Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Arlo on June 03, 2013, 06:13:34 PM
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(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_zpsd64960a4.png)
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and i thought i had too much time on my hands some days... :rofl
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Sometimes on slow days I make recruiting posters for the squad:
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Under_a_Jolly_Roger_zpsca8eff91.png)
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if all of you look like that i'd join...but i fear this is what's actually on the other side of my monitor
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/405468/AH%20Stuff/retarded.jpg)
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Oh no, sir. We look more like this guy .....
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Corsair4me.jpg)
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Hey Arlo, I didn't see the P-61! I'm guess you accidentally forgot it! :bolt:
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Hey Arlo, I didn't see the P-61! :bolt:
It's hard to see it, being painted black and only out of it's hangar at night. ;)
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It would look like some stuff that ought to be added was added, some stuff that ought to be added was not added and some stuff that ought not be added was added.
Seriously, the P.108 would be a very bad addition. It was extremely low production, not particularly effective and large with a lot of crew stations. This means, in AH terms, that it isn't useful for scenarios, won't get much use in the MAs and would take a lot of work for HTC to add. That is a bad trifecta.
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It would look like some stuff that ought to be added was added, some stuff that ought to be added was not added and some stuff that ought not be added was added.
Seriously, the P.108 would be a very bad addition. It was extremely low production, not particularly effective and large with a lot of crew stations. This means, in AH terms, that it isn't useful for scenarios, won't get much use in the MAs and would take a lot of work for HTC to add. That is a bad trifecta.
If that's the only omission you'd make, I've not done bad. :)
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It was the only glaring one. We'd make different choices for sure, but that is entirely reasonable. Beaufighter really ought to be on your list. Wellington as well probably.
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There's still .....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoia-Marchetti_SM.82
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It was the only glaring one. We'd make different choices for sure, but that is entirely reasonable. Beaufighter really ought to be on your list. Wellington as well probably.
I've purposefully avoided both the U.S. and British sets, since they are somewhat robust (the German one is, as well, but I added the 190-3 alongside an axis transport).
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I've purposefully avoided both the U.S. and British sets, since they are somewhat robust (the German one is, as well, but I added the 190-3 alongside an axis transport).
and the French set?
France
Fighter
D-520 Fighter
Bloch MB-152 Interceptor Fighter
Ms-406 Fighter
Potez 630 Hvy Fighter
Breguet 693 Light Ground Attack
Bomber
Lioré-et-Olivier LeO 45 Med Bomber
Loire-Nieuport LN.401/LN.411 Navel Dive Bomber
Mb-210 Bomber
Amiot 354 Bomber/Recon
:O
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and the French set?
France
Fighter
D-520 Fighter
Bloch MB-152 Interceptor Fighter
Ms-406 Fighter
Potez 630 Hvy Fighter
Breguet 693 Light Ground Attack
Bomber
Lioré-et-Olivier LeO 45 Med Bomber
Loire-Nieuport LN.401/LN.411 Navel Dive Bomber
Mb-210 Bomber
Amiot 354 Hvy Bomber
:O
I dunno. Aces High needs a French WWII plane set kinda like it needs a Swiss one.
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I dunno. Aces High needs a French WWII plane set kinda like it needs a Swiss one.
Well you have done well with the Hole in your head..
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I would like to see these added too :)
DAP Beaufighter Mk 21 Heavy Fighter/Attack
CaC Ca-13 Boomerang Fighter/Jabo/Spotter Australia
Mavag Haja II Fighter Hungary
I.A.R. 80/81 Fighter Romania
Ikarus/Rogožarski IK-3 Fighter Yugoslavia
Avia B-135 Fighter Bulgaria
PZL.37B Med/Hvy Bomber
PZL.23B Karaś Attack/Light Bomber Poland
VL Myrsky Fighter Finland <their own plane>
Fokker G.I HvyFighter
Fokker T.V. Bomber
Fokker D.XXI Fighter Netherlands
More Country's the Better
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Well you have done well with the Hole in your head..
Aw, you got offended. I have five, actually. You should, too, but I can't speak for you. :)
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Aw, you got offended. I have five, actually. You should, too, but I can't speak for you. :)
I have you beat by far :neener: :rofl
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I would like to see these added too :)
DAP Beaufighter Mk 21 Heavy Fighter/Attack
CaC Ca-13 Boomerang Fighter/Jabo/Spotter Australia
Mavag Haja II Fighter Hungary
I.A.R. 80/81 Fighter Romania
Ikarus/Rogožarski IK-3 Fighter Yugoslavia
Avia B-135 Fighter Bulgaria
PZL.37B Med/Hvy Bomber
PZL.23B Karaś Attack/Light Bomber Poland
VL Myrsky Fighter Finland <their own plane>
Fokker G.I HvyFighter
Fokker T.V. Bomber
Fokker D.XXI Fighter Netherlands
More Country's the Better
Whoa. I'm sure you would.
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I have you beat by far :neener: :rofl
Well, I didn't count a pierced ear. But since I outgrew wearing ear jewelry ..... ;)
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Whoa. I'm sure you would.
Better than the biplane wiki :)
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Well, I didn't count a pierced ear. But since I outgrew wearing ear jewelry ..... ;)
hey now, i wear an earring. don' be dissin on the earrings...
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Well, I didn't count the pierced ears. But since I outgrew wearing ear jewelry ..... ;)
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Better than the biplane wiki :)
I dunno. I don't think either are good betting odds. I built the potential
ac list based on what I think could be most likely. :)
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Mavag Haja II Fighter Hungary
The Mávag Héja was an import version of the Re-2001 fitted with the hungarian copy of a Gnöme-Rhöne french radial - the same engine whats italian copy was used on the original Re-2001. Those planes looked and performed pretty much alike, im almost sure the hungarian skins could be used on the modelled "original" Re-2001.
It was a very slow aircraft with the top speed of ~509km/h. Was basically a poor, much outdated design in '42.
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I dunno. I don't think either are good betting odds. I built the potential
ac list based on what I think could be most likely. :)
France should absolutly be represented and I think Australia should aswell. 2 Planes can add 2 country's D520 and the Boomer ...Think about it ;) Common Arlo get behind it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/avapub/avatar_376.gif) and help get 2 country's in the game.
Fresh,
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France should absolutly be represented and I think Australia should aswell. 2 Planes can add 2 country's D520 and the Boomer ...Think about it ;) Common Arlo get behind it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/avapub/avatar_376.gif) and help get 2 country's in the game.
Fresh,
No offense (and there are some pretty neat French planes and all) but outside the Battle of France, those planes were captured and relegated to being trainers and auxiliary.
They had very little, if any, influence on the war. The Boomerang could be added under the British plane set, being commonwealth equipment. Finnish aircraft might be added
with the Winter War in mind. Hungarian, Romanian, Yugoslavian, Bulgarian, Polish and Dutch aircraft would be mere novelty.
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No offense (and there are some pretty neat French planes and all) but outside the Battle of France, those planes were captured and relegated to being trainers and auxiliary.
Those planes also saw combat outside of France in the Mideast with the Vichy French in North Africa and Syria/Palestine.
ack-ack
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Those planes also saw combat outside of France in the Mideast with the Vichy French in North Africa and Syria/Palestine.
ack-ack
My bad.
Operation Torch: the last battle for the Vichy French air force (8–10 November 1942)
The last major battles against the Allied forces, in which the Vichy French air force took part, took place during Operation Torch, launched on 8 November 1942 as the Allied invasion of North Africa. Facing the U.S. Navy task force headed for Morocco, consisting of the carriers Ranger, Sangamon, Santee and Suwannee, were, in part, Vichy squadrons based at Marrakech, Meknčs, Agadir, Casablanca and Rabat, which between them could muster some 86 fighters and 78 bombers. Overall, the aircraft may have been old compared to the F4F Wildcats of the U.S. Navy, yet they were still dangerous and capable in the hands of combat veterans who had seen action against both the Germans and the British since the start of the war.
F4Fs attacked the airfield at Rabat-Salé around 07.30 on the 8th and destroyed nine LeO 451 bombers of GB I/22, while a transport unit's full complement of various types was almost entirely wiped out. At Casablanca, SBD dive-bombers succeeded in damaging the French battle-cruiser, Jean Bart, and F4Fs strafed the bombers of GB I/32 at Camp Cazes airfield, some of which exploded as they were ready for take-off with bombs already on board, thus ensuring their mission never went ahead. The U.S. Navy did not have it all their own way, though, as several F4F pilots were shot down and taken prisoner.
The day's victory tally of enemy aircraft shot down by the French fighter pilots totaled seven confirmed and three probable, yet their losses were considered heavy – five pilots killed, four wounded and 13 aircraft destroyed either in combat or on the ground – when one considers that GC II/5, based in Casablanca, had lost only two pilots killed during the whole of the six-week campaign in France two years before. In the meantime, F4Fs of U.S. Navy Fighter Squadron VF-41 from the USS Ranger strafed and destroyed (ironically) three U.S.-built Douglas DB-7 bombers of GB I/32, which were being refueled and rearmed at Casablanca, leaving a mere three others undamaged.
Nevertheless, having been reinforced by two other bombers, GB I/32 carried out a bombing mission against the beaches at Safi, where more U.S. soldiers were landing, the next morning. One of the bombers was damaged and attempted to make a forced-landing, only it exploded upon contact with the ground, killing the entire crew. Fighter unit GC I/5 lost four pilots in combat that day (9 November) and it was on that same day that Adjudant (Warrant Officer) Bressieux had the distinction of becoming the last pilot in the Vichy French air force to claim a combat victory, in this case an F4F of VF-9. Shortly afterwards, 13 F4Fs attacked the airfield at Médiouna and destroyed a total of 11 French aircraft, including six from GC II/5.
On the morning of 10 November 1942, the Vichy French air force units in Morocco had a mere 37 combat-ready fighters and 40 bombers left to face the might of the U.S. Navy F4Fs. Médiouna was attacked once again and several of the fighters were left burning, while two reconnaissance Potez were shot down, one by an F4F and the other by an SBD over the airfield at Chichaoua, where three F4Fs would later destroy four more Potez in a strafing attack.
Ultimately, the presence of Vichy France in North Africa as an ally of the Germans came to an end (ironically) on Armistice Day, 11 November 1942, when General Nogučs, the commander-in-chief of the Vichy armed forces, requested a cease-fire – although that did not stop a unit of U.S. Navy aircraft attacking the airfield at Marrakech and destroying several French aircraft, apparently on the initiative of the unit's commander. Once the cease-fire request was accepted, the war between the Allies and the Vichy French came to an end after two and a half years of what was termed "fratricidal" fighting.
"Torch" had resulted in a victory for the Allies, even though it was fair to say that the French had no choice but to engage the Americans, otherwise the Americans would (and did) engage them since they were technically enemies. As a result, 12 air force and 11 navy pilots lost their lives in the final four days of combat between (Vichy) France and the Allies during World War II. Barely two weeks later, the Germans invaded the then-unoccupied zone of metropolitan France and ordered the complete dissolution of the Vichy French armed forces on 1 December 1942. Those units then not under Vichy control would then be free to join with their Free French colleagues to fight the common enemy: Nazi Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_French_Air_Force
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I thought 14 was a pretty high number to recommend. I see that as 2-3 years of work for HTC.
Pulling up Wiki and adding every other plane found that ever flew during WWII makes trying
to develop a short term addition list quite impractical. It would look something like:
Ambrosini SAI.207 1942 Italy
Ansaldo A.120 1925 Italy Italy, Lithuania
Arsenal VG-33 1940 France
Avia B-135 1941 Czechoslovakia Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria
Bell P-63 Kingcobra 1942 United States U.S., USSR
Bloch MB.151/MB.152/MB.155 1940 France France, Greece, Romania
Boeing P-26 Peashooter 1933 United States U.S., China, Philippines
Breda Ba.27 1933 Italy China
CAC Boomerang[3] 1943 Australia
Caudron C.714 1940 France France, Finland, Poland
Curtiss P-36 Hawk/Mohawk 1938 United States U.S., Brazil, Finland, France, Netherlands, Norway, Thailand, UK
Curtiss-Wright CW-21 Demon 1939 United States China, Netherlands
Dewoitine D.500/D.510 1935 France France, China
Dewoitine D.520 1940 France France, Bulgaria, Italy
Fiat G.50 1938 Italy Italy, Finland, Croatia
Fiat G.55 1943 Italy
Fokker D.XXI 1936 Netherlands Netherlands, Denmark, Finland
Grumman F8F Bearcat[4] 1945 United States
Heinkel He 112 1937 Germany Germany, Hungary, Romania
IAR 80 1942 Romania
Ikarus IK-2 parasol monoplane 1935 Yugoslavia Yugoslavia, Croatia
Kawasaki Ki-100 1945 Japan
Koolhoven F.K.58 1940 Netherlands Netherlands, France
Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov LaGG-1 1940 Soviet Union
Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov LaGG-3 1941 Soviet Union USSR, Finland
Loire 46 parasol monoplane 1936 France
Macchi C.200 1939 Italy
MÁVAG Héja 1941 Hungary
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-1 1940 Soviet Union
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3 1941 Soviet Union
Mitsubishi A5M[5] 1936 Japan
Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 1939 France France, Croatia, Finland, Italy, Poland
Nakajima A6M2-N floatplane fighter 1942 Japan
Nakajima Ki-27 1937 Japan Japan, Manchukuo, Thailand
Nakajima Ki-43 1941 Japan Japan, Manchukuo, Thailand
North American P-64[6] 1940 United States
PZL P.7 parasol monoplane 1933 Poland
PZL P.11 parasol monoplane 1934 Poland Poland, Romania
PZL P.24 parasol monoplane 1936 Poland Poland, Bulgaria, Greece, Romania
Reggiane Re.2000 1940 Italy Italy, Hungary
Reggiane Re.2001 1941 Italy
Reggiane Re.2005 1943 Italy
Republic P-43 Lancer 1941 United States U.S., Australia, China
Rogožarski IK-3 1940 Yugoslavia
Seversky P-35/J 9 1937 United States Sweden
VL Myrsky 1943 Finland
Vultee P-66 Vanguard 1941 United States U.S., China
Yakovlev Yak-1 1940 Soviet Union USSR, France
Yakovlev Yak-3 1944 Soviet Union USSR, France
Yakovlev Yak-7/Yak-7B 1942 Soviet Union USSR, France
(Then the heavies)
Bell YFM-1 Airacuda[2] flying cruiser 1940 United States
Blackburn Roc turret fighter 1939 United Kingdom
Blackburn Skua fighter/dive bomber 1938 United Kingdom
Boulton Paul Defiant turret fighter 1939 United Kingdom UK, Canada
Bristol Beaufighter 1940 United Kingdom UK, Australia, Canada, U.S.
Bristol Blenheim night fighter 1937 United Kingdom
Dornier Do 215 night fighter 1939 Germany
Dornier Do 217 night fighter 1941 Germany
Dornier Do 335 1944 Germany
Douglas P-70/Havoc night fighter 1941 United States U.S., UK
Fairey Firefly fleet fighter/dive bomber 1941 United Kingdom
Fairey Fulmar fleet fighter 1940 United Kingdom
Fokker G.I 1939 Netherlands
Grumman F7F Tigercat night fighter 1944 United States
Heinkel He 219 night fighter 1943 Germany
IMAM Ro.57 1943 Italy
Junkers Ju 388 night fighter 1944 Germany
Kawasaki Ki-45 night fighter 1942 Japan
Kawasaki Ki-102 twin engine fighter 1945 Japan
Messerschmitt Me 210 1943 Germany Germany, Hungary
Mitsubishi Ki-109 bomber interceptor 1945 Japan
Nakajima J1N night fighter/interceptor 1942 Japan
Northrop P-61 Black Widow night fighter 1944 United States
Petlyakov Pe-3 1941 Soviet Union USSR, Finland
Potez 630 1938 France France, Greece, Romania
Westland Welkin high altitude interceptor[7] 1944 United Kingdom
Westland Whirlwind 1940 United Kingdom
~~~~~~~~~~~And that's just mono-wing fighters. :)
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I really don't see the point of adding planes that weren't competitive with the I-16 just to represent a country. Representing a country just to say that it is represented and then to have the airplane never flown seems silly.
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I thought 14 was a pretty high number to recommend. I see that as 2-3 years of work for HTC.
