General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: The Fugitive on March 02, 2019, 11:10:36 PM
Title: Game play
Post by: The Fugitive on March 02, 2019, 11:10:36 PM
Tonight, the Bish had the numbers. They hammered the Knights and ignored the Rooks until they had 33% of Knit bases. Rooks had nobody else to fight so they were hitting Knights as well. Once the Bish got their happy 33% they turned to the Rooks. Full horde hitting some bases while they sneak in with GVs and steal bases unseen.
Knights horded by the Bish most of the night, then Rooks horded the rest of the night.
Getting to the point that it isnt worth playing any more. Either its feast or famine. No fights or just struggling against the horde. Is this the game play that we have left and can expect from now on? Its time HTC puts in a tweak to cut down on the hording/ganging of a single team.
I still think it should be something along the lines of a team MUST take a base from the second team for each two bases they take from the first team.
For tonight this would have given the Rooks some bish to fight early in the night and the Knights a chance to regroup. Instead tonight was just another night watching guys log off in frustration. Great way to keep new players long time.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: flippz on March 03, 2019, 12:48:18 AM
I got on at about 6pm and rooks were in full horde of the nits.
me and some squaddies went and wf a town rook 65 I believe and before we could bail and get m3s there it was resupped and not a dar bar to be seen. no real reason to keep flying over there if its gonna be resupped that fast.
I agree with you on a base capture limit before having to swap to the other front. I think one it helps keep the action moving around the map since we cant have a one war front number two it keeps a country from having its brains beat in to the point of no return.
Most nits were just enjoying the fight tbh. Sometimes your the hammer, sometimes your the nail.
You on the other hand spent most of the time berating people (accusing me of running when I wasn't even flying for example), but worst of all your incessant whinging and moaning about the game and Hitech probably put more people off. Yes I know about squelch, but the new guys don't. You may consider that before opening that never ending source of dribble on #200.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: whiteman on March 03, 2019, 03:52:52 AM
The frustrating thing is the reset cleared the lobby, it was dead after that. My first real night in years was killed after the reset.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: nrshida on March 03, 2019, 04:49:47 AM
Yes I know about squelch, but the new guys don't. You may consider that before opening that never ending source of dribble on #200.
That argument would only be applicable if there were an influx of new guys :)
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 03, 2019, 07:46:02 AM
If your not happy with the game?
No one cares :old:
Go play the other flight combat sims
This cartoon game does not cater for your trigger warning safe space complaints.
All the people who are complaining are the ones who get anoyed in game when they get owned or laughed at :rofl
Its all about me me me :rofl
No one cares :rofl
Shida and Fess are both the same...... short fattys
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: FLOOB on March 03, 2019, 07:53:09 AM
Yeah, I'm in the small minority who think there's often too many players in the ma. When you get triple digit populations all the players coalesce into one big monkey poo fight on each country border. A conveyor belt of suicide jabos, buffs, and opportunists in getaway planes, oh and 50% of the arena sitting in mobile manned guns (gv's).
I would like to see the fighter jock become much more relevant to the war. How to make that happen I don't know. Attrition? Maybe take away the ability for buff pilots to man own buff guns, making them a bit more dependent on fighter escort? I don't know.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 03, 2019, 09:17:21 AM
I got ganged in my Knight I-16! The outrage! It was marvelous! :cool:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 03, 2019, 09:50:31 AM
Yeah, I'm in the small minority who think there's often too many players in the ma. When you get triple digit populations all the players coalesce into one big monkey poo fight on each country border. A conveyor belt of suicide jabos, buffs, and opportunists in getaway planes, oh and 50% of the arena sitting in mobile manned guns (gv's).
I would like to see the fighter jock become much more relevant to the war. How to make that happen I don't know. Attrition? Maybe take away the ability for buff pilots to man own buff guns, making them a bit more dependent on fighter escort? I don't know.
:rofl
:)
I am logging and would own you in Spit 1
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: nrshida on March 03, 2019, 10:16:27 AM
I don't think people are complaining about the game as much as what the gameplay's been allowed to decay into. The grinding steamrolling of undefended / poorly-defended bases on a production line basis that the MA has been reduced to. This process precisely forced to exclusion of everything else by egotistical, self-indulgent, 'winners' who cannot distinguish this IS simply a game and that the outcome is in fact entertainment through interaction with other players.
The minute they 'win the war' The whole thing gets reset to precisely the default values and they start the whole process again like they get productivity bonuses for it. This Sisyphean nightmare is now effectively all this game offers on a persistent basis. Why in the name of Satan's flaming underpants would that be appealing to new players AND they have to pay $15 a month for it :rofl
The state of gameplay for existing players is the least of your worries. I trained JoBravo by the way he was a millennial, enthusiastic and a quick learner. Where is he now and why? He did what you advised and is now flying IL2.
Take a look around you. How many players have we lost in the last six months to essentially age-related illnesses in addition to those that have left giving good reasons for doing so.
All you lot can seem to come up with is "If you don't like it leave". Genius :)
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: guncrasher on March 03, 2019, 10:19:36 AM
a couple of weeks ago when I logged in rooks were down to 5 bases. a few rooks started complaining about getting hammered by the other two countries. one pointed out, hey we get to fight within 1 minute if taking off, enjoy. both bishops and knights were trying to get the same took bases and we weren't gonna give it up that easy.
there must have been about 60 players, at least, in the same sector. there was fights from the ground all the way up to 15k. there was tank fights, low buffs, and fighter to figure. it was awesome.
I wish everyday was like that.
semp
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: caldera on March 03, 2019, 10:29:41 AM
Yesterday, there was a big red dar bar from the base across the pond. I flew out there alone and a N1K arrived before the horde. He took the FQ shot and went blazing past me, never attempting to fight. I chased him but in a Ki-61, could not catch him. He flew for half a sector, continuously descending until I looked back and saw another N1K barely off the deck lining up behind me. Then a Zero joined in on my side and I broke off. Within 20 seconds, the Zero was surrounded by 5 red guys. As I watched, a Jug took off my elevator. Now that there were 8 or 9 of them versus 1, that N1K was game for a fight. He and the Jug tried to vulch me as I landed.
A reciprocity of sorts, he got no fight and I logged off in disgust. Fun stuff.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 03, 2019, 10:29:47 AM
All you lot can seem to come up with is "If you don't like it leave". Genius :)
When you rage quit, claiming you're leaving the forum for good ... only to come back to the forum to pizz, moan, criticize and judge from on high then your credibility is rather questionable.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Shuffler on March 03, 2019, 10:32:16 AM
a couple of weeks ago when I logged in rooks were down to 5 bases. a few rooks started complaining about getting hammered by the other two countries. one pointed out, hey we get to fight within 1 minute if taking off, enjoy. both bishops and knights were trying to get the same took bases and we weren't gonna give it up that easy.
there must have been about 60 players, at least, in the same sector. there was fights from the ground all the way up to 15k. there was tank fights, low buffs, and fighter to figure. it was awesome.
I wish everyday was like that.
semp
Exactly!
There will always be a few that are a burden to the game though. They will stick their finger in the air for some personal cause to the detriment of the game.
Hopefully the new folks ignore them and realize the few negative nancies are not the game.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: caldera on March 03, 2019, 10:35:15 AM
Tonight, the Bish had the numbers. They hammered the Knights and ignored the Rooks until they had 33% of Knit bases. Rooks had nobody else to fight so they were hitting Knights as well. Once the Bish got their happy 33% they turned to the Rooks. Full horde hitting some bases while they sneak in with GVs and steal bases unseen.
Knights horded by the Bish most of the night, then Rooks horded the rest of the night.
Getting to the point that it isnt worth playing any more. Either its feast or famine. No fights or just struggling against the horde. Is this the game play that we have left and can expect from now on? Its time HTC puts in a tweak to cut down on the hording/ganging of a single team.
I still think it should be something along the lines of a team MUST take a base from the second team for each two bases they take from the first team.
For tonight this would have given the Rooks some bish to fight early in the night and the Knights a chance to regroup. Instead tonight was just another night watching guys log off in frustration. Great way to keep new players long time.
I like that idea. :aok
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 03, 2019, 10:44:05 AM
I don't think people are complaining about the game as much as what the gameplay's been allowed to decay into. The grinding steamrolling of undefended / poorly-defended bases on a production line basis that the MA has been reduced to. This process precisely forced to exclusion of everything else by egotistical, self-indulgent, 'winners' who cannot distinguish this IS simply a game and that the outcome is in fact entertainment through interaction with other players.
The minute they 'win the war' The whole thing gets reset to precisely the default values and they start the whole process again like they get productivity bonuses for it. This Sisyphean nightmare is now effectively all this game offers on a persistent basis. Why in the name of Satan's flaming underpants would that be appealing to new players AND they have to pay $15 a month for it :rofl
The state of gameplay for existing players is the least of your worries. I trained JoBravo by the way he was a millennial, enthusiastic and a quick learner. Where is he now and why? He did what you advised and is now flying IL2.
Take a look around you. How many players have we lost in the last six months to essentially age-related illnesses in addition to those that have left giving good reasons for doing so.
All you lot can seem to come up with is "If you don't like it leave". Genius :)
So safe spaces or trigger warnings in game
If you dont like it dont play the game.... you dont :rofl :x
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Volron on March 03, 2019, 11:15:52 AM
I think resupplying a town should only resupply the guns there, nothing more. :headscratch:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Lazerr on March 03, 2019, 11:33:27 AM
Most nits were just enjoying the fight tbh. Sometimes your the hammer, sometimes your the nail.
But with how game play is getting worst and worst it shouldnt happen. ENY was added to help keep things even/fair so that one team couldnt build a huge advantage over another team. The same with the percentages for the "Win the war". Instead of pushing one team down to their last base or two THEN attacking the second side a percentage was put in giving the players the illusion of knowing how many bases were enough. How ever they are again pushing one team to the brink again, causing most of that team to log off in frustration.
Quote
You on the other hand spent most of the time berating people (accusing me of running when I wasn't even flying for example), but worst of all your incessant whinging and moaning about the game and Hitech probably put more people off. Yes I know about squelch, but the new guys don't. You may consider that before opening that never ending source of dribble on #200.
I spent 15 or 20 minutes trying to get an answer from another player, who I consider a decent stick... why if it was only him and me in the area..... until his 2 buddies showed up he had to run in his D9 vs my K4? Seeing it was a Yak9U that jumped in the fight with a KI84, once you opened your mouth of course I thought it was you as you have most of the kills in a 9u and 9T each month. Once the pilot of the 9U IDed himself I ignored you and asked him why he felt he had to make it 3 vs 1. Again another pilot many consider a good stick.
