Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1pLUs44 on August 29, 2012, 03:39:57 PM
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(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/grandpa.jpg)
This is a picture of my grandfather at some point during the second world war. He was in the 45th Infantry Division from the beginning of the war to the end (G Co. 180th Infantry regiment)
My dad and I are finally starting to put together some of his old war letters and photos and we can't seem to find out where this picture was taken. I googled around but I haven't seen anything familiar and I was wondering if anybody may be familiar with where this statue is located so we can have a good idea of when this picture was taken.
Edit: There appears to be some kind of writing on the statue (Le Lura, or something like that) that I thought I should point out. I searched the phrase but still couldn't find anything.
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Wow that is really cool sir!! :O ,i'll be sure to let you know if i can find anything, thanks for sharing :salute :cheers:
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Did some digging Pluss.
Found out some pretty interesting stuff.
That photo, by the Phrase and the Architecture, and by looking at the 45th's service record. Was probably taken during Operation Dragoon, The invasion of the Southern Coast of France (ordered by Churchill) after the Italian Campaign.
If its not there its definitely Italy somewhere. Its Christian definitely, possibly near a building of official function like a Church or Monastic Library or maybe Town Hall.
My guess would be one of three places.
Comiso in Sicily, Salerno in Italy, Or Grenoble in Southern France. Or at least towns and counties in the area of those places. The Tiered Construction of the building behind him suggests French though. But Im not an expert.
Start looking near or around one of those places.
Hope I Helped, probably didn't though
:salute
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It kinda looks like there's some writing on that statute.
Keep us posted if find out where this was taken. Love a good mystery.
Coogan
Edit: didn't notice the OP's edit, before I replied.
Good luck.
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It kinda looks like there's some writing on that statute.
Keep us posted if find out where this was taken. Love a good mystery.
Coogan
yeah it means 'The Lura'
happy to help ;)
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Building look like UK to me. :old:
There is Lion n Chicago with the same buildings as well.
It looks like someone is on its back.
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There is Lion n Chicago with the same buildings as well.
It looks like someone is on its back.
There are 2 Lions at the Art Institute of Chicago.
Lions at the Art Institute of Chicago
Flanking the entrance to the Art Institute of Chicago, Edward Kemeys' lions are among the city’s most beloved and recognizable sculptures. A largely self-taught artist who became famous for his sculptures of wild animals, Edward Kemeys (1843-1907), established a studio in Chicago in 1892. The following year, the World’s Columbian Exposition in Jackson Park showcased twelve of his sculptures in plaster including massive jaguars, bears, and bison. At the fair, Kemeys’ lions were placed at the entrance to the Fine Arts Palace (now the Museum of Science and Industry). Mrs. Henry Field donated the funds to recast the lions in bronze and install them in front of the Art Institute’s new building in Grant Park in 1894.
Prior to their official dedication, the Chicago Tribune reported that Kemeys said that the lions were "conceived as guarding the building.” He explained that the south lion is “attracted by something in the distance which he is closely watching,” and that the north lion “has has back up, and is ready for a roar and a spring.” Kemeys was considered the leader of the American animaliers, a movement that began in France in the mid- nineteenth century in which artists studied living animals to produce their sculptures.
http://www.explorechicago.org/city/en/things_see_do/attractions/park_district/lions__in_grant_park.html
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It looks like someone is on its back.
biggest clue right there, well done Watson! :aok
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It is one of the statues on the Pont Alexandre III bridge in Paris.
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I would have guessed the Feldherrnhalle in Munich, but on closer inspection I think not.
There is a French department called "Le Jura", closest thing that springs to mind, apparently there's also a Swiss canton by that name. Web says the 45th ID passed through Besancon, which is the capital of the Jura department. Architecture seems a touch grand for Besancon though, it's a country town.
Alternatively, La Lura is a river in Italy, it seems, up in the hills north of Milan.
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It is one of the statues on the Pont Alexandre III bridge in Paris.
The buildings surrounding it don't match. But very similar though.
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(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/grandpa.jpg)
This is a picture of my grandfather at some point during the second world war. He was in the 45th Infantry Division from the beginning of the war to the end (G Co. 180th Infantry regiment)
My dad and I are finally starting to put together some of his old war letters and photos and we can't seem to find out where this picture was taken. I googled around but I haven't seen anything familiar and I was wondering if anybody may be familiar with where this statue is located so we can have a good idea of when this picture was taken.
Edit: There appears to be some kind of writing on the statue (Le Lura, or something like that) that I thought I should point out. I searched the phrase but still couldn't find anything.
Looks a bit like Holkham Hall
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/6551414605_f20f4cafe0_z.jpg)
Maybe a start...
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Can't wait to see what all turns up
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Looks a bit like Holkham Hall
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/6551414605_f20f4cafe0_z.jpg)
Maybe a start...
That one and the one at the Art Institute look very similar, but there are some differences I can still see (tail length/position, also it seems the lion is at the top of a staircase instead of the bottom of one).
I'm looking far and wide at this point. I might contact the 45th Infantry Div. Museum historian to see if he might recognize the area. We took a road trip up there about a month ago and got the pleasure of being invited into the library room and got to look at some old after action reports and we looked in a 1938 Division year book (I think that's what it's called) and we've been trying to organize it and send it to the guy. He also talked to us about a new book that a fellow by the name of Alex Kershaw wrote that's about to be released and explained the story behind it (Sounds like a really good one too!) and we'll soon have our own copy once it's released.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Liberator-Soldiers-500-Day-Odyssey/dp/0449012638
The true story of the bloodiest and most dramatic march to victory of the Second World War: the battlefield odyssey of a maverick U.S. Army officer and his infantry unit as they fought for over five hundred days to liberate Europe - from the invasion of Italy to the gates of Dachau.
From July 10, 1943, the date of the Allied landing in Sicily, to May 8, 1945, when victory in Europe was declared – the entire time it took to liberate Europe – no regiment saw more action, and no single platoon, company, or battalion endured worse, than the ones commanded by Felix Sparks, who had entered the war as a greenhorn second lieutenant of the 157th “Eager for Duty” Infantry Regiment of the 45th “Thunderbird” Division. Sparks and his fellow Thunderbirds fought longest and hardest to defeat Hitler, often against his most fanatical troops, when the odds on the battlefield were even and the fortunes of the Allies hung in the balance – and when the difference between defeat and victory was a matter of character, not tactics or armor.
