isn't home!"
- oldman
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Apparently it is.
Reminds me of an old story:
An American and an Englishman are traveling together through England in the
Englishman's car. The car stops at an intersection and the American
observes a sign, which reads:
"Woolston-on-Rye, three miles left. If you are illiterate, ask the
blacksmith for directions."
The American cackles with laughter. The Englishman smiles nervously, and
says, "I'm not certain I understand what's so funny." The American, still
chuckling, decides not to embarrass his friend, and simply waves off further
inquiry. As they motor down the road, the Englishman repeatedly mumbles to
himself, "I wonder what was so funny?"
Finally, ten minutes later, the Englishman breaks into peals of laughter.
"I get it now," he shouts. "What if the blacksmith isn't home!"
- oldman
:lol
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Fester! add me to your board! I sent you a pm
huh?
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have had several instances where back guns have saved me couple times from a zeke couple spittys and a 109, tho they r hard to hit with, but r fun guns to use gives someoen a big surprise
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Sounds like a field mod to me. That would open an ungodly slippery slope.
Wiley.
I want the option to remove my navigator from the Mossie VI. He is completely useless dead weight, just sitting there smoking and use foul language. I bet that him, his seat, his oxygen bottle, his share of inflight refreshments and ego is at least 2000 lbs.
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scored my first 410 kill the other day against patton. Although I did down him I didn't rtb to tell the story those rear guns carry quite a punch. He took my engine out, one control surface, and several holes in cockpit. If ya have a good rear gunner it can be quite a surprise for attacking ac.
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:D
it has to be the worst wishlist Ive seen which fits AH criteria. the coolest thing about it by a factor of 1000 is the name. I'm english and I'm embarassed we came even came up with the idea of the defiant :bolt:
The idea of the Defiant could very well have been inspired by the the Bristol Fighter of WWI. The Defient was designed prior to the war before it was evident tactics had to change with the new altitudes speeds and firepower. When it hit the drawing board it probably seemed like a very formidable aircraft.
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There is a WWII fighter with a four gun turret on it that would likely be pretty successful in AH.....
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There is a WWII fighter with a four gun turret on it that would likely be pretty successful in AH.....
Blackburn ROC
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/roc/roc-8.jpg)
or Hawker Hotspur?
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/hotspur/hotspur-2.jpg)
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Boulton_Paul_Defiant_ExCC.jpg)
ugly aircraft! :old:
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Boulton_Paul_Defiant_ExCC.jpg)
ugly aircraft! :old:
Yep Butch it is
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a rear gunner of an 110g2 sent me to the tower with a pk in my a8 a couple of tours ago, didnt think it was possible for a be-be gun to penetrate front glas of an a8 at all :huh
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a rear gunner of an 110g2 sent me to the tower with a pk in my a8 a couple of tours ago, didnt think it was possible for a be-be gun to penetrate front glas of an a8 at all :huh
110 guns are not BeBe 7.9mm fire in Real life did do some pretty good damage
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a rear gunner of an 110g2 sent me to the tower with a pk in my a8 a couple of tours ago, didnt think it was possible for a be-be gun to penetrate front glas of an a8 at all :huh
Doubt he got you through the front windscreen armor. He probably got you through the aluminum side or belly.
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Blackburn ROC
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/roc/roc-8.jpg)
or Hawker Hotspur?
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/hotspur/hotspur-2.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Northrop_P-61_green_airborne.jpg/786px-Northrop_P-61_green_airborne.jpg)
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Northrop_P-61_green_airborne.jpg/786px-Northrop_P-61_green_airborne.jpg)
I would have never figured you for wanting another American plane. :P
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I would have never figured you for wanting another American plane. :P
The only reason I don't advocate for American aircraft is that we have so very many of them, including almost all of the core aircraft. If we didn't have the P-47 or P-38 or P-51 or F4U I'd be pushing for any one of those aircraft to be added ASAP.
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A battery of 4 x .30 cal guns on a rear turret are not going to save you from the torrent of heavy mg and cannon coming your way, by the time you get a snapshot off they have blown your wing and tail off. Think P-40 or Hurricane with a rear turret while it takes hits; no Sturmovik armor, and just one engine. Flying deliberatley in front of a fighter to shoot rear guns is insane. I suppose now and then you would get the best of an attacker but its not a recipe for long term success more like The Wooden Cross.
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The idea of the Defiant could very well have been inspired by the the Bristol Fighter of WWI. The Defient was designed prior to the war before it was evident tactics had to change with the new altitudes speeds and firepower. When it hit the drawing board it probably seemed like a very formidable aircraft.
+10..EXACTLY...and that is what half of the NAY SAYERS forget when someone suggests a plane be introduced into AH.
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Mosty people don't understand that not only can they turn the AC with rudder while in a gun position,they can also set there speed to auto climb at 250, when the air speed drops after the climb the nose will dip down and try to regain speed,this causes a slow up and down motion,coupled with your rudder turning. MUCH better then a plane flying level dodging back and forth through the enemy's gun fire.
Best thing is it can be done in any ac with rear guns, and in bomber formations it can become deadly.
Try it some time guys, you wont ever consider your fighter bomber/bomber a sitting duck. ;) (worse comes to worse it gives the impression your bomber is being manned by another gunner, and that will always give you a psychological advantage.
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+10..EXACTLY...and that is what half of the NAY SAYERS forget when someone suggests a plane be introduced into AH.
Your comment makes no sense, Peyton.