General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vinkman on October 21, 2021, 11:54:03 AM
Title: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on October 21, 2021, 11:54:03 AM
Yesterday my patience for the 20k Pony squad ran a little thin. So I poked them a little on 200. They aren't bad people, this is not an attack on any person or persons. Yes everyone can play as they chose. But the ensuing discussion made it clear that some don't believe sportsmanship has a place in this game or what sportsmanship is. Some seem to believe the definition of sportsmanship is being polite on 200. But Sportsmanship lives in the way you play the game.
I know at times we try in this simulation to emulate the tactics of the war. It makes thing seem like a real simulation. In the real war packs of Mustangs would patrol the skies at 20-25K looking to clear a space for bombers or to engage fighters. Those fighters would be 25K Dora-9s or 109 G-14s and K4s. It was life and death. Few chances were taken and no one involved considered it fun. Running, not turn fighting and only BnZ-ing fighter that had lost there SA is how the vast majority of kills in the real war were obtained.
If you are in a pack of ponies trolling at 20K and diving on Yaks trying to turn fight Brewster's at 200mph at 5k you are not simulating the "tactics" of the war. You are inserting yourself in someone else's fun and ruining it. For many players ACM is the fun in this game. It's why they come to air combat sims. This first pass from high alt could be forgiven if you continued to stay engaged and entered the fray. But instead, if engaged, you run. 2-3 sectors at time. This "strategy" described as "smart" or "realistic" gameplay is nothing more than an unsportsmanlike attempt to deny a fellow player any chance of "out flying" you. It can only be used against players that are already engaged in ACM with other players and or players with slower plane...which is everyone if you fly a pony at from 20k. It succeed only in situations where this gameplay is parasitic.
I would like for a second for those of you that play this way, and those of you that defend it, to think what the game would be like if everyone played that way. Groups of fighters taking a 15 minutes to climb out to ensure they were higher than everyone. Every higher fighter group at equal numbers at equal alt you see, you turn and run away from. A sky full of posturing planes that never engage if the fight is fair, always avoiding, and if engaged everyone flees at top speed. There is no furball to get your easy BnZ kills from. There is no heavy slow F4U to BnZ because no one is prepping fields. The game would be so boring everyone would quit and there would be no game.
A game is played for the enjoyment of all players. If you aren't making the game fun for the opposition, if you aren't giving them a reasonable chance to out "fly you" and win, there will cease to be an opposition which is the end of the game. By definition your gameplay style is bad for the game because "never dying" is the wrong objective in a GAME. That's the objective in a real war. The objective in a game should be to win by learning to out fly, out shoot, and out bomb your opponents. If that was everyone objective gameplay would improve greatly.
No I'm not suggesting every fight is perfectly fair. Yes I know base taking objective call for vulching, ganging during a base assault. But don't let those scenarios be a the excuse for strategies purely committed to ganging, picking, and running. It just...lame. Dying isn't that terrible. I do it all the time.
Play hard, fight hard, engage the enemy! It's much more fun for everyone. :salute
Vinkman
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Shuffler on October 21, 2021, 01:27:16 PM
An arena with no score. :D
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on October 21, 2021, 01:33:47 PM
Well, I suppose you could take a pony up to 20k and fight them on even ground. But what you really want it for them to fly the planes you want them to fly, at the altitude you prefer them to be at, and attack in the manner you are most comfortable with.
My definition of "Sportsmanship" would be more like: 1. Don't talk crap on chan200 or PM. 2. Don't intentionally game bugs or glitches in the software. 3. Be willing to consider switching sides to try and keep teams as balanced as feasible.
Everyone defines it differently I suppose.
Most people define "Sportsmanship" as whenever the opponent plays the way they want them to.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Mako- on October 21, 2021, 01:40:01 PM
Yesterday my patience for the 20k Pony squad ran a little thin. So I poked them a little on 200. They aren't bad people, this is not an attack on any person or persons. Yes everyone can play as they chose. But the ensuing discussion made it clear that some don't believe sportsmanship has a place in this game or what sportsmanship is. Some seem to believe the definition of sportsmanship is being polite on 200. But Sportsmanship lives in the way you play the game.
I know at times we try in this simulation to emulate the tactics of the war. It makes thing seem like a real simulation. In the real war packs of Mustangs would patrol the skies at 20-25K looking to clear a space for bombers or to engage fighters. Those fighters would be 25K Dora-9s or 109 G-14s and K4s. It was life and death. Few chances were taken and no one involved considered it fun. Running, not turn fighting and only BnZ-ing fighter that had lost there SA is how the vast majority of kills in the real war were obtained.
If you are in a pack of ponies trolling at 20K and diving on Yaks trying to turn fight Brewster's at 200mph at 5k you are not simulating the "tactics" of the war. You are inserting yourself in someone else's fun and ruining it. For many players ACM is the fun in this game. It's why they come to air combat sims. This first pass from high alt could be forgiven if you continued to stay engaged and entered the fray. But instead, if engaged, you run. 2-3 sectors at time. This "strategy" described as "smart" or "realistic" gameplay is nothing more than an unsportsmanlike attempt to deny a fellow player any chance of "out flying" you. It can only be used against players that are already engaged in ACM with other players and or players with slower plane...which is everyone if you fly a pony at from 20k. It succeed only in situations where this gameplay is parasitic.
I would like for a second for those of you that play this way, and those of you that defend it, to think what the game would be like if everyone played that way. Groups of fighters taking a 15 minutes to climb out to ensure they were higher than everyone. Every higher fighter group at equal numbers at equal alt you see, you turn and run away from. A sky full of posturing planes that never engage if the fight is fair, always avoiding, and if engaged everyone flees at top speed. There is no furball to get your easy BnZ kills from. There is no heavy slow F4U to BnZ because no one is prepping fields. The game would be so boring everyone would quit and there would be no game.
A game is played for the enjoyment of all players. If you aren't making the game fun for the opposition, if you aren't giving them a reasonable chance to out "fly you" and win, there will cease to be an opposition which is the end of the game. By definition your gameplay style is bad for the game because "never dying" is the wrong objective in a GAME. That's the objective in a real war. The objective in a game should be to win by learning to out fly, out shoot, and out bomb your opponents. If that was everyone objective gameplay would improve greatly.
No I'm not suggesting every fight is perfectly fair. Yes I know base taking objective call for vulching, ganging during a base assault. But don't let those scenarios be a the excuse for strategies purely committed to ganging, picking, and running. It just...lame. Dying isn't that terrible. I do it all the time.
Play hard, fight hard, engage the enemy! It's much more fun for everyone. :salute
Vinkman
Jeez Vink... why are u now complaining... it has always been that way :salute
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Oldman731 on October 21, 2021, 02:38:18 PM
Most people define "Sportsmanship" as whenever the opponent plays the way they want them to.
