Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GScholz on February 12, 2013, 07:26:12 AM
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After 16 years with DEVGRU they just dump him with nothing to show for it.
http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313
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From the article I read it appears there is nothing wrong. The SEAL was not in long enough to get the full retirement benefits.
Being unemployed and with no benefits is not all that unusual for people leaving the military, especially if all they've known is combat arms.
I'm not sure how this is a disgrace? Because he chose to get out? Because he chose not to go active/inactive reserve? Because he chooses not to get a job?
I give this SEAL a lot of credit and he has all my respects, but just what needs to be done to make this "right" if no wrong has been done?
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I don't subscribe to your logic that "done by the book" equals "right". The fact that, as you say, "being unemployed and with no benefits is not all that unusual for people leaving the military" is a clear indication that something is very wrong.
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I don't subscribe to your logic that "done by the book" equals "right". The fact that, as you say, "being unemployed and with no benefits is not all that unusual for people leaving the military" is a clear indication that something is very wrong.
The currect requirements were not met. should the requirements change? Is the average taxpayer okay to change the requirements? Should there be exceptions to the requirrements? Will the guy that served in the ships galley for 16 years take exception to the exceptions?
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This man served 16 years in perhaps the most dangerous unit in your armed forces. He shot OBL in the face. He gets nothing?
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This man served 16 years in perhaps the most dangerous unit in your armed forces. He shot OBL in the face. He gets nothing?
Hey Im not saying its not an awesome thing he did but what exceptions to the rules should be made? How is it fair to the other's that serve but served in a different capacity, or even to others that have gone in harms way? This guy will save a ton of money on drinks alone.
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Double post here is a lawldog to atone
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxyhj1JloG1r9k8gao1_500.jpg)
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I don't subscribe to your logic that "done by the book" equals "right". The fact that, as you say, "being unemployed and with no benefits is not all that unusual for people leaving the military" is a clear indication that something is very wrong.
Those are the rules.
He knew and still does know them.
Yes, it is wrong.
Please come fix it.
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I guess I'm just used to a different reward system for national service.
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I guess I'm just used to a different reward system for national service.
We also do not have Fjords...
Norway must be an awesome place. :aok
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I guess I'm just used to a different reward system for national service.
But youre not stating why the rules should be bent to allow for what you are arguing. How can you justify bending the rules when there are ,many that serve that are just as deserving. What would be the argument to vhange the rules and can the govt afford to change those rules, can the taxpayer?
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We also do not have Fjords...
*Norway must be an awesome place. :aok
*Disclaimer: Even though they essentially surrendered to the Germans in WW2.
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*Disclaimer: Even though they essentially surrendered to the Germans in WW2.
:noid
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After 16 years with DEVGRU they just dump him with nothing to show for it.
http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313
You have to serve 20 years in order to get a pension, unless you are medically retired. This isn't anything new.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/esquire-seal-bin-laden-151615575.html
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We also do not have Fjords...
Norway must be an awesome place. :aok
That is an injustice I can correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_fjords_of_the_United_States
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But youre not stating why the rules should be bent to allow for what you are arguing. How can you justify bending the rules when there are ,many that serve that are just as deserving. What would be the argument to vhange the rules and can the govt afford to change those rules, can the taxpayer?
I'm not saying the rules should be bent for this man. I'm saying, in my opinion, it is a disgrace how this man (and others like him) is being treated by your government/armed forces.
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I'm not saying the rules should be bent for this man. I'm saying, in my opinion, it is a disgrace how this man (and others like him) is being treated by your government/armed forces.
HOw is that? The requirements are stated in fact. Are you advocating the requirements change? What are you basing your opinion of changing the requirements on?
EDIT cleaned up the syntax a little
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I read the article and have some serious problems with it. First off given the number of phonies that have cropped up I'm not entirely sure the "reporter" was actually speaking to a real live service member much less the guy who was actually in "seal team 6". BTW the SEALS themselves refer to it by the proper military designation of DEVGRU. There are some significant discrepancies in the article.
First off. Everyone who has completed basic training is aware that the only way to reach retirement status in the military is to satisfy the basic requirement. You must serve a minimum of 20 years of "good" and active service. To think that a SEAL, especially an E7 16 year vet SEAL, does not know this little tid bit by heart is beyond belief. If they are disabled on active duty they will be given a disability retirement prior to the 20 year time limit. Nothing in the "article" says that the individual interviewed satisfied that requirement.
Secondly, when one does not re enlist you end your service time. Every enlisted man knows without a doubt when their enlistment contract is up and what happens to you when you fail to re enlist. If they. for some reason run afoul of the military and are given a bar to re enlistment, they are made painfully aware of that during the process whereupon they are given the bar to re enlistment. In short, they screwed up, not enough to be court marshaled but enough to insure they do not continue to screw up in the service. That means they do not get retirement benefits if the have not fulfilled the minimum requirements for same. The article hints that "shooter" had trouble with other team members lately. That hardly qualifies for separation from the service. If this guy really is one of the team members the Navy would bend over backwards to make sure he got his retirement including putting him in any number of positions outside of SEAL duty status. The Navy has absolutely no reason to dump on a stud like the folks who DID cap OBL. at the very least it would be bad press and they don't need any of that.
