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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Golden Dragon on November 15, 2013, 10:55:05 PM

Title: Handling 262s
Post by: Golden Dragon on November 15, 2013, 10:55:05 PM
I'm curious what tactics people use in fighting against the jet.  I used to just do a couple of reversals and let them be as they can't hit me if I see them coming.  Lately I turn into them and just take the head on shot in the merge.  It's such an unfair fight that doing that seems to be the only way to hit one unless the pilot gets a case of the stupids and gets low and slow.  Still, I shot one down during this last at home session I had and I feel bad since I enjoy dog fighting the guy.  Should 262 drivers expect this when bouncing piston fighters?  Discuss. . .
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Bruv119 on November 16, 2013, 01:55:50 AM
as a frequent flier of one the best defence for a piston fighter is to climb and keep eyes on him. 

The only way your going to get close enough for a shot is an SA fail on the 262 drivers part.   Stay out of his icon range but keep your speed up if you see them pull vertical or start attacking lower cons get closer.   When they go vertical you will have a short window to dive on them and get a shot.   Of course if they DO see you they will regain their speed and flee.   

Second best defence is to have your own 262  :)

3rd  fly some gunship buffs like B17's and bait him one thing a jet driver can't resist is some tasty bombers. 

4th keep wishing for a gloster meteor to out turn and slay the boogers. 
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: DaveBB on November 16, 2013, 05:43:18 AM
Pull up your map and figure out what base the guy is going to land at.  262s usually RTB as soon as they get an oil hit on one of their Jumos.  Nothing like being in a near supersonic dive firing at a 262 rolling to a stop on the runway, trying to adjust your aim with the trim keys.  Most of the time I just go ahead and crash into them.  Then I salute them on 200.  All the trouble is worth the laughs.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Debrody on November 16, 2013, 05:51:25 AM
-in a fighter, try to extend, then climb. If he is trying to set up a shot on you, break early, as his guns is only effective at close ranges.
-in a bomber, above 20k, if he is trying to climb up to you, hit the autoclimb. If he has alt on you, try to shallow dive towards your base.
Theese situations were the hardest to handle for me when i was flying a 262.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Karnak on November 16, 2013, 08:59:23 AM
It may suck for the guy, but the mere presence of an Me262 ruins a furball.  I will HO every Me262 I can and so long as I at least cripple him and force him to go land I don't care if I die.

Should it be added I would do the same to the Meteor Mk III.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Debrody on November 16, 2013, 09:13:36 AM
It may suck for the guy, but the mere presence of an Me262 ruins a furball.  I will HO every Me262 I can and so long as I at least cripple him and force him to go land I don't care if I die.

Should it be added I would do the same to the Meteor Mk III.
Bringing a 262 to an even furball is a sin - and the dweeb deserves to be hoed. Bringing it over a vulched field and clear it from the vulchers is fun.  :aok
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Megalodon on November 16, 2013, 10:18:17 AM
It may suck for the guy, but the mere presence of an Me262 ruins a furball.  I will HO every Me262 I can and so long as I at least cripple him and force him to go land I don't care if I die.


We actually agree on something!

HO the 262,
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: BaldEagl on November 16, 2013, 12:19:34 PM
It's such an unfair fight that doing that seems to be the only way to hit one unless the pilot gets a case of the stupids and gets low and slow.  

Or a case of boredom... or a sense of adventure...  or is testing it's capabilities... or...

It's fun to dogfight in a 262.  Try it sometime.  It helps to have perks to burn though.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Randy1 on November 16, 2013, 12:54:52 PM
I had a round with Lusche in his 262 yesterday.  I was in a P47M.  I avoid his pass twice by a good turn but he caught me on the third pass and I lost half the elevator and most of a wing but got the flaps out on the P47 and turned into him for the next pass and got a shot at him.  His next pass I could not turn into him.  The game was over.

I felt proud to avoid Lusche's attacks for a least a little while. Lusche is some kind of good.

I chased him down once to his base but ran out of gas with the field in sight.  That did not end well either.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 16, 2013, 01:23:21 PM
It may suck for the guy, but the mere presence of an Me262 ruins a furball.  I will HO every Me262 I can and so long as I at least cripple him and force him to go land I don't care if I die.

Should it be added I would do the same to the Meteor Mk III.

