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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RotBaron on March 06, 2014, 12:59:11 PM

Title: Next new plane
Post by: RotBaron on March 06, 2014, 12:59:11 PM
I know the graphics engine takes precedent now. But afterward...

Just wondering if we could have a discussion and see how much desire there is for each one of your wished for next plane.

Mine of course, as many of you know is the J2M, they could give us 3 variants with different gun packages in one release like Jadg TDs.

Where does the J2M fit on your list?

What is your top 5?

 :salute
 :airplane:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 06, 2014, 02:12:48 PM
Top of my list in order of priority:

Yak-1 or LaGG-3 (For Eastern Front mid-war; Yak-1 was more produced)
B6N (Most-produced Japanese torpedo bomber, taking over for the early-war B5N)
D4Y (Most-produced Japanese dive bomber, taking over for early-war D3A)
Pe-2 (Most-produced Soviet attack plane other than Il-2, for Eastern Front)
TBD (Important for Battle of Coral Sea and Midway)
Beaufighter (Multi-role, would add a lot of flavor to events)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: FLS on March 06, 2014, 03:01:36 PM
Not to rain on the parade but with the coming visual improvements isn't it time for the remaining old models to get updated?
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: zack1234 on March 06, 2014, 03:05:03 PM
 We should get the 410
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 06, 2014, 03:06:31 PM
Top of my list in order of priority:

Yak-1 or LaGG-3 (For Eastern Front mid-war; Yak-1 was more produced)........................... We just got another yak
B6N (Most-produced Japanese torpedo bomber, taking over for the early-war B5N) .................another hanger queen like the b5n
D4Y (Most-produced Japanese dive bomber, taking over for early-war D3A) ............................. ...........ditto
Pe-2 (Most-produced Soviet attack plane other than Il-2, for Eastern Front) ......................We just got a Russian bomber
TBD (Important for Battle of Coral Sea and Midway)....................... This one would be good because there is one off San Diego  :D  ....As long as it gets its flotation bags with HT's new water :aok
(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag145/Mark_Allen_M2/TBD-1withemergencyflotationgearfullyinflatedBagswouldkeepanaircraftafloatintheeventitwasforcedtoditchatsea_zps5f94b42d.jpg)

Beaufighter (Multi-role, would add a lot of flavor to events)   .................Hanger queen maybe as a dap21

[/quote]


Top of my list ...Cac Boomerang and the Dewoitine D-520 and/or any other plane or GV that expands the countries list and most probable the subscription list as well.

After that lets have a few planes the daily players will dig and have some fun in...then get back to work on the stable.

A-20G1
109F with options
P51 A36 .....51B and D makeover
P-63
VG33 ...about the same number built and delivered as the ta-152 >13<
MS-406
MB-152



 :cheers:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Mister Fork on March 06, 2014, 03:14:21 PM
We should get the 410
:lol

I know I know. An updated B-26.  Wait. Nope nope nope. Updated C-47. No, TBM.   :headscratch:

Alright. Updated Jap bombers.  :lol

But the next "NEW" plane should be the Beaufighter.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: pervert on March 06, 2014, 03:16:53 PM
We should get the 410

+1 or a spit 9??
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: whiteman on March 06, 2014, 03:26:14 PM
A26 & KI-45 for purely selfish reasons
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Rich46yo on March 06, 2014, 03:26:22 PM
I'd like to see the Beau or the Firefly. Im torn between the two. For GVs I'd love to see the SU-100.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Kazaa on March 06, 2014, 03:28:46 PM
No new planes. Focus on updating the older models.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 06, 2014, 03:59:49 PM
Yak-1 or LaGG-3 (For Eastern Front mid-war; Yak-1 was more produced)........................... We just got another yak
B6N (Most-produced Japanese torpedo bomber, taking over for the early-war B5N) .................another hanger queen like the b5n
D4Y (Most-produced Japanese dive bomber, taking over for early-war D3A) ............................. ...........ditto
Pe-2 (Most-produced Soviet attack plane other than Il-2, for Eastern Front) ......................We just got a Russian bomber
TBD (Important for Battle of Coral Sea and Midway)....................... This one would be good because there is one off San Diego  :D  ....As long as it gets its flotation bags with HT's new water :aok
Beaufighter (Multi-role, would add a lot of flavor to events)   .................Hanger queen maybe as a dap21

My list is based on what is needed for special events, which are a whole other world of gaming in addition to the MA.  What is best in special events is having the aircraft that were there in the actual battles.  When we can't do that (because the aircraft isn't in AH), we substitute, but some substitutions don't work very well, such as for the aircraft I list below.

The Yak-1 and LaGG-3 were main fighters for the Soviet Union mid war.  The Yak-7b is nice, but not an ideal stand-in for those.
The Japanese bombers are not hangar queens in Pacific Theater events.
The Tu-2 is not a suitable stand in for the Pe-2.
The Beaufighter would not be a hangar queen in many theaters, including Mediterranean events.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 06, 2014, 04:02:19 PM
I'd be willing to bet the Wellington bomber or Beaufighter gets the next nod.  Maybe the Ki-100.

Think gaps in the plane set that could actually be used.  That is where I start.  Would the Meteor Mk III be nice to have for that hypothetical matchup vs the Me262?  Oh yeah.  But I don't see it happening anytime soon.  I could be wrong and at this point I wouldn't be sad to say so.  

I say count on the Wellington, Beaufighter, Ki-100, D520, or maybe even the Pe-2.  Time will tell.

As for additions to the ground game my bet goes towards the Su-100, Panzer III/StuG III (either, or both?), or Cromwell.    
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 06, 2014, 04:12:57 PM
My list is based on what is needed for special events, which are a whole other world of gaming in addition to the MA.  What is best in special events is having the aircraft that were there in the actual battles.  When we can't do that (because the aircraft isn't in AH), we substitute, but some substitutions don't work very well, such as for the aircraft I list below.

The Yak-1 and LaGG-3 were main fighters for the Soviet Union mid war.  The Yak-7b is nice, but not an ideal stand-in for those.
The Japanese bombers are not hangar queens in Pacific Theater events.
The Tu-2 is not a suitable stand in for the Pe-2.
The Beaufighter would not be a hangar queen in many theaters, including Mediterranean events.

Wouldn't the MiG-3 be a better fit than the Yak-1? Even in 1942?
Japanese bombers are always prevalent, glad we have what we do for scenarios.
Agreed that the Tu-2 is not an acceptable stand in for the Pe-2, thought the properly equipped B25 is.
The Beaufighter has much the same punch as the Mossi albeit being slower.  Oh, and able to carry a torpedo as well.  :aok  In PTO and MTO scenarios it will do well enough. Though, for MA use the ENY of the Mossi Mk IV will need to be adjusted (it is too high on the scale).
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 06, 2014, 04:15:18 PM
Top of my list in order of priority:

Yak-1 or LaGG-3 (For Eastern Front mid-war; Yak-1 was more produced)
B6N (Most-produced Japanese torpedo bomber, taking over for the early-war B5N)
D4Y (Most-produced Japanese dive bomber, taking over for early-war D3A)
Pe-2 (Most-produced Soviet attack plane other than Il-2, for Eastern Front)
TBD (Important for Battle of Coral Sea and Midway)
Beaufighter (Multi-role, would add a lot of flavor to events)


I've always respected your priorities.  :aok :cheers:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 06, 2014, 04:16:34 PM

The Beaufighter would not be a hangar queen in many theaters, including Mediterranean events.

Nor would the Beaufighter be a hanger queen in any of the main arenas, not with the various ordnance packages it could carry.  It would be a very popular attack plane.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 06, 2014, 04:17:14 PM
Top of my list ...Cac Boomerang and the Dewoitine D-520

Yeah, we know.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 06, 2014, 04:19:44 PM
No new planes. Focus on updating the older models.

Can't argue with that. Well .... won't.