Pulling up Wiki and adding every other plane found that ever flew during WWII makes trying
to develop a short term addition list quite impractical. It would look something like:
Ambrosini SAI.207 1942 Italy
Ansaldo A.120 1925 Italy Italy, Lithuania
Arsenal VG-33 1940 France
Avia B-135 1941 Czechoslovakia Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria
Bell P-63 Kingcobra 1942 United States U.S., USSR
Bloch MB.151/MB.152/MB.155 1940 France France, Greece, Romania
Boeing P-26 Peashooter 1933 United States U.S., China, Philippines
Breda Ba.27 1933 Italy China
CAC Boomerang[3] 1943 Australia
Caudron C.714 1940 France France, Finland, Poland
Curtiss P-36 Hawk/Mohawk 1938 United States U.S., Brazil, Finland, France, Netherlands, Norway, Thailand, UK
Curtiss-Wright CW-21 Demon 1939 United States China, Netherlands
Dewoitine D.500/D.510 1935 France France, China
Dewoitine D.520 1940 France France, Bulgaria, Italy
Fiat G.50 1938 Italy Italy, Finland, Croatia
Fiat G.55 1943 Italy
Fokker D.XXI 1936 Netherlands Netherlands, Denmark, Finland
Grumman F8F Bearcat[4] 1945 United States
Heinkel He 112 1937 Germany Germany, Hungary, Romania
IAR 80 1942 Romania
Ikarus IK-2 parasol monoplane 1935 Yugoslavia Yugoslavia, Croatia
Kawasaki Ki-100 1945 Japan
Koolhoven F.K.58 1940 Netherlands Netherlands, France
Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov LaGG-1 1940 Soviet Union
Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov LaGG-3 1941 Soviet Union USSR, Finland
Loire 46 parasol monoplane 1936 France
Macchi C.200 1939 Italy
MÁVAG Héja 1941 Hungary
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-1 1940 Soviet Union
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3 1941 Soviet Union
Mitsubishi A5M[5] 1936 Japan
Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 1939 France France, Croatia, Finland, Italy, Poland
Nakajima A6M2-N floatplane fighter 1942 Japan
Nakajima Ki-27 1937 Japan Japan, Manchukuo, Thailand
Nakajima Ki-43 1941 Japan Japan, Manchukuo, Thailand
North American P-64[6] 1940 United States
PZL P.7 parasol monoplane 1933 Poland
PZL P.11 parasol monoplane 1934 Poland Poland, Romania
PZL P.24 parasol monoplane 1936 Poland Poland, Bulgaria, Greece, Romania
Reggiane Re.2000 1940 Italy Italy, Hungary
Reggiane Re.2001 1941 Italy
Reggiane Re.2005 1943 Italy
Republic P-43 Lancer 1941 United States U.S., Australia, China
Rogožarski IK-3 1940 Yugoslavia
Seversky P-35/J 9 1937 United States Sweden
VL Myrsky 1943 Finland
Vultee P-66 Vanguard 1941 United States U.S., China
Yakovlev Yak-1 1940 Soviet Union USSR, France
Yakovlev Yak-3 1944 Soviet Union USSR, France
Yakovlev Yak-7/Yak-7B 1942 Soviet Union USSR, France
(Then the heavies)
Bell YFM-1 Airacuda[2] flying cruiser 1940 United States
Blackburn Roc turret fighter 1939 United Kingdom
Blackburn Skua fighter/dive bomber 1938 United Kingdom
Boulton Paul Defiant turret fighter 1939 United Kingdom UK, Canada
Bristol Beaufighter 1940 United Kingdom UK, Australia, Canada, U.S.
Bristol Blenheim night fighter 1937 United Kingdom
Dornier Do 215 night fighter 1939 Germany
Dornier Do 217 night fighter 1941 Germany
Dornier Do 335 1944 Germany
Douglas P-70/Havoc night fighter 1941 United States U.S., UK
Fairey Firefly fleet fighter/dive bomber 1941 United Kingdom
Fairey Fulmar fleet fighter 1940 United Kingdom
Fokker G.I 1939 Netherlands
Grumman F7F Tigercat night fighter 1944 United States
Heinkel He 219 night fighter 1943 Germany
IMAM Ro.57 1943 Italy
Junkers Ju 388 night fighter 1944 Germany
Kawasaki Ki-45 night fighter 1942 Japan
Kawasaki Ki-102 twin engine fighter 1945 Japan
Messerschmitt Me 210 1943 Germany Germany, Hungary
Mitsubishi Ki-109 bomber interceptor 1945 Japan
Nakajima J1N night fighter/interceptor 1942 Japan
Northrop P-61 Black Widow night fighter 1944 United States
Petlyakov Pe-3 1941 Soviet Union USSR, Finland
Potez 630 1938 France France, Greece, Romania
Westland Welkin high altitude interceptor[7] 1944 United Kingdom
Westland Whirlwind 1940 United Kingdom
~~~~~~~~~~~And that's just mono-wing fighters. :)
You missed at least 2 :lol Hs-129 Ikarus IK-3 :aok
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I really don't see the point of adding planes that weren't competitive with the I-16 just to represent a country. Representing a country just to say that it is represented and then to have the airplane never flown seems silly.
That would not be the case with the French
Fought hard, squadron's strength, many kills, own planes, one of the 1st in the war.
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While I agree that it would be nice to have every plane that was in WWII in AH, that's just not possible. HTC is great company, and I enjoy their product as a customer but they are a small company. As with any business I think they would have to look at an ROI. If (and I'm just throwing out a ballpark extremely rough estimate here) HTC has roughly 100-200 man hours in a plane, if that plane sits in a hanger and only counts as .2% of the total war effort it might not make sense to add that plane into the set as the amount of hours to make verse population use is low or non existent. I'm not saying its wrong to want or we shouldn't have these aircraft, but IMO I'd rather send HTC my $14.95 a mo to add planes that will be used throughout all theaters of AH (Not just the MA or SEC).
A matrix I found on country production of aircraft (source: http://www.taphilo.com/history/WWII/Production-Figures-WWII.shtml )
(http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s497/Coprhead/Untitled-1_zpse46ee2f3.jpg)
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I look at those totals and just kind of shake my head at the nations like Holland that had 20 of this fighter and 10 of that fighter as an air force. The USA, USSR, UK, Germany and Japan were playing in a completely different league than the other nations. France could have played if it hadn't been knocked out so early. Italy tried to play, but couldn't.
It just seems like those little air forces were a waste of money. What good are they going to do for you if Japan or the UK come for you?
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Its pretty amazing when you look at the numbers, and I think of it like this. Those were mostly hand built planes, no robots, or CNC machines, real people.
(http://www.taphilo.com/history/WWII/USAAF/Boeing/B17/h305-1.jpg)
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(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_002_zps2f858c0a.png)
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FW190-A3
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/02_wallpaper_Fw190A3_II-26_zps4c4abcba.jpg)
Though the debate of the necessity of this model is ongoing, the ease of adding it to the
roster would come from the airframe modeling already being present.
The Fw 190 A-3 was equipped with the BMW 801 D-2 engine, which increased power to 1,700 PS (1,677 hp, 1,250 kW) at takeoff by improving the supercharger and raising the compression ratio. Because of these changes, the A-3 model required a higher octane fuel—100 (C3) versus 87 (B4).[26] The A-3 retained the same weaponry as the A-2.[31] The A-3 also introduced the Umrüst-Bausätze factory conversion sets. The Fw 190 A-3/U1 and U2 were single experimental Fw 190s: U1 (W.Nr 130270) was the first 190 to have the engine mount extended by 15 cm (6 in), which would be standardized on the later production A-5 model. The U2 (W.Nr 130386) had RZ 65 73 mm (2.87 in) rocket launcher racks under the wings with three rockets per wing. There were also a small number of U7 aircraft tested as high-altitude fighters armed with only two 20 mm MG 151 cannon, but with reduced overall weight.[32]
The Fw 190 A-3/U3 was the first of the Jabo (Jagdbomber), using an ETC-501 centre-line bomb rack able to carry up to 500 kg (1,100 lb) of bombs or, with horizontal stabilising bars, one 300 L (80 US gal) drop tank. The U3 retained the fuselage-mounted 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17s and the wing-mounted 20 mm MG 151 cannon, with the outer MG FF being removed.[32] [N 3]
The Fw 190 A-3/U4 was a reconnaissance version with two RB 12.5 cameras in the rear fuselage and a EK 16 gun camera or a Robot II miniature camera in the leading edge of the port wing root. Armament was similar to the U3, however, and the ETC 501 was usually fitted with a 300 L (80 US gal) drop tank.[32] See A-2 for production numbers.[33]
In autumn 1942, a political decision diverted 72 new aircraft to Turkey in an effort to keep that country friendly to the Axis powers. These were designated Fw 190 A-3a (a=ausländisch (foreign), designation for export models) and delivered between October 1942 and March 1943. The Turkish aircraft had the same armament as the A-1: four 7.92 mm (.312 in) synchronized MG 17 machine guns and two 20 mm MG FF cannon. There was no FuG 25 IFF device in the radio equipment.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190
Yak-3
(http://basilzolotov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/yak-3-24-x1.png)
As above, the airframe work is already done.
Operational history
Lighter and smaller than Yak-9 but powered by the same engine, the Yak-3 was a forgiving, easy-to-handle aircraft loved by both rookie and veteran pilots and ground crew as well. It was robust, easy to maintain, and a highly successful dog-fighter.[1] It was used mostly as a tactical fighter, flying low over battlefields and engaging in dogfights below 13,000 ft.[4]
The new aircraft began to reach front line units during summer 1944. Yak-3 service tests were conducted by 91st IAP of the 2nd Air Army, commanded by Lt Colonel Kovalyov, in June–July 1944. The regiment had the task of gaining air superiority. During 431 missions, 20 Luftwaffe fighters and three Ju 87s were shot down while Soviet losses amounted to two Yak-3s shot down.[5] A large dogfight developed on 16 June 1944, when 18 Yak-3s clashed with 24 German aircraft. Soviet Yak-3 fighters shot down 15 German aircraft for the loss of one Yak destroyed and one damaged. The following day, Luftwaffe activity over that section of the front had virtually ceased.[5] On 17 July 1944, eight Yaks attacked a formation of 60 German aircraft, including escorting fighters. In the ensuing dogfight, the Luftwaffe lost three Junkers Ju 87s and four Bf 109Gs, for no losses to the Yaks.[6] Consequently, the Luftwaffe issued an order to "avoid combat below five thousand metres with Yakovlev fighters lacking an oil cooler intake beneath the nose!"[7] Luftwaffe fighters in combat with the Yak-3 tried to use surprise tactics, attacking from above.[8]
Unresolved wartime problems with the Yak-3 included plywood surfaces coming unstuck when the aircraft pulled out of a high-speed dive.[1] Other drawbacks of the aircraft were short range and poor engine reliability. The pneumatic system for actuating landing gear, flaps and brakes, typical for all Yakovlev fighters of the time, was problematic. Though less reliable than hydraulic or electrical alternatives, the pneumatic system was preferred owing to significant weight savings.
In 1944, the Normandie-Niemen Group re-equipped with the Yak-3, scoring with it the last 99 of their 273 air victories against the Luftwaffe. [8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yak-3
Ki-100
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ki-100/Kawasaki-Ki-100/images/Art-Kawasaki-Ki-100-I-Otsu-59-Sentai-3-Chutai-W71-Japan-1945-0A.jpg)
Using the KI-84 as the basis, this airframe shouldn't take as much time as it would from scratch.
The Ki-100 made its combat debut on the night of 9 March 1945[7] and suffered its first loss on 7 April 1945, when a Ki-100 flown by Master Sergeant Yasuo Hiema of the 18th Sentai was shot down by a B-29 after "attacking the formation again and again".[7][N 1] Allied aircrews soon realised that they were facing a formidable new fighter[12] Although far fewer Ki-100s were available than the Ki-84s, it was perceived to be one of the most important fighters in the inventory. However, during interception of the high-flying B-29s (the B-29 raids soon became low-level missions) the new Japanese fighters struggled as the Ha-112-II engine performance decreased at high altitudes.
An overall assessment of the effectiveness of the Ki-100 rated it highly in agility, and a well-handled Ki-100 was able to outmanoeuvre any American fighter, including the formidable P-51D Mustangs and the P-47N Thunderbolts which were escorting the B-29 raids over Japan by that time, and was comparable in speed, especially at medium altitudes. In the hands of an experienced pilot, the Ki-100 was a deadly opponent and, together with the Army's Ki-84 and the Navy's Kawanishi N1K-J, the only other Japanese fighters being able to defeat the latest Allied types.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-100
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G.55
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/personal-gallery/54360d1200958836-fiat-g-55-fiat_g55_nucleo_test.jpg)
The Italians appear to have been very happy with a specific shape when it came to overall fighter design.
Modifications of the existing Macchi fighters should make airframe modeling easier.
The first Centauro to see operational use was the third prototype. On 21 March 1943, the aircraft was assigned to 20° Gruppo (squadron), 51° Stormo (wing) CT, based on Roma-Ciampino, for operational evaluation. In May, the G.55 followed the unit to Capoterra, near Cagliari having its baptism of fire on 5 June 1943, against Allied aircraft attacking Sardinia. The two first pre-production series flew, respectively, on 10 April and in May 1943. In early June they were assigned to 353a Squadriglia (flight) CT based in Foligno, Umbria, were, until August, were transferred nine more aircraft.[11] Pilots were delighted when they began to receive the new fighter in summer 1943.
On 8 September 1943, the date of Armistice, the Regia Aeronautica had received 35 G.55s. Only one of them flew to southern Italy, accepting the invitation of Maresciallo d'Italia Pietro Badoglio to surrender to Allied forces.
There still is not exact data about the G.55 captured by Luftwaffe or acquired by Aeronautica Nazionale Republicana. About 18 G.55s were acquired by ANR while 12-20, or even 42, according to some reports, were requisitioned by the Luftwaffe.[11] The Centauro entered in service with the ANR; a decision was made to produce 500 G.55s, of which 300 were G.55/I and 200 G.55/II Serie II, armed with five 20 mm MG 151/20s and no machine guns. Only 148 were delivered to the ANR units that, as the number of available G.55s dwindled, were progressively re-equipped with the Bf 109G, of various sub-versions, even though Italian pilots preferred the G.55 with cancellation of production being extremely unpopular.
The first unit in ANR to be equipped with G.55 was the Squadriglia Montefusco, in November 1943, operating from Piemonte until 29 March 1944, when it was absorbed by the 1st Gruppo and transferred in Veneto. The 2nd Gruppo was formed at Bresso. It was initially commanded by Lt Col Antonio Vizzoto, and later by Lt Col Aldo Alessandrini. [14] It had three Squadriglie (the 4th, Gigi Tre Osei, the 5th, Diavoli Rossi, and the 6th, Gamba di Ferro). The unit operated near Milan and Varese until April 1944, then it was transferred near Parma and Pavia, then again near the Lake Garda (Brescia and Verona). At the end of May, the 2° Gruppo gave its G.55s to 1° Gruppo and re-equipped with 46 exI./JG 53 and II.JG 77 Bf 109G-6/R6[14]
With the ANR, the G.55s gave a good account of themselves against Allied fighters like the Spitfires and Mustang.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-55
Re.2005
(http://www.nags-gallery.com/gallery/Re2005~1024.jpg)
Though more differences can be seen than in the G.55, the basic shape is still there.
The first pilot to use the Re. 2005 for operational duty was Maggiore Vittorio Minguzzi, commander of 22o Gruppo. The unit was based at Napoli-Capodichino airfield for the defense of the city. Minguzzi received the prototype of the Re.2005 (MM.494) — after flight test evaluations in Guidonia — and made the first flight with this aircraft on 7 March 1943. He and the most able pilots in the Gruppo flew this prototype until 23 March and they all had a very favourable and enthusiastic impression of it. He then took it to Napoli-Capodichino where it was incorporated into 362a Squadriglia. This unit – commanded by Capitano Germano La Ferla – was the first to be equipped with the Re.2005. [7]
Minguzzi scrambled for the first time in the Sagittario on 24 March, when Naples was attacked and on 2 April he claimed a four-engined B-24 Liberator bomber over the Isle of Ischia. This claim is not verified against corresponding USAAF losses. Italian ace Vittorio Minguzzi was impressed by this aircraft following its tests and combat debut on 2 April 1943. He wrote:
The aircraft is in ideal flying conditions at an altitude of 7,000–7,500 meters and can make repeated attacks on American heavy bombers in all positions and from all directions... I can therefore say that the speed and handling qualities are excellent even at 7,000 meters and that compared to the Macchi 202, the Sagittario made two attacks in the time required by the Macchi C.202 for a single pass.[8]
Grp Cpt. Duncan Smith, DSO DFCA, a British fighter pilot and fighter leader of World War II, greatly respected the Re.2005:
The Re.2005 'Sagittario' was a potent aircraft. Having had a dog-fight with one of them, I am convinced we would have been hard pressed to cope in our Spitfires operationally, if the Italians or Germans had had a few Squadrons equipped with these aircraft at the beginning of the Sicily campaign or in operations from Malta. Fast, and with excellent manoeuvrability, the Re.2005 was altogether a superb aeroplane. Neither the Macchi 205 nor the Bf 109G measured up to the capabilities of the Re.2005 series in manoeuvrability or rate of climb. I think it was easily the best aircraft Italy produced. It is a pity that no Re.2001/5s survive this day because they were fine examples of Italian engineering craftsmanship.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggiane_Re.2005
JU-52
(http://soldadosyuniformes.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/junkers-ju-52-3m-g7es-7c2ba-cuerpo-aereo-frente-del-este-1943.jpg)
Alright, now we're getting into a completely new airframe from scratch. The first of the
triple-engined fixed gear type. But it may provide good practice for 2 more.
