Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Randy1 on February 15, 2013, 07:56:11 AM
-
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s. They seem to be everywhere and in large, high packs as well as the usual vulture role. There was a long thread on 109, 190 pouching not long ago but it seems worse in the last couple of weeks.
I have had to leave the P47 and P38 ranks and go to a P51 for survival. Yes i do use the speed to escape and gain E back before I return but a guy has to do what a guy has to do to stay in the game. I know their are squadrons of 109s and 190s but with the other independents the numbers seem higher.
I would suggest a more complicated control of the different planes and their models. If the number of the different planes by year as an example are available then use that to limit the planes available. It might be even adjusted by map. Since the late war arena is so dominant, then subdivide the maps into early, late war and end of war. As an example say the number of P51Ds was 20% of the total planes for a given year and I come in the MA and want a P51D or a late model 109. When I choose it I get a message saying choose another model or plane since the maximum planes number has been exceeded but check back latter. Albeit late model squadrons in this example might be a problem if all members could not get that model.
The numbers control system has big holes in it for sure but the competitive nature of the simulation will push more and more people to get the better planes to stay in the game. I know those dedicated to like the P38 will never change and some are good enough to beat off any challenge but for the average Joe or Betty, a better end of the war plane may be answer that more and more people choose.
As a new guy, this opinion has limited expertise to back it up so I will not be offended at all if y'all say I am wrong in my observations and solutions.
-
:lol
Beer.
-
Fly the 109's and 190's a bit. This should at least give you some ideas as to how best to kill them.
:salute
-
They are both excellent fighters one should see a lot of them. What's not to like about them?
In the game the 190 is used because of its guns speed, and roll rate, 109 for its' vertical abilities.
In game ...I may be behind the pulse of the game the K4 is the favorite I believe of the Luftwaffe planes.
Allied Pilots however considered the 190 the most dangerous of the two. Big difference between
the game and actual combat flying during WWII. We pay no penalties here. Pilots did then.
-
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s. They seem to be everywhere and in large, high packs as well as the usual vulture role. There was a long thread on 109, 190 pouching not long ago but it seems worse in the last couple of weeks.
I have had to leave the P47 and P38 ranks and go to a P51 for survival. Yes i do use the speed to escape and gain E back before I return but a guy has to do what a guy has to do to stay in the game. I know their are squadrons of 109s and 190s but with the other independents the numbers seem higher.
I would suggest a more complicated control of the different planes and their models. If the number of the different planes by year as an example are available then use that to limit the planes available. It might be even adjusted by map. Since the late war arena is so dominant, then subdivide the maps into early, late war and end of war. As an example say the number of P51Ds was 20% of the total planes for a given year and I come in the MA and want a P51D or a late model 109. When I choose it I get a message saying choose another model or plane since the maximum planes number has been exceeded but check back latter. Albeit late model squadrons in this example might be a problem if all members could not get that model.
The numbers control system has big holes in it for sure but the competitive nature of the simulation will push more and more people to get the better planes to stay in the game. I know those dedicated to like the P38 will never change and some are good enough to beat off any challenge but for the average Joe or Betty, a better end of the war plane may be answer that more and more people choose.
As a new guy, this opinion has limited expertise to back it up so I will not be offended at all if y'all say I am wrong in my observations and solutions.
Don't take this wrong...or as the usual beatdown of an idea however: The big problem with limiting plane types in the MA, especially in regard to popular types is that you limit the availability of plane types. Sounds circular but the issue is that people play the game in order to fly a certain type of plane many times. If you take that away and especially so with popular planes (190, 51, 109, Spitfire, F4U etc.) then you take away one of the big draws to the game. This applies to a specific varient of a particular plane as much as the general type of plane.
There have always been and will always be certain plane types that are popular. Spitfires, 190s and 51's for example are always popular and flown a great deal. On the other hand some planes seem to go in cycles of popularity. When I last played (2006) Ki-84's were seen much but I loved it. When I came back all the sudden I see Ki-84s much more frequently. The 109's can sort of be put into this catagory or at least certain varients can be in this catagory. I suspect there are any number of reasons but the result is they will be popular for a certain while then something else will take it's place and the numbers will drop to the core numbers.
We already have a mechanism for limiting plane available based on historical timesets within the war. These arenas don't see anywhere near the numbers as the LWMA. I think it's an all or nothing deal brought about by limited planesets. So the plane set is limited so that players can't get what they want to fly. The player goes elsewhere....which results in a population drop that just feeds on itself until the arena is mostly empty, most of the time. So even if you were inclined to try the mid-war arena it doesn't appear at first glance to have any fights so you go the LWMA.
The point is that limiting planesets in this manner (historical availability based on timeline) doesn't seem to work real well. Most players seem to want to have a choice of all planes available in Aces High (as do I). Limiting it in terms of numbers (i.e. 20 Mustangs avail. total) would result in at least some folks constantly rearming while flying incredibly timid. Even worse what's to keep them from logging on and just sitting somewhere out of the way while they are afk for an hour, thus denying others the usage for no good reason. Perking certain planes is as close as you're gonna get.
Zaphod
-
Whine or a Wish?
-
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s. They seem to be everywhere and in large, high packs as well as the usual vulture role. There was a long thread on 109, 190 pouching not long ago but it seems worse in the last couple of weeks.
I have had to leave the P47 and P38 ranks and go to a P51 for survival. Yes i do use the speed to escape and gain E back before I return but a guy has to do what a guy has to do to stay in the game. I know their are squadrons of 109s and 190s but with the other independents the numbers seem higher.
I would suggest a more complicated control of the different planes and their models. If the number of the different planes by year as an example are available then use that to limit the planes available. It might be even adjusted by map. Since the late war arena is so dominant, then subdivide the maps into early, late war and end of war. As an example say the number of P51Ds was 20% of the total planes for a given year and I come in the MA and want a P51D or a late model 109. When I choose it I get a message saying choose another model or plane since the maximum planes number has been exceeded but check back latter. Albeit late model squadrons in this example might be a problem if all members could not get that model.
The numbers control system has big holes in it for sure but the competitive nature of the simulation will push more and more people to get the better planes to stay in the game. I know those dedicated to like the P38 will never change and some are good enough to beat off any challenge but for the average Joe or Betty, a better end of the war plane may be answer that more and more people choose.
As a new guy, this opinion has limited expertise to back it up so I will not be offended at all if y'all say I am wrong in my observations and solutions.
Awwww Randy, you were doing so good, and then this! Short answer is don't worry about what other people fly, just learn to shoot them down!
Limiting planes is always a touchy subject. As stated, people play the game to fly the plane they like. Bruv fly's the spit because he likes it, not because its an easy plane to fly :devil Twinboom, Delirium, and AKAK fly the 38 not because it's easyer/hearder (depending on who you ask) to fly but because it's the plane they like to fly (oh and all of those guys have no problems dropping 190s and 109s).
It seems you have reached one of those "plateaus" everyone reaches now and then. Soon you'll find that little bit of timing, or awareness to push you to the next stage where a question like this one becomes nothing at all.
-
190s and 109s have ALWAYS been very common in the MAs. Always. They are popular rides. You're only just now taking notice of them, is all. They've always been there. They haven't had a surge in use is my guess.
190s aren't a problem, really. Only the dora is fast enough to run down most planes. Their maneuverability is really such that most pilots can't kill you once they catch you in one. You can handily beat them in most cases. 109s are the more common. They have enough speed and the modest maneuverability to dispatch you once they chase you down. However, only the K-4 is the real runner. The G-14s are pretty fast too, but still not the runners that most late war planes are.
The thing about 109s is that the faster they are, the worse their flat turning can be. They have the engine power to go vertical, but because of this they can be beaten with the right tactics.
They're hardly as easy-mode as... say... spit16 hordes. Or the La7 hordes of years gone by.
-
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s. .
The FIGHTER USAGE (kill+deaths) share of all 109's and 190's (including Ta 152H) compared to the P-51D alone. Keep in mind the current tour is only halfway through.
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/184/109190quickusage.jpg)
-
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s.
It has been said that most of the players in the arena do not read the forums. I do not have any stats to back this up.
-
I have had to leave the xxxxxx and P38 ranks and go to a P51 for survival.
Poppycock!
-
I sure cannot argue with any of the replies. Could well be a coincidence on the time I selected to fly and the home base choice of the last few days that a lot of 109s and 190s were trying to or had establish fighter caps.