Drawing on extensive interviews with Sparks and dozens of his men, as well as over five years of research in Europe and in archives across the US, historian Alex Kershaw masterfully recounts one of the most inspiring and heroic journeys in military history. Over the course of four amphibious invasions, Sparks rose from captain to colonel as he battled from the beaches of Sicily through the mountains of Italy and France, ultimately enduring bitter and desperate winter combat against the diehard SS on the Fatherland’s borders. Though he lost all of his company to save the Allied beach-head at Anzio and an entire battalion in the dark forests of the Vosges, Sparks miraculously survived the long bloody march across Europe and was selected to lead a final charge to Bavaria to hunt down Adolf Hitler.
In the dying days of the Third Reich, Sparks and his men crossed the last great barrier in the West, the Rhine, only to experience some of the most intense street fighting and close combat suffered by Americans in WWII. When they finally arrived at the gates of Dachau, Hitler’s first and most notorious concentration camp, the Thunderbirds confronted scenes that robbed the mind of reason. With victory within grasp, Sparks confronted the ultimate test of his humanity: after all he had faced, could he resist the urge to wreak vengeance on the men who had caused untold suffering and misery?
Written with the narrative drive and vivid immediacy of Kershaw’s previous bestselling books about American infantrymen in WWII, The Liberator is a story for the ages, an intensely human and dramatic account of one of history’s greatest warriors and his unheralded role in America’s finest achievement – the defeat of Nazi Germany.
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It is one of the statues on the Pont Alexandre III bridge in Paris.
To further expound on this. I cracked open an old book from college, in the basement. That appears to be a Bronze statue of "Lion Qui Marche" by Antoine-Louis Barye, or at least a version of it.
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Try Twin Lions of Palermo
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Try Twin Lions of Palermo
outside of the Palermo Theater? Never thought about that. That is correct, looking at the pictures. Well done Filth.
Edit. The ONLY thing bothering me is the smaller pedestal in the WWII photo.
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outside of the Palermo Theater? Never thought about that. That is correct, looking at the pictures. Well done Filth.
Edit. The ONLY thing bothering me is the smaller pedestal in the WWII photo.
There are other differences too.
The base of the tail is different, the mane is different, and the lion in the OP's post is on a base that angles "downhill", while the one's at Palermo are going "uphill". The dirt "base" in the OP's photo is also "flat" while the ones at Palermo have more contour.
In the OP's photo, is the "person" on the lions back part of the statue? Or is it another soldier?
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I can't tell you. I only have this picture and another picture of him taken shortly after Anzio.
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I did a vacation tour in London about 15 years ago and I thought I remember seeing that statue outside of one of the official buildings from the WWII War ministry . You could take a tour of the Churchill bunker . Did your grandfather stage in England?
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this looks like bronze doesn't it
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Difficult find, the lion is such a widespread symbol in europe it is difficult to track down where it is. I visited grenoble with google street and other websites, couldn't find any lion. It's definitely not the Alexandre III bridge.
La Luna could be the artist name, or just a random degradation. The background tells me it could definitely be in france, or italy.
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Or the UK :old:
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I was searching luna, found a funny picture :lol
(http://lancien.cowblog.fr/images/Animaux2/sCOWJUMPJUMPINGCOWlarge300.jpg)
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Had some fun googling for lion statues. I doubt it's the UK. That is somewhere hot by the look of it and he's not dressed like any GI on a visit to London would be. He's wearing fatigues.
The lions at the Teatro Massimo in Palermo are very similar but the background is wrong. So it could be Italy. But where? I wonder did he make it to Rome?
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yes it looks hot +1
This is the best thread at present :)
I think its probly Italy of France :)
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There are other differences too.
The base of the tail is different, the mane is different, and the lion in the OP's post is on a base that angles "downhill", while the one's at Palermo are going "uphill". The dirt "base" in the OP's photo is also "flat" while the ones at Palermo have more contour.
In the OP's photo, is the "person" on the lions back part of the statue? Or is it another soldier?
He said twin lions :)
Teatro Massimo has two statues. They are not identical but they both have a female rider :aok
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if you google image search, there are hardly any lions with a woman riding them. women and lions in mythology doesnt ring any bells for me apart from maybe Ariadne.
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columbia lion statue? that is a tough find. I looked for an entire 10 minutes and can't find it. :bhead
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I did a search for that statue in French, could find a single lion being ridden. If someone writes Italian maybe he can search...
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Try google i mages search brozre Lion statue rider.
I wonder how many different peopel with different lions Masherbrum is going say have the right lion. Guess he has to be rigth eventually. :banana:
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Gotta love the personal attacks. :aok
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Romanian / "lor lume" means "Their world"
Italian - means "their light"
I believe the reference "lor lumme" is possibly from a Guy Gilpatric book.
this just in...
It is indeed a euphemistic or 'minced oath' version of "God love me" - with the verb, here, in the optative mood ("may God love me" or "as I hope God loves me") to invoke the Deity as guarantor of the speaker's sincerity. An analogue is "corblimey" < "God blame me", that is, May God impute sin to me (if I'm not speaking the truth).
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Gotta love the personal attacks. :aok
Yeah been savin gtheat as a response to a post in another thread, the other thread was nice n purse fighty already so I decided to sit on that one. Maybe of someone would send me some famous homebrew id mello.
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He said twin lions :)
Teatro Massimo has two statues. They are not identical but they both have a female rider :aok
Yup, I knew that already. I'd looked at both before I posted.
I could easily be incorrect, but I don't believe either one is the statue we're looking for.
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Had some fun googling for lion statues. I doubt it's the UK. That is somewhere hot by the look of it and he's not dressed like any GI on a visit to London would be. He's wearing fatigues.
The lions at the Teatro Massimo in Palermo are very similar but the background is wrong. So it could be Italy. But where? I wonder did he make it to Rome?
He was in every major battle that G Co. 180th Infantry regiment was in. I'd like to say it's after Anzio because in another picture we have, he talks about how skinny he got from getting sick in the opening part of the battle on the back. And he doesn't look much bigger in this picture. I'll try and scan it on here.
All in all, I'd still like to thank everybody who is helping me with this. Y'all deserve a big :salute
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(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/grandpa.jpg)
This is a picture of my grandfather at some point during the second world war. He was in the 45th Infantry Division from the beginning of the war to the end (G Co. 180th Infantry regiment)
My dad and I are finally starting to put together some of his old war letters and photos and we can't seem to find out where this picture was taken. I googled around but I haven't seen anything familiar and I was wondering if anybody may be familiar with where this statue is located so we can have a good idea of when this picture was taken.
