Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Slade on March 04, 2015, 10:29:44 AM
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Got close today to some B-26s. Tracked them for 3 sectors. They bailed when I got close just outside of proxy range.
Again climbed out to fly cap...
Got close to some Lancs. Tracked them for 3 sectors. They bailed when I got close just outside of proxy range.
Others reported to me on 200 they were experiencing the same thing. Old topic on this BBS.
I wish there was more of a cost to deter this kinda behavior. I dont necessarily need their proxy kill(s). Would have been nice to at least have a chance to EARN them.
Wonder what could be done?
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Everything I've ever seen suggested on the subject was either easily circumventable, completely gamey, punitive to bombers who die legitimately, or wouldn't be a motivator for someone who just wants to blow something up and doesn't care about anything else.
It's just not something that can be fixed without downsides that outweigh the upside. I've just learned to rationalize it as if they don't make it to target, I count it as a win and move on. If they stick around after drop for me to make them pay for it, that's just a bonus.
Wiley.
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yep, just had 2 bomb n bailers in less than 30 minutes. Would it be possible to take score away from those that bail from undamaged bombers?
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yep, just had 2 bomb n bailers in less than 30 minutes. Would it be possible to take score away from those that bail from undamaged bombers?
Sure. Why would that motivate them? Bomb and bailers only want to blow something up and bail so they can reup without having to RTB.
Wiley.
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There are two types of bomb'n'bail (or just bail)
The first is the true bomb'n'bail. For him this is the kost 'efficient' way to play the war, as it just daves him the return time. He doesn't care about score at all (if he did, he wouldn't bail at all)
There's about nothing that can be done about it
The second one only bails when engaged. He does it to deny the enemy a possible kill. Often he does let an suspected enemy fly into icon range. If it's a 'dangerous' plane to him, he bails.
Score isn't that important to him, else he wouldn't take a certain triple death over a possible death. He just doesn't wan't to 'give' the opposing player a kill, no matter what.
Only extending the proxy range to icon range would have some effect here.
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yep, just had 2 bomb n bailers in less than 30 minutes. Would it be possible to take score away from those that bail from undamaged bombers?
No cuz if I up and see a base under attack and bail to help why should I get pinged for that??????
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It's as Wiley said; if they are bomb n' bailing, what makes you really think they give a hoot about their score?
But...
First would be, do you have film of each time it happens? If so, is it always the same people? These questions also come into play: Does it ALWAYS happen around a certain distance? Say proxy is 5k (I honestly do not know what our proxy range is now, 5k is just an example): Do they ALWAYS bail around 5.25-5.75k out, kind of thing? Look for a set distance, or tiny distance range in the films. One more question would be: Does bailing happen around that distance range, regardless if you are creeping up on them at 10MPH from dead 6, or coming at them at 800MPH from high 12?
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Until HTC changes the scoring/point system so it is detrimental for bomb-n-bail faygots, it will continue.
A: Apply a small perk cost to the B26's and above (B17, 24, Lancs). Don't whine until you think about how easy it is to earn bomber perk points and how little you have to spend those perk point on.
B: Offer ZERO perk points for bailing out of undamaged aircraft. Bailing out of a perfectly good airplane should be a major taboo.
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Until HTC changes the scoring/point system so it is detrimental for bomb-n-bail faygots, it will continue.
A: Apply a small perk cost to the B26's and above (B17, 24, Lancs). Don't whine until you think about how easy it is to earn bomber perk points and how little you have to spend those perk point on.
B: Offer ZERO perk points for bailing out of undamaged aircraft. Bailing out of a perfectly good airplane should be a major taboo.
Regarding B- And if they auger or nose down until wingrip?
Wiley.
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I've just learned to rationalize it as if they don't make it to target, I count it as a win and move on.
I like this thought. Mission accomplished! The orphanage has been saved!
Nevertheless, it would be nice to have incentive to engage in combat, not avoid it.
- oldman
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No cuz if I up and see a base under attack and bail to help why should I get pinged for that??????
I meant lose the score for that run, if you want to keep your score for that run don't bail. Wouldn't hurt would it.
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Text buffer message across all three countries, player x just bailed from undamaged bomber y or z. At least you could shoot at them during the race for the ground.
Skuzzy would ban stick Hitech if he ever coded that.
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Have it show up on the buffer "*playername* has bailed out of *aircraft type*"
Then publicly humiliate them for it
(Beat me to it)
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Increase the bail range to similar distance to what you see in the film viewer. Definitely longer than 6.0k. anyone know the range? At least some kills would be awarded for those willing to put in the work to intercept.
Also, can we do something about those who fly off the map. Some maps you can kill them, some maps you can't. I'll chase them off the map, just let me shoot them down.
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Bombing and bailing is dishonorable. Bailing to avoid a kill is downright slimy.
Dallash
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Any damage caused by bombers if not shot down all damage is immediately repaired. That goes for all the one way trippers as well.
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Any damage caused by bombers if not shot down all damage is immediately repaired. That goes for all the one way trippers as well.
They still get their perks, so most won't care. If anything, you just made it easier to farm for perks really. Up Ki-67's, hit town center, bail. Rinse and repeat.
Also, what is your definition of "shot down"? :headscratch:
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I still believe that perking heavy ordinance would contribute to a solution here. It would have to be part of a more dynamic perk system but basically if repeated failures to complete missions degrades the ability to load heavier ordinance then the motivation increases to bring the planes home or the ability to influence arena game play thru bombing is diminished.
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I still believe that perking heavy ordinance would contribute to a solution here. It would have to be part of a more dynamic perk system but basically if repeated failures to complete missions degrades the ability to load heavier ordinance then the motivation increases to bring the planes home or the ability to influence arena game play thru bombing is diminished.
I don't see how this will really work out though. For fighters, yes. But for bombers? No. :headscratch:
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As I said before, put a small perk tag on the drones (1st bomber for free). If they want to bail for free they should take a single buff.
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Have it show up on the buffer "*playername* has bailed out of *aircraft type*"
Then publicly humiliate them for it
(Beat me to it)
I ball from aircraft all the time and so do others just to go somewhere else to fight.
