Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ccvi on August 21, 2018, 04:42:11 PM
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Sucks as bad as the full dar. Real-time updates, no need to spot anything. Just be within 6k.
Options like "fly low to disable icon", and activities like "check 6 often" have been taken out of the game. Planes that don't show an icon appear on dar by just being nearby, looking outside of the window is no longer neccessary. Map shows everything in realtime.
Why not go all the way and make it look like this?
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander:_Privateer#/media/File:WC_Privateer_screenshot_cockpit.PNG)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Arcelite_through_vipers.jpg)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_TIE_Fighter#/media/File:Swtiefighter001.png)
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Sucks as bad as the full dar. Real-time updates, no need to spot anything. Just be within 6k.
Options like "fly low to disable icon", and activities like "check 6 often" have been taken out of the game. Planes that don't show an icon appear on dar by just being nearby, looking outside of the window is no longer neccessary. Map shows everything in realtime.
Why not go all the way and make it look like this?
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander:_Privateer#/media/File:WC_Privateer_screenshot_cockpit.PNG)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Arcelite_through_vipers.jpg)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_TIE_Fighter#/media/File:Swtiefighter001.png)
We could just throw a net over our plane and become invisible like other games.
How about just fight.... or is fighting the problem.
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Sucks as bad as the full dar. Real-time updates, no need to spot anything. Just be within 6k.
Options like "fly low to disable icon", and activities like "check 6 often" have been taken out of the game. Planes that don't show an icon appear on dar by just being nearby, looking outside of the window is no longer neccessary. Map shows everything in realtime.
Why not go all the way and make it look like this?
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander:_Privateer#/media/File:WC_Privateer_screenshot_cockpit.PNG)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Arcelite_through_vipers.jpg)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_TIE_Fighter#/media/File:Swtiefighter001.png)
I should have known this would be the reaction to ANY change.
IT IS NOT RADAR. IT IS AN INFORMATION SYSTEM.
"Woodbine Red Leader, bandits, thirty plus. Vector zero nine zero to intercept." - Radar Controller
"Woodbine Red Leader, I've got bandits! Thirty FWs ten miles east of Bumville at twenty thousand." - Fighter Pilot
"Coastwatch One, bandits, thirty plus. Heading 260, twenty thousand." - Ground Observer
We could just throw a net over our plane and become invisible like other games.
How about just fight.... or is fighting the problem.
Fighting is the problem. Which is odd coming from ccvi since he will stand in there and swing the bat.
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IT IS NOT RADAR. IT IS AN INFORMATION SYSTEM.
HiTech himself said it's called radar (it's just not intended to simulate radar). It doesn't matter what it is. If the official term is radar, I'll call it radar, too.
If you prefer to call it differently than what the one single authority calls it, that's your choice.
"Woodbine Red Leader, bandits, thirty plus. Vector zero nine zero to intercept." - Radar Controller
"Woodbine Red Leader, I've got bandits! Thirty FWs ten miles east of Bumville at twenty thousand." - Fighter Pilot
"Coastwatch One, bandits, thirty plus. Heading 260, twenty thousand." - Ground Observer
That would be perfectly reasonable. As chat message (I think this was done somewhere, many ages ago, though probably not online), or more modern'ish as voice transmissions. Those differ from the "radar" (call it what you want) in that those don't give instantaneous low-level information. Information that cannot be used for the final approach (of final escape). The all-seeing edition and the current one show both one's self and the enemy with zero delay, and can be used as targetting computer, intercept/evasive maneuver planning down to the lowest level just above finally aiming the guns. Add altitude and 95% of the game can be played on the clipboard, like Elite can be played by looking at its radar. More like an RC plane, because the moving-map GPS we have doesn't rotate track up. But I fear track-up auto-center will be the next feature of the map (the only thing that protects as from that madness is that 1024x1024 may be a bit lowish resolution to look nice when rotated).
The 0-delay map removes things that need to be done (looking around). It removes alternative paths that can be taken (trying to stay out of harms way). It makes the uneventful flight more boring, and makes the overall game more boring by allowing fewer possible play styles.
Fighting is the problem. Which is odd coming from ccvi since he will stand in there and swing the bat.
Only if there is a reason to. I don't like to fight, or to kill. But I will if I have to, because we're at war. I understand that your point of view differs on this. You like to kill of fight just because.
If all the game had was a furball, I don't think I would still be here. No, I'm pretty sure I would never have gotten here. The description of a somewhat complex war, to be fought with tools that are somewhat hard to control sounded interesting (somewhat complex/hard from the point of view back then). Had the description been "counterstrike with planes", that would under no circumstances haven been sufficient to sign up for a monthly payment. A little CS-style furball doesn't require many players, and just hooking up some computers with friends was something that was interesting in the decade before finding AH, and it didn't come with a montly fee.
If something comes at a higher cost than alternatives, it has to offer something that doesn't exist elsewhere. Furball exists elswhere. Persistent worlds exist elsewhere. A "persistent furball" doesn't seem to make any kind of sense. A slim chance to win $500 doesn't look attractive either (there's enough offerings to drop your email here to win... and such sites often look more legit than the https-less hitechcreations.com). It needs to be something unique, that can't be had elsewhere. Because "elsewhere" intends to serve the majority to cover basically unlimited development efforts, whatever is here cannot just be unique, but will likely need to target an unusual audience (if it would be a normal audience, it would have already been served well by the bigger fish). Trying to compete with something usual, at lowish development costs, for a higher price than others - doomed.
It needs to be exotic. Extraordinary. An unusual kind of fun. It needs to be large-scale, cannot replicate at home. The individual fight is: Meaningless.
(Losing players within 10 minutes is probably a different issue - it's probably completely wrong expectations. What's wrong? The description, or the game?)
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HiTech himself said it's called radar (it's just not intended to simulate radar). It doesn't matter what it is. If the official term is radar, I'll call it radar, too.
If you prefer to call it differently than what the one single authority calls it, that's your choice.
We simply call it radar, we use our "radar" as a method to display all aircraft intelligence. We do not in any way attempt to model real radar.
HITech
It is NOT RADAR. I repeat, it is NOT RADAR. It is an information system. An INTELLIGENCE network. Visual, radar, audible, etc. Can it be modified to better simulate a non-real-time system? Of course. And that may be next.
That would be perfectly reasonable. As chat message (I think this was done somewhere, many ages ago, though probably not online), or more modern'ish as voice transmissions. Those differ from the "radar" (call it what you want) in that those don't give instantaneous low-level information.
It is a gaming concession, just like autopilots, combat trim, icons, etc. etc. etc.
Only if there is a reason to. I don't like to fight, or to kill. But I will if I have to, because we're at war. I understand that your point of view differs on this. You like to kill of fight just because.
This is a combat game. If combat is not in one's wheelhouse then perhaps Monopoly or Chutes and Ladders would be more appealing, I dunno.
(Losing players within 10 minutes is probably a different issue - it's probably completely wrong expectations. What's wrong? The description, or the game?)
It could be a bit of both. :salute
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Sucks as bad as the full dar. Real-time updates, no need to spot anything. Just be within 6k.
Options like "fly low to disable icon", and activities like "check 6 often" have been taken out of the game. Planes that don't show an icon appear on dar by just being nearby, looking outside of the window is no longer neccessary. Map shows everything in realtime.
Another non-starter for bomber pilots imo. At best it means we have to up further back so we won't be on partial climbout when we hit the front lines and get IDed for what we are (and pounced on; and the same bomber hunters who pounced when full dar was enabled will now just patrol at high alt along those aforementioned front lines).
That's more time out of my life gone for a game that just got more arcad-y again.
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Another non-starter for bomber pilots imo. At best it means we have to up further back so we won't be on partial climbout when we hit the front lines and get IDed for what we are (and pounced on; and the same bomber hunters who pounced when full dar was enabled will now just patrol at high alt along those aforementioned front lines).
That's more time out of my life gone for a game that just got more arcad-y again.
Look at the bright side: you'll be safe from me because I'm not going to climb to 30K to chase you.
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That would be perfectly reasonable. As chat message (I think this was done somewhere, many ages ago, though probably not online), or more modern'ish as voice transmissions. Those differ from the "radar" (call it what you want) in that those don't give instantaneous low-level information.
The arena settings permit a radar update delay. The AvA staff use this occasionally (frequently?). Should be possible to do so in the MA as well. Put in a 30-second delay, or whatever, and you'll still get an idea where the enemas are, but not exactly where.
- oldman
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Another non-starter for bomber pilots imo. At best it means we have to up further back so we won't be on partial climbout when we hit the front lines and get IDed for what we are (and pounced on; and the same bomber hunters who pounced when full dar was enabled will now just patrol at high alt along those aforementioned front lines).
That's more time out of my life gone for a game that just got more arcad-y again.
You can always get fighter cover.
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You can always get fighter cover.
What and use TEAMWAORK in an MMO????? Have you been out in the sun to long today?
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Congrats to Bishops for running that high-alt mission to the ack factory tonight. It was a most excellent demonstration of the new radar setting test. I saw the DAR bar, flew towards it, and, once I was in visual range, the enema icons appeared on the map. Very authentic, I thought - visual confirmation of altitude and position.
