General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BTPommyB on August 16, 2019, 04:08:49 AM
Title: Steam Marketing
Post by: BTPommyB on August 16, 2019, 04:08:49 AM
The AH3 page on steam is really bad marketing. It does not represent AH3 accurately. It also says that the game is free. It isn't and you are annoying prospective players. You come across as dodgy. Two weeks trial period does not mean free. I suggest you take a good look at how you present AH3 on steam.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Shuffler on August 16, 2019, 04:34:45 AM
What do you do for free?
There are no totally free games.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: BTPommyB on August 16, 2019, 06:21:58 AM
Mate. I want to see AH3 be a success. You wont do it with dodgy marketing!
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: guncrasher on August 16, 2019, 06:51:37 AM
Mate. I want to see AH3 be a success. You wont do it with dodgy marketing!
you mean like world of tanks, world of warplanes, world of ships, they all advertise as free games. to play at the high levels you need to buy gold, or moving up is painfully slow. and even if you buy a lot of gold by the time you get to the top tier, you find there's another line that now you have to grind or pay to play if you want to have a chance.
semp
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Spikes on August 16, 2019, 07:36:37 AM
Mate. I want to see AH3 be a success. You wont do it with dodgy marketing!
I'm sure it has something to do with Steam's policy on what constitutes a "free" game versus a "paid" game, but I have no idea.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Bizman on August 16, 2019, 07:52:41 AM
What do you mean by saying that AH3 is not free? It's free to download and free to use offline for as long as you want. And there's several free online multi player arenas as well. I'd call that plenty free.
For the first six months a bunch of us learned our basic skills on the free H2H arenas until we were encouraged to bite the bullet and join the masses on the Main Arena. All it took was a leader who kept spamming all his friends to join the practicing event every night. With all this social media of today getting a bunch of like minded people to practice flying and fighting shouldn't be an issue. Making them really take some time to actually concentrate on something is the problem. This is no 3 minutes Candy Crush Saga.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: BTPommyB on August 16, 2019, 08:34:18 AM
C'mon guys. The steam pitch is rubbish, and misleading. Be honest. It is a fantasic VR game which is hard to play. Join a squad and you will learn fast with great people. Read the reviews. They think we are unapproachable xxxxx's.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: FLS on August 16, 2019, 08:49:29 AM
The AH3 page on steam is really bad marketing. It does not represent AH3 accurately. It also says that the game is free. It isn't and you are annoying prospective players. You come across as dodgy. Two weeks trial period does not mean free. I suggest you take a good look at how you present AH3 on steam.
I believe your point is that it's not clear that the populated arenas are subscription arenas and are only free for two weeks. I agree that can create a misleading impression for people expecting MA numbers in the free arenas. Still, there are more free arenas than there are subscriber arenas, so it's hardly misleading to say it's a free game. It's just not popular as a free game.
If you want people to play in the free arenas you need action in the free arenas but nobody wants to be alone there. AI aircraft are one solution. Showing the arenas as empty isn't encouraging either, maybe showing AI numbers in the new WW1 arena would help with that.
What do you mean by saying that AH3 is not free? It's free to download and free to use offline for as long as you want. And there's several free online multi player arenas as well. I'd call that plenty free.
Look. It's not about arguing that your marketing message is technically accurate under the law. It's about weighing whether your marketing message is being effective. Do you want to be right, or successful? Is this about ego, or is it business?
If it wasn't the single number 1 complaint I saw in the reviews, it was certainly common enough to take specific notice of.
It's not about being right. It's about winning. Does that message help more than it hurts, regardless of whether it is technically accurate? If the potential customer's first formative impression of your product is that they feel they were mislead, whether they are justified or not, you've just made your sales job that much harder. Don't give yourself additional friction to have to overcome.
Whatever additional initial draw the "Free to Play" is giving you does not outweigh the negative reaction you are getting when they realize how narrowly defined that is. Like it or not, the potential customers are not seeing the core game as "Free to Play" in the commonly accepted use of the term. I would suggest:
4 Free to Play Arenas! Free 8-player Custom Arenas for you and your friends! Free trial to the Premium Melee Arena!
or
I believe that a limited subset of lesser performance aircraft that would always be available for free in the Melee (a pattern they will already be used to from other games), would be sufficient for them to feel the "Free to Play" description was truthful. That would be a pattern the market has already trained them to expect.
:salute
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Oldman731 on August 16, 2019, 10:07:02 AM
4 Free to Play Arenas! Free 8-player Custom Arenas for you and your friends! Free trial to the Premium Melee Arena!
I think that's a great idea.
- oldman
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Spikes on August 16, 2019, 10:14:26 AM
Free to play suggests that the entire game is free to play with no money being involved. There are no options that are "locked" behind a paid account or anything like that (besides grind multipliers). This is true for games like War Thunder, Tanks, Warships, Warframe, Fortnite. They are totally free to play and won't ever cost you a dime if you don't want them to. Will your grind be miserable if you don't get premium? Of course, but they aren't forcing it.
Warframe is a totally free game and everything can be obtained via their premium currency, which is very easy to obtain by selling items in the game.
Aces High falls under the same category as World of Warcraft or EVE where you get a starter account and free trial, but after a certain amount of time it runs out and you have to pay for "full access" but still retain limited access to the game.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Volron on August 16, 2019, 10:37:10 AM
Free to play suggests that the entire game is free to play with no money being involved. There are no options that are "locked" behind a paid account or anything like that (besides grind multipliers). This is true for games like War Thunder, Tanks, Warships, Warframe, Fortnite. They are totally free to play and won't ever cost you a dime if you don't want them to. Will your grind be miserable if you don't get premium? Of course, but they aren't forcing it.
Warframe is a totally free game and everything can be obtained via their premium currency, which is very easy to obtain by selling items in the game.
Aces High falls under the same category as World of Warcraft or EVE where you get a starter account and free trial, but after a certain amount of time it runs out and you have to pay for "full access" but still retain limited access to the game.
I still remember the time you had to spend real money in order to be competitive in World of Tanks. They have "gold ammo" which is flat out better than any of the "standard" ammo you could use. Of course in order to buy the "gold ammo" you needed to use gold, which is what you get with real dollars. While I've heard that they have done away with that (you can now get this "gold ammo" for in-game credits apparently), I've no interest in going back. A Tier 1 ship in World of Warships can sink a Tier 10. A Tier 1 tank in World of Tanks could never harm a Tier 10.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Spikes on August 16, 2019, 11:39:35 AM
I still remember the time you had to spend real money in order to be competitive in World of Tanks. They have "gold ammo" which is flat out better than any of the "standard" ammo you could use. Of course in order to buy the "gold ammo" you needed to use gold, which is what you get with real dollars. While I've heard that they have done away with that (you can now get this "gold ammo" for in-game credits apparently), I've no interest in going back. A Tier 1 ship in World of Warships can sink a Tier 10. A Tier 1 tank in World of Tanks could never harm a Tier 10.
True, but standard ammo wasn't necessary. It really wasn't until all the new high-armor tanks that the premium ammo was necessary. I'm not saying it's a great approach, but it's definitely a great money-maker.
I remember a long time ago the Ltracktor could technically pen the rear of a Maus. :)
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Volron on August 16, 2019, 12:26:10 PM
True, but standard ammo wasn't necessary. It really wasn't until all the new high-armor tanks that the premium ammo was necessary. I'm not saying it's a great approach, but it's definitely a great money-maker. I remember a long time ago the Ltracktor could technically pen the rear of a Maus. :)
That would have been before my go in World of Tanks. lol
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 16, 2019, 04:12:16 PM
Quote
Aces High falls under the same category as World of Warcraft or EVE where you get a starter account and free trial, but after a certain amount of time it runs out and you have to pay for "full access" but still retain limited access to the game
Where in Aces High, does one pay for full access but still retain limited access to the game?
I find the above quoted post to be absolutely false.... The way it is written anyway, but a paid account / subscription unlocks everything for each and every person, with the only factor being is every new player has to start from scratch like everyone else has been through when they first started
TC
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 16, 2019, 04:30:57 PM
I think he meant if you didn't choose to pay for full access, you still retain limited access to the game. :old:
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: The Fugitive on August 16, 2019, 05:01:28 PM
you mean like world of tanks, world of warplanes, world of ships, they all advertise as free games. to play at the high levels you need to buy gold, or moving up is painfully slow. and even if you buy a lot of gold by the time you get to the top tier, you find there's another line that now you have to grind or pay to play if you want to have a chance.
semp
Even if moving up is painfully slow you are STILL PLAYING FOR FREE.
Most of the bad comments I read/heard where about how HTC was lying about the game being free. Yes I understand the way Hitech looks at it, but the way it is put out there can easily lead people to believe the WHOLE game is free.
I dont think HTC took the steam thing seriously and were totally surprised by the attention the game got. Now it may be too late due to the "bad press" about misleading players and such. Maybe a relaunch on steam with a limited set of planes/vehicles to be free in the MA. Maybe add the "grind" by allowing players to add a plane when they get 500 perks built up.