But think of this scenario., there's an noe raid at a certain base the all of a sudden the warning comes on country and the text buffer fills up with 10 or 15 pilots that just ball out of undamaged aircraft. a sure warning to the noe guys that they have been found.
bailing out is just like hoing, you are not going to stop it.
And to finish, not that I don't believe you guys but I find bombers every day I fly, but it is rare for me to find one that bails. Think some exaggeration is high in this thread.
semp
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The second one only bails when engaged. He does it to deny the enemy a possible kill.
yyyYep. That does seem to be the recurring pattern to me.
Good posts all. Maybe AH will see one or more suggestions for change in here that they feel are reasonable.
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No to most of the above. The game is suppose to be fun and trying to mold behavior through punishment is a tough road. The fix (if one is needed) is increasing the reward for bombers who don't bail. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Quit trying to make them drink. Make him thirsty and he'll drink on his own.
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And to finish, not that I don't believe you guys but I find bombers every day I fly, but it is rare for me to find one that bails. Think some exaggeration is high in this thread.
semp
It may have something to do with playing time. I relatively rarely see a buff bail during primetime. I much more often see them bail when I get to play on weekend mornings/afternoons. It seems plausible the same would apply on weekdays.
Wiley.
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There are more than a few long time players doing this, and they know better. :frown:
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Sorry, I meant time of day that it tends to happen, not amount of playing time.
People are going to do it, just like NOEs are going to bail/auger when discovered. I've come to the conclusion you just need to accept the bad with the good in a sandbox game. It gives you the freedom to do anything within the bounds of possibility in the game. It also gives other people that same ability. ;)
Wiley.
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I find that most of the fun involved with running buffs is either manning you guns to fend of fighters, or ditching your drones and slugging it out. I have bailed before, but only when there are no cons in the area and I have a long boring flight home.
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Sorry, I meant time of day that it tends to happen, not amount of playing time.
People are going to do it, just like NOEs are going to bail/auger when discovered. I've come to the conclusion you just need to accept the bad with the good in a sandbox game. It gives you the freedom to do anything within the bounds of possibility in the game. It also gives other people that same ability. ;)
Wiley.
I have never seen a bish NOE raid bail due to being discovered. To me that just means we will have to wook a little harder and smarter to get the base.
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yep, just had 2 bomb n bailers in less than 30 minutes. Would it be possible to take score away from those that bail from undamaged bombers?
-1
While Understand your frustration, making someone be a target against their will, seems anti-freedom. You just have to manage your expectations, not everyone elses game play. :salute
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They still get their perks, so most won't care. If anything, you just made it easier to farm for perks really. Up Ki-67's, hit town center, bail. Rinse and repeat.
Also, what is your definition of "shot down"? :headscratch:
If you make a bomb run on strats for example & you manage to knock them down to 50% & bail immediately from undamaged aircraft. As well as nose diving to rip you aircraft apart auguring & so on. The strat immediately repairs its self no damage to strats no perk points no achievement of any kind for the now non mission.
If any enemy damages your plane by shooting at you & hits you as it is now he gets the credit & the perks if the pilot so wants to bail. If he chooses to bail at the sight of any enemy prior to bomb run proxy range increased to 30K for the closest enemy player. I have popped dar bar chasing bombers the moment they see it they bail. They are to far away for filming but time wasted by the pursuer should be rewarded any how with the 30K proxy.
:headscratch: Or something like that.
My perspective is you want what you do to count then fly home & land.
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If you make a bomb run on strats for example & you manage to knock them down to 50% & bail immediately from undamaged aircraft. As well as nose diving to rip you aircraft apart auguring & so on. The strat immediately repairs its self no damage to strats no perk points no achievement of any kind for the now non mission.
Ok, so what if he comes in low and is hit by auto ack? Is that a legitimate death or would the damage be reset?
If any enemy damages your plane by shooting at you & hits you as it is now he gets the credit & the perks if the pilot so wants to bail. If he chooses to bail at the sight of any enemy prior to bomb run proxy range increased to 30K for the closest enemy player. I have popped dar bar chasing bombers the moment they see it they bail. They are to far away for filming but time wasted by the pursuer should be rewarded any how with the 30K proxy.
I don't really see how that would discourage the behavior, but it would apparently make you feel better?
Wiley.
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Ok, so what if he comes in low and is hit by auto ack? Is that a legitimate death or would the damage be reset? Legit
I don't really see how that would discourage the behavior, but it would apparently make you feel better? You think people will keep flying bombers for no possible gain of any kind for bailing every time? Won't make me feel any better because as a wish it will be there with every other one I have asked for :headscratch: It has never happened.
Wiley.
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Legit
So when the guy comes in, takes a few pings from the ack, and then augers, that's an improvement?
Wiley.
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So when the guy comes in, takes a few pings from the ack, and then augers, that's an improvement?
Wiley.
If all the other stuff was done I said.
Yes.
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If all the other stuff was done I said.
Yes.
So the bomber comes in, drops. Turns his plane around and flies through the puffy ack and takes a couple pings, then augers. That is legitimate and wouldn't reset his damage?
Wiley.
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I think if folk put up a solution to stand on its own it will get shot down..... Clearly it's not a problem that gets eradicated in a single fix.
Looking at what motivates bomber pilots to bail we see..... ( from some players perspectives)
-Long potentially boring and time consuming flights home after hitting target
- threat of attack from enemy aircraft and virtual death.
We can of course comment upon the character of players who do such stuff and whine that it is not within the spirit of the game play as intended. But this resolves nothing.
So how do we motivate players not to bail? Can we,from their perspective, make it more fun not to bail? If not can we create an alternative to bailing that does not deny the attacking aircraft access to the fun he has spent time (climbing?) to achieve?
Clearly bomber/bailers see the fun of bombing but not the fun of returning to base...... or at leastthe rtb is of lesser value than the objects destroyed. My view is that the reward for rtb should be increased in comparison to bailing. Using all the tools available ( perks, attaboy's achievements, score etc etc) plus any other new rewards folk can think of.
If none of this is considered compensation for the long time spent flying back then enable AI return of empty bombers to at least allow the interceptors access to interception and the bomber pilot immediate access to another mission. Motivate the bomber pilot with rewards to do this rather than bail.