Edit: There appears to be some kind of writing on the statue (Le Lura, or something like that) that I thought I should point out. I searched the phrase but still couldn't find anything.
Great picture and quest to find the location. My moms oldest brother was in the Thunderbirds. They sailed straight to North Africa from the US. They arrived in 43, and my uncle said his duty was palace guard until they went to Sicily. Looks like he has a nice tan, maybe some place in Morocco?
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I looked all over for lions around Morocco.
Times do change. My dads family lived along the Texas coast in the late 30's and early 40's. Dad took me to Galveston, TX in the late 60's as a 6 year old. Galveston had some abandoned ww11 shore batteries and pill boxes. Then in the mid 90'. To my surprise, they built a holiday inn on top of one of the artillery battery's. Hope you find that lion!
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i'm curious now, mind if i share it on a bigger sight?
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I dont have a picture but I think you are looking at (ironically) the statue of Lyric Opera (woman on a lion) standing before the Teatro Massimo opera house. There are two lion statues there both of which are different from one another. The other lion (not the one here) is usually the one photographed and I dont know why. That would be Palermo, Italy.
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I dont have a picture but I think you are looking at (ironically) the statue of Lyric Opera (woman on a lion) standing before the Teatro Massimo opera house. There are two lion statues there both of which are different from one another. The other lion (not the one here) is usually the one photographed and I dont know why. That would be Palermo, Italy.
nope it is nether of those.
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Yes. It is.
http://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-32937338/stock-photo-statue-of-lyric-opera-before-teatro-massimo,-palermo,-italy
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Yes. It is.
http://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-32937338/stock-photo-statue-of-lyric-opera-before-teatro-massimo,-palermo,-italy
nope :aok
look at the base, there is a much larger over hang on those and they are way above the stairs, whereas what he posted is right at the top of the stairs.....
....beside the whole body has a different stance then the one he posted....yes they are similar, but not the one he is looking for.
the one he posted, has more of a crouched down stance.....its head is lower...hell man the whole base is different :aok
not the same ones....unless they were completely changed :neener:
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Yes. At the Opera they will tell you that during the war the less impressive statues were in place in order to save the originals. Paris did the same with a lot of their pieces in order to protect them from theft and/or damage. There are other possibilities but I think is the most likely.
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Yes. At the Opera they will tell you that during the war the less impressive statues were in place in order to save the originals. Paris did the same with a lot of their pieces in order to protect them from theft and/or damage. There are other possibilities but I think is the most likely.
hmmmmm.....I highly doubt that, I guess it could be true......but sounds like you are reaching a bit.....or just trying to stuff 10 lbs of crap into a 5 lb bag :P
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the statue is a different size, the steps are completely different, the plinth is completely different, and there was no building like the one in the background before, during or after the war. this photo is not of the Teatro Massimo.
the woman on lion is a good spot though, any idea who it is?
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The opera house and the street beside it were remodelled in the 1990s. The building to the northwest was knocked down in the 1990s to increase parking for the opera. The best evidence that this is the site is that this is exactly where the army unit mentioned was stationed.
38° 7'14.21"N 13°21'28.23"E if you want to see it from Google Earth.
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what about the steps? they havent changed since the 1890s. or the plinth? or the size of the statue?
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close but no. you are more then welcome to think it is the one though. :cheers:
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Not the same statue. Look at the tail in the OP, it is horizontal and stays straight in line with the lion's back for some length. In your picture the tail immediately slopes downward.
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Honestly, I have no idea about the location, and whether or not they may have swapped statues at some point to protect one...
The statue in the photograph is obviously not one of the ones currently at the Teatro Massimo though.
For what it's worth, I'm quite convinced that the object on the lion in the OP's photo isn't a woman at all.
It's definitely not a woman similar to the ones at the Teatro Massimo. The one at the Teatro that most closely resembles the OP's photo is the one where the woman is blowing a horn (the other one is on the wrong side of the lion). The woman with a horn has a gown or pad that drapes down the side of the lion. This gown isn't present on the OP's photo. Also, her hips are completely wrong to match his photo.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/goldenhen/1432475345/lightbox/
Maybe there's a chance the OP's photo has been reversed?? If so, the second lion statue at would jump out as a possibility... But then, the lion would be facing the wrong direction, the tail is wrong, etc...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12334578@N02/1431090205/lightbox/
It's not one of these two lions.
I'm also noticing other facets of the sculpture that I find interesting (I do have a degree in art, and have a lot of art history under my belt...). For one, the facial rendering and musculature in the OP's lion along with the way the mane is rendered differ enough from the lions at Massimo to convince me it isn't even the same artist, maybe not even from the same region or "school of thought" as the artist who rendered the Massimo lions. I personally don't find the one in the OP's photo as appealing as the lions at Massimo. I think the head looks too big, and the body too short lengthwise.
Also, I'm suspicious of the object on the back of the lion. Why is the soldier being photographed in front of the lion? What was his (or the photographer's) train of thought?? The "goal" was obviously to show the two of them together (both are subjects), so why not show the entire statue? Why leave one of the key facets of the statue out? If there was a woman on the statue, I would think we'd see more of her in the photo. Maybe the photo is cropped.
Maybe it's a duffel bag. Or at least it's not a person's "rump" that we're seeing. Maybe a leg, with the knee at the lower right?
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Honestly, I have no idea about the location, and whether or not they may have swapped statues at some point to protect one...
The statue in the photograph is obviously not one of the ones currently at the Teatro Massimo though.
For what it's worth, I'm quite convinced that the object on the lion in the OP's photo isn't a woman at all.
It's definitely not a woman similar to the ones at the Teatro Massimo. The one at the Teatro that most closely resembles the OP's photo is the one where the woman is blowing a horn (the other one is on the wrong side of the lion). The woman with a horn has a gown or pad that drapes down the side of the lion. This gown isn't present on the OP's photo. Also, her hips are completely wrong to match his photo.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/goldenhen/1432475345/lightbox/
Maybe there's a chance the OP's photo has been reversed?? If so, the second lion statue at would jump out as a possibility... But then, the lion would be facing the wrong direction, the tail is wrong, etc...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12334578@N02/1431090205/lightbox/
It's not one of these two lions.
I'm also noticing other facets of the sculpture that I find interesting (I do have a degree in art, and have a lot of art history under my belt...). For one, the facial rendering and musculature in the OP's lion along with the way the mane is rendered differ enough from the lions at Massimo to convince me it isn't even the same artist, maybe not even from the same region or "school of thought" as the artist who rendered the Massimo lions. I personally don't find the one in the OP's photo as appealing as the lions at Massimo. I think the head looks too big, and the body too short lengthwise.
