Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Warty on March 08, 2015, 10:51:03 AM
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I'm sure this has been proposed before, but I'm a newb, and after whatever terrain that was in the MA yesterday, it finally bugged me enough to come here and ask if something was not possible.
Problem:
- Many people who play the game just want to have airplane v airplane fights (at least some of the time)
- In some of the arenas, the fields are actually quite far apart, so you fly for 6 mins, fight for 30 seconds, repeat (yeah, I suck, but only one way to get better...)
- It is quite often hard to find a decent fight.
- Some people like to do field capture all the time, others like to do it some of the time. When someone takes down the fighter hanger at a field that had previously been part of a furball, that pretty much instantly kills the furball
Proposed Solution:
- In each main arena terrain, add 3 fields (near the center ideally), in a triangle relationship, one per country. These fields are the airplane equivalent of those GV fields grouped together. If you don't want to furball, you won't fly here. If you want to do field capture, the entire rest of the arena is available to you.
- The fields are each only a couple mins flying time from each other. half a grid?
- The targets at the field are 100x normal target strength. So, basically, you can't bomb them or disable the fields, or the field acks.
- The fields have no bombers or GVs. Only fighters.
- The fields are isolated from the other nearest fields. No GV spawn points, and takes you 25 mins to fly there if you really try.
- No player manned ack, but regular field ack is DEADLY. (can that be done? maybe a new super 200 mm ack with .50 cal fire rate). You try to vulch, you die pronto.
Is that something do-able with the current version of AH, via terrain editing? Is there something philosophically horrible about it?
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Well that map last night would be much better if the fields were closer together. That is a fly high and fast type of map. It is a tough map to fight on.
They do have a furball island in 2-3 of the maps. Normally they are pretty fun to fly in. But I think furball islands and such take away from point of the game. It is tough to make progress when half your team is fooling around in the furball island.
Being new is the tough part for you. You see I've played this for around 9 years now. It takes some time to learn how to find fights, what type of planes to fly in different situations, and how to be effective in order to get kills. From a new persons perspective the maps are huge, it is tough to the find people, and you spend most of the time climbing to a fight because you die quickly and reup. This is where training and experience come in to play. I'd recommend fighting a bit in the DA when you see people in there. It is just what you described, but is meant for nothing but practice and learning. I hope that you can begin to get better at the game and that it remains fun for you. The DA cam be some of the best fights and offers you some good for experience with fighting and furballs.
As a person who only really likes to furball myself. Trust me, I understand your sentiments. But it simply takes time and practice to become better at analyzing fights in the hanger, knowing what to fly, and where to fly in order to be successful in your missions. Hope this gives you some insight.
<S>
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As much as I agree with you that finding a good fight is a problem, this thread will not end well and the problem really is more player based than map based.
I've dabbled in tanks lately and it's funny how if you spawn at an enemy field in one literally a small horde will up to kill you. Yet if you fly to an enemy field it's usually crickets and no one will up to fight you. Pretty depressing that most would rather play whack a mole on tonka toys than engage in air combat. Of course, most of the guys who play this way (and have been here for years, and who tend to play for rank) couldn't get a kill against another airplane unless the other guy is afk watching Netflix going 110mph in a Zeke with his gears down.
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Of course, most of the guys who play this way (and have been here for years, and who tend to play for rank) couldn't get a kill against another airplane unless the other guy is afk watching Netflix going 110mph in a Zeke with his gears down.
Certainly not I!
I'd likely overshoot and end up ramming him.
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Take a stroll down memory lane. We had a great map with a dedicated Fighter Town; a large number of players liked it. The war could be won without taking the FT bases. It was removed from the rotation.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,162017.0.html
It's quite a few pages but a very enlightening read.
The guys that said stuff like this:
"But I think furball islands and such take away from point of the game. It is tough to make progress when half your team is fooling around in the furball island."
…won the argument with HTC.
See…if you won't participate in the war effort, you're supposed to be banned from the MA. There's no room in the main arena for people that just want to do what they want to do; you have to participate in the team war effort. Well…unless you're in a GV. Then you get a TankTown.
I predict this thread will not last long.
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Of course, most of the guys who play this way (and have been here for years, and who tend to play for rank) couldn't get a kill against another airplane unless the other guy is afk watching Netflix going 110mph in a Zeke with his gears down.
:rofl
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Invite people on channel 200 to go to Furball Lake in the DA, you can usually get a few people to go and a few is all it take to make it fun.
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Closer fields please. There's something for everybody on Fester's most recent map.
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See…if you won't participate in the war effort, you're supposed to be banned from the MA. There's no room in the main arena for people that just want to do what they want to do; you have to participate in the team war effort. Well…unless you're in a GV. Then you get a TankTown.
This is hilariously accurate. :lol
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Donut is still the only map I've ever actually liked.
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Take a stroll down memory lane. We had a great map with a dedicated Fighter Town; a large number of players liked it. The war could be won without taking the FT bases. It was removed from the rotation.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,162017.0.html
It's quite a few pages but a very enlightening read.
The guys that said stuff like this:
"But I think furball islands and such take away from point of the game. It is tough to make progress when half your team is fooling around in the furball island."
…won the argument with HTC.
See…if you won't participate in the war effort, you're supposed to be banned from the MA. There's no room in the main arena for people that just want to do what they want to do; you have to participate in the team war effort. Well…unless you're in a GV. Then you get a TankTown.
I predict this thread will not last long.
As much as I do love the furball aspect to some maps. Adding a furball town or tank town does defeat the purpose of what game is designed for as well take away action from the base taking strategies of war. That being said, if on some maps the bases were closer together, like festers map, then there would be more action and more fights because the enroute wouldn't be so strenuous to get to a fight.
Like I said though, most of it has to do with your plane choice, fighting style, and understanding the map.
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Put dueling arena score on the main page every month along with the MA scores. :D
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While I admit I haven't had a lot of flying time. I was somewhat encouraged yesterday evening in that while there were bases being taken, there were really nice fights going on while it was happening at or between the bases under attack.
I'm just fine fighting to defend or to attempt to take a defended base. That's the first I'd really seen it happening since I started flying again lately. Prior to that it had been kill the radar, attack the undefended, roll the map time. Boring as can be.
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Adding a furball town or tank town does defeat the purpose of what game is designed for as well take away action from the base taking strategies of war.
Time to clear up this misconception once again.
In yet another thread dealing with this idea back in November 28, 2006 one poster put this up:
Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.
It drew a reply FROM THE GAME'S DESIGNER that everyone should read and understand:
This is a false assumption.
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
HiTech
The bolding is mine, of course.
Ok….got it? Conquering bases/winning the war is not what the game was "designed for". The whole base taking idea is just to promote combat.
So the sacred task of winning the war and gaining a reset for the Chesspiece….isn't sacred. It is, in fact, no "more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up".
I hope this helps some of you at least.
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Good to see you back and on the ball Toad :aok
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Time to clear up this misconception once again.
In yet another thread dealing with this idea back in November 28, 2006 one poster put this up:
It drew a reply FROM THE GAME'S DESIGNER that everyone should read and understand:
The bolding is mine, of course.
Ok….got it? Conquering bases/winning the war is not what the game was "designed for". The whole base taking idea is just to promote combat.
So the sacred task of winning the war and gaining a reset for the Chesspiece….isn't sacred. It is, in fact, no "more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up".
I hope this helps some of you at least.
Than obviously there is no point to the 12 hour rule then. Huh
Oops I said it.
The DA gives all of what he says into consideration that he is looking for. The DA was designed for furballing. If that is all people wanted to do. There would be more people in there...
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Furballs in the DA were never, in my experience, the same as furballs in the MA.
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Yeah, Guppy….I'm still kicking. Trying to play more but real life is making that tough. Need to play as my meager skills are totally atrophied. It's a struggle.
Amazing though isn't it?
