Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ONTOS on June 26, 2019, 11:57:38 AM
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I don't know how many, if any, planes were main gunned by tanks in WW2. In this game it's epidemic. I understand the way one can aim at a plane the same way you can aim at a tank or building in this game, but it's hard to believe the main gun could follow a plane flying two hundred mph plus in real life. Just complaining I guess. :bhead
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Can be avoided by not coming as a low fat easy target, even better when they attack from the direction I’m slopped up.
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I don't know how many, if any, planes were main gunned by tanks in WW2. In this game it's epidemic. I understand the way one can aim at a plane the same way you can aim at a tank or building in this game, but it's hard to believe the main gun could follow a plane flying two hundred mph plus in real life. Just complaining I guess. :bhead
Why? It's no different than hitting any other moving target. If the plane is moving predictably there's no reason you can't lead it. Assuming the traverse rates are accurate, there'd be nothing stopping you from doing the same thing IRL.
Wiley.
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In the game all you say is true. I am saying that could not be done in reality, except on a fluke shot.
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At least they modeled the tanks as they were in WWII with the big red holographic I.D. and distance proximity glowing directly overhead
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In the game all you say is true. I am saying that could not be done in reality, except on a fluke shot.
Again, why? Assuming you're sitting on a mountain of ammunition and your life doesn't depend on not wasting it, what prevents you from doing it?
Wiley.
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the first person ever to shoot down a plane with a tank was hitech. it was during testing. they went over the data carefully and found no errors.
semp
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At least they modeled the tanks as they were in WWII with the big red holographic I.D. and distance proximity glowing directly overhead
Ha! Most of the time a pilot wont see a GV icon until it's too late. That glowing sign directly overhead the GV is only visible while directly overhead. It's less than useful.
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Ive done it twice. First was a fluke. Second he was machine gunning me . Id set the rear view to where he was coming from so that when he went past he was in the sight of the main. As They all start to climb after their pass and you shoot just a little above them. Gotchya.
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Ha! Most of the time a pilot wont see a GV icon until it's too late. That glowing sign directly overhead the GV is only visible while directly overhead. It's less than useful.
Then that pilot needs glasses. I usually see GVs well before I see their icon (and can ID them visually).
I really enjoy the air to ground game, you'll often see me flying close air with friendly GVers spotting and sometimes taking tanks out with the Yak 9T. A 37mm top down turret shot can take out everything up to and including a Tiger.
And a lot of the time the icons don't show for me. When you use VR they don't handle inverted pilots very well :)
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Even if you are setting on million rounds, you can shoot all you want, but the chance of hitting an airplane is very, very slim, in real life. (very slim).
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Even if you are setting on million rounds, you can shoot all you want, but the chance of hitting an airplane is very, very slim, in real life. (very slim).
Ok... So would the chance still be slim if you had a jeep driving straight toward the tank?
If the plane's coming straight on within traversal range on the tank, what is the difference?
Wiley.
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in real life 12 troops wouldn't capture a base either.
semp
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Ok... So would the chance still be slim if you had a jeep driving straight toward the tank?
If the plane's coming straight on within traversal range on the tank, what is the difference?
Wiley.
A short engagement time and a VERY rapidly changing range, along with a (likely) non-horizontal plane which will change the relationship between range and "bullet drop."
Mike
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Why? It's no different than hitting any other moving target
I did 24+ years in Armored unit in the Army, once every few years we would go fire at Target drones......... never seen one shot down by a tank.
And not talking one tank vs a drone... the whole "FN" company 12 tanks... main guns... 7.62 .. .50 cal 5.56 M16's ... rocks. Never seen one knocked from the sky.
But then again we have laser-guided 5-inch guns on naval ships....... before proximity fuses you needed 2500 rounds to get a hit on a moving plane... after proximity fuses you needed to fire 500 rounds to get a hit on a plane in WW2.