It basically was all about poor game play D9 didnt want to take a chance against me for fear of losing..... all planes are free once you pay the subscription, I thought that is what we are suppose to do in this GAME fight. 9U was third man in. I can understand a second guy jumping in to help someone who crying for help, but a third..... really? And if the D9 had an issue why did he turn back to keep the 3 vs 1 going?
I'll dive in to help a players but I avoid being the 3rd, 4rth, 5th and so on. Whats the point. If Im in a 5 vs 1 its because I was in first but suck bad enough that the other 4 guys thought I needed the help.... whether I called for it or not :P
So 15 or 20 minutes to try and educate players in some poor game play choices. The other 3 plus hours I was on I think I may have sent 5 or 6 lines out on 200. "incessant whinging and moaning about the game and Hitech" I think not.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: guncrasher on March 03, 2019, 12:14:19 PM
fugitive what makes you think you know the game so much that you have to educate others.
semp
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: The Fugitive on March 03, 2019, 12:35:08 PM
fugitive what makes you think you know the game so much that you have to educate others.
semp
Im just thinking that players who run and avoid fights in a FIGHTING game should be bad for business. Ganging players in a fighting should be bad for business. 2 teams ganging one should be bad for business. All things that cause players to log off and in the case of many new players NEVER return. Players leaving IS bad for business.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: 8thJinx on March 03, 2019, 12:57:55 PM
Each country gets a turn in that barrel. Last night it was the knight's turn.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: guncrasher on March 03, 2019, 01:13:28 PM
Im just thinking that players who run and avoid fights in a FIGHTING game should be bad for business. Ganging players in a fighting should be bad for business. 2 teams ganging one should be bad for business. All things that cause players to log off and in the case of many new players NEVER return. Players leaving IS bad for business.
I think that players who constantly complain about the game are causing people to leave and new players not to subscribe. when there's so many threads like this, new players will take one look and say what's the point.
other games won't allow players to talk negative about the game. they allow you to talk negative about this plane it a tank should be. different. but not constantly about how the game sucks according to some, like hitech allows players to do here.
the other players aren't causing players to quit or look at the bb and not bother, it's you who doing it with this constant whining.
semp
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vulcan on March 03, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
So 15 or 20 minutes to try and educate players in some poor game play choices. The other 3 plus hours I was on I think I may have sent 5 or 6 lines out on 200. "incessant whinging and moaning about the game and Hitech" I think not.
You think 15 or 20 minutes (it was longer) of you ranting on 200 about the game and Hitech is a good thing?
I wish we could get HT to post the #200 chat logs so you could read it back.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: The Fugitive on March 03, 2019, 01:47:31 PM
I think that players who constantly complain about the game are causing people to leave and new players not to subscribe. when there's so many threads like this, new players will take one look and say what's the point.
other games won't allow players to talk negative about the game. they allow you to talk negative about this plane it a tank should be. different. but not constantly about how the game sucks according to some, like hitech allows players to do here.
the other players aren't causing players to quit or look at the bb and not bother, it's you who doing it with this constant whining.
semp
LOL!!! yup, ok. I didnt realize I had such an influence on such a wide flung group of people, like EVERYONE who checks out the BBS. Do you realize how ridiculous the bolded statement is?
I was here during the start up times, I was here during its hay day, and I was here during those times in between. I have seen some of the best times this game has had to offer even when we didnt have 600 players in the arena. The things I have been pointing out and asking for change in are things that "gamers" have used to short cut their way through the game. That they have used to basterized that way the game is played down to its least common factors.
The game still has all the great things that made this game so great, but todays players are avoiding using them because it takes to much trouble to do so. Why learn to fight if you can run away all the time. Why learn to bomb when if you miss the 25 other players in your horde should be able to finish it off for you. Why create missions when a horde of dive bombing lancs can do the job with out cover.
Chasing runners, fighting horde or fighting IN a horde isnt going to keep anyone interested for very long. Changes need to be made. I know Hitech hates making changes, "whats worked for so long will continue to work" isnt going to fly any more. The gaming industry has become some much bigger with so many more options that any little thing that can chase away new players is something that needs to be looked at. Even if it is policing the BBS more and shut down what may be considered talking negative about the game. As long as it was across the board and not singleing out a player or two Id be ok with it because it would be change, and we need change.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 03, 2019, 01:57:03 PM
All this positive attitude is infectious. If it's as uplifting on ch. 200 as it is here, people are gonna come and join this community/game just for the feel good. :old:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: The Fugitive on March 03, 2019, 01:58:15 PM
You think 15 or 20 minutes (it was longer) of you ranting on 200 about the game and Hitech is a good thing?
I wish we could get HT to post the #200 chat logs so you could read it back.
Again, I dont think I was ranting nor saying anything about the game or Hitech. I was asking the two players WHY they had to run and then turn things into a 3 vs 1. I checked my films, and there is a 35-40 minute span I didnt film so the conversation was in that time. Once the 2 players answered my question I was finished with the conversation and was pretty much off the radio for the rest of the night.
Im sorry if you find it offensive when I point out poor game play. I just feel it is slowly killing the game off.
Well Im done. I was hoping that starting this thread might generate some more ideas to help bring back good game play. Instead some of you guys would rather attack me than try and come up with options that might help. Oh well.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 03, 2019, 02:04:37 PM
Wait ..... the right thing I was supposed to do when my I-16 got ganged was to interrogate the players that ganged up on me on Ch. 200? And here I thought I knew exactly what I was getting into (situational awareness) and that my playing the role of the underdog in an overwhelming situation was just was it was - hoping to score some hits or, dare I say, a single kill before I was shot down. And, if I pulled off the amazing and shot all the late war opponents down then there'd be quite a bit of glory to bask in. Well, some player's perception of fun differs. :D
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: guncrasher on March 03, 2019, 02:04:59 PM
LOL!!! yup, ok. I didnt realize I had such an influence on such a wide flung group of people, like EVERYONE who checks out the BBS. Do you realize how ridiculous the bolded statement is?
I was here during the start up times, I was here during its hay day, and I was here during those times in between. I have seen some of the best times this game has had to offer even when we didnt have 600 players in the arena. The things I have been pointing out and asking for change in are things that "gamers" have used to short cut their way through the game. That they have used to basterized that way the game is played down to its least common factors.
The game still has all the great things that made this game so great, but todays players are avoiding using them because it takes to much trouble to do so. Why learn to fight if you can run away all the time. Why learn to bomb when if you miss the 25 other players in your horde should be able to finish it off for you. Why create missions when a horde of dive bombing lancs can do the job with out cover.
Chasing runners, fighting horde or fighting IN a horde isnt going to keep anyone interested for very long. Changes need to be made. I know Hitech hates making changes, "whats worked for so long will continue to work" isnt going to fly any more. The gaming industry has become some much bigger with so many more options that any little thing that can chase away new players is something that needs to be looked at. Even if it is policing the BBS more and shut down what may be considered talking negative about the game. As long as it was across the board and not singleing out a player or two Id be ok with it because it would be change, and we need change.
been here playing longer than 10 years. during the what you call the golden era of ah when there were 600+ players during primetime. did you know there were hordes, pickers, runners, bomb and bailers, bomb****s, etc, back then?
everything that you complain about the current state of the game, happened back then too. I remember hordes of 30 or 40 players overwhelming undefended bases back then during primetime when there were 600 players.
and this thing 3v1 that you so much complained about happened a lot more back then. and guess what people still doing it today and will happened tomorrow. I wasnt here during joint squad ops but I heard that back then players would switch to whatever country it happened to be and just smash bases at will. I am pretty sure you remember those.
and when i say you I mean others like you that constantly complain about the current state of so called "gamers" that just want instant gratification. everything that you complain about the game now, guess what? it's been happening since the beginning.
semp
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Spikes on March 03, 2019, 02:06:19 PM
Again, I dont think I was ranting nor saying anything about the game or Hitech. I was asking the two players WHY they had to run and then turn things into a 3 vs 1. I checked my films, and there is a 35-40 minute span I didnt film so the conversation was in that time. Once the 2 players answered my question I was finished with the conversation and was pretty much off the radio for the rest of the night.
Im sorry if you find it offensive when I point out poor game play. I just feel it is slowly killing the game off.
Well Im done. I was hoping that starting this thread might generate some more ideas to help bring back good game play. Instead some of you guys would rather attack me than try and come up with options that might help. Oh well.
Those types of people have existed in Aces High since the beginning of time. Telling them not to do it won't make them not do it.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 03, 2019, 02:06:31 PM
been here playing longer than 10 years. during the what you call the golden era of ah when there were 600+ players during primetime. did you know there were hordes, pickers, runners, bomb and bailers, bomb****s, etc, back then?
everything that you complain about the current state of the game, happened back then too. I remember hordes of 30 or 40 players overwhelming undefended bases back then during primetime when there were 600 players.
and this thing 3v1 that you so much complained about happened a lot more back then. and guess what people still doing it today and will happened tomorrow. I wasnt here during joint squad ops but I heard that back then players would switch to whatever country it happened to be and just smash bases at will. I am pretty sure you remember those.
and when i say you I mean others like you that constantly complain about the current state of so called "gamers" that just want instant gratification. everything that you complain about the game now, guess what? it's been happening since the beginning.
semp
Spot on. :aok
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 03, 2019, 02:13:38 PM
Well Im done. I was hoping that starting this thread might generate some more ideas to help bring back good game play. Instead some of you guys would rather attack me than try and come up with options that might help. Oh well.
Don't pull a Shida, man. This aggression will not stand, man. It's ok to consider that changing your own attitude might make all the difference. :banana:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 03, 2019, 02:37:48 PM
Don't pull a Shida, man. This aggression will not stand, man. It's ok to consider that changing your own attitude might make all the difference. :banana:
This :old:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Joker on March 03, 2019, 02:49:43 PM
been here playing longer than 10 years. during the what you call the golden era of ah when there were 600+ players during primetime. did you know there were hordes, pickers, runners, bomb and bailers, bomb****s, etc, back then?
everything that you complain about the current state of the game, happened back then too. I remember hordes of 30 or 40 players overwhelming undefended bases back then during primetime when there were 600 players.
and this thing 3v1 that you so much complained about happened a lot more back then. and guess what people still doing it today and will happened tomorrow. I wasnt here during joint squad ops but I heard that back then players would switch to whatever country it happened to be and just smash bases at will. I am pretty sure you remember those.
and when i say you I mean others like you that constantly complain about the current state of so called "gamers" that just want instant gratification. everything that you complain about the game now, guess what? it's been happening since the beginning.
semp
^^^^^^ true dat :aok
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Shuffler on March 03, 2019, 03:19:08 PM
ENY works to make things fair. Nothing in the MA can actually force things to be fair... as in one on one. ENY works for the whole team. Now if that whole team decides to be in one place, it is going to be tough on the other side. That is unless that side can muster it's team to answer. We see that work and fail all the time, they answer the call or they don't and the base is saved or lost. Just as in war but with no real lives lost.
