http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/07/malaysia-airlines-loses-contact-with-plane-carrying-23-people/
Prayers for all the souls aboard. They lost radar contact over land....there is hope
2 hours into the flight, one would assume they were up very high. For the pilots to not report a problem indicates something nasty and fasty :(
Second 777 accident inside a year.. :O
Dont know if it was an "accident". The 777 has a very good safety record overall.
The fact it came from Malaysia, and the very odd way it vanished, seems to make every expert 'think" it was something other then an accident. But they arent quite saying it. Are there any Pilots here? Is this as odd as it sounds?
2 hours into the flight, one would assume they were up very high. For the pilots to not report a problem indicates something nasty and fasty :(
hmmmm, i think cnn reported pilot Amman Withabom tho reports of a possible asian co pilot Dis Shew Goboom, stay tuned.
Dude.................really?
The news here reported that two of the passengers passports were fake...
I agree. That kind of comment is in very poor taste and shows a lack of compassion, an immature streak that is worse than most on here and bad judgement.
:huh
I agree. That kind of comment is in very poor taste and shows a lack of compassion, an immature streak that is worse than most on here and bad judgement.i thought it was funny...but then i'm one of those that truly lacks compassion.
:huh
Anyone notice the pilot and co-pilot's names? :noid
(Yes, I know that Malaysia's primary religion is Islam)
i thought it was funny...but then i'm one of those that truly lacks compassion.
Sociopath?that's newb mode...
Anyone notice the pilot and co-pilot's names? :noid:rolleyes:
(Yes, I know that Malaysia's primary religion is Islam)
sorry, "The flight was piloted by Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a Malaysian aged 53, according to the airline. He has a total of 18,365 flying hours and joined Malaysia Airlines in 1981."
:pray A tragedy, I hope it was not murder.
:rolleyes:
Be real. If it is terrorism it is likely those responsible are/were Muslim it is also true that the vast majority of Muslims have never committed a terrorist act.
It is highly unlikely this was an intentional act by the crew. I am much more interested in the stolen passports and if there is a group with particular grievances with either Malaysia's government or China's government.
Same here. There is something wrong with two stolen passports on board. I really dont believe in coincidencesI can come up with a quick scenario where it is coincidence as well though.
I can come up with a quick scenario where it is coincidence as well though.
International crime group who, among other things, sells stolen passports to people who otherwise couldn't get a passport. Two people, traveling together, from Malaysia or originating elsewhere, who want to go to Beijing but fall into that category of people who wouldn't be able to obtain valid passports for whatever reason so they buy a couple stolen passports so they can go where they want. Whatever reason is blocking these two people has nothing to do with the loss of the aircraft and ultimately they are just two more unlucky passengers on a doomed aircraft.
Not saying that is what happened, but it is a plausible "innocent" explanation for the stolen passports.
What I cannot believe is these are multi-billion dollar planes, but yet they still have no GPS or satellite positioning system for such events as this.
What I cannot believe is these are multi-billion dollar planes, but yet they still have no GPS or satellite positioning system for such events as this.
Strange they still have not found it. It's a big ocean though.
You would also think if it was terrorism some group would have claimed responsibility by now.
Just going to throw this out there, why isn't anyone asking "where is the ACARS datalink data?"
Strange they still have not found it. It's a big ocean though.
You would also think if it was terrorism some group would have claimed responsibility by now.
hmmmm, i think cnn reported pilot Amman Withabom tho reports of a possible asian co pilot Dis Shew Goboom, stay tuned.
hmmmm, i think cnn reported pilot Amman Withabom tho reports of a possible asian co pilot Dis Shew Goboom, stay tuned.
Gman, only a Nokia 3210 could survive that fall :old:..owned by Chuck Norris...
If it blew up you'd have to think they would have found the debris field by now. Its no secret "where" the plane was cause it was on multiple Dars. If there was a technical problem you'd have to think they would have gotten a message off.
Its starting to look like the pilot rode the thing into the water. Its happened a few times in the past. Of course Im just guessing.
I was thinking 787 / battery fire. If they had a battery blow out and blackout, they wouldn't be able to send any distress message.The 777 doesn't have the same battery configuration (nor did they use the new lithium batt packs) as the 787 *had* before the fires.
The 777 doesn't have the same battery configuration (nor did they use the new lithium batt packs) as the 787 *had* before the fires.
I was thinking 787 / battery fire. If they had a battery blow out and blackout, they wouldn't be able to send any distress message.
From what Ive read there is nothing mechanical that could cause a complete comms blackout. To many backups.
Real piss poor taste there don't you think? I guess you tired to make a funny but guess what it sucked.
Just going to throw this out there, why isn't anyone asking "where is the ACARS datalink data?"
Could it have been taken one to remote place and used against NATO with this Russia (in other words as security unofficialy?
Its unlikely as it would still have been tracked by radar. Unless someone has come up with a super stealth design u can retrofit in mid-air.
It lost FULL radar contact at 35,000 feet... over WATER.
The only thing that could cause that is a total failure of the aircraft's integrity. Explosive decompression... or more likely, a bomb. The signal would register a major drop in altitude before disappearing as the plane broke up after a structural failure. Or the pilots would inform ATC of a problem. This would have to have been sudden, and catastrophic failure of the aircraft decreasing the mass of the aircraft instantly and cutting all power to communications and the transponder.Basically correct,
Seeing as it operates on the Boeing system it could be the old Hawaii airlines syndrome. (Dad and I never miss Air Crash Investigations) Its operating in Asia. Lots of short hops and constant pressurizing and depressurizing causing cracks that results in explosive decompression. But Malaysian airlines has an outstanding safety record. They have had almost NO accidents in their operational history.
My best guess would be that the stolen passports are actually the beginnings of this. It may be a red herring I know "but if you eliminate all possibilities the impossible however unlikely must be the truth".
Noe. You kill transponder and say uplinks and am homefree
Has any terrorist organization taken credit yet?
NOE, at night, through the Vietnamese mountainous jungle in a 777..... :headscratch:Seems legit. Right?
I was implying that terrorist blew the plane up. Add in the introduced topic of ethnicity. Add in the last 777 to go down and the falsely reported names. quite the recipe for a funny. I bit much for some I see. :ahand
well considering that the airplane was out of an Islamic country, what are the odds that there would be an ethnic Islamic passenger or pilot? I would say the odds are very low :rolleyes:
semp
Can a pilot turn off all types of communication? :headscratch:
I read that they can turn off the comms and transponder but that would only effect civil radar by not showing the speed and altitude...not making the plane invisible to civil radar, like I first thought...military radar could have tracked it easily but apparently it was nap time in SE Asia :uhoh
By the by, will our resident pilots correct me if I'm wrong
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/11/major-updates-in-malaysia-airlines-mystery-new-information-could-change-everything/
If I were to hazard a guess, I would say the co-pilot hijacked the plane.
This is starting to turn really weird.No joke...
:airplane: There is, of course, a lot of speculation going on as to what happened to the 777 that is missing somewhere in the Southwestern Pacific area. There are a lot of people who are are more knowledgeable about this aircraft than me, but, it has a history of battery problems. The first thing that comes to my mind is the fact that the FAA grounded all of the 777's recently for a short period of time because of battery fires.Earl,
I would assume that cnn and the rest all ready have this but continue to sensationalize the storyNope. Aliens.
From the Chinese Press today translated...11 Mar 2014 21:39
"Exclusive Report: Zhoupei Xia, Huang Cheng fast
(Kuantan, Kota Bharu on the 10th joint hearing) 4, who lives on the east coast of the public police claimed, had at the same time Malaysia Airlines MH370 aircraft lost contact, and witnessed the situation in the South China Sea low-flying aircraft complex explosion!