The Junkers Ju 52 (nicknamed Tante Ju ("Auntie Ju") and Iron Annie) was a German trimotor transport aircraft manufactured from 1932 to 1945. It saw both civilian and military service during the 1930s and 1940s. In a civilian role, it flew with over 12 air carriers including Swissair and Deutsche Luft Hansa as an airliner and freight hauler. In a military role, it flew with the Luftwaffe as a troop and cargo transport and briefly as a medium bomber. The Ju 52 continued in postwar service with military and civilian air fleets well into the 1980s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_52
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we need to get Arlo better resources than wikipedia...never tells the "whole story".
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SM.79
(http://www.belliludi.com/SM.79.jpg)
I believe this aircraft design would see a decent amount of use in Med/Italy/Sicily settings.
The Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero (Italian for "Sparrowhawk") was a three-engined Italian medium bomber with a wood-and-metal structure. Originally designed as a fast passenger aircraft, this low-wing monoplane, in the years 1937–39, set 26 world records that qualified it for some time as the fastest medium bomber in the world.[1] It first saw action during the Spanish Civil War and flew on all fronts in which Italy was involved during World War II.[2] It became famous and achieved many successes as a torpedo bomber in the Mediterranean theater.[3] The SM.79 was an outstanding aircraft and was certainly the best-known Italian aeroplane of World War II.[2] It was easily recognizable due to its distinctive fuselage dorsal "hump", and was well liked by its crews who nicknamed it Gobbo Maledetto ("damned hunchback").[4] It was the most widely produced Italian bomber of World War II, with some 1,300 built, remaining in Italian service until 1952.[5]
http://www.belliludi.com/SM.79.jpg
SM.82
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/kgambit/kits/SM82-1.jpg)
As mentioned elsewhere in the forum, this would see use as both a transport and a bomber.
Speaking of which, once this and the JU-52 are modeled, simply adding the C-47, individually,
for the British (Dakota), Japanese (Showa/Nakajima L2D) and Soviets (Lisunov Li-2) with
possible modifications allowing for a single gun emplacement would give all 6 nationalities a
transport - and possibly allow for unique skinning of troops.
The Savoia-Marchetti SM.82 was an Italian bomber and transport aircraft of World War II. It was a cantilever, mid-wing monoplane trimotor with a retractable, tailwheel undercarriage. About 400 were built, the first entering service in 1940, but although able to operate as a bomber with a maximum bombload of up to 8,818 lb (4000 kg), the SM.82 saw very limited use in this role.[1]
Post-war about 30 SM.82s continued in service with the Aeronautica Militare Italliana, many remaining in service until the early 1960s.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoia-Marchetti_SM.82
B6N
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/1036/pics/65_12.jpg)
Ok .... here's the better option to the Kate for later war events.
The Nakajima B6N Tenzan (Japanese: 中島 B6N 天山—"Heavenly Mountain", Allied reporting name: "Jill") was the Imperial Japanese Navy's standard carrier-borne torpedo bomber during the final years of World War II and the successor to the B5N "Kate". Due to its protracted development, a shortage of experienced pilots and the United States Navy's achievement of air superiority by the time of its introduction, the B6N was never able to fully demonstrate its combat potential.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_B6N
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D4Y
(http://www.aviationartstore.com/images/profile_Yokosuka_D4Y-2_Judy_1945.jpg)
And a Japanese late war dive bomber.
The Yokosuka (横須賀?) D4Y Suisei (彗星 "Comet"?) Navy Carrier Dive bomber was operated by the Imperial Japanese Navy. Its Allied reporting name was "Judy". The D4Y was one of the fastest dive-bombers of the war and only the delays in its development hindered its service while its predecessor, the slower fixed-gear Aichi D3A remained in service much longer than intended. Despite limited use, the speed and the range of the D4Y was nevertheless valuable, and the type was used with success as reconnaissance aircraft as well as for kamikaze missions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokosuka_D4Y
Pe-2
(http://basilzolotov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/pe-2-2-x.png)
One of the best if not the best Soviet built dive-bomber of WWII.
But it's still not a level bomber.
The Petlyakov Pe-2 (Russian: Петляков Пе-2, nicknamed Peshka (Пешка - "Pawn"; also a Russian diminutive for "little Pe") was a Soviet dive bomber aircraft used during World War II. It was regarded as one of the best ground attack aircraft of the war[2] and it was extremely successful in the roles of heavy fighter, reconnaissance and night fighter.[3] It was one of the most important aircraft of World War II, being in many respects similar to the British de Havilland Mosquito. 11,400 Pe-2s were manufactured during the war, greater numbers than any other twin-engined combat aircraft.[3][4] (Second in production numbers was the American Lockheed P-38 Lightning, 10,037 were built). The Pe-2 was fast, maneuverable and durable. Several Communist nations flew the type after the war, when it became known by the NATO reporting name Buck. Six captured Pe-2s were also transferred from the Germans to the Finnish Air Force during the Continuation War, with the serial code PE- and the unofficial nickname Pekka-Eemeli.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petlyakov_Pe-2
SB-2
(http://basilzolotov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/sb-vov12-x.png)
SB 2M-100
(http://www.airpages.ru/img/ru/tu2vs.jpg)
SB-RK (See a slight resemblance to the Pe-2?)
This one is. An old and trusted design .. to a point. It would still be a good
addition for early war events and such.
The Tupolev ANT-40, also known by its service name Tupolev SB (Russian: Скоростной бомбардировщик – Skorostnoi Bombardirovschik – "high speed bomber"), and development co-name TsAGI-40, was a high speed twin-engined three-seat monoplane bomber, first flown in 1934.
The design was very advanced, but lacked refinement, much to the dismay of crews and maintenance personnel – and of Stalin, who pointed out that "there are no trivialities in aviation".
Numerically the most important bomber in the world in the late 1930s, the SB was the first modern stressed-skin aircraft produced in quantity in the Soviet Union and probably the most formidable bomber of the mid-1930s. Many versions saw extensive action in Spain, the Republic of China, Mongolia, Finland and at the beginning of the War against Germany in 1941. It was also used in various duties in civil variants, as trainers and in many secondary roles.
Successful in the Spanish Civil War because it outpaced most fighters, the aircraft was obsolete by 1941. By June 1941, 94% of bombers in the Red Army air force (VVS RKKA) were SBs.
SB 2M-100 – first production model. Wing area increased to 56.7 m2 (610 ft2). Equipped with Klimov M-100 engines (the Hispano-Suiza 12Y built under licence) driving two-bladed propellers.
SB-RK (Rasresnoye krilo – slotted wing) – Dive bomber delevloped in parallel with SB-MN. Same wings as SB-MN, but with large slotted flaps usable as dive brakes. The cooling radiators were buried within the wings, with an air intake on the leading and the exhaust on the wing's upper surface. Equipped with three ShKAS machine guns, and it could carry six 100 kg (220 lb) bombs or two 250 kg (550 lb) bombs internally or 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) bombs externally. Ordered into production as Arkhangelskii Ar-2. 200 built before it was superseded by the Pe-2 and Tu-2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_SB
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we need to get Arlo better resources than wikipedia...never tells the "whole story".
Ten times as many posts and the 'whole story' can be told. ;) I've other reference material
available. I have to tell you, prejudice against Wiki is inflated. The last book I picked up is
not only rife with typos but it couldn't even reference the plane profiles properly.
But anything you feel needs addressing is available for just that. :)
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Kawasaki Ki-45
(http://f8onpmu.devhub.com/img/upload/tgrftyduykiultoyi.jpg)
This one may be a chore .... but it may be worth it.
The Ki-45 was initially used as a long-range bomber escort. The 84th Independent Flight Wing (Dokuritsu Hikō Chutai) used them in June 1942 in attacks on Guilin, where they encountered, but were no match for Curtiss P-40s flown by the Flying Tigers. In September of the same year, they met P-40s over Hanoi with similar results. It became clear that the Ki-45 could not hold its own against single-engine fighters in aerial combat.
It was subsequently deployed in several theaters in the roles of interception, attack (anti-ground as well as anti-shipping) and fleet defense. Its greatest strength turned out to be as an anti-bomber interceptor, as was the case of the Bf 110 in Europe. In New Guinea, the IJAAF used the aircraft in an anti-ship role, where the Ki-45 was heavily armed with one 37 mm (1.46 in) and two 20 mm cannons and could carry two 250 kg (550 lb) bombs on hard points under the wings. 1,675 Ki-45s of all versions were produced during the war.
The first production type (Ko) was armed with two 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine gun in the nose, a single Type 97 20 mm cannon in the belly offset to the right, and a trainable 7.92 mm (.312 in) machine gun in the rear cabin, and this was followed with the Otsu with the lower 20 mm cannon replaced by a 37 mm (1.46 in) type 94 tank gun, to counter B-17 Flying Fortress bombers. While the firepower was devastating, manual reloading meant that only two rounds could be fired per minute. The next type (Hei) restored the 20 mm cannon, and this time placed an automatic 37 mm (1.46 in) gun in the nose. A later addition in the ("tei") type were twin obliquely-firing 20 mm Ho-5 cannons behind the cockpit and often propulsive exhaust stacks.
Soon after entering service, the Ki-45 was assigned to home defense, and several were dispatched against the Doolittle raid, though they did not see action. The craft's heavy armament proved to be effective against the B-29 Superfortress raids which started in June 1944. However, its performance was insufficient to counter B-29s flying at 10,000 m (32,800 ft). Modifications such as reduction of fuel and ordnance were attempted to raise performance to little avail, and in the end aircraft were used effectively in aerial ramming attacks. An example of a ramming attack was the kamikaze attack on USS Dickerson on 2 April 1945 off Okinawa. The commanding officer and 54 crew were killed when a Toryu clipped the stacks from astern, and rammed the bridge. A second Toryu hit the foredeck, opening a 7 m (23 ft) hole in the deck. The ensuing fires demolished the ship, and after the surviving crew was rescued by fellow fast transports and ex-destroyers Bunch and Herbert, the ship was towed out to sea and scuttled.[4]
Remains of the only surviving Ki-45 KAIc on display at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, Virginia
In 1945, the forward and upward-firing guns showed some results with the commencement of night time bombing raids, but the lack of radar was a considerable handicap. By the spring of 1945, the advent of American carrier-based fighters and Iwo Jima-based P-51s escorting B-29s over the skies of Japan brought the Ki-45's career to an end.
The next version, the Kawasaki Ki-45 KAId, was developed specifically as a night fighter, which were supposed to be equipped with centimetric radar in the nose; due to production difficulties, this did not occur. The aircraft took part in night defense of the Home Islands and equipped four sentais from the autumn of 1944 to the War's end. They obtained notable successes, and one Ki-45 sentai claimed 150 victories and of these claimed eight USAAF B-29 Superfortresses in their first combat.
The Ki-45 was to be replaced in the ground-attack role by the Ki-102, but was never wholly supplanted by the war's end.
Three Ki-45s fell into communist Chinese hands after World War II. Unlike most captured Japanese aircraft that were employed in the training role, the three Ki-45s were assigned to the 1st Squadron of the Combat Flying Group in March 1949 and were used in combat missions. These aircraft were retired in the early 1950s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-45
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Ki-100 is 100% unrelated to the Ki-84. The Ki-100 was a radial engined version of the Ki-61-II done as an emergency lashup after we destroyed the factory thst built thrir inline engines. Thry had a bunch of completeted, engineless Ki-61-II airframes and this got them in the air.
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I acknowledge the lineage. I'm talking about modeling. In either
case, I'm sure HTC could benefit from one or the other. :)
(http://japaneseaircraft.devhub.com/img/upload/ki-61-i-kaic-col-2.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Nakajima_Ki-84.svg/679px-Nakajima_Ki-84.svg.png)
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ki-100/Kawasaki-Ki-100/images/Art-Kawasaki-Ki-100-I-Otsu-59-Sentai-3-Chutai-W71-Japan-1945-0A.jpg)
Having said that, my consideration regarding these particular planes
includes many of them offering HTC some shortcuts (not all, of course)
- as well as trying to logically fill some gaps and even make an offering to
the MA side.
It would make their job easier and we would likely see additions sooner. :) :salute
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you find any pilot manuals or technical documents on the meatball planes? documentation like that would make it more likely for the planes to get added to ah.
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you find any pilot manuals or technical documents on the meatball planes? documentation like that would make it more likely for the planes to get added to ah.
HTCs library is is likely more complete than most players in the community.
I say most because, well, this is a rather unique and dedicated one. :)
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Found this interesting and somewhat related when looking for stuff:
(http://www.socalvalue.com/airace/production.jpg)
http://www.socalvalue.com/airace/production.jpg
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D4Y stuff - requires translation
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Flatscan_zpsac2cde69.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/engine_zps0d7c7bb4.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/bomb2_zps62729ea3.png)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/bomb1_zpsf3f8d990.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/50_zps4e189b38.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/49_zps5f1dd65e.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/fuel_zps05c8ac07.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/gun_zpsf5b95459.png)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/radio_zps4193d1cd.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/side_zps4b1ff5b0.png)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/side2_zps80a0de03.jpg)
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hey, Arlo, those pics won't work unless you are logged into ww2aircraft.net...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/405468/AH%20Stuff/ww2net%20login.jpg)
gonna have to find another way to post them.
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hey, Arlo, those pics won't work unless you are logged into ww2aircraft.net...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/405468/AH%20Stuff/ww2net%20login.jpg)
gonna have to find another way to post them.
Well, registration is free ... but hold on a sec.
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Ten times as many posts and the 'whole story' can be told. ;) I've other reference material
available. I have to tell you, prejudice against Wiki is inflated. The last book I picked up is
not only rife with typos but it couldn't even reference the plane profiles properly.
But anything you feel needs addressing is available for just that. :)
missed this in the shuffle...imagine that book full of errors in infinite numbers in digital format...wikipedia. good place to start a search but don't put your money on the contents.
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missed this in the shuffle...imagine that book full of errors in infinite numbers in digital format...wikipedia. good place to start a search but don't put your money on the contents.
Wikie articles - especially articles on WWII hardware - tend to be quite detailed with a rather long list of references.
They can be infinitely edited and amended and now that official Wiki editors oversee such, the tomfoolery is reduced.
It is convenient and it makes for a degree of informative support. Other sources left out are more gravy to the meat.
But this book I haphazardly picked up at Half Price Books won't be used much by me:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wQ4XYDZVL.jpg)
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G.55 line drawings
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/fiat_g55_3v_zpsfd55a469.jpg)
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Reggiane Re.2005 line drawing
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/reggiane2005_3v_zps8af76c0c.jpg)
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Kawasaki Ki-45 line drawing
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/kawasaki_ki45_3v_zpsbd259eff.jpg)
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I acknowledge the lineage. I'm talking about modeling.
So am I. the 3D model of a Ki-84 and of a Ki-100 wouldn't share anything at all. Don't be deceived by a superficial similarity in a profile drawing. The Ki-100 would share almost 100% of the 3D model of a Ki-61-II from behind the firewall on back. Not sure how much it would share with a Ki-61-I.
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Nakajima B6N line drawing plus color template views
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/nakajima_b6n_zpscb8257e5.gif)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_2_a2_zpsb120dfda.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_6_b1_zps41bfa6d5.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_12_zpseb70e5c3.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_13_zps7570c507.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_15_zps274d778d.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_15_a1_zpseceecb4f.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_15_a2_zpsc80d9f6c.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_16_zps9a9e6e73.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_17_zps48b03031.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_18_zps0274d023.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_19_zpsc7b953a6.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_20_zps0317c165.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_21_zps8335170e.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/65_21_a1_zpscced20e3.jpg)
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Line drawing Junkers JU-52
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/ju52_3v_zps2c83039f.jpg)
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Option of Pe-8 for SB-2
Petlyakov TB-7/Pe-8 may be the better option
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/watermark.php?file=19473)
Though the write-up is kinda depressing (eh, good Russian drama)
The Petlyakov Pe-8 was a Soviet heavy bomber designed before World War II, and the only four-engine bomber the USSR built during the war. Produced in limited numbers, it was used to bomb Berlin in August 1941. It was also used for so-called 'morale raids' designed to raise the spirit of the Soviet people by exposing Axis vulnerabilities. Its primary mission, however, was to attack German airfields, rail yards and other rear-area facilities at night, although one was used to fly the People's Commissar of Foreign Affairs (Foreign Minister) Vyacheslav Molotov from Moscow to the United States in 1942.
Originally designated the TB-7, the aircraft was renamed the Pe-8 after its primary designer, Vladimir Petlyakov, died in a plane crash in 1942. Supply problems complicated the aircraft's production and the Pe-8s also had engine problems. As Soviet morale boosters, they were also high-value targets for the Luftwaffe's fighter pilots. The loss rate of these aircraft, whether from mechanical failure, friendly fire, or combat, doubled between 1942 and 1944.
By the end of the war, most of the surviving aircraft had been withdrawn from combat units. After the war, some were modified as transports for important officials, and a few others were used in various Soviet testing programs. Some supported the Soviet Arctic operations until the late 1950s.