If everything in the game were fair in the MA, it would be the most boring game around.
Other arenas have been added for those with differing wants and needs but the folks asking for them do not fly there. That is why it is said that folks have no idea what they really want.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 03, 2019, 03:39:17 PM
ENY works to make things fair. Nothing in the MA can actually force things to be fair... as in one on one. ENY works for the whole team. Now if that whole team decides to be in one place, it is going to be tough on the other side. That is unless that side can muster it's team to answer. We see that work and fail all the time, they answer the call or they don't and the base is saved or lost. Just as in war but with no real lives lost.
If everything in the game were fair in the MA, it would be the most boring game around.
Other arenas have been added for those with differing wants and needs but the folks asking for them do not fly there. That is why it is said that folks have no idea what they really want.
I agree on the MA assessment but would like to add an obvious observation on the additional arenas.
The event arenas are a necessity for events to exist and although the participation in events has dropped a bit, there is still enough interest to warrant such.
The AvA arena would see more participation with more organization among the player population (especially those that participate in events). Without such, players may decide not to enter the arena when it reads '0' currently in it. Those of us that do enter, hoping another may (or more) will only stay until a couple of sorties, that approximate a small tour of the map, then we move on to where there is some action. It's disappointing but I think promotion of the AvA to players currently in the MA would help. It did, somewhat, in the past. But it needs to be promoted honestly and perhaps tweaked, accordingly (many a new player being disgruntled with no icons and such).
The WWI arena is the only environment to enjoy WWI planes. It is much in the same boat as the AvA and players have enjoyed it as long as they organize enough to be able to enter it when they know others are coming in to play.
I think the existence of 24/7 event style/immersive arenas with unlimited lives but traditional foe plane sets are the cat's meow and I've decided to promote the AvA again with gusto. I'm considering doing the same for the WWI arena. :)
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Mongoose on March 03, 2019, 04:36:47 PM
You are trying to force other players to play the way you want them to. That's not what this game is about.
Tonight, the Bish had the numbers. They hammered the Knights and ignored the Rooks until they had 33% of Knit bases. Rooks had nobody else to fight so they were hitting Knights as well. Once the Bish got their happy 33% they turned to the Rooks.
The problem here is not with the game. The problem is the lack of strategy by the Rooks. The Rooks should have hit the Bishops while the Bishops were rolling Knight bases. Part of the game is tactics and strategy. The idea of the open playground style we enjoy is to let the players employ whatever tactics and strategy they choose. It is up to the players to respond to the attack, not for the author to force the players to play the way you want them to.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: LilMak on March 03, 2019, 05:09:02 PM
While the game play hasn’t really changed much over the years, the number of players has. As it dwindles, it showcases some problems that weren’t much of a big deal before. The two countries kicking the third while down is becoming a consistent problem. You end up being in a continuous 10 on 1 or, even worse, unable to find anyone to fight.
Another thing which has changed is the quality of player. The average player is much better than they used to be. I personally think this has lead to some of the more timid behavior. Especially from those who take score to heart. The chances of you encountering a ringer in any plane are much greater and you have players exercising more caution.
With the 600 player count you could almost always find a fight that suited your style of play. Now...not so much. There was a time when I would get bored or disgruntled with a fight and simply fly to any enemy base. My appearance on dot dar would trigger players to rise to engage. Now they don’t even bother. It’s either a 88 or nothing.
Tools which were put in place to combat large hordes (re-supply, 88s, lower radar coverage, etc) currently force the need for hordes to form in order to gain traction on the base take. This also contributes to the two countries beating up on one.
So, I don’t think it’s the player base that’s the problem. It’s the tools the game itself provides that cause most of the problem. They were put in place for purposes that don’t currently exist on the scale they used to.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: hitech on March 03, 2019, 05:54:57 PM
Again, I dont think I was ranting nor saying anything about the game or Hitech
In my opinion you definitely are.
HiTech
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Lusche on March 03, 2019, 06:29:21 PM
Remember the 'good old days'? For the first ~7 years two countries ganging on one was even encouraged by the rules. For the newer players (or those vets who forgot), the war was over when one country lost by having less than a certain percentage of the bases. The winner was simply determined by which country had captured the most of the losers bases. So once one country seemed to go downhill, there was no incentive for the two others to fight each other at all. It simply was a race for having most of the losers bases. In the last months before this rule was changed, it got even more extreme: Knights had been the least populated country by then, so after each reset Bish and Rooks piled onto them without any hesitation. Almost a kind of two sided war, with the result of many knights quickly logging off or changing to the other side for good.
It's still better than that these days, as far as piling on a country goes.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vulcan on March 03, 2019, 06:37:24 PM
Another thing which has changed is the quality of player. The average player is much better than they used to be. I personally think this has lead to some of the more timid behavior. Especially from those who take score to heart. The chances of you encountering a ringer in any plane are much greater and you have players exercising more caution.
This is so true. In the old days I would take a tiffie up and bag a horde of easy kills, I think the best run I ever did was 35 (couple of rearms). There is no way I could do that these days.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vulcan on March 03, 2019, 06:40:21 PM
Im sorry if you find it offensive when I point out poor game play. I just feel it is slowly killing the game off.
I'm no angel and am guilty of the odd rant. But more than a few minutes of it is obsessive, more than 10 minutes of it is unhealthy (for both yourself and the game)
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: CptTrips on March 03, 2019, 06:47:46 PM
This is so true. In the old days I would take a tiffie up and bag a horde of easy kills, I think the best run I ever did was 35 (couple of rearms). There is no way I could do that these days.
Heh. Maybe ELO needs to be tracked in the melee. It could be used for a player-specific-ENY. The better the player, the more expensive high performance aircraft get for him. Some of these guys might end up in Vals. :D
That would at least help the newbies have a chance.
:cool:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: LilMak on March 03, 2019, 07:06:53 PM
Heh. Maybe ELO needs to be tracked in the melee. It could be used for a player-specific-ENY. The better the player, the more expensive high performance aircraft get for him. Some of these guys might end up Val. :D
That would at least help the newbies have a chance.
:cool:
Given how easy score is to manipulate, I doubt that would work. There are a ton of players who are better then me “on paper” but get owned when anything resembling an even fight ensues. Then you’d have a guy who is fundamentally weak getting destroyed and may cause him to leave because he can no longer compete.
At any rate, the newbies aren’t the problem. It’s the game play devolving too far down the path of least resistance. Which is human nature. The only one who can correct that is HT.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Oldman731 on March 03, 2019, 08:30:20 PM
It's still better than that these days, as far as piling on a country goes.
Stop it! You'll spoil the warm memories.
- oldman
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 04, 2019, 01:43:24 AM
I am never going to play this game again
I am not going to post anything on the forum
Your all poo and you all smell of wee
I might log on to SEC again for a bit and go into the MA for 10 minutes.
In fact ignore the first three
Shida trigger my apologises
(I no longer fly on Knights due to old time Alpha male insulting everyones game play, the usual type who log on every 6 months, i shot down 4 Knights in one sortie on my own which was a bit embarrasing, my apologies)
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: nrshida on March 04, 2019, 02:58:17 AM
When you rage quit, claiming you're leaving the forum for good ... only to come back to the forum to pizz, moan, criticize and judge from on high then your credibility is rather questionable.
Ah bless. Mr. Vindictive Stealth Troll Incarnate thinks he's got some leverage.
So point 1. I did not rage quit, that's just a pleasant fantasy of yours because you can't cope with critical or insulting comebacks even if they are true. Of all people I have to remind you if you can't take it you shouldn't dish it out, as the saying goes...
Point 2. I stopped flying the MA because in the time of the day / Timezone I have available to play there are on average 9-18 people online weekdays in the MA. All other arenas are now empty. Three quarters of those will either be hiding in bushes for extended periods in tanks, or milk running in bombers at 25k+ and if I'm lucky TechWrek, JimmyC & crew will be trying to take a base and I might get a fight which is mutually respectful and enjoyable. Usually later in the day or at the weekend J0ker's Jokers will start rolling their big mean fish finger production line machine - as per Dace's EXACT complaint (check the time slot). I can either try to hold them at bay single-handedly in a K-4 (with maybe one or two exceptions they can't stand dying and usually if they a co-e con they'll run off somewhere else) or just get vulched repeatedly while J0ker types 'pwnt' on channel 200. Either way I won't get a dogfight. The game of Aces High as I knew it has gone away from players on my Timezone*. So your comfortable go-to argument of 'you quit so you've got not'in to say' is way off. The game's dead for me and not by my choice. I wish it was different.
I did leave the forum in conjunction with leaving the MA planning to continue duelling friends and enemies in the MPA. My friends left to play other sims already. Blade was my only reliable enemy who lost interest once I'd found a technique to beat him reliably. Trying to host private arenas and the event of the introduction of AI to the MPA encouraged me to return / stay on the forum. Or perhaps I simply changed my mind. In any case, it's not for you to say who comes or goes and I pay no credibility to your informal fallacy of 'you once said this'. Like I offered you already three times, come and duel and you might even be able to overcome your own prejudices.
To the point of credibility: *We watched the process of decline, reported and were ignored (cos it wasn't your reality yet) and now see exactly the same process encroaching on US Primetime. You can choose to ignore / devalue / argumentum ad hominem until you're blue in the face if you like, but you cannot address or dismiss the points being made about gameplay. Of course lametard gameplay has always been present, like LilMak says, the reductive process reveals the dregs of gameplay and its influence PDQ.
The novelty of flying your I-16 out-numbered will wear off after several years (not that you have that, but...) where no matter how adept you become at ACM you will be nuetralised by ganging, ack-running, 88-mm, or the now pretty standard tactic that Caldera mentioned. My last Saturday in the MA I logged on in the morning to find a P-51D and a P-47 trying to drag people through their carrier's flak. When I logged in about 4 hours later to check there was any action the same two planes were doing exactly the same thing.
