Someone asked me to teach them how so I figured I might as well post it here too :)
You want to be going straight up and anywhere from 50-150 IAS, then apply full right rudder, left aileron and elevator.
The result in most low torque planes is a fast transition from nose up to nose down, and can be helpful in different circumstances. High torque planes like the K4, La7 etc are a little harder to do it in, but in those planes you can use the torque to turn around anyways. The only plane set I haven't been able to recreate this in is the 190s (with the exception of 152, which is one of the best at it because of its low torque). I am not responsible for any damage to your plane you may acquire!!
A video on some of the common planes doing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3n12dxz2zY
(dang it wrong section :bolt:)
Tell me, what is a stall? Also, what is cross controled? I'm an FAA flight instructor and your explanation is off base.Tell me, do I care what you think of my naming?
Tell me, do I care what you think of my naming?Has nothing to to do with what I thing, has more to do with passing on correct information. Which I can see you care nothing about.
Merry Christmas :)
Tell me, what is a stall? Also, what is cross controled? I'm an FAA flight instructor and your explanation is off base.
Tell me, what is a stall? Also, what is cross controled? I'm an FAA flight instructor and your explanation is off base.
Has nothing to to do with what I thing, has more to do with passing on correct information. Which I can see you care nothing about.
Did someone get coal in their stocking this year? Sheesh...
Did someone get coal in their stocking this year? Sheesh...
... In the game, the high torque planes actually do it well, just not on the same angle of attack that he described...
Traveler is correct that some of Poison's explanations are wrong. For example how could a TA 152 have less torque than other FW 190's?
The big difference seems to be the wing not any aspect of torque.
Changeup it sounds like you think going straight up describes an angle of attack. Angle of attack is not flight path or attitude. It's simply the angle the airflow meets the wing.
Tell me, what is a stall? Also, what is cross controled? I'm an FAA flight instructor and your explanation is off base.It was perfectly clear to me.
It was perfectly clear to me.
Tell me, what is a stall? I'm an FAA flight instructor.....
A stall is when a wing or portion of a wing no longer produces lift due to insufficient airflow.Wrong and wrong. Suggest you read a little. Read about angle of attack and slip and skid, also a seperate subject a cross controled.
Cross control is the use of opposite rudder and aileron to cause the plane to "skid" partially sideways through the air producing a braking effect due to the length of the fuselage "catching" the air.
Glad to be of service to the FAA but they really 'ought to teach you guys this stuff.
Wrong and wrong. Suggest you read a little. Read about angle of attack and slip and skid, also a seperate subject a cross controled.
Wrong and wrong.
Wrong and wrong. Suggest you read a little. Read about angle of attack and slip and skid, also a seperate subject a cross controled.
Someone asked me to teach them how so I figured I might as well post it here too :)Nice video! I love to see an opponent do this. They completely deplete their energy management/control and pretty much stop any forward movement while they flop around in a relatively small piece of airspace, making themselves a fairly stable target to shoot at. This move, although relatively well controlled in the video, only serves to unnecessarily bleed off energy, which is a bad move in an air combat environment.
You want to be going straight up and anywhere from 50-150 IAS, then apply full right rudder, left aileron and elevator.
The result in most low torque planes is a fast transition from nose up to nose down, and can be helpful in different circumstances. High torque planes like the K4, La7 etc are a little harder to do it in, but in those planes you can use the torque to turn around anyways. The only plane set I haven't been able to recreate this in is the 190s (with the exception of 152, which is one of the best at it because of its low torque). I am not responsible for any damage to your plane you may acquire!!
A video on some of the common planes doing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3n12dxz2zY
(dang it wrong section :bolt:)
Nice video! I love to see an opponent do this. They completely deplete their energy management/control and pretty much stop any forward movement while they flop around in a relatively small piece of airspace, making themselves a fairly stable target to shoot at. This move, although relatively well controlled in the video, only serves to unnecessarily bleed off energy, which is a bad move in an air combat environment.