It is still more difficult to find a fight than it was with the all-on radar setting, but I think this should please the war-winner crowd while improving things for the furballers.
- oldman
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What happens when the poor goon pilot is trying to fly in troops?
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What happens when the poor goon pilot is trying to fly in troops?
(http://explorenorth.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/20170712-7156.jpg)
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I don't think beoching about the recent patch's radar settings, just 2 hours and 33 minutes after the release is quantifiable, to come to the boards and post a thread stating that
I don't like to fight or kill your opponent but you will if you have to because we're at war
That bold part is just damn silly.... Is like saying, if you leave me alone I will leave you alone and go our separate ways...
People know this already but if you played a game/games long enough and alot you will surely burn yourself out at some point... Taking a small break every little bit will help you keep from burning completely away
As NoBaddy (NB) would always tell me, stop looking through Rose colored glasses at the past and focus on the present moment and find your fun
I could post a long list of quotes but nothing new under the sun sums it up good enough....
Answer me this: do you honestly think 2 hrs 33 min.s is sufficient enough amount of time to have downloaded the latest patch installed it then played online enough to get any decent amount of results of game play to come to the boards and post a complaint thread?
Give HTC a chance to breathe and the community a chance to download and try the new patch out for at least through 1 week.....before pee'ing in HTC's corn flakes... doing so as fast as you did is just beoching to be beoching and nothing else
That's my view of this thread ... YMMV
TC
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Congrats to Bishops for running that high-alt mission to the ack factory tonight. It was a most excellent demonstration of the new radar setting test. I saw the DAR bar, flew towards it, and, once I was in visual range, the enema icons appeared on the map. Very authentic, I thought - visual confirmation of altitude and position.
It is still more difficult to find a fight than it was with the all-on radar setting, but I think this should please the war-winner crowd while improving things for the furballers.
- oldman
The war win crowd want to sneak around with near offline invulnerability and only the illusion of MA danger.
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You can always get fighter cover.
That almost never happens.
Only the rooks, very occasionally, will fly fighter cover for me. The others don't and I don't blame them. There are funner things to do.
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The war win crowd want to sneak around with near offline invulnerability and only the illusion of MA danger.
:rofl
That makes a lot of sense!
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Of the new radar changes I like this one the best so far. If it were me I think I would try it on a 1 or two minute delay. It would allow people to find the fight without giving them real time enemy information within 6000 yards of themselves.
Wiley.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Sucks as bad as the full dar. Real-time updates, no need to spot anything. Just be within 6k.
Options like "fly low to disable icon", and activities like "check 6 often" have been taken out of the game. Planes that don't show an icon appear on dar by just being nearby, looking outside of the window is no longer neccessary. Map shows everything in realtime.
Why not go all the way and make it look like this?
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander:_Privateer#/media/File:WC_Privateer_screenshot_cockpit.PNG)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Arcelite_through_vipers.jpg)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_TIE_Fighter#/media/File:Swtiefighter001.png)
hold on ..
I don't have e a problem with what I just read if Dale has implemented this as the new radar system 1 bit!
You see situational awareness is absolutely critical in real life. Now bear with me here please.
People in world war 2 were pounded with situational awareness training. Nothing that OP has written about can be seen as something that takes away from the game. Your regular player would now have the same situational awareness as someone would in real life because they were trained to spot the enemy. If you are not using VR, you have to use a hat switch to look around or use a keypad right? This new system only takes away a very real element the games used to have which was stealth.
Stealth was very overpowered but so was the effect of dropping an HQ with 1 set of lancs. I ha e always had a problem with changes that were made when it was obvious other changes needed to be made as well.
So adapt, overcome, and pull up the clipboard if use lose visual on the target and establish contact again haha :bolt:
+1 to HTC if this is the result of the test. But m3's should never show on dar or as GV dar ...
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This would mean a whole lot unless coming from a guy that DOES NOT HAVE A PLAYING SUBSCRIPTION.
You must be new. I have played since 1999 and had a subscription since about 2001. I have been on the boards since 2002.
My home was flooded by the 51.88 inches (it rained for 1 1/2 days after that official gauge broke) of rain here during hurricane Harvey. So I have not flown since then. We have been in our RV while our home is rebuilt. I have pulled my machine and gear from storage and will be back soon. I have never dropped my subscription.
Simply ask around... a few folks know my P-38j.
:devil
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We could just throw a net over our plane and become invisible like other games.
How about just fight.... or is fighting the problem.
Shuffler why has it always been so hard for you to accept that certain elements to the MA require a window of avoiding the fight? I get that players abuse it way more than use it the right way but had the Japs at pearl not had a spook in the tree they would have been spotted and not mistaken for a flight of B-17's ;)
Element of surprise is a tactic. You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater just because he takes a dump once in awhile during his bath...
Go back to the DA and stay there long enough to where people start showing up again so you can have the experience you want whenever you want it again someday :x :cheers:
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Shuffler why has it always been so hard for you to accept that certain elements to the MA require a window of avoiding the fight? I get that players abuse it way more than use it the right way but had the Japs at pearl not had a spook in the tree they would have been spotted and not mistaken for a flight of B-17's ;)
Element of surprise is a tactic. You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater just because he takes a dump once in awhile during his bath...
Go back to the DA and stay there long enough to where people start showing up again so you can have the experience you want whenever you want it again someday :x :cheers:
LOL
I am here to compete in WWII aircraft. If you are not then you are definitely not who I am looking for. You can continue on to ATTACK those inanimate objects that give you your required excitement.
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LOL
I am here to compete in WWII aircraft. If you are not then you are definitely not who I am looking for. You can continue on to ATTACK those inanimate objects that give you your required excitement.
but I absolutely love a good fight! Especially after a 15 minute 130 autoclimb with a quarterbag and full ords load <3 nothing has come close to teaching me how to get better than players like you.
Or the zooneys and snailmans who will invest 15 minutes just to come at me from those perfect undefendable angles of attack which is a thing g of beauty. Only earning a base capture is more exciting than that for me.
And no one gives you better fights than the players who are smart, love what they do in the game, and don't shy away from a good fight!
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This would mean a whole lot unless coming from a guy that DOES NOT HAVE A PLAYING SUBSCRIPTION.
The man lost his home to a hurricane. Show some respect.
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Kiss even more players g'bye.
Bye Bye MrGeezer. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/ByeBye.gif) (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/TinyViolin.gif)
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The radar really doesn't show off anything that people wouldn't be calling out/things you can infer from the darbar anyway.
I dig it.
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This was my suggestion, I am glad everyone likes it ♥️🐈
I suggested this as a spotting thing instead of calling it radar (for the players here that calling it a true radar).
Tactical play is still here. Bomber missions are not at risk being spotted ect and the kicker is you can see now where the fight is! :old:
HAVE A BLAST
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I thoroughly like the new setting.
Litjan
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I kind of like it. :aok
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What happens when the poor goon pilot is trying to fly in troops?
(https://s22.postimg.cc/vcat8h5pd/toast.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Best setting so far IMHO.
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OMG its always entertaining to see what HTC does next. I expect a big red arrow above vehicles next :bolt:
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Congrats to Bishops for running that high-alt mission to the ack factory tonight. It was a most excellent demonstration of the new radar setting test. I saw the DAR bar, flew towards it, and, once I was in visual range, the enema icons appeared on the map. Very authentic, I thought - visual confirmation of altitude and position.
It is still more difficult to find a fight than it was with the all-on radar setting, but I think this should please the war-winner crowd while improving things for the furballers.
It was. Took OM and I almost 20 minutes to first get to altitude and then to catch the bastiges only to be buzzed by their escort Jugs and Mustangs.
I love this radar setting! If you are seen, you're on radar! IMHO, totally represents the Forward Air Control Ops Centre where live-time reports are fed into the situation table and then announced over the air from the observer corps. In today's world, that's AWACS.
(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/world-war-ii-19th-march-1940-fighter-command-station-ops-the-observer-picture-id79020186)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/8c/ac/dc8cac431c9596fb51f227c8a868e3e0.jpg)
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I love this radar setting! If you are seen, you're on radar!
Does the con need to be in someone elses icon range, or does it also work when the enemy is just within my icon range to put him on my dar?
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Luche let's say we are on the same team. Than whatever enemy is in my icon range you will be able to see on the map.
When you spot the enemy I believe it should show aswell
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Does the con need to be in someone elses icon range, or does it also work when the enemy is just within my icon range to put him on my dar?
It needs to be in range of any friendly to show on your dar, doesn't work to see enemy GVs, only aircraft.
It works in conjunction with the old radar as well, so when they get in the circle they show up too.
I am hoping it might get the people who ignore the "20 planes inbound for field 20" callout until it breaks dar take notice of what's coming if they show on their map when the discoverer gets close to them.
Wiley.
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Luche let's say we are on the same team. Than whatever enemy is in my icon range you will be able to see on the map.