I love watching them scatter like ants as I dive in. I don't even pull the trigger most of the time.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Karnak on November 16, 2013, 01:42:59 PM
I love watching them scatter like ants as I dive in. I don't even pull the trigger most of the time.
As I said, a single Me262 ruins a furball and I will HO it every single time.  I've never won such an HO, but I've never lost either.  Still boggles my mind that so many Me262 drivers are willing to HO a Mossie.  After one such encounter the 262 player PMed me saying "I think you got the better deal there Karnak" as we'd both gotten credit on each other.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: bozon on November 16, 2013, 03:04:02 PM
As I said, a single Me262 ruins a furball and I will HO it every single time.  I've never won such an HO, but I've never lost either.  Still boggles my mind that so many Me262 drivers are willing to HO a Mossie.  After one such encounter the 262 player PMed me saying "I think you got the better deal there Karnak" as we'd both gotten credit on each other.
I HO every 262 that points in my general direction. Most have the sense to break away the moment they realize I am pointing my nose mounted 4x20mm towards them. Some are stupid enough to accept a HO with a mossie. If I remember correctly, the HOs in which I died included a HO collision. 1 mossie for 1 pissed off 262 is a fair trade.

The best weapon to counter an annoying 262 is to roll one yourself - or even better, roll 3 of them with two squadies and hunt the little ******* down. You should hear the cheers on our private channel as we gang him. So much fun.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Big Rat on November 16, 2013, 04:17:38 PM
Yes,  if you are flying a 262 expect everyone to take a HO shot at ya, nature of the beast.  It's your job as a 262 driver to not give them that chance. 

 :salute
BigRat
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Butcher on November 16, 2013, 04:21:08 PM
For now its pretty tough to catch a decent 262 stick, either be in something very FAST and have alt. Until the Meteor joins the game the 262 is best really combated by another 262 - even a Tempest with alt will have a hard time if its a decent stick.

Quite a few times I seen low and slow 262s dancing around furballs only to get caught, but it depends the squad and whose flying. I think Bruv was the only one who caught me in years, but then again I couldn't take on 4 262s.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: GScholz on November 16, 2013, 07:42:16 PM
262s are best flown low and fast... Like really low. To be successful in a 262 against fighters surprise is your best option. The 262 can close from icon range to firing range in very short time. Zoom up, kill someone, zoom back down and out. When you zoom up you slow down becoming more maneuverable and can get better gun solutions on the prey. Then when you zoom back down you regain that fantastic "make me untouchable" speed.


I feel the need to post this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p2_JnwsyB4
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: mechanic on November 16, 2013, 07:56:43 PM
It is standard procedure to ho a 262. Giving them a chance is the opposite of what they gave you when they rolled a jet.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: GScholz on November 16, 2013, 07:59:22 PM
Hey, you edited that video!  Nice work! :aok
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: artik on November 17, 2013, 02:38:35 AM
262 is the best fighter around. It outclasses everything else in AH.

I love this plane. I wish we had Meteor Mk III with 4 hispanos package. It would be even more awesome (30mm Mk 108 has horrible ballistics).

The biggest problem of 262 is actually hitting the target. The ballistics is horrible.

I don't understand why some many players hate it. It is amazing aircraft... Actually it is an aircraft from totally different generation.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: thedoom26 on November 17, 2013, 03:05:06 AM
I was watching this thing on tv, that after a while p51 pilots found out, If you do a steep dive, you can get the same airspeed, and could fire on the 262, or they would wait till they started to land, and  then attack,....in game its best to try not to engage the 262 in a dogfight, when one dives on me, i just break, ...But if i have a shot, il shoot, lol...I used to take the 262, and follow bomber pilots, reason is I wanted them to pay attention to me then their target, ..If they started to bomb, id go in and engage when they were in bombsite.....haha I had one guy bail because of me following him, Oh the great times i had in ah,
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: bozon on November 17, 2013, 03:42:29 AM
I don't understand why some many players hate it. It is amazing aircraft... Actually it is an aircraft from totally different generation.
You just gave the reason yourself. In other words, rolling a 262 into a furball is the equivalent of bringing a gun to a knife fight. Any prop plane you can fight, trap, set up for a wingman etc. Against a 262 driver who is careful and knows what he is doing there is nothing you can do except evade till he runs out of fuel or ammo. It is the ultimate cowards plane.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Drane on November 17, 2013, 04:05:38 AM
262s are best flown low and fast... I feel the need to post this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p2_JnwsyB4

that's awesome film! 99 KILLS!!! Yes agree with low, fast and keep your SA. It's hard for enemy to notice or follow you on the deck against the terrain background. Rise up from the deck shoot them and duck back down. Flying high to get bombers is boring. Fly low to get your adrenaline flowing and have fun.