P.S. More active accounts instead of 'I'm cancelling mine til things get "better.' Would go further toward helping HTC accomplish our wishes.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: TOMCAT21 on March 06, 2014, 04:20:31 PM

beaufighter
Baltimore ( Martin 187 )
Martin 167 Maryland
Pe-8
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 06, 2014, 04:34:36 PM
Wouldn't the MiG-3 be a better fit than the Yak-1? Even in 1942?
Japanese bombers are always prevalent, glad we have what we do for scenarios.
Agreed that the Tu-2 is not an acceptable stand in for the Pe-2, thought the properly equipped B25 is.
The Beaufighter has much the same punch as the Mossi albeit being slower.  Oh, and able to carry a torpedo as well.  :aok  In PTO and MTO scenarios it will do well enough. Though, for MA use the ENY of the Mossi Mk IV will need to be adjusted (it is too high on the scale).


They were mostly contemporaneous, but there weren't nearly as many MiG-3's as Yak-1's (3200 vs. 8700).  Also, the MiG-3 has such weak armament that it wouldn't be good as a main fighter for the Soviet side in a scenario.  The Yak-1 would be more useful.

I'm not sure if the B-25 is a good stand in for the Pe-2 depending on how much of a dive-bomber the Pe-2 really was.  I'm not knowledgeable about how Pe-2's did their bombing in real life.

I don't think that any of these planes would see huge use in the MA, but the MA already has almost all of the late-war planes.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Karnak on March 06, 2014, 04:34:39 PM
Yeah, we know.
It is quite amusing how he talks down everybody else's early or mid war suggestions as useless hangar queens, but then constantly pushes his preferred early war stuff as though they wouldn't be hangar queens.  The willful hypocrisy is interesting to observe.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: -27th- on March 06, 2014, 04:42:08 PM
1. A26 Invader
2. Me 262 w/50mm cannon
3. Armored train
4. Wellington
5. Beaufighter

 :salute
27th
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 06, 2014, 04:44:15 PM
It is quite amusing how he talks down everybody else's early or mid war suggestions as useless hangar queens, but then constantly pushes his preferred early war stuff as though they wouldn't be hangar queens.  The willful hypocrisy is interesting to observe.

Meg is a classic case study of inability to think outside his own brick.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 06, 2014, 04:51:26 PM

2. Me 262 w/50mm cannon

27th

Never saw any service beyond the two Me 262 A-1a/U4 prototypes.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: lunatic1 on March 06, 2014, 04:52:25 PM
We should get the 410
do you mean a better-410--have you tried bribing them with pies??????????????
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: icepac on March 06, 2014, 05:10:05 PM
Beaufighter, KI44, D520, Mig3.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: lunatic1 on March 06, 2014, 05:13:31 PM
beaufighter--updated p-51 with cannons.some other british tank. :joystick:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Motherland on March 06, 2014, 05:18:42 PM
Wouldn't the MiG-3 be a better fit than the Yak-1? Even in 1942?
Yak-1 had higher production numbers and was a better fighter. The MiG-3 was significantly worse in every respect except for speed and looks.
MiG-3 would still be super cool though

I don't understand the attitude of "we almost have kind of a workable representation of one of the largest and most important air forces in the war, lets go back to focusing on American planes or completely irrelevant ones"
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: save on March 06, 2014, 05:30:15 PM
Tante JU-52, both as troop carrier,ordnance and bomber !

Axis does not have a troop/ord carrier flying.
(http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/ju52-02.jpg)

Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Saxman on March 06, 2014, 05:38:55 PM
Axis does not have a troop/ord carrier flying.
(http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/ju52-02.jpg)

Up a C-47 with the Japanese skin.  :D

As for hole fillers:

Ki-44
Ki-45 (seriously, we have 110s taking its place in PTO scenarios/FSOs. :P)
Ki-100
J2M
D4Y
B6N

TBD
SB2C
F6F-3
F4F-3

Beaufighter
Swordfish
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 06, 2014, 05:43:47 PM
Up a C-47 with the Japanese skin.  :D

As for hole fillers:

Ki-44
Ki-45 (seriously, we have 110s taking its place in PTO scenarios/FSOs. :P)
Ki-100
J2M
D4Y
B6N

TBD
SB2C
F6F-3
F4F-3

Beaufighter
Swordfish

Gotta appreciate your PTO fixation (upping the Japanese set in power and flexibility while adding allied planes that balance more in the early/mid war should promote more PTO events from early to late time frames). However, I don't think everyone else will.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: palef on March 06, 2014, 05:50:17 PM
Up a C-47 with the Japanese skin.  :D

As for hole fillers:

Ki-44
Ki-45 (seriously, we have 110s taking its place in PTO scenarios/FSOs. :P)
Ki-100
J2M
D4Y
B6N

TBD
SB2C
F6F-3
F4F-3

Beaufighter
Swordfish

This guy has it right.

I want a Lisunov Li-2

I don't think the Meteor III/Me262 "match up" would work out in the Meteor's favour. I may be entirely wrong, but I view the Meteor III as analagous to a jet powered Tempest with more concentrated ordinance and a bigger turning circle.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 06, 2014, 05:54:56 PM
There were only 400 Ki-100's built, so I'd put that one farther down the list.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 06, 2014, 05:56:23 PM
There were only 400 Ki-100's built, so I'd put that one farther down the list.

But they were well used.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 06, 2014, 06:05:11 PM
The problem, though, is that there weren't many Ki-100's, and they were appearing in 1945, where we have the Ki-84 and N1K, which are better planes.  It would be nice to have it, sure, but it would be nicer to have several other planes first from a scenario perspective.  I would rather have the J2M (600 made) than the Ki-100, but even that is not higher priority to me for scenarios than those others in the list.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: HighTone on March 06, 2014, 06:08:54 PM
For me it would look like:

Ki-45
Ki-61-I-ko (with the Hei gun pack as an option)
B6N
D4Y
J2M3
Ki-100
Ki-102
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 06, 2014, 06:26:46 PM
Everyone has their preferences. Thing is, so does everyone else. The fine art of building a larger support base involves compromise.  :D
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 06, 2014, 06:29:44 PM
I do want this:

(http://www.snopes.com/photos/airplane/graphics/russiabomber.jpg)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 06, 2014, 06:36:05 PM
Snopes image!  :D
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 06, 2014, 07:10:32 PM
Snopes image!  :D

Well, the image is based on the K-7, and while "they" say that the above image is a "fake", I happen to know the "truth".  ;)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: WWhiskey on March 06, 2014, 07:42:00 PM
Pershing!
No wings to build!
No flight profile to build!
Just a thought as I have all the planes I could ever want with the yak 3 and the M model jug

Select perk point available field mods would be awesome tho, and a cannon pony!
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: -27th- on March 06, 2014, 07:48:27 PM
Never saw any service beyond the two Me 262 A-1a/U4 prototypes.

ack-ack

Yeah? It existed. C'mon it will be fun. :rock

 :salute
27th
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: GScholz on March 06, 2014, 08:34:01 PM
Redo the 110 series and expand it to include E and F models. That the 110 is still an AH1 model after what... 10 years? of AH2 is a travesty.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Saxman on March 06, 2014, 09:19:03 PM
Gotta appreciate your PTO fixation (upping the Japanese set in power and flexibility while adding allied planes that balance more in the early/mid war should promote more PTO events from early to late time frames). However, I don't think everyone else will.

PTO is arguably still one of the most gappy plane sets right now, so it definitely needs some love.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Wildcatdad on March 06, 2014, 09:21:43 PM
beaufighter--updated p-51 with cannons.some other british tank. :joystick:
I vote TOG 2. just saying...
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 06, 2014, 09:48:56 PM
PTO is arguably still one of the most gappy plane sets right now, so it definitely needs some love.

We need VMF-251 to be active again. From one Corsair pirate to another.  :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: icepac on March 06, 2014, 11:03:18 PM
I like considering planes that will affect more than just the main arena.

I picked the beaufighter because it will affect early or midwar depending on variant.

