General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LCADolby on March 20, 2016, 02:38:28 PM
Title: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 20, 2016, 02:38:28 PM
I have been spending my time in the beta mostly recently but I had one encounter that has left me scratching my head.
I'll have to paraphrase but it went like this on the open channel; "I don't think I know anyone better at this. There must be a reason. Thanks for taking the fun out of it. Bye"
Now on the face of it that begs the question; Are the people that are good at AcesHigh the reason players log off?
Is ENY and all those other excuses just ones they fall back on to refuse to admit that the difficulty is very high when facing certain others and one would rather not admit? Especially against those who have good hand eye coordination and others that have a high capacity for information retention, which is what most of flying Aceshigh is. Knowing the opponents aircraft as well as your own can often be the tiny advantage needed to come out the other side of the fight.
The best fights are those that go on for a long time, you start to feel a sweat when both players are equally matched. But this cannot always be so, it has to be embedded in every single players mind that there is always some one better than you, and that it is up to you to learn from them. Many of these players freely share their knowledge and experience, you just have to ask. It may be the beginning of a good friendship, and in AcesHigh they last a long time. Given time, practise and patience you can give these guys a run for thier money, and get that adrenaline rush when you get that victory you have worked hard for. The fun is always there if you don't give up, fun in the learning, fun in the information you read, fun in the interactions you can have. It's great if you make the most of it.
Thinking back on the encounter it could be just a veiled "cheater" whine that requires some small inbetween the lines reading, but regardless of that I was surprised by the lack of determination shown by the player making the comment. It has me perplexed. One of the things that got me hooked to AcesHigh was the level of difficulty, the pursuit of information on how to fly these warbirds like heroes generations prior. Has this been lost in recent times or am I just getting old and over thinking? Anyway I am one of those people you can ask, I am happy to share what I know. Just don't give up too soon before the fun really begins. :salute
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2016, 02:45:40 PM
Oh, I hope not.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 20, 2016, 02:49:35 PM
I've been accused of the same thing from time to time over the years but most of those complaints were thinly veiled cheat whines of the "no one could be that good, you must cheat!" variety. Those that have threatened to quit the game over it haven't, I still see them playing and whining.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: wil3ur on March 20, 2016, 03:08:56 PM
I logged off when it was 6 v 1 and you couldn't even wait for me to get 100 ft off the ground before you all started buzzing me. Don't expect many people to stick around in a low numbers arena if all you're going to do is pick people fresh off the runway.
Not that I died, I landed successfully, but I will not support that style of tardiness... if that's how the gameplay will be, I'll stick to the MA until it switches over. At least in the MA there's more than 1 fight to choose from.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Kanth on March 20, 2016, 03:10:37 PM
It's possible some quit when they get beat down too much.
But then what? They will either suck it up and do their time and take their lumps and possibly reach out in, one of the many ways they can, and get help.
Or they might quit. It's entirely up to them.
It can be a tough learning curve and not everyone will be great at this, and certainly not any time SOON after they start. Some folks can't handle that, some folks have the time to get in the hours to become fairly good.
You also never know where their head is on any given day. I've been gone since 2003. I fly about an hour a week (in FSO), not enough to get the rust off. I just take my lumps because I don't have the time to get the rust off right now but I really like flying with/dying near old friends.
Sometimes I admire folks skill and sometimes I want them to burn on any given day. Has nothing to do with them. :cheers:
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2016, 03:14:03 PM
Dammit, if you can't vulch him in a timely manner .....
I agree with him though. If the numbers are low, try and make the most of the testing and put the bs aside.
When AH2 came out, my squad(Crazy Diamonds), most wanted and a few others lived in the Early war arena. Why? All of us had been there and done that. It became more of lets fly what normally doesn't and have some hilarious times. Sadly, there are many they need that message to appear to fulfil some semblance of reassurance. For xbrit, PK, KillnU, Bj229r, OddCAF, Anton, oldemon, DH367, ghosth, stang and others? It was a perfect time to help each other through competition and nobody vulched with any regularity. Although 6 vs 1? That speaks volumes of who the vulchees were.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 20, 2016, 04:09:44 PM
No one vulched, and only 3 were over his field, 1 of which wasn't targeting aircraft but ground guns. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Zimme83 on March 20, 2016, 04:17:47 PM
Every player will pick, Ho, vulch and run as soon as he/she gets a chance and we all love it cause we can have the "XX landed Y kills" and get the WTG:s on country channel. Its sucks to be in the receiving end of it but that is the side effect of our ego boosting, that sometimes we have to boost someone else's ego..
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: wil3ur on March 20, 2016, 04:27:43 PM
Lol Dolby in his f4u4 was the first to dive in, followed closely by a Ki84 and 2 P51's, meanwhile a spitfire and another KI84 were 10K out and on their way in
True, Dolby quit going after me after his 1st pass and proceeded to begin deacking, the other 3 continued on me until I landed.
So 4 officially on me, 2 hauling bellybutton to try and get in and join up.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: FESS67 on March 20, 2016, 04:57:15 PM
I read the original statement as a 'you must be cheating' veil.
As far as Wilburs comment, I logged into the Beta just as you were logging off Dolby and what I saw were 3 players bouncing 2 players lifting off. I was the 4th one into that area and I asked on 200 for guns cold so I could get close to other aircraft to test graphics. LOL needless to say they were not in the mood to be kind and I guess did not know it was my first run that night.