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/profiles/p19473-petlyakov-pe-8.html
(http://www.myhobbylinks.com/images/RUSS-PETPE8.JPG)
(http://www.karaya.pl/thumbnails/max/product/f10c0868e584db737bee67e55b94b1b5885f2a3b.jpg)
(http://img2.ruliweb.daum.net/mypi/gup/75/3376_1.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-E_M7sV2M7-U/UCTbChyP6AI/AAAAAAAAIJg/uvXQvOexQe8/s1600/petlyakov-pe-8.jpg)
Wartime operational history
When Operation Barbarossa began on 22 June 1941, only the 2nd Squadron of the 14th Heavy Bomber Regiment (Russian: Tyazholy Bombardirovochnyy Avia Polk—TBAP), based at Boryspil[16] was equipped with Pe-8s, but was not ready for combat.[17][18] Two of its nine Pe-8s were destroyed by German air strikes shortly after the war began, before the Pe-8s were withdrawn out of reach in Kazan. Stalin ordered that the squadron be reformed into a regiment, and that it strike targets deep inside German territory. Theoretically, this tactic would boost Soviet morale by demonstrating the vulnerability of the enemy. The squadron was re-designated on 29 June as the 412th TBAP and began training for long-range missions.[16] On or about 27 July it was again renamed, this time as the 432nd TBAP.[19] On the evening of 10 August, eight M-40-engined Pe-8s of the 432nd TBAP, accompanied by Yermolaev Yer-2s of the 420th Long-Range Bomber Aviation Regiment (DBAP), attempted to bomb Berlin from Pushkino Airfield near Leningrad. One heavily loaded Pe-8 crashed immediately upon take off, after it lost an engine. Only four managed to reach Berlin, or its outskirts, and of those, only two returned to their base. The others landed elsewhere or crash-landed in Finland and Estonia. The aircraft of the commander of the 81st Long-Range Bomber Division, Combrig Mikhail Vodopianov, to which both regiments belonged, was attacked mistakenly by Polikarpov I-16s from Soviet Naval Aviation over the Baltic Sea and lost an engine; later, before he could reach Berlin, German flak punctured a fuel tank. He crash-landed his aircraft in southern Estonia.[20] Five more Pe-8s were lost during the operation, largely due to the unreliability of the M-40s.[21] Seven Pe-8s were lost during the month of August alone, rendering the regiment ineffective. During this period, the surviving aircraft were re-equipped with AM-35As, which gave them a shorter range, but a more reliable engine.[22]
By 1 October 1941, the regiment mustered fourteen Pe-8s after having been replenished by new aircraft from the factory.[17] It spent the rest of the year conducting night raids on Berlin, Königsberg, Danzig and as well as German-occupied cities in the Soviet Union. The regiment was re-designated as the 746th Separate Long-Range Aviation Regiment (Russian: Otdel'nyy Avia Polk Dahl'nevo Deystviya—OAPDD) on 3 December.[19] No aircraft were reported on hand two days later after this designation, but eleven were on strength on 18 March 1942.[17] During the winter of 1941–42, the regiment was assigned the destruction of a railroad bridge over the Volga River, near Kalinin. In April 1942, one aircraft flew diplomatic personnel and mail on a non-stop flight from Moscow to Great Britain.[22] This was a test run for a flight carrying Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov and his delegation from Moscow to London and then to Washington, D.C. and back, for negotiations to open a second front against Nazi Germany (19 May–13 June 1942). The flight crossed German-controlled airspace on the return trip without incident.[23] From August 1941 to May 1942, the regiment flew 226 sorties and dropped 606 tonnes (596 long tons; 668 short tons) of bombs. In the course of these missions, they lost 14 bombers, five in combat, and the rest from engine malfunction. The regiment received 17 Pe-8s as replacements.[22] Sixteen aircraft were on hand on 1 May 1942, but the number had only increased to seventeen two months later; the regiment was losing aircraft almost as fast as they were being replaced.[17]
The 890th Long-Range Aviation Regiment (Russian: Avia Polk Dahl'nevo Deystviya—APDD) was formed on 15 June 1942[24] and both regiments were used to bomb German-held transportation centers of, among others, Orel, Bryansk, Kursk and Poltava. The pace of activity increased and the regiments flew as many missions in August as they had in the first ten months of the war.[25] By the eve of the Soviet counterattack at Stalingrad, Operation Uranus, on 8 November the regiments had fourteen Pe-8s on hand.[17] Under the command of the 45th Long-Range Bomber Aviation Division (Russian: Dal'nebombardirovochnaya Aviatsionnaya Diviziya—DBAD), they did not participate in the Stalingrad air attacks.[26]
In 1943, from the division's primary airfield at Kratovo, southeast of Moscow, the regiments bombed transportation centers, airfields and troop concentrations. The railroad yard at Gomel was a favorite target and the regiment dropped approximately 606 tonnes (596 long tons; 668 short tons) of bombs there between February and September 1943. It is not clear if these sorties were made by Pe-8s alone or in combination with other aircraft. In addition, the regiment dropped the first FAB-5000 bomb on Königsberg in April 1943, continuing the pin-salamander attacks against targets deep in the German rear.[25] In May 1943, efforts shifted to disrupt the German concentration of forces for the Battle of Kursk. In one sortie, the 109 bombers of the 45th DBAD struck the rail junction at Orsha during the evening of 4 May, most of which were not Pe-8s; the German High Command reported the destruction of 300 rail wagons and three ammunition trains.[27]
By 1 July, the regiment had 18 Pe-8s for deployment during the early phase of the Battle of Kursk. The long-range aviation units continued to attack targets in the German rear areas at night, supporting the Soviet ground offensive in the Orel Bulge, called Operation Kutuzov, that began on 12 July. The Germans had transferred the nightfighters of the Fourth Group of Nightfighter Wing 5 (IV./Nachtjagdgeschwader 5), flying a mix of Junkers Ju 88 and Dornier Do 217 aircraft, to counter the Soviet raids near the Orel area. Initially, the night fighters were ineffective against the Soviet raids, until the deployment of their ground radar "eyes". Once the Germans had use of their radar, after the night of 17–18 July, Soviet losses skyrocketed. Although the Germans flew only fourteen sorties that night, they claimed eight kills. On the night of 20–21 July, Captain (Hauptmann) Heinrich Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein, commander of IV./NJG 5,[28] shot down three himself.[17] The exhaust plume of the ASh-82 engine may have been a contributing factor; the engines lacked flame dampening exhausts, making their plume visible from a distance.[25] Despite its losses, the 746th was re-designated as the 25th Long-Range Guards Aviation Regiment (GAPDD) on 18 September 1943 in recognition of its achievements.[19]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petlyakov_Pe-8
(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs30/i/2008/114/8/0/Petlyakov_Pe_8_by_araeld.jpg)
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Pe-8/Pe-8-M-100/images/Artwork-Petlyakov-TB-7-AM-34FRNW-M-100-1941-0B.jpg)
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Il-4, Pe-2 and Tu-2 would be my choices.
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Il-4, Pe-2 and Tu-2 would be my choices.
Medium bombers only, then. Bearing in mind the desire for level bombing.
Ok, deserves a look.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Il-4_side_view_Moscow.jpg/640px-Il-4_side_view_Moscow.jpg)
In 1938, the Ilyushin design bureau redesigned the Ilyushin DB-3 to ease production and improve performance, the revised version receiving the designation DB-3F (Forsirovannyi or "boosted"). The aircraft's internal structure, particularly the wings, was extensively changed, eliminating the need for hand finishing of the structure and with Duralumin replacing the large scale use of steel in the earlier aircraft.[2][3] The aircraft's fuel system was redesigned, increasing capacity while reducing the number of fuel tanks.[2] The fuselage nose was lengthened to give more room for the navigator/bomb-aimer while reducing drag. The prototype DB-3F, powered by the same 708 kW (949 hp) Tumansky M-87B engines of the DB-3M, was piloted on its maiden flight by Vladimir Kokkinaki on 21 May 1939.[4] It successfully passed through state acceptance tests and entered production in January 1940, with the 1,100 hp (820 kW) Tumansky M-88 quickly replacing the M-87.[5][6] The DB-3F was redesignated Il-4 in March 1942.[6] Some series had wooden outer wings and front fuselage to conserve metals, and throughout the production engines and fuel tanks were upgraded for more performance while keeping the same range. However the most notable change was the addition of larger defensive guns in the turret, using the 12.7 mm (0.5 in) UBT machine gun in place of the earlier 7.62 mm (0.3 in) weapons. In addition it was found that the gunners were attacked first, so blocks of armor were placed around the gunner positions.
All this extra weight wasn't offset by the newer engines however, and the Il-4 proved to be slower than the earlier versions at only 404 km/h (251 mph). An attempt to improve performance was made as the Il-6, adding large diesel engines and heavier armament. The engine proved unreliable and production was never started. The Il-4 remained in production until 1944, when just over 5,200 had been built.
Operational history
Although the Il-4 was only a medium bomber, it had the range to be used on strategic missions. The VVS wasn't terribly interested in this role, but nevertheless the Il-4 was used on several highly publicized raids against Berlin. Most would be used on much shorter range missions, often adding another 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) of bombs under the wings, in addition to the internal 2,500 kg (5,512 lb).
Finland bought four captured DB-3Fs from German stocks. These were given the Finnish Air Force serials DF-22 to DF-25 and flown from Bryansk, Russia to Finland (one aircraft, DF-22, was destroyed en route and crashed near Syeschtschinskaya airfield). The aircraft were later flown by No. 48 Sqn during 1943 (DF-23, DF-24 and DF-25), No. 46 Sqn during 1944 (DF-23 and DF-24) and No. 45 Sqn for a short time in 1945 (DF-23), until the last remaining serviceable aircraft went into depot on February 23, 1945. After the war, DF-25 got lost in snowbliz, landed on the ice and crashed into the woods in Öja near the city of Kokkola. Most parts of the plane were rescued and taken to a depot.[7]
^ a b Air International May 1986, p. 133.
^ Gunston 1995, pp. 100–101.
^ Gordon, Komissarov and Komissarov 2004, pp. 91–92.
^ Gordon, Komissarov and Komissarov 2004, p. 92.
^ a b Gunston 1995, p. 102.
^ Keskinen et al. 1982, p. 79,94.
Performance
Maximum speed: 410 km/h (255 mph; 221 kn) at 6,500 m (21,325 ft)
Range: 3,800 km (2,361 mi; 2,052 nmi) (max internal fuel), 2,600 km (1,404 nmi; 1,616 mi) with 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) bombs
Service ceiling: 8,700 m (28,543 ft)
Time to altitude: 13.6 min to 5,000 m (16,404 ft)
Armament
Guns: * 2 × 7.62 mm ShKAS machine guns (1 in nose, 1 in ventral hatch)
1 × 12.7 mm UBT machine gun in dorsal turret
Rockets: 2 × BETAB-750DS 305 mm rockets.[11]
Missiles: 1 × 940 kg (2,100 lb) Type 45-36 torpedo[10]
Bombs: Up to 2,700 kg (6,000 lb) of bombs or mines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-4
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Iljusin_Il-4.svg/593px-Iljusin_Il-4.svg.png)
Or
Pe-2 .... dive bomber
Or ....
Tupolev Tu-2
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Tu-2_at_the_China_Aviation_Museum.jpg/640px-Tu-2_at_the_China_Aviation_Museum.jpg)
The Tupolev Tu-2 (Development names ANT-58 and 103, NATO reporting name: Bat) was a twin-engine Soviet (high) speed daylight bomber (SDB) front line bomber (FB) aircraft of World War II vintage. The Tu-2 was tailored to meet a requirement for a high speed bomber or dive-bomber, with a large internal bomb load, and speed similar to that of a single seat fighter. Designed to challenge the German Junkers Ju 88, the Tu-2 proved comparable, and was produced in torpedo, interceptor and reconnaissance versions. The Tu-2 was one of the outstanding combat aircraft of World War II and it played a key role in the Red Army's final offensives.[1]
Design and development
In 1937 Andrei Tupolev, along with many Soviet designers at the time, was arrested on trumped-up charges of activities against the State. Despite the actions of the Soviet government, he was considered important to the war effort and following his imprisonment, he was placed in charge of a team that was to design military aircraft. Designed as Samolyot (Russian: "aircraft") 103, the Tu-2 was based on earlier ANT-58, ANT-59 and ANT-60 light bomber prototypes.[2] Essentially an upscaled and more powerful ANT-60 powered by AM-37 engines, the first prototype was completed at Factory N156, and made its first test flight on 29 January 1941, piloted by Mikhail Nukhtinov.[2] Mass production began in September 1941, at Omsk Aircraft Factory Number 166, with the first aircraft reaching combat units in March 1942. Modifications were made based on combat experience, and Plant Number 166 built a total of 80 aircraft. The AM-37 engine was abandoned to concentrate efforts on the AM-38F for the Il-2, which required Tupolev to redesign the aircraft for an available engine. Modifications of this bomber took ANT-58 through ANT-69 variants. A further 2527 aircraft were built at Kazan, with these modifications. Production ceased in 1951 after a total of some 3,000 aircraft were delivered to various Soviet Bloc air forces.[1]
Operational history
Built from 1941 to 1948, the Tu-2 was the USSR's second most important twin-engine bomber (the first being the Pe-2). The design brought Andrei Tupolev back into favour after a period of detention. It was highly effective, being faster and more nimble, as well as having a greater bomb load and range, than virtually all medium bombers in service during the war with any army. Crews were universally happy with their Tupolevs. Pilots could maneuver like fighters and they were fast and tough enough to survive heavy damage.[3] The Tu-2 remained in service in the USSR until 1950.
Some surplus Tu-2s were provided to the Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force for use in the Chinese Civil War. Some Chinese Tu-2s were shot down by British and American airmen during the Korean War. In the 1958–1962 counter-riot actions in Qinghai-Tibet Plateau covering Qinghai, Tibet, southern Gansu, and western Sichuan, Chinese PLAAF Tu-2s took on the roles of ground-attack, reconnaissance and liaison. The Chinese Tu-2s were retired at the end of 1970s.
After World War II, the Tu-2 proved to be an ideal test aircraft for various powerplants, including the first generation of Soviet jet engines.[1]
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Tupolev_Tu-2.svg/614px-Tupolev_Tu-2.svg.png)
Performance
Maximum speed: 521 km/h (281 kn, 325 mph)
Range: 2,020 km (1,090 nmi, 1,260 mi)
Service ceiling: 9,000 m (29,528 ft)
Rate of climb: 8.2 m/s (1,610 ft/min)
Wing loading: 217 kg/m˛ (45 lb/ft˛)
Power/mass: 260 W/kg (0.16 hp/lb)
Armament
Guns:
2 × 20 mm (0.79 in) fixed forward-firing ShVAK cannon in the wings
3 × 7.62 mm (0.30 in) rear-firing ShKAS machine guns (later replaced by 12.7 mm (0.50 in) Berezin UB machine guns) in the canopy, dorsal and ventral hatches.
Bombs: 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) internally and 2,270 kg (5,000 lb) externally
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Between those 3, I'd say the TU-2 is the most important based on the best is better rule.
But bear in mind I also recommended the Pe-2 alongside. Guess if 2 VVS medium bombers are
added, who could have issue with the best two?
(Although, I have to admit, the SB-2, though older and more antiquated, opens up a bomber
for SCW in the AvA and events. ;) )
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Petljakov_Pe-2.svg/655px-Petljakov_Pe-2.svg.png)
Pe-2 for comparison with the TU-2.
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just realized you missed one of the most important early war russian fighters...the mig-3
Specifications (Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3) [edit]
Data from MiG: Fifty Years of Secret Aircraft Design[32]
General characteristics
Crew: One
Length: 8.25 m (27 ft 1 in)
Wingspan: 10.20 m (33 ft 5 in)
Height: 3.30 m (10 ft 9⅞ in)
Wing area: 17.44 m˛ (188 ft˛)
Airfoil: Clark YH
Empty weight: 2,699 kg (5,965 lb)
Loaded weight: 3,355 kg (7,415 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Mikulin AM-35A liquid-cooled V-12, 993 kW (1,350 hp)
Performance
Maximum speed: 640 km/h (398 mph, 346 knots) at 7,800 m (25,600 ft)
Maximum speed at sea level : 505 km/h (314 mph, 273 knots)
Combat range: 820 km (510 mi,443 NM)
Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,400 ft)
Wing loading: 155 kg/m˛ (39.3 lb/ft˛)
Power/mass: 0.30 kW/kg (0.18 hp/lb)
Climb to 8,000 m (26,250 ft): 10.28 min
Armament
1 × 12.7 mm UBS machine gun
2 × 7.62 mm ShKAS machine guns.