When you spot the enemy I believe it should show aswell
Ah, just wanted to know if it stilkl places them on the map when i#m flying all alnone :)
But still, seems to me two fighters flying in enemy space don't really need to check their six anymore when flying with their maps open :headscratch:
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I like it; but agree that the delay would also be a nice addition. We still use all the same old tips and tricks to infer enemy positional information from the map, BUT newer players get that red icon affirmation that YES, there's bad guys over there.
The Dickweed heavy bomber group still got over top of our (rooks) strats last night and caused damage, so it's not like the new "radio-it-into-command" radar settings are stopping a bomber mission like the first radar setup of all players visible at all times..
I like it. Maybe a little more salt....
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Ah, just wanted to know if it stilkl places them on the map when i#m flying all alnone :)
But still, seems to me two fighters flying in enemy space don't really need to check their six anymore when flying with their maps open :headscratch:
That's why I think a delay would be a big improvement. If you were strat bomber hunting you wouldn't need to scan you'd just need to have your map open.
Wiley.
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Maybe a delay outside a working friendly radar ring.
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HiTech himself said it's called radar (it's just not intended to simulate radar). It doesn't matter what it is. If the official term is radar, I'll call it radar, too.
If you prefer to call it differently than what the one single authority calls it, that's your choice.
That would be perfectly reasonable. As chat message (I think this was done somewhere, many ages ago, though probably not online), or more modern'ish as voice transmissions. Those differ from the "radar" (call it what you want) in that those don't give instantaneous low-level information. Information that cannot be used for the final approach (of final escape). The all-seeing edition and the current one show both one's self and the enemy with zero delay, and can be used as targetting computer, intercept/evasive maneuver planning down to the lowest level just above finally aiming the guns. Add altitude and 95% of the game can be played on the clipboard, like Elite can be played by looking at its radar. More like an RC plane, because the moving-map GPS we have doesn't rotate track up. But I fear track-up auto-center will be the next feature of the map (the only thing that protects as from that madness is that 1024x1024 may be a bit lowish resolution to look nice when rotated).
The 0-delay map removes things that need to be done (looking around). It removes alternative paths that can be taken (trying to stay out of harms way). It makes the uneventful flight more boring, and makes the overall game more boring by allowing fewer possible play styles.
Only if there is a reason to. I don't like to fight, or to kill. But I will if I have to, because we're at war. I understand that your point of view differs on this. You like to kill of fight just because.
If all the game had was a furball, I don't think I would still be here. No, I'm pretty sure I would never have gotten here. The description of a somewhat complex war, to be fought with tools that are somewhat hard to control sounded interesting (somewhat complex/hard from the point of view back then). Had the description been "counterstrike with planes", that would under no circumstances haven been sufficient to sign up for a monthly payment. A little CS-style furball doesn't require many players, and just hooking up some computers with friends was something that was interesting in the decade before finding AH, and it didn't come with a montly fee.
If something comes at a higher cost than alternatives, it has to offer something that doesn't exist elsewhere. Furball exists elswhere. Persistent worlds exist elsewhere. A "persistent furball" doesn't seem to make any kind of sense. A slim chance to win $500 doesn't look attractive either (there's enough offerings to drop your email here to win... and such sites often look more legit than the https-less hitechcreations.com). It needs to be something unique, that can't be had elsewhere. Because "elsewhere" intends to serve the majority to cover basically unlimited development efforts, whatever is here cannot just be unique, but will likely need to target an unusual audience (if it would be a normal audience, it would have already been served well by the bigger fish). Trying to compete with something usual, at lowish development costs, for a higher price than others - doomed.
It needs to be exotic. Extraordinary. An unusual kind of fun. It needs to be large-scale, cannot replicate at home. The individual fight is: Meaningless.
(Losing players within 10 minutes is probably a different issue - it's probably completely wrong expectations. What's wrong? The description, or the game?)
what he say :headscratch:
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Maybe a delay outside a working friendly radar ring.
That would be the ideal. A fast moving plane could get halfway to the base if the timing was right. Not sure how possible it would be.
Wiley.
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That's why I think a delay would be a big improvement. If you were strat bomber hunting you wouldn't need to scan you'd just need to have your map open.
Wiley.
You would still need to have someone within iconrange to see the bombers on the map :uhoh
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Another non-starter for bomber pilots imo. At best it means we have to up further back so we won't be on partial climbout when we hit the front lines and get IDed for what we are (and pounced on; and the same bomber hunters who pounced when full dar was enabled will now just patrol at high alt along those aforementioned front lines).
That's more time out of my life gone for a game that just got more arcad-y again.
You mean people would perform milk runs like they did in real life?
Thats what I was hoping for
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What happens when the poor goon pilot is trying to fly in troops?
He better know what he is doing
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You would still need to have someone within iconrange to see the bombers on the map :uhoh
Yes. But let me walk you through a typical North American morning/afternoon strat bomber hunt.
The fighter guy looks at the map. He sees the bardar showing 3 enemy aircraft split between both of his country's fronts. He also sees a bardar in a sector somewhere between 1 and 3 sectors behind the front in enemy territory. Based on experience, he surmises that is likely to be a singleton bomber grabbing before it heads in to bomb his country's strats. So, he takes off in something with a ton of fuel and high alt performance. A late model P47 or a Ta152 are the two best tools for the job.
The fighter guy grabs to ludicrous alt (30k or so) as he watches the enemy bardar to see what it does. When the enemy bardar begins coming toward friendly territory, the fighter guy moves to intercept. Based on the friendly radar circles, the fighter guy can quite often get a pretty good idea where the bomber is in the sector because if the bomber isn't on dar, you know where he isn't. Heading toward the area the bomber is likely to be in, the fighter guy has to scan the sky to find the bomber, trying to be ahead of him and see him asap to begin jockeying for position to get the best pass on him.
With the radar setup that was in use last night, there's no need to scan. You could just patrol the area and watch your clipboard until the icon shows.
Wiley.
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With the radar setup that was in use last night, there's no need to scan. You could just patrol the area and watch your clipboard until the icon shows.
That assumes you fly close enough to the approaching bombers. Simply orbiting in a sector doesn't guarantee that.
- oldman
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That assumes you fly close enough to the approaching bombers. Simply orbiting in a sector doesn't guarantee that.
- oldman
Yes. But when you're hunting the bomber, unless it's a sector that is completely davoid of friendly radar, you've usually got a much smaller area to patrol. Many sectors are 3/4 covered by a friendly dar circle. If it's not flashing, you know that bomber is in the remaining 1/4 of the sector. That is NOT a large area to drag a 12,000 yard diameter circle of instant detection through.
Wiley.
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Yes. But let me walk you through a typical North American morning/afternoon strat bomber hunt.
The fighter guy looks at the map. He sees the bardar showing 3 enemy aircraft split between both of his country's fronts. He also sees a bardar in a sector somewhere between 1 and 3 sectors behind the front in enemy territory. Based on experience, he surmises that is likely to be a singleton bomber grabbing before it heads in to bomb his country's strats. So, he takes off in something with a ton of fuel and high alt performance. A late model P47 or a Ta152 are the two best tools for the job.
The fighter guy grabs to ludicrous alt (30k or so) as he watches the enemy bardar to see what it does. When the enemy bardar begins coming toward friendly territory, the fighter guy moves to intercept. Based on the friendly radar circles, the fighter guy can quite often get a pretty good idea where the bomber is in the sector because if the bomber isn't on dar, you know where he isn't. Heading toward the area the bomber is likely to be in, the fighter guy has to scan the sky to find the bomber, trying to be ahead of him and see him asap to begin jockeying for position to get the best pass on him.
With the radar setup that was in use last night, there's no need to scan. You could just patrol the area and watch your clipboard until the icon shows.
Wiley.
We'll pretty much EU prime time.
And I do not agree. The range of the pilot radar is 6k the same as the huge red icon that would float above the bombers head. I fail to see what has changed in this scenario unless you mean flying upside down to spot the bomber if it happens to be below you?
The bomber hunter would have upped regardless of this change to hunt the bomber.
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Yes. But when you're hunting the bomber, unless it's a sector that is completely davoid of friendly radar, you've usually got a much smaller area to patrol. Many sectors are 3/4 covered by a friendly dar circle. If it's not flashing, you know that bomber is in the remaining 1/4 of the sector. That is NOT a large area to drag a 12,000 yard diameter circle of instant detection through.
Wiley.
You still need to scan for dots. Dots show well before icons.
HiTech
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We'll pretty much EU prime time.
And I do not agree. The range of the pilot radar is 6k the same as the huge red icon that would float above the bombers head. I fail to see what has changed in this scenario unless you mean flying upside down to spot the bomber if it happens to be below you?
Well, that's the thing. You're generally scanning the most likely area for him to be. He isn't always exactly where you think he is. A fair bit of finding the guy is taking educated guesses. When you guess right it looks like magic. When you don't, you're quite often a ways out of position. If things go spectacularly wrong, it's possible to miss seeing the guy's icon if you're looking too hard in the wrong direction. With the dar the way it was last night, that would be much less of a concern.
You still need to scan for dots. Dots show well before icons.