IMO it should be used as a test area and people should try to help in that respect. Vulching off the field is helping no one IMO
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Masherbrum on March 20, 2016, 05:02:21 PM
IMO it should be used as a test area and people should try to help in that respect. Vulching off the field is helping no one IMO
Exactly. Leave the MA "get kills anyway you can" mentality in the MA. Help test the beta and give feedback to the devs, or stay in the MA.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: JunkyII on March 20, 2016, 05:26:48 PM
I log off because A) I have to because of real life stuff...or B) Because the quality of fights suck.
It sounds like a person was getting vulched in BETA...nothing about skill should ever come from a situation about vulching...
BETA in my opinion should have set fights like you would have in the DA.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 20, 2016, 05:29:53 PM
I stream actual events, it can be used to clear up said issues with Wilbur's accuracy. But needless to say his quarrel has nothing to do with what I OP
https://www.twitch.tv/glendinho/v/55661736
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: waystin2 on March 20, 2016, 05:29:57 PM
You will never improve until you admit that a bad decision you made led to your demise. :aok
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: JunkyII on March 20, 2016, 05:49:50 PM
I don't think the learning curve is actually that steep....some just get set in a certain spot and stick there because they have some success maybe landing a good bit of kills....they don't ask anyone for help because their ego can't take it (that's where I find it funny when people say I chest thump or brag a lot) literally was in the TA the other day for 30 minutes with another pilot.. and boom he's killing it later that night in KOTH fighting 10 minute long fights against people who are considered some of the best in game....it's little things that keep a lot of people from the top...and once your there is more of a any given sunday. Don't think there is an active pilot that I can't kill 1v1 at least 1 of 7. A lot of shades out there giving me a run lately...looking forward to you old heads coming out of the shadows and fighting like men again.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2016, 07:48:00 PM
(And some of us still won't improve - ask my squadron training officer.)
Make it bigger, it won't matter. It isn't about being vultched and upping from the next field back. This thread is about a Beta Arena that should be used for testing and feedback....... But some would rather not help improve the community and the game itself. Selfishness has long been accepted/endorsed and some of the posts in here prove it.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2016, 08:03:14 PM
Not seeing anywhere where this : "You will never improve until you admit that a bad decision you made led to your demise." is about selfishness.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: The Fugitive on March 20, 2016, 08:26:58 PM
I couldn't tell if the other vulched, but Dolby didn't. This is more about a player cry about something fully in his control.
If the others did, as well as the "attitude" of the player complaining about being vulched are the ones that will kill this game. The "all mighty kill count" is all that is important to most players these days. The "how" is unimportant.
Quitting the game due to getting killed by better players (pros) I don't think is an issue. Some nights I'll go head to head with the better players until they go lame. Ganging, HOing be cause "they couldn't get me any other way" and so on, I'll just move to another side/fight. I'm sure players with less skill will move away from an area when it is known that one of the better players are player. It is your choice if you want to jump in where the sharks are.
As for the Beta, why would anyone think there would be a better class of player in there? I would hope that those playing in there would be working together to test both the game and their systems out, but we all know that kill total is far to important to most players and so you get the continuing lame play.
Players guide how the game is played. The graphics are going to cause adjustments in game play just due to the layouts of the fields and towns being different. Human nature will guide the rest. I do hope we have "matured" in our game play and we will have a better game play experience. I fear we wont though.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Masherbrum on March 20, 2016, 09:05:21 PM
Restaint in a Beta Testing Arena should be the core issue here. Taking a lame vulching pass and then deacking is lame all around. Defending that lameness instead of actually trying to better the game you play, is foreign to quite a few it seems.
Good luck building the community back up, because if this thread is any indication. There is no pot of gold and it is a shame.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 20, 2016, 09:40:01 PM
I am so pleased that at no point did vulching cross my mind and the film in my last post proved.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2016, 09:47:31 PM
Restaint in a Beta Testing Arena should be the core issue here. Taking a lame vulching pass and then deacking is lame all around. Defending that lameness instead of actually trying to better the game you play, is foreign to quite a few it seems.
Good luck building the community back up, because if this thread is any indication. There is no pot of gold and it is a shame.
Well, that helped. Loads. If a guy can't stand getting vulched in the beta he sure as Hades won't take it well in the main. Better to help them get over it than kid glove `em til someone forgets to and they rage quit then, instead.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: 8thJinx on March 20, 2016, 11:11:16 PM
I'd like to add my two cents. There actually was point for me maybe 10 or 12 months after I started playing that I said to myself, "I'm never going to be as good these sticks that keep killing me." I was ready to hang it up. Not that I was openly complaining, but I felt that I just couldn't get the hang of it. It wasn't worth the 15 bucks a month to me to keep getting plastered every single sortie I flew. But I stuck it out, and learned a little here and there, new defensive moves, how to reverse on someone, how to rope. I started saving film, looking at what I could have done different. I stopped making dumb decisions, like climbing up into a fight, or upping at field that's getting vulched (although there is no bigger adrenaline rush for me than taking off in an I16 during a vulch).
Now 3 years down the road I'm a decent gv'er, and middle of the road pilot. And these days, every so often when I land 5 air kills or some new guy accuses me of cheating, the feeling is simply exquisite. Actually, when a good stick accuses me of cheating, it's even better. So I'd recommend that the new players study film and make better decisions.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Bear76 on March 21, 2016, 01:28:47 AM
I have been spending my time in the beta mostly recently but I had one encounter that has left me scratching my head.
I'll have to paraphrase but it went like this on the open channel; "I don't think I know anyone better at this. There must be a reason. Thanks for taking the fun out of it. Bye"
Now on the face of it that begs the question; Are the people that are good at AcesHigh the reason players log off?