2 × 100 kg (220 lb) bombs, 2 spray containers for chemicals, gas or flammable liquids or 6 × 82 mm RS-82 rockets
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/datadec1.jpg)
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just realized you missed one of the most important early war russian fighters...the mig-3
Specifications (Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3) [edit]
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/datadec1.jpg)
Not 'missed' ..... 'avoided.' :D
"The MiG-3 was difficult to fly in peacetime and much more so in combat. It had been designed for high-altitude combat but combat over the Eastern Front was generally at lower altitudes where it was inferior to the German Messerschmitt Bf 109 as well as most modern Soviet fighters. It was also pressed into service as a fighter-bomber during the autumn of 1941 but it was equally unsuited for this. Over time the survivors were concentrated in the PVO, where its disadvantages mattered less, the last being withdrawn from service before the end of the war."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-3
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the rest of the story Arlo...the rest of the story.
Even with the MiG-3's limitations, Aleksandr Pokryshkin, the third-leading Soviet, and Allied, ace of the war, with 53 official air victories (plus six shared), recorded a number of those victories while flying a MiG-3 at the beginning of the war. He later recalled:
“Its designers rarely succeeded in matching both the fighter's flight characteristics with its firepower… the operational advantage of the MiG-3 seemed to be obscured by its certain defects. However, these advantages could undoubtedly be exploited by a pilot able to discover them”.
most of the problems were the pilots who were used to flying i-152 and i-513s...at 4000+ meters it was fine and with more than 6,000 built i'd say that was fairly significant until it was replaced by the yaks.
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the rest of the story Arlo...the rest of the story.
most of the problems were the pilots who were used to flying i-152 and i-513s...at 4000+ meters it was fine and with more than 6,000 built i'd say that was fairly significant until it was replaced by the yaks.
Ok ... 15 new models. :D
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now if i had said lagg-3 then a fish slap would have been called for...
(http://cassandraparkin.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/fish-slap.gif?w=300&h=231)
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bHSVCs9rX0A/R2N8CyF5LyI/AAAAAAAACNs/fBboPLjfEtY/s400/fish%2Bslapping%2Bdance.gif)
(http://data7.blog.de/media/528/6014528_036721b453_m.gif)
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(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/wwii/aircraft/comparison-charts/bomber-production-comparison.png)
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/aircraft/bomber/boeing-b-29-superfortress.asp
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Arlo,
Put the Wellington on that list as well. SM.79 would be nice too.
It is also missing the Mosquito which we already have a version of.
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Vickers Wellington
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Vickers_Wellington.jpg)
Operational History (History a key word here)
The first RAF bombing attack of the war was made by Wellingtons of No. 9 and No. 149 Squadrons, along with Bristol Blenheims, on German shipping at Brunsbüttel on 4 September 1939. During this raid, the two Wellingtons became the first aircraft shot down on the Western Front. Numbers 9, 37 and 149 Squadrons saw action on 18 December 1939 on a mission against German shipping on the Schillig Roads and Wilhelmshaven. Luftwaffe fighters destroyed 12 of the bombers and badly damaged three others; thus highlighting the aircraft's vulnerability to attacking fighters, having neither self-sealing fuel tanks nor sufficient defensive armament. In particular, while the aircraft's nose and tail turrets protected against attacks from the front and rear, the Wellington had no defences against attacks from the beam and above, as it had not been believed that such attacks were possible owing to the high speed of aircraft involved.[5] As a consequence, Wellingtons were switched to night operations and participated in the first night raid on Berlin on 25 August 1940. In the first 1,000-aircraft raid on Cologne, on 30 May 1942, 599 out of 1,046 aircraft were Wellingtons (101 of them were flown by Polish aircrew). With Bomber Command, Wellingtons flew 47,409 operations, dropped 41,823 tons (37,941 tonnes) of bombs and lost 1,332 aircraft in action.
Coastal Command Wellingtons carried out anti-submarine duties and sank their first enemy vessel on 6 July 1942. DWI versions (see below) fitted with a 48 ft (14.63 m) diameter metal hoop were used for exploding enemy mines by generating a powerful magnetic field as it passed over them. In 1944, Wellingtons of Coastal Command were deployed to Greece, and performed various support duties during the RAF interference in the Greek Civil War. A few Wellingtons were operated by the Hellenic Air Force.
While the Wellington was superseded in the European Theatre, it remained in operational service for much of the war in the Middle East and in 1942, Wellingtons based in India became the RAF's first long-range bomber operating in the Far East. It was particularly effective with the South African Air Force in North Africa. This versatile aircraft also served in anti-submarine duties with 26 Squadron SAAF based in Takoradi, Gold Coast (now Ghana).
In late 1944, a radar-equipped Wellington was modified for use by the RAF's Fighter Interception Unit as what would now be described as an Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft.[6] It operated at an altitude of some 4,000 ft (1,219 m) over the North Sea to control de Havilland Mosquito fighters intercepting Heinkel He 111 bombers flying from Dutch airbases and carrying out airborne launches of the V-1 flying bomb.
The Wellington is listed in the appendix to the novel KG 200 as one flown by the German secret operations unit KG 200, which also tested, evaluated and sometimes clandestinely operated captured enemy aircraft during the Second World War.[7]
^ Richards 1953, p. 46.
^ Jackson 2007, p. 217.
^ Gilman and Clive 1978, p. 314.
Performance
Maximum speed: 235 mph (378 km/h) at 15,500 ft (4,730 m)
Range: 2,550 mi (2,217 nmi, 4,106 km)
Service ceiling: 18,000 ft (5,490 m)
Rate of climb: 1,120 ft/min (5.7 m/s)
Wing loading: 34 lb/ft˛ (168 kg/m˛)
Power/mass: 0.08 hp/lb (0.13 kW/kg)
Armament
Guns: 6-8× .303 Browning machine guns:
2× in nose turret
2× in tail turret[13]
2× in waist positions [14]
Bombs: 4,500 lb (2,041 kg) bombs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellington
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Vickers_Wellington.svg/1000px-Vickers_Wellington.svg.png)
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Douglas A-26 Invader
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/B-26.jpg)
The A-26 was an unusual design for an attack bomber of the early 1940s period, as it was designed as a single-pilot aircraft (sharing this characteristic with the RAF's de Havilland Mosquito, among others). The aircraft was designed by Edward Heinemann, Robert Donovan, and Ted R. Smith.[5] The project aerodynamicist on the program was A.M.O. Smith,[6] who designed the wing making use of the then-new NACA 65-215 laminar flow airfoil.[7]
The Douglas XA-26 prototype (AAC Ser. No. 41-19504) first flew on 10 July 1942 at Mines Field, El Segundo, with test pilot Benny Howard at the controls. Flight tests revealed excellent performance and handling, but there were problems with engine cooling which led to cowling changes and omission of the propeller spinners on production aircraft, plus modification of the nose landing gear after repeated collapses during testing.[8]
A-26B-15-DL (41-39186) during field testing with 553d Bomb Squadron, 386th Bomb Group.
The A-26 was originally built in two different configurations. The A-26B had a "solid" nose, which originally could be equipped with a combination of anything from .50 caliber machine guns, 37mm auto cannon, 20mm or even a 75mm pack howitzer, but normally the solid nose version housed six (or later eight) .50 caliber machine guns, officially termed the "all-purpose nose", later commonly known as the "six-gun nose" or "eight-gun nose". The A-26C's "glass" nose, officially termed the "Bombardier nose", contained a Norden bombsight for medium altitude precision bombing. The A-26C nose section included two fixed M-2 guns, later replaced by underwing gun packs or internal guns in the wings.[9]
After about 1,570 production aircraft, three guns were installed in each wing, coinciding with the introduction of the "eight-gun nose" for A-26Bs, giving some configurations as many as 14 .50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns in a fixed forward mount. An A-26C nose section could be exchanged for an A-26B nose section, or vice versa, in a few man-hours, thus physically (and officially) changing the designation and operational role. The "flat-topped" canopy was changed in late 1944 after about 820 production aircraft, to a clamshell style with greatly improved visibility.[10][11]
Alongside the pilot in an A-26B, a crew member typically served as navigator and gun loader for the pilot-operated nose guns. In an A-26C, that crew member served as navigator and bombardier, and relocated to the nose section for the bombing phase of an operation. A small number of A-26Cs were fitted with dual flight controls, some parts of which could be disabled in flight to allow limited access to the nose section. A tractor-style "jump seat" was located behind the "navigator's seat." In most missions, a third crew member in the rear gunner's compartment operated the remotely-controlled dorsal and ventral gun turrets, with access to and from the cockpit only possible via the bomb bay when that was empty.[12]
Operational History (WWII)
Pacific
The Douglas company began delivering the production model A-26B in August 1943 with the new bomber first seeing action with the Fifth Air Force in the Southwest Pacific theater on 23 June 1944, when they bombed Japanese-held islands near Manokwari.[13] The pilots in the 3rd Bomb Group's 13th Squadron, "The Grim Reapers", who received the first four A-26s for evaluation, found the view from the cockpit to be poor for low level attack.
General George Kenney, commander of the Far East Air Forces stated that, "We do not want the A-26 under any circumstances as a replacement for anything."[14] Until changes could be made, the 3d Bomb Group requested additional Douglas A-20 Havocs, although both types were used in composite flights.[15] The 319th Bomb Group worked up on the A-26 in March 1945, joining the initial 3rd BG, with the 319th flying until 12 August 1945. The A-26 operations wound down in mid-August 1945 with only a few dozen missions flown.[15]
Europe
Douglas needed better results from the Invader's second combat test, so A-26s began arriving in Europe in late September 1944 for assignment to the Ninth Air Force. The initial deployment involved 18 aircraft and crews assigned to the 553d Squadron of the 386th Bomb Group. This unit flew its first mission on 6 September 1944. No aircraft were lost on the eight test missions, and the Ninth Air Force announced that it was happy to replace all of its A-20s and B-26s with the A-26 Invader.
The first group to fully convert to the A-26B was 416th Bombardment Group with which it entered combat on 17 November, and the 409th Bombardment Group, whose A-26s became operational in late November.[16] Due to a shortage of A-26C variants, the groups flew a combined A-20/A-26 unit until deliveries of the glass-nose version caught up. Besides bombing and strafing, tactical reconnaissance and night interdiction missions were undertaken successfully. In contrast to the Pacific-based units, the A-26 was well received by pilots and crew alike, and by 1945, the 9th AF had flown 11,567 missions, dropping 18,054 tons of bombs, recording seven confirmed kills while losing 67 aircraft.[16]
In Italy the Twelfth Air Force's 47th Bomb Group also received the A-26, starting in January 1945. They were used against German transport links, but also for direct support and interdiction against tanks and troop concentrations in the Po valley in the final campaigns in Italy.
Performance
Maximum speed: 355 mph (308 kn, 570 km/h)
Range: 1,400 mi (1,200 nmi, 2,300 km)
Service ceiling: 22,000 ft (6,700 m)
Rate of climb: 1,250 ft/min (6.4 m/s)
Wing loading: 51 lb/ft˛ (250 kg/m˛)
Power/mass: 0.145 hp/lb (108 W/kg)
Armament
Guns:
Up to 8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in the nose (1,600 rpg)
8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns paired in four optional underwing pods
2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled dorsal turret
2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled ventral turret
Bombs: 6,000 lb (2,700 kg) capacity - 4,000 lb (1,800 kg) in the bomb bay plus 2,000 lb (910 kg) carried externally on underwing hardpoints
^ a b Francillon 1979
^ Smith, A.M.O., "High-Lift Aerodynamics; the 37th Wright Brothers Lecture", AIAA paper 74-939, reprinted in the AIAA Journal of Aircraft, Vol. 12 No. 6, June 1975.
^ Lednicer, David. The Incomplete Guide to Airfoil Usage. Champaign, Illinois: UIUC Applied Aerodynamics Group, 2010. Retrieved: 18 May 2011
^ Mesko 1980, p. 5.
^ Borland, Hal. "Plane of Many Faces." Popular Science, July 1945.
^ Winchester 2004, p. 75.
^ a b c d Thompson 2002
^ Johnsen 1999
^ "June 1944." 43rd Bomb Group Association via kensmen.com, 1999. Retrieved: 2 August 2007.
^ O'Leary 2002, p. 42.
^ a b Mesko 1980, p. 17.
^ a b Mesko 1980, p.12.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-26_Invader
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/B-26_Invader_Silh.jpg)
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Bristol Beaufighter
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Bristol_Type_156_Beaufighter_ExCC.jpg)
Operational Service
By fighter standards, the Beaufighter Mk.I was rather heavy and slow. It had an all-up weight of 16,000 lb (7,000 kg) and a maximum speed of only 335 mph (540 km/h) at 16,800 ft (5,000 m). Nevertheless, this was all that was available at the time, as further production of the otherwise excellent Westland Whirlwind had already been stopped due to problems with production of its Rolls-Royce Peregrine engines.
The first Beaufighter was delivered to RAF Tangmere for trials with the Fighter Interception Unit on 12 August 1940, and the first operational machines were received by 29 Squadron and 604 Squadron on 2 September.[8]
The Beaufighter came off the production line at almost exactly the same time as the first British Airborne Interception (AI) Night fighter radar sets. With the four 20 mm cannon mounted in the lower fuselage, the nose could accommodate the radar antennas, and the general spaciousness of the fuselage enabled the AI equipment to be fitted easily. Even loaded to 20,000 lb (9,100 kg) the aircraft was fast enough to catch German bombers. By early 1941, it was an effective counter to Luftwaffe night raids. The various early models of the Beaufighter soon commenced service overseas, where its ruggedness and reliability soon made the aircraft popular with crews although it was heavy on the controls and not easy to fly, good landings being a particular challenge.[citation needed]
A night-fighter Mk VIF was supplied to squadrons in March 1942, equipped with AI Mark VIII radar. As the faster de Havilland Mosquito took over in the night fighter role in mid to late 1942, the heavier Beaufighters made valuable contributions in other areas such as anti-shipping, ground attack and long-range interdiction in every major theatre of operations.
In the Mediterranean, the USAAF's 414th, 415th, 416th and 417th Night Fighter Squadrons received 100 Beaufighters in the summer of 1943, achieving their first victory in July 1943. Through the summer the squadrons conducted both daytime convoy escort and ground-attack operations, but primarily flew defensive interception missions at night. Although the Northrop P-61 Black Widow fighter began to arrive in December 1944, USAAF Beaufighters continued to fly night operations in Italy and France until late in the war.
By the autumn of 1943, the Mosquito was available in enough numbers to replace the Beaufighter as the primary night fighter of the RAF. By the end of the war some seventy pilots serving with RAF units had become aces while flying Beaufighters.
At least one captured Beaufighter was operated by the German Luftwaffe – a photograph exists of the aircraft in flight, with German markings.[9]
Performance
Maximum speed: 320 mph (280 kn, 515 km/h) at 10,000 ft (3,050 m)
Range: 1,750 mi (1,520 nmi, 2,816 km)
Service ceiling: 19,000 ft (5,795 m) without torpedo
Rate of climb: 1,600 ft/min (8.2 m/s) without torpedo
Armament
4 × 20 mm Hispano Mk III cannon (60 rpg) in nose, and depending on role;
Fighter Command Variant
4 × .303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns (outer starboard wing)
2 × .303 in (7.7 mm) machine gun (outer port wing)
8 × RP-3 "60 lb" (27 kg) rockets or 2× 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs
Coastal Command Variant
1 × manually operated Vickers GO or .303 in (7.7 mm) Browning for observer
1 × 18 in (450 mm) torpedo
^ Bowyer 2010, p. 262.
^ Roba, 2009 p. 140.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Beaufighter
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Bristol_Beaufighter.svg/1000px-Bristol_Beaufighter.svg.png)
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(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003a_zps4e0fbbcc.png)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003b_zps05b4e31d.png)
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Douglas TBD Devastator
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Douglas_TBD-1_VT-6_in_flight_c1938.jpeg/792px-Douglas_TBD-1_VT-6_in_flight_c1938.jpeg)
Operational History
In the early days of the Pacific war, the TBD acquitted itself well during February and March 1942, with TBDs from Enterprise and Yorktown attacking targets in the Marshall and Gilbert Islands, Wake Island and Marcus Island, while TBDs from Yorktown and Lexington struck Japanese shipping off New Guinea on 10 March.[13] In the Battle of the Coral Sea Devastators helped sink the Shōhō on 7 May, but failed to hit the Shōkaku the next day.[14]
Problems were discovered with the Mark 13 torpedo at this point. Many were seen to hit the target yet fail to explode; there was also a tendency to run deeper than the set depth. It took over a year for the problems to be corrected. These problems were not fixed by the time of the Battle of Midway on 4 June 1942.