Also, I'm suspicious of the object on the back of the lion. Why is the soldier being photographed in front of the lion? What was his (or the photographer's) train of thought?? The "goal" was obviously to show the two of them together (both are subjects), so why not show the entire statue? Why leave one of the key facets of the statue out? If there was a woman on the statue, I would think we'd see more of her in the photo. Maybe the photo is cropped.
Maybe it's a duffel bag. Or at least it's not a person's "rump" that we're seeing. Maybe a leg, with the knee at the lower right?
now that you mention it, what is on top of the Lion in the OP's pic...is not part of the statue.....definitely not. :aok
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looks like sidesaddle to me, which suggests a woman. classical women were rather ... um ... fuller in the figure than todays fashion.
(http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/oNq-yJRmsOci-mif05Hczg/l.jpg)
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Riding horses is odd :old:
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looks like sidesaddle to me, which suggests a woman. classical women were rather ... um ... fuller in the figure than todays fashion.
(http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/oNq-yJRmsOci-mif05Hczg/l.jpg)
na...its not part of the statue.....totally different...it is some kind of fabric.... :aok
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yes its supposed to look like fabric, although in a stylised, sculpted kinda way ...
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yes its supposed to look like fabric, although in a stylised, sculpted kinda way ...
na..... it has none of the age to it.....it would have the same consistency(color) of the material if it was a part of the statue.....
there is no Age to it apart from the photo itself.
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I dont see it, we'll have to disagree on that one.
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i'm curious now, mind if i share it on a bigger sight?
You are more than welcome to sir. :salute
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looks like sidesaddle to me, which suggests a woman. classical women were rather ... um ... fuller in the figure than todays fashion.
(http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/oNq-yJRmsOci-mif05Hczg/l.jpg)
Look at the angles and anatomy, and I think you'll see where this doesn't work (Google some side saddle images for more clarity, you can find a rider in the same position as the supposed rider on the lion).
When riding side saddle, the rider's forward knee is almost always higher than her pelvis; sometimes nearly level with it, but seldom lower than it. It is is arguably lower, the angle is very slight.
That would mean the "lion rider" would have to be facing backwards, so what we see as potentially her knee would actually be her buttock. If it is her buttock that angles down and to the left, she's also nearly falling off of the lion. In order to get her left cheek that low she'd need to be facing backward,leaning way over, and sticking her rump out (towards us). Very odd.
Now, look at the folds, and try to envision how they'd occur. They wouldn't occur "naturally" at all. They almost have to be forced.
I'm not positive it isn't part of the statue, and that it isn't a rider, but I highly doubt it. I can't wait to see it positively identified.
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no need, Ive seen girls with fat arses riding bareback sidesaddle, and it pretty much looks like that. Ive even tried it myself. I slid off :D
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Look at the angles and anatomy, and I think you'll see where this doesn't work (Google some side saddle images for more clarity, you can find a rider in the same position as the supposed rider on the lion).
When riding side saddle, the rider's forward knee is almost always higher than her pelvis; sometimes nearly level with it, but seldom lower than it. It is is arguably lower, the angle is very slight.
That would mean the "lion rider" would have to be facing backwards, so what we see as potentially her knee would actually be her buttock. If it is her buttock that angles down and to the left, she's also nearly falling off of the lion. In order to get her left cheek that low she'd need to be facing backward,leaning way over, and sticking her rump out (towards us). Very odd.
Now, look at the folds, and try to envision how they'd occur. They wouldn't occur "naturally" at all. They almost have to be forced.
I'm not positive it isn't part of the statue, and that it isn't a rider, but I highly doubt it. I can't wait to see it positively identified.
I am very convinced its not part of the statue...I feel a bit ashamed I didn't pick right up on it. :o
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no need, Ive seen girls with fat arses riding bareback sidesaddle, and it pretty much looks like that. Ive even tried it myself. I slid off :D
Of what, lions or fat chicks? :banana:
Coogan
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:lol
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(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/grandpa.jpg)
This is a picture of my grandfather at some point during the second world war. He was in the 45th Infantry Division from the beginning of the war to the end (G Co. 180th Infantry regiment)
My dad and I are finally starting to put together some of his old war letters and photos and we can't seem to find out where this picture was taken. I googled around but I haven't seen anything familiar and I was wondering if anybody may be familiar with where this statue is located so we can have a good idea of when this picture was taken.
Edit: There appears to be some kind of writing on the statue (Le Lura, or something like that) that I thought I should point out. I searched the phrase but still couldn't find anything.
The top of the picture is too clean of a straight line. Can you post it again and show the full top edge... There may be a little more of what's on the lion's back that might help.
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It is Lyric Opera. The fabric you see is the womans dress and from the rear end.
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/Lyric_Opera.jpg)
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Ive even tried it myself. I slid off :D
Exactly. That's my point. It's not a woman riding side saddle.
BTW, Google shows all sorts of body-types riding side saddle. None of them line up with what we see on the saddle.
Maybe it's because the gals in the photos aren't falling off?
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It is Lyric Opera. The fabric you see is the womans dress and rearend.
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/Lyric_Opera.jpg)
Nope, click on the link I posted above. It shows the same statue from the rear.
Not even similar if you compare the two pictures.
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The image you posted is from another site and another sculptor. Two completely different interpretations. The theme of Lyric Opera is a common one across Italy and Europe but the point is this soldier was in Palermo so the opera is the only place that photo could have been taken.
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The image you posted is from another site and another sculptor. Two completely different interpretations. The theme of Lyric Opera is a common one across Italy and Europe but the point is
Awesome!
Please post a photo that shows the part of the statue that matches the one the OP has posted. I for one would like to see proof, rather than taking your word for it. I've looked at a bunch of photos of those statues, and haven't found any that match yet. I'm intrigued.
this soldier was in Palermo so the opera is the only place that photo could have been taken.
False logic, of course. He was nowhere else? Photos could not have been taken of him in any other location?
Let's ask the OP... Are there any other known photos of this gentleman, taken anywhere else in the world? Maybe at somebodies wedding or birthday?
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if this were true according to the locations of the statue his grandpa would have to be about 16 feet tall. The other statue would be in the backround. You are wrong.
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Challenge hates admitting he is wrong.
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The image you posted is from another site and another sculptor. Two completely different interpretations. The theme of Lyric Opera is a common one across Italy and Europe but the point is this soldier was in Palermo so the opera is the only place that photo could have been taken.