As I said in the OP, helpful under certain circumstances. This assumes you know when to use it, aka not when someone has enough energy to get up to you. If done right it can be more effective to bleed the rest of your next to none speed to kill someone who is just stalling out, because if you keep going up or try to loop over they will have enough time to dive away.
:salute
On stalls, BaldEagl is mostly correct.
An aerodynamic stall is the point at which the lift produced by the wing is less than the load it is trying to carry. This is the weight of the aircraft in level flight, but can be greater than the weight due to a high G turn (an accelerated stall.)
Most common stalls are when airspeed declines and the angle of attack (AoA) is increased to maintain level flight. There is a point at which the airflow over the top of the wing begins to transition from laminar to turbulent. As this point moves forward on the wing due to the increased AoA, the surface area that produces lift decreases. When the lift is less than the weight of the aircraft, it is in an aerodynamic stall.
BaldEagl’s description of cross controls is spot on. It is rudder input in one direction, and aileron in the opposite direction. It is most commonly used to keep the nose aligned with the runway during crosswind takeoffs and landings. It can also be used to increase drag.
Traveller, the vast majority of folks in this game have no real life flying experience. Lower your expectations and enjoy the game. Emphasis on GAME.
If you have "next to none" speed you're likely doing a stall turn. With a higher entry speed some aircraft come around faster and some won't rotate at all.So, what exactly is a "stall turn"? It's a term bantered around the forum frequently but, seldom defined.
Thanks for posting, I'm sure it will be helpful. :aok
First, when someone posts a Tutorial video or document on a subject that leads the reader to assume, rightfully so, that the poster or OP is knowledgeable on the subject and the material being posted or discussed is correct.
The reason to use precise and accurate terms when presenting a technical subject is to remove the possibility of error and incorrect assumptions on the part of the reader/student.
Hi-tech Creations spends thousands of man hours developing and fine tuning a very sophisticated and accurate flight model, one that I personally think is as well done as the phase III and phase IV aircraft simulators I used in my airline and military flight training days. To refer to any part of the Hi-tech flight model using improper terms is disrespectful and insulting to the creators of this game.
To those who got upset about my reference to this OP tutorial being wrong, and offering their long winded explanation about wing stall, you had me until you used the words AirSpeed or speed. Sorry you are just wrong, it’s angle of attack and it’s only angle of attack that causes an airplane wing to stall.
My belief that the OP’s video shows aircraft going vertical and performing an “incipient spin recovery” which changes direction of the aircraft from nose up to nose down.
Here are some very quick video’s to help everyone sort things out, enjoy:
Accelerated Stalls in the Vertical
http://youtu.be/0SKh8pTdx0I
Stalls from Skidding and Slipping Turns
http://youtu.be/zfwLglHEYvQ
Incipient, Upright, and Inverted Spins
http://youtu.be/JDEwUlA9WvY
So, what exactly is a "stall turn"? It's a term bantered around the forum frequently but, seldom defined.
A stall turn is a vertical climb with a 180 reversal as you run out of airspeed.
A hammerhead turn is a stall turn with defined limits for aerobatic competition.
I think you are confusing this game with real life.
It's HiTech Creations, Not Hi-Tech Creations.
Just though you should know.
Coogan
The game is based on real life physics.
This is a good one: http://youtu.be/Tcp15VsIdUQ
Traveler plis leave the thread there was no need to ever say what you did in the first place.
I think you are taking something out of context, but what profession upsets you, My time with Eastern Airlines, or my time spent training Military flight crews , or that I’m still an active General Aviation Flight Instructor, perhaps it was my Aviation consulting company that I spent 30 years building in a viable business and sold it so I could retire and care for my terminally wife. Which one?
Based on. No where near an exact representation of them. Using rules that apply to the real world like they are the exact same here is not valid. Yes they can be helpful, but should not be used for basis of an argument.
However, I could still care less what you think and kindly ask you to stop posting about what you think is right. If you want to help people, make your own tutorial.