Is ENY and all those other excuses just ones they fall back on to refuse to admit that the difficulty is very high when facing certain others and one would rather not admit? Especially against those who have good hand eye coordination and others that have a high capacity for information retention, which is what most of flying Aceshigh is. Knowing the opponents aircraft as well as your own can often be the tiny advantage needed to come out the other side of the fight.
The best fights are those that go on for a long time, you start to feel a sweat when both players are equally matched. But this cannot always be so, it has to be embedded in every single players mind that there is always some one better than you, and that it is up to you to learn from them. Many of these players freely share their knowledge and experience, you just have to ask. It may be the beginning of a good friendship, and in AcesHigh they last a long time. Given time, practise and patience you can give these guys a run for thier money, and get that adrenaline rush when you get that victory you have worked hard for. The fun is always there if you don't give up, fun in the learning, fun in the information you read, fun in the interactions you can have. It's great if you make the most of it.
Thinking back on the encounter it could be just a veiled "cheater" whine that requires some small inbetween the lines reading, but regardless of that I was surprised by the lack of determination shown by the player making the comment. It has me perplexed. One of the things that got me hooked to AcesHigh was the level of difficulty, the pursuit of information on how to fly these warbirds like heroes generations prior. Has this been lost in recent times or am I just getting old and over thinking? Anyway I am one of those people you can ask, I am happy to share what I know. Just don't give up too soon before the fun really begins. :salute
Well said. The TA used to have 10 to 20 players in it regularly years ago. Guys took the time to learn and asked for help or were offered it. I spent hundreds of hours in there flying with new squaddies or just practicing with a squad or others. The place is empty most of the time now. It's not about flying well and improving anymore, for the most part. Good fights are harder to find these days.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: zack1234 on March 21, 2016, 01:36:48 AM
Someone thinks Dolby is good at this game? :rofl
He wears flip flops to work you know :old:
It should be law that your real face should be displayed on the forums, it would explain lots of things :old:
That picture of Debrody in his Amish hat explained why he was brat :old:
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Chilli on March 21, 2016, 05:02:27 AM
As I was there during said dispute, all in all it was a good day. In fact, I came here to give applause to the developers for beta and the players for taking the time today to actually populate it. The best numbers that I have ever seen there. :rock
Dolby, honestly the 200 chat could have gone better, and that goes both ways. :salute You and I had some very light banter, clearly joking... but if we weren't folks that knew each other, it could have been taken the wrong way. I am glad that it didn't because it did make for a challenge, and put a smile on my face.
Wilbur, you weren't the only one that didn't particularly care for the "smack" talk on 200. There was another player in a discussion with Dolby around the same time (no need to name folks, and no harm was done). I saw there were equal numbers on the roster but your team was outnumbered at that field as others were testing base capture and other areas of the CraterMA map. I and other players switched to even things up got in some good furball action.
This to me is perfect beta testing environment, no perk points to win or lose, no side change limit, and targets willing to engage (even if it is from a greater advantage). Later on there was a concerted attempt at keeping a 262 from getting too far from his airfield, as well as the normal furball wingman setups.
Basically, the temperature in the room :devil could have been dialed down, but the cartoon pilot :airplane: interaction :joystick: was mostly good and healthy for the upcoming release. Framerates were good, players were exchanging helpful hints, and differences in FOV, tracer size were being discussed and adjusted to... all good things for beta test results.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: GScholz on March 21, 2016, 10:12:44 AM
This game is about capturing airfields to win. Why do people still believe that launching from a capped airfield is a viable alternative? Take off from the closest airfield and grab some alt while you're at it before you go hunting those goons.
As for being called a cheater... That just means you're so good the other guy thinks you did something impossible. It's the highest praise you can get in any game!
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: 1ijac on March 21, 2016, 10:23:40 AM
Actually, the beta arenas at this point is to look for bugs and post findings in the open beta forum. This allows HTC to address the issues so AH3 can move forward. Players in the testing arenas should ask other players if they want to engage or not. Someone may be setting up a certain scenario to test something and another player trying to kill them hinders the tester's efforts. Please keep this in mind.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Masherbrum on March 21, 2016, 10:25:47 AM
Actually, the beta arenas at this point is to look for bugs and post findings in the open beta forum. This allows HTC to address the issues so AH3 can move forward. Players in the testing arenas should ask other players if they want to engage or not. Someone may be setting up a certain scenario to test something and another player trying to kill them hinders the tester's efforts. Please keep this in mind.
Finally! Another competent person who understands what the beta arena is for.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 21, 2016, 11:02:45 AM
The particular Arena is under a tab called "Melee". :old:
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on March 21, 2016, 11:09:53 AM
I'll offer some feedback on this, as a part-time and very definitely non-elite cartoon pilot:
Sometimes, the match is so asymmetrical that the only thing you CAN do is log - or stay on and watch your ratio get pounded down.
I remember once when I was just starting out, I kept running into Gumpsta, and he shot me down about 5 times in a row - and without much fuss. I logged, but only after vowing revenge.
Since then, I've learned a lot and found that, at least when I'm flying well, I'm much less likely, given that I have retained a lot of information about relative strengths (on the lines of, KI-84! Quick, what advantages does g-14 have relative to it) and weaknesses, to get stomped on as frequently. That said, there are still bad days. For example, ACB - a guy who's been around forever, schooled me in a series of happenstance 1:1s recently, even beating me in a Spit XVI with a g-14 ( I know what I did wrong). Or, also recently, the anti-horde boys, especially when they're together, usually hang my scalp, often more than once. However, even with those guys, there is a chance at redemption. I've managed at least one kill on several of them - including one on their most notorious members, albeit via a lucky crossing shot. Those guys spend so much time in-game, it's nothing to them.