Ensure that in every respect there is no advantage to bailing instead of fighting.
Finally reward the consistently returning bomber pilot with access to better ordinance either thru the perk system or some other mechanism....possibly even a future consideration to enable field mods to planes that have rtb'd.
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One alternative use of AI could be such that the act of bailing causes AI to take over the bomber.
Think of AI as the Co-pilot who did not bail out and continued to fly it home or ride the stricken aircraft to its doom.
Now our bomber bailer is back at base and able to launch another mission. He/she has probably not maximised perks or score or earned attaboys. But has earned some more rewards when compared to just flying the bombers into the ground,
The bombers left flying are trying to get back to the launch base ( which may not be the best route) but are available for interception.
Those intercepting get full credits and are shown as achieving kills on the bomber bailer.
I guess the players FE is having to fly them so there is a resource debate there.
To disable the AI bombers the player would have to altF4.
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Tilt, I think you have a very good idea there. :aok
One of the reasons for the bomber/bailer is simply Operations Management.
Get the most ordnance to the target as quickly as possible.
Time from takeoff to target is mandatory.
Any time spent in the air that you're not delivering ord. to target is wasted, therefore needs to be eliminated.
So, once the ord is out, you're wasting time in the air. Get out of the air and launch with more ord.
The only way you're going to stop that is to adjust the efficiency of the damage/time formula.
Now, perhaps as a motivation, if Tilt's idea is imposed, The damage done by the bombers that are abandoned by the bailing pilot should have the down time period reduced significantly.
Might not be efficient if the hangars you just leveled pop in 5 minutes ( before you could return the base with more ord ).
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Clearly bomber/bailers see the fun
i'm not entirely convinced that type of player has fun at all to begin with..
you constantly hear them talk on country channel about doing "work" (porking, etc) in the game. and if you make a point to tell them you're there to have fun and not to work, they go ape on you for not playing their way.
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-1
While Understand your frustration, making someone be a target against their will, seems anti-freedom. You just have to manage your expectations, not everyone elses game play. :salute
Just by upping in an online environment, each player has agreed to be "a target". If they don't want to engage in combat or interact with others, they can start the game in offline mode or create their own custom arena.
Oh, and for those who asked, the manueverkillrange "proxy range" is 2k (6000 feet) and can be checked in the arena settings.
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i'm not entirely convinced that type of player has fun at all to begin with..
you constantly hear them talk on country channel about doing "work" (porking, etc) in the game. and if you make a point to tell them you're there to have fun and not to work, they go ape on you for not playing their way.
Call it "job satisfaction" then........... its all the same, its the "emotional bit" that makes you want to do it again.............
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Just by upping in an online environment, each player has agreed to be "a target". If they don't want to engage in combat or interact with others, they can start the game in offline mode or create their own custom arena.
If that logic holds up, then there is no reason to have a "bail out" option. Change the game so that you are in your plane until your die, or you .ef.
-1 for that idea as well. :salute
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As I said before, put a small perk tag on the drones (1st bomber for free). If they want to bail for free they should take a single buff.
This.
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So the bomber comes in, drops. Turns his plane around and flies through the puffy ack and takes a couple pings, then augers. That is legitimate and wouldn't reset his damage?
Wiley.
My mistake.
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I see why you are so concerned now with my posts you bail out of bombers more than you land them.
No he does not. Ever. I've know Wiley for 10 years, from WarBirds to here. Wiley ALWAYS play's fair, to a fault. I've got no idea what set you off but again sir, you are dead wrong.
I expect an apology to Wiley sir.
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I see why you are so concerned now with my posts you bail out of bombers more than you land them.
:rofl I fly to intercept buffs and fighters, mostly. On the rare occasions when I do fly buffs, it's usually to take out a CV, which means lower alt, which means I get shot down a lot. I can unequivocally say that in this game I've never bailed from any aircraft in the arenas that wasn't on its way down due to damage. Not once.
I am concerned with your posts because your idea is laughably easy to get around, therefore would have no effect on the behavior. That's all.
Wiley.
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No he does not. Ever. I've know Wiley for 10 years, from WarBirds to here. Wiley ALWAYS play's fair, to a fault. I've got no idea what set you off but again sir, you are dead wrong.
I expect an apology to Wiley sir.
Your right I misread the stats.
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:rofl I fly to intercept buffs and fighters, mostly. On the rare occasions when I do fly buffs, it's usually to take out a CV, which means lower alt, which means I get shot down a lot. I can unequivocally say that in this game I've never bailed from any aircraft in the arenas that wasn't on its way down due to damage. Not once.
I am concerned with your posts because your idea is laughably easy to get around, therefore would have no effect on the behavior. That's all.
Wiley.
My apologies I was wrong I misread the stats.
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My apologies I was wrong I misread the stats.
Ah, ok. I was kind of wondering what you were looking at, I don't think I've touched a buff in months. No worries in any case. :salute
Wiley.
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Good man Lyric :salute
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Sooooo.....
Any ideas on which group of players someone is going to ask Hitech to horse whip next month?
1. - HO'ers
2. - Lancstuka'ers
3. - Shade account'ers
4. - Score whoer 'ers
5. - Spawn camper'ers
6. - Ack hider'ers
7. - Runstanger'ers
8. - Ch200 whiner'ers
9. - Rader and ord kamikazier'ers
10. - HQ bomb and bailer'ers
There are several more but, Skuzzy has decided to ban players over those these days. So even HTC has a limit to this.
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11. Alt Monkeys
(wortheless denizeens of the Zoneysphere, contribute nothing to the game, the scourge of AFK's and Bombers, lets perk them if they go above 15k)
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Sooooo.....
Any ideas on which group of players someone is going to ask Hitech to horse whip next month?
1. - HO'ers
2. - Lancstuka'ers
3. - Shade account'ers
4. - Score whoer 'ers
5. - Spawn camper'ers
6. - Ack hider'ers
7. - Runstanger'ers
8. - Ch200 whiner'ers
9. - Rader and ord kamikazier'ers
10. - HQ bomb and bailer'ers
There are several more but, Skuzzy has decided to ban players over those these days. So even HTC has a limit to this.
