General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Serenity on October 21, 2015, 03:58:29 PM
Title: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 21, 2015, 03:58:29 PM
... among other altitudes.
I haven't spoken much about primary to this point, because up until my first solo, it seemed like they only wanted me to fly once every other week. Well, after that, I got slammed through triple-time, and boy has it been a hell of a ride!
Aero:
So, aero is the phase that I'm told makes or breaks jet dreams. A lot of people apparently get there, and realize either they're no good at it, or their stomachs just can't handle it, and there go dreams of hornets... and me?
Spaz can frickin aero! On my first Aero flight, I was warned ahead of time that a lot of students come into stick shaker (Stall warning) at the top of maneuvers, and tend to freak out about that. Well, knife-fighting 109s here has taught me to view stall warnings not as a caution but as a performance indicator. If she's not shuddering, you're not being aggressive enough. "So there I was..." 14,000' up, and the IP demo'd his loop. It was okay. We finished off about 30 degrees off heading, 20 knots fast, and maybe 500' low. He was a KC-10 guy. My turn. Up at the top of the loop, we're right on speed, and I feel the stick shaker. Good, we're pulling nicely. Come out of the bottom EXACTLY on heading, airspeed and altitude. A PERFECT maneuver. He gave me the "good job" but I wrote it off to beginners luck. Turns out, I really do have a knack for this! Every subsequent maneuver was nearly perfect, on the very first flight!
Well, my third flight got REALLY fun. The weather was closing in, and we couldn't go to our usual training area. So, rather than wait a day for clearer skies, we decided to go somewhere weird. (My one big negative I've found is that the squadron seems no to care about quality training, as long as they can get the advancing X...) Well, the block we get sent into, we're given EXACTLY 3,000', and not just for administrative reasons. The approach path for the international airport is right above us, and the F-35 was doing something right below us. And the FTI says our vertical maneuvers are supposed to take EXACTLY 3,000'. My IP expressed a little concern, but since I'd been doing well, he decided to chance it. The one thing he says before my opening loop is "Try to make this one a little tighter than usual". "No problem" says I, "Gs coming on, now, now, now..." and up we go. Coming out of the bottom I hear a groggy "What the %$#@" from the back. "How many feet is a loop supposed to take?!" he says. "3,000'" says I. "That was 1,800!!!" he says. "Sir, you told me to make it tight..." and we DID come out exactly on airspeed, heading and altitude!
All went well, and I finished the phase with strong grades, on into instruments.
This is about the time I regret complaining about never being scheduled in contacts. Every. Single. Day. I didn't get more than the minimum one day off per week. On the three-day weekend, I flew doubles Friday and Sunday, flight planning Saturday and Tuesday.
Then, last Thursday... I check the unofficial schedule in the morning (Schedules come out around 1600 the night before, every day, but there's an unofficial draft you can look at around 1000). Nothing crazy, a PRT on Friday, and two local area flights. So, I text the IP I'm flying with to ask where he'd like me to plan our flights to. He tells me to get in touch with another IP's student. The short version here is, I can't even find out WHO this other guy is until the official schedule is out that night. And when it does, I about layed a brick. So much for local area, I'm going cross country! Scramble to get a hold of this guy, to no avail, and finally get my IP to tell me what's happening around 2000. Looks like I'm going to Columbus OH for the weekend! Well, there's no time to plan for it that night, as I don't have ANY of the pubs I would need. I just show up the next morning at [Time omitted for crew day reasons], and SCRAMBLE to throw together a flight plan. Now, I make a GLORIOUS plan, following airways, using VORs and training routes, complete with a great jet log and fuel plan. I show up to the brief, my IP takes one look at it and goes "Nah, we're just gonna FMS direct-to". ALL of that time wasted. The flights up to Ohio were uneventful, except when we had a 747 vectored about 1000' under us (We were up at FL280) and he jumped on the center frequency saying "You guys aren't supposed to be up here!". I guess it's not every day you see a single-engine turboprop at 28,000 feet...
Until we come back. Now, taking off from Columbus, we noted a bit of binding in the rudders. Nothing too bad, and it magically cleared up shortly after takeoff. We continued to monitor it throughout the flight, and since it didn't reappear, we continued on down to Huntsville. Preflight was fine. Taxiing out was fine. Runup, fine, rotation, fine. "Two positive rates, gear. Above 110, flaps". And then I go to add a little more right rudder. I can't move the pedal at all. I tell the IP in the back, who has about 200lbs on me, and with all of his weight, he can't budge the pedal an inch. Awe hell. We request an immediate turn to downwind, and clearance to land. We say we don't need an emergency call, but they scramble the firetrucks anyway. It was a bit dicey coming in without rudder, but winds were thankfully, right down the pipe. We get the plane put away and start trying to figure out how to get home. There's not a single rental car available in the whole city. After a few hours of searching, we luck out, and it turns out the FBO keeps a couple of rentals for emergencies, and gives us one. We make the LONG drive down to Pensacola, exhausted. It just so happens when we meet the duty van, the Skipper is in it, having been picked up in Mobile after getting red chord on a tire. I start spinning my sob story of exhaustion, hoping he'll let me get out of my double sims the next day, since we're getting in so late. Nope. Since we'll be finished checking the plane back in JUST about 13 hours before my sim, (Even though it's WELL past midnight), I can't call crew-rest. I'm on.
Show up for those sims, and they're, expectedly, rough. And of course, double events the next day too, a forms class (Even though I'm not done with instruments yet!) and a flight. Well, I have a couple of hours on the schedule between the class and the flight to get dinner, unwind, and mentally prepare myself. Or so I think. Literally as I walk out of class, I get a call from the FDO. They want me to fly. Right. Now. So away I go... And what a flight!
We went out to Mobile to do a few ILS and VOR approaches, nothing exciting, and as we're headed to NPA for some PARs, I hear what I thought was the scarriest call of my life. "All aircraft, radio silence, Navy 097, say intent and souls on board". I knew that's not a phrase you hear when things are okay. They try calling 097 two more times, and suddenly, the next call is to us. "Red Knight 024, tune [Can't recall the frequency] fly 170, and relay a message". I've got the plane, the IP takes the comms, trying to get a hold of them. I hear a VERY broken response "097 is near the beachline. Squaking 7700. No VHF. No cabin lights (It was about 2100 at this point, pitch black out). Intermittent power loss." That's the last we heard, but ATC had them on radar. They gave me a new series of vectors, I complied, thinking they were getting us out of the way of this emergency. "Red Knight 024, helicopter should be at your 12 o'clock, 6 miles." Oh hell, WE'RE the SAR asset for now! And then I learned that I was wrong earlier. Truly the scariest call I've heard came in. "Red Knight 024, radar contact with the helicopter lost. Your 11 O'Clock, 2 miles." My heart sank. I looked up and all I saw was black water... And then, about 2 miles ahead, on the beach, I see two brief flashes of a strobe light. I'm in the back, so I give the IP up front the controls to get us in closer. He cant see anything, but I give him instructions to circle over what i think was the spot. One turn. Nothing. Two turns. Nothing. Three... red and green! The position lights come on, VERY faint (I could barely see them at first, and we were only about 1,000 feet above them). I tell him I've got them in sight, and we relay to ATC. They want an exact fix, and the IP still can see them, so I talk him out, into a turn, and put us immidiately overhead to mark for ATC. As we're relaying it back we get a very broken transmission on guard "Red Knight 024, 097. We see you overhead. We're down safe, please relay to Lucky Base we're all okay". We send that on to ATC to make the call, and ask if there's anything else they need, and if they want us on station. They say no, proceed with your flight, and as we head for NPA for our approaches, we see a 60 coming down the coast to the site.
That was this last weekend and last night. Lets see what's in store today!
-"Spaz"
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Lizard on October 21, 2015, 04:49:04 PM
:aok NavAir dude! (west coast for Go Navy!)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on October 21, 2015, 04:51:35 PM
What was the reason for the rudder jam? Someone drop a beer can behind a pedal? :devil
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on October 21, 2015, 05:55:28 PM
Great read.
You are going to make a heck of a drone pilot one day.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 22, 2015, 12:19:19 AM
What was the reason for the rudder jam? Someone drop a beer can behind a pedal? :devil
Apparently this is something that just happens with the T-6 with no known cause. They're tearing ours down to see if they can find something. It definitely felt like a mechanical issue, so my guess is something to do with the rudder portion of the gust lock, or FOD.
Apparently this is something that just happens with the T-6 with no known cause.
Hmmm. Maybe time to deactivated the rudder control lock and go back to good old external locks. Odd that the issue can't be pin-pointed.
Not a warm and fuzzy to have a control surface jammed. Once spent an exciting 10 minutes or so with the elevator in a 206 stuck in the up position.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 22, 2015, 08:23:21 PM
Aaaand tonight...
So there I was, on the ILS at Mobile. We decided to make it a low pass, since a regional jet was departing ahead of us. As we get our gear and flaps up, we get a hyd fluid low caution. So we slow to 150, drop the gear and flaps to takeoff. We were already on radar vectors for the localiser, and our pressure was stable in the green, so we kept on trucking. As we transitioned to a visual landing, I dropped flaps to landing, and the bottom fell out of our hyds gauge. Straight to zero. Flaps were about half way between takeoff and landing. Just as we touched down, a noise started, sounding like the engine was eating itself alive. Nose wheel steering was squirrely as we pulled off the runway, and with the sounds coming from the engine, we decided to do and emergency shutdown on the ground.
I wonder what will happen on tomorrow's flights...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: 68falcon on October 23, 2015, 09:44:04 AM
Rudder lockup and hydraulic problems same aircraft?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Maverick on October 23, 2015, 10:54:09 AM
At this rate, maybe you should review bailout procedures for the next op?? :O :devil
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Swoop on October 23, 2015, 11:28:31 AM
Serenity, please take my advice: Keep writing these stories, keep posting them....and in 10 years you cut and paste em all into a Word doc, send it to a publisher and retire on the royalties. And when you do I want a beer.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 23, 2015, 11:52:53 AM
Serenity, please take my advice: Keep writing these stories, keep posting them....and in 10 years you cut and paste em all into a Word doc, send it to a publisher and retire on the royalties. And when you do I want a beer.
Hey, if I make ANY money, I'll take the whole BBS out for a beer. I wouldn't have made it this far without you guys!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: MiloMorai on October 23, 2015, 01:00:06 PM
Just make sure the E seat works and the silk has no rips or holes in it because it sounds like they will be needed soon.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: HL117 on October 23, 2015, 01:19:33 PM
So there I was, on the ILS at Mobile. We decided to make it a low pass, since a regional jet was departing ahead of us. As we get our gear and flaps up, we get a hyd fluid low caution. So we slow to 150, drop the gear and flaps to takeoff. We were already on radar vectors for the localiser, and our pressure was stable in the green, so we kept on trucking. As we transitioned to a visual landing, I dropped flaps to landing, and the bottom fell out of our hyds gauge. Straight to zero. Flaps were about half way between takeoff and landing. Just as we touched down, a noise started, sounding like the engine was eating itself alive. Nose wheel steering was squirrely as we pulled off the runway, and with the sounds coming from the engine, we decided to do and emergency shutdown on the ground.
I wonder what will happen on tomorrow's flights...
Good grief Charlie Brown what the heell?........ guess it keeps the pucker factor high.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 23, 2015, 05:43:57 PM
First leg of today done. Nothing wild, but we got to do the river run in New Orleans. 200kts and 1000' over the river right through downtown NOLA. If that wasn't cool enough, who is sharing the pattern with me at KNEW? A P-51 and a B-17!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: icepac on October 24, 2015, 09:33:00 AM
So there I was, on the ILS at Mobile. We decided to make it a low pass, since a regional jet was departing ahead of us. As we get our gear and flaps up, we get a hyd fluid low caution. So we slow to 150, drop the gear and flaps to takeoff. We were already on radar vectors for the localiser, and our pressure was stable in the green, so we kept on trucking. As we transitioned to a visual landing, I dropped flaps to landing, and the bottom fell out of our hyds gauge. Straight to zero. Flaps were about half way between takeoff and landing. Just as we touched down, a noise started, sounding like the engine was eating itself alive. Nose wheel steering was squirrely as we pulled off the runway, and with the sounds coming from the engine, we decided to do and emergency shutdown on the ground.
I wonder what will happen on tomorrow's flights...
The noise you heard was aeration in the pump.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on October 24, 2015, 08:14:12 PM
Apparently this is something that just happens with the T-6 with no known cause. They're tearing ours down to see if they can find something. It definitely felt like a mechanical issue, so my guess is something to do with the rudder portion of the gust lock, or FOD.
If I had any idea where to find you, I'd come kick you in the crotch.
There are some pulleys and bulkheads the rudder cables go through. If anything jams in there, you're out of luck.
As for the FL280 call... T-6 doesn't have equipment required for RVSM which is required above FL240, but ATC won't refuse military aircraft full use of the airspace so whenever a non-RVSM mil aircraft goes above FL240, all hell breaks loose as suddenly everyone needs to use old separation restrictions. Many military pilots don't realize this is what happens, but there it is. I tried to stay FL230 or below after the RVSM rules came into full use, but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
On scene commander during a night instrument flight... That's a good experience. Next time you do that it might be over Iraq or Afghanistan, or literally the middle of the ocean. Don't eff it up.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on October 24, 2015, 08:16:21 PM
Next up is good old standby from mid-block USAF T-6s, the dreaded prop sleeve touchdown. Better know where that circuit breaker is, 'cause you might have to pull it to keep the motor from eating itself and push it back in to land.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 26, 2015, 01:03:11 PM
As for the FL280 call... T-6 doesn't have equipment required for RVSM which is required above FL240, but ATC won't refuse military aircraft full use of the airspace so whenever a non-RVSM mil aircraft goes above FL240, all hell breaks loose as suddenly everyone needs to use old separation restrictions. Many military pilots don't realize this is what happens, but there it is. I tried to stay FL230 or below after the RVSM rules came into full use, but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Thanks Eagl! That's a great bit of knowledge I knew nothing about! They never mention anything like that to us.
Next up is good old standby from mid-block USAF T-6s, the dreaded prop sleeve touchdown. Better know where that circuit breaker is, 'cause you might have to pull it to keep the motor from eating itself and push it back in to land.
Is that still a factor with the Bravos? We have a note in our NATOPs they bring up in the first week of groundschool, but it's basically an asterisk, or so they tell us, as it supposedly doesn't happen anymore?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on October 26, 2015, 05:43:03 PM
The prop sleeve touchdown was mostly limited to a known production run and set of serial number / build dates, however at Sheppard we did have a couple that were completely outside of the known suspect range.
Still, the newer motors use a modified bearing with a different design that is supposed to ensure more consistent bearing performance so it shouldn't be a concern anymore. The ironic thing is that I'm told the whole prop sleeve bearing issue began with manufacturer having to extend that bearing length to make up for the weight of the US military ejection seats, so the motor was lengthened a bit to avoid having to change the motor mount or move the firewall or add ballast. The prop sleeve bearing failures were in that lengthened part. At least that's the story that went around back when the bearing failures first started.
Plenty of other strange issues with the T-6 although I never flew a B model so I don't know any of your particular avionics quirks. Have you had a canopy fail to lock or close yet? The older they get, the more finicky the locking mechanism gets and it takes experienced T-6 maintainers to get it right once they start to bend a bit. We had a couple handles pop back in flight, luckily aero loads kept the latches engaged until they were slowed down after landing. There was almost a year of persistent problems with the canopy latches until both the instructors and maintainers got more experience dealing with finicky canopy latches.
We had a rash of doors pop open inflight, never can be 100% sure if the latch failed inflight or if someone just forgot to get all the latches closed/locked right. Tire failures were the other irritating thing with the T-6 especially for IPs used to flying the T-37 which you could go-kart around the airfield forever without blowing a tire. Not sure if the B has the same brake system as the USAF models but there was little brake feel sitting up so high and no antiskid so blown tires were very common.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cpxxx on October 26, 2015, 07:34:28 PM
Wow fascinating reading. Have to say you come across as a pilot who can cope with anything. Your emergency issue reminds of a friend of mine who was on his Commercial flight test as if he needed any further pressure, when another nearby flight test crashed and he found himself flying overhead cover because it went down in a remote area and he had to direct in the emergency chopper. Imagine during your flight test!
He got his commercial and so far his life as an airline pilot has been dull. Sad to say the Examirer was blinded in the crash. I met him only a few weeks earlier. Made me realise how dangerous this business can be. Flying is so much fun but at this stage I've lost a few friends and I never flew military, much to my disappointment.
Enjoy it but remember it can all go wrong in an instant.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 26, 2015, 08:21:53 PM
Plenty of other strange issues with the T-6 although I never flew a B model so I don't know any of your particular avionics quirks. Have you had a canopy fail to lock or close yet? The older they get, the more finicky the locking mechanism gets and it takes experienced T-6 maintainers to get it right once they start to bend a bit. We had a couple handles pop back in flight, luckily aero loads kept the latches engaged until they were slowed down after landing. There was almost a year of persistent problems with the canopy latches until both the instructors and maintainers got more experience dealing with finicky canopy latches.
We had a rash of doors pop open inflight, never can be 100% sure if the latch failed inflight or if someone just forgot to get all the latches closed/locked right. Tire failures were the other irritating thing with the T-6 especially for IPs used to flying the T-37 which you could go-kart around the airfield forever without blowing a tire. Not sure if the B has the same brake system as the USAF models but there was little brake feel sitting up so high and no antiskid so blown tires were very common.
I've never had a canopy open when it wasn't supposed to, but man some of them are dammed near impossible to close! I've had to have an IP help me pull it down more than once, or hold it in place while f$%#@ing with the mechanism for a good 5 minutes to get it to actually latch. It's such a frequent issue, I consider it a miracle when I get the thing closed on the first try.
As for tires... Dear god, don't get me started. We don't go a single day without having to send a duty driver to pick up a crew that either blew a tire or is showing red chord. Part of it is, you're absolutely right, almost ZERO brake feedback, but from what I've heard, we also use some pretty cheap, crappy tires. They're a constant issue.
As for other little issues normal to the Bravo, Zeolyte Powder (SP?) is a pretty frequent problem in the Obogs. Obogs fails during aero is pretty common (I had it twice). Our TCAS seems to go crazy pretty frequently (False returns, sometimes COVERING the screen with yellow diamonds of doom). We also seem to have a hyds leak at least every other week.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on October 26, 2015, 10:00:16 PM
Sheppard AFB has a great group of maintainers, sounds like some of the issues you guys have are either unique to your build aircraft or you've got a back shop that isn't quite on top of things. Hydraulic leaks happened for us but it wasn't exactly a continuous problem.
Same goes for zeolite dust. I remember reading all the warnings and we did have one defective batch that got replaced quickly but I don't recall a single time seeing any of that stuff inside my mask after a flight. Maybe its your extra humidity but we got fairly humid in north texas sometimes, so I dunno. OBOGS will fail on occasion but again I saw a "real" OBOGS failure maybe twice in 500 hours. Of course, we had some pilots who didn't understand the system so they'd reset the OBOGS every 10 minutes after resetting it for the whole flight, which pretty much means they flew the whole flight with a failed OBOGS because it takes 10 minutes to reset and test itself. I considered OBOGS to be a hard-fail no-go item because it utilizes bleed air, and you never know what is causing the OBOGS fail. It *could* be a bleed air leak which can crash the plane from fire, you just don't know because you don't get any detail information when you get the OBOGS light. Lots of other pilots (mostly younger ones who never had a real bleed air leak or AC turbine failure in flight like I had) scoffed at the OBOGS fail and would continue low level flights with that failure, but I always thought that was kind of dumb.
Our TAS birds were pretty good. The skies near Sheppard aren't super high volume so the TAS was pretty good. Even around DFW where its really busy, the TAS birds were sought after for cross countries due to the extra situational awareness it could provide in the terminal area. Guys also liked it for 2-ship low level flying since the time to react for traffic conflicts on a low level with a wingman out there can be very short.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on October 26, 2015, 10:20:02 PM
OBOGS? Explain please.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Wolfala on October 26, 2015, 10:28:23 PM
Onboard Oxygen Generator. Seren, when you get to Meredian let me know. You might still have Chuckles as your paddles.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on October 27, 2015, 02:18:02 AM
OBOGS uses engine bleed air to force oxygen through a molecular sieve. It basically enriches oxygen content in air using bleed air pressure. The enriched air is fed to the pilot through a fairly conventional regulator. Large aircraft with OBOGS will use it to feed O2 to a pressure reservoir where its used on demand and also as a backup O2 supply if the motor or OBOGS fails. In the T-6, there is no backup system or reservoir so if it quits, its done. Not only that, there is no direct readout on the quality of the air you're getting, other than an "idiot light" that illuminates if any one of a number of self-tests fail. It's sort of like a check engine light that could light up if you're either low on windshield washer fluid or about to have total brake failure. So there's not a lot of trust there and I think most people try to forget that they're using it because like it or not there's nothing we can do about it. And it does seem to work well most of the time, and it doesn't require expensive liquid or high pressure oxygen servicing. You're just breathing bleed air, and what could possibly go wrong with that?
Also, it can sometimes expel "zeolite dust" into the system, which the pilot gets to breathe. Nobody knows what zeolite dust is, other than sometimes OBOGS makes you breathe it.
And any contamination that enters the air intake or turbine compressor could end up getting partially burned and then sent through the OBOGS system, with unpredictable results.
In the T-6, the ejection seat's emergency oxygen bottle is the backup system in case OBOGS fails at high altitude. If that happens, the simplified version of the solution is to activate the emergency bottle which blows your mask right off your face and makes it impossible to talk, disconnect your oxygen hose from the aircraft, and make an emergency rapid descent to below 10k altitude.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 27, 2015, 07:43:06 PM
OBOGS uses engine bleed air to force oxygen through a molecular sieve. It basically enriches oxygen content in air using bleed air pressure. The enriched air is fed to the pilot through a fairly conventional regulator. Large aircraft with OBOGS will use it to feed O2 to a pressure reservoir where its used on demand and also as a backup O2 supply if the motor or OBOGS fails. In the T-6, there is no backup system or reservoir so if it quits, its done. Not only that, there is no direct readout on the quality of the air you're getting, other than an "idiot light" that illuminates if any one of a number of self-tests fail. It's sort of like a check engine light that could light up if you're either low on windshield washer fluid or about to have total brake failure. So there's not a lot of trust there and I think most people try to forget that they're using it because like it or not there's nothing we can do about it. And it does seem to work well most of the time, and it doesn't require expensive liquid or high pressure oxygen servicing. You're just breathing bleed air, and what could possibly go wrong with that?
Also, it can sometimes expel "zeolite dust" into the system, which the pilot gets to breathe. Nobody knows what zeolite dust is, other than sometimes OBOGS makes you breathe it.
And any contamination that enters the air intake or turbine compressor could end up getting partially burned and then sent through the OBOGS system, with unpredictable results.
In the T-6, the ejection seat's emergency oxygen bottle is the backup system in case OBOGS fails at high altitude. If that happens, the simplified version of the solution is to activate the emergency bottle which blows your mask right off your face and makes it impossible to talk, disconnect your oxygen hose from the aircraft, and make an emergency rapid descent to below 10k altitude.
The only thing I'd add is that my nickname for Zeolyte Powder is Insta-cancer...
Onboard Oxygen Generator. Seren, when you get to Meredian let me know. You might still have Chuckles as your paddles.
I appreciate the vote of confidence! I'love find out for sure next week!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: TheBug on October 28, 2015, 01:36:39 PM
Serenity and eagl, thanks for sharing! :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on October 28, 2015, 10:25:45 PM
You're welcome :)
The T-6 is kind of like a lightweight P-51A... Better power to weight if I recall correctly, but the wing is optimized for low to mid speed behavior and the fuselage with the huge canopy isn't shaped to reduce drag, so its slower.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 30, 2015, 05:12:37 PM
We're almost to bingo folks!
Wednesday night, I'm in the back seat for my instrument check. We get started, and I go to enter the flight plan into the FMS, and the data entry knob falls right off! I tell my IP, and he says "well, see if you can find it". So I shine the flashlight around looking all over trying to find the damned thing. "I don't see it anywhere" I say. "Keep looking, I'll go ahead and enter the plan for you". More looking, more negative reports, but he seems to want to press. Always looking for that X...
Well about the time I'm about to say "sir, we can't fly with FOD back here, we need to get a different plane", the master caution goes off. IAC1 is gone. Well, I knew I was due for an electronics failure. "Did you touch something back there?!" The IP says. "Uh, no?" I said "that's IAC1, that's up front with you". He starts checking his circuit beakers and I check mine just in case. Nothing on either end. About 30 seconds later, TCAS fails. "We just lost TCAS in the back" I said. "What?! But that doesn't make sense. IAC1 and TCAS are on different busses..." says the IP. "Sir, I vote we give up" I said. Just as the words leave my mouth, all three MFDs go dark...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: HL117 on October 30, 2015, 05:39:53 PM
We have visited the white sands of Gulf Shores, AL quite often in the early summer for several years now, we stay a week or so renting a house on the beach, doing nothing but chilling, many times while I sit in chair toes buried in sand I hear the drone of aircraft out over the water out past the oil rigs, never have I seen any of these aircraft myself but hear them, drives me crazy, think I have damaged my eyesight searching for the culprits, it is not the drone of aircraft traversing from point A to point B, it is the sound of aircraft doing maneuvers or so I think it is ............tell me I am not crazy and it is you and your fellow airmen practicing just beyond visual range from the beach :headscratch:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 30, 2015, 10:24:57 PM
We have visited the white sands of Gulf Shores, AL quite often in the early summer for several years now, we stay a week or so renting a house on the beach, doing nothing but chilling, many times while I sit in chair toes buried in sand I hear the drone of aircraft out over the water out past the oil rigs, never have I seen any of these aircraft myself but hear them, drives me crazy, think I have damaged my eyesight searching for the culprits, it is not the drone of aircraft traversing from point A to point B, it is the sound of aircraft doing maneuvers or so I think it is ............tell me I am not crazy and it is you and your fellow airmen practicing just beyond visual range from the beach :headscratch:
Could be south of you, but more likely it's north of you. Foley Alabama is what we call Area 1 and the South MOA. Just east of Foley is NOLF Barin, where students fly their first 4 flights. Slightly higher up (7k up to 26k) we do aerobatics.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Maverick on October 31, 2015, 08:34:47 AM
Serenity I think your call sign should be gremlin. Not like the ones in the movie, but the one in the old bugs bunny cartoon from WW 2 time frame. You are death on aircraft........ not the other guys aircraft just on the one you are in. :airplane: :bolt:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 31, 2015, 10:01:10 AM
Serenity I think your call sign should be gremlin. Not like the ones in the movie, but the one in the old bugs bunny cartoon from WW 2 time frame. You are death on aircraft........ not the other guys aircraft just on the one you are in. :airplane: :bolt:
No joke! My on wing (a helo guy) said he's gonna do everything he can to keep me away from rotary, because he knows if he flies with meach in the fleet, we're gonna die lol
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on October 31, 2015, 11:08:24 AM
Could all these problems be a result of corrosion? Being in a warm, marine environment can cause very high rates of corrosion, especially for aluminum and copper. Sodium chloride and magnesium chloride are probably the two biggest offenders as far as electrolytes go resulting from seawater. Magnesium chloride especially, as it is hygroscopic.