Here we are at 8 years plus since HT himself said
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
and people still don't get it.
It's good that some do. Those are the guys that draw me back into it. Guys like you. <S>
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Back when I had a side I was a furballer. Now I believe in friction and frustration. The base takers and furballers need to be in the same arena annoying each other.
Everyone that gets hooked on AH gets hooked on the game as it is. When someone says the game is stale it's the same game they got hooked on. The difference in the play experience is really a difference in the player. That difference is mainly a reduction in difficulty and frustration. Then the game is supposed to change for that one player or that group of players instead of the player finding new challenges in the existing game. Players find the game interesting as long as there are frustrations to overcome.
One of the good things in AH is the rotating maps. If every map had the same furball bases I believe that would promote boredom. It would be like playing the same map without rotation. The changing maps should change gameplay a bit or what's the point?
Furball lake in the DA had a function like a nursury for the MA. That's not all it was but many players got their start there. If war thunder or whatever has supplanted that role it will still produce bored players who are ready to step up to AH. And WT has greater numbers than the DA ever did. Since the DA is pretty dead now I think adding score might liven it up a little but it still serves it's role as a dedicated dueling arena.
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holy crap...Toad...long arse time....
I remember an awesome fight we had many years ago....you I think were in the FM2 me in Hurri2....
good to see you back... :rock
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Warty complaining about having decent fight? What happend the other day when i engaged you and TA57 winging together?, I fought u both and killed TA57 then you just ran, i chased you down and asked you to fight and u kept running. SO running makes it boring for myself and yourself.
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Thx, Ink...kind words.
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Back when I had a side I was a furballer. Now I believe in friction and frustration. The base takers and furballers need to be in the same arena annoying each other.
Everyone that gets hooked on AH gets hooked on the game as it is. When someone says the game is stale it's the same game they got hooked on. The difference in the play experience is really a difference in the player. That difference is mainly a reduction in difficulty and frustration. Then the game is supposed to change for that one player or that group of players instead of the player finding new challenges in the existing game. Players find the game interesting as long as there are frustrations to overcome.
One of the good things in AH is the rotating maps. If every map had the same furball bases I believe that would promote boredom. It would be like playing the same map without rotation. The changing maps should change gameplay a bit or what's the point?
Furball lake in the DA had a function like a nursury for the MA. That's not all it was but many players got their start there. If war thunder or whatever has supplanted that role it will still produce bored players who are ready to step up to AH. And WT has greater numbers than the DA ever did. Since the DA is pretty dead now I think adding score might liven it up a little but it still serves it's role as a dedicated dueling arena.
I agree. IMO, that is why TT or FI are contradictory to the puropse of the fight. It is good when the game has mixed parts like bombing, tanking, and fighting all working on a strategic map. A FI or TT defeats strategical aspects to the game and thus makes it boring.
Smaller games like what H2H use to be are a lot of freaking fun. Small bases and maybe 8-15 people fighting. That is seriously sooo much fun. But people don't see the custom arenas and they are magnetically attracted the the MA because of big #s. The MA is only one aspect to the game. If there were 3-4 servers for FFA and team death match, on a smog 8 Map, with a 20 player cap. It would be sooooooo much fun. The sad thing is that for some reason the community would by pass that and go right to the MA expecting 1v1 fights and fair game play. It's war, it's not gonna happen.
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Dmonslyr (can I buy you some vowels?):
Thanks for the response. All good points. When I was flying a year or two ago, I probably spent 95% of my time in the DA. But I dont really see people in there anymore. Otherwise, well, I'd probably still just hang out there for most things.
I don't disagree that furballing ALL the time becomes stale, but honestly, I could probably do it all day long and not complain too much ;)
Anyway, I didn't know there were dedicated furball fields in some of the maps. I knew about the tank areas, but I thought those were kind of off limits to airplanes, because people just wanted tank v tank fights there.
The thing about numbers magnetism is that it's a real thing. If I could, I would play in axis vs allies, or mid-war arena a lot. But I don't see anyone in there. I went into mid-war the other day, there were 7 people on, but only 3 were in flight, and when I asked where they were flying, one was manning a gun, and nobody else responded. I think it's pretty natural that people will go where the biggest number is. But it's also natural that people will log off if they go in, can't find X activity (furballing, GV, etc.). And that makes the perception of the place a bit worse for the next person, who see less people. Even if you never got the 20-30 furball addicts to move out of the furball area, I think it would still help the overall numbers for the arena, and thus for AH. People can't tell when they log in whether the people are in the furball area, they just see that one big number. In any case, it's pretty clear all this has been hashed out before, so nothing new under the sun...
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Violator you are missing a huge part of the online gaming idea in that there is also a social aspect of things. If every one separates out into different arenas and only interacts with a few people, the larger notion of a community within the game gets lost.
For many of us that part of the age is important. An MA that promotes combat in a variety of ways is the best way to build that community and the game itself.
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It is good when the game has mixed parts like bombing, tanking, and fighting all working on a strategic map. A FI or TT defeats strategical aspects to the game and thus makes it boring.
What you posted there is opinion, more specifically your opinion.
It is one I do not happen to share but being the open minded guy I am, I totally accept that you a free to have your own opinion.
I'd just like to point out that the designer of the game doesn't feel that all that strateegery doesn't have precedence over just going out and mixing it up.
Well...what the heck....one more time:
HITECH:
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
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I agree. IMO, that is why TT or FI are contradictory to the puropse of the fight. It is good when the game has mixed parts like bombing, tanking, and fighting all working on a strategic map. A FI or TT defeats strategical aspects to the game and thus makes it boring.
Smaller games like what H2H use to be are a lot of freaking fun. Small bases and maybe 8-15 people fighting. That is seriously sooo much fun. But people don't see the custom arenas and they are magnetically attracted the the MA because of big #s. The MA is only one aspect to the game. If there were 3-4 servers for FFA and team death match, on a smog 8 Map, with a 20 player cap. It would be sooooooo much fun. The sad thing is that for some reason the community would by pass that and go right to the MA expecting 1v1 fights and fair game play. It's war, it's not gonna happen.
I think you're missing a point. Never having TT or FT would be as boring as always having them.
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Sadly, the community can't be trusted with having a dedicated furball area on a MA map. The griefing by one segment of the community towards another segment will start immediately, it happened in the past and it will happen again.
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I think you're missing a point. Never having TT or FT would be as boring as always having them.
Not necessarily... If the bases were closer together you'd have all the fights and furballing you can imagine. Lack of skill in another short coming....
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What you posted there is opinion, more specifically your opinion.
It is one I do not happen to share but being the open minded guy I am, I totally accept that you a free to have your own opinion.
I'd just like to point out that the designer of the game doesn't feel that all that strateegery doesn't have precedence over just going out and mixing it up.
Well...what the heck....one more time:
Yeah. Opinion of 8-9 years game play h2h and overall experience. Going to a furball with 20 people on a custom map for one night is glorious fun. If you don't believe me, try it.
You guys don't understand that the MA is a segment war. There are other places to bring a group of people to fight furball and tank but you don't find a sense of meaning to it. Hopefully the numbers will pick up again to find people who are encouraged for that type of fight.
A furball area is important, but it should be strategized to make an impact to the overall war aspect to the game. IMO, bases that are closer together would make a much more furballistic atmosphere. Check out the AvA. It has this action. Warty that place is awesome. I'd love to go in there, but like you said normally it is blank and the majority won't give it a shot.
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Not necessarily... If the bases were closer together you'd have all the fights and furballing you can imagine. Lack of skill in another short coming....
You miss my point about human nature.
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If you acknowledge this statement from Hitech, then you have acknowledge that how you play the game is in no way superior to how anyone else plays the game. Including avoiding combat while breaking other countries toys. Or face shooting and back stabbing, then running away at 400 plus mph.