HiTech
It's beneficial if you see him sooner, but it's not really needed. Seeing him at dot range is the ideal. 10,000 yards vs 6,000. But if you didn't see him against the background or whatever, 6,000 is still plenty of range to set up for him most of the time.
But if you're spending most of your time scanning from 12 to 3 o'clock and he happened to slip by at 5 o'clock low against a non-contrasting background 5000 yards behind you because you were a bit early, instead of you going further and further out of position until you realize you missed him, you get that dot on your clipboard showing him behind you and reverse. Possibly without ever having seen the dot or icon.
Wiley.
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Sorry I am really trying to understand what would be the difference. If you can't see the red icon but you can see it on the map there is something lacking in your sa. You still would go to the same spots and look for dots Vs the map and red icons. The dots for bombers are really easy to see.
Lets just say for me it's the same and I won't change the way I fly
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Sorry I am really trying to understand what would be the difference. If you can't see the red icon but you can see it on the map there is something lacking in your sa.
That is exactly my point. It closes a possible loophole in your SA. It provides 6,000 yard autodetect, where before you had to see the dot or icon.
Wiley.
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What the enemy thinks I do
(https://s33.postimg.cc/ao5ko6173/radarexpect.jpg)
What happens occasionally to stay on course
(https://s33.postimg.cc/5pi29n53z/radarreality.jpg)
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That is exactly my point. It closes a possible loophole in your SA. It provides 6,000 yard autodetect, where before you had to see the dot or icon.
Wiley.
I can see how it would affect the bombers SA but not the other way around. The bomber will be alerted if an enemy comes close while being in the sight. I also can see how it would affect someone flying out his SA ( no more getting killed by the one you did not see) I can see how it would affect ones SA in a fight since you can keep track of all enemies around you. However I still think this would change anything in this scenario for the average player. Sorry
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If your are flying using your CBM in a fight, you’re gonna crash and burn.
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I can see how it would affect the bombers SA but not the other way around. The bomber will be alerted if an enemy comes close while being in the sight. I also can see how it would affect someone flying out his SA ( no more getting killed by the one you did not see) I can see how it would affect ones SA in a fight since you can keep track of all enemies around you. However I still think this would change anything in this scenario for the average player. Sorry
Well, the "average player" doesn't generally do what I'm talking about, so you're correct on that.
So you're saying you see every single bandit that comes within icon range of your plane? How would you know if you missed a guy? You wouldn't have seen him.
If your are flying using your CBM in a fight, you’re gonna crash and burn.
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Weekend afternoons if there's no good fight, I do it all the time if the strat raiders are active.
Wiley.
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Weekend afternoons if there's no good fight, I do it all the time if the strat raiders are active.
do you pay attention to the fight you are in or do you stare at your CBM during that entire fight?
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I played mostly in a tank yesterday but the new enemy plane indicator<--since its not radar-works for me.
but HiTech you can't please everybody. must have been a hell of a program to work up for this to work right out of the box-so to speak.
there's 1 bird you killed with a stone is the off map planes-if one person go's and chases them and sees them all can see them.
maybe one thing CCVI missed this setting is still a TEST-not permanent yet.
or his gripe is his no vote type response to the new enemy plane visual aid(again not radar).
and I'm sure if you asked him he would probably vote for a previous test version of the RADAR test.
CCVI you are my countryman but you gonna have to make a compromise sooner or later, I don't think there are to many `configurations that HiTech can try with the RADAR- to me this currant(enemy plane visual aid will work for us)
:D
Radar
Radar is an object-detection system that uses radio waves to determine the range, angle, or velocity of objects. It can be used to detect aircraft, ships, spacecraft, guided missiles, motor vehicles, weather formations, and terrain
:D I looked that up^ ^ ^
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That assumes you fly close enough to the approaching bombers. Simply orbiting in a sector doesn't guarantee that.
- oldman
And that is the crux of the entire visible spotted aircraft appearing on the map, you gotta get close enough and within icon range for it to actually work. 6k. Not 16K like some people acting out what it's like.
And again, this maps EXACTLY like it did during WWII for the air control ops centre.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/8c/ac/dc8cac431c9596fb51f227c8a868e3e0.jpg)
And Hitech emulated it onto our maps (which is bloody brilliant if you ask me), and it adds a lot to the gameplay. Kind of how if a PBY was flying around spotting enemy fighters or forward recon aircraft (which did the EXACT same thing).
Aces High is a high-fidelity WWII air combat simulator. And now some are complaining it's ruining their ability to 'game' Aces High because this new feature on the notification map... (which is NOT radar) I'm confused. :headscratch:
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do you pay attention to the fight you are in or do you stare at your CBM during that entire fight?
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I'm not usually in a fight from wheels up to landing. When I'm cruising to/from the fight, I've just about always got the map up.
Wiley.
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I'm not usually in a fight from wheels up to landing. When I'm cruising to/from the fight, I've just about always got the map up.
Wiley.
apples and oranges.
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apples and oranges.
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Sorry, misread your original post as "in flight", nvm.
Wiley.
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no worries man
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Icon range 18000 ft = 36 sqr miles of visibility.
Dot range 40000 ft = 180 sqr miles of visibility.
Huge gain by looking looking for dots vs looking on radar.
HiTech
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Yes. But let me walk you through a typical North American morning/afternoon strat bomber hunt.
The fighter guy looks at the map. He sees the bardar showing 3 enemy aircraft split between both of his country's fronts. He also sees a bardar in a sector somewhere between 1 and 3 sectors behind the front in enemy territory. Based on experience, he surmises that is likely to be a singleton bomber grabbing before it heads in to bomb his country's strats. So, he takes off in something with a ton of fuel and high alt performance. A late model P47 or a Ta152 are the two best tools for the job.
The fighter guy grabs to ludicrous alt (30k or so) as he watches the enemy bardar to see what it does. When the enemy bardar begins coming toward friendly territory, the fighter guy moves to intercept. Based on the friendly radar circles, the fighter guy can quite often get a pretty good idea where the bomber is in the sector because if the bomber isn't on dar, you know where he isn't. Heading toward the area the bomber is likely to be in, the fighter guy has to scan the sky to find the bomber, trying to be ahead of him and see him asap to begin jockeying for position to get the best pass on him.
With the radar setup that was in use last night, there's no need to scan. You could just patrol the area and watch your clipboard until the icon shows.
Wiley.
After all that.... the bomber does the same thing. Just open map while in enemy territory and he can see fighters coming even though he is in enemy territory. Makes it hard to sneak up on a bomber.
So it goes both ways.... probably more so for the bomber as he is in enemy territory and still getting dar feedback.
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Icon range 18000 ft = 36 sqr miles of visibility.
Dot range 40000 ft = 180 sqr miles of visibility.
Huge gain by looking looking for dots vs looking on radar.
HiTech
+1
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Icon range 18000 ft = 36 sqr miles of visibility.
Dot range 40000 ft = 180 sqr miles of visibility.
Huge gain by looking looking for dots vs looking on radar.
HiTech
Sure, but I highly doubt the average person can track that entire 180 square miles in its entirety at all times, all alts. I'm not saying the radar would be a better solution than seeing the guy's dot. I'm saying it makes it easier by automatically flagging the bandit in a situation where he might slip by otherwise. It takes away the opportunity for human error that's there when you're scanning for dots.
Just speaking for myself, unless there's a good dark/light contrast between the bandit and the ground I'm over, a dot below me is near invisible. I'd say about 3/4 of the time I am only aware of a bandit below me when it comes into icon range. If they're against sky/haze, I see them just fine at dot distance.
But generally speaking, I am spending most of my time covering about a quarter to half the sky around me with the occasional check of the less likely areas in case I've guessed wrong on where the enemy is likely to be. This dar gives me a 6000 yard bubble that automatically alerts me to something close.
A delay on the guy showing on player-based dar would make that information quite a bit less powerful.
Wiley.
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Icon range 18000 ft = 36 sqr miles of visibility.
Dot range 40000 ft = 180 sqr miles of visibility.
Huge gain by looking looking for dots vs looking on radar.
HiTech
I did many high alt strat defenses at the old central strats. Knowing from darbar that I was probably lurking at dar circle choke points, the more ingenious tricked me by not going it at the usual 30k, but at a fairly low altitude. Even when coming within icon range, they managed to slip through because they were so very difficult to spot against the ground - in particular when i also had to watch the ultra high altitude range.
And for the usual suspects - that wasn't simply 'combat avoidance', this IS a form of combat. They knew their 1.5 hour mission was screwed if I spotted them too early.
We were simply battling each other with wits, skill & experience long before any trigger was pressed. And that's why it's different from "just fly offline if you don't want to engage".