Or these planes could simply be old and used up. I read "Black Aces High", a great book about VF-41 and their F-14s during the Serbian Air War. On almost every single launch, a piece of equipment would fail on the aircraft. The majority of the time it wasn't critical to the mission, sometimes it was...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Bino on October 31, 2015, 11:30:42 AM
Could all these problems be a result of corrosion? Being in a warm, marine environment can cause very high rates of corrosion, especially for aluminum and copper. Sodium chloride and magnesium chloride are probably the two biggest offenders as far as electrolytes go resulting from seawater. Magnesium chloride especially, as it is hygroscopic.
Or these planes could simply be old and used up. I read "Black Aces High", a great book about VF-41 and their F-14s during the Serbian Air War. On almost every single launch, a piece of equipment would fail on the aircraft. The majority of the time it wasn't critical to the mission, sometimes it was...
One of my old college friends was a US Naval Aviator for nearly a decade, flying the Sikorsky SH-3 helo. His experience with the "Sea Pig" mirrored that of VF-41: some gadget or other failed on almost every flight.
Serenity & Eagl, thanks for posting. :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on October 31, 2015, 11:52:50 AM
Could all these problems be a result of corrosion? Being in a warm, marine environment can cause very high rates of corrosion, especially for aluminum and copper. Sodium chloride and magnesium chloride are probably the two biggest offenders as far as electrolytes go resulting from seawater. Magnesium chloride especially, as it is hygroscopic.
Or these planes could simply be old and used up. I read "Black Aces High", a great book about VF-41 and their F-14s during the Serbian Air War. On almost every single launch, a piece of equipment would fail on the aircraft. The majority of the time it wasn't critical to the mission, sometimes it was...
Corrosion is very possible. The specifications for the T-6 permitted a lot of commercial off the shelf components to be adapted to the program.
As for old and used up... not hardly. The Navy T-6s are almost new. Even the oldest USAF T-6 is still a fraction of the age of the T-37 it replaced, same for the T-38s still in use. The newness of the program and the desire to cut costs in design, production, and operations, are all huge factors for reliability.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on October 31, 2015, 12:08:17 PM
Could all these problems be a result of corrosion? Being in a warm, marine environment can cause very high rates of corrosion, especially for aluminum and copper. Sodium chloride and magnesium chloride are probably the two biggest offenders as far as electrolytes go resulting from seawater. Magnesium chloride especially, as it is hygroscopic.
Or these planes could simply be old and used up. I read "Black Aces High", a great book about VF-41 and their F-14s during the Serbian Air War. On almost every single launch, a piece of equipment would fail on the aircraft. The majority of the time it wasn't critical to the mission, sometimes it was...
Well, for my instrument check ride last night, I had a great chat with the IP, who was a former Herc pilot for the Air Force, but had been a Navy Reserve IP for the last 13 years. We were discussing the T-6 versus the T-34C it replaced (She flew both, and had at LEAST 1,000 hours in the 34). Her comparison was this:
The T-6B is a GREAT airplane, but entirely wrong for it's job. The T-34 was a workhorse, bulletproof, and very forgiving. The T-6 is a diva. Too hot outside, and you have trouble starting. Too cold, and you have internal issues. It's got GREAT avionics, but because of that, the maintenance requirements are pretty extreme, (And trying to teach a student JUST learning instrument flight to balance the old needles with the FMS, and transition between the two is a pain in the neck). It's prone to blown tires, it CANNOT be landed in a crab under any circumstances, it's incredibly unforgiving at low speeds and in the pattern... (These are her statements, I have no basis for comparison).
When you have a plane that's THIS finicky, and have students with no idea what they're doing fly it 5 times a day, 7 days a week... things are GOING to break. And often. Which they do.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on October 31, 2015, 01:03:37 PM
Give it a few years and even the crusty old Navy instructors will learn to love the T-6, and they'll come up with the tricks and techniques necessary to teach the students how to fly them without breaking them all the time. It took Sheppard about 2 years to sort out most of the hassles with the T-6, even with the benefit of being able to look at how the other UPT bases and Randolph deal with the somewhat more fragile nature of the T-6. It'll never be as robust as the T-37 but with some attention to avoiding certain behaviors it can be effective while the incident rate drops and mission ready percentage climbs. Even the T-37 had quirks that we all took for granted, but which were horrible before we figured them out. There must be a couple dozen stall/spin fatalities in the T-37 history for example, and the mishap rate for that specific situation didn't drop until the USAF figured out a really GOOD stall/spin training program for both instructors and students. And still, the last T-37 fatality that I know of was an IP at Laughlin who spun during a final turn go-around just a couple of years before they transitioned to the T-6.
The T-6 has far more overall performance than the T-37 so even though the regular USAF UPT bases don't take advantage of it, at least at Sheppard they've utilized the improved performance to move some basic formation and low-level training down to the T-6 from the T-38. 2-ship tactical formation and 2-ship low-level are great examples. Not using that capability is a total waste of resources, but the USAF has worked itself into a situation where they can't get T-6 instructors who even know what 2-ship tactical is, let alone can teach it, so the capability is totally wasted and that training has to be done in the far more expensive T-38. But the capability is there with the T-6, if we have the courage to actually use it.
In my deployment to Iraq standing up an Iraqi T-6 training squadron, we had the opportunity to teach some of these advanced techniques and even some tactical training using the high performance of the T-6. Unfortunately at a critical time we had a squadron commander who was awesome at the administrative stuff we absolutely needed at the time but who was also a heavy driver who had never flown the T-6 or any sort of tactical maneuvering in any aircraft until he got his command in this T-6 squadron. So the first advanced formation flight he went on with our Sheppard-trained instructors, he got scared and forbade us from doing that ever again. Too bad, the Iraqis sure could have used that training and even though the CC couldn't do it himself, a third of his IPs were from Sheppard and we could have taken on that role as an advanced qualification. Oh well.
The point is that yea the T-6 is a bit fragile especially compared to the T-37 in a primary training role, but once the IPs and maintainers get used to its quirks, the additional performance can open up some great training opportunities that offload some advanced stuff from the more expensive advanced trainer aircraft. That's pure gold in terms of training program affordability since every single sortie moved from the T-38 (or hawk) to the T-6 probably saves somewhere around $3000-$5000.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on October 31, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
Good insight from your IP. That's a pretty dangerous combination right there. Just for comparison, the chief test pilot for the Mig-25 was killed by an electronic instrument malfunction (fuel sensor) and getting too slow in the pattern.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on October 31, 2015, 01:10:57 PM
Good insight from your IP. That's a pretty dangerous combination right there. Just for comparison, the chief test pilot for the Mig-25 was killed by an electronic instrument malfunction (fuel sensor) and getting too slow in the pattern.
Interesting you'd say he got killed by a fuel sensor... I'd say he got killed by an over-reliance on gauges and complacency, or a lack of systems knowledge. Contrast that guy with Bob Hoover who took a fighter (F-100 if I recall correctly) on a national tour. On the very first flight he noticed that what he saw on the fuel gauge didn't seem to match with the number of gallons they were putting into the plane and it didn't match his expected fuel burn either. So he immediately padded all his fuel calculations with the amount of the discrepancy and continued on the national tour. After returning the plane to the factory, he griped about the fuel situation so they tore the plane down to figure it out. It turns out that a fuel tank was completely blocked off and unusable. So if he'd relied on the book numbers for fuel and relied on the fuel gauge, he probably would have run out of fuel and crashed the plane.
So... getting killed by a fuel sensor? Not in my world. I've used old pilots like Hoover and Yeager and Olds as my examples and not one of them would have failed to notice that the fuel gauge readings didn't match their flight planning or expected fuel burn and they would have re-planned their flight to ensure they landed with enough fuel. It's a basic responsibility of every pilot to do exactly that. Even the FAA states the pilot is responsible for flight planning and execution, and nowhere does it say in the FAR/AIM that the pilot's responsibility is absolved by the presence of a faulty gauge.
My 2 cents...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Maverick on November 01, 2015, 08:52:17 AM
Here ya go Serenity, your new call sign and nose art.
Interesting you'd say he got killed by a fuel sensor... I'd say he got killed by an over-reliance on gauges and complacency, or a lack of systems knowledge. Contrast that guy with Bob Hoover who took a fighter (F-100 if I recall correctly) on a national tour. On the very first flight he noticed that what he saw on the fuel gauge didn't seem to match with the number of gallons they were putting into the plane and it didn't match his expected fuel burn either. So he immediately padded all his fuel calculations with the amount of the discrepancy and continued on the national tour. After returning the plane to the factory, he griped about the fuel situation so they tore the plane down to figure it out. It turns out that a fuel tank was completely blocked off and unusable. So if he'd relied on the book numbers for fuel and relied on the fuel gauge, he probably would have run out of fuel and crashed the plane.
So... getting killed by a fuel sensor? Not in my world. I've used old pilots like Hoover and Yeager and Olds as my examples and not one of them would have failed to notice that the fuel gauge readings didn't match their flight planning or expected fuel burn and they would have re-planned their flight to ensure they landed with enough fuel. It's a basic responsibility of every pilot to do exactly that. Even the FAA states the pilot is responsible for flight planning and execution, and nowhere does it say in the FAR/AIM that the pilot's responsibility is absolved by the presence of a faulty gauge.
My 2 cents...
Sounds like the a/c crashed because it got to slow will attempting to land.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on November 12, 2015, 02:52:29 PM
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 13, 2016, 06:40:49 PM
Well, so as not to start a new topic, here's a bump.
After weeks of ground school classes and sims, I'm scheduled for my first actual flight in the T-45 tomorrow, so expect more interesting stories to come!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: NatCigg on April 13, 2016, 07:34:44 PM
:aok
regular stories are fine too! :old:
:salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: GScholz on April 13, 2016, 07:51:42 PM
:aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on April 14, 2016, 05:51:10 PM
lol yeah, that picture has made it's rounds. The cause is a pretty interesting piece of engineering that we can thank the Brits with the Hawk for.
We have an anti-skid system which works like ABS in a car. With Anti-Skid on, you get almost no chance of blowing a tire even slamming on the brakes. With the anti-skid switch off, you have no protection against blown tires. Where's the retarded engineering?
If the anti-skid system fails a BIT, and your switch is in the ON position, you get ZERO braking ability at all.
So, this student was a solo, back from FCLPs at El Centro, (So long day, tired, with carrier pressurized tires). He got an emergency at El Centro (Don't remember what exactly it was) and for some reason the LSO at El Centro sent him back to North Island, rather than trapping at El Centro. Then, also inexplicably, the LSO at NASNI decided not to have him trap there either, even though the runway was wet... so, wet runway, anti-skid fail in the on position so no brakes at all, and carrier pressurized tires... screaming off the end of the runway!
Even funnier than putting it in the drink, the kid was FLAILING on the way out, pressing everything he could press, as evidenced by the fact that when they got to the jet, the GTS was running (The Gas Turbine Starter, which he had to have switched on for god only knows why...)
But it's worth mentioning, that's not a TW-2 bird, that's one of the jokers over in Mississippi ;)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: pipz on April 15, 2016, 05:52:44 AM
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 15, 2016, 06:51:55 AM
So, it was entirely uneventful, save for the fact that the loss of tolerance from six months out of the cockpit and aerobatics under the hood combine to make my stomach squirrelly as hell! Completed the flight but had to beg the IP to stop showing off so I didn't lose my lunch!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on April 15, 2016, 07:36:18 AM
Can't believe I missed this thread. Got it tagged now. (Read worthy stuff. Great diary. It'll go well in your book, later.) :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on April 15, 2016, 01:31:26 PM
Wow. Impressive run there Serenity. Reminds me when my brother-in-law went through his fighter training in the RCAF back late 80's, early 90's.
Question for you - how has your flying in Aces High helped with your real-life flying?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 15, 2016, 02:04:01 PM
Wow. Impressive run there Serenity. Reminds me when my brother-in-law went through his fighter training in the RCAF back late 80's, early 90's.
Question for you - how has your flying in Aces High helped with your real-life flying?
There have been subtle way so far. The Bf-109 is my favorite plane in AH, and due it's affinity for hanging on the prop, when we do our stall recoveries, I'm used to hanging on the nose and feeling things shake.
That's about it so far, but I imagine I'll start seeing more benefits as I get into the BFM stage of training.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Russian on April 25, 2016, 07:47:29 AM
Keep posting. Enjoying this reading here.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 09, 2016, 04:10:29 PM
Aaaaand today.
I'm 11 days out of the cockpit, and a month since my last high-work. To make matters worse, this is only my third flight in the aircraft. Already off to a bad start, huh?
So, today we got our high work done, did our high TACAN approach, and came around for the Partial Panel PAR.
So, to give you an idea of what I'm working with, I'm flying from the backseat under the hood, so I have zero outside perspective. This is the T-45C cockpit:
A partial panel situation is when they take away your left MFD, so you have to get all of your primary flight info from the tiny standby instruments on the left. Well, except your headings, which come from the HSI on the right MFD. It sounds like a simple scan, but that standby attitude indicator is TINY, and is NOT marked at smaller than 5 degree increments, and the difference between 0 VSI and -1000 fpm can be as little as 2 degrees. Oh, and the standby VSI lags by as much as 8 seconds. So, saying I'm task-saturated is putting it mildly.
So, we come around on course and come up on glide path. Boards out, begin our descent. It's all I can do to try to keep my descent on profile. In all honesty, I wasn't listening to the specifics of the controller's glideslope calls. I was above, I knew it, and I knew what my VSI needed to be to be on profile, so I was just gunning for that, and boy was I busy. After what felt like an eternity of juggling the throttle and stick to try to stay on profile and on-speed (On speed is in reference to the AOA indexer, not the actual airspeed indicator), I feel the IP jam the throttle forward a bit, and it all breaks down.
Now, from the student perspective, when the IP does something to any of the flight controls without saying something, your mind immediately goes to "I must be doing something horribly wrong!" and since it was the throttle, I assumed I somehow blew through my MDA (And boy, I felt like I had been coming down long enough for that to be true lol). So, I kick the power up just long enough to check by standby-altitude indicator. There is no thousand-hand, just the tumbler dial, but my eyes saw the hundreds-hand first, which was passing through the 200 point, and my MDA was 240, so my brain immediately shoots to "HOLY F***ING S*** IM ABOUT TO CRASH!" and I start to bring the power to MRT (Military Rated Thrust, or max power). Fortunately, before my hand got all the way forward, my brain processed the thousands-indicator, and I realized I was at 1,200 not 200. Okay, power back down, get back on profile and try to unf*** what I just screwed up...
Now in these moments of brainlessness, I've gotten off heading, and I hear my IP go "What's your assigned heading?!"
"169" I reply.
"What's your current heading?!"
"uh..." I've been so focused on my attitude and altitude, I haven't checked my HSI in a few seconds... "180"
"Get back on heading!"
So I start a left hand turn. The controller chimes in with "Well above glideslope and holding"
"Crap" I think to myself, "gotta get back down" as I'm fighting to try to get my scan pattern back down, and stop my brain from tumbling
"Runway heading!" my IP barks.
I look at my HSI. Need to turn left. Look back at my standby-attitude indicator, and realize I'm in a 45 degree bank to the right. S***! Roll level, look up at the altitude indicator. 800 ft and coming down. Back to the attitude gyro. Back to the altitude. I lost track of my altitude once, I'm not gonna let it happen again! Back to the gyro. Level, on profile. Over to the HSI. Back to the gyro. I'm in a 45 degree bank to the right again! Dammit! Back up to alt. 400 ft and descending. Back to the gyro. I'm falling apart, and my helmet's on fire. I'm done with this approach. Call for the missed, knowing I'm losing it.
"What's your heading?!" Barks the IP. Back to the HSI. Back to the gyro and again I'm in a 60 degree bank to the right. I'm done, I'm gonna kill us if I keep this up. I can't keep us level without being GLUED to the gyro, my scan has fallen apart, and I can't cage my brain.
"Vertigo in the back! You've got the controls!" I snap.
The IP takes it and tells me to drop my hood in the back. Even with the visual back, I can feel my head swirling... Thank god I was in the optional warmup window, so we took the option and the flight won't affect my grades. This was my first time in all of flying getting vertigo, but boy was it scary to realize how badly I was circling the drain and that close to the ground!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: GScholz on May 09, 2016, 04:18:55 PM
:uhoh :cheers: :airplane:
Try, try, and try again! Don't let us down! :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Shuffler on May 09, 2016, 04:54:10 PM
Nice write up.... I was glued.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on May 09, 2016, 08:08:54 PM
@Serenity - nice write-up. Did you get back into a sim again to try hooded flight before going out again?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 09, 2016, 10:55:30 PM
I'm scheduled for a practice Sim tomorrow in fact.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Oldman731 on May 10, 2016, 07:13:42 AM
This was my first time in all of flying getting vertigo
"Scary" isn't a strong enough word for it.
Nice write-up, keep 'em coming please.
- oldman
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: deSelys on May 10, 2016, 07:19:09 AM
Thanks for the story! Bad experiences are the most useful, and I'm sure you'll perform much better next time.
About vertigo, I remember reading that it can hit even seasoned pilots from time to time (like Adm. Gillcrist in his book 'Feet Wet' during near zero-vis night carrier landings).
:aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: nooby52 on May 10, 2016, 07:42:49 AM
Could be south of you, but more likely it's north of you. Foley Alabama is what we call Area 1 and the South MOA. Just east of Foley is NOLF Barin, where students fly their first 4 flights. Slightly higher up (7k up to 26k) we do aerobatics.
My retired Marine brother lives in Foley. I love that area, and would love to retire there myself, someday. Currently living in the Houston area, and it blows. thanks for sharing, Serenity. Or should we call you "Spaz"? :cheers:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on May 10, 2016, 08:11:19 AM
thanks for sharing, Serenity. Or should we call you "Spaz"? :cheers:
Brilliant call sign. :D
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Maverick on May 10, 2016, 10:42:36 AM
"Bad" days often equal the most learned. Don't let it get you down. Go over what you did and pick out where you can anticipate things better so you are not playing catch up. Being behind adds stress and that stress will screw up your mind preventing you from catching up. Deep breath and hit it again. :airplane:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 10, 2016, 12:45:59 PM
Thanks for all of the replies gents! Hopefully, I'll be up for round two tomorrow!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on May 11, 2016, 04:34:27 PM
If Jimmy Doolittle could takeoff, fly, and land only on instruments in 1929, I'm sure you can do it too.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: GScholz on May 11, 2016, 04:48:37 PM
Yeah, no pressure!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 11, 2016, 07:27:55 PM
If Jimmy Doolittle could takeoff, fly, and land only on instruments in 1929, I'm sure you can do it too.
The problem isn't that it IS instruments, it's that the instruments were designed as a standby (We have the HUD and two other MFDs), and as a result, they don't work well (They lag, they're not accurate enough, etc.) which makes them a nightmare to revert to under bouncy conditions. As I get more accustomed to just flying the aircraft, it will get easier, but it's basically like trying to drink from a firehose right now.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on May 12, 2016, 06:56:02 PM
I read this book several years ago http://www.amazon.com/Feet-Wet-Reflections-Carrier-Pilot/dp/B008FUV2SQ/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463097170&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Feet+Wet+Gilcrist (http://www.amazon.com/Feet-Wet-Reflections-Carrier-Pilot/dp/B008FUV2SQ/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463097170&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Feet+Wet+Gilcrist). It's called "Feet Wet". Biography of a Naval aviator who went on to become admiral. If you get time, I highly recommend it. But in the book, Admiral Gilchrist is pretty critical of instructor pilots, especially the one he had. Talks about them being bitter because they were washed-out fighter pilots looking for any way to fail him.
Anyhow, good luck with your training!
Heck, I found the book for free on Google https://45c21f5010fe6081bf68e92f2953d258ee29ad46.googledrive.com/host/0By3PztxxLlG7WEpZS2JVZTlGcmc/Feet-Wet-Reflections-Carrier-Pilot-B008FUV2SQ.pdf
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on May 12, 2016, 07:44:44 PM
The problem isn't that it IS instruments, it's that the instruments were designed as a standby (We have the HUD and two other MFDs), and as a result, they don't work well (They lag, they're not accurate enough, etc.) which makes them a nightmare to revert to under bouncy conditions. As I get more accustomed to just flying the aircraft, it will get easier, but it's basically like trying to drink from a firehose right now.
The PAR is a fun approach once you get the hang of it. I found the key was to be well trimmed, RELAXED (try concentrating on wiggling your toes when you get tensed up), and always make small corrections. Soon all you'll hear is "on glide slope, on course" over and over until you get that "approaching minimums..........minimums" call, you break out, and just land it. Have any of your instructors introduced you to a way of calculating decsent rate in relation to ground speed technique? If not, for example, your ground speed is 120 knots and you are flying a precision 3 degree glide slope. Divide 120 by 2 = 60, add two zeros = 600. That's the approximate feet per minute descent rate at a 120 kt ground speed to maintain the glide path. There are a few 2.5 degree glide slopes around. If that's the case, use the example above and subtract 100 from 600 and your approximate descent rate on a 2.5 degree glide slope is 500 feet per minute. With a little practice, it's easy to make those minute pitch and power corrections when the wind changes and affects your ground speed. This works well on PARs and ILSs.
Also, when you start flying formation in the jet, remember that "wiggle your toes" technique in close formation when you find yourself developing the death grip on the stick. It's another time to stay relaxed and concentrate on small corrections. :salute
:airplane: :airplane:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 13, 2016, 08:24:31 PM
The PAR is a fun approach once you get the hang of it. I found the key was to be well trimmed, RELAXED (try concentrating on wiggling your toes when you get tensed up), and always make small corrections. Soon all you'll hear is "on glide slope, on course" over and over until you get that "approaching minimums..........minimums" call, you break out, and just land it. Have any of your instructors introduced you to a way of calculating decsent rate in relation to ground speed technique? If not, for example, your ground speed is 120 knots and you are flying a precision 3 degree glide slope. Divide 120 by 2 = 60, add two zeros = 600. That's the approximate feet per minute descent rate at a 120 kt ground speed to maintain the glide path. There are a few 2.5 degree glide slopes around. If that's the case, use the example above and subtract 100 from 600 and your approximate descent rate on a 2.5 degree glide slope is 500 feet per minute. With a little practice, it's easy to make those minute pitch and power corrections when the wind changes and affects your ground speed. This works well on PARs and ILSs.
Also, when you start flying formation in the jet, remember that "wiggle your toes" technique in close formation when you find yourself developing the death grip on the stick. It's another time to stay relaxed and concentrate on small corrections. :salute
:airplane: :airplane:
I miss the T-6 days when the ILS and PAR was like riding a train lol. Sitting on rails the whole way down. That's the ground speed calculation we use, it's just rough with that VSI that, well, they even train us to just ignore it because it's so useless lol.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: GScholz on May 13, 2016, 09:29:07 PM
How accurate is your altimeter?
1001 - 1002 - 1003 - read the altimeter. A change of 50 feet = 1000 fpm. 100 feet = 2000 fpm. 150 = 3000 fpm etc.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on May 13, 2016, 11:24:39 PM
I miss the T-6 days when the ILS and PAR was like riding a train lol. Sitting on rails the whole way down. That's the ground speed calculation we use, it's just rough with that VSI that, well, they even train us to just ignore it because it's so useless lol.
Yeah, it's hard to use if the wx conditions aren't smooth. Do they also teach to lower the nose the appropriate glide slope angle at final approach speed when intercepting the glide slope?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 14, 2016, 11:09:15 AM
Yeah, it's hard to use if the wx conditions aren't smooth. Do they also teach to lower the nose the appropriate glide slope angle at final approach speed when intercepting the glide slope?
They do, but it's a matter of lowering from 5 degrees nose high to 2 degrees nose high, and the standby is only marked in 10 degree increments.
1001 - 1002 - 1003 - read the altimeter. A change of 50 feet = 1000 fpm. 100 feet = 2000 fpm. 150 = 3000 fpm etc.
The standby? Not very lol. You can tell 50 ft increments, but not much better than that. I use that rather than the VSI though.
I was doing some shower thinking this morning about what is so different from the T-6 days where I was good at this, and I think I came up with an important difference: in T-6 days we had gouge power settings, and good ones. When you hit MDA you set 54% torque. When you hit the FAF you set 24% torque. 99% of the time that gave you a perfect profile. They didn't teach us power settings for the T-45 so I can't just set the power and get in the ballpark, I'm juggling power, pitch, and trying to keep my head from catching fire. Before my flight today, I'm gonna spend some time asking the IP for some gouge power settings to get in the ballpark.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Golfer on May 14, 2016, 11:34:31 AM
Sounds to me you'll figure it out. Don't blame the equipment, everyone else who made it through used the same stuff or less.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on May 14, 2016, 03:11:02 PM
The standbys are just that. They aren't intended for day to day precision approach work. They are there to get you out of a square corner some day when everything goes sideways. Like Golfer said, everyone else got through it and you will too. Hang tough! :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Golfer on May 14, 2016, 03:33:07 PM
The point of this training is to make you survive when you're out over the ocean, no divert field, you're having a bad day and for whatever reasons your magic lets the smoke out...which does happen. Your only options are to land on the boat or punch out. Clouds above blank out the starlight, water below has none and you've never seen anything so dark and lonely and that little peanut gyro is the only thing between you and a swim in some nice cold water.
Those instruments will look pretty darn primary then and there won't be an instructor in the airplane to play Jesus taking the wheel.
But like I said, that's the point of this training. Make you a steely eyed missile man who can handle it.
I think you're on the verge of having it click and have the right thoughts on what to do going forward at least. When you check out in other airplanes you'll learn to take note of what looks and sounds normal when it's normal so you know what to look and listen for when stuff becomes abnormal. Even other airplanes of the same type are a little different when the have worn out engines and fly a little crooked.
Keep your chin up.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Shuffler on May 14, 2016, 06:22:05 PM
The point of this training is to make you survive when you're out over the ocean, no divert field, you're having a bad day and for whatever reasons your magic lets the smoke out...which does happen. Your only options are to land on the boat or punch out. Clouds above blank out the starlight, water below has none and you've never seen anything so dark and lonely and that little peanut gyro is the only thing between you and a swim in some nice cold water.
Those instruments will look pretty darn primary then and there won't be an instructor in the airplane to play Jesus taking the wheel.
But like I said, that's the point of this training. Make you a steely eyed missile man who can handle it.
I think you're on the verge of having it click and have the right thoughts on what to do going forward at least. When you check out in other airplanes you'll learn to take note of what looks and sounds normal when it's normal so you know what to look and listen for when stuff becomes abnormal. Even other airplanes of the same type are a little different when the have worn out engines and fly a little crooked.