The Mig3 goes 398mph in 1940 which would affect early war.

The D520 is another early war plane but all 3 of these planes would likely see action in late war main arena as well because of certain aspects of it's armament or performance.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Masherbrum on March 06, 2014, 11:08:29 PM
I.A.R. 81c
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 06, 2014, 11:14:15 PM
Meg is a classic case study of inability to think outside his own brick.

 I look as ability to stay focused... which is lost on you  :aok

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 06, 2014, 11:14:59 PM
Yeah, we know.

2 responses?  :rofl

 Go girl,
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 06, 2014, 11:20:52 PM
I.A.R. 81c


 Yes +1 ..........adds new country!
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: RotBaron on March 06, 2014, 11:50:56 PM
Brooke: last time i looked i thought it was more like ~800 J2Ms between various models?


The thing about the J2M that I think would be unique to AH's other planes is the Jack's designed purpose of quick medium+alt intercept. We have the La7, but it was only designed for intercept of low alt. The Jack ought to be capable of even high altitude intercept, although that's not exactly a scramble and get in a fight in the gaming world...

Many have said that it was a good dog fighter in other games, but per Horikoshi's wishes it was designed to intercept the B-29 iirc. It was said to not be maneuverable, but of course that's not being a turny bird by Nippon standards...

Anyhow seems like the Beau is a top, maybe you guys will get it.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: RotBaron on March 06, 2014, 11:51:45 PM
I.A.R. 81c


Would be nice to see some of the smaller nations represented.  :aok
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: zack1234 on March 07, 2014, 01:44:09 AM
No new planes. Focus on updating the older models.

This is our game :old:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 07, 2014, 03:44:35 AM

 Yes +1 ..........adds new country!

So would this:

(http://i1.wp.com/listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/pzl30-1.jpg?resize=548%2C225)

What's with your fixation on turning Aces High into the League of Nations?  :D
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 07, 2014, 03:45:49 AM
Oy vey.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: hotcoffe on March 07, 2014, 06:14:41 AM
we urgently need cargo planes that can carry at least 3 field supplies in one sortie. B24 for cargo varriant or german huge cargo planes does not matter. we need them urgently to balance strats ... once they are down it basically takes all day to repsuply them which i think is a big problem because in the largest maps we have a strats run does not last more than 45mins.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Oldman731 on March 07, 2014, 07:14:36 AM
As for hole fillers:

Ki-44
Ki-45 (seriously, we have 110s taking its place in PTO scenarios/FSOs. :P)
Ki-100
J2M
D4Y
B6N

TBD
SB2C
F6F-3
F4F-3

Beaufighter
Swordfish


These are good picks.  Might add the SM-79 to the mix.

- oldman
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: BuckShot on March 07, 2014, 07:25:22 AM
Hs-129
Whirlwind
P-63
J2M
SB2C Helldiver
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: dirtdart on March 07, 2014, 07:26:25 AM
Pontification follows:

The Fiat CR-42 or 32, HS-129, just because they look great, hanger queens or not. Frankly the planeset is deep enough to satisfy players. I am sure there is a chart somewhere that shows which planes, regardless of when they were added, are used most. Point is, what aircraft are significant enough in a historical sense to add to the set? Or, is it, which plane if added, will aid in player base retention?

I think many might be drawn to curiosities, such as the 50mm 262, fly it once or twice then realize the standard loadout is more devastating and survivable.

IMHO all plane additions need to play into the greater notion of how the game is played. If you want furballs, early war turny planes are the best. If you want some measure of strategy, then the game should be arranged in such a way that a collective strategy works, then attack planes such as the beaufighter make wonderful sense. If you are looking for historical fights for scenarios, is there sufficient interest in scenarios to merit the thousands of hours required to model a new ride? (I wonder if 3D scanners help cut the time... Greebo?)

I think investing time in the terrain and environment is where HTC is wisely spending their time. If they found a way to say create clouds that do not crash systems, places like TT could be GVing and ground attack paradise, while furballers have their way above the clouds. Weather would be nice.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: GScholz on March 07, 2014, 07:39:02 AM
Fw 189 - An army coop aircraft like the Storch, but armed with a few bombs and machine guns.

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Fw-189/Fw-189-(H)31.1-(5D+FH)/images/Art-Focke-Wulf-Fw-189A-1(H).31-(5D+FH)-Smolensk-1941-0A.jpg)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: BuckShot on March 07, 2014, 07:51:48 AM
189...and a very cool rear gun apparatus
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Greebo on March 07, 2014, 09:23:10 AM
Pontification follows:
 If you are looking for historical fights for scenarios, is there sufficient interest in scenarios to merit the thousands of hours required to model a new ride? (I wonder if 3D scanners help cut the time... Greebo?)

I'm not involved in creating the 3D shape so I don't know how a 3D scanner could help. I suppose if HTC wanted to save some time they could buy pre-done external 3D shapes off another firm rather than creating it themselves. They would still need to create the skin file for it, transferring the various 3D shapes into flat areas on a bmp that can be skinned. Then they'd need to create the cockpit and skin that, do the flight and damage models and so on.

I reckon there are only half a dozen totally new aircraft that can be introduced to AH that wouldn't be what some call "hangar queens" for the LW MA, (Meteor, H8K2, A-26, G.55 etc). The LW plane set is already pretty well filled out and the GV set not too far behind. So unless HTC decide to go the WW2/1946 route (unlikely) I'd guess we will be seeing an increasingly higher proportion of mid and early war stuff in future releases.

Once the AH1 remodels are done HTC will probably start on the older AH2 shapes and we might see things like Allison Mustangs or new Bf109 variants tacked onto the shape update.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 07, 2014, 09:59:21 AM
So would this:

(http://i1.wp.com/listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/pzl30-1.jpg?resize=548%2C225)

What's with your fixation on turning Aces High into the League of Nations?  :D

I already told you .........I think new countries would add new subs especially France and Australia  :D


 :cheers:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Kazan_HB on March 07, 2014, 11:34:44 AM
I think low poly 3D model is not a problem for good modeller. Problem is put plane to game. Flight model and damage model took many time.
I dream about Battle of France D520 vs 109E
or Operation Torch D520 vs F4F  :bolt:

Vive la France
Vive l’Empereur
Vive l’Empire
  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Karnak on March 07, 2014, 11:56:39 AM
I already told you .........I think new countries would add new subs especially France and Australia  :D


 :cheers:
Horribly outdated units that are free kills were most of the game takes place would not add sustained new subscriptions.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 07, 2014, 12:37:50 PM
The Mig3 goes 398mph in 1940 which would affect early war.

But it has super-weak guns: 2x7.62mm and 1x12.7mm.

Also, at low alt, it is slower than the Bf 109F and Yak-1.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 07, 2014, 12:49:52 PM
If you are looking for historical fights for scenarios, is there sufficient interest in scenarios to merit the thousands of hours required to model a new ride?

It would be for all special events (scenarios, FSO's, This Day in WWII, snapshots, SEC, etc.), which altogether have a decent number of players.

That's for HTC to judge, of course, but it seems like they think so, or we wouldn't have He 111's, G4M's, D3A's, B5N's, SBD's, P-40's, P-39's, B-25's, I-16's, etc.

Still, I completely understand the resource issue.  There are many things that can be done and not infinite resources, so there must be work on the best bang for the buck, and even then there is judgment involved in what best bang for the buck is.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Bruv119 on March 07, 2014, 01:25:32 PM
obviously a meteor... 
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: F77 on March 07, 2014, 01:52:48 PM
Closely followed by...
Short Sunderland
Wellington
Halifax
Hampden
Bleinheim
Swordfish
 :)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: ink on March 07, 2014, 02:13:53 PM
I vote this

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blender/g55_01_zps59c55c4c.png) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/fieldsofink/media/blender/g55_01_zps59c55c4c.png.html)

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blender/g55_02_zps946ed9b8.png) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/fieldsofink/media/blender/g55_02_zps946ed9b8.png.html)

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blender/g55_zpsdbc183fa.png) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/fieldsofink/media/blender/g55_zpsdbc183fa.png.html)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Tinkles on March 07, 2014, 02:15:14 PM
Fw 189 - An army coop aircraft like the Storch, but armed with a few bombs and machine guns.