CAV
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I did 24+ years in Armored unit in the Army, once every few years we would go fire at Target drones......... never seen one shot down by a tank.
And not talking one tank vs a drone... the whole "FN" company 12 tanks... main guns... 7.62 .. .50 cal 5.56 M16's ... rocks. Never seen one knocked from the sky.
But then again we have laser-guided 5-inch guns on naval ships....... before proximity fuses you needed 2500 rounds to get a hit on a moving plane... after proximity fuses you needed to fire 500 rounds to get a hit on a plane in WW2.
CAV
What was their approach like, and was it repeated? How many attempts? Not trying to be a smartass, genuinely curious.
I have no trouble believing it never happened IRL. I agree wing shooting it from odd angles like a duck is likely in the realm of "nigh impossible". The way we can go from commander to gunner and fire from commander puts what we can do in game outside what was possible IRL.
However I just don't see why if you are in the sight and happen to see something low flying straight or nearly straight toward you in enough time to get the sight aligned, it wouldn't be in the realm of possibility to hit it.
Wiley.
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Even if you are setting on million rounds, you can shoot all you want, but the chance of hitting an airplane is very, very slim, in real life. (very slim).
Pilots in AH don't behave like those in real life. ;)
Hitting a plane with the main gun 1K away on a plane flying anything but a direct course down the barrel is very difficult in AH either. It's quite rare to get a plane kill that way. Most of the time planes are maingunned because of a major carelessness on the pilots side.
Some older folks may remember me doing thousands of attack runs with cannon armed tank busters. And even with that 'close & personal' attacks, I don't think I was maingunned more than like a dozen times in total. Most of the time it was all my fault by presenting a fat, slow, low angle target coming right at the gunner. Getting really shot out of the air happened, was exceedingly rare.
The one thing that makes maingunning planes easier in AH is the enhanced situational awareness the single tank driver has. He can scan the sky, switch between stations in an instant and is not burdened by a myriad of routine tasks in a much 'clearer' battlefield. But then, the same goes for the pilots, which also kill tanks WAY easier than in RL.
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As lushce says... mostly pilot error... I have had a plane kill in a shore battery due to the very same reason.... I'm picking the guy would have died from his bomb splash anyway with how he came in.... I have also killed a plane with the shore batt whilst planes were flying low over the field vulching...the round hit the ground at just the right time...... I do find it a little hard to take when...even though it is my fault for flying so low when strafing a tank....they shoot into the ground and take me down.... that surely should cause some kind of damage to a tank.... but now I am diverting from the main gripe...
some people do make a main gun kill easy by flying straight down the barrel
comparing to real life tactics is futile.... we all have way more hours of time in these things than any driver/pilot had..... had they spent as much time as us ...I'm quite sure they could do some of the things we do...not all as some things are just due the virtual/real world differences... but things that just take time and practice would have been attainable
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Main gunning a plane has to be real. I mean it’s advertised on the steam page. So it ya to be.
Most gamey part of the game.
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I have been main gunned flying at an angle to the tank and the tank was not my objective.
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I have been main gunned flying at an angle to the tank and the tank was not my objective.
So now what?
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I have been main gunned flying at an angle to the tank and the tank was not my objective.
Charger 5 got me at 800 yds crossing shot. Was unbelievable. I had to go watch the film because there were no other planes with in about 2k and I couldn’t understand what got me. Hell of shot
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You guys need to understand that the creator of this "game" is the same person who in Air Warrior back in the 1991ish timeframe, spawned a tank in the pacific terrain (3x3 sectors very small, this was back when 37 people online was a thing) and figured out how to shell the spawn point on the runways of the other country's fields. I can testify to this because I was the idiot who spawned jeeps and called corrections on his shots until he killed me. He approves of tank gunnery initiatives.
Ah the good old days..
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Most pilots being shot down by tank guns are using horrific attack profiles.
