Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on October 08, 2012, 09:14:01 AM
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I spent some time in the evil Spit16 (I know it is not evil = pilots are evil etc.). That plane is crazy...and fun. Plane after plane I went after were like fish out of water just flopping around waiting to die. Zero chance to live. Almost no one I encountered could escape or evade me. My maneuvers were nuts (felt like Zero-G at moments). I was able to make many mistakes - recover - and yet still be the aggressor! Toughest thing I found in the Spit16 was learning to avoid blacking out from my insane maneuvers.
I think thanks to the Spit16 new pilots can more quickly have a chance to compete.
It was scary and fun. I hate it and love it at the same time.
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I dont up the easy16 unless im expecting a 4+ vs me.
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Most people forget it can carry 1000 lbs of ord, too. It is a monster, no doubt. There isn't much it cant do. About it's only weakness is not being able to stay with the gun-n-run US fighters in a 500mph TAS dive.
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About it's only weakness is not being able to stay with the gun-n-run US fighters in a 500mph TAS dive.
I have not duplicated it yet but have been in 500 mph dives and Spit16s have been right there with me.
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I have not duplicated it yet but have been in 500 mph dives and Spit16s have been right there with me.
True... they can stay with you for most of the way. The margin is close, but in the end the P51 and P47 will be able to hang on to the top speed edge and inch away. If the alt started at 5000 ft then no, the Spit16 can and will keep up and then start splitting hairs.
If there is a plane in AH that needs a "performance check", it is the Spitfire Mk 16. It is one amazing plane. Truly amazing.
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I dont up the easy16 unless im expecting a 4+ vs me.
I can't even do that without feeling dirty for a week.
The old 16 never ceases to amaze me. Nearly unropeable. Only aircraft that is more insane in performance is the Brewster (thank goodness it's slow). Both planes seem to accelerate from a stop instantly and hold E for weeks...almost as if they have no weight or drag.
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Won't this bring up the old argument of, Perk the 16 and Unperk the 14?; or, Perk the 16?
Yes....I said it. :D
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Definitely my favorite plane to defend a field with. Enough ord to kill 2 stationary tanks and 1 moving tank and it maneuvers with the best fighters.
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I can't even do that without feeling dirty for a week.
The old 16 never ceases to amaze me. Nearly unropeable. Only aircraft that is more insane in performance is the Brewster (thank goodness it's slow). Both planes seem to accelerate from a stop instantly and hold E for weeks...almost as if they have no weight or drag.
Try doing some performance testing instead of just spewing idiotic hyperbole. You'll find that both follow the same rules every other aircraft follows.
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Try doing some performance testing instead of just spewing idiotic hyperbole. You'll find that both follow the same rules every other aircraft follows.
Try not to insult me for stating an opinion.
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Try not to insult me for stating an opinion.
Yeah he does that if you dont check with him first when posting anything about any aircraft. He also seems to miss the word SEEMS often
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He posted the same old BS whining and concern trolling that has been demonstrated to be false over and over. Facts are facts, thus your opinion is bluntly wrong. Being an opinion doesn't make it valid.
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He posted the same old BS whining and concern trolling that has been demonstrated to be false over and over. Facts are facts, thus your opinion is bluntly wrong. Being an opinion doesn't make it valid.
Being a sweetheart doesn't make you right.
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Love that autocorrect! :lol
You've never proven anything to me that i can remember. And I'm entitled to my opinion no matter how many times you come on these message boards and tell me I'm wrong. Insulting me is not helping your cause.
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He posted the same old BS whining and concern trolling that has been demonstrated to be false over and over. Facts are facts, thus your opinion is bluntly wrong. Being an opinion doesn't make it valid.
STOP BITING the bait , you dont have to take the bait everytime Karnak at least make it a challenge. And what has been demonstrated as false over and over about his OPINION(which by default cant be false) The fact thta the Spixteen may be overmodled or the fact that the Brewster is?
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Love that autocorrect! :lol
You've never proven anything to me that i can remember. And I'm entitled to my opinion no matter how many times you come on these message boards and tell me I'm wrong. Insulting me is not helping your cause.
You may have whatever opinion you want, but calling it an "opinion" as a method to give it validity is a false argument. The facts are that you are wrong.
You may have it as your opinion that the Earth is flat and the Sun orbits the Earth, but you would also be wrong.
If you post opinions that are wrong, don't get bent out of shape when others point out that you are wrong.
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You may have whatever opinion you want, but calling it an "opinion" as a method to give it validity is a false argument. The facts are that you are wrong.
You may have it as your opinion that the Earth is flat and the Sun orbits the Earth, but you would also be wrong.
If you post opinions that are wrong, don't get bent out of shape when others point out that you are wrong.
I havent sene any 'facts' otherwise Karnak, only your counterpoiunt that He is wrong. Igff you make the accusation you shoudl have the decency to back it up.
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You may have whatever opinion you want, but calling it an "opinion" as a method to give it validity is a false argument. The facts are that you are wrong.
You may have it as your opinion that the Earth is flat and the Sun orbits the Earth, but you would also be wrong.
If you post opinions that are wrong, don't get bent out of shape when others point out that you are wrong.
Sigh...I can say that it SEEMS the sun revolves around the earth even if I know it not to be true. You don't SEEM to understand that. All you ever do is chime in and say I'm wrong. You never site any this proof you speak of anywhere (at least not to me). Maybe you have me confused with someone else. HT is not infallible. This game is not the end all be all of WWII aviation. One example is the adjustment to the P-40 when they updated the art. If the flight model was perfect to start, why adjust it? Perhaps it SEEMED to perform outside its envelope? Just the same way the Corsair SEEMS to turn a little better and be more stable than the real thing was reported to be.
So why don't you just get off my ankle and do something usefull like look up the word opinion.
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Late Spit XI's (Spit16 is one version) were truly uber in R/L too. There were no other aircraft, allied or axis, that could match them in a dog fight.
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Then why are they apparently F4U, Ki84, G14 and K4 fodder in this game?
Rhetorical question. Each of those excells in a small window of opportunity the spit16 can be pulled into becasue the average unwary spit16 pilot beleives in the overall manuverability of the spit16 against almost the whole plane set rather than his experience. I still wonder how 150 Octane would help the spit16 and spit8 perform on WEP in our normal low level armed synchronised aerobatics competitions. You might hold directional control longer at the end of the verticle flaps out & WEP dancing contest with a G14 or K4.
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Then why are they apparently F4U, Ki84, G14 and K4 fodder in this game?
Forgot the P38 :D :aok.......come on....you know you want to give it a little love :lol
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Paaaaalease, my p39Q chews spit16's up.
OM NOM NOM!! :rock
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Paaaaalease, my p39Q chews spit16's up.
OM NOM NOM!! :rock
Maybe in a head on pass. Otherwise, it can't chew well enough in any category.
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Then why are they apparently F4U, Ki84, G14 and K4 fodder in this game?
Uber plane < Better pilot, numbers, E, etc.