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Fw-189/Fw-189-(H)31.1-(5D+FH)/images/Art-Focke-Wulf-Fw-189A-1(H).31-(5D+FH)-Smolensk-1941-0A.jpg)

Looks like a lancaster and a p38
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Widewing on March 07, 2014, 02:24:44 PM
Since the Ki-61 is due for the graphics update, a moderately involved addition would the Ki-100.

Likewise, the old AH1 F4F/FM-2 could be updated to include the F4F-3 (non-folding wings, 4 guns). Again, not a lot of difference between the types.

A-20/Boston is also due... Add the 20mm option to the A-20G for a perk (5 to 10 perks). Add the ventral gun. Add the glass nose A-20J.

These three graphic updates could add three new aircraft at the same time. Most bang for the labor.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 07, 2014, 02:35:59 PM
A-20/Boston is also due... Add the 20mm option to the A-20G for a perk (5 to 10 perks). Add the ventral gun. Add the glass nose A-20J.


The cannon equipped A-20 would also need the top turret replaced with a flex-gun mount.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Kazaa on March 07, 2014, 02:54:16 PM
obviously a meteor... 

Obviously some obscure early war hanger queen.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: killnu on March 07, 2014, 03:00:54 PM
190 A3 and/or A4
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Rich46yo on March 07, 2014, 03:03:08 PM
The D520 does interest. Its Hispano, roll, and dive, would give it instant legitimacy. Might be a fine perk farmer.

I dont remember its score against the LW but it did do pretty well, limited numbers and all.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Kazan_HB on March 07, 2014, 03:20:39 PM
The D520 does interest. Its Hispano, roll, and dive, would give it instant legitimacy. Might be a fine perk farmer.

I dont remember its score against the LW but it did do pretty well, limited numbers and all.
They shot down 114 LW planes.
Dive speed 825km/h second prototype
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 07, 2014, 04:23:25 PM
The D520 does interest. Its Hispano, roll, and dive, would give it instant legitimacy. Might be a fine perk farmer.

I dont remember its score against the LW but it did do pretty well, limited numbers and all.

The D.520 also enjoyed success with the Vichy French in Syria and Lebanon.  31 A2A (against planes of all types) victories and 11 losses.  The RAF and Commonwealth fighters they went against were usually P-40s, Hurricanes and some RN Fulmars.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: pipz on March 07, 2014, 04:28:52 PM
We should get the 410

I second that emotion.  :old:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: icepac on March 07, 2014, 04:35:06 PM
But it has super-weak guns: 2x7.62mm and 1x12.7mm.

Also, at low alt, it is slower than the Bf 109F and Yak-1.

It was available with 2 more 12.7 mm guns first in gondolas.

That's 5 guns.

Other variants removed the 7.62 and used 3x ubs 12.7mm guns.

Other variants had 6x RS82 rockets along with the ubs machine guns.

Another variant had 2 x 20mm shvak cannons.

Many were fitted with 2x 100kg bombs.

This plane also can exist in all arenas like the beaufighter.


I also like the D520 with it's HS404 cannon in the nose.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Karnak on March 07, 2014, 04:42:00 PM
It was available with 2 more 12.7 mm guns first in gondolas.

That's 5 guns.

Other variants removed the 7.62 and used 3x ubs 12.7mm guns.

Other variants had 6x RS82 rockets along with the ubs machine guns.

Another variant had 2 x 20mm shvak cannons.

Many were fitted with 2x 100kg bombs.
What is your source for the MiG-3 armament options?
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: tmetal on March 07, 2014, 05:17:01 PM
TBD mostly because the TBM in game is a horribly OP substitute in FSO and scenarios; also the Ki100 because it would probably come with an updated Ki61.

I know it isn't a plane but it would be great to see a IJN task force added; for me this is one of the biggest tripping blocks to immersion during FSO's
(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y371/mattnu/Bowfin%20Musuem/DSCI0734.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/mattnu/media/Bowfin%20Musuem/DSCI0734.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 07, 2014, 05:31:50 PM
TBD mostly because the TBM in game is a horribly OP substitute in FSO and scenarios; also the Ki100 because it would probably come with an updated Ki61.

I know it isn't a plane but it would be great to see a IJN task force added; for me this is one of the biggest tripping blocks to immersion during FSO's
(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y371/mattnu/Bowfin%20Musuem/DSCI0734.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/mattnu/media/Bowfin%20Musuem/DSCI0734.jpg.html)

That would be an awesome update, imo. I will burn both candles and incense and invest in scotch to cover all bases here. Which reminds me, Fin and I want the single engine tank busting planes available at V bases.  :D
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: icepac on March 07, 2014, 10:51:15 PM
What is your source for the MiG-3 armament options?

Some of it was from Hitech's previous sim called warbirds and some information came from the russian guys who stole the sim and added russian planes to the planeset.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 07, 2014, 11:05:49 PM
This page talks about improving armament for the MiG-3.  There were only 52 MiG-3's outfitted with cannon, and more but still a small number with gun pods, which were usually removed in the field because they ruined the performance too much and didn't work well.

From this source:

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/MiG-3early.html
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/latemig-3.html
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Karnak on March 08, 2014, 12:24:25 AM
Some of it was from Hitech's previous sim called warbirds and some information came from the russian guys who stole the sim and added russian planes to the planeset.
I played WarBirds.  There wasn't a MiG-3 in it while HiTech and Pyro were there.  Maybe it was added afterwards, but it wasn't in there when they were there.

Your list of armaments looks very suspiciously like Il-2's list of armaments, many or most of which were on paper only and never saw flight, let alone action.  Some Russians hacking WarBirds and adding Russian aircraft is hardly a reliable source either, just as I wouldn't trust American, British, German or Japanese players to not add every one off or might have been superplane for their favored nation either.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Tilt on March 08, 2014, 02:20:41 AM
I suppose the Beaufighter / A26 are the outstanding ac that would be widely appreciated. I think the Yak1 and Pe2 would complete the Russian set until the IL10 were added which would be somewhat uber.

For me the development of a PTAB for the IL 2 would be a significant step in ground attack combat.

We approach IMO a development threshold. I think mobile artillery , marine warfare/submarines, infantry etc. would start to expand the game in new and interesting directions...... Each being interesting topics in them selves


Perhaps new graphics and terrain / spawn modelling would create a better platform for such developments.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: save on March 08, 2014, 02:31:51 AM
Mig-3 have never been in Warbirds.
Yak3 was in WB, it was very fast but could not fly nose up  like AH's does. It also snapped in tight turns, much like the 190 in AH does.

I played WarBirds.  There wasn't a MiG-3 in it while HiTech and Pyro were there.  Maybe it was added afterwards, but it wasn't in there when they were there.

Your list of armaments looks very suspiciously like Il-2's list of armaments, many or most of which were on paper only and never saw flight, let alone action.  Some Russians hacking WarBirds and adding Russian aircraft is hardly a reliable source either, just as I wouldn't trust American, British, German or Japanese players to not add every one off or might have been superplane for their favored nation either.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: RotBaron on March 08, 2014, 04:51:22 AM
This thread has become eto centric. There are a lot Eastern pacific and Australians playing, or were, I don't hear them as often on the Knight side as I used to.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Debrody on March 08, 2014, 06:12:42 AM
I vote this

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blender/g55_01_zps59c55c4c.png) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/fieldsofink/media/blender/g55_01_zps59c55c4c.png.html)

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blender/g55_02_zps946ed9b8.png) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/fieldsofink/media/blender/g55_02_zps946ed9b8.png.html)

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blender/g55_zpsdbc183fa.png) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/fieldsofink/media/blender/g55_zpsdbc183fa.png.html)
yess.
or a Ju188 (Ju-88 remodel too)
109G/AS
Ju-52 (?)
Whirlwind
Spit-XII
Beaufighter
Pe-2
Lagg-3
Mig-3
J2M
Ki-44
P-61
P-63
D-520
110, A20, B5n, Tempest remodels
All beauties. Still, the new terrain engine looks good enough, i cant say a bad word.  :aok
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: LCADolby on March 08, 2014, 06:18:11 AM
adding AS versions of the 109s would be of great help bridge the gap to the Allied Escort Fighters.

