General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: zack1234 on July 29, 2015, 01:21:08 AM
Title: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on July 29, 2015, 01:21:08 AM
A famous lion has been killed by a American dentist with a bow and arrow.
Shameful :old:
The guy is a dentist and educated.
He chopped its head off so its ok.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Gman on July 29, 2015, 01:41:50 AM
:old: :old: It's a ZackRage!
Apparently they baited it off the reserve, and then the dentist loosed his feathered sticks of doom, but didn't kill it, and they found it many hours later after tracking it.
Only THEN did they behead it. They also removed the collar, which the article said is a major no-no, removing a tagged/collared animals collar...I thought it was common sense that when you chop off somethings head, the collar falls off. Who knows, it's Africa after all.
Arrests have been made. There shall be justice Zack! :old: :old:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on July 29, 2015, 11:13:11 AM
yeah its another zackrage haha!!
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on July 29, 2015, 11:33:38 AM
A famous lion has been killed by a American dentist with a bow and arrow. ... He chopped its head off so its ok.
Did this dentist happen to carry a black flag with white scribble on it and was yelling Alla Hu Ackbar when he killed it, then drove away in a Toyota pickup? Because that would explain a lot.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: bustr on July 29, 2015, 03:32:28 PM
The Oxford University was doing a Lion population study in that park. In 2005-2008 a moratorium on hunting took place which bumped up the park Lion population by 50%. 2009 it was restarted and was supposed to be monitored. The guide and land owner where the Lion was baited too, both knew what they were doing. Turns out the hunter has been in trouble in the US for illegally shooting a bear.
The hunter is known for his ability with a cross bow and willingness to violate hunting regulations to get a trophy. So you have three people willing to violate the law, one for his ego and two for a share of $50,000 U.S. The land owner did not have a Lion included with his 2015 permit.
The Lion study shows Lions will repopulate if given the opportunity. Bad people who don't follow the rules got this Lion killed. The controls on the whole process didn't work due to greed. Problem, if there is not some hunting of Lions in that park, then no money to pay for conservation, and no one will make an effort to protect any animals. Then it's poachers and angry farmers eliminating all animals. This is Africa where you are not going to get even the farmers to stop killing animals that compete for their crops or kill their children.
And if you don't give the government a fee\bribe, African governments don't care either.
No trophy hunting = no money = extinct animals.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Chalenge on July 29, 2015, 03:50:18 PM
I say we clone the lions and let them use California as a lion preserve. Then the people that like to hug these cute little animals can enjoy that practice personally.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: SmokinLoon on July 29, 2015, 04:08:42 PM
:bhead
A: I dont agree with the situation, but some of you weepers need to put this in to perspective and jump off the bandwagon.... quick. Don't go off the deep end!
B: ISIS is beheading "enemies" of Islam and throwing gays off rooftops, Mexican drug cartels are doing similar atrocities....
C: Self titled "stoner Islamist jihadist" shoots up US military members. "Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner is a hero...
D: Planned Parenthood is selling chopped up baby parts for profit.... (Im pro choice, btw)
E: The US is taking a page right ot of Chamberlain's playbook and giving Iran nooks while backstabbing our Allies...
F: The license, fees, room/board, etc, to hunt the lion gave about $55,000 to the local economy when the local average income is about $235 a month... yeah, a MONTH. Think about that.
G: The "quartering" of a game animal is common. VERY common. I quarter and butcher deer, antelope, and elk for transport out of the field. A full grown lion is a big friggin animal. I would have quartered it too. This "beheading" happened well after it was dead. Let it be...just let it be. Dont make drama out of it.
REALITY.... learn it. There are many other things to weep about.
If in fact this "hunter" lured the lion off the game preserve then let the locals deal with it. By having Cecil gone, younger lions will be able to step up and mature and take his place. Just like the movie "Lion King". So stop your crying.
Now back to your regular scheduled cartoons.....
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Chris79 on July 29, 2015, 04:31:40 PM
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: IamSalem on July 29, 2015, 04:38:21 PM
Yes, it's sad. Endangered animals should be secure.
Just don't let this distract from whatever the media doesn't want you to hear about. :old:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: SlipKnt on July 29, 2015, 04:50:02 PM
I support Zack's rage rant.
It is unacceptable! And dentists are pure evil...
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Bodhi on July 29, 2015, 05:12:08 PM
Only Asiatic Lions are endangered. The World Wildlife Foundation does not even list lions as vulnerable, but another agency has.
Not really nice to be baiting it out of the sanctuary, but it is what it is. For perspective, Isis has been killing scores of people every week, yet no seems to care about that.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: bustr on July 29, 2015, 05:30:15 PM
F: The license, fees, room/board, etc, to hunt the lion gave about $55,000 to the local economy when the local average income is about $235 a month... yeah, a MONTH. Think about that.
Unfortunately much of the fees go into middleman and bureaucrats pockets. In Africa wages are about a $1.00 a day for the grunts who do the real work in this industry. Enlightened outsiders from the first world have grants and can go home if things get too tough counting Lion noses.
I would suppose the preserve has yearly population control lottery hunts run through the government and licensed services. Cecil was lured off the property for $50,000 by a licensed guide and farmer with a yearly quota tag for his property because it was next to the preserve. Lion was not on his 2015 quota tag. On the preserve the guide services would have recognized Cecil only for being too old and near death, or a known nuisance Lion who went off the reservation and caused trouble.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on July 29, 2015, 05:41:24 PM
I say a prayer for old Cecil so that he goes to lion heaven... he was a good lion that didnt deserve to be killed the way he was...
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: PR3D4TOR on July 29, 2015, 05:49:35 PM
For perspective, Isis has been killing scores of people every week, yet no seems to care about that.
Now that you've made that outrageous comparison lets follow it to its inevitable conclusion: We should bomb hunters in Africa and send in the SAS and other special forces to kill them?
Back to sanity: Seems we care a hell of a lot more about what ISIS is doing than what hunters are doing. ISIS gets killed, hunters get angry rants on the internet.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: bustr on July 29, 2015, 06:34:55 PM
Effecting perpetual outrage today is a popular way to make friends on the internet, make money on the internet, and get away with telling people on the internet that you are more pious than the pope. And no one will have the nerve to ask them why they forgot to take their meds for the last month. Because all the other screw balls off their meds will spam your facebook and twitter accounts with hate mail.
Internet culture is like a teenage girl justifying dressing like a slut for Friday Mass.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on July 29, 2015, 06:49:35 PM
Effecting perpetual outrage today is a popular way to make friends on the internet, make money on the internet, and get away with telling people on the internet that you are more pious than the pope. And no one will have the nerve to ask them why they forgot to take their meds for the last month. Because all the other screw balls off their meds will spam your facebook and twitter accounts with hate mail.
Internet culture is like a teenage girl justifying dressing like a slut for Friday Mass.
ok what are you trying to say???
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Lab Rat 3947 on July 29, 2015, 08:13:38 PM
Quote
Internet culture is like a teenage girl justifying dressing like a slut for Friday Mass.
signature worthy . . . and very true :cheers:
and as for another male lion "taking over" Cecil's pride, the first thing they do is kill the cubs of the former alpha male, so that their line can take over. Standard behavior for lions. Sad but true.
LtngRydr
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: icepac on July 29, 2015, 08:23:02 PM
The obvious thing to do is make the hunter the prey.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Lab Rat 3947 on July 29, 2015, 08:26:05 PM
Quote
The obvious thing to do is make the hunter the prey.
+1 :banana: :cheers: :old:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: PR3D4TOR on July 29, 2015, 08:49:50 PM
To clarify my previous posts, I have nothing against hunting. Been hunting for many years myself. However, poaching is a despicable crime which hurts not only wildlife, but legitimate hunters as well.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: bustr on July 29, 2015, 09:12:07 PM
At least it was not a whole herd of elephants left to rot in the sun for ivory.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Karnak on July 29, 2015, 09:21:15 PM
At least it was not a whole herd of elephants left to rot in the sun for ivory.
I doubt there will be any elephants left in the wild by the time I die.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Aspen on July 29, 2015, 09:41:35 PM
If laws were broken, justice should be served. In Africa, the hunter has very little control over the details and how a hunt takes place. Hunts, licenses, dates, areas and often specific animals to be taken are tightly controlled by the Professional Hunters (outfitter/guide) and land owners. Its possible the dentist may have known what was going on but its very plausible that he figured everything was by the book. I haven't read all the details yet.