I don't think that's so (not that there are statistics to establish it one way or the other). AH has always had a tension between those who view it as a sport and those who view it as a re-enactment/simulation and/or as a goal-focused win-the-war venture. Vinkman (and I) fall into the first category, many others fall into the others. I hate getting picked when I'm involved in a good knife fight, but I'm sure the guy who picks me fancies himself a wingman performing his wingman duty, or increasing his side's chances of winning the map. The game needs both types. The trick is for the sportsman types to control their tempers.
- oldman
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on October 21, 2021, 02:59:45 PM
Well, I suppose you could take a pony up to 20k and fight them on even ground. But what you really want it for them to fly the planes you want them to fly, at the altitude you prefer them to be at, and attack in the manner you are most comfortable with.
You read the half you wanted to read. If I go to alt to fight them on even ground...they run.
The trick is for the sportsman types to control their tempers.
Or accept getting laughed at for trying to tell others how to play their $15's worth. :cool:
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on October 21, 2021, 05:48:37 PM
I agree 100% with Vinkman. Im sure that this type of play/flying is in the top 5 reasons people quit this game.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vulcan on October 21, 2021, 05:50:25 PM
I love those princesses, when you run them down in a Yak their tears are delicious.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Simon on October 21, 2021, 06:46:46 PM
Right on, Vink, as usual, but I think there are a lot more displays of poor gamesmanship than the examples you give. Stick-stirring Yak3s (and Doras, to a lesser degree) that won't engage unless you're already fighting are at the top of my list. The runners and the ones that bail or ditch to avoid dogfights are only minor annoyances in comparison.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: RichardDarkwood on October 21, 2021, 07:04:37 PM
someone doesn't like it when they get denied the cartoon kills
Don't confuse me as a supporter of what you describe as I fly at 20-K plus but don't run away. Love cartoon fights at high altitude.
If they run away just turn around, show them your six
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: guncrasher on October 21, 2021, 09:48:54 PM
I expect to die the same way I kill. i expect the other player to do exactly what I do. there's not a single time I've died that i havent killed anybody the same way.
sportsmanship? I try to show it by saying, hey good kill. do you think i like to fly for over 1 hour climbing to 35k to get killed by a 163 that takes 1 minute to get there? nope, but I expect to spend all of that time to get killed 3 seconds before my drop.
I kill ords, dar, hit strats, bomb gv's, kill bombers, pick fighters, vulch fighters, kill m3's. is it an even fight to fly down from 1 or 2k to kill an m3? nope, same as I dont expect to be safe just because I am out turning a plane and 1 or 20 of his friends dive down or climb up and kill me.
I would throw my purse at you if hitech would coad that into the game. I'll do anything to bring you down and I expect the same from you.
sportsmanship is being cool with each other. we do make fun of each other but in a cool way and be gracious to accept the way we got killed is exactly the same way we kill others. maybe not in this flight but a few flights ago.
semp
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: ZE on October 21, 2021, 10:16:13 PM
I expect to die the same way I kill. i expect the other player to do exactly what I do. there's not a single time I've died that i havent killed anybody the same way. semp
Very true statement SEMP. This is a game some players take very seriosly. Let freedom of choose planes and how to play the game be in our blood. Fight with your best hability using the best of your plane, kill enemies with your best, and die with the lesson learned actitud... Hope my humble opinion don't generate more controverse but friendship....
ZE
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: JimmyD3 on October 22, 2021, 12:29:55 AM
Sportsmanship, I'm sure it has differing meanings for each of us. I can not recall any situation in the last several years, that I was involved in, where someone was acting "Unsportsmanlike". Yes we have the "pickers", the "BnZ'ers", the Brewster's catching 262's, Spit 14's climbing at 7k a minute. Then you have the Bombers at 40K, killing fighters at 2k out, or the P47M that kills 12 bombers in one sortie, the Ki43 bombing 5 gv's before re-arming. If that is not enough, you have the T34/85 killing every gv with in 3k, Tiger II's sitting on concrete to prevent loosing perk points.
This game is Fun!!!! even with all the inexpiable results in our combat sorties. I dare say, not a day goes by that some action I take, doesn't leave me scratching my head wondering what went wrong, or what did I do wrong, or in those rare occasions wondering how I got away with that.
We are blessed with some of the nicest people I have had the privilege to play with in this game. With that said, Yes I get fired up on occasion, upset because someone didn't do what I thought they should do. Then I cool down and remember they are spending their $15.00 month the way they want to. I remind myself daily, that in this combat game, my efforts will be opposed by the players in the other countries, as I will oppose their efforts. That is the nature of the game. :x
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: oTRALFZo on October 22, 2021, 03:56:31 AM
It is all about expectation over reality.
Reality is "if its red, its dead" and that's what most players mentality is at and so it should be. We are here to shoot things down. Expectation for some is that we engage at the same alt, nobody HOs and the rest just leaves us alone. Although fun and achievable, that will only account for a small percentage of engagements. Very VERY few players will not intervene in other fights and let them duke it out (* I still remember Elvis letting me duke it out with Mark4 and he never once took a dive in our fight which was awesome) . I always try to extend the courtesy if I see a 1 vs 1 and ask the friendly if they need help and most of the time, they say yes.
I learned that "setting the tone" and taking the time to try to assess a situation. If you see dar coming from another sector, most likely you are going to a situation of those 20k pickers. Take the time to get the same altitude to combat them. I also accept the fact that if I get into a fight with some red guys and I get below a certain altitude where I loose advantage, most likely I will be in the tower. I am learning each day to have patience not to put myself in that situation to stay in the fight longer.
All in all, if you have the attitude to accept the fact the worst in players ALL of the time, You will appreciate the great guys much more SOME of the time.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on October 22, 2021, 06:37:45 AM
As much as its a pita in the other sims - engine overheating reduces the runners
As we only have one arena now with the slowest to the fastest planes enabled at once as you can't control the players from running away you have to limit their planes in a more realistic manner.
I am all for maps with limited plane sets which would change a maps experience making them more engaging and enjoyable IMO
It would be different to wonder what setup I am logging into than it is now.
And the game also needs more players to put their egos and scores aside and be auto assigned to try to balance sides
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: hazmatt on October 22, 2021, 09:52:59 AM
I when they show up I usually switch from a turny plane to a d9 and focus on chasing them down.
I also mentioned forming a squad to hunt such annoyances, however there was no interest...
Maybe ZE could do some brewster training? NM that's a bad idea. Having one brewster driver like him is enough! :bolt:
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Wiley on October 22, 2021, 10:04:56 AM
I when they show up I usually switch from a turny plane to a d9 and focus on chasing them down.
I also mentioned forming a squad to hunt such annoyances, however there was no interest...
Maybe ZE could do some brewster training? NM that's a bad idea. Having one brewster driver like him is enough! :bolt:
That's what I usually do too. Hunt the alt monkey runners and pickers. When they don't have enough advantages they still run, but at least you have a chance of catching them.