But, that's the challenge. I actually like the way acb handled it via mute combat, showing me where I was screwing up in each instance: SPit XVI vs G-14 (me)Spit XVI vs K-4 (me), G-14 vs Spit XVI (me). He killed me each time, then fired off a salute. Each combat was instructive. I actually considered the possibility he might be cheating... but, in retrospect, seriously doubt it. I mean, in the last combat, I'm certain my speed in the XVI was way off corner.
Ultimately, adulthood is about being able to take the abuse... Why? To get to the good stuff..? Maybe. Or maybe it's just to take more abuse.
But, if you love air combat, it's worth it. I still remember the first time I successfully executed a rolling scissor in a d-9 and flew my opponent, who was in a Jug, into the ground. Priceless.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: NatCigg on March 21, 2016, 04:08:35 PM
yes, people log out for losing. yes, people get upset when losing. any normal person would quit after being beaten repeatedly. Especially if the abuser plays this game well and for the win. Enough alt, speed, plane and tactics used by one player and this game becomes extremely boring and difficult for the opponent. my god then they vulch. through such madness it is a miracle there is more than insane dweebs that continue to subscribe.
That said, I personally would hold fire in the beta area if i had control of the fight. It is just more fun that way. sure it is playing with your food but still funner for both in the end. be aware that refraining from shooting a bear in a cage has its risks, i never once saw a bear refrain from biting back if given a chance. Nevertheless, consider the higher ground and fun for all when flying with minimal company, it is more rewarding than the kill imo.
:salute
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: bustr on March 21, 2016, 04:29:17 PM
During the closed alpha, the only way I could get other alpha testers to help me test gunnery, damage modeling and gunsights when Waffle was working on them, was if I agreed to let them all shoot me as the test plane. Otherwise it was yeah well ok maybe later Uh I gotta go do something. The majority of players treated allowing anyone to shoot them as the test plane like they were admitting they liked guys and not girls in bed. So yes, I can believe what your player said in the beta Dolby.
Most of the time gunnery testing was a crap shoot anyway. Most players couldn't control how they aimed or shot so you could look at the damage incrementally several rounds at a time from F3 mode. Very few could just plink an outboard wing panel on demand as a tester. Most often it was all or nothing. And then there were the usual jokers who just liked easy kills how ever they got them, even if it was during a testing session in a half finished alpha arena.
He was probably under the delusion that beta still meant testing and looking for bugs, not MA as usual game play. A fish bowel with a single guppy and a bunch of sharks is not fun for the guppy any way you try to spin it. We may have an issue with that until numbers pick up again to make up for those guppy's not staying past the 2 week trial over shark related issues.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2016, 05:03:48 PM
Hell, code alternating side log-ins with no country switching. :D
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 21, 2016, 06:03:26 PM
A good way to get more people into the beta is to offer some form of incentive, like beta testers that logged XXX amount of hours in the beta get a bunch of free perks.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: ImADot on March 21, 2016, 06:35:29 PM
A good way to get more people into the beta is to offer some form of incentive, like beta testers that logged XXX amount of hours in the beta get a bunch of free perks.
The incentive should be that nice feeling inside that they helped to bring a new version of a game they like to the market quickly and with as few bugs as possible. If you have to bribe someone with perks, all they'll do is show up, screw around and leave after the allotted time, just to get their reward. Much like staying logged into the MA to get those win the war perks without really doing anything to earn them.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Masherbrum on March 21, 2016, 07:11:49 PM
The incentive should be that nice feeling inside that they helped to bring a new version of a game they like to the market quickly and with as few bugs as possible. If you have to bribe someone with perks, all they'll do is show up, screw around and leave after the allotted time, just to get their reward. Much like staying logged into the MA to get those win the war perks without really doing anything to earn them.
This.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2016, 07:30:14 PM
That. But that being said, apparently good feelings isn't working.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 21, 2016, 09:58:01 PM
Beta arena is just like the MA, 5 TigerIIs and a fighter trolling an airfield for vulches and my handsomehunk in Ju87, pleading for sides to be even for some fun... :rolleyes: :rofl
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 21, 2016, 10:30:21 PM
The incentive should be that nice feeling inside that they helped to bring a new version of a game they like to the market quickly and with as few bugs as possible.
Unfortunately that is not enough incentive for most players to test out a beta.
Quote
If you have to bribe someone with perks, all they'll do is show up, screw around and leave after the allotted time, just to get their reward. Much like staying logged into the MA to get those win the war perks without really doing anything to earn them.
Sadly, that is the reality. You do need to pretty much bribe players with some sort of reward for testing out betas, even those that get that "nice feeling inside" from helping out. Which is why pretty it's pretty much standard in the industry to offer some sort of reward for those helping to test out major enhancements to the game.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: bustr on March 21, 2016, 11:29:18 PM
From the closed alpha to the beta now, many people just wanted to see what it looked like then left.
Others were overwhelmed by being alone in a test arena thinking they didn't know what they were supposed to do. When I bumped into people and it was obvious they were stumped at what testing they were to do. I asked them to help me look at things to see what would happen or what changes from the last patch and so forth. Sent a lot of guys to go bail over the new HQ, strats and town object to walk around and look for things to report. We used 200 as the general VOX testing channel and I just kept asking them to poke their noses into things. Then we would talk about what they found, share info on new features we found and I would always tell them to go write a report about it in the forum. Back then at the new HQ object we discovered a pilot bug where one pilot could get his gun arm stuck in another pilots back end while trying to back shoot him. Only fix was to ef out. Had some interesting pistol fights while running around the new HQ object looking for bugs.