African lions are not an endangered species.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: FX1 on July 29, 2015, 10:40:34 PM
My father rule as a hunter was to never shoot anything that had a collar. This hunter knew something was up when he released the arrow. Sneaking up on the king of the jungle is very dangerous especially within bow range.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Dichotomy on July 29, 2015, 10:51:13 PM
To clarify my previous posts, I have nothing against hunting. Been hunting for many years myself. However, poaching is a despicable crime which hurts not only wildlife, but legitimate hunters as well.
I used to hunt. I loved going out with my Grandfather for quail, dove, and rabbits. After he died I kind of lost interest. Went on a couple of deer hunts with a guy who's dad had 450 acres and year round deer feeders. Seemed like a lazy and shifty way to do it. So I gave it up. Now I'd have a hard time pulling a trigger on an animal unless it was threatening me.
That said I have no issue with people who do it and find enjoyment in it so long as they're following the law. Granted I have teased some 'mighty deer hunters' telling them that if they wanted to make it sporting they should go out in a loin cloth with a buck knife. That gets some of the dumb ones pretty spun up and it's amusing. Or back when I was playing AH I'd give our office hunter guff telling him that I hunted people and didn't have a bag limit. ;)
But I agree Predator. If you're poaching you're a piece of filth and you're giving people who do things correctly and within the law a huge black eye. And sadly thanks to the internet the drama queens will scream the loudest.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: ink on July 29, 2015, 11:03:43 PM
this person would be unrecognizable if they gave me ten minutes with him.
that's my one and only post on this subject.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: PR3D4TOR on July 29, 2015, 11:22:48 PM
You monster!
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on July 30, 2015, 01:33:15 AM
I have three sets of teeth, well two new sets one set was from a rummage sale which i use when i fly AH, they tend to fall out when i get all excited when owning Bruv or joker :)
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: FLOOB on July 30, 2015, 02:20:08 AM
He killed a massive lion with a bow and arrow, what possible chance do you think you'd have?
What ink meant is he would tattoo him all over.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: danny76 on July 30, 2015, 04:55:57 AM
Dentists are simply butchers who failed the exam
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: deSelys on July 30, 2015, 05:02:26 AM
While I'm no hunter and would prefer that people would go after animals for fun with cameras instead of guns or bows, I understand the economic realities of wildlife preserves and I'm not shocked by people paying big amounts of money to get the right to kill some animals. As I'm not anymore shocked by pictures of them posing with their lion trophy than by others posing with a dead rabbit or a freshly caught carp.
OTOH I'm appalled by the violence of the mass- and social-media reactions against this guy, dentist-lion-killer or not. Drunk drivers who wipe out a whole family, rapists and murderers don't get so much worldwide outrage. I can't imagine what his kids must go through. So +1 with Bustr.
Go watch this educational speech, it's time to step out of the emotional bandwagon and go back to measure and reason : http://www.ted.com/talks/jon_ronson_what_happens_when_online_shaming_spirals_out_of_control (http://www.ted.com/talks/jon_ronson_what_happens_when_online_shaming_spirals_out_of_control)
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on July 30, 2015, 05:26:33 AM
While I'm no hunter and would prefer that people would go after animals for fun with cameras instead of guns or bows, I understand the economic realities of wildlife preserves and I'm not shocked by people paying big amounts of money to get the right to kill some animals. As I'm not anymore shocked by pictures of them posing with their lion trophy than by others posing with a dead rabbit or a freshly caught carp.
OTOH I'm appalled by the violence of the mass- and social-media reactions against this guy, dentist-lion-killer or not. Drunk drivers who wipe out a whole family, rapists and murderers don't get so much worldwide outrage. I can't imagine what his kids must go through. So +1 with Bustr.
Go watch this educational speech, it's time to step out of the emotional bandwagon and go back to measure and reason : http://www.ted.com/talks/jon_ronson_what_happens_when_online_shaming_spirals_out_of_control (http://www.ted.com/talks/jon_ronson_what_happens_when_online_shaming_spirals_out_of_control)
Hunters and guides in Africa (and here for that fact) are one of the main reasons species like the rhino and elephant still exist. Their money is what supports their conservation, buys millions of acres of land and are one of the first line of defense against poachers. That is fact.. As much as people hate it, this dentist by spending that money has done more than most of the social media bleeding hearts out there. That said I believe he's still a jrkoff for shooting a collared animal. That is an animal being tracked and studied to assist in conserving the species, and the fact that the animal was a local favorite being used to educate people on lions. That and the issue he had with the Bear he took a few years ago shows that he may be questionable when it comes to his hunting ethics. I'm also not thrilled he went after such a large animal with a bow....the thought of wounding an animal is every hunters nightmare....and while I don't condone bow hunting I don't/won't do it.
Like it or not, the people (me as a hunter included) who are vilified for hunting are the #1 contributors to the conservation of not only game animals but other species as well. Thankfully we know the good we do, and will continue to do.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: MiloMorai on July 30, 2015, 05:28:57 AM
The obvious thing to do is make the hunter the prey.
That is interesting... Bring back gladiatorial fights, man vs. Lion. A poacher caught will be sent to fight the lion in a fair fight - bare knuckles only!
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Ripsnort on July 30, 2015, 08:23:00 AM
I am a meat hunter (no snide remarks now!) and I do not understand trophy hunters, be it a big rack or meaningless head hunts as in the case of this lion.
I have nothing in common with that sort of hunter nor do I even want to associate with them.
My uncle, a corporate lawyer for his entire career, has a 'trophy' room full of game from Africa. I -just-don't-get-it. :mad:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on July 30, 2015, 08:40:34 AM
I am a meat hunter (no snide remarks now!) and I do not understand trophy hunters, be it a big rack or meaningless head hunts as in the case of this lion.
I have nothing in common with that sort of hunter nor do I even want to associate with them.
My uncle, a corporate lawyer for his entire career, has a 'trophy' room full of game from Africa. I -just-don't-get-it. :mad:
Meat hunter here as well....a trophy means nothing to me, but I do understand why they allow these hunts in Africa. (Not saying you don't)
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on July 30, 2015, 08:43:58 AM
I think he could be owned in a fist fight :)
Traffic wardens, car salesmen and Dentists are cut from the same clothe.
Hunting is evil :old:
That is why potnoodles and the big mac was invented
Who started this angry thread?
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: MiloMorai on July 30, 2015, 10:03:14 AM
Social Justice Warriors are getting a little out of hand... Keep in mind these are the people sitting in a climate controlled room in front of a luxury item (tablet, PC, laptop) telling others what they can, and can't do.
It was an unethical kill, plain and simple. Appropriate conservation action should be taken by the appropriate authorities. If those authorities happen to be corrupt, welcome to the real world north american ignorance. :cool:
Oh and, IN!
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: guncrasher on July 30, 2015, 11:30:55 AM
Social Justice Warriors are getting a little out of hand... Keep in mind these are the people sitting in a climate controlled room in front of a luxury item (tablet, PC, laptop) telling others what they can, and can't do.
It was an unethical kill, plain and simple. Appropriate conservation action should be taken by the appropriate authorities. If those authorities happen to be corrupt, welcome to the real world north american ignorance. :cool:
Oh and, IN!
arent all of us sitting in front of a luxury item (pc) in a climate controlled room telling others what they can and cant do?
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on July 30, 2015, 12:09:15 PM
I am in cave :old:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: WWhiskey on July 30, 2015, 12:17:36 PM
Quote
"What lion?" acting information minister Prisca Mupfumira asked in response to a request for comment about Cecil, who was at that moment topping global news bulletins and generating reams of abuse for his killer on websites in the United States and Europe.
Quote
"Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker on the streets of Harare. "What is so special about this one?"
"Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange."
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Meatwad on July 30, 2015, 12:22:27 PM
arent all of us sitting in front of a luxury item (pc) in a climate controlled room telling others what they can and cant do?
I am outside in the heat eating delicious deep fried skins of pigs with bbq flavoring.