Face it: the RPS motif of the MA has been overcorrected to a communistic equality-of-outcome, participation medal arena by providing every possible way to avoid fighting and the prevailing in-arena culture now supports that too. Some RPS is good in balance with some competitive types. No balance, no sustainability.
I think that players who constantly complain about the game are causing people to leave and new players not to subscribe. when there's so many threads like this, new players will take one look and say what's the point.
This cannot be the case if you reason it through. That argument would depend on new players coming to the forum first - which I think they don't. All players of the game being forum members - which I think they aren't. And finally which came first? You suggest people complaining about the decline of gameplay have caused the decline of gameplay? This kind of thread might encourage existing players to examine the value of continuing, is that what you're trying to say? It should remain unspoken to keep the numbers artificially high rather than facing some harsh truths and trying to make the game sustainable again?
It’s the game play devolving too far down the path of least resistance. Which is human nature. The only one who can correct that is HT.
Yes I think you are right.
I also agree with Fugitive. Responding to trolling comments or weak arguments notwithstanding I see no point trying to initiate a constructive discussion anymore. Those remaining on this forum have no will or a profound inability or wish to adapt or be receptive to any kind of change. With Skuzzy's retirement I have to wonder if Mr. HiTech will simply ride out the dwindling subscriptions into retirement himself. Go fly his RV8 grinning like a monkey. Can't say I'd blame him.
Thanks all the same Dale (if I may be so bold), for a great game. I really learned a lot :salute
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: ccvi on March 04, 2019, 03:32:33 AM
Remember the 'good old days'? For the first ~7 years two countries ganging on one was even encouraged by the rules. For the newer players (or those vets who forgot), the war was over when one country lost by having less than a certain percentage of the bases. The winner was simply determined by which country had captured the most of the losers bases.
Was my understanding of the mechanics so bad back then?
I'm relatively sure it was not capture of most bases of the losing country, but simply owning most bases, regardless who owned them initially. I don't think the concept of initial ownership mattered. No strat zones, so all fields were equal. Nor were there uncapturable bases, allowing countries to capture others and lose all of their original bases, totally changing the map.
Also, I think I remember it wasn't a percentage but fixed number of fields remaining to end the war (that setting still exists). And then memory becomes clouded, but that number might have been 0 for some time, with insane fights for the last field. But maybe the with higher numbers they were as insane as I remember when fighting over the last of 4 fields down to 3.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Lusche on March 04, 2019, 06:43:46 AM
Was my understanding of the mechanics so bad back then?
No, it was quite good. :)
Quote
I'm relatively sure it was not capture of most bases of the losing country, but simply owning most bases, regardless who owned them initially.
In AH I it was this way. I am relatively sure it was "most captured fields of the losing country", but I would have to look it up again to be sure. But then, the effects would be very similar.
Quote
No strat zones, so all fields were equal. Nor were there uncapturable bases, allowing countries to capture others and lose all of their original bases, totally changing the map.
Yes, that's how it's been.
Quote
Also, I think I remember it wasn't a percentage but fixed number of fields remaining to end the war (that setting still exists). And then memory becomes clouded, but that number might have been 0 for some time, with insane fights for the last field. But maybe the with higher numbers they were as insane as I remember when fighting over the last of 4 fields down to 3.
You are right, it wasn't a percentage but a fixed number . Early in AH I it was a single field, later on this number was raised to three fields.
This often made for extremely intense last stands, especially as you couldn't just raid a remote Vbase to win the war. I personally liked it very much, I even switched to Knights permanently because they were so greatly outnumbered all the time... but for many players that simply sucked. Losing the war all the time, fighting massive odds again and again can get old quickly, especially when the only alternative would be becoming part of the horde.
IMHO the change to the current system was a good one for the game (except for the random raid on a remote, unimportant port or VBase to win the war.)
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 04, 2019, 07:00:20 AM
Fantastic reply from Shida :)
I agree with him but then again i dont :rofl
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: SysError on March 04, 2019, 07:53:40 AM
I have lost my ability to follow this discussion. And I went to college. I think. :confused:
(BTW: I don’t necessarily disagree with most of the OP.)
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: potsNpans on March 04, 2019, 09:30:30 AM
The OP's complaint of 1/3 side engaged with another 1/3 who both ignore the 3rd' 1/3. Timing is every thing in this business. Fugi' maybe you could of led a mission or two to get their attention, nothing like stepping on a few toes every now and then. Guess this should be in the wish category. Salute Gents, and may the winds never lift your skirt.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 04, 2019, 09:45:12 AM
"I did not rage quit" (You just remind us constantly that you're not a happy customer. AAMOF, you're not a customer at all.)
Like I offered you already three times, come and duel and you might even be able to overcome your own prejudices. (My prejudice is against those who post here to teach everyone else a lesson they don't need and, ironically, can't take the criticism they want to believe only others are incapable of taking.) :D
The novelty of flying your I-16 out-numbered will wear off after several years .... (Don't presume. What I described is precisely the type of novelty that's fed my inner joy since my first day in AW to now (23 yrs of fun and counting). Someday there won't be an AH, true, and there likely won't be a suitable substitute. Those of us who really connect with the game will mourn its passing with genuine sincerity while 'enlightened' people like you go on to 'save' other games.
Dueling is not the Mecca of ACM 'philosophy' you pretend it to be. AAMOF, it's the mere beginning of understanding. And working one's way up the dueling ladder (and back down) doesn't really make for a superior perspective into what Aces High is all about. Ironically, the full measure of learning comes in the MA that you appear to detest so. Its where you begin to apply your dance moves to situations that aren't equal and fair. I'm sorry your timezone/job/responsibilities prevent/inconvenience you from enjoying the MA (or any arena) during a population uptick. I can't help you there. I'm glad you have the MPA to duel in to your heart's content and friends that'll feed you in your waking/active hours.
Now .... (that I've typed enough characters to almost bore you as much as you do me) .... the real crux of my viewpoint, regarding the wonder of you:
Your return to the forum doesn't bother me as much as the chip you can't brush off your shoulder every time you come back. You aren't the AH Messiah and you're not saving anyone. Your 'insight' comes off as a childish and resentful backhand and is quite a bit more 'trollish' than any response it earns. Have a nice day .... 'sensai.' ;)
What a waste of my time. :cool:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 04, 2019, 10:59:01 AM
I have lost my ability to follow this discussion. And I went to college. I think. :confused:
(BTW: I don’t necessarily disagree with most of the OP.)
I disagree totally with this statement :old:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Gman on March 04, 2019, 11:57:08 AM
Fugitive, you're complaining about there not being enough fights and players running from you, and yet you're upset that "ganging" and outnumbered fights happen....?
The primary problem I have with your posts on this subject matter Fugitive is that you say one thing and have done completely the other. I've saved a film for a few years now, I think I'll post it today to demonstrate exactly what I mean.
I hadn't flown in 6 months a few years back, decided to jump in, grabbed a K4, got a few kills in the first hop, and was on the way home at 200 feet with a smoking engine, no aileron, no elevator. Dodged a couple low alt Spits about 5 miles from home, had almost made it, and then you came down from over 12k and got me about a couple miles from home. NBD, threw you a salute, you returned it. I grabbed an LA7 and launched after you as you had turned for home.
About 10 miles out I starting catching you, and we ran into a friendly (to me) Spit returning to the base I'd just left. I stayed out of your fight with him, between 5 at 6.0 distance, you both on my 9/3 while you fought for a couple minutes. You won. I then turned towards you. You started bee lining for your home base. When it became obvious to you I wasn't letting you go and was running you down, at 3.0 you turned. First turn after merge I killed you.
You went absolutely BERSERK on 200. Again, I still have the film. Called me every name in the book, yet I'd behaved exactly how you demand players should in these posts of yours, while you had just done the precise opposite to me, again, without any complaint from me to you.
Hypocrisy. That's why people dislike these posts, every player in here has "ganged" someone at sometime, or flown in some manner not deemed "worthy" by others - yet you place yourself on this high ground while disparaging others for what you have done, and likely STILL do yourself, you just don't see it.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: FLS on March 04, 2019, 12:37:18 PM
Im just thinking that players who run and avoid fights in a FIGHTING game should be bad for business. Ganging players in a fighting should be bad for business. 2 teams ganging one should be bad for business. All things that cause players to log off and in the case of many new players NEVER return. Players leaving IS bad for business.
Now do whining and complaining and it's affect on business.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Wiley on March 04, 2019, 12:42:12 PM
I still think it should be something along the lines of a team MUST take a base from the second team for each two bases they take from the first team.
Explain again how that would prevent the "attempt horde on undefended base - meet resistance - disappear to try again at another undefended base" loop that is standard procedure, regardless of which front it's on.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 04, 2019, 01:05:22 PM
I think i am permanently banned from 200
Not sure really
Fugitive look at me funny the other day :old:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vraciu on March 04, 2019, 01:09:36 PM
Dueling is not the Mecca of ACM 'philosophy' you pretend it to be. AAMOF, it's the mere beginning of understanding. And working one's way up the dueling ladder (and back down) doesn't really make for a superior perspective into what Aces High is all about. Ironically, the full measure of learning comes in the MA that you appear to detest so. Its where you begin to apply your dance moves to situations that aren't equal and fair. I'm sorry your timezone/job/responsibilities prevent/inconvenience you from enjoying the MA (or any arena) during a population uptick. I can't help you there. I'm glad you have the MPA to duel in to your heart's content and friends that'll feed you in your waking/active hours.
Now .... (that I've typed enough characters to almost bore you as much as you do me) .... the real crux of my viewpoint, regarding the wonder of you:
Your return to the forum doesn't bother me as much as the chip you can't brush off your shoulder every time you come back. You aren't the AH Messiah and you're not saving anyone. Your 'insight' comes off as a childish and resentful backhand and is quite a bit more 'trollish' than any response it earns. Have a nice day .... 'sensai.' ;)
Only you keep asserting I claim to be an ACM 'philosopher', that I seek to be worshipped, have the answer for everything, pretend this, claim that, think I'm a Messiah, have a chip on my shoulder, want to be recognised, am angry I don't get recognition etcetera etcetera. You seem a bit nuts or obsessed to be honest with this line of thought. Your subjective perception is not reality. You'd think you'd not have to point that out to someone in higher education.
Your 'insight' of how ACM fits into the experience of Aces High and the MA is in equal parts as uninformed and prejudiced as the rest of your comments. Rather sounds like a complex misdirection to devalue actually fighting and get out of a duel after you've shot your mouth off. I thought that was a Texan concept? Ironic.