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Of all the spits,with exception of seafire,the pixiteen is the easiest kill.
spit 8 is by far more a handfull,followed closely by the 9
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Sigh...I can say that it SEEMS the sun revolves around the earth even if I know it not to be true.
You indeed can say what ever you want. Makes you sound just as clueless though.
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Karnak,
Here's an opinion...............you're an obstinate, rude, opinionated, pigheaded inflexible, adamant, rude, insolent, impolite, offense and intolerant individual......Oh yeah, you have way too much time on your hands
An opinion doesn't have to be based upon fact.......Someone as obviously smart as you are should know this!!!!
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Another thing I like about the 16. You can carry 3 bombs and still outfly a lot of other light fighters.
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Karnak,
Here's an opinion...............you're an obstinate, rude, opinionated, pigheaded inflexible, adamant, rude, insolent, impolite, offense and intolerant individual......Oh yeah, you have way too much time on your hands
An opinion doesn't have to be based upon fact.......Someone as obviously smart as you are should know this!!!!
No, it doesn't, but trying to say "It is my opinion and why do you insult me based on that." to try to validate themselves after posting it on a public forum is not a rebuttal. It is an false claim that everybody has opinions and they are all equal. That is false. If your opinion is wrong, it is wrong. If you don't want your opinion to be commented on, don't post it on a public forum.
It is not my fault he is wrong, stated his wrong "opinion" in a public place and is thin skinned. I had every right to post a correction. We don't need that kind of misinformation being perpetuated.
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Another thing I like about the 16. You can carry 3 bombs and still outfly a lot of other light fighters.
BS.
ack-ack
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No, it doesn't, but trying to say "It is my opinion and why do you insult me based on that." to try to validate themselves after posting it on a public forum is not a rebuttal. It is an false claim that everybody has opinions and they are all equal. That is false. If your opinion is wrong, it is wrong. If you don't want your opinion to be commented on, don't post it on a public forum.
It is not my fault he is wrong, stated his wrong "opinion" in a public place and is thin skinned. I had every right to post a correction. We don't need that kind of misinformation being perpetuated.
How is it misinformation to have something SEEM to behave one way, I dont think you have a grasp of what an opinion truly is. You have yet, to actually post your facts as proof you just said some stuff as if you are the only authority on it. Until I see some pictures, graphs or manuscripts backing you up I'm just gonna say your blowing hot air, and trying to be knowit all on bombasity alone.
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BS.
ack-ack
He is correct. Put 1k ord on it and see which fighters the Spit16 can out climb to 10 k and which fighters it is faster than. You'd be surprised at what aircraft it is faster than while it is heavy and they are light. Spit V? F6F? P47D 25/40? P40's? Zeke's? F4U-1? Check 'em out. Report back. :aok
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Moved to above comment as was a continuation of that thought.
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He is correct. Put 1k ord on it and see which fighters the Spit16 can out climb to 10 k and which fighters it is faster than. You'd be surprised at what aircraft it is faster than while it is heavy and they are light. Spit V? F6F? P47D 25/40? P40's? Zeke's? F4U-1? Check 'em out. Report back. :aok
Fully load a Spitfire XVI like Rob claims and then come duel me while I fly a N1K2. Then we can both have a laugh after you've been out turned.
ack-ack
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Claim: The Spitfire Mk XVI and Brewster accelerate almost instantly
Counter claim: They do not. They merely exist on a spectrum within the planeset of AH.
Data: Acceleration time in seconds for an asortment of aircraft at 150ft ranked best to worst:
150 to 200
7.97: Spitfire Mk XVI
8.13: Spitfire Mk XIV
8.31: Bf109K-4
8.54: La-7
8.63: Ki-84-Ia
9.09: Fw190D-9
9.75: C.205
10.09: P-38L
10.62: Mosquito Mk VI
10.63: A6M5b
10.90: P-51D
11.06: F4U-1D
12.03: Bf110G-2
12.16: Brewster B-239
12.59: Hurricane Mk IIc
13.78: P-40N
NA.NA: Me262A-1
200 to 250
11.59: Bf109K-4
11.71: Spitfire Mk XIV
11.91: La-7
11.91: Spitfire Mk XVI
12.56: Ki-84-Ia
12.66: Fw190D-9
14.60: P-38L
14.90: P-51D
15.12: C.205
15.15: Mosquito Mk VI
15.66: Me262A-1
15.72: F4U-1D
19.00: Bf110G-2
19.62: A6M5b
21.63: P-40N
24.09: Brewster B-239
26.87: Hurricane Mk IIc
250 to 300
16.44: Me262A-1
17.87: La-7
18.65: Bf109K-4
19.47: Spitfire Mk XIV
19.96: Fw190D-9
21.59: Spitfire Mk XVI
22.47: Ki-84-Ia
23.60: P-51D
25.06: Mosquito Mk VI
25.44: F4U-1D
26.03: P-38L
30.63: C.205
42.15: Bf110G-2
54.97: P-40N
NA.NA: A6M5b
NA.NA: Brewster B-239
NA.NA: Hurricane Mk IIc
300 to 350
19.28: Me262A-1
35.13: La-7
42.16: Fw190D-9
42.90: Bf109K-4
55.25: P-51D
56.60: Spitfire Mk XIV
82.12: F4U-1D
84.66: Mosquito Mk VI
NA.NA: Spitfire Mk XVI
NA.NA: Ki-84-Ia
NA.NA: P-38L
NA.NA: C.205
NA.NA: Bf110G-2
NA.NA: P-40N
NA.NA: A6M5b
NA.NA: Brewster B-239
NA.NA: Hurricane Mk IIc
350 to 400
25.32: Me262A-1
NA.NA: La-7
NA.NA: Fw190D-9
NA.NA: Bf109K-4
NA.NA: P-51D
NA.NA: Spitfire Mk XIV
NA.NA: F4U-1D
NA.NA: Mosquito Mk VI
NA.NA: Spitfire Mk XVI
NA.NA: Ki-84-Ia
NA.NA: P-38L
NA.NA: C.205
NA.NA: Bf110G-2
NA.NA: P-40N
NA.NA: A6M5b
NA.NA: Brewster B-239
NA.NA: Hurricane Mk IIc
Conclusion: While the Spitfire Mk XVI has very good acceleration, being the best accelerator from 150 to 200, it does not perform radically better than the other short ranged interceptors. The Brewster B-239 is a poor accelerator.
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source?
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source?
A stopwatch and testing.
The discussion was not about the real aircraft's performance. It was about how they perform in the game.
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A stopwatch and testing.
The discussion was not about the real aircraft's performance. It was about how they perform in the game.
So in order to verify your data I would have to conduct these same tests in the blind? Did you film so I could possibly watch those to collabirate?
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Sorry, I don't have much hard drive space so I don't normally film. Ancient computer I fear.
If you wanted you could spot check by picking random tests. I each case the aircraft was clean and carrying fuel for as close to 30 minutes as I could get, P-51D had 50% and the Spitfire Mk XVI had 100% for example. WEP was used if the aircraft had WEP.