Military benefits are given to the members of the military and retirees. Not to folks who fail to complete the terms of the 20 year retirement. Again, everyone who completes basic has been made very aware of this issue.
Folks who achieve the status of veteran DO have access to the VA medical system. All you have to do is walk inside the nearest VA facility and sign up provided you can show you qualify. His DD-214 given to him upon leaving the service gives him that proof as does his records accessible by the VA. Nothing in the article says the person interviewed has any knowledge of that well known fact. I say well known because folks in the military, especially those qualifying vets separating from the service are told that bit of info. People who have been on active duty also know the medical system they are in is called TRICARE. It isn't referred to as "health insurance".
If this guy was sincere about wanting to protect his family the LAST thing he would do is leave the service. He had access to base housing, on a fairly secure facility wherever he would be transferred in the US. If really necessary they would pull strings to get him a new identity to help secure his families safety. When you quit you don't have that option.
Frankly given the author of the article is also responsible for some rather far left leaning pieces and a book, I have serious doubts about anything he writes in regards to the military.
Check out his blog and read up on some of the info. It is by a real military person and the site works to expose military phonies. The blog is title, This ain't hell, but you can see it from here.
http://thisainthell.us/blog/
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He thought if he got out early, he'd make a butt load of cash off of his story when he wrote the book. The NDA he signed however when he was discharged pretty much ruined his plans of writing a book and cashing in.
ack-ack
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My opinion is based on that article; if the article is factually wrong/fraudulent then my opinion is also wrong.
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My opinion is based on that article; if the article is factually wrong/fraudulent then my opinion is also wrong.
The Esquire article fails to mention that the SEAL does have free medical insurance through the VA for 5 years, something the SEAL should have known when he left the service.
ack-ack
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My opinion is based on that article; if the article is factually wrong/fraudulent then my opinion is also wrong.
Lets say it wasnt. You dont want to make an exception so then you would have to change the requirements, right? How do you think all the new people that meet the requirements would effect things?
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I guess I'm just used to a different reward system for national service.
Again... do you know much how the US military works? How the benefits work once service is done? How much time needs to be served in order to achieve %100 retirement, etc. Dig a bit and learn the system before you so hastily bark about wrong doing. No one will disagree with you about what the SEAL went though. However, it is %100 volunteer and he chose to get out when he did. No worry though, now that he has gone public someone will pay him a nice fee for his story. There is a reason he went public and people like you are falling hook, line, and sinker for it all. ;)
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I think someone fishing but the fish are getting smarter.
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All I know is that even 1-year conscripts over here are eligible for welfare while looking for work after they've left the service. I know you guys have a limited welfare system too that is based on how many years you've worked; does a soldier's years in service count towards this welfare? If it doesn't don't you think it should?
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All I know is that even 1-year conscripts over here are eligible for welfare while looking for work after they've left the service. I know you guys have a limited welfare system too that is based on how many years you've worked; does a soldier's years in service count towards this welfare? If it doesn't don't you think it should?
I think usually you need children to get welfare. Rigth now I would guess we have as many people unemployed as you have in total population, also we are a little more technologically evolved. We can't just go out and shoot a narwal to stock the fridge.
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That's an interesting opinion, even if it is erroneous.
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That's an interesting opinion, even if it is erroneous.
You dont really back your statments up with much explination you know.so in return:
OH yeah? Well, nuh-uh.
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That's an interesting opinion, even if it is erroneous.
Don't let him kid you.
We have plenty of deer to eat, and the occasional Chupacabra...
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It's a digression. If you start your own thread on "technological evolved countries and whale hunting" I'll be happy to comment in more detail.
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It's a digression. If you start your own thread on "technological evolved countries and whale hunting" I'll be happy to comment in more detail.
Point is are you advocating changing the requirements and where would the money come from? This sentence removed d/t to stinky
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I think usually you need children to get welfare. Rigth now I would guess we have as many people unemployed as you have in total population, also we are a little more technologically evolved. We can't just go out and shoot a narwal to stock the fridge.
:rofl
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Point is are you advocating changing the requirements and where would the money come from? This sentence removed d/t to stinky
I'm not advocating changing the requirements of military pension. I'm saying soldiers who leave the service (honorably) should get some kind of financial support until they find civilian work. Big difference.