I hope this was not seen as a whine Fugative but more of an observation that is somewhat bore out by Lusche numbers albeit my case, using his numbers, is still weak.
:joystick: I think my biggest problem is I am addicted to furballs and I like the planes not best suited for that type of fight so any diving planes from above makes furballing that much harder. :bhead
Thanks for the replies. Lusche special thanks for the numbers.
-
I'm sure Lusche could demonstrate that the small increase in 109 usage for Feb. is almost exclusively in the 109F-4.
Guys are getting ready for the Malta Scenario in March.
Canukk alone...who almost always flys the 190 has 240 plus victories late war already this month in the 109F. He's everywhere in it... :lol
-
I'm sure Lusche could demonstrate that the small increase in 109 usage for Feb. is almost exclusively in the 109F-4.
The 109F had a very notable increase indeed (+44% realatively to January) , but in absolut numbers the 109K had about the same increase.
-
The 109F had a very notable increase indeed (+44% realatively to January) , but in absolut numbers the 109K had about the same increase.
:aok
8 minutes...a snails pace!
K-4 increasing... gotta be the sexy factor.
-
I think the increase in 109's is attributed to the inclusion of the new skins. Give the creator a pat on the back, because they're great. :noid
-
Some more stuff...
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/fghtrusageexpl_zps4b587f90.jpg)
(190s includes Ta 152H, Spits includes Seafire)
On a related note...
Would it be of any interest if I would create a kind of 'Lusche's Stats' megathread? In the past 5 years I have made countless statistics and charts, but most of them are just buried in long forgotten threads all over the BBS, even though their content might still be of interest. That thread would be a place where I could always post such snippets in, and it probably wouldn't entirely disappear from the forum surface.
:headscratch:
-
Those canons sure take their toll.
-
Some do in Malta may have brought about mopre 109F :noid
-
On a related note...
Would it be of any interest if I would create a kind of 'Lusche's Stats' megathread?
Yes please.
-
Two words for ya........MOAR TATERS! Thanks and credits to RedBull for the invention of that phrase.....
-
I sure cannot argue with any of the replies. Could well be a coincidence on the time I selected to fly and the home base choice of the last few days that a lot of 109s and 190s were trying to or had establish fighter caps.
I hope this was not seen as a whine Fugative but more of an observation that is somewhat bore out by Lusche numbers albeit my case, using his numbers, is still weak.
:joystick: I think my biggest problem is I am addicted to furballs and I like the planes not best suited for that type of fight so any diving planes from above makes furballing that much harder. :bhead
Thanks for the replies. Lusche special thanks for the numbers.
You are not that far off. Planes are already limited by ENY. As the ENY limit changes, sometimes you can't grab the plane you want. ENY is currently base on population of each country (and possibly, how many bases they hold?). What you are really proposing is basing it on how many of each model are already in flight. WMAKER, proposed the same thing a few moths ago. Your idea and his could be combined where the ENY could be based on (ARENA #s of that plane)/(HISTORIC DISTRIBUTIONS). WMAKER was speaking about the ability of the plane to earn perks (IIRC), whereas you are talking about historic balance of plane numbers. HTC recognizes there should be limits on some rides based on capability and historic use, hence the Perk system exists, but they also want to allow as much freedonm to play with what ever plane you choose.
You idea probably needs a little development based on how it would impact players and the game. I encourge you to get some a data and tell us more...
Vinkman :salute
-
A perk tag is only a soft limit, unlike the ENY limit. If you got the points you can fly them and you fly them for free as long as you land. Players that spend most of their time in planes with ENY higher than 5, very quickly rack up hundreds and even thousands of perk points. If you fly for the less populated countries you earn more perks and get a discount in the perk tags, making some perked rides dirty cheap.
The perk tag is mostly a psychological limit. With just a couple of hundred perks one can probably fly nothing but Chogs for many tours, even if his K/D is unimpressive.
btw, I too noticed an increase in the frequency of 190s and 109s that I meet. Not that it bothers me, they go down and/or kill me just like that P51s and Spits do. Also since I tend to fly mostly allied planes, blasting the Luftwaffe out of the sky seems more appropriate. Maybe it is just the player population that matures - new players gravitate towards the Spits and P51s, but as players get more proficient, many discover the crisp handling and firepower of the 190 and the excellent balance between speed, excess power and turn of the 109s and switch to those planes. I rarely notice two-weekers these days, so either I am getting blind to them or that there are just few of them and the rest of the player base are more experienced on average.
-
Let's not forget the social considerations. :old:
Dweebs fly Spits.
Cool kids fly 109's.
Peer pressure is terrible. :old:
-
Let's not forget the social considerations. :old:
Dweebs fly Spits.
Cool kids fly 109's.
Peer pressure is terrible. :old:
Well, generally as I see it dweebs fly Spitfires and P-51Ds and whiners fly Bf109s and Fw190s.
-
K4? Almost as easy as a brew. Only noobs fly them.
-
K4? Almost as easy as a brew. Only noobs fly them.
But what if you're a nub?
-
Das Muppets set the trend. Everyone wants to be us or beat us. Either way, I love the attention.
-
On a related note...
Would it be of any interest if I would create a kind of 'Lusche's Stats' megathread? In the past 5 years I have made countless statistics and charts, but most of them are just buried in long forgotten threads all over the BBS, even though their content might still be of interest. That thread would be a place where I could always post such snippets in, and it probably wouldn't entirely disappear from the forum surface.
:headscratch:
It would be interesting Might help too when facts get left out of an argument.
-
:lol
Beer.
:ahand
:cheers: :aok :lol :D :t :rock
:banana: :airplane: :joystick:
:salute
-
I have had to leave the P47 and P38 ranks and go to a P51 for survival. Yes i do use the speed to escape and gain E back before I return but a guy has to do what a guy has to do to stay in the game. I know their are squadrons of 109s and 190s but with the other independents the numbers seem higher.
Mr LilMak, please pick up the white courtesy phone in the training area....you have a phone call....Mr LilMak, white courtesy phone please....
-
LOL Changeup! I rarely survive. But I could do so a lot more if I made the effort. Randy1 is a good dude. He's got the right attitude. He needs to stay out of that crutch 51 though.
-
I just Googled this "survival" term. Strange word and I am having a hard time seeing how it fits into AH? I normally end a sortie in a spinning ball of flames. Hopefully theres more than 1 red guy around so I can blame a gang instead owning up to my subpar SA & questionable decision making.
AMAX
-
Poppycock!
Agreed have flown the 38 much, although as of late been flying the K4 as a new thilla, no reason you cannot learn to pwn in the 38s, just need to learn the way to fly around the Lufts.
Fly with the 80th for a bit they will so you...........
HL
-
SAPP motto: "We may kill you, but don't worry -- we won't ever get to land the kills!"
:banana:
(okay, it's not. But it should be!)
-
Let's not forget the social considerations. :old:
Dweebs fly Spits.
Cool kids fly 109's.
Peer pressure is terrible. :old:
Pffft.
-
Pffft.
Dismissive. I like it.
Let us now hear your rebuttal. :x
-
Das Muppets set the trend. Everyone wants to be us or beat us. Either way, I love the attention.
^^^ what he said.. :D
-
LOL Changeup! I rarely survive. But I could do so a lot more if I made the effort. Randy1 is a good dude. He's got the right attitude. He needs to stay out of that crutch 51 though.
I appreciate your humility...it doesn't exist much in this game, but this ^^^^ simply is not true because I've seen you 100+ times walk out of "that" situation and land. Now, your JUG is shot to hell, but its limping along! :rofl :salute
-
LOL Changeup! I rarely survive. But I could do so a lot more if I made the effort. Randy1 is a good dude. He's got the right attitude. He needs to stay out of that crutch 51 though.
Thanks for the good dude. ;) think you have burned my buttt more than once but it was good fight. I keep trying the 38 and I didagain last night. You are right on the 51 crutch thing. If you fly a 38 or a 47 you had better push the plane and yourself hard and that has really helped my skill level. In a furball if I can get a rhythm of high yo-yo's going in the P38 and I have wep I can be pretty good. When I get pinched by one spit and loose E then I seem to be a sitting duck for the next spit or 109.
As I see it the 51 does give you an option to speed away and up for a better E position and you can close faster which means less time fixed on a target.
-
Thanks for the good dude. ;) think you have burned my buttt more than once but it was good fight. I keep trying the 38 and I didagain last night. You are right on the 51 crutch thing. If you fly a 38 or a 47 you had better push the plane and yourself hard and that has really helped my skill level. In a furball if I can get a rhythm of high yo-yo's going in the P38 and I have wep I can be pretty good. When I get pinched by one spit and loose E then I seem to be a sitting duck for the next spit or 109.
