Post by: caldera on October 10, 2015, 12:07:38 PM
Top fighter (most kills in) per Late War Tour ....
P-51D - 99 tours - 33-35, 83-85, 89-95, 97, 102-116, 121-189
Spit IX - 34 tours - 1-7, 16, 21-28, 31-32, 36-51
La-7 - 24 tours - 52, 54-69, 73-74, 77-80, 96
Spit XVI - 13 tours - 70-72, 75-76, 98-101, 117-120
N1K2-J - 11 tours - 17-20, 29, 53, 81-82, 86-88
F4U-1C - 8 tours - 8-15
- The C-hog was unperked at the time it was #1.
- As for the Spit IX, the plane set was much smaller than today and perhaps the player mindset was more about TnB than BnZ.
- IIRC, there were some adjustments made to the La-7's flight model, which might explain it's deterioration in popularity.
- Player numbers have risen and fallen and the predominant trend in recent memory is the popularity of faster planes over the turners.
Post by: BaldEagl on October 10, 2015, 06:18:06 PM
Spit IX - 34 tours - 1-7, 16, 21-28, 31-32, 36-51
- As for the Spit IX, the plane set was much smaller than today and perhaps the player mindset was more about TnB than BnZ.
The IX back then was more of a hybrid of todays IX and XVI and was among the best of the Spits. It had the .50 cal gun package and IIRC ran one of the lower alt engines. It and the V both got nerfed when the XVI came along.
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on October 10, 2015, 08:14:58 PM
Post by: caldera on October 10, 2015, 08:42:57 PM
The IX back then was more of a hybrid of todays IX and XVI and was among the best of the Spits. It had the .50 cal gun package and IIRC ran one of the lower alt engines. It and the V both got nerfed when the XVI came along.
Interesting info. That explains a lot. :cheers:
Post by: Karnak on October 10, 2015, 11:18:06 PM
The IX back then was more of a hybrid of todays IX and XVI and was among the best of the Spits. It had the .50 cal gun package and IIRC ran one of the lower alt engines. It and the V both got nerfed when the XVI came along.This is false.
The Mk IX was always an F.Mk IX with the Merlin 61 engine. Its speeds are unchanged from the day it was introduced. The only changes that happened to it was the removal of the .50s, 250lb bombs and rockets as options.
Post by: BaldEagl on October 11, 2015, 12:17:31 AM
This is false.
The Mk IX was always an F.Mk IX with the Merlin 61 engine. Its speeds are unchanged from the day it was introduced. The only changes that happened to it was the removal of the .50s, 250lb bombs and rockets as options.
Back then the only plane I flew was the IX. When the XVI came along I switched to get the .50 cal package back so naturally the IX then felt nerfed. That's why I prefaced it with IIRC which evidently I didn't.
But thanks for trying to make me look more like a liar than a forgetful old man.
Post by: Karnak on October 11, 2015, 02:54:47 AM
Back then the only plane I flew was the IX. When the XVI came along I switched to get the .50 cal package back so naturally the IX then felt nerfed. That's why I prefaced it with IIRC which evidently I didn't.Almost all of the Spitfire's punch comes from cannons. The difference between two .50s and four .303s is minimal compared to the 20mm cannons.
But thanks for trying to make me look more like a liar than a forgetful old man.
The reason the Spitfire Mk IX felt nerfed is because the Spitfire Mk VIII and Mk XVI have so much more power at lower altitudes.
The Spitfire Mk V was nerfed so as to give AH a 1941 Spitfire Mk V.
Post by: FBKampfer on October 11, 2015, 01:27:50 PM
Most of these planes have overlapping time frames for top killer, which tells me that they're all right up there, and it's just fluctuations in popularity that push one plane or the other up to the top.
Post by: BaldEagl on October 11, 2015, 01:36:35 PM
Almost all of the Spitfire's punch comes from cannons. The difference between two .50s and four .303s is minimal compared to the 20mm cannons.
It's the ballistics match with the Hispanos that makes the .50's much more effective.
Post by: Masherbrum on October 11, 2015, 02:11:23 PM
Post by: caldera on October 11, 2015, 07:11:43 PM
I feel most of this is popularity related, not necessarily as in what the dominant ride is.
Most of these planes have overlapping time frames for top killer, which tells me that they're all right up there, and it's just fluctuations in popularity that push one plane or the other up to the top.