In the face of Hitech's purpose for his game, you watch human nature stick it's fingers in it's collective ears. Then exert itself by demanding some other truer framework than Hitech's exists inside of which they are the supermen their gamey efforts have proven them to lord over lesser mortals. And Hitech is demoted from the creator of this universe to it's janitor by human nature.
Fun cannot be the sole reason Hitech provided this stage upon which they have spent years showing everyone else how superior they are. What is the point of fun if it doesn't mean being "special"? Fun doesn't end with you acknowledged as king of some hill. Just a peck on the cheek from your sister for being a good person. Fun is ambiguous at best, open ended at worst. Fun was the description for why young men were knocking out defenseless 80 year olds on public street a few years back.
Human nature then fills the janitor's void by anointing you Lords of Flys. Not even Hitech can get the cork back in that Genie bottle. Just manage it from time to time with a big stick.
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Quote
HITECH:
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
_____________________________ _____________________________ _________________
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Yeah. Opinion of 8-9 years game play
So you weren't here when the only map that had both a dedicated FT and TT on it was in the rotation?
Like I said though, you are entitled to your opinion but that's all it is.
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So you weren't here when the only map that had both a dedicated FT and TT on it was in the rotation?
Like I said though, you are entitled to your opinion but that's all it is.
I was here during H2H and the original DA. My opinion in AH has recognition. But the way people fly is the other, that which I cannot control. Furball island or not, it still won't help them become more skilled, y'all will still get ganged and horded so what is the difference anyway!
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Your opinion has recognition? What exactly does that mean?
As Guppy said upthread, you are missing the point. Bringing everyone into one MA improves the community. Players participate in the team and arena chatter. Friends hang out with friends even if one is at FT and the other is rolling undefended basis in the finest win the war tradition.
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Your opinion has recognition? What exactly does that mean?
As Guppy said upthread, you are missing the point. Bringing everyone into one MA improves the community. Players participate in the team and arena chatter. Friends hang out with friends even if one is at FT and the other is rolling undefended basis in the finest win the war tradition.
When you can become as good as I am in multiple planes then you will understand my "opinion" about furballing and maps.
And in regards to the debate here, I understand that your argument implies that you would rather hang out with your bros in the larger maps with small fights than attempt to bring many of them into an arena that would suit all of your playing styles immensley. Adding a furball island, like FLS said, does not change any aspect to the game nor does it involve strategy to the game. Non the less, one side seizes all and hoards for 30 min while the other teams moans and complains.
The whole problem here is that cheif cannot find "fights" and he thinks having a furball island would fix that. But the underlying problem is that the fights would turn out the same way based on skill and competition. Unfortunately, off hours has problems with the size of the map to player size, finding fights becomes difficult. I think with shorter base distances fights would be more quickly engagable thus attracting the furballers. Reading the Map and becoming better at the game also make a huge difference on your killing success.
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I shouldn't force someone to furball just like they shouldn't force me to win the war. The only way to really accomplish that without segregating the community into multiple little impersonal arenas is with maps like Donut. The DA lake failed because it allowed a small segment to take control and impose their own skewed standards of gameplay. It wasn't even furballing. Because of the name in lights factor, etc. it was just more hording and vultching. It was a cesspool when it was active, and now it's dead. H2H only had a handful, less than half a dozen rooms that were both consistently operating, and offering decent gameplay. most were just test arenas for hacks and unlimited arena setting fliers. Main arena numbers are down hard. This cant be denied. Further splintering the community up will not help that.
12hour rule is garbage too, and contributes to this. But I won't get into that.
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When you can become as good as I am in multiple planes then you will understand my "opinion" about furballing and maps.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but in game skill has very little relevance here. Especially when you're talking to someone who's been around the community for so long. being exposed to and observing the highs, lows, and trends of this (and I assume other) gaming communities. To suggest he can't find a fight because he sucks is kinda... :headscratch: To suggest that someone needs to have skill to simply find a fight in a COMBAT Sim is kinda :headscratch: too. You'd think fights would be prevalent and easy to find, it being a COMBAT sim and all.
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As much as I agree with you that finding a good fight is a problem, this thread will not end well and the problem really is more player based than map based.
I've dabbled in tanks lately and it's funny how if you spawn at an enemy field in one literally a small horde will up to kill you. Yet if you fly to an enemy field it's usually crickets and no one will up to fight you. Pretty depressing that most would rather play whack a mole on tonka toys than engage in air combat. Of course, most of the guys who play this way (and have been here for years, and who tend to play for rank) couldn't get a kill against another airplane unless the other guy is afk watching Netflix going 110mph in a Zeke with his gears down.
This is so true. I've been staying on my boat while getting it ready to take back to AK and I don't have my flight gear so I've been gv'ing. Spawn campers are just as bad as hordling vultchers. I will sit there and respawn over and over just to get shots off and kill them. And then they just drive to the EXACT same spot and attempt to do it again. :rofl
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Donut is still the only map I've ever actually liked.
yep, sad to see the best maps removed or in MA just for hours and this huge boring maps with more bases than players, impossible to reset, stuck for 7 days;
imo the whole map reset system is wrong favoring large maps to dominate the MA;
Donut map was designed by Dantoo; the problem was at the time the map reset system was different without uncapturable bases not by 20% field captured from both teams like today and the 3 bases in furball town were vulched capped and captured often ; could be fixed easy on Donut making the 3 bases in the middle uncapturable;
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When you can become as good as I am in multiple planes then you will understand my "opinion" about furballing and maps.
Oh, I understand your opinion. I've been hearing the same old stuff forever. You may currently be far better than I am in multiple planes. Probably so. I was pretty decent in my time however. I've been here since Beta and watched the gameplay develop. WB and AW before that too, of course.
How long you been here again?
As I've said, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But that's all it is.
You never even saw or played the best map we ever had: Donut. So, forgive me if I pass on your interpretation for what would be the best way to get the most players interested in playing on one map.
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This is so true. I've been staying on my boat while getting it ready to take back to AK and I don't have my flight gear so I've been gv'ing. Spawn campers are just as bad as hordling vultchers. I will sit there and respawn over and over just to get shots off and kill them. And then they just drive to the EXACT same spot and attempt to do it again. :rofl
just like you did in TT LOL :neener:
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SWDrgn was the worst. He would go to the exact same spot over and over. And he's sitting right out in the open, relying on the other spawn campers to kill the spawner before they kill him. haha
I didn't know you were from Albany. Right on. I grew up in Corvallis and am on my boat just out of Astoria right now. A lot of other Oregonians fly.
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SWDrgn was the worst. He would go to the exact same spot over and over. And he's sitting right out in the open, relying on the other spawn campers to kill the spawner before they kill him. haha
I didn't know you were from Albany. Right on. I grew up in Corvallis and am on my boat just out of Astoria right now. A lot of other Oregonians fly.
yup allot of us on AH.Hey after i deliver Sacramento in morning I'm heading to Tacoma one of these days we can share a bottle of scotch and have a few laughs :rock
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Oh, I understand your opinion. I've been hearing the same old stuff forever. You may currently be far better than I am in multiple planes. Probably so. I was pretty decent in my time however. I've been here since Beta and watched the gameplay develop. WB and AW before that too, of course.
How long you been here again?
As I've said, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But that's all it is.
You never even saw or played the best map we ever had: Donut. So, forgive me if I pass on your interpretation for what would be the best way to get the most players interested in playing on one map.
It ain't worth it Toad. He is just part of the cycle of filling the vacuum left by the last Lords of the Flys who demoted Hitech to janitor. And want the rest of us to worship their definition of fun as the only true way to play this game. After all he does have one of those KotH toilet tissue doylies hanging from his signature. You were supposed to notice that and fall to your face in abject terror of his somethingness. Didn't he let us know how uber he was by a mention of how many planes he is a master of?