Sparks thought it was a meteor
Kuantan a construction worker and Kelantan Kuala Besar three fishermen claimed that on the 8th of this month at 1 pm, had seen there over the low-flying aircraft in the sea, and issued a similar spark an explosion sound, then disappear without a trace .
Kelantan where a fisherman also claimed that he witnessed the low-flying aircraft fuselage Malaysia Airlines logo.
Kuala Besar fishing 夫阿兹 Ibrahim (55 years old) said that 308 the same day at about 1:30, when he and his friends fishing together, find a plane flying in the clouds.
Towards the north at low altitude
He said he was at a distance of Kota Bharu Kuala Besar 8 nautical miles of the coast, saw an aircraft flying at low altitude.
"We find it strange, because the fear of low-flying aircraft will crash, but the aircraft continued flying at low altitude towards the north."
Aziz Ibrahim said, along with his fishing friends had a chance to share this with others, on the morning TV news broadcast, Alarmed Malaysia Airlines MH370 aircraft lost contact events.
"Saturday morning, the police come over to me taking statements, followed by police after 17:15 to Kota Bharu police report, provide more information."
Father of five children by Aztec Ibrahim Asked whether there saw smoke or fire when the plane, said the aircraft at the time did not see any abnormality.
Brazil to an eyewitness rich Alif (29 years old) claimed in the house witnessed a group of white, suspected low-flying aircraft.
On the other hand, living in Kuantan Teluk Cecil Road area of Lin Chinese man (37 years, building workers), this afternoon 3:30 to Kuantan police report, refers to himself at 1:00 on the 8th of this month at 15 am to 1:20 or so, when the home outside looking at the sky and saw a plane flying over the area at high altitude.
Sources said that the man appeared instantly saw the plane sparks flew early modern thought it was a meteor, after a few seconds, the object seemed heard an explosion, and soon disappeared after the front, when the aircraft has departed very far.
The man at 11:00 on Saturday morning, was informed that Malaysia Airlines passenger plane lost contact MH370 message today to the police.
The man this afternoon to accept the "China Daily" reporters asked that he was Kuantan who has seen the aircraft flying that day indeed, have learned that the aircraft lost contact, even the thought of the matter or lost contact with the aircraft concerned, we decided to report.
After the low-flying aircraft disappeared Residents: Impossible
Kuala Besar report alleged fisherman fishing at sea, the suspect saw a plane flying low in the sea and then disappeared from sight event, however, refer to local residents say it is impossible.
Local residents Monday told the "China Daily", according to residents over 10 years of fishing experience, only knew from Kuala Besar high altitude flight, all domestic flights, mainly in Asia flight machine as much.
Residents said that Malaysia flights machine routes are flown from Pengkalan Perregaux's 沙柏 altitude.
Because the police were pointing fishermen have been fishing, local residents are reluctant to report.
http://www.chinapress.com.my/ (http://www.chinapress.com.my/)
I would assume that cnn and the rest all ready have this but continue to sensationalize the story with stewardess's.
From the Chinese Press today translated...11 Mar 2014 21:39
"Exclusive Report: Zhoupei Xia, Huang Cheng fast
(Kuantan, Kota Bharu on the 10th joint hearing) 4, who lives on the east coast of the public police claimed, had at the same time Malaysia Airlines MH370 aircraft lost contact, and witnessed the situation in the South China Sea low-flying aircraft complex explosion!
Sparks thought it was a meteor
Kuantan a construction worker and Kelantan Kuala Besar three fishermen claimed that on the 8th of this month at 1 pm, had seen there over the low-flying aircraft in the sea, and issued a similar spark an explosion sound, then disappear without a trace .
Kelantan where a fisherman also claimed that he witnessed the low-flying aircraft fuselage Malaysia Airlines logo.
Kuala Besar fishing 夫阿兹 Ibrahim (55 years old) said that 308 the same day at about 1:30, when he and his friends fishing together, find a plane flying in the clouds.
Towards the north at low altitude
He said he was at a distance of Kota Bharu Kuala Besar 8 nautical miles of the coast, saw an aircraft flying at low altitude.
"We find it strange, because the fear of low-flying aircraft will crash, but the aircraft continued flying at low altitude towards the north."
Aziz Ibrahim said, along with his fishing friends had a chance to share this with others, on the morning TV news broadcast, Alarmed Malaysia Airlines MH370 aircraft lost contact events.
"Saturday morning, the police come over to me taking statements, followed by police after 17:15 to Kota Bharu police report, provide more information."
Father of five children by Aztec Ibrahim Asked whether there saw smoke or fire when the plane, said the aircraft at the time did not see any abnormality.
Brazil to an eyewitness rich Alif (29 years old) claimed in the house witnessed a group of white, suspected low-flying aircraft.
On the other hand, living in Kuantan Teluk Cecil Road area of Lin Chinese man (37 years, building workers), this afternoon 3:30 to Kuantan police report, refers to himself at 1:00 on the 8th of this month at 15 am to 1:20 or so, when the home outside looking at the sky and saw a plane flying over the area at high altitude.
Sources said that the man appeared instantly saw the plane sparks flew early modern thought it was a meteor, after a few seconds, the object seemed heard an explosion, and soon disappeared after the front, when the aircraft has departed very far.
The man at 11:00 on Saturday morning, was informed that Malaysia Airlines passenger plane lost contact MH370 message today to the police.
The man this afternoon to accept the "China Daily" reporters asked that he was Kuantan who has seen the aircraft flying that day indeed, have learned that the aircraft lost contact, even the thought of the matter or lost contact with the aircraft concerned, we decided to report.
After the low-flying aircraft disappeared Residents: Impossible
Kuala Besar report alleged fisherman fishing at sea, the suspect saw a plane flying low in the sea and then disappeared from sight event, however, refer to local residents say it is impossible.
Local residents Monday told the "China Daily", according to residents over 10 years of fishing experience, only knew from Kuala Besar high altitude flight, all domestic flights, mainly in Asia flight machine as much.
Residents said that Malaysia flights machine routes are flown from Pengkalan Perregaux's 沙柏 altitude.
Because the police were pointing fishermen have been fishing, local residents are reluctant to report.
http://www.chinapress.com.my/ (http://www.chinapress.com.my/)
I'm curios as to why it took the Malaysian military three days to let the rest of the world know that the 34 search aircraft and 40 ships were covering the wrong 12,000 square mile area.
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/malaysian-military-now-reveals-it-tracked-mh370-to-malacca-straits (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/malaysian-military-now-reveals-it-tracked-mh370-to-malacca-straits)
I can't discern that at all.
Basically it says ... 4 fishermen saw the plane at low altitude and the insignia. It went north out of sight and they were shocked because normally planes are in the clouds over where they fish and a low flying aircraft would be feared as a crashing aircraft but it kept flying north out of sight low.
So it descended to the middle of the Strait then went North. Thats what I get.... so whats north... Puket?
Basically it says ... 4 fishermen saw the plane at low altitude and the insignia. It went north out of sight and they were shocked because normally planes are in the clouds over where they fish and a low flying aircraft would be feared as a crashing aircraft but it kept flying north out of sight low.
So it descended to the middle of the Strait then went North. Thats what I get.... so whats north... Puket?
something about a meteor?
This is starting to turn really weird.
Basically it says ... 4 fishermen saw the plane at low altitude and the insignia. It went north out of sight and they were shocked because normally planes are in the clouds over where they fish and a low flying aircraft would be feared as a crashing aircraft but it kept flying north out of sight low.
So it descended to the middle of the Strait then went North. Thats what I get.... so whats north... Puket?