The reason I respond to claims like the Spitfire Mk XVI and Brewster accelerating faster than they should is because players hear this in game. If they get caught by a Brewster it is because they misjudged its E state, but because of the constant complaints in the community about the Brewster's acceleration they think "BS mismodeled easymode crap that got me killed." rather than the much more productive "Damn, that Brewster caught me. I must have badly misjudged his E state. I need to get better at judging E of other aircraft." Obviously the Spitfire Mk XVI is an excellent acceleration, but we all know that. These numbers put it in context though and show that good as it is, it is not way out there on its own.
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Sorry, I don't have much hard drive space so I don't normally film. Ancient computer I fear.
If you wanted you could spot check by picking random tests. I each case the aircraft was clean and carrying fuel for as close to 30 minutes as I could get, P-51D had 50% and the Spitfire Mk XVI had 100% for example. WEP was used if the aircraft had WEP.
The reason I respond to claims like the Spitfire Mk XVI and Brewster accelerating faster than they should is because players hear this in game. If they get caught by a Brewster it is because they misjudged its E state, but because of the constant complaints in the community about the Brewster's acceleration they think "BS mismodeled easymode crap that got me killed." rather than the much more productive "Damn, that Brewster caught me. I must have badly misjudged his E state. I need to get better at judging E of other aircraft." Obviously the Spitfire Mk XVI is an excellent acceleration, but we all know that. These numbers put it in context though and show that good as it is, it is not way out there on its own.
The brew is a monster at holding e.
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The brew is a monster at holding e.
I can test that too as a deceleration test. I am not going to due a full round on all of those, but if you have any aircraft you want it compared to I can toss those in as well.
Probably do power on and power off decelerations from 450 or so down to 300.
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I can test that too as a deceleration test. I am not going to due a full round on all of those, but if you have any aircraft you want it compared to I can toss those in as well.
Probably do power on and power off decelerations from 450 or so down to 300.
Try it against the dora .
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The brew is a monster at holding e.
You confuse maneuverability and flat shooting guns with "holding e".
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BS.
ack-ack
B true. Fighters is a generalization referring to everything that comes out of a fighter hanger. I'm not saying it will out perform a 109 while heavy but a P-38 would be no problem most of the time.
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You confuse maneuverability and flat shooting guns with "holding e".
They are completely different things , When I dive in on a brew who bereaks down and turns then climbs back up on my 6 closing distance thats called holding e. Turning radius and rate as well alls roll can be termed manurebility, and why would the guns in a brew be flatter shooting then a pony?
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450-400 power on
47.56: Fw190D-9
7.56: Brewster
400-350 power on
NA.NA: Fw190D-9
11.84: Brewster
350-300 power on
NA.NA: Fw190D-9
29.53: Brewster
450-400 power off
6.69: Fw190D-9
3.51: Brewster
400-350 power off
7.44: Fw190D-9
5.18: Brewster
350-300 power off
8.38: Fw190D-9
5.62: Brewster
300-250 power off
9.47: Fw190D-9
6.87: Brewster
250-200 power off
10.41: Fw190D-9
8.31: Brewster
200-150 power off
10.43: Fw190D-9
9.50: Brewster
Fw190D-9 retains energy much better than the Brewster.
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So let it be known its impossible for a brewster to catch a dora that dives down to it then on climb out have the Brew make his break tun onto the doras 6 then climb closing distance( unless the dora is doing 200 and the Brew is at 400 which if a dora dives is really improbable) IsSo if anyone gets film of this please post in the bugs section.
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The Great Karnak......... It's still an opinion.......right, wrong or indifferent...... it's his opinion and he's entitled to it........ You may disagree, even present facts to change his opinion, but in the end it's still an opinion.......
I see you have issues on being wrong............
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So let it be known its impossible for a brewster to catch a dora that dives down to it then on climb out have the Brew make his break tun onto the doras 6 then climb closing distance( unless the dora is doing 200 and the Brew is at 400 which if a dora dives is really improbable) IsSo if anyone gets film of this please post in the bugs section.
Basically, yes.
The Great Karnak......... It's still an opinion.......right, wrong or indifferent...... it's his opinion and he's entitled to it........ You may disagree, even present facts to change his opinion, but in the end it's still an opinion.......
I see you have issues on being wrong............
You have problems with reasoning. You might want to take some classes to assist you with that problem.
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They are completely different things ,
They indeed are different things. But based on your argument you are confusing the two when your are observing what an opposing Brewster is doing while flying against it.
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They indeed are different things. But based on your argument you are confusing the two when your are observing what an opposing Brewster is doing while flying against it.
OK please tell me per my observations where I am confusing maneuverability and the inertia held by the a/c? To be clear my point is you dive the brew breaks down and turns , You pass the brew about co alt after dive and begin a climb back up[(but not to sharp) the brew continues his break until he has turned back to you and begins his climb and actually succeeds in closing distance. I saw that is maintaining E that he gathered during his downward break but maintained it through the turn and eventual climb. That's E management not manurverability. IMHO Then again I really dont care If Karnak took the time to verify then Ill accept his findings but at this point you just want to argue semantics. Im not even sure you got the rigth guy's 'obsevations'
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this is all anecdotal unless you provide film
I doubt you will do that though
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this is all anecdotal unless you provide film
I doubt you will do that though
You talking to me?use smaller words
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OK please tell me per my observations where I am confusing maneuverability and the inertia held by the a/c? To be clear my point is you dive the brew breaks down and turns , You pass the brew about co alt after dive and begin a climb back up[(but not to sharp) the brew continues his break until he has turned back to you and begins his climb and actually succeeds in closing distance. I saw that is maintaining E that he gathered during his downward break but maintained it through the turn and eventual climb. That's E management not manurverability. IMHO Then again I really dont care If Karnak took the time to verify then Ill accept his findings but at this point you just want to argue semantics. Im not even sure you got the rigth guy's 'obsevations'
For example, more maneuverable/pursuing aircraft can cut a corner on you as you are maneuvering and therefore it needs to travel a shorter distance than you in order to stay in a position where that particular aircraft/pilot desires to be. As far as the guns go, .50cal can be fired to fairly long distances accurately so the aircraft you are flying can be already clearly out running the Brewster but your plane isn't able to out run the .50cal projectiles. Also, from your posts it is fairly clear that you could have been clearly underestimating the e-state of the Brewster.
The above combination obviously causes an illusion where you think Brewster maintains and gathers E faster than you think it should while it is actually the above factors at work.
The definition of "E" here is, as I understand it, kinetic energy+potential energy. At mid altitudes, Brewster is the slowest fighter in the game with the I-16. That alone tells it is hardly an "E machine" of any sort since it can only sustain very low airspeeds.
These claims generally come from the fact that even a short time with guns on ones six can feel like an eternity.
If you think something is wrong, post a film about it.
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Two things I'm curious about.