But I agree with Pommy, the page is very misleading and certainly not good for building a player base.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: lunaticfringe on August 16, 2019, 05:39:04 PM
are you just now seeing it
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: haggerty on August 16, 2019, 05:55:49 PM
You can argue semantics all day, but when it comes down to it, steam trial users hate the bait and switch and review the game accordingly. Many people will ignore the game entirely based on the extremely poor rating the game has. You can be very successful in World of Tanks just taking advantage of free easy tournaments or other giveaways. I havent paid for premium time or tanks in years.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: guncrasher on August 16, 2019, 06:26:05 PM
You can argue semantics all day, but when it comes down to it, steam trial users hate the bait and switch and review the game accordingly. Many people will ignore the game entirely based on the extremely poor rating the game has. You can be very successful in World of Tanks just taking advantage of free easy tournaments or other giveaways. I havent paid for premium time or tanks in years.
Sadly a lot of the bad reviews come from long time players who have an ax to grind when they were asked to leave.
Semp
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 16, 2019, 06:36:00 PM
I think he meant if you didn't choose to pay for full access, you still retain limited access to the game. :old:
Rgr.... If that's the idea with regards to including EVE Online, their "limited access to the game " is actually a somewhat "Newish feature" that was added not to long ago...before it was added it was basically a monthly subscription game...
I havent messed with EVE Online lately, but my youngest daughter confirmed that the feature had been recently added
TC
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 16, 2019, 07:45:46 PM
Hitech could hire an 18-22 year old with a passion in webpage design as an intern from his local University on a dime for very cheap and could really enhance the content. We need a calendar of events on the front page, with pics of last year's events. It looks like no has touched it in years! More videos on the front page. I go on the steam one time and see the stupidest reviews by people who don't have a single clue about the game. No one replys to them. No mention of special events... No calendar of anything. Its not even the whole free to play thing that irritates me. 2 weeks is great but should be a month. But IL2 didn't offer that and I didn't buy it. Though I did not buy AH until we had to switch from H2H, which sucked that they shut it down... Those were great arenas. Probably would have ended up in the MA eventually. Where I learned so much more. Having me in the door was key. What irritates me is that no one will open a team death match or ffa style small compact fight map for people to let loose and have quick fights to get a feel for the game. The match play is too complicated. The AI is a gang fest. The dueling arena should be a separate map with air spawns so you can choose who you are fighting. Why can't any one open a full day FFA or Team Death match? FOR FREE!! Why was H2H so successful at this? H2H was great. The old DA was great.
I'd love to have a free planes like spit5s and 109Fs to promote European game play.
I digress...
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: streakeagle on August 16, 2019, 08:23:01 PM
I had more fun in the original free Head-to-Head arenas while finishing my college degree in the 2000-2002 time frame than I ever did in all of the years I subscribed. There were some great people there that made the dogfights fun and challenging, including some top-notch paid subscribers. Whether I played or not, I had paid subscriptions over many years just to pay back HTC for the free two years of great times. I miss the people I used to fly with/against in the free arenas of that time.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: streakeagle on August 16, 2019, 08:37:45 PM
The people HTC needs to reach to keep Aces High going are my 12-year-old son and his friends. But absolutely none of them have gotten into flight sims despite thoroughly enjoying my simpit especially now that I have VR. They like to bang around the stick, fire some weapons, then see what happens when you crash. Then they go back to playing Minecraft and Fortnite. It seems like PC combat flight sims might go the same way as the air combat board games and miniatures rules have gone... only played by a handful of older guys with the hobby completely disappearing when that generation dies out.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Shuffler on August 17, 2019, 12:55:18 AM
I never thought steam types were what this game needed. In the end they just want everyone to give them something. Do they work for free?
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 17, 2019, 01:01:16 AM
The people HTC needs to reach to keep Aces High going are my 12-year-old son and his friends. But absolutely none of them have gotten into flight sims despite thoroughly enjoying my simpit especially now that I have VR. They like to bang around the stick, fire some weapons, then see what happens when you crash. Then they go back to playing Minecraft and Fortnite. It seems like PC combat flight sims might go the same way as the air combat board games and miniatures rules have gone... only played by a handful of older guys with the hobby completely disappearing when that generation dies out.
Well the bloom is certainly off the rose compared to the 90's, but there are still a lot of copies of Il2/BoX being sold.
Maybe it's more the online multi-player AW'ish flight sim that is dying. Probably most of the dad-types who still want to fly a WWII flight sim don't have the hours and hours available it would take to stay competitive in AH. They might have an hour to play after they put the kids to bed and just want to load up a box sim like IL2 and play a mission or two before lights out.
Strangely there is still a large player base of people who like to fly airliners and Cesna's around for hours in the virtual skies. I guess it takes all kinds. :O
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: perdue3 on August 17, 2019, 01:02:46 AM
The people HTC needs to reach to keep Aces High going are my 12-year-old son and his friends. But absolutely none of them have gotten into flight sims despite thoroughly enjoying my simpit especially now that I have VR. They like to bang around the stick, fire some weapons, then see what happens when you crash. Then they go back to playing Minecraft and Fortnite. It seems like PC combat flight sims might go the same way as the air combat board games and miniatures rules have gone... only played by a handful of older guys with the hobby completely disappearing when that generation dies out.
Wings of Glory was the single most fun game to play at work when no one was at the store. I worked at a hobby shop for a long time in college, when it was slow we would break out the Wings of Glory. We had both WWI and WW2, so fun. The C.205 was a serious underdog. Good times.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: perdue3 on August 17, 2019, 01:03:22 AM
What exactly is a Steam type? This game needs people, period.
Read the whole part you quoted. It is all I hear about them..... if it ain't free they are not interested.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: SPKmes on August 17, 2019, 01:30:31 AM
I'm a bit late to this foray ... but I agree with Pommy. It is not a dig @ the game...it is a dig...or not even a dig...it is a heartfelt observation..... wording is everything these days..... with so much fake..... keeping it real is liberating.....( and here is the obligatory not from America gibe at them ) I know...I know...a horrible word for some in America ( end of gibe )....yeah , yeah.... sad as it is.....because feelings, Trump words....(No not that Trump!!!).... and that feeling is good everywhere......Holy toejam...Am I wasted or what ....hahahaha
but yeah... I agree with Pommy..... and it is not about what this thread has turned into
I look forward to reading this in the morning <S>
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 17, 2019, 01:59:15 AM
Read the whole part you quoted. It is all I hear about them..... if it ain't free they are not interested.
Yeah, because games like War Thunder have never made a dollar in profit, right? Ever, right?
The market is the market Shuffler. You either figure out how to appeal to it, or you go out of business. It is never the market's obligation to adjust itself to your products preferences. Those who stubbornly demand that, end up working as Walmart greeters.
You don't even have to go full Fremium, there is a whole spectrum of intermediate options. Even having a small subset of free to play planes in he Melee could have benefits.
1. It help populate an increasingly empty arena so the paying customers actually do feel like they are paying for a MMOG. 2. It maintains contact with customers that would have simply uninstalled after a two-week trial.
Every day they keep coming to the arena is another day you have to try and convince them. Yeah, some will never convert and play the lesser planes for free for ever. But over time, many eventually will, even if they had originally intended not to. That is how War Thunder eventually makes it's money. Enough, eventually over time, finally decide to convert to make them profitable. They wear them down, but never discard them as long as they are willing to keep coming back.
AH on the other hand, unnecessarily discards potential customers after a short, two-week take-it-or-leave it trial. And they are NOT closing the deal in that time-span.
You could get away with that in 1999. I don't think it is working anymore. Obviously.
Back in 1999, there were very few online combat options. You were yanking in a 5 lbs bass on 10 lbs test line. Two-weeks, YANK! Take-it-or-leave-it. Today, there are soooo many options...you are trying to coax in a 5 lbs bass on 2 lbs test line. If you just YANK at two-weeks, you'll end up with a birds-nest of line in your lap, not a 5 lbs bass. You have to work them in gently, even giving them some line when needed. You can't just YANK. The most important thing is just to keep them on the line as long as possible and keep working them in, bit by bit until you can get a net on them.
What is being done currently is not working. Obviously. Unless you put your head in the sand and decide to believe in magic, that is not going to change unless you change something. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting magically different results is what crazy people do.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Bear76 on August 17, 2019, 02:06:33 AM
See rule 4
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 17, 2019, 02:28:40 AM
I don't know that is so much a Hitech motto as it is some of his customers.
He is kinda in a hard place. Even if he wanted to change things, there is a significant old geezer mafia here that would go bat-chit apoplectic if he dare changed anything from the way it was in 1999.
They'd rather just watch the numbers dwindle to zero as they sit around the cracker barrel whittling, talking about those damn free-loading Millennial's and their skinny jeans. :rofl
I'm an old geezer too, but it is a matter of personal choice if you let your mind rust shut.
AH II came out in 2004, AHIII did't come out until 2016. What games take 12 years to make a major update and survive let alone grow? Hundred of players left because it was dated . We were told a big thing called "Combat Tour" was going to massively increase numbers. It never materialized. Many were excited about it and got frustrated and left. I played religiously for 16 years so I have seen it for myself. I don't recall seeing you in that time.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 17, 2019, 03:02:01 AM
AH II came out in 2004, AHIII did't come out until 2016. What games take 12 years to make a major update and survive let alone grow? Hundred of players left because it was dated . We were told a big thing called "Combat Tour" was going to massively increase numbers. It never materialized. Many were excited about it and got frustrated and left. I played religiously for 16 years so I have seen it for myself. I don't recall seeing you in that time.