Traveler,
You have won this one but not any friends. Once you bring in real life, yeah, Poison is, and probably never will be able to compete with you in that arena. Mayhap you are not being fair. In this cartoon arena, you just pooped on his pixel manhood while he was giving away one of the hairy arsed secrets so many lust after.
If you haven't noticed, he doesn't give a ratz hairy part about your real world experience as a real pilot because how can he compete at that level. You win there like killing a gnat with a nuke. What matters is his perception that he is superior at manipulating a kiddy game against other kiddys and you are one the of the old ferts he can make cry in some manner.
You are going to have to live with that. He is not going to change or admit to your gnat nuking superiority as long as the arena is this kiddy game.
My posts were not intended to make friends but rather to correct miss-information.
Clearly it wasn't about making friends. So why didn't you correct the misinformation rather than post a snotty reply?Spelling, I guess I’m like Hi-Tech in that regard.
You'd think a guy supposedly as smart as you would know how to spell.
First, when someone posts a Tutorial video or document on a subject that leads the reader to assume, rightfully so, that the poster or OP is knowledgeable on the subject and the material being posted or discussed is correct.
The reason to use precise and accurate terms when presenting a technical subject is to remove the possibility of error and incorrect assumptions on the part of the reader/student.
Hi-tech Creations spends thousands of man hours developing and fine tuning a very sophisticated and accurate flight model, one that I personally think is as well done as the phase III and phase IV aircraft simulators I used in my airline and military flight training days. To refer to any part of the Hi-tech flight model using improper terms is disrespectful and insulting to the creators of this game.
To those who got upset about my reference to this OP tutorial being wrong, and offering their long winded explanation about wing stall, you had me until you used the words AirSpeed or speed. Sorry you are just wrong, it’s angle of attack and it’s only angle of attack that causes an airplane wing to stall.
My belief that the OP’s video shows aircraft going vertical and performing an “incipient spin recovery” which changes direction of the aircraft from nose up to nose down.
Here are some very quick video’s to help everyone sort things out, enjoy:
Accelerated Stalls in the Vertical
http://youtu.be/0SKh8pTdx0I
Stalls from Skidding and Slipping Turns
http://youtu.be/zfwLglHEYvQ
Incipient, Upright, and Inverted Spins
http://youtu.be/JDEwUlA9WvY
Oh wow. I didn't know bad angle of attack is the only thing that can make a wing stall. This means I can fly level at 2 mph! I'm going to try that the next time I get to fly a real plane!
Oh wow. I didn't know bad angle of attack is the only thing that can make a wing stall. This means I can fly level at 2 mph! I'm going to try that the next time I get to fly a real plane!
I'd like to see you beat me once in this game traveler, then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about :)
I'd like to see you beat me once in this game traveler, then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about :)
Tell you what. I'll start at 1k you start at 10.
teach me what the correct terminology is for what we are doing while flying
I'd like to see you beat me once in this game traveler, then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about :)
Tell you what. I'll start at 1k you start at 10.
Great, just great, that will help me a lot. You beating him in game surely will teach me what the correct terminology is for what we are doing while flying, so your point is just awesome, and typical. I for one would like to know the correct terminology and have it used when describing maneuvers. This thread, well it ain't doing that. With all the chest thumping as per usual crap, I have no idea what the correct terminology is. Great job gents.
Great, just great, that will help me a lot. You beating him in game surely will teach me what the correct terminology is for what we are doing while flying, so your point is just awesome, and typical. I for one would like to know the correct terminology and have it used when describing maneuvers. This thread, well it ain't doing that. With all the chest thumping as per usual crap, I have no idea what the correct terminology is. Great job gents.
Why aren't we calling the maneuvers in game by the correct name that is used in the real world. Is there any reasons they should be called anything different?