If you're getting shot down from quartering shots at long range..... Why are you flying level at low altitude? This is contributing to your poor ground SA, and makes you an easy target.
If you're getting shot down attacking a tank.... Why are you flying below his angle of elevation?
Literally any time you get shot down by a tank main gun round and it's not a fluke (which happens. I've both shot down others and been shot down completely unintentionally).... You were doing something stupid.
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The reason you get main-gunned is you can sit in commanders position, with a gunsight reticle to aim with - while sitting button-up.
you are basically doing all 3 essential tasks made by 2-3 people, for spotting/aiming/shooting/loading as one nervous system and from a hawk-eye position.
Try to do it with 2 people, one in gunner position with very limited FOV, and the commander sitting with or without binoculars, giving commands how to turn turret to an proximate clock position, and also give elevation in degrees- at a target moving 200-500mph, that also changes it's altitude.
I served as a tank platoon commander 79-94, we managed during all these years to get a confirmed 'kill' on slow-moving transport helicopter, using laser ranged gun sight and lead-computer at short range in an exercise.
Neither laser ranging, nor lead computers existed in WWII.
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I wonder if some of the guys that defend and divert the topic of shooting guys down in main guns are they guys that are effective at it. Its their $/month.
I play this game tending to fly using the techniques close to WWII (basically Boelcke rules).
I respect that some peeps need it to be more vid game like than WWII-like. Funny though when some get bent out of shape if I dont turn fight a Spit in a 190 and the like. :rofl
Actually, the most gamey thing in this game is how the rearm pad is abused. Changing the definition of a "sortie" in doing so. :old:
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I laugh if I get main gunned. I mean I deserve it for putting my 38 right there.
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I respect that some peeps need it to be more vid game like than WWII-like.
Are you talking about the people who don't see an issue with the fact that it's possible to main gun an airplane, or are you talking about the people who magically want the main gun round to not affect their aircraft because it makes them feel bad?
Wiley.
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Wiley,
Are you talking about...
My preference is that I wish tanks could not shoot down planes in main guns as they did not do this (at these frequencies at least) in WWII. Modeling the game closer to WWII is my pref. :salute
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At least they modeled the tanks as they were in WWII with the big red holographic I.D. and distance proximity glowing directly overhead
.........and do not forget how accurate the GV dar was back in WWII.
:salute JC
If you get main gunned by a tank it is your own fault. Don't come in so low. The T-34/76 and T-34/85 can have turrets that can point up allot higher
than the other tanks in the game. Avoid them. Also, many gv'ers load HE rounds when they are strafed by an air con. If they bounce an HE round off of a tree, building, hillside, ect......... you go boom when it explodes. There is nothing more fun than bouncing HE rounds on the runway when planes are taking off. :D :D :D
:banana:
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.........and do not forget how accurate the GV dar was back in WWII.
:salute JC
If you get main gunned by a tank it is your own fault. Don't come in so low. The T-34/76 and T-34/85 can have turrets that can point up allot higher
than the other tanks in the game. Avoid them. Also, many gv'ers load HE rounds when they are strafed by an air con. If they bounce an HE round off of a tree, building, hillside, ect......... you go boom when it explodes. There is nothing more fun than bouncing HE rounds on the runway when planes are taking off. :D :D :D
:banana:
You sadistic bastud.
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I have shot planes down inside 1.0 with an 88. The actual round hits the plane and you see the sprite.
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What was their approach like, and was it repeated? How many attempts?
Well it was an army tank range so all approaches were from the impact area (90° of the firing line). Most attack runs were low-to-medium altitude ( a few 1000 ft off the ground) speeds went from super slow to holy crap fast! All passed right over top of the firing line. The thing you have to understand and AH we have a totally unrealistic Commander's position. We have a super unrealistic Zoom and the commander can fire the gun without having to drop down to a gun sight (if the tank had one, most tank commanders was unable to move the gun, let alone fire it ) because we draw overlays on our monitor. (one of many things that need to be fixed in this game)
CAV
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Hitech has tried to make the flight model of the aircraft as realistic as possible. Hitech has also tried to make the flight characteristics of bullets, including tanks shells, as realistic as possible. Unless you can prove that a tank shell cannot hit an airplane, you really don't have a complaint. If you can show that the flight model of the plane or the shell is inaccurate, then show Hitech the data. Saying "tanks can't hit airplanes like that" is not evidence.