As I see it the 51 does give you an option to speed away and up for a better E position and you can close faster which means less time fixed on a target.
If you're a little more selective on how you enter a furball, you can give yourself more options as the fight degrades. This can be accomplished with just about any plane without having the pure get away speed the 51 carries. Your P-38 Kung fu is pretty strong. With a couple adjustments, you'll be in the SAPP category and pretty lethal.
-
If you're a little more selective on how you enter a furball, you can give yourself more options as the fight degrades. This can be accomplished with just about any plane without having the pure get away speed the 51 carries. Your P-38 Kung fu is pretty strong. With a couple adjustments, you'll be in the SAPP category and pretty lethal.
You hit the nail right on the head. I need to work on that. My ability to select the right entry into a furball is getting better but still not good. Once I get too deep I start loosing SA and when I do that, I waist E and as all know, E is life in a furball or for that matter, any dogfight.
Another problem is that decision point on the deck to flat turn low g or high g or try to reverse with a high yoyo. Latrobe had made note in another post that a high yo-yo can be a real looser sometimes.
You got me cranked. Next time back in the MA I will go back to the P38. Maybe even find me a 109 or two. :joystick: :aok
-
You hit the nail right on the head. I need to work on that. My ability to select the right entry into a furball is getting better but still not good. Once I get too deep I start loosing SA and when I do that, I waist E and as all know, E is life in a furball or for that matter, any dogfight.
Yes to E in a furball.
1 v 1 though, if you have more E than the con than sometimes dumping it works well, depending on the position and what plane you're flying. It's risky though, and maybe smarter players don't do it.
-
Some more stuff...
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/fghtrusageexpl_zps4b587f90.jpg)
(190s includes Ta 152H, Spits includes Seafire)
On a related note...
Would it be of any interest if I would create a kind of 'Lusche's Stats' megathread? In the past 5 years I have made countless statistics and charts, but most of them are just buried in long forgotten threads all over the BBS, even though their content might still be of interest. That thread would be a place where I could always post such snippets in, and it probably wouldn't entirely disappear from the forum surface.
:headscratch:
I would really like a compilation of those stats, whatever they are. I love stats! :D
On another note. What caused the large decrease in spitfire usage starting in 2009?
-
On another note. What caused the large decrease in spitfire usage starting in 2009?
I really don't know. There wasn't any internal factor, like remodeling any plane or a general change of the flight model.
But here's some nice food for thought: We had a significant reduction in the AH population after 2009, especially in 2010. Which coincidentally matches the 'decline' of the Spitfire. Or is it not coincidentally at all? :noid
-
I really don't know. There wasn't any internal factor, like remodeling any plane or a general change of the flight model.
But here's some nice food for thought: We had a significant reduction in the AH population after 2009, especially in 2010. Which coincidentally matches the 'decline' of the Spitfire. Or is it not coincidentally at all? :noid
Could it be related to larger maps? Spits don't have great range or ammo, so I would think Trinity resetting every Tuesday might have an impact.
-
Could it be related to larger maps? Spits don't have great range or ammo, so I would think Trinity resetting every Tuesday might have an impact.
Hardly. We had large maps up before, they weren't suddenly reappearing. Also I checked plane usage on different maps last year. The only major impact maps did have on fighter usage was a drop in blue plane usage on pure land maps. Short range fighters like the Spitfires are see about the same level of usage on all maps
Another theory of mine is that we maybe lost more European (British) or generally non-US players than Americans... but that theory is completely unfounded beyond my very subjective perception that off-hour player numbers had dropped more than prime time US numbers.
-
Hardly. We had large maps up before, they weren't suddenly reappearing. Also I checked plane usage on different maps last year. The only major impact maps did have on fighter usage was a drop in blue plane usage on pure land maps. Short range fighters like the Spitfires are see about the same level of usage on all maps
Another theory of mine is that we maybe lost more European (British) or generally non-US players than Americans... but that theory is completely unfounded beyond my very subjective perception that off-hour player numbers had dropped more than prime time US numbers.
I was getting at could perhaps the single main arena coupled with the Titanic Tuesday auto map reset have an effect on the number of spits flying. Trinity is in it's own class as far as big maps go, I was thinking it might have an effect on the prevalence of Spitfires.
I'm sure you're right, just making sure we're talking about the same thing. And ty for the "hardly," very amusing.
-
I was getting at could perhaps the single main arena coupled with the Titanic Tuesday auto map reset have an effect on the number of spits flying.
We had two arenas & TT until June 2011 and single arena, no TT from then on.
And for trinity alone to have such an impact on overall, long-time Spit usage, it must have been almost completely devoid of any - something that we would surely had noticed. On top of that, there was not really more long range-combat. It's just that the action was mainly reduced to 2-3 initial spots and a lot of ganging on one country once a breakthrough was made.
And ty for the "hardly," very amusing.
You are welcome... :uhoh
-
Got it, I think. So what would you attribute the falloff in Spitfire usage then, if it is indeed statistically significant? Or isn't it that big a shift?
-
Got it, I think. So what would you attribute the falloff in Spitfire usage then, if it is indeed statistically significant? Or isn't it that big a shift?
I already posted my only guess - less non-US players -, but I also stated I have nothing much to support it. The only numerical thing that I could 'prove' is that it happend along with a reduction of overall player numbers (and once that decline stopped/slowed down, the Spit 'decline' stopped as well), but that still doesn't prove anything.
And yes, the shift is very much significant as you can see by the chart - For years the Spits had a very high share of about 20% which they could hold up despite more and more fighetrs getting added to AH. And then all of a sudden it dropped by almost 25%.
-
Very interesting, nothing like stats. The non-US thing seems sketchy but best candidate. Maybe less new new players might equal less spits? Reaching I think, but there must be an explanation.
Looking forward to the stats megathread if you decide to do it.
-
I blame Midway and the whole anti Spitfire crowd.
They are just jealous that the Spitfire's awesomeness will always make them look fat and Ugly in their B38's and emo Luft rides. As an in built defensive mechanism they cry easy mode soon as someone with a better appreciation of the Flight Model and ACM comes along and woops them in anything they choose from the hangar.
I will fly more Spitfire sorties as a result of this alarming news. :old:
-
I really don't know. There wasn't any internal factor, like remodeling any plane or a general change of the flight model.
But here's some nice food for thought: We had a significant reduction in the AH population after 2009, especially in 2010. Which coincidentally matches the 'decline' of the Spitfire. Or is it not coincidentally at all? :noid
was 2009 when they split the arenas causing havoc amongst GMT players who had to deal with the reset right on login time? and fly in an empty arena for 3 hours? or stuck away from their squaddies?
-
I blame Midway and the whole anti Spitfire crowd.
They are just jealous that the Spitfire's awesomeness will always make them look fat and Ugly in their B38's and emo Luft rides. As an in built defensive mechanism they cry easy mode soon as someone with a better appreciation of the Flight Model and ACM comes along and woops them in anything they choose from the hangar.
I will fly more Spitfire sorties as a result of this alarming news. :old:
Spitfire's are ugly and for noobs :old:
109's are too sexy for you :old:
Also, pie is amazing :old:
Zack, where is my $50? :)
-
I blame Midway and the whole anti Spitfire crowd.
They are just jealous that the Spitfire's awesomeness will always make them look fat and Ugly in their B38's and emo Luft rides. As an in built defensive mechanism they cry easy mode soon as someone with a better appreciation of the Flight Model and ACM comes along and woops them in anything they choose from the hangar.
I will fly more Spitfire sorties as a result of this alarming news. :old:
So following your logic...
1: Spitfires are awesome, better than the other planes, ergo its easy mode.
2: The luftwannabe crowd are just a bunch of crybabies. Ergo, the spitfire isnt as awesome as they state, isnt as easy mode.
uhm... allright... cuz you are... the perfect...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XiYUYcpsT4
Btw, 109s are for the amazinghunks. Spits are for the (forever) newbies or the score chasers. Be a man, turn that 190 :aok
aaaaaand pies are awesom!!