And there for is the root of not accepting this is Hitech's universe because of his vague definition of fun. Resulting in demoting Hitech to janitor and forcing the community to worship the one true definition of fun. Or at least conversations in these forums that sound like there is only one true way to have fun. Because one guy has some toilet tissue hanging off his signature while a few others think it actually means anything.
All of the fields on any map in the MA are just props to promote combat of different scales and variety. Winning the war is just another prop to promote combat or fun. There are no right ways or wrong ways to play in the MA. The Lords of the Flys who try to stuff how we play the game into narrow ridged definitions. Ultimately have some toilet tissue they want you to worship. So they can have a definition of I am a better man than you are using this game as that vehicle.
Hitech will not define fun as a crucible so one idiot can prove he is a better idiot than another idiot. Enter the Lords of the Flys or human nature to fill that void.
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See Rule #4
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When you get upset because people don't share your opinion what are you showing us?
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Oy. A shame it came to this, I liked the topic.
I'd love to have a furball island AND have the bases closer together all across the map. Possibly someone knows HTC's rationale for insisting that MA map bases be so separated, but I've never grasped it. AvA bases are closer together, have always been closer together, and it seemed to work just fine. And you don't have to spend half your online time just getting to the fight.
- oldman
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When you get upset because people don't share your opinion what are you showing us?
Read Bustr's former response and you'll see why I wrote this the way I did.
Oldman, what a great idea!! Too bad the people here refuse to try it because they are afraid of the lack of "sociability" they will endure by trying something different. Ohwell...
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So it's a race to the bottom and you want to win? You still have time to edit.
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So it's a race to the bottom and you want to win? You still have time to edit.
Grammar isn't my strong suit and typing on my phone sucks. But, I'll stick to my guns about the content I've written. I've only tried to make mere examples of what will happen and what players can do to solve the problems for themselves, instead of blaming it on the game. I could complain how COD spawns me in front of bad guys all day long, but that means I'm just bad at SA and not good enough at the game yet to be successful against opponents when that happens.
If you are not successful in the large furballs going on normally on the map, what makes you think a furball island is gonna be any easier. In fact it will only be more difficult to get kills and land victories.
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I wasn't referring to grammar or spelling. Misspelling intelligence is always funny but rudeness doesn't help your argument, it makes you look foolish.
I haven't seen any explanations from you on how furball fields would hurt anything you want to do. I think it's best if the maps don't all have them but that's just my opinion. It doesn't bother me if other people disagree with that.
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I wasn't referring to grammar or spelling. Misspelling intelligence is always funny but rudeness doesn't help your argument, it makes you look foolish.
I haven't seen any explanations from you on how furball fields would hurt anything you want to do. I think it's best if the maps don't all have them but that's just my opinion. It doesn't bother me if other people disagree with that.
Well when people want to shame me with idiotic arguments and defame a rather difficult accomishment that I have achieved in AH, or tell me my opinion doesn't mean anything when I've put the time and effort to become better at the game over a 10 year span from 2005- 2014, then they deserve to be ridiculed for it.
BTW, yes that is why I became an accountant, spelling and grammar have never been a strong part for me, but argument and logic is a different type of understanding, especially when I have the knowledge, perception, and judgement about the situation OP is describing based on skill and overall gameplay experience.
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I would suggest you politely mock their error rather than trading insults like schoolboys.
I still don't see how furball fields would hurt anything you want to do.
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I would suggest you politely mock their error rather than trading insults like schoolboys.
I still don't see how furball fields would hurt anything you want to do.
Politely mocking them wasn't the intent since they haven't been polite to me from the start.
I hope they all plot against me and come try to shoot me down so I can have more action and prove to them that a furball island doesn't really matter.
The whole premise to my arguement is not that furball islands are a bad thing. If it were to happen, I'd fight there all the time and I'm sure players wouldn't be having a good time because I'd shoot down most of them. They'd get picked constantly, they'd lose advantage and die just as much as they are now, the fights would be a lot more tough to be successful in because 95% of the players would use the fastest planes and BnZ all day long. If you don't have the skills, a furball island will be way more difficult for you to be successful in. Take the furball islands we have now. They are tough. You lose alt, and suddenly here comes a 190D with his Ki84 friend to catch and out turn you.. It can happen in any furball, but you risk this happening over and over again in a furball town.
What I am implying here is that you don't necessarily need to have a furball island inorder to make fights and furballs better, you need closer bases and a higher skill set. With closer bases you can scoot to a base more quickly, defending may or may not be more fun, you can defend from another base while quickly getting to the base being attacked, distances to fights would make it more timely for the people fighting, and since the bases are closer more fights and furballs would be had based on time it takes to find some one to engage. It would also incorporate to the war aspect of the game. You have bases that your team can work on caputring, while being in a large furball, which seems to be the underlying problem to the furballers here. They just want to furball. That is great, that is what I like to do. But the furballs in this situation are a lot more fun outside of a furball island. If all you want are furballs, putting bases closer together would create that as well as speed up fights, and encouraging the war aspect to the game. Instead having 1/3 of the people over at FI and then the maps will never end.
I even mentioned having 3 bases on all teams close to each other for a furball triangle, that would benefit the war effort and benefit the furballers, but no one read that part because they are too busy trying to figure out how to defame my understanding by using faulty logic and inane whiplashes toward my success in AH.
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The downside you mention is taking people away from the effort to win the war but if players from all 3 sides furball it does it make a difference if it's in the MA or DA?
It seemed to me that most of the discussion was polite. If you think bustr was wrong to be rude then logically your rudeness would also be wrong. You referred to retards and noobs, you weren't just responding to one person's rudeness, you were insulting people who politely disagreed with you. You actually started that with your lack of skill comment. Everyone else, except you and bustr, was having a polite discussion of different opinions.
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The downside you mention is taking people away from the effort to win the war but if players from all 3 sides furball it does it make a difference if it's in the MA or DA?
It seemed to me that most of the discussion was polite. If you think bustr was wrong to be rude then logically your rudeness would also be wrong. You referred to retards and noobs, you weren't just responding to one person's rudeness, you were insulting people who politely disagreed with you. You actually started that with your lack of skill comment. Everyone else, except you and bustr, was having a polite discussion of different opinions.
If all sides were furballing in an area that could impact the war by capuring or dominating one or both teams, then it would send those players to other parts of the map to attempt to defend or fight somewhere else, which could even create another furball on the other side of the map. Conglomerating a group to a specific part of the map for all out furballing, defeats the aspect to the point of what the MA is intended for, war. Going go the DA would emliminate this as well, but you would be using the arena for what it was intended on doing. In all forms of this problem you have players that want to all out furball, which makes it difficult for the war part of the game. The decision is up to the players. You have what they call an opportunity cost. At least if a furball was part of the base taking strategy, the whole MA and war aspect would still stand even if the majority were furballing in one area.
More people would go the DA or the AvA to find these types of fights but they are afraid they would lose the social aspect to the game. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough players to be in each arena to attract a fight. Even though, these places are designed better for the type of fighting they are looking for. It is a paradox because everyone wants to have these fights, but no one will give it shot, so the #s stay low and then no one wants to go in there. You would see the DA filled every night if this is truly the way people wanted to fight. The MA simply gives them a "meaning" to be apart of the game and community, thus they choose to fly in an MA area and can't figure out where the furball is, then complian about it, usually because of lack of skill. It is not so much an insult as it is the truth.
I'm sorry if lack of skills makes it hard for you to be successful, I was the same way when I first started, like I said it took years of dying to be where I am at now. I still get ganged and picked and only take it about 75% serious. It is not that there needs to be a furball island to fix everyone's problems, it is that they need some guidance to become more successful in furballs that are on the map. That is indeed the main issue here.
I brought up my skills and achivements because Toad thought my opinion didn't matter, which erked me, and then bustr comes on preaching BS how my achiements in the game don't matter, even though it takes a considerate amount experience to obtain that achievement. My acviements and skill level do accurately proclaim that my opinion does have valence to the context of this problem and arguement.