And here is a story of a guy who claimed to have done it:
https://defensionem.com/tank-shoots-down-a-plane/
So yes, it was a one in a thousand shot, but it could be done. It happens more often here than in real life because we insist on trying to fly down the tanks gun barrel.
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A "one in a thousand shot" is a "career " for real life guys, for us in the game, it's a weekend of playing. The situation where a plane is on the best flight path to be hit by a tank in game comes up often enough that you can practice and get good at it. Real life, not so much.
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A "one in a thousand shot" is a "career " for real life guys, for us in the game, it's a weekend of playing. The situation where a plane is on the best flight path to be hit by a tank in game comes up often enough that you can practice and get good at it. Real life, not so much.
That is it in a nutshell.
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I still say it's unrealistic Zoom levels, the ability to fire/aim the main gun and the coax machine gun by using a home made sight on your monitor and the fact that the tank commander can move the turret at all in game is what leads to a unrealistic kill rate in AH........... you do not a lot of main kills in WW2OL.
CAV
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Tankers in AH have many more hours of experience and no chance of death.
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I main gunned 3 of Notars Lancs one day, man I was All puffed up. :devil
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I main gunned 3 of Notars Lancs one day, man I was All puffed up. :devil
ROTFLMAO
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This is right up there with 'No enemy CVs were sunk by level bombing'.
The math is simple.. calculate the trajectory of the shell/bomb.
If that trajectory intersects the trajectory of another vehicle ( air/ground/sea ) then calculate damage.
The thing folks are blatently ignoring is the thousands of hours of game play we have vs. the actual hours of practice enjoyed by the real combatants. A lot of the lessons we have learned over the years were also learned by many of the combatants, yet they didn't have the luxury of being able to live after the lesson was learned.
These thousands of hours of experience have been used to accurately calculate such aformentioned trajectories.
Given enough players, we could lay out a level bombing strategy where no fleet could possibly escape destruction, there are only so many angles/velocities that can be changed, and you can account for that.
So treat getting main'd by GVs like having to end your flight on a runway for successful landing. You know they can kill you.. don't give them that shot.
:salute
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If they bounce an HE round off of a tree, building, hillside, ect......... you go boom when it explodes.
I did not know that.
Thanks. :salute
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The thing is , again, the way HTC is set up one can do things in the program, one can not do in real life. A lot of things in HTC is for convince and playability, it doesn't make it right.
For example, bombers almost making dogfighting maneuvers. Thirty ton tanks being stopped by small trees.
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I've killed aircraft 10k away. Seriously. Freshly spawned aircraft. :devil
Airplanes that try to mark your position are the easiest. HE splash damage is incredible!
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Wiley,
My preference is that I wish tanks could not shoot down planes in main guns as they did not do this (at these frequencies at least) in WWII. Modeling the game closer to WWII is my pref. :salute
if they can do it from the gunners position, I'm all for it, otherwise - NO !
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I main gunned quite a few aircraft that came directly towards my T-34/85. If they were attempting bomb drop, Most would begin a shallow dive, or even better for me, level flight 1.5 -2k away, usually at or beneath my max elevation. I just had to point and shoot when distance neared 1k using HVAP. The closing speed between plane and my round nullified gravity. Main gun round is a projectile no different than a bullet.
Sometimes I would sit at end of a field and even brought down a few by HE 'ground splash' as they attempted take-off/landing.