Well North Korea is about 3800 miles away from where the plane disappeared...and Tehran is about 4500 miles away if it went back west and didn't travel into Indian airspace...if there were some sort of technology gurus on the flight both the Norks and Iranians would be suspect to me...and both countries are within the range of fuel the plane had...now another question is whether or not they could repaint the plane to look like a different airline company and fly it to a high value target full of explosives or possibly a dirty bomb or EMP...I just know that by now there would be something floating in the water if it had crashed and as always we will never get the truth from the MSM....if it was sunny and 80 degrees outside the MSM would tell you it was snowing out...there has never been an airliner just disintegrate without a trace...unless you want to talk about the 9/11 flight that crashed in PA. where even the engines disintegrated :rolleyes:
I'm not saying it's aliens but it's aliens.....
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f266/wiccamoon/UFO.gif) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/wiccamoon/media/UFO.gif.html)
These people fishing might have caught something.
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p47/KE4MIV/UFO.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/KE4MIV/media/UFO.jpg.html)
The plane wouldn't have had enough gas to get to North Korea or Iran
I'll find the article and post it but it said that the plane had 4000 miles worth of fuel plus and extra 2 hours worth...
hmmm, I thought it only had about 1,800 miles worth of fuel :headscratch:
Insert Quoteonly 1 satellite can see this??? and why isnt anyone going to see what this is that showing on satellite?? I find it very strange that they cant find a 777, as posted before with all the fisherman and rigs in the area :noid
CNN and Fox News is reporting that a Chinese satellite may have found broken up wreckage east of the search.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
small exposion severs communication, starts a major fire, causes explosion. :uhoh
It'll probably be found intact alongside 5 pristine TBM Avengers somewhere in the Sonoran Desert. :noid
(http://www.impdb.org/images/thumb/b/b4/Closeencounters6.jpg/500px-Closeencounters6.jpg)
if it burned up and exploded at 35,000 feet it might not be terrably noticeable.
Just going to throw this out there, why isn't anyone asking "where is the ACARS datalink data?"
So it descended to the middle of the Strait then went North. Thats what I get.... so whats north... puket?
No News type people in the know, took the investigators to offer the information from ACARS to the news:
Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. BA -0.99% 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program
No News type people in the know, took the investigators to offer the information from ACARS to the news:
Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. BA -0.99% 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program
Seems like the most-reliable information so far is that the plane was communicating to satellites for several hours after transponder went off line.
I hope that it turns out to be hijacking, as that gives some odds of survival for the passengers and crew.
There's also a report of an antenna mount corroding mid fuselage of 777 that can cause a mid-flight breakup if the hull is breached. There's going to be an FAA bulletin about it.
It's not clear what the indication was, but senior administration officials told ABC News the missing Malaysian flight continued to "ping" a satellite on an hourly basis after it lost contact with radar. The Boeing 777 jetliners are equipped with what is called the Airplane Health Management system in which they ping a satellite every hour. The number of pings would indicate how long the plane stayed aloft.Ok. But they're not going to tell us the number of pings. Why not?
The official initially said there were indications that the plane flew four or five hours after disappearing from radar and that they believe it went into the water. Officials later said the plane likely did not fly four or five hours, but did not specify how long it may have been airborne.What makes the "officials" say that?
White House spokesman Jay Carney said, It's my understanding that based on some new information that's not necessarily conclusive, but new information, an additional search area may be opened in the Indian Ocean, and we are consulting with international partners about the appropriate assets to deploy.Well that clears thing up! Thanks "officials" who prefer to remain anonymous while citing information of a nature that they won't specify.
Carney did not specify the nature of the new information.
Carney did not specify the nature of the new information.
He's turned that into a science.
For some reason I think it got shot down by a cruise missile and no one is claiming it.. I think the idea of hijacking is bland because the plane would have shown up somewhere. People would have contacted family, I think the message would have got out.
Only other thing is a technical malfunction and It crashed into see and sank rather quickly. I feel like the pilots could have radioed someone if that was the case..
The fact that it is missing, there were no phone calls, text, tweets, emails, from passengers about the plane going down, tells me that it could have been an instant fatal blow that crashed the plane at sea. Which leads me to believe that was a cruise missle.
The sat pings heading west and the phantom radar tracks are worrisome. I know every nerd with sat access is scanning the area but it's a real possibility this plane has landed and the passengers are hostages/human shields for some larger terrorist attack. The probability is low, but it can't be ruled out. :noid
If the plane managed to ditch in one piece and then sunk, it wouldn't leave a debris field.
If the plane managed to ditch in one piece and then sunk, it wouldn't leave a debris field.If it sank I think it would impload and then there's hundreds of orange floatation devices. And if it did ditch intact there would be passangers and life rafts.
If it sank I think it would impload and then there's hundreds of orange floatation devices. And if it did ditch intact there would be passangers and life rafts.
Perhaps the fuselage was only moderately ripped with big enough punctures to pretty much instantly fill the plane and sink with no chance of rescue. The plane wouldn't also implode if the hull was leaking like a siphon.If it was big enough to fill intstantly you'd still have flotsam like the hundreds of orange flotation devices.
If it was big enough to fill intstantly you'd still have flotsam like the hundreds of orange flotation devices.
I dont think a jetliner can sink without making a lot of flotsam period.
I dont think a jetliner can sink without making a lot of flotsam period.
when the russians shot down a airliner only a few small pieces were found. Id cards were about the only traceable objects.Korean Airlines 007.
Korean Airlines 007.
Could it have been Kim Jong Wrong-Un and a missile?
Although they did put a man on the sun (at night time of course)
I hope you know that the article was from a comedy site and a bunch of retarded journalists took it for real.
well at least at night the sun wouldnt be as bright and maybe not as hot :aok :rofl
Although they did put a man on the sun (at night time of course)
Kim Jong Wrong-Un totally personally beat the living shi-sh-kebap out of the aliens that hijacked the plane :old:
For anyone who is inclined to dismiss the notion that this plane could have been landed on a remote or primitive strip and be intact for later use.
I kindly direct your attention to the East German Airline Interflug circa October 1989 and an Ilyushin IL-62 called "Lady Agnes."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EP2fgosJ0A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EP2fgosJ0A)
If they could do it back then. I'm sure it can be done now.
When Skully put one down on the Potomac, she was intact. IF you could do that in the middle of the ocean.....................Dont remember much of the x-files but did the plane sink taking all passengers with it and producing no flotsam?
Been trying to figure the min distance for landing the plane I think a safe distance is about 3600 ft so maybe half that could be possible?Presuming they want to use the plane again...
http://atsl-g4-733.cee.vt.edu/courses/cee4674/cee4674_pub/cee4674_runway_2rev.pdf (http://atsl-g4-733.cee.vt.edu/courses/cee4674/cee4674_pub/cee4674_runway_2rev.pdf)
and might there be a air strip that it could land at ,,,so far a small strip 2000ft on Great Coco Island <North> and a 4400ft+ strip on Coco's Island <south> in the directions there are searching now.
But you are correct... just a well cleaned piece of land is all that is needed.
When Skully put one down on the Potomac, she was intact. IF you could do that in the middle of the ocean.....................
It was in the Hudson, and it proved that Airbus can build a good boat.why do assume when he wrote Skully in the potomac he meant Sully in the Hudson?
That incident inspired Airbus to develop a contingency design.....
(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/2317_1084439036573_171_n.jpg)
why do assume when he wrote Skully in the potomac he meant Sully in the Hudson?
why do assume when he wrote Skully in the potomac he meant Sully in the Hudson?
Have you ever heard of a "Skully" ditching in the Potomac? Why do you assume that I'm assuming? I suppose you're talking about a TV show, like that has any relevance to reality....
I think that this will turn out to be a similar event to that which killed golfer Paine Stewart.
Loss of cabin pressure, hypoxia and the crew and passengers are disabled. Aircraft flies until out of gas, or altitude. Stewart's Lear flew for over four hours.
In 2005, a Helios Airways Boeing 737-300 suffered a loss of cabin pressure and eventually crashed killing 121 passengers and crew...