11. Alt Monkeys
12. - Vulcher'ers
13. - All of the above, and more.
I'll take $50 on 13, bustr. (Sad thing is, I bet if one monitored the BBS for the month and ticked them off as they were mentioned, you would honestly hit every one of them.)
Wiley.
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It's simple to see that the wussification trend within the general population has come to aces high.
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If Hitech let the DA'ers redesign the game, the MA would be 5mile x 5mile bordered with 50,000ft cliffs. No airfields, just air start spawns from your clipboard. And ch200 would be full of, go to the TA you worthless sissy useless dreg of life shoulda been strangled at birth.
Then when the last 10 subscribers were left. They would be in here attacking Hitech for not making this game attractive to the right kind of people.
The entirety of that silly list describes the most important aspect of keeping customers staying in a combat game. A way out no matter what, if they have not goofed and gotten blind sided.
You will not keep many customers in a combat game if they perceive it to be a "Kobayashi Maru" in the face of the type of fun they want to accomplish with their limited amount of time online.
The 50,000ft cliffs and air start only would be one heck of a horse whipping from Hitech's hand. If he swings a whip to force paying customers to perceive they now face a "Kobayashi Maru" where they once had fun. You will have fewer players than we have now. None of you with this request of the month horse whipping by Hitech, are facing a "Kobayashi Maru" by those players you want whipped over their activities.
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Can you imagine the fun everyone would have!
Sooooo.....
Any ideas on which group of players someone is going to ask Hitech to horse whip next month?
1. - HO'ers People maneuvering for shots and to avoid being hit by one!
2. - Lancstuka'ers HEavy bombers being used as... wait for it... HEAVY BOMBERS!
3. - Shade account'ers Knowing who your fighting, much like in the war where the hot shots had special marking BOLDLY proclaiming who there were instead of hiding
4. - Score whoer 'ers Score might mean something and could be used as a gauge
5. - Spawn camper'ers people traveling in convoys with out riders protection in groups, having other groups intersept and ambush!
6. - Ack hider'ers People having to fight instead of hide!
7. - Runstanger'ers People having to fight instead of hide!
8. - Ch200 whiner'ers People having fun being CIVIL to each other!
9. - Rader and ord kamikazier'ers People having to fight instead of hide!
10. - HQ bomb and bailer'ers People having to fight instead of hide!
There are several more but, Skuzzy has decided to ban players over those these days. So even HTC has a limit to this.
...and if your referring to the 12 hours rule, the topic is not taboo, the attitude and lack of respect toward HTC IS.
It's funny, a game about combat has so many ways to avoid it!
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Sooooo.....
Any ideas on which group of players someone is going to ask Hitech to horse whip next month?
14. Grouchy old men.
- oldman (you know who you are)
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If that logic holds up, then there is no reason to have a "bail out" option. Change the game so that you are in your plane until your die, or you .ef.
-1 for that idea as well. :salute
point nose down, hit the floor, you die end of flight.
semp
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Any ideas on which group of players someone is going to ask Hitech to horse whip next month?
Taking things out of context can skew the issue of course. The question really is: "does the said event\action keep paid players from the prime objective of this game: Air Combat?".
If so what can reasonably be done about it? THAT is the entire context with respect to Bomber Bailing as described here. Those that bail with the single intention to deprive another of the opportunity of combat. There are many bailing actions that do not do this. More power to them.
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The reason these guys bail is fairly simple. From their perspective they quickly run into information overload and do not know how to go about combating a fighter that understands how to attack bombers. There is even a small percentage of bomber pilots that have such terrible PC performance that even a fighter that sits 600 yards off the tail is impossible to hit. There is also a few pilots that immediately dive to the deck so that the only possible attack is from their six position, but also they are trying to just cross the fence on any possible target to hit with their bombs. If you, as a fighter pilot, can force this behavior from a bomber pilot that has taken so much time to gain that hard-won altitude, then you have won.
The only thing HTC could possibly do is extend the proximity range to 10k for bomber aircraft in enemy territory, but that would only work to get your name in lights more often when you have not actually fought anyone. To me, that's worse than bailing from a perfectly sound bomber. We will just have to live with this as part of online combat.
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It's funny, a game about combat has so many ways to avoid it!
HTC needs to add the little radar screen that they have in War Thunder. The only difference is it will ALWAYS show which way enemy aircraft and ground vehicles are. Pulling up the map will show every enemy plane and gv as well. The visual icon showing the plane and/or gv will pop up at 10k, and will always show regardless if they are behind clouds, terrain and/or buildings. This will work from a gv as well.
I have solved your problem with people hiding. :neener:
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Can you imagine the fun everyone would have!
...and if your referring to the 12 hours rule, the topic is not taboo, the attitude and lack of respect toward HTC IS.
It's funny, a game about combat has so many ways to avoid it!
Lets all start singing Age of Aquarius and don our gender neutral bunny suits and hold hands. Otherwise accept the human condition is generally being a coward where it comes to risking ones self, how ever the format. They are not playing a combat game to fight against you and beat your manhood. They are playing a game to avoid you the evil monster trying to kill them while making you cry.
Saying that, what group of lesser beings do you wish Hitech to horse whip next month?
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If I up bombers..I fly them till I land or die.
The only exception is Bostons...than I'll bail 2 and fight ya with one left...
But that's just me.
JGroth
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Lets all start singing Age of Aquarius and don our gender neutral bunny suits and hold hands. Otherwise accept the human condition is generally being a coward where it comes to risking ones self, how ever the format. They are not playing a combat game to fight against you and beat your manhood. They are playing a game to avoid you the evil monster trying to kill them while making you cry.
Saying that, what group of lesser beings do you wish Hitech to horse whip next month?
If they think they are "risking" themselves they have far too many problems and should not be wasting money on a game and should instead invest in a good shrink!
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If I up bombers..I fly them till I land or die.
The only exception is Bostons...than I'll bail 2 and fight ya with one left...
But that's just me.