I told everyone that where the game was concerned they were experts at doing the game. So go out and do everything you like to do or just try flying or driving every ride to look it all over. Drive Gv's around and shoot at things. Walk and drive around bases, strats, down into the ocean. Just do things to see if the game would break the same as you have invested your last few years in learning how to do. If something is broken, you will know it. A number of those guys have stayed with the testing since 2014 and 2015 with me.
None of you know about Waffle's joke where he put his finger print in the file that created the gunsight reflector plate mask for one of the Me410 rear gunsights. Guess he wanted to know if anyone was really checking the work he had done to the reflector plates and gave as a testing task to check all gunsights. So I found his greasy finger prints on the edges of the Revi16 glass plate back during the alpha. Other wise repeatedly looking in cockpits or spawning every aircraft to walk around all of them gets old after a few months.
The beta is fun and easy compared to the monotony of the alphas for 18 months. By the way, how many of you have found Roy's? It's still a single building in the game with a big sign that says Roy's out front. Can't miss it if you have been driving around TT looking for broken things.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Kodiak on March 22, 2016, 12:13:57 PM
Unfortunately that is not enough incentive for most players to test out a beta.
Sadly, that is the reality. You do need to pretty much bribe players with some sort of reward for testing out betas, even those that get that "nice feeling inside" from helping out. Which is why pretty it's pretty much standard in the industry to offer some sort of reward for those helping to test out major enhancements to the game.
Every game I've seen in BETA or Alpha people in them get incentives like you said....H1Z1 split into 2 games, if you were there before the split you get both free...now you have to pay for each.
I don't log into BETA because A) nobody in there so I don't know what to do and B) when there is people in there they won't fight(I ask them of course first not just up and kill them) which is what I would like to test, specifically the tracers (Shooting AI planes isn't a real test...need to test them in an actual fight against another player for it to be a real good test IMO)
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 22, 2016, 04:24:35 PM
I don't log into BETA because A) nobody in there so I don't know what to do and B) when there is people in there they won't fight(I ask them of course first not just up and kill them) which is what I would like to test, specifically the tracers (Shooting AI planes isn't a real test...need to test them in an actual fight against another player for it to be a real good test IMO)
Lately I've found that in the afternoons (PST time) there have been an average of 15-20 people flying in the CraterMA beta arena, had some pretty good fights.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Bruv119 on March 22, 2016, 05:20:54 PM
Beta arena is just like the MA, 5 TigerIIs and a fighter trolling an airfield for vulches and my handsomehunk in Ju87, pleading for sides to be even for some fun... :rolleyes: :rofl
hey dolby with those specs of yours are you getting solid performance with everything cranked?
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 22, 2016, 07:15:54 PM
Yes B, it's been very good to me and worth the outlay
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Bruv119 on March 22, 2016, 07:36:31 PM
Yes B, it's been very good to me and worth the outlay
Just priced up a rebuild for mobo, 2x8gig ram, 8GB card and I5 6600k for £600. Will wait until AH3 final release see prices come down a bit more. Also devise a likely story that will somehow pass spending security checks. :devil
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 22, 2016, 09:05:37 PM
I test my builds on cyberpower's website, give a good price guide.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: JunkyII on March 22, 2016, 10:05:29 PM
Lately I've found that in the afternoons (PST time) there have been an average of 15-20 people flying in the CraterMA beta arena, had some pretty good fights.
I'll have to check it out
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: zack1234 on March 23, 2016, 02:35:46 AM
When are you out on parole Dolby we miss you :old:
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 23, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
I think the ankle bracelet comes off in May :neener:
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: zack1234 on March 24, 2016, 11:23:16 AM
Good news I get out in 12 months
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Chilli on March 24, 2016, 02:08:11 PM
Zack,
Hacksawing one into does not count as getting out, persee .....
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Groth on March 24, 2016, 06:06:45 PM
Easy solution...newbies icons should flash. Than we know to let them kill us....
What? Why won't that work? I'm sure we ALL want more new players..... JGroth
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 24, 2016, 10:31:52 PM
Easy solution...newbies icons should flash. Than we know to let them kill us....
What? Why won't that work? I'm sure we ALL want more new players..... JGroth
NEWU12533472
Ring a bell?
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: FishBait on March 25, 2016, 11:09:40 AM
It's wasn't that long ago that I was new to this game, so I still vividly remember the frustration of upping over & over & over again, only to be shot down by the same handful of names... over & over & over again. My life expectancy was measured in seconds. And landing a kill... forget it. I literally thought there was something wrong with my computer based on how impossible the task of lining up my sights on a rapidly-moving seemed. I think it took me a good week of play before I landed one kill. Seriously. I was that bad. And the weeks that followed weren't much better.
Considering where I'm at now (not great, but can hold my own), I don't think this pattern is an anomoly. New players have a huge learning curve ahead of them before the game has a chance to become enjoyable. And while sheer determination to not exit the game a complete loser forced me to soldier on, I don't see succumbing to frustration and giving up on the game early on to be a character flaw. The way I see it, a large percentage of potential future players are turned off from the start. There are plenty of ways to have fun that don't involve the study of ACM tactics. If a new player's carrot is too far from their nose to sniff, they're going to move on to something else more palatable.