I think that this will turn out to be a similar event to that which killed golfer Paine Stewart.Nope. We have deliberate disabling of transponders and datalinks plus an abrupt change in flightpath. That is not consistent with loss of cabin pressure. They are now saying it was "a deliberate act" but are stopping short of saying terrorism.
Loss of cabin pressure, hypoxia and the crew and passengers are disabled. Aircraft flies until out of gas, or altitude. Stewart's Lear flew for over four hours.
In 2005, a Helios Airways Boeing 737-300 suffered a loss of cabin pressure and eventually crashed killing 121 passengers and crew...
If that was the case then why not just fly back to the place, pick out the tallest building, and do a header into it?Dirty bomb? Chemical warfare? Multiple possibilities. I don't know.
And there are no remote landing strips that plane could have landed at. Its not a Cessna and you can bet every possible landing strip it could have used, within its fuel range, was checked by now.Are you sure? They didn't even admit it was heading west until today.
Nope the only things that could have happened is A, The plane was hijacked and the crew and passengers fought back. Eventually doing a Header into the ocean. B, The a member of the crew decided he'd had enough of life and wanted to leave it with a splash. Either way that plane is at the bottom of the ocean. I read an excerpt from a father who's only son was on that plane. The poor guy was devastated and really put a human face on all out theorizing.There is no good outcome of this flight. But, I don't think it's as simple as A or B. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.
I feel for the familys. :pray
Again one would think they only have a use as human shields if somebody knows you have them.Flying a laden airliner into a skyscraper seems excessive, no?
Hijacking an airplane to use as a dirty bomb or chem bomb seems excessive no?
It may have been hijacked with the intent of 911ing it and consequently shot down. Hence all the unclarifying information given to the press.If it was shot down we would know by now.
If it was shot down we would know by now.If it was shot down why would we ever know?
Just a thought, but out of all the passengers on this flight don't you think there was maybe a couple business men or women that had laptops reporting in to work, or family members that had there cell phones letting family no when they would be getting on the ground, I am sure there are so many other ways to find information about the passengers contacts or communications then any one is being told, you just do not lose a plane of this size and this many passengers with out a trace of some sort. Who are the passengers, their family and were did they work and for who did they work for. To much is being kept from public.I tend to have to agree with this statement, seems strange that the plane just fell off the face of the earth and the government over there is just now telling the public bits and pieces of the story. they know more than what they are saying
government over there is just now telling the public bits and pieces of the story. they know more than what they are saying
[/quote
Having worked around the world a lot, I've learned first-hand in reality things are not like in the movies. They probably just don't know yet but have some ideas. Grand conspiracies and machiavellian schemes are good for fiction but none have the competence of actually pulling something like this off. Hopefully we can find the wreckage soon and eventually the black box.
Because Zoney didn't say anything about Sully and the Hudson, he said Skully and Potomac.
Flying a laden airliner into a skyscraper seems excessive, no?
How could you possibly top that on the terrormeter?
Again to be clear... I hope I'm very, very wrong.
I don't think it's an act of terror. At least not by an organization. It's a single individual with intimate knowledge of the plane who is able to shut down several communication systems and pilot the aircraft for several hours. My guess is one of the flight crew; if that person incapacitated the rest of the flight crew or lured them out of the cockpit, the new hardened cockpit doors would make it almost impossible for the rest of the crew or passengers to gain access to the cockpit.
Even one of the flight crew can't switch off a transponder.
The transponders can be switched off with a flick of a switch. But modern planes like the 777 have two other systems as well: cockpit radios and a text-based system known as aircraft communications addressing and reporting system, or ACARS, which can be used to send messages or information about the plane... Turning off the radios and ACARS would be more difficult. NPR's Geoff Brumfiel spoke with commercial pilots, including two who have flown Boeing 777s similar to the jet that vanished with 239 people aboard. He says the pilots tell him that those systems are "pretty hard-wired into a modern aircraft
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/14/290255899/boeing-777-pilots-its-not-easy-to-disable-onboard-communications (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/14/290255899/boeing-777-pilots-its-not-easy-to-disable-onboard-communications)
I stand corrected. Never-the-less:
"The misnomer is if you turn off the transponder you turn off everything. That's not true. You still have a blip on the radar screen that comes from ground-based radar. You can never turn that off," Aimer said.
The jet would continue to show up on a radar screen if the aircraft were within range of a radar station, a distance that can extend several hundred miles, depending on the terrain and the plane's altitude, said Brent Spencer, air traffic control program director at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University's Prescott, Ariz., campus.
"It's possible to track an aircraft without a transponder with just raw radar, but it's much more difficult," Spencer said.
And if an airplane flew too low to be picked up by radar, controllers wouldn't have any information about the flight, Spencer added.
Aimer said modern airplanes like the 777 also have maintenance and engine monitoring systems that keep track of such things as engine temperature and can send messages back to the airline's base.
A U.S. official said Friday in Washington that investigators are examining the possibility of "human intervention" in the plane's disappearance. The official, who wasn't authorized to talk to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity, said the transponder stopped about a dozen minutes before the messaging system on the jet quit. Such a gap would be unlikely in the case of an in-flight catastrophe.
Malaysia Airlines didn't subscribe to that messaging service, but the plane still had the capability to connect with the satellite and was automatically sending signals, or pings, the official said.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/14/290255899/boeing-777-pilots-its-not-easy-to-disable-onboard-communications
After the communication devices are disabled how would a pilot be able to navigate the plane? I assume if the pilot understood how to avoid radar detection, he would need some precise navigation to make his destination undetected in the dark.Easy, he'd use the GPS and the Inertial Navigation System. GPS is a one-way satellite receiver and INS is self-contained and neither system transmits. It's interesting that the radar contact that the Malaysian military was following flew directly over two navigation fixes on its way up through the center of the Strait of Malacca which indicates the pilot knew exactly where he was and where he was going.
My bet, it's in the Gobi Desert under camouflage and we'll hear from the hijackers soon with ransom demands.
Something happened to one of its engines. An oil rig worker saw flames come out of one of the engines for 10-15 seconds. Do jet engines produce visible flames when they flame out? What would have caused this? Is it possible for the flight crew to destroy an engine or engines if they knew they were being hijacked?That was discredited. Read this:
It's been a week already. They're on the bottom of the sea...
Agreed. No one is going to keep & feed almost 300 hostages without immediately sending out a "Show me the money!"Sadly true. The question is where on the bottom?
My bet, it's in the Gobi Desert under camouflage and we'll hear from the hijackers soon with ransom demands.
This was my thought also except I dont think ransom is the motive or we would have heard something by now! I'm afraid they may have much more serious plans than ransom. All you need is some old medical equipment and to explode the A/C over your intended target area.
Then again we're looking for an excuse to get the industrial military oven up and cooking!
:salute
Has anyone considered the possibility that it is not the plane that is the focus of the hijacking. I understand that the passenger list is now being scrutinized for their potential value. I am wondering about the 20 employees of the semiconductor company. Seems to be a good way to get 20 people into a confined space and keep them captive until they can be herded off in a remote location and then detained indefinitely for their knowledge and expertise.
Perhaps the triple 7 is merely collateral damage and the plotters couldn't care less if they damage it upon landing just as long as it gets down with everyone alive and well.
I'm not saying I stand behind this theory. I'm asking the forum body if this is a possibility if not a probability.
Over the Indian Ocean?government officials on Christmas Islands are making a list and checking it twice.
Exactly how many cell towers do you imagine are located there?
Sorry, I don't think you would be able to fly into New York, London or Tokyo as a made up flight. You'd be intercepted and, if uncooperative with ATC instructions, shot down.
This was my thought also except I dont think ransom is the motive or we would have heard something by now! I'm afraid they may have much more serious plans than ransom. All you need is some old medical equipment and to explode the A/C over your intended target area.
Then again we're looking for an excuse to get the industrial military oven up and cooking!