I mean..unga bunga! Me find woman, bonk with club
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on July 30, 2015, 12:54:12 PM
mmm... how bout pepperoni pizza does that count??
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on July 30, 2015, 01:06:18 PM
btw i believe he was killed off with a rifle not with the bow and arrow, I don't know if anybody has already mentioned that
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on July 30, 2015, 01:21:31 PM
Why did he just kill it by stabbing it in both eyes with a sharp stick :old:
shooting it with a gun means that dentist boy had some decent morals.
The fact that these sort of people cannot understand that gaining self gratification by killing animals who are walking by minding their own business is a bit creepy.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 30, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
The dentist likes to lure his prey in areas where he's not supposed to kill them at. He got busted for poaching bears in the US a few years ago.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on July 30, 2015, 01:26:55 PM
whats the bigger crime taking a lion off his park and killing him. or slaughtering cows by the dozens if not hundreds or even thousands everyday in America
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Muzzy on July 30, 2015, 02:17:23 PM
whats the bigger crime taking a lion off his park and killing him. or slaughtering cows by the dozens if not hundreds or even thousands everyday in America
Wow...there's so many red herrings on this thread you'd think this was a 12 hour Stalingrad scenario....
The argument "why are we worried about x when we should be worried about y." is a fallacy. It's introducing a second topic that is not relevant to the first. It assumes that because we are concerned about x we cannot possibly be concerned about y, like we can't chew bubble gum and walk at the same time. That's a very broad assumption to make. Also, the logical extension of that argument is that we should only be upset about more immediate or broader concerns and we should just let these smaller injustices die out. By extension, I could say "Why are you so upset that Skyrr ho'ed you when women and children are being butchered by ISIS?" We know the world and human nature don't work that way. Indignation at injustice is not a finite resource. There's plenty of it to go around. Just because more people happen to be vocal about a subject doesn't mean they're not just as concerned about other tragedies that are happening at the same time.
Yes there are far worse things going on in the world than the death of one lion, and yes we are concerned by varying degrees about what's going on...or at least I am. But that doesn't detract from the fact that this was a reprehensible act and the instigators need to be punished for it. You could argue against that statement if you wish, but the statement that we should be more concerned about other issues is an ineffective and illogical way of going about it. Moreover, if you hold to the core of this particular logical fallacy, you shouldn't even bother arguing about Cecil or even playing Aces High in the first place, but rather focus your attention on "what really matters".
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: FX1 on July 30, 2015, 03:34:02 PM
A bit creepy? Bashing a natural human instinct is creepy to me. I still want you to come hunting with me. I know it will be one of the most memorable experience in your life. It's hard to explain but after your first kill you will understand.
Creepy to me is sitting around the cpu burning up forums and bashing other people human rights.
Let the supermarket dry up and I guarantee that hunting will make complete sense.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: IamSalem on July 30, 2015, 03:35:25 PM
That's true Muzzy, they are bad comparisons.
But why is it that the death of a lion sparks peoples emotions? I'm just saying if people are going to start moral crusades on right and wrong, they might want to recheck their moral compass when it only seems to bear true for events like this.
(for the record I do hope this guy gets what he deserves, but I'm not going to go as far as wishing cancer on his family like some people.)
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: bustr on July 30, 2015, 04:24:11 PM
A bit creepy? Bashing a natural human instinct is creepy to me. I still want you to come hunting with me. I know it will be one of the most memorable experience in your life. It's hard to explain but after your first kill you will understand.
Creepy to me is sitting around the cpu burning up forums and bashing other people human rights.
Let the supermarket dry up and I guarantee that hunting will make complete sense.
Until the day this ever happens. The Internet makes the people you are trying to persuade to your reality the normative, and you a bitter clinging nutter. They have a universe of supporters looking for their next emotional drug fix. The chance to orgasm in another emotional Internet Mob pitch fork and torches monster hunt out weighs everything else.
There is too much money being made by African governments from guided Lion hunts combined with Lions are in healthy numbers that this will pass in another week. And the junky's will be looking for the next fake monster hunt Mob to get a fix from.
The Internet has become the ultimate cheap fake reality TV show on earth. Anyone can join for the price of internet access and a High Tech Toy.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Muzzy on July 30, 2015, 04:49:01 PM
But why is it that the death of a lion sparks peoples emotions? I'm just saying if people are going to start moral crusades on right and wrong, they might want to recheck their moral compass when it only seems to bear true for events like this.
(for the record I do hope this guy gets what he deserves, but I'm not going to go as far as wishing cancer on his family like some people.)
I would agree that current news media tends to shine a light on whatever it thinks will get a rise out of the populace. That's why so-called pundit shows and other grandstanding for the press are so effective. I would also agree that some reactions are a bit hyperbolic in this case. I think, however, that the moral compass in its rawest sense points directly and unequivocally to "very very wrong" when it comes to this incident, and the people in question should be prosecuted. That should be the beginning and end of the discussion.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on July 30, 2015, 05:18:09 PM
Using a bow and arrow.
Its creepy and everyone knows it.
What pleasure can you get from doing that?
Does he say i kill things with a bow and arrow, but i am not in danger mommy i have minders with express rifles.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: guncrasher on July 30, 2015, 05:36:39 PM
A bit creepy? Bashing a natural human instinct is creepy to me. I still want you to come hunting with me. I know it will be one of the most memorable experience in your life. It's hard to explain but after your first kill you will understand.
Creepy to me is sitting around the cpu burning up forums and bashing other people human rights.
Let the supermarket dry up and I guarantee that hunting will make complete sense.
didnt know we had a human right to hunting.
semp
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: WWhiskey on July 30, 2015, 05:55:39 PM
is there a specific law you thought prohibited hunting? you do understand rights are not given by laws, they are inherent . laws sometimes restrict rights, sometimes unlawfully!
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: FLOOB on July 30, 2015, 07:32:48 PM
But why is it that the death of a lion sparks peoples emotions? I'm just saying if people are going to start moral crusades on right and wrong, they might want to recheck their moral compass when it only seems to bear true for events like this.
(for the record I do hope this guy gets what he deserves, but I'm not going to go as far as wishing cancer on his family like some people.)
I know right. How many humans were tortured, shot and maybe even eaten in Africa last week? Where was Jimmy Kimmel's tears for them? I've always felt there was something seriously disturbing about people who would rather spend their time and resources helping animals rather than people.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: FX1 on July 30, 2015, 07:52:58 PM
Using a bow and arrow is the highest skill level in hunting. Nothing creepy about that. It takes years just to be accurate with a bow and then a number of year to have the skill level as a hunter to position yourself for a shot. Animals are not stupid...
Shooting a lion with a bow is a death wish. Even with two guys standing behind you with a 12 ga. A lion can close 30 yards really fast.
So this guy was off his rocker and should be punished appropriate.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on July 30, 2015, 08:27:01 PM
Using a bow and arrow is the highest skill level in hunting. Nothing creepy about that. It takes years just to be accurate with a bow and then a number of year to have the skill level as a hunter to position yourself for a shot. Animals are not stupid...
Shooting a lion with a bow is a death wish. Even with two guys standing behind you with a 12 ga. A lion can close 30 yards really fast.
So this guy was off his rocker and should be punished appropriate.
I personally think we should let the facts get found out and not crucify the guy in the court of public opinion. I've heard enough differing points of view but have not heard or read any incontrovertible piece of evidence that proves anything one way or another. Maybe he did know he was doing something wrong and maybe he didn't but the guy is getting his life ripped totally apart when someone that murders someone else gets the benefit of a doubt, a trial, and appeals out the ying yang, until they are exhausted and the short attention span of the human race forgets about them.
My personal opinion is if, in regards to animals, if you don't intend to eat what you hunt don't hunt it.
I do my hunting for food down the street at the worst Wal Mart in the US.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Rich46yo on July 30, 2015, 10:35:02 PM
Yaknow in Africa they consider all these American Disney cartoon lovers a bunch of weirdo's. Sport hunting is big business in Africa and not only bring in considerable income thru jobs but also is an important source of food. By Law game animals, the eatable ones, have to be used and consumed. This is of course in South Africa, about the only lawful country in Africa. In mad Bob's Zimbabwe anything goes. I'd bet a sizable portion of the money paid to whack Cecil is in some official's Swiss Bank account now.