JGroth
on the other hand if the fighter only attacks when in a position of advantage, then I'll bail out just to upset him :). the irony is that some of the guys who yell the loudest will only attack a bomber when they have the advantage. and some of them wont even attack a fighter unless they have the advantage and when they lose it then they run.
semp
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on the other hand if the fighter only attacks when in a position of advantage, then I'll bail out just to upset him :). the irony is that some of the guys who yell the loudest will only attack a bomber when they have the advantage. and some of them wont even attack a fighter unless they have the advantage and when they lose it then they run.
semp
Why wouldnt they attack from a position of advantage? Thats the point of flying a fast and agile fighter, to put yourself in the best possible position before the attack on the bombers. No point of climb to 25-30k and then attack from dead 6 and get shot down before u even scratch the paint of the bombers.
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Why wouldnt they attack from a position of advantistudmuffine? Thats the point of flying a fast and agile fighter, to put yourself in the best possible position before the attack on the bombers. No point of climb to 25-30k and then attack from dead 6 and get shot down before u even scratch the paint of the bombers.
think about it the fighter pilot has the option to attack or run. Why remove that option from the bombers, let them run (bail) if they choose to do so.
semp
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(To the tune of "If you're happy and you know it")
Iiiiiif you're at a disadvantage just hit "bail"
If you're at a disadvantage just hit "bail"
If you're at a disadvantage
and you really just can't manage
If you're at a disadvantage just hit "bail"
think about it the fighter pilot has the option to attack or run. Why remove that option from the bombers, let them run (bail) if they choose to do so.
semp
Graphics and game mechanics are nothing. This right here is the biggest thing wrong with the game.
Wiley.
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wiley do you attack every single target you see? Do you deprive other players of a kill because you decide to rtb instead? Do you fight till you die every single sorty? Ever used ack on b your own base to avoid b getting killed?.
What is wrong with b the game is people exagerating a problem that doesn't exist. I have seen 1 set of Bombers bail in past few weeks.
semp
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wiley do you attack every single target you see? Do you deprive other players of a kill because you decide to rtb instead?
rtb'ing and bailing are two different things
do you bail out of ar234's? or do you rtb? i'm guessing you rtb them because they are fast enough. so, bailing is being done purely to avoid combat/getting killed
you might have a point about it being exaggerated though, i personally haven't had bombers bail on me that i can remember.. i don't play all that much lately though.
whatever the case i don't see the problem with extending the proxy range to 6k or even the maximum (10k?)
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wiley do you attack every single target you see? Do you deprive other players of a kill because you decide to rtb instead? Do you fight till you die every single sorty? Ever used ack on b your own base to avoid b getting killed?.
If I have bullets and enough fuel to deadstick home, pretty much. I use whatever I have at my disposal, but very rarely ack drag, about the only time I'm going to do that is if I'm upping into a vulch. Usually I up 1 base over in that situation so it rarely happens. What you're advocating for is essentially equivalent to a fighter bailing anytime someone gets his six. It is beyond lame.
What is wrong with b the game is people exagerating a problem that doesn't exist. I have seen 1 set of Bombers bail in past few weeks.
semp
I only see 3 or 4ish a month, but they are generally all during the day. I've noticed it in particular during the day not on stat holidays. Daytime seems to bring out the milkrunners for some reason. Most of my playtime is primetime. I'm betting depending on time of day you play the problem is larger or smaller. I'm happy you don't see it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I rarely see Lancstukas. I rarely half the things people talk about happening to them all the time in game, doesn't mean they don't exist.
Wiley.
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I only see 3 or 4ish a month, but they are generally all during the day.
It all depends what / how you are flying. A palyer that does the standard base centred low/med altitude stuff will see them less often, and mostly of the "bail after drop" type.
If you are hunting strat raiders, you will encounter them much more often, mostly of the "bail when enemy shows up" kind.
Just now I had upped for a suspicios darbar, which I thought to be a potential city raider.
And what happens after tracking down the Tu-2's at in my Ta152H 17k after about 20 minutes of searching? - As soon as I get into his icon range, AseHold bails from all three...
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Your AsHold must have known the same feelings as unescorted bomber crews over Europe in 43.
This is one of the few places a random AI bomber stream like the timed trains might be applicable to the MA. Otherwise you are requesting Hitech target a specific group of paying customers and publicly horse whip them for paying him $14.95 because you are unhappy.
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Your AsHold must have known the same feelings as unescorted bomber crews over Europe in 43.
This is one of the few places a random AI bomber stream like the timed trains might be applicable to the MA. Otherwise you are requesting Hitech target a specific group of paying customers and publicly horse whip them for paying him $14.95 because you are unhappy.
Making proxy range and icon show range the same is "horsewipping" customers? :rolleyes:
And no, I don't want to shoot AI drones out of the sky. I signed up to hunt and battle cunning, elusive & skilled humans. I don't have any interest in timed AI bomber streams. I might as well play an offline game then.
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Your AsHold must have known the same feelings as unescorted bomber crews over Europe in 43.
Ah yes... the history books are filled to the brim with tales of the bomber crews bravely leaping from their aircraft upon sight of the enemy.
This is one of the few places a random AI bomber stream like the timed trains might be applicable to the MA. Otherwise you are requesting Hitech target a specific group of paying customers and publicly horse whip them for paying him $14.95 because you are unhappy.
Making Proxy range the max distance, and making proxies count for perks if you're in a vehicle (not field guns) would solve most of my issue with it. It would still suck but at least they wouldn't be 'cheating' me out of the perks I'm about to try to get.
Wiley.
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I have often wondered why anyone (fighter, attack or bomber) 'gets' perky points if they fail to land their kills/damage.
Shooting down multiple 51Ds, Spit XVIs and other high end critters in a Spit I is cool (not that I can), but if you fail to land the pelts why get the perks?
If you bomb tons of stuff but get kilt or bail, why get the perks?
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No, the bomber crews "had to" stay there and die. This is a game in which all of you seem to be unwilling to accept everyone has a choice of how they want to exercise their $14.95 when it boils down to you personally.
So which paying customers do you want Hitech to horse whip for what transgressing against you? You are painting yourselves as victims and supplicating Hitech to meter out punishment for your feelings of helplessness. Along with a certain amount of perk point related coitus interruptus.