Although it's been 6yrs since I've played, I find it interesting that same argument about it exists. Irregardless of happening in WWII or ever in real life, realize that a very large projectile fired from main gun suddenly occupying same space as an aircraft will result in catastrophic end for said aircraft!
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I main gunned quite a few aircraft that came directly towards my T-34/85. If they were attempting bomb drop, Most would begin a shallow dive, or even better for me, level flight 1.5 -2k away, usually at or beneath my max elevation. I just had to point and shoot when distance neared 1k using HVAP. The closing speed between plane and my round nullified gravity. Main gun round is a projectile no different than a bullet.
Sometimes I would sit at end of a field and even brought down a few by HE 'ground splash' as they attempted take-off/landing.
Although it's been 6yrs since I've played, I find it interesting that same argument about it exists. Irregardless of happening in WWII or ever in real life, realize that a very large projectile fired from main gun suddenly occupying same space as an aircraft will result in catastrophic end for said aircraft!
6 yrs? Come on back! Just curious what made you leave since clearly by visiting the bbs you must have enjoyed the game back in the day.
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Snip
Although it's been 6yrs since I've played, I find it interesting that same argument about it exists. Irregardless of happening in WWII or ever in real life, realize that a very large projectile fired from main gun suddenly occupying same space as an aircraft will result in catastrophic end for said aircraft! Snip
Did you even play a year? I just noticed your join date.... at least for the BBS.
I agree with your point.
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At least they modeled the tanks as they were in WWII with the big red holographic I.D. and distance proximity glowing directly overhead
Not to aircraft, I haven't seen a GV on the ground in over 5 years.
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6 yrs? Come on back! Just curious what made you leave since clearly by visiting the bbs you must have enjoyed the game back in the day.
Yes, I enjoyed the game very much. Unfortunately some real life things and a career change impacted my free time. A few months ago I started visiting bbs to get a an idea of what I've been missing. Hoping to start playing soon as I'm attempting a computer build.
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Did you even play a year? I just noticed your join date.... at least for the BBS.
I agree with your point.
I believe it was just about a year playing. I had a generic twisty stick so I spent a good deal of time and became proficient in GV's as I wasn't much of a pilot and possibly fell prey to you a few times. :salute
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I believe it was just about a year playing. I had a generic twisty stick so I spent a good deal of time and became proficient in GV's as I wasn't much of a pilot and possibly fell prey to you a few times. :salute
Heck I fall prey to me some times :rofl
In any case family and real life are most important. If you do get a chance to return... you would be most welcomed. :salute
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The modeling of the game, it used to be that if the tank fired an HE round into the ground right next to the tank, right as the plane flew over, it would kill the plane. HiTech fixed that anomaly. If I remember correctly.
As for real world, I remember reading the story of a P-51D pilot being shot down by a German tank late 1944. It's the only such event I've ever been aware of.
Boo
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I was able to Shoot down a P-47 trying to dive bomb my panther from at least 10k up. Tankers that have exceptional aim have learned to lead. It is no different from using Wirb or Osti. I fired off one round; missed by a bit and 2nd round poofed him. Learn not to fly in a straight line; it is no different then how you fly around Flak. As for shooting down a P-47; that was pure luck and I was on a hill so I could elevate my barrel straight up. Only a dozen or so tankers in my time were able to pick off planes with ease. I can imagine there are quite a few less now.
If you are crying about it now; you should of seen one of the squads in the early 2000s; all they did was Tank. More often then not I was shot down by an Osti and I wasn't even 5k near them. I learned to change tactics quick then.
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I'm not crying about it, I'm just saying in real like it would be nearly imposable. I'll go as far as to say, several years ago I wiped out a formation of in the air B 24's, with a salvo from the 8" guns on a cruiser.
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I'm not crying about it, I'm just saying in real like it would be nearly imposable. I'll go as far as to say, several years ago I wiped out a formation of in the air B 24's, with a salvo from the 8" guns on a cruiser.