:salute
My bet, it's in the Gobi Desert under camouflage and we'll hear from the hijackers soon with ransom demands.
Sorry, I don't think you would be able to fly into New York, London or Tokyo as a made up flight. You'd be intercepted and, if uncooperative with ATC instructions, shot down.
Mace2004, exactly who's airspace are you suggesting they penetrated undetected and unchallenged?That's a good question but it's easily answered because it's based a couple of assumptions. First, that all countries have radar coverage remotely similar to that in the US and Europe and second, that all countries worry about intrusion into their airspace (or would even notice if it happened and, if they noticed, be able to do anything about it.)
My bet is that they were going to crash it into a skyscraper and it was shot down and the official story will be that it crashed, maybe with some heroic passenger interference.
4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 every 108 minutes.
Does that mean we finally get to know what was really going on?You're .... lost .... aren't you? :D
:rolleyes:
Be real. If it is terrorism it is likely those responsible are/were Muslim it is also true that the vast majority of Muslims have never committed a terrorist act.
It is highly unlikely this was an intentional act by the crew. I am much more interested in the stolen passports and if there is a group with particular grievances with either Malaysia's government or China's government.
While other theories are still being examined, the U.S. official said key evidence suggesting human intervention is that contact with the Boeing 777′s transponder stopped about a dozen minutes before a messaging system on the jet quit. Such a gap would be unlikely in the case of an in-flight catastrophe.
The Malaysian official said only a skilled aviator could navigate the plane the way it was flown after its last confirmed location over the South China Sea. The official said it had been established with a more than 50 percent degree of certainty that military radar had picked up the missing plane after it dropped off civilian radar.
Why anyone would want to do this is unclear. Malaysian authorities have been urgently investigating the backgrounds of the two pilots and 10 crew members, as well the 227 passengers on board.
Some experts have said that pilot suicide may be the most likely explanation for the disappearance, as was suspected in a SilkAir crash during a flight from Singapore to Jakarta in 1997 and an EgyptAir flight in 1999.
India has complete radar coverage of their entire border, including their coastline. They have in fact multi-sensor coverage of most of it, not only radar.I'm sure they do have a capable system but it's not without its limits. The Xinhau news agency reported http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-03/16/c_126272172.htm (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-03/16/c_126272172.htm) the Indian response to the Malaysian PM's claim that the plane could be in Kyrgyzstan. The Indians described their system and how it couldn't have been penetrated without their knowledge but also admitted that "There are large areas in the Kolkata FIR, particularly over Bay of Bengal, that have no radar coverage at present. A radar has been installed in Andaman and Nicobar Islands but is yet to be commissioned." While the Indians would certainly want to thump their chests about coverage it doesn't look to be nearly as capable as they make it sound. Right up the Bay of Bengal is where the Malaysian flight would have flown if it made landfall over Bangladesh or Myanmar and I've seen no reports from either making similar claims about the "impenetrability" of their airspace.
A couple of questions to add to the Gobi desert area theory are "who" and "why?"
The leader of the Muslim Uighur ethnic group (who is hidden in Pakistan) claimed they have many more attacks planned against China in their goal to establish a new country called East Turkestan in that Gobi Desert/northwestern area of China. He's claimed an all out war and vowed revenge for the crackdown on his group by China.
However, their attacks have always been low-tech. I don't know if they have the smarts to put together a sophisticated plan to use the plane. They would more likely just want to kill hostages in some public way in their revenge.
But who flew the plane? Who on the plane had the heavy time to be able to land it somewhere off airport?
It could be a suicide by one of the flight crew. Why not just crash it? People get second thoughts. Some people don't want a crash from the cockpit view. Taking the plane to FL45 (as some reports have said) along with outflow valve manipulation would put them out very quickly. Not all suicidal people can take an action leading to being ripped to shreds in a crash. Going to sleep is painless.
Again, just speculation. This sure is bizarre. Who else on the plane had the ability to navigate between those waypoints?
Radar coverage of the area where flight MH370 went missing is patchy and often not even switched on, according to aviation experts. It has emerged today that civilian systems do not cover large swatches of the areas the plane could have gone, and that military systems are often left off to save money.
Air Vice Marshal Michael Harwood, a former RAF pilot, said: Too many movies and Predator [drone] feeds from Afghanistan have suckered people into thinking we know everything and see everything. You get what you pay for. And the world, by and large, does not pay.'
Air traffic control teams rely on transponders signals to track planes- but investigators believe that the device was intentionally switched off on the missing aircraft. Military systems, meanwhile, are often limited, switched off , or routinely ignore aircraft they do not think are suspicious. A Rear Admiral in the Indian armed forces, which are aiding search efforts over the Andaman Islands, said: It's possible that the military radars were switched off as we operate on an "as required" basis.
I'm sure they do have a capable system but it's not without its limits. The Xinhau news agency reported http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-03/16/c_126272172.htm (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-03/16/c_126272172.htm) the Indian response to the Malaysian PM's claim that the plane could be in Kyrgyzstan. The Indians described their system and how it couldn't have been penetrated without their knowledge but also admitted that "There are large areas in the Kolkata FIR, particularly over Bay of Bengal, that have no radar coverage at present. A radar has been installed in Andaman and Nicobar Islands but is yet to be commissioned." While the Indians would certainly want to thump their chests about coverage it doesn't look to be nearly as capable as they make it sound. Right up the Bay of Bengal is where the Malaysian flight would have flown if it made landfall over Bangladesh or Myanmar and I've seen no reports from either making similar claims about the "impenetrability" of their airspace.
Also, the report does describe what you could call a "multi-sensor" system: "According to the report, Kolkata airport has an Automatic Dependence Surveillance Radar and Controller-Pilot Datalink Communication that enables it to not only trail planes when it is in the radar zone of 60 nautical miles or nearly 120 km and beyond through very high frequency radio, but also through the data link when the plane goes out of voice communication range." Notice that these systems all rely on electronic emissions from the aircraft (ADSR, VHF radio and data link) which, of course, the airplane wasn't emitting (with the exception of the satellite "ping" which would not be detected by these systems.) That said, I have no idea what additional technology the Indian military might have in that area.
However, you assume the suspected hijackers knew exactly where to avoid detection. I'm sure it is possible, but I find it very unlikely.
The Indians have placed a network of sensor towers like this one...
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YlK7iH4oQZI/UuVxcZPhAMI/AAAAAAAAGbo/8E-xgW1OYw0/s1600/VEM+Technologies+Pvt+Ltd-built+optronic+Director-2.jpg)
All along their coastline...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--1oErBJT4vw/UulI8zuf1aI/AAAAAAAAGdc/6CaKFZ4bOUg/s1600/SaabTECH-integrated+CSS+network+for+India.jpg)
I'm guessing that they're building all these secondary optical sensor networks since stealth aircraft are about to become a lot more prolific with the F-35.
I'm surprised at the extent of their coastal radars but do you have a legend for that chart? The reason I ask is that our 48 had a range greater than 200NM while the chart seems to show coverage only out to about 50 or 60 miles (unless I'm reading it wrong). Given it's smaller size the Indian radar range would probably be commensurately smaller than the 48 but 50-60 miles seems a bit short. The range of electro-optical sensors would be much much shorter than the radar given that they're located at sea-level. Visible moisture and humidity has a very large affect on EO sensors so it's unlikely they can see much farther than 20-30 miles on a good day. We had an IR system on the F-14D which could see much further but only up at high altitude with low moisture.
(http://i.imgur.com/H7TdJxK.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/H7TdJxK.png)So where's the 777-200 that's missing? Fail.
So where's the 777-200 that's missing? Fail.
YES! Saved from Hell by technicality! HURRAH!