The same few planes have played musical chairs near the top for many years. That said, the P-51D usually had a large lead and has been right near the top on most occasions where it wasn't at the top. It's use has somewhat tapered off lately but not long ago, its kill count was greater than the #2 and #3 planes combined.
Check out Lusche's chart in this thread:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375286.msg4999587.html#msg4999587
It is a popular plane because it is a dominant plane.
Post by: Vinkman on October 12, 2015, 10:04:55 AM
- Player numbers have risen and fallen and the predominant trend in recent memory is the popularity of faster planes over the turners.
I choose a fast plane because with low players numbers, faster planes are required to force people to fight. Otherwise everyone runs from your Zero and there is no croud to force them in to action. :salute
I probably get 60% of my kills agains planes I had to chase down because they were running away, and those are mostly P-51s, Fw-190D9s, Corsairs, and Jugs. :salute
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 12, 2015, 10:26:23 AM
I died a bit more toward the end as my hands were shaky and my vision was going cross eyed but damn it was fun.
I think the P51 is one of the most deadly planes in the game. Most people who fly it timidly have no idea how to really fly the P51 and don't get aggressive enough.
KIlls, Shot down, Killed By, Times shot down.
(http://i.imgur.com/PYCSV5e.png)
Post by: earl1937 on October 12, 2015, 10:37:28 AM
Stats compiled from the AH plane stats page: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php:airplane: I very seldom fly fighters because of my eye situation, but recently I had the F4-C hog picked to fly a bomber hunt sortie! First thing I noticed was the lack of any climb performance and I had only a 150 galleon tank as extra load on the beast! Next thing I noticed was the amount of time it took to go from 150MPH IAS in climb, to 275 cruise speed when I leveled off. Even as I dove into the bomber formation, couldn't help but noticed the slow acceleration on the dive!
Top fighter (most kills in) per Late War Tour ....
P-51D - 99 tours - 33-35, 83-85, 89-95, 97, 102-116, 121-189
Spit IX - 34 tours - 1-7, 16, 21-28, 31-32, 36-51
La-7 - 24 tours - 52, 54-69, 73-74, 77-80, 96
Spit XVI - 13 tours - 70-72, 75-76, 98-101, 117-120
N1K2-J - 11 tours - 17-20, 29, 53, 81-82, 86-88
F4U-1C - 8 tours - 8-15
- The C-hog was unperked at the time it was #1.
- As for the Spit IX, the plane set was much smaller than today and perhaps the player mindset was more about TnB than BnZ.
- IIRC, there were some adjustments made to the La-7's flight model, which might explain it's deterioration in popularity.
- Player numbers have risen and fallen and the predominant trend in recent memory is the popularity of faster planes over the turners.
What is going on?? Have AH "neutered" the "C" hog? It didn't seemed to be that way last year when I flew it a couple of times.
And yes, I raised the flaps after takeoff as I should have!
Post by: Lusche on October 12, 2015, 10:43:35 AM
What is going on?? Have AH "neutered" the "C" hog? It didn't seemed to be that way last year when I flew it a couple of times.
Nothing had been changed with the C-hog or any other model.
Any change to any flight modeling would also require a major game update, which we also did not have for a long time... :old:
Post by: caldera on October 12, 2015, 03:42:21 PM
I did this yesterday. I may or may not have a life outside of AH.
I died a bit more toward the end as my hands were shaky and my vision was going cross eyed but damn it was fun.
I think the P51 is one of the most deadly planes in the game. Most people who fly it timidly have no idea how to really fly the P51 and don't get aggressive enough.
KIlls, Shot down, Killed By, Times shot down.
(http://i.imgur.com/PYCSV5e.png)
Since Tour 117, I have been flying as Snuggie. I flew the 51 for a just few days in only one tour. It was so easy and I am not even in your league.
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/e17039a8-ce79-44b2-9fdd-cb0dad80ea29.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/e17039a8-ce79-44b2-9fdd-cb0dad80ea29.jpg.html)
Post by: bozon on October 14, 2015, 07:40:56 AM
:airplane: I very seldom fly fighters because of my eye situation, but recently I had the F4-C hog picked to fly a bomber hunt sortie! First thing I noticed was the lack of any climb performance and I had only a 150 galleon tank as extra load on the beast! Next thing I noticed was the amount of time it took to go from 150MPH IAS in climb, to 275 cruise speed when I leveled off. Even as I dove into the bomber formation, couldn't help but noticed the slow acceleration on the dive!Raise the gears as well. It helps a lot.