:lol
-
for score purposes i'd much rather take a 262 or 190D, get more kills per sortie that way.
don't get me started on the easiness of the 109 F, G2 G6 and K4 (probably in the top 3 non perked A2A fighters in game) 1 hit 1 kill, point and click, might aswell fly it with a mouse!! :old: :old:
embrace the Spitfire because without it we would all be living in a much darker place!! I often lie awake at night thinking how Hitler would have assaulted mainland America had they not agreed terms. :eek:
I'm not into self harming ie flying a 190D and trying to out turn everybody. I'll leave that to fruitcakes like Pervert and yourself. :salute
pies are awesome! :D
-
was 2009 when they split the arenas causing havoc amongst GMT players who had to deal with the reset right on login time? and fly in an empty arena for 3 hours? or stuck away from their squaddies?
The Great Arena Split happened in 2006
-
I welcome a more diverse plane representation in the virtual skies of AH. Seeing 109's is a good thing, along with the 190's. It actually takes some time to learn the tricks and quirks of those 2 planes, neither are simply "hop in and go" like the typical easy mode planes. There is nothing more fulfilling than being in a 109G or a 190 and handing a P51/La7 their tail section and sending them back to the tower. One of the most memorable dogfights I had was hanging out in a 190A-5 at 20k and taking a few minutes to out maneuver a P51D on equal E footing, then having him go nose down to run away. By a stroke of luck I was able to land enough 20mm hits at 600+ yards as he dove away to hand him vertical stabilizer. I sent him a friendly PM congratulating and thanking him on a very fun and entertaining dogfight, he was not amused and had every excuse in the book as to why he lost and downplayed my "luck" in staying with him. Anyways... I think having more aircraft in the skies than the typical rubber stamp set list is welcoming.
I'm so tired of being able to predict a horde plane set, or being able to even predict long visuals out enemy contacts out of icon range. The horde monkeys would impress me with their 30v1 hordes if they got the job done in P40N's, 190F-8's, or other such aircraft that would force them to work. But alas... that is too much of a challenge. ;)
-
Good Sir, let ME start on the easyness of the 109s, you in the named 109, me in the named spit, you wouldnt win one fight, and vice versa too :)
They are so easy, especially since the G2 has the 1 round 1 kill tater gun :old:
Also, i dont want to idsappoint you, but balding the G6 wont take the wanted effect as i did not fly that aircraft for a good while. :aok
By the way, Pervert never or very rarely turns the 190. He energy-fights as long as possible. Yup, he is much wiser than me :old:
You were wise enough too not to come down in those KOTHs too... you knew what would have been the result :devil
-
Yes, Spitfires are easy mode. They were easy mode in WWII as well, and that is a good thing, contrary to popular opinion here.
-
I like the Spitfire, it's a cute toy, but the 109 is a fighting machine.
-
Spitfire looks nice, the 109 looks like a fighter. :t
-
Anything but a Brewster. :aok
-
As I experiment with different planes, there seems to be perimeters to fights that each is suited for in a rule of thumb sort of way. As an example I have had great success coming off a carrier with a Seafire and jumping into a furball that is on or very near the deck. It is slow, turns tight and has canons. Not much can turn with it. However, take the fight up a bit and it is in deep trouble.
I can deal with 109s and 190s on the deck easier than I can at 10K. Any of the planes that have skyrocket like climb rates are hard for me to bet in that 5-10K range.
Unless they are pushed down or caught under a fighter cap, I don't see a lot of 109s and 190s low in my limited experience.
-
As I experiment with different planes, there seems to be perimeters to fights that each is suited for in a rule of thumb sort of way. As an example I have had great success coming off a carrier with a Seafire and jumping into a furball that is on or very near the deck. It is slow, turns tight and has canons. Not much can turn with it. However, take the fight up a bit and it is in deep trouble.
I can deal with 109s and 190s on the deck easier than I can at 10K. Any of the planes that have skyrocket like climb rates are hard for me to bet in that 5-10K range.
Unless they are pushed down or caught under a fighter cap, I don't see a lot of 109s and 190s low in my limited experience.
You obviously haven't run into any muppets or latrobe yet :lol :bolt:
-
Spitfire looks nice, the 109 looks like a fighter. :t
Too small and poor cockpit design = fighter? :p
-
Redbull, :O. Yes I have and it wasn't pretty. :)
LOL, I said easier, I did not say I could beat them. I do look forward to encountering good sticks like you and Latrobe. It makes for good training films for me albeit, they are always short. Someday though, I hope to give y'all a hard time of it. :)
-
I meant the bit about not finding low 109s :P
You're coming along great for how long you've been playing, better than me :)
-
Too small and poor cockpit design = fighter? :p
Oh, and a flying tree is suppose to be? :P
.... I love that flying tree though.
-
:huh :huh :huh Im Nekked!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener:
-
I meant the bit about not finding low 109s :P
You're coming along great for how long you've been playing, better than me :)
I appreciate that. :aok
-
Oh, and a flying tree is suppose to be? :P
.... I love that flying tree though.
Well, the trees in AH had such a high K/D ratio I figured a flying one would be a sure winner.... :p
-
I like the Spitfire, it's a cute toy, but the 109 is a fighting machine.
Makes me think of "get me a squadron of Spitfires"
I'm picturing Goering being told his fighters were just slaughtered by toys and then being told "I want a toy too."
Spitfire looks nice, the 109 looks like a fighter. :t
Must be where the expression "if looks could kill" came from .
-
1. I'd wager that any decline in numbers in 2009/2010 is due to horrible world economy thoroughly kicking in about then. For example:
(http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-emp.gif?hl=ad&t=1359737102)
2. Pies are awesome. I had one last Thursday at the pub (along with chips and a delicious Strongbow cider) and thought of Zack.
3. The most pie-like aircraft should be the Hurricane (as there were more of them in Battle of Britain).
-
Muzik,
what did you want to prove with that? The Spitfire is a better plane than the 109? Of course, you are right, its one of the very best aircrafts. Ergo is it ridiculously easy to fly? How the bloody hell not?
My/our point is: what is more of fighting, turning spits with 109 or vice versa? Let them decide :) Also, an experienced pilot flying the easyest easy mode plane and talking big is something weird, dont you think so?
-
"Yes, Spitfires are easy mode. They were easy mode in WWII as well, and that is a good thing, contrary to popular opinion here."
Spitfires may be easy mode in a game but I'm not at all sure if they were very easy mode IRL, especially in battle, while it was more forgiving to rookies than the 109.
Lets list a few factors overlooked in games:
1. Floppy wings/ailerons -caused the outboard guns to fire here and there in turns or under load, aileron reversal in dives, poor aileron response along with poor contoller design. While clipping the wingtips may have improved the roll rate later on it could not overcome the effects of flexy wing causing slow aileron response. This is also why the wing was made more rigid later during development.
2. Poor ergonomics -complicated engine controls in form on manual mixture and supercharger controls, upright sitting position affecting G tolerance of the pilot in hard maneuvers, poor rear view, poor controller harmony causing heavy ailerons, sensitive elevator, poor rudder authority (rudder was enlarged constantly as the engines improved)
3. Narrow landing gear, while the landing was easier than that of e.g. 109 the landing gear was too narrow and along with soft shock absorbing ground looping was not uncommon while not as fatal as that of 109. Softness made it more manageable, though.
4. Sudden stall which could easily develop into a flat stall. This was partially remedied by adding the load in elevator control, but still the stall was vicious if the warnings were ignored.
These are shortcomings not modeled in games which would affect its usability in combat. Some could be easily added but not all.
-C+
-
nice observations charge however point 4,
All marks of Spit can go into the dreaded flat spin when pushed to the very limit with the flap down. More common in the Spit 1 / 5 and 9.
We jokingly referred to this stall as "you've krupped it" because he would manage to do it very frequently until he spent enough time learning the plane to prevent himself from doing it.
So here was a K4 experten trying to perform on the edge in a Spit and failing horribly until he got the knack of knowing when the tail was stepping out. So one can argue that any 109 being nose heavy in the stall gives those pilots a much easier time of it when performing rolling scissors. With no chance of losing complete control.
The difference between flying a plane "ok" and pushing it to the very limits of it's capabilities are two very different things. I'll do that in whatever ride I choose from the hangar and fly it to it's strengths. Not make bad choices in the MA environment and then resort to the keyboard after i'm back in the tower.
-
Nonsense, Bruv.
Honestly, the D11 jug stalls even better than the 109s. Steady, predictable - see Lepape. So folowing your logic, D11 is easy mode, Spit9 is amazingly difficult.
You in D11, me in spit9, lets see how many you can win from 100... :lol
(not if i could win one in the jug...)