Keep your chin up.
Sound advice!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: zxrex on May 14, 2016, 08:30:48 PM
Not sure if this is applicable for the T-45, but when I went from turbo props to jets I chased the power all over. Definitely could cause problems. There was some lag at the lower power settings. Set the power to what you wanted. Second later or so and it wasn't where I left it. Small corrections with the baseline you're talking about should do it. Good luck!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 14, 2016, 08:55:44 PM
So, round two kicked today. I asked the IP before we walked about gouge power settings. His words: Don't bother. These jets are so cobbled together, that no two are even remotely the same when you get dirty. But, since I nagged him for at least a rough idea, he said the books say 1900 lbs/hour dirty and level, 1700 lbs per hour boards out, descending on profile.
So, we walked out to the jet, got strapped in, started up and started taxiing. I made a comment about how hot it was in the back, and the IP said "Yeah, it's pretty bad up here too, but you've gotta be careful. These ECAs (Environmental Control something-or-other...) SUCK, and in climates like today, they start spitting water at you." I responded with "I wouldn't mind a little water to cool off..." Remember that part, lol.
We went up into the MOA and did our power-on stalls and unusual attitude recoveries. He was happy enough with the departure and those to call the high work there and bring us down for the approaches. Came in on the TACAN, and everything was fine, until about 4,000 ft... The vents started SPRAYING water all over me, soaked my approach plate, covered my visor... I fought through it until we hit the final approach fix, and by that point it was so bad I had to do something. As I moved the vents and wiped my visor off, my scan broke down for a second. Luckily, I caught it about 100ft above MDA, and levelled us off nicely. IP said it was a little "Dive and drivey" for his taste, but we didn't blow through anything, and I could see again! The rest of the TACAN was uneventful, and I asked if we could do a full-panel PAR first so I could get a picture of what "normal" was. I'm glad I did. That 1900lbs per hour fuel setting didn't keep me level dirty, it had me dropping like a rock! 2300 lbs seemed to do it though. The descent was proportional, 2000lbs per hour had me right on glide slope, and I got a couple of slightly below and slightly above calls, but it wasn't bad if I do say so myself. We came around for the partial panel, and it was MUCH better this time. I set the 2300 on the dog leg, and got my scan going on the standbys. At the up and on call, I cracked it, drove the nose down and got the boards out. This time around, a couple more slightly above and slightly below calls than the full panel, but never a full Above or Below! I remembered to set the LAW (Low Altitude Warning) this time (Easy to forget, because it's on the display they take away) and I cheated JUST a little (Decision Height on the PAR is 243, I started my missed approach at what I would estimate at 280) to make sure I didn't blow through, but also to make sure I could take my time and not get spun with the rapid change in configuration. As I got the gear and flaps clean, I did let attitude get away from me a bit (Got us as high as 30 degrees nose high), but got it back under control, and took it around for a no-gyro and a normal PAR, which were all even better than the first two.
Pass complete, and my first phase of Intermediate Jet training is complete!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: GScholz on May 14, 2016, 09:39:14 PM
WTG! :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on May 14, 2016, 10:40:59 PM
Well done! :aok. Way to go! :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Gman on May 14, 2016, 11:12:19 PM
Wtg Serenity!
Great write ups.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Easyscor on May 15, 2016, 01:12:28 AM
Nice. I'm enjoying your writeups!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: deSelys on May 17, 2016, 03:37:17 AM
WTG Serenity!! :aok :)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on May 20, 2016, 06:42:09 PM
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on May 21, 2016, 06:41:49 AM
Ground effect, or probably more specifically wing-in-ground effect is probably the only thing that saved that Rafael? from smashing into the see. Misjudged that loop a bit.
Thanks! (It's not much, you're guaranteed to make JG as long as you don't get a DUI or rape someone...)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: nooby52 on May 23, 2016, 11:05:26 AM
But you are moving forward. :cheers:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on May 23, 2016, 11:54:48 AM
Congratulations! 👍
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 02, 2016, 03:02:00 PM
A day in the life... Part one.
Now that I'm actually doing real flying in the T-45, I thought I would do a write up on a normal day.
Our flight day starts the night before. Our schedule gets published around 1800, so at that time I start checking the website to see if it's out and what I'm doing the next day. Today it happened to be a brief at 1515 for my third Fam Flight (Fam flights are when we move to the front seat for real flying instead of just instrument work).
Trying to be healthy and productive, I get up around 0730 to take the dogs out and go to the gym for about an hour, then home for breakfast/lunch. Spend about an hour relaxing, then an hour studying spanish (I figure it's a useful language to know) then about an hour or two just reviewing random things for the flight. I leave the house at 1345 to make sure I get to the squadron an hour before my brief to set up the board.
Once inside, I set up my white board for the brief. Our call sign, crew, event, last event date and whether or not I'm opted for a warmup at the top of the board. Then, the three questions of the day. Today, they are:
EP: Swerve on Touchdown (rudder as required to counter the swerve, if flyaway airspeed available go around, if unable to go around abort, if blown tire suspected brakes release, anti skid switch off prior to braking, if airborne gear and flaps do not reposition) NATOPS: T/F: after bleed valve is closed, engine should stabilize at 55% +/- 1% RPM at sea level (True) SOP: cross country flight operations (too long to include here lol)
Then come any notes pertinent to the flight, special syllabus requirements, required maneuvers for the flight, and then NOTAMS.
On the computer I pull up weather, radar and satellite images, TFRs, BASH (bird strike risk) the canned briefing for this stage, and I'll type up the knee board card for ,use of and the IP. In addition to being a place to take notes in flight, the kneeboard card will have the pertinent fixed factors for the flight, including scheduled takeoff and land times, area were working, joker and bingo fuel levels, engine and performance minimums, and our plan of execution for today's mission.
At around 1515, my IP for the day will find my room and start the brief. Well review my board, then go to the canned brief on the computer. We start with the normal items: human factors (is there anything going on in our lives which might make us unsafe to fly?), high risk maneuvers (what will be the riskier things we'll be doing today? How will we mitigate those risks? Today we're worried about recovering late from the vertical recovery, compressor stalls during stall recovery, and hard landings during the precautionary approaches), we'll review weather, TFRs, NOTAMS and BASH. We'll review the kneeboard card. We'll also review procedures for changing controls ("I have the controls" "you have the controls" "I have the controls").
Next we talk admin. How will we conduct the preflight inspection? Startup, taxi and Marshall procedures. Takeoff procedures, route of flight, working area, RTB procedures, landing, taxi, shut down, and post flight. We'll also discuss allowable slide times (can we depart late? How late?) Go/No Go criteria for weather or the jet, fallouts/spares (if the jet brakes, can we switch to another?) and weather/BASH procedures.
Next, conduct. In this we review the procedures for all of the individual maneuvers we expect to perform today. In my case, the interesting ones are:
Vertical Recovery: set 280kts level. 3G pull to 60 degrees nose up. As airspeed drops below 180kts, set power to MRT (military rated thrust) and push the nose over to 5-10 AOA (between 0 and 1 G) until the nose is below the horizon. As speed increases through 150kts, recover level.
A series of different stalls
Min radius turn: set 300kts level. Roll 70-80 degrees angle of bank, set MRT and pull to 17 AOA. Maintain 17 AOA and 300kts for 360 degrees of turn. Vary angle of bank to exchange altitude for airspeed to maintain speed. At 360 degrees of turn, roll the opposite direction and repeat.
Aileron roll
Barrel roll
Wing over
Precautionary approaches (the various methods of coming in to land when experiencing engine problems. It's worth noting these approaches are NOT meant to land dead stick, but rather to keep enough airspeed that if you lose the engine you can pull up, point away from the field, and eject).
Finally we brief the possible emergencies and who will do what to handle them. Ground emergencies, aborted takeoff, runway departure, system failures, bird strike, mid air collision, radio/ICS failure, loss of NAVAIDS or lost aircraft, inadvertent IMC, disorientation or vertigo, hypoxia, ejection, SAR, and divert fields.
Then he brief is done and we walk.
We'll go down to maintenance first and sign for the jet. We'll read the book looking for any gripes (problems with the jet) and ensure anything relevant to our flight has been fixed. We'll note the side number and where it's parked, then walk over to the paraloft and gear up. G-suit, harness, survival vest, gloves and helmet all on and strapped down before walking to the flight line.
To be continued after my flight...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: NatCigg on August 02, 2016, 03:24:56 PM
Min radius turn: set 300kts level. Roll 70-80 degrees angle of bank, set MRT and pull to 17 AOA. Maintain 17 AOA and 300kts for 360 degrees of turn. Vary angle of bank to exchange altitude for airspeed to maintain speed. At 360 degrees of turn, roll the opposite direction and repeat.
:rock
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on August 02, 2016, 03:46:46 PM
Just started reading these. Great writeups!! :rock
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 02, 2016, 07:35:40 PM
Part two...
So, I forgot to mention, it's always a good idea to eat before a flight. I eat a LOT lol. Usually two to three of the smuckers uncrustable peanut butter and grape jelly sandwiches, plus maybe a rice crispy, or a bag of chips, all before the brief.
So, we briefed up, got our jet, 263, and went down to maintenance control to sign it out and call in our flight plan. Every flight is IFR, regardless of what we're doing. It's a safety issue, as IFR guarantees a flight following. Additionally, we use a lot of the same flight plans over and over, so we have what are called "canned routes" with individual names. So, for today instead of filing "Hawk 263, NQI-Kings 2 departure-RICTO at 9000-MOA at 23000-BALTS 3000-NQI", we just have to call in "Hawk 263, Premont 2" and all of that is automatic. So, we file and gear up.
We walk to the jet, and run through the startup. It's still a little slow as I have to actually read the checklist (This is only my third startup in the actual jet). We get all started up, and right before we taxi out of the line, the plane captain gives me some weird hand signal I don't recognize. After he repeats it twice more and I'm still confused, he yells at the IP "You've got a loose fitting!" So, I retract the flaps, and a troubleshooter comes out to tighten it down. Well, it's tightened up, he gives me flaps half again and clears us out. We taxi out of the line and to the final checker. All good, out to marshal. Knock out our instrument comparison checks and takeoff checks, and check out with strike on button one "263 out of chocks", and over to ground on button two "Ground, 263 taxi with hotel". "263, taxi 13 right via bravo alpha". We roll out of marshal, and passing the arresting gear, switch button 3 and call tower for departure. "263, cleared for takeoff 13 right, switch to departure". It's worth noting, we change off of tower frequency before even entering the runway. As we cross the hold short, SPIT checks are done (Strobes-On, Pitot Heat-On, IFF-On, Taxi/Landing Lights-On), then MRT and Washout (Throttle to max, controls through the full range of motion, engine instruments checked, hyds checked, voltage checked). "Ready in the front" "Ready in the back" "Rolling". Brakes release. As the HUD speed comes up off of 50kts (The min number) "airspeed alive". Passing 80kts "High speed" (below 80kts, any abort is considered low speed, and we'll abort for basically anything. Above 80kts, it gets a bit more tricky to abort, so our abort criteria gets more limited). Crossing the arresting gear, 106kts indicate "Good line speed". 115kts rotate and climb at 17 AOA. "Two positive rates, above 140, gear and flaps" and we clean up. "Clean below 200, good handle in the front" "Good handle in the back" and checking in with departure "Departure, 263, airborne climbing through 600 ft". "263, radar contact".
As we climb through 2,500 feet, we're still VMC and read to do our thing, so we call up departure "Departure, 263, VMC terminate, request direct". "263, terminate". "263 terminate". We're now cleared to head into the working area, maintain our own separation, and check in on the MOA freq. Climbing through 5,000ft I reset the LAW (RadAlt) to platform, 5,000ft. "99 Alpha, who's working?". Silence. "99 Alpha, single fam taking benevides". So, our working areas in the MOA depend on whether we can see the ground or not. If we can, and today we could, working areas are broken up by the towns they're over, and we have seven. Laguna Salada and Falfurius to the south. Premont right under RICTO. Concepcion in the center. Benevides to the north. Rialitos and Hebronville to the west. We climb to 10,000 and complete our 10,000' checks. Engine instruments good, flight instruments good, hyds 3 x 3, good voltage, cabin altitude 7,000 pressurized, 2.5 (2,500lbs of gas) remaining. We're alone, so we don't have to get to benevides before climbing, so we complete our vertical recovery. With a nice smooth pull up to 60 and a good pushover recovery, we level off at 13,500', right where we wanted to be. We push toward benevides and accelerate to 300kts. "Loose items stowed, map case secure, 2.4, area clear, I'll be ready for the min radius at 300, you ready in the back?" "Stall aerobatic checks complete, I'll be ready at 300" the IP responds, and as we hit 300kts I roll hard left and pull.
The min radius turn is a bit tough, because finding that 17 units is a bit tough at first, and you get what they call the "dirt road effect", where the airframe buffet starts and things feel a little rough. But we hold 300kts nicely, and since the IP didn't feel like wasting gas, we only turned for 180 degrees, rolled back and completed. We came out straight and level on our original heading at 11,300. From there we climbed up to 12,500 and executed our stall series. Recovering from the break turn stall... "deedle deedle" goes the master caution. I look down and the Hyd 2 caution light is on, as is the RAT. So, some engineering here. If hyd 2 pressure drops below a certain point, the RAT, or Ram Air Turbine, extends. It's basically a fan that uses the forward motion and air pressure to run a pump and pressurize hyd 2. As it comes online, the hyd 2 warning light goes out, and we bust out the checklist. Hyd 2 is reading about 2500 lbs, normal for RAT pressure, below normal for normal function. As per the checklist, we reset the hyd 2 system, which brings it back up to pressure and the RAT retracts. We'll monitor that throughout the flight. So, we complete our stall series. From there, it's a wingover for area management, an aileron roll, a barrel roll into another wingover, and a second barrell roll because I wanted to clean it up. From there, we go into UAs, or Unusual Attitude Recovery.
For UAs, the IP takes the stick, you close your eyes, he puts the plane into a weird place, and you open your eyes and recover. The first one was nose low and FAST. 30 degrees nose down, 340kts and accelerating. I bring the throttle back to idle, boards out, and 17 AOA climb back to the horizon. Recovered. Eyes closed. He sets us up again. Eyes open. We're nose high, but with speed, 220kts. Roll inverted, throttle to MRT, and 17 unit pull. Crossing the horizon, roll up right and pull back up. Recovered. That was good enough for him, so we head home. Idle and spiraling down to 9000, we grab ATIS, check out on button 5, and leveling at nine, check in with approach on 13. "Approach, Hawk 263, 9,000, juliet with request". "Hawk 263, ident and say request". Now, we needed a precautionary approach today, and we're still on an IFR clearance wanting a VFR recovery. "Approach, 263 would like to cancel IFR, monitors to high key". "263, maintain VMC to high key, contact tower button 3". We set our 80% power for simulated engine trouble, and maintain 250kts down to 5,000'. We report in to the tower and drive right toward the field. Boards out slightly to slow to 199kts, and crossing the the runways perpendicular, we report high key, and configure. "Below 200, gear half flaps". "Clear". We nose down to hold 175kts, 30 degree angle of bank, and drive down to low key. We report to tower "263, low key, gear". "263, cleared for the option, 13L". In the grove at 1,000ft, we're a bit fast, so we go full flaps and boards. 300', idle, flare. Nice touch down, just before the wires. Boards in, MRT and go. We run about 5 more normal approaches, one without the HUD, and other than waving off once for a bird on final, nothing exciting.
We make our final landing, roll out, and start shutting everything off taxiing back to base. This IP isn't a fan of a long debrief, so we talk about everything during the taxi. Back in the line, shut down, and of course, no one brings us a ladder. Damnit! I hate having to use the built-in steps. It's NOT easy lol. I make it down without killing myself, walk back inside, and take my gear off.
Tired, sweaty, you can see the mask lines around my face.
Well, we're done for the day, off home, and check my schedule for tomorrow. I've got a ground school class in the morning, and a flight in the afternoon.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: SIK1 on August 02, 2016, 07:47:12 PM
Great stuff! :aok
:salute Sik
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: nooby52 on August 02, 2016, 08:02:08 PM
Ditto!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Gman on August 03, 2016, 12:28:48 AM
Great write ups, as always, very interesting to read.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Oldman731 on August 03, 2016, 09:44:38 PM
call tower for departure. "263, cleared for takeoff 13 right, switch to departure". It's worth noting, we change off of tower frequency before even entering the runway.
Interesting, seems like a good idea. I've had tower complain because I switched to departure without instructions. This makes mores sense.
Thanks so much for taking the time to give us the details like you did. Great stuff.
- oldman
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Shuffler on August 03, 2016, 10:19:14 PM
OK you have another fan! Good read.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 04, 2016, 07:55:43 AM
Interesting, seems like a good idea. I've had tower complain because I switched to departure without instructions. This makes mores sense.
Thanks so much for taking the time to give us the details like you did. Great stuff.
- oldman
What makes it odd to me is that we're on departure with other jets overhead. In primary, you remain on tower for takeoff, then once you're clear of the pattern, you roll to departure. That way, you know if someone is about to break over you, etc, and you can track what's around you. Granted, here MOST breaks, touch and goes and landings are to the left runway (we have two sets of parallels) and takeoffs are on the right, but it's certainly not unheard of to land right, or even set up for right of the right right break. Logic tells me to stay tower just to hear where everyone is around me, but SOP says change on deck.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on August 04, 2016, 08:32:43 AM
Logic tells me to stay tower just to hear where everyone is around me, but SOP says change on deck.
I'm with you, I want to be listening to tower to stay in the loop on the local traffic.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: NatCigg on August 04, 2016, 12:40:05 PM
did some crabby ol guy complain about playing with dials just after takeoff. or possibly they don't want a chance of losing you in the air due to a radio issue?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Russian on August 05, 2016, 10:13:21 PM
It would make sense for none standard formation to switch to departure before hand...but as singleton.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 21, 2016, 10:40:58 AM
Well, apparently someone thought it was a good idea to toss me the keys to a jet for a bit... first jet solo complete! Fairly uneventful, though the GINA (GPS/INS system) was a nightmare on startup... had to be reset three times due to no headings indicated... I called a troubleshooter out, and literally AS he climbed the ladder to the cockpit, the headings popped up...
Went up into the MOA, and just kinda dicked around for a bit. There was no one else up there, and there were a BUNCH of clouds I'm not allowed to fly THROUGH alone... so I did barrel rolls AROUND them, immelmans up over them, split Ss down through other holes... It was a beautiful scene, with a sea of clouds just before sunset, and it's still pretty amazing to be able to immelman from 13,000 right up to 21,000. After about 20 to 30 minutes of cloud surfing, I used a Split S to get down out of the MOA, and head on home. The break was uneventful, and I did about 6 FCLP passes (Field Carrier Landing Practice, basically a touch and go on the painted carrier box) and of course, the one time there's no one to see it, my ball flying was pretty good! Landed, taxied on in, and called it a day!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on August 21, 2016, 10:54:56 AM
uneventful is good.
Is that the hanger? kind of a tent structure? and also is that towbar sticking out of the front wheelset or what is that? chute in the square green bag?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 21, 2016, 11:17:32 AM
Is that the hanger? kind of a tent structure? and also is that towbar sticking out of the front wheelset or what is that? chute in the square green bag?
Well, we have an actual hangar for maintenance, and then the line where the flying jets are parked is a bunch of dome tent-like covers, really just to keep the sun off of you while starting up, otherwise it's hotter than hell, being south Texas and all. The bar on the front of the nose gear is the launch bar, that's what connects to the catapult on the ship for cat launches. And no, the chute it built into the seat itself. The green bag is my helmet bag, so it's the bag I stuff next to the seat with everything I need for the flight, so iPad, pubs, kneeboard, anything else I want to carry with me in the cockpit.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on August 21, 2016, 11:46:37 AM
oh a launch bar...didn't even think of that. Thanks for answering my questions.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 21, 2016, 12:00:30 PM
... The green bag is my helmet bag, so it's the bag I stuff next to the seat with everything I need for the flight, so iPad, pubs, kneeboard, anything else I want to carry with me in the cockpit.
Ok, gonna bite. What do we use the iPad for? Checklists? Manuals? Forms? Only pad I had in the military was the folding notepad with pencil variety... :D
(Which I still have)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 23, 2016, 09:39:06 AM
Ok, gonna bite. What do we use the iPad for? Checklists? Manuals? Forms? Only pad I had in the military was the folding notepad with pencil variety... :D
(Which I still have)
In the jet, I'm not allowed to use it yet. But it has the full NATOPs manual, plus every checklist on it, every manual and pub, my entire collection of literature on Naval aviation, plus every map, every chart, every approach plate for every airport in the country, and if I kick in an extra $100 a year, every airport in the world. The iPad actually has better nav information than the jet itself.
For me, I'm only allowed to use it on the ground, so rather than pencil and paper on an old school map, I can use the foreflight app to plan my flight, from an airport to a waypoint, to the corresponding airway, all the way through the approach on one little screen with real time weather inputs kicking out my time of flight, fuel burn, wind corrected headings, etc. (Yes, I'm capable of the pencil and paper way, but this turns what used to be a 3 hour task to about 30 minutes). Once in the jet, the IPs all use an iPad in place of a kneeboard, as they can still take notes on it, but the GPS with the foreflight app provide all of the approach plates and nav information I would usually be strapping to my left leg in paper form, and you've never struggled until you're in the weather, heavy turbulence, on the missed approach getting vectors at jet speeds and try to flip a paper booklet with the THINNEST paper you've ever seen, with one hand, while flying the jet with the other... I've torn every approach plate to shreds because of this lol. Being able to swipe with one finger and have the next plate up is worth its weight in gold.
While I'm not allowed to use it in flight, I take it with me in case we ever have to divert, or when I'm on an out-and-in flight, because I can plan the next flight and even file it directly from the ipad while having lunch. I hate apple products, but having a tablet and the Foreflight app is the most amazing thing to happen to aviation (Especially military aviation) since the turbine engine.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Oldman731 on August 23, 2016, 09:59:55 AM
having a tablet and the Foreflight app is the most amazing thing to happen to aviation (Especially military aviation) since the turbine engine.
Agreed.
- oldman
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Maverick on August 23, 2016, 11:14:30 AM
I would add GPS to the list there. Yeah I know the pad has GPS but I'm talking about the one capable of doing full approach accuracy as well as just basic navigation. Way better than the old DME etc.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 23, 2016, 12:54:57 PM
I would add GPS to the list there. Yeah I know the pad has GPS but I'm talking about the one capable of doing full approach accuracy as well as just basic navigation. Way better than the old DME etc.
Sadly, though the T-6 was RNAV-capable and qualified, the T-45 is NOT. In other words, technically, the jet has NO GPS as far as the FAA is concerned. We can program waypoints and back ourselves up with it, but actually navigating off of it is strictly verboten. Not that you ever want to use waypoints outside of the local area, since you have to manually enter their lat/long coordinates into the system first...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on August 23, 2016, 06:38:06 PM
My level III instructor down in Texas was telling me about personal flight computers. They have to have solid state hard drives, as conventional hard drives actually need a thin cushion of air to operate. He was,is, a sharp guy, and an engineer. He built his own personal flight computer with a solid state drive.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 24, 2016, 08:33:06 AM
My level III instructor down in Texas was telling me about personal flight computers. They have to have solid state hard drives, as conventional hard drives actually need a thin cushion of air to operate. He was,is, a sharp guy, and an engineer. He built his own personal flight computer with a solid state drive.
Hmmm... Does a pressurized cockpit negate that need? I know iPads replacing kneeboards is a pretty standard thing throughout the fleet, and those aren't SSDs.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Golfer on August 24, 2016, 02:35:39 PM
Hmmm... Does a pressurized cockpit negate that need? I know iPads replacing kneeboards is a pretty standard thing throughout the fleet, and those aren't SSDs.
No but they do need decompression testing in order to be approved for use. iPads are fine.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on August 24, 2016, 05:10:01 PM
Hmmm... Does a pressurized cockpit negate that need? I know iPads replacing kneeboards is a pretty standard thing throughout the fleet, and those aren't SSDs.
I'm pretty sure iPads use flash memory, right? So that's very similar to a solid state drive.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: earl1937 on August 27, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
So, I forgot to mention, it's always a good idea to eat before a flight. I eat a LOT lol. Usually two to three of the smuckers uncrustable peanut butter and grape jelly sandwiches, plus maybe a rice crispy, or a bag of chips, all before the brief.
So, we briefed up, got our jet, 263, and went down to maintenance control to sign it out and call in our flight plan. Every flight is IFR, regardless of what we're doing. It's a safety issue, as IFR guarantees a flight following. Additionally, we use a lot of the same flight plans over and over, so we have what are called "canned routes" with individual names. So, for today instead of filing "Hawk 263, NQI-Kings 2 departure-RICTO at 9000-MOA at 23000-BALTS 3000-NQI", we just have to call in "Hawk 263, Premont 2" and all of that is automatic. So, we file and gear up.
We walk to the jet, and run through the startup. It's still a little slow as I have to actually read the checklist (This is only my third startup in the actual jet). We get all started up, and right before we taxi out of the line, the plane captain gives me some weird hand signal I don't recognize. After he repeats it twice more and I'm still confused, he yells at the IP "You've got a loose fitting!" So, I retract the flaps, and a troubleshooter comes out to tighten it down. Well, it's tightened up, he gives me flaps half again and clears us out. We taxi out of the line and to the final checker. All good, out to marshal. Knock out our instrument comparison checks and takeoff checks, and check out with strike on button one "263 out of chocks", and over to ground on button two "Ground, 263 taxi with hotel". "263, taxi 13 right via bravo alpha". We roll out of marshal, and passing the arresting gear, switch button 3 and call tower for departure. "263, cleared for takeoff 13 right, switch to departure". It's worth noting, we change off of tower frequency before even entering the runway. As we cross the hold short, SPIT checks are done (Strobes-On, Pitot Heat-On, IFF-On, Taxi/Landing Lights-On), then MRT and Washout (Throttle to max, controls through the full range of motion, engine instruments checked, hyds checked, voltage checked). "Ready in the front" "Ready in the back" "Rolling". Brakes release. As the HUD speed comes up off of 50kts (The min number) "airspeed alive". Passing 80kts "High speed" (below 80kts, any abort is considered low speed, and we'll abort for basically anything. Above 80kts, it gets a bit more tricky to abort, so our abort criteria gets more limited). Crossing the arresting gear, 106kts indicate "Good line speed". 115kts rotate and climb at 17 AOA. "Two positive rates, above 140, gear and flaps" and we clean up. "Clean below 200, good handle in the front" "Good handle in the back" and checking in with departure "Departure, 263, airborne climbing through 600 ft". "263, radar contact".