What is going on?? Have AH "neutered" the "C" hog? It didn't seemed to be that way last year when I flew it a couple of times.
And yes, I raised the flaps after takeoff as I should have!
;)
Post by: TonyJoey on October 14, 2015, 12:50:37 PM
(http://s17.postimg.org/57xaptwdb/p51_2.png)
The 51 is a lot of fun in the MA.
Post by: earl1937 on October 15, 2015, 03:47:00 AM
Nothing had been changed with the C-hog or any other model.:airplane: As usual you got me to thinking! Maybe I am flying in the wrong arena, since things don't happen so fast in the EWA or even the MWA and maybe I would do better there.
Any change to any flight modeling would also require a major game update, which we also did not have for a long time... :old:
Can't seem to attract the number of pilots I used to, when posting missions, so maybe I need to move to something else!
Post by: earl1937 on October 15, 2015, 03:50:03 AM
Raise the gears as well. It helps a lot.:airplane: Thanks, but I think I have enough sense to raise the gear after takeoff! Its not the Aircraft, its me! Just getting to old to keep up with you young guys!
;)
Post by: Karnak on October 15, 2015, 08:50:05 AM
(http://s15.postimg.org/ba1pihqe3/p51.png)I find the 51 to be the most boring aircraft in the game. Fast enough to outrun most things, but with an acceleration so poor that in most people's hands it can't afford to mix it up much lest it lose its speed and be trapped in a melee that it cannot win due to its terrible turning abilities.
(http://s17.postimg.org/57xaptwdb/p51_2.png)
The 51 is a lot of fun in the MA.
There are some who can get beyond this and learn to be aggressive in it, but most are just painfully timid.
Post by: Hetzer7 on October 15, 2015, 11:28:06 AM
:airplane: Thanks, but I think I have enough sense to raise the gear after takeoff! Its not the Aircraft, its me! Just getting to old to keep up with you young guys!
I seem to recall recently you landed some very respectable fighter sorties, certainly better than I could have done <S> - Hetzer
Post by: Shuffler on October 18, 2015, 01:10:42 PM
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on October 18, 2015, 01:35:46 PM
Post by: JunkyII on October 18, 2015, 01:55:11 PM
(http://s15.postimg.org/ba1pihqe3/p51.png)Look at this one upper :aok
(http://s17.postimg.org/57xaptwdb/p51_2.png)
The 51 is a lot of fun in the MA.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 18, 2015, 03:47:38 PM
(http://s15.postimg.org/ba1pihqe3/p51.png)
(http://s17.postimg.org/57xaptwdb/p51_2.png)
The 51 is a lot of fun in the MA.
You are not allowed to fly the P51D anymore :old:
Post by: bozon on October 18, 2015, 09:04:17 PM
If seems to be a lot of yak 3s around lately.If it wasn't for the short clip, the arena would have been filled with them. It is a plane that fully exploit every weakness of the AH modeling.
Post by: glzsqd on October 18, 2015, 09:09:12 PM
Post by: mbailey on October 19, 2015, 06:21:49 AM
Post by: Shane on October 19, 2015, 07:20:21 PM
Stats compiled from the AH plane stats page: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php
Top fighter (most kills in) per Late War Tour ....
La-7 - 24 tours --------> 52, 54-69 <-------- 73-74, 77-80, 96
- IIRC, there were some adjustments made to the La-7's flight model, which might explain it's deterioration in popularity.
That was me doing my part in trying to get the la7 perked.
Post by: Oldman731 on October 20, 2015, 08:12:14 AM
That was me doing my part in trying to get the la7 perked.
Dude!
- oldman
Post by: Shane on October 21, 2015, 02:23:11 AM
Post by: Tumor on October 21, 2015, 02:49:45 AM
I find the 51 to be the most boring aircraft in the game. Fast enough to outrun most things, but with an acceleration so poor that in most people's hands it can't afford to mix it up much lest it lose its speed and be trapped in a melee that it cannot win due to its terrible turning abilities.
There are some who can get beyond this and learn to be aggressive in it, but most are just painfully timid.