Like I told you, if you really want to work out your pent up aggressions towards me then 1-on-1 me. That's the only vector you have through the context of Aces High and the only meaningful way to 'teach me a lesson'. Your trolling is completely impotent.
Strange then, how you seem utterly compelled to respond, troll or simply insult in any thread I contribute to or especially speak my mind.
Let's be honest shall we. It's not a mystery to me why you can't restrain yourself from wasting YOUR time. I clearly trigger you to the stops. That's a product of your cultural conditioning, rigidity, intolerance and inability to take an insult while simultaneously handing them out. Each post wreaks of mouth-foaming hatred in escalation until you bow out because you realise you've made a fool of yourself. I feel rather sorry for you actually.
And you still presume to condescend while claiming composure, ethical or philosophical superiority. How? Your analytical skills suck, you can't refraining from trolling. You can't be respectful or civil or even address valid and relevant points. You have no moral high ground to claim and nothing to sell.
Do you have anything fresh to offer?
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: ccvi on March 04, 2019, 02:25:25 PM
I personally liked it very much, I even switched to Knights permanently because they were so greatly outnumbered all the time...
That can't be true. The country continuously outnumbered was rooks. I'm quite sure, because I was flying rook when I joined. The one exception was RJO, which was only introduced later, and only showed its full effect outside of typical EU primetime.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: ccvi on March 04, 2019, 02:29:55 PM
Ok, maybe let's not look back but forward.
Could there be an ENY-factor like for OBJ-factor? ENY looks at player numbers, and provides factors for perk cost and perk points gained. The OBJ-factor could look at fields owned, and increase the value (perk points earned) of stuff destroyed of bigger countries.
Furballers go where they think they might fight a furball. For many players interested in actually playing the game's defined team objective, this might be an incentive to do the right thing.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Lusche on March 04, 2019, 02:34:47 PM
That can't be true. The country continuously outnumbered was rooks. I'm quite sure, because I was flying rook when I joined.
You joined a few years before the scenario I described, which happened in 2006. Rooks were hording big time by then, the LCA was a huge multi-squad alliance.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 04, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
So we all agree AH is Awesome
I am awesome as well :rofl
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Copprhed on March 04, 2019, 03:32:05 PM
Could there be an ENY-factor like for OBJ-factor? ENY looks at player numbers, and provides factors for perk cost and perk points gained. The OBJ-factor could look at fields owned, and increase the value (perk points earned) of stuff destroyed of bigger countries.
More details to the wish: While the ENY-factor considers all 3 counters, the OBJ-factor should only consider the 2 enemy countries (i.e., 6 different factors - one for each enemy of the 2 enemies of each of the 3 countries).
A very simple factor could be: <number of fields owned by the enemy some object is destroyed of> divided by <number of fields owned by the other enemy>. If both enemies have the same number of fields, its 1.0. If one enemy has twice as many fields as the other enemy, killing stuff yields twice as many points, and only half the points for destroying stuff of the smaller enemy.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: LilMak on March 04, 2019, 05:04:03 PM
I think most of the fixes are easy. Make bases easier to take. (Yes I said that) Do so by bringing the radar up some so you can actually pull off an NOE that isn’t over water. Take away the 88s that players spend hours in but accomplishing next to nothing. And remove the ability to re-supply towns.
Maps may get rolled quicker but there will certainly be mor active participants in player vs player combat. Which is what I pay for.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Wiley on March 04, 2019, 05:11:04 PM
I think most of the fixes are easy. Make bases easier to take. (Yes I said that) Do so by bringing the radar up some so you can actually pull off an NOE that isn’t over water. Take away the 88s that players spend hours in but accomplishing next to nothing. And remove the ability to re-supply towns.
You think they would up into the vulch? What about that scenario makes you think the defending side would do anything other than up some wirbles/osties? How would that be materially better than the 88s?
Quote
Maps may get rolled quicker but there will certainly be mor active participants in player vs player combat. Which is what I pay for.
Do you not remember the days of pretty much undefended NOE whack-a-mole?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: LilMak on March 04, 2019, 07:09:23 PM
Wirbs and Ostis are fighting vehicles and much more effective than the 88. The 88 is little more than anemic puffy ack. I can’t remember the last time one killed me. But the players parked in them are relentless in their pursuit of that one magic BB. To the point they will spend 20-30-40 minutes hitting nothing. Which wouldn’t bother me if there were more players in the arena. Heck, as a former artilleryman I was all for their addition to the game. But now that I see the results, I’m no longer a fan.
And I do remember whack-a-mole. But the radar settings were @ 500 feet or so and a friendly getting in icon range them didn’t paint the whole screen red with dots. And I’m not proposing that the radar settings go back to that but somewhere in between then and now. At least you’d have some people in planes flying low which might actually draw a fight. Vs now when you have zero fight or 10 guys from 15K+ doing the seagull thing.
As far as upping into a vulch. Either you do or you don’t. Nothing I mentioned changes that one bit.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Shuffler on March 04, 2019, 09:36:10 PM
Wirbs and Ostis are fighting vehicles and much more effective than the 88. The 88 is little more than anemic puffy ack. I can’t remember the last time one killed me. But the players parked in them are relentless in their pursuit of that one magic BB. To the point they will spend 20-30-40 minutes hitting nothing. Which wouldn’t bother me if there were more players in the arena. Heck, as a former artilleryman I was all for their addition to the game. But now that I see the results, I’m no longer a fan.
And I do remember whack-a-mole. But the radar settings were @ 500 feet or so and a friendly getting in icon range them didn’t paint the whole screen red with dots. And I’m not proposing that the radar settings go back to that but somewhere in between then and now. At least you’d have some people in planes flying low which might actually draw a fight. Vs now when you have zero fight or 10 guys from 15K+ doing the seagull thing.
As far as upping into a vulch. Either you do or you don’t. Nothing I mentioned changes that one bit.
I take it you can't hit anything with an 88. :D
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: 1stpar3 on March 05, 2019, 02:42:11 AM
I think most of the fixes are easy. Make bases easier to take. (Yes I said that) Do so by bringing the radar up some so you can actually pull off an NOE that isn’t over water. Take away the 88s that players spend hours in but accomplishing next to nothing. And remove the ability to re-supply towns.
Maps may get rolled quicker but there will certainly be mor active participants in player vs player combat. Which is what I pay for.
Thats a fairly good idea!? Would require a bigger response...IF the base was wanting to be saved. Unfortunately I believe this would just end up being a "Griping Point" in which those who havent yet complained...find their voices. Lets face it...any thing changed will always garner its fair share of detractors :uhoh This is STILL the best experience(in this genre) as compared to other games! Embrace the differences and just PLAY THE GAME! Where else can you go? Some times...you need to be the "Change" ourselves! The game has changed...SURE, but IMHO changing WITH THE GAME, beats out "Griping about the changes". It is still the BEST out there, so why trash it at every turn? :headscratch:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: ccvi on March 06, 2019, 02:05:36 AM
GVs defending a base are horrible. Compare:
With no GVs fighters having established air superiority can maintain this even with a relatively large nuber of fighters coming in to defend, certainly long enough to ensure capture.
With GVs fighters can't. Bombers can't. There's just too limited ordinance in the air. And that in combination with spawn points suitable for defence within 3 minutes of driving, and people in GVs having no problem dieing repeatedly, in contrast to defenders who usually don't like to be vulched.
As soon as there's 5 or more defenders a huge number of attackers is required for a successful capture.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: 1stpar3 on March 06, 2019, 03:06:34 AM
With no GVs fighters having established air superiority can maintain this even with a relatively large nuber of fighters coming in to defend, certainly long enough to ensure capture.
With GVs fighters can't. Bombers can't. There's just too limited ordinance in the air. And that in combination with spawn points suitable for defence within 3 minutes of driving, and people in GVs having no problem dieing repeatedly, in contrast to defenders who usually don't like to be vulched.
As soon as there's 5 or more defenders a huge number of attackers is required for a successful capture.
Thus more "combat", well lots of "Red Guys" concentrated and waiting to be killed! Sure, makes it harder to "Win Ze WAR"....but combat is the name of the game,right?
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Max on March 06, 2019, 06:47:03 AM
What you say about age related losses might be true, but I have seen the number creeping up not declining the last few months. I do see the same doomsayers here every time I log on though. I would love to see them leave other than continually complaining about the game.
Take a look around you. How many players have we lost in the last six months to essentially age-related illnesses in addition to those that have left giving good reasons for doing so.
All you lot can seem to come up with is "If you don't like it leave". Genius :)
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: nrshida on March 07, 2019, 02:16:20 AM
What you say about age related losses might be true, but I have seen the number creeping up not declining the last few months. I do see the same doomsayers here every time I log on though. I would love to see them leave other than continually complaining about the game.
I conversely see the same naysayers poo-pooing any constructive suggestion or appeal for change with conservative, poorly-observed analysis. I would love to see them realise that if it ain't broke don't fix it only applies when it ain't broke.
That makes us both dreamers Rvflyer.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: FESS67 on March 07, 2019, 03:05:44 AM
. I would love to see them realise that if it ain't broke don't fix it only applies when it ain't broke.
Also worth pointing out that even if it ain’t broke does not mean you should not improve it!!
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: flippz on March 07, 2019, 08:00:37 AM
so Thursday am I log in about 7:45am est. bish have 14 (including me) rooks 7 and knights 5. map has been up less than an hour (riftval map). bish had pushed to about 12% knight fields with rooks attacking the knight front. I change to knights thinking I will get some fights in the air (as most mornings until about 11am are spent fighting ground guns and wirbs). NOPE less than 20 mins laters all but me and oldcoot was left on the knight side. 2 against 17. so now I have a choice as I am stuck for 6 hours and nothing to do. 262s cost less than 40 perkies I upped a few but it was pointless. tried ground guns as the bish was deacking fields so as to not be able to up fighters. twice I launched from back base but to no avail as I arrived the field was all ready captured or soon after arriving was lost. after about 10 sorties of various planes and tactics I just logged off. I mean even if bish started attacking rooks, with 2 people left on what are we gonna do? they could leave behind 2 guys and still have a worthy horde as to continue to roll bases on the rook front and defend against loosing any on the knight front.
gameplay really needs to be looked at. I mean as a new player coming to an environment like that even if I got off the ground I wouldn't stay. as a player looking for something other than the "win" I wouldn't stay. the numbers this am really show the dissolvement of the game play.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 07, 2019, 08:29:07 AM
so Thursday am I log in about 7:45am est. bish have 14 (including me) rooks 7 and knights 5. map has been up less than an hour (riftval map). bish had pushed to about 12% knight fields with rooks attacking the knight front. I change to knights thinking I will get some fights in the air (as most mornings until about 11am are spent fighting ground guns and wirbs). NOPE less than 20 mins laters all but me and oldcoot was left on the knight side. 2 against 17. so now I have a choice as I am stuck for 6 hours and nothing to do. 262s cost less than 40 perkies I upped a few but it was pointless. tried ground guns as the bish was deacking fields so as to not be able to up fighters. twice I launched from back base but to no avail as I arrived the field was all ready captured or soon after arriving was lost. after about 10 sorties of various planes and tactics I just logged off. I mean even if bish started attacking rooks, with 2 people left on what are we gonna do? they could leave behind 2 guys and still have a worthy horde as to continue to roll bases on the rook front and defend against loosing any on the knight front.
gameplay really needs to be looked at. I mean as a new player coming to an environment like that even if I got off the ground I wouldn't stay. as a player looking for something other than the "win" I wouldn't stay. the numbers this am really show the dissolvement of the game play.