As we climb through 2,500 feet, we're still VMC and read to do our thing, so we call up departure "Departure, 263, VMC terminate, request direct". "263, terminate". "263 terminate". We're now cleared to head into the working area, maintain our own separation, and check in on the MOA freq. Climbing through 5,000ft I reset the LAW (RadAlt) to platform, 5,000ft. "99 Alpha, who's working?". Silence. "99 Alpha, single fam taking benevides". So, our working areas in the MOA depend on whether we can see the ground or not. If we can, and today we could, working areas are broken up by the towns they're over, and we have seven. Laguna Salada and Falfurius to the south. Premont right under RICTO. Concepcion in the center. Benevides to the north. Rialitos and Hebronville to the west. We climb to 10,000 and complete our 10,000' checks. Engine instruments good, flight instruments good, hyds 3 x 3, good voltage, cabin altitude 7,000 pressurized, 2.5 (2,500lbs of gas) remaining. We're alone, so we don't have to get to benevides before climbing, so we complete our vertical recovery. With a nice smooth pull up to 60 and a good pushover recovery, we level off at 13,500', right where we wanted to be. We push toward benevides and accelerate to 300kts. "Loose items stowed, map case secure, 2.4, area clear, I'll be ready for the min radius at 300, you ready in the back?" "Stall aerobatic checks complete, I'll be ready at 300" the IP responds, and as we hit 300kts I roll hard left and pull.
The min radius turn is a bit tough, because finding that 17 units is a bit tough at first, and you get what they call the "dirt road effect", where the airframe buffet starts and things feel a little rough. But we hold 300kts nicely, and since the IP didn't feel like wasting gas, we only turned for 180 degrees, rolled back and completed. We came out straight and level on our original heading at 11,300. From there we climbed up to 12,500 and executed our stall series. Recovering from the break turn stall... "deedle deedle" goes the master caution. I look down and the Hyd 2 caution light is on, as is the RAT. So, some engineering here. If hyd 2 pressure drops below a certain point, the RAT, or Ram Air Turbine, extends. It's basically a fan that uses the forward motion and air pressure to run a pump and pressurize hyd 2. As it comes online, the hyd 2 warning light goes out, and we bust out the checklist. Hyd 2 is reading about 2500 lbs, normal for RAT pressure, below normal for normal function. As per the checklist, we reset the hyd 2 system, which brings it back up to pressure and the RAT retracts. We'll monitor that throughout the flight. So, we complete our stall series. From there, it's a wingover for area management, an aileron roll, a barrel roll into another wingover, and a second barrell roll because I wanted to clean it up. From there, we go into UAs, or Unusual Attitude Recovery.
For UAs, the IP takes the stick, you close your eyes, he puts the plane into a weird place, and you open your eyes and recover. The first one was nose low and FAST. 30 degrees nose down, 340kts and accelerating. I bring the throttle back to idle, boards out, and 17 AOA climb back to the horizon. Recovered. Eyes closed. He sets us up again. Eyes open. We're nose high, but with speed, 220kts. Roll inverted, throttle to MRT, and 17 unit pull. Crossing the horizon, roll up right and pull back up. Recovered. That was good enough for him, so we head home. Idle and spiraling down to 9000, we grab ATIS, check out on button 5, and leveling at nine, check in with approach on 13. "Approach, Hawk 263, 9,000, juliet with request". "Hawk 263, ident and say request". Now, we needed a precautionary approach today, and we're still on an IFR clearance wanting a VFR recovery. "Approach, 263 would like to cancel IFR, monitors to high key". "263, maintain VMC to high key, contact tower button 3". We set our 80% power for simulated engine trouble, and maintain 250kts down to 5,000'. We report in to the tower and drive right toward the field. Boards out slightly to slow to 199kts, and crossing the the runways perpendicular, we report high key, and configure. "Below 200, gear half flaps". "Clear". We nose down to hold 175kts, 30 degree angle of bank, and drive down to low key. We report to tower "263, low key, gear". "263, cleared for the option, 13L". In the grove at 1,000ft, we're a bit fast, so we go full flaps and boards. 300', idle, flare. Nice touch down, just before the wires. Boards in, MRT and go. We run about 5 more normal approaches, one without the HUD, and other than waving off once for a bird on final, nothing exciting.
We make our final landing, roll out, and start shutting everything off taxiing back to base. This IP isn't a fan of a long debrief, so we talk about everything during the taxi. Back in the line, shut down, and of course, no one brings us a ladder. Damnit! I hate having to use the built-in steps. It's NOT easy lol. I make it down without killing myself, walk back inside, and take my gear off.
Tired, sweaty, you can see the mask lines around my face.
Well, we're done for the day, off home, and check my schedule for tomorrow. I've got a ground school class in the morning, and a flight in the afternoon.
:airplane: OK, guess you lost me on that turn...you entered at 13,500, made a 180 degree turn and completed it at 11,200 feet? You lost 2300 feet in the turn and it was OK? Clear that one up please, maybe I am confused, but you should had no more than 100 feet plus or minus for that turn!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 27, 2016, 12:52:39 PM
:airplane: OK, guess you lost me on that turn...you entered at 13,500, made a 180 degree turn and completed it at 11,200 feet? You lost 2300 feet in the turn and it was OK? Clear that one up please, maybe I am confused, but you should had no more than 100 feet plus or minus for that turn!
The Minimum Radius Turn is NOT a level turn. The requirements are to maintain a constant speed (300 KIAS) and a constant AOA (17 units). In order to maintain these two constants, you HAVE to sacrifice altitude to maintain speed. We see anywhere between 10 degrees and 3 degrees nose down throughout the maneuver. And it's not a single turn 180 degree turn, it's 180 degrees, followed by a snap roll in the other direction, and another turn the opposite way, so its 360 degrees total, coming out on the initial heading.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on August 27, 2016, 07:20:50 PM
Pretty funny that the navy is doing the EFB thing with the ipads, while the USAF is so risk adverse that it'll never happen in the training environment. If you can't print it and it isn't in the GPS database already, then you apparently don't need it, per USAF dinosaurs.
You see, if they did EFB, then it would need certifying. And adding to the training syllabus. And to prevent FOD they'd need a secure enough bracket in the cockpit designed and certified that it would not break, yet it would have to somehow automatically fold or break away during ejection to avoid injury. Plus distraction, plus selfies, plus unauthorized videos, plus porn in the cockpit, plus facebook/Instagram/skype/whatever.
Plus, its just not how things are done around here. 1947 is a fine tech level for pilot training thankyouverymuch.
Not that I'm a fan of change for the sake of change and spending a lot of time flying the "round dials" helps airmanship in my opinion, but EFBs are pretty standard and I think almost all operational aircraft of all types use some sort of add-on electronic device for SA or mission enhancement so its just funny that the Navy is putting ipads in the cockpit while the USAF is still futzing around trying to tell pilots that they can't wear "fun factor" morale patches in the bar on Friday or squadron t-shirts. Priorities, ya know.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 28, 2016, 02:02:59 PM
Pretty funny that the navy is doing the EFB thing with the ipads, while the USAF is so risk adverse that it'll never happen in the training environment. If you can't print it and it isn't in the GPS database already, then you apparently don't need it, per USAF dinosaurs.
You see, if they did EFB, then it would need certifying. And adding to the training syllabus. And to prevent FOD they'd need a secure enough bracket in the cockpit designed and certified that it would not break, yet it would have to somehow automatically fold or break away during ejection to avoid injury. Plus distraction, plus selfies, plus unauthorized videos, plus porn in the cockpit, plus facebook/Instagram/skype/whatever.
Plus, its just not how things are done around here. 1947 is a fine tech level for pilot training thankyouverymuch.
Not that I'm a fan of change for the sake of change and spending a lot of time flying the "round dials" helps airmanship in my opinion, but EFBs are pretty standard and I think almost all operational aircraft of all types use some sort of add-on electronic device for SA or mission enhancement so its just funny that the Navy is putting ipads in the cockpit while the USAF is still futzing around trying to tell pilots that they can't wear "fun factor" morale patches in the bar on Friday or squadron t-shirts. Priorities, ya know.
Well, the Navy isn't putting anything anywhere. IPs are allowed to provide their own iPads for use in flight, at their own risk and expense. Students SHALL NOT operate iPads in flight, or use them for anything in the cockpit. For me, it comes along for planning purposes between sorties.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on August 31, 2016, 01:32:09 AM
Well, the Navy isn't putting anything anywhere. IPs are allowed to provide their own iPads for use in flight, at their own risk and expense. Students SHALL NOT operate iPads in flight, or use them for anything in the cockpit. For me, it comes along for planning purposes between sorties.
In the AF, just having it in the cockpit could easily result in disciplinary action or loss of flight status, for either IPs or students...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 31, 2016, 07:59:05 AM
The Minimum Radius Turn is NOT a level turn. The requirements are to maintain a constant speed (300 KIAS) and a constant AOA (17 units). In order to maintain these two constants, you HAVE to sacrifice altitude to maintain speed. We see anywhere between 10 degrees and 3 degrees nose down throughout the maneuver. And it's not a single turn 180 degree turn, it's 180 degrees, followed by a snap roll in the other direction, and another turn the opposite way, so its 360 degrees total, coming out on the initial heading.
:airplane: I like your post's, but don't understand the lingo sometimes! Why would they teach you a minimum radius turn to use in a combat situation? Of course I understand that the Navy and Air Force have two different attitudes toward the use of the throttle, one says elevator controls airspeed, the other says elevator controls altitude! Why way are they teaching you?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on September 01, 2016, 03:57:25 PM
:airplane: I like your post's, but don't understand the lingo sometimes! Why would they teach you a minimum radius turn to use in a combat situation? Of course I understand that the Navy and Air Force have two different attitudes toward the use of the throttle, one says elevator controls airspeed, the other says elevator controls altitude! Why way are they teaching you?
I think the purpose of the min radius turn is to practice sustaining airspeed and AOA under G. Similar to the S1 and S3 patterns, the maneuver itself is useless, but it's used to build muscle memory and a basic monkey skill that will be expanded on at a later point.
As far as what the elevator controls, the difference in theory only comes into effect when on final approach to landing. For the navy, elevator controls airspeed for one simple reason: Geometry. For a given airspeed, your angle of attack (True AOA, not the attitude) is always the same, meaning at a given airspeed, your hook is always at the same angle to the earth. So, you use the nose to achieve "on-speed", the ideal angle of attack for hook engagement, and use power to control your rate of descent. It's all about that hook!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on September 08, 2016, 10:32:24 AM
So they've certainly given up on my instrument training. I'm in the AirNav portion, which is supposed to focus on aerial navigation, so long distance legs across several jet routes. multiple navaid changes, and occasionally an enroute destination change. I have 5 flights in the block, and the syllabus even emphasis that in the event a cross-country (And we REALLY mean crossing the country, not the private pilot "Go to a field 20 minutes away"), two out-and-ins (Take off at home field, go somewhere else, land, gas up, return home) SHALL be accomplished, and it says the reason for this is getting us as far from the local environment as possible provides the best training. As of last night, I've completed 4 of the 5 flights. Two out and ins, to... Corpus Christi.
Why is this such a load of crap for my training? This is how an out and in to corpus goes:
Takeoff. Departure: "261, climb maintain 5,000. Crossing 3,000 turn left 050" "261, 5,000, crossing 3 050". As I get on heading I'm already at altitude, and immediately get "261, contact corpus christi approach, 120.9" "261, 120.9" "Corpus Approach, 261, level 5 negative numbers with request" (I haven't even had time to get their ATIS because this whole process has taken 3 minutes so far). "261, altimeter three triple zero, say request" "261 would like 4 tacan 18 approaches" "261, roger, vectors to final TACAN 18".
And that's it. Corpus is only 30 minutes away by car. Doing "air navigation" flights there is outright insulting.
That being said, it's very clearly NOT a good time to be in a Goshawk...
And that's it. Corpus is only 30 minutes away by car
In my view, probably 90% of an instrument rating is focused on the ten minutes before landing. The cross country stuff is easy, relaxing compared to VFR because you have ATC watching traffic for you. Your instructors are cutting out the easy stuff so you can focus on what counts.
My instructor used to made me do the PNE ILS 24, then the miss, the hold, then the ILS 6 to TTN, then the miss...it got very confusing, especially single pilot. You will be learning how to do six things at once, in addition to keeping the plane 100 feet +- your alt. Instrument rating I thought was far more difficult than the license.
Oldman
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on September 12, 2016, 01:40:01 AM
A rite of passage in USAF T-38 training used to be the HI ILS 21 KROW...
In my view, probably 90% of an instrument rating is focused on the ten minutes before landing. The cross country stuff is easy, relaxing compared to VFR because you have ATC watching traffic for you. Your instructors are cutting out the easy stuff so you can focus on what counts.
I get that, but going to Corpus, where I've shot ALL of the approaches at least a half a dozen times a piece, isn't very good training as I already know it like the back of my hand. That's more the reason that the syllabus calls for going somewhere else, just to provide something new and challenging rather than the same approaches we've been doing for months.
lol now that I've had my coffee (and it's no longer 0400) I can see that a little more clearly. That NDB kinda threw me for a loop. I can honestly say I've never encountered one, but I've also never flown an aircraft with ADF capability.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on September 12, 2016, 03:32:25 PM
You don't need NDB/ADF for that HI ILS at roswell... You can fly it all off the VORTAC. Having the marker under the IAF holding track is confusing but the actual holding fix is off the VORTAC. I think only the alternate missed approach procedure uses the NDB. I suppose you could use the marker if its in your GPS database but to my knowledge, that would be considered a "backup" procedure since using the GPS as an alternative to the raw radio signal is always just a backup. So the primary gameplan would be simple vortac/ILS/LOC w/ DME. Gonking the named points into your GPS flight plan would be a reasonable SA backup in the event of radio navaid failure that could permit continuing an non-precision approach in the event of DME failure, but that would essentially be an emergency procedure, swapping navaids during the approach, but in mil flying sometimes ya do what ya gotta do and explain it to the board or the FAA once on the ground.
I *think* technically you could fly the final approach portion (ILS only not LOC or circling) with just VOR/ILS and no DME since you could use the LOM to verify glidepath intercept, but I'd want to verify that with a current inst instructor before going in there without the equipment its designed for. And of course if you're just getting vectors to final then there's no reason to use the HI approach anyhow.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on September 30, 2016, 07:28:50 PM
Brag time... Today, after exactly 5 formation flights, I had my Baby Form Solo. Not a lot to it. Take off, running rendezvous, 0-360 Tacan Rendezvous, 5 Break and rendezvous maneuvers, then a section drag into the break. I'm a little tipsy as this is my first night off all week, lol, but if there's any interest, I'd be happy to explain those terms. Otherwise, here are the pics of me in 257, or Tweek 1-2 as our Tac was today. Disclaimer: All pictures were taken by a NATOPS qualified pilot, in the back seat of the lead aircraft, NOT listed as a functional air crew. He was NOT engaged in the operation, navigation, or in any functional capacity at any point in the flight; He was there purely for the purpose of photography.
I wish I could sneak her in for a flight, but she got motion sick in a Cessna. She'd never hang on in this toejam lol.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Shuffler on October 01, 2016, 09:04:41 AM
Great pics
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on October 01, 2016, 12:41:14 PM
Great memories :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 02, 2017, 06:47:33 AM
I have returned, alive, from our detachment to the California desert. Not many pics, but I'll see what I can find.
So my wing spent the last month in El Centro CA for our Weps detachment. On the training schedule were bombing: manual (bore sight) and CCIP; ONAV (500 ft AGL and 360kts) and Road Recce ("how much damage can two dudes do once the SEAD rolls through?").
Manual bombing was a s*** show. I was the first wave, and weather was BAD. Clouds forced us low (we have 3 patterns, a 30 degree, for the best accuracy, flown at 8k AGL, a 20 degree no one does, and a 10 degree which gives the worst errors, at 2.5 AGL). Well, ALL of my manual flights were in the 10 degree for weather, and winds were gusting up to 50kts, so my scores were all around 130 (average distance from bullseye in feet). The second wave of guys got nice calm winds and good weather, so they had MUCH better scores. But my CCIP score was the best score of the Det at 17ft!
There was a class of Navy SEALs going through JTAC school, and the Navy decided that they should see what bombing attacks look like for the guys in the air, so they got back seat rides in our jets. It was HILLARIOUS. These dudes had their tridents, they'd seen some s***, so they walked in all stoic and serious. But once they got off the ground, they were like little kids, taking pictures of everything! When they landed, they couldn't stop smiling and talking about how cool it was. It makes you feel pretty aweso,e when a Navy SEAL can't stop talking about how badass your job is! Oh, and every one of them puked lol.
The ONAVs went both ways, depending on where your IP came from. Believe it or not, we DO have E2/C2 guys and even P-3 guys teaching us. The premise of ONAVs is a day one coordinated strike. You're sneaking in low to pop up and attack a target and get back out under the radar. Big wing guys wanted you AT 500 AGL, or slightly above, and at a CONSTANT 360kts, following the straight line planned route. If your LAW (Low Altitude Warning, based on the Radar Altimeter) went off, they wanted you announcing it, saying why it went off, and saying what you were doing to fix it ASAP. The strike guys were MUCH more fun. They wanted you lower, faster, they wanted you hiding behind mountains, sneaking low through valleys and using the terrain to mask your signature. If your LAW DIDNT go off from time to time, it meant you weren't being aggressive enough. And if you saw a highway with cars, you BETTER do some rolls over the cars. As one IP put it, "the most important part about being an Aviator is looking cool!" It was a LOT more fun with Strike guys. I'm glad I'm in this community!
Road Recces were two plane events, two students flying 3-4K theoretically flying over enemy airspace after the SAMs had been knocked out. We would fly over strategic targets, in theory gaining visual intel, but in practice you were supposed to be attacking targets of opportunity. We popped for simulated simultaneous rocket attacks on power plants, pumping stations, bridges and airports. Bonus points if you got a valid attack on a moving train. It was a lot of fun, and really emphasized just how terrifying an air wing could be if we were in a WWII type "kill anything that moves" scenario.
It was a GREAT time, and I'll try to get some pictures up when I get home. All that's left now is night formations, section low levels (only about 4 flights each), BFM and then the boat! I'm expecting my wings at the end of April!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on February 02, 2017, 07:02:55 AM
Thanks for the sitrep. Your write-ups are fun reads. :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on February 02, 2017, 07:18:46 AM
Sounds pretty cool, looking fwd to any pics. :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 02, 2017, 07:35:29 AM
I've got nothing better to do than upload from my phone right now lol.
Could be south of you, but more likely it's north of you. Foley Alabama is what we call Area 1 and the South MOA. Just east of Foley is NOLF Barin, where students fly their first 4 flights. Slightly higher up (7k up to 26k) we do aerobatics.
Foley is a cool place to retire. My retired-Marine brother lives there, and it's close to a lot of fun things: fishing, swimming, camping, laying about on the most gorgeous beaches, and great food. When I retire I may join him there.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: deSelys on February 07, 2017, 09:03:39 AM
What's the A-6 sitting next to the Fire Dept for? Fire Training?
Can you get a profile picture of it?
Unfortunately I'm back in Kingsville, so no luck on more pictures, but I imagine it was used either for familiarization of aircraft, or it was just left there because they had nowhere else to put it. I taxied past it every day, and there are no burn marks and no obvious saw cuts, just every panel hanging open, and stripped of parts.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Nefarious on February 07, 2017, 09:30:29 AM
Was curious if you could get a BuNo, I belong to a group that tracks A-6 bunos.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on February 07, 2017, 03:41:47 PM
Even the F-4 was equipped with a carrier auto-land feature. It worked very well. Why do pilots still land manually on carriers?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 07, 2017, 07:03:20 PM
Even the F-4 was equipped with a carrier auto-land feature. It worked very well. Why do pilots still land manually on carriers?
Uh... wut?
Auto-land isn't a thing. "Magic Carpet" helps take the 'five-knuckle-shuffle' feeling out of your throttle hand, but you're still working the aircraft. And "magic carpet" passes don't count for score, Rhinos still have to meet a quota of full-manual passes for a very simple reason: Systems fail. A lot. I've seen a failure of every single system of both the T-6 and the T-45 either in my own aircraft or an aircraft in my flight. And unlike the Air Force, who can go find a bigger, longer, 'safer' runway to land on, when you're at the boat, good jet or bad, you have exactly two options: Land on the boat, or eject.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: zxrex on February 07, 2017, 09:19:24 PM
Ahh.. DaveBB is just jealous. Trying to rain on your parade. He got booted from drone school.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on February 07, 2017, 09:27:04 PM
Ahh.. DaveBB is just jealous. Trying to rain on your parade. He got booted from drone school.
Back in my day we strapped a .45 to a pair of pigeons.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: JimmyC on February 08, 2017, 02:30:29 PM
Great write up Spaz.. you are living the dream.. So proud..(hes a squaddie since a sqeeker!) Keep at it, you got it down.. "the most important part about being an Aviator is looking cool!"
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on February 08, 2017, 04:05:29 PM
No, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I've read about it many times. In fact, here is a manual from 1982 on the Automatic Carrier Landing System:
How effective is the Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS)? Do pilots use it or do they prefer manual landings?
Tim Hibbetts, Naval Aviator, Airline Pilot, Aerospace Eng Major Updated 10 Mar 2016
Optimally, the Automatic Carrier Landing System lays down the jet's tailhook inside a box 2 feet wide and 6 feet long. If that sounds awesome, think a couple ticks higher; it's astounding. This naturally moves one to marvel that it isn't used all the time.
A review of the ACLS, first, though: an aircraft approaching the carrier from astern is locked by a special radar, the pilot engages the autopilot and autothrottles, and both controller and pilot accept the ship's systems coupling with the jet. This happens beyond five or six miles. The jet rides down this magic beam, making micro-adjustments with engines and flight controls to maintain the intense precision required. In these few sentences, it should be obvious that a lot of things have to align and stay aligned for the entire approach. This happens about 60-80% of the time. For the rest of the approaches, the pilot must take over and manually land the plane. The closer to the ship, the more dangerous the shift. Because of this, most squadrons only let the veteran pilots couple up. With dicey weather and a pitching deck, interest ramps up, in a burning-rectum sort of way.
Let's say you're a journeyman in a skill that took years to achieve. It's a perishable skill—one that needs constant tuning and can kill you if it lapses. Automation gets the job done, but you gain no skill or confidence in the process. It's also not going to work all of the time and as conditions worsen, will fail more often. Why in the world would you ever not practice that skill unless driven by absolute need? I never did. In fact, unless you already had several hundred carrier arrested landings and pre-announced your intent to test the systems, no self-respecting naval aviator did so. It's a good indicator that it's time to move on to less dangerous endeavors.
Development of the F/A-18A automatic carrier landing system http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/3.19978?journalCode=jgcd
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: PR3D4TOR on February 08, 2017, 05:43:07 PM
Hibbetts also answered your question why pilots still land manually on carriers.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on February 08, 2017, 08:19:06 PM
No, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I've read about it many times. In fact, here is a manual from 1982 on the Automatic Carrier Landing System:
Development of the F/A-18A automatic carrier landing system http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/3.19978?journalCode=jgcd
Hornet Autoland System is fairly famous. Same with the programmed launch mode.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on February 08, 2017, 10:11:06 PM
The airbus A320 I'm flying for a living now can also do autoland out of an ILS, and its pretty good. Lands darn close to centerline in any weather and will auto-brake down the centerline too. Touchdowns are about as firm as the "average" airline pilot, I'd say. We rarely use it though, because if you can't land the plane in all weather, what happens when the ILS is out of service on a bad weather day? No ejection seats, and sometimes there isn't a better alternate. So we manually land pretty much every landing except when the weather is so bad we are require by regulation to use auto-land. And during the auto-land sequence we are monitoring the process every second, ready to take over if any of the automation doesn't work or if the approach is unstable for any reason.
Because if we can't land it when the automation doesn't work, then we're dead, and that isn't acceptable.
That line of reasoning goes double for a Navy pilot, who has to deal with not only bad weather but also a runway that may be moving unpredictably and landing guidance systems that may be malfunctioning or destroyed by battle damage. You need to be able stick the landing, by hand, every time. Because you never know if the automation is going to be available when conditions suck.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on February 08, 2017, 11:11:44 PM
It's obviously company- and situation-dependent. I hear autolands all the time on the radio. I've not bothered to find out the why.
One of my flightschool buds is a 777 Captain and he jokes that the plane lands as good or better than they do. I suspect he's not far off the mark.
By the time you get to that level of technology (A320, 777, 787, G650, etc.) if you can't land when called upon, especially with the reps an airline pilot gets--which is way WAY more than any military guy that isn't in AMC--it is time to pick a different career.
I sometimes go several weeks between flights and I can put it right where I want it every time. What I miss about the airline days is the number and frequency of instrument approach exposure. Coming off a four-day trip full of four- and five-leg days--with half your approaches down to mins--was a definite skill-honing exercise.
:salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on February 08, 2017, 11:36:23 PM
Even when cleared a visual approach, I almost always back it up with an instrument approach. Makes sure I land at the right airport, and its good practice running through the approach procedures, setting up and using the automation to reduce workload. That should reduce errors and make it easier down the road when conditions are unfavorable.
Regarding when it is or is not time to pick a different career, I've flown with a bunch of different captains now and some are really smooth on the controls, some are pretty rough. Interestingly enough, the one who was roughest landing and hand-flying the approach was one of the more experienced ones and I would consider that capt to be highly unlikely to make mistakes like getting the altitude wrong, or any other violations that seem to happen even with experienced crews.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on February 09, 2017, 01:03:01 AM
I always back up the visual with an approach, but that's not the same as flying an actual approach in IMC. Of all the skills out there that has to be the most perishable, particularly circling approaches--which most carriers have banned for good reason.
There are great Captains and mediocre ones. Smooth pilots and not. All the practice in the world won't fix the latter in some cases. In other instances I think they're too beat down to care any more. They're like you noted...unlikely to do anything illegal or unsafe...but they just want to drive the jet from A to B and go home.
Funny enough, the most ham-fisted guys I've seen are either ex-single-seat fighter guys or pure Part 91 corporate guys with no 121 or 135 experience. The former also have their share of very good sticks. It's a bell curve like anything else.
This is a rapidly changing industry. There are days I wonder if things will someday pass me by. Once ADS-B goes fully online I expect to see a lot of people get violated for honest/innocent mistakes. Hopefully the enforcement side adapts to that new reality.
Time will tell.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 09, 2017, 09:33:46 AM
So, as far as perishable skills go...
I got this story second hand, so I can't vouch for it's accuracy, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. We had a NALO bringing kids out halfway through our det (It's a 737, just owned and operated by the Navy). I can tell you with 100% certainty, a T-45 does NOT enter holding on an IFR plan. If it looks like we're going to be stuck in holding, we're already looking for a divert, because we're HURTING for gas. I'm told that goes doubly for Hornets, because (and this explanation was fairly vague, so it may not make sense) "when you slow down a T-45, you CAN actually increase your loiter time. You can stretch your minutes in the air. A Hornet takes off with a limited number of minutes of gas, and that's not going up or down no matter what, the only thing you control is how many miles you cover in those minutes based on speed" (This is according to my XO, a thousand hour Rhino driver). So, the important thing: Fighter guys have ZERO idea what holding is.