I'm on with my squad every Saturday night, we fly as Knights, come fly with us or against us, come shoot me down. what's your ingame name, I'm Traveler. we fly starting at 7 EST . We always fly heavy into a target an try to dog fight our way out. We have a blast. I get shoot down a lot, I stink so killing me doesn't take much. But come out and enjoy the night. Check out our Wiki page.
You missed the point... (And the sarcasm) :devil
This thread is about an in game maneuver.
His response is about a name of a real life maneuver.
My response is about in game flying.
Which is more related?
My previous post was meant to relate to the "off-topicness" of yours but hey there's no point in arguing with a bunch of rocket scientists (even if the game is not about rockets :devil)
You can call it what you wish :salute
I'd like to see you beat me once in this game traveler, then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about :)I was responding to this, which was very off topic I agree, but it was your post, not mine.
Tell you what. I'll start at 1k you start at 10.
A stall turn is a vertical climb with a 180 reversal as you run out of airspeed.
That sounds more like a Chandelle or an Immelmann, depending on what is meant by vertical. A properly performed Chandelle doesn't include a stall, nor does an Immelmann. That still leaves the question of why is the word "stall" is included in the description. :salute
A stall turn is a vertical climb with a 180 reversal as you run out of airspeed.
A hammerhead turn is a stall turn with defined limits for aerobatic competition.
Lift is AOA and speed.
That sounds like a Chandelle or perhaps an Immelmann, depending the definition of vertical. Performed properly, neither includes a stall. So, the question remains as to why the word "stall" is included. Also, where did the term "stall turn" originate? As one of Traveler's posted YouTube videos demonstrates, a series of events, turn-stall-spin has ruined the day of many a pilot in the traffic pattern. It's certainly not a maneuver a well trained, competent pilot would depend on in air combat. :salute
That was my point. There is a minimum speed for a givin plane where you can't mauntain level flight, and then there is the accelerated stall. The difference is, in an accelerated stall one wing is making more lift than the other causing the plan to "snap-roll". Below minimum speed, you just fall like a rock.
Lift requires speed, without lift you stall. Without speed there is no such thing as AoA.
So tell me, why does speed have nothing to do with it?
You know what a Chandelle is, you know what an Immelmann is, and so you know neither of them have anything to do with what you quoted.You are correct. I know what they are. The provided explanation of a stall turn sounds somewhat similar to the two maneuvers, depending on the definition. So, the question still remains. What exactly is a stall turn?
No no no, the accelerated stall demonstrates that airspeed has nothing to do with a stall. AOA , read about relative wind, Cord Line. Look at the videos that I've posted.
You are correct. I know what they are. The provided explanation of a stall turn sounds somewhat similar to the two maneuvers, depending on the definition. So, the question still remains. What exactly is a stall turn?
What specific part of my post are you disagreeing with?Depending on if he describes a climbing turn versus a pure vertical pitch up, it could be either a chandelle or an Immelmann. There is still no stall involved.
I am not personally familiar with the term, but it should be as FLS said. A verticals climb until you run out of speed and fall. As long as you have a forward center of gravity, the nose with fall first, turning you around. If your CoG is aft, it's usually suicide.
That is, unless FLS meant there should be some control input before you lose control authority.
Ok then, what is it called when you don't have enough speed to fly?
Ok then, what is it called when you don't have enough speed to fly?
Depending on if he describes a climbing turn versus a pure vertical pitch up, it could be either a chandelle or an Immelmann. There is still no stall involved.
That was my point. There is a minimum speed for a givin plane where you can't mauntain level flight, and then there is the accelerated stall. The difference is, in an accelerated stall one wing is making more lift than the other causing the plan to "snap-roll". Below minimum speed, you just fall like a rock.
Lift requires speed, without lift you stall. Without speed there is no such thing as AoA.
So tell me, why does speed have nothing to do with it?
...One wing dropping before the other has nothing to do with whether or not the stall is accelerated.
in an accelerated stall one wing is making more lift than the other causing the plan to "snap-roll".
...