I agree that the abandonment of Combat Tour was a big disappointment. I personally feel like that was the inflection point as far as the loss of community momentum even if the actual numbers didn't really take a hit until the Recession.
I used to fly under the handle AKWabbit. I flew from the first weeks of Beta until about 2004 or so. I come back every couple of years for a while under different handles. I came back recently when I saw they had added VR support.
So, do you have an account now?
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Shuffler on August 17, 2019, 01:52:06 PM
Yeah, because games like War Thunder have never made a dollar in profit, right? Ever, right?
The market is the market Shuffler. You either figure out how to appeal to it, or you go out of business. It is never the market's obligation to adjust itself to your products preferences. Those who stubbornly demand that, end up working as Walmart greeters.
You don't even have to go full Fremium, there is a whole spectrum of intermediate options. Even having a small subset of free to play planes in he Melee could have benefits.
1. It help populate an increasingly empty arena so the paying customers actually do feel like they are paying for a MMOG. 2. It maintains contact with customers that would have simply uninstalled after a two-week trial.
Every day they keep coming to the arena is another day you have to try and convince them. Yeah, some will never convert and play the lesser planes for free for ever. But over time, many eventually will, even if they had originally intended not to. That is how War Thunder eventually makes it's money. Enough, eventually over time, finally decide to convert to make them profitable. They wear them down, but never discard them as long as they are willing to keep coming back.
AH on the other hand, unnecessarily discards potential customers after a short, two-week take-it-or-leave it trial. And they are NOT closing the deal in that time-span.
You could get away with that in 1999. I don't think it is working anymore. Obviously.
Back in 1999, there were very few online combat options. You were yanking in a 5 lbs bass on 10 lbs test line. Two-weeks, YANK! Take-it-or-leave-it. Today, there are soooo many options...you are trying to coax in a 5 lbs bass on 2 lbs test line. If you just YANK at two-weeks, you'll end up with a birds-nest of line in your lap, not a 5 lbs bass. You have to work them in gently, even giving them some line when needed. You can't just YANK. The most important thing is just to keep them on the line as long as possible and keep working them in, bit by bit until you can get a net on them.
What is being done currently is not working. Obviously. Unless you put your head in the sand and decide to believe in magic, that is not going to change unless you change something. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting magically different results is what crazy people do.
Free is free. If you pay a fee it ain't free.
Simple.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 17, 2019, 02:02:07 PM
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: bustr on August 17, 2019, 02:05:49 PM
Where people get frustrated with Hitech on this path is they want to make a difference now and get him committed "NOW".
They want Hitech to respond immediately, while knowing pretty well in most cases he won't for many reasons. Foremost I suspect that the conversation, once he does take part, goes to heck in a few response posts when he won't capitulate and run with all the marketing opinions from our vast array of industry professionals. Vengeful personal assaults on him and his business acumen seem to be the standard as the whole conversation falls apart each time he does take part. And others hop in to pile on with their past personal issues with Hitech for good measure because he can't afford to ban hammer all of you while you take advantage of that.
So if I was a new potential customer and popped in and read these conversations, I would never come back. Now if the intention is to drive away new customers, you are still batting 1000 with this current iteration of the soap opera: Hitech you are killing your game and have to do what we tell you to save your OLD Kester from yourself. You keep accusing Hitech of driving away new customers becasue you are identifying for him how he is a marketing failure where it comes to the E-gaming industry. Then these posts do exactly that to any new customer who reads them.
It's amazing this company has survived so long with such dedicated marketing efforts for all of Hitech's competition working to drive away new customers.
Since Hitech doesn't answer you for obvious reasons while some of the long list of your ideas are interesting. Why don't you gents start a post where you list your idea with no personalizing, competitive justification, assaults on Hitech, or each other, and leave it at that? Add to it over time as you get new ideas ruminating on your thrones. Then Hitech will at least have a laundry list to look at until you guys can't take it anymore and 4chan it to death like your usual soap opera. I can hope it might last anyway. You may even stop your regular contribution to chasing away new customers.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: AAIK on August 17, 2019, 05:24:02 PM
Guys, HT isnt perfect but the issue of saving a dying game is a song that has been sung for many a decade. Games like Ultima online or Everquest have been attempting to reignite the flame, the critical mass for as long as they remember. Warbirds as well hasn't given up.
HT probably needs an acute study of the methods of failure of games so he can avoid the same fate.
There are no new ideas under the sun but you gotta focus on the basics, the fundamentals to succeed. Things like exposure...
Maybe what we need are stories, videos and songs that celebrate what AH was and legendify it. Tales that talk of what once was, what is and what will be. Maybe if we all accept that AH is dying we might spare it that fate. Songs and praise to lament what we lost...
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: FLOOB on August 17, 2019, 05:28:23 PM
I agree with the OP. Advertising AH as a free game is going to lead to a lot of disappointed people and some of them will leave a review.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: streakeagle on August 18, 2019, 05:36:37 PM
Step 1: People need to try the game. Step 2: People need to like the game enough to pay to stay.
Marketing principally affects the volume of Step 1. No amount of marketing will change Step 2.
No matter how good the game is, if people don't like it, they aren't going to pay to stay.
I know a lot of people between Tampa and Orlando. I know a lot of people all over the country. I even know some people outside the country. Not counting people I have met online through simming, and aside from one neighbor that loves FSX and intends to build a full-scale 737 pit, I don't know anyone that actually has the combination of time, interest, and money to play any flight sim. No one at work is even interested enough to come over and try my setup. Visitors to my house are amazed for a few minutes, then move on.
I know there are more people playing/flying than you see online in the forums of various games, but it feels like the relatively small online community is all there is. It is depressing. There is no shortage of shooter games or sports games, but most flying games are arcade quality and even then aren't nearly as popular as other genres.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: hazmatt on August 18, 2019, 06:30:34 PM
Why don't we focus on solutions we can do as players? I am not currently playing any online games but I would love to see this one survive.
World War II online has been hanging on for a long time but appears to be in the same situation. Granted there's a much more FPS to that game but it does have some flying involved.
They offered a "hero" program where people could pay more then the subscription fee if they wanted and got some perks from it which I don't recall.
They also do fund raisers on Gofundme or whatever it's called for special projects. Maybe we could fund some advertising drive?
Airshows air museums etc. Maybe focus on places where people who have an interest go?
Maybe offer free 40 eny planes that you can earn perks with but then you have to pay to use your perks?
Personally I think that smaller maps might make it not seem as empty. I remember we had some map in AW that had like 3 islands with bases and one in the middle that was nonstop fights in that area.
These are just some ideas off the top of my head. I think we should try to focus more on solutions if we're going to have this discussion again.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: streakeagle on August 18, 2019, 08:32:37 PM
I just saw Ace High pop up in the Oculus Rift store. The reviews are brutal. People can't even figure out the controls and give up. They don't know a good flight sim from a bad one, just whether or not it is easy to get flying have fun. It is a shame to see one of the best WW2 air combat flight sims ever made ridiculed because it is too complex for the average gamer.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 18, 2019, 09:27:23 PM
Really what should happen is that Warbirds, WWIIOnine, and Aces High should combine resources, man-power, and user-base, form a new combined company and produce a hybrid game that takes all the best ideas and puts them together.
There simply isn't a big enough online multi-player WWII market anymore to split 3 ways. All that is doing is bleeding 3 separate companies dry.
(Hunkering down for incoming....)
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 18, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
I just saw Ace High pop up in the Oculus Rift store. The reviews are brutal. People can't even figure out the controls and give up. They don't know a good flight sim from a bad one, just whether or not it is easy to get flying have fun. It is a shame to see one of the best WW2 air combat flight sims ever made ridiculed because it is too complex for the average gamer.
And yet, they will go play DCS and read an entire manual just to learn how to take off. I'll tell ya....
I do agree that a default stick and button and mouse layout would be very beneficial just to allow people to get into the air. Having to set up your stick axis is a bit too complicated... Get them in the air first, then they will be able to figure out how to set up their stick. It's really not that complicated once you figure it out ...
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: The Fugitive on August 18, 2019, 10:16:13 PM
And yet, they will go play DCS and read an entire manual just to learn how to take off. I'll tell ya....
I do agree that a default stick and button and mouse layout would be very beneficial just to allow people to get into the air. Having to set up your stick axis is a bit too complicated... Get them in the air first, then they will be able to figure out how to set up their stick. It's really not that complicated once you figure it out ...
THIS!!
Look at other games to see what there default buttons are and set the defaults like "most" games. Make a game pad work half decent in default mode so as soon as a new player logs in with a game pad the game detects it and the default setup is good enough to get them in the air.
Its time to cater to the new generation and make it easy for them. If it isnt they will just walk away.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Shuffler on August 18, 2019, 10:25:27 PM
And yet, they will go play DCS and read an entire manual just to learn how to take off. I'll tell ya....
I do agree that a default stick and button and mouse layout would be very beneficial just to allow people to get into the air. Having to set up your stick axis is a bit too complicated... Get them in the air first, then they will be able to figure out how to set up their stick. It's really not that complicated once you figure it out ...
Yup make the setup simple. Then they can adjust it.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: hazmatt on August 18, 2019, 10:43:19 PM
Any feedback on these ideas?