-
The Great Arena Split happened in 2006
but when was the time where there was one LW arena during the "day" and two during "night"?
within the last 2 years? I think.
-
We jokingly referred to this stall as "you've krupped it" because he would manage to do it very frequently until he spent enough time learning the plane to prevent himself from doing it.
So here was a K4 experten trying to perform on the edge in a Spit and failing horribly until he got the knack of knowing when the tail was stepping out. So one can argue that any 109 being nose heavy in the stall gives those pilots a much easier time of it when performing rolling scissors. With no chance of losing complete control.
krupped it, I like that.
Seems like that sideways nose stall cobrinski stuff is all prevalent these days. From all the people I've fought since I returned I appreciate Bruv's ACM. Doesn't resort to moves like that to make up for lack of ACM prowess.
Since I returned I have been pretty much blown away at the capabilities of the 109 FM specifically the K4 compared to when I left in 2005. It can do such crazy out of flight envelop stuff without any noticeable side effects, including that cobra maneuver when it lets you drop your speed to 0 MPH and then auto corrects you out of it and bounces speed back up to normal instantly. I don't see any other plane that can do that so well and instantly (the P47 and F4U might approach it, but the vertical abilities of the K4 set it apart especially being able to regain the vertical in scissors), the Spit will just go into a spin if you take it that low with that cobra maneuver.
For what its worth I have flown 109s and 190s in AH since the game started. I have every desire to see the performance of these planes reaching X Wing vs TIE Fighter levels but the things the current FM allows now without any disadvantage is just cray cray.
Combined with its current FM and the 30mm, you have a plane that is nearly untouchable and after a few iterations can handle most things in a knife fight. I rather miss when the G10/K4 were less accessible to people.
-
Nonsense, Bruv.
Honestly, the D11 jug stalls even better than the 109s. Steady, predictable - see Lepape. So folowing your logic, D11 is easy mode, Spit9 is amazingly difficult.
You in D11, me in spit9, lets see how many you can win from 100... :lol
(not if i could win one in the jug...)
Even if that's true, the D11 still doesn't enjoy all the other advantages of the K4: Speed, lethality, acceleration, roll rate, and half size smaller target.
-
Even if that's true, the D11 still doesn't enjoy all the other advantages of the K4: Speed, lethality, acceleration, roll rate, and half size smaller target.
True, it was an extreme example. Still:
-109 =/= K4, just the same way as Spit =/= 16
-the jug isnt lethal? Man, through theese two years, i could never hit anything with the tater what was 500+ out... maybe my aim is horrible, but imo the jug is much better at distance.
-the only way the 109 can roll is a snaproll. Otherwise its pretty much lower-medicore through its speed range, not to talk about the 430mph compression.
Stating that the 109 is easyer than the spit is pure nonsense. Honestly, the spit8/9/16 does the hammerhead/tailwip reversal much easyer than the 109. The only spit being poor at the stall is the spit1.
True, its only based on my feelings, and im not fammiliar with either of them. But when i was flying a 109 after the 190, i have the same "easy mode engaged, i can beat anyone" feeling than when i upped a spit after a 109.
-
True, it was an extreme example. Still:
-109 =/= K4, just the same way as Spit =/= 16
-the jug isnt lethal? Man, through theese two years, i could never hit anything with the tater what was 500+ out... maybe my aim is horrible, but imo the jug is much better at distance.
-the only way the 109 can roll is a snaproll. Otherwise its pretty much lower-medicore through its speed range, not to talk about the 430mph compression.
Stating that the 109 is easyer than the spit is pure nonsense. Honestly, the spit8/9/16 does the hammerhead/tailwip reversal much easyer than the 109. The only spit being poor at the stall is the spit1.
True, its only based on my feelings, and im not fammiliar with either of them. But when i was flying a 109 after the 190, i have the same "easy mode engaged, i can beat anyone" feeling than when i upped a spit after a 109.
Don't get me wrong there is quite a difference between the K4 and the other series 109s. I tried to emphasize the K4 in my post.
Lethality I was referring to relatively close shots, snapshots where the out of flight envelope maneuverability of the K4 would be paramount. The 30mm here is just devastating, and if you set your P47s convergence for sniping, then your close in lethality is sacrificed. The nose mounted cannon really is a genius placement, and while not as often as I like, I have hit some far out shots with it. I set my convergence out to 650, and it gives the round a little more of an arc, which benefits me in a few ways.
I am not really saying the K4 is inherently easier than a Spit, but it is very much more capable especially in the right hands. Certainly a new pilot will be turned away by the difficulty in first aiming with the 30mm, will be mystified at the subtleties of a snap roll, and not understand flap usage, but with a little practice worlds can open up. I have tangled with some of the better pilots in the game, me in a K4 they in turny planes (spit, ki84) and continually impressed with the K4s ability to hang and turn the tables. Add to that the ability to disengage from any of these planes at will. It was actually always sort of like that, even back with the old 109G10 (the predecessor to the K4 in AH) but the change in flap effect and airflow has allowed the plane to do more wonky stuff around the yaw axis for some reason.
There's a reason why you see most of the tailslides/cobra/whatever films come from K4 drivers: because it's infinitely easier to do and forgiving in the 109K4. The spit is very unstable in this regard.
-
There is a Spitfire that can compete with the Bf109K-4, but due to its perk price and short range it is rarely seen and even more rarely mastered.
Free the Spitfire Mk XIV!!! :rock
-
I love the spit14 but i hope we can agree it is one of the most unstable aircraft at low speeds in AH and IMO inferior to the K4.
-
I love the spit14 but i hope we can agree it is one of the most unstable aircraft at low speeds in AH and IMO inferior to the K4.
Yes
-
I love the spit14 but i hope we can agree it is one of the most unstable aircraft at low speeds in AH and IMO inferior to the K4.
Absolutely.
-
Nonsense, Bruv.
Honestly, the D11 jug stalls even better than the 109s. Steady, predictable - see Lepape. So folowing your logic, D11 is easy mode, Spit9 is amazingly difficult.
You in D11, me in spit9, lets see how many you can win from 100... :lol
(not if i could win one in the jug...)
where have I said the Spits are not easy mode?
All i'm saying is that every plane can be deemed easy if one takes the time to master it. If you fight the d11 's fight in lets say a 190D or several different 109's (low and slow) it will be more than a match for them. Stop comparing apples to oranges and move on from the hate. :aok
and yes the spit 14 needs looking at!!
-
I have never stated that the 109 isnt forgiving... yes, it is! But an other thing, it turns around in 19 seconds, on a 550 yards circle, while the spit8 does it in 15.5 seconds, on a 430 yards circle...
The K4 is very capable, yet very hard to fly really well - to take advantage of its great post-stall abilities. I have only seen a very few, maybe a dozen pilots flying this plane to its full potential. In the other hand, some folks just use the raw speed and climb rate: the K4 turns into an easy mode pick-n-run beast, only limited by the compression. I dont like that kind of flying.
Back in the day, when i was flying G6s, and was trying to learn the proper usage of the post-stall moves, a very decent pilot called me to the DA and was choosing Spit16s. I have never been flying that aircraft before that and was amazed, how ridiculously easily it went nose-up, did the tailslide-hammerhead and went nose-up again. True, that aircraft wont tolerate the rapage on the controls like a G6, but surely felt much easyer to fly. The spit8/9 with their longer wings were a bit different though, but those moves werent impossible, after 2-3 tries, i could pull them just the same as in the 109. Again, they wont tolerate the very extreme control inputs like the 109, but arent nearly as horrible as Bruv is trying to tell.
For the spit14: its very close to the K4, but a bit slower, a bit better climber, turns clearly better but on a larger radius, and now, this spit is really unstable.
For Bruv: is that the D9's flight what you demonstrated in the TOC/koth? Nope, good sir, i refuse that kind of flying. There are enough from those ponies, 190s, lalas, 109s, mjugs, even a couple spits too out there, no need for one more 190 flying that way.
Give me a valid reason to stop hating, please, and i will do it instantly and happily.
-
I love the spit14 but i hope we can agree it is one of the most unstable aircraft at low speeds in AH and IMO inferior to the K4.
Yet the Spit XIV is perked and the Bf109K-4, with twice the WEP, is not only free but not very low ENYed either.
It is odd though, Capt. Eric Brown found the Spitfire Mk XIV to be one of the three best piston engined air superiority fighters of the war, the other two being the Fw190D-9 and F4U-4.