109E3, E7, F2 as an added bonus
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: BnZs on March 08, 2014, 06:32:56 AM
Spad!!!
(http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/photo_gallery/spad13/images/scott_enochs/scott_enochs-spad13-002.jpg)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: -ammo- on March 08, 2014, 07:33:55 AM
I have put a lot of thought into this and I am convinced the best new addition for the game and the community wod be a brand spanking new P-47D23 :airplane:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Saxman on March 08, 2014, 07:49:22 AM
Spad!!!
(http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/photo_gallery/spad13/images/scott_enochs/scott_enochs-spad13-002.jpg)

Yeah, the lack of the SPAD in WWI is pretty glaring.

This thread has become eto centric. There are a lot Eastern pacific and Australians playing, or were, I don't hear them as often on the Knight side as I used to.

And I agree. Western Europe really doesn't need any particular attention right now, and arguably neither does the Eastern Front. You could make some arguments for the Italians, but one that's mediated by any scenario legitimately being able to fill gaps with German aircraft. The Japanese plane set is still full of glaring holes that there's no substitute for. They have no mid/late-war carrier bombers (B6N/D4Y). No high-altitude fighters/interceptors (Ki-100, J2M). No heavy fighter (Ki-45).
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 08, 2014, 08:12:34 AM
No new planes. Focus on updating the older models.

As much as there a couple of new planes I'd like to see. I have to agree with this. With the magnificence of the new terrain and water graphics. Im afraid everything that moves or fights may look just a wee bit out of place
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Shifty on March 08, 2014, 08:13:50 AM
I have put a lot of thought into this and I am convinced the best new addition for the game and the community wod be a brand spanking new P-47D23 :airplane:

 :lol
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: jimson on March 08, 2014, 08:34:40 AM
The KI-27 Nate, while not being particularly useful in the LW would give 2 of our existing planes, I-16 and P40C, their historical opponent, and would be usefull in SEA, AVA, and in missions.


(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll149/jimsom88/df-ki-27-nate_zps2e5bec46.jpg) (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/jimsom88/media/df-ki-27-nate_zps2e5bec46.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Kazaa on March 08, 2014, 08:58:18 AM
More tanks
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Lusche on March 08, 2014, 09:10:12 AM
More tanks


 :aok
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: BnZs on March 08, 2014, 09:19:18 AM
Yeah, the lack of the SPAD in WWI is pretty glaring.
.

100th anniversary of the outbreak of the Great War just around the corner. Some more attention may be turned to it in the next few years, making a viable WWI planeset a possible attractant.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: icepac on March 08, 2014, 10:02:42 AM
I played WarBirds.  There wasn't a MiG-3 in it while HiTech and Pyro were there.  Maybe it was added afterwards, but it wasn't in there when they were there.

Your list of armaments looks very suspiciously like Il-2's list of armaments, many or most of which were on paper only and never saw flight, let alone action.  Some Russians hacking WarBirds and adding Russian aircraft is hardly a reliable source either, just as I wouldn't trust American, British, German or Japanese players to not add every one off or might have been superplane for their favored nation either.

I've never played IL2.

Over 300 Mig3 were armed with 2x ubs 12.7 in the cowling with 700 rounds each.

55 had 2x 20mm shvak in the cowling simply replacing the two UBS 12.7 shown in the picture below.

That's more than the total production of the TA152.

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/2ubs2.jpg)

Over 800 were made with 5 guns (3x 12.7 ubs and 2x 7.62)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/gunpod2.jpg)

They experimented with many different configurations and often threw them into combat.......sometimes in numbers higher than the total production of planes we have in game.

I still can't find the 3x ubs in the nose or 2 ubk in the wings that I remember but I haven't searched much.

The purpose was to refute the "weak guns" claim because it just isn't true.



Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Karnak on March 08, 2014, 10:30:35 AM
I've never played IL2.

Over 300 Mig3 were armed with 2x ubs 12.7 in the cowling with 700 rounds each.

55 had 2x 20mm shvak in the cowling simply replacing the two UBS 12.7 shown in the picture below.

That's more than the total production of the TA152.

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/2ubs2.jpg)

Over 800 were made with 5 guns (3x 12.7 ubs and 2x 7.62)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/gunpod2.jpg)

They experimented with many different configurations and often threw them into combat.......sometimes in numbers higher than the total production of planes we have in game.

I still can't find the 3x ubs in the nose or 2 ubk in the wings that I remember but I haven't searched much.

The purpose was to refute the "weak guns" claim because it just isn't true.

Per Brooke's post here the gondolas that you show a photo of were usually removed:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,359870.msg4776341.html#msg4776341

Also, referencing the Ta152 is kinda silly as it benefited from reused artwork from the Fw190s.  The MiG-3 wouldn't benefit from that and, yes, it would be undergunned, particularly considering it would need to rely on BnZ and not sustained tracking shots like the Spit I, Hurri I and Ki-43 can obtain due to their turning ability.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 08, 2014, 01:07:31 PM
and arguably neither does the Eastern Front.

We don't have the main Soviet fighters from 1941 to 1943.

The Yak-1 would be best choice (more produced, and a more-popular fighter).
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 08, 2014, 01:26:54 PM
We've reached the point (some time back) where equipment updates become an historical event hole filling and immersion enhancement issue more than anything else. I think Brooke, Tmetal and Sax are onto something.

I'd like to see the next two planes modeled be the TBD and Yak-1 (in that order). Other details like IJN CV and cruiser variants would be nice.

I'm sure everyone is also looking to the upcoming graphics enhancements.

And .... of course .... the Sparviero.  :D
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Widewing on March 08, 2014, 08:09:00 PM
We don't have the main Soviet fighters from 1941 to 1943.

The Yak-1 would be best choice (more produced, and a more-popular fighter).

If they were going to introduce the Yak-1, they would have done so with the recent Yak update. I don't understand why the Yak-1 would be desperately needed. The Yak-7 was a two seat derivative of the I-26, which was the prototype of the Yak-1. In terms of performance, the current Yak-7 is very similar to the Yak-1. It has a second MG, so is better armed (not much better). Easy to create, so there's not the labor of a new plane. Still, little different from the Yak-7....

TBD... Sure, it was significant in the first 6 months of the war. Just remember that the TBF was used at Midway too (and fared no better than the TBD). Aside from occasional scenarios, this will be the Queen Bee of Hanger Queens. Almost no bang for the programming buck..

I don't believe that we will see either any time soon, if ever.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 08, 2014, 08:11:56 PM
If they were going to introduce the Yak-1, they would have done so with the recent Yak update. I don't understand why the Yak-1 would be desperately needed. The Yak-7 was a two seat derivative of the I-26, which was the prototype of the Yak-1. In terms of performance, the current Yak-7 is very similar to the Yak-1. It has a second MG, so is better armed (not much better). Easy to create, so there's not the labor of a new plane. Still, little different from the Yak-7....

TBD... Sure, it was significant in the first 6 months of the war. Just remember that the TBF was used at Midway too (and fared no better than the TBD). Aside from occasional scenarios, this will be the Queen Bee of Hanger Queens. Almost no bang for the programming buck..

I don't believe that we will see either any time soon, if ever.