With all of this effort now and in the past getting Hitech to manipulate how paying customers fly bombers. It looks like the time is ripe for AI bomber streams so Hitech doesn't discriminate against one group of paying customers for any other, who choose to loudly fly the victim flag in the forums.
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I have often wondered why anyone (fighter, attack or bomber) 'gets' perky points if they fail to land their kills/damage.
Actually this is made so that players are not too reluctant to fight. If you got no perks from your kills if you die, a lot of people would just race home after their first kill rather than risk dying for a second one. (And keep in mind that for most players getting two or more kills in a single sortie is actually relatively rare)
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So which paying customers do you want Hitech to horse whip for what transgressing against you? You are painting yourselves as victims and supplicating Hitech to meter out punishment for your feelings of helplessness. Along with a certain amount of perk point related coitus interruptus.
Explain in detail how giving the fighter the kill and perks for the bail is 'horsewhipping' the bomber pilot.
Wiley.
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Explain in detail how giving the fighter the kill and perks for the bail is 'horsewhipping' the bomber pilot.
Wiley.
you really want somebody to explain sarcasm to you?
semp
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you really want somebody to explain sarcasm to you?
semp
You sure about that? Doesn't read to me like sarcasm. If it is, my apologies but it's a bit subtle.
Wiley.
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If you need Hitech to horse whip someone because you are unhappy with how they choose to use their $14.95 and it's lord forbid, "not cheating". You are playing the victim and demanding Hitech pick winners and loosers to salve your hurt pride.
Might as well throw in if a player spawns during a base vulch he can't <.ef> the moment you shoot him. Or his tank on concrete when you bomb it. That's awful on his part because he is denying you something you feel you deserve. It's still just your hurt pride and you want Hitech to salve it by horse whipping him by changing the code or some function to benefit your pride. That constitutes Hitech being forced to choose winners and loosers to make you happy under the canard it's for the good of all. In reality it's only for the good of your pride or you wouldn't be in here whining about it.
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If you need Hitech to horse whip someone because you are unhappy with how they choose to use their $14.95
in this case, one party is attempting to have combat (in a combat game), and the other is trying to avoid it..
simply extending the proxy range (which already exists) is not forcing anyone to do anything.
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in this case, one party is attempting to have combat (in a combat game), and the other is trying to avoid it..
simply extending the proxy range (which already exists) is not forcing anyone to do anything.
kvuo you are a good stick. you really want to get kills when you dont shoot a single bullet? we had a set of s tu2's flying over the base last night, I took the wing off 2 of them and yet I got an assist. I am happy that I killed them, but you wont ever see me posting a thread asking to change the code so I can get a kill.
pretty sure you also have gotten into a fight with another guy and you took every single part off his plane, he crashed and somehow managed to get a ditch. I wont cry about it either, I know I nailed him/her, he knows. I need to fricking "zeroes and ones" telling me who I killed when i know who I did :).
If I make a set of bomber bail, which I rarely do, then I know I made them bail, that is funnier than hell.
once I had a zeke chase my b26's for 5 full sectors, I slowed enough to make him chase me, dont you think he was mad when he ran out of fuel as I said good bye and went on to land? you want to change the code to make the zeke's faster so they can catch b26's? I am pretty sure he wished it could be done :)>
semp
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kvuo you are a good stick. you really want to get kills when you dont shoot a single bullet? we had a set of s tu2's flying over the base last night, I took the wing off 2 of them and yet I got an assist. I am happy that I killed them, but you wont ever see me posting a thread asking to change the code so I can get a kill.
pretty sure you also have gotten into a fight with another guy and you took every single part off his plane, he crashed and somehow managed to get a ditch. I wont cry about it either, I know I nailed him/her, he knows. I need to fricking "zeroes and ones" telling me who I killed when i know who I did :).
If I make a set of bomber bail, which I rarely do, then I know I made them bail, that is funnier than hell.
once I had a zeke chase my b26's for 5 full sectors, I slowed enough to make him chase me, dont you think he was mad when he ran out of fuel as I said good bye and went on to land? you want to change the code to make the zeke's faster so they can catch b26's? I am pretty sure he wished it could be done :)>
semp
Sure. It's not a big deal. As I stated earlier in the thread, I do take comfort if he bails before drop due to my presence.
I just feel in general, if you get a proxy, you should get perks. If it's a kill, it's a kill. Either you should get perks from proxies, or you shouldn't get kills from proxies. I also feel that a guy bailing due to your presence should give you the benefit of having taken him out of play.
I seem to recall you've mentioned in the past the thousands of perks you have that you never use. If that's the case, good for you. Some of us like to use ours. It is the single number in this game that means anything to me.
To me, red aircraft are simply flying boxes of perks, some of which are harder to open than others. It would have no impact on gameplay, but it would make the cheesy opponent gameplay slightly less frustrating. I'm still trying to figure out what it would harm.
Wiley.
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Didn't get to read through everything.
One thing I have noticed lately is you see strats flashing but no DAR BAR. You up a plane and start looking fo ra NOE attack then all of a sudden a DARBAR appears and you see bombers 20K plus.
Did something change or is there a true glitch right now? I really haven't researched the forums lately for this but I know that if I see a strat runner flashing a strat, I like to try to get to them before they are bombs out.
Otherwise, you run into the bomb n bail thing. 1 set of lancs make it to HQ, drop it, then bail out. NOT COOL!!!
I have no complaint so long as we have that fighting chance to intercept based on accurate map and radar information.
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I have no complaint so long as we have that fighting chance to intercept based on accurate map and radar information.
Not sure if you caught it but some are saying, not being able to bail in any instance they choose to infringes on their right to fly as they see fit, i.e. their $/month.
It naturally beckons the question: This is a WWII Flight Sim where the main objective is Air Combat right?
(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131217081420/cardfight/images/8/8a/Triple_facepalm.png)
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Did something change or is there a true glitch right now?
It's a bug known for years now.
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Making proxy range and icon show range the same is "horsewipping" customers? :rolleyes:
And no, I don't want to shoot AI drones out of the sky. I signed up to hunt and battle cunning, elusive & skilled humans. I don't have any interest in timed AI bomber streams. I might as well play an offline game then.