Then there are those that say that's becoming part of the problem because you're now a guy that's in a fast plane. :rolleyes:
No matter what you do someone's going to be saying you're not playing the game right. That's why they're all pretty much equally worthless comments.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: hazmatt on October 22, 2021, 10:35:09 AM
True. It also can be frustrating when you get to 20k in a d9 and 4 ponies show up at 25k lol
One positive thing is (if you see them coming) it' tough for them to make an accurate shot at 600mph
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: waystin2 on October 22, 2021, 10:50:25 AM
sportsmanship is being cool with each other. we do make fun of each other but in a cool way and be gracious to accept the way we got killed is exactly the same way we kill others. maybe not in this flight but a few flights ago.
semp
This Sempism is quotable. Too true. Well said buddy. :aok
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Wiley on October 22, 2021, 10:59:15 AM
True. It also can be frustrating when you get to 20k in a d9 and 4 ponies show up at 25k lol
One positive thing is (if you see them coming) it' tough for them to make an accurate shot at 600mph
Some nights the alt monkey game starts to feel like the cartoons where they take turns chasing each other with progressively bigger guns. Starts out with some coming in at 10k. Then those that die come back at 13. Then 15. Then 20.
All part of the rich tapestry that is the MA.
The other fix is fighting from the bottom, but the tricky part is if the alt monkeys are working together that's a tough row to hoe.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on October 22, 2021, 11:15:05 AM
I am all for maps with alt limits
One of the best things about MNM is the 4k alt cap
Not saying every map but some set ups with say a 10k alt limit would change game play for the better IMO
With the number of players online these days anything to shrink the playing field is the way it should go
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: hazmatt on October 22, 2021, 11:21:11 AM
I think 10k alt cap with 15k mountains is the way to go! :aok
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Wiley on October 22, 2021, 11:24:54 AM
I think 10k alt cap with 15k mountains is the way to go! :aok
Have you seen what that looks like in the scenarios and FSOs though? Bunch of people running around at 9999 feet never turning. Not exactly sure that's an improvement of significance.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: LCADolby on October 22, 2021, 12:15:19 PM
The guy that likes to start fights with 5k advantage complaining about people starting a fight with 5k on him :rofl
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on October 22, 2021, 12:18:58 PM
MA is not FSO..thank goodness as I find them as exciting as watching grass grow
Alt caps would make MA more enjoyable as it would limit the play space increasing the available targets in that reduced space IMO
Mountains higher than the cap would be interesting to as it would create great valley type battles
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Spikes on October 22, 2021, 12:29:03 PM
Have you seen what that looks like in the scenarios and FSOs though? Bunch of people running around at 9999 feet never turning. Not exactly sure that's an improvement of significance.
Wiley.
:headscratch:
Can't remember the last time in an FSO or Scenario where I didn't end up scrapping on the deck with enemies.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Wiley on October 22, 2021, 12:32:25 PM
Can't remember the last time in an FSO or Scenario where I didn't end up scrapping on the deck with enemies.
Depends on the opponent. I see now that came across as saying it was a majority. Same as not everybody does it in the MA, you just tend to notice it.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Mano on October 22, 2021, 02:07:19 PM
How to deal with Unsportsmanlike Game Play:
Mano's Dicta
1. de tune 200 2. Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you. 3. Always carry through an attack when you have started it. 4. Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights. 5. Always keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses. 6. In any form of attack it is essential to assail your enemy from behind. 7. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught, but fly to meet it. 8. When over the enemy's lines never forget your own line of retreat. 9. For the Squadron: Attack on principle in groups of four or six. When the fight breaks up into a series of single combats, take care that several do not go for the same opponent. 10. Make it count.
:D :D :D
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Lazerr on October 22, 2021, 02:33:23 PM
As Wiley stated, fighting from below really is what I enjoy, but after you slaughter a few dozen, they start to pile on just to kill ya. Still fun.
I really don't care if I die or not, I'd rather put myself in a sketchy situation and die 75% of the time, because the 25% you walk on on top is more satisfying than anything this game has to offer
One it is irritating to engage a guy though who will run no matter what, until you are in a 125mph stall fight with the guy that has a set of nads.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Puma44 on October 22, 2021, 05:47:23 PM
1. de tune 200 2. Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you. 3. Always carry through an attack when you have started it. 4. Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights. 5. Always keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses. 6. In any form of attack it is essential to assail your enemy from behind. 7. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught, but fly to meet it. 8. When over the enemy's lines never forget your own line of retreat. 9. For the Squadron: Attack on principle in groups of four or six. When the fight breaks up into a series of single combats, take care that several do not go for the same opponent. 10. Make it count.
:D :D :D
Agree completely, plus:
11. Always be unpredictable.
12. Attack from the opponents blind spot.
13. Keep the opponent guessing.
:salute
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vulcan on October 22, 2021, 06:00:48 PM
Have you seen what that looks like in the scenarios and FSOs though? Bunch of people running around at 9999 feet never turning. Not exactly sure that's an improvement of significance.
Wiley.
FSO does not has never looked like that.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: scott66 on October 22, 2021, 08:33:04 PM
Personally I don't have any rules except log in fly and have fun..K/D ratio doesn't measure My fun ratio ..I pay to have fun not to care about dying..I have a pocket full of quarters and they keep giving my new planes... The one thing I've learned about this game since 2004 is the best and the worst thing about this game are one in the same... The players themselves... Cheers
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: AKDogg on October 22, 2021, 08:41:39 PM
Reason I been flying the f4u-4 lately is to catch those running P51's. Many have tried to out run and out dive me with most failing. hehehehe :t
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 22, 2021, 10:40:16 PM
My biggest thing is when you are out away from everyone and all of your friendlies, but then 3 or 4 cons have to follow you out to gang you at all cost. Simply no mercy. Are you expected to just turn and "fight" them. In most cases they will catch you eventually. It's why so many choose fast BNZ planes. There is just no unwritten rule about piling on one guy in loner situations. Even mastering the art of defensive overshoots, fighting 3 or 4 guys at once who know how to play is extremely challenged. Ganging is and always has been a very challenging aspect to AH. That's why slow turny birds are much more difficult in the MA and why so many fly at 40k in the fastest planes of WW2.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on October 23, 2021, 06:56:15 AM
Maybe get rid of individual scoring and go with a total team score.. then individual deaths or victories would not matter as much to those that would rather run than fight.
Which would then mean squat to those of us who auto switch in an attempt to help the other issue..lopsided numbers
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 23, 2021, 07:43:43 AM
Maybe get rid of individual scoring and go with a total team score.. then individual deaths or victories would not matter as much to those that would rather run than fight.
Which would then mean squat to those of us who auto switch in an attempt to help the other issue..lopsided numbers
Eagler
I honestly don't believe they are flying that way because of score, it's more personally about them spending the time to get to the fight and trying not to die just out of pure instincts. They don't want to get ganged by 4 guys, so they resort to planes that they can escape from that. Even without score, people would still gang. It's just a natural phenomenon without any unwritten rules, most people are itching hard for a kill and in here it's "kill at all costs". Score and landing counts or whatever wouldnt even factor into people flying as timidly as they do. They fly timidly because it's all they know and don't want to waste their time dying so quickly after a long flight out there.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on October 23, 2021, 09:06:20 AM
Maybe maybe not..