I'd love to see changes made in the game to better support new players, but as we're not in charge of the game, we need to do what we can. That means saluting players who put forth the effort to fight, even if their flying is subpar. That means PM'ing these same players and offering friendly suggestions for improvement. That means offering to help new players in the TA/DA. It means remembering how much we all sucked from the beginning, and becoming the mentors we all had who got us to the point where we could get some fun out of the game.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: hgtonyvi on March 25, 2016, 11:16:25 AM
Very well said fishbait. You know since you have been with us that I always offer tips and training if you need them.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Zoney on March 25, 2016, 11:21:03 AM
I too remember what it was to be new. It was over 20 years ago for me, in AirWarrior. The experience was not quite the same as yours though. I remember very well the excitement of the game just booting up for the first time, it took 20 hours to download. I had never played anything on line before and it was also my very first computer. The very first thing I searched for was "Flying Games" through AOL and AirWarrior was on the top of the list. I was hooked the very first time I rolled down the runway. Then I attacked this guy who reversed me in about 3 seconds after negating my advantage. Rolled again, shot down again by the same guy. I kept rolling and trying everything I could to just get some kind of shot. It was probably about 20 of these glorious deaths in a row when finally, I pulled in behind and just held the trigger down. The guy made real slow moves and I was able to get my first kill. It was Deth7 from the PigStompers. He had pulled in front of me and pretty much held still on purpose so I could shoot him down. He invited me to his squad and taught me everything he could in the days, weeks, months, and years that followed.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Kanth on March 25, 2016, 12:18:22 PM
I agree very well said, FishBait :salute
Nice post Zoney, we need more folks willing to be like Deth7 in the MA.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: wil3ur on March 25, 2016, 06:24:16 PM
I'm not new, and they failed to vulch me... and that wasn't as much the point of my post as to state that the premise of the OP is a little off-base. While Dobs is a great stick and fun to fly with, I felt that in the current setting and with numbers being as they were, he and the others involved could have engaged in a little sportsmanship... possibly a little foreplay before trying to dive elbow deep inside of me. As such, rather than get frustrated and be killed over and over again, I moved to an arena with other opportunities for combat, or at least more targets on the ground taking off to hopefully avoid the vulch.
...but well said.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on March 25, 2016, 06:30:50 PM
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Groth on March 25, 2016, 07:33:12 PM
BTW... There are plenty of time wasters on the internet, other games and RL for newbs tired of learning curve...so keep killing them quick as you can....and this game will die with them leaving. But don't worry..you'll be hero of empty game. JGroth
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 25, 2016, 07:48:53 PM
Wilbur, I am of the belief that you believe I made this post about you. I'd liketo clear this up and say, sadly the event in the OP happened long after you allowed delusion to take control over how many were "vulching" you and left. I think it would be to your benefit to watch my posted stream of you taking your ball.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: wil3ur on March 26, 2016, 11:24:56 AM
So the only thing your stream failed to catch was the other two guys coming in from your field. And I apologize, you didn't try and vulch me, you were merely deacking the field, however that first pass from within my cockpit looked suspiciously like you diving on me, especially considering you didn't start doing that until I was upping.
So, I'll concede the point that 6 people hadn't technically arrived, 4 were there, and 3 were actively attempting to kill be before I was 50 feet off the ground. There was even the disappointed "damn he landed" one of the people you were flying with. Regardless, if that's the type of gameplay you're going for in a low numbers arena, I'll go to another fight and you guys can continue to deack an empty base and hope someone ups for a free kill.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: caldera on March 26, 2016, 11:27:57 AM
What is the purpose of de-acking an airfield though, if not to vulch?
De-acking a town or V-base is necessary to take it, but there is only one reason to de-ack an airfield.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: The Fugitive on March 26, 2016, 01:13:53 PM
What is the purpose of de-acking an airfield though, if not to vulch?
De-acking a town or V-base is necessary to take it, but there is only one reason to de-ack an airfield.
Base suppression.. Whole different kettle of fish all together....
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: fscottee on March 26, 2016, 04:12:06 PM
See rule #7
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: guncrasher on March 26, 2016, 04:29:30 PM
I was in beta earlier, I was having problems with low fps low on the ground, so i dove on a 109 that had just taken off after posting on 200 that I wanst gonna shoot. I went in front of him and pulled up and bamn was in the tower. I asked who shot me down and what was he in. apparently there was a ki84 behind me that I didnt know about.
I got a pm asking me if I was testing or fighting, I replied both. I found out then why i didnt hear the plane behind me. beta is for testing and learning. lots of players are gonna be surprised and complain about the flight model unless they fly a couple of hours in beta. flight model hasnt changed, but sounds and visual cues have changed. that's gonna surprised a majority of players.
semp
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Zoney on March 26, 2016, 04:43:21 PM
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: LCADolby on March 26, 2016, 07:35:51 PM
I'm actually surprised Mr Wilbur that you didn't see that my first de-ack pass was made prior to your aircraft on a runway. Why is the fact and truth modified and changed despite there being a clear film of actuality?
I am also surprised that no one has applauded testing of shooting at the AAA, the dirty job that someone has to do. Every gun at every field type and town needs to be checked, it's not all about the gameplay in a beta. The negativity pointed in that direction is unfounded. The negativity and post count is directly proportional to the stupid on this matter. If I can inject the delusion an inability for some to look facts directly in the face into that equation, I may have cracked the BBS mathematically. It would be a revolution :neener:
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: NatCigg on March 26, 2016, 09:47:56 PM
where is the chin stroke emoicon when you need it. :old:
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: icepac on March 27, 2016, 07:58:38 AM
Fresh new game.
Same old players using the same stale gameplay.