If they have a problem with that they can come hunt me in the MA and learn how to die respectfully. Like I said, the furball island won't stop that....
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What do you know about my skills? It seems you are trying to insult me. Good luck with that. :D
Toad's point about your opinion was that it doesn't trump everyone else's opinion. That's what you can't accept.
Your justification for rudeness was that bustr started it but actually you got that ball rolling. Now you don't want to talk about it.
You got upset because other people don't share your opinion of yourself. That's not likely to change.
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What do you know about my skills? It seems you are trying to insult me. Good luck with that. :D
Toad's point about your opinion was that it doesn't trump everyone else's opinion. That's what you can't accept.
Your justification for rudeness was that bustr started it but actually you got that ball rolling. Now you don't want to talk about it.
You got upset because other people don't share your opinion of yourself. That's not likely to change.
No, I got upset because they didn't understand my argument and thus proclaimed that my opinion doesn't matter, then retorting that I didnt understand theirs, which was soley justified that they won't go to another arena because of social communication, which has some ambiguety towards the main point of the OP in regards to what the MA and DA were built for.
I've never even seen you fly in the MA or on this game before FLS, to be quite honest, while I think you are probably a good pilot, and do make some good general assessments for training purposes, your credibility was not being stomped on by me. I actually agreed with you on the first post you made. But somehow " I wasn't understanding your point".
I know that my opinion is only a statement but I believe it does have prevelance to the discussion. I pointed out many other ways to find furballs in other parts of the game as well as understanding the map to player base #s.
I personally think this is what makes the MA hard for some players. I started off in H2H which helped me understand the game on a smaller scale. Fighting on smaller maps with a closer base structure is very exciting and fast paced, even with only 10-20 players. But many won't give it a shot because they are too niave. So instead of learning and trying out different parts of the game that would benefit their style of fighting, they complain because it is hard. Then once they get in a furball they lack skills to become successful which on its own defeats the fact in a furball island or not, furballing is not the issue, but skill set and plane choice are.
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I started in AH in tour 23. I've been a trainer for 4 years now and lately I spend most of my AH time helping people. I do expect to get back into the MA but after 20 years in different flight sims I don't feel like I have to prove anything. You can see me fly by watching the unedited videos with unedited music on my utube link.
I still think you missed my point about human nature, friction, and frustration, but I often have my own perspective on issues that other people may not see or share.
People can understand your point without agreeing with it. Maybe you understand that but it's not obvious from this thread.
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See Rule #4
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Someone's ego is getting a little big for their britches.
After the month I had last month, yes my ego is pretty big :devil I have a full list of accomplishments from last month alone, not even including some of my other best months in AH.
But this ego here will back up the statements in the virtual flight arenas of AH. I have no problem proving that.
I simply played devils advocate about furball towns in the MA maps. In that they are pointless to the structure of the MA. No one other than the OP, who is still new to the game, has given any valid reasons as to how a furball town would benefit them or other players. Like I said, I would even be apart of the furball town most of the time, but it also wouldn't be very good for many players because they would get shot down just as quickly, which doesn't make it anymore exciting than it is now for them, in which case practice, skill level, and plane choice have to do with your performance regardless of how the arena is planned out - to an extent.
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Toad's point about your opinion was that it doesn't trump everyone else's opinion. That's what you can't accept.
This. Exactly this.
Additionally, Hitech pointed out that winning the war isn't any more special than just furballing. The various aspects of the game exist solely to produce fun. No one aspect is any more valid than any other.
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This. Exactly this.
Additionally, Hitech pointed out that winning the war isn't any more special than just furballing. The various aspects of the game exist solely to produce fun. No one aspect is any more valid than any other.
Typical response from someone who doesn't understand the dynamic of furballing in AH, and then defames a credible opinion who has knowledge, skill, and experience whose sole enjoyment is furballing in AH. And then doesn't provide any logical based information to how a furball island would benefit the player base to AH.
It's like taking the opinion of a stock holder compared to the opinion of a person who actually works for the company. The stock holder has all this outside information about the perception of the company. But really in truly, has no idea what is going on. Where as the insider who works there and is actually involved with the success of the company knows exactly what is going to happen. Whose opinion would you believe then?
Like I said, I am simply challenging this idea based off experience and understanding to how furballs are created and why there is an issue with fight density within AH. I believe that my "opinion" on this specific topic trumps yours.
And that is the bottom line because Stone Cold Steve Austin says so.
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To use your example, would you consider Hitech, whose opinion Toad quotes, a company insider?
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To use your example, would you consider Hitech, whose opinion Toad quotes, a company insider?
The quote even contradicts Hitechs own opinion (no offense) to only one part of the issue, by not being able to change sides every 12 hours. What is the point of that other than to keep teams situated on a war based strategy. Or you are taking his words out of context, it is probably not even about FI.
Fun is the main option but the game dynamic strategy is the other option.
Explain to me what would happen when team A completely dominates team B and C in the furball island. All those other players are going to be sitting in the tower complaining about hoards and pickers, while also not going to another field to benefit any part of the strategize war effort because there will be no fights there either. They will sit in the tower and still be bored while not even unknowingly help the team by upping from another base and killing a bomber raid, for example.
Y'all only see the small light to the issue, Not the actual problem that persist to the reason why fights have been so much smaller. IE, the length of the base distance. I don't really understand why many of you wouldn't agree with me besides Oldman. Your furballs would be extravagant and you would be apart of the MA strategy as a whole thereby creating a fun competitive atmosphere for all styles of fighting.
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Typical response from someone who doesn't understand the dynamic of furballing in AH, and then defames a credible opinion who has knowledge, skill, and experience whose sole enjoyment is furballing in AH. And then doesn't provide any logical based information to how a furball island would benefit the player base to AH.
You make it sound like you're the only one that understands the "dynamics of furballing", which I find kind of funny since some of the people you're arguing have been playing AH (and other combat flight sims) a heck of a lot longer than you have. Hell, I've been playing these games probably since before you were born and TOAD being the old fart he is, probably has been playing longer than I have. There is nothing you can teach us about the "dynamics of furballing" that we already don't know, Hell, we've probably forgotten more than you'll know.
ack-ack
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I'm guessing we don't share your vision because our perspective is different. I believe Toad quoted Hitech appropriately.
I see no benefit in making up hypothetical scenarios where imaginary players validate our theories. Your opinion is clear, others disagree.
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A singular Lord of the Flys......
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I'm guessing we don't share your vision because our perspective is different. I believe Toad quoted Hitech appropriately.
I see no benefit in making up hypothetical scenarios where imaginary players validate our theories. Your opinion is clear, others disagree.
You can disagree with my opinion all you want buy stating "I disagree" but providing no indication to an ideal that you think is better does not discredit my opinion, but more so makes you look silly.
At what point do you disagree, and why? If you think a furball Island would benefit the game.. Please explain, rather than discrediting my opinion with ancedotal evidence that may or may not even be part of the same type of conversation.
And for the record, percieving hypothetical situations is what planning is all about. I practically know this situation will happen time and time again as I have seen it happen time and time again...
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furball island on every map wont make a bit of difference...
I have wanted the same exact thing for years...I love the 3 way fight...always thought there should be an area with that on every map...
but after 10 years of playing pretty much in fighter mode only....
the majority do not care about the fight....all they want is to roll bases undefended....win a war that is the same exact thing over and over...
the ones that say dog fighting is the same thing over and over just don't understand the dogfight itself....
every single fight is different...you will never be in the same fight twice...you will never be able to make that one move capable of killing everyone all the time...unlike dropping bombs...
I do think it would hurt the game now..the war winners hate the fact that some people just do not care about the war....
it would cause even more separation of the 2 types of players.