I think dying is tied to scores for most...how are they worried about flying 4ever to get to the fight if all they do is run away waiting for you to be engaged with one or two of their buddies so they can turn around and pick you from behind...then fly away 25 miles to land their 4 kills....yes it is all about scores and the text stating their kills
All for getting rid of any kind of kill message in the text buffer if it would help..
Unless the game limits this with restricted plane sets somehow it will continue to the end..
I'd much rather be in an f4 than a k but you can't catch much in the f4 in ma these days and nothing is more boring than to chase faster planes who are too scared to even turn around and try to b&z you...
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 23, 2021, 11:17:08 AM
People should be less concerned how others fly and play the game. It just leads to posts like the OP's.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: waystin2 on October 23, 2021, 11:34:55 AM
People should be less concerned how others fly and play the game. It just leads to posts like the OP's.
Truth. :aok
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: RotBaron on October 23, 2021, 05:07:43 PM
Do so many of you really look at your score and the related metrics as much as this thread seems to indicate?
I hope that is not the case for the majority of players….
For awhile in AH2 I flew to have a great score, yes I made the top 50 several times (Front page news!!!). -It was EXTREMELY BORING to play the game that way for me.
To each their own I guess.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Lusche on October 23, 2021, 07:04:08 PM
Few players really fly for score and nothing else. Those that do usually succumb to burnout after a relatively short time. You can see when looking at the scores and ranks in detail. Most players could easily have a much better rank by just doing a few more specific sorties, or adjusting their flying/choice of planes a bit. But they don't do that.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: 100Coogn on October 23, 2021, 07:14:11 PM
Few players really fly for score and nothing else. Those that do usually succumb to burnout after a relatively short time. You can see when looking at the scores and ranks in detail. Most players could easily have a much better rank by just doing a few more specific sorties, or adjusting their flying/choice of planes a bit. But they don't do that.
When I flew with the Bloody 100th I would watch my score, for accuracy of drop and try to do better than my squadmate. When it came to fighters though, I could really care less. Never followed my k/d.
Coogan
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Oldman731 on October 23, 2021, 09:01:11 PM
Maybe get rid of individual scoring and go with a total team score.. then individual deaths or victories would not matter as much to those that would rather run than fight.
Eh. We had plenty of ganging in AW, and there was no score there.
- oldman
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on October 23, 2021, 10:00:46 PM
Not entirely meaningless, AKAK does accurately show both cause and effect, I'll run you through it; If one follows only themselves and their own actions ingame and not that of others, threads would not exist, because they would not need to exist.
Vink, my advise; Do as I did, make a squad and recruit people that share your vision of how to fly AcesHigh. You never know, your vision may become popular, you may even be able to enjoy turning the tables on those that are philosophically opposed to your vision. The added man power will certainly even the odds to a fairer fight. JG5 had many good scraps with Pony squads that like altitude and numbers, some of them you may remember, Devil Dogs ring a bell?
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on October 24, 2021, 01:12:35 PM
Not entirely meaningless, AKAK does accurately show both cause and effect, I'll run you through it; If one follows only themselves and their own actions ingame and not that of others, threads would not exist, because they would not need to exist.
Vink, my advise; Do as I did, make a squad and recruit people that share your vision of how to fly AcesHigh. You never know, your vision may become popular, you may even be able to enjoy turning the tables on those that are philosophically opposed to your vision. The added man power will certainly even the odds to a fairer fight. JG5 had many good scraps with Pony squads that like altitude and numbers, some of them you may remember, Devil Dogs ring a bell?
The problem these days are the lack of numbers. Furballs, or group fights are rarer than before and a good fight may be 3 or 4 guys from each side give or take a guy or two on one side or the other. While these are fun, they are few and far between. Then you add in 3 or four pickin pones on one side or the other and the whole dynamic of the once fun fight changes.
Pickers as enemy,
your now force to take SA away from the fun fight to dodge endless high alt attacks. Endless as ponies can fly for ever and the way these guys fly, dive in, take a shot, recover alt, repeat, they can make a lot of attack runs on a tank full. So much so the "fun fight" disappears and your dodgin and trying for a good snap shot, which isnt the type of "fun fight" your looking for, so you just give up and move on to some other activity be it in the game or not.
Pickers on your side,
You work a guy or two to get them to a point they cant maneuver out of the way, you line up for your shot and a picker takes the kill on a slow wallowing target. Before you know it the enemy has had enough of the pickers and either leave, or jump in D9s to come back at 25k to pick the pickers and the fun fight is gone again.
Again, if we had twice the numbers we would have more fun fights and the pickers wouldnt as big an issue as they are now. I just makes one more reason to not bother loggin in.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: RichardDarkwood on October 25, 2021, 06:23:03 AM
This is all some gamers in aces high know how to do, its all they have ever done or are ever going to do.
Correct, but if you have 4 pickers diving in on a 4 vs 4 it becomes a PITA really quick, but the same 4 diving in on an 8 vs 8, not such a big deal.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on October 25, 2021, 08:25:00 AM
to clarify, its the Running and fight avoidance that I have an issue with. Not the fighting as a squad or in numbers. Many of you missed that point.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 25, 2021, 10:21:20 AM
Just have to really learn the art of defense ACM if you want to fly something slower than a F16. Getting those reversal shots in the overshoot is a KEY. That is really the only way to defeat these pick and runners. I agree with Fugi. That the more the marrier would create less of that, however, even in huge furballs, like combat challenge, pickers will always be there and will extend out of the furball. I admit to using this strategy sometimes. It's a lot more exhilarating for sure! Always gotta check 6. You might have 3 or 4 on your after a dive in but generally have friendlies to help. It's a blast.
Aircombat strategy is difficult because there is no "wall" to hide behind if someone is shooting. Your only option is to get out of their line of fire and sight. This is the magic trick illusion of your plane getting out of their sites. People will always fly how they want to. Your biggest priorities should be, what planes are I'm fighting against, how many are their where I'm heading, what alt are they, how can I get the advantage on them, which defensive counter maneuver am I going to work with. In the end, the MA is not "real war", its not organized like FSO. It's not meant to be "fair" with regards to planes and setups. The whole point is to grab some balls and get in planes that challenge you and make you better at situational flying. That's all you can do. Then when some P51 speed demon tries to jump you, pull that defensive maneuver and pop them on the overshoot. That's all you can do. Flying at 25K in the same plane ain't gonna work out any different and will probably be more boring. Try to stay away from the gang and drag out the planes to you to even the fight. That's a solid strategy. You will never in the MA be able to outrun 3 p51s and 2 yak3s and 3 La7s chasing you. All you can do is practice defense maneuvers until hopefully your friendlies arrive. That's all you can do.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Shuffler on October 25, 2021, 05:01:23 PM
I always watched my score. I scored higher than most. I could get way up there when some folks were only 1 or 2. I might be 100 or more...... I'm sorry if this comes across as bragging... I'm just that good I guess. :D
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: fd ski on October 26, 2021, 12:08:50 AM
when runstungs show up, grab a friend,get them duces and annoy the heck out of them.