Whatcha think about an IJN carrier and cruiser?
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: 999000 on March 08, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
1. PBY..with torps, dep charges when we get subs, earn big perks for picking up down pilots at sea.
2. Normandy gliders with troops supplies and jeeps,  howliters?
3. fleets with 2-3 CV's
4. Subs again
5. Large LVTS where a whole squad of tanks are landed at once.
6. Flame throwing anything!
7. Blimps!
8. Shawk Fatheads for everyones wall!
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Karnak on March 08, 2014, 08:19:53 PM
Whatcha think about an IJN carrier and cruiser?
Problem with them is that they wouldn't have the proximity fuses that the US ships have.

Now, for scenarios it would be great to be able to turn off the proximity fuses on American ships as well as they didn't arrive until late in the war.

For MA purposes I'd suggest each nation getting two American CV task forces and two Japanese CV task forces.  The Japanese ones would be easier to sink, but with each side getting two of each it would be even.

If a British CV group were also added then 3 or 6 CV groups per side, even divided between the three types.  I don't know if the Brits ever got the proximity fuses, but their CVs could be modeled as tougher to compensate for being physically smaller, and therefor harder to operate off of, than the USN and IJN CVs.


999000,

You might enjoy the H8K2 'Emily' as well.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 08, 2014, 08:34:49 PM
Problem with them is that they wouldn't have the proximity fuses that the US ships have.

Now, for scenarios it would be great to be able to turn off the proximity fuses on American ships as well as they didn't arrive until late in the war.

For MA purposes I'd suggest each nation getting two American CV task forces and two Japanese CV task forces.  The Japanese ones would be easier to sink, but with each side getting two of each it would be even.

If a British CV group were also added then 3 or 6 CV groups per side, even divided between the three types.  I don't know if the Brits ever got the proximity fuses, but their CVs could be modeled as tougher to compensate for being physically smaller, and therefor harder to operate off of, than the USN and IJN CVs.


999000,

You might enjoy the H8K2 'Emily' as well.

Players (some) have been complaining for years about carrier flak. In that regard, perhaps it would alleviate (in part) another 'problem' ... not be one. Three types of carrier tasks forces sounds wonderful to me. Add battleships and have five or six types of task forces, overall (put the LSTs in the battleship TFs). It may draw in some of the surface fleet type of players. It would certainly enhance things for event players, as is. This is a wishlist conversation (in this thread and others).  :D
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 08, 2014, 10:43:54 PM
If they were going to introduce the Yak-1, they would have done so with the recent Yak update. I don't understand why the Yak-1 would be desperately needed. The Yak-7 was a two seat derivative of the I-26, which was the prototype of the Yak-1. In terms of performance, the current Yak-7 is very similar to the Yak-1. It has a second MG, so is better armed (not much better). Easy to create, so there's not the labor of a new plane. Still, little different from the Yak-7....

TBD... Sure, it was significant in the first 6 months of the war. Just remember that the TBF was used at Midway too (and fared no better than the TBD). Aside from occasional scenarios, this will be the Queen Bee of Hanger Queens. Almost no bang for the programming buck..

I don't believe that we will see either any time soon, if ever.

They might lack the flight-test data to model the Yak-1, or it might be more difficult to obtain or to implement than just copying the Yak-7b with minor modifications.

I'm not sure if the Yak-7b is close to the Yak-1, but in scenarios, we like if possible to have the planes that were there.  80% of fighting in WWII in Europe was Germany vs. the Soviets, but we don't have some of the main Soviet fighters from 1941 to 1943, the Yak-1 being one of them.  It's why we wanted the He 111 for Battle of Britain, and why we want the TBD as well.  For two of the most-important naval battles of WWII -- Coral Sea and Midway -- the TBD was the US torpedo bomber.

Bang for the programming buck depends.  For people who don't care about any special events, yes, anything involving special events has no bang for the buck.  But special events are very important to a significant number of people, not just for scenarios, but for FSO's (which has a large draw), This Day in WWII, SEC's, Snapshots, etc.

My feeling is that HTC does over time want to fill out plane sets for special events, or we wouldn't have the G4M, He 111, P-39, P-40, B5N, D3A, Ju 87, B-25, etc., and maybe not the Bf 109E, Spit I, Hurri I, C.202, A6M2, etc. as well.  I'd bet that we do eventually get the Yak-1 and TBD.  ;)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 08, 2014, 10:48:38 PM
By the way, Widewing, when are we going to be able to entice you to play in a scenario?  :aok
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Wmaker on March 09, 2014, 06:42:21 AM
And I agree. Western Europe really doesn't need any particular attention right now, and arguably neither does the Eastern Front. ....The Japanese plane set is still full of glaring holes that there's no substitute for. They have no mid/late-war carrier bombers (B6N/D4Y). No high-altitude fighters/interceptors (Ki-100, J2M). No heavy fighter (Ki-45).

Completely biased statement. You mention holes in the Japanese planeset and at the same time dismiss similar holes in the Eastern Front as "not needing attention".

For example there still isn't a representative Soviet bomber for special events. For example the need for J2M/Ki-100 is history/speacial event-wise completely non-existent compared to the need for a Pe-2.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: -ammo- on March 09, 2014, 06:45:39 AM
Yeah, the lack of the SPAD in WWI is pretty glaring.

And I agree. Western Europe really doesn't need any particular attention right now, and arguably neither does the Eastern Front. You could make some arguments for the Italians, but one that's mediated by any scenario legitimately being able to fill gaps with German aircraft. The Japanese plane set is still full of glaring holes that there's no substitute for. They have no mid/late-war carrier bombers (B6N/D4Y). No high-altitude fighters/interceptors (Ki-100, J2M). No heavy fighter (Ki-45).

Yea, but have you sent a bribe to HTC like us ETO weenies did?  Good luck.  Your response is well thought out and relevant.

 :bolt:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Reaper90 on March 09, 2014, 08:30:38 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/SimonPrime/WestlandWhirlwind.jpg)

Crikey says HI!

  :banana:




 :pray :pray :pray
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: F77 on March 09, 2014, 10:28:43 AM
If a British CV group were also added then 3 or 6 CV groups per side, even divided between the three types.  I don't know if the Brits ever got the proximity fuses, but their CVs could be modeled as tougher to compensate for being physically smaller, and therefor harder to operate off of, than the USN and IJN CVs.

Give us an Illustrious Class! Armoured flight decks :)  None were lost during the war.  Illustrious herself launched the Taranto Raid on the Italian fleet in harbour using Swordfish.  This brought a massive reprisal attack from the Germans that, given her armour, she survived despite direct hits from multiple 1000lbs, and, unfortunately gave the Japanese the idea for Pearl Harbour.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Greebo on March 09, 2014, 10:46:15 AM
I think an escort carrier would make a more interesting MA addition. Just have the lighter fighters like Sea Hurricanes, A6Ms and F4Fs plus the naval bombers operating from it but no F6Fs or F4Us. Maybe give the fleet an AA cruiser or even a battleship to compensate.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: bozon on March 09, 2014, 11:47:48 AM
I think an escort carrier would make a more interesting MA addition. Just have the lighter fighters like Sea Hurricanes, A6Ms and F4Fs plus the naval bombers operating from it but no F6Fs or F4Us. Maybe give the fleet an AA cruiser or even a battleship to compensate.
Could be an interesting addition. Did they also sail faster than the large CVs?
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Lusche on March 09, 2014, 12:12:41 PM
Did they also sail faster than the large CVs?


Most classes of light/escort carriers were significantly slower than regular CV's with few exceptions like the Independence class, which was about as fast.

For MA use i think CVL/CVE carriers might not be too much of use. Less defensive capabilities and much smaller (smaller than our CA), thus even easier to sink

Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Lusche on March 09, 2014, 12:15:28 PM
Give us an Illustrious Class! Armoured flight decks :)  None were lost during the war.