The 51 takes time and patience, but it's record stands. I for one do not believe for a second that the thing is modeled anywhere near accurately (no... I don't give a flying flip the HiTech has flown one, perhaps that's WHY it's dumbed down). Timid is everyone's favorite adjective for the pony.... but the truth is, they simply want the Pony to give up it's particular advantage so they can have a chance at gunning it down. My answer as always is, you do your thing, I'll do mine. OR, tell ya what, next time you're in a Zeke, please fly straight and level for me, so I can get ya all easy like with my Pony. Otherwise, I shall ridicule you for being all turny burny and afraid to fight fast like real men do. :)
Post by: JunkyII on October 25, 2015, 02:16:28 AM
Post by: hitech on October 25, 2015, 09:31:36 AM
The 51 takes time and patience, but it's record stands. I for one do not believe for a second that the thing is modeled anywhere near accurately (no... I don't give a flying flip the HiTech has flown one, perhaps that's WHY it's dumbed down). Timid is everyone's favorite adjective for the pony.... but the truth is, they simply want the Pony to give up it's particular advantage so they can have a chance at gunning it down. My answer as always is, you do your thing, I'll do mine. OR, tell ya what, next time you're in a Zeke, please fly straight and level for me, so I can get ya all easy like with my Pony. Otherwise, I shall ridicule you for being all turny burny and afraid to fight fast like real men do. :)
This is a complete untruth.
Quote
but the truth is, they simply want the Pony to give up it's particular advantage so they can have a chance at gunning it down.We never modify a planes performance from what our best research show it should be.
And since you some how believe it has been, it would be very simple for you to test and prove this verses throwing baseless accusations.
HiTech
HiTech
Post by: Lusche on October 25, 2015, 09:36:53 AM
"but the truth is, they simply want the Pony to give up it's particular advantage so they can have a chance at gunning it down"
was directed towards other players who want the Pony driver to slow down to turn with them, not HTC
Post by: JunkyII on October 25, 2015, 11:49:35 AM
HT, I'd say this particular quoteHe still gave no reason to try to call HTC out on modeling of the plane...nothing about it's top speed, handling or anything
"but the truth is, they simply want the Pony to give up it's particular advantage so they can have a chance at gunning it down"
was directed towards other players who want the Pony driver to slow down to turn with them, not HTC
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 25, 2015, 03:27:36 PM
Post by: Shuffler on October 26, 2015, 05:21:58 PM
The 51 takes time and patience, but it's record stands. I for one do not believe for a second that the thing is modeled anywhere near accurately (no... I don't give a flying flip the HiTech has flown one, perhaps that's WHY it's dumbed down). Timid is everyone's favorite adjective for the pony.... but the truth is, they simply want the Pony to give up it's particular advantage so they can have a chance at gunning it down. My answer as always is, you do your thing, I'll do mine. OR, tell ya what, next time you're in a Zeke, please fly straight and level for me, so I can get ya all easy like with my Pony. Otherwise, I shall ridicule you for being all turny burny and afraid to fight fast like real men do. :)
The Pony is a very nice turning machine too. Has a real nice roll rate along with some real speed if you need it. Most who fly (in game) it have no idea how to really fly it.
I still prefer my 38J.
Post by: Karnak on October 26, 2015, 06:27:54 PM
The Pony is a very nice turning machine too. Has a real nice roll rate along with some real speed if you need it. Most who fly (in game) it have no idea how to really fly it.P-51D turns like utter crap. The Mosquito is a poor turner and it turns better than the P-51D.
I still prefer my 38J.
I don't blame any P-51 driver for not getting in a turn fight. I do blame them for not learning how to exploit their high energy retention and fight in the vertical. Really, the P-51D and Mossie handle surprisingly similar, P-51 rolls a lot better though, and I know how potent the Mossie is when aggressively BnZing. I see no reason the P-51D cannot do the same.
Post by: glzsqd on October 26, 2015, 06:32:52 PM
Post by: JunkyII on October 26, 2015, 06:54:44 PM
P-51D turns like utter crap. The Mosquito is a poor turner and it turns better than the P-51D.The 51 handles at high speed better then most planes...
I don't blame any P-51 driver for not getting in a turn fight. I do blame them for not learning how to exploit their high energy retention and fight in the vertical. Really, the P-51D and Mossie handle surprisingly similar, P-51 rolls a lot better though, and I know how potent the Mossie is when aggressively BnZing. I see no reason the P-51D cannot do the same.