Because you assume a 1g load condition. At a 0g load factor you won't stall at 2 MPH. You can stall at any speed but you can only stall at the critical AOA.Good explanation.
I have never heard the term, "stall turn."
Basically, a stall turn is a turn without continuous lift from the wings.
What specific part of my post are you disagreeing with?
I am not personally familiar with the term, but it should be as FLS said. A verticals climb until you run out of speed and fall. As long as you have a forward center of gravity, the nose with fall first, turning you around. If your CoG is aft, it's usually suicide.
That is, unless FLS meant there should be some control input before you lose control authority.
Only if the rudder is till effective, the rudder is the first and last control surface to have a positive effect on the airframe, depending on airflow past the rudder, there maybe some effect, there maybe none.
I was taught that stall plus yaw resulted in a spin. I guess rudder is still affective in a stall condition. So, one could direct the nose with the rudder, but it would be on the edge of entering a spin.
For a hammerhead you go straight up, rotate, go straight down.
An Immelman is a half loop flown with continuous lift.
A chandelle is a climbing turn with continuous lift.
A wingover occurs if you yaw too soon in a stall turn.
A tailslide occurs if you yaw too late in a stall turn.
Basically, a stall turn is a turn without continuous lift from the wings.
What's the source of your "stall turn" terminology?
Thanks. So, what you're talking about is actually an aerobatic maneuver typically flown in competition and/or airshows?
For a hammerhead you go straight up, rotate, go straight down.
An Immelman is a half loop flown with continuous lift.
A chandelle is a climbing turn with continuous lift.
A wingover occurs if you yaw too soon in a stall turn.
A tailslide occurs if you yaw too late in a stall turn.
Basically, a stall turn is a turn without continuous lift from the wings.
Aerobatic maneuvers flown in airshows comprise the basic maneuvers of ACM.Which ones?
Which ones?
I'd like to see you beat me once in this game traveler, then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about :)
Tell you what. I'll start at 1k you start at 10.
I'm on with my squad every Saturday night, we fly as Knights, come fly with us or against us, come shoot me down. what's your ingame name, I'm Traveler. we fly starting at 7 EST . We always fly heavy into a target an try to dog fight our way out. We have a blast. I get shoot down a lot, I stink so killing me doesn't take much. But come out and enjoy the night. Check out our Wiki page.Looked for you all night , You were as I thought a no show. Just another knew nothing loud mouth, I was on Saturday night as usual flying with my squad, what's your ingame name loud mouth, my name is Traveler. Thought you wanted to beat me in this game? I guess your all talk.
Looked for you all night , You were as I thought a no show. Just another knew nothing loud mouth, I was on Saturday night as usual flying with my squad, what's your ingame name loud mouth, my name is Traveler. Thought you wanted to beat me in this game? I guess your all talk.It was not a serious challenge as I already know the would be outcome (your death), and if you can't figure out my name then facepalm. I was on for a few hours although I only flew a handful of sorties.. Most of which lasted over an hour each :)
I always thought it's a good practice to keep the Help & Training forum clear from personal battles and mudslinging.
I propose that both Traveler and Poison duel 1v1 and then post the films in the Training forum. What say you people?
a Light saber fight would be cooler.
No force powers though that would make it lame.
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/3babdd9e8f67e83219b0f00125917b5b_zps6107e756.jpg) (http://s906.photobucket.com/user/puma44/media/3babdd9e8f67e83219b0f00125917b5b_zps6107e756.jpg.html)
I propose that both Traveler and Poison duel 1v1 and then post the films in the Training forum. What say you people?
The most basic aerobatic maneuvers are the aileron roll and loop. That gives us various basic fighter maneuvers. The Immelman, split S, rolling scissors, flat scissors, wing-over, barrel roll attack and barrel roll defense, are a few examples.
The hammerhead or stall turn was first used in air combat in WW1. Aircraft with rotary engines used gyroscopic precession to help turn within a small radius.