Nothing annoys runstung drivers more than taste of their own medicine :)
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on October 26, 2021, 08:14:30 AM
Few players really fly for score and nothing else. Those that do usually succumb to burnout after a relatively short time. You can see when looking at the scores and ranks in detail. Most players could easily have a much better rank by just doing a few more specific sorties, or adjusting their flying/choice of planes a bit. But they don't do that.
So why are they running instead if playing?
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on October 26, 2021, 09:41:42 AM
Because they don't want the punishment of being sent all the way back to the tower and have to waste another 30 min of their day bored to death on auto-pilot just getting back to where they were.
And that's if the one fight on the map they've found hasn't already dissipated by the time they get back.
3 sided war created more frontage to spread the fights out across and many times the one good fight on the map will be where a third of the players can't get to because they don't share that front. 3 sides are great with 500 players to prevent a cluster-fek. With low numbers it makes it harder to achieve critical mass at a point where all players can engage together.
If you can't increase the numbers (and you won't), and two sides is off the table (which it is), then the only thing you can do is create much smaller maps with minimally spaced fields, and less fields total.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: RichardDarkwood on October 26, 2021, 12:52:12 PM
Because they don't want the punishment of being sent all the way back to the tower and have to waste another 30 min of their day bored to death on auto-pilot just getting back to where they were.
And that's if the one fight on the map they've found hasn't already dissipated by the time they get back.
3 sided war created more frontage to spread the fights out across and many times the one good fight on the map will be where a third of the players can't get to because they don't share that front. 3 sides are great with 500 players to prevent a cluster-fek. With low numbers it makes it harder to achieve critical mass at a point where all players can engage together.
If you can't increase the numbers (and you won't), and two sides is off the table (which it is), then the only thing you can do is create much smaller maps with minimally spaced fields, and less fields total.
This!
And since the list of maps cannot or will not be edited to remove the maps most are complaining about I think nothing will happen
It would be great to hear from HT why the map list can't be changed for a trial run to see if it makes a difference
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: guncrasher on October 26, 2021, 02:24:36 PM
And since the list of maps cannot or will not be edited to remove the maps most are complaining about I think nothing will happen
It would be great to hear from HT why the map list can't be changed for a trial run to see if it makes a difference
Eagler
most? what does this mean? I don't like buzzsaw, hate it with a passion. know some people that won't play in it. but there's a lot more players that seem to enjoy it.
semp
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Bear76 on October 26, 2021, 02:41:07 PM
Then I can come back here and tell you all what he said... Or ...
Yes if it mattered to me that much I would pursue an answer
Eagler
He may tell you, and ask you not to spread it around. He doesnt like to give an answer out to the community because inevitably he gets a dozen or so people who know better try to correct him. Some people just cant accept the answer he gives.
Personally if I was him Id give my answer and then ignore the hoopla afterwards. At least we would have an answer instead of all the speculation that goes on and on.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: SPKmes on October 26, 2021, 09:00:02 PM
Because they don't want the punishment of being sent all the way back to the tower and have to waste another 30 min of their day bored to death on auto-pilot just getting back to where they were.
And that's if the one fight on the map they've found hasn't already dissipated by the time they get back.
3 sided war created more frontage to spread the fights out across and many times the one good fight on the map will be where a third of the players can't get to because they don't share that front. 3 sides are great with 500 players to prevent a cluster-fek. With low numbers it makes it harder to achieve critical mass at a point where all players can engage together.
If you can't increase the numbers (and you won't), and two sides is off the table (which it is), then the only thing you can do is create much smaller maps with minimally spaced fields, and less fields total.
What's the difference? they sit at alt and away from anywhere until they can swoop and poach... then head off if they find there is one other at the same alt...they have to waste a heck of a lot more time prepping to get the right alt and poaching setup...and when/if it doesn't work out they spend another 15-20mins to get it just right again.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on October 27, 2021, 06:19:41 AM
Because they don't want the punishment of being sent all the way back to the tower and have to waste another 30 min of their day bored to death on auto-pilot just getting back to where they were.
This is completely illogical. As described they are running, and diving to the deck, back to their base in an attempt to evade engagement. So they ARE ending up exactly where you say running prevents them from ending up.
one might think you made that up to hijack the thread for a map rant.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on October 27, 2021, 06:21:07 AM
double post
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on October 27, 2021, 06:24:37 AM
Personally if I was him Id give my answer and then ignore the hoopla afterwards. At least we would have an answer instead of all the speculation that goes on and on.
Yep
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on October 27, 2021, 09:03:57 AM
This is completely illogical. As described they are running, and diving to the deck, back to their base in an attempt to evade engagement. So they ARE ending up exactly where you say running prevents them from ending up.
one might think you made that up to hijack the thread for a map rant.
Only in the cases where they are pursued all the way back. In that edge case, they are at least no worse off.
In the vast majority of cases though, a persuer will break off way before that if they realize they will never catch them. Therefore in the vast majority of cases they will quickly get enough separation to reverse and re-enter the combat zone and continue to pick when they can do so without excessive risk without have to start all the way back at the tower.
If you removed scoring tomorrow, 85% of players wouldn't even notice. 95% wouldn't change the way they play regardless.
If you don't get that, then you just don't get that. It's not particularly important to me you get it, so...good luck with that.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Chris79 on October 27, 2021, 10:20:21 AM
Well on one hand, there isn’t really any good 51 sticks in the game with the exception of train45, or none at least that gives me pause. So, the alt monkey bronies in game tend to be more of a nuisance then anything else. I do understand OPs point however, trying to knife fight on the deck while being constantly mindful of being harassed/picked by 20k plus 51s 190s ect can get quite tiresome. On the other hand, AH is a sandbox and people pay their 15$ to play the game in the parameters that HTC set up. I reckon thing about the only thing that would mitigate alt monkey shenanigans is implementing a 17k overcast cloud layer but that would screw over the bomber boys though.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: hazmatt on October 27, 2021, 10:49:25 AM
Papa4 (I think was his callsign) and Higheye are one of the few pony drivers that I've noticed that will fight.
Wouldn't 17k cloud level just make them all fly at 16k? lol
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: fuzeman on October 27, 2021, 12:10:01 PM
I've got nothing about how to fix running aircraft, Pony or otherwise.
ot looking for a code change. Players have to recognize and own their unsportsmanlike gameplay and change it.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Shane on October 29, 2021, 09:33:49 AM
Ummm... errr... all I can do is point at my sig quotes, and laugh.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: decoy on October 30, 2021, 12:03:50 PM
I'm with Vinkman on this, if not necessarily on the specific tactics he mentioned. People using game glitches to their advantage and, (I have been told by people who should know) players inserting their own code into the game, which gives various aircraft the flight envelopes of other aircraft - specifically, turn fighting in a B25 - are exactly the things that are driving people away from Warbirds. It's the main reason I investigated and tried Aces High, but the quality of the game and the atmosphere in the forums and in the open melee arena are going to be the reasons I stay.