1. - Does your differing internet lag states effect the communicated E states and speeds between yourself and your con, like the differences in your apparent positions versus real positions just befor you get a collision message? If I am not mistaken isn't there an attempt by the game to try and even your states out a tad by introducing some delay. So in some cases our con may see us flying slower than you see ourself, while you perceive the con flying at unrealistics speeds(not warping)?
2. - When you accelerate from a low E state to 275 ta or decellerate down from a high E state to 275 ta in the game. Is your ability to manuver at 275 ta the same in terms of whatever function holds your E state bank account? Are the potentials of the two speeds the same\different via real phsics or programaticly?
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the Brew is an relatively easy plane to kill, even with a good stick behind it....
I guess you can say thats my opinion.....
recently doin my stats I have 107 kills on it..... it has 57 kills on me,one month I have 13 kills on it, it had 2 on me....
incidentally I have 52 kills in it with 26 deaths....... :devil
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For example, more maneuverable/pursuing aircraft can cut a corner on you as you are maneuvering and therefore it needs to travel a shorter distance than you in order to stay in a position where that particular aircraft/pilot desires to be. As far as the guns go, .50cal can be fired to fairly long distances accurately so the aircraft you are flying can be already clearly out running the Brewster but your plane isn't able to out run the .50cal projectiles. Also, from your posts it is fairly clear that you could have been clearly underestimating the e-state of the Brewster.
The above combination obviously causes an illusion where you think Brewster maintains and gathers E faster than you think it should while it is actually the above factors at work.
The definition of "E" here is, as I understand it, kinetic energy+potential energy. At mid altitudes, Brewster is the slowest fighter in the game with the I-16. That alone tells it is hardly an "E machine" of any sort since it can only sustain very low airspeeds.
These claims generally come from the fact that even a short time with guns on ones six can feel like an eternity.
If you think something is wrong, post a film about it.
You clearly are not understanding,if I dive in on a brew who breaks down and away completeing a almost 90 degress turn then comibng back(another 90 degress and chasing down my now climbing Dora(that has been going straight lne the whole time thats e management on his part not manureability Im not saying I am coing in witha tone difference of smash maybe only 100k more.. I had film on my old computer, That why I for anybody that films something like film it to post it and since it is impossible per Karnaks times we will know somehting is fishy
To be clear I rarley run into this myself once or twice the whole time ive played but everytime there are many brews up someone comes over vox with this complain I am merley seeking a resolution, ansd since Karnak was kind enough to establish where the Brew is in realtion to the dora next time smeone gets it on film we can analyze it to see if the Brew Is closing the distance as many claim.
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I keep hearing variations of this complaint about the Brewster and the A6m from players during the normal VOX chatter in furballs and base CAPS. I have had moments of seeing variations of the Brewster and A6m's seemingly phenominal zoom climb and E retention in dives past 400 TA chasing me and during my WEP powered climb out after missing the shot at 400+- TA.
Thats why I asked the questions concerning what I see in my cockpit for speed versus what the con sees as his speed and mine realtive to his. Neither a Brewster or A6m pilot would waste the effort in climbing or diving with a superior speed and WEP'd ride if he didn't see from his cockpit that he had a fair chance of succeeding. I've flown both and didn't bother with being roped or compressing in dives that were not to my advantage in those aircraft. And I've gotten angry PM's about my magic ride or even hacking the game. I fly both infrequently, maybe the last time a year ago. We don't hear complaints like this for the I16 even though it's in the same lower performance envelope with the Brewster and A6m or even worse.
I'm not sure short of asking everyone you know in the game to start filming every sorte for the conceivable future. Will any of these complaints by so many be possibly sorted out just like being able to show films of how collisions work. All of us are aware of the complaints. This seems an honest candidate for some real mythbusting testing in game versus flight mechanics theory in this forum. After all it's a computer program which takes it's marching orders from what it's been fed by the programer. Not a kite we are loosing our lives in fighting a war.
Management has always responded positively to honest efforts to help the game "if" a problem exists. You cannot prove a problem exists in a computer program by diagraming theory. You have to test the program for output against the numerous similar user complaints. In the end it could be a simple mass user misunderstanding of the program. Or, with so many similar user complaints the program might have a problem.
Don't discount the user's realtime game program function complaints versus their usual complaining over how the game program is played. That is the mistake in this situation by those dismissing the complainers.
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bustr,
It shouldn't do that. If it is going 400mph, it should show as 400mph on both computers, there should just be a bit of a difference in position and when it starts and stops a maneuver.
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You clearly are not understanding,if I dive in on a brew who breaks down and away completeing a almost 90 degress turn then comibng back(another 90 degress and chasing down my now climbing Dora
I understand completely as one of the things I mentioned was gross misjudgement of relative E-states. That's what obviously has happened here or your perception of the whole situation is badly in accurate. I suspect that it's a little bit of both.
I had film on my old computer, That why I for anybody that films something like film it to post it and since it is impossible per Karnaks times we will know somehting is fishy
I can't quite make out your sentence here. But yeh, film or it didn't happen and all that.
To be clear I rarley run into this myself once or twice the whole time ive played but everytime there are many brews up someone comes over vox with this complain I am merley seeking a resolution,
People complain, that's a fact of life. One of the reasons why people complain is that they get out done and they don't like the idea that someone is better than them and therefore they seek other reasons for the not-so-victorious outcome.
ansd since Karnak was kind enough to establish where the Brew is in realtion to the dora next time smeone gets it on film we can analyze it to see if the Brew Is closing the distance as many claim.
I'd say that with the amount of data visible in the film viewer (not too much) and with the amount of variables at play (like the weight of the opposing plane at the time of the "incident") there's very little that can be gotten out of a single film. Films from both parties would of course remedy the unknown weight issue but still, the best way is to test the plane offline against known primary source data of the said plane.
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I honestly prefer the Spit 9 or 5 personally. I could do some mean down and dirty knife fighting with Spit 5s, they're also my favorite DA plane(1 v 1). :rock
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What the brewster knows much better than any other aircraft (even the zeek) is:
remaining fully controllable and steady avan at very low speed, nose up. So while in the 109, i cant really do the hammerhead reverse under 75-80mph, also losing the ability to aim properly under 95-100 (when they rope me), the brew can follow me up all the way and shoot my tailwhipping arse when hes doing 55-60mph, and only stalling out after that - resulting that my opponent can stay nose-up much longer.
Its odd.
Anyway, i just freakingly dont care what you are flying as long as youre not playing the sissy pick n run game. If you need the spix to be able to turn, take it then.
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That's not strange at all. In level flight the Buffalo would stall at about 67 mph with flaps down; even slower for the lighter Finnish Buffalos. In an almost vertical climb the wing loading is much lower (they no longer support most of the aircraft's weight, the prop and momentum does) and thus the wings stall at a much lower airspeed.
http://www.warbirdforum.com/ericbrow.htm
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pro-tip: If you are running from a brewster, zeke and the likes, don't try to escape in the vertical plane, use the horizontal.