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:aok DUTCH,nice IDEA :rock I really liked this settup. It was A WORKABLE COMPROMISE.....THAT being said, I only had ONE issue.Well dont know what else to call it, but this happened and COULD BE A future issue. :uhoh Below RADAR was sort of axed...it MAY HAVE BEEN just the way it happened and APPEARED to be AXED. Case in point...had an NOE raid inbound on a base where I was in tower. We had 2 guys in sector flying from base. They were about 10 k, all a sudden I hear one guy say. Look at those 3 ICONS that just showed up. Must be NOE because we flew right over them. THEY WERE NOT looking for, or AWARE of their presence until in ICON RANGE. Maybe an under RADAR/BARDAR altitude delay or altered DAR BAR/ Icon distance? I know NOE is busted like this quite often, be it unknown CVS or happenstance...AND NOT A GRIPE...just trying to head off POSSIBLE complaints BEFORE they show up. I honestly have NO ISSUE...I like this-at least for now...COULD CHANGE, but I havent seen it yet! Nice thinking out of the box :salute
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The war win crowd want to sneak around with near offline invulnerability and only the illusion of MA danger.
Jeez Caldera... I thought u were smarter than that statement :salute
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We simply call it radar, we use our "radar" as a method to display all aircraft intelligence. We do not in any way attempt to model real radar.
HITech
Emphasis by me. He calls it radar, and so should we.
I don't care what it is, just what effect it has on my own personal level of fun. (And of course I prefer a variant of radar that prefers the knight play style over the bish or rook play style. because we're at war. kind of a meta-game.)
I played mostly in a tank yesterday but the new enemy plane indicator<--since its not radar-works for me.
but HiTech you can't please everybody. must have been a hell of a program to work up for this to work right out of the box-so to speak.
there's 1 bird you killed with a stone is the off map planes-if one person go's and chases them and sees them all can see them.
maybe one thing CCVI missed this setting is still a TEST-not permanent yet.
or his gripe is his no vote type response to the new enemy plane visual aid(again not radar).
and I'm sure if you asked him he would probably vote for a previous test version of the RADAR test.
CCVI you are my countryman but you gonna have to make a compromise sooner or later, I don't think there are to many `configurations that HiTech can try with the RADAR- to me this currant(enemy plane visual aid will work for us)
I am aware that it is a test. We have discussed the prior tests in detail, and its worth discussing this one, too. There was no thread yet, so I opened one. Needs a catchy subject and some harsh words to pull in views and replies.
For the subject itself, there's two bad things with it. Both already existed in the all-seeing edition, so there isn't much sense in delaying a discussion.
a) Its SA-enhancing, up the point where it replaces the windows. It teaches to look at the map, not outside. I've read the posts here, and I think someone even claimed that its a good thing to "simulate" the SA of the real pilot. I can only disagree on that. There's no need to simulate something that the player can do reasonably well within the simulated world. Likewise, the HUD should show gees (because the plane can be flown by one's rear), but not speed. The human being has no sensory input for that, so the player shouldn't need it either. How about leveling up the simulated pilot so his SA gets better over time?
The simulated world outside looks beautiful (slowly getting used to it). It should be looked at. All the time. Scanned for aircraft. Failing to do so can you get killed. In here, and in reality, even in times of peace. This variant of radar will teach future generations (and over time everyone having been here for too long, too) to look at the map. All the time. Not outside. That's a horrible way to play the game. Look outside, enjoy the scenery at least, if there's no aircraft nearby. Stay alert. The localized dar makes a boring flight even more boring.
b) It's providing information that otherwise wouldn't be there (easily). SA is enhanced beyond what icons can do. It doesn't make the player aware of everything showing an icon, but of everything nearby, even if it wouldn't show an icon when looked at, and even if it is insanely hard to spot (say, goon parked between trees). This takes away options. Less options, less variety of activities, less reason to play. A furball may be fun once in a while (even for no reason - there, a part-time agreement with the furball-only crowd), but it's not sufficient for long-term motivation. More different things to do, more reasons to play. Also nice for a more broad target audience.
If I could have the radar/map my way, there would be no GPS (no own icon), updates were delayed significantly (5min+), and only available as voice transmissions. They might even include a little bit of altitude information. The clipboard would just show a static map. But I am aware that I can't have that. (Before anyone suggests it, I could print the map and never open the clipboard. But we're at war, and that would cause quite a disadvantage.)
I didn't see any of the issues with regards to bombers discussed in this thread. I was thinking that bombers are big enough to spot beyond icon range anyway. Also they don't appear out of nowhere when bomber-hunting, so there the localized dar didn't seem to have much of an effect. Lusche's report that even he overlooked bombers passing low within icon range makes me think though.
From the bomber point of view, an artificial SA enhancement for bombers could to be somewhat justified. Bombers had multiple crew members, and player only has two eyes (most of us, anyway). But then that additional SA enhancement is already provided by external view. The localized radar on the map doesn't add much for bombers, nor is it very useful.
From the description of how its working I assume that the current edition is relatively simple compared to anything that would avoid problem category b). Each front end probably has all aircraft positions, and no additional data beyond the positions is needed to get the current display.
A strategy to avoid b) could be to only show on the map when an icon would be visible. That would require to compute the terrain for every enemy in range of a friendly. That's probably more work. Another strategy could be to display on the map only if an icon has been shown to someone, which needs additional data to be transmitted. And that's probably even a lot more work. That's probably the reason why it is the way it is for the quick short term test.
For strategies to avoid a) it seems like there's only the delay, or randomness (unless GPS is taken away). If the delay option is already there, why not apply it? I'm not exactly show how it works, does it just create more rare but still live updates, or does it freeze the data at one point in time, and displays it later?
Reduced heading information would be nice, too. But with a delay the heading information is mostly useless anyway. Still it would be nice to see prior track not instantaneous heading of the snapshot (where it came from, not where it is going).
(uh oh, the preview looks lengthy. sorry, but I'll post anyway. feel free to not read if its too much.)
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You mean people would perform milk runs like they did in real life?
Thats what I was hoping for
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What's your in-game name? Mine's osmium, ex-havermyr. Ask around if you don't currently play and don't know me: I never milk run. I always take risks to achieve an objective (and don't tell me flying at 30k to hit a distant strat isn't risky). :P
I want what I do to help my team, and with the latest dar experiment at best it will take longer to achieve the same risk/reward as before; at worst, I'll be on people's dar as a bomber several sectors before I get to target. I appreciate HT's attempts to bring new players into the game and will stick it out long enough to see what finally happens. But so far this one does not work for me.
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What's your in-game name? Mine's osmium, ex-havermyr. Ask around if you don't currently play and don't know me: I never milk run. I always take risks to achieve an objective (and don't tell me flying at 30k to hit a distant strat isn't risky). :P
I want what I do to help my team, and with the latest dar experiment at best it will take longer to achieve the same risk/reward as before; at worst, I'll be on people's dar as a bomber several sectors before I get to target. I appreciate HT's attempts to bring new players into the game and will stick it out long enough to see what finally happens. But so far this one does not work for me.
I've run across you enough over the years, I'm a bit unclear what you think is going to change for you? For you to show up under this system, you need to be within icon range of the enemy. In the past, at that point they've called you out on country usually, and anyone who's interested will be headed for you.
What's the difference between that and a dot on the map?
Wiley.
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Map icon rate updates: BTW - it's an easy-peasy fix as there is a radar update rate setting where it sets the delay on how often the map updates.
In the AVA (Jaeger can correct me on this) our default update rate is 30 seconds.
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What's your in-game name? Mine's osmium, ex-havermyr. Ask around if you don't currently play and don't know me: I never milk run. I always take risks to achieve an objective (and don't tell me flying at 30k to hit a distant strat isn't risky). :P
I want what I do to help my team, and with the latest dar experiment at best it will take longer to achieve the same risk/reward as before; at worst, I'll be on people's dar as a bomber several sectors before I get to target. I appreciate HT's attempts to bring new players into the game and will stick it out long enough to see what finally happens. But so far this one does not work for me.
War is hell.... even in a game. :D
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I can live with these settings and would vote to keep them. I think it encourages teamwork...scouting.. and it has a basis in realism... we all remember those big maps back at the HQ and the cute girls moving those models about with the big sticks.
I do have a question. what is the floor of the dotdar? I still like to do NOE once in a while.
Todd
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Icon range 18000 ft = 36 sqr miles of visibility.
Dot range 40000 ft = 180 sqr miles of visibility.
Huge gain by looking looking for dots vs looking on radar.
HiTech
What is the current floor of the dar? I love to be on the deck.
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What's your in-game name? Mine's osmium, ex-havermyr. Ask around if you don't currently play and don't know me: I never milk run. I always take risks to achieve an objective (and don't tell me flying at 30k to hit a distant strat isn't risky). :P
I want what I do to help my team, and with the latest dar experiment at best it will take longer to achieve the same risk/reward as before; at worst, I'll be on people's dar as a bomber several sectors before I get to target. I appreciate HT's attempts to bring new players into the game and will stick it out long enough to see what finally happens. But so far this one does not work for me.
welcome to war, fighter patrols were and are a thing.
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welcome to war, fighter patrols were and are a thing.
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Liar. :old: :devil
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What is the current floor of the dar? I love to be on the deck.
65 feet :bhead
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Emphasis by me. He calls it radar, and so should we.
(uh oh, the preview looks lengthy. sorry, but I'll post anyway. feel free to not read if its too much.)