Why don't we focus on solutions we can do as players? I am not currently playing any online games but I would love to see this one survive.
World War II online has been hanging on for a long time but appears to be in the same situation. Granted there's a much more FPS to that game but it does have some flying involved.
They offered a "hero" program where people could pay more then the subscription fee if they wanted and got some perks from it which I don't recall.
They also do fund raisers on Gofundme or whatever it's called for special projects. Maybe we could fund some advertising drive?
Airshows air museums etc. Maybe focus on places where people who have an interest go?
Maybe offer free 40 eny planes that you can earn perks with but then you have to pay to use your perks?
Personally I think that smaller maps might make it not seem as empty. I remember we had some map in AW that had like 3 islands with bases and one in the middle that was nonstop fights in that area.
These are just some ideas off the top of my head. I think we should try to focus more on solutions if we're going to have this discussion again.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Bear76 on August 18, 2019, 11:02:14 PM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: bustr on August 19, 2019, 12:11:35 AM
4chan strikes back and shoots for revenge on Hitech along with helping run off potential new customers as part of seeking that revenge. You guys still can't let your failed insurrection trying to take over these forums against Hitech go. Reminds me of Hillary, 2016, and the Russia hoax once Skuzzy exposed you and bluberry. The muppets have not forgotten Hitech and Skuzzy derailed their attempt at pulling an Occupy Wall Street against his private property while dragging in and exposing all the other revenge seekers. The muppets want HTC to fail as their revenge for not capitulating to them.
Understand now my observation that you guys are doing free marketing for Hitech's competition driving away new customers with your need for revenge becasue you think Hitech is clueless about his industry.
Grizz you are sad and lame pulling this nonsense after all this time.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 19, 2019, 07:36:59 AM
Lol it's the vast muppet conspiracy!!
:rofl
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 19, 2019, 10:42:12 AM
Why don't we focus on solutions we can do as players? I am not currently playing any online games but I would love to see this one survive.
World War II online has been hanging on for a long time but appears to be in the same situation. Granted there's a much more FPS to that game but it does have some flying involved.
They offered a "hero" program where people could pay more then the subscription fee if they wanted and got some perks from it which I don't recall.
They also do fund raisers on Gofundme or whatever it's called for special projects. Maybe we could fund some advertising drive?
Airshows air museums etc. Maybe focus on places where people who have an interest go?
Maybe offer free 40 eny planes that you can earn perks with but then you have to pay to use your perks?
Personally I think that smaller maps might make it not seem as empty. I remember we had some map in AW that had like 3 islands with bases and one in the middle that was nonstop fights in that area.
These are just some ideas off the top of my head. I think we should try to focus more on solutions if we're going to have this discussion again.
It's all been beaten into the dust. Pretty much every "something must be done" post goes over the same things over and over again. Advertising will save us all. This selection from the standard list of 12 gameplay changes needs to be made immediately to reverse the number trend. Rinse, repeat.
HT's heard them all. Based on the last few years, they don't seem to have convinced him to make those changes. But, people seem to keep thinking the new thread will be the one to convince him, so here we are. Everybody's got their pet opinion on why things are the way they are.
HT's silence on stuff like this lets people project whatever they want onto him from "The game is dead and he's just riding it into the ground" to "He's busy working on broad sweeping changes to save the game." My personal view is we don't have enough information to see what's going on, but in this day and age gamers expect to be kept in the loop and when that doesn't happen, we get a thread similar to this one every week or two.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 19, 2019, 11:28:05 AM
It's all been beaten into the dust. Pretty much every "something must be done" post goes over the same things over and over again. Advertising will save us all. This selection from the standard list of 12 gameplay changes needs to be made immediately to reverse the number trend. Rinse, repeat.
Actually, you should be glad these threads still pop-up.
When all us silly Don Quixote types stop making suggestions is the point to really start worrying.
At that point, either the cadre of self-appointed Political Commissars have finally won out and stamped out the last discussions as signs of disloyalty to the Party, or people have just stopped giving a flip.
:salute
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: hitech on August 19, 2019, 11:35:44 AM
I read all this stuff, 99% of it is clueless dolts posting things they are passionate about but lack any information . Many times the posters have blinders on and don't see how many things have been tried that didn't produce results.
But then on occasion there are posts that actually do have a good idea. Most posts have no ideas at all they are nothing but grinding axes by players who have passed there exportation date.
In this thread there was one idea I liked.
HiTech
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 19, 2019, 11:42:04 AM
Actually, you should be glad these threads still pop-up.
When all us silly Don Quixote types stop making suggestions is the point to really start worrying.
At that point, either the cadre of self-appointed Political Commissars have finally won out and stamped out the last discussions as signs of disloyalty to the Party, or people have just stopped giving a flip.
:salute
My problem with it is, it's spinning our wheels. It's like the kids saying "Are we there yet?" over and over again. The suggestions are the same every time.
I'd much rather see different ideas that might be up for consideration and might work rather than rehashing the same ones from the last 10 years.
But advertising, maybe at air museums will apparently save us all.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 19, 2019, 11:48:08 AM
I read all this stuff, 99% of it is clueless dolts posting things they are passionate about but lack any information . Many times the posters have blinders on and don't see how many things have been tried that didn't produce results.
No doubt. However in my experience you want to encourage a constant fire-hose of ideas knowing full well that 99% will be crap. But that is the price you pay to find that 1% of gold. 99% of all ideas in the history of Mankind have been crap. The only thing worse than that, is no ideas. Or worse, good ideas that don't get offered because they are not welcomed.
Certainly you have a right to expect the discussions are kept civil with the intention of being helpful.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 19, 2019, 12:01:49 PM
But advertising, maybe at air museums will apparently save us all.
Yeah. Well. I had a delightfully snarky response typed out about maybe we should try a bake sale, etc. But I deleted that because I don't want to discourage the guy from brain-storming. I wish his second post had been more ideas instead of simply cut and pasting the previous ones, but instead of shooting him down, I'd rather say "interesting, what else?" Snarking is easy. Creative problem-solving is hard.
I'm willing to have to wade through a bunch of bad ideas looking for good ones. But the fastest way to shut off the spigot would be to humiliate people for trying.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 19, 2019, 12:17:18 PM
Yeah. Well. I had a delightfully snarky response typed out about maybe we should try a bake sale, etc. But I deleted that because I don't want to discourage the guy from brain-storming. I wish his second post had been more ideas instead of simply cut and pasting the previous ones, but instead of shooting him down, I'd rather say "interesting, what else?" Snarking is easy. Creative problem-solving is hard.
I'm willing to have to wade through a bunch of bad ideas looking for good ones. But the fastest way to shut off the spigot would be to humiliate people for trying.
That's swell, but a lot of people take "This is why it hasn't been done." as an attack. It's not "Interesting". It's been done to death. But people don't want to hear about "What else?" all they want to hear is discussion of whether it's a good idea, or a really good idea.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 19, 2019, 12:29:14 PM
Really what should happen is that Warbirds, WWIIOnine, and Aces High should combine resources, man-power, and user-base, form a new combined company and produce a hybrid game that takes all the best ideas and puts them together.
There simply isn't a big enough online multi-player WWII market anymore to split 3 ways. All that is doing is bleeding 3 separate companies dry.
(Hunkering down for incoming....)
That's a nice idea. Not really sure what WBs would bring to the table, as it's more or less an earlier iteration of AH. I wonder what the compromises to mash AH and WWIIOnline together would look like.
Odds of it happening?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 19, 2019, 12:40:51 PM
That's swell, but a lot of people take "This is why it hasn't been done." as an attack. It's not "Interesting". It's been done to death. But people don't want to hear about "What else?" all they want to hear is discussion of whether it's a good idea, or a really good idea.
Or it could be that is a perfectly awesome idea and I'm too stubborn and close-minded to see it. That's a possibility too. I've seen lots of ideas in my experience that would have been easy to shoot holes in at first that later, with work proved to be really great ideas.
When the first automobiles were made they were laughed at. Except for limit use-cases in urban centers for delivery, they were completely impractical. Not enough of a distribution system for the fuel, not enough skilled mechanics to keep them running, impractical for all the rural dirt roads. There were a million reason skeptics could point to and claim they were a waste of time. To a large extent they had valid concerns, yet the sub-problems were solved. The visionaries who we laughed by the people who "knew" eventually turned out to be right.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 19, 2019, 12:47:45 PM
Or it could be that is a perfectly awesome idea and I'm too stubborn and close-minded to see it. That's a possibility too. I've seen lots of ideas in my experience that would have been easy to shoot holes in at first that later, with work proved to be really great ideas.
When the first automobiles were made they were laughed at. Except for limit use-cases in urban centers for delivery, they were completely impractical. Not enough of a distribution system for the fuel, not enough skilled mechanics to keep them running, impractical for all the rural dirt roads. There were a million reason skeptics could point to and claim they were a waste of time. To a large extent they had valid concerns, yet the sub-problems were solved. The visionaries who we laughed by the people who "knew" eventually turned out to be right.
Which is usually the kind of thing people first post when someone shoots holes. They rarely move to the all important "yet the sub problems were solved" step. That happens through discussion, not agreement.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: hazmatt on August 19, 2019, 12:53:58 PM
I threw some ideas out off the top of my head hoping that it would get others to think of their own ideas.