Post by: Shuffler on October 26, 2015, 07:50:35 PM
P-51D turns like utter crap. The Mosquito is a poor turner and it turns better than the P-51D.YMMV
I don't blame any P-51 driver for not getting in a turn fight. I do blame them for not learning how to exploit their high energy retention and fight in the vertical. Really, the P-51D and Mossie handle surprisingly similar, P-51 rolls a lot better though, and I know how potent the Mossie is when aggressively BnZing. I see no reason the P-51D cannot do the same.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
Post by: Karnak on October 26, 2015, 08:21:16 PM
The 51 handles at high speed better then most planes...While this is definitely true, it isn't all that useful for aggressive BnZing.
YMMVI will grant that there are a lot of really bad P-51 drivers to encounter out there so the fact that I consistently out turned P-51Ds in the Mossie VI to the point that I actively sought them out does not necessarily mean that the Mossie turns better than the P-51D. In my experience it does though.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 26, 2015, 08:24:24 PM
Jug>pony
You wanna bet on that?
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 26, 2015, 08:35:12 PM
While this is definitely true, it isn't all that useful for aggressive BnZing.
I will grant that there are a lot of really bad P-51 drivers to encounter out there so the fact that I consistently out turned P-51Ds in the Mossie VI to the point that I actively sought them out does not necessarily mean that the Mossie turns better than the P-51D. In my experience it does though.
The mosquito, like most 2 engine planes, including the 110, have very quick lift vectors. After a loop, they can pull up very quickly and get inside the oponents loop for a shot. So while it could get inside the P51 for a shot, the P51 cpuld also most likely pull for rope, where the mosquito fails to get a shot in a slow spiral climb with its poor roll rate, then the P51 has the E advantage all day.
Quote from: Karnak
link=topic=375306.msg5003304#msg5003304 date=1445908876
link=topic=375306.msg5003304#msg5003304 date=1445908876
While this is definitely true, it isn't all that useful for aggressive BnZing.
No, but they are highly useful defending against higher alt cons who are diving on you. The flaps allow you to make sharper turns going fast and can therefore easily get planes to overshoot for a barrel roll defense.
Post by: Karnak on October 26, 2015, 08:45:57 PM
In my turning comparison I was speaking in the horizontal which a lot of P-51D drivers will do against the Mossie and, as I always found it made for an easy kill, I'd accept. Only a few fighters I'll willingly turn fight in the Mossie: Me410, P-51D, Tempest, Me262, Fw190s and P-47s.
Post by: Oldman731 on October 26, 2015, 09:18:55 PM
a fight between a Mossie VI and P-51D should go to the one that started with more E.
True of most match-ups.
- oldman
Post by: glzsqd on October 26, 2015, 09:44:27 PM
You wanna bet on that?
OH YEA!
Person who wins gets to post nudes!
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 26, 2015, 09:45:07 PM
A strictly vertical fight will be very even, at lower altitudes, as the Mossie has the same climb rate/acceleration as the P-51D. I've never had any trouble staying on top of a P-51 when I start with the E advantage. P-51 won't be roping a Mossie VI unless it started with a lot more E, and due to the Mossie's center mounted cannons that could be a dodgy tactic. A sustained spiral climb will favor the P-51, but if you've gotten into a situation where you're using that tactic you've already failed at the aggressive BnZing tactic. Players being even, a fight between a Mossie VI and P-51D should go to the one that started with more E. Just hammer the E out of the guy with less E and then kill him. Neither plane builds E fast enough to avoid that when being forced to bleed E in order to dodge.
In my turning comparison I was speaking in the horizontal which a lot of P-51D drivers will do against the Mossie and, as I always found it made for an easy kill, I'd accept. Only a few fighters I'll willingly turn fight in the Mossie: Me410, P-51D, Tempest, Me262, Fw190s and P-47s.
A mossie that is diving all over you is tough to avoid. It takes experienced defensive tactics to avoid the shots. Really and truely the P51 could run away from the mossy if the E equals out during a cross over, which would allow the P51 to escape the fight. The Mossie actually does turn quite well and can catch many inexperienced pilots off guard in a turn fight. I do however believe that in a DA fight 1v1 the P51 would win most of the time on the merge, but would lose in the roll overs if the fight got slow. The P51 is a much better diver and the flaps allow it to take advantage of planes at high speeds. The P51 is much more balanced and easier to fly. The mossie is more of an advanced plane. While it could possibly win a few turn fights 1v1, it is simply much more difficult to be successful in and doesn't hold E nearly as well after a dive. The P51 is a F16 as a mossie is to A10 warthog with an incredible lift vector.