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I understand completely as one of the things I mentioned was gross misjudgement of relative E-states. That's what obviously has happened here or your perception of the whole situation is badly in accurate. I suspect that it's a little bit of both.
Nah, Look its pobvious tyour a BRewster homer and there is nothiing wrong at all with it. Im not saying it is but the possiblity does exist. There is no gross underestimation of starting a dive 100 knots and 3 k above a brew then having it break then climb UP to you on your way out closing the distance. No flat firiing guns nothing but e retention that per Karnaks times is properly modeled yet happends constantly(the break to zoom uber Brew catching a diving Dora). I dont really care either way but to dismiss anyones theroy out of hand is clearly Brewster Homerism. Just calm down Wmaker, no need to get upset about this. Im merely asking if anyone has film( I had film but blew up my compyuter so I mno longer have that film)
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pro-tip: If you are running from a brewster, zeke and the likes, don't try to escape in the vertical plane, use the horizontal.
True. Still, look, im tarded and still havent realized that what is impossible, thats im-freakin-possible :rofl
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True. Still, look, im tarded and still havent realized that what is impossible, thats im-freakin-possible :rofl
Can we split the difference and use 45 degree climbout?
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I would also like to see some films. I don't have much experience with Brewsters, either against them or in them, and what I do have has never thrown up warning flags.
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I would also like to see some films. I don't have much experience with Brewsters, either against them or in them, and what I do have has never thrown up warning flags.
So here you are, five pages after telling me my opinion is flat out wrong, admitting you have little to no experience with what I was talking about. :headscratch:
I remember shortly after the Brew first came out. I was in a D-25 closing on a furball about 2000 feet over a friendly who had a Brew latched on and asking for help. I started my WEPed dive at 275mph and a little less than 2k out from the fight. The Brew was in a protracted turn fight with the friendly. As I came in I made a 10-15 degree left correction to pull some lead on the Brew who saw me barreling in at nearly 300 mph. The Brew made a hard left 270 degree shallow turn nose down with a slight pitch back up to gain my 6. I continued my run in a shallow dive with wings level already near the Brew's max level speed making no turns after the initial 10-15 degree deflection attempt. He was able to finish his turn hold my six for 2-3 seconds while peppering me from 300+ out before I was able to pull away. There's not a single plane in game that I've encountered capable of the same feat under the same circumstances. Not even the Spit16.
No I don't have film but I remember it vividly and there have been plenty of examples since.
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"I don't have film but..."
I too had often vivid memories of things that turned out not to have happend that way at all when I reviewed the film. Perception in air compat is a treacherous thing, especially when it comes down to speeds and energy states. Nobody is safe from being 'fooled'.
For the first two years after the Spit 16 came down the BBS was almost flooded with complaints about magic Spit 16s, including claims of 16's "accelerating to 400" while climbing straight up. We read really a lot of them. But with all those hundreds of complaints here, and literally thousands of similar one on 200, nobody could ever produce a film.
As a matter of fact, CH 200 is full of unsubstantiated claims like "no way he could catch me in his XY, I was doing <insert insane speed>" every day, which are mostly not rooted in reality at all. That's not limited to plane performances, it's also happenign for collision model, ENY limts and so on...
Karnak did show that the Brewster is terribly far away from being the E holding, rapid accelerating monster of AH myths. If there really was something blatantly wrong with it, it should be very easy to produce a film. One does not even have to wait until he has the next MA encounter. Grab a friend and try to reproduce (and film) the magic in TA or DA.
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Or It could be people who are friends of Bruv(I think hes the hacker) and he's shared his weight decreasing hack code.
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I immediately accuse whoever just shot me down of cheating. That way I still feel like I could have been a winner.
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The only arena the Tie-Brew-Fighter is seen accomplishing the impossible is in the LWMA. You will need to perform your experiments there or everyone in this audience start filming all of your furballs while looking to tease Brewsters into Tie-Fighter mode.
I still wonder if our energy states can be communicated between game clients out of sync due to internet lag. I'n not referring to position pointers which cause lag. Unless, only the position pointer is communicated and the time it takes to change cooridinates in (x, y, z) relative to your reference. Since you cannot film a collision from the plane's perspective that survived it. You would need a film from the Brewster you are attacking and not yourself if my out of sync theory has any validity.
Unless again, HTC debugs much more info from a film than we get to see or know about and can tell you how much the plane you collided with saw himself miss you by from your collision film.
I remember when the spit16 seemed to perform the unbelievable. I remember when it stopped, and seemed just a bit less uber and more vulnerable. Even the La7 got a haircut a few years back after years of complaints that it was too unrelaisticly fast on the deck. This is a computer program guys, not real life. It's entirly possible the Brewster occasionaly pulls a werewolf and is in need of a beard trimming.
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LilMak,
Experience with it is irrelevant. As I showed, it should not be possible. Therefor if it did do what you claim it did there is a bug and a film of it would be a wonderful thing to have.
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Or It could be people who are friends of Bruv(I think hes the hacker) and he's shared his weight decreasing hack code.
should I report, laugh, or cry? I guess all 3 would work too
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yes I was shamelessly outed by Zack1234,
I take a long hard dump before my sorties resulting in a couple lbs worth of weight removed from the plane. This in turn allows my plane to become almost un-imaginably faster and climbs that much better.
It's almost like saying Douglas Bader was a hack because he had no legs and could therefore turn that little bit tighter without blacking out. :old:
notorious hack squad indeed :D
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Or It could be people who are friends of Bruv(I think hes the hacker) and he's shared his weight decreasing hack code.
(https://forums.playfire.com/_proxy/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jankytshirts.com%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2FPSST%2520YOUR%2520GAY.gif&hmac=dff7588f6c58dbf723fe135c64e934d5)
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What the brewster knows much better than any other aircraft (even the zeek) is:
remaining fully controllable and steady avan at very low speed, nose up. So while in the 109, i cant really do the hammerhead reverse under 75-80mph, also losing the ability to aim properly under 95-100 (when they rope me), the brew can follow me up all the way and shoot my tailwhipping arse when hes doing 55-60mph, and only stalling out after that - resulting that my opponent can stay nose-up much longer.
Its odd.
Anyway, i just freakingly dont care what you are flying as long as youre not playing the sissy pick n run game. If you need the spix to be able to turn, take it then.
You could be providing a short cut for a firing solution, if you simply pull straight up in an aircraft with one on your 6 you are not really climbing ie using your lift to get vert, you are giving them a shortcut to an easy firing solution, if your plane has a better engine spiral up and then go pure vert right at the top, then its thrust vs thurst, the bigger engine will win nose straight up.
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If the Brewster was such a great plane why was the Finns reequipping their fighter units with the ME-109s as fast as they could? As for the Spit16 I like the 8s and 9s better personally. When I see a Spit16 nine time out of ten the guy in it can't fly it because so many new guys use it. But the tenth guy that can fly the 16 watch out it is a great plane in the right hands. I don't use Spitfires much because they seem frail to me. If I get a few hits on my Spit the wings fall off or the tail or some other vital part.