Lost all the old films/screenshots except this one with 22 kills from 2006. This was a fun on the deck sortie. Even got a few perks out of the deal. Check out some of the names in the text buffer.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2ir7nlt.jpg)
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: artik on November 17, 2013, 05:39:31 AM
You just gave the reason yourself... It is the ultimate cowards plane.


Ok, also I don't think that flying air-superiority fighter is being a coward, especially when anybody else (with enough perks) can bring one as well.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: asterix on November 17, 2013, 06:29:31 AM
I like hunting 262-s in a P47. Rarely get close enough, but the reward is motivating. When one is attacking me the split S usually works. They often go to the next target allowing me to climb and position myself for an attack. Sometimes when I have one closing on me I accelerate first and about 1- 1,5k maneuver hard while dumping speed. This can give a shooting chance as the 262 overshoots.

262 is an excellent bomber destroyer, especially against large missions with escort when one side is outnumbered.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Karnak on November 17, 2013, 08:02:36 AM

Ok, also I don't think that flying air-superiority fighter is being a coward, especially when anybody else (with enough perks) can bring one as well.
No, the Tempest and F4U-4 have an edge, but it isn't insurmountable.  A little altitude and a P-51, Dora, 109K, Typhoon, La-7 or such has the advantage on them and once they are forced to bleed E to evade things get nasty.

The Me262 has such a large performance advantage that only a few piston fighters can even maneuver at its sustained deck speed and if that P-51 or N1K2-J does manage to do a diving intercept on the Me262 their window of opportunity is very narrow as they will rapidly decelerate and lose gunnery range.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Butcher on November 17, 2013, 08:59:56 AM
A decent stick, there is very little chance a pistol fighter can catch a 262, doesn't matter if you have alt or speed, your only bet to catch one slow, that is it. Unless he has very piss poor SA there is NO pistol fighter that will catch a 262.

When I say a decent stick here's my results for 1 frame of a scenario:

Butcher
21:03:35 Departed from Field #31 in a Me 262A-1
21:48:38 Shot down a B-26B flown by EVZ.
21:48:48 Shot down a B-26B flown by Kuya.
21:48:51 Shot down a B-26B flown by Kuya.
21:49:17 Shot down a B-26B flown by tudza.
21:49:48 Helps HamHawk shoot down DWOldDog.
21:49:53 Shot down a B-26B flown by thomace.
21:49:54 Shot down a B-26B flown by thomace.
21:50:39 Shot down a B-26B flown by DWOldDog.
22:01:55 Takes on fuel/ammo/ord at field #31.
23:16:18 Shot down a P-38L flown by SEBaker.
23:16:20 Shot down a P-38J flown by Fencer.
23:16:58 Shot down a P-38J flown by SIK1.
23:17:51 Shot down a P-38J flown by mir.
23:20:52 Helps IrishOne shoot down TomD.
23:21:26 Shot down a P-47D-25 flown by kyle53.
23:23:00 Shot down a P-51D flown by AHJoker.
23:23:46 Shot down a P-51D flown by AHRatTat.
23:33:01 Arrived Safely at Field #31
23:33:20 Departed from Field #40 in a Panzer IV H
23:45:51 Vanished without a trace.

I am an average stick with high SA, I was bounced by tempest flying at 25k while I was at 15k, my average alt was between 10-20k the entire scenario. To combat the P51s I had to climb to 25k to even get into the fight, even then nothing even scratched me.
Best bet is to get alt and speed, and pray the 262 slows down, you can only hunt a 262 and wait for it to screw up, I think I eventually got caught in the 4th frame when I tried to pull up to take out a gaggle of 38s and got caught by a Tempest and lost an engine.
If you are patient enough you end up catching one eventually, problem is most see the 262 and dive right away losing all advantage, in which in a piston fighter you can never recover.

Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: matt on November 17, 2013, 09:37:21 AM
as a frequent flier of one the best defence for a piston fighter is to climb and keep eyes on him. 

The only way your going to get close enough for a shot is an SA fail on the 262 drivers part.   Stay out of his icon range but keep your speed up if you see them pull vertical or start attacking lower cons get closer.   When they go vertical you will have a short window to dive on them and get a shot.   Of course if they DO see you they will regain their speed and flee.   

Second best defence is to have your own 262  :)

3rd  fly some gunship buffs like B17's and bait him one thing a jet driver can't resist is some tasty bombers. 

4th keep wishing for a gloster meteor to out turn and slay the boogers. 
So if you were in real combat which aircraft me262 or gloster meteor ?
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: GScholz on November 17, 2013, 09:39:14 AM
Flying a 262 is the reward you get for all the hard work in 30+ ENY rides against the runstangs, Lalas, Spitdweebs and [insert dweebplane of choice] earning those 200 perks that you will inevitably lose when you auger that jet... But it's good to be King, even for a little while.