Post by: Karnak on October 26, 2015, 10:13:41 PM
Running, well, the 51D has a 10mph advantage on the deck, but if you use your .303s you can keep him slower than you pretty frequently, then run him down as soon as he has to climb. I've done that on a number of occasions. 10mph is useful, but not enough if you don't have much distance at the start.
Post by: JunkyII on October 26, 2015, 10:48:07 PM
But to say the P51 isn't the better plane at BnZ is just crazy. Only "advantage" the Mossie has is the ability to look over the nose. Has more guns but the 6 50 setup aint a bad thing.
Post by: Karnak on October 26, 2015, 11:54:18 PM
The mossie could hang with a P51 in a duel situation...no doubt.In an aggressive BnZ at low altitudes they are practically the same. In the "make a pass and run away" BnZ the P-51 is certainly superior. The P-51 is also completely superior at higher altitudes.
But to say the P51 isn't the better plane at BnZ is just crazy. Only "advantage" the Mossie has is the ability to look over the nose. Has more guns but the 6 50 setup aint a bad thing.
Post by: JunkyII on October 27, 2015, 02:12:14 AM
In an aggressive BnZ at low altitudes they are practically the same. In the "make a pass and run away" BnZ the P-51 is certainly superior. The P-51 is also completely superior at higher altitudes.P51 can drop flaps at almost any speed, this is huge in the MA, you can saddle up on even some of the most veteran of sticks pretty easily. I would agree they are similar bit I don't think the P51 is under modeled because of it...Mossy was know for its low altitude operations.
Post by: save on October 27, 2015, 08:12:22 AM
Post by: Karnak on October 27, 2015, 11:31:26 AM
P51 can drop flaps at almost any speed, this is huge in the MA, you can saddle up on even some of the most veteran of sticks pretty easily. I would agree they are similar bit I don't think the P51 is under modeled because of it...Mossy was know for its low altitude operations.It is true that the P-51's flaps can be deployed at higher speeds, but for the way I aggressively BnZ that isn't useful. I wouldn't want to use flaps at the bottom as I am not going for a shooting angle there and flaps would bleed more E out. I do use flaps coming over the top, but anything can deploy them at that point.
Did they not have a high altitude version of the Mossie fighter ?Yes, the NF.Mk.30, which I would love to have in AH. Top speeds reported from 416mph to 424mph at 27,000ft.
Post by: bozon on October 27, 2015, 01:43:00 PM
Did they not have a high altitude version of the Mossie fighter ?The night Fighter versions were optimized for operating at 20k or slightly higher because that is where the German bombers were operating. The 1943+ NF versions could do better than 400 mph up there. The NF.30 was the best high alt Fighter mossie and near war's end was even used as day escort to bombers. It was a rare operation and I don't think they ever met the LW in that role.
Our mossie FB.VI being the fighter-bomber version, was optimised for operations under 10k, but still kept a two speed charger so its performance did not drop off so bad up to 22k. Our bomber B.XVI is faster than the FB.VI starting from about 7k.
From my experience, I'd say that with competent players, the mossie and p51 are about equal, each has its little specific advantages though.
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on October 27, 2015, 02:20:54 PM
Post by: Scherf on October 27, 2015, 10:54:19 PM
Yums.
Post by: TonyJoey on October 28, 2015, 01:57:01 AM
Post by: save on October 28, 2015, 05:30:54 AM
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,369327.0.html
The mossie only needs a hint of a snapshot to down the pony due to canons being howitzers in Aces High. That will win a fight over E. Case closed. :D
Post by: Squire on October 28, 2015, 05:42:22 AM
Quote
Against Yak3's , Hispanos are close to useless
With respect.
Bull****.
;)
Post by: save on October 28, 2015, 09:26:32 AM
respectfully
save
Post by: JunkyII on October 28, 2015, 12:48:02 PM
With many other facets of performance being similar, the high speed flaps of the Pony will get you inside a Mossie's turn in a duel. It wouldn't even be a close fight in my opinion for that simple fact. Once you have that little bit of an edge there is not much the Mossie can do to escape. When fighting most of the other plane set, if you choose to go for angles on the merge, you had better saddle up or convert quickly because once the fight gets slow the 51 is not nearly as effective as it tends to wallow, especially in a scissors. However, against a Mossie, the 51 is just as good if not better at slower speeds so the initial angles advantage would be decisive.My thoughts exactly, just put into text a lot better :aok
Post by: Tumor on October 28, 2015, 01:39:08 PM
HT, I'd say this particular quote
"but the truth is, they simply want the Pony to give up it's particular advantage so they can have a chance at gunning it down"
was directed towards other players who want the Pony driver to slow down to turn with them, not HTC
You would be correct.