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What is the difference between the AH Spit9 and Spit16?
In RL, the only real difference was the Spit9 used a R-R merlin and the Spit16 used a Packard Merlin.
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What is the difference between the AH Spit9 and Spit16?
In RL, the only real difference was the Spit9 used a R-R Merlin and the Spit16 used a Packard Merlin.
I don't know why I like the 8 & 9 better than the 16. They seem to handle better for me and it could be just my perception in the planes. I am no expert plus my frame rate is so low and I have so much lag it is hard to tell. I also prefer the ME109F-4 and g-2 of all the 109s but it is still just my opinion on any of these planes. Some of it comes from flying light light planes like the Taylorcraft BL-65 with light responsive controls.
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What is the difference between the AH Spit9 and Spit16?
In RL, the only real difference was the Spit9 used a R-R merlin and the Spit16 used a Packard Merlin.
Depends on the Spitfire Mk IX.
The Spitfire Mk IX used the Merlin 61, 63, 66 and 70. The Spitfire Mk XVI used the Merlin 266, a Packard built version of the Merlin 66.
The Spitfire Mk IX in AH uses the earliest Mk IX engine, the Merlin 61 and thus represents the Spitfire Mk IX as introduced in July of 1942. For the later, more common Merlin 66 powered Mk IXs the Spitfire Mk VIII (Merlin 66 in AH) or Spitfire Mk XVI (Merlin 66 in AH, not 266) ought to be used instead.
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should I report, laugh, or cry? I guess all 3 would work too
Obviously Laugh if you had any sense of humor or satire. Why so defensive guys?
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yes I was shamelessly outed by Zack1234,
I take a long hard dump before my sorties resulting in a couple lbs worth of weight removed from the plane. This in turn allows my plane to become almost un-imaginably faster and climbs that much better.
It's almost like saying Douglas Bader was a hack because he had no legs and could therefore turn that little bit tighter without blacking out. :old:
notorious hack squad indeed :D
I dont think thtas normal maybe more fibre and more regular sessions would be advisable.
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(http://www.jimmiejackfishing.com/pageImages/36-162image.jpg)
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(http://www.jimmiejackfishing.com/pageImages/36-162image.jpg)
Yeah I know that was your intention I am just saying, your still gay.
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You could be providing a short cut for a firing solution, if you simply pull straight up in an aircraft with one on your 6 you are not really climbing ie using your lift to get vert, you are giving them a shortcut to an easy firing solution, if your plane has a better engine spiral up and then go pure vert right at the top, then its thrust vs thurst, the bigger engine will win nose straight up.
Figured.
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The Great Karnak......... It's still an opinion.......right, wrong or indifferent...... it's his opinion and he's entitled to it........ You may disagree, even present facts to change his opinion, but in the end it's still an opinion.......
I see you have issues on being wrong............
Frequently, opinions are conclusions drawn without complete knowledge or understanding... Within the context of an aircraft's easy to define performance, opinions are often based upon perceptions, and thus are prone to error. Therefore, it is often frustrating to interact with folks whose opinion is based upon perception rather than fact, especially when they are very strident in that opinion.
I will often invite folks to the TA, where we can explore performance without having to re-plane when hit. That's a great place to settle performance disagreements.
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Yeah I know that was your intention I am just saying, your still gay.
Im secrue enough with the fact Im not gay to say even if I was you wouldnt get any. Who would date a sped that has to hack?
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Im secrue enough with the fact Im not gay to say even if I was you wouldnt get any. Who would date a sped?
whats a sped?
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whats a sped?
I edited the quote Ink you were to fast but a sped = special education. Its school for challenged individuals.
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Pervert hacks?
Got any proof of that heavy accusation?
:rofl
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ahhh cc
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The only arena the Tie-Brew-Fighter is seen accomplishing the impossible is in the LWMA.
Or it could be the lack of SA and skill of the said pilots who witness such things?
You will need to perform your experiments there or everyone in this audience start filming all of your furballs while looking to tease Brewsters into Tie-Fighter mode.
No need for that. The flight model is the same for all arenas including offline. As it is already being said, trying to find something being off based on a single engagement isn't very coherent way to try to find if something is wrong. Best way is to do test flying in game and compare the obtained data against real life data. The problem here is that the ones with the lodest voice shouting that something is wrong usually don't have the faintest clue about aerodynamics or about base academic procedure regarding research so they don't know even where to start. And that is the reason why they are shouting in this thread for example instead of trying to find out if something actually is wrong.
I remember when the spit16 seemed to perform the unbelievable. I remember when it stopped, and seemed just a bit less uber and more vulnerable.
Based on the version/patch read mes, the only possible change was in 2006 during the global flight model change.
Even the La7 got a haircut a few years back after years of complaints that it was too unrelaisticly fast on the deck.
I'm sure the "years of complaints" had nothing to do with the change as it wasn't the top speed which got changed.
This is a computer program guys, not real life. It's entirly possible the Brewster occasionaly pulls a werewolf and is in need of a beard trimming.
Unless you or someone else manages to actually prove something about Brewster or any plane really, this is just useless babbling that has zero signal and just clutters up the BBS with noise. Nothing more.
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I too had often vivid memories of things that turned out not to have happend that way at all when I reviewed the film. Perception in air compat is a treacherous thing, especially when it comes down to speeds and energy states. Nobody is safe from being 'fooled'.
Couldn't agree more.
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Im secrue enough with the fact Im not gay to say even if I was you wouldnt get any. Who would date a sped that has to hack?
You are a sausage jockey wee boy! first sign your in POTW, second your are having thoughts of declining me on a date, complete turd pirate, without a doubt! :old:
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Pervert hacks?
Got any proof of that heavy accusation?
:rofl
yeah herseay aplenty. Simply do a search and you will see it all laid bare.
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BLHA BLAH BLAH YADDA YADDA :old:
wow all this because a joke about ligthjening a planes weigth again OI ask WHY so defensive? I know im not gay so I dont get upset when people day I am , BUT YOU get totaly butthurt when someone makes a joke about yyou girls hacking(why is that?) could it be becasue you arre not secure in the knowledge that you dont hack? Is that because you do? Is that why you're so upset? Becaus eI got to close to the truth?!?!?
(http://gifsoup.com/view3/1226393/dramatic-hamster-o.gif)
Pervert I think your ligth in the loafers yourself and are shopping around hoping somone will "out" to you huh? This is 2012 you dont have to go about it this way I am sure there are websites for you to meet men in your local area.
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is that you Josh Olds?
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is that you Josh Olds?
Nope I wpould say I was midway but then we all know hes a few shade. Prevent up there can use that account when he catched a PNG.