So the story: My buddy was in the cockpit as the NALO was coming in to El Centro chatting with the pilots (Both Hornet guys) and watching the approach. Well, the Blues were over the field practicing, so the NALO was given holding instructions until the Blues were done. The pilots start busting out iPads, flipping through pubs, and finally one of them turns to my buddy and says "F*** man, you're a student right? What are the holding rules and entries?!"
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on February 09, 2017, 09:35:21 AM
I always thought that I could tell when a pilot lands the airplane and when the computer lands lands it. Usually landings so smooth I couldn't tell we landed were done with the pilot. Lands that felt like we slammed down were done by the autoland ILS IIIa/b systems, particularly in crappy weather. I didn't think that the III lands particularly soft (too bad it's not a setting). :D
Serenity - good luck and god speed with your trap training! The rest of us have been vicariously living through you ever since you started flight school. :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 09, 2017, 12:01:35 PM
Thanks Fork! I'll keep you guys up to date with the shenanigans, and if anyone is near Key West FL, I'll buy a round!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on February 09, 2017, 12:15:13 PM
:rofl :rofl
That was me going in to Kigali, Rwanda the first time and being given the DME Arc at the last minute. There were about twelve options in the box and we had a major finger fire tapping on iPads and the FMS looking for the one that matched.
I asked the controller for a turn to buy us some time and entered the approach in green needles the old fashioned way like a 172. I hadn't flown a DME Arc in ten years. :eek:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on February 09, 2017, 02:15:11 PM
So the story: My buddy was in the cockpit as the NALO was coming in to El Centro chatting with the pilots (Both Hornet guys) and watching the approach. Well, the Blues were over the field practicing, so the NALO was given holding instructions until the Blues were done. The pilots start busting out iPads, flipping through pubs, and finally one of them turns to my buddy and says "F*** man, you're a student right? What are the holding rules and entries?!"
Works for system familiarity as well. In the B-17 going into Elmira, NY we hear approach put the Mooney (A WWII B-17 pilot that travelled with us) ahead of us in the hold for a big t-storm cell over the airport. We realize we're going to have to hold behind the Mooney -- the PIC I'm flying with had a real job flying a glass cockpit Falcon for a corporation, the B-17 had two VORs, ADF and a IFR certified GPS. He looks at the panel and says "How the f*^ to you fly a hold in this thing?!" :)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on February 09, 2017, 04:24:41 PM
Works for system familiarity as well. In the B-17 going into Elmira, NY we hear approach put the Mooney (A WWII B-17 pilot that travelled with us) ahead of us in the hold for a big t-storm cell over the airport. We realize we're going to have to hold behind the Mooney -- the PIC I'm flying with had a real job flying a glass cockpit Falcon for a corporation, the B-17 had two VORs, ADF and a IFR certified GPS. He looks at the panel and says "How the f*^ to you fly a hold in this thing?!" :)
:rofl
Yeah, nothing is as much fun as going from glass to steam gauges. :O At one point I was dual qualified in just such a situation. I dreaded having to go fly that ancient piece of junk without even a single bit of "modern" avionics anywhere, especially considering we almost never flew it. "Any chance for direct to...?" was our most common phrase on the radio.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on February 10, 2017, 12:08:58 AM
On his type rating checkride, my A320 training partner set the plane up direct to a holding fix, gave me control, then went heads-down to set up the next approach. About 7 miles from the holding fix, he accidentally activated the next approach which deleted the holding fix we were supposed to go to.
Deeeeeeeep breath
Dude you deleted the holding fix. You got... uh... 69 seconds to fix that or I'm gonna have to enter it on needles.
Oh btw I haven't done that in 5 years. No pressure though.
Oh. No, the holding fix we're cleared for is the missed approach hold from the previous approach, not the next approach. It was called biteme.
Bravo India Tango Echo Mike Echo
Yea, just type it in and hit direct. k-thx.
Got it typed in and the holding pattern set up about 15 seconds before we crossed the fix :x
Check airman said my buddy owed me a beer LOL. I thought maybe he owed me a year's salary at his previous job since that's at least how long it would take to recover from a checkride bust and get another chance to get hired somewhere else, but of course I didn't really say that. He was a good dude, we worked well together during training, and of course we made mistakes on the checkride that we'd never seen before. Typical.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on February 10, 2017, 12:29:56 AM
:rofl :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 11, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
So, on the one hand I feel like a tool for this, but on the other, enough people have told me to go through with it that I guess I might as well!
https://www.gofundme.com/scotch-for-wings
Basically, I think it would be really cool to have a bottle of scotch from my birth year at my winging, and drink it sparingly at the major events throughout my career, to finish it off at my retirement. But there's no way in hell I can afford $1,200 for a bottle of scotch! So if you've got nothing better to throw money at, I would certainly appreciate help!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Golfer on February 11, 2017, 10:41:28 PM
You'd come so far from the pineapple pocket knife days, too.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: JimmyC on February 12, 2017, 01:07:13 AM
I've put in for a wee dram..
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: BFOOT1 on February 12, 2017, 09:06:11 AM
If I help ya out a little bit I only ask this.
If you are ever near North Carolina please let me know, but one I ask for one small sip. Two I ask that you let me buy you a quality NC beer and you tell me stories of being a naval aviator.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Nefarious on February 12, 2017, 10:40:15 AM
Got ya TxSailor, also sent you a friend request. <S>
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 12, 2017, 11:03:51 AM
If you are ever near North Carolina please let me know, but one I ask for one small sip. Two I ask that you let me buy you a quality NC beer and you tell me stories of being a naval aviator.
Absolutely! That offer stands for anyone within 100 miles of me!
And thank you so much for the support everyone!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 13, 2017, 10:44:01 PM
So I just landed from my first night-formation flight...
F*** no. F*** that. F*** this. I don't ever want to do that again lol. That was hands-down the most uncomfortable experience of my life. For the first time in my career, I spent the whole flight just wishing it was over.
I can't describe exactly why it was so uncomfortable. In theory, it's exactly the same stuff we do during the day. Just... at night.
So it starts with a TACAN Rendezvous. Lead takes off about 30 seconds ahead of Dash 2. He trucks out to a predetermined FRD (225 radial off of NQI at 25 DME). At his fix he starts a left 30 degree angle of bank turn. I truck out to the same point, and start a turn 500 feet below him, and use angles for a CV (turning) join up. Nothing new. So there I am, trucking out to the fix. I see his strobe and anti-collision light. Cool. No sweat. I get to Point 1 and make the call. "Password 12, point one, strobes". He shuts his strobes off as he's supposed to. No worries, the anti-collision light is still clearly visible. I start my turn. As I'm trucking along, I start to see his navigation lights, and I start trying to form the "light triangle" that shows us we're on bearing. Okay, figuring out if I'm acute or sucked and how much is a bit harder. But I'm getting there. And I start closing in. All I see is a couple of lights... and hes turning, so they're at odd angles, making judging distance and closer much tougher. I keep closing. And closing. I still can't see any lines of the jet... closer... Holy crap, suddenly he's filling the canopy! I start the crossunder, and my IP in the back is screaming "Get closer!" Yeah, easy for you to say! You're from a night-attack squadron, you've done this a thousand times. Everything in my brain is screaming "NO! Back off!". We proceed to do several turns into and away, and it doesn't get any better. Things aren't helped by the fact that I somehow have the dirtiest canopy I've ever seen. But it feels like the line between being able to see the jet and him disappearing is only a foot thick, and it's PAINFULLY close to lead. We finish the high work, and come in for a section approach. Thank god, I can finally back off a bit, because the proper position is so close, it pushes lead to the side, making the ground track painful to maintain. We do the approach, I make my touch and go, and as I'm coming back up for the rejoin, I can't see ANYTHING through the canopy. Thinking it's fogged, I turn the heat up to defog it, and it just gets exponentially worse. Turns out it was just THAT dirty. As I'm trying to manage the rejoin, I'm finger [blasting] the hell out of the Environmental Control System trying to get rid of the REAL fogging I'd now caused. I get back aboard, and we start the turn to come back in for the break. THANK GOD! It's only now I realize that my legs have completely locked up out of tension, me applying a LOT of force to the right rudder pedal (The direction AWAY from lead! lol) but it's almost over! Just have to get to the break, and I'm alone with my jet in the pattern. Well, lead starts to wrap it up in a bit of steep turn... we're down low. We're near civilization, so the light pollution is real. You'd think that would mean lead would be EASIER to see, but in reality, it's the opposite. As he's wrapping it up, I start to slide out of position, and I can just see him slowly fading into the abyss of the night, thinking "NOOOOOO! Come back here! I don't wanna die!" and I want to make an aggressive play to get back in position like I would during the day, but it's too late, I can BARELY make him out in the flash of my own anti-collision light (His is now off, so all I have to go on are the formation lights)... as I gingerly try to ease it back in, he levels out, and we're in the break... Thank god...
When it's all over, I can barely get out of the jet. My legs have been tensed for the last hour and 15 minutes straight, and they've completely cramped up. I'm not looking forward to doing this solo a couple of flights from now...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Easyscor on February 14, 2017, 01:16:27 AM
Geez, I was terrified reading that.
I hope it gets easier. :pray
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on February 14, 2017, 01:26:41 AM
Just wait until you're on the wing of a tanker using covert lighting in layered clouds. All my night work was pre-NVG, and after initial training we would switch off position lights and go with the little green formation strip lights only whenever possible.
And of course, night fingertip coming off the tanker straight into a previously unseen cloud deck that turns out to really be the fringes of a thunderstorm, yet I couldn't break out because we were still in the middle of a tanker stack with not much vertical separation for a 4-ship to do an immediate split up... Fun times.
So don't worry, it gets worse. You may get better at it, but its still a workout. One of my biggest oh-shxt moments at night was on the wing of a tanker, 4-ship. I was #2 and totally fixated on my flight lead, but out of the corner of my eye I could see #3's AAR door light turn on as he eased into precontact position. Then suddenly that light seemed to arc up and directly toward me, getting bright enough I thought he was going to ram me! Holy shxt, no time to even break out, just wait to die in that half second... then the light goes out.
The stupid bastage had popped out a flare as he opened up the AAR door, and it looked exactly like he was going to ram right into me. Guess he blew off the pre-AAR checklist and left the CMD armed. Scared me half to death, probably blinded the boom operator staring at a bright magnesium flare 50 ft away with eyes that were fully night-adapted.
It gets better... Even though we were in a combat zone, he popped out ONE flare. You might not know why that's significant now, but you will in a year or two. A few old guys here probably know exactly what I mean when I say that popping out that flare was his second switch error, not his first.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on February 14, 2017, 09:18:19 AM
If we were meant to fly at night Wilbur and Orville would have put nav lights on the Flyer!!!
A snappy salute to those doing night formation work.
An old F-4 guy told me about a night tanker evolution flying in slanted layers of clouds that was a vertigo inducer.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: NatCigg on February 14, 2017, 09:31:13 AM
pilots are tested to not loose their minds. reminds me of times i lose direction and have to trust alternate marks. one trick is to not get lost in the mental confusion. trusting your machine and the fact that one second ago everything was on course. dont over react as you work to regain control.
what do you do in eagles position when you almost see a clear imminent threat? i guess the shear speed of the event and his understanding of how critical his position was allowed the moment to settle.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on February 14, 2017, 03:28:02 PM
It gets better... Even though we were in a combat zone, he popped out ONE flare. You might not know why that's significant now, but you will in a year or two. A few old guys here probably know exactly what I mean when I say that popping out that flare was his second switch error, not his first.
I've never seen an aircraft just drop one flare, so I'm going to say he had his switchology set wrong. So if he really did need to confuse an IR missile, his single flare would have been useless. Am I right?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on February 14, 2017, 10:22:28 PM
I've never seen an aircraft just drop one flare, so I'm going to say he had his switchology set wrong. So if he really did need to confuse an IR missile, his single flare would have been useless. Am I right?
All I can say is that it was significant :)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: PR3D4TOR on February 15, 2017, 05:44:58 AM
Master arm switch.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on February 15, 2017, 10:02:30 AM
Crikies. I guess next time make sure your canopy is squeaky clean? How's your night vision Serenity?
In the Army, of course a 1/2 our work is done in the dark. Many of our recruits never had worked in the dark (or drove in the pitch black) before so we had training exercises. We would just show them an obstacle course in the day, told them to take note of what they needed to know that they were going to do this same course at 2am in the morning. Then that night, we drove there with our black-out lights on. They would get out and try to remember the details of where everything was and complete the course. We would then do night marches.
What is interesting is that for most of us, there is a certain 'fear' of the dark. Our nato buddies over in Europe, especially the Germans, didn't fear the dark like us Canucks and American soldiers do.. (Curse you Freddy and Jason V.) - part of the culture.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 15, 2017, 10:11:09 AM
Crikies. I guess next time make sure your canopy is squeaky clean? How's your night vision Serenity?
In the Army, of course a 1/2 our work is done in the dark. Many of our recruits never had worked in the dark (or drove in the pitch black) before so we had training exercises. We would just show them an obstacle course in the day, told them to take note of what they needed to know that they were going to do this same course at 2am in the morning. Then that night, we drove there with our black-out lights on. They would get out and try to remember the details of where everything was and complete the course. We would then do night marches.
What is interesting is that for most of us, there is a certain 'fear' of the dark. Our nato buddies over in Europe, especially the Germans, didn't fear the dark like us Canucks and American soldiers do.. (Curse you Freddy and Jason V.) - part of the culture.
My night vision is generally good, but there's an adjustment time. Unforunately we go from a brightly lit building, out to a brightly lit line area, to a TACAN RZ in just a couple of minutes, before the eyes can really adapt, and we don't have NVGs lol.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 15, 2017, 11:04:16 AM
So last night was... interesting.
It started out really well. What my IP from the first flight would have called "WAY too wide", my IP last night was calling a little tight. Being able to back off a foot or so was WONDERFUL. I felt like I could still see the lead, I was still in control of my jet, but I wasn't having to remind myself to breathe. It's amazing what one extra foot of spacing will do. Everything was standard and uneventful, right up until we came in for the section approach.
I was sidled up as I should be, lead had his boards out to slow us below 200kts (gear speed). "Profane, gear down flaps half, now, now, now". On the third 'now' I reached down, (never taking my eyes off of lead) to lower my gear, set my flaps to half, and bring my speedbrakes in (Boards come in when configuring on an instrument approach until "up and on glideslope"). As I see his gear begin to come down, I notice something uncomfortable. He's moving aft on my canopy. And not slowly! "F*** what did I do wrong?!" I'm thinking as I go PAINFULLY acute. As I'm looking 90 degrees down my shoulder, I go throttle idle, speed brakes back out. Slowly his aft movement stops. At this point, he's in parade position off of me! I'm still in formation mode, so the only thing going through my mind is getting back in position, and he's SLOWLY walking back forward. And I mean SLOWLY. It's here that I begin to start thinking through how I could possibly have gooned that away THAT badly. Did I not get the flap handle all the way to the half position? As I return to my place off of lead, I look into the cockpit, and in an instant go from prepared Student Naval Aviator to neanderthal. I key the ICS to my IP. I SHOULD say something like 'Sir, it appears the gear hasn't come down with the handle down and locked.' Instead all I manage is "NO GEAR LIGHT!" "Huh?" I get from the back cockpit. Now, my brain does the following acrobatics: If the gear isn't coming down, maybe the handle just isn't 'down enough', so I start HAMMERING it with the base of my fist, like Fred Flintstone in a jet... "Handle down no lights". About this time lead, who has seen me go CRAZY acute, but sees me back in position, wants to make his 'Six down and locked call', but he hasn't heard from me. "Profane 12, say your gear state". All I manage is "It's not working!" Not waiting for an explanation, he terminates the approach, calls the tower for Delta Easy (Orbiting over the field out of everyone's way to troubleshoot) and passes us the lead.
Now that I'm no longer trying to fly formation AND figure out my jet, my brain starts to return. My IP takes the controls, while I bust out the PCL (Pocket checklist) for "Gear Unsafe, Failure to Extend". Step one: Ensure the handle is down. I hit it pretty hard, MANY times. It's as down as it gets. Step two: Lights test. I flick the switch, and all of the lights for our gear illuminate. The bulbs aren't just burned out. Step three: Cycle the gear. Handle comes up, we feel a slight thunk, but not enough of one to indicate any substantial movement. Our wheels warning light comes on, as expected due to our slow speed and low power setting. We wait a few seconds and lower the gear handle again. Another slight thunk, but not NEARLY enough of one, and the lights don't come on. "You're still clean" calls 11. Okay, something is definitely broken. Time to get someone else on the line. We dial up Strike in the aux radio.
"Break break, Strike, Hawk 268" "268, go ahead for strike." "My wingman 211 is delta easy, gear unsafe fail to extend." "Uh... yeah... okay... yeah... uh... let me get the book out."
He then reads off the procedures to us. We confirm we've already completed the first few. Step four: Emergency gear handle rotate and pull. The door light comes on first. That's a good sign... the seconds start ticking by. It's taking a LONG time, but we get a light for the left main. Then a few more seconds and the right main lights. Okay, two for three. The seconds are still grinding away. Then the nose wheel lights. "Thank god" I hear from the IP in the back.
"Strike, 211 is three down and locked." "Roger, be advised with an emergency extend, nosewheel steering is unavailable" (THAT'S some great British engineering...) "Roger, strike, we'll take the short field arrestment."
As my IP starts to set us up for a 5 mile straight in, I lock my harness to prepare for the trap. As we're trucking downwind, I realized I wasn't sure if 11 was still with us. I unlocked the harness and looked around, seeing him off our right wing, doing another visual inspection of our gear (As best he can in the dark). "Back me up on the scan" says my IP "Make sure I don't get slow". "Sir, would it be better if I take this from the front?" I asked, KNOWING he was going to say no. IPs ALWAYS insist on flying the emergency themselves, but I couldn't help myself. I HAD to try to get the trap. To my surprise, he comes back with "Sure! You've got the controls!" "I've got the controls" "You've got the controls. 5 mile straight in, and hopefully paddles gets out there in time to give you a talk down."
We drive to 6 miles south of the threshold before turning around. As we turn around, we hit our first wicket of 1,000ft, on speed, 5 miles on extended centerline.
"211, paddles, check flaps to half, clear for the short field arrestment, 35L" "211, cleared 35L." "211, I'll be talking you down 50 ft ahead of the gear. On touchdown, MRT, boards in, and rotate. If you hear 'Trap', you can go idle. No braking, flaps half" "roger"
I set my velocity vector just short of the arresting gear indicator (A big yellow dot) and use throttle to stay on speed. Twice I got slightly low on glideslope, but that's not bad for a single-wire field arrestment. Better slightly low than slightly high. (The opposite of an approach to the boat). I can see the firetrucks lining the runway. 600 feet. 500 feet. 400 feet. The LAW goes off. I can see the landing light illuminating the runway. The wheels touch. MRT, boards in, "TRAP TRAP TRAP".
Now, those of you paying attention remember I unlocked my harness to look around. I didn't relock it. My head rockets forward, just missing the data entry panel under the hud. My arms go flying forward, as do my legs, leading to accidentally applying a little right brake, leading us off centerline. But we come to a stop, without any issue. The fire trucks come out, chock our wheels, check the jet over, and we shut down to be towed in. Looks like I got my first trap a month early!
"Sir, would it be better if I take this from the front?" I asked, KNOWING he was going to say no. IPs ALWAYS insist on flying the emergency themselves, but I couldn't help myself. I HAD to try to get the trap. To my surprise, he comes back with "Sure! You've got the controls!" "I've got the controls" "You've got the controls.
Good for you, Serenity! Mark of a real airman.
- oldman
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 15, 2017, 08:24:14 PM
Thanks for all the kind words! The saga continues, albeit more briefly. Before even getting to take off tonight, in an attempt to complete last night's flight, we had a brake failure on deck leading us to cancel. I walked back up to the ready room to people clapping, and the new name "BJ" for "Breaks Jets".
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 15, 2017, 08:55:28 PM
Thanks for all the kind words! The saga continues, albeit more briefly. Before even getting to take off tonight, in an attempt to complete last night's flight, we had a brake failure on deck leading us to cancel. I walked back up to the ready room to people clapping, and the new name "BJ" for "Breaks Jets".
:rofl
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on February 16, 2017, 07:26:44 AM
...As I return to my place off of lead, I look into the cockpit, and in an instant go from prepared Student Naval Aviator to neanderthal. I key the ICS to my IP. I SHOULD say something like 'Sir, it appears the gear hasn't come down with the handle down and locked.' Instead all I manage is "NO GEAR LIGHT!"
Ain't that a special feeling when things break inflight! :)
Good job.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on February 16, 2017, 09:31:20 AM
Nicely done! Great job with step one of any emergency: maintain aircraft control. :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on February 16, 2017, 01:52:16 PM
And don't forget to clean out your shorts after you''re back in the flight locker room. :aok
That kind of initiative Serenity gets IP notice and with the school staff.
Hopefully, though honestly, I just wanted the excitement of being able to do it myself. I always feel disappointed whenever the IP takes the controls in an emergency.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on February 16, 2017, 09:39:03 PM
Hopefully, though honestly, I just wanted the excitement of being able to do it myself. I always feel disappointed whenever the IP takes the controls in an emergency.
Don't let that get to you. Your IP is thinking way ahead of you and doesn't want something his experience tells him to further complicate the situation. You've done well!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on February 16, 2017, 09:50:31 PM
Hopefully, though honestly, I just wanted the excitement of being able to do it myself. I always feel disappointed whenever the IP takes the controls in an emergency.
There's (usually) no sin in deferring to the man with experience. That speaks to judgment. He can fit more penguins on his iceberg than you can at this stage. One of these days you'll be in his seat.
Give it time. You'll have plenty of opportunity to break out the Pocket Rocket down the road.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on February 21, 2017, 06:26:44 PM
Serenity, have you went supersonic yet? Just curious, hadn't seen it mentioned in this otherwise very interesting thread.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 22, 2017, 11:07:39 AM
Serenity, have you went supersonic yet? Just curious, hadn't seen it mentioned in this otherwise very interesting thread.
No, while our jet is CAPABLE of hitting 1.04, the things you need to do to get it there are NOT smart decisions.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 22, 2017, 11:51:42 AM
So, as we've heard, emergencies are no rare occurrence in this jet. That goes doubly so for me as a pilot. In general, it's a bit of a joke. After most emergency situations, I find myself excited to have fought through it, and accomplished. I'm excited to come back and talk about it. After last night, I DON'T want to talk about it. But it occurs to me that the more I want to wall up and not talk, the more I NEED to talk it out like it's just another day at work.
There were two incidents of OBOGS issues/hypoxia here yesterday. One was me. In formation. At night. Solo.
I'd started with a safe-for-solo flight in night formations. It was a great flight, everything went well. I was a little slow to fix an acute on my initial join, but that was the only complaint, and both the lead and my trunk IP had good things to say about the rest of the flight, so I was feeling great and excited to get into my solo later in the night. When the time came for my solo, I walked out to my jet, and things started off on a bad note. We park our jets tail to tail, with a taxiway in between the parking lines. Well, the jet directly behind mine was being worked on by maintenance, and they were running up the engine. The whole freaking time. My entire pre-flight, I was getting blasted in the face by exhaust. It was enough that I could see MY engine spinning (fast) through the intakes due to the exhaust being blown the wrong way down my tailpipe. The whole preflight my eyes and lungs were burning a bit, and it continued as I climbed into the jet. But it's just discomfort from exhaust. I've had that happen before. Not for that duration and power setting, but I can't imagine that is at all uncommon. I got started up and taxid out to the runway as Dash-2.
Dash-1 took off, and then I took my place on the runway. My eyes were still stinging, but I imagined it was just a matter of time before that went away. As I ran the engine up to MRT, I got a blast of water in the face from the vents. (This is significant for two reasons: One, it made my eyes stop burning, but Two, they suspect there is a correlation between water in the ECS system, and contaminated oxygen). I made my takeoff, called "Kilo" and turned to head out to the TACAN Rendezvous point. It was odd, I was flying straight and level, but noticed I was having a hard time maintaining my airspeed. It was slowly walking up and down. I reached point one, and started on the turn to join up. As I was completing my join, it was... rough. I couldn't hit my groove and was meatfisting the hell out of the stick. (It turns out that was just my perspective, in the debrief, the IP said my join looked fine). As I took my position on the outside of the turn, I noticed I was breathing VERY hard. I tried to calm down, and told myself it was just the leftovers of all that exhaust I was breathing. I executed a crossunder, and felt inexplicably on edge. As we went for our night breakup and rendezvous, it fell apart. Now, the night BnR is BENIGN. Lead exectues a smooth roll, and pulls 14 units AOA for 180 degrees of turn. It's MAYBE a 1.5 G maneuver. Lead rolled, and then I did. As I did, I felt like I was tumbling. I was dizzy, I was having a hard time seeing lead (His lights were on bright, he was about 500 feet in front of me, but I was just struggling to focus on him). As I rolled out behind him, I was actively panting. I felt eyes darting around but I wasn't really processing what I was seeing. Before I could think any further, I saw him start his turn, and I decided that the only safe thing to do was try to fight through this until I completed the join. As I moved out to bearing line, I was having a hard time making sense of his lights. Then my surefire hypoxia symptoms set in: Air hunger, and unbridled terror. At this point, I started to accept that maybe I wasn't just feeling crappy from the preflight conditions. This might legitimately be an OBOGS issue. But the last thing I wanted to do was try to action anything mid join. It was hard enough to focus on the join, I just wanted to power through and get aboard. I know, in the sober light of day, that was the wrong thought process. I needed to get on O2 immediately to clear the symptoms. But in the moment, all I felt was suffocation and terror. I just wanted to get back to something familiar. As soon as I completed the join, I fumbled for the green ring. It took a few seconds to find, but I got it, and I tasted the beautiful taste of stale oxygen. I shut my OBOGS flow selector off, and radioed lead:
"Tron 11, Tron 12. I'm experiencing an episode. Green ring has been pulled, flow selector off." "Tron 12, what? What's going on?" "Tron 11. Suspect hypoxia. Green ring has been pulled flow selector off".
I was starting to feel better at least. I was still breathing HARD, and I was still scared, but I was starting to be able to focus. I was oscillating pretty badly on his wing, but it was starting to become manageable. He asked me whether I wanted to be detached as a single, change leads so I don't have to keep in formation, or stay on his wing. I didn't want to have to think, I was already struggling to keep calm, and I didn't want to deal with anything different, so I asked to stay on his wing. Forms are comfortable. Forms are safe. He asked if I wanted to be lead into a section straight in, or if I wanted the break. Again, I've only done a handful of section approaches. I've done the break a million times. I asked for the break. Break is comfortable. Break is safe. So he started leading me back.