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 28, 2015, 04:11:44 PM
so do you think 21 20 mm hispano hits to kill a Yak3 is BS, or what is ?
respectfully
save
It doesn't take that many 20mm rounds to take down a Yak 3, if you find that it does then the problem isn't with the 20mm cannon, it's the crappy aim of the pilot.
Post by: Scherf on October 28, 2015, 05:31:07 PM
Post by: BaldEagl on October 28, 2015, 05:56:35 PM
Um, that post has pics of all the hits - as in, aim was not crappy, aim caused couple dozen hits before the Yak went down.
Yaks are tough planes. I was fighting in a Yak 9 once in a me on multi. I got hit so many times I had oil and radiator leaks, and was missing a cannon, an elevator and a wingtip and was still fighting. I think I got another one or two in that state and IIRC I eventually exited safely.
Post by: JunkyII on October 28, 2015, 07:50:00 PM
Post by: save on October 29, 2015, 03:33:57 AM
Post by: bozon on October 29, 2015, 06:43:35 AM
The film , from where the pictures in link have been extracted, has been sent to HTC.Not exactly.
Another film has been sent to HTC where a yak3 lost its engine to a P51 in a HO, continued to fight as a glider and took a load of Hispano from a mossie with no parts falling off of it, dived into his acks across the field, made a flat 270 degrees turn at zero alt, during which it was hit by a 190A5, and proceeded to land safely at his base.
It was when the yak3 was still new and I was still shocked by its resistance to cannons. I stopped collecting these films.
Post by: Squire on October 29, 2015, 03:33:50 PM
The rest is urban myth, one-off engagements (with film! omg!) :rolleyes: poor aim, bruised egos, echo chamber logic and skewered assumptions such as "its not my ride so there could be something wrong with it".
...been flying Yaks for a long time...been shooting Yaks for a long time...been dying in Yaks for a long time.
So I say again. Absolute, unmitigated, B.S.
:salute
Post by: JunkyII on October 29, 2015, 05:00:56 PM
Fly it and see. It does not take any more damage than a Yak-9T, or a Yak-9U or Yak-7.It's a noticeable difference between the Yak3 and all other yaks. In game I would consider the Yak3 the toughest fighter in the game...even over the hell at and other tough birds...but I'm not sure if historically it was...
The rest is urban myth, one-off engagements (with film! omg!) :rolleyes: poor aim, bruised egos, echo chamber logic and skewered assumptions such as "its not my ride so there could be something wrong with it".
...been flying Yaks for a long time...been shooting Yaks for a long time...been dying in Yaks for a long time.
So I say again. Absolute, unmitigated, B.S.
:salute
Post by: Vinkman on November 04, 2015, 01:01:02 PM
Stats compiled from the AH plane stats page: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php
Top fighter (most kills in) per Late War Tour ....
P-51D - 99 tours - 33-35, 83-85, 89-95, 97, 102-116, 121-189
all this talk of Pony superiority or lack thereof. Doesn't this just mean that the pony is the most flown plane? This wasn't kills per sortie or K/D was it? Just said the most kills.
Post by: bustr on November 04, 2015, 01:37:21 PM
1. - The small size requires precise aiming.
2. - Dead 6 shooting eventually gains fuel leaks and maybe a radiator hit and possibly a wing or tail surface. Or just pour it on for a kill.
3. - Deflection shooting is either a one shot kill of the pilot or, pour it on watching parts fall off until it goes down.
4. - Snap shooting 90 off is very hit or miss. The tiny profile requires perfect timing to achieve an oil hit or killing of the pilot.
5. - The MK108 is hard to be precise with and there were a few moments I couldn't believe nothing happened when I hit the Yak 3. A second hit usually finished the job. The 262's 4 MK108 never had problems when I could hit the Yak 3.
Knowing all of the above now, and online with connection inconsistencies and other conditions in play. The Yak 3 is just very hard to hit online.