-
Yet the Spit XIV is perked and the Bf109K-4, with twice the WEP, is not only free but not very low ENYed either.
It is odd though, Capt. Eric Brown found the Spitfire Mk XIV to be one of the three best piston engined air superiority fighters of the war, the other two being the Fw190D-9 and F4U-4.
Yes it is. The Spit XIV FM befuddles me
-
but when was the time where there was one LW arena during the "day" and two during "night"?
Between Nov 10 and June 11, well after the drop in numbers happened. Both events, The Great Arena Split as well as going back to single LW in two steps, had no apparent impact on fighter usage. But for discussion about this and similar topics, let's take it to the upcoming stats thread I'm going to create in a few minutes.
-
Yet the Spit XIV is perked and the Bf109K-4, with twice the WEP, is not only free but not very low ENYed either.
It is odd though, Capt. Eric Brown found the Spitfire Mk XIV to be one of the three best piston engined air superiority fighters of the war, the other two being the Fw190D-9 and F4U-4.
Being a Split time Spit/Luftwaffe guy (with the occasional Grumman thrown in) I flew a Spit XIV in a scenario a year or so ago. Even though I fly Spits a lot I only take the XIV on rare occasions.
What opened my eyes during the scenario is that at the speeds that K-4's and Dora's fly the XIV can't stay with them in a turn, particularly if the fight got low. You can't roll into the turn as fast and lose ground every time. Rudder doesn't help. It took until the last frame of the scenario before I learned I had to chop throttle during any manouvers just to have a chance but in doing so I took the chance that the opponent would extend safely and then I didn't have the speed to catch up at low alt.
I was also surprised at how well the 109's fared at high alts. While I had the advantage in the vertical that was my only advantage. We only had three pilots in our squad at our peak in that scenario and while I was able to use the vert to stay alive alone against, at one time, six or more K-4's it was not an easy task.
Even if the perk were removed from the Spit XIV the 109K-4 is all around a far better plane.
-
For Bruv: is that the D9's flight what you demonstrated in the TOC/koth? Nope, good sir, i refuse that kind of flying. There are enough from those ponies, 190s, lalas, 109s, mjugs, even a couple spits too out there, no need for one more 190 flying that way.
Give me a valid reason to stop hating, please, and i will do it instantly and happily.
You discoed as a wabbit, upped after everyone had extended away, of course I had altitude and E. KOTH rule #1 all wabbits must die in any which way possible.
It even made it more difficult for me to kill you at the time because the 190 is difficult to pull enough lead with excess speed. You did your best to wriggle free and I got lucky that you too missed after I had killed most of my E to attack you properly. Of course you forget that and think I wasn't trying to fight. Not my fault you discoed, not my fault you were a wabbit and had to be killed. :aok
-
You act like there was only one case. There was? There wasnt even one? This debbypoo is a liar?
You act like you were trying to fight. Were you? For the first sight of danger, pull up, aye...
You act like an endless rope-a-dope would be a fight (january frikoth... lasted like 5 mins... congrats, really...)
You act like it would be that amazingly hard to BnZ a newb on the deck.
You... you have no class, good sir.
Yet you ask me not to hate you from my guts. Fine. So you throw some more crap on me and except me to clap my hands for your awesomeness, you great champion, you? Never.
Thanks you for the valid reason to stop hating you. It will happen. Or not.
-
woah dude! where did that come from?
Anyways, unperk the spit 14 :)
-
^^^ what he said.. :D
Sarcasm, I get it! :devil
(since when has the AoM had the bawls to fly the 190, consistently? :noid)
I blame Midway and the whole anti Spitfire crowd.
They are just jealous that the Spitfire's awesomeness will always make them look fat and Ugly in their B38's and emo Luft rides. As an in built defensive mechanism they cry easy mode soon as someone with a better appreciation of the Flight Model and ACM comes along and woops them in anything they choose from the hangar.
I will fly more Spitfire sorties as a result of this alarming news. :old:
Of cource, you would blame the biggest dweeb in a spit and those of us who call out ALL THE DWEEBS in spits, first and foremost. :devil :rofl
Denial, it's more than just a river in N. Africa Bruv.
-
no one has mentioned and to me it is the one thing that separates the spits from all the others and what makes it so easy mode(for EVERYONE)
its responsiveness is far and above every other fighter, this is what makes it so easy mode.
I agree all planes are easy mode for the one who studies that plane, but it still comes down to each wannabe pilots ability....the spit 8 is far beyond say a P40, but a master in a P40 will most likely kill a mediocre stick in the spit....doesn't make the P40 easy mode.
-
Muzik,
what did you want to prove with that? The Spitfire is a better plane than the 109? Of course, you are right, its one of the very best aircrafts. Ergo is it ridiculously easy to fly? How the bloody hell not?
My/our point is: what is more of fighting, turning spits with 109 or vice versa? Let them decide :) Also, an experienced pilot flying the easyest easy mode plane and talking big is something weird, dont you think so?
I don't remember who they were to, but my response was not personal Debrody. I guess if I was to plan it out, it would be to prove all of these aircraft bashing arguments are acts of insane futility.
Case in point, the runstang chronicles.
Of course the spit is easy mode. We all know it, so what's the point in repeating it again and/or trying to smear that fact in others faces? And yes, I would agree with your comments literal meaning, an experienced pilot flying the easy mode a/c and smack talking when he kills someone (other than the same a/c in a duel) is "weird." I would use the word "lame" or "pathetic."
I don't agree with your comments subtext, "flying a 109 makes me more manly than you" argument. Which seems to be the basis of 90% of these discussions. I will grant that the 109 is a harder plane to fly, learn, and get good in. Props to those of you who do. But if you don't dominate in EVERY aircraft, and I mean every single one, then the fact that you are the best in the hardest to learn means little to nothing. It just means you were more dedicated to learning that one and that it was your choice to do so. I would wager that if anyone in this game was as attracted to the 109 as much as you, they would be just as good they are capable of being in the aircraft they left behind.
None of the aircraft in this game reign supreme.
Personally, for the most part I have always chosen my favorite aircraft for more petty and childish reasons, "that plane looks FRIKKEN SWEET DUDE." Anyone who says the German designers make better looking aircraft than anyone else is absolutely insane. Like some twit looking at a completely meaningless painting of scribles and paint splatters and says, "this painting represents the deep societal and political strife that the underprivelaged of inner city New York...buttfingeringcontinues ."
-
Seems like that sideways nose stall cobrinski stuff is all prevalent these days. From all the people I've fought since I returned I appreciate Bruv's ACM. Doesn't resort to moves like that to make up for lack of ACM prowess.
Since I returned I have been pretty much blown away at the capabilities of the 109 FM specifically the K4 compared to when I left in 2005. It can do such crazy out of flight envelop stuff without any noticeable side effects, including that cobra maneuver when it lets you drop your speed to 0 MPH and then auto corrects you out of it and bounces speed back up to normal instantly. I don't see any other plane that can do that so well and instantly (the P47 and F4U might approach it, but the vertical abilities of the K4 set it apart especially being able to regain the vertical in scissors), the Spit will just go into a spin if you take it that low with that cobra maneuver.
For what its worth I have flown 109s and 190s in AH since the game started. I have every desire to see the performance of these planes reaching X Wing vs TIE Fighter levels but the things the current FM allows now without any disadvantage is just cray cray.
Combined with its current FM and the 30mm, you have a plane that is nearly untouchable and after a few iterations can handle most things in a knife fight. I rather miss when the G10/K4 were less accessible to people.
I agree. I used to get into stall fights against K4's with a fairly good measure of success. Now I have a hell of a time against them. I've noticed the A5 seems more lethal too. I just figured I was getting worse...
-
The FIGHTER USAGE (kill+deaths) share of all 109's and 190's (including Ta 152H) compared to the P-51D alone. Keep in mind the current tour is only halfway through.
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/184/109190quickusage.jpg)
please distinguish 190s and 109s:
190 Dora is a runner/picker e-superiority fighter and in my opinion those pilots may as well fly a 51 or a 47M. However, the 190 A, while not as dominating, is an excellent dog-fighter and any 51 pilot who decides to step 'down' to a mid-war plane is only an improvement. This principle remains the same for the 109 - the K4 is mighty, and to be frank, easy if flown in a high e, low risk fashion. Taters are tricky, but it can be mastered to a degree. But again look at the 109 G2 or F4, both brilliant planes and more truly 109 as we see them in AH.