Lead continued to check up on me throughout the flight, and I was starting to feel better. It was a very short flight home (We weren't more than 30 miles away when I pulled the green ring), but the oxygen was REALLY helping. By the time we hit the initial, I felt almost normal. As we crossed over the approach end numbers, my next breath was a struggle. Another breath. More struggle. The bottle was empty. I told my lead my bottle was empty, but I think he was caught off guard, because his only response as he broke was "What?" I dropped my mask to attempt to breathe, and everything exploded. In my first breath of cockpit air, I felt like I was tumbling again. I was nauseated, and I felt like everything was falling apart. I remember rolling out on downwind, struggling to follow lead. I felt like I was weaving back and forth trying to follow him. It took me multiple tries to get through my landing checklist. I don't recall reporting gear down and locked, but in the debrief, lead said I did. I made the landing, though it's a bit vague in my mind. At some point I realized cabin air was bad, because I shut off my airflow knob to dump pressure and let ram air in. As I rolled out behind lead, I followed him back to parking, trying to get everything cleaned up. It was still a bit blurry, but I got back. When I got to parking, I shut the engine down, and immediately opened the canopy for fresh air. I just sagged forward for a minute. I slowly unstrapped from the jet, and tried to get everything shut down properly, and hauled myself out of the jet. As I was stepping out, I realized I had never safed my ejection seat. (Should have been done leaving the runway). Fortunately, I DID pin it, but I wasn't comfortable with my shutdown, so I asked the PC to check my cockpits for me and make sure everything was okay. Apparently I had also forgotten the data brick, he handed it to me, and told me it was all good.
From there, it was writing up the jet as down, turning my mask and respirator in to be inspected, and filling out more paperwork at the Wind Duty Officer's office. Ironically as I was going through this, I heard another jet calling inbound with oxygen issues as well.
So that was that. This was the first time I really felt shaken after an emergency. I'm still a bit uneasy, but I've got a flight again tonight. Despite the emergency, our flight last night was complete, so we're pressing forward. I really want to get through this next flight, because I think the best thing to shake this feeling is to get back into the cockpit and have a successful flight.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Golfer on February 22, 2017, 12:02:51 PM
Sounds like you did fine and you've got some good data points for lessons learned.
You'll do fine, BJ.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: PR3D4TOR on February 22, 2017, 12:19:38 PM
How can there be so many problems with this jet? It's basically an Americanized BAE Hawk. It's a 40+ year old design!
That suffocation induced panic attack you had can lead to claustrophobia. You need to defeat that toejam right away or it might stick!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 22, 2017, 12:24:13 PM
How can there be so many problems with this jet? It's basically an Americanized BAE Hawk. It's a 40+ year old design!
That suffocation induced panic attack you had can lead to claustrophobia. You need to defeat that toejam right away or it might stick!
Terror is my hypoxia symptom. Whether in the altitude chamber, in the ROBD, or apparently in the jet, when my body stops getting oxygen, that's how it manifests.
The problems with this jet, in my opinion, are two-fold. Oxygen issues in OBOGS jets are a thing throughout the fleet. I won't say more than that.
Additionally, these are all OLD airframes. They're ridden rough and put away wet. I'm actually surprised there aren't more MAJOR issues with these aircraft.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: PR3D4TOR on February 22, 2017, 12:32:34 PM
So it's not just you living up to your new call sign... Good to know.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Zoney on February 22, 2017, 12:41:45 PM
Serenity is a chicks name. And not a hot one like Kanth either, an ugly one.
Just sayin................
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on February 22, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
That's probably true but obviously there are problems happening so calling them out and getting yourself safe certainly isn't any points against you. :noid
I'm pretty sure you are gonna end up SUPER calm in any (further) real emergencies since you're already doing them all now. :D
because I think the best thing to shake this feeling is to get back into the cockpit and have a successful flight.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on February 22, 2017, 06:11:11 PM
A build up of carbon dioxide can trigger panic. Some people are more sensitve to this than others. Once this happens, the bloodstream is flooded with stress hormones that cause oxygen to bind more tightly to red blood cells, only to be released to large muscles that need it. This is probably why you felt dizzy. Your brain was slightly oxygen starved. A trick to get your body to go back to normal is to breathe only through your nose and/or breathe from you diaphragm.
In a study of people who experienced adverse symptoms due to high CO2 levels, increasing serotin (via administration of 5-htp) eliminated feelings of panic in over 50% of the patients.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on February 22, 2017, 06:16:39 PM
Serenity - You may have been hypoxic even before you left the taxi way. How long were you breathing in the exhaust from the jet behind you? I mean, from the time you approached, did your walk-around, climbed up the ladder. Strapped in, did your flight run up check list, and then taxied away.It would probably have taken 1 minute of clean flight to get rid of all of the exhaust fumes built up in your jet before the air support system of your jet was clean. You may have been suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 22, 2017, 08:07:06 PM
Serenity - You may have been hypoxic even before you left the taxi way. How long were you breathing in the exhaust from the jet behind you? I mean, from the time you approached, did your walk-around, climbed up the ladder. Strapped in, did your flight run up check list, and then taxied away.It would probably have taken 1 minute of clean flight to get rid of all of the exhaust fumes built up in your jet before the air support system of your jet was clean. You may have been suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning.
When I went through the timeline at medical, we determined 15 minutes of non-stop fume breathing (had some other issues with the jet which led to being stuck there unusually long).
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on February 22, 2017, 08:26:56 PM
Bruh, take it or leave it but...
Dial down the publicity a notch. No good will ever come of it in this day and age.
Your honesty is admirable but can (and will) be used against you by those willing to shoot their own mother to get ahead. Take it from one who knows. :cheers: :salute
*flameproof underwear on*
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on February 22, 2017, 09:11:04 PM
When I went through the timeline at medical, we determined 15 minutes of non-stop fume breathing (had some other issues with the jet which led to being stuck there unusually long).
There's nothing wrong with making the call early after such an event, and aborting the mission before you go fly. As a newbie in fast movers, you are in a vulnerable position every time you go fly. You must be on your A game all the time, not your B-. You never know when out of no where, it's going to hit the fan and you'll be the ONLY one to keep you safe. :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on February 22, 2017, 10:22:09 PM
Dial down the publicity a notch. No good will ever come of it in this day and age.
Your honesty is admirable but can (and will) be used against you by those willing to shoot their own mother to get ahead. Take it from one who knows. :cheers: :salute
*flameproof underwear on*
Don't stress about it bro. You should see the hundreds of other forums with active service members squeaking about their service and much serious matters and most unprofessional.
Serenity - nothing here you've posted is not unknown to all of us aviation enthusiasts. Yer guud Dude. Yer guuud. :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on February 22, 2017, 10:25:17 PM
Don't stress about it bro. You should see the hundreds of other forums with active service members squeaking about their service and much serious matters and most unprofessional. Yer guud Serenity. Yer guuud. :salute
Gawd I hope so.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on February 22, 2017, 10:38:51 PM
I give it maybe 2 years... There will be a briefing on security clearances, followed by an in-brief into various programs. One of the admonishments will be a requirement to report every inquiry about certain topics, especially if they are pointed and/or repeated.
Less than 6 months later, some "enthusiast" will ask 2-3 pointed and repeated questions about something specific, and *poof* serenity will quit frequenting various online forums because its too much hassle and not worth risking the clearance.
Until then though, its fun talking about it. But trust me, there will come a point where it just isn't worth the hassle trying to remain on the correct side of the line while discussing the job.
18ish years ago, a guy with an Israeli online handle and persona got pointed with some questions on an F-15E forum, and I quit even reading fighter enthusiast forums. One kid built an entire online persona based on asking several members of my squadron a couple questions each, to the point where he claimed to be on a specific deployment and started putting names to faces in squadron deployment photos that had been put on an open server. OSI got to deal with that one. I learned some time later that I probably got investigated myself over Janes F-15 content, although nobody ever interviewed me about it.
Then 20 yrs later after the last read-out, it'll be ok to talk about the job you used to have because while you'll still have to answer "what what I dunno what you're talking about what what?", at least it won't be reportable.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: PR3D4TOR on February 22, 2017, 11:35:30 PM
Welcome to the information age.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: SIK1 on February 23, 2017, 01:31:22 AM
As much as I love reading Serenity's non-fiction stories. I can see that they could become something that he can't talk about and I'm cool with that. As long as he knows where the line is and doesn't get into trouble letting us old fart live vicariously through him.
BJ, I really like your non-fiction work, your fiction, not so much. :devil
You have grown up to be one hell of man and I :salute you for that, because it could have easily gone the other way, and become one of those whiny piss ants we all hate.
Keep the stories coming for as long as you can, I love reading them.
:salute Sik
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on February 23, 2017, 06:40:24 AM
There's nothing wrong with making the call early after such an event, and aborting the mission before you go fly. As a newbie in fast movers, you are in a vulnerable position every time you go fly. You must be on your A game all the time, not your B-. You never know when out of no where, it's going to hit the fan and you'll be the ONLY one to keep you safe. :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on February 23, 2017, 08:19:41 AM
Some of you guys need to take a chill pill. He's not sharing any information that would be identifiably as classified or even procedures that are sensitive.
He's sharing his stories. Plain and simple. And to even recommend that they might be - to come into this forum topic - you could be perceived as armchair generals.
So Serenity - do they need to clear you to fly again?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Old Sport on February 23, 2017, 10:01:16 AM
In 2012 Vance AFB had an actual online log for the designated UPT cadet to log his/her journey through initial flight training, just like serenity is doing here. Today the link is inop and perhaps not only due to site migration. I don't know. Here's a link I posted back then, and the note that on the kid's first Texan II solo he had three red lights and no flaps when he would have appreciated other indications :uhoh .
The kid had some other "interesting" scenarios to deal with, and he now is doing loops in eff-too-toos, so keep at it serenity.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on February 23, 2017, 10:33:01 AM
I'm impressed that Serenity has the time to share his experiences going through pilot training. When I went through pilot training at Vance AFB, there wasn't much spare time due to all the fire hoses constantly pointed at me.
Well done Serenity! :salute Fly safe, have fun, CAVU. :airplane:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on February 23, 2017, 10:35:39 AM
Not sure about the navy but in the AF a hypoxia event is reportable, meaning there could be an investigation. In an investigation, anything said or written publicly outside of the "safety privilege" realm can become part of the official record and could be justification for action by the commander.
In other words, don't talk about mishaps and strongly consider whether or not to publicly discuss details about other reportable incidents :aok
Unless you're talking to your congressman... That's protected by law.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 23, 2017, 11:49:22 AM
Not sure about the navy but in the AF a hypoxia event is reportable, meaning there could be an investigation. In an investigation, anything said or written publicly outside of the "safety privilege" realm can become part of the official record and could be justification for action by the commander.
In other words, don't talk about mishaps and strongly consider whether or not to publicly discuss details about other reportable incidents :aok
Unless you're talking to your congressman... That's protected by law.
Thanks eagl! Interestingly, they never really talk to us about what to shut up about. I generally try to just use common sense, but it's an odd line to straddle.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 23, 2017, 11:50:33 AM
Nope, I was back up last night, and again for another solo tonight.
Another difference between AF and Navy... In the AF, you likely would have at least been sent to the flight doc, possible blood tox test and O2 levels, etc etc. Probably would have gotten cleared to fly quickly, but it still would probably have needed at least a quick visit to the flt doc.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on February 23, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
Interesting eagl that the AF and Navy's flight policies don't align. Are not most flight rules and policies governed by the NTSB? Or do each operate on their own?
Agree that you do need to be mindful about depositioning military activities on forums. When I was in the military with a top secret clearance, we just used common sense. I've been posting on forums since the 80's - and the rule was...
"Never post anything that someone could use against you to put you in a compromising position."
That kept me safe and continues today. All military secrets to go to the grave.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on February 23, 2017, 02:32:52 PM
Another difference between AF and Navy... In the AF, you likely would have at least been sent to the flight doc, possible blood tox test and O2 levels, etc etc. Probably would have gotten cleared to fly quickly, but it still would probably have needed at least a quick visit to the flt doc.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I saw doc and filled out about 8 different forms all saying the same thing, but they called doc in immediately opening the clinic at midnight the night of, to do my evaluation. Blood draws used to be a thing, but apparently they aren't anymore for whatever reason, which rather surprised me. But they checked my O2 levels and Carbon Monoxide levels via a little finger cuff.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on February 23, 2017, 02:56:51 PM
Ah, ok. Makes sense. My smoke/fumes incident in UPT (also during a formation flight) landed me in the hospital overnight due to lowered O2 levels on arrival at the hospital.
Sounds like the procedures are pretty much the same as I was used to.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on February 23, 2017, 06:47:25 PM
Interesting eagl that the AF and Navy's flight policies don't align. Are not most flight rules and policies governed by the NTSB? Or do each operate on their own?
To my knowledge the AF safety system does not align at all with NTSB or other govt agencies, especially in Europe. Mishap investigation in Europe has become extremely high threat, to the point where a pilot flying a piece of crap airplane that is falling apart might find himself liable for any injuries or deaths, and criminally guilty of murder even if he does everything right. I really don't want to fly commercially in Europe specifically because of this remarkably hostile approach to aviation mishap investigation.
USAF general flight rules are fairly well aligned with FAA rules, FAR/AIM, and ICAO rules, however they are written and maintained separately because the military has unique operating environments where FAA/ICAO rules just don't work well. For example, the USAF rules on when an alternate destination is required are sort of similar but different than FAA requirements. Both more and less restrictive, in different ways. Also, not all USAF aircraft have all the latest required equipment (ADS/B for example) so they get waivers and the general operations rules end up being different.
The military safety investigations are designed to protect the crew in order to obtain a full/complete/accurate account of what happened, to prevent future mishaps. The safety investigation goes before the accident investigation. Only "factual" info can be shared between investigations, to preserve confidentiality. Safety investigations are supposed to be non-retribution unless a clearly criminal act or willful violation of regs occurred. Anything disclosed to an accident board, including public statements (forum posts!) can be used against the pilot however.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on February 24, 2017, 02:59:45 PM
Are not most flight rules and policies governed by the NTSB?
Absolutely not. The NTSB is not a regulating agency, they investigate and make recommendations.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 19, 2017, 07:18:42 AM
Well, gentlemen, today is the day, and a fine Navy day it is. They tell me there's a boat out here somewhere, and I intend to take her by a wire! Wish me luck.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: BFOOT1 on March 19, 2017, 07:20:11 AM
Well, gentlemen, today is the day, and a fine Navy day it is. They tell me there's a boat out here somewhere, and I intend to take her by a wire! Wish me luck.
Good luck! :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on March 19, 2017, 08:49:57 AM
Good Luck!! You got this! :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Nefarious on March 19, 2017, 09:17:29 AM
Does this boat have a name?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 19, 2017, 09:58:34 AM
Here's hoping he didn't prang the kite into the swabbies...
"Bolter! Bolter! Bolter! Hook skip. Sorry."
Vroom!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 21, 2017, 06:02:02 PM
Did not qual.
3 good passes in a row (no bolters), caught the 3 wire on each. On the 4th pass I got a strong gust of wind that blew me way high. Paddles didn't hear my "clara" call, and so couldn't talk me back onto glide slope. I tried to catch it myself, but got too far back on the power, so when I came back up, it took a few seconds to spool. Caught the 2 wire, but the engine was "too quiet" for their liking, and it was called an "eased guns to land" cut pass.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on March 21, 2017, 06:57:24 PM
That's a common mistake in jets. The instinct will come.
Keep at it. :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 21, 2017, 07:10:38 PM
That's a common mistake in jets. The instinct will come.
Keep at it. :salute
Yeah, it was... well, rough. Not gonna lie. The big question is, do I get to go back to try to qual again? My CO, XO, and Paddles are all FIGHTING to send me back, but they don't get to make that decision.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on March 21, 2017, 07:21:37 PM
Yeah, it was... well, rough. Not gonna lie. The big question is, do I get to go back to try to qual again? My CO, XO, and Paddles are all FIGHTING to send me back, but they don't get to make that decision.
You'll be fine. Keep the faith. Don't give up.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on March 21, 2017, 07:34:16 PM
Yep keep trying hard, they will do what they will do. As long as you are doing your best that's all you can do. I hope you are able to go back and qualify. :cheers:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on March 21, 2017, 09:34:47 PM
Yeah, it was... well, rough. Not gonna lie. The big question is, do I get to go back to try to qual again? My CO, XO, and Paddles are all FIGHTING to send me back, but they don't get to make that decision.
Good grief. Seems a bit harsh that it wouldn't be an automatic 2nd try assuming you're trainable and didn't make an unreasonable decision. I'm guessing along the way about everyone screws a pass up to some extent.
Best of luck.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Oldman731 on March 21, 2017, 09:54:45 PM
Good grief. Seems a bit harsh that it wouldn't be an automatic 2nd try assuming you're trainable and didn't make an unreasonable decision. I'm guessing along the way about everyone screws a pass up to some extent.
Best of luck.
Agreed.
- oldman
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on March 22, 2017, 12:40:24 AM
The right people are in his court. It will be fine.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: PR3D4TOR on March 22, 2017, 06:42:52 AM
Here's hoping you get a second chance! ... And even if you don't and end up flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog crap out of Hong Kong, we're all still proud of you! :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on March 22, 2017, 06:50:56 AM
^^^Yep
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: nooby52 on March 22, 2017, 06:52:13 AM
Don't let it get ya down Serenity. Do your best, never give up, take what comes, and never look back. :cheers:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 22, 2017, 08:51:34 AM
Good grief. Seems a bit harsh that it wouldn't be an automatic 2nd try assuming you're trainable and didn't make an unreasonable decision. I'm guessing along the way about everyone screws a pass up to some extent.
Best of luck.
Everyone is ASSUMING it will be a sure-thing second chance, (I was on track for Commodore's List), but there's a LONG WAY between "I'm SURE you'll come back, I can't imagine why not" and "Yeah, we're bringing you back". I'm trying to hold on to hope because there was talk of just starting me over the next day, which is unusual, so that HAS to be a good sign, but my CO fought against that (And I'm glad he did) because he wanted to get me a full round of warm-ups before I tried again, so I wouldn't be cheated out of practice. CO and XO are good guys.
Thanks for the support gents! It means a lot!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on March 22, 2017, 09:45:49 AM
Everyone is ASSUMING it will be a sure-thing second chance, (I was on track for Commodore's List), but there's a LONG WAY between "I'm SURE you'll come back, I can't imagine why not" and "Yeah, we're bringing you back". I'm trying to hold on to hope because there was talk of just starting me over the next day, which is unusual, so that HAS to be a good sign, but my CO fought against that (And I'm glad he did) because he wanted to get me a full round of warm-ups before I tried again, so I wouldn't be cheated out of practice. CO and XO are good guys.
Thanks for the support gents! It means a lot!
:salute - remember that Karma goes a long way Serenity. You landing the broken jet - extra flights, extra studying...it all adds up. They're remembering everything as they want you to succeed. You're not trying to be some hot-shot - just someone who has a passion for this stuff. they see it in you. And it's why they want those warm-up's for ya. It's all guuuuud.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on March 22, 2017, 05:51:02 PM
How does the Navy decide if you qualify? Is it based on trapping all 4 landings on the 3 wire? Or is it a cumulative score of all your landings? Or is it something else?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 23, 2017, 05:11:37 AM
How does the Navy decide if you qualify? Is it based on trapping all 4 landings on the 3 wire? Or is it a cumulative score of all your landings? Or is it something else?
There are several parts to it. Every pass has a grade, from Wave Off-Pattern, No Grade, Fair, OK, and OK, with a few other small options, all assigned a score of 0 to 4. You need a GPA of at least 2.5 for your passes at the boat. You need 10 traps in your period, and a 60% boarding rate (Trap to Bolter ratio). HOWEVER, you can be waived to qual if you have less than the necessary GPA or boarding rate if paddles thinks you're on an improving trend. HOWEVER, with a passing GPA and boarding rate, you can fail if paddles thinks you're on a decreasing trend.
The one thing that is set in stone is a single cut pass is an immediate failure.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on March 23, 2017, 07:41:02 AM
The one thing that is set in stone is a single cut pass is an immediate failure.
What is a "single cut pass"?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on March 23, 2017, 07:46:16 AM
I'd assume that's a pass so bad it can cause you to be cut.
It sounds like Paddles is on your side and has a lot of sway. As well as your command structure. That sounds promising to me. Still :pray Hopefully they understand what happened on the pass that you cut throttle in response to a wind gust and not to try to force a landing..
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: PR3D4TOR on March 23, 2017, 07:52:23 AM
Unsafe pass which still managed to achieve a landing. In this case Serenity landed with too little thrust to their liking. Idea being he should have aborted the landing instead of pushing his (and everyone on the boat's) luck. Lesson learned.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 23, 2017, 01:01:09 PM
Unsafe pass which still managed to achieve a landing. In this case Serenity landed with too little thrust to their liking. Idea being he should have aborted the landing instead of pushing his (and everyone on the boat's) luck. Lesson learned.
Actually, that's the difficulty. I can't take my own wave off. As much as I may have liked to, behind the boat you only wave off when told to do so. The only real solution to this would have been another Clara call (to nudge paddles into giving me the waveoff) and just being a few seconds faster getting the power back up.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2017, 01:21:54 PM
That's a bit different.
The guy actually holding the stick and throttles can't make his own decision to go-around?
Is that while in training only or SOP?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 23, 2017, 01:29:02 PM
The guy actually holding the stick and throttles can't make his own decision to go-around?
Is that while in training only or SOP?
That's SOP. When I call the ball and the LSO responds "roger ball", he's accepting responsibility for the safety of the flight deck and environment. Even if there's a jet still in the landing area on a wire, I'm to continue until I get waveoff lights.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2017, 01:40:36 PM
I admit I am old skool and ex-USAF to boot but I'm of the opinion that the guy holding the stick and throttle ALWAYS has the option to decide to go around at anytime.
I don't mind someone outside the aircraft calling the go-around. There's things the pilot may not see. (deer on the runway, whatever.)
However, I kinda want to reserve the right to call my own go if I decide that's necessary.
Good luck to you though, Serenity. I hope you get another opportunity and ace it.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 23, 2017, 01:53:54 PM
I admit I am old skool and ex-USAF to boot but I'm of the opinion that the guy holding the stick and throttle ALWAYS has the option to decide to go around at anytime.
I don't mind someone outside the aircraft calling the go-around. There's things the pilot may not see. (deer on the runway, whatever.)
However, I kinda want to reserve the right to call my own go if I decide that's necessary.
Good luck to you though, Serenity. I hope you get another opportunity and ace it.
Its unique to carrier aviation, to be sure. I would have been VERY happy to have waved off that pass. I wanted to. But waving off without cause, so to speak, could also have earned me a cut pass
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: BFOOT1 on March 23, 2017, 07:03:09 PM
Good luck buddy! I'm rooting for ya, and I'm hoping the give you a second chance! Keep fighting, don't lose faith, and keep giving everything you have and more :rock
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: JimmyC on March 24, 2017, 03:34:55 AM
BJSpaz we love ya man, Keep being you! Your all over it. Lifes cool and your livin it Bro Bigups
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Maverick on March 24, 2017, 10:30:09 AM
Could you define "clara". Just an unfamiliar term to me.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on March 24, 2017, 10:44:27 AM
Could you define "clara". Just an unfamiliar term to me.
Yep. You can be "Clara Lineup" meaning due to glare, or some other factor, you can't see the centerline, you can be "clara ship" due to fog, but "clara" is "Clarification", meaning, you can't see a necessary visual reference to make a safe landing, and you're asking the LSO to guide you back onto course because you CAN'T do it yourself because you're missing the visual reference necessary. If you don't follow it up with what exactly you can't see, it means the ball is off the lens, so you need the LSO to guide you back down onto glide slope, and to give you warning before you have a flythrough down.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Wolfala on March 24, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
3 good passes in a row (no bolters), caught the 3 wire on each. On the 4th pass I got a strong gust of wind that blew me way high. Paddles didn't hear my "clara" call, and so couldn't talk me back onto glide slope. I tried to catch it myself, but got too far back on the power, so when I came back up, it took a few seconds to spool. Caught the 2 wire, but the engine was "too quiet" for their liking, and it was called an "eased guns to land" cut pass.
Yeah, these days, reportedly about 50% DNQ first at-sea period. I have no idea what historical trends are. All my CNATRA contacts are TW6, NFO School House. Paddles is never, ever wrong. Even when Paddles is wrong, Paddles is never wrong. It’s called P*I*C for a reason. Sorry it happened, and you needs to learn from that pass. There’s a whole lot in there to mull over.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 24, 2017, 01:09:07 PM
Yeah, these days, reportedly about 50% DNQ first at-sea period. I have no idea what historical trends are. All my CNATRA contacts are TW6, NFO School House. Paddles is never, ever wrong. Even when Paddles is wrong, Paddles is never wrong. It’s called P*I*C for a reason. Sorry it happened, and you needs to learn from that pass. There’s a whole lot in there to mull over.
Oh, don't worry, I understand well that paddles is never wrong. I've gone over it about a million times, looking only at what, given the same circumstances, I could have done differently from my cockpit. I don't blame paddles at all, there are many things I would have done differently, not only on that pass, but for the day as a whole.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: NatCigg on March 24, 2017, 04:29:12 PM
you live, you learn. your better today than yesterday. keep at it. a day on the job is worth a month in the classroom.
I always found it interesting how fate works. there is a wild chance that your experience will make you better in the long run. I know its a absurd thought but when it is all over you can tell us about it.
you got this.
:aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on March 24, 2017, 07:50:55 PM
there is a wild chance that your experience will make you better in the long run. I know its a absurd thought but when it is all over you can tell us about it.
You're not the first to posit this. My CO said the best ball-flyers he knew were the ones who didn't make their first trip to the boat, because they got extra attention BEFORE they developed bad habits. Hopefully I get the chance to go again and make use of the lessons learned!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on March 24, 2017, 07:55:41 PM
You're not the first to posit this. My CO said the best ball-flyers he knew were the ones who didn't make their first trip to the boat, because they got extra attention BEFORE they developed bad habits. Hopefully I get the chance to go again and make use of the lessons learned!
When it comes to busting a ride or missing a qual...for 95% (or more) of people there are those that have and those that will.
You'll get another bite at the apple.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Devil 505 on March 24, 2017, 11:15:39 PM
You're not the first to posit this. My CO said the best ball-flyers he knew were the ones who didn't make their first trip to the boat, because they got extra attention BEFORE they developed bad habits. Hopefully I get the chance to go again and make use of the lessons learned!