The Ki-43 and I16 being about the same size are much easier to destroy under all of those conditions and online. So can we get them upgraded to be like the Yak 3....... :O
Post by: HL117 on November 05, 2015, 07:34:08 AM
so do you think 21 20 mm hispano hits to kill a Yak3 is BS, or what is ?
respectfully
save
Yak-3 fun bird to fly, tough bird, hardly think a oneoff instance is a good measurement in its resistance to fire, do a live fire test 5 - 10 times, show us the results.
Placed a bunch of Yak 3 in the drone circle. Shot at them with many different fighters.
1. - The small size requires precise aiming.
2. - Dead 6 shooting eventually gains fuel leaks and maybe a radiator hit and possibly a wing or tail surface. Or just pour it on for a kill.
3. - Deflection shooting is either a one shot kill of the pilot or, pour it on watching parts fall off until it goes down.
4. - Snap shooting 90 off is very hit or miss. The tiny profile requires perfect timing to achieve an oil hit or killing of the pilot.
5. - The MK108 is hard to be precise with and there were a few moments I couldn't believe nothing happened when I hit the Yak 3. A second hit usually finished the job. The 262's 4 MK108 never had problems when I could hit the Yak 3.
Knowing all of the above now, and online with connection inconsistencies and other conditions in play. The Yak 3 is just very hard to hit online.
The Ki-43 and I16 being about the same size are much easier to destroy under all of those conditions and online. So can we get them upgraded to be like the Yak 3....... :O
I think a better comparision would be an Yak-7 or a LA-7 similar in size design and shape, KI43 wingspan is 5' longer, profile view is taller, wing area is 230ft^2 in the Ki43 and 157ft^2 in the Yak. big difference there, I16 no one hardly flys it did not bother to look up its specs.
Post by: bozon on November 05, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
Yak-3 fun bird to fly, tough bird, hardly think a oneoff instance is a good measurement in its resistance to fire, do a live fire test 5 - 10 times, show us the results.There are many instances including many on ahf films.
Quote
I think a better comparision would be an Yak-7 or a LA-7 similar in size design and shape, KI43 wingspan is 5' longer, profile view is taller, wing area is 230ft^2 in the Ki43 and 157ft^2 in the Yak.Wing area of 157 sq. feet is just 2 sq. feet more than ONE wing of the F6F...
Post by: bustr on November 05, 2015, 01:33:02 PM
He don't fly the Ki43 or I16 much do he......
Post by: caldera on November 05, 2015, 03:21:18 PM
all this talk of Pony superiority or lack thereof. Doesn't this just mean that the pony is the most flown plane? This wasn't kills per sortie or K/D was it? Just said the most kills.
And why do you think it is the most flown plane, tour after tour, year after year? Because it is a challenge?
To suggest that it isn't one of the easiest planes to succeed in is flat out wrong.
Post by: Squire on November 06, 2015, 04:16:50 AM
Quote
To suggest that it isn't one of the easiest planes to succeed in is flat out wrong.
Well its certainly not one of the harder ones to succeed in.
Post by: JunkyII on November 06, 2015, 05:23:09 AM
And why do you think it is the most flown plane, tour after tour, year after year? Because it is a challenge?Any plane is easy to succeed in depending ..personally I think my K/D would be higher in a tour flying a Brewster then a P51D....
To suggest that it isn't one of the easiest planes to succeed in is flat out wrong.
Post by: Lusche on November 06, 2015, 07:23:44 AM
..personally I think my K/D would be higher in a tour flying a Brewster then a P51D....
Only way for this to happen is when you don't really fly the 51D to it's strengths.
The Pony is way more survivable in the MA environment than the Brewster.
Post by: The Fugitive on November 06, 2015, 07:31:50 AM
Any plane is easy to succeed in depending ..personally I think my K/D would be higher in a tour flying a Brewster then a P51D....
They are talking about the average player here too. Picture a guy who can't keep a +1 k\d. Which plane is he going to do better with? Certainly not the Brewster
Post by: Randy1 on November 06, 2015, 07:59:04 AM
Post by: JunkyII on November 06, 2015, 11:46:33 AM
Only way for this to happen is when you don't really fly the 51D to it's strengths.I should have said overall fighter score...I believe my kills to time/accuracy would go up and my k/d won't change the much.
The Pony is way more survivable in the MA environment than the Brewster.