People who work in other occupations do get such benefits in your country; it is called "unemployment compensation".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits#United_States
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Referring to the article, I certainly am not going to make assumptions as to the validity of the guy, he may well be everything he claims to be and if so then he deserves a huge :salute as do all the guys in the team. There are however some glaringly questionable parts to the printed testimony, not least his surprise at how tall Bin Laden was, when they had apparently trained incessantly to recognise their targets at a glance and yet he still mentioned twice how surprised he was that he was so tall. If someone tells me a guy is 6'3" I doubt it would be a shock when I actually saw him
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I'm not advocating changing the requirements of military pension. I'm saying soldiers who leave the service (honorably) should get some kind of financial support until they find civilian work. Big difference.
People who work in other occupations do get such benefits in your country; it is called "unemployment compensation".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits#United_States
http://www.vets4veterans.com/Unemployment.htm
Pehaps you shouldnt trust wiki as your go to source for things in a foreign country.
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You know... You're right. Perhaps I should instead post on a forum where people from said foreign country hang out... Oh wait.
I've actually learned a lot from this thread. :aok
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You know... You're right. Perhaps I should instead post on a forum where people from said foreign country hang out... Oh wait.
I've actually learned a lot from this thread. :aok
Is it to do a very basic search on for easily obtained information? I have no recourse to view this as a failed troll. From the agressive wording in your op to your just throwing wiki out as some type of answer.
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If this thread is a troll, who exactly am I trying to troll?
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If this thread is a troll, who exactly am I trying to troll?
Im not taking that bait.
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I was no SEAL by any means I was just an Air Force wing wiper.. I got out after 16 years taking the early separation bonus during the post Desert Storm military down sizing. I thought I'd get rich as a civi. ;)
The years don't matter if you do not retire once you walk out that gate for the last time.. Its over. No Medical Insurance no BX no Commissary no Life Insurance No Monthly Check. You don't get to use your rank as a title like[Rank Here]USAF RET or [Rank Here] USN RET in this guy's case. It is not like they hide this from you when you decide to separate instead of retire. It was explained to me multiple times before I separated. It is still a bit of a shock because after that amount of time you are used to the way the military operates and the civilian world is a mysterious mess. I do wish this American hero all the best and I deeply appreciate his service and sacrifices. I do hope a wonderful enriching life awaits him as a civilian. :salute
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Im not taking that bait.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
I spotted the article on our veterans association FB page and thought it was objective. Apparently it isn't. I also thought it would be of interest to people here. Now, I'm sure you know what you can go do with yourself.
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Yeah, that's what I thought.
I spotted the article on our veterans association FB page and thought it was objective. Apparently it isn't. I also thought it would be of interest to people here. Now, I'm sure you know what you can go do with yourself.
OK sorry I must have mistaken your intentions your OP could be as incitful(not insight but incite) as changeups post from the other night. Its a post on another gov'ts policies, by someone that doesnt live in that country using questionable links on a topic that could easily stir emotions. You had to know in this enviroment it wouldnt be civil for long. Im not trying tro be uncivil Im just questioning your motives.
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He served, as many of us have. He volunteered and served with an elite unit, as many have.
He was put in a position to do his job that he was trained for, as many have.
He got out before his retirement eligibility, which many have.
The big difference? He stands to make millions of dollars in the near future,
by doing what he was trained and paid to do, which many do not have a chance to.
I salute him for a job well done, as many have.
I don't however feel sorry for him, he knew the retirement regulations as far as time requirements,
regardless of Unit, Rank, Missions you were involved in.
:cheers: Oz
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He served, as many of us have. He volunteered and served with an elite unit, as many have.
He was put in a position to do his job that he was trained for, as many have.
He got out before his retirement eligibility, which many have.
The big difference? He stands to make millions of dollars in the near future,
by doing what he was trained and paid to do, which many do not have a chance to.
I salute him for a job well done, as many have.
I don't however feel sorry for him, he knew the retirement regulations as far as time requirements,
regardless of Unit, Rank, Missions you were involved in.
:cheers: Oz
Well said.
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He served, as many of us have. He volunteered and served with an elite unit, as many have.
He was put in a position to do his job that he was trained for, as many have.
He got out before his retirement eligibility, which many have.
The big difference? He stands to make millions of dollars in the near future,
by doing what he was trained and paid to do, which many do not have a chance to.
I salute him for a job well done, as many have.
I don't however feel sorry for him, he knew the retirement regulations as far as time requirements,
regardless of Unit, Rank, Missions you were involved in.
:cheers: Oz
:aok
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I agree with GScholz, but i also agree exactly with OZrocker.
All the guy needs to do is fade away and write a book.
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OK sorry I must have mistaken your intentions your OP could be as incitful(not insight but incite) as changeups post from the other night. Its a post on another gov'ts policies, by someone that doesnt live in that country using questionable links on a topic that could easily stir emotions. You had to know in this enviroment it wouldnt be civil for long. Im not trying tro be uncivil Im just questioning your motives.
Apology accepted. I really respect that Sir.
Veteran rights is a "hot topic" in my country, and has been for several years now. Being a war veteran myself I have a more than average interest in this issue.