Thing is there is only so much habitat, mostly paid for by Hunting, and only so many animals can live on it. So seasons and limits are allocated to keep the populations strong while bringing in much revenue to the locals who NEED jobs. Ive been there several times, the locals are calling all you Cecil lovers a bunch of dimwits right now "who in Hell would name a Lion"?
Of course poaching is a crime and the offenders have to pay. But this is a dirt poor country, since Mugabe stole it, and many if not most of its children go to bed hungry since its also ravaged by AIDs and so many dont even have parents. Do YOU think they are worried about Cecil or do YOU think they are worried about where their next meal comes from? First off they'd think only a moron would name a Lion anyways.
A male Lion lives about 15 years in the wild. In the last few years of its life it lives alone cause a younger, stronger Lion has kicked its butt and bit its package off so it cant reproduce anymore. Then the new Lion kills off the old Lions babies so's the Lionesses go into Heat again quickly. Its these old Lions in the end of its time that permits are issued for and for big money. The kind of money that ensures Africa's wildlife lives to see another day. Same thing for Elephants.
The average sport hunter spends over 3 times the money into the economy then the average eco-tourist does.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: guncrasher on July 30, 2015, 10:36:02 PM
I would say we do, humans have been doing it since we decided to stand upright.
we have also been killing each other, but we don't have a right to it.
semp
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Gman on July 30, 2015, 11:21:20 PM
What right does a shark have to eat a seal?
It's also too bad humans can't speak "Orca", or "Cat", or "Polar Bear", so we could ask THEM why they often play with their prey, hunt it, toss it around, pick it up and prance with it to show off, then just punt it someplace and not eat it. Probably because it's fun, much the same reason many humans often hunt.
Regardless of how people feel about Simba being lured away from his reserve and killed, people who went to the dentist's yelp and facebook page, and posted fake reviews, as well as criminal posts uttering death threats by the hundreds and thousands, should all be prosecuted by the FBI to the fullest extent of the law. The dozens of employees at that clinic had nothing to do with kitty getting killed, and even the hunter who did it - what does his medical practice have to do with his hunting? Like Bustr said, the internet has become the greatest show on earth for those who think there is never repercussions.
This particular case would be a perfect example for the DA to start laying hundreds of charges under various "net" laws, against those who think their hate/threats/nonsense is protected because they jumped on the bandwagon of the latest cause celebre.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Muzzy on July 30, 2015, 11:57:58 PM
People who do not agree with what Walter Palmer has done have an equal right to voice their opinions legally. The alternative is complicit acceptance of what he's done. If what he did was wrong, then he should be prosecuted. If his patients feel they can no longer see him on moral grounds, that's their right as well. If you believe that "people should be spending their time protesting other things." then that same argument applies to everything you do. Under that same argument, you shouldn't be wasting time playing Aces High when you could spend your 15 bucks on something that really matters. It's the same argument. You can't argue hypocrisy because, in part, if "people shouldn't be wasting their time on this one", then you, by extension, should not be "wasting your time" here.
The only opinion that matters in this case, is whether you think what he did was right or wrong.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Gman on July 31, 2015, 02:41:17 AM
^^ Don't disagree. LEGALLY being the operative word in your point. Uttering threats of violence, doxing the dentists personal information and that of his family/employees, these are all crimes, and hundreds of people have committed them just at Yelp and Facebook alone. Making up false statements about poor dental service is fraudulent and bad enough, but direct threats of violence? Sorry, that's beyond "equal right to voice opinions". Same as it's his patients rights to not see him on moral grounds, it's his patients rights TO see him for the same, yet he's had to close shop due to the volume and level of threats made against him, his staff, his family, and even his patients who have tried to defend him on Yelp. That isn't hypocrisy, claiming that all the illegal threats and activity as "an equal right" certainly is though. I do agree that the age old "you shouldn't concern yourself with issue x or y, because 10,000 babies died of malnutrition or war today", isn't a valid argument on this issue or any other, but that's not what I said, or what I'm saying now.
Simply stated, uttering threats, posting personal information like addresses and contact information and recommending to others that they too contact and harass the target person/business/associates, then trying to excuse such behavior with a bunch of verbose theories regarding complicity, morals, rights, and hypocrisy, is lunacy.
People have the right to voice their displeasure, in all the LEGAL ways afforded them by law in the USA and the rest of the free world. It isn't "only opinion" that matters when some people choose to voice their opinion by making violent threats, and using lies/fraud to disrupt the business, which has nothing to do with the hunting issue whatsoever. Those calling for the prosecution of the hunting dentist, being such strong proponents of justice as they claim, should be calling for the prosecution as well of those threatening violence towards those associated with or defending the dentist too.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: FLOOB on July 31, 2015, 04:00:19 AM
Attitudes about animals have changed a lot since I was a kid. When I was a kid people didn't desex their cats. Some of you guys over 35 can probably remember a time when if your cat had kittens and you couldn't give them away you put them a burlap sac and took them to the river. Is that even legal to do in the US nowadays? In most countries it's probably still done that way.
I remember not long ago when some people from out of state moved in near my grandpa's place. As a gift they gave him a goat, he butchered it and being neighborly offered them some. They were horrified.
Them africans who trap monkeys for food think americans are stupid for freaking out about a human killing a lion. They're probably right. Africans do hate lions though. Some maasai tribesman reading the news about americans decrying the killing of a lion is probably thinking, "yeah well, you don't have to live with them".
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: PR3D4TOR on July 31, 2015, 09:30:35 AM
^^ Don't disagree. LEGALLY being the operative word in your point. Uttering threats of violence, doxing the dentists personal information and that of his family/employees, these are all crimes, and hundreds of people have committed them just at Yelp and Facebook alone. Making up false statements about poor dental service is fraudulent and bad enough, but direct threats of violence? Sorry, that's beyond "equal right to voice opinions". Same as it's his patients rights to not see him on moral grounds, it's his patients rights TO see him for the same, yet he's had to close shop due to the volume and level of threats made against him, his staff, his family, and even his patients who have tried to defend him on Yelp. That isn't hypocrisy, claiming that all the illegal threats and activity as "an equal right" certainly is though. I do agree that the age old "you shouldn't concern yourself with issue x or y, because 10,000 babies died of malnutrition or war today", isn't a valid argument on this issue or any other, but that's not what I said, or what I'm saying now.
Simply stated, uttering threats, posting personal information like addresses and contact information and recommending to others that they too contact and harass the target person/business/associates, then trying to excuse such behavior with a bunch of verbose theories regarding complicity, morals, rights, and hypocrisy, is lunacy.
People have the right to voice their displeasure, in all the LEGAL ways afforded them by law in the USA and the rest of the free world. It isn't "only opinion" that matters when some people choose to voice their opinion by making violent threats, and using lies/fraud to disrupt the business, which has nothing to do with the hunting issue whatsoever. Those calling for the prosecution of the hunting dentist, being such strong proponents of justice as they claim, should be calling for the prosecution as well of those threatening violence towards those associated with or defending the dentist too.
Maybe they are just playing with their prey.. I'm waiting for a wall of text on this one teeheee p.s. i did swat a moth the other day and felt no remorse cuz he was in the house where he doesn't belong...
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on July 31, 2015, 11:20:21 AM
we have also been killing each other, but we don't have a right to it.
semp
One has nothing to do with the other. Hunting historically is for sustenance and protection, So I would say its a basic human right to be able to feed yourself and your kind and protect yourself.....Killing other humans (other than self defense) is historically out of anger / disagreement and consumption of / gaining raw materials and territory amongst other things. Your statement makes no sence related to the discussion, or his (FX1's) comment
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on July 31, 2015, 11:34:35 AM
so you're saying killling another human is a right that we all have.. you've lost your mind mbailey
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on July 31, 2015, 03:49:46 PM
so you're saying killling another human is a right that we all have.. you've lost your mind mbailey
If that's what you read into what I typed, you need to go back to school, or learn how to comprehend things. How you can even gather what you state above, out of what I said is beyond me........ :rolleyes:
I mean really.....read it again.....slowly, maybe you will get it.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: BuckShot on July 31, 2015, 06:30:44 PM
If lion meat tasted good, they would not be endangered.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: bustr on July 31, 2015, 06:38:28 PM
King James had the bible rewritten because he saw the older Geneva as an invitation for subjects to justify sedition in the name of the almighty. Two very important meanings were changed. ----------------------------- King James - judge not lest ye be judged.