:D
(http://i.imgur.com/H7TdJxK.png)
I didn't make the image.No kidding. Otherwise I would have pointed out the error 2 days earlier when I saw it the first time. :cheers:
The simulator
The simulator
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1723168.1394940777!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/article-pilots16n-13-0315.jpg)
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1723168.1394940777!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/article-pilots16n-13-0315.jpg)
No TrackIR?
Yes. It looks a great deal like mine.
My wife and in-laws are wondering if I have terrorist connections.
No kidding. Otherwise I would have pointed out the error 2 days earlier when I saw it the first time. :cheers:Is this you?
What about here ...its not on Rip's list of 634 and its pretty much directly in the flight path NNW? China also runs a radar surveillance base from this Island.
Great Coco Island
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/5fef6c47-6e84-4f9f-9f67-363d7a058b6b_zps8d42c8ec.png)
What about here ...its not on Rip's list of 634 and its pretty much directly in the flight path NNW? China also runs a radar surveillance base from this Island.
Great Coco Island
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/5fef6c47-6e84-4f9f-9f67-363d7a058b6b_zps8d42c8ec.png)
634 runways (http://project.wnyc.org/runways/?utm_content=buffer54117&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) in range of MH370
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi3Al6-CIAAx_l_.png:large)
I don't know what the source of this info is.Do you even click link, Bro?
If it had landed there, I don't think China would be looking for 200 of its missing citizens.
So the Chinese did it?
I think they slammed it into a sheer mountain cliff in Remote-astan, leaving only a few pieces of burning wreckage falling down below. A couple mountain goats were the only witnesses. In 20 years some goat herder whose never heard of this will find a few chunks of rusty metal & never will know where it came from.
4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 every 108 minutes.
Do you even click link, Bro?Working off my iPad mini, it's not working for me
Looks like a Saitek PZ44 Pro flight system.
(http://www.saitek.com/uk/imgs/gallery/yokequad1.jpg)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26591056
This talk is about satellite data suggesting it went to antartica or Kazakhstan.
Also, reports of communication systems being lost before being off the east cost of malaysia. :noid ahhh 34% odds the crew was happily involved and 68% odds ALIENS
:noid
You are conditioned! :D :noid
Next on Doomsday Preppers...
A few things are strange.
If it was a hijacking for ransom, were they prepared to feed 300 people for up to a month?
Why the climb to 45,000 feet?
Did they intend to kill the passengers by lowering the cabin pressure and found people still stirring at 35k and decided they needed 45k to ensure all are dead?
My bet is that they cracked it up either trying to land it somewhere or caught the water trying to fly NOE.
Can they disable the automatic overhead oxygen system in flight? I know it doesn't last long, but if they depressurize the cabin it's going to deploy. Correct?Not likely, since it's an automatic safety system........and it will last long enough to make an emergency descent to a safe altitude. The overhead emergency oxygen probably lasts about 15 minutes. Not sure what the factual time is for the 777, but surely there's an expert in here that knows.
Can they disable the automatic overhead oxygen system in flight? I know it doesn't last long, but if they depressurize the cabin it's going to deploy. Correct?
Wrong! Now you're just making up crap when you don't know the facts.
I'm not sure is there an onboard oxygen making unit or are oxygen cylinders used? if they use oxygen cylinders they have on/off valves on them copilot could of closed them, masks would still deploy but no oxygen going to them... Its a sad event but also intriguing
I read it on the internets :rolleyes: so I dont know how they got the info or if it could even be done at nite......but out of all the crap I have read this one kind of makes sense if you want to hide a aircraft in flight.
http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68
Emergency water landing - 600 miles an hour.That's complete BS. Landing isn't done at 600 mph and no "pilot" who is attempting to do so would attempt it at that speed.
I read it on the internets :rolleyes: so I dont know how they got the info or if it could even be done at nite......but out of all the crap I have read this one kind of makes sense if you want to hide a aircraft in flight.
http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68
http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68
That's complete BS. Landing isn't done at 600 mph and no "pilot" who is attempting to do so would attempt it at that speed.Yes, the movie fight club is BS, good job.
I read it on the internets :rolleyes: so I dont know how they got the info or if it could even be done at nite......but out of all the crap I have read this one kind of makes sense if you want to hide a aircraft in flight.
http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68
That's complete BS. Landing isn't done at 600 mph and no "pilot" who is attempting to do so would attempt it at that speed.
I saw them talking about this on CNN last night..... Intresting theory.
NASA engineers must have been fools to use a 100% oxygen atmosphere in their Mercury and Gemini pods. All those astronauts being high and docile...
Why would anyone fly a 777 to Afghanistan or Turkmenistan just to end up with a grounded 777 with no fuel worth mentioning?
Interesting, but several things are unclear. Is he saying they specifically targeted SQ68? If so, it was mastery to find it.while a flight is scheduled to leave at a certain time it can be delayed by the traffic going in the same direction for up to 30mins. So they would have to wait and or plan to be in close proximity to that flight at those waypoints at that time. Let's say they planned and achieved this. How close do they fly to the other plane? The wake turbulence would be untenable if they got too close.From the article:
If they were waiting for just any plane they would be taking pot luck, a lot of planes go only as far as India, how to choose?
For info the Max altitude of a 777 is 43000' and only when extremely light. 45000 is impossible. Also westward flight is against the winds so the range would be much reduced, especially if they went as low as 29k.
I think that it's for a future terrorist attack.
This was thoroughly and elaborately planned, so it probably had enough fuel to make it to the intended landing spot, and then was taken somewhere else after a refueling.
What type of terrorist attack? Crashing it into something, of course, but perhaps loaded up as a dirty bomb first. A 777 can hold lots of chemicals or radioactive material. Iran, for example, has plenty of radioactive material thanks to no one stopping them from having it. The target could be Israel (easier to get to), the US (hard to get to, but perhaps not impossible), someplace in China (but probably only if it is loaded as a dirty bomb, otherwise, why fly it out of China first, but maybe the initial pilots were willing to hijack but not crash it), maybe Russia -- any place that is subject to Muslim attacks. My guess is highest probability is Israel or the US. The attempt doesn't have to happen any time soon. They could store the airliner out of the way for a while.
From the article:Interesting concept but, consider it was night time, whoever was flying the 777 was NOT proficient flying the aircraft in formation (let alone at night) not to mention joining up with another aircraft at high altitude.
In addition, the TCAS system onboard MH370 would have enabled the pilot(s) to easily locate and approach SIA68 over the Straits of Malacca as they appeared to have done. The system would have shown them the flights direction of travel and the altitude it was traveling which would have enabled them to perfectly time an intercept right behind the other Boeing 777. Here is a picture of a TCAS system onboard a 777.
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/a0dbf4fc78d41788b3d9c66867907df1/tumblr_inline_n2kahk8eJe1suyqf0.png)If they knew the approximate take off time of SIA68, synching up with them would be no problem at all. They could have checked that easily before takeoff. This is a very plausible theory.
Interesting concept but, consider it was night time, whoever was flying the 777 was NOT proficient flying the aircraft in formation (let alone at night) not to mention joining up with another aircraft at high altitude.So you didn't read any of the linked Keith Ledgerwood post that explains it?
Also, how would they identify the correct aircraft on the TCAS display?
I'd venture a functional nuke. That way when it gets shot down before landing it could still do something significant in the area. Not that a dirty bomb isn't significant. I've been thinking this for awhile but was loath to voice it.
So you didn't read any of the linked Keith Ledgerwood post that explains it?Yes, I did read the article by the self admitted "hobby pilot and aviation enthusiast". He's come up with a theory which is void of technical and hands on flying expertise. His article is entertaining and is plausible for a Hollywood movie. As a result, his theory is full of reality holes.
This is turning into a G.I. Joe plot...
Cobra did it. Only they would have the resources to pull this off. Stealing a jetliner with computer scientists on board and flying it to their secret dessert base where they will refuel it and equip it with a weapon of mass destruction to use against the Joes!