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You can disagree with my opinion all you want buy stating "I disagree" but providing no indication to an ideal that you think is better does not discredit my opinion, but more so makes you look silly.
At what point do you disagree, and why? If you think a furball Island would benefit the game.. Please explain, rather than discrediting my opinion with ancedotal evidence that may or may not even be part of the same type of conversation.
And for the record, percieving hypothetical situations is what planning is all about. I practically know this situation will happen time and time again as I have seen it happen time and time again...
Where did I discredit your opinion? You went off the rails when you first thought Toad was attacking you. People are expressing opinions that are different than yours. Accept the fact that people often disagree. It's not a contest. Nobody is going to change their minds because you keep arguing that you're right and everybody else is wrong. If you think your position is obviously correct then time will tell and save you the trouble.
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....win a war that is the same exact thing over and over...
the ones that say dog fighting is the same thing over and over just don't understand the dogfight itself....
Any maybe the ones saying fighting the war is exact the same thing over and over aren't understanding that thing either? ;)
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no
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Any maybe the ones saying fighting the war is exact the same thing over and over aren't understanding that thing either? ;)
well seeings how building's...don't move and try to get out of the way of your bombs....
the moment they do....they will be correct.... ;)
just because one can have an opinion...does not make it correct....
but I would be more then willing to read how bombing and taking towns and winning the war is different each map....
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This is what happens when Hitech leaves a power vacuum by not defining combat or fun. Lords of the Flys emerge to define it, defend it, and impose it on the rest, who will naturally resist. Then again, it keeps the light bill paid by relying on human nature.
Once the effort is made to define and defend. It is the only reality that Lords of the Flys will accept as the definition of what this game "is". It does add to the flavor of the offering. Still, because they have now projected "themselves" as that reality upon the community, any dissent is perceived as a very personal real world affront to themselves.
You cannot win with Dmon and several others I suspect over this issue. I will venture our game is not the only venue they walk around in with this exposed nerve for the world to bump into, whether the world wants to or not.
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This is what happens when Hitech leaves a power vacuum by not defining combat or fun. Lords of the Flys emerge to define it, defend it, and impose it on the rest, who will naturally resist. Then again, it keeps the light bill paid by relying on human nature.
Once the effort is made to define and defend. It is the only reality that Lords of the Flys will accept as the definition of what this game "is". It does add to the flavor of the offering. Still, because they have now projected "themselves" as that reality upon the community, any dissent is perceived as a very personal real world affront to themselves.
You cannot win with Dmon and several others I suspect over this issue. I will venture our game is not the only venue they walk around in with this exposed nerve for the world to bump into, whether the world wants to or not.
some of the stuff you post..is just....way out there man....I cant imagine what it is to have that brain of yours....
glad I am a simple man. :aok
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well seeings how building's...don't move and try to get out of the way of your bombs....
the moment they do....they will be correct.... ;)
just because one can have an opinion...does not make it correct....
but I would be more then willing to read how bombing and taking towns and winning the war is different each map....
Reducing everything outside of a 1v1 dogfight or 'pure' furballs to "bombing of buildings" is cheap and largely incorrect. For the record, I have hundreds of kills (and deaths!) in bombers just because I tried to bomb .... buildings. ;)
In many instances this involves combat on some kind. This meta game provides a plethora of battle situations that are more varied than a 'pure furball' because of all the factors, planes, vehicles and game mechanisms involved.
Speaking personally, this is what kept me here after the intial period. Furballing was fun in the beginning, but I would have been bored to death after a year (at most). Which I actually was.
The 'war' meta game did provide me with more variety in combat and tactics on top of the doghfighing core this game has. I would never ever have lasted for 10 years if AH was only that and no war. And I don't even really play to 'win' that one.
It's fine if you have found some niche, (I had one too before it was mostly taken away), but it smacks of hubris to look down on everyone not having "seen the truth" and playing something differently.
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Another thing... threads like this try to keep up the myth that AH players are either furballer or toolshedding "war gamers".
While indeed there are much less furballers than 'war gamers' in AH, many, if not most players are neither. Most are probably playing the war game to some extent, but do much about everything when it's fun for them at any given moment and don't care much about the ideological battles of the AH forum. They switch forth and back between different modes of playing depending on mood, mapo situation, presence of squaddies and time at hand.
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The quote even contradicts Hitechs own opinion (no offense) to only one part of the issue, by not being able to change sides every 12 hours. What is the point of that other than to keep teams situated on a war based strategy. Or you are taking his words out of context, it is probably not even about FI.
Fun is the main option but the game dynamic strategy is the other option.
Explain to me what would happen when team A completely dominates team B and C in the furball island. All those other players are going to be sitting in the tower complaining about hoards and pickers, while also not going to another field to benefit any part of the strategize war effort because there will be no fights there either. They will sit in the tower and still be bored while not even unknowingly help the team by upping from another base and killing a bomber raid, for example.
Y'all only see the small light to the issue, Not the actual problem that persist to the reason why fights have been so much smaller. IE, the length of the base distance. I don't really understand why many of you wouldn't agree with me besides Oldman. Your furballs would be extravagant and you would be apart of the MA strategy as a whole thereby creating a fun competitive atmosphere for all styles of fighting.
I don't agree with this, nor do I agree with the idea of "furball island" will help. The issue we face is game play differeances.
Years ago we played and each of the 2 or 3 maps we had were furball maps. That is pretty much what we all did. It is the reason we joined the game whether we started here or came in from Air Warriors, or Warbids. We were all pretending to be WWII fighter pilots and we were out to save the country! For years it was like this and all was good.
Then HTC added bombers and towns and strats and GVs and all these other goodies so we could fight many other ways, and we did! And all was good. Then came the "win the war". No instead of just squads going head to head they was a goal added on. Never mind just capturing the base, WIN THE WAR! Many people grasped at this new activity and the split between the furballers and the land grabbers had begun. And so the first major shift in game play had begun.
Soon as more people joined to play most found it easier to run with the land grabbers as every one knows to be above average in a fighter takes time and practice. This is about the time the donut map was removed. Huge squads like the BOPS and the LCA were rolling base after base with all their little minions ( there weren't all yellow back then, some actual fought :devil ) There were fights, but they were getting to be less and less furbals as the captures moved on and a furball takes a certain amount of players and time to really get rolling and self sustaining. Before long players were looking for quicker ways to capture bases. They found that bringing a bunch of bombs on fighters was much faster, faster yet was not even bothering to climb! And another shift in game play had begun..... Massive never ending NOEs to bring forth the "Wack a Mole" style of play.
HTC stepped in, ( I always though one of the higher up staff jumped on a have a few fun fights one weekend and all they could do was follow the wack a mole routine, and they were not happy) Instant change, dar was smacked down into the weeds and expanded. You couldn't even lift from your base with out setting off the flashing on the next base over! LOL!!! No more NOEs! Calmer heads prevailed and the radar was adjusted to what we have now. But the shift in game play continued toward less fighting. After all fighting your way through defenders takes time and then it takes too long to win the war.
So todays players avoid fighting as much as they can. NOE, hordes, bomb and bail, lawndart, and if defenders show up, call it quits on that run and move to the other front to see if you can grab one there before someone ups. Moving bases closer won't change the way players play the game. Having a furball island might be fun for some of us old timers, but it becomes very predictable. Certain players will circle above to pick, others will blow through with big cannons to blast anything that crosses their path until they get picked or run home to land those 2-3-4 kills.
I hope eventually that game play turns back toward fighting. I don't care if people like to GV, bomb, take bases, win the war. I'd just like to see them fight for it is all.
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Where did I discredit your opinion? You went off the rails when you first thought Toad was attacking you. People are expressing opinions that are different than yours. Accept the fact that people often disagree. It's not a contest. Nobody is going to change their minds because you keep arguing that you're right and everybody else is wrong. If you think your position is obviously correct then time will tell and save you the trouble.