Is Thursday! Everyone has been working all Damn day and dont have time during the week to log on. :old:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Spikes on March 07, 2019, 11:12:14 AM
so Thursday am I log in about 7:45am est. bish have 14 (including me) rooks 7 and knights 5. map has been up less than an hour (riftval map). bish had pushed to about 12% knight fields with rooks attacking the knight front. I change to knights thinking I will get some fights in the air (as most mornings until about 11am are spent fighting ground guns and wirbs). NOPE less than 20 mins laters all but me and oldcoot was left on the knight side. 2 against 17. so now I have a choice as I am stuck for 6 hours and nothing to do. 262s cost less than 40 perkies I upped a few but it was pointless. tried ground guns as the bish was deacking fields so as to not be able to up fighters. twice I launched from back base but to no avail as I arrived the field was all ready captured or soon after arriving was lost. after about 10 sorties of various planes and tactics I just logged off. I mean even if bish started attacking rooks, with 2 people left on what are we gonna do? they could leave behind 2 guys and still have a worthy horde as to continue to roll bases on the rook front and defend against loosing any on the knight front.
gameplay really needs to be looked at. I mean as a new player coming to an environment like that even if I got off the ground I wouldn't stay. as a player looking for something other than the "win" I wouldn't stay. the numbers this am really show the dissolvement of the game play.
That's my biggest issue, I would not mind switching more often, but if the fight dies or that side becomes the more populated one, I'm stuck there for 6 more hours.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: flippz on March 07, 2019, 03:35:42 PM
That's my biggest issue, I would not mind switching more often, but if the fight dies or that side becomes the more populated one, I'm stuck there for 6 more hours.
Don’t bother switching. You get called a spy and a cheater for 5 hours as the team continues to loose bases then others drag fighters to you as you try to bomb a town for them. Then when the base take fails your incited by quotes like why don’t you get the f&:;@ off our side. So again don’t bother switching.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Max on March 07, 2019, 03:41:59 PM
That's my biggest issue, I would not mind switching more often, but if the fight dies or that side becomes the more populated one, I'm stuck there for 6 more hours.
This.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 07, 2019, 04:51:57 PM
That's my biggest issue, I would not mind switching more often, but if the fight dies or that side becomes the more populated one, I'm stuck there for 6 more hours.
+1. Side switch times should be determined based on #s on each side. Or 3 hours is a much more reasonable time. It sucks switching only for the tide to change 20 minutes later. Sometimes it's too hard to tell which team is winning because there is only 1 red dar in a sector.
Don’t bother switching. You get called a spy and a cheater for 5 hours as the team continues to loose bases then others drag fighters to you as you try to bomb a town for them. Then when the base take fails your incited by quotes like why don’t you get the f&:;@ off our side. So again don’t bother switching.
One guy tried to call me a spy while I killed the C47 coming to steal their base and landed with 6 kills. After I told him I did that, he still told me to go back to the other country. I proceeded to tell him to Bite me. What you think he did after that? Nothing. :old:
Don't be afraid to tell them to shove it.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: puller on March 07, 2019, 05:46:44 PM
Flippz = Haxxor
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: FLOOB on March 07, 2019, 06:58:46 PM
Side switchers should get doxed!
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: SPKmes on March 08, 2019, 12:38:41 AM
Thus more "combat", well lots of "Red Guys" concentrated and waiting to be killed! Sure, makes it harder to "Win Ze WAR"....but combat is the name of the game,right?
The combat mainly consist of visiting home to pick up more bombs for more GVs.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Max on March 08, 2019, 06:51:30 AM
Nice flyin! Whick stick do you use? Very smooth :joystick:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: novice on March 08, 2019, 07:24:03 AM
I was there defending v46 had a blast as well. On other topic, Yeah it suks being ganged but the no one complains when the shoe is on the other foot. Fighting overwhelming force requires diff tactics , you can only do so much fighting 10:1 odds. What makes my blood boil is ppl jumping in on my fight. After 5 min of turnfighting you have this guy on the deck and where you want him only for a uninvited friendly to swoop in and kill him. Two nights ago I took damage because of this and the killshooter. Ohh how I like to be able to shoot friendlies sometimes...
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: SPKmes on March 08, 2019, 12:44:24 PM
Nice flyin! Whick stick do you use? Very smooth :joystick:
Thrustmaster T16000 ... I went through many cheap sticks before I came across this one (NZ has a very poor supply of this type of thing....online sure but I'm a... i'm going to get one now person...oh and did I mention... cheap too hahahaha) this is hands down the best stick ...bang for buck that is.... it is getting a little loose on it and I think the film process calms things down because it sure doesn't feel as smooth when it is happening real time hahaha
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: ACE on March 08, 2019, 03:59:34 PM
Fugitive, you're complaining about there not being enough fights and players running from you, and yet you're upset that "ganging" and outnumbered fights happen....?
The primary problem I have with your posts on this subject matter Fugitive is that you say one thing and have done completely the other. I've saved a film for a few years now, I think I'll post it today to demonstrate exactly what I mean.
I hadn't flown in 6 months a few years back, decided to jump in, grabbed a K4, got a few kills in the first hop, and was on the way home at 200 feet with a smoking engine, no aileron, no elevator. Dodged a couple low alt Spits about 5 miles from home, had almost made it, and then you came down from over 12k and got me about a couple miles from home. NBD, threw you a salute, you returned it. I grabbed an LA7 and launched after you as you had turned for home.
About 10 miles out I starting catching you, and we ran into a friendly (to me) Spit returning to the base I'd just left. I stayed out of your fight with him, between 5 at 6.0 distance, you both on my 9/3 while you fought for a couple minutes. You won. I then turned towards you. You started bee lining for your home base. When it became obvious to you I wasn't letting you go and was running you down, at 3.0 you turned. First turn after merge I killed you.
You went absolutely BERSERK on 200. Again, I still have the film. Called me every name in the book, yet I'd behaved exactly how you demand players should in these posts of yours, while you had just done the precise opposite to me, again, without any complaint from me to you.
Hypocrisy. That's why people dislike these posts, every player in here has "ganged" someone at sometime, or flown in some manner not deemed "worthy" by others - yet you place yourself on this high ground while disparaging others for what you have done, and likely STILL do yourself, you just don't see it.
This. This right here is it.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: FESS67 on March 09, 2019, 01:06:47 AM
I was trying to fight today. EVERY single....note <single> fight I got into ended up in a RUN to HELP fight. NOT ONE OF THEM BACKED THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I was 51 V 51 so not an imbalance.
So, you want me to get a D9 or 51 and just pick....sure I can do that. Not much fun though and if everyone does that pretty soon you have RACESHIGH (thanks to a squaddie for that tag)
There is an issue. People just do not want to fight and there is an issue, there is no need for them to do so.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vraciu on March 09, 2019, 01:08:09 AM
I was trying to fight today. EVERY single....note <single> fight I got into ended up in a RUN to HELP fight. NOT ONE OF THEM BACKED THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I was 51 V 51 so not an imbalance.
So, you want me to get a D9 or 51 and just pick....sure I can do that. Not much fun though and if everyone does that pretty soon you have RACESHIGH (thanks to a squaddie for that tag)
There is an issue. People just do not want to fight and there is an issue, there is no need for them to do so.
Shhhhh. Don’t let Buster hear you or we will get ten pages about making maps for people to hide from combat.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: 1stpar3 on March 09, 2019, 01:15:41 AM
I was trying to fight today. EVERY single....note <single> fight I got into ended up in a RUN to HELP fight. NOT ONE OF THEM BACKED THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I was 51 V 51 so not an imbalance.
So, you want me to get a D9 or 51 and just pick....sure I can do that. Not much fun though and if everyone does that pretty soon you have RACESHIGH (thanks to a squaddie for that tag)
There is an issue. People just do not want to fight and there is an issue, there is no need for them to do so.
I see this at times myself..fly a plane EXACTLY how you are supposed to...BAD(at least you catch more grief that way). Was an HONOR to DA with you last night :rock True as per some opinions...I am training for something non existent/or rarely will find....But DAM, THAT WAS FUN! Never really fly the Pony like that...was impressive Sir! :salute
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: FESS67 on March 09, 2019, 01:37:04 AM
I see this at times myself..fly a plane EXACTLY how you are supposed to...BAD(at least you catch more grief that way). Was an HONOR to DA with you last night :rock True as per some opinions...I am training for something non existent/or rarely will find....But DAM, THAT WAS FUN! Never really fly the Pony like that...was impressive Sir! :salute
Our DA session was good. You were this |_| far from beating me every fight. was a lot of fun. Next time we get on vox and work a few tweaks out. One of those fights you totally had me but you did not recognise it and made the wrong move.
Everyone thinks I will get back in the DA and brag I kicked yo ass.....not my style. DA is fun and a learning zone IMO. ~S~
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Max on March 09, 2019, 07:24:26 AM
Thrustmaster T16000 ... I went through many cheap sticks before I came across this one (NZ has a very poor supply of this type of thing....online sure but I'm a... i'm going to get one now person...oh and did I mention... cheap too hahahaha) this is hands down the best stick ...bang for buck that is.... it is getting a little loose on it and I think the film process calms things down because it sure doesn't feel as smooth when it is happening real time hahaha
You use default scaling? I bought a T16000 about 18 months ago and paired it with my Ch Throttle. Given the fact I've been using a CH Fighterstick since 2002, I had a HUGE problem deciding what to map where, and the muscle memory which was so ingrained from years of Fighterstick usage. I did find the T16000 to be very smooth, tho a bit tighter in "throw arc".