I believe that if we want to come up with a solution we throw out our ideas, which make other people think of other ideas which they throw out there which makes other people think of ideas etc.
I never said my ideas were going to be any good. My goal was to get others to think instead of complain.
I could care less if you say all my ideas suck, but, if you do, please sprinkle a little of your genius ideas in here instead of just beaching
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 19, 2019, 01:00:09 PM
However, if you do think all my ideas are crap, please bless us all with a little of Your genius ideas to help us move this forward in a positive direction instead of another beachfest.
Never said that. I've just said they've all come up before.
I have in the past. There's no productivity in belaboring the points.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 19, 2019, 01:16:31 PM
That's a nice idea. Not really sure what WBs would bring to the table, as it's more or less an earlier iteration of AH. I wonder what the compromises to mash AH and WWIIOnline together would look like.
Well, WB does have some residual customers. Not as many, but every bit helps.
They still seem to have more name recognition. I don't know why, but they do. I guess just left over glow from the heyday. With their relationship with Microprose, they could bring more press recognition to reforming a combined company. Wild Bill is a dork, but he is a salesman. You don't put someone like that in charge for cripes sake, but they do have their use, properly supervised. A successful company needs a salesman. You need someone out there beating the bushes, smoozing, take press out to lunch, getting free advertising making interviews, making deals, etc. The kind of stuff engineers neglect because they hate that kind of stuff. I'm sure he still has lots of contacts in industry that could be useful and guys like that aren't shy about picking up the phone.
HTC I believe has hands-down the best flight and vehicle model. I also believe their terrain system is superior.
WWIIOL has at least a basic infantry system. It needs work, but it's something. Alpha-dog pilots can sneer and laugh, but that really help broaden the appeal and I'm not sure there are enough flightsim purists left to support a company anymore. I also think their supply and higher level strategic layers have the possibilities.
Bottom line, 3 companies splitting that market simply mean none of them can get enough critical-mass to be healthy and have the resources needed to move forward at a reasonable pace.
You end up with zombie-companies they can just keep the lights on, barely. Yet with bandwidth and server hosting prices coming down over the last two decades, even a company with volunteer developers can limp along for quite a while.
Now I suspect we are headed for another economic downturn in a year or two. That might be the final straw. When that tide goes out, we might figure out who's been skinny-dipping. So maybe two of the three go belly up and release some market to keep the third alive. My fear is none of them have the reserves to survive that stress and all 3 die off and the genre vanishes completely. I hope I'm wrong.
I just watched a bit of WWIIOL footage to be sure, but IMO the FPS there suffers from the same thing it does here. Look at gameplay from there, look at BF4. Graphically, it's like looking at something from the Quake era. I understand why that is. IMO the vast majority of gamers don't care about that. All they see is less fidelity. Chasing that market seems to me to be at best an extremely uphill battle.
Unless the gameplay for the FPS is absolutely mindblowing, they're just not going to get past the graphics.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 19, 2019, 01:41:42 PM
Actually, further to that, I wonder what Wild Bill's reputation is? As players, there's a lot of people in here who have a less than favorable opinion of him. We saw the reaction the new Microprose stuff got in the O club. I'm curious what people who are actually involved in the industry think of him.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 19, 2019, 02:18:58 PM
Unless the gameplay for the FPS is absolutely mindblowing, they're just not going to get past the graphics.
Well, like I said, it needs work. ;) However, they have been building some knowledge and expertise and could get better over time. It is it's own knowledge domain just like flightsims.
I do think that given an unique genre and scope that can't be found anywhere else, some level of forgiveness will be allowed for less than AAA graphics.
One reason I think things could improve is that they are apparently moving to Unreal 4. Once they have moved away from a proprietary system, it is much easier to find permanent or temporary talent to move the product forward. More resource flexibility. You also are offloading engine development to a team of people who specialize in that and dedicate their lives to pixels. Your team can them focus more of your unique content and experience creation rather than the low level plumbing.
Also you open yourself up to huge libraries of pre-made inexpensive components that you can leverage just by plugging them in. The modern platform asset stores are impressive. The kind of stuff you can find for less than $100 is amazing considering the amount of work it work take if you did it yourself. https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/3d/characters/animated-ww2-characters-128368 (https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/3d/characters/animated-ww2-characters-128368) https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/templates/systems/ufps-ultimate-fps-106748 (https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/templates/systems/ufps-ultimate-fps-106748)
Of course, it's all in the implementation, but moving to Unreal might help them greatly accelerate their quality improvement by leverage a larger ecosystem.
Now, if they asked me I would have suggested Unity instead. I wouldn't have said that 2-4 years ago, but I'd say that now. Unreal is certainly a reasonable choice, and in the past it was clearly superior, but I think Unity has caught up now and will probably surpass them. I think C# is just so much more productive an environment and C# developers are so much more prevalent now days. Which means talent will be easier to find and less expensive. But Unreal is nothing to sneeze at.
....other topic
I think people would have much more respect for Wild Bill as VP of Sales than they would as CEO. Everyone has a skill. It's about finding the right role and fit. There have been plenty of salesmen who made companies I've worked for millions that I'd never consider putting in charge of anything. That doesn't mean they can't sell/market. I know I couldn't do that, so you need those guys.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 19, 2019, 02:30:15 PM
Why would Dale even consider teaming up with his old WarBirds game that he built/designed and owned, and sold (and who knows? He might even still possibly drawing royalties off of, depending on the details of the selling of it)
As for Steam, and Steam Marketing.... I don't care much for Steam, they remind me of the IEN gaming network, back when they hosted Nascar Racing in the 90's.....
Steam should allow HTC the ability to remove disgruntled reviews.... That are blatantly clear that they are posting just to make Aces High look bad.....but from what I have seen, Steam doesn't have the integrity or Class, to Acknowledge and help HTC when and where they should.....they just are another money grubbing outfit...
My view on the matter
TC
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 19, 2019, 02:34:12 PM
Why would Dale even consider teaming up with his old WarBirds game that he built/designed and owned, and sold (and who knows? He might even still possibly drawing royalties off of, depending on the details of the selling of it)
Why did Steve Jobs go back to Apple?
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 19, 2019, 02:54:46 PM
Well, like I said, it needs work. ;) However, they have been building some knowledge and expertise and could get better over time. It is it's own knowledge domain just like flightsims.
I do think that given an unique genre and scope that can't be found anywhere else, some level of forgiveness will be allowed for less than AAA graphics.
Hehe... I believe our estimates of what level of forgiveness there is would be separated somewhat. ;)
Quote
One reason I think things could improve is that they are apparently moving to Unreal 4. Once they have moved away from a proprietary system, it is much easier to find permanent or temporary talent to move the product forward. More resource flexibility. You also are offloading engine development to a team of people who specialize in that and dedicate their lives to pixels. Your team can them focus more of your unique content and experience creation rather than the low level plumbing.
Also you open yourself up to huge libraries of pre-made inexpensive components that you can leverage just by plugging them in. The modern platform asset stores are impressive. The kind of stuff you can find for less than $100 is amazing considering the amount of work it work take if you did it yourself. https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/3d/characters/animated-ww2-characters-128368 (https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/3d/characters/animated-ww2-characters-128368) https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/templates/systems/ufps-ultimate-fps-106748 (https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/templates/systems/ufps-ultimate-fps-106748)
Of course, it's all in the implementation, but moving to Unreal might help them greatly accelerate their quality improvement by leverage a larger ecosystem.
By "They" going to Unreal do you mean WWIIOL or AH? I assume WWIIOL.
Quote
Now, if they asked me I would have suggested Unity instead. I wouldn't have said that 2-4 years ago, but I'd say that now. Unreal is certainly a reasonable choice, and in the past it was clearly superior, but I think Unity has caught up now and will probably surpass them. I think C# is just so much more productive an environment and C# developers are so much more prevalent now days. Which means talent will be easier to find and less expensive. But Unreal is nothing to sneeze at.
....other topic
I think people would have much more respect for Wild Bill as VP of Sales than they would as CEO. Everyone has a skill. It's about finding the right role and fit. There have been plenty of salesmen who made companies I've worked for millions that I'd never consider putting in charge of anything. That doesn't mean they can't sell/market. I know I couldn't do that, so you need those guys.
Yup. I don't know. My experience where it appeared it was Wild Bill making the decisions gave me a distinct used car vibe. Like you say, maybe it's the role but I tend to trust my gut explicitly when I get that feeling. It says "Do not trust."
And to drag it back to the OP like I meant to last post... I think it was an enormous mistake to list this as free to play on Steam. Regardless of reality, if gamers perceive you're "trying to pull a fast one" they're savage. You nailed it on the head, it's not about being technically right it's about winning. When I first saw it was listed as free I really thought that was a horrible idea.
What someone really needs to do is grab the engine from Star Citizen and put it to use on something like this game. The size of the maps is miniscule compared to a planet, so you could cram in way more detail to everything. I wonder if they could just bolt HTC's network stuff onto it and have the limiting factor be the graphics...
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: AAIK on August 19, 2019, 03:02:36 PM
HT, you want a hug?