At Midway, a total of 41 Devastators, a majority of the type still operational, were launched from Hornet, Enterprise and Yorktown to attack the Japanese fleet.[15] The sorties were not well coordinated, in part because Rear Admiral Raymond A. Spruance ordered a strike on the enemy carriers immediately after they were discovered, rather than spending time assembling a well-coordinated attack involving the different types of aircraft - fighters, bombers, torpedo planes - reasoning that attacking the Japanese would prevent a counterstrike against the US carriers. The TBDs from Hornet and Enterprise lost contact with their fighter escort and started their attacks without fighter protection.[16][17]
The Devastator proved to be a death trap for its crews: slow and scarcely maneuverable, with light defensive weaponry and poor armor relative to the weapons of the time; its speed on a glide-bombing approach was a mere 200 mph (320 km/h), making it easy prey for fighters and defensive guns alike. The aerial torpedo could not even be released at speeds above 115 mph (185 km/h).[18] Torpedo delivery requires a long, straight-line attack run, making the aircraft vulnerable, and the slow speed of the aircraft made them easy targets for the Mitsubishi A6M Zeros. Only four TBDs made it back to Enterprise, none to Hornet and two to Yorktown, without scoring a torpedo hit.[19]
Nonetheless, their sacrifice was not completely in vain, as several TBDs managed to get within a few ship-lengths range of their targets before dropping their torpedoes, being close enough to be able to strafe the enemy ships and force the Japanese carriers to make sharp evasive maneuvers.[20] By obliging the Japanese to keep their flight decks clear to continually cycle and reinforce their combat air patrol, they prevented any Japanese counter-attack against the American carriers, just as Spruance had anticipated. This window of opportunity was exploited by the late-arriving Douglas SBD Dauntless dive bombers led by Lieutenant Commander C. Wade McClusky and Max Leslie, which dive-bombed and fatally damaged three of the four Japanese carriers about one hour after the first TBD torpedo attacks had developed.[21]
The Navy immediately withdrew the TBD from front-line units after Midway; in any case, there were only 39 aircraft left. They remained in service briefly in the Atlantic and in training squadrons until 1944. The original prototype finished its career at NAS Norman, Oklahoma, and the last TBD in the U.S. Navy was used by the Commander of Fleet Air Activities-West Coast. When his TBD was scrapped in November 1944,[22] there were no more.[23] None survived the war and there are none known to exist on dry land today.[24]
In fairness to the Devastator, the newer TBF Avengers were similarly ineffective in 1942, losing five out of six aircraft without scoring a hit at Midway. The Avengers' only successes in 1942 would be against the light carrier Ryūjō and the battleship Hiei [N 3][25] In the initial part of the Pacific War, the poor performances of US torpedo bombers was due to the vulnerability of that type in general against AAA fire and defending fighters, plus the inexperience of American pilots and lack of coordinated fighter cover, as well as serious defects in US torpedoes which were not discovered and corrected until the fall of 1943.[6][15] It took growing American air superiority, improved attack coordination, and more experienced pilots, before the Avengers were able to successfully accomplish their roles in subsequent battles against Japanese surface forces.[26]
After the debacle at Midway, the surviving TBD Devastators in VT-4 and VT-7 remained in service for a short time before being shipped back to the United States where the aircraft were relegated to training duties for pilots and mechanics or were destroyed following use as instructional airframes for fire-fighting training.[27] By late 1944, no TBD Devastators were left in the US Navy inventory.[28]
Performance
Maximum speed: 206 mph (179 knots, 331 km/h) at 8,000 ft (2,400 m)
Cruise speed: 128 mph (111 knots, 206 km/h)
Range: 435 mi (700 km) (378 nmi, 700 km) with Mk XIII Torpedo, 716 mi (623 nmi, 1,152 km) with 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs
Service ceiling: 19,500 ft (5,945 m)
Rate of climb: 720 ft/min (3.7 m/s)
Armament
Guns:
1 × forward-firing 0.30 in (7.62 mm) or 0.50 (12.7 mm) machine gun
1 × 0.30 in (7.62 mm) machine gun in rear cockpit (later increased to two)
Bombs:
1 × Mark XIII torpedo or
1 × 1,000 lb (454 kg) bomb or
2 × 500 lb (227 kg) bombs or
12 × 100 lb (45 kg) bombs
^ Air International March 1990, p. 155.
^ Doll 1967, pp. 7–8.
^ a b "USS Enterprise CV-6: The Most Decorated Ship of the Second World War, p. 2." cv6.org. Retrieved: 11 April 2010.
^ Cressman et al. 1990, pp. 84–89.
^ Parshall and Tulley 2005, pp. 206–215.
^ Jackson and Doll 1973, p. 5.
^ Buell 1987, p. 494.
^ "USS Enterprise CV-6: The Most Decorated Ship of the Second World War, p. 3." cv6.org. Retrieved: 7 June 2010.
^ Parshall and Tully 2005, pp. 215–216, 226–227.
^ Ginter 2006, p. 91.
^ Jackson and Doll 1973, p. 43.
^ Champlin, Doug. "Douglas TBD-1." nwrain.net. Retrieved: 11 April 2010.
^ Mondey 2006, p. 152.
^ "'Sinking the Supership'." PBS-Nova. Retrieved: 11 April 2010.
^ Doll 1967, p. 34.
^ Tillman and Lawson 2001, p. 61.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TBD_Devastator
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/767/pics/3_10.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/TBD_Devastator.svg/2000px-TBD_Devastator.svg.png)
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what is wrong with you Arlo? you keep forgetting the french...and the romanians.
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Ikarus IK-2
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/IK-2.jpg)
Operational history
Based upon results of preliminary testing, the Royal Yugoslav Air Force ordered a production batch of 12 IK-2 fighters, which were all delivered in 1937. When German forces invaded Yugoslavia on 6 April 1941, the only unit of the Yugoslav Air Force armed with the IK-2 was the 4th fighter regiment, composed of 33rd and 34th air force groups stationed at Bosanski Aleksandrovac airfield, in northwest Bosnia. The 4th fighter regiment was equipped with 18 Hawker Hurricanes and eight Ikarus IK-2 fighter aircraft.
Rovine airfield, situated north of Banja Luka, was the base of the Yugoslav 8th bomber regiment and its 24 Bristol Blenheim I bombers. During a German attack on the base on 7 April, five IK-2s together with five Hawker Hurricanes engaged German Messerschmitt 109 fighter aircraft. In the ensuing dogfight, the Yugoslav fighters managed to repel the 27 attacking German fighters, destroying two in the process at the cost of two Hurricanes and one IK-2 [1]. For the rest of the short conflict IK-2s were used for strafing advancing German columns and on several occasions they scrambled in pursuit of German reconnaissance aircraft, but to no effect. At the end of the brief campaign the four surviving IK-2s were overhauled at the Ikarus aircraft plant in Zemun before being transferred by the Germans to the newly formed Air Force of the Independent State of Croatia.
Performance
Maximum speed: 435 km/h (270 mph; 235 kn) at 5,000 m (16,404 ft)
Cruising speed: 250 km/h (155 mph; 135 kn)
Range: 700 km (435 mi; 378 nmi)
Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,370 ft)
Wing loading: 107 kg/m˛ (22 lb/sq ft)
Armament
1 × 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS.404 cannon with 60 rounds
2 × 7.92 mm Darne machine guns
http://simviation.com//fsdcbainik2.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikarus_IK-2
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/343/pics/77_3.jpg)
Mmmmmno ... I'm not updating for this. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P.S. ... the 4 additional models added to the 14 would significantly add time to this plane list becoming a reality.
But we knew this. ;)
I wonder .... 18 planes. Let's say 2 planes per update and 2 months per update ..... (optimism .... the alter-alternate reality)
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Oh .... and if I had my way, the planes would be added in this order:
1: Italian planes
2: Russian planes
3: Japanese planes
4. British planes
5. German planes
6. American planes
:D
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aaand again... :neener:
what is wrong with you Arlo? you keep forgetting the french...and the romanians.[/quote]
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aaand again... :neener:
what is wrong with you Arlo? you keep forgetting the french...and the romanians.
Alas ... the plane chart has no place for either. Unless we divide
up the League of Nations between the Russians and the Germans.
:D
Aces High and the nationality footprint of its plane sets
By Arlo
How big an impact does nationality play in Aces High II? In the MA it's zero (unless someone decides to
argue for the modeling of the A-26 versus the Pe-2 and they let their own national pride stand in the way).
In events it's everything. Events are all about depicting famous battles of WWII with nations being represented
on one side or another. Aces High II currently models 92 aircraft and 17 vehicles (if we count the Elco PT boat).
Those aircraft and vehicles are divided amongst 6 nationalities; The United States, Great Britain (and Commonwealth -
further representing Canada, Australia and New Zealand), Germany, Italy, Japan and the Soviet Union. France, Vichy
or otherwise, is not represented (possibly due to only one or two instances in the war where their forces had any
true impact).
So let's take a look at the current footprints.
The U.S. plane and vehicle set
The largest, by far, is the United States. This isn't entirely surprising, given the production capability and advancements
made during the war. Game-wise, the U.S. has 35 aircraft (including variants) comprised of fighters, attack planes and
bombers from every theater of WWII, 8 vehicles and 1 PT boat. This includes the best heavy strategic bomber of the war,
some of the best fighters of the war and even early war planes for events staged in that time frame.
The German plane and vehicle set
The next largest is Germany. Historically, their production was already geared up to high capacity before the United States
entered the war. Game-wise, Germany has 21 aircraft (including variants) comprised of fighters, attack planes and bombers
encompassing all but the Pacific Theater of war. They also have the only jet and rocket aircraft in the game; the Me-262,
the Me-163 and the Ar-234. This isn't anymore surprising than the U.S. production rate, given the focus on research and
development made by Germany in the 30s and 40s. Germany also has the best tanks in the game for the same reason. Like
the U.S., in Aces High II the German plane/vehicle set is robust and well represented.
The British plane and vehicle set
In Aces High II, Great Britain has 17 aircraft (variants included) comprised of fighters, attack planes and bombers from every
theater of the war and, technically, it shares one vehicle with the U.S. (the Firefly variant of the Sherman). Until the B-29 was
added, the Lancaster heavy bomber had the largest payload (it's still the largest unperked payload). With a plane set
that includes almost every variant of the Spitfire that flew as well as multiple variants of the Hurricane and the Tempest and
Typhoon, it can be said, arguably, that the British have some of the best fighter and attack planes in the game. Likewise,
this represents a rather robust plane set.
The Soviet plane and vehicle set
In Aces High II, the Soviet Union has 6 aircraft (one of which is a variant) and 2 vehicles (also one of which is a variant)that
fought, primarily, in the European Theater of operations (though some historical exceptions may be found or believably
portrayed). The aircraft are primarily fighter and fighter-bombers with it's sole 'bomber' being more of a ground attack plane.
While this set has some good fighters in it (and, arguably the best dive bomber/attack plane) it has some gaps to fill. The
reason for this is the same reason I still give the Soviets the third largest footprint in the game - lend lease. If lend lease is
taken into account then P-40, P-39, Hurricane, Spitfire Mk V, P-40, Spitfire Mk IX, B-25 and Boston can be added, increasing
the aircraft footprint to 14 (and if we take into consideration the M-4 Sherman and the M-16 the vehicle footprint doubles).
The addition of the MiG-3, Yak-3, Pe-2 and Tu-2 would enhance historical events in Aces High.
The Japanese plane set
In Aces High II, the Japanese have 10 aircraft comprised of fighters, fighter-bombers, attack planes and bombers (including
variants) that fought in the Pacific and China-Burma theaters. The early Japanese plane set is fairly well represented, as well
as some of the later fighters. Their two main level bombers are also represented. Japan has no vehicles. The Japanese plane
set could use some mid-war and late-war additions. There may be some argument to add their most commonly used tank
off the mainland, as well.
The Italian plane set
This is the smallest plane set in Aces High, with only 2 fighters represented. Though the Italians don't historically represent
the largest manufacturing or research and development capability in the war, there are more fighter models needed as well
as at least two (or more) bombers and attack planes that could give this nationality a more realistic game footprint. As far
as vehicles go, there's more reason to add one or two for the Italians than there is for the Japanese.
Other national footprints .... unseen
There's been an argument, by some, to model French aircraft (as well as other nationalities). Quite frankly, when it comes to
events, there's really only portrayal of 'blitzkrieg' invasions where these nations and their planes/vehicles would come to play.
The only potential exception I could see would the the Finnish Wars, since Finland made a pretty good accounting of itself.
Still, I can't see the non-Finnish player base getting that much behind it since, much like the Russian lend-lease planes, Finland
has planes in the game that can be historically skinned and accurately used in events.
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Alas ... the plane chart has no place for either. Unless we divide
up the League of Nations between the Russians and the Germans.
:D
<snip>
Other national footprints .... unseen
There's been an argument, by some, to model French aircraft (as well as other nationalities). Quite frankly, when it comes to
events, there's really only portrayal of 'blitzkrieg' invasions where these nations and their planes/vehicles would come to play.
The only potential exception I could see would the the Finnish Wars, since Finland made a pretty good accounting of itself.
Still, I can't see the non-Finnish player base getting that much behind it since, much like the Russian lend-lease planes, Finland
has planes in the game that can be historically skinned and accurately used in events.
now now, if you're going to do it for one, you have to do it for all...and these 2 are well deserving, more so than the early biplanes you thought would be a good idea.
iar-80/81
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/IAR_80%2C_side_view.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_80 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_80)
Dewoitine D.520
(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/france/aircraft/fighter/dewoitine-d-520-fighter/dewoitine-d-520-fighter-03.png)
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/france/aircraft/fighter/dewoitine-d-520.asp (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/france/aircraft/fighter/dewoitine-d-520.asp)
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Ikarus IK-2
We would rather have the Ik-3 Arlo, 12 made of each.
(http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/belgra1.jpg)
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/ik3/ik3-2.jpg)
Wall of text... this how ya do it?
Furious because a small nation resisted the almighty German war machine Hitler ordered the attack on Yugoslavia. In Hitler's 'Order 25' the role for Luftwaffe was clear: the destruction of JKRV (Jugoslovensko Kraljevsko Ratno Vazduhoplovstvo - Yugoslovian Royal Air Force) and the bombardment of Belgrade.
For Operation 'MARITA', against Yugoslavia and Greece, the Luftwaffe dropped 1090 aircrafts (Luftflotte 4) and Germans were supported also by additinal 660 Italian and some Hungarian planes. JKRV was able to resist by totally 470 first line aircrafts, but only 269 planes were airworthy modern types. In first day of attack Luftwaffe concentrated mostly on Yugoslavian airbases, destroying a part of JKRV force before take off. But soon Yugoslavian pilots appeared in air...
The German attack came at the wrong time for the 102 eskadilju, 32 vazduhoplovne grupe as witnessed by its CO Mihajlo Nikolic:
".....In Mostar we were supposed to be relived by the Fighter Scholl from Nis. While waiting for them our planes were turning ready for their 100hrs check, because they all had from 110-130hrs flying time. The Me 109E had the Daimler Benz 601 engine, and the only repair shop for these engines was in Zemun. So on Saturday 5. April in the evening we landed on the Zemun airfield. The airplane of August Kovac engine failed while still on the runway, and the others were practically unflyable. But we were immediately included in the 51. vazduhoplovna grupa, which flew IK-3, but only had six of them-three each squadron. That night we were called by the CO of the unit Rupcic and gave as the following order:
- At dawn tomorrow morning you will patrol over the border part Vrsac-Bela Crkva where German tank units from Romunia are anticipated."
A member of these tank units, a tank gunner, describes the Major Diner StG 2 attack on a mountain pass fortification:
"A fine coating of dew covered the vehicles. Only a thin strip of slowly lightening sky above the mountains heralded the start of a new day. It was 5 am on the morning of 6 April. We looked at our watches. Fifteen minutes to go. As we adjusted our binocular, a pale dawn light started to seep down the hillside in front of us. The mountains behind rose out of a milky white morning mist. One more minute. There! To the west a machine gun rattled briefly. Then a muffled explosion. A few seconds of complete silence, then the whole front erupted into noise. Our own light flak units added to the din of the artillery.
Despite the racket, my ears picked up the thin drone of aircraft engines, growing louder every second. I knew from experience what it was, and pointed the glasses upwards. Sure enough, the dim shapes of approaching Stukas. Now they were circling above us, the dark red pin-points of their position lights plainly visible beneath the shadows of their wings.
They slowly began to climb, breaking into the clear light of the new day. More and more aircraft joined them as they headed towards the ridge of the mountains immediately to our front. One last circle, as it to make double sure of the target below, and then the first Ketten went into their dives. Even from here we could hear the familiar nerve-shattering howl of their sirens. And then the first bombs fell. The tiny black specs rained down on the enemy positions. The noise of the explosions echoed back unseen clefts in the mountains as Staffel after Staffel attacked. Soon pillars of yellow-brown smoke were staining the pristine whiteness of the high snowfields."
While Stukas of StG2 were attacking enemy positions and Me 110 were attacking all airfields in the general direction of the attack, a large formation of bombers from II./KG 4, KG 2 and KG 3 was joined by the fighters from II/JG 77, III/JG 77 and III/JG 54. A Yugoslav fighter-pilot during the Zerstorer run said: "When we were watching, almost all, of our fighter airplanes burning our CO said:
- It really is war. We will get paid double".
The approach of the bomber formation to Belgrade went really quiet, and only when the noise of multiple aircraft engines was reported from the hills surrounding Belgrade JKRV's response late due to the failure of the early warning system.
Kapetan 2. klase Mihajlo Nikolic:
"In the morning 6. April 1941 I took-off as first, with my wingman Milodrag Boskovic to follow the order. We returned after 50 min, when we landed we started to eat some sandwiches when from the office burst our CO giving us the sign to take-off. When we were strapping in he radioed us that German airplanes crossed the border at Subotica and were flying from South to Belgrade.