I'd like to see you beat me once in this game traveler, then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about :)
Tell you what. I'll start at 1k you start at 10.
I'm on with my squad every Saturday night, we fly as Knights, come fly with us or against us, come shoot me down. what's your ingame name, I'm Traveler. we fly starting at 7 EST . We always fly heavy into a target an try to dog fight our way out. We have a blast. I get shoot down a lot, I stink so killing me doesn't take much. But come out and enjoy the night. Check out our Wiki page.
Looked for you all night , You were as I thought a no show. Just another knew nothing loud mouth, I was on Saturday night as usual flying with my squad, what's your ingame name loud mouth, my name is Traveler. Thought you wanted to beat me in this game? I guess your all talk.
It was not a serious challenge as I already know the would be outcome (your death), and if you can't figure out my name then facepalm. I was on for a few hours although I only flew a handful of sorties.. Most of which lasted over an hour each :)
How are flat and rolling scissors (flown against an opponent in air combat) applicable in an airshow environment?
How are flat and rolling scissors (flown against an opponent in air combat) applicable in an airshow environment?
Those are the ACM applications of the simple roll and loop seen in airshows.
Looked serious to me, so what’s your ingame name, because from where I sit it’s got to be something like “Babyboy” or “Mama’s boy” or Big Wussy.
Tell me, what is a stall? Also, what is cross controled? I'm an FAA flight instructor and your explanation is off base.
Nice video :aok, but I don't think you've named it correctly due to my reckoning. :old:
Puma's point is that you actually can't, you literally can't, perform ACM without an opponent. The actual military definition of ACM, summarized, is the dynamic application of BFM against an opponent. Therefore, you cannot actually perform ACM without a dogfighting opponent.
Airshow maneuvers, at most, are BFM, unless you have two planes in a mock dogfight.
I'll let Puma tell me his point. I think it has more to do with stall maneuvers not being recommended for dogfighting but like you I can only guess.
Curiously the Navy and Air Force, both military, define ACM differently.
In any case I never stated that you can perform solo ACM. You apparently made that up so you could say it's wrong.
No, but you did state that you can perform a rolling scissors (among other maneuvers) as a basic maneuver. You can't, as a rolling scissors requires another aircraft by definition of the maneuver. There was no agenda, just trying to point out the discrepancy.
I did not say that. Again you misrepresent my statements.
I said a rolling scissors was composed of rolls and loops.
With all due respect, having fought both you and Poison, a fight between the two of you wouldn't be anything close to even. You might want to be a bit more respectful to Poison before your posts backfire severely.I never claimed to be good, in fact I suck at it. But he brought it up, not me,, but I'm always willing to fight anyone in the MA on any saturday night, even a know nothing like him.
-=S=-
Now just go. Wtg on turning a tutorial thread into a chest-beating, troll GD thread.
Because its not a tutorial thread when the OP is totally off base and presenting bad information as a subject expert.
...
Because its not a tutorial thread when the OP is totally off base and presenting bad information as a subject expert.
I said a rolling scissors was composed of rolls and loops.
It was posted to showcase the maneuver not the name.What maneuver do you think it showcases?
Not so. There are no loops involved in a rolling scissors. However, the basis of a rolling scissors is a series of roll reversal maneuvers.
Your diagram looks like a flat scissors.
Your diagram looks like a flat scissors. In any case the rolling scissors is a series of barrel rolls and a barrel roll is an aileron roll and loop flown at the same time. Hence the rolling scissors uses loops.
A loop is a complete 360 degree turn in the vertical. The diagram is of a vertical rolling scissors. When it's not vertical, it's a flat or horizontal rolling scissors. Below is a diagram of a flat scissors:
By your definition there's no loop in a split S. Now we can argue if you're half right or half wrong. ;)
What maneuver do you think it showcases?
It's not my definition. It's what exists as the real definition of the maneuver. It's not about me being right or wrong. A loop and a split S are two different maneuvers by definition.