None was hit by 42x1000lb bombs from a low level Lancaster formation...  :P
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: F77 on March 09, 2014, 12:52:46 PM
Neither was anything else  :neener:

The Illustrious class was designed to be self reliant for defence, i.e. not dependent on it's fighter cover.  Hence the armour and an armament that would put the cruiser to shame!
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: bozon on March 09, 2014, 01:04:48 PM
Neither was anything else  :neener:

The Illustrious class was designed to be self reliant for defence, i.e. not dependent on it's fighter cover.  Hence the armour and an armament that would put the cruiser to shame!
except that the cruiser in AH can be sank with a hand granade.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: LCADolby on March 09, 2014, 01:26:38 PM
except that the cruiser in AH can be sank with a hand granade.

Good luck not only lifting a 2000lb hand grenade but throwing one!
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Rich46yo on March 09, 2014, 03:37:22 PM
Illustrious Class is a interesting suggestion. By no means was it an "escort CV" but they were smaller then  the Essex and could fit the "escort" role.

Even better if we got the Fairy Firefly with it. :D
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: save on March 09, 2014, 04:07:09 PM
When you see me-410s strafe down a cruiser you go hmmmm, cant complain about those guns.


except that the cruiser in AH can be sank with a hand granade.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: F77 on March 09, 2014, 04:11:45 PM
Hmmm, Battle of Taranto scenario anyone?  Illustrious & lots of Swordfish!  :cool:

Also given the armament of Illustrious an AA Cruiser wouldn't be necessary.  Repulse or Renown?
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 09, 2014, 05:00:46 PM
When you see me-410s strafe down a cruiser you go hmmmm, cant complain about those guns.



Do the math.  The 410 can deliver a massive amount of damage via the guns.  Ever done the math on the 6/20mm?  Or the dual 30mm?  Impressive.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Karnak on March 09, 2014, 05:24:48 PM
Speaking of straffing ships down, perhaps we ought to ask for the tank armor model be applied to the ships rather than the simplistic x amount of damage to destroy like hangers model.  Armor the cruiser and kill straffing it down with any airplane goodbye.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Fish42 on March 09, 2014, 05:41:37 PM
Speaking of straffing ships down, perhaps we ought to ask for the tank armor model be applied to the ships rather than the simplistic x amount of damage to destroy like hangers model.  Armor the cruiser and kill straffing it down with any airplane goodbye.

+1

Though ship damage would have to be remodeled. Magazine hits would be 1 hit, no matter the size of ord as long as it penned. Hitting the boilers on the ships would cause a lose of speed and force the ship to drop out or lag behind the fleet. The CV if slowed would be harder to launch from with heavy fighters, so it would not be a all or nothing airbase.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Widewing on March 09, 2014, 06:04:54 PM
Do the math.  The 410 can deliver a massive amount of damage via the guns.  Ever done the math on the 6/20mm?  Or the dual 30mm?  Impressive.

In game; in the real world all that would be required is a painting detail to be mustered.... For game play, the effectiveness of short to medium range triple A of a late war carrier and escorts is turned way down. An Essex class CV could put 46,000 lbs of anti-air ordnance (all types) into the sky every 60 seconds. A Baltimore class heavy cruiser could put up 34,500 lbs per minute (by comparison, an Iowa class BB could put up 49,000 lbs per minute).  Fletcher class DDs could put up just over 12,000 lbs. So, in the 60 seconds a formation of low bombers is within range of long (5"/38), medium (40mm) and short (20mm Orlikon), how much ordnance could be fired at them? The total available is 128,500 lbs. Figure on no less than half that if the bombers are the only target. That's real world... Not in Aces High.

Since the AI shoots at targets based upon closest first, much of the CV group's firepower is wasted on inconsequential targets. I don't believe any 40mm is fired, except that which is manned. Random 5" and 20mm are the defense if no guns are manned by players. This is the major reason aircraft can easily get to a carrier...  

If the game truly reflected the defensive firepower of a actual carrier battle group, very few aircraft would get anywhere near the CV, especially level bombers flying a steady course at a steady speed. The radar directed 5" guns would obliterate them miles out.



Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Widewing on March 09, 2014, 06:11:46 PM
+1

Though ship damage would have to be remodeled. Magazine hits would be 1 hit, no matter the size of ord as long as it penned. Hitting the boilers on the ships would cause a lose of speed and force the ship to drop out or lag behind the fleet. The CV if slowed would be harder to launch from with heavy fighters, so it would not be a all or nothing airbase.

CVs had bow cats, meaning that they could launch aircraft from anchor. I took a few cat shots (waist cats) while at anchor in the late 70s. The biggest threat to carriers was fire....  I can't think of one U.S. fleet carrier that was sunk by bombs alone.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Saxman on March 09, 2014, 10:13:26 PM
CVs had bow cats, meaning that they could launch aircraft from anchor. I took a few cat shots (waist cats) while at anchor in the late 70s. The biggest threat to carriers was fire....  I can't think of one U.S. fleet carrier that was sunk by bombs alone.

Something I find more interesting: None of the American fleet carriers (except maybe Ranger) made it out of 1942 without taking severe damage. However Yorktown, Hornet, Lexington and Wasp all shared one thing in common that Enterprise didn't: They were all torpedoed, and that provided the fatal damage (Saratoga was torpedoed, too, but she managed to make it home).

I would LOVE to see more depth to the task group damage model. IE, the ineffectiveness of small-caliber guns (aside from maybe being able to take out the 20mm and 40mm emplacements), differences in the effects of torpedo hits vs. bomb hits, and even implementing the damaging effects of near-misses. Just having "X lbs of damage sinks the ship" is really oversimplifying things.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 10, 2014, 04:26:42 PM
differences in the effects of torpedo hits vs. bomb hits, and even implementing the damaging effects of near-misses. Just having "X lbs of damage sinks the ship" is really oversimplifying things.

That's implemented already.  lbs damage that a bomb does is just a measure of cumulative effect.  Mk 14 torpedoes had 643 lbs of explosive, but they do something like 4000 lbs of damage in AH.  An AN-M65 1000 lb GP bomb had 595 lbs of explosive and does 1000 lbs of damage in AH.  Also, the GP bomb has a blast radius, so if you drop it in the water close enough to a ship, some amount of damage (depending on how close it is) affects the ship.  AP does more damage if it hits and has less blast radius, and so on.

It's not easy to estimate the effect of different types of hits.  It depended a lot on the situation.  There are ships that survived lots of hits, and some that were sunk (or nearly sunk) with one bomb hit.

Also, historically, CV's taking a hit or two or a kamikaze, even if not sunk, tended to be knocked out of operation.  In AH, they stay in operation until they sink.

Some historical stats for US BB's and CV's -- see section "Ship Hardness" at the end of this document:
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200706_husky/rules.html
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Saxman on March 10, 2014, 04:32:46 PM
Pretty sure it had been stated before that bombs don't cause damage on a near-miss, it's got to actually hit.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Skuzzy on March 10, 2014, 04:41:52 PM
Pretty sure it had been stated before that bombs don't cause damage on a near-miss, it's got to actually hit.

Brooke has it correct.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Lusche on March 10, 2014, 05:03:19 PM
Pretty sure it had been stated before that bombs don't cause damage on a near-miss, it's got to actually hit.


Damage happening from a near miss (2000lb GP bomb):

(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/nearby_zps6fd40fe0.jpg)

Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 10, 2014, 05:25:08 PM
Some historical stats for US BB's and CV's -- see section "Ship Hardness" at the end of this document:
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200706_husky/rules.html

Copied here for ease of reference:

Research on ship hardness of battleships is based on what it took to sink battleships at Pearl Harbor and what it took to sink US carriers throughout WWII. The battleship data is from http://plasma.nationalgeographic.com/pearlharbor/history/pearlharbor_facts.html , and the carrier data is from Wikipedia on various carriers. For carriers that weren't sunk, some of them survived mutliple attacks separated by time or by ability to repair some damage in between attacks. For those, I list only the estimated most-damaging attack that they survived and not all the attacks. The torpedo typically carried by the Japanese B5N "Kate" torpedo bomber was the type 91 torpedo, which typically had 529 lbs of explosive. The largest torpedo typically carried by Japanese submarines was the type 95 torpedo, which had 893 lbs of explosive. The most-common bomb carried by the Japanese D3A "Val" divebomber had 551 lbs of explosive.