I may have misunderstood you. You are not stating that these are the same statue, correct?
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/Mtnman_03/Copyofstock-footage-teatro-massimo-palermo.jpg)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/Mtnman_03/grandpa.jpg)
Unfortunately, "across Italy and Europe" is a fairly large expanse, so doesn't really answer the question of where this statue is.
Also, since some lions are sculpted without any attempt to tie to that theme we cannot conclusively state that the one in question is meant to, correct?
It would be easy to dismiss this and just claim it's a lion from Palermo because it was the first one that jumped out at us.
The challenge is to identify the specific statue and location.
Don't give up so easily.
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mountian man use your fancy interwebz tricks to compare the columbia lion statue with the original would ya? :cheers:
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I may have misunderstood you. You are not stating that these are the same statue, correct?
I already told you that the setting has changed (the opera house was rebuilt/remodelled in the 1990s) and the statues from 1944 were different statues in order to protect the originals. Yes you can find "Lyric Opera" in many cities across Italy and Europe as a whole. Even Paris and some southern French cities have the same statue but by different artisans. You dont hire a sculptor from Italy to make a statue in France any more than you hire one from Palermo to make a statue in Celano.
Instead of debunking the statue use you elite skills to find another statue that matches the photo from the OP.
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mountian man use your fancy interwebz tricks to compare the columbia lion statue with the original would ya? :cheers:
Lots different with that one too.
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/Mtnman_03/CU_Lion.jpg)
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mtnman, in your image of the OP's photo, it would appear that it is another soldier mounting the lion. Just above where your line changes from the straight and angles down to the right, there is what appears to be a boot.
What is seen is the lower leg and knee. This appears to be the same olor as the soldier below.
Chalenge, none of your posted images come even close to the OPs lion.
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I already told you that the setting has changed (the opera house was rebuilt/remodelled in the 1990s) and the statues from 1944 were different statues in order to protect the originals. Yes you can find "Lyric Opera" in many cities across Italy and Europe as a whole. Even Paris and some southern French cities have the same statue but by different artisans. You dont hire a sculptor from Italy to make a statue in France any more than you hire one from Palermo to make a statue in Celano.
I haven't mentioned the setting yet, have I?
And your story is simply a little plausible; not nearly proven. I'm somewhat familiar with that history as well.
Can you offer any proof (at all) that the particular statue in the OP's photo played any part of the great protection swap? Or are you just making an assumption?
One way to do that would be to find photos of the old opera house (lion or no lion) so that we can compare it to the building behind the original photo. If it wasn't remodeled until the '90's, there are probably photos of the old building around?
You may very well be correct in your assumption. I'm not arguing that. I'd love to see you prove it. But assumption and absence of proof does not make fact. All you've shown so far is that there's currently a lion statue with a gal on it at Palermo. You haven't even shown that there's a gal on the original photo.
It's hard to take you at your word. I'm skeptical.
... find another statue that matches the photo from the OP.
Uh, hello...
That's what we're trying to do...
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What is seen is the lower leg and knee. This appears to be the same olor as the soldier below.
This is my guess as well.
But it's just a guess at this point. I haven't been able to conclusively ID either the building or the statue yet.
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as far as I can tell challenge is suggesting that during the war, to protect the existing statues, the entire approach to the theatre was removed and replaced by a completely different design where the steps finish at the base of the statues rather than 20yards further back at the entrance, and the new statues (which are much smaller) were placed on raised plinths rather than the existing ledges which ran level all the way back to the entrance. then after the war the whole lot (a coupla hundred tonnes of masonry, sculpture and rubble infill) were removed and it was all returned to the original design.
sounds plausible :aok
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I'm curious as to why some folks think this is a woman on a lion.
Really can't see too much in the OP's photo to depict that.
Coogan
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because there is something on the lion's back, about where a rider would be positioned. there are statues of men standing next to lions with their right arm resting across the lion's back, but there doesnt appear to be enough space behind 1pluss's grandfather for the man's legs to be hidden completely.
a rider makes most sense because lions arent really pack animals. if it were a man riding, you would expect to see his right leg extending down the right side. which leaves 2 likely possibilities: someone (man or woman) sitting facing sideways to the left, or someone riding sidesaddle and traditionally its women who ride sidesaddle.
its by no means certain, but it looks like the most likely explanation.
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Can you offer any proof (at all) that...
mtnman your over blown sense of self-importance is getting out of hand here. I merely came up with the most likely answer to the OPs question. If you have a more plausible solution post it. Im not here to prove anything.
Fact is... 1944 was a long time ago. You dont seem to be coming up with answers here but you are acting the total jerk with all this "Its hard to take you at your word" junk. Find another answer if your so full of information.
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DRAMA!!! :rock
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Did they have "Photoshop" in the 1940's?
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mtnman your over blown sense of self-importance is getting out of hand here. I merely came up with the most likely answer to the OPs question. If you have a more plausible solution post it. Im not here to prove anything.
Don't mistake the fact that I've pointed out the miss-identification of the statue (and supported that fact with visual evidence) with the idea that I feel more important than you or anyone else here.
What you came up with is obviously not "the most likely answer to the OPs question". It appears to be a guess based on circumstantial, incomplete and unsupported information.
If you can't ID the statue and its location, there's no shame in that. Nobody else can either at this point.
Fact is... 1944 was a long time ago.
I've been working on it. But you're correct, it was a long time ago.
For what it's worth, I've been researching it from the direction you alluded to. I've been looking into the history of the theater and whether the explanation you give could possibly be correct. I haven't found anything to support it yet, but I'm not finished either. If nothing else, I'd like to see if I can ID the building in the photo as part of the original theater.
You dont seem to be coming up with answers here but you are acting the total jerk with all this "Its hard to take you at your word" junk. Find another answer if your so full of information.
Don't be so sensitive, and don't take it as a personal attack on you or your credibility. I could have probably left off the "hard to take you at your word" part, but then again, that's all I had to go on, and it's hard to just go on that when the statues obviously aren't the same. Persisting with the claim that the ID was correct was annoying (I thought it was jerk-like, myself). I guess I'm kind of sorry about that wording, but not totally?
And pointing out the differences between the statues is something anyone who looks at them can do. I don't claim to be "full of information" when it comes to that. I may have more training in it than some, but it's just visual evidence that anyone can see if they take more than a passing glance.
Getting a positive ID may take a long time; and it's obviously not an easy task or we'd have it solved by now. It could take years, or even be impossible at this point. The statue may not even exist anymore. It may have been moved more than once, for more than one reason. Who knows?