The real cowards are not the occasional 262 dweeb, but those that fly low ENY rides every day.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 17, 2013, 11:45:05 AM
Flying a 262 is the reward you get for all the hard work in 30+ ENY rides against the runstangs, Lalas, Spitdweebs and [insert dweebplane of choice] earning those 200 perks that you will inevitably lose when you auger that jet... But it's good to be King, even for a little while.

The real cowards are not the occasional 262 dweeb, but those that fly low ENY rides every day.


Exactly.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Vinkman on November 18, 2013, 01:08:53 PM
some may already be aware, but I made the decision at the beginning of the tour that I fly 262 exclusively until I ran out of perks. I had  9000 fighter perks because I never fly perk rides and decided it was time to do something with them. halfway through the tour I have half my perk left, so I have a chance to make it.

You should ho 262s. I expect it.  It's one of the only options a prop fighter will get in 9/10 encounters.
Find the landing bases. By the time a 262 is ready to RTB, he's oiled, pw, or out of gas. That limits the options.
Come in very high. 20K in a plane the dives well. P-47, P-39, P-51. And get over him while on the deck. Even at 400mph an 262 accelerates slowly in level flight. So if he has no diving altitude you can catch him.

 :salute

Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: artik on November 18, 2013, 01:31:21 PM
Even at 400mph an 262 accelerates slowly in level flight. So if he has no diving altitude you can catch him.

Actually this is not correct at all. Above 250-300 mph has highest acceleration in the game (besides 163).

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352267.0.html

It is actually the huge difference between jet and prop planes. Propeller becomes ineffective at high speeds loosing significantly its thrust, while jet actually becomes more effective (due to higher inlet pressure).

Early jets had very long takeoff runs due to low thrust but the fact that the thrust preserved at very high range of speeds made them significantly faster.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Scca on November 18, 2013, 02:16:29 PM
I feel the need to post this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p2_JnwsyB4
And I feel like I am getting greedy after 3
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Changeup on November 18, 2013, 02:57:22 PM
It may suck for the guy, but the mere presence of an Me262 ruins a furball.  I will HO every Me262 I can and so long as I at least cripple him and force him to go land I don't care if I die.

Should it be added I would do the same to the Meteor Mk III.

And all brewsters
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Karnak on November 18, 2013, 03:42:10 PM
And all brewsters
Nah, just BnZ 'em.  They are highly ineffective and thus pretty rare.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: JunkyII on November 18, 2013, 04:32:30 PM
I think Razor is the best 262 killer in the game.....he's killed like 4 in the 2 months.

The pilots who rack up a lot of kills in a 262 are often easier to kill because they are riding that edge where they just can pull away if a high con comes in....the best SA can't always get you out of trouble unless you take yourself out of the fight completely.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Bear76 on November 18, 2013, 04:47:44 PM
I think Razor is the best 262 killer in the game.....he's killed like 4 in the 2 months.

The pilots who rack up a lot of kills in a 262 are often easier to kill because they are riding that edge where they just can pull away if a high con comes in....the best SA can't always get you out of trouble unless you take yourself out of the fight completely.

I think Grizz did that in one night.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Ardy123 on November 18, 2013, 05:20:08 PM
And all brewsters

Agreed, nothing worse than space brewsters to ruin a good turn fight.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Changeup on November 18, 2013, 05:51:14 PM
Agreed, nothing worse than space brewsters to ruin a good turn fight.

Heard someone on 200 call them Tie-Fighters the other night, lol
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Ardy123 on November 18, 2013, 06:08:08 PM
Heard someone on 200 call them Tie-Fighters the other night, lol
:rofl :rofl
What was the name of the space ship HTC had flying around one time?
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: mechanic on November 18, 2013, 07:38:20 PM
the claw
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on November 18, 2013, 07:39:11 PM
3rd  fly some gunship buffs like B17's and bait him one thing a jet driver can't resist is some tasty bombers. 
Which is good, because my 17 guns love tasty perk aircraft, especially the rocket buggers.  :D
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Changeup on November 18, 2013, 10:09:05 PM
Keep the 262 at around 500 and they out roll any prop plane in the game, especially the diving varieties that completely exceed their rates of roll.  Crank 30 degrees left and the 120 degrees more and pull a little.  Presto-WHAMMO, 51 is still trying to roll through its compression.