That's the spirit. :rock
:salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: NatCigg on March 25, 2017, 07:38:32 AM
I don't know if it applets but.. for me there was a change of mindset that happened with experience. At sometime a guy must go from trainer to professional. You are a professional. All excuses are nothing more than excuses for your self. With this understanding you have nothing to prove, only execute. As was said there is a lot to extract. I don't know if what I say applies. A lot of kids can be confident, but maybe my experience can help.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on March 25, 2017, 08:44:36 AM
Seems like a good place for the ol' Yerkes Dodson law. There are probably few things harder than landing on a carrier. To get optimal performance out of yourself, you have to keep your level of CNS arousal down.
I became aroused just looking at the graph (it don't take much sometime).
Arlo, that sounds like it could be a whole other thread.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Maverick on April 05, 2017, 10:36:06 AM
Just a blurb here from another website I frequent regarding veteran stories. There is supposed to be a small "strike" going on with naval instructor pilots at this time over the oxy issues in the goshawk. Serenity, have you heard anything on your side about it?
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=71257
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 05, 2017, 11:26:49 AM
Just a blurb here from another website I frequent regarding veteran stories. There is supposed to be a small "strike" going on with naval instructor pilots at this time over the oxy issues in the goshawk. Serenity, have you heard anything on your side about it?
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=71257
I was standing desk when they refused to fly. Our flight schedule today is shut down as well, presumably because of this article. And having been at that meeting with NavAir, "heated" is an understatement.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on April 05, 2017, 03:29:42 PM
It's all over the major news outlets. Mainly due to Mike Pence's son being in training. They said that it is a 70% refusal rate, though the Navy lowered it to 40% by reducing the flight schedule.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on April 05, 2017, 04:37:16 PM
I hope it prompts them to FIX the problem.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on April 10, 2017, 03:40:55 PM
Do you guys have a full motion simulator Serenity?
We do not. And getting sim time is nigh on impossible at the moment
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 11, 2017, 03:44:27 AM
Time to work on that tan...
https://youtu.be/Zmfd9etbXGE
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: BFOOT1 on April 19, 2017, 05:38:01 PM
Saw several T-45's making passes around Pensacola today. Since my first year of teaching has been kinda bleh, I've truly been considering the military and I'm leaning towards going Navy. Serenity I may get in touch with you real soon about some things.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 19, 2017, 07:21:36 PM
Saw several T-45's making passes around Pensacola today. Since my first year of teaching has been kinda bleh, I've truly been considering the military and I'm leaning towards going Navy. Serenity I may get in touch with you real soon about some things.
Absolutely! The jets you're seeing are instructors testing new stopgap systems, us students aren't flying again yet, so I've got plenty of time to answer questions!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: nooby52 on April 20, 2017, 07:35:46 AM
Absolutely! The jets you're seeing are instructors testing new stopgap systems, us students aren't flying again yet, so I've got plenty of time to answer questions!
Wow, stuck in Kingsville with nothing to do!!!?? That's got to be mind-numbing!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on April 20, 2017, 10:50:17 AM
Absolutely! The jets you're seeing are instructors testing new stopgap systems, us students aren't flying again yet, so I've got plenty of time to answer questions!
Are you concerned about this effecting your proficiency going forward? How much of a work up will you get before heading back to the boat? I imagine longer then if the jets were never grounded?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on April 20, 2017, 11:22:58 AM
Are you concerned about this effecting your proficiency going forward? How much of a work up will you get before heading back to the boat? I imagine longer then if the jets were never grounded?
Because it's been more than 30 days since my last flight, they owe me two warm-up flights before they can evaluate me on anything
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on April 20, 2017, 04:38:18 PM
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on April 25, 2017, 04:33:36 PM
Put Serenity in a Hornet and let him qualify. Who knows, he might have been breathing noxious gas when he was trying to land. The Hornet is supposed to be a very gentle and forgiving plane to fly.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on April 25, 2017, 04:35:12 PM
Put Serenity in a Hornet and let him qualify. Who knows, he might have been breathing noxious gas when he was trying to land. The Hornet is supposed to be a very gentle and forgiving plane to fly.
Hornet having OBOX issues, too, and it's a totally different animal.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 25, 2017, 05:02:24 PM
The wife already refers to you as 'Maverick.' I had to explain that someone else already stole that CPID.
"How's your friend, Maverick, doing with his flight training?"
(She's a creature of correlation.)
Don't let her down. I expect a true Top Gun thread later. ;)
I have officially decided to throw out the advice my LSOs have been giving me, (That's not a "They suck!" comment, but rather, I can't color by numbers. If you tell me HOW to do it, I get so wrapped up trying to hit the intermediate checkpoints, I screw up the end result) and I'm already seeing 100% better passes in the sim. I'm actually confident this time that I'll get it! Whenever we actually fly, that is...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: NatCigg on April 27, 2017, 03:30:26 PM
what happens to a guy when he gets caught jamming to Kenny Loggins at the fighter school dorms? :D
when you get there Serenity, you need to play this very loud!
I have officially decided to throw out the advice my LSOs have been giving me, (That's not a "They suck!" comment, but rather, I can't color by numbers. If you tell me HOW to do it, I get so wrapped up trying to hit the intermediate checkpoints, I screw up the end result) and I'm already seeing 100% better passes in the sim. I'm actually confident this time that I'll get it! Whenever we actually fly, that is...
If you wanted to, could you transfer to the USAF right now since you are so far along in the flight program? Your idea sounds pretty dangerous to a lay-person like myself. Ramp Strike!*
*That is a reference to a pilot in the book "Feet Wet" who used to visually fly his own carrier approaches. He eventually had a ramp strike with his F-8 and was killed.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 27, 2017, 03:59:02 PM
If you wanted to, could you transfer to the USAF right now since you are so far along in the flight program? Your idea sounds pretty dangerous to a lay-person like myself. Ramp Strike!*
*That is a reference to a pilot in the book "Feet Wet" who used to visually fly his own carrier approaches. He eventually had a ramp strike with his F-8 and was killed.
Perhaps it needs some clarification. I'm talking about the procedure to get to the "start" of the ball flying.
I was told in the last phase, that ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE TIME you turn crosswind, you HAVE to be at 130kts and 30 degrees angle of bank. "If you'll accept anything else in the cross turn, you'll accept other deviations later, and you'll die". So I did that. Every time, I was at EXACTLY 130/30. But that put me at 1.1-1.2nm abeam. But I was told "You have to be at 1.0 abeam, that's what the turn geometry is designed for." So, now I'm making intermediate corrections between intermediate checkpoints, but by god if I didn't hit 1.0 abeam EVERY single time. And so I was told "Use 27-28 degrees angle of bank in the approach turn, because you might need MORE, and you CAN'T go above 30 degrees", so I used 27-28 every single time. "Look out at the 90 degree point, and start making corrections for lineup then", so I did this. And with hitting all of these intermediate checkpoints along the way, I was still NOT getting a good start consistently. And so I would ask "Well, I'm not getting to a good start, what should I do?" and I was told "Just make sure you're hitting exactly those numbers"...
Going back and working at it on my own, not worrying about hitting the prescribed intermediate checkpoints, I've found that so far, 128kts and 33 degrees AOB for the crosswind turn puts me at .9nm abeam. And from .9nm abeam, I go straight to 30 degrees AOB and DON'T make corrections at the 90, keep heads in until the 45. THEN take about 2 degrees AOB out, if necessary. And through these methods, I get to a textbook start position for the ball.
I'm not saying I'm going to just ignore everything and wing it. I'm developing a variation to more consistently put me in the position I need to get to.
For me, this is an issue I've encountered before. One of the first things we do when we get here, is barrel rolls under the hood. Now, I've done barrel rolls before, quite well. But our manual says "Initiate a 4G pull to x degrees above the horizon. At x1 degrees above the horizon, roll to y degrees angle of bank. At z degrees off initial heading, be at x2 degrees above the horizon, and y1 degrees angle of bank. At z1 degrees off of initial heading, be x3 degrees above the horizon..." etc. And so the first three events I attempted to adhere to these numbers exactly, and it led to a borderline unsafe lack of control. What finally got me back to my perfect barrel rolls was an IP watching me go through this and saying "Don't focus on those exact checkpoints. Don't THINK about how to do a barrel roll, just DO a barrel roll". And what do you know? The next attempt was damned near perfect. And this has repeated throughout flight school. The more I get into the weeds on the method, the worse the results. The more I focus on the big picture, the better the results.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: zxrex on April 27, 2017, 04:05:50 PM
You do what you need to do. There's a difference between a technique and a procedure.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Golfer on April 27, 2017, 04:10:32 PM
You're thinking too much. Fly the airplane, fly the profile, know where you are, know where you're going and above all be in charge of the airplane.
All I have is if you are prohibited from using more than 30 degrees angle of bank in the pattern, then don't use 33. If that's a hard and fast limitation then I wouldn't deviate from it outside of an abnormal or emergency or preventing such if practicable. That rule sounds written in blood to me for those black hole nights over the water.
At this stage, you don't know better than your instructors. YMMV and who knows...maybe you do?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 27, 2017, 04:12:19 PM
You're thinking too much. Fly the airplane, fly the profile, know where you are, know where you're going and above all be in charge of the airplane.
All I have is if you are prohibited from using more than 30 degrees angle of bank in the pattern, then don't use 33. If that's a hard and fast limitation then I wouldn't deviate from it outside of an abnormal or emergency or preventing such if practicable. That rule sounds written in blood to me for those black hole nights over the water.
At this stage, you don't know better than your instructors. YMMV and who knows...maybe you do?
The "Don't go above 30 degrees in the cross turn" isn't a natops limit, it's just the prescribed starting point in the FTI that should put you at the correct abeam point. Unfortunately, it doesn't always do that, and so following it exactly was hurting me rather than getting me where I need the aircraft to be. But then again, by this point, there's almost more misinformation in the FTI than good information, as it still references the Alpha model lol. But your first point is exactly right. Too much THINKING about how to get the plane there, no enough just PUTTING the plane there. I was too spooled around the axis of following the recommended techniques exactly, that I wasn't deviating to find MY best technique.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Golfer on April 27, 2017, 04:21:17 PM
You live in a world with wind, so do what you gotta do. Glad it's not a hard limitation and just the profile. That should be alright then.
I imagine once you're used to what looks and feels right it'll be second nature. You just have to screw it up a few times to figure out where it is. You'll be alright. Just don't f@&$ it up.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 27, 2017, 04:24:37 PM
You live in a world with wind, so do what you gotta do. Glad it's not a hard limitation and just the profile. That should be alright then.
I imagine once you're used to what looks and feels right it'll be second nature. You just have to screw it up a few times to figure out where it is. You'll be alright. Just don't f@&$ it up.
lol yeah, and boy was the wind a PITA the last time! When the runway heading is changing by 45 degrees every minute or so it really messes with your pattern lol.
FWIW, I've talked through all of my ideas technique with our squadron's head LSO in my board and his words were pretty much "Hey, if it gets you to a good consistent start, do what you gotta do".
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Nefarious on April 28, 2017, 09:09:28 AM
Ironically I just finished Stephen Coonts sequel to "Flight of the Intruder" , titled "Intruders"... It focuses on the main characters post war cruise and naturally talks about the dangers of flying from the carrier.
The mundane and sheer terror, couldn't help to thinking of you and your quest. Good luck dude, you got this easy!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on April 28, 2017, 09:10:24 AM
So, this oxygen thing has become so far-spread, we have a snapchat filter for it lol. It's glorious...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on April 28, 2017, 09:45:09 AM
Serenity long ago when learning Lazy 8s I found the same thing...trying to hit the points at the 45 etc didn't work. If you just fly the Lazy 8 a GOOD one will result in you hitting the reference points.
What Golfer said ref living in a world with wind. I was thinking wow, if you are set to specific bank angles and speeds how do you compensate for the ocean of air we fly around in. Good to now you can vary.
Envious of where you are man...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Maverick on April 28, 2017, 10:13:12 AM
When I was first learning to fly I was very intent on paying strict attention to the "numbers". Hit the proper speed before doing the next item in the list to land. Hit the exact heading, be on the exact rate of decent and so on. I was having a hard time in night landings because of it. The instructor pilot figured out the problem. In the turn to downwind she shut off all the cockpit lights. Everything was dark, then she said fly the airplane. Funny thing is it worked like a charm. She said that landing was the best I had done with her in the seat next to me. Yup the little piper ain't a goshawk but the principle was the same. Fly the plane first then use gages to check yourself instead of flying the gages.
Similar thing happened on an early flight in a helo. I was chasing the altimeter and not holding steady. My buddy said to get my head out of the cockpit and just fly. The bird settled down and was nice and steady from then on.
You have this nailed.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on April 28, 2017, 10:12:03 PM
When I was first learning to fly I was very intent on paying strict attention to the "numbers". Hit the proper speed before doing the next item in the list to land. Hit the exact heading, be on the exact rate of decent and so on. I was having a hard time in night landings because of it. The instructor pilot figured out the problem. In the turn to downwind she shut off all the cockpit lights. Everything was dark, then she said fly the airplane. Funny thing is it worked like a charm. She said that landing was the best I had done with her in the seat next to me. Yup the little piper ain't a goshawk but the principle was the same. Fly the plane first then use gages to check yourself instead of flying the gages.
Similar thing happened on an early flight in a helo. I was chasing the altimeter and not holding steady. My buddy said to get my head out of the cockpit and just fly. The bird settled down and was nice and steady from then on.
You have this nailed.
Numbers are a range, not a target. They're a starting point that you tweak.
Example. My jet the gouge we experienced use is Fuel Flow x 2 = Airspeed. But weight, temp, etc. will mess with this. It gets you in the ballpark.
I am old school and learned the Pitch, Power, Perfromance method. You can fail as many pitot tubes on me as you like. I know what my jet is doing based on where things are.
So vary based on condition. Columbo, Puma, you, and others have made great comments.
You cannot legislate technique. Stay within the parameters and mold them to your style.
Serenity, you will be fine. Do not try to be too smart or overthink this. Just do your thing.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on April 30, 2017, 11:15:43 AM
It's very easy in any phase of a flying career to get distracted with the pizz ants and not see the elephant charging at you.
An emergency procedure that applies to any emergency or non normal situation. 1. Maintain aircraft control. 2. Analyze the situation. 3. Take the appropriate action. 4. Maintain situational awareness.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on May 02, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
Keep It Simple Stupid, don't over think it and just FTFA! :aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on May 02, 2017, 08:27:15 PM
Keep It Simple Stupid, don't over think it and just FTFA! :aok
This.
Had a six-month ride today. A combination of system/engine failures, simulator problems, and jacked up vectors by the examiner (who had an FAA observer, no less) started some serious dominoes falling. Too many penguins on my iceberg. This was untenable. "This is a mess. Let's get out. Ask for a vector back around, we are breaking off the approach."
Get it to a safe altitude. Point it where it won't hit anything. Take a deep breath. Reset the fight. It's easy to get buried--task saturated. It's easy to get suckered into a reinvention of the wheel. Train like you fight. FTFJ. KISS. Don't overthink the situation. You'll be fine.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on May 03, 2017, 12:38:35 PM
I get what your saying, but let's not kid ourselves...Our "heat of battle" at flight safety is just a tad bit different, even if your doing a .297 then Serenity qualifying on the boat. :joystick:
In all seriousness though, the principals are the same.
I flew a CJ3 single pilot for years before transitioning to a multi crew large cabin business jet. Best advice I ever get was a captain telling me how sharp I was and how welll I knew the airplane, but doing things "my" way and doing things for speed wasn't going to impress anyone, in fact it would piss them off. Do what you have to do to pass but don't be a know it all and write your own rules. Without fail, every trip to the school house we all end up meeting some dude that decides to write his own procedure, and he's so blinded by how awesome and smart he is for discovering this new way to fly, he is completely oblivious to the limitations and restrictions he is breakig. Oops.
Back to what Ver said and I can also use the CJ to impress the point, you are in command, you fly the airplane. Don't let instructors, ATC or any external pressures rush you into a situation for failure. If it doesn't look good, vector for a new setup, and if it's an emergency situation, YOU own the airspace. Luckily it only happened twice a year at recurrent, but when I was flying the citation single pilot, unless terrain was an issue SID be damned in a V1 cut. Yes, I could arm LNAV and the airplane would tell me when and where I needed to make turns, but "in the heat of battle" it was easier and safer for me to fly straight out, at least until I have the airplane cleaned up and under control. Why? Because I can.
Goodluck man, I know you are going to kick butt on the next qual. Can't wait to hear the thumbs up update.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Toad on May 03, 2017, 12:47:25 PM
Luckily it only happened twice a year at recurrent, but when I was flying the citation single pilot, unless terrain was an issue SID be damned in a V1 cut. Yes, I could arm LNAV and the airplane would tell me when and where I needed to make turns, but "in the heat of battle" it was easier and safer for me to fly straight out, at least until I have the airplane cleaned up and under control. Why? Because I can.
I'd have to say "SID be damned" can be risky in some situations other than just terrain.
For example, the Ruudy5 out of KTEB on a true, nasty IFR day. Very high density traffic area, maybe too many aircraft for ATC to get every one immediately out of your way AND a lot of pretty tall obstacles.
I understand declaring the emergency and getting priority but I also understand that sometimes the SID is there for really good reasons.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on May 03, 2017, 02:56:58 PM
I get what your saying, but let's not kid ourselves...Our "heat of battle" at flight safety is just a tad bit different, even if your doing a .297 then Serenity qualifying on the boat. :joystick:
I could qualify for the boat at my current skill and experience level. That's just a matter of training. Doing it with only a hundred hours of flight time? Not so much. (I remember a distant past when I thought one hundred hours was a lot. Ha!) :D
Our usual .293/.297 scenario is what it is. Most are a straightforward bore having done them for 15 years. Throw in a busted sim and a Fed breathing over your shoulder with a bad vector it becomes not so boring real fast--sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
But the principles remain... Do what you're trained to do and don't reinvent the wheel. Most importantly of all: never be in a hurry to make a mistake.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 03, 2017, 09:34:14 PM
FWIW, I've sat down with our squadrons head LSOs, talking about my new start point numbers, and his stance was "if it's putting you where you want to be, it's a great start"
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Shuffler on May 03, 2017, 10:51:55 PM
FWIW, I've sat down with our squadrons head LSOs, talking about my new start point numbers, and his stance was "if it's putting you where you want to be, it's a great start"
Remember, you not only make Kingsville proud, you make the rest of us Texans proud too. :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on May 03, 2017, 10:58:54 PM
I'd have to say "SID be damned" can be risky in some situations other than just terrain.
For example, the Ruudy5 out of KTEB on a true, nasty IFR day. Very high density traffic area, maybe too many aircraft for ATC to get every one immediately out of your way AND a lot of pretty tall obstacles.
I understand declaring the emergency and getting priority but I also understand that sometimes the SID is there for really good reasons.
Agreed.
I keep forgetting Serenity only has a couple hundred hours. When I think back to only a couple hundred hours it's amazing I didn't kill myself multiple times over. You da man serenity!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on May 03, 2017, 11:36:36 PM
FWIW, I've sat down with our squadrons head LSOs, talking about my new start point numbers, and his stance was "if it's putting you where you want to be, it's a great start"
:aok
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on May 04, 2017, 12:09:06 AM
I'd have to say "SID be damned" can be risky in some situations other than just terrain.
For example, the Ruudy5 out of KTEB on a true, nasty IFR day. Very high density traffic area, maybe too many aircraft for ATC to get every one immediately out of your way AND a lot of pretty tall obstacles.
I understand declaring the emergency and getting priority but I also understand that sometimes the SID is there for really good reasons.
Thank Gawd for APG.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Toad on May 04, 2017, 08:36:33 AM
Beats the heck out of the good old days with spaghetti charts!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 04, 2017, 10:16:18 AM
I've read this over as I sometimes do, and realized I may have cast things in an unfair light. By no means do I mean to imply that our LSOs have done me wrong in any way shape or form. In fact, my only regret is that I can't go back with the same ones I had! They're fantastic at their jobs. The struggle I had was based on the fact that my particular issue WASNT ball flying, which they are experts on and watch like a hawk, but the pattern leading to it, which they simply CANT be observing. And when I was told their technique, I treated it like it was written and stone, and drove for their numbers, even when it wasn't putting me where I needed to be. The only real difference now is that I've let go of their gouge so to speak, in order to find my own technique, and at least in the sim so far, it's a night and day difference.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on May 04, 2017, 12:07:26 PM
I've read this over as I sometimes do, and realized I may have cast things in an unfair light. By no means do I mean to imply that our LSOs have done me wrong in any way shape or form. In fact, my only regret is that I can't go back with the same ones I had! They're fantastic at their jobs. The struggle I had was based on the fact that my particular issue WASNT ball flying, which they are experts on and watch like a hawk, but the pattern leading to it, which they simply CANT be observing. And when I was told their technique, I treated it like it was written and stone, and drove for their numbers, even when it wasn't putting me where I needed to be. The only real difference now is that I've let go of their gouge so to speak, in order to find my own technique, and at least in the sim so far, it's a night and day difference.
Nah, you sounded reasonable. I didn't see any disparagement.
You're growing. Learning has occurred. This is sometimes referred to as EXPERIENCE. :)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: colmbo on May 04, 2017, 03:30:24 PM
What Vraciu said.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on May 04, 2017, 03:37:17 PM
Nah, you sounded reasonable. I didn't see any disparagement.
You're growing. Learning has occurred. This is sometimes referred to as EXPERIENCE. :)
Thanks! Lord know the last thing I want to do is sound discrediting of my IPs. I can honestly say there's not a single man in my squadron I can find any fault with. They tell us they did some real house cleaning a few years back, and it has paid off handsomely if I do say so.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on May 12, 2017, 01:41:48 PM
Potentially. Me and a handful of other students are scheduled to meet with the squadron Operations officer in an hour. I have my guess as to why... by I don't want to jinx it lol.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on June 01, 2017, 08:34:58 AM
I wish I was joking. That was literally it, lol. We came in for a single sentence. What makes it worse is we have a mandatory All Officers Meeting this afternoon! lol. I can't really complain, I'm getting paid to do nothing, so I'm not actually bothered by it, I just think it's silly.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on June 01, 2017, 01:38:23 PM
I assume your getting regular hours in the sim on a weekly basis to stay proficient? I can't imagine being a "low time" pilot flying such complex aircraft in an extremely challenging environment and just having to stop cold turkey.
Any expectations as to when you will fly again?
Hate to ask this but any chance they end up sending this cadre of students to UAV's if the problem isn't fixed soon?
<S>
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 01, 2017, 01:44:11 PM
I assume your getting regular hours in the sim on a weekly basis to stay proficient? I can't imagine being a "low time" pilot flying such complex aircraft in an extremely challenging environment and just having to stop cold turkey.
Any expectations as to when you will fly again?
Hate to ask this but any chance they end up sending this cadre of students to UAV's if the problem isn't fixed soon?
<S>
I get about 1.5 hours every two weeks in the sim. That's it.
No expectations moving forward, but fortunately, the navy doesn't really HAVE UAVs, so that's a zero chance.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on June 03, 2017, 12:07:00 PM
So, how long are they telling you it's going to be. I've got a friend whose nephew is at Meridian in the same "boat" as you. They are telling him it may be September or October before he flies. An admiral came for a visit there and said the Navy was considering sending students to USAF pilot training bases to finish in the T-38 OR go to Australia to fly T-45s. Apparently, they are having no such problems down yonder. Have you heard the same?
I suggested, and my friend also suggested to his nephew that he consider cross pollinating to the USAF where they are allegedly 700ish short of fighter pilots. Just a thought for consideration. :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 03, 2017, 12:29:49 PM
So, how long are they telling you it's going to be. I've got a friend whose nephew is at Meridian in the same "boat" as you. They are telling him it may be September or October before he flies. An admiral came for a visit there and said the Navy was considering sending students to USAF pilot training bases to finish in the T-38 OR go to Australia to fly T-45s. Apparently, they are having no such problems down yonder. Have you heard the same?
I suggested, and my friend also suggested to his nephew that he consider cross pollinating to the USAF where they are allegedly 700ish short of fighter pilots. Just a thought for consideration. :salute
We have heard literally the opposite, lol. We've been told the Navy is NOT considering sending us out to the Air Force for training at all. We're also expecting from the grapevine that November is the current target. As far as cross-pollinating to the USAF, I would sooner shoot myself. They f*** their own people over so badly, I can only IMAGINE how bad it would be for US going over there...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on June 03, 2017, 12:32:10 PM
I had a few Air Force IPs in primary. They had lots of first-hand stories of people being selected for Fighters/Bombers, going through their FRS, and actually showing up at a "fleet" squadron (I don't know what USAF calls that) only to be sent to go fly drones instead.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Puma44 on June 03, 2017, 12:57:17 PM
I had a few Air Force IPs in primary. They had lots of first-hand stories of people being selected for Fighters/Bombers, going through their FRS, and actually showing up at a "fleet" squadron (I don't know what USAF calls that) only to be sent to go fly drones instead.
True. That has happened. The AF pissed off so many pilots with that program, that they have bailed in droves to do other things. Now, the AF is in a critical shortage of fighter jocks. They are now trying to figure out how to retain "fighter" pilots vs "drone" pilots. So much so that there are now enlisted drone pilots in the pipeline.
I did 21 years in the AF. There was always some kind of BS from senior leadership who had lost a grip on reality and drove great people out. That was happening in ALL branches of the service the entire time. AND it is still happening to this day. So, it always boils down to a "pay your money and take your chances" choice. It's down to the quality of life now and in the future with consideration of a possible family.
It's always best to be on the crest of the bow wave when things are changing. It's just a matter of what you are prepared to do to get there. Color outside the box or stay in the box and wait for what gets poured in. :salute
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 03, 2017, 01:00:51 PM
True. That has happened. The AF pissed off so many pilots with that program, that they have bailed in droves to do other things. Now, the AF is in a critical shortage of fighter jocks. They are now trying to figure out how to retain "fighter" pilots vs "drone" pilots. So much so that there are now enlisted drone pilots in the pipeline.
I did 21 years in the AF. There was always some kind of BS from senior leadership who had lost a grip on reality and drove great people out. That was happening in ALL branches of the service the entire time. AND it is still happening to this day. So, it always boils down to a "pay your money and take your chances" choice. It's down to the quality of life now and in the future with consideration of a possible family.
It's always to best to be on the crest of the bow wave when things are changing. It's just a matter of how to be on the leading edge and what you are prepared to do to get there. :salute
Personally, I feel the Navy has taken REALLY good care of me. There have been hiccups, but the Service has done VERY well by me, and I have no desire to be anywhere else. Not to mention, I actually LIKE being on a ship, and want to go back to sea... lol. USAF is not even on my radar.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on June 04, 2017, 04:39:05 PM
Ever time I start wondering if I'd go back if the AF asked for a voluntary recall to flying duty, something really stupid happens that makes me remember why I got out.
The latest one... A reserve squadron, tankers if I recall correctly, has started having its pilots show up for drill in service dress. This comes at the same time that, every couple of weeks, a guard or reserve squadron posts a notice in the pilot network on facebook about taking applications for new pilots. I'm guessing that they are being run into the ground by the same kind of out of touch "leadership" that has spent the last 12ish years gutting the active AF by piling more and more nonsense into the daily lives of the pilots.