I'm not looking to offend..and With all due respect, I must point out the contradiction, and to a degree the hypocrisy, in what you've said. By your assessment, An aircraft being main gunned by a tank is nearly impossible in real life, during WWII was not documented or can be legitimately verified and so therefore should not happen in game..
yet intentionally using the 8" MAIN GUNS on a Cruiser wiping out B-24's in formation(or any aircraft) doesn't seem to be either.
I must say, though, that your admission brings into focus that a projectile fired from the main guns-whether tank or ship- can destroy aircraft in this Game. Apparently though it only seems unrealistically unfair to some pilots of said aircraft. I thought as much when first time it happened to me, then I calmed down and looked at issue rationally.
i.e.
As in real life, all it takes is for the paths of a projectile and an aircraft to coincide :old:
Just an observation and viewpoint. Shilo- I stated in the beginning I wasn't looking to offend..hopefully I haven't. Or any one else. I look to have my computer up and running by next weekend, subscribing, and have the honor of playing the game again with everyone :salute :joystick:
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Yeehaw more Texans. :D
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People that think shooting down a plane with a tank's main gun is unrealistic should read Tigers In The Mud. Afterwards read Stuka Ace in which Rudel attributes the loss of his wingman to a T-34's main gun.
Just because it didn't happen often doesn't mean it is an unrealistic aspect of the game.
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People that think shooting down a plane with a tank's main gun is unrealistic should read Tigers In The Mud. Afterwards read Stuka Ace in which Rudel attributes the loss of his wingman to a T-34's main gun.
Just because it didn't happen often doesn't mean it is an unrealistic aspect of the game.
Just very gamey. I main gunner like 5 planes earlier this week in one sortie.
But I have learned in this game. If you want to fight planes up a gv. If you want to fight gvs up a plane. So I imagine as much as the gvers have to deal with planes that would rather fight gvs they get real good at it.
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One avid tanker in this game will fire many more rounds than any tanker in real life.
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I am not offended sir, I am saying I knocked down some B-24's with 8" guns. I was just shooting at them and did not think I would hit them, but you know the old saying "even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while". My complaint is people do it regularly. I can see I am over whelmed by opposition on the subject, so I yield.
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I am not offended sir, I am saying I knocked down some B-24's with 8" guns. I was just shooting at them and did not think I would hit them, but you know the old saying "even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while". My complaint is people do it regularly. I can see I am over whelmed by opposition on the subject, so I yield.
That blind hog statement is very relevant to aircraft and artillery projectiles. During close air support, if artillery was also being used against a target(s), Forward Air Controllers had to coordinate with artillery batteries(Land or ship based) stopping artillery during bombing/strafing runs. No pilot/aircrew wants to share airspace, much less, have a mid-air collision with those practically invisible projectiles. Not an option concerning enemy projectiles though.
If you consider the sparse or non existent anti-air weapons on a tank when Concerning people doing it regularly, I don't blame them if they have the skill and opportunity.
As for anyone calling it 'gamey', consider that in war and combat,adaptions can be made to strategies,tactics, equipment,weapons, etc.. as are in game... It's an adaption to tanks defense and sometimes It's effective.
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That blind hog statement is very relevant to aircraft and artillery projectiles. During close air support, if artillery was also being used against a target(s), Forward Air Controllers had to coordinate with artillery batteries(Land or ship based) stopping artillery during bombing/strafing runs. No pilot/aircrew wants to share airspace, much less, have a mid-air collision with those practically invisible projectiles. Not an option concerning enemy projectiles though.
If you consider the sparse or non existent anti-air weapons on a tank when Concerning people doing it regularly, I don't blame them if they have the skill and opportunity.
As for anyone calling it 'gamey', consider that in war and combat,adaptions can be made to strategies,tactics, equipment,weapons, etc.. as are in game... It's an adaption to tanks defense and sometimes It's effective.