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wow all this because a joke about ligthjening a planes weigth again OI ask WHY so defensive? I know im not gay so I dont get upset when people day I am , BUT YOU get totaly butthurt when someone makes a joke about yyou girls hacking(why is that?) could it be becasue you arre not secure in the knowledge that you dont hack? Is that because you do? Is that why you're so upset? Becaus eI got to close to the truth?!?!?
(http://gifsoup.com/view3/1226393/dramatic-hamster-o.gif)
Pervert I think your ligth in the loafers yourself and are shopping around hoping somone will "out" to you huh? This is 2012 you dont have to go about it this way I am sure there are websites for you to meet men in your local area.
This is way to easy, look at that for a reply even a little edit when you doubted yourself :) "pervert made me doubt myself!!" :rofl where is that picture....oh
(http://www.jimmiejackfishing.com/pageImages/36-162image.jpg)
So suck it up fat boy seen plenty of hmm, attempted inflammatory posts? from you over the years and you flip out because you are called gay! ha far to easy. Lookks out fur the STINNKKY BAIITZZ! :rofl
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Nah you can say thats what my reply was but it was simply more bait on my part and someone tipped you off obviously thta or you sobered up I dunnno but dont try to make me out like the fish here when I am clearly the angler.Also nothing in my post was a clear violation of the rules such adss yours so please dont even try that tactic, you wont have a leg to stand on nor a hack to get you by to make up for poor skillz
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Nah you can say thats what my reply was but it was simply more bait on my part and someone tipped you off obviously thta or you sobered up I dunnno but dont try to make me out like the fish here when I am clearly the angler.
Oh the moment of realization! :eek: you never actually posted about me in this thread or any other to my knowledge, you were attempting to wind people up with allegations of cheating so I threw out a psst your gay and you leapt straight from your fishing seat into the water and jumped on my hook. I didn't even have to do much either simply throw a schoolyard insult at you and you flipped out, this should tell you that you are a complete lightweight in the angling field.
I wouldn't say I am much good to start with but here I am, with you... :rofl :old:
(http://www.funfix.com/Gallery/Images/lg_Nice-Red-Fish-Catch.jpg)
Ahhh another edit!! more doubt, so sad :( :cry luckily I caught it before you edit :D
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Oh the moment of realization! :eek: you never actually posted about me in this thread or any other to my knowledge, you were attempting to wind people up with allegations of cheating so I threw out a psst your gay and you leapt straight from your fishing seat into the water and jumped on my hook. I didn't even have to do much either simply throw a schoolyard insult at you and you flipped out, this should tell you that you are a complete lightweight in the angling field.
I wouldn't say I am much good to start with but here I am, with you... :rofl :old:
(http://www.funfix.com/Gallery/Images/lg_Nice-Red-Fish-Catch.jpg)
Ahhh another edit!! more doubt, so sad :( :cry luckily I caught it before you edit :D
Only thing obvious is your reaching, or your lack of contextual vison. Please go back and reread the posts. Im sur Midway will be along shortly with your helmet and crayons. I edit to word things in a more easy to follow form . Your really starting to cling to anything arent you, not as easy to come out on top with out a hack avaibable is it?
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Also nothing in my post was a clear violation of the rules such adss yours so please dont even try that tactic, you wont have a leg to stand on nor a hack to get you by to make up for poor skillz
Oh dear so you were being serious about this hacking business? :( I am afraid that is a violation of the rules :uhoh
"7- Cheating allegations or descriptions are not allowed. Email support@hitechcreations.com to report any issues regarding this. HTC permanently bans anyone caught cheating in Aces High. We take cheating and allegations of cheating very seriously. "
You even violated that rule in the above post :o
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Oh dear so you were being serious about this hacking business? :( I am afraid that is a violation of the rules :uhoh
"7- Cheating allegations or descriptions are not allowed. Email support@hitechcreations.com to report any issues regarding this. HTC permanently bans anyone caught cheating in Aces High. We take cheating and allegations of cheating very seriously. "
You even violated that rule in the above post :o
Really? nah Im not going to bother looking because that clearly IS stinky bait. Ill just take my win.
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Conclusion: Nathan tosses bait out in the water by saying bruv cheats. No one bites. Pervert then tosses a counter troll which landed a big one :) . Nathan claim your defeat and move on.
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Conclusion: Nathan tosses bait out in the water by saying bruv cheats. No one bites. Pervert then tosses a counter troll which landed a big one :) . Nathan claim your defeat and move on.
Please, its clear what went down here and I cintinue to bring the trot lline in. Yet another one that dont now how to contextualise.
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:). Learn to accept defeat.
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Oh come on, if you dont want to, the brewster wont kill you, that thing is as slow.
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'pervert is a hacker'
the favoured claim of terrible pilots who get out turned by 190d9 :)
the 'notorious hack squad, The Few' strikes again
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(http://media.heavy.com/media/2012/10/choking.gif)
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WoW :D It's like what, first time in 2 years since I've posted here.. and I see some interesting stuff.
First would be the fact I see friendly faces like Karnak or Wmaker still here (Hullo, gents! :banana: )
Second would be the influx of typical MA dweebs in claiming the dreaded "anecdotes" of planes defying the global physics -- except back in the day, these fools would have been made a laughing stock the moment they start spewing the typical, time-old whines against certain planes they hate, according to their "feel" and "opinion" which so conveniently overpowers "burden of proof".
What has these forums turned to while I was gone? :D
(ps) Ain't no whiner like a luftwhiner, and I if a luftwhiner like me finds these whines lame.... hehehehehe :x
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LOL pervert
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZRHEo32gTIs/T6PbPtImvuI/AAAAAAAAAcM/GQFIDc4f3_4/s1600/1up.jpg)
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Heya, Kweassa. Long time, no see. How've you been doing?
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Hi, Karnak.
I am seriously considering whether I should open a subscription and return to the skies of the MA... or not.
Although I admit, I am a little disappointed at the apparent stagnation of the status of AH.
To tell you the truth, the recent open beta of "War Thunder", rekindled my old love for WW2 aircombat simulation genre... the game itself is casual and arcade at best, but it does look beautiful... and is also a MMO... it did make me miss AH2, and I thought, "if only AH had developed to this level of graphics and simple interface...". Yeah.. I know they are a small, skeleton crew company, and I know how all the boys like 'slow and steady' here... but I'm a bit worried perhaps HTC's lagging behind the curve.
Apparently, plane/vehicles/boats all seem to be the same... as well as MA gameplay style... and ofcourse, the level of aesthetics...
Is there something significantly different with the latest incarnation of AH2 that I might have missed??
(ps) What I worry most, is that many recent developers are trying to do something which AH has been the sole provider for such a long time. The more-or-less success of World of Tanks, and their expansion into a more full-time WW2 environment into the World of Planes... they openly announced that they are adding in the ground and naval war aspect... and from what I've seen, it might be a lot more worthy than what Cornered Rat tried to do a few years back, with their fuddled WW2 Online attempt.
Our obsession for realism is quickly becoming something only we understand... and I fear HTC might not be able to survive as a company that needs profits, with only us to sustain them.