From the Hebrew - condemn not lest ye be condemned. ----------------------------- King James - Thou shalt not kill.
From the Hebrew - Thou shalt not murder. -----------------------------
So today we have a schizophrenic understanding of our natural rights in relationship to our Judeo Christian heritage.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: BoilerDown on July 31, 2015, 06:39:47 PM
One has nothing to do with the other. Hunting historically is for sustenance and protection, So I would say its a basic human right to be able to feed yourself and your kind and protect yourself.....Killing other humans (other than self defense) is historically out of anger / disagreement and consumption of / gaining raw materials and territory amongst other things. Your statement makes no sence related to the discussion, or his (FX1's) comment
what I am saying is we don't have a right to hunting any more than a right to fishing. We are allowed to in some parts with some restrictions.
as an example, let's say I'm starving and so is my family, cant find no job and I'm not gonna pillage and plunder. so I kill my dog, humanly, cook it and eat it.
While in lots of countries nobody would care, and I'm pretty sure historically speaking, lots have killed their dogs and ate the going back thousands of years.
guess what happens if I do :).
semp
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: eagl on July 31, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
CNN and fox news got ahold of some of the guy's previous trophy hunt photos, and showed them. They didn't condemn him for being a trophy hunter, but I think any large scale organized support for the guy pretty much vanished with the display of those photos and the revelation that his next trophy goal was apparently an elephant. The guy's a hard-core trophy hunter at a time where pretty much all the trophy animals he shot are endangered and considered far more valuable alive than mounted on some rich dude's wall or stuffed on display in his "hey I'm a HUNTER MAN!" man-cave.
Basically the image being built of this guy is that he has lived a life of self-absorbed egotism satisfied only by killing trophy animals for fun, at least some of which are critically endangered. Legal or not, I don't think many "globally aware" people have any sympathy for his current troubles and "regular folk" won't have any trouble dismissing him as a rich jerk who thought he could get away with anything by throwing money at it and claiming he was misled or whatever.
Seriously, who goes after a lion with a bow and arrow, for fun? What a tool. And people trusted him to put his hands in their mouth while they were sedated, without realizing that in his world it was all about him... Ick. Wouldn't surprise me if people start digging and find other situations where he pretty much thought he was above the law or could do anything he wanted. That sort of ego doesn't usually limit itself to one vice.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: BaldEagl on August 01, 2015, 01:32:21 AM
Living in the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St Paul I've been watching this story closely on the local news. I was actually surprised when it went national and then learned it had turned into an international story.
People have hunted since the beginning. Like every animal we have to eat. Fortunately we have the ability to exist either carnivorously or as vegetarians and, most likely due to physical merits, males became hunters and females became gatherers.
As society grew we became farmers. This allowed the feeding of large populations and reduced the need to hunt. Men became the "bread winners" while women continued to gather (shop), rear children and handle domestic duties just as they had.
Farming grew to include both potions of our diets; meat and vegetables/fruits. We farm all types of animals to feed the worlds population; cows, pigs, chicken, turkey, fish, etc. Thank God for farmers! I like meat and don't have time to hunt for my own.
As farming grew the instinct to hunt remained. You can easily see this any day in your office, at home or walking down the street. Have you ever wondered why women walk so loudly while men don't? The instinctive gatherer in women taught them to make noise to scare predators away while the instinct to hunt in men taught them to remain as quiet as possible.
Some people made the transition from hunter to worker easily. In others the instinct to hunt remained strong. Some hunt to supplement other food sources, or to provide foods which aren't readily available commercially. Others hunt strictly for sport. Some hunt for sport veiled by the use of the animal they hunted.
I grew up in far northern MN where hunting was practiced by most males beginning at an early age. I remember seeing pictures of big game hunters in Africa with their kills. They were glorified. I saw a lot more pictures of locals with theirs; deer, bear, fish, partridge, etc. Growing up, every lodge was adorned with deer heads, racks and mounted fish (they still are). Back then there were a lot of animals in the world and not much regulation. I remember killing a couple of innocent animals at about 8 years old with my .22 (which I still have). I felt so bad I gave up hunting but don't blame anyone else for their enjoyment of the sport. Fishing never bothered me nor did seeing the mounted heads at the lodge.
Bow hunting is taking it to a whole other level. My oldest brother was an avid, if unsuccessful, deer bow hunter. Just before hunting season started we'd have deer all over the open fields around my parent's home. I used to be able to get the fawns to come lick salt out of my hand. A few days before deer hunting season opened all the deer would disappear. Animals have instincts and they aren't dumb.
So I see this story about a big game hunter in Africa who evidently paid his money to hunt a lion with a bow and arrow claiming he thought everything about the hunt was legal and proper. I see the clips of people protesting outside his business. I can even sympathize a little with the woman lamenting that the money she's paid him went to support this activity, although I suppose if she tracked every dollar she spent and where it ended up she'd be much more distraught.
Next I see he had a felony charge for killing a bear in WI outside the regulated hunting zone, which combined with the charge of luring this particular lion off the preserve begins to illustrate a pattern of offense. If this was a collared animal that only makes things worse. Today I see that Zimbabwe has initiated extradition while at the same time seeing that the local parties involved were released on $1000 bail.
I don't have any problem with this guy wanting to go big game hunting. I do have a problem if he wittingly did something outside the law and his background points to the possibility, although once this story reached the level it did every bit of dirt that can be uncovered on this guy will be and none of what he's ever done positive will be. I don't have a problem with his clients deciding to move their business but I do have a problem with false accusations and threats. I do have a problem with him being forced out of business before all the facts are on the table and the issue has been decided legally, not because of his livelihood, but because of the livelihoods of his employees.
A story? Sure. An international flashpoint? Give me a break. It's one man who may be a bit unscrupulous and one lion who was evidently beloved because he was old.
This has been blown WAY out of proportion.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Chalenge on August 01, 2015, 03:38:15 AM
This is what happens when you give everyone a trophy for "participating" and then also present every animal as if it is cute and cuddly. I do not like the way this lion was treated, I mean it's just one step away from domestic being protected, and named, and all that, but I would love to see any one of these reporters stand up to a lion with just a bow and arrow. I realize this guy had guides with rifles covering him (maybe that's one thing that should come to an end), but it still takes major cojones.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: danny76 on August 01, 2015, 05:35:30 AM
CNN and fox news got ahold of some of the guy's previous trophy hunt photos, and showed them. They didn't condemn him for being a trophy hunter, but I think any large scale organized support for the guy pretty much vanished with the display of those photos and the revelation that his next trophy goal was apparently an elephant. The guy's a hard-core trophy hunter at a time where pretty much all the trophy animals he shot are endangered and considered far more valuable alive than mounted on some rich dude's wall or stuffed on display in his "hey I'm a HUNTER MAN!" man-cave.
Basically the image being built of this guy is that he has lived a life of self-absorbed egotism satisfied only by killing trophy animals for fun, at least some of which are critically endangered. Legal or not, I don't think many "globally aware" people have any sympathy for his current troubles and "regular folk" won't have any trouble dismissing him as a rich jerk who thought he could get away with anything by throwing money at it and claiming he was misled or whatever.
Seriously, who goes after a lion with a bow and arrow, for fun? What a tool. And people trusted him to put his hands in their mouth while they were sedated, without realizing that in his world it was all about him... Ick. Wouldn't surprise me if people start digging and find other situations where he pretty much thought he was above the law or could do anything he wanted. That sort of ego doesn't usually limit itself to one vice.
^^^^ Spot on :old:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on August 01, 2015, 06:08:39 AM
Living in the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St Paul I've been watching this story closely on the local news. I was actually surprised when it went national and then learned it had turned into an international story.
People have hunted since the beginning. Like every animal we have to eat. Fortunately we have the ability to exist either carnivorously or as vegetarians and, most likely due to physical merits, males became hunters and females became gatherers.
As society grew we became farmers. This allowed the feeding of large populations and reduced the need to hunt. Men became the "bread winners" while women continued to gather (shop), rear children and handle domestic duties just as they had.