I don't know how many people are actually active in AH from week to week, but I do know that, at a time of day when are are only one or two players online in WBs, there'll be anywhere from 30-50 online in AH. So I'm looking forward to a time when I'm online and capable enough to be a asset to other players, and a hindrance to the enemy. Until then I'm just building stick time and getting practice.
Decoy
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: whiteman on October 30, 2021, 01:00:29 PM
I'm with Vinkman on this, if not necessarily on the specific tactics he mentioned. People using game glitches to their advantage and, (I have been told by people who should know) players inserting their own code into the game, which gives various aircraft the flight envelopes of other aircraft - specifically, turn fighting in a B25 - are exactly the things that are driving people away from Warbirds. It's the main reason I investigated and tried Aces High, but the quality of the game and the atmosphere in the forums and in the open melee arena are going to be the reasons I stay.
99% chance those people that know are full of ****, it’s a way to explain their level of suck.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: guncrasher on October 30, 2021, 01:34:31 PM
you can turn fight in any plane. bombers are good turn fighters if you aren't afraid to fly it as a fighter. flown it many times even outurned a p38, how? he wasnt expecting me to turn.
it even has its advantages, you can shoot in any direction while the fighter tries to position itself for a shot at a slow speed.
semp
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on October 30, 2021, 02:09:41 PM
I'm with Vinkman on this, if not necessarily on the specific tactics he mentioned. People using game glitches to their advantage and, (I have been told by people who should know) players inserting their own code into the game, which gives various aircraft the flight envelopes of other aircraft - specifically, turn fighting in a B25 - are exactly the things that are driving people away from Warbirds. It's the main reason I investigated and tried Aces High, but the quality of the game and the atmosphere in the forums and in the open melee arena are going to be the reasons I stay.
I don't know how many people are actually active in AH from week to week, but I do know that, at a time of day when are are only one or two players online in WBs, there'll be anywhere from 30-50 online in AH. So I'm looking forward to a time when I'm online and capable enough to be a asset to other players, and a hindrance to the enemy. Until then I'm just building stick time and getting practice.
Decoy
There are very few "glitches" in Aces High and for "inserting their own code" I doubt that even more than a possibility of a glitch. HTC works very hard to maintain clean code and uses a lot of software to monitor and catch any code that isnt suppose to be there.
As Semp said, those that "know" are only trying to explain away their suckage.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: decoy on October 30, 2021, 04:33:15 PM
There are very few "glitches" in Aces High and for "inserting their own code" I doubt that even more than a possibility of a glitch. HTC works very hard to maintain clean code and uses a lot of software to monitor and catch any code that isnt suppose to be there.
Yes, in my first email to 'support' about problems with mapping my controller, HiTech responded. I found out his order in the food chain and his willingness to help (He send me his number and I called him and he walked me through - I was amazed) but he assured me that code insertion was not happening. It's rampant in WBs.
A great company, and a great flight sim experience.
Decoy
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on October 31, 2021, 07:29:31 AM
Been playing the game for 20 years and have not experienced any such hacking
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: LCADolby on October 31, 2021, 09:29:39 AM
Turning and fighting back in a B25 isn't Glitching or hacking. :old:
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: RODBUSTR on October 31, 2021, 08:34:42 PM
Hi Holks, Hartman refused to dogfight, Most Japanese prefered to boom and zoom instead of dog fighting. You can learn that from Pre Pearl Harbor Chinese Air Force combat reports. Spanish Civil war Air combat reports show the same. When I subscribe to AH. I choose to counter Strats with Mk 14, 47, Hawgs. That requires alt. Like any Alpha hunter, a good sim player takes the time to employ proper tactics. I use the Head on approach usually as well. Lastly, My first year or so training in Okinawa Te, I got a lot of cracked ribs. That wasn't My opponents fault. Then it quit happening. I improvised adapted, then overcame. Be Well. and Hopefully well informed too.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on October 31, 2021, 08:51:20 PM
Hi Holks, Hartman refused to dogfight, Most Japanese prefered to boom and zoom instead of dog fighting. You can learn that from Pre Pearl Harbor Chinese Air Force combat reports. Spanish Civil war Air combat reports show the same. When I subscribe to AH. I choose to counter Strats with Mk 14, 47, Hawgs. That requires alt. Like any Alpha hunter, a good sim player takes the time to employ proper tactics. I use the Head on approach usually as well. Lastly, My first year or so training in Okinawa Te, I got a lot of cracked ribs. That wasn't My opponents fault. Then it quit happening. I improvised adapted, then overcame. Be Well. and Hopefully well informed too.
Yes war and live combat are like that, this however is a game. I think most players expect a certain amount of fun and if they dont get that they will move on to some thing they do find fun. Then all of the real war "want to be's" can circle around at 30k until they run out of fuel or HTC turns off the server due to lack of funds.
Enjoy! :aok
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: 1stpar3 on November 01, 2021, 04:36:54 AM
When ya coming back? I havent been active in MNM, but still miss ya in the MA :aok My lemon Trees had a BUMBER CROP this year!!!! BUMBER, not BUMPER..In WV..that dont go, round here"! SHUFFLER: Lost to "Red Dead", with A Side of FU Hurricanes, DR7: TOO SOON!... and lots of Folk, gone now, that I never got to play with. I got you a Vita Mix...it could "Mix" a Margarita, NO? :O I sort of agree with,OP! Once I get "Hints" as to who those Ponies are....I break off! NO! I wont follow him to his Mate, that I/Others, just shot down. They are VERY CORDIAL Folk! Is that style of play Frustrating? YES/SHO-NUFF! Is that style for me? NOPE! I usually fly around, below 6K, looking for GVs to Bomb. Come on down, "EX Musketeers"! :rofl Now that I have learned "Evasive Techniques", not as much frustration! THIS IS WHAT I PLAY FOR!!!! Its why I fly the Spit-16. 3 bombs, and better capabilities than an 47, which can also carry 3 bombs! The "16" can easily turn the tables on This type of folk! Just look up my Stats! Looks like I can hold my own, so to speak! Fugitive has his points too! As we have discussed this issue, more than a few times. Its Aces High...YES! I missed the "Hay Days", but FULLY ADOPTED A"RED YOUR DEAD" style of play! "Red Dead"/Red you are dead(I sense a facsimile lol) mentality!!!! Why else would a 16, have BOMBS? For use "on light targets and other thinly armored GVs"...OOPS!!!! Killed Many a Tiger2 with those bombs! Wait for it(200 BLOW UP)? PRICELESS :rofl Hope you and Your's, are well!!! I am about to call in the Nat Guard's K-9's, and search parties, to look for ya! :aok
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: 1stpar3 on November 01, 2021, 04:56:53 AM
As Wiley stated, fighting from below really is what I enjoy, but after you slaughter a few dozen, they start to pile on just to kill ya. Still fun.