You mind tell me what your button/hat assignments are? :salute
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: bustr on March 09, 2019, 05:13:35 PM
Seventeen years of this game and the game play being complained about is how the majority of customers choose to play the game in the MA. Does not matter the terrain, that's how they utilize the space. For those same seventeen years a minority of players have complained to Hitech that the majority of customers playing the game not by a narrow definition based on furballing and ACM are killing the game, and will put him out of business. The dire predictions of Hitech going out of business parallel the global scam pseudo religion of human derived planet warming that is supposed to end the world some time maybe possibly but, everyone has to get with the hysteria and change everything or else. Just like our own prognosticators of doom based on the persistent religious like faith they have in their crystal balls.
Over the last seventeen years the game is still here while the crystal ball clutchers are gone and Hitech's customers are still playing the game the way they want to. I thought the crystal ball clutchers received their rapture becasue Hitech created a second totally free game for furballing and ACM called War Online:Pacific. It has no capture the flag component, a 5mile diameter arena, and no place to hide. Seems that was what the DA was supposed to do for the crystall ball clutchers to address their dire warnings or threats of doom years ago.
What happened, didn't heaven work out while everyone else stayed behind in the MA and played the game their way?
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: TheBug on March 09, 2019, 08:13:02 PM
Seventeen years of this game and the game play being complained about is how the majority of customers choose to play the game in the MA. Does not matter the terrain, that's how they utilize the space. For those same seventeen years a minority of players have complained to Hitech that the majority of customers playing the game not by a narrow definition based on furballing and ACM are killing the game, and will put him out of business. The dire predictions of Hitech going out of business parallel the global scam pseudo religion of human derived planet warming that is supposed to end the world some time maybe possibly but, everyone has to get with the hysteria and change everything or else. Just like our own prognosticators of doom based on the persistent religious like faith they have in their crystal balls.
Over the last seventeen years the game is still here while the crystal ball clutchers are gone and Hitech's customers are still playing the game the way they want to. I thought the crystal ball clutchers received their rapture becasue Hitech created a second totally free game for furballing and ACM called War Online:Pacific. It has no capture the flag component, a 5mile diameter arena, and no place to hide. Seems that was what the DA was supposed to do for the crystall ball clutchers to address their dire warnings or threats of doom years ago.
What happened, didn't heaven work out while everyone else stayed behind in the MA and played the game their way?
(Nobody wants this game to succeed more than I do, but...)
Yeah. We have waiting periods to get into the arenas and all...
:rolleyes:
Nobody wants a five mile ring. That’s not the solution. Dogfighting has to have context. WOP is a glorified DA, in essence. The one thing is that by being free it might hook some customers. Let’s hope so.
No, WOP isn’t the answer. People want action in an open world environment. Hiders and runners have bored thousands of players to tears. The latter have left as a result. Bury your head in the sand on this point all you wish.
Thankfully the radar tweak has made finding fights easier and numbers appear to be rising, despite the stuck-pig whining and hysteria when it was being tested.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Oldman731 on March 09, 2019, 09:07:25 PM
Thankfully the radar tweak has made finding fights easier and numbers appear to be rising, despite the stuck-pig whining and hysteria when it was being tested.
And this is a very useful observation. The radar experiment resulted in more fights, at the expense of the goal-oriented crowd. The pendulum swings, the numbers rise. There's a lesson.
- oldman
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: FESS67 on March 09, 2019, 10:06:38 PM
And this is a very useful observation. The radar experiment resulted in more fights, at the expense of the goal-oriented crowd. The pendulum swings, the numbers rise. There's a lesson.
- oldman
Yeah it very much a pendulum that is almost impossible to pick. I like some aspects of the current dar but I see issues with it as well. There is no surprise element anymore and that is IMO not good. But I love the fact I can see where the enemy is. Then again, I hate the fact that they can see me...lol no more sneak attacks. I even use dar to handle multi con fights as I can see who is pointing at me and who is not. That is not good.
I have no idea what the perfect balance is. C47 IMO should be invisible to all forms of dar. Sight only, like the old days. Fighters, yeah show them all and bring it on. Buffs....hmmm...only those over 5k.
No, this is not historically accurate but I think the sooner we get over the history crap and understand it is a game for fun I think creative minds can come up with creative, fun ideas
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: nrshida on March 10, 2019, 01:43:20 AM
For those same seventeen years a minority of players have complained to Hitech that the majority of customers playing the game not by a narrow definition based on furballing and ACM are killing the game
That's incorrect I think they were mostly saying that ACM is also a necessary component. Big hint: balance.
Just like our own prognosticators of doom based on the persistent religious like faith they have in their crystal balls.
Prognostication would be something like: 'Arlo will now jump to your defence because he'll be triggered by his Marvel Comics Book of Ethics regarding protecting the weak & innocent from malevolent un-American elements'. Discssing why the game is in decline prompted by observably fewer players does not necessitate a crystal ball and can be similarly verified by anyone left with any objectivity at all.
Over the last seventeen years the game is still here
That could be attributable to other factors than the 'any critical comment is incorrect' that you are implying, such as holding a niche in the market, especially loyal customer base, being the only American game available etc. It's not relevant if it's still here right now, it's relevant if the exiting population is matched or exceeded by the incoming population. Process, not snapshot.
I thought the crystal ball clutchers received their rapture becasue Hitech created a second totally free game for furballing and ACM called War Online:Pacific. It has no capture the flag component, a 5mile diameter arena, and no place to hide. Seems that was what the DA was supposed to do for the crystall ball clutchers to address their dire warnings or threats of doom years ago.
From my own perspective Wo:P is exceedingly uninteresting because it's largely populated by AI and noobs, the flight model is dire and unchallenging (compared to what I've got used to), the planeset uninteresting. Further, HiTech has stated it was not pitched at existing AH players. So your implication is flawed at the core.
There could be spin off air combat-centric games that would be appealing where you could backwater the ACM-sharks and still get revenue. Weedling them out of the game also worked for those who can't stand paying $15 a month and still getting pwned. For HTC less so.
What happened, didn't heaven work out while everyone else stayed behind in the MA and played the game their way?
Referring to an earlier point: this 'everyone' you refer to are (with a decreasing number of exceptions) the remnants of the original AH population belonging to the 'Races High' faction (thanks for that Fess, I got a big laugh out of that) who demonstrably are avoidant of an equitable fight.
Hiders and runners have bored thousands of players to tears.
^ This, basically.
Yes we totally get it. Now that those who could out-fly you from disadvantage to killing you by employing witchcraft have almost been driven to extinction, your gameplay is more enjoyable than it has ever been. Bustr won't have his Spit8 out-turned by some elitist, gobby scum like nrshida flying a late-model 109 anymore. Fantastic. While you are having it all your own way, the game is now essentially functioning in a sealed and shrinking Virtual enclosure that no one else wants to join. Congratulations Bustr. You and your Harrison Bergeron utopians have won. And now, your prize...
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 10, 2019, 06:33:08 AM
Stop writing so many paragraphs :old:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Lusche on March 10, 2019, 08:34:46 AM
The pendulum swings, the numbers rise. There's a lesson.
I wouldn't be that quick with the conclusions, especially without sufficient data. AH had always a seasonal rise of numbers in the wintertime, even with overall declining long term numbers.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vraciu on March 10, 2019, 10:00:53 AM
Being 'too cool to listen' and being unable to retort because you got pwned are two different things.
Remaining customers - big difference.
That's incorrect I think they were mostly saying that ACM is also a necessary component. Big hint: balance.
Not privy to HTC's business statistics but the revenue is largely subscription-based there has to be a minimum number of subscriptions...
Prognostication would be something like: 'Arlo will now jump to your defence because he'll be triggered by his Marvel Comics Book of Ethics regarding protecting the weak & innocent from malevolent un-American elements'. Discssing why the game is in decline prompted by observably fewer players does not necessitate a crystal ball and can be similarly verified by anyone left with any objectivity at all.
That could be attributable to other factors than the 'any critical comment is incorrect' that you are implying, such as holding a niche in the market, especially loyal customer base, being the only American game available etc. It's not relevant if it's still here right now, it's relevant if the exiting population is matched or exceeded by the incoming population. Process, not snapshot.
From my own perspective Wo:P is exceedingly uninteresting because it's largely populated by AI and noobs, the flight model is dire and unchallenging (compared to what I've got used to), the planeset uninteresting. Further, HiTech has stated it was not pitched at existing AH players. So your implication is flawed at the core.
There could be spin off air combat-centric games that would be appealing where you could backwater the ACM-sharks and still get revenue. Weedling them out of the game also worked for those who can't stand paying $15 a month and still getting pwned. For HTC less so.
Referring to an earlier point: this 'everyone' you refer to are (with a decreasing number of exceptions) the remnants of the original AH population belonging to the 'Races High' faction (thanks for that Fess, I got a big laugh out of that) who demonstrably are avoidant of an equitable fight.
^ This, basically.
Yes we totally get it. Now that those who could out-fly you from disadvantage to killing you by employing witchcraft have almost been driven to extinction, your gameplay is more enjoyable than it has ever been. Bustr won't have his Spit8 out-turned by some elitist, gobby scum like nrshida flying a late-model 109 anymore. Fantastic. While you are having it all your own way, the game is now essentially functioning in a sealed and shrinking Virtual enclosure that no one else wants to join. Congratulations Bustr. You and your Harrison Bergeron utopians have won. And now, your prize...
This is an absolutely brilliant post. Kudos. :salute
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 10, 2019, 12:02:57 PM
For Gods sake!
Next post is going to be 45 paragraphs long :old:
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: FLS on March 10, 2019, 12:03:29 PM
If there was no fighter ranking or score in the MA, only GV, bombing, and attack scores, would game play change?
If fighter score and ranking was only recorded in the match arenas would there be more good fights?
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vraciu on March 10, 2019, 12:35:10 PM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vraciu on March 10, 2019, 12:35:59 PM
If there was no fighter ranking or score in the MA, only GV, bombing, and attack scores, would game play change?
If fighter score and ranking was only recorded in the match arenas would there be more good fights?
Nope.