Farming grew to include both potions of our diets; meat and vegetables/fruits. We farm all types of animals to feed the worlds population; cows, pigs, chicken, turkey, fish, etc. Thank God for farmers! I like meat and don't have time to hunt for my own.
As farming grew the instinct to hunt remained. You can easily see this any day in your office, at home or walking down the street. Have you ever wondered why women walk so loudly while men don't? The instinctive gatherer in women taught them to make noise to scare predators away while the instinct to hunt in men taught them to remain as quiet as possible.
Some people made the transition from hunter to worker easily. In others the instinct to hunt remained strong. Some hunt to supplement other food sources, or to provide foods which aren't readily available commercially. Others hunt strictly for sport. Some hunt for sport veiled by the use of the animal they hunted.
I grew up in far northern MN where hunting was practiced by most males beginning at an early age. I remember seeing pictures of big game hunters in Africa with their kills. They were glorified. I saw a lot more pictures of locals with theirs; deer, bear, fish, partridge, etc. Growing up, every lodge was adorned with deer heads, racks and mounted fish (they still are). Back then there were a lot of animals in the world and not much regulation. I remember killing a couple of innocent animals at about 8 years old with my .22 (which I still have). I felt so bad I gave up hunting but don't blame anyone else for their enjoyment of the sport. Fishing never bothered me nor did seeing the mounted heads at the lodge.
Bow hunting is taking it to a whole other level. My oldest brother was an avid, if unsuccessful, deer bow hunter. Just before hunting season started we'd have deer all over the open fields around my parent's home. I used to be able to get the fawns to come lick salt out of my hand. A few days before deer hunting season opened all the deer would disappear. Animals have instincts and they aren't dumb.
So I see this story about a big game hunter in Africa who evidently paid his money to hunt a lion with a bow and arrow claiming he thought everything about the hunt was legal and proper. I see the clips of people protesting outside his business. I can even sympathize a little with the woman lamenting that the money she's paid him went to support this activity, although I suppose if she tracked every dollar she spent and where it ended up she'd be much more distraught.
Next I see he had a felony charge for killing a bear in WI outside the regulated hunting zone, which combined with the charge of luring this particular lion off the preserve begins to illustrate a pattern of offense. If this was a collared animal that only makes things worse. Today I see that Zimbabwe has initiated extradition while at the same time seeing that the local parties involved were released on $1000 bail.
I don't have any problem with this guy wanting to go big game hunting. I do have a problem if he wittingly did something outside the law and his background points to the possibility, although once this story reached the level it did every bit of dirt that can be uncovered on this guy will be and none of what he's ever done positive will be. I don't have a problem with his clients deciding to move their business but I do have a problem with false accusations and threats. I do have a problem with him being forced out of business before all the facts are on the table and the issue has been decided legally, not because of his livelihood, but because of the livelihoods of his employees.
A story? Sure. An international flashpoint? Give me a break. It's one man who may be a bit unscrupulous and one lion who was evidently beloved because he was old.
This has been blown WAY out of proportion.
Lots of paragraphs.....
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: SysError on August 01, 2015, 07:24:59 AM
I say we clone the lions and let them use California as a lion preserve. Then the people that like to hug these cute little animals can enjoy that practice personally.
perfect society then,, the woman gathers the food for her man!
Oh wait,, the feminista's find out about this and the males lions are all doomed! Women's rights and all! The dentist will now be hailed as a hero for women's rights!
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Hajo on August 01, 2015, 10:43:08 PM
You are all thinking and commenting on what the Media wishes you to.
What's next? I'll bet it's something that will bring advertising bucks!
I don't understand why the Media drives us instead of common sense. GET SUM! (common sense)
Believe me...........there are more important things in this world.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Rich46yo on August 01, 2015, 11:05:05 PM
Any Lion will kill when they see a chance for a meal. Anytime. They will gladly hunt down and eat you.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Aspen on August 02, 2015, 01:09:11 AM
Male lions do plenty of killing. They commonly kill other predators and seem especially fond of killing hyenas. They kill other males, they often kill cubs when they takeover a pride and they kill for food. A male with a pride is happy to let the females do the bulk of the hunting.
Its not unlikely that the Cecil killed the existing cubs when he took over the pride. Not uncommon for the mother to eat the dead cubs.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Muzzy on August 02, 2015, 02:04:23 AM
Male lions do plenty of killing. They commonly kill other predators and seem especially fond of killing hyenas. They kill other males, they often kill cubs when they takeover a pride and they kill for food. A male with a pride is happy to let the females do the bulk of the hunting.
Its not unlikely that the Cecil killed the existing cubs when he took over the pride. Not uncommon for the mother to eat the dead cubs.
According to the researcher who worked with him for 9 years, Cecil was displaced from his territory and eventually teamed up with Jericho to manage two prides of lionesses. The problem is that if you kill off the male lion, you expose the females and their cubs to predation from other males. There's a possibility that Jericho may be dead as well, but if not, he might not be able to hold both prides by himself, which means upwards of a dozen of their mates and offspring may be displaced or outright killed.
Whatever the internet has made of it, the simple question at hand is whether or not this type of hunting is acceptable, and whether or not it should be stopped. All the rest of it...the death threats from the left, the name-calling from the right, is political BS.
And the argument that lions are hunters and killers is BS as well. We know what they are and what they do...they're animals that are dangerous if not given the proper respect. That doesn't justify wiping out the species, or anything that Palmer and his associates have done. If what they did was illegal, they should be prosecuted. End of story.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Zimme83 on August 02, 2015, 02:53:36 AM
It is not OK anywere to have an animal to suffer for 40 hours before u finally kill it. If u are going to hunt and kill an animal u must make sure that it dies quickly. If u cannot do that u should not shoot.
It seems to me that he said "i want to kill Cesil, here is a lot of money, make it happen". I hardly belive that it was a coincident that it was this individual lion he killed. That kind of "hunting" has nothing to do with real hunt. It is not uncommon with rich people that pays to kill a trophy, often a trophy that is placed infront of their rifle. Hunting is not about killing animals, its more about making sure u have a strong population that can live on for a long time. That mean u cannot just shoot whatever animal that shows up, it means that you leave the important individuals, like strong males and females w kids so that the population can grow stronger. In case of lions it seems like a bad idea to kill an alpha male like this, it has a huge impact on the rest of the pack. If u absolutley want to kill a male lion, go after the ones without a pack.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Muzzy on August 02, 2015, 03:19:38 AM
I'm willing to bet that the individuals who organized the hunt got all the right permits but set their lure too close to the preserve, attempting to justify the kill by saying it wasn't on the preserve itself. I would expect that there were lions outside the preserve that would have been legal for them to kill, but they simply set up where they knew the lions were, and didn't bother to check how close they were to the preserve or whether the lion in question had been collared. I'll also bet they've done this kind of thing before and simply haven't been caught. So no, I don't think they deliberately targeted Cecil, but they did bend the rules in order to get their client a kill.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on August 02, 2015, 03:57:56 AM
Do think dentist boy will do my teeth cut price since he will need the coin?
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Muzzy on August 02, 2015, 04:15:42 AM
Do think dentist boy will do my teeth cut price since he will need the coin?
Lawyers don't come cheap. Also, you might end up like this:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Rich46yo on August 02, 2015, 08:31:24 AM
There is no way this hunt happened without the corrupt moronic Govt. of Zimbabwe allowing it. Somewhere there was one of Mugabe's cronies making money off of this Lion hunt. So why would anyone want to see an American prosecuted by such a vicious corrupt Govt.? What would be his chances for a fair trial?
Of course now they are now screaming bloody murder cause they got caught. But here is one example of Mad Bobs wild life conservation http://www.radiodialogue.com/concern-slaughter-wild-animals-mugabe-bash/ This guy is another Idi Amin, I wont post links about his atrocities, you can look them up yourself, but nobody kills a Lion in Zim without paying their dime to Mad Bob.