Interesting that you mentioned how FACs will make the airspace is clear by coordinating with the artillery batteries. There is a photo from the Vietnam War of an Australian air force cargo plane being shot down by an artillery gun.
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Just very gamey. I main gunner like 5 planes earlier this week in one sortie.
But I have learned in this game. If you want to fight planes up a gv. If you want to fight gvs up a plane. So I imagine as much as the gvers have to deal with planes that would rather fight gvs they get real good at it.
Know how simple it is to up a P-38 with pair of 1k eggs and climb to 5k to bomb a GV? The GV has zero percent chance to shoot back unless there is a Wirb/Osti whose a decent shot laying in waiting. That being said you simply climb above 7k and S split the Egg on them. In one tour I remember I had far more deaths from Eggs then I did tanks. Its just a fact that planes are easier to handle and not everyone likes GV's. I just happened to get extremely good at it.
As far as shooting down planes; I might of had three dozen kills in many tours; that's it - per 1000 Deaths by Eggs and as many from Tanks. If you compare the numbers, getting a lucky shot off and nailing a plane was blind luck and revenge considering I spent more time being bombed then not.
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Know how simple it is to up a P-38 with pair of 1k eggs and climb to 5k to bomb a GV? The GV has zero percent chance to shoot back unless there is a Wirb/Osti whose a decent shot laying in waiting. That being said you simply climb above 7k and S split the Egg on them. In one tour I remember I had far more deaths from Eggs then I did tanks. Its just a fact that planes are easier to handle and not everyone likes GV's. I just happened to get extremely good at it.
As far as shooting down planes; I might of had three dozen kills in many tours; that's it - per 1000 Deaths by Eggs and as many from Tanks. If you compare the numbers, getting a lucky shot off and nailing a plane was blind luck and revenge considering I spent more time being bombed then not.
I generally try to leave the gvs alone if they have air cover. I fight their air cover. If a wirb shoots me while fighting the air cover.... I switch to bombing anything that moves.
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I generally try to leave the gvs alone if they have air cover. I fight their air cover. If a wirb shoots me while fighting the air cover.... I switch to bombing anything that moves.
:aok Same! Thus the Spitfar 16(trainer) :rofl Has 3 Bombs and can get up and duke it out if Air shows up. At least its "more Sporting" using smaller bombs. The Spit is my GV of choice...VR sucks when in a Tank so I GV from 5k. :devil Once you get good at it...you have a lot more Pen Pals in game :aok
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LOL
I am still waiting for a twin engined tank too.
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I am currently reading Rudel´s book on his WW2 flying again and he mentioned loosing a JU87 aircrew "probably to a stray tank maingun shell". So it obviously wasn´t unheard of.
In addition - when I was in the Army and taking part in Reforger ´90 as part of a field artillery outfit we had to coordinate firemissions with friendly helicopters because they were obviously worried about flying through the shell´s path. (This was only simulated, much of Reforger 90 was already "played out on computers").
And reading the book "Chickenhawk" on Vietnam helicopter flying I also remember a passage where the artillery stopped firing for a few seconds as helicopters came in for resupply.
I regularly (as in "almost always") got hit in AH by main guns when attacking tanks at a shallow angle. I agree that it "feels" that this is happening too much. Just like I feel that the gunnery skill of all these 20+ years of AH veterans exceeds the gunnery skill of the average WW2 tank gunner by a factor of 100 or more. I don´t drive tanks in AH anymore as a result. I don´t stand a snowballs chance in hell against most of those that do.
Jan
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the crux of it is this. You can main gun from the turret top, tyfoo's bread and butter. Eliminate that, it gets more realistic and extremely hard to see a plane, unless you know right where to look, much less track and shoot it. I think the Main gun should be fired through the main gun sight only. use the cupola view for driving. Lots of that dot painted on the screen shooting on the fly goes away and it becoms more like a sim and less like a 3rd person shooter.