Whether its blues monday or commanders being rank-ordered by the number of troops they have with medically limiting conditions (true thing, if you break your arm and can't do pushups, your commander may get passed over for promotion), the active AF has been destroyed by non-ops desk jockeys and support clerks. Stay away, stay far far away. Unless you like that sort of thing, in which case by all means join the AF and be counted among the largest collection of pilot-haters and queep lovers in the world.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on June 04, 2017, 04:50:00 PM
I will say that there are 2 positive things about the UAV community in the AF... First, they are on the front lines of the GWOT so if you like blowing up real life slavers who torture people for fun and profit, there's no better place to be. Second, many of the commanders in the UAV squadrons/groups/wings have been successful in shielding their troops from queep. Sure a UAV driver may not get promoted, but he's also unlikely to get tasked for 6am "fun runs", FOD sweeps on holidays, "blues mondays", or any number of other administrative trivialities that have nothing at all to do with combat power projection. The UAV squadron I was in gave me an opportunity to be as much or as little involved in running the squadron as I wanted, at any level including admin or tactical tasks. Someone who doesn't like the admin queep in a UAV squadron tends to simply end up flying more, or in my case, getting shuffled UP to an operations supervision level that directly oversees OPS instead of getting shuffled to an admin desk. I spent my last 2 years in the UAV business in a minimum-manned supervisory position that prevented assignment of additional admin queep, and that seemed like a reasonable use of my experience and skills at a point in my career where I had run out of f***s to give about anything other than ops.
There are other drawbacks to the UAV world (the mental/physical strain of continuous 24 hr combat ops is very real and damaging) but at least the ops/queep ratio can, depending on the commander, be significantly higher than many other AF assignments.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 05, 2017, 01:11:38 PM
While I'm not exactly salty nor have I seen fleet life, I can say in my limited training squadron experience, there is a night and day difference between what I hear about the USAF and what I experience with USAF IPs, and what I've experience with the Navy. Nothing against the USAF, but as you said, it sounds like a lot of misery pushed down to you by desk guys, and while the USAF IPs were great guys and great pilots, they seemed to share, if on a subconscious level, a lot of that crushing admin thought process.
The Navy has treated us VERY well. I tend to get sick a lot, my immune system is terrible, and there's never been an issue with the command with me going med down. At the same time, docs will work with me if I'm feeling ill, but feel I'm still capable of flying. We don't have mando fun often (In the year I've been here, the only mandatory after-hours event was the Christmas party, and that was actually a GREAT time!). And the biggest thing is what we're experiencing right now.
Here we are, not flying. No operations to conduct. We're going to be moving hangars for renovation. If the command was so inclined, they could CRUSH us with busy work, just to be able to have a shiny letter saying they accomplished X, Y and Z. And yet, there has been no attempt to do so. If we DO need something done, they'll get a working party together, but even then they spread the load very well. If there's nothing that needs to be done, we have the mando muster every 96 hours to satisfy requirements and that's it. I may just be very lucky with this squadron, but I personally feel the Navy goes above and beyond to take care of us, and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else! (Not to be that super-motard lol)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on June 05, 2017, 03:09:06 PM
Ah to be young again. :D
Heh, heh, heh, just wait until you get sent to the boat for real. I hope you can keep those rose-colored glasses on. It's a challenging environment and my pals tell me it gets old REAL fast.
The fleet is understaffed and overworked. Hopefully that will change.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on June 05, 2017, 03:15:06 PM
This sounds remarkably similar to what the late Col David Hackworth wrote about in "About Face". He went from a Pvt to a Col in the Army, and the bureaucracy and ticket-punching took precedence over training and tactics. It was bad enough that even though the Army was his life, he got out and moved to Australia for a few decades. Seems like when any branch of the military reaches a certain size that is starts to become more a corporation than a fighting machine.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on June 05, 2017, 05:20:05 PM
This sounds remarkably similar to what the late Col David Hackworth wrote about in "About Face". He went from a Pvt to a Col in the Army, and the bureaucracy and ticket-punching took precedence over training and tactics. It was bad enough that even though the Army was his life, he got out and moved to Australia for a few decades. Seems like when any branch of the military reaches a certain size that is starts to become more a corporation than a fighting machine.
This is why Al Gray is so revered by the Marines. He turned that around.
Strangely enough, John Boyd is also beloved among the Marine Corps yet a pariah in his native service branch. The war fighters and the flying club in any branch are always at odds.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 06, 2017, 10:04:02 AM
Well, SOMETHING is progressing.
I leave for SERE in two weeks.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on June 06, 2017, 12:15:15 PM
That sounds like a lot of fun!! :banana: Have a good time!!
It's the sheets. No, seriously. Eating off the land can produce dire consequences. Saw a Gunny cry like a baby. Hang tough.
Yeah, I mean, I've been trying to lose about 5lbs, so this will be great! lol
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: nooby52 on June 06, 2017, 03:17:50 PM
I don't know where you're going for SERE, but where you live now they could just drop you off in the middle of King Ranch or Kennedy Ranch and that'd be pretty tough going for a few days.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: nooby52 on June 06, 2017, 03:18:59 PM
Heh, that 5 lbs will prolly turn into 25 lbs before it's over.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 06, 2017, 03:31:07 PM
I don't know where you're going for SERE, but where you live now they could just drop you off in the middle of King Ranch or Kennedy Ranch and that'd be pretty tough going for a few days.
lol middle of the desert in California. I've actually seen the site, when I was in El Centro we did a "victory lap" over it to motivate the dudes going through hell lol. It's gonna be pretty freaking hot lol.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on June 06, 2017, 03:44:22 PM
lol. I've never heard "fun" and "SERE" in the same sentence before...
I taught SERE at the zoo for 2 years, so here's my input...
"Fun" at SERE is 100% about the attitude. If you're a city boy who's never seen the milky way and you get all faint at the thought of eating something you just picked up off the ground, then yea its gonna be rough. On the other hand, it is EXTREMELY unlikely they're gonna let you die out there, so the best approach is to go into it with a completely open mind and be willing to accept, embrace, and most importantly, TRY everything they tell you, without reservation. Throw yourself into the experience and you'll find that it really can be fun. It's the people who resist the instruction, scoff at it, think they know better (hey I was a rock climber so I'm an expert in the mountains!!!111one that sort of thing), or otherwise don't take full advantage of the program who end up miserable.
Think about this - rich people pay thousands of dollars to go do, for fun, what you're gonna get paid to do.
Examples - when they give you instruction on what is edible in the local area, treat it as a no-kidding scavenger hunt, and try to find and eat one of everything on the list. Get that over with before you someday find yourself in a situation where you need to do it to survive. When they discuss shelters, clothing protection/preservation, set yourself the task of making the best danged shelter you can, so you can see for yourself what works, what is effective, what is a total waste of time. When you're standing in 3 ft of snow wearing nothing but a flight suit and a ejection-shredded flight jacket, that's not the right time to guess or experiment with what kind of expedient shelter you can make quickly before you spend even a moment on a "better" but more time consuming plan.
So. Try EVERYTHING. Not kidding. Eat that damned rabbit eyeball, and turn the skin into an improvised glove. In your "spare time" after dinner, grab your knife, a bone shard, and some rabbit tendon (you DID save some before throwing bunny into the stew pot right?) and see for yourself how hard it is to sew rabbit skin together. Save the bunny brains and see if you can tan a section of rabbit hide with it. Make a fish trap if you're near water.
I guarantee that you'll learn more by trying stuff out, and you'll be busy enough that it really will be interesting/fun instead of an exercise into how miserable you can convince yourself that you are.
As for food... Again, get over it. You're not gonna get enough "real" food to keep from being hungry, but you WON'T STARVE, so just get over it before training starts. No whining. If you're hungry, take that list of local edibles and go shopping around your campsite for some home-grown eats. But get over it before you even show up, because there's no mercy from the instructor cadre. And the miserable food whiners are irritating as f**k because you can't hide from the fact that they're not paying attention and will be a total drain on group resources if they ever find themselves in a real survival situation.
Night navigation - good luck, go slow and don't fall into the creek. If you get lost at night but figure it out at sunrise and execute a prompt plan to get back where you belong, they probably won't make you do it all over again.
Even resistance training... Go with it, try stuff out, all the cool kids are doing it. They'll tell you if you're fouling it up, and just remember you won't be the first to make whatever mistake it is they say you're making. Take mental notes during academics and make a point of trying out the various techniques you're given to cope with certain situations. That won't make shivering in a too-small box any more pleasant but it'll give you something to do in between hallucinations, even if all you're able to do is make a makeshift sun-dial out of cockroach parts to try to keep track of time :x
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 06, 2017, 04:08:30 PM
So. Try EVERYTHING. Not kidding. Eat that damned rabbit eyeball, and turn the skin into an improvised glove. In your "spare time" after dinner, grab your knife, a bone shard, and some rabbit tendon (you DID save some before throwing bunny into the stew pot right?) and see for yourself how hard it is to sew rabbit skin together. Save the bunny brains and see if you can tan a section of rabbit hide with it. Make a fish trap if you're near water.
THIS is going to be the hardest part. I don't mind humans getting bloodied, but I've never had the stomach for hunting personally... I know I'm going to HAVE to, so it'll happen, lol, but I'm not looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on June 06, 2017, 04:43:44 PM
Great advice from Eagl. :rock
This is probably the only time in your life you will get an experience like this. Make the best of it.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on June 06, 2017, 04:45:14 PM
THIS is going to be the hardest part. I don't mind humans getting bloodied, but I've never had the stomach for hunting personally... I know I'm going to HAVE to, so it'll happen, lol, but I'm not looking forward to it.
That's the BEST reason to volunteer to do whatever. Whether its whacking bunny, skinning or gutting thumper, eating the eyeball (vitamins!), tasting stomach contents (totally yuck but concentrated vitamins may save your life), or trying out improvised resource utilization with the hide, this is the only time it really is totally OK to concentrate on it shamelessly. Back home yea you're a weirdo if you go around investigating creative ways to use rabbit parts, but at SERE that's the whole point.
Think about it this way, and start adjusting your attitude now - You don't HAVE TO, you GET TO. I'm not kidding. Every time you start thinking "I'll HAVE TO...", b**ch slap yourself in the face and say out loud "I'll GET TO..."
Nothing can improve your SERE experience more than eliminating that sense of resignation about all the things you're gonna be forced to do, and replacing it in your mind with expectation that you'll get to play caveman, get to try stuff that really isn't socially acceptable, and its all ok because it really could save your life. And it WILL positively impact your operational career if, before you launch on any particular mission, if you're not terrified about what you might "HAVE TO DO" if you eject. You get to do it just once, for free, no repercussions, no shame, no guilt, because its real life not some tv show, not something you read about once in a book. You get one time to try it all out before you take the experiences and tuck them in your bag of tricks for when you might really need it someday.
One of the saddest military survival stories I've ever heard... Some USAF guy had a flameout in Alaska and dead-sticked the plane successfully onto a frozen lake, in a few ft of snow. He got out of the plane, walked to the treeline, walked back to his plane, pulled out his .38, and shot himself in the head. Searchers found his body less than 24 hours later.
Guess what - he probably went through sere thinking he was going to "HAVE TO" do stuff. When he shot himself, he was within 5 minutes walk of everything he needed to survive in style for weeks. The treeline had plenty of materials to make a really snazzy shelter. He had all his survival gear, so he could have made a fire big enough to burn for a month. He had a plane full of fuel dregs which, while tough to get started, would have let him keep a fire going even in a snowstorm. He had a gun to shoot any predators with or maybe even bag himself a baby moose for dinner. All that snow and a fire meant he would have had plenty of water to drink. He had a totally unused parachute which would have made fine clothing, bedding, signaling panels, you name it. His survival kit probably even had a few thousand calories of compressed granola bars and a waxy chocolate bar for immediate energy.
He had everything he needed except 2 things. He probably didn't have a positive SERE experience to give him the confidence to draw strength from, and he didn't have the will to live under challenging but totally survivable circumstances.
Don't be that guy. You don't HAVE to do stuff like skin the wabbit, you GET to whack thumper, eat him, and put on a silly puppet show with his skin at dinnertime (er... I mean demonstrate the utility of the recovered hide for both improvised clothing and morale-boosting entertainment)
If you find a snake then kill and eat it, you'll be my hero of the day and I'll buy you a bottle of just about anything after you get back. Pro tip - Some venomous snakes may have live unborn young with developed fangs/venom so be CAREFUL gutting snakes. But I'm sure your instructors will mention that little detail if/when it comes up.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on June 06, 2017, 04:54:48 PM
May as well start with some light reading to desensitize you...
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Gman on June 06, 2017, 05:16:21 PM
Fantastic post and advice Eagl, glad you're still around writing things like this.
Knowing Serenity as I do, I think he's a tough kid when you get down to it, and your words aren't going to be lost on him.
I wouldn't be looking forward to being locked into a small box a la Zero Dark Thirty, that's one thing personally I'd want to find more information about beforehand if possible, and learn some skills in how to deal with that both mentally and physically. Not a big fan of that idea, but the rest of SERE I would think is a great opportunity to learn some very valuable knowledge, to build on hunting/survival and human social engineering skills already in the quiver.
Re the snake Eagl - is it a rare thing or something to find snakes and kill/eat them on the course?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on June 06, 2017, 05:26:35 PM
I don't know where you're going for SERE, but where you live now they could just drop you off in the middle of King Ranch or Kennedy Ranch and that'd be pretty tough going for a few days.
That's no bull. I did part of my Wilderness Survival training in Scouting out there. Woke up with a javelina sniffing around my shelter. :eek:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Mister Fork on June 06, 2017, 05:33:24 PM
It's times like this Serenity that jokes about "ouuu I got a good rabbit stew recipe for SERE trainees" comes to mind. Find out what you're allowed to take with you and then if you're going with buddies, work out a system of taking various items so that at least you can maximize your experience and ease the pain and suffering.
Tips: - The hard part is the POW training- and they WILL make it tough for you for a reason. - Some of the SERE instructors will be arses, but it's their job to keep you alive in case you need to fall back on your SERE training. Don't take it personally. - Understand that everything they throw at you is because someone experienced something that could save your life and they added it to the curriculum. - Finally, talk to the IP's to see if any did SERE and if they have any tips.
Besides, it's not like they're throwing you into a "NAKED AND AFRAID" episode.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: DaveBB on June 06, 2017, 07:18:25 PM
Serenity's like "Caught the 3 wire, still counts".
And the miserable food whiners are irritating as f**k because you can't hide from the fact that they're not paying attention and will be a total drain on group resources if they ever find themselves in a real survival situation.
Isn't that the guy you gut and crawl inside of for shelter?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Toad on June 06, 2017, 10:34:53 PM
I remember getting stuffed into a very small box during the POW phase at winter survival.
It was so small I could barely expand my lungs to get a breath. Certainly not a full breath. The first few minutes were absolutely horrible. I was sure I was going to suffocate; I was really struggling to just breathe. The was an initial period of panic.
Then I analyzed. I figured bigger guys than me had been in the box and didn't die. I worked out a way to breathe in really shallow breaths that didn't require much expansion. It was almost the way a dog pants but very slowly. Then I figured I'd start counting minutes. Telling myself if I just made two more minutes they'd let me out. I counted out 30 minutes that way.
Believe it or not, I eventually fell asleep in there. Not sure how long I was in before they opened it up. I was really stiff from being cramped in a fetal ball but hey...I actually got some sleep. I like to think I snored and that pissed them off so they let me out. ;)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on June 07, 2017, 07:59:34 AM
Btw I used to work inside the fuel tanks in the wings of airplanes. I was small enough to fit in there.
We had a guy who was pretty small climb in, and then he panicked and got stuck. They say you swell up when you panic. Do not panic.
For this guy they sent me in after him and I was able to manually arrange him to get him slowly backed out. It's very tight, and it smells like fuel and there's only a limited amount of time you are allowed to be in there.
So don't panic, try to relax. Just slowly work out your problem and it'll actually go much easier.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on June 07, 2017, 09:06:17 AM
Re the snake Eagl - is it a rare thing or something to find snakes and kill/eat them on the course?
In USAF SERE courses, the instructors encourage the students to procure their own food, for practice. Anything bigger than a rabbit is generally catch and release though, since the schools try to leave a low footprint to preserve the area and ensure access.
As for a snake specifically... If he's going to be training in so-cal, I'm guessing he'll be on or near Pendleton. That's California desert, and I figure its unlikely he'll see anything EXCEPT snakes. I guess if they're particularly skilled they might find a wild rabbit, but those critters probably stay far away from the SERE training areas for obvious reasons. Not much else to catch out there. Out here in Nevada there is a desert tortoise that might be tasty but its also a protected species so it would be off limits.
Jackrabbit isn't too bad in a stew.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on June 07, 2017, 10:27:12 AM
In USAF SERE courses, the instructors encourage the students to procure their own food, for practice. Anything bigger than a rabbit is generally catch and release though, since the schools try to leave a low footprint to preserve the area and ensure access.
As for a snake specifically... If he's going to be training in so-cal, I'm guessing he'll be on or near Pendleton. That's California desert, and I figure its unlikely he'll see anything EXCEPT snakes. I guess if they're particularly skilled they might find a wild rabbit, but those critters probably stay far away from the SERE training areas for obvious reasons. Not much else to catch out there. Out here in Nevada there is a desert tortoise that might be tasty but its also a protected species so it would be off limits.
Jackrabbit isn't too bad in a stew.
Beware of rabbit starvation if forced into a real world survival situation. The meat is awfully lean.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 07, 2017, 11:41:31 AM
Well, they've changed their minds, no SERE yet lol
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on June 07, 2017, 11:43:54 AM
Well, they've changed their minds, no SERE yet lol
They probably are thinking that with the vast amount of awesome info you are getting here a mere SERE course would be redundant and a waste of time. :)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on June 07, 2017, 06:11:55 PM
SEREnity don't need no SERE. He's SEREnity.
Please n............... please.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 07, 2017, 07:22:54 PM
lol I'm still going to go at SOME point, just not in two weeks lol.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on June 07, 2017, 11:29:35 PM
The 56th Fighter Wing at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona, cancelled local flying operations today for F-35A Lightning II aircraft due to a series of five incidents in which pilots have experienced hypoxia-like symptoms.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on June 13, 2017, 10:22:36 PM
I still think your gonna end up flying robots or maybe a cook on a sub, but if they let you in a real aero-plane, does the fact that your in T-45's put you on a hornet/F-35 track, or do the turbo props with tail hooks also fly the t-45's before getting to their airframe?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 14, 2017, 11:30:28 AM
"The T-45 uniquely prepares students for the future challenges of a 21st century battlefield, namely: not being able to breathe. It's no longer a bug, it's now a feature!" <-- My quote :D
I still think your gonna end up flying robots or maybe a cook on a sub, but if they let you in a real aero-plane, does the fact that your in T-45's put you on a hornet/F-35 track, or do the turbo props with tail hooks also fly the t-45's before getting to their airframe?
All tailhook pilots (F/A-18, E-2, C-2) all train in the T-45, but we have a contract before we start in the jet, so we know for sure which community we're going to.
I'm Strike, so I'm locked into the F/A-18C/E/F or E/A-18G. If the F-35 comes out for selection before I'm done here, that will be an option too, but there's no chance of E-2/C-2 for me.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on June 14, 2017, 11:34:15 AM
"The T-45 uniquely prepares students for the future challenges of a 21st century battlefield, namely: not being able to breathe. It's no longer a bug, it's now a feature!" <-- My quote :D
All tailhook pilots (F/A-18, E-2, C-2) all train in the T-45, but we have a contract before we start in the jet, so we know for sure which community we're going to.
I'm Strike, so I'm locked into the F/A-18C/E/F or E/A-18G. If the F-35 comes out for selection before I'm done here, that will be an option too, but there's no chance of E-2/C-2 for me.
Ohhh man, how friggin cool. That's really awesome Serenity, not only do you have the honor of being a naval aviator and a tail hooker, but you get to fly the pointy nose jets. WTFG.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: nooby52 on June 15, 2017, 09:28:52 AM
...I'm Strike, so I'm locked into the F/A-18C/E/F or E/A-18G. If the F-35 comes out for selection before I'm done here, that will be an option too, but there's no chance of E-2/C-2 for me.
Not bad. WTG! :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on June 15, 2017, 11:05:01 AM
Ohhh man, how friggin cool. That's really awesome Serenity, not only do you have the honor of being a naval aviator and a tail hooker, but you get to fly the pointy nose jets. WTFG.
In theory, lol. We'll see if we ever return to flight ops!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: cav58d on June 15, 2017, 03:10:51 PM
The dude who did the rabbit demo was WAY too excited about it...
Gotta be passionate about your job no matter what it is... Just ask Mike Rowe :)
Was sere anything like you expected? What part of your own experience was or was not what you expected? Just curious, 'cause you were pretty tense about it before.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 19, 2017, 09:29:48 PM
Gotta be passionate about your job no matter what it is... Just ask Mike Rowe :)
Was sere anything like you expected? What part of your own experience was or was not what you expected? Just curious, 'cause you were pretty tense about it before.
I WAS really tense. Not going into too much detail (I'm not COMPLETELY sure what's fair game to talk about, so I'll err on the side of caution):
Survival and evasion was actually great fun. The impromptu group I formed and led were the only ones to make it to the extract point at night safely. So that was that.
Captivity: The box we lived in was smaller than I thought, and so the most uncomfortable part of the experience. The small punishment box was larger than I expected, and I was in it for a very short period, so it wasn't that bad. Honestly, it was definitely more difficult than I expected it to be, but at the same time I handled it a lot better than I expected I would.
SERE was the singular most challenging experience I've had so far, but it was also the best, most educational school I've ever been to.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: eagl on August 20, 2017, 12:49:40 AM
SERE was the singular most challenging experience I've had so far, but it was also the best, most educational school I've ever been to.
That's about what I figured would happen. It's one of those facing your fears things, cuts a little deeper than those falling backwards trust exercises though.
What's the current method for snuffing the bunny? When my scout troop visited Navy SERE, they'd hold thumper by the back legs and swing his head into a tree or rock. In USAF, they hold bunny by the back legs but use a stick to whack the back of his head. Similar results though.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: NatCigg on August 20, 2017, 10:13:44 AM
reminds me of fishing as a child. guy helped me kill a fish. he grabbed it and hit the back of its neck on a rock. done deal, here's your trout.
:salute
p.s. now take the guts out and put them in a coke can, set in the water and pluck crawdads. rip off tail and put on hook. catch more trout.
A good day.
:lol
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on August 20, 2017, 11:09:58 AM
That's about what I figured would happen. It's one of those facing your fears things, cuts a little deeper than those falling backwards trust exercises though.
What's the current method for snuffing the bunny? When my scout troop visited Navy SERE, they'd hold thumper by the back legs and swing his head into a tree or rock. In USAF, they hold bunny by the back legs but use a stick to whack the back of his head. Similar results though.
Hold by the back lags, hit on the back of the head to knock it out. Put over your shoulders with one hand on the feet, one on the throat...
And I quote: "Give it the 'old razzle dazzle..." and rip the head clean off.
And skin it by biting through the skin on the back with your teeth and ripping/de-gloving.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Kanth on August 21, 2017, 12:39:43 PM
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Devil 505 on September 02, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
I believe that chart shows the required depth of flooding to be flooded in those areas.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Gman on September 02, 2017, 05:10:33 PM
I read a couple articles on various Defense journals I read every day, and both said that the Navy training bases were going to be greatly affected. Foxtrot Alpha's creator has a new defense site, and posted this last week.
Hope that Serenity and his fellow armed forces members have weathered this storm.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on September 02, 2017, 05:37:53 PM
I haven't been to NASCC, but I DID hear it was like 8 feet underwater or something ridiculous. Kingsville wasn't even touched. I went out to Rockport today to volunteer for cleanup and it was WRECKED.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Serenity on September 14, 2017, 07:51:45 AM
FINALLY got back into the air last night. Nothing exciting, just hopped up to College Station to get some tacos lol. When we pulled up and shut down, we thought we were the coolest kids in town. But when we got back from dinner, we realized someone else had showed up to steal our thunder!
FINALLY got back into the air last night. Nothing exciting, just hopped up to College Station to get some tacos lol. When we pulled up and shut down, we thought we were the coolest kids in town. But when we got back from dinner, we realized someone else had showed up to steal our thunder!
LOL! That's a great picture, Pilots are walking to their waiting jets but all eyes are on the P51. As it should be, everything is still all right with the world.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Vraciu on September 14, 2017, 01:15:57 PM
MARINES! OOH RAH!
(Marines don't have feelings.)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on September 14, 2017, 04:05:51 PM
The last I heard, he was flying a cargo plane full of novelty gag gifts out of Hong Kong.
You mean rubber sheit?
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Brooke on February 23, 2018, 05:59:16 PM
He told me that the realism of the F-18 was off, and that despite his writing letters to McDonnell Douglas quoting proof from chat-board posts, they haven't fixed the realism flaws.
As a result, he decided to quit.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Devil 505 on February 23, 2018, 07:46:48 PM
He told me that the realism of the F-18 was off, and that despite his writing letters to McDonnell Douglas quoting proof from chat-board posts, they haven't fixed the realism flaws.
As a result, he decided to quit.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Oldman731 on February 23, 2018, 10:20:12 PM
He told me that the realism of the F-18 was off, and that despite his writing letters to McDonnell Douglas quoting proof from chat-board posts, they haven't fixed the realism flaws.
As a result, he decided to quit.
Oy. Another rage quit.
He'll be back. Just like the others.
- oldman (Serenity wasn't a GV type, was he?)
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: 100Coogn on February 23, 2018, 10:24:17 PM
He told me that the realism of the F-18 was off, and that despite his writing letters to McDonnell Douglas quoting proof from chat-board posts, they haven't fixed the realism flaws.
As a result, he decided to quit.
His letter was returned to sender. Needs to forward it to Boeing.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Nefarious on February 24, 2018, 04:49:35 PM
I'm friends with him on FB. Not sure how much flying he's been doing, but he's been doing OK.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Bear76 on February 25, 2018, 10:16:24 PM
At this rate, maybe you should review bailout procedures for the next op?? :O :devil
LOL! I was thinking the same thing!
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on December 13, 2018, 10:49:52 AM
I understand that this thread hasn't been posted in ... in awhile. Serenity, you may be too busy to post with real life (living the life and protecting us dweebs from threats abroad .... or you're on leave). Just checkin' in on yas. Drop us a line if ya get the chance. If not, I'm imagining all sorts of daring do adventures on your behalf.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Nefarious on December 13, 2018, 12:31:19 PM
I'm friends with him on Facebook. He's doing well. I believe he is learning to fly helicopters now.
Title: Re: Stories from FL280...
Post by: Arlo on December 13, 2018, 04:06:11 PM