Well thought out post, ccvi! :aok
I can not speak on the new update yet, haven't had time to get online....
But I do agree with alot of your post, especially the SA (situational awareness) stuff...
~S~
TC
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-1 on the new radar format
There was nothing wrong with the old one.
-1 for AH3 in 8-2018
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Dummy dar 2.0
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Well, the "average player" doesn't generally do what I'm talking about, so you're correct on that.
So you're saying you see every single bandit that comes within icon range of your plane? How would you know if you missed a guy? You wouldn't have seen him.
Weekend afternoons if there's no good fight, I do it all the time if the strat raiders are active.
Wiley.
Of course in a 10 man bomber crew you would have 20 eyes scanning every direction at the same time with some of them using high power binocs.
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I should have known this would be the reaction to ANY change.
IT IS NOT RADAR. IT IS AN INFORMATION SYSTEM.
"Woodbine Red Leader, bandits, thirty plus. Vector zero nine zero to intercept." - Radar Controller
"Woodbine Red Leader, I've got bandits! Thirty FWs ten miles east of Bumville at twenty thousand." - Fighter Pilot
"Coastwatch One, bandits, thirty plus. Heading 260, twenty thousand." - Ground Observer
Fighting is the problem. Which is odd coming from ccvi since he will stand in there and swing the bat.
It is radar.
And as far as I remember we have had an "INFORMATION SYSTEM" for years, its called "COUNTRY CHANNEL" "RANGE CHANNEL" "SQUAD CHANNEL" and whatever other channels there are. Correct me if I am wrong but not all (if any) of the a/c flying in AH had any type of radar system.
Big problem today is no one wants to learn how to do anything, they all want the easy button, participation trophy, fast action, give me everything for free. This game has a very big learning curve and that's one thing that i really enjoy about it.
-1 for dummy dar
PS: if you can't find a fight, I am sure there are many eye doctors out there to get eyes checked.
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+1000 on the new radar format. I had a blast doing lots of different things on numerous missions. Fur balled for awhile. CAP’d a base for awhile. Attacked as a JABO for awhile. Then we went and snuck four or five fields, the first one NOE.
This format, with perhaps a few tweaks, may be the ideal compromise. It generated action while still allowing the stategerists (sic) a chance to do their thing, too.
Very exciting stuff. Well done.
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It is radar.
And as far as I remember we have had an "INFORMATION SYSTEM" for years, its called "COUNTRY CHANNEL" "RANGE CHANNEL" "SQUAD CHANNEL" and whatever other channels there are. Correct me if I am wrong but not all (if any) of the a/c flying in AH had any type of radar system.
Big problem today is no one wants to learn how to do anything, they all want the easy button, participation trophy, fast action, give me everything for free. This game has a very big learning curve and that's one thing that i really enjoy about it.
-1 for dummy dar
PS: if you can't find a fight, I am sure there are many eye doctors out there to get eyes checked.
Ground control would relay radar and any other info to the intercepting pilots in BOB. I am sure this happened in many places.
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PS: if you can't find a fight, I am sure there are many eye doctors out there to get eyes checked.
SMH. We’ve been over this fiction you are advocating here so many times my fingers are raw. Come follow me around sometime and I’ll show you why your premise is incorrect.
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Ground control would relay radar and any other info to the intercepting pilots in BOB. I am sure this happened in many places.
And as far as I can remember in AH we also have ground control.......
Player X...We have large dar bar out of Base XYZ
Players A,B,C.....we are rolling
Its called country channel
Trust me the game will be more gamed than it already is and I know just how I will go about it.
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I think a lot of the objections to the recent and current radar tests could be addressed by adding additional delay to the "enhanced" radar.
So, keep the current short (2 sec) delay within working friendly radar circles so it acts like "radar" -- near instant information.
Add delay (10 - 30 seconds ?) to the distant radar to simulate the time it takes for ground controllers to relay enemy contacts and ground observations to aircraft in flight. This would show areas of activity, but not be a substitute for SA.
Also, make the base radar the same hardness and downtime as hangars, unaffected by the radar factory strat. Make the distant radar delay variable, based on the condition of the radar factory strat. So, base radar could still be deliberately destroyed -- but not for hours -- and there would still be a good reason to attack the radar factory.
Yet another two cents in the radar sweepstakes kitty...
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And as far as I can remember in AH we also have ground control.......
Player X...We have large dar bar out of Base XYZ
I believe you misspelled Players A,B,C...... *silence*
8 minutes later...
Players A,B,C... Alert Base C! Many contacts on radar! Why did nobody warn us?!
Nobody responds to alerts until they can see dots on radar. I do not understand why that is, but that is what happens 95% of the time I see it.
Wiley.
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I believe you misspelled Players A,B,C...... *silence*
8 minutes later...
Players A,B,C... Alert Base C! Many contacts on radar! Why did nobody warn us?!
Nobody responds to alerts until they can see dots on radar. I do not understand why that is, but that is what happens 95% of the time I see it.
Wiley.
+1
Country channel reminds me of social media, say something that is relevant and *crickets*, say something completely irrelevant and *chatter, chatter, chatter*. I think if Hitech added like a 15-30 second delay to all icons it would balance itself out.
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I like the current setting
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+1
Country channel reminds me of social media, say something that is relevant and *crickets*, say something completely irrelevant and *chatter, chatter, chatter*. I think if Hitech added like a 15-30 second delay to all icons it would balance itself out.
I really like the idea of "player dar" being on a delay and "field dar" being updated more frequently. I'd put it out to 30 seconds to a minute, myself.
The thing is, Hawker is mostly right. The information is available under the old radar system for the most part. It just seems the vast majority of players don't use it and aren't interested in learning how to.
What's better? Having a system in place that nobody learns and nobody uses to the detriment of the game, or having a system that, while a bit gamey, makes things better for the "lazy" players?
The fact of the matter is, relying on other players doing something to provide intel is a losing proposition in an online game.
Wiley.
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And as far as I can remember in AH we also have ground control.......
Yes it is called radar in AH.
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I really like the idea of "player dar" being on a delay and "field dar" being updated more frequently. I'd put it out to 30 seconds to a minute, myself.
Two planes passing each other at 200 mph take about 1 minute to cross each others 6k yards area. For me 1 minute would be the lower boundary.
The thing is, Hawker is mostly right. The information is available under the old radar system for the most part. It just seems the vast majority of players don't use it and aren't interested in learning how to.
They can't read? I don't think that's the problem. Its a bit surprising, but ADHS seems to be contagious. Noone has any kind of patience left to sit in tower to watch the situation for a few minutes before acting. Everyone wants to take off right now. Information that is available only sporadically doesn't seem to help, even if it is repeated every 30 seconds.
Patience is an extremely important aspect of the game. But it seems to be a thing of the past.
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They can't read?
I don't think most of them pay attention to channel. I see far more often than not, very very few people react to an enemy horde until they see dots or the base starts flashing, then they complain because the enemy are higher than them. It happens over and over and over.
Like I've said before, it's not enough to provide information for most players. You need to grab them by the back of the neck and rub their faces in something to get them to notice it.
Wiley.
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Now bring min dar to 200 ft
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I actually liked the new radar update after flying last night. I think it's a good way for players to find the fights. It may help to slow down ganging.
I still wish there was a way to see the fight on the other side of the map to determine which team to join to help the fight.
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I like the new Radar setting any improvement is better.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. "Aristotle" Greek philosopher
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I like the new "what has been seen can't become unseen" system. Not everyone reads the channel or types on it. Not to mention every armchair general wanting everyone to join the fight at their whereabouts, flooding the channel with field numbers they think need immediate attention.
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I love the new radar. I hope it stays this way.
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I love the new radar. I hope it stays this way.
Then I hate IT :devil Sorry Rud3, was my post Cartoon stress kicking in...I agree +1. seems to be a good compromise
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Ive come to the conclusion.. if you dont like the new radar, you probably score most of you kills shooting guys taking off, or in a horde. The dar doesnt hurt the guys with balls. Case closed
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How long is Dummy Dar going to be tested for?
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You can always get fighter cover.
Or manned gunners on board? :rock :cheers:
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IMHO, Wiley nails it! I look at the Radar as HQ Controllers plotting the map, and putting in a 30 second, delay while the digital map room personnel change the plots is totally acceptable. The map itself I consider a kneeboard one, that we pilots update in cockpit, like the uber multitaskers that we are. :cheers: :salute :aok
Of the new radar changes I like this one the best so far. If it were me I think I would try it on a 1 or two minute delay. It would allow people to find the fight without giving them real time enemy information within 6000 yards of themselves.
Wiley.
Well said, Wiley! 👍👍🤜🤛👏
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Ive come to the conclusion.. if you dont like the new radar, you probably score most of you kills shooting guys taking off, or in a horde. The dar doesnt hurt the guys with balls. Case closed
When did you stop beating your wife?