It is nice to see people throw away the weird meta 'country' game (strategic interests and zerging/hording/pushing for a 'win') and get into a mindset to dogfight. . .and I for one enjoy those moments win or lose.
-
I hate German planes because theyre hard to fly.
The END.
-
This principle remains the same for the 109 - the K4 is mighty, and to be frank, easy if flown in a high e, low risk fashion. Taters are tricky, but it can be mastered to a degree. But again look at the 109 G2 or F4, both brilliant planes and more truly 109 as we see them in AH.
Real men fly G6s.
Just saying.
- oldman (with a <S> to Pasha)
-
Sarcasm, I get it! :devil
(since when has the AoM had the bawls to fly the 190, consistently? :noid)
umm.. i think I had more kills in the 190a5 in 2012 than anyone in the game.. prolly pretty close now too I would guess. I dunno if that equals your definition of consistent or not..
edit: actually maybe it was 2011... I may not have flown that much in 2012.. im getting old.. :cry
-
There was that one tour where Moot and Grizz had 50% of all 152 kills. And I had 15% of all k4 kills. :lol
-
Fester got #1 rank flying the a8 pretty much exclusively I believe..
edit: and Irish ONLY flys the 190...
-
I don't agree with your comments subtext, "flying a 109 makes me more manly than you" argument. Which seems to be the basis of 90% of these discussions. I will grant that the 109 is a harder plane to fly, learn, and get good in. Props to those of you who do. But if you don't dominate in EVERY aircraft, and I mean every single one, then the fact that you are the best in the hardest to learn means little to nothing. It just means you were more dedicated to learning that one and that it was your choice to do so. I would wager that if anyone in this game was as attracted to the 109 as much as you, they would be just as good they are capable of being in the aircraft they left behind.
None of the aircraft in this game reign supreme.
well said muzik,
Debrody and I seem to have irreversible opinions of one another, the language barrier doesn't help but he seems to know enough to insult. Maybe it was Midway's trolling abilities that got under his skin or the hundreds of times I've killed him in an un-acceptable manner to his tastes.
We just need to have another one of those long dueling sessions. The last "friendly" one got taken out of context due to him arguing with midway which has nothing to do with me. The fact that I out flew him in his precious 109G6 after spending little to no time in it must have cut deep. The fact that he performed much better against me in the KI-84 and Spitfires suggests that they are indeed easier to fly? So why then lose so badly in your own experten ride??? I guess this is my point that ACM knows no boundaries. Stick time, practice and an appreciation of as many different planes will produce a more rounded pilot and not a one trick pony.
I thought we were past all of this hate but obviously not. :(
-
If insulting means the truth being said into your eyes, and if that hurts you that much, then yes, i know how to, and will "insult" you.
I was "only" flying the 109. Never stated that i am an expert or i could ever get used to it. The only aircraft i think i can fly well is the 190D9.
That named duel happened almost a year ago. I became someone else since that.
In the c2 fights, one plane i have really never ever upped before. You lost the scissors twice. Not surprised you were afraid of me in the only ride i can fly.
I cannot match your sense of timing to arrive just in the perfect moment.
-
after reviewing the film of the C2 (a plane I too have no experience in) I concluded that I was overly aggressive bleeding too much E and you kept it safe and much smoother. Something your very proud of NOT doing in usual circumstances.
So do I call you all the names under the sun because I lost a fair fight? No. ;)
The 190D is hardly a plane to dogfight in, it's strengths are raw power, roll rate and climb. When someone like Pervert maximises every inch of those positive qualities he is categorised by you as some sort of "weaker" person. The art of Dogfighting is to get on your opponents six or kill them with as little risk to your own aircraft as possible. Maybe I'm wrong because this is a computer game after all.
Fly Spitfires, Fly Luft, do whatever makes you happy but don't act like a whiny little crybaby in the presence of adults or you'll be treated as such.
-
I dont know, i dont have the films.
Now compare the c2 and the 190 fights. Betcha you will get to the conclusion that you came down and i was BnZing you. What ever.
-
I dont know, i dont have the films.
Now compare the c2 and the 190 fights. Betcha you will get to the conclusion that you came down and i was BnZing you. What ever.
I've already said the 190 fight was unfair, but you discoed and were a wabbit. Fuzeman should have closed the runway if it was going to cause you distress.
-
I am not talking about "the" 190 fight.
There was an other in the frikoth when Mr Moron dragged me down to the deck. Just killed him, barely could see SQUAT swinging in, but just in time to reverse and kill him. Then you came at 4k, and were BnZing me for a good 4 minutes. Guessing that was the fight when "you almost lost the energy trying to give me a fight" but still had just enough to get ~450 above me in the rope when you got reversed.
The third round in the january frikoth.
After that, you choosed the G6, and expected me to be pleased, even though you exactly know its my plane of suckage - as you just stated above. No, thank, you.
And after that, youre talking about how smooth i was in the c2 fights ergo what a hypocrite i am? Seriously?
I have nothing left to say.
Only this:
"Post the films please. All of them.
The Dora film from the TOC.
The C205 film from the TOC.
The C202 film from the frikoth.
And the Dora film from the frikoth too."
-
What y'all should do is spend a week in a P39Q to cleanse your pallet sort of speak then try the other guys plane for a week. :)
-
I don't remember who they were to, but my response was not personal Debrody. I guess if I was to plan it out, it would be to prove all of these aircraft bashing arguments are acts of insane futility.
Case in point, the runstang chronicles.
Of course the spit is easy mode. We all know it, so what's the point in repeating it again and/or trying to smear that fact in others faces? And yes, I would agree with your comments literal meaning, an experienced pilot flying the easy mode a/c and smack talking when he kills someone (other than the same a/c in a duel) is "weird." I would use the word "lame" or "pathetic."
I don't agree with your comments subtext, "flying a 109 makes me more manly than you" argument. Which seems to be the basis of 90% of these discussions. I will grant that the 109 is a harder plane to fly, learn, and get good in. reign supreme.
Spits are for kids, Brits, and newbs. German iron and P38s are what men fly. Little girls fly ponies. P39s are for self masochists.
-
Spits are for kids, Brits, and newbs. German iron and P38s are what men fly. Little girls fly ponies. P39s are for self masochists.
:rofl
-
here ya go deb, it is the whole film because I think some other fights display whatever point i'm trying to prove.
http://thefewsquadron.co.uk/films/film17.ahf
also the first fight in KI-84's what happened on the way down there? I know you said you were drunk but the 190D fight lasted about 90 seconds and not 4 minutes. Within those 90 seconds I made 3 guns passes. I think the typical 190 driver would take 5 minutes to finish extending.
The subtext of the KOTH was Manawar being his usual tool self and I was in there to kill him. I'm not sure whether this harsh lesson had any impact on him.
-
Lets play nice here people.
-
Lets play nice here people.
What are the chances? :old:
-
Lets play nice here people.
Dont stop them, I am enjoying this :P
<goes back to the sofa and grabs the popcorn>
-
Spits are for kids, Brits, and newbs. German iron and P38s are what men fly. Little girls fly ponies. P39s are for self masochists.
Ohhhh boyyyyeeeee!!! (Madly clapping hands)
-
Can somebody bring the cream for this rash? :old:
-
True, only 2 mins, not 4. My sense of time have forsaken me.
I was moderately drunk, but not as much to auger a ki84. I just knew what is next and didnt want to see you getting an other rope a dope kill as usual.
Way to go, champion of fair fighting.
-
so hold up a sec you engage with 45mph more speed level and then purposely kamikaze the ground rather than try to cutback and reverse?
How is that not "weak" as you would describe it? :P
-
So... How about them Yankees?
-
So... How about them Yankees?
Grumman Yankees are pretty good planes but the early models have a vertical fin that's too small and may not recover from a spin.
-
Multi post... My bad
-
Multi post... My bad
-
Multi post... My bad
-
What are the chances? :old:
Very slim :)
-
What are the chances? :old:
Very slim :)
-
Wait, wasnt it you stating before that i was playing the energy game against you too? That 45 was closer to the 25 though...
Btw, i admit that i suck. I did a huge mistake of chopping the throttle and trying to give you a scissors fight instead of what you gave to me. What a fatal mistake, again. Im insane.
But why to reverse if you would only rope a dope me for ever like you did every single time before and after that?