I bet the captain was Zartan...
This is turning into a G.I. Joe plot...
Cobra did it. Only they would have the resources to pull this off. Stealing a jetliner with computer scientists on board and flying it to their secret desert base where they will refuel it and equip it with a weapon of mass destruction to use against the Joes!
I bet the captain was Zartan...
(http://i.imgur.com/gxJglEE.png?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/EZGvpbc.png?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/qTkBmsV.png?1)
It will be highly ironic if she actually DID find it. And sad too...sad for the families, of course....and "sad" (in a different way) for the various national and military search teams trying to find the plane. :frown:
"A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet
A pilot with 20 years of experience provides the best explanation yet on what happened to flight MH370.
There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; its almost disturbing. I tend to look for a simpler explanation, and I find it with the 13,000-foot runway at Pulau Langkawi.
We know the story of MH370: A loaded Boeing 777 departs at midnight from Kuala Lampur, headed to Beijing. A hot night. A heavy aircraft. About an hour out, across the gulf toward Vietnam, the plane goes dark, meaning the transponder and secondary radar tracking go off. Two days later we hear reports that Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar, meaning the plane is tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca.
The left turn is the key here. Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. Theyre always in our head. Always. If something happens, you dont want to be thinking about what are you going to doyou already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and searched for airports in proximity to the track toward the southwest.
For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
There are two types of fires. An electrical fire might not be as fast and furious, and there may or may not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility, given the timeline, that there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires, it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes, this happens with underinflated tires. Remember: Heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long-run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)
What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that routelooking elsewhere is pointless."
More here: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/
Why wouldn't you use the autopilot to do that in-flight? Or do you mean the course change was programmed before the flight?
I would think it's normal to program alternate airports along the route in case of emergencies? I wonder who has analyzed the data and reached the conclusions; media, government officials or someone actually knowledgeable about these emergency procedures.
That's a little too vague to be "damning" don't you think? Programming course changes (to for example alternate airports) into the flight commputer, and executing course changes are a very different matter.
From the article:
In addition, the TCAS system onboard MH370 would have enabled the pilot(s) to easily locate and approach SIA68 over the Straits of Malacca as they appeared to have done. The system would have shown them the flights direction of travel and the altitude it was traveling which would have enabled them to perfectly time an intercept right behind the other Boeing 777. Here is a picture of a TCAS system onboard a 777.
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/a0dbf4fc78d41788b3d9c66867907df1/tumblr_inline_n2kahk8eJe1suyqf0.png)If they knew the approximate take off time of SIA68, synching up with them would be no problem at all. They could have checked that easily before takeoff. This is a very plausible theory.
"A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet
A pilot with 20 years of experience provides the best explanation yet on what happened to flight MH370.
There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; its almost disturbing. I tend to look for a simpler explanation, and I find it with the 13,000-foot runway at Pulau Langkawi.
We know the story of MH370: A loaded Boeing 777 departs at midnight from Kuala Lampur, headed to Beijing. A hot night. A heavy aircraft. About an hour out, across the gulf toward Vietnam, the plane goes dark, meaning the transponder and secondary radar tracking go off. Two days later we hear reports that Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar, meaning the plane is tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca.
The left turn is the key here. Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. Theyre always in our head. Always. If something happens, you dont want to be thinking about what are you going to doyou already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and searched for airports in proximity to the track toward the southwest.
For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
There are two types of fires. An electrical fire might not be as fast and furious, and there may or may not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility, given the timeline, that there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires, it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes, this happens with underinflated tires. Remember: Heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long-run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)
What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that routelooking elsewhere is pointless."
More here: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/
Why wouldn't you use the autopilot to do that in-flight? Or do you mean the course change was programmed before the flight?In an Emergency the first turn is manually. You reach up and turn the heading knob, to get you going in the right direction. You also need to change altitude (500' is enough) to avoid conflict with other planes. Then, if you time and not doing a checklist, you could think about programming the FMC to a destination.
Post 9/11, doesn't any of the flight attendants have access to a sat phone in case the cockpit is taken over?No
I would think it's normal to program alternate airports along the route in case of emergencies? I wonder who has analyzed the data and reached the conclusions; media, government officials or someone actually knowledgeable about these emergency procedures.You would be wrong. If there is an inflight emergency requiring a diversion, the pilots chose a suitable airport, coordinate it with company dispatch, and ATC. Then the FMS is programmed for the desired airport.
You would be wrong. If there is an inflight emergency requiring a diversion, the pilots chose a suitable airport, coordinate it with company dispatch, and ATC. Then the FMS is programmed for the desired airport.Agree
Id move that van too, that thing is smurfy
EDIT - LOL, smurfy :rolleyes:
And if they didn't have comms?OK, then, how many buses does the 777 have, which ones where affected by your theoretical fire, what is the bus tie configuration in the 777, which buses are the transponder and ACARS powered by and backed up by in a "non-normal" situation?
From that article:
"Fire in an aircraft demands one thing: Get the machine on the ground as soon as possible. There are two well-remembered experiences in my memory. The AirCanada DC9 which landed, I believe, in Columbus, Ohio in the 1980s. That pilot delayed descent and bypassed several airports. He didnt instinctively know the closest airports. He got it on the ground eventually, but lost 30-odd souls. The 1998 crash of Swissair DC-10 off Nova Scotia was another example of heroic pilots. They were 15 minutes out of Halifax but the fire overcame them and they had to ditch in the ocean. They simply ran out of time. That fire incidentally started when the aircraft was about an hour out of Kennedy. Guess what? The transponders and communications were shut off as they pulled the busses."
Dissin' my van :rofl
mary poppins is putting it about :old:
What does the lettering spell out on that van...... free candy?"see my puppies, come on inside"
So does anyone really have an idea where this plane is at?
Coogan
If this find pans out, then that strengthens the theory of Canadian commercial pilot Chris Goodfellow; the aircraft experienced an emergency that knocked out their comms. They diverted west towards an alternate airport, but they were overcome by the emergency, possibly a fire, and the aircraft continued west until it ran out of fuel southwest of India.
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73636000/gif/_73636672_malaysian_airliner_search_624map.gif)
...and this is south, not west of the last reported position.
Auto pressurisation failure :headscratch:Possibly, but there are warning systems and redundant backup modes. Therefore, it should not have been a debilitating event for the pilots.
Yes, for whatever reason, be it accidental or a willful act, the crew seem to have been incapacitated and the aircraft kept on flying on automation.How can YOU possibly know that?
Possibly, but there are warning systems and redundant backup modes. Therefore, it should not have been a debilitating event for the pilots.
How can YOU possibly know that?
I've never claimed to know "that". What's your problem?YOU made the statement. No problem here. The problem is on your end.
Yes, for whatever reason, be it accidental or a willful act, the crew seem to have been incapacitated and the aircraft kept on flying on automation.
seem
[seem] Show IPA
verb (used without object)
1.
to appear to be, feel, do, etc.: She seems better this morning.
2.
to appear to one's own senses, mind, observation, judgment, etc.: It seems to me that someone is calling.
3.
to appear to exist: There seems no need to go now.
4.
to appear to be true, probable, or evident: It seems likely to rain.
5.
to give the outward appearance of being or to pretend to be: He only seems friendly because he wants you to like him.
Synonyms
Seem, appear, look refer to an outward aspect that may or may not be contrary to reality. Seem is applied to something that has an aspect of truth and probability: It seems warmer today. Appear suggests the giving of an impression that may be superficial or illusory: The house appears to be deserted. Look more vividly suggests the use of the eye (literally or figuratively) or the aspect as perceived by the eye: She looked very much frightened.
know
Use Know in a sentence
know
1 [noh] Show IPA
verb (used with object), knew, known, know·ing.
1.
to perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty: I know the situation fully.