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because there is something on the lion's back, about where a rider would be positioned. there are statues of men standing next to lions with their right arm resting across the lion's back, but there doesnt appear to be enough space behind 1pluss's grandfather for the man's legs to be hidden completely.
a rider makes most sense because lions arent really pack animals. if it were a man riding, you would expect to see his right leg extending down the right side. which leaves 2 likely possibilities: someone (man or woman) sitting facing sideways to the left, or someone riding sidesaddle and traditionally its women who ride sidesaddle.
its by no means certain, but it looks like the most likely explanation.
It's a good possibility. And if the object is part of the statue, it's most likely a rider.
I agree that it's highly unlikely that the object is a person standing with their arm resting on the lions back, for the reasons you've stated.
But, I think another (and possibly more likely) explanation is that the object on the lion isn't part of the statue at all. I think it's possible it was just a duffel (or other soft object) that this (or another) soldier was carrying and happened to have plunked over the lions back for a few minutes. Maybe he then turned around and someone took his photo? The photo has a pretty casual "snap-shot" type feel, so maybe they didn't bother (or care enough?) to make sure the background was cleaned up?
Or maybe it is a rider? But maybe still not part of the statue? Could it just be another soldier who was screwing around and climbed up on the lions back from the other side? And what we see is his right knee in front, with his right ankle still on the left side of the lions spine? And maybe that's why that part of the picture has been cut off? The fold and texture of the object look very similar to the texture of the soldier's shirt in the armpit area to me (but I'm speculating), and less like the texturing done to the lions mane and face.
The texturing/folds on that object seem too "sharp" to me, to be part of the lion. Then again, the texturing around the lions lower rear legs is also very sharp/crisp... Maybe that's due to the focusing of the camera? Or maybe the leg was been protected from weathering somehow? It doesn't seem as weathered as the lion's face.
Who knows?
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mtnman your over blown sense of self-importance is getting out of hand here. I merely came up with the most likely answer to the OPs question. If you have a more plausible solution post it. Im not here to prove anything.
Fact is... 1944 was a long time ago. You dont seem to be coming up with answers here but you are acting the total jerk with all this "Its hard to take you at your word" junk. Find another answer if your so full of information.
Actually I think MtNman has supported his argument pretty well and not in a egomaniacal way at all. If Krusty was here hed straighten all of this out. :old:
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His boots look shiny and his soles unworn...any possibility that this was taken before he shipped out? say in America or England?
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His boots look shiny and his soles unworn...any possibility that this was taken before he shipped out? say in America or England?
There's always a possibility, I still have yet to find anything. Somewhere earlier in this thread (I think it was Masherbrum who caught my attention to this) there was the mention of the type of statue that this is. Ironically, when I searched it, I found exact models (tail position, everything) to the actual statue itself. But I couldn't find the statue itself. :bhead
Also, I thought I'd share some more images that I think are pretty cool as well.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/img010-1.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/img011.jpg)
To anybody else who is curious, we also have about 2 dozen war letters on the computer that we've been scanning (out of a huge stack of about 200)
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There's always a possibility, I still have yet to find anything. Somewhere earlier in this thread (I think it was Masherbrum who caught my attention to this) there was the mention of the type of statue that this is. Ironically, when I searched it, I found exact models (tail position, everything) to the actual statue itself. But I couldn't find the statue itself. :bhead
Also, I thought I'd share some more images that I think are pretty cool as well.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/img010-1.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/img011.jpg)
To anybody else who is curious, we also have about 2 dozen war letters on the computer that we've been scanning (out of a huge stack of about 200)
Very curious... if you can post more. :aok
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It is a pleasure. Some of the writing is a little hard to read and in one of these letters my grandfather talks about capturing a German sniper with his colonel. He doesn't really talk about the war itself hardly at all in these.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1943Aug17-1.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1943August9.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1943Dec12.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1943Dec24.jpg)
He talks about Bill Mauldin in this one
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1943Dec29.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1943Nov14.jpg)
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(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1943Oct9.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1944Apr2.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1944Apr9.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/1944August1.jpg)
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Might want to try asking these guys
http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=8484169c-27d5-419a-a355-24955a671df3&wst=6&st=2 (http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=8484169c-27d5-419a-a355-24955a671df3&wst=6&st=2)
NwBie
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(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/grandpa.jpg)
This is a picture of my grandfather at some point during the second world war. He was in the 45th Infantry Division from the beginning of the war to the end (G Co. 180th Infantry regiment)
My dad and I are finally starting to put together some of his old war letters and photos and we can't seem to find out where this picture was taken. I googled around but I haven't seen anything familiar and I was wondering if anybody may be familiar with where this statue is located so we can have a good idea of when this picture was taken.
Edit: There appears to be some kind of writing on the statue (Le Lura, or something like that) that I thought I should point out. I searched the phrase but still couldn't find anything.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/grandpa.jpg)
Appears to be the "Sonnenberg Estate Lion Statue"
(http://images.topix.com/gallery/up-PEKL3IBD0IKUL0H5.jpg)
Though there appears to be a difference in the tail and the brow, but it seems close. Didn't go through all 7 pages. Still lookin'.
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Good lord! all this over a statue.
There are some instances when Occams Razor doesn't apply.
Like, This statue is very similar, despite extremely clear differences and since no one has found one that is closer, then that means this one must be the statue.
NO, it means that no one has found the right statue yet.
I suppose it's possible that in order to protect them the original statues were hauled off and replaced with very similar statues, but why would they go to that trouble instead of just hauling the statues off and not replacing them with very similar statues?
In any event, I don't think this case is solved yet.
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In any event, I don't think this case is solved yet.
No, absolutely not. I know mine was close but not quite. Perhaps the same sculpter created it? I don't know.
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Good lord! all this over a statue.
There are some instances when Occams Razor doesn't apply.
Like, This statue is very similar, despite extremely clear differences and since no one has found one that is closer, then that means this one must be the statue.
NO, it means that no one has found the right statue yet.
I suppose it's possible that in order to protect them the original statues were hauled off and replaced with very similar statues, but why would they go to that trouble instead of just hauling the statues off and not replacing them with very similar statues?
In any event, I don't think this case is solved yet.
Not quite, I contacted some members of the forum nwbie directed me to, and on a seperate World War 2 forum that has a fella who has some after action reports of G Co. 180th Infantry. I have yet to get a reply from either but it could take a day or 2. The only problem is I'm too impatient :lol
I did take another look at my grandfathers Sicily Sketchbook by Bill Mauldin, I'll scan it and post it on here in the next day or 2. He's got some more writing in it as well.