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Where have you been Butcher? Long time no see. :salute
Main gunning planes is easy when they come in low. IL-2's and B-25's often come in really low. They go boom. :D
If a plane stays up above the maximum upward tilt of the tank's turret they are completely safe. The pilots that come in
low always buy the farm. Remember: The T-34/76 and T-34/85 can point the turret up higher than the other tanks.
My two cents.
:salute
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The better ones let you make your hi angle run, then hit you on the way out as you work to not auger.
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When shooting at moving targets joysticks beat hand crank wheels all day.
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I have a great picture on my iPad of a C 47 being whacked by a shore battery. Main gunning is simple in comparison.
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I have a great picture on my iPad of a C 47 being whacked by a shore battery. Main gunning is simple in comparison.
I would like to see that. Can you post it?
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Here is that photo I mentioned of a C-7A being shot down by an artillery gun.
(http://www.c-7acaribou.com/album/photos/Caribou_Ha_Thahn.jpg)
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Here is that photo I mentioned of a C-7A being shot down by an artillery gun.
(http://www.c-7acaribou.com/album/photos/Caribou_Ha_Thahn.jpg)
WOW amazing. Thanks for posting that. Terrible for the crew. :salute
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LOL
I am still waiting for a twin engined tank too.
The M24 Chafee will answer your prayers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Chaffee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Chaffee)
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The M24 Chafee will answer your prayers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Chaffee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Chaffee)
:D :D
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Nearly all of my main gun kills were on planes that were flying directly at my tank and flying on the deck basically level. That makes for a very easy shot even with AP.
I've had one really good deflection shot on a plane from a tank that took a bit of strategy, some good estimating and a lot of luck. I used a HE shell to kill a landing plane from 1.6K after I found the range to the runway by shooting some fuel tanks after the other player tracked me.
Here's the recording of that incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUeDy9IUczY
Anyway, running over a plane with a GV is a lot more fun than maingunning them so I digress...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/wHfihfpuQDQTNk2qSm/giphy.gif)
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Anyway, running over a plane with a GV is a lot more fun than maingunning them so I digress...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/wHfihfpuQDQTNk2qSm/giphy.gif)
You may ask yourself what should happen if you run through a 100 gallon + aviation fuel loaded plane, with sparks when metal meets metal as you crush the victim :old:
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You may ask yourself what should happen if you run through a 100 gallon + aviation fuel loaded plane, with sparks when metal meets metal as you crush the victim :old:
Nawwww he doesnt care about what "may happen" hes just happy to game the game :rolleyes: Im sure this NEVER caused a player to quit and cancel his/her subscription.
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Nawwww he doesnt care about what "may happen" hes just happy to game the game :rolleyes: Im sure this NEVER caused a player to quit and cancel his/her subscription.
So I guess you have never killed a player that had quit.
Semp
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So I guess you have never killed a player that had quit.
Semp
Not by gaming the game like some people do.
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Nawwww he doesnt care about what "may happen" hes just happy to game the game :rolleyes: Im sure this NEVER caused a player to quit and cancel his/her subscription.
oh please...
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Yawn. In a game where one has many more hours practice than in real life.... many things are possible.
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Yeah, pretty much after your first month you have exceeded the total number of hours the vast majority of pilots ever had in the war. Sure, there are exceptions and we have seen plenty of people that just cannot manage flying even in a game.
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Do not compare flying a plane with creing a tank that, hopefully, stay on the ground and travels at 0-35mph.
The crew experience , coordination and gunner aim calculation hitting a moving target at the same 0 -35mph affects the hit %, and concealing it minimize your getting hit.
A trained tank crew staye in the steel interior for days/months, sometimes doing pretty much everything inside it.
I recently read the "M4 death traps" , in late 1944 they seem to frequently man the tanks with infantry personnel from the reserve, had shot 3 rounds of AP ammo, and went into combat with men 3 inside the normally 5 crewed tank. :huh