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 19, 2019, 03:03:23 PM
Yup. I don't know. My experience where it appeared it was Wild Bill making the decisions gave me a distinct used car vibe. Like you say, maybe it's the role but I tend to trust my gut explicitly when I get that feeling. It says "Do not trust."
Yeah, well, so has ever salesman I've ever worked with at every company. I just assumed that's how they are all. Somehow they still sell. It's what they do. :D
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 19, 2019, 03:05:17 PM
Yeah, well, so has ever salesman I've ever worked with at every company. I just assumed that's how they are all. Somehow they still sell. It's what they do. :D
Heh. I've seen good ones. Maybe they were just better than my BS detector. ;)
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 19, 2019, 03:08:42 PM
He went back to the company he had created and put the best years of his youth in to. He went back to save his first love from clueless dolts who were destroying it. Who were squandering it's potential. He went back to save Apple from the Devil he had made a deal with, because he thought it would grow the company. I'm pretty sure he was the only person who could have saved Apple at that time.
Don't get me wrong. I think Steve Jobs was an azhole on many levels. He deserved to get fired the first time. But I do give him credit for going back and turning it around. It was a bold move. At the time, the smart money said it was almost a sure losing bet. Why jump on board a surely sinking ship for the final drop beneath the waves and probably get the final blame?
Sure, Next wasn't doing great, but with his name recognition he could have gotten any number of safer CEO jobs in Silicon Valley. It was a huge roll of the dice. And I think he had matured and learned a lot during his years in the wilderness. He was a much smarter CEO when he came back, and the turn around he pulled off was really quite amazing.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: guncrasher on August 19, 2019, 04:18:06 PM
yeah, i just hope that idea isnt to ban from the bb anybody that post the sky is falling.
semp
No worries, I'm sure nonsense is still allowed, just poor manners are discouraged.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: yipi on August 21, 2019, 05:02:42 AM
let them have freee accounts for a year. But limit their planes to spits an xero, but all bombers should be available. free GVs would be good focusting on fighters Is a waste of timr Till they learn;..
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: guncrasher on August 21, 2019, 08:57:55 AM
1/2 the current subscribers would quit paying.
Semp
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: AAIK on August 21, 2019, 12:27:38 PM
I read all this stuff, 99% of it is clueless dolts posting things they are passionate about but lack any information . Many times the posters have blinders on and don't see how many things have been tried that didn't produce results.
But then on occasion there are posts that actually do have a good idea. Most posts have no ideas at all they are nothing but grinding axes by players who have passed there exportation date.
In this thread there was one idea I liked.
HiTech
With all respects HT, if your ideas worked we wouldn't be here complaining. We would be engorging on the gameplay/players and too busy enjoying ourself to even bother complaining. Its not very respectful to cast people as clueless dolts...
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 21, 2019, 12:43:43 PM
With all respects HT, if your ideas worked we wouldn't be here complaining. We would be engorging on the gameplay/players and too busy enjoying ourself to even bother complaining. Its not very respectful to cast people as clueless dolts...
You quoting HT's post and then respond as if you are taking it "personally", regarding the clueless dolts....
Posting that makes you look more like a "wet behind the ears lemming" that has actually pointed out that you are only here to complain that the game is not set up for the way "YOU" want it and upsets "YOU", because HiTech will not bend to "YOUR" wants....
How it looks from here....
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 21, 2019, 12:56:25 PM
With all respects HT, if your ideas worked we wouldn't be here complaining. We would be engorging on the gameplay/players and too busy enjoying ourself to even bother complaining. Its not very respectful to cast people as clueless dolts...
Ok, "dolt" might be a bridge too far, but would you characterize the 80th person to post a thread about advertising saving us all as having a clue?
Wiley.
(and this is why if I were HT I would have an intern that monitors the boards, as opposed to doing it myself)
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: hazmatt on August 21, 2019, 01:04:46 PM
I find it humorous that I posted some stuff off the top of my head to maybe get some new ideas flowing but instead of that it's turned into the same thing that these threads always do. lolz
I suspect there is some idea out there that could increase the numbers in the game. I believe that somewhere in the world people there are people who would be interested in this game. Maybe I'm just a optimistic dolt?
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: CptTrips on August 21, 2019, 01:21:29 PM
With all respects HT, if your ideas worked we wouldn't be here complaining.
Well, to be fair, the vast majority of his ideas do work, and have for 20 years, or we wouldn't have a game to complain about. No one can get 100% right 100% of the time.
But, just because something has been suggested 100 times doesn't make it wrong. And just because Hitech likes an idea doesn't make it right, and just because he doesn't like an idea doesn't make it wrong.
But it is his rice bowl at risk, so in the end it's his call.
[Edit] In my opinion, Hitech is willing to listen a surprising amount. More than some of his customers. Try telling EA what you want. Somethings you can convince him on, some things you don't. Yet. :cool:
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Hungry on August 21, 2019, 01:29:14 PM
Either way, calling posters to your bbs in a "marketing" thread Dolts, lol, every marketing manager Ive ever worked for is shaking his head in disbelief
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: FLS on August 21, 2019, 02:23:19 PM
Did you read the ideas?
Hitech is talking about the wish list generally not just this thread, this thread is an example where he found an idea he liked. :D
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 21, 2019, 02:31:30 PM
What bugs me is how people freak out when they're given an honest opinion versus being given some marketing doublespeak "We here at company x deeply value your input. Please, do tell us what other barely-thought-out ideas you have?" blahblah. To me, that's completely meaningless. It's like placating a child.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Hungry on August 21, 2019, 03:21:40 PM
point being in marketing 101, never insult your customer base 99% I believe is what he said about this thread.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: bustr on August 21, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
So he's supposed to take it in the nads by clueless dolts infinitum and pat them on the head with participation trophies and tell them they are advertising geniuses because they can use their keyboard? I agree with Hitech, clueless dolts and personal ax grinders of dead axes.
So far since the era of freemium pay to win took over with the 2008 global economic crash to sucker people into spending money to get their fix. Most of the marketing geniuses by the end of their sales pitch end up telling Hitech, make it free and they will come. Then they poise themselves to get their victim outrage fix when they are not agreed with and insult Hitech for being mean to them.
You guys should be paying Hitech for the free victim outrage fix you get here in his forums. That might pay for all of the "free" you peddle him as free marketing advice.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 21, 2019, 03:24:44 PM
cant say what needs to be said it would bounce right off anyway
Heaven forfend people have a difference of opinion.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Hungry on August 21, 2019, 04:46:43 PM
Heaven forbid people have an open mind. Difference of opinion is one thing cast in stone is another.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: hazmatt on August 21, 2019, 04:54:13 PM
I was thinking to maybe print up some flyers and see if I could leave them at the Dayton air museum or maybe hand out some at air shows. It sounded like people thing this was a dumb idea?
I'm willing to do something, but I would like to do something that would have some effect.
Anybody have some better ideas?
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 21, 2019, 06:44:14 PM
Yeah, address the problems that are causing new players not to stick around for their 2 week trial. Unfortunately, there isn't a magic band aid solution and there are multiple reasons why new players aren't stick around.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Biggamer on August 21, 2019, 06:48:35 PM
free to play aint gonna work on aces high. Iracing aint free to play. World of Warcraft aint free to play they are doing just fine same monthly sub fees as we got.
it has been years since we have had a new ride put in the game what is people supposed to do once bored with whats in the game.
all these other games release new content all the time they don't go 3 months without putting something out and some even faster then that.
keep bringing new content to the game so people don't got time to get bored.
if it wasn't for bustr I don't think we would have anything new to look at every update released is for bug fixes for VR that 98% of the community don't have.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: FLS on August 21, 2019, 06:54:40 PM
I was thinking to maybe print up some flyers and see if I could leave them at the Dayton air museum or maybe hand out some at air shows. It sounded like people thing this was a dumb idea?
I'm willing to do something, but I would like to do something that would have some effect.
Anybody have some better ideas?
I think talking to people who might be interested is as much marketing as we need to worry about.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: FLS on August 21, 2019, 07:11:32 PM
Heaven forbid people have an open mind. Difference of opinion is one thing cast in stone is another.
Sounds like you think people should change their minds to agree with you. Is it OK to have an open mind and think you're wrong?
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: guncrasher on August 21, 2019, 07:32:57 PM
you know just about 100% of the ideas here have been proposed dozens of times before. some have been implemented like well steam, it has thousands and thousands of downloads and a few dozen players that perhaps stuck around. others are just plain silly, let's give them spits and zeroes for free. hell yeah, subscribers would stop paying and we would have world of spits and zeroes. advertise, hitech has mentioned before it's not a good return on investment. I saw an ad for aces high on history chanel, i think, a year before I subscribed. I subscribed because my old squadies told me about this game. not sure if we still have the we pay you if you bring subscribers options, think that worked in the beginning, not lately.
what the answer is, I dont now. but dont get your panties in a bunch because you think your unique idea is not gonna work mostly because it has been proposed before and it wasnt a good idea then either.