Try it....the big-time speed prop planes, at 490+ can't roll with a 262
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: JunkyII on November 19, 2013, 01:39:43 PM
I think Grizz did that in one night.
Razor killed Festers twice in one night.....Razor wasn't in a 262 also ;)
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: SirNuke on November 19, 2013, 01:47:04 PM
mine is bigger.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: JunkyII on November 19, 2013, 01:48:20 PM
mine is bigger.
Hey get out of this contest....this is between Bear and I... :D
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Bear76 on November 19, 2013, 01:55:16 PM
Hey get out of this contest....this is between Bear and I... :D

lol, the only contest is in your head.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: JunkyII on November 19, 2013, 04:02:23 PM
lol, the only contest is in your head.
The voices in my head speak say your b list at best :noid
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Bear76 on November 19, 2013, 04:13:17 PM
The voices in my head speak say your b list at best :noid

at least I'm on the list  :lol


Your troll needs some work  ;)
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Changeup on November 19, 2013, 04:39:57 PM
The voices in my head speak say your b list at best :noid

Junky, no worries...they all can't be home runs, lol

Why don't you take a seat over by the cheerleaders and send Squat in the game.   He might be able to gain a few more troll-yards than you. 
 :aok
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: JunkyII on November 20, 2013, 02:10:56 AM
Can someone like Violator/SkyRock/Kappa come to this to even this game of weiner size....changeup loses  for yall because his is wider then it is long.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Bear76 on November 20, 2013, 02:25:02 AM
Can someone like Violator/SkyRock/Kappa come to this to even this game of weiner size....changeup loses  for yall because his is wider then it is long.

The last thing we need is a sausagefest. Besides real wieners aren't made with pork  :noid
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: LCADolby on November 20, 2013, 07:54:04 AM
This is a bizarre contest.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Changeup on November 20, 2013, 08:15:30 AM
Can someone like Violator/SkyRock/Kappa come to this to even this game of weiner size....changeup loses  for yall because his is wider then it is long.

All the benchwarmers go immediately to size matters, lol.  I pwn u
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: JunkyII on November 20, 2013, 09:46:59 AM
All the benchwarmers go immediately to size matters, lol.  I pwn u
Kind of used a metaphor you must have missed....you talk a lot of game but can't back it up

The last thing we need is a sausagefest. Besides real wieners aren't made with pork  :noid
:rofl That was a good one
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Changeup on November 20, 2013, 10:23:52 AM
Kind of used a metaphor you must have missed....you talk a lot of game but can't back it up
 :rofl That was a good one

Smack is part of the game and there hasn't been a Muppet yet that said "Ooooooo" at the sound of your name, lol.   In fact they've all said, "meh"...not too special.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: JunkyII on November 20, 2013, 10:52:48 AM
I don't expect Ooooo out of anyone about anyone...It's a video game. Out of your currently active members I can fly with the best of them and hold my own. You really should come out to the DA to see what your missing.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Changeup on November 20, 2013, 11:36:48 AM
I don't expect Ooooo out of anyone about anyone...It's a video game. Out of your currently active members I can fly with the best of them and hold my own. You really should come out to the DA to see what your missing.

Asked and answered and their answers are much different than yours about holding your own.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Bear76 on November 20, 2013, 11:50:39 AM
What was this thread about again?
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Aspen on November 20, 2013, 11:53:07 AM
What was this thread about again?

The same thing every thread is about if it runs long enough.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: JunkyII on November 20, 2013, 12:14:47 PM
Asked and answered and their answers are much different than yours about holding your own.
Well then your squad is just as full of it as you are then

What was this thread about again?
Changeup has been hoping my ankle since I got back....changing up threads and such.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: GhostCDB on November 20, 2013, 12:23:09 PM
Is it me or does the muppets derail every thread  :noid
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Bear76 on November 20, 2013, 12:34:08 PM
Is it me or does the muppets derail every thread  :noid

It"s you. But, we do get a set of free steak knives for every 10th derailed thread.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Butcher on November 20, 2013, 12:37:31 PM
I miss the muppet threads, makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.
Title: Re: Handling 262s
Post by: Vinkman on November 20, 2013, 03:02:14 PM
Actually this is not correct at all. Above 250-300 mph has highest acceleration in the game (besides 163).

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352267.0.html

It is actually the huge difference between jet and prop planes. Propeller becomes ineffective at high speeds loosing significantly its thrust, while jet actually becomes more effective (due to higher inlet pressure).

Early jets had very long takeoff runs due to low thrust but the fact that the thrust preserved at very high range of speeds made them significantly faster.

It doesn't accelerate to fast enough to out run a fighter that is at 500 mph dive within Icon range.  :salute