I really don't care if I die or not, I'd rather put myself in a sketchy situation and die 75% of the time, because the 25% you walk on on top is more satisfying than anything this game has to offer
One it is irritating to engage a guy though who will run no matter what, until you are in a 125mph stall fight with the guy that has a set of nads.
AMEN!!!! You know me...or should...1 16...alone...looking to GV from above...gets "Jumped" and oops! How'd that work out for ya? lol Has lead to WAY BETTER FIGHTS, than those, that I am trying to get up to those Ex-Musketeers, Skin Makers and Proclaimed Hillbilly's(he is HIGH..look at his eyes!)! :neener: Even get some cracks at those fellers...if I manage to Dodge them enough, to make them impatient :aok I will see, your 3 Vehicles, and raise you a couple fighters!!! I LOVE THIS FAMILY!!!! I showed my Niece, ULBlizz, the film of OUR EPIC Fight, from last Month! If you remember it....I have the film if you want to see it? La, against my Spit 16! I STILL dont know how I dodged that "Dont over shoot"....YOU:"I was getting GIDDY, if only you gave me the over shoot!" That was one of those fights, that will live on! :joystick:
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: 1stpar3 on November 01, 2021, 05:01:21 AM
Hi Holks, Hartman refused to dogfight, Most Japanese prefered to boom and zoom instead of dog fighting. You can learn that from Pre Pearl Harbor Chinese Air Force combat reports. Spanish Civil war Air combat reports show the same. When I subscribe to AH. I choose to counter Strats with Mk 14, 47, Hawgs. That requires alt. Like any Alpha hunter, a good sim player takes the time to employ proper tactics. I use the Head on approach usually as well. Lastly, My first year or so training in Okinawa Te, I got a lot of cracked ribs. That wasn't My opponents fault. Then it quit happening. I improvised adapted, then overcame. Be Well. and Hopefully well informed too.
RODBUSTER aka CAPSBUSTER!!!!! Where ya been, BROTHER? It has been a while!!!! Good to see this comment! I was fixing to call Rescue Services, to look for ya!!!! F those that got triggered by "You are YELLING" type!! I never did get that!! :uhoh Da DFuc
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Train45 on November 01, 2021, 10:55:49 PM
you cant fly a slow turny plane complain about people running. started out in the spit 8 but got tired of ponys running so i started flying it. lost even more patience so now ive dipped into the k4, people running is not a problem if you adapt. people flying in at 30k to a low alt fight is no issue either same as 20k or 15k . all that exess E has to be drained to really engage anyway.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Shuffler on November 01, 2021, 11:07:18 PM
When ya coming back? I havent been active in MNM, but still miss ya in the MA :aok My lemon Trees had a BUMBER CROP this year!!!! BUMBER, not BUMPER..In WV..that dont go, round here"! SHUFFLER: Lost to "Red Dead", with A Side of FU Hurricanes, DR7: TOO SOON!... and lots of Folk, gone now, that I never got to play with. I got you a Vita Mix...it could "Mix" a Margarita, NO? :O I sort of agree with,OP! Once I get "Hints" as to who those Ponies are....I break off! NO! I wont follow him to his Mate, that I/Others, just shot down. They are VERY CORDIAL Folk! Is that style of play Frustrating? YES/SHO-NUFF! Is that style for me? NOPE! I usually fly around, below 6K, looking for GVs to Bomb. Come on down, "EX Musketeers"! :rofl Now that I have learned "Evasive Techniques", not as much frustration! THIS IS WHAT I PLAY FOR!!!! Its why I fly the Spit-16. 3 bombs, and better capabilities than an 47, which can also carry 3 bombs! The "16" can easily turn the tables on This type of folk! Just look up my Stats! Looks like I can hold my own, so to speak! Fugitive has his points too! As we have discussed this issue, more than a few times. Its Aces High...YES! I missed the "Hay Days", but FULLY ADOPTED A"RED YOUR DEAD" style of play! "Red Dead"/Red you are dead(I sense a facsimile lol) mentality!!!! Why else would a 16, have BOMBS? For use "on light targets and other thinly armored GVs"...OOPS!!!! Killed Many a Tiger2 with those bombs! Wait for it(200 BLOW UP)? PRICELESS :rofl Hope you and Your's, are well!!! I am about to call in the Nat Guard's K-9's, and search parties, to look for ya! :aok
Howdy howdy howdy :) I am still contemplating new controllers. May be awhile... may be soon. May be ... May. LOL
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: TequilaChaser on November 01, 2021, 11:15:19 PM
I always watched my score. I scored higher than most. I could get way up there when some folks were only 1 or 2. I might be 100 or more...... I'm sorry if this comes across as bragging... I'm just that good I guess. :D
ROFL....Shuf, I think they all should listen to "tattoos and scars" by Montgomery Gentry.... yes they all may have been around awhile and seen things....but they're still green horns...heh
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: zack1234 on November 02, 2021, 02:42:19 AM
I have had more chick action than those who have or had high scores :old:
The standards were not high but owt is better than nowt :)
Bruv is ginger beer and in denile :rofl
You bunch of fatties
You all should on TLC channel :)
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: TequilaChaser on November 02, 2021, 03:32:45 AM
I have had more chick action than those who have or had high scores :old:
The standards were not high but owt is better than nowt :)
Bruv is ginger beer and in denile :rofl
You bunch of fatties
You all should on TLC channel :)
I take you up on a few of your statements...some I'm definitely not too proud of....
Considering your first statement....I got you covered by more than a country mile...and that was before 1990 (had been around the world 2 nearly 3 times by then)
About your 2nd statement: if you are referring to the standards of how good players were, well like batfink says...on any given day! and I quit counting how many I taught early on in my time as a Trainer in AH long past the 5,000 mark (but I was also a Trainer among other positions in Air Warrior).... I guess you can put the number right over 8,000+ total both AW & AH combined...
Bruv is a great fellow, trying to grow and raise a family...got nothing bad to say about him....been where he is at and we have killed each other numerous times in different arenas / events
I am 6' 1" (sometimes they say I am just 6ft heh) but in 2009 I weighed 168 lbs, by 2015 I weighed 252, at that time I said enough and by 2018 I had dropped down to 195... today I average 181 to 190 every 10 days....so I am no fatties, heh.....
Here is a challenge for you if you still flying!
Show up November 13th Saturday night 9pm EST and try and stop me from winning 5 rounds to win the event.....actually that challenge goes out to everyone who thinks they can stop me!
Should have put that in a new thread now that I have thought about it...oh well
TC
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 02, 2021, 03:36:55 AM
Yes war and live combat are like that, this however is a game. I think most players expect a certain amount of fun and if they dont get that they will move on to some thing they do find fun. Then all of the real war "want to be's" can circle around at 30k until they run out of fuel or HTC turns off the server due to lack of funds.
Enjoy! :aok
Just because it's a game, players aren't supposed to use real world tactics and instead just use one trick pony gamey maneuvers? Yes, it's just a game but it is also a combat simulation and real world tactics are just as valid than the one trick pony maneuvers.