You all are blaming a Dentist when an entire wildlife haven has been decimated by another lunatic Africa Dictator. Let alone the human price, which is estimated at 300,000 slaughtered, millions displaced and an entire economy in ruins.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on August 02, 2015, 08:38:22 AM
I think he s misunderstood :old:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 02, 2015, 10:05:04 AM
He should be prosecuted plain and simple, and all the other crap he's getting, hey you shouldn't have done what you did, now it's time to pay the piper. Some people feel that strongly about killing Cecil. Do I personally feel that strongly, no, there are people being killed everyday, that is what I'm mostly concerned with, I don't have the energy to be mr. planet... but some people do, and frankly I don't have much sympathy for the dentist when he was in the wrong from the beginning.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 02, 2015, 10:16:58 AM
This planet is so effed up it's not even funny anymore.. human population growth is exploding out of hand.... we have more industrialization and trash everyday that just piles up polluting everything.. now its the killing of the animals... pretty soon all we'll have is dogs cats and cattle etc. on this planet... I'd like to know who were the great minds that guided us to this level... AND MY ELECTRIC BILL IS THROUGH THE ROOF DUE TO GLOBAL WARMING!! (ok I can be Mr. Planetish sometimes)
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: WWhiskey on August 02, 2015, 11:59:24 AM
It's OK. He's from Sweden. They think they know everything. They might even give Cecil a posthumous Nobel peace prize. :O
Of course i know everything. Lionesses do the bulk of the hunt while the males stay with the cubs. But male lions do participate in the hunt on some occasions, for example when the prey is very large. Like a buffalo...
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Meatwad on August 02, 2015, 01:49:16 PM
Cecil would still be alive today if he would of just stood up and did the dance that Alex the lion did in the Madagascar movie :bolt:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on August 02, 2015, 01:57:56 PM
Yes he does. I dont think he's ignorant.....I think it's a comprehension issue. A few pages back he thought I typed that it's ok to kill people......
I might had an extra beer during that typing... sorry if I said something out of order.. I just reread what you typed it's still confused in it's main point and ideas
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 02, 2015, 02:23:26 PM
guncrasher was getting to the point about killing living things while you were sidestepping it and saying he made no sense
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 02, 2015, 02:30:15 PM
go ahead if you want your witch hunt go and get it, it's not going to hunt itself - no pun intended
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Muzzy on August 02, 2015, 02:47:07 PM
From now on if we get into a heated argument about HQ going down or how <insert Skyrr-or-skyrrish-pilot-here> is a jerk, or how the Brew is overmodeled or some nonsense like that, I'm going to say "Geez, it's not like someone killed a lion or anything." I know I've been pretty vocal here as well, but I think we can put this one to bed guys.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Rich46yo on August 02, 2015, 04:51:44 PM
I think Cecil was also getting lured to the Liberal photog's cameras with cheeseburgers. Why else would a lazy Lion stand up and pose?
I bet the same Ministry Director who made big cash off the whacking of Cecil, and who was the same one making cash off the baiting for camera's, is now the same one calling for the tooth pullers extradition. And laughing like hell at all the stupid westerner's while doing it. Sweet Jesus but people are gullible. As long as you tell them something they want to hear they will buy it every time.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on August 02, 2015, 05:01:04 PM
I think Cecil was also getting lured to the Liberal photog's cameras with cheeseburgers. Why else would a lazy Lion stand up and pose?
I bet the same Ministry Director who made big cash off the whacking of Cecil, and who was the same one making cash off the baiting for camera's, is now the same one calling for the tooth pullers extradition. And laughing like hell at all the stupid westerner's while doing it. Sweet Jesus but people are gullible. As long as you tell them something they want to hear they will buy it every time.
Well put and sadly I think your dead on
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 02, 2015, 05:12:09 PM
If the hunter was not aware of the lawbreaking going on that's one thing, but if he knew then he should be prosecuted, that is the question... the legal system can be scarey, especially be careful when in another country..
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Rich46yo on August 02, 2015, 05:57:27 PM
Yeah for many years Mad Bob gave his supporters white owned farms, after he kicked the owners out of the country, and the new "owners" instead of "farming" would instead sell off the wild life to the highest bidder. Most of all Elephants, rhino's, and Lions. Farming took to much work and you can poach animals with little effort. So they kept on a few mouthpieces to be the media face of Zim conservation and laughed their arses off as they filled Swiss bank accounts with $$ from anything that bled.
Mugabe's bunch was kinda like the Mafia. They stuck together and prospered together for many years while feeding actual reformers to the crocodiles. Meanwhile the children of Zimbabwe starved and died. I mean who cares right? They kicked out the evil white people who were relics of the evil history of Euro empire in Africa. This played well with the left, whom Mugabe is a hero to. Children dieing be damned.
I know politics are not allowed but if this entire insane Zim "Cecil" story sheds light on the suffering of the people there, and the criminality of the Govt.'s who allow it, then maybe "Cecil" didnt die in vain.
Its still moronic to name a Lion. Wild animals should be allowed to live wild and free and if it takes sport hunting to ensure such a thing "and it does" then sport hunting should be encouraged. A poacher is a criminal, "assuming the country it happens in makes the distinction". Im afraid Zimbabwe doesnt. Back when it was Rhodesia it did, and back then the children were fed. It was a prosperous country.
Now its a crap hole. And a dentist is being blamed cause blaming a Dentist doesnt make you a crocodile snack in some nameless hole.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Estes on August 02, 2015, 10:06:59 PM
Thank you for your concern about my day, it was actually pretty good. It didn't take any of my bravery to say that, I just call them like I see them.
you must be mad about the bruce jenner postings cuz you look like him, probably a trans woman
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 03, 2015, 07:08:40 AM
And your right it didn't take any of you bravery cuz you're the guy that posts something negative from the other side of the computer on a forum. Your just a typical anklehumper
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 03, 2015, 08:38:19 AM
And just for the record which posting got you upset to begin with... tell the truth.. was it all over Cait? Freakin bird brain
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Estes on August 03, 2015, 11:17:33 AM
I must be mad? I woke up today completely forgotten the fact that I had even posted in it and pop online and what do I see? You going on some weird tangent, spamming mutliple posts. :rofl
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 03, 2015, 11:20:53 AM
i know you must have a bad day i know it....
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Estes on August 03, 2015, 11:25:09 AM
Actually today has been a worse day, but don't let that give you the impression it's anything about you or any of kind of crap I read on the internet just dealing with work lawyers but I'm sure about anyone would feel the same after spending the morning listening to lawyers go on for hours. (Grins ducks and runs from oldman and any other sharks) :aok
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 03, 2015, 11:43:34 AM
doesn't compute your gay....
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: -ammo- on August 03, 2015, 12:02:39 PM
A: I dont agree with the situation, but some of you weepers need to put this in to perspective and jump off the bandwagon.... quick. Don't go off the deep end!
B: ISIS is beheading "enemies" of Islam and throwing gays off rooftops, Mexican drug cartels are doing similar atrocities....
C: Self titled "stoner Islamist jihadist" shoots up US military members. "Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner is a hero...
D: Planned Parenthood is selling chopped up baby parts for profit.... (Im pro choice, btw)
E: The US is taking a page right ot of Chamberlain's playbook and giving Iran nooks while backstabbing our Allies...
F: The license, fees, room/board, etc, to hunt the lion gave about $55,000 to the local economy when the local average income is about $235 a month... yeah, a MONTH. Think about that.
G: The "quartering" of a game animal is common. VERY common. I quarter and butcher deer, antelope, and elk for transport out of the field. A full grown lion is a big friggin animal. I would have quartered it too. This "beheading" happened well after it was dead. Let it be...just let it be. Dont make drama out of it.
REALITY.... learn it. There are many other things to weep about.
If in fact this "hunter" lured the lion off the game preserve then let the locals deal with it. By having Cecil gone, younger lions will be able to step up and mature and take his place. Just like the movie "Lion King". So stop your crying.
Now back to your regular scheduled cartoons.....
You are my new BBS hero - TY for speaking the truth when it appears to be an anomaly nowadays.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Oldman731 on August 03, 2015, 12:07:10 PM
Actually today has been a worse day, but don't let that give you the impression it's anything about you or any of kind of crap I read on the internet just dealing with work lawyers but I'm sure about anyone would feel the same after spending the morning listening to lawyers go on for hours. (Grins ducks and runs from oldman and any other sharks)
Even lawyers hate listening to lawyers.