Try mixing it up a bit and you will have more fun.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Bruv119 on March 27, 2016, 08:03:38 AM
I'm guessing Scottee is a Bish? :devil
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: fscottee on March 27, 2016, 09:09:12 AM
See rule #7
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: The Fugitive on March 27, 2016, 09:21:37 AM
I read the original statement as a 'you must be cheating' veil.
As far as Wilburs comment, I logged into the Beta just as you were logging off Dolby and what I saw were 3 players bouncing 2 players lifting off. I was the 4th one into that area and I asked on 200 for guns cold so I could get close to other aircraft to test graphics. LOL needless to say they were not in the mood to be kind and I guess did not know it was my first run that night.
IMO it should be used as a test area and people should try to help in that respect. Vulching off the field is helping no one IMO
If you néed someone to test with or on.... let me know. Friday evening I am open to help in AH III. You can fly close , shoot me down or whatever to get a feel for AH III.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Vinkman on March 31, 2016, 03:40:27 PM
Well, that helped. Loads. If a guy can't stand getting vulched in the beta he sure as Hades won't take it well in the main. Better to help them get over it than kid glove `em til someone forgets to and they rage quit then, instead.
sportsmanship is dead in here. That Mashies point. "Kid glove 'em" proves you don't understand the concept. :salute
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on March 31, 2016, 04:32:53 PM
In one concept you are introducing the reality of the game to a new player or reinforcing it in a vet. In the other you are applying the false code of honor in a dueling setting (which is broken just as often in the DA, believe it or not). If you manage to give a false set of expectations to a player they will more likely become a whiner then rage quit. That's why you have a percentage of the population saying things like 'It never used to be like this!' or 'When did THIS start to happen?' It was always there, they just were either protected from it or missed it. ;)
Anything that isn't breaking TOS is allowed (except for the 'honor' crowd that holds to an artificial code).
Whether of not someone gets personal satisfaction from vulching a player they don't even know is another thing, on top of that. :)
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Zacherof on April 04, 2016, 10:13:23 AM
That's not necessarily true. There have been exceptions.
Management reserves the right to do so when a player finds an unanticipated way to disrupt the game - actually disrupt it, for all players involved (bombing HQ isn't a valid example since the results of such are, by game design, specifically what they are). Give me an example of vulching earning an eject/ban (outside of an event - and to be honest - inside one). Give an example of HOing earning the same or of ramming.
There are a lot of things some players will claim 'hurts the game/community' just because they want to believe so that have been part of the game from day one and continue to be. They cannot be practically coded away and, frankly, shouldn't. If a player wants to adhere to a code or behavior above and beyond the design of the game then that is that player's option (and more power to him). If it inspires another player to follow suit then that's hunky-dory, as well. When someone starts to try to form a religion around it and begins to proselytize to the masses .... well ....
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on April 04, 2016, 11:09:39 AM
Wait .... I did think of one player behavioral issue that required coding: Killshooter. :D
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Vinkman on April 04, 2016, 04:32:54 PM
In one concept you are introducing the reality of the game to a new player or reinforcing it in a vet. In the other you are applying the false code of honor in a dueling setting (which is broken just as often in the DA, believe it or not). If you manage to give a false set of expectations to a player they will more likely become a whiner then rage quit. That's why you have a percentage of the population saying things like 'It never used to be like this!' or 'When did THIS start to happen?' It was always there, they just were either protected from it or missed it. ;)
Anything that isn't breaking TOS is allowed (except for the 'honor' crowd that holds to an artificial code).
Whether of not someone gets personal satisfaction from vulching a player they don't even know is another thing, on top of that. :)
There are no rules. Everyone knows that. Pretending your individual situation is governed by a set of rules or lack there of is silly, and in knowing such, your behavior is no more protected by a lack of rules than condemned bytheir pretend existence.
Your defense of your behavior is: 1) "unsportsman like behavior is something you'd better get used to" 2) mercilessly pounding a dissadvantaged player into the ground is not unsportsmanlike in AH because Sportsmanship by definition can't exist in this game because it's an actual war. (silly at best) 3) the best way to teach your 12 year old the game of Football is to take him to a Bronco's practice, put pads on him, hand him the ball and tell him to try to run past Von Miller. repeatedly. Because he should never expect mercy or sprotsmanship in a football game. Is this situation the best way for anyone to learn the game? Answer: No
The episode as describe would make most people quit. If you think that's a learning session for anyone, you're part of the problem. but forget the quitter for a moment. What possible enjoyment do you get out of such a situation? Where those fun, challenging fights? encounters in AH are not analogies for life lessons. each is its own serarate encounter that is either fun for you, and your opponent or not. You have the power to control that outcome. You own the consequences of the outcome of your choices. Choose wisely. :salute
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on April 04, 2016, 04:50:18 PM
Don't project. We're not talking about my behavior. I didn't say it was an 'actual war.' The 'taking a 12 yr old to a Broncos practice' was a rather extreme and silly attempt at a correlation. None of that was my defense of anyone's behavior.
If you see a new player having a difficult time - give that player practical advice (in the case of getting vulched, explain that reupping under a vulcher ain't the answer). Better yet, if it bothers you and you think a better example may save the loss of a player - be said example. Sacrifice your time and take the new player to the TA. If it's not a new player, certainly they understand reupping under a vulcher is a challenge. Perhaps they're trying to prove they can. *ShruG*
This will happen again. The sky probably ain't gonna fall. :D :cheers:
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Masherbrum on April 04, 2016, 09:47:09 PM
Actually, Vinkman was spot on.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: TequilaChaser on April 05, 2016, 12:32:13 AM
This reply is for all of you who have posted that you have downloaded the Alpha(back then) or the Beta(since went beta) and don't know what to do or test/look for!