-
Ohhhh boyyyyeeeee!!! (Madly clapping hands)
here use this :rolleyes:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/bbsmuppet_zpsd8676d64.gif)
-
Ohhhh boyyyyeeeee!!! (Madly clapping hands)
Here,use this
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/bbsmuppet_zpsd8676d64.gif)
-
Ohhhh boyyyyeeeee!!! (Madly clapping hands)
Here,try this
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/bbsmuppet_zpsd8676d64.gif)
-
Here,try this
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/bbsmuppet_zpsd8676d64.gif)
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/photo_zps4535e7dd.jpg)
-
umm.. i think I had more kills in the 190a5 in 2012 than anyone in the game.. prolly pretty close now too I would guess. I dunno if that equals your definition of consistent or not..
edit: actually maybe it was 2011... I may not have flown that much in 2012.. im getting old.. :cry
I was thinking more of current times, b/c my memory isn't that good either.
-
There was that one tour where Moot and Grizz had 50% of all 152 kills. And I had 15% of all k4 kills. :lol
Wasn't that in '09 or '10? Man, times change... Just a few weeks ago I was picking you in a spixteen with my 190.
Lets play nice here people.
...who let you out of your cage?
-
if u fly 109 or 190 u got much bigger peepee than ppl who fly spitfire or american plane :old:
Debrody peepee so big it cut off blood supply to his brain and damage it badly :( this why he is so angry and quit game forever every 2 weeks and have many mood swing etc
gg
-
Wasn't that in '09 or '10? Man, times change... Just a few weeks ago I was picking you in a spixteen with my 190.
What changed? I flew other planes then. Upped vultched fields, and got gangpicked just as much. Having that many kills doesn't mean I have to fly like a little girl or have a good k/d on paper.
Work prevents me from maintaining a certain personal par. It takes months to get back to where I was, but I can still swat you like a gnat when I need to. :t
http://rapidshare.com/files/2191032856/babalon.ahf
-
This gets argued to death many times imho. The plane doesn't make the pilot, althought plane selection often reflects what the pilot is made (capable) of.
IE: In regards to spits, most I never find flying in to a field solo to stake a CAP and engage any enemy who wanders up or in to them. I typicaly, more often than not, will find a half-dozen in a 12-18 enemy furball, HOing at every opportunity, and ganging up in numbers against single cons.
-
It's interesting going into Furball lake. The spit14 is the most prevalent spit in there because they equate its perk price in the MA to mean it's the best. In fact it's almost exclusively a perk plane area.
-
here use this :rolleyes:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/bbsmuppet_zpsd8676d64.gif)
:rofl Priceless!!!!
NO I MEAN really priceless. You're gonna get rich off that stuff around here.
-
Spits are for kids, Brits, and newbs. German iron and P38s are what men fly. Little girls fly ponies. P39s are for self masochists.
Typhoons are a mans plane on don't smell of big fat sausage and leather shorts :old:
They are a very good plane if you are old and have the reflexes of a snail :old:
I am awesome in the Typhoon :rofl
-
Typhoon is a woman's plane, ask Betty.
-
I am a women on the 1st Tuesday of the Month :rofl
Grizz smells of beans and pie :rofl
-
In the scenario "Enemy Coast Ahead" (1943 English Channel warfare), the fighter-plane set was Spit V's, Spit 9's, and Typhoons vs. FW 190A-5's and Bf 109G-6 and G-2.
I flew 190A-5's in that one, and in that mix of planes and in that many-on-many environment, the FW 190A-5 was a marvelous plane. In our 190's, the plane we were concerned about the most were not the Spitfires but the Typhoon. We could generally engage and disengage from the Spits as we chose, but that was not the case with the Typhoon.
In that environment, a more-realistic setup, things that made the 190 a great plane in real life made it great there: roll rate and crisp handling to switch targets quickly or evade quickly; excellent speed among that plane set to allow engaging or disengaging on your terms; excellent firepower, so that even a snapshot could take out an enemy; and sturdiness so that you could take some hits and generally still survive. The Typhoon had many of those characteristics, just not the roll and crisp handling, but it balanced that by more speed and a slightly better set of guns.
-
By the way, the above is not to say that the Spitfire was poor -- it is still a great plane, and there were folks like Bruv who racked up the kills in Spits (although I think that Bruv would rack up the kills in just about anything). It's just that we felt that the 190 was superior in that environment, and we 190 pilots worried more about Typhoons than Spitfires.
That was a surprise to me. Going into that scenario, I expected the Spitfires to be the best plane in the mix.
-
By the way, the above is not to say that the Spitfire was poor -- it is still a great plane, and there were folks like Bruv who racked up the kills in Spits (although I think that Bruv would rack up the kills in just about anything). It's just that we felt that the 190 was superior in that environment, and we 190 pilots worried more about Typhoons than Spitfires.
That was a surprise to me. Going into that scenario, I expected the Spitfires to be the best plane in the mix.
That's what I love about the scenarios. In the MA, certain planes do better due to the way gameplay flows in the MAs. In scenarios, with squads working together against one another, I find the gameplay you get is quite different, and different aircraft and tactics do better in that situation than in MA gameplay. Speed often becomes far more important than dogfighting ability.
Your example here is a perfect one.
Wiley.
-
Brooke's comments are fantastic :old:
He is the most knowledgable person in this thread :old:
-
Hi zack :)
-
Hi redbull :)
Your awesome :banana:
-
Typhoon is a woman's plane, ask Betty.
who had my plane out of the hanger? i never gave anyone permission to fly it while i was gone!!! :furious and yes...it is a womans plane! only real women can handle this plane the correct way!!! :)
-
Back when I was young I used to think 109's and 190's were cool to... then I flew the hog-1....
:noid
-
Back when I was young I used to think 109's and 190's were cool to... then I flew the hog-1....
EZ mode hero :neener:
:cheers:
who had my plane out of the hanger? i never gave anyone permission to fly it while i was gone!!! :furious and yes...it is a womans plane! only real women can handle this plane the correct way!!! :)
Zack owned :ahand
-
For 9 years I flew German Iron (excluding C47s and the occasional Dweeb week), I have earned the right to fly the schoolgirl planes for now.
-
For 9 years I flew German Iron (excluding C47s and the occasional Dweeb week), I have earned the right to fly the schoolgirl planes for now.
What's up 42! long time no see you around... how's going bud?
-
These schoolgirls like 190's and 109's best.
(http://blogs.theage.com.au/entertainment/Beerbreasts3.jpg)
-
Been away for awhile, but getting back into the swing of things slowly but surely. Not much has really changed.
-
:O
from the picture, I am pretty sure those are 38s. :salute
These schoolgirls like 190's and 109's best.
(http://blogs.theage.com.au/entertainment/Beerbreasts3.jpg)
-
Fly the 109's and 190's a bit. This should at least give you some ideas as to how best to kill them.
:salute
This
The same goes for the rest of the planes
-
:O
from the picture, I am pretty sure those are 38s. :salute
Negative. These are and Okla Homa is actually two words.
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/OklaHoma.jpg)
-
Negative. These are and Okla Homa is actually two words.
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/OklaHoma.jpg)
No I'm thinking those fall in the P-47 JUG category :D
-
No I'm thinking those fall in the P-47 JUG category :D
Ok. IN
-
Getting ready to be yet one more 109 up in the air again as well.
-
Getting ready to be yet one more 109 up in the air again as well.
Like far out man! :cool:
-
These schoolgirls like 190's and 109's best.
(http://blogs.theage.com.au/entertainment/Beerbreasts3.jpg)
I like the one with the beer............
-
flying a 190D or a K4 is for girls.
A5/F4 - if you really think you got it, lets see it in the proper form imo.
-
Real men, with hairy palms fly the A8 ! :rock
-
When I started this game the skies were filled with Yaks. Then it seemed like Spits were the plane. Being a noob, I thought it was some un writen thing. I don't understand it, I just good with the flow. :bhead
-
flying a 190D or a K4 is for girls.
A5/F4 - if you really think you got it, lets see it in the proper form imo.
I used to fly that F4 some before my layoff, it's a really good little plane. Flies beautifully in fact. It's just so slow that it takes forever to get anywhere.
And I fell in love with taters...
What can I say, I'm a tater dweeb.
-
Real men, with hairy palms fly the A8 ! :rock
does their hair grown on the inside or back side of the hand?
-
Getting ready to be yet one more 109 up in the air again as well.
good to have you back Madda <S>
-
good to have you back Madda <S>
Thanks man, good to be back!
Just ignore me stinking up the skies for a few months until I get some aim and some SA back. Until then, I'll be the K4 (usually) stalling and wallowing around the sky waiting to get shot by anyone available.