This :aok
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Increasing proxy range isn't going to change anything, because it changes nothing for the Buff pilot.
Currently when he bails:
Down side 1 = he loses three buffs, gets three deaths.
Up side 1 = he saves time not having to continue a mission that is essentially over due to bombs are dropped already or he will be shot down shortly
Up side 2 = he denies someone credit for his three deaths. [no in game benefit for Buff pilot]
New plan [you change icon blah blah blah whatever thingy]
Down side 1 = he loses three buffs, gets three deaths.
Down side 2 = someone may get 3 kills for his three deaths. [no in game benefit for Buff pilot]
Up side 1 = he saves time not having to continue a mission that is essentially over due to bombs are dropped already or he will be shot down shortly
Analysis: So your logic is that under the New Plan the buff pilot will fight it out to deny the attacker three kills. But the buff pilot knows he's going to died if he fights it out...that's why he's bailing. Hence the attacker gets three kills either way, so the buff pilot is still going to bail to save time.
Conclusion: this rule is not about ensuring combat, it's about ensuring kill credit.
Result: -1
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Still think adding a perk price to the drones on heavy bombers would help.
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Our community has distilled down to a population point that we now cannot easily avoid noticing things other players do that irritate us. Players have always done those things. With a higher population density your chances of running into repugnant behavior to your perspective was less frequent. While your chances of involvement in activities that you enjoy was much higher.
So now that you are stuck with those players doing what they have always done that you didn't have smeared in your face as often. You want Hitech to horse whip them for doing what they have always done.
So next month it will be a new request for Hitech to horse whip players over things they have always done up until now, where you cannot avoid interacting with them as easily as before.
It's kind of obvious there have always been some delicate sensibilities just waiting to be offended. I doubt anyone recently came down with this terminal case of thin skin.
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Still think adding a perk price to the drones on heavy bombers would help.
Agreed it would help with this situation, but I think it has the potential to reduce buff use in general which I don't think would be a good thing. :salute
In the end, the if he bails...the buffs are down...mission accomplished! :rock
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Analysis: So your logic is that under the New Plan the buff pilot will fight it out to deny the attacker three kills.
Nope. There's no incentive for him not to bail. It is impossible to change the behavior without penalizing legit buff players. No matter what he's going to bail, I just don't think he should deny the defender the points. In an ideal world, the fact that he's not getting to deny the fighter the kill and points *might* encourage him to try to shoot down the fighter, because it's all about making something bad happen to the other guy.
Conclusion: this rule is not about ensuring combat, it's about ensuring kill credit.
Result: -1
The only reason he exists other than the fight itself is to provide me with perks. If he's going to deny me one, explain in detail what it harms to prevent him from denying the other?
Wiley.
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Increasing proxy range isn't going to change anything, because it changes nothing for the Buff pilot.
Currently when he bails:
Down side 1 = he loses three buffs, gets three deaths.
Up side 1 = he saves time not having to continue a mission that is essentially over due to bombs are dropped already or he will be shot down shortly
Up side 2 = he denies someone credit for his three deaths. [no in game benefit for Buff pilot]
New plan [you change icon blah blah blah whatever thingy]
Down side 1 = he loses three buffs, gets three deaths.
Down side 2 = someone may get 3 kills for his three deaths. [no in game benefit for Buff pilot]
Up side 1 = he saves time not having to continue a mission that is essentially over due to bombs are dropped already or he will be shot down shortly
Analysis: So your logic is that under the New Plan the buff pilot will fight it out to deny the attacker three kills. But the buff pilot knows he's going to died if he fights it out...that's why he's bailing. Hence the attacker gets three kills either way, so the buff pilot is still going to bail to save time.
Conclusion: this rule is not about ensuring combat, it's about ensuring kill credit.
Result: -1
i dont think it would ensure combat, i think it might help discourage one specific type of griefing mentioned in this thread.. and at least the guy who wasted 20 minutes intercepting gets something (kill credit) to show for it.. and it doesn't take huge changes in the game.. just changing an arena parameter.
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The only reason he exists other than the fight itself is to provide me with perks. If he's going to deny me one, explain in detail what it harms to prevent him from denying the other?
Wiley.
we'll every time somebody kills you he denies you the perks, so would you also like to change the code so nobody can kill you? but if you dont have enough perks to fly whichever airplane you want, then you should rethink how you play the game. the fault is yours not the guy bailing out. whatever 1 or 2 perks you would have earned arent gonna help you if you waste them faster than you earn them.
semp
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Some much negativity against the buff players.
Just because they do not play by your self-perceived set of rules does not mean you have the right to force penalization on anyone.
It's their money that pays for their game.
Why not just leave them alone?
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Too bad the bomb n bailers dont realize what they miss. to have a guy spending 20 mins to get up to u and then u shoot him down as soon as he goes within gun range. Buff pilot = :rofl Fighter stick = :bhead
Again: With a little practice u can make the fighters pay a heavy prize for every bomber they kill. the best buff pilots kills more fighters than they loose bombers...
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we'll every time somebody kills you he denies you the perks, so would you also like to change the code so nobody can kill you? but if you dont have enough perks to fly whichever airplane you want, then you should rethink how you play the game. the fault is yours not the guy bailing out. whatever 1 or 2 perks you would have earned arent gonna help you if you waste them faster than you earn them.
semp
Er... the guy killing me is part of "the fight itself" part of what I said? I know you're devil's advocating, but c'mon now.
So what you're saying is, you'd be happy if you were in a furball and half the guys you got a shot on bailed before you could pull the trigger? The fault would be yours, not the guy bailing out right? That would be some awesomely fun gameplay right there, wouldn't it?
Nobody's said anything about how increasing the proxy range affects anything negatively yet. I wonder why that is?
Too bad the bomb n bailers dont realize what they miss. to have a guy spending 20 mins to get up to u and then u shoot him down as soon as he goes within gun range. Buff pilot = :rofl Fighter stick = :bhead
Again: With a little practice u can make the fighters pay a heavy prize for every bomber they kill. the best buff pilots kills more fighters than they loose bombers...
This too. Both sides have invested a fair bit of time and prep to get to the point of the fighting. Seems a shame to waste it all.