My bad, I meant to use " you" in general terms not specifically you, FLS. I'm simply outlinning the reasons why I think it is a bad idea. I've given more than enough educated reasonings as to why and have brought in better solutions to the problem that would make everyone happy. The only thing they can say is "I disagree" and then say something stupid about me. That is not how a discussion works. If they say "I disagree" then discredit my opinion, I'd personally like to know why, if you don't. If they don't say why, then I'll give them the all reason why they should consider my opinion, Ie achievements, skill, and game understanding in order for them to comprehend why I think that way.
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Reducing everything outside of a 1v1 dogfight or 'pure' furballs to "bombing of buildings" is cheap and largely incorrect. For the record, I have hundreds of kills (and deaths!) in bombers just because I tried to bomb .... buildings. ;)
In many instances this involves combat on some kind. This meta game provides a plethora of battle situations that are more varied than a 'pure furball' because of all the factors, planes, vehicles and game mechanisms involved.
Speaking personally, this is what kept me here after the intial period. Furballing was fun in the beginning, but I would have been bored to death after a year (at most). Which I actually was.
The 'war' meta game did provide me with more variety in combat and tactics on top of the doghfighing core this game has. I would never ever have lasted for 10 years if AH was only that and no war. And I don't even really play to 'win' that one.
It's fine if you have found some niche, (I had one too before it was mostly taken away), but it smacks of hubris to look down on everyone not having "seen the truth" and playing something differently.
Absolutely the same for me. I am a Fur-taker. :aok :D
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Another thing... threads like this try to keep up the myth that AH players are either furballer or toolshedding "war gamers".
While indeed there are much less furballers than 'war gamers' in AH, many, if not most players are neither. Most are probably playing the war game to some extent, but do much about everything when it's fun for them at any given moment and don't care much about the ideological battles of the AH forum. They switch forth and back between different modes of playing depending on mood, mapo situation, presence of squaddies and time at hand.
this I completely disagree with.... except the start of second line.. :D
you say what I say then say something totally different.
yes there are those that do both...the majority are war winners....there is no question.
Reducing everything outside of a 1v1 dogfight or 'pure' furballs to "bombing of buildings" is cheap and largely incorrect. For the record, I have hundreds of kills (and deaths!) in bombers just because I tried to bomb .... buildings. ;)
In many instances this involves combat on some kind. This meta game provides a plethora of battle situations that are more varied than a 'pure furball' because of all the factors, planes, vehicles and game mechanisms involved.
Speaking personally, this is what kept me here after the intial period. Furballing was fun in the beginning, but I would have been bored to death after a year (at most). Which I actually was.
The 'war' meta game did provide me with more variety in combat and tactics on top of the doghfighing core this game has. I would never ever have lasted for 10 years if AH was only that and no war. And I don't even really play to 'win' that one.
It's fine if you have found some niche, (I had one too before it was mostly taken away), but it smacks of hubris to look down on everyone not having "seen the truth" and playing something differently.
I disagree once again...
it is not "largely incorrect".... dropping bombs is exactly what it takes to "win the war" :headscratch:
maybe there is another thing that you need to do besides the GVing...attacking towns...
but once again it all comes down to dropping bombs/throwing rounds and destroying STATIONARY targets...and as far as GVing goes...spawn camping at its finest. :rolleyes:
fighting off fighters...is the only thing that is or may be different, that can not be comparable to fighting enemy bandits while in fighters.
and I will never tell someone how to play this game except they should find their fun.
I do call people on their bullcrap though and some just cant handle that.
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Sadly like comedy, I don't have to make any of this stuff up.
This post and responses read like the script for Japanese animation series where everyone you run into is a master of something they seem to find every excuse possible to loudly announce. Dangling big toe attack, rising pinky finger defense, or belching rear wind ultimate fist blast. All competing as the ultimate school of killing gerbils in Mongolia, or some nonsense like that.
But, they all defend theirs to the death against all perceived attempts to insult their gerbil hood's ultimate answer of the universe at the last episode of the series. Or something like that. Then along comes season two where a new crop of gerbil killers fight over the same thing wearing different pajamas and an uglier bad guy.
For good measure at least one of the first season's now old guys is still defending the gerbil fu secret of the universe along side of the new hot item young killer of Mongolian gerbils.
Get the point of why not defining combat or fun is keeping the light bill paid?
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it is not "largely incorrect".... dropping bombs is exactly what it takes to "win the war" :headscratch:
maybe there is another thing that you need to do besides the GVing...attacking towns...
but once again it all comes down to dropping bombs/throwing rounds and destroying STATIONARY targets...and as far as GVing goes...spawn camping at its finest. :rolleyes:
fighting off fighters...is the only thing that is or may be different, that can not be comparable to fighting enemy bandits while in fighters.
Bombers attack towns.
Fighters attack bombers.
Escorts (or fighter on a sweep) attack those in return.
And so on.
In the end, you have buffs vs fighters, fighters vs fighter, planes vs gv, gv vs gv and so on. This is called variety. And tactics are necessary as well as a more rounded skillset.
All the things that i need to do in a furball are there, and then some on top. I end up being in many more differing tactical situations (just think of the different altitudes alone), so much more to know and to keep in mind beyond the basic ACM core, that it kept me here for so many years.
If AH just were about "bombing buildings" I'd been gone years ago.
If AH just were about furballing, I would have been gone years ago as well.
Only the battles kept me past my first year or so.
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Sadly like comedy, I don't have to make any of this stuff up.
This post and responses read like the script for Japanese animation series where everyone you run into is a master of something they seem to find every excuse possible to loudly announce. Dangling big toe attack, rising pinky finger defense, or belching rear wind ultimate fist blast. All competing as the ultimate school of killing gerbils in Mongolia, or some nonsense like that.
But, they all defend theirs to the death against all perceived attempts to insult their gerbil hood's ultimate answer of the universe at the last episode of the series. Or something like that. Then along comes season two where a new crop of gerbil killers fight over the same thing wearing different pajamas and an uglier bad guy.
For good measure at least one of the first season's now old guys is still defending the gerbil fu secret of the universe along side of the new hot item young killer of Mongolian gerbils.
Get the point of why not defining combat or fun is keeping the light bill paid?
You are missing my point. I'm not telling anyone how to play the game. I have given responses to help people become better at the game and to utilize different aspects that game offers, instead of always thinking the MA has to change.
It is not like " I can't ever win" a discussion. But besides fugitive who gave a clear rebuttle most don't understand what I've been trying to imply. However, I think shorter bases would add more to the fight. The only way to stop the base taking horde is to stop it with another hoard from a team that feels like upping to stop them. That is how furballs start. There would be soo much more action all across the map, as engagements would be quicker and more easily accessible. That is all I'm saying and it would make the overall fight better all around instead of limiting part of the map to specific categories.
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This horse is pretty well beaten. I'll close out with a few thoughts.
1. I respect the achievement of a KOTH title. It shows mastery of the fighter aircraft in the game. Congratulations on winning that.
2. Nonetheless, I don't think that winning KOTH makes a person's gameplay opinions any more or any less valid than anyone else that has played for a while. Opinions are like…..
3. It's true I don't have the skills I used to have. I'm a damn sight older, my vision isn't as good and my reflexes have slowed. Haven't really played steady in many years and I've forgotten a lot of what I once knew about stall fighting. Doesn't mean I don't still enjoy playing. The was a time when I could give just about anyone a good fight. Never cared for score. Usually just augured when out of gas or bullets.
4. I don't think anyone who hasn't played the Donut map can imagine how the TT and FT fit right into that map and made pretty much everyone happy. No need for a DA when it was up. The community was all in one place.
5. I seriously doubt HT will ever move the bases closer together. I base that opinion on a long face to face breakfast Rude and I had with HT many, many years ago. We discussed moving bases closer, installing fighter towns, making base capture easier. HT disagreed with all those ideas, putting forth his ideas on game theory. I don't think he's changed his mind over the years.