The key is to revise eny so there are less late war runner planes. Perk planes have a considerable less usage. I personally don't understand how so many P51 pilots in here have such a hard time when they are in the one of the fastest and best E fighters in the game. That being said, just because the 190D, Spit16, and Yak3 don't have ord, there usage should be declined by adjusting their ENY. Too many of these planes have made the game play slow.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 10, 2019, 12:48:46 PM
The key is to revise eny so there are less late war runner planes. Perk planes have a considerable less usage. I personally don't understand how so many P51 pilots in here have such a hard time when they are in the one of the fastest and best E fighters in the game. That being said, just because the 190D, Spit16, and Yak3 don't have ord, there usage should be declined by adjusting their ENY. Too many of these planes have made the game play slow.
Most players don't want to train for air combat so some expert won't be bored. They just want to have fun playing a game.
There is no obligation to dogfight in the MA, just like there is no obligation to capture bases, or drive vehicles.
If you can't find a fight try being a more attractive target. :aok
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 10, 2019, 01:42:55 PM
Nothing does. All it does is cause people to fly scared. Get rid of it.
Not necessarily, dying after long flights causes people to fly scared. Timid flying mostly does not give you a good score unless in a tempest. Most people run becuase they don't know how to defend and end up flying planes that can escape easier. This effect puts more people in fast planes to counter. Faster planes = slower fights.
Score doesn't accurately measure skill. Take a minimal amount of sorties in vulch mode, with only late war monsters and a good score awaits.
Getting kills in a Hurri I should count more towards score than kills in a F4U-4 - if you want to use score to indicate skill.
Adding an ENY/kill category to the score would help, except for planes like the Yak-3 with their overly generous ENY values.
Only vulching for score is actually pretty risky. I wouldn't recommend it. Keeping a top 5 score the entire month does take skill and understanding of the game. The current score has many metrics that factor in ability. And gives players a chance to score high even if they can't play all of the time.
I do agree with you about eny/kill. It would add a great metric. if vracui's theory is correct, it would mean players would have to fly mid-early war planes to achieve a better score. Which would tie into my presumption about too many late war fast planes.
I would also suggest taking K/T out of attack score... No reason for that in attack mode.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vraciu on March 10, 2019, 02:10:53 PM
I would still fly the 51. Why? Because I don’t give a rip about score. I am here for the fight. I am measuring myself now against myself yesterday and last year. Public score displays cause egomaniacal whizzing contests and general acrimony for no real positive purpose.
Publish the top five and leave it at that. Show the top in each category during the tour without a name as a measuring stick if you must.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: caldera on March 10, 2019, 02:25:06 PM
Not necessarily, dying after long flights causes people to fly scared. Timid flying mostly does not give you a good score unless in a tempest. Most people run becuase they don't know how to defend and end up flying planes that can escape easier. This effect puts more people in fast planes to counter. Faster planes = slower fights.
Only vulching for score is actually pretty risky. I wouldn't recommend it. Keeping a top 5 score the entire month does take skill and understanding of the game. The current score has many metrics that factor in ability. And gives players a chance to score high even if they can't play all of the time.
I do agree with you about eny/kill. It would add a great metric. if vracui's theory is correct, it would mean players would have to fly mid-early war planes to achieve a better score. Which would tie into my presumption about too many late war fast planes.
I would also suggest taking K/T out of attack score... No reason for that in attack mode.
Flying in vulch mode was perhaps a poorly worded generalization. I meant flying in low risk/high reward situations. For instance, if a NOE bomber raid comes in, getting 4-6 kills (or more) in quick succession and a safe landing. Or picking off suckers from low flying friendly bombers used as bait. Or CV combat air patrol.
These situations can result in high K/H and K/S if using a late war monster. Notice that most of the top score people primarily fly in attack mode and save fighter sorties for situations like mentioned above. Pretty sure I could get a top 5 fighter rank if I wanted but could also name 50 players that are better.
There are some score guys that are quite good, but score mostly shows who wanted to be the "best" that particular month. Flying for score is more like work and causes much frustration for friend or foe alike.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 10, 2019, 03:33:02 PM
I would still fly the 51. Why? Because I don’t give a rip about score. I am here for the fight. I am measuring myself now against myself yesterday and last year. Public score displays cause egomaniacal whizzing contests and general acrimony for no real positive purpose.
Publish the top five and leave it at that. Show the top in each category during the tour without a name as a measuring stick if you must.
The liberal approach of limiting competition to spite feelings isn't going to solve anything. It would actually deter more players. It gives something for players to strive for and provides measurements and stats for other players. I think taking the top names off the front page even deterred players. I can promise you that taking away scores wouldn't stop people from getting in 190Ds and running every time they got reversed.
Flying in vulch mode was perhaps a poorly worded generalization. I meant flying in low risk/high reward situations. For instance, if a NOE bomber raid comes in, getting 4-6 kills (or more) in quick succession and a safe landing. Or picking off suckers from low flying friendly bombers used as bait. Or CV combat air patrol.
These situations can result in high K/H and K/S if using a late war monster. Notice that most of the top score people primarily fly in attack mode and save fighter sorties for situations like mentioned above. Pretty sure I could get a top 5 fighter rank if I wanted but could also name 50 players that are better.
There are some score guys that are quite good, but score mostly shows who wanted to be the "best" that particular month. Flying for score is more like work and causes much frustration for friend or foe alike.
That's why I like scores to change every month. You have to be a strong player that whole month to win, and it's all erased the next month for an even playing field for anyone to try. Getting top 5 is way harder than being top 20. I understand your situational occurences, but that is hard to measure. I mean a few top scores right now are all because of the 262 and Temp, would I like an ENY metric? Definitely. I don't see anything wrong with using attack mode as a buffer, but it still leaves you with a weak attack rank. No one says you have to play for rank, and the beauty of it is, the ranks change every month giving everyone an opportunity to be #1.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vraciu on March 10, 2019, 03:37:17 PM
The liberal approach of limiting competition to spite feelings isn't going to solve anything.
Oh spare me. All the egomaniacs out there have run players away in droves. Liberalism has nothing to do with it. Being an azzhat does. So since people cannot play nice as it is we need to deincentivize the behavior. Public scoring is not about competition. It’s about self-aggrandizement.
That day a few months back when perk planes were free and score didn’t matter brought some of the best fighting I’ve ever seen in the game. Scoring for public mockery has a negative effect whether you choose to admit it or not.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 10, 2019, 04:11:05 PM
Oh spare me. All the egomaniacs out there have run players away in droves. Liberalism has nothing to do with it. Being an azzhat does. So since people cannot play nice as it is we need to deincentivize the behavior. Public scoring is not about competition. It’s about self-aggrandizement.
That day a few months back when perk planes were free and score didn’t matter brought some of the best fighting I’ve ever seen in the game. Scoring for public mockery has a negative effect whether you choose to admit it or not.
You could make that same case about any other sport on the planet.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: TWCAxew on March 10, 2019, 05:26:43 PM
Got to hand it to Varciu on this one. I goof off a lot in this game but still have my score in the back of my mind. It affects my gameplay whether I like it or not even though my score does not hold a candle to what it once was.
Heck it's the exact reason why I am to afraid to play competitive chess :bhead
Than again all sports are like that. Whatever both sides of the coin are compelling..
DutchVII
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 10, 2019, 05:34:09 PM
And most of those comparisons would not be appropriate for a variety of reasons.
Not true.
Basically what you are saying is that since you cannot score high, or care to take the time to score high, or don't even care about scoring high, than everyone else should not have score either because of some imaginary emotional issues over competitiveness.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Vraciu on March 10, 2019, 07:21:53 PM
Basically what you are saying is that since you cannot score high, or care to take the time to score high, or don't even care about scoring high, than everyone else should not have score either because of some imaginary emotional issues over competitiveness.
“Ehhhhhhhh. Sorry, Hans, wrong guess.”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Puctc2SjBF4
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Oldman731 on March 10, 2019, 07:46:52 PM
Oh spare me. All the egomaniacs out there have run players away in droves. Liberalism has nothing to do with it. Being an azzhat does. So since people cannot play nice as it is we need to deincentivize the behavior. Public scoring is not about competition. It’s about self-aggrandizement.
Yikes. I agree with Vraciu.
And yet. There's no doubt that AH always had a group of players - quite possibly a big group - for whom score is really important (glances sideways at Violator). No reason to run them off by eliminating score. The goal should be to eliminate the chest-thumping.
- oldman
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: FLS on March 10, 2019, 08:13:30 PM
My other question was about moving fighter score and ranking to the match arenas since fighter kills in the MA can be meaningless as far as skill goes.
There would still be fighter score but it would be in the match arenas with ELO ranking to keep it honest.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 10, 2019, 11:00:06 PM
And yet. There's no doubt that AH always had a group of players - quite possibly a big group - for whom score is really important (glances sideways at Violator). No reason to run them off by eliminating score. The goal should be to eliminate the chest-thumping.
- oldman
It's not like I play for #1 every month. I do like to try for high stats and measures in most of my sorties, but I like to fly a lot of different types of planes too. I just think it's a good scoring system compared to most I've seen. I bet a lot more players pay attention to it than you'd think. I agree with your premise but Ive never seen people argue about whose rank is better ever in the MA. It's an over exaggeration.
My other question was about moving fighter score and ranking to the match arenas since fighter kills in the MA can be meaningless as far as skill goes.
There would still be fighter score but it would be in the match arenas with ELO ranking to keep it honest.
Even if you get a few skilless kills you still have to have skill to achieve top 5 scores. The whole point of having the points metric is to make sure players don't get #1 for just one or 2 sorties. You have to be consistent for a month in your sorties to score high. That is not skilless for the MA arena. With more #s makes score harder to achieve. Planes do matter, but you still have to have some level of skill and understanding and patience to be #1.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 11, 2019, 01:19:16 AM
I have had more chick action then everyone.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: 1stpar3 on March 11, 2019, 01:26:34 AM
:aok Hot wings or KFC :D Crap, guess my application for Food Management, is toast now :bhead
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: guncrasher on March 11, 2019, 02:20:00 AM
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 11, 2019, 02:28:57 AM
:)
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: ACE on March 11, 2019, 06:16:19 AM
No one has ever looked at score an been like damn that dudes good. Just get rid of it. Means nothing except you flew timid in perk rides for a couple hours.
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: SPKmes on March 11, 2019, 12:22:22 PM
Midway did :rofl
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: zack1234 on March 11, 2019, 12:31:28 PM
Shida liked his name in lights
And so did Bruv
Points mean prizes
Title: Re: Game play
Post by: Arlo on March 11, 2019, 02:09:15 PM