Now you're talking about the definition of the Loop as a maneuver rather than loop being descriptive of a vertical turn.Neither do I. But, when you describe a scissors as having a loop as part of it, you are going to confuse someone new to the game and BFM/ACM by using inaccurate description.
My interest is the flying. I don't care to argue the semantics.
Neither do I. But, when you describe a scissors as having a loop as part of it, you are going to confuse someone new to the game and BFM/ACM by using inaccurate description.
You tell me
Didn't you come here to tell us all in the first place?
Zeno's has posted a basic aerobatic training film showing the maneuver, ribbon diagram, and control positions.
http://youtu.be/4ciHwwRCeBw
If we could delete pages 4-9...that'd be great. :bolt:
If you did that, Mar wouldn't get the answer to his question.Mar's question was in no way related to my original post, which you managed to derail to the point of people fighting over a definition.
Mar's question was in no way related to my original post, which you managed to derail to the point of people fighting over a definition.
Mar's question was in no way related to my original post, which you managed to derail to the point of people fighting over a definition.
There's no such thing as "not having enough speed to fly." You either have enough lift or you don't. Lift may ultimately come from airspeed, but airspeed alone does not determine whether you fly or not.
The way I see it, this post contradicts itself. Am I wrong?
.
What determines a stall is the loading of the wing vs the lift produced by it.
Incorrect. A stall is exceeding the critical angle of attack. Load factor has no effect on when the wing stalls….the wing stalls at X angle of attack period.
No, I did get the answer. I just stepped out of the discussion for a while so I could look at it from the outside.
The problem was that since my youth I learned that "stall" meant losing control authority, usually due to falling below flying speed. I don't know if it was changed since then, or if everyone else was just using it wrong. Bottom line is as you said, according to the FAA the term stall doesn't have anything to do with airspeed.
But I have one more bone to pick.
The way I see it, this post contradicts itself. Am I wrong?
could we talk about how the air france jet ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 )stalled out of the sky when the speed meter froze, or maybe speculate how the air asia flight might have stalled out of the sky?Asia, flight into a super cell. 447, would have to reread the transcripts.
it seems our "safe" jetliners walk a fine line at 33,000 ft.
Traveler,
You have won this one but not any friends. Once you bring in real life, yeah, Poison is, and probably never will be able to compete with you in that arena. Mayhap you are not being fair. In this cartoon arena, you just pooped on his pixel manhood while he was giving away one of the hairy arsed secrets so many lust after.
If you haven't noticed, he doesn't give a ratz hairy part about your real world experience as a real pilot because how can he compete at that level. You win there like killing a gnat with a nuke. What matters is his perception that he is superior at manipulating a kiddy game against other kiddys and you are one the of the old ferts he can make cry in some manner.
You are going to have to live with that. He is not going to change or admit to your gnat nuking superiority as long as the arena is this kiddy game.
That sounds like a Chandelle or perhaps an Immelmann, depending the definition of vertical. Performed properly, neither includes a stall. So, the question remains as to why the word "stall" is included. Also, where did the term "stall turn" originate? As one of Traveler's posted YouTube videos demonstrates, a series of events, turn-stall-spin has ruined the day of many a pilot in the traffic pattern. It's certainly not a maneuver a well trained, competent pilot would depend on in air combat. :salute
Incorrect. A stall is exceeding the critical angle of attack. Load factor has no effect on when the wing stalls….the wing stalls at X angle of attack period.
Also, where did the term "stall turn" originate?
I wonder if it's a hold over from WW1. I've read a few WW1 pilot accounts that mention doing a stall turn while "stunting" (aerobatics) and the descriptions of the maneuvers themselves appear to be maneuvers like hammerheads and chandelles.Although the aircraft may be on the verge of a stall, a properly performed hammerhead or Chandelle doesn't include stalling the aircraft.
ack-ack
Dang, can't believe you guys are still arguing this stuff. :rofl
Not every discussion is an argument. open discussion and debate is how education is advanced.