:salute
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This reminds me of the "nazi bunker.....secret room" thread on Pistonheads forums.
I keep coming back to see the rest of the story.
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I went looking through some more of my moms old family stuff and I found a G Company roster from the 180th Infantry Regiment that my grandfather checked off as "ok" to people who I guess made it out. I'm unaware if it was for the whole war, or one campaign but I'm scanning it and putting it up ASAP.
I also found out that my great uncle (my grandmother's brother) was a Mortar gunner on Guadalcanal and Bougainville as far as I know. Here is an old newspaper clipping that I found not even 2 minutes ago downstairs :O
Today is the first time I've ever even heard of George McMahon. I thought my only family member I had in the pacific was my Uncle on my dad's side, Charles Felker who was in the 27th Div. (Wounded on Saipan)
Infantry Badge To Abilenian: 10-1-44
WITH THE AMERICAL INFANTRY DIVISION SOMEWHERE IN THE SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA: For his performance of duty in action against the enemy on Bougainville, Pfc. George F. McMahon, 718 Willow St., Abilene, Texas, has been awarded the Combat Infantryman Badge.
The Badge, worn above the left breast pocket, is a silver rifle on a field of infantry blue within a silver border, an elliptical wreath in the background.
McMahon, overseas 10 months, is a mortar gunner in a veteran infantry regiment which fought at Guadalcanal, with other units of the Americal division securing the island Feb. 9 1943. Again on Bouganville, the regiment distinguished itself in the bloody battle for Hill 260.
The "Americal," the only division in the United States Army having a name instead of a number, was formed in New Caledonia in May, 1942 and derives its name from "Americans" and "New Caledonia" [/i]
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Thanks for posting the extra information and pictures 1Plus!
Very interesting...
My grandfather served in WWII in Europe, but that's about all know. He passed away back in the early '80's from cancer, and never spoke of the war with us. My grandmother also doesn't have any interest in discussing it. Based on my grandfathers "quietness" she may not know many details anyway...
I know he was on foot, and I know he was wounded twice, but that's about.
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Here's some things I could scan right quick before I leave for the day:
Newspaper Article that I typed before hand along with my great uncle.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/GMcMahon.jpg)
Now these next 2 articles are very cool and sobering IMHO. They are the G Company, 180th Infantry Roster at some point during or after the war. If you'll notice, my grandfather checked "ok" next to many names, but not all. Also, Jank Tredwell on that list is a MOH recipient. My grandfather is I think on the 2nd page, look for Rollie M Snell.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/img016.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/img017.jpg)
I have an old "Restricted Fighting on Guadalcanal" book from my uncle, and about 5 more photos that I found (3 of my grandfather during the war).
One of his old photos pictures him and another fellow and I'm going to send it to the 45th Infantry Division group and see if they can identify the man next to him.
Edit: They spelled my grandfather's name on here wrong, but it won't be hard to find.
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For what it's worth, the first picture of 1sum41's grandpa would probably be end of the war to postwar. He' wearing airborne jump boots, which he wouldn't have had shipping out with an infantry division. He apparently 'made a deal' somewhere for those :)
The airborne guys were never very happy to come across ground pounders wearing jump boots. Bill Mauldin of "Willie & Joe" fame was given a pair by some airborne guys but said he always felt conspicuous wearing them not being a paratrooper
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For what it's worth, the first picture of 1sum41's grandpa would probably be end of the war to postwar. He' wearing airborne jump boots, which he wouldn't have had shipping out with an infantry division. He apparently 'made a deal' somewhere for those :)
The airborne guys were never very happy to come across ground pounders wearing jump boots. Bill Mauldin of "Willie & Joe" fame was given a pair by some airborne guys but said he always felt conspicuous wearing them not being a paratrooper
:lol That's very cool that you noticed that. I could never tell any difference :salute
Edit: More stuff uploaded, I just found out we have a Mary Brian autograph(actress)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/1pLUs44/img023.jpg)
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I agree that this is the most interesting thread in years on this portion of the board. I've got your pic as my background pic - I occasionally see one of my kids flipping through lion statue pictures on google.
We were considering mapping the 180th's entire journey and checking towns each path along their way.
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I agree that this is the most interesting thread in years on this portion of the board. I've got your pic as my background pic - I occasionally see one of my kids flipping through lion statue pictures on google.
We were considering mapping the 180th's entire journey and checking towns each path along their way.
If you end up doing this to help me and my family, I would be more than grateful. :salute
Thank you.
At this point, we're just finding and scanning whatever we can manage to dig up. We actually have a surprising number of 45th Infantry Division newspapers and newspaper clippings (which is more or less rare since the ink on the paper was acidic so many of them have been destroyed just by father time itself)
I've also been googling the names on the G company roster that have an "ok" next to their names. If I'm lucky, I might be able to contact one of them and get some more of my grandfather's story from him before it's too late.
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I know this is an old thread, but am going to give it another round of searching
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I'm friends w/nerds Twitter & shared e/them. Please let me know if you object so I may take it down if that is your wish.
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I'm happy to see it back since the mystery wasn't solved.
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I did find what I think are replica statues of this, by Antoine Louis Barye (Le Lion Qui Marche). It feels like progress, even though it may not be.
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I'm looking again.
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I hadn't read through earlier pages that Masher found a bunch of the same stuff already.
Keep goin, y'all!
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Yes. It is.
http://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-32937338/stock-photo-statue-of-lyric-opera-before-teatro-massimo,-palermo,-italy
It's not.
Maybe similar lion, but they're footfalls are wrong in relation to the stairs, which have been that steep since before 1900.
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LOL.
There was a lot of shade tossed in this thread - Wow!
Can't we all just get along?
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LOL.
There was a lot of shade tossed in this thread - Wow!
Can't we all just get along?
You realize this is a very old thread.... :D
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A very old thread in which no answer was provided.
Just a lot of toejam talking, then silence.
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*NOW* I remember why there was shade... and not getting along...
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This was a fun read. A very interesting conundrum, indeed. I think Teatro Massimo's "Lyric" is not an option. Even if the lion depicted in the picture was not the same one that is currently there, the pedestals have not changed. Here is a photo from before the war, maybe even well before the war. As you can see, the pedestals have not changed. They certainly were not removed during the war and then put back after the war. Even if the statues were indeed replaced for safekeeping, they did not remove the pedestals and place little, short ones (depicted in photo) in their place. From what I can tell, the building facade in the background is definitely of Anglo-Saxon art. The Italians use round shapes, the Germans, Dutch, and English use straight lines. I think what we are looking for here is either in Germany or England.