The officer ordering Nikolic to take-off was the CO at Zemun-Adum Romeo. 16 planes took-off.
The first was the IK 3 squardon of kapetan 1. Klase, who was escorted by narednik Dusan Vujicic. The second pair consisted of kapetan 1. razreda Todor Gojic his wingman was narednik Milislav Semiz. Dusan Borcic was leading the third pair and his wingan was Bamfic.
Mihajlo Nikolic continues
The IK-3s flew first because they got the information earlier, we followed them with seven Me 109E (there were ten, but one was unserviceable, and two were on patrol).
It was a clear day with a bit of haze and scattered clouds so we flew towards Sava river. When we were in the air, I looked back from habit and I saw that my wingman Milodrag Boskovic in confusion forgot to pull in his landing gear. I called him via radio but to no success, and only when I opened my landing gear, he cleaned out his gears and joined fighting formation. At first we saw nothing, then we spotted our planes diving into something. When we got closer, the sky immediately went black from German airplanes, and we flew into this turmoil not ever dreaming that Germans had an umbrella of fighters above us. First we saw the Stukas flying in groups of seven. There were so much targets that we didn't have to chose anything. I attacked one group from the left and bellow, but immediately the right side of the group descended for the gunners to have a clear shot. This was a trained tactic, but the group didn't break. We made a couple of runs, but didn't pay attention if there was any results. A little later I noticed that a Stuka was starting to burn, The group immediately-as being ordered-broke fearing an explosion.
Then I noticed that the He 111 were coming. I made a turn and told Boskovic that we are going for a group from behind because they are defended from the top and bellow. I started my attack carefully choosing my position, all concentrated in aiming...from nowhere a blast in the cabin and a German fighter almost rammed me with his wing, coming from the left.
My wingman didn't even saw him. That fighter got a good shot in me, but I to squeezing the trigger gave full left rudder and fired at him. The cabin was already filled with smoke. The fuel tanks are behind us and they could catch fire, we were told to put the fire out with a quick dive, I managed to do that, but when I wanted to apply throttle the engine did not respond. I don't see or hear Boskovic (I never saw him again). I started to chose where I will land, and between the villages Sakule and Baranda I notice a clearance with some stock on the left and right a field. I chose the field and I belly-land. I open the cabin and I notice there is blood on my flying suit, I got shot in my left leg."
In fact Boskovic wasn't found until 1955, when he and he's Me 109 were recovered from Dunav river near the village of Kovilj which is about 2min flying time in general heading towards Belgrade to the place that Nikloic crash-landed his Messerschmitt. Some parts of his Messerschmitt are kept in the Yugoslav air force museum, including the DB 601 engine.
The other pair of JKRV Me 109’s were Miloš Žunič and Džordžem Stojanoćem.
The pair closed in on the He 111’s, one bomber was shot down by Žunič. The pair quickly turned to the fighters and defended themself untill they ran out of ammo. Me 109 flown by Žunič was hit a couple of times, and he bailed out. He came to earth dead. His wingman survived.
The flight of IK-3’s lead by the talented aerobatic champion and flight instructor Savo Poljanec from Maribor soon reached the first wave of enemy bombers.
-
Poljanec lead the group on to the bombers but they were seperated because of the German Me 109 diving on them. Poljanec was now alone and fighting with the guns of 27 bombers. The experienced aerobatic pilot made an immelman turn and came back down the side of the formation concentrating on the right bomber of the last three. Just before the bomber was engulfed in fire the tail gunner watched the victorious Poljanec climb over the formation. Then on the alititude of 6000m Poljanec noticed that a formation of German Me 109 fighters were preparing an attack on him. Poljanec evaded the first fighter, and then started a high speed pursuit, with a couple of short bursts from Poljanec the Me 109 began lossing altitude and was aparently out of control. His joy was to be shortlived because in the next moment, he was attacked by the next fighter who was following him closely all this time. Poljanec felt a sharp pain in his right shoulder and his engine started to quit. Seeing there was no point of proceding, he shut off his engine and started spinnig. The trick worked since the enemy fighters sure of their kills started climb again. His spin became uncontrolled now and only his great experience as an aerobatic pilot enabled him to exit this spin, and this only at minimal altitude. Poljanec was now flying his bullet ridden IK 3 towards Zemun trailing a glycol trail behind him. Just before landing he was strafed by a Me 110 and one of his shell exploded behind the seat that Poljanec was ocupaying. But all in all he managed to land safely and was immediately put in hospital.
Worth mentioning here is that Poljanec in a IK-3 flew a lot of mock dogfights against Yugoslavian Me 109E usually flown by Boris Cijan.
Over another part of Belgrade, over Senjak the second pair consisting of podporočnik Borčič and Bamfič, was looking for a good fight, but they didn’t find any enemies, so they separetad to increase their chances.
Borčič flew toward the Rumanian border and then returned to Belgrade. Over Zvezdara he caught up with 20 Do 17’s enemy bombers that was heading towards the centre of the capital. He attacked the last three and sent one Do 17 in the Danube river. The same scenario as happaned again as with the Poljanec. The German Me 109’s were diving on him, but Borcic gained just a spot of advatage, so he could shot down a Me 109E. Now he was alone, and German fighters were trying to encircle him, but they weren’t suceding untill Borcic run out of ammo. He was shot down on the banks od Danube 15km nort of Belgrade. His last fight was observed by a lot of spectators in Belgrade city. After the war the remains of his IK 3 was lifted from the river, and it revealed that no big ‘white 10’ was worn on the fusleage, but just a little ‘black 10’ on the rudder.
His wingman Bamfić was also fighting with the Me 109s over Batajnica. His IK 3 was alo badly damaged, and he was coming in for landing, but was bounced by two Me 109s. To avoid certain death Bamfic was forced into a series of steep turns, with his wingtips almost touching the ground. He crash-landed near the airfield. His IK 3 was completly destroyed during the landing, but Bamfić was not hurt.
Vujičić had to return to the airfield due to cooling problems.
The pair Gogić and Semiz shot down a Stuka.
A pilot of the bomber stream piloting one of StG 77 Stukas was lucky to avoid Yugoslav fighters:
"After the Green hedgerows of the Normandy countryside, the warm browns and greys of the local landscape were still unfamiliar to our eyes. The morning sun was glinting off the peaks of the Transylvanian Alps at our backs as we were approaching the unmistakable silver ribbonod the Dunav, the frontier between Rumania and Yugoslavia. The hazy outlines of a large city appeared in the distance-Belgrade!
Below us the first few burst of enemy flak. But nothing to worry about. Those of us who'd been through Poland and France had seen much worse. The city is much clearer now. The white tower-like buildings bright in the morning sun. The Staffeln opens up as pilots prepare to dive. Our target is a the fortress which gave the city it's name. Perched high above the promontory where the Sava joins Dunav, it couldn't be missed.
I felt the jolt as our bomb was released. We leveled out and turned back for base at high speed, ready to prepare for the next mission. As we retired I saw the fortress ringed in smoke and flames. Fires had also been started in the royal palace and the nearby main railway station. Soon smoke hung over the whole city like a great grey shroud.
On 6 April 1941, during the first mission of Luftwaffe's I.(J)/LG 2 - low-level attack against the base of the 36th Fighter Group base at Rezanovacka Kosa at Kumanovo shortly after 6:00 am - the Bf 109s of this unit got involved in a dogfight with the Hawker Fury biplanes of 36th FG above this airfield. Without any reported losses, I.(J)/LG 2 (equipped with Bf 109 E-7) made the following claims of Hawker Furys: Lt. Geisshardt - 4 Furys (victories Nos 14-17), Olt. Clausen - 3 Furys (Nos 6-8) and Gefr. Quatember - 1 Fury (No 3).
During the first mission of JG 77 - escort to the raid against Belgrade - between 07.30 and 08.40, 56 Bf 109 of JG 77 were involved in furious dogfights with Yugoslav fighters. Oberleutnant Erich Friedrich of Stab/JG 77 claimed a Yugoslav Bf 109 as his third victory. In II./JG 77, the following pilots claimed one Bf 109 each: Olt. Jung (his victory No. 3), Ofw. Petermann (7), Lt. Zuzic (1), Fw. Ftröba (3), Olt. Patz (1), Fw. Köhler (2), Ofw. Petermann (8). And - in III./JG 77 - Olt. Schmidt one Bf 109 (No 1) and Ofw. Riehl one Ikarus Ik-2
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l...and these 2 are well deserving, more so than the early biplanes you thought would be a good idea.
iar-80/81
Dewoitine D.520
That was a Tracefi thread and you were a lot more excited than I. I believe I stated that the thread
was interesting then I offered some reference material in a non-committal manner. :D
I stand by my assessment above. :cool:
-
Ikarus IK-3
The Rogožarski IK-3, a low wing monoplane single seat interceptor fighter with retractable landing gear, was a product of the design team of Ljubomir Ilić and Kosta Sivčev as a follow on to their IK-1/IK-2 fighter. Joined by Ing. Zrnić, they initiated the design in 1936 under strict secrecy, wind tunnel testing was done in France, before submitting the design to the Yugoslav Air Ministry. Construction of the IK-3 was assigned to Rogožarski A. D. in Belgrade and the prototype flew for the first time in the spring of 1938.
The IK-3 was powered by a Hispano-Suiza 12Y-29 liquid-cooled inline engine that was rated at 890 hp for take-off and at 920 hp at 11,810 feet altitude. The prototype was armed with one 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS-404 cannon and two 7.92 mm FN-Browning machine guns mounted over the engine in the fuselage. The aircraft was of mixed steel tube, wood, and fabric construction with the retractable landing gear of Messier design. Its construction was similar to Hawker Hurricane.
Six test pilots flew the prototype in a very successful test program before it was lost. On January 19, 1939 the test pilot, Captain Pokorni, after a series of acrobatic maneuvers entered a terminal velocity dive from which he did not recover. After an investigation the aircraft was found not at fault and the Air Ministry ordered an initial lot of twelve aircraft.
The production IK-3 was refined with a number of changes including modifications to the sliding cockpit canopy, addition of a bullet proof windshield, and installation of the Avia H.S. 12Ycrs inline engine, a Czech built version of the Hispano-Suiza installed in the prototype. The first IK-3s were delivered in the summer of 1940 to an experimental fighter squadron whose pilots preferred it to the Messerschmitt Bf 109E-3 and the Hawker Hurricane, as the IK-3 was more maneuverable and could make tighter turns. Additionally, the aircraft was found to be very maintainable.
With the success of the IK-3, planning began for licensing manufacture in Turkey as well as increased production by Rogožarski. But before the second lot of IK-3 could be started German forces invaded Yugoslavia.
As production of the IK-3 proceeded the design team was working on improved versions of the IK-3 and other designs. Among the IK-3 improvements in work was installation of a more powerful engine. Engines that were considered to various extents were an upgraded 1,100 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51, the Daimler-Benz DB-601A, and the 1,030 HP Rolls-Royce Merlin III engines. Also, Rogožarski was pursuing a new fighter design, the IK-5, that was to be powered by two Hispano-Suiza 12Y engines. Two versions of the design were planned, a single seat interceptor and a two seat long range “destroyer” with heavy nose mounted armament. Models of the IK-5 had been tested in wind tunnels and construction of a prototype begun when the German invasion ended this and all other efforts.
Operators
* Kingdom of Yugoslavia
General characteristics
* Crew: one, pilot
* Length: 27 ft 5 in (8.38 m)
* Wingspan: 33 ft 10 in (10.33 m)
* Height: 10 ft 8 in (3.23 m)
* Wing area: 179 ft˛ (16.6 m˛)
* Empty: 4,123 lb (1874 kg)
* Loaded: 5,291 lb (2405 kg)
* Maximum takeoff: lb (kg)
* Powerplant: 1× Avia-built Hispano-Suiza 12Ycrs twelve cylinder Vee liquid-cooled engine, 920 shp (686 kW) each
Performance
* Maximum speed: 327 mph at 17,715 ft (526 km/h at 5401 m)
* Range: 310 miles (496 km)
* Service ceiling: 26,250 ft (8,003 m)
* Rate of climb: ft/min (m/min)
* Wing loading: 29 lb/ft˛ (113 kg/m˛)
* Power/mass: 0.17 hp/lb (0.29 kW/kg)
Armament
* 1× 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS-404 cannon
* 2× 7.92 mm FN-Browning machine guns
-
That was a Tracefi thread and you were a lot more excited than I. I believe I stated that the thread
was interesting then I offered some reference material in a non-committal manner. :D
I stand by my assessment above. :cool:
Stand there all day for all I care .. I'll have one of your flunkys bring you a golden bucket .... Better? :D
-
Stand there all day for all I care .. I'll get you a bucket :D
How French of you. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjKzUdy1gFw
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That was a Tracefi thread and you were a lot more excited than I. I believe I stated that the thread
was interesting then I offered some reference material in a non-committal manner. :D
I stand by my assessment above. :cool:
you sure spend a lot of time doing something in a "non-commital manner"...
Another 'source' (forum) provided a list (I have expanded ir with pics and wiki references - this is neither an endorsement nor argument against any or all planes listed - it is merely added reference):
I was doing some research for a side project about the Fiat CR.42 Falco, an Italian biplane fighter used extensively during WWII. It got me thinking, how many biplanes were used by frontline units in World War 2. So I spent much of today researching this and came up with a list of planes I have been able to confirm being used after 1 Sept 1939.
For the purpose of this list I'm not including aircraft used in the Spanish Civil War or the Sino-Japanese War, nor am I counting trainers. If you know of any that I missed, and I'm certain there are several, please add them to the list.
non-committed would be "cool idea"...not a wall of text with details. :neener:
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now now, if you're going to do it for one, you have to do it for all...and these 2 are well deserving, more so than the early biplanes you thought would be a good idea.
iar-80/81
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/IAR_80%2C_side_view.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_80 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_80)
Dewoitine D.520
(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/france/aircraft/fighter/dewoitine-d-520-fighter/dewoitine-d-520-fighter-03.png)
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/france/aircraft/fighter/dewoitine-d-520.asp (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/france/aircraft/fighter/dewoitine-d-520.asp)
ABSOLUTLY!!!!!
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How French of you. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjKzUdy1gFw
How do you like my shot gun... :rofl Funny he sums up your posts for you
-
How do you like my shot gun... :rofl
Over here they call it a water pistol.
Even though small, yours does concern me a little. :D
(http://digthatbox.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/TOYS/.pond/11_Batman_Water_Gun.jpg.w300h271.jpg)
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Over here they call it a water pistol.
Even though small, yours does concern me a little. :D
(http://digthatbox.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/TOYS/.pond/11_Batman_Water_Gun.jpg.w300h271.jpg)
Yes well watch the whole thing.
Bucket,
Edit: I'm also concerned about you facination :uhoh
-
you sure spend a lot of time doing something in a "non-commital manner"...
non-committed would be "cool idea"...not a wall of text with details. :neener:
I'm pretty committed to building support for adding some planes to the game. I just don't
support crazy all that much.
" So I spent much of today researching this and came up with a list of planes I have been able to confirm being used after 1 Sept 1939."
That was a quote from the source. You'd do well to take a second more of your own time.
Sorry to challenge your reading or take up so much of your valuable time. :D
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Yes well watch the whole thing.
Bucket,
Edit: I'm also concerned about you facination :uhoh
I've seen the whole movie. ;)
Does the word concern equate to 'fascination' in French? Pardon mine, I stopped lessons
in first grade. :)
-
I'm pretty committed to building support for adding some planes to the game. I just don't
support crazy all that much.
" So I spent much of today researching this and came up with a list of planes I have been able to confirm being used after 1 Sept 1939."
That was a quote from the source. You'd do well to take a second more of your own time.
Sorry to challenge your reading or take up so much of your valuable time. :D
it's not my reading so much as your lack of proper notation. if you're claiming that you were merely quoting something from someone else, then it should have been properly noted in some conspicuous manner, whether it be quotation marks, bolded text, italicized text, underlined text, or in the case of these forums bb code.
you're welcome... :neener:
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it's not my reading so much as your lack of proper notation. if you're claiming that you were merely quoting something from someone else, then it should have been properly noted in some conspicuous manner, whether it be quotation marks, bolded text, italicized text, underlined text, or in the case of these forums bb code.
you're welcome... :neener:
Because saying I ran across something elsewhere and a link at the end of it that directs you to the source is just plain confusing? :lol
-
I'm pretty committed to building support for adding some planes to the game. I just don't
support crazy all that much.
So do I...
So think about this thread ...tho it is rife with ankle magnets ....I think you will see my postion.... which I still see as correct and Stand near it. :eek:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,322505.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,322505.0.html)
A second more of my own time :rofl
You like Lamb too?,
-
Because saying I ran across something elsewhere and a link at the end of it that directs you to the source is just plain confusing? :lol
nope...