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Ive come to the conclusion.. if you dont like the new radar, you probably score most of you kills shooting guys taking off, or in a horde. The dar doesnt hurt the guys with balls. Case closed
:rofl :aok +1
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Ive come to the conclusion.. if you dont like the new radar, you probably score most of you kills shooting guys taking off, or in a horde. The dar doesnt hurt the guys with balls. Case closed
Proof or conjecture?
:salute
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I like the new setting as well. Some suggestions to refine it more:
1.) Show icons on map ONLY if the "spotting" aircraft has actually "seen" (have icon on screen) the enemy aircraft. This way it would be possible to sneak up on an enemy again from low six without him seeing you on the map as soon as you are within 6.0k (UNREALISTIC!!)
2.) Show icons on map ALSO for people that have discoed. I have seen this yesterday and I think it may be exploitable: If you disco from your aircraft, it will keep flying for a while, when you connect again, you jump back into it. However - while you are discoed, your plane WON´T SHOW UP on enemy radar at all! So how to get to your target undetected? Fly towards it, just before entering radar, disconnect. Then time your reconnect so that you jump back in just as you approach your target. Stealth mode!
Litjan
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When did you stop beating your wife?
:aok
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If you use more than two paragraphs in a thread that’s not Hardware or software help you are in a bad mood.
I play this game for fun if you don’t you need to go for brisk walk
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I thin kit makes sneaking around harder. Sneaking around seems like an important part of a war game. But I like the way it helps the action etc...
Maybe a compromise would be to tag the enemy icon signifying that you actually saw it. I think there is a system for toggling from icon to icon to send a check 6 or some such thing but I never used it.
:salute
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As someone who was completely against the "full dar" I find the new setting acceptable and much more realistic. This should be a fair compromise IMHO to all.
However - there is still a minor problem with people flying NOE as mentioned for example goon pilots into a base. It is now very easy for someone to simply up an aircraft and fly anywhere near a town until the icon is shown on dar and then go straight to kill it. Or if a goon landed / parked nearby a town on the ground the same happens. This is not so realistic.
Hoping some minor tweak to the current setting could be done in this regard but otherwise acceptable change.
Cheers!
Elec1
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Or if a goon landed / parked nearby a town on the ground the same happens. This is not so realistic.
I agree that landing and parking a goon near an enemy town is not so realistic. There ought to be a way to stop it!
- oldman
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I agree that landing and parking a goon near an enemy town is not so realistic. There ought to be a way to stop it!
- oldman
:aok
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Either keep the game authentic. Or stick large red arrows over participants saying here I am to help the wine go down a little better with the cheese :old:
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Either keep the game authentic. Or stick large red arrows over participants saying here I am to help the wine go down a little better with the cheese :old:
P-51 vs P-47. :old:
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Either keep the game authentic. Or stick large red arrows over participants saying here I am to help the wine go down a little better with the cheese :old:
AVA
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P-51 vs P-47. :old:
Aircraft with dar in them :old:
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Aircraft with dar in them :old:
HUD :old:
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Maybe I missed it, but HT...was is the reason for the dar change?
Wondering how many people will answer besides HT?
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It's supposed to increase player #s or make the game better.
If so it seem like a strange way to do it.
Old dar was fine
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Aircraft with dar in them :old:
HUD :old:
TOUCHE'!!! :old: :banana: Fess for the win.
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:furious Trebuchets behind birds, and Cross Bows in their wings :confused: Sorry WRONG GAME FORUM :bolt: I do believe that this community sort of proves the old adage" As Adults age, they revert back to child like tendencies" :uhoh The only change acceptable...is the change of diapers. What EVER YOU DO...DONT change the Jello :old:
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:furious Trebuchets behind birds, and Cross Bows in their wings :confused: Sorry WRONG GAME FORUM :bolt: I do believe that this community sort of proves the old adage" As Adults age, they revert back to child like tendencies" :uhoh The only change acceptable...is the change of diapers. What EVER YOU DO...DONT change the Jello :old:
Revert back to child like tendencies? That implies that there was growth at some point.
I've always agreed more with the adage of "The only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys" :devil
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Maybe I missed it, but HT...was is the reason for the dar change?
Wondering how many people will answer besides HT?
You didnt miss it, Hitech rarely posts the "why's" of anything he does. If you want a strait answer, PM or email Hitech..... he may answer you.
Speculation is when a new player logs in for the first time ....
Old dar, a few dots/plane markers here and there ( attack zones have dar down most of the time) dar BARs are not always intuitive. Doesnt look very active, boring. New players log out never to return.
New dar shows players all over the map, lots of action going on, more interesting, may how the new guys attention longer.
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TOUCHE'!!! :old: :banana: Fess for the win.
so the hud in your a/c show me where other a/c are in AH?
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You didnt miss it, Hitech rarely posts the "why's" of anything he does. If you want a strait answer, PM or email Hitech..... he may answer you.
Speculation is when a new player logs in for the first time ....
Old dar, a few dots/plane markers here and there ( attack zones have dar down most of the time) dar BARs are not always intuitive. Doesnt look very active, boring. New players log out never to return.
New dar shows players all over the map, lots of action going on, more interesting, may how the new guys attention longer.
Thanks HT
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so the hud in your a/c show me where other a/c are in AH?
Nope, it was a counter to the comment that in plane radar was not historical. Some ww2 aircraft did have radar in them, none to my knowledge had HUD.
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Nope, it was a counter to the comment that in plane radar was not historical. Some ww2 aircraft did have radar in them, none to my knowledge had HUD.
how many in AH?
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how many in AH?
I am not sure. About 1000 less than there are people crying about it.
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This new radar feature is great. I logged in with 60 people on but found air combat easily, and teamplay with your countrymen is much easier to do now. I was also unable to milkrun a bombrun and was engaged as soon as someone spotted me, which is great!
Another good side effect is that it puts less emphasis on killing the radar, no more lemming suicide strafing runs.
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how many in AH?
100 - 200 evening & weekends US EDT. There's always a fight to be found somewhere.
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how many in AH?
The point is your call for “authentic[ity]” is disingenuous on multiple fronts.
Concessions are made for a variety of valid reasons, primarily to enhance the gameplay experience.
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This new radar feature is great. I logged in with 60 people on but found air combat easily, and teamplay with your countrymen is much easier to do now. I was also unable to milkrun a bombrun and was engaged as soon as someone spotted me, which is great!
Another good side effect is that it puts less emphasis on killing the radar, no more lemming suicide strafing runs.
I like it too,
You can act as a scout by being over an enemy base and your friendlies can then see how many Bish are just flying a holding pattern over their own base at 20k. Lights them up like a xmas tree. ;)
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I like it too,
You can act as a scout by being over an enemy base and your friendlies can then see how many Bish are just flying a holding pattern over their own base at 20k. Lights them up like a xmas tree. ;)
Thats NOTHING NEW :uhoh. Where I am from...we NEVER take the lights,down :devil
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Found some bombers today. After a first pass we got separated by a cloud layer, me above, them below. Using radar could set up a nice IFR approach through the clouds, back to visual at the right moment to open fire.
Funny stuff that radar.
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The point is your call for “authentic[ity]” is disingenuous on multiple fronts.
Concessions are made for a variety of valid reasons, primarily to enhance the gameplay experience.
Started out that way, that's why I started to play. Up to 700 playing at a time, something was working back then, not now. Possibly game is just outdated, no new players like slow old warbirds, no one wants to learn, just want fast action. If i want a XBOX type game i would buy one. Going to burn perk points this weekend then be gone. OUT
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Found some bombers today. After a first pass we got separated by a cloud layer, me above, them below. Using radar could set up a nice IFR approach through the clouds, back to visual at the right moment to open fire.
Funny stuff that radar.
Took the hunt right out of it....sad
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no one wants to learn, just want fast action
There are thousands and thousands of posts on these boards, lamenting the decline of players in the game. IMHO, the above statement is the primary reason we've reached the juncture we're at. So.........how do you fix that?
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fast action is the best way to learn acm, just saying. If you don't want action maybe you're part of the problem.
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I can't tell Hitech how to run his business, I can choose to understand how the MA works with 50-120 customers.
So for two years now I've created terrains none stop while then lurking and observing\listening to the MA population as those terrains are played on to understand how this era of players uses the MA. Over those two years I've evolved the terrains focused on the reality we have between 50-120 players in the MA at most times. Last night my newest terrain riftval had the longest sustained window of player activity I've seen in two years of my terrains. During prime time about 5pm-10pm pacific time, 120 players were concentrated in three areas while making the action seem like 10 years ago. Concentration of players is the key element since in that small area, density of players actively fighting creates the illusion of numbers due to their re-upping to get back into the activity. In the era of 400 players a night, that re-upping to get back to the activity was the core of how player activity was sustained and self perpetuated. Getting 50-120 players to self perpetuate activity all evening instead of 30-40 minutes in chunks with no activity low periods, is much harder becasue mentally they get tired and loose interest. Where with 400 they had space to get their wind back. With 50-120 players it's all on those players to keep it going with out a break which is not really feasible. Our competitors have timed tiny arenas with small numbers. We have old maps designed for 400 people that tire out 50-120 people. Our 10x10 small terrain size can support 50-120 if the terrain is designed to support that number instead of 400, that is what I did with riftval.