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HiTech determined that the strat system wasn't being used because it was too complex and thus simplified it. There is a lot more strat raids going on since he changed it up. There are hints of more strat system changes coming in the next version.
Other than that, pretty much the same game. I don't recall when you left, but mostly the last two years have been about additional units and changes to the GVs.
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Hiya Kweassa! :)
You're a welcome sight. :) Rational logic is something this board needs nowadays... ;)
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I'm seeing a lot more high altitude fights with the recent changes.
This is good.
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(http://media.heavy.com/media/2012/10/choking.gif)
I'd hit it....twice.
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Back to point. That Spit16 really is an awesome bird. Fun to fly - fun to shoot down.
I kinda scratch my head though when I see posts here or 200 when a Tie16 pilot complains...about anything. :rolleyes:
I feel when flying a Tie16 that kills are just about handed to me on a silver platter. Nearly so with the LA7. I am not saying they need to be perked (don't care either way). Silly though.
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spit 16 is a great plane.... That being said.. it holds 'e' better than many rides and THIS CAN BE USED AGAINST IT!
most people in spits rely on the spits superior performance thus stage a position where you can change e states much faster (ie slow down faster and then regain it) and you will often get a very nice snap shot.
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spit 16 is a great plane.... That being said.. it holds 'e' better than many rides and THIS CAN BE USED AGAINST IT!
most people in spits rely on the spits superior performance thus stage a position where you can change e states much faster (ie slow down faster and then regain it) and you will often get a very nice snap shot.
...until a cherrypicker comes down and busts your arse while you're at the height of your fancy slow down/overshoot gig.
Planes like the Spit16, or N1K, or Ki-84, or etc etc.. are never a threat by themselves. The true dangers (and thus, frustrations) with these types of planes are because when they start out with an E advantage high enough to latch down to you and force extreme maneuvers, that means you're probably not gonna be going home, unless your side is the local horde.
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Ya i LUVED when a spit16/ki84/niki came at 20k, and did nothing but rope-a-dope like he was in a 38 or pony. Then tryed to run home from a stupid 109/190 when they lost the E. Then the bragging about how i suck.
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Planes like the Spit16, or N1K, or Ki-84, or etc etc.. are never a threat by themselves. The true dangers (and thus, frustrations) with these types of planes are because when they start out with an E advantage high enough to latch down to you and force extreme maneuvers, that means you're probably not gonna be going home, unless your side is the local horde.
This can be said about any plane though... hell I can cherry pick and win in p40b.... I just need a bit larger of an e adv...
Ya i LUVED when a spit16/ki84/niki came at 20k, and did nothing but rope-a-dope like he was in a 38 or pony. Then tryed to run home from a stupid 109/190 when they lost the E. Then the bragging about how i suck.
Thats like 90% of the player base.... as Jugler says... they play to not lose.... not play to win. :aok
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This can be said about any plane though... hell I can cherry pick and win in p40b.... I just need a bit larger of an e adv...
Except the Spit16 is a high-performing plane which overlaps both the "speed" category and "maneuverability" category.
Many people have a tendency to brag about how they can out-perform a certain, superior plane with their skill -- except in reality, they really didn't out-perform a superior plane. They simply out-performed an inferior pilot. Rarely do they come to these boards and mention those times where they've met a pilot behind a Spit with about equal, or even superior, skill level, and how the superior performance of the plane, coupled with a pilot as skilled as themselves, simply wooped their arses. :)
In that sense, as mentioned above, many planes have very distinct and defined weaknesses which may suit them in one situation, but not the other. However, the rare breed of planes like the Spit16, are excellent in so many ways that if you really think about it, there's no reason to assume that the specific plane would be an easy kill.
The fact that a usually inferior, newbie-grade pilots are behind its controls in the MA, doesn't really adequately compliment what that plane can do.
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Except the Spit16 is a high-performing plane which overlaps both the "speed" category and "maneuverability" category.
Many people have a tendency to brag about how they can out-perform a certain, superior plane with their skill -- except in reality, they really didn't out-perform a superior plane. They simply out-performed an inferior pilot. Rarely do they come to these boards and mention those times where they've met a pilot behind a Spit with about equal, or even superior, skill level, and how the superior performance of the plane, coupled with a pilot as skilled as themselves, simply wooped their arses. :)
In that sense, as mentioned above, many planes have very distinct and defined weaknesses which may suit them in one situation, but not the other. However, the rare breed of planes like the Spit16, are excellent in so many ways that if you really think about it, there's no reason to assume that the specific plane would be an easy kill.
The fact that a usually inferior, newbie-grade pilots are behind its controls in the MA, doesn't really adequately compliment what that plane can do.
A planes ability to turn well can be used against them, it turns well yes but it must burn E doing that, I have found regardless of skill levels even at equal skill levels there is still a fork in the decision making process that you live or die by, sometimes its a second guess a gamble. In the case of a spit16 I find that although it is an excellent plane its main advantage ie turning can be used against it in the vertical and by its very nature of turning well it is less likely to have its highest energy state.
Also I think turn is over rated in terms of what wins a fight, in my view a fast plane with top of the line thrust and easy fast transitions is all you need, what I fly the D9 has one of those characteristics thrust the second fast transitions from nose up to nose down is a lot harder to manage.
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A planes ability to turn well can be used against them, it turns well yes but it must burn E doing that, I have found regardless of skill levels even at equal skill levels there is still a fork in the decision making process that you live or die by, sometimes its a second guess a gamble. In the case of a spit16 I find that although it is an excellent plane its main advantage ie turning can be used against it in the vertical and by its very nature of turning well it is less likely to have its highest energy state.
Also I think turn is over rated in terms of what wins a fight, in my view a fast plane with top of the line thrust and easy fast transitions is all you need, what I fly the D9 has one of those characteristics thrust the second fast transitions from nose up to nose down is a lot harder to manage.
But the Spits hold E extremely well in a turn. If the XVI pilot throttles down to match turn radius or to get inside the turn he still has the acceleration and power to go back into the vert with little effort. The K-4 might be the only other plane that could match it in that regard.
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Rarely do they come to these boards and mention those times where they've met a pilot behind a Spit with about equal, or even superior, skill level, and how the superior performance of the plane, coupled with a pilot as skilled as themselves, simply wooped their arses. :)
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The fact that a usually inferior, newbie-grade pilots are behind its controls in the MA, doesn't really adequately compliment what that plane can do.
And that's why chan 200 was invented.... sometimes people need to be reminded to remove their their training wheels :devil
On a serious note though.... the best advise is to not slow down... if you are in another late war monster...(k4/d9/p51...) just don't fight its game.... slash and strike and don't go under 350.
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But the Spits hold E extremely well in a turn. If the XVI pilot throttles down to match turn radius or to get inside the turn he still has the acceleration and power to go back into the vert with little effort. The K-4 might be the only other plane that could match it in that regard.
Or it might just be it is a lot easier for the spit to get his nose high quicker and therefore hold it there for longer