Another 'source' (forum) provided a list (I have expanded ir with pics and wiki references - this is neither an endorsement nor argument against any or all planes listed - it is merely added reference):
nowhere does it say, notate, inform, specify, etc...etc...etc.. that the next paragraph was a quote of someone from another forum.
-
So do I...
So think about this thread ...tho it is rife with ankle magnets ....I think you will see my postion.... which I still see as correct and Stand near it. :eek:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,322505.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,322505.0.html)
A second more of my own time :rofl
You like Lamb too?,
I do see your position. I wanted to give an impression of what impact 14 planes may
have on the game in a practical and logical succession - with sources and or reasoning
for each. Though some were my personal desire, most were comprised of recent wishes
in the forum (with the exception of your favorite French and Romanian - Or Czech or
Swiss or Duchy of Grand Fenwick out of control requests). It's up to 18, now that it's
become a thread of 'Hey! You forgot .... ' . You want to add every plane from every
nation that flew without any regard of what should be added first or even why. You just
keep waiving the French flag (then dozens of others). Sorry, like I said, I don't support
crazy. I won't ask HTC for something that just sounds foolish. Come back to Earth and
let's talk. It should be evident in this thread that where there's room for reason there's
room for compromise.
You mean sheep, dontcha?
-
nope...
nowhere does it say, notate, inform, specify, etc...etc...etc.. that the next paragraph was a quote of someone from another forum.
Except for the colon ( a colon looks like ':')? :D
Anyway you're off on a distracted tangent. Now that I've clarified, you should be better, eh?
:aok
-
I've seen the whole movie. ;)
Does the word concern equate to 'fascination' in French? Pardon mine, I stopped lessons
in first grade. :)
Hey it was your post... edit better next time :lol
Yes but you still like to put your fingers in the same place.... i dont think you gave stopped yet!
(http://digthatbox.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/TOYS/.pond/11_Batman_Water_Gun.jpg.w300h271.jpg)
Freud,
-
Hey it was your post... edit better next time :lol
Yes but you still like to put your fingers in the same place.... i dont think you gave stopped yet!
(http://digthatbox.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/TOYS/.pond/11_Batman_Water_Gun.jpg.w300h271.jpg)
Freud,
I dunno. Freud woulda noticed that this bucket then fingers progression was all your idea.
Now the sheep I'll take credit for. And really, don't just re-post a pic someone else
found in order not to make a point. That indicates a genuine lack of originality.
Here, enjoy this:
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003a_zps4e0fbbcc.png)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003b_zps05b4e31d.png)
:D
-
Except for the colon ( a colon looks like ':')? :D
Anyway you're off on a distracted tangent. Now that I've clarified, you should be better, eh?
:aok
lmao, sir aye aye sir!!! :salute :neener:
-
I do see your position. I wanted to give an impression of what impact 14 planes may
have on the game in a practical and logical succession - with sources and or reasoning
for each. Though some were my personal desire, most were comprised of recent wishes
in the forum (with the exception of your favorite French and Romanian - Or Czech or
Swiss or Duchy of Grand Fenwick out of control requests). It's up to 18, now that it's
become a thread of 'Hey! You forgot .... ' . You want to add every plane from every
nation that flew without any regard of what should be added first or even why. You just
keep waiving the French flag (then dozens of others). Sorry, like I said, I don't support
crazy. I won't ask HTC for something that just sounds foolish. Come back to Earth and
let's talk. It should be evident in this thread that where there's room for reason there's
room for compromise.
You mean sheep, dontcha?
Its not foolish and you would be adding more people from around the world based on being represented in the game :aok
Again read the whole thing ...... and No I meant lamb :bhead ;)
Your thread is a wikie thread we can all do that :aok
-
lmao, sir aye aye sir!!! :salute :neener:
That's what she said. :D
(http://www.requestaprint.net/marines/gallery/SailorAndWomanMarine.jpg)
-
Here, enjoy this:
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003a_zps4e0fbbcc.png)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003b_zps05b4e31d.png)
:D
Yeah more toys for those of us already here. How many new subs will we get from these?
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Its not foolish and you would be adding more people from around the world based on being represented in the game :aok
Again read the whole thing ...... and No I meant lamb :bhead ;)
Your thread is a wikie thread we can all do that :aok
:lol
-
Yeah more toys for those of us already here. How many new subs will we get from these?
Are you seriously trying to sell me on the idea that a PZL P.7 or an Amiot 143 are going
to be global player magnets for AH?
Sigh .. then again, I once thought the same of the Spanish Civil War.
-
Are you seriously trying to sell me on the idea that a PZL P.7 or an Amiot 143 are going
to be global player magnets for AH?
No Absolutly not .... And your really reaching.
But adding 2-3 countries that have large populations and should be in the Game makes sense to me.
D520, ms406 and the bloch Mb-152 would be a plane set from France <70million people> ...just like the 202 and 205.
Or the Boomerang and we could add the DapMk21 Beau there <Make an exception for the torpedo> Australia<30 million>!
Or 1-2 planes that could incompass an area in europe
Let me ask you what is your oppsition to adding more country's to the game? There were only 5 countries in the war? The Chinese <1.4 billion>... we don't want them? the French were flag waivers? What is it.
What about Language support?
Keep gibbering Arlo you have done it okay for years :D
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No Absolutly not .... And your really reaching.
But adding 2-3 countries that have large populations and should be in the Game makes sense to me.
D520, ms406 and the bloch Mb-152 would be a plane set from France <70million people> ...just like the 202 and 205.
Or the Boomerang and we could add the DapMk21 Beau there <Make an exception for the torpedo> Australia<30 million>!
Or 1-2 planes that could incompass an area in europe
Let me ask you what is your oppsition to adding more country's to the game? There were only 5 countries in the war? The Chinese <1.4 billion>... we don't want them? the French were flag waivers? What is it.
What about Language support?
Keep gibbering Arlo you have done it okay for years :D
Huh. Brazil isn't represented. Brazilians have been known to enjoy Aces High. Mexico isn't
represented. Mexicans have been known to enjoy Aces High.
Methinks your rationalization doesn't pass for reasoning.
And taking it so personally? Really now. :D
Wait ... which Chinese built aircraft are you recommending? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_World_War_II ;)
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Huh. Brazil isn't represented. Brazilians have been known to enjoy Aces High. Mexico isn't
represented. Mexicans have been known to enjoy Aces High.
Methinks your rationalization doesn't pass for reasoning.
And taking it so personally? Really now. :D
What planes did they fly and for who?
More hogwash,
-
What planes did they fly and for who?
More hogwash,
Kinda like your China brain fart? :D
-
Kinda like your China brain fart? :D
Pretty sure the 75A was built in China under lisense :D
What about the Irainians
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Curtiss_H-75A_of_IIAF_-_III.jpg)
:joystick:
-
Pretty sure the 75A was built in China under lisense :D
What about the Irainians
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Curtiss_H-75A_of_IIAF_-_III.jpg)
:joystick:
You're making my case for me. You know this, right? :D
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2315/2139472350_771ceac201.jpg)
The Grand Duchy of Noordeinde wanted an Air Force
and wishes it's people could enjoy Aces High.
-
You're making my case for me. You know this, right? :D
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2315/2139472350_771ceac201.jpg)
The Grand Duchy of Noordeinde wanted an Air Force
and wishes it's people could enjoy Aces High.
You all ready are a Case ...I don't need to make it for U :D
(http://i.c-b.co/is/image/Crate/VentanaNatPicnicBsktLLS12/&$web_zoom$&wid=558&hei=558/1202181040/ventana-natural-picnic-basket.jpg)
-
:D
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003a2_zps763f9b60.png)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003b2_zps34cf72ff.png)
-
YAK 3 and Pe-2 should be the top priority, IMHO
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now now, if you're going to do it for one, you have to do it for all...and these 2 are well deserving, more so than the early biplanes you thought would be a good idea.
iar-80/81
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/IAR_80%2C_side_view.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_80 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_80)
The contribution of the IAR-80/81 in the war was just as minimul as the early war biplanes Arlo posted. They are cool planes and all but no more deserving than the planes Arlo mentioned.
ack-ack
-
YAK 3 and Pe-2 should be the top priority, IMHO
Yak-3 in a French skin would be cool.
ack-ack
-
Yak-3 in a French skin would be cool.
ack-ack
Got nuthin `gainst historically accurate skins. Far as I know, neither has HT. :)
-
The contribution of the IAR-80/81 in the war was just as minimul as the early war biplanes Arlo posted. They are cool planes and all but no more deserving than the planes Arlo mentioned.
ack-ack
depends on who you're talking to...as far as the romanian squads flying them, they made as much difference as the 109s they got from the germans. they made a bigger contribution than the d.520 and just as much as the p40.
-
IAR 80
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/IAR-80.jpg)
Operational service
When Operation Barbarossa started, the IAR 80 equipped Esc. 41, 59 and 60 of Grupul 8 Vânátoare, part of the Grupul Aerian de Lupta (GAL), that were tasked to support the Romanian 3rd and 4th Armies deployed at the southern flank of the Eastern Front.[6] Grupul 8 was the only unit assigned a pure fighter role, while Grupul 5 and Grupul 7, equipped with German superior aircraft (Heinkel He 112s!* and Messerschmitt Bf 109s) were employed primarily as fighter-bombers and bomber escorts.[7]
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_112 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_112) (A superior aircraft)
On 22 June 1941, during the first day of the offensive, the IAR 80 patrols had their baptism of fire, achieving a single aerial victory (claimed by Sublocotenent aviator Ioan Miháilescu of Esc 60 van, a future ace) during four separate air combats. However, at least four IARs force landed with battle damage, while another two suffered engine trouble.[8] By the end of 1941, 20 IAR 80/81s had been lost in combat in accidents.[9] During 1942 the Romanian aviation industry reached its highest output so that the Royal Romanian Air Force could be re-equipped as follows: Esc. 47, 48 and 52 (Grupul Vânátoare), Esc. 43, 44 and 50 (Grupul 3 Vânátoare) and Esc. 41, 42 and 60 (Grupul 8 Vânátoare) received the new IAR 80A. Esc. 53 also replaced its Hurricanes with the IAR 80A, while Grupul 6 Bopi re-equipped with the IAR 81.[10]
In June 1942, the operational IAR fighter forces on the Eastern front, combined into the Flotilla 2 Vânátoare consisted of Grupul 8 Vânátoare, commanded by Cdr. Lt Col E. Pirvulescu, and included Escadrila 41, Escadrila 42 and Escadrila 60 with 12 IAR 80As each. During the Battle of Stalingrad, on 12 September, Grupul 8 Vânátoare IAR 80Bs (along with Grupul 7 Vânátoare’s Bf 109s) claimed to have shot down seven Yaks but they lost two IARs.[11] Grupul 8 moved at the end of September, to Karpovka, joining Grupul 7, equipped with Bf 109s.[12] On 12 and 13 December, Grupul 6 used its IAR 81s to support the German counterattack by the Panzergruppe Hoth of the Heeresgruppe Don, from Kotelnikovo towards Stalingrad.[13] In the summer of 1943 the FARR's IAR-80s were transferred to Romania for air defense duties,where they were used in combat against the USAAF. USAAF attacks were directed at the oil refinery installation at Ploieşti, in particular. On 1 August 1943 the IAR 80 faced the B-24 Liberator for the first time. There were 178 B-24s from 9th USAAF, part of the Operation Tidal Wave. The IAR 80Bs of Escadrila 61 and 62 of Grupul 6 Vânátoare, as well as IAR 80Cs from the newly formed Escadrila 45 of Grupul 4 Vânátoare,[14] together with the Bf 109Gs from Esc. 53 and Bf 110s from the Romanian night fighter squadron, dived on the low-flying, four-engined bombers, belonging to five USAAF bomber groups (the 44th, 93rd, 98th, 376th and 389th). The Americans lost – in combat or on the way back – 51 bombers. Only 89 reached their bases, of which only 31 were serviceable for a mission the next day. The Romanians pilots claimed 25 certain and probable victories for just two losses,[10] one IAR 80 B and one Bf 110C. According to Romanian statistics, IARs and Messerschmitts were confirmed as having shot down ten B-24s, with two probables.[15]
On 10 June 1944, IAR 80s took part in one of the major air battles when the USAAF attacked Ploieşti, with 36 P-38 Lightnings of the 82nd Fighter Group carrying one bomb each, escorted by 39 Lightnings of the 1st and 82 FGs. The IAR 81Cs from Grupul 6, as well as the German fighters from I./JG 53 and 2./JG 77, intercepted the large American formation. Romanian pilot Dan Vizanty, commander of Grupul 6, recalled later:
"Our Lightning attack came as a complete surprise to the Americans. Our attack was so quick that not one of the 100 (sic) American aircraft managed to fire a single shot at our aircraft parked on the ground. Everything happened between ground level and about 2,000 meters (6,550 ft), and was total confusion. I was excited and proud of my "mills", the IAR 80s, which, thanks to their extraordinary agility, remained victorious in the air. I saw their crazy dives, quick rolls, reverse turns and inverted flying, always with just brief burst of fire to save ammunition. It was an incredible sight, but also a drama for the Lightning pilots, who, at this low altitude, were inferior to the ever-present, nimble IAR 80s".
The USAAF lost 22[16] or 23 P-38s on that day. Eight were claimed by Grupul for themselves – the rest were claimed by the Luftwaffe and by anti-aircraft gunfire. The Americans claimed 23 victories, although the Romanians and Germans each reported only one aircraft lost on that day.[1]
The American account of this battle conflicts significantly with the Romanian one. Fighter pilot Herbert "Stub" Hatch, who took part in the dogfight, wrote that his flight of 16 P-38s, the 71st Fighter Squadron, was challenged by a large formation of Romanian IAR 81C fighters that he misidentified as Focke-Wulf Fw 190s.[16] According to Hatch, the fight took place at and below 300 feet (100 m) in a narrow valley.[16] Hatch saw two IAR 81Cs hit the ground after taking fire from his guns, and his fellow pilots confirmed three more kills from his guns, making Hatch an ace in a day. However, the outnumbered 71st Fighter Squadron took more damage than it dished out, losing nine aircraft. The Americans never again repeated the P-38 dive-bombing mission profile over Romania.[17] But during 1944 USAAF aircraft appeared over Romania in more significant numbers. Many air combats occurred and by the time of their last encounter with the USAAF on 3 July 1944, pilots of Grupul 6 vanatoare had submitted 87 confirmed (and ten not confirmed) claims.[18] But casualties among the Romanian fighter pilots quickly mounted too. The three IAR 80/81 groups (the 1st, 2nd and 6th) in a period of less than four months – known as the "American Campaign" – had at least 32 IAR pilots killed in action, including 11 aces. These losses exceeded the number of casualties suffered in the previous two and a half years of fighting against the Soviets.[19] Because of these heavy losses, all IAR 80/81 units were withdrawn from combat against Americans in July 1944 and IAR pilots started to convert to the more modern Bf 109G-6s.[18]
IAR.80
Performance
Maximum speed: 495 km/h at 5,000 m (275 knots, 316 mph at 16,500 ft)
Range: 940 km (507 nm, 580 mi)
Service ceiling: 10,500 m (34,500 ft)
Armament
4 × FN (Browning) 7.92 mm with 500 rounds each mounted in the inner portion of the wing
IAR.80A
Performance
Maximum speed: 540 km/h (337.5 mph)
Range: 1150 km (621 nm, 715 mi)
Service ceiling: 10,500 m (34,500 ft)
Wing loading: 132.35 kg/m˛ (27.1 lb/ft˛)
Armament
6 × FN (Browning) 7.92 mm with 500 rounds each mounted in the inner portion of the wing
IAR.81C
Performance
Maximum speed: 560 km/h at 7,000 m (fully loaded with bomb attached) (300 knots, 347 mph at 22,965 ft)
Range: 730 km on internal fuel only/1330 km with extra fuel tanks (394 nm, 454 mi/718 nm, 826 mi)
Service ceiling: 10,000 m (32,800 ft)
Wing loading: 132.35 kg/m˛ (27.1 lb/ft˛)
Armament
2 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon and 4 × 7.92 mm FN machine guns mounted in the inner portion of the wing; one 225 kg (500 lb) bomb under the fuselage
^ Neulen 2000, pp. 95–96.
^ Bernád 2003, p. 12.
^ Bernád 2003, p. 14.
^ Bernád 2003, p. 23.
^ a b Neulen 2000, pp. 99–110.
^ Bergström-Dikov-Antipov- 2006, p. 151.
^ Neulen 2000, p. 100.
^ Neulen 2000, p. 102.
^ Bernád 2003, p. 34.
^ Bernád 2003, pp. 33–35.
^ a b c Hatch 2000, pp. 59–67.
^ "Mission No. 702 / 10 June 1944 / Romana Americana Oil Refinery, Ploesti, Rumania." 82nd Fighter Group. Retrieved: 27 August 2009.
^ a b Bernád 2003, p. 84.
(http://iar80.webs.com/photos/Schite-si-desene-IAR-80/IAR80_Grupul_1.png)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/IAR80.jpg)
I can see this being added before the Dewoitine D.520 .... yet .... I don't see either being added before what I've suggested .... and then some .... and then some more. :D