Every single Alpha patch and Beta patch released has always had posted items that HTC needs the volunteer testers try and do, find etc....
After hitech and company gets enough reports back, and they have fixed found bugs and added stuff, etc.....
Then HTC release the next patch with a list of fixed bugs, graphics issues, etc...and include a new check list of things to do!
I'm surprised no one has yet to mention this
TC
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: nooby52 on April 05, 2016, 06:59:21 AM
Back to the OP: some folk just need to get a thicker skin. If that'd been me on the losing end in that particular scenario (and it usually is) I'd have congratulated the superior pilot, then asked for some tips/ lessons instead of packing up my toys and going home. Even if I though I was being unfairly taken advantage of. Whels never took undue advantage of me, but he used to whip my butt mercilessly and regularly because I kept seeking him out for more. I learned a lot that way, and he got some good points/ perks because he was usually flying a dog and I was always flying the hottest thing I could afford, perk-wise.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on April 05, 2016, 07:38:28 AM
Back to the OP: some folk just need to get a thicker skin. If that'd been me on the losing end in that particular scenario (and it usually is) I'd have congratulated the superior pilot, then asked for some tips/ lessons instead of packing up my toys and going home. Even if I though I was being unfairly taken advantage of. Whels never took undue advantage of me, but he used to whip my butt mercilessly and regularly because I kept seeking him out for more. I learned a lot that way, and he got some good points/ perks because he was usually flying a dog and I was always flying the hottest thing I could afford, perk-wise.
Now this is spot on. :aok
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: puller on April 05, 2016, 08:58:41 AM
Back to the OP: some folk just need to get a thicker skin. If that'd been me on the losing end in that particular scenario (and it usually is) I'd have congratulated the superior pilot, then asked for some tips/ lessons instead of packing up my toys and going home. Even if I though I was being unfairly taken advantage of. Whels never took undue advantage of me, but he used to whip my butt mercilessly and regularly because I kept seeking him out for more. I learned a lot that way, and he got some good points/ perks because he was usually flying a dog and I was always flying the hottest thing I could afford, perk-wise.
If you do come across someone that really owns you...and you keep going back for more...that is like on-the-job-training....it works wonders and is how I learned when I first started years ago...
I think it was last year sometime Huklebry and I went into a custom arena...after I talked a ton of crap to him...and just dueling eachother for a couple of hours made a world of difference in my flying...and we walked away friends...
Cmex and I have almost been in the same squad since I started in '05...there was a time around '09 or 2010 that we weren't...I would consistently run into him...go poof...and go back for more...getting better every time....
If you don't have the mental capability to take a bad situation and turn it into a learning experience....it doesn't matter if it's a game or if it's a real life situation...you have serious problems...
Taking your ball and going home because you can't overcome adversity is a problem...and it is becoming more widespread as time goes by...
I watch people rage quit this game almost every time I play...I got to play for the first time since frame 3 of March's FSO Sunday night for about 5 hours and saw people rage quitting on the regular... :rofl :rofl :rofl
Like I said...if you can't handle adversity...you don't stand a chance...in this game or in real life.... :aok
I guess I should add that if your a retired old man...then the handling real life adversity doesn't effect you as you have either already succeeded or failed at whatever it was that you done with your life... :noid
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Kanth on April 05, 2016, 09:17:52 AM
good post.
Also learn when you are having a bad night and step away from the game and do something that's more inline with how you are feeling. It's not going to get better if you just keep going back at that point :ahand
you need to be in a reasonable frame of mind to learn from your mistakes.
If you don't have the mental capability to take a bad situation and turn it into a learning experience....it doesn't matter if it's a game or if it's a real life situation...you have serious problems...
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Vinkman on April 05, 2016, 09:42:33 AM
When he made up what I was doing and why or something else along the way? :huh
I addressed you because you provided an argument for the defence of persons in the encounter. I used "you" as a third person pronoun for the preson in the encounter that you (Arlo) were defending. Not because Arlo was in the encounter. But you knew that already. :salute
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on April 05, 2016, 09:56:45 AM
I addressed you because you provided an argument for the defence of persons in the encounter. I used "you" as a third person pronoun for the preson in the encounter that you (Arlo) were defending. Not because Arlo was in the encounter. But you knew that already. :salute
"Your defense of your behavior" is not third person but I'll let ya slide. ;)
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Vinkman on April 05, 2016, 10:00:27 AM
"Your defense of your behavior" is not third person but I'll let ya slide. ;)
thatnks! it's exhausting to keep this all straight. ;)
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Arlo on April 05, 2016, 10:12:33 AM
A recap of my point, to anyone with an investment in this thread, is that there has always been merciless vulching. There will always be merciless vulching. It will happen in any arena and in AHII or Beta AHIII. It will happen for numerous reasons (player's an a-hole, player's drunk, the vulchee volunteered for it, etc.). If you are witness to it and it disturbs you, especially if it's a case of 3+ against 1, there's a better way to address it than a thread on the AHBB. If you're on the advantaged side, switch and join the vulchee. Talk to said vulchee and see if he's just re-upping to get vulched out of some odd frustration. Heck, he may be a squadie of the vulcher (which leads to a whole new subject not worth talking about).
Basically ..... help the disadvantaged (especially if you think it'll lead to a rage-quit situation). And explaining things to a new guy helps in the skin thickening process.
Title: Re: An odd encounter leads to a profound question
Post by: Ramesis on April 05, 2016, 03:19:44 PM
Imho... its a game :banana: For those who take it greater than a game, get a life :old: Ramesis/Osiris