I do know this thing works for sure. tell your friends about it, maybe hitech could add a box when they subscribe naming you as a referal. I dont know pay a buck or two towards your subscription for as long as the other player is a subscriber.
word of mouth works better than anything else. I belong to the legion and I tell them I have a mission, I'll see you tomorrow, they all wish me luck and next day I come in and I give them short stories or make up bs to make me the greatest player in aces high history. they laugh, but I do know this, some are interested and if they could afford a computer, I would teach them at least how to get off the runway. some have come to my house and while hesitating to play if I had the money I would hook them all up and make a new squad, pigs on the wing with walkers.
semp
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Hungry on August 21, 2019, 08:01:08 PM
Sounds like you think people should change their minds to agree with you. Is it OK to have an open mind and think you're wrong?
That was a response to Wiley, sure as long as its open to both ways, you must admit there are some here that are very close minded. I must point out in my original post I wasn't debating or downing opinions, I simply pointed out that calling a section of your subscribers Dolts may not have been the best approach. Other words and phrasing would have gotten the point across just as well
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Biggamer on August 21, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
another idea could be "recruit a friend system" if you bring a friend into the game you get 1 free month on your account so does the new recruit also the new recruit has a 5.0 perk bonus multiplier for the entire month he/she has free.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Vraciu on August 21, 2019, 08:09:45 PM
Marketing not the issue.
Poor introductory interface the issue.
Noobs are lost before they begin.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: The Fugitive on August 21, 2019, 08:50:47 PM
you know just about 100% of the ideas here have been proposed dozens of times before. some have been implemented like well steam, it has thousands and thousands of downloads and a few dozen players that perhaps stuck around. others are just plain silly, let's give them spits and zeroes for free. hell yeah, subscribers would stop paying and we would have world of spits and zeroes. advertise, hitech has mentioned before it's not a good return on investment. I saw an ad for aces high on history chanel, i think, a year before I subscribed. I subscribed because my old squadies told me about this game. not sure if we still have the we pay you if you bring subscribers options, think that worked in the beginning, not lately.
what the answer is, I dont now. but dont get your panties in a bunch because you think your unique idea is not gonna work mostly because it has been proposed before and it wasnt a good idea then either.
I do know this thing works for sure. tell your friends about it, maybe hitech could add a box when they subscribe naming you as a referal. I dont know pay a buck or two towards your subscription for as long as the other player is a subscriber.
word of mouth works better than anything else. I belong to the legion and I tell them I have a mission, I'll see you tomorrow, they all wish me luck and next day I come in and I give them short stories or make up bs to make me the greatest player in aces high history. they laugh, but I do know this, some are interested and if they could afford a computer, I would teach them at least how to get off the runway. some have come to my house and while hesitating to play if I had the money I would hook them all up and make a new squad, pigs on the wing with walkers.
semp
I have been playing the game for almost 18 years now..... I have kinda run out of people to tell about the game.
The "top story" on the web page is the F4F update from May 2017, more than 2 years ago.
Adding free planes and tanks to the game isnt going to cut a lot of subscriptions. Would you cut yours if you couldnt fly the pony only to fly the "free" planes allowed? I doubt that. I think seeing as the majority of players that have stayed are very much ok with paying the subscription and many have been here for years..... far past the time "most players get tired of a game and move on from".
Yes the game game is a "nitch" type game, but if there is enough elements to make it appealing, or not so many things that turn players off more new players will play it. Look at "call of Duty". A WWII FPS game and it draw thousands of players. Why, because it has quick action and is easy to learn and get started in it. This game must be adjusted to work better with "todays" gamers as apposed to the rest of us.
Steam was a great addition, but HTC wasn't ready. Poor marketing and only half done VR killed the postings and now do nothing but warn away any new player. A relaunch with things that address those issues could help. Paying some steam "video gods" to re post about the game in its new format could go a long way in rubbing that tarnish off what is said about the game at steam.
Again, if HTC would be a bit more vocal about what and where they are going with the game players could help. "IF" HTC is would do a re-release at steam, the rest of us could help by flooding the steam boards with "positive" post about the game and the "new" format..... what ever it may be. If none of us hears anything "official" from HTC then we have nothing to push, promote, or can "spread the word". Everything is "hearsay".
Personally, as a customer I'd rather hear the truth than have smoke blown up my backside.
Wiley.
I'd rather hear the truth a bit more often! In a world where it seems to lean more towards "What have you done for me lately?" building a new server setup over the last year just isnt enough.
What can we look forward too other than maybe one more "Bustr" map?
Title: Steam Marketing
Post by: Ciaphas on August 21, 2019, 08:58:24 PM
Aces high Sits in an interesting but difficult spot within the "subscription" based genre.
most sub based games have content injections at a rate that keeps the player interested. It would be hard to do in AH because of the type of content it already has.
We have a one shoe fits all asset list for bases, ships etc. These never change in design.
We have more aircraft than any other game of this kind and frankly adding more doesn't really have a "value added" appeal when you have the same ground content and two types of tile sets (Pacific and European) to use the content on.
So to add content that would keep the player wanting would be difficult.
The interface does feel dated and in my opinion needs some updating and there should be a step through mission for new players that would show them the basics of the UI, mapping controllers, take off and landing and how to fire guns, switch secondary weapons and how to fire their secondary weapons in all types of airframes (fighter, attack, GV and bombers)
I still don't think that will be enough but it would be a good start.
gamers these days like to see change in their gaming environments and in AH we have essentially the same buildings, trees, bases etc... on every map. It can get monotonous at times.
** While the software the HiTech uses is pretty cool, I think that other modeling applications would come in handy. All that is needed is the scale requirements, LOD file tree and the damage file tree requirements. **
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: FLS on August 21, 2019, 09:44:50 PM
That was a response to Wiley, sure as long as its open to both ways, you must admit there are some here that are very close minded. I must point out in my original post I wasn't debating or downing opinions, I simply pointed out that calling a section of your subscribers Dolts may not have been the best approach. Other words and phrasing would have gotten the point across just as well
Now you're being tactful. That wasn't so hard. :aok
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Shuffler on August 21, 2019, 10:29:28 PM
Either way, calling posters to your bbs in a "marketing" thread Dolts, lol, every marketing manager Ive ever worked for is shaking his head in disbelief
He didn't call everyone a dolt.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Volron on August 21, 2019, 10:54:58 PM
free to play aint gonna work on aces high. Iracing aint free to play. World of Warcraft aint free to play they are doing just fine same monthly sub fees as we got.
it has been years since we have had a new ride put in the game what is people supposed to do once bored with whats in the game.
all these other games release new content all the time they don't go 3 months without putting something out and some even faster then that.
keep bringing new content to the game so people don't got time to get bored.
if it wasn't for bustr I don't think we would have anything new to look at every update released is for bug fixes for VR that 98% of the community don't have.
Let's point out the obvious problem with your comparison:
iRacing Team: A lot bigger than HTC.
World of Warcraft Team: Significantly bigger than HTC, and probably larger than iRacing's Team I would suspect.
Now, for some reason, I just cannot understand how or why they are able to bump out content "regularly" while HTC cannot.... (https://frm-wows-us.wgcdn.co/wows_forum_us/emoticons/cap_hmm.gif)
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: FLOOB on August 22, 2019, 01:10:24 AM
AH had a large influx of subscribers due to AH tv ad. But I guess it wasn’t enough to offset the advertising cost? The new player retention rate has basically stayed the same throughout the boom and the bust. To me that suggests that public ignorance of the existence of AH is hurting us more than trial player retention rate. I think that is where we need to start. I don't believe there is much we can do to influence the new player retention rate. Most gamers just aren't going to like AH, period. Just not most peeps cup of tea.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: guncrasher on August 22, 2019, 01:54:31 AM
Let's point out the obvious problem with your comparison:
iRacing Team: A lot bigger than HTC.
World of Warcraft Team: Significantly bigger than HTC, and probably larger than iRacing's Team I would suspect.
Now, for some reason, I just cannot understand how or why they are able to bump out content "regularly" while HTC cannot.... (https://frm-wows-us.wgcdn.co/wows_forum_us/emoticons/cap_hmm.gif)
it's a different game. for example wot has tanks that only existed on napkin drawings. so would you like hitech to bring out, I dont know the pony with 4 cannons? I would love to have it but really do you want korea era jets or Vietnam jets, hell I would fly the f14 and mig 28's against zeros and spits. that would be fun.
semp
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Max on August 22, 2019, 07:03:08 AM
Yeah, address the problems that are causing new players not to stick around for their 2 week trial. Unfortunately, there isn't a magic band aid solution and there are multiple reasons why new players aren't stick around.
Had it not been for H2H I wouldn't be here today. Prior to Air Warrior's demise, a squaddie suggested I give AH a try...which was in it's very early days. On 2 different occasions, I entered the MA and had no clue what to do...zip, nada, gesphincto. A few weeks later I tried the head to head 8 player module and found a couple of folks playing, who got me off the ground...literally. At which point I was able to match my skills in AH with those already acquired in AW, I signed up for the trial. Luckily, a former player/trained (Ghosth) used to hang around the TA and was kind enough further educate me on the finer points of the game. None of that exists today. Bring back a free,limited (8 - 12) person arena for folks to make the transition with as I did. The free player arena option that exists today doesn't work, simply because no noob will know how to set it up. Ditch the Capture The Sheep and bring back an unhackable H2H.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Shuffler on August 22, 2019, 07:25:40 AM
When we had H2H one person had to set the room up back then. It had to be hosted. What killed it was folks doing stupid stuff with the code.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Vraciu on August 22, 2019, 07:33:03 AM
Let's point out the obvious problem with your comparison:
iRacing Team: A lot bigger than HTC.