- oldman
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on August 03, 2015, 07:17:22 PM
Actually today has been a worse day, but don't let that give you the impression it's anything about you or any of kind of crap I read on the internet just dealing with work lawyers but I'm sure about anyone would feel the same after spending the morning listening to lawyers go on for hours. (Grins ducks and runs from oldman and any other sharks) :aok
Had to give a 5 hr deposition today, I feel your pain.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Ripsnort on August 03, 2015, 09:55:19 PM
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Meatwad on August 03, 2015, 10:11:05 PM
Guess the International Brotherhood of Lions shouldnt of gave up their dental plan for the free keg of beer at last years union contract meeting :bolt:
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on August 04, 2015, 01:39:46 AM
Here in the US we have bears and mountain lions. Since records were kept in the US, about 45 people killed by bears and 14 by mountain lions. In Africa the number killed by lions is 70-100 per year. In Tanzania the number has been rising since the middle 1990s.
Seems Cecil was so aggressive that he mauled another lion so badly the park rangers had to kill it.
Even Nelson Mandela promoted trophy hunting in SA to bring in investment.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on August 05, 2015, 05:55:14 PM
Can't wait for these people to see the results of banning hunting in Zimbabwe.
Poachers and bushmeat hunters are going to have a field day now that the hunters/gamekeepers are gone...and the money from hunters that is the major source of $$$ for the conservation of these animals has dried up.
But by all means, I'm sure the sales of Cecil Beanie Babies (yes they have them now) should go a long way to help.........
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: BuckShot on August 05, 2015, 06:58:12 PM
Can't wait for these people to see the results of banning hunting in Zimbabwe.
Poachers and bushmeat hunters are going to have a field day now that the hunters/gamekeepers are gone...and the money from hunters that is the major source of $$$ for the conservation of these animals has dried up.
Or... The corrupt Zim government will have to hire wardens to go out and cull lions. If you're rich enough, the corrupt wardens will let you go with them and take a shot.
No change... It will be worse.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on August 06, 2015, 01:24:36 AM
Shooting Giraffes.... :old:
:rofl
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Ratsy on August 06, 2015, 08:40:14 AM
Shooting BADGERS!
Shooting poachers? There's an idea. Let's see how Dr. Poacher copes with extradition proceedings.
:salute
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: PR3D4TOR on August 06, 2015, 08:47:57 AM
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: craz07 on August 06, 2015, 12:15:32 PM
because she's tattoed up to her neck and holdin what looks to be .50 caliber rifle to shoot poachers... she's not your typical
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Skuzzy on August 06, 2015, 12:23:05 PM
I was going to say. Any woman I have ever met, who was inked up like that had severe issues, ranging from extreme insecurities to being a psychopath and every thing in between. Personally, I am grateful they get inked up. It's like a ginormous billboard screaming, "I'm messed up! Come get some!"
At least, that has been my life experience, so far.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on August 06, 2015, 01:01:50 PM
You have some history you need to discuss :)
we are all ears :)
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Meatwad on August 06, 2015, 01:06:08 PM
I was going to say. Any woman I have ever met, who was inked up like that had severe issues, ranging from extreme insecurities to being a psychopath and every thing in between. Personally, I am grateful they get inked up. It's like a ginormous billboard screaming, "I'm messed up! Come get some!"
At least, that has been my life experience, so far.
Yeah ink'ed woman tend to like to get their freak on. Not that its exclusive tho. Had I a daughter that got inked like that I'd probably get very angry.
Back to this stupid Lion. Kenya banned sport hunting back in the late '70s and the result was over 70% of their wild life populations were destroyed. Including much of the habitat. Biggest hit were the big 5, rhino, elephant, Lion, leopard, Buffalo. What happened is the family of the "King" or whatever they called their Dictator at the time ran their own poaching ring and devastated the game populations.
What had once been a fine conservation Dept. became inept, much smaller, and corrupt. What had been a Jewel of African wild life turned into a typical 3rd world crap hole. I guess poaching the animals paid a whole lot better then driving around the camera clickers. Not that I have anything against eco-tourism but it cant generate the kind of moneys that sport hunting does. It would really be a disaster if the western Disney crowd began to dictate how Africa's wild life is managed.
Take the cheetah for example. A Beautiful animal, I have no interest in taking one but many hunters do and for about $4 or $5 K a cat. Well Walts crowd got cute and got a Law passed prohibiting the import of cheetah hides into America so Yank Hunters, Africa sport huntings biggest customers, stopped asking to take cheetahs. So cheetah numbers skyrocketed, most of all in RSA.
Now the cheetah will kill a small antelope every day because it eats only fresh meat and will take just a small portion of the shoulder area of its kill. Now you can imagine the kind of impact a lot of cheetahs will have on a landowners blesbuck, impala, daiker, gazelle herds. Most of all during berthing season. These are handsome trophys that also provide wonderful meat the land owner sells for $400 and up to the hunter.
So the result of this ban on hide imports was that land owners would exterminate cheetahs like vermin because the cheetah was taking food out of their mouths. Now had the Looney Tunes crowd not gotten that stupid law passed the cheetah would have had value to the land owners and it would have been protected and encouraged to occupy the habitat because the lawful taking of "some" would have ensured the survival of the species.
Not only is it idiotic to anthropomorphize wild animals its very often very dangerous to their over all survival.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: WWhiskey on August 06, 2015, 01:53:49 PM
I wonder how many poachers she's shot? :bhead
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: PR3D4TOR on August 06, 2015, 02:57:57 PM
I was going to say. Any woman I have ever met, who was inked up like that had severe issues, ranging from extreme insecurities to being a psychopath and every thing in between. Personally, I am grateful they get inked up. It's like a ginormous billboard screaming, "I'm messed up! Come get some!"
At least, that has been my life experience, so far.
:lol :rofl Mind the ban hammer.....oh wait
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: PR3D4TOR on August 06, 2015, 03:43:27 PM
She's not the only one hunting poachers. It's a war over there.
And she's not the only American either.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: WWhiskey on August 06, 2015, 07:20:11 PM
She's not the only one hunting poachers. It's a war over there.
And she's not the only American either.
I bet they are just shooting people right and left!
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: PR3D4TOR on August 06, 2015, 07:32:55 PM
"Worldwide, about two rangers are killed every week," says Sean Willmore, president of the International Ranger Federation and founder of the Thin Green Line Foundation, a charity that trains rangers and supports the widows of those killed in the line of duty. "But that's only partial data," he adds. "It could be double that amount."
I was going to say. Any woman I have ever met, who was inked up like that had severe issues, ranging from extreme insecurities to being a psychopath and every thing in between. Personally, I am grateful they get inked up. It's like a ginormous billboard screaming, "I'm messed up! Come get some!"
At least, that has been my life experience, so far.
because this is your house and board....I will show respect and just say
I strongly disagree with you.....
there is an old saying you may have heard of it...."don't judge a book by its cover"
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: zack1234 on August 07, 2015, 05:20:17 PM
Have you ever spelt a tattoo wrong ink?
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: mbailey on August 07, 2015, 05:29:27 PM
because this is your house and board....I will show respect and just say
I strongly disagree with you.....
there is an old saying you may have heard of it...."don't judge a book by its cover"
Agreed, my sister has a bunch of tats, ( like a whole bunch) and she's an Orthopedic surgeon. Very normal childhood, healthy marriage and 3 great kids. Just loves body art.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: MiloMorai on August 07, 2015, 05:33:14 PM
With the killing of Cecil, the local tourist industry, and related industries, lost an asset that brought in more money annually than the $50K the dentist paid.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Scherf on August 07, 2015, 08:39:28 PM
But think of the cost - without trophy hunting, the average unfortunate Zim's income would go from $235 to ... $234.32. Assuming, that is, that the average unfortunate Zim sees anything at all from hunting.
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: Skyyr on August 07, 2015, 08:41:49 PM
Agreed, my sister has a bunch of tats, ( like a whole bunch) and she's an Orthopedic surgeon. Very normal childhood, healthy marriage and 3 great kids. Just loves body art.
I've got a whole bunch of tats, I'm mostly normal. :)
Title: Re: Cecil killed with a bow and arrow
Post by: BaldEagl on August 08, 2015, 12:44:12 AM
Send the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo after them.
BTW the Swedish trilogy was awesome if you haven't seen it.