6. On base capture, one thing I truly believe is that making base capture continually more difficult led directly to the hordes. IMO, it seriously hurt gameplay. Early on 3-4 skilled people could de-ack and take a base. The hitch was that if you didn't then defend it….3-4 skilled people would take it right back. So there was a lot of back and forth base taking which was a lot of….fighting and a lot of….fun. A couple of good jabos and a goon could do it. Of course, this really eliminated a true need for heavy buffs, so bases got hardened to keep them happy. More ack, more buildings, towns/map rooms, bigger towns, etc. just to give buffing meaning. The result was the horde. The problem is that it then pretty much takes a horde to get it back. Imagine if it were the old bases. The horde could roll on thru taking bases left and right. Then groups of 3-4 people could trail them and take the bases right back UNLESS the horde broke up to defend their conquests. In short: hard base taking will forever engender the horde.
7. Lastly, I expect no changes to the MA game with the next phase of AH now in late Alpha. I doubt HTC will spend time on this old gray mare while their new filly is about to bust out of the gate. Maybe after the new one is up and running with no problems HTC will revisit this MA stuff but I doubt it. I suspect he'll just let this linger until it dies of old age.
Cyas up there.
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This horse is pretty well beaten. I'll close out with a few thoughts.
1. I respect the achievement of a KOTH title. It shows mastery of the fighter aircraft in the game. Congratulations on winning that.
2. Nonetheless, I don't think that winning KOTH makes a person's gameplay opinions any more or any less valid than anyone else that has played for a while. Opinions are like…..
3. It's true I don't have the skills I used to have. I'm a damn sight older, my vision isn't as good and my reflexes have slowed. Haven't really played steady in many years and I've forgotten a lot of what I once knew about stall fighting. Doesn't mean I don't still enjoy playing. The was a time when I could give just about anyone a good fight. Never cared for score. Usually just augured when out of gas or bullets.
4. I don't think anyone who hasn't played the Donut map can imagine how the TT and FT fit right into that map and made pretty much everyone happy. No need for a DA when it was up. The community was all in one place.
5. I seriously doubt HT will ever move the bases closer together. I base that opinion on a long face to face breakfast Rude and I had with HT many, many years ago. We discussed moving bases closer, installing fighter towns, making base capture easier. HT disagreed with all those ideas, putting forth his ideas on game theory. I don't think he's changed his mind over the years.
6. On base capture, one thing I truly believe is that making base capture continually more difficult led directly to the hordes. IMO, it seriously hurt gameplay. Early on 3-4 skilled people could de-ack and take a base. The hitch was that if you didn't then defend it….3-4 skilled people would take it right back. So there was a lot of back and forth base taking which was a lot of….fighting and a lot of….fun. A couple of good jabos and a goon could do it. Of course, this really eliminated a true need for heavy buffs, so bases got hardened to keep them happy. More ack, more buildings, towns/map rooms, bigger towns, etc. just to give buffing meaning. The result was the horde. The problem is that it then pretty much takes a horde to get it back. Imagine if it were the old bases. The horde could roll on thru taking bases left and right. Then groups of 3-4 people could trail them and take the bases right back UNLESS the horde broke up to defend their conquests. In short: hard base taking will forever engender the horde.
7. Lastly, I expect no changes to the MA game with the next phase of AH now in late Alpha. I doubt HTC will spend time on this old gray mare while their new filly is about to bust out of the gate. Maybe after the new one is up and running with no problems HTC will revisit this MA stuff but I doubt it. I suspect he'll just let this linger until it dies of old age.
Cyas up there.
Thank you toad.
I think everything you wrote here is pretty solid.
That is a good idea about hoards being so prevelant because of base strength. I agree to that the extra AAA and all that makes it very difficult for even a small squad to attempt a base capture. With a lot of people on it is especially difficult to capture the base without having a big mission to literally shut everything down along with the base behind it.
I also think you are right that hitech most likely will not change any of the structure. That is either the most brilliant or craziest thing to do, it keeps the game exact- to a point. Putting the bases closer together or adding a FI or eliminating the 12 hour rule would not make a me or a lot of people stop playing, that is for sure. But I swear to god if he touches that damn AAA flak gun again
with more power I'm done!!! :D
I think it is unforutunate we can't have many more players on on each of these different arenas because they are actually a lot of fun. Just 10 people in the AvA with some fun planes is sooo much fun, along with great practice, and it doesn't take 30 minutes to get to the fight.
I just wanted to present to the new guy that there are other places in AH that can create furballs, which are a lot of fun, 10-15 people on a smog 8 map ( popular H2H map) is seriously some of the best fun you'll have. I do miss that aspect of the game. Sometimes the MA really is boring and there is nothing to do that you want to waist time doing. IMO this is chance to hopefully dive into another room if there are people in there.
I talk about player level skill ability so much because it really does make a difference in fighter ability, furball success, and understanding of plane choice that can make furballing more or less difficult. Being in a huge furball is a lot of fun, but flying a more difficult plane like the p47D11 compared to a tempest or spit8 can make a huge difference on the amount of kills and amount if time you stay alive longer. For many new sticks there is just so much to learn. I could see why they want a FI because the map just looks soo large to them, with little knowledge to of the game to begin with. That is why H2H sorta saved me. But once they learn the game a little better, finding furball fights and winning them becomes a lot easier. Learning and becoming a better fighter will make a tremendous amount of difference to their ides of furballs, in that they can predict the fights, stay alive, get more kills, and have a better understanding of SA, which is incredibly important in furballs. I was using the example that based on my skill level and style of play I can rack up 3-8 kills whenever I up, if I'm lucky, and this is normally in a furball. From this I mean that there are furballs going on and that I can evaluate whether I think it will be a fun fight, I'll find 6-7 con's around and I know how to engage them. This makes a huge difference in my perception of the furball compared to a new players. That is what I was trying to say. That there are furballs and big fights, you just have to identify them. Again, sometimes there isn't, and I'll go and check out the DA.
I am very excited with the new AH coming soon. While I don't want them to change the game a lot. I hope it will be top notch with exciting features, maybe even some we have all mentioned, and hopefully some new maps. I am not opposed to putting a FI in a few maps on the rotation to see how it works out, but hopefully we can get a lot more people to play so that the whole game will still have meaning to the every style of player in the arena for a fun war aspect.
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Bombers attack towns.
Fighters attack bombers.
Escorts (or fighter on a sweep) attack those in return.
And so on.
In the end, you have buffs vs fighters, fighters vs fighter, planes vs gv, gv vs gv and so on. This is called variety. And tactics are necessary as well as a more rounded skillset.
All the things that i need to do in a furball are there, and then some on top. I end up being in many more differing tactical situations (just think of the different altitudes alone), so much more to know and to keep in mind beyond the basic ACM core, that it kept me here for so many years.
If AH just were about "bombing buildings" I'd been gone years ago.
If AH just were about furballing, I would have been gone years ago as well.
Only the battles kept me past my first year or so.
I hear ya, and understand......
I am just totally different and see the game in a totally different light so to speak.
only thing I ever cared about in game is fighters and fighting against odds......dropping bombs... GVing....ehh no thank you.
if one had to play the full game...the way you do I would have left a long time ago.
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so what I took from this thread is that the Muppets need to start faking genuine base captures :banana: and start engineering an enemy response to create and sustain healthy furballs at any base they choose. Then HTC won't have to change anything.
If the enemy start leaving the field thinking it is safe, then renew another folly attack until the enemy captures the base your upping from, but them being the manly men they are they should be able to defend ok and in turn get all the action they crave. ;)
If they can't shoot down the bombers or the GV's attacking them then recruit some dudes as a kind of RAF regiment to protect their home field.
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Or just bring back Donut.