2.
to have established or fixed in the mind or memory: to know a poem by heart; Do you know the way to the park from here?
3.
to be cognizant or aware of: I know it.
4.
be acquainted with (a thing, place, person, etc.), as by sight, experience, or report: to know the mayor.
5.
to understand from experience or attainment (usually followed by how before an infinitive): to know how to make gingerbread.
Synonyms
Know, comprehend, understand imply being aware of meanings. To know is to be aware of something as a fact or truth: He knows the basic facts of the subject. I know that he agrees with me. To comprehend is to know something thoroughly and to perceive its relationships to certain other ideas, facts, etc. To understand is to be fully aware not only of the meaning of something but also of its implications: I could comprehend all he said, but did not understand that he was joking.
Yes I made this statement:
Now, for me English is a second language, but I think I understand the meaning of the word "seem". However just to be sure I looked it up:
It seems to me that the word "know" has a very different usage:
Like I said, English is a second language to me. What's your excuse?
English is a second language for most Americans as well. ;)
Most people I know, who learned English as a second language, use it more better than us native Americans do.
What?
Ain't not.
Ain't not.
are too
I've never claimed to know "that". What's your problem?He does seem to have his panties in his a twist for whatever reason. Hopefully they will find something out conclusive soon.
I am taking bets, 10 bitcoins per vote, correct answer gets the pot, in the case of mutiple winners pot will be split evenly.
1. __ Onboard Fire / Technical Problem - Plane Crashed in the sea.
2. __ Terrorist Act - Plane was Stolen.
3. __ Terroist Act - Plane was intentionally ditched.
4. _x_ Ancient Aliens - Plane was vaporized and passengers are being probed.
I am taking bets, 10 bitcoins per vote, correct answer gets the pot, in the case of mutiple winners pot will be split evenly.
1. __ Onboard Fire / Technical Problem - Plane Crashed in the sea.
2. __ Terrorist Act - Plane was Stolen.
3. __ Terroist Act - Plane was intentionally ditched.
4. _x_ Ancient Aliens - Plane was vaporized and passengers are being probed.
You forgot "eaten by a black hole."
I think your a bit out of line, we haven't seen ANY evidence that a black hole may have been involved.
Maybe it was a white hole. Since a white hole spews time, the plane may have hit a time pocket and was transported into a different time period
Most people I know, who learned English as a second language, use it more better than us native Americans do.
What?
I think your a bit out of line, we haven't seen ANY evidence that a black hole may have been involved.
Yes I made this statement:
Now, for me English is a second language, but I think I understand the meaning of the word "seem". However just to be sure I looked it up:
It seems to me that the word "know" has a very different usage:
Like I said, English is a second language to me. What's your excuse?
Just when you think that humans can't possibly get any stupider. <sigh> I'd like to have a chat with the editor of this butt wiping material and find out how he or she sleeps at night. Total dumb garbage and a waste of good trees.
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/971002_671820226216429_1596986851_n.jpg)
Not to mention the fact that their photoshopper can't even get the right make and model spliced into the picture. Maybe the staff is Malaysian and has ties to their investigators there.
Come on just admit it you bought the rag only for the higher right corner.
Come on just admit it you bought the rag only for the higher right corner.
AND JUST CAME in CNN there are no Oxygenmasks in 777 Flight Training Simulators!
They never Train puting Oxygen Masks on.
:huh
I didn't buy it. It was posted to Sierra Hotel Aeronautics on facebook. Just sharing the ignorance brother.
That is absolutely unequivocally complete and utter nonsense.
Not to mention not true, too.
Search in Flight Mechanik Forums the Aircraft had Antenna socket Problems
The most say:
1-The antenna socket gave away
2-The Cabin presure fall down
3-Pilots try to turn Back
4-Pilots falled asleep cause of no Oxygen
5-Passengers falled asleep after 12 minutes
6-Cabin crew with Oxygen Bottles falled 20 minutes after Cabin pressure Asleep
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWJzgljoJ7A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWJzgljoJ7A)
Search in Flight Mechanik Forums the Aircraft had Antenna socket Problems
The most say:
-The antenna socket gave away
-The Cabin presure fall down
-Pilots try to turn Back
-Pilots falled asleep cause of no Oxygen
-Passengers falled asleep after 12 minutes
-Cabin crew with Oxygen Bottles falled 20 minutes after Cabin pressure Asleep
-The plane travel till fuel out and fall down like a Stone.
AND JUST CAME in CNN there are no Oxygenmasks in 777 Flight Training Simulators!
They never Train puting Oxygen Masks on.
REMEMBER Flight Helios
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWJzgljoJ7A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWJzgljoJ7A)
Think Tassos was speaking to the FAA AD for the SAT COMM antenna mount on the crown of the fuselage, Some 777s have this mount in a particular location which is subject to the AD, the AD warns of cracking at the mount in the fuselage skin, possibly causing decompression and all that follows, although it was established that this particular 777 was not subject to that AD, it was a good theory up to that point. Antenna options come in many forms for the aircraft when you buy it, there are many configurations to antenna and layout.
I dont disagree, but would it lead to an explosive decompression? Thats my point, if it did in the worst possible scenario, they'd have 30seconds to put their masks on, which is enough.
The FAA bulletin actually mentions that the hull breach can lead even to mid-air breakup of the entire plane.
I .... believe you. I also somewhat believe you've never shopped in an American grocery store.
Someone dropped the ball and heads should roll!
Way too early to point fingers (or executioner's axe). We may never learn what happened.
Forgive me if I await someone 'IN' the field....someone with more direct knowledge.Hey JG! Hard to say what happened since the only two that know the facts are unavailable. There are so many variables that could have played out. One thing that is fairly evident is the apparent intentional transponder disabling. This seems to suggest someone in the cockpit, one or both pilots or a external party, shut the transponder off via the switch or a circuit breaker. In the "normal" world of aviation ops, the transponder is a pilot's best friend. If a chaotic event occurs, selecting the emergency code gets ATC's immediate attention and all kinds of assistance. In this instance, it appears that someone in the cockpit wanted to be as invisible as possible. Just some thoughts for consideration.
JGroth
Puma! I really was Po'd my puter wasn't up to the wingman stuff you tried to teach us! I've backed off abit on flying as 'spring' is busy time.
Bless you and yours, buddy, blue skies!
JGroth
:salute Sir...even more off topic..Phantom sexiest jet, ever!Ditto! Back in! :aok
Now..back to topic at hand!
JGroth
For my money, more interesting than the Amelia Earhart story.
Just read a new update/review of some of the past/present theories.
MH370: five years of theories about one of aviation's greatest mysteries
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/07/mh370-five-years-of-theories-about-one-of-aviations-greatest-mysteries
Didn't click that article, but I have read a lot about MH370.
No mystery at all for me. The evidence is overwhelming that it the aircraft was deliberately flown to and ditched in the southern Indian ocean.
-Turning off transponder, and deviating from planned course in between controller hand-offs.
-Hugging the Maylasia/Thailand border, in a commercial radar deadzone.
-Inmarsat ACARS pings tracing a route to the most remote place on earth.
-The lack of a large floating debris field, and the erosion to the recovered flaperon both suggest a controlled ditching.
There is also pretty strong circumstantial evidence that points to the captain as the culprit.
-The same route MH370 took saved on his home simulator.
-MH370 made a detour/turn to fly over the Captains hometown.
It's no mystery to me what happened; Captain waits till controller hand-off so he has some time before anyone notices the situation, somehow locks out or incapacitates F.O.(could have happened before hand-off) Turns off the transponder, goes NORDO, flies past his hometown for one last look. Then cruises out to the middle of nowhere for 7 hours till fuel runs out and ditches in the ocean. Whether he depressurized the cabin to kill all the passengers before ditching or not... who knows, but probably.
MH370 is sitting on the bottom of the Indian Ocean somewhere mostly intact.