World of Warcraft Team: Significantly bigger than HTC, and probably larger than iRacing's Team I would suspect.
Now, for some reason, I just cannot understand how or why they are able to bump out content "regularly" while HTC cannot.... (https://frm-wows-us.wgcdn.co/wows_forum_us/emoticons/cap_hmm.gif)
even with there small team we should be getting new planes and vehicles added to this game content is what keeps all games alive we don't get any content unless its player made how would iracing be doing if they never did anything but bug fixes and didn't add anything new or how would world of Warcraft be doing with out new content they would be doing how aces high is right now going tits up
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: hitech on August 22, 2019, 08:17:41 AM
Bring back a free,limited (8 - 12) person arena for folks to make the transition with as I did. The free player arena option that exists today doesn't work, simply because no noob will know how to set it up. Ditch the Capture The Sheep and bring back an unhackable H2H.
Well that was a screwup Hitech won’t be repeating. :banana:
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: puller on August 22, 2019, 08:21:23 AM
I really don't think people understand that the custom arenas and like WWI are free...maybe this needs to be pushed more...
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 22, 2019, 09:39:40 AM
I really don't think people understand that the custom arenas and like WWI are free...maybe this needs to be pushed more...
The thing is, gamers don't just want to play something, they want to have progression and a goal. A few outliers aside, to most people outside of events, the MA is "the game".
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Shuffler on August 22, 2019, 01:00:16 PM
Well that was a screwup Hitech won’t be repeating. :banana:
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Slate on August 22, 2019, 01:27:49 PM
I have played WOT for a few years now and have never spent a dime. :bolt: and never will. 14.95/ month for AH is worth it to me because I got hooked and can't find an experience out there that compares. (I do play a quick WOT when on long flight though) HTC has said many try but do not stay and I think it may have to do with the difficulty getting started. I applaud the attempt to get players up to speed with the voice when logging in but they need more of an automated ground school if that were possible. I remember Call of Duty made you go through basic training, how to shoot, change guns, throw hand grenade, ect.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 22, 2019, 01:51:11 PM
Quote
** While the software the HiTech uses is pretty cool, I think that other modeling applications would come in handy. All that is needed is the scale requirements, LOD file tree and the damage file tree requirements. **
You must not have seen all the custom terrains and custom objects, tiles, water, clouds, etc...., that USRanger has created in the past for the AvA arena!
Or the custom features designed for scenarios, including custom plane skins built into the terrains
Or the custom features designed by Dux back for the 2nd and 3rd Training Arena designs (iirc, we are currently using an edited version of the 3rd Training Arena terrain design)
I've posted it before, that most of the player base are not aware of what the new graphics engine is capable of! We are seeing roughly 20 to 25% of it's capabilities.....but the more that is built/designed/included affects everyones framerate and playability, which is a balancing act that HTC has a pretty good grasp on, allowing people with lesser equipment to play along side with those that can afford the very best equipment
I don't see where there is a need for HiTech to need other graphics/3D design software
TC
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Wiley on August 22, 2019, 01:53:24 PM
I have played WOT for a few years now and have never spent a dime. :bolt: and never will. 14.95/ month for AH is worth it to me because I got hooked and can't find an experience out there that compares. (I do play a quick WOT when on long flight though) HTC has said many try but do not stay and I think it may have to do with the difficulty getting started. I applaud the attempt to get players up to speed with the voice when logging in but they need more of an automated ground school if that were possible. I remember Call of Duty made you go through basic training, how to shoot, change guns, throw hand grenade, ect.
That's the first thing I'd be working on. DCS had something similar with training missions with stuff like "Press E to start engine." "Pull back on stick" "Press G to raise gear". All happening as you did it. If you remapped stuff, it updated the instructions to whatever your bindings were. Same with Elite Dangerous.
I'd have that kind of stuff come up until you disable it, have something like "Hit x to disable hints" with each message like that.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: bustr on August 22, 2019, 02:06:05 PM
TC,
For the majority of customers the MA is Hitech's only chance to show case the game. It took me 3 back to back MA terrains to have the experience to create fjordma using only the objects and the limitations set by Hitech for the MA. Heck I now have a stream lined gunnery\bombing practice terrain that would be a better choice to ship with the full download as the default offline terrain. At least the total newbie would be able to practice anything that goes boom easily with some embedded HELP instructions on a popout and a pre set var file. It won't take the place of learning ACM from the Trainers but, it will feed the need of a gamer to dink around with the game alone to learn how to make things go boom. Everything....
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 22, 2019, 02:22:27 PM
Yeah Bustr, I'm aware of that...as I know that we are going to need (er HTC is) to find a way to get new players to stay longer than the current average time
I was just responding to Ciaphas' thoughts on HiTech using other design software (might of been best to PM it to him)
Interesting idea, including(replacing the current default offline terrain/Map) your new gunnery/bombing practice terrain in the game download
That should be a mere minute swap out and I think should be done.... Hopefully HiTech will consider it
TC
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Ciaphas on August 22, 2019, 02:37:37 PM
Yeah Bustr, I'm aware of that...as I know that we are going to need (er HTC is) to find a way to get new players to stay longer than the current average time
I was just responding to Ciaphas' thoughts on HiTech using other design software (might of been best to PM it to him)
Interesting idea, including(replacing the current default offline terrain/Map) your new gunnery/bombing practice terrain in the game download
That should be a mere minute swap out and I think should be done.... Hopefully HiTech will consider it
TC
You took it out of context, kind of. It wasn't a jab Hitech but food for thought about creating more assets packages that go along the same lines as the tile sets (europe and pacific).
Creating structures that resemble say, Russian construction for an eastern European tileset, Scandinavian structural design and a Scandinavian tileset etc...
The "different" software was a way of saying "hey, we can help build these and still follow the same structure" as the the software he is currently using.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: bustr on August 22, 2019, 02:39:00 PM
If Hitech would like to look at it for the feasibility, he only has to ask for a download link.
I've given it to my piggies who have problems hitting anything dive bombing, wirble or ship to ship shooting. It has a place that the drones fly within 800 of your wirble. It started out as my terrain to test terrain tiles then morphed into tank gunnery on a range you can populate with the tank drones to get the same kind of kaboom results as online. Then morphed into being able to test everything as I wanted to answer questions.
Fjordma benefited from my testing on it.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 22, 2019, 03:02:43 PM
You took it out of context, kind of. It wasn't a jab Hitech but food for thought about creating more assets packages that go along the same lines as the tile sets (europe and pacific).
Creating structures that resemble say, Russian construction for an eastern European tileset, Scandinavian structural design and a Scandinavian tileset etc...
The "different" software was a way of saying "hey, we can help build these and still follow the same structure" as the the software he is currently using.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My apologies if I took it out of context, Ciaphas
Is HiTech's current edition of the "Terrain Editor" unable to create these new tiles and objects? Noting that anything created would need HiTech's approval to be used in/on any Melee Arena Terrain
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Ciaphas on August 22, 2019, 03:30:07 PM
Is HiTech's current edition of the "Terrain Editor" unable to create these new tiles and objects? Noting that anything created would need HiTech's approval to be used in/on any Melee Arena Terrain
It's still the same objects just different configurations. I'm referring to different times objects that are tileset themed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: bustr on August 22, 2019, 03:51:45 PM
For fjordma I re-sorted the Euro terrset00 along with cycling in two never published 1016 HTC rock tiles that have been sitting unused since AH3 went live. I can only imagine the restrictions and requirements to produce new objects and tiles that won't bug crash paying customers in the MA. I think to this day a few players are having exit problems on riftval and fjordma due to the road\river\rail objects.
I opted to get the most out of the 660x660 polygons versus trying to create new tiles or objects for the MA. The MA is where Hitech makes his living and pays for everything. After 4 terrains, I'm not going to join the suicide band wagon for new just becasue new is new. I'm even more amazed now after my 4 terrains why people were not creating terrains for the MA like fjordma starting at least in AH2. Back then there was a community of MA creators. It was doable even with that terrain editor. It's actually pretty simple, while how to do it is along the lines of when something is so simple you cannot see it becasue our minds need to complicate things. All the tools you will need are in the terrain editor.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Lazerr on August 22, 2019, 06:55:09 PM
When new players are welcomed by 88 fire and resupply, who expects them to pay, even after controls are established.
Limit resup to recent base captures, and tie manned guns to a score.
On top of that, fix your matchplay free for all. I dont need b29s and dr1s in that fly like they do. That arena could be a blast if it wasnt set up fully dumbschit.
Whatever terrain you create, all is void to above mentioned... ....... ......... gameplay.
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Volron on August 22, 2019, 07:30:41 PM
When will people learn that if someone is in a manned gun, they don't care about score? :headscratch:
Title: Re: Steam Marketing
Post by: Lazerr on August 23, 2019, 03:23:58 AM
When will people learn that if someone is in a manned gun, they don't care about score? :headscratch:
Yeah, the reason they hop in said gun, is because they are not currently 10k above the attackers in a d9, able to run at will. They defend their base where there is no threat to being killed, in a gun, or slink around under patches of trees in a m3. The fight for a base is nearly gone.
This is obviously much worse during low number tlme periods.