Battleship Damage Taken -- Result
California (BB-44) 2 torpedo hits; 1 bomb hit -- sunk
Maryland (BB-46) 2 bomb hits -- not sunk
Oklahoma (BB-37) 5 torpedo hits -- sunk
Tennessee (BB-43) 2 bomb hits -- not sunk
West Virginia (BB-48) 6 torpedo hits; 2 bomb hits -- sunk
Arizona (BB-39) 1 torpedo hit; 8 bomb hits -- sunk
Pennsylvania (BB-38) 2 bomb hits -- not sunk
Nevada (BB-36) 1 torpedo hit; 6 bomb hits -- not sunk
Utah (BB-31) 2 torpedo hits -- sunk

Carrier Damage Taken -- Result
Lexington (CV-2) 2 torpedoes; 3 bombs -- sunk
Saratoga (CV-3) 6 bombs -- not sunk
Yorktown (CV-5) 2 torpedoes; 3 bombs -- sunk
Enterprise (CV-6) 3 bombs -- not sunk
Wasp (CV-7) 2 torpedoes -- sunk
Hornet (CV-8) 3 torpedoes; 5 bombs -- sunk
Essex (CV-9) kamikaze -- not sunk
Yorktown (CV-10) 1 bomb -- not sunk
Intrepid (CV-11) 1 torpedo -- not sunk
Franklin (CV-13) kamikaze -- not sunk
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: F77 on March 10, 2014, 06:02:50 PM
It appears as if only one british carrier was sunk by aircraft, that being HMS Hermes by the Japanese, whilst five were torpedoed by German U-boats, one by engagement by german surface vessels, the last from internal explosion of unknown cause.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 10, 2014, 06:32:54 PM
Adding British CV's:

Glorious, numerous hits from naval gunfire, sunk
Courageous, 2 torps, sunk
Furious, 1 bomb (small), not sunk
Eagle, 4 torps, sunk
Hermes, multitude of bomb hits, sunk
Ark Royal, 1 torp, sunk
Unicorn, no hits, not sunk
Illustrious, 6 bombs, not sunk
Formidable, 3 kamikazes, not sunk
Victorious, 1 kamikaze, not sunk
Indomitable, 2 bombs, not sunk
Implacable, no hits, not sunk
Indefatigable, 1 kamikaze, not sunk

Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: F77 on March 10, 2014, 06:47:34 PM
 :cool:  :salute
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Karnak on March 10, 2014, 07:14:03 PM
Franklin was bombed, not kamikazed.  The Japanese dive bomber that hit her also escaped.  One or two bomb hits.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Reaper90 on March 10, 2014, 08:13:10 PM
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:  :banana: :banana: CRIKEY!!!!  :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6134/frp2.jpg)
 :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:




 :pray :pray :pray
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: GScholz on March 10, 2014, 09:22:49 PM
Glorious, numerous hits from naval gunfire, sunk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=np3Dwzl2_5A#t=142
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: BluBerry on March 10, 2014, 09:34:02 PM

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6134/frp2.jpg)

ew
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 10, 2014, 09:38:42 PM
Franklin was bombed, not kamikazed.  The Japanese dive bomber that hit her also escaped.  One or two bomb hits.

It took a kamikaze hit near Leyte, but you are right about the major attack on it being two bombs, and not kamikaze.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: MK-84 on March 10, 2014, 10:45:37 PM
I would like to see the following in no particular order:
Bristol Beaufighter
Westland Whirlwind
Gloster Meteor
Updated Bf110
SU-100
SdKfz 234 "puma"
IS-2 soviet tank
Kawanishi H8k
KV-1 and KV-2 soviet tanks
He177
Mitsubishi J2M
Fiat G.55




Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Reaper90 on March 11, 2014, 05:08:58 AM
ew

YOU SHUT YOUR potato MOUTH!!!!

 :rofl
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Debrody on March 11, 2014, 07:33:02 AM
...
...
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6134/frp2.jpg)
...


 :pray :pray :pray
The proof that the British have stolen the 262's plans but being unable to produce reliable jet engines, they had to replace them with the spectecular Rolls-Royce Vulture powerplants  :neener:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: BluBerry on March 11, 2014, 11:21:09 AM
YOU SHUT YOUR potato MOUTH!!!!

 :rofl

 :lol
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: ReVo on March 11, 2014, 02:18:00 PM
If the next ride added isn't the Ki-100 I shall cry tears of blood as it seems to work well for the GVers.

Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 11, 2014, 07:18:31 PM
Then next plane is going to the Defiant.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: RotBaron on March 11, 2014, 10:12:08 PM
If the next ride added isn't the Ki-100 I shall cry tears of blood as it seems to work well for the GVers.




The J2M wishes go back more than 10yrs. I believe most have died from their loss of blood atp.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 12, 2014, 11:10:12 AM
If the next ride added isn't the Ki-100 I shall cry tears of blood as it seems to work well for the GVers.



 :lol
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Hoplite on March 12, 2014, 11:35:00 AM
(http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.6988820.1004/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg)

Come oooonnnnnn!  It's time for a obsolescent hanger queen!  :D

Sea Gladiator would be fun too!


OH....UPDATE THE 110 FIRST!!!!!  please?  :)

Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: SirNuke on March 12, 2014, 11:35:47 AM
Then next plane is going to the Defiant.

level of trolling : WWII  :lol
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: F77 on March 12, 2014, 05:26:19 PM
hmmm, Boulton Paul Defiant could be interesting.... :bolt:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Tilt on March 12, 2014, 05:54:43 PM
Well in that case lets have the ol Stringbag!

(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/AUS5Ho5Msyc/maxresdefault.jpg)

with both fixed gear and floatplane options............
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 13, 2014, 12:38:43 AM
Then next plane is going to the Defiant.

 Awesome Beans!!!  :aok

The Squads gonna be abit cheery mate!
(http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/NewStories-A/In%20Praise%20of%20the%20Squadron%20Pooch/Pooch35.jpg)

 :lol
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 13, 2014, 12:48:48 AM
Re: your sig. Adding Australia is like adding Canada (it's already in game, like the rest of the British Commonwealth).  France? Meh. ;)
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: LLv34_Dictonius on March 13, 2014, 04:08:38 AM
Yak-1
Beaufighter
Mig-3
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Hoplite on March 13, 2014, 07:10:54 AM
Yak-1
Beaufighter
Mig-3


Forgot about the Mig-3.  I can get behind that vote as well.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Oldman731 on March 13, 2014, 07:16:19 AM
hmmm, Boulton Paul Defiant could be interesting....


Defiant was a great plane, simply misunderstood and misused! 

Would probably have to be perked in AH.

(**busily searches through old threads, looking for Me-110 apologist excuses**)

- oldman
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Kazan_HB on March 13, 2014, 09:28:15 AM
No for another soviet plane!  :furious
my list:
Dewoitine D520
J2M3
Fiat G55
PZL P24  :bolt:
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: craz07 on March 13, 2014, 10:26:16 AM
update the older models to go along with terrain and water please
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: hotcoffe on March 13, 2014, 11:07:59 AM
actually eventho was a biplane, the swordfish torpedo bombers where used successfully during the WWII by Brits in couple operations...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3JxwrkRf08

So it might be a good addition to game.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Brooke on March 13, 2014, 11:34:14 AM
The Gigant.  Definitely the Gigant.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: Arlo on March 13, 2014, 11:35:52 AM
The Gigant.  Definitely the Gigant.

With 20 mms.
Title: Re: Next new plane
Post by: SirNuke on March 13, 2014, 11:56:03 AM
PZL P24  :bolt:

(http://hyperscale.com/2007/features/images/pzlp2472md_6.jpg)

Love the looks  :aok