Wiley.
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Er... the guy killing me is part of "the fight itself" part of what I said? I know you're devil's advocating, but c'mon now.
So what you're saying is, you'd be happy if you were in a furball and half the guys you got a shot on bailed before you could pull the trigger? The fault would be yours, not the guy bailing out right? That would be some awesomely fun gameplay right there, wouldn't it?
no wiley I am not playing devil's advocate but stating a fact. fighter pilots have the choice of when or how to attack a bomber while the bomber has no choice at all. for example yesterday I upped bombers to sink a cv, the cv was gone so I went in to bomb a base. found an la7 and a ki8. ki84 attacked and hit one of my bombers pretty good while I was in the bomb site. I dropped bombs then turned to guns. ki84 attacked again and got one of my bombers while I was busy watching the la7 come straight up my six. the la7 disco'd and I got a proxy, which is an unearned kill to me. ki 84 made another pass and got my main bomber while I hit him again. I was down to my last bomber when he made a pass by then I had taken out almost every part of his plane, including pw, I swear that guy was wearing just one of those hats with a propeller on top. he broke off and went to land.
I made it back to base but I felt that while he earned his 2 kills, i was robbed of the second one. now to be fair do you see me coming here and post a thread that if a fighter engages a bomber he must stay till either he kills all 3 or he dies?
to me bailing out or avoiding combat or rtb's because of damage to land is the same thing while I am in bombers. you robbed me of a kill while you glided back to ditch or if lucky landed on the base.
to be fair shouldnt you also ask the code be changed to give bombers the kills they deserve when they damage an airplane and the fighter stop attacking because they dont want to die?
see the fairness of asking code be change for one but not for the other?
semp
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no wiley I am not playing devil's advocate but stating a fact. fighter pilots have the choice of when or how to attack a bomber while the bomber has no choice at all.
Um... Ok. Upping a bomber is a choice. It's the conscious choice to trade speed and maneuverability for firepower, durability, and ordnance. It's no different than the choice to up an early war plane that everything can run from, or to fly your fighter close to the ground where wirbles can get it.. You chose what you're going to do, you live with the consequences.
I made it back to base but I felt that while he earned his 2 kills, i was robbed of the second one. now to be fair do you see me coming here and post a thread that if a fighter engages a bomber he must stay till either he kills all 3 or he dies?
Nope. You chose to up a plane that can't run him down when he disengages. Same as if you were in a GV or a slower fighter.
to me bailing out or avoiding combat or rtb's because of damage to land is the same thing while I am in bombers. you robbed me of a kill while you glided back to ditch or if lucky landed on the base.
Then you should've killed his plane. Same as if you'd been in a fighter or a GV. You didn't do enough damage to prevent him RTBing. That's on you.
to be fair shouldnt you also ask the code be changed to give bombers the kills they deserve when they damage an airplane and the fighter stop attacking because they dont want to die?
By that logic, all aircraft should have the same speed in the game.
see the fairness of asking code be change for one but not for the other?
semp
What part of my desire to have all undamaged proxies go to the closest player regardless of what either of them may be flying is unfair? They conceded the fight, the victor should get their just reward. You STILL haven't given a reason why it's harmful.
Wiley.
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to be fair shouldnt you also ask the code be changed to give bombers the kills they deserve when they damage an airplane and the fighter stop attacking because they dont want to die?
no change needed.. as it currently exists, if you put one ping on the fighter and he doesn't land successfully you get a kill.
my suggestion of extending proxy range works both ways.. if a fighter slowly climbs up your 6 and bails out at 2k yds you'd get the proxy too.
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I have been thinking about the AI thing a bit more.
If we disconnect AI takes over for 5 minutes flying straight on the heading at the moment of disconnect
Why not use this mechanism when bailing from a "bomber" over enemy territory.......... simply he bails but the co pilot or navigator takes over flying straight.
It would be easier for HTC to implement than an RTB.
The only thing different is that the player is limited to only having one (one set) of these abandoned AI driven bombers (formations) in flight at any time.
The interceptor has 5 minutes to catch up or get in range of the abandoned bomber(s) and earns the kills appropriately
The bomber pilot gets back to base PDQ (captured scoring applies)
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Nope. There's no incentive for him not to bail. It is impossible to change the behavior without penalizing legit buff players. No matter what he's going to bail, I just don't think he should deny the defender the points. In an ideal world, the fact that he's not getting to deny the fighter the kill and points *might* encourage him to try to shoot down the fighter, because it's all about making something bad happen to the other guy.
The only reason he exists other than the fight itself is to provide me with perks. If he's going to deny me one, explain in detail what it harms to prevent him from denying the other?
Wiley.
Hmmm...I feel bad defending this because I'm always the fighter not the buff, but...If investing time in climbing to buffs has less pay off due to Bailing, then fewer fighters will attempt it, lowering the risk for Buff pilots. It's a strategy to reduce threats to the buffs. :salute
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Hmmm...I feel bad defending this because I'm always the fighter not the buff, but...If investing time in climbing to buffs has less pay off due to Bailing, then fewer fighters will attempt it, lowering the risk for Buff pilots. It's a strategy to reduce threats to the buffs. :salute
That make sense. I really don't think the game should do anything to encourage undamaged bailing or augering in any way though. Bailing over enemy territory should not be part of the game's strategy.
Wiley.
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Some much negativity against the buff players.
Just because they do not play by your self-perceived set of rules does not mean you have the right to force penalization on anyone.
It's their money that pays for their game.
Why not just leave them alone?
I actually am a buff player. While I do both, flying bombers and hunting them, I have spent more time in bombers than in fighters during the last few years.
So one can hardly accuse me of having an anti-bomber bias. Especially not if one knows a bit about my posting history on the topic of bombers in Aces High :aok
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Some much negativity against the buff players.
Nope just against the one's with lame gameplay
Just because they do not play by your self-perceived set of rules does not mean you have the right to force penalization on anyone.
Rules that any reasonable person would expect to have and follow
It's their money that pays for their game.
Yes, it's their money that game's the game.
Why not just leave them alone?
Seriously? Have you not read the other posts?