As much as some want to believe it's not formula, there is a formula to helping a small number of customers create a great amount of concentrated activity on 10x10 maps. It took two years of feature testing on terrains to get a handle on it. If anything, NDisles is a prototype of that formula and it makes me wonder how old it really is. Pre 2002 did we have numbers more like we do now? That would be for someone else to remember. Since the average distances on NDisles is 25 miles, even for a small map action can slow down due to turn around time. Time not in action deteriorates activity windows for smaller numbers in the MA. Shortening the majority transit lanes between locations helps maintain player willingness to continue going back to a location. A consequence is shortening how long that terrain will be the active terrain in the MA due to faster capture of feilds. The only way to make a terrain last a long time in the MA is to build it to stop the old hoards from the era of 400 players. Then you just bore 50-120 players and they don't create activity which may cause some to leave the game. Replace three of the GV bases in the crater on CraterMA with small airfields like on NDilses, you will probably have the same scale of activity there as on NDisles due to that change. Otherwise, that crater is one of the most dead game play areas Aces High has in the MA arena.
The current radar works well in an environment where the average field distance is only 19 miles like the majority of feilds on riftval are set at. Very quickly the locations of enemy's becomes exposed becasue it takes very little time to travel half way across a 19 mile distance. This helps create an illusion of numbers to fight against and promotes activity. Along with not allowing player enthusiasm to keep returning to a fight be erased by long transit times back to that fight. It helps to setup GV spawn paths that support air combat paths and don't allow self segregation from the prime activity area in any given time frame. This means creating micro terrain for tanks that is attractive for tank combat to make up for not allowing self segregation from the primary air combat initiatives. Riftval is full of gully's, canyons, hills, orchards, and rivers with bridges which creates nuance at the ground level for the tank combat players helping attack feilds. Also mixing up the capture method between a town and the map room on the field changes the combat capture dynamic nuance.
Our terrains became cookie cutter and boring designed to slow hoards on average nights of 400 players, especially now for so few players looking for quicker action.
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Started out that way, that's why I started to play. Up to 700 playing at a time, something was working back then, not now. Possibly game is just outdated, no new players like slow old warbirds, no one wants to learn, just want fast action. If i want a XBOX type game i would buy one. Going to burn perk points this weekend then be gone. OUT
Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you'll be back. :salute
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I'm going to give it a try, but as it stands it seems to eliminate the "low 6" attack. I always enjoyed having to check for this, and occasionally taking advantage of it. Gave me something to do while flying. Also back when I flew planes more (instead of GVs), it was often possible to drag a hopeful "low 6" attacker away from the horde, so he could be fought 1-1.
MH
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Thanks Bustr for the maps. Very appreciated ! I do like the maps I Flew last few nights was great fun. Action has picked up a good bit
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I'm going to give it a try, but as it stands it seems to eliminate the "low 6" attack. I always enjoyed having to check for this, and occasionally taking advantage of it. Gave me something to do while flying. Also back when I flew planes more (instead of GVs), it was often possible to drag a hopeful "low 6" attacker away from the horde, so he could be fought 1-1.
MH
well this system sure tends to turn 1v1's into XvX's, but unless your foe has it's face into the map with max zoom in, sneak attacks are still possible
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fast action is the best way to learn acm, just saying. If you don't want action maybe you're part of the problem.
ACM in a sim that the flight modeling is nowhere near real, use to be back when it started. Now all you see is a/c doing flip flops and summer salts in the air. I would bet if real a/c would do that they would be dead. Use to be able to pork fuel at a bases and all the cry babies said i cant up because i dont have fuel....poof... pork fuel now only affects drop tanks. We can't tell if a gv is at a base.....poof....gv dummy dar........we cant find a fight.......poof.....air dummy dar. Next thing it will be......SirNuke is in a 109 at 15000 with 3/4 tank of fuel heading east.
This game use to have far more realism to it when it first started, but that is way in the past.
Yes i want action, but i would rather work for it, not have the EASY button and that's the problem now days no one want to work for it........give me the easy button please. :bolt:
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New radar test setup makes it difficult to use a goon to capture. Even when the goon is shut down and sitting on the ground all the enemy has to do is get within icon range and the goon lights up on the map.
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New radar test setup makes it difficult to use a goon to capture. Even when the goon is shut down and sitting on the ground all the enemy has to do is get within icon range and the goon lights up on the map.
It's an OUTRAGE! :old:
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New radar test setup makes it difficult to use a goon to capture. Even when the goon is shut down and sitting on the ground all the enemy has to do is get within icon range and the goon lights up on the map.
Maybe adjust your strategy?
not sure why the realism crowd havent bashed that "land a cargo AC just out side of town" bit.
I've done it once (my only base capture) and it's still gamey as heck.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Yep, does call for a change in strategy.
Just pointing out that the new radar makes it easy to find a plane that the enemy isn't looking for and can't see.
Might call it, "gamey has heck". :D
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I've done it once (my only base capture) and it's still gamey as heck.
Landing a c47 on some land used for agriculture is no problem. It's not much worse than many airfields at that time.
Landing troops is as gamey as dropping them. In reality shipping things (and troops) by air needs a very important reason to justify the cost. Typically to capure land troops had to walk.
Flying them in is just a game thing that evolved from pacific maps taking fields by landing a single fighter (as in that one instance that happened in reality).
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New radar test setup makes it difficult to use a goon to capture. Even when the goon is shut down and sitting on the ground all the enemy has to do is get within icon range and the goon lights up on the map.
One of my counters to people bombing GVs, or using Storches, used to be to land a fighter (e.g. Yak3) in a clearing, wait for the culprit plane(s) to show up, then take off again. So perhaps planes on the ground and below NOE setting should not be shown on this new "radar". MH
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Landing a c47 on some land used for agriculture is no problem. It's not much worse than many airfields at that time.
Landing troops is as gamey as dropping them. In reality shipping things (and troops) by air needs a very important reason to justify the cost. Typically to capure land troops had to walk.
Flying them in is just a game thing that evolved from pacific maps taking fields by landing a single fighter (as in that one instance that happened in reality).
because troops never parachuted IRL... .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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because troops never parachuted IRL... .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Never! :old:
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Never! :old:
Well there was this one time....at band camp..
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Maybe adjust your strategy?
not sure why the realism crowd havent bashed that "land a cargo AC just out side of town" bit.
I've done it once (my only base capture) and it's still gamey as heck.
about as bad as a 30 ton tank gets stopped in it's tracks by a tree branch.....that's so real :x
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ACM in a sim that the flight modeling is nowhere near real, use to be back when it started. Now all you see is a/c doing flip flops and summer salts in the air. I would bet if real a/c would do that they would be dead. Use to be able to pork fuel at a bases and all the cry babies said i cant up because i dont have fuel....poof... pork fuel now only affects drop tanks. We can't tell if a gv is at a base.....poof....gv dummy dar........we cant find a fight.......poof.....air dummy dar. Next thing it will be......SirNuke is in a 109 at 15000 with 3/4 tank of fuel heading east.
This game use to have far more realism to it when it first started, but that is way in the past.
Yes i want action, but i would rather work for it, not have the EASY button and that's the problem now days no one want to work for it........give me the easy button please.
+1 :airplane:
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It eliminates two of the very basics of air combat. The bounce and keeping Your head on a swivel. 45 seconds of every minute a fighter pilot was flying was spent searching the sky. also it eliminates much of the Aces High Anxiety and lessens the game excitement somewhat. Have a blast.
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I wouldn't mind the radar settings now if every plane didn't have perfect sat nav. But that will never happen, not even in scenarios.
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Yep, does call for a change in strategy.
Just pointing out that the new radar makes it easy to find a plane that the enemy isn't looking for and can't see.
Might call it, "gamey has heck". :D
Makes one wonder why CYBRO doesnt get killed more :huh Drive a plane off base and park it in the woods..stays for days :rolleyes: Best way to get rid if him...Kill Mako04 with a wirb and wait on him to come back with a bomb. Pull up right next to Cybro...you wont wait very long, unless you kill Mako again,before he drops...but it does work :neener:
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Makes one wonder why CYBRO doesnt get killed more :huh Drive a plane off base and park it in the woods..stays for days :rolleyes: Best way to get rid if him...Kill Mako04 with a wirb and wait on him to come back with a bomb. Pull up right next to Cybro...you wont wait very long, unless you kill Mako again,before he drops...but it does work :neener:
another reason this game going down fast...tower sitters and people you were talking about
i know rule #4
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Was just saying that Cybro parks and noone finds him? Just teasing about both..cybro is harmless..Mako though...he kills. Named after a shark..so it fits. He does hold a grudge for a LOONG time. Its all you folk and personalities that make AH FUN :rock
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It eliminates two of the very basics of air combat. The bounce and keeping Your head on a swivel. 45 seconds of every minute a fighter pilot was flying was spent searching the sky. also it eliminates much of the Aces High Anxiety and lessens the game excitement somewhat. Have a blast.
you can tell a ;persons flying/fighting style by what they complain about. :salute