(https://www.histouring.com/data/cch/addon_gallery/17941280x1024xy/fotostoria1_6.jpg)
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I agree.
Here's where he would have been:
Sicily, Jul 1943
Salerno, Sep 1943
Anzio, Jan 1944 (1plus thought it's after this point due to his weight loss)
Rome, June 1944
St. Maxime Fr Aug 1944
thru France through October 1944
Mutzig, Maginot Line 1944
Aschaffenburg, Nurnberg Jan 1945
Dachau Apr 1945
Munich thru VEday
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I know this is gonna be another crazy bump, but I was searching again through online records and came across this thread. I haven't been on the AH forums for nearly 7 or 8 years.
We've scanned more of his stuff and I'm going to request his records (if they survived that fire in the 70s).
That TV show on Netflix, The Liberator, covered a lot of the stuff he was involved in (though a different regiment). The book is better, but Flint Whitlock's The Rock of Anzio is MUCH better read in my opinion. If anyone is interested in the Italian Campaign, it's a great book written when many of the Greatest Generation was still there to put their own words to the pages.
Interesting fact, one of the names on that Unit Roster of his (Jack Treadwell) ended up earning himself the Medal of Honor in a different Company later in the war.
Not so long ago when I was on Sand Hill at Ft Benning, my Company was attached to the 3-47 Barracks as our Battalion Barracks (2-29) had not been finished yet. Those Barracks are named after him and I got to talk quite a bit with my cadre about my family history with the Army. Being in the Texas Army National Guard and now being a member of the 36th Infantry Division with a battle history that shared many triumps and tragedies with the 45th Infantry Division is something I take great pride in. I met some 45th Brigade (Oklahoma's guard unit) when I was at Airborne School and they're great guys who follow that same lineage. One was in the 180th before it converted to a Cav Regiment.
One of the crazier letters he wrote that my father had photocopied and sent to me when I was there was him talking about their breakout from the Anzio beachhead. They rucked for 7 days and nights chasing the German Army stopping to eat maybe once a day. Whitlock's book describes the same scene my grandfather wrote about in his letters about them using smelling salts to wake guys up who passed out in the middle of the road.
Another sobering fact was him talking about how after the Anzio campaign, there were less than 10 guys he had landed on Sicily with. I also learned that he had been in Naples recovering from a severe case of Pneumonia when his company had earned their Presidential Unit Citation and William Johnson had earner his Medal of Honor. The Pneumonia that nearly killed him at the same time, probably saved his life. G Company was nearly totally annihilated in that action, with a handful more survivors than Felix Sparks' I/157.
I hope all of you guys here are doing good. Mods, I hope this doesn't get you too upset but I couldn't help but reply to this after seeing all the due diligence TxMom had put forth researching this on behalf of my family. TxMom, thank you very much. We appreciate this more than you know after all of these years.
I practically grew up playing this game and playing here so it's good to see some familiar names after all of these years. I'm not a kid like I was and I hope I'm not as dumb as I was when yall knew me.
<S> 1pLUs44
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Well, bruh, since you bring it up again, I'll throw out my inflated 2 cents.
First, I downloaded the photobucket photo to my PC, and enlarged it as far as it would go, which is not that far.
To me, the lettering of the words on the sculpture do not look like La Lura or Le Lura.
The first letter is taller and differently shaped than the letter at the beginning of the second word, which I would agree is probably our L sound. To me, it is difficult to imagine that a sculpture artist would make such different letters if he or she intended the same letter. To me that would be quite sloppy.
To me, the first letter curves more like a cursive Sigma or what we'd call S. The second letter, after magnifying the photo, looks like Pi to me, not an "a" or "e". So to me the first two letters look like "Sigma, small Pi" - Sp - whatever that might be initials for.
Then the second word does look like it starts off will L and then u. But after that I think it reads "i" not "r". The last visible letter looks mostly to me like an "n" and that would make the word "Luin" which is a name I found in a very simple online search. Another possibility for the last letter might be "s" and that would possibly make the word "Luis" which is another name found online. Then, with "a" as another possibility, it might be "Luia", which I've also found online. For the last possibilty, it looks like some of the stone has been removed from directly below the last visible letter. So that that letter might have been "g". Since the photo is blurry at that magification, that "g" might be followed by a now impossible to recognize "i". In other words, it might possibly spell the name, "Luigi" an Italian name. Maybe.
Then, in the right margin of the photo, about 1/3 down, just slightly higher than the level of the lion's front paw, there is what sorta' looks like a fingerprint smudge on the negative. But when you increase magnification, it looks like it may possibly be a US Stars and Bars fluttering in the Italian breeze. Maybe. Anyway, the "bars" stop right at the edge of the building, which seems slightly odd if this was a fingerprint smudge on the negative.
So, my wild, wild guess is that this is somewhere in Rome, after Italy went full US ally.
But this is all only some slightly-informed guesses, so YMMV.
best wishes
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The picture has been taken at the Palazzo della Borsa, Napoli, Italy - Piazza Giovanni Bovio.
You can check in Google street view, it’s still there nowadays.
All best,
Marc
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And the sculptor of the winged lions is one Luigi de Luca indeed:
https://www.napoligrafia.it/monumenti/palazzi/borsa/borsa01.htm
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Bravo alkali. :aok Way to go!
It only took almost 9 years! :D
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Here's a link to a google map image:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8438279,14.25552,3a,22.7y,22.53h,92.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHfKFZ2MvhRXmoDxEQsz2hA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8438279,14.25552,3a,22.7y,22.53h,92.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHfKFZ2MvhRXmoDxEQsz2hA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
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The picture has been taken at the Palazzo della Borsa, Napoli, Italy - Piazza Giovanni Bovio.
You can check in Google street view, it’s still there nowadays.
All best,
Marc
Very cool! Finally got an answer after all of these years. It makes sense too considering he would have gone there on leave and was there when he was hospitalized with pneumonia.
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Midway !
where have you been? I miss shooting your T-34.....then waiting 3 seconds for it to blow up :D :D :D
(just kidding). I hope all is well. :salute
.....
I have looked at a lot of statues and have always thought about what the artist was trying to communicate.
ie. : Why were David's hands so big? The metaphor was something from that time period and maybe it does not have the same meaning today.
btw........His unit was pretty tiny as well LOL. That might be saying something....and we will never know.
:rolleyes:
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I spent hours with this. I am so glad we found it. Well done to you, sir.