In my opinion it is a lot more sad that the majority of those that cry about the lack of fights or how others fight, don't know squat about BFMs or ACM. There is more to aerial combat than the overshoot reversal.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: TequilaChaser on November 02, 2021, 03:42:08 AM
Just because it's a game, players aren't supposed to use real world tactics and instead just use one trick pony gamey maneuvers? Yes, it's just a game but it is also a combat simulation and real world tactics are just as valid than the one trick pony maneuvers.
In my opinion it is a lot more sad that the majority of those that cry about the lack of fights or how others fight, don't know squat about BFMs or ACM. There is more to aerial combat than the overshoot reversal.
Exactly
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on November 02, 2021, 07:56:46 AM
That's why AvA was popular back in the day
The room had more t&b in it in a day than you could find in a week in MA
If it isn't controlled by plane set or arena limits, you get what we have now in MA
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: whiteman on November 02, 2021, 10:03:28 AM
The room had more t&b in it in a day than you could find in a week in MA
If it isn't controlled by plane set or arena limits, you get what we have now in MA
Eagler
While it had a higher percentage of T&B players, it also had plenty of those that had no problem getting in the middle of a 1v1. Generally those that made it their home and cried the loudest about people needing to learn to T&B. It wasn't some bastion of 1v1 honor code, there were plenty of scumbags. I spent a lot of time in there, but not to much because of the level of hypocrisy.
Some how back in the day i also found plenty of T&B in the MA, and actually more 1v1.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: TheBug on November 02, 2021, 12:29:26 PM
While it had a higher percentage of T&B players, it also had plenty of those that had no problem getting in the middle of a 1v1. Generally those that made it their home and cried the loudest about people needing to learn to T&B. It wasn't some bastion of 1v1 honor code, there were plenty of scumbags. I spent a lot of time in there, but not to much because of the level of hypocrisy.
Some how back in the day i also found plenty of T&B in the MA, and actually more 1v1.
I'm thinking, maybe incorrectly, the "back in the day" that Eagler is referring to predates your experiences.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 02, 2021, 12:39:31 PM
I've never understood the unshakable sense of entitlement some players feel to have and uninterrupted 1v1 in the middle of a Massively-Multiplayer-Online-Game combat arena.
Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Volron on November 02, 2021, 02:07:09 PM
I've never understood the unshakable sense of entitlement some players feel to have and uninterrupted 1v1 in the middle of a Massively-Multiplayer-Online-Game combat arena.
Good luck with that.
Could've sworn there was an arena created for 1v1's... :bolt:
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 02, 2021, 02:35:57 PM
I've never understood the unshakable sense of entitlement some players feel to have and uninterrupted 1v1 in the middle of a Massively-Multiplayer-Online-Game combat arena.
Good luck with that.
:aok
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Oldman731 on November 02, 2021, 07:46:45 PM
I've never understood the unshakable sense of entitlement some players feel to have and uninterrupted 1v1 in the middle of a Massively-Multiplayer-Online-Game combat arena.
Somehow, I'm not surprised.
- oldman
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on November 02, 2021, 08:03:18 PM
If Hitech changed icons to 3K, It would help slow the ganging phenomenon a tad bit. In all fairness, if you are flying a p40 in the MA. It would be extremely challenging not to get picked by more than 2 planes. It's all about accepting the challenge of the plane you are flying that's not a BnZ type of planes. It is very challenging not to get ganged in the MA, therfore players fly the fastest planes as timidly as possible to avoid the gang. Many don't even understand ACM or how to use defense maneuvers to escape a fight. I always try to drag players out and get them alone, when they come out too deep, then you can attack them for a minute or 2 before the gang comes. If they have the E, try to draw them out away from others and use defense techniques to evade them while moving toward safety. The game is far more challenging in planes that simply can't press E and regain 350 quickly to escape the gang.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on November 02, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
Just because it's a game, players aren't supposed to use real world tactics and instead just use one trick pony gamey maneuvers? Yes, it's just a game but it is also a combat simulation and real world tactics are just as valid than the one trick pony maneuvers.
In my opinion it is a lot more sad that the majority of those that cry about the lack of fights or how others fight, don't know squat about BFMs or ACM. There is more to aerial combat than the overshoot reversal.
Real world tactics vs real world tactics, sure. Ya'll fly around up there at 25K+ and enjoy yourselves. I think to OP is talking about pickers making a pass and "extending" for 2 sectors.
The room had more t&b in it in a day than you could find in a week in MA
If it isn't controlled by plane set or arena limits, you get what we have now in MA
Eagler
I've been here since tour 21 and I dont remember the AvA EVER being popular. Sure it had some surges but it was never popular to any more than a dozen or 2 guys. FSO, now thats was popular.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Oldman731 on November 02, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I've been here since tour 21 and I dont remember the AvA EVER being popular. Sure it had some surges but it was never popular to any more than a dozen or 2 guys. FSO, now thats was popular.
Your memory fails you, dude. From the time it was called "Combat Theater" until sometime around 2009, it was common to have 40-60 people in the theater every night. I recall one night (but it was only one) when we exceeded 100. Granted, the MA(s) was/were drawing far more people, but the AvA had a very devoted following for many years.
- oldman
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: TequilaChaser on November 03, 2021, 06:53:13 AM
Your memory fails you, dude. From the time it was called "Combat Theater" until sometime around 2009, it was common to have 40-60 people in the theater every night. I recall one night (but it was only one) when we exceeded 100. Granted, the MA(s) was/were drawing far more people, but the AvA had a very devoted following for many years.
- oldman
Yes indeed it was like AirWarrior's Fighter Town on massive steroids there for awhile
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 08:44:40 AM
Your memory fails you, dude. From the time it was called "Combat Theater" until sometime around 2009, it was common to have 40-60 people in the theater every night. I recall one night (but it was only one) when we exceeded 100. Granted, the MA(s) was/were drawing far more people, but the AvA had a very devoted following for many years.
- oldman
Yeah, I always enjoyed the CT/AvA - flew them quite a bit.
In the MA I'm more about the la7, where in the AvA, because the matchups were more equal, I flew a lot more variety of both allied/axis planes. The matchups were fun, and challenging when icon and radar settings were adjusted, which they often were, lol.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on November 03, 2021, 12:17:31 PM
Would rather be in a 109f but you don't make it back to base as the faster plane gang usually can catch you
Too bad a barrier doesn't pop up to keep the pickers out of a close t&b
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vulcan on November 03, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
That's why I like the 9T, has a good turn to the right and the 37mm has a long reach. Had a pair of ponies try the drop and extend on me in the weekend and was rewarded with a nice double.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 02:12:43 PM
Too bad a barrier doesn't pop up to keep the pickers out of a close t&b
Why don't you just ask on chan200 if anyone wants to meet you in MPA for some actual 1v1 in a protected environment? Or PM someone you had a good fight with that got interrupted to meet you there for uninterrupted 1v1?
Isn't that what that arena was specifically designed for? And opposed to the open sandbox Melee arena where no one is obligated to follow unwritten rules or wait in line to ask Mother-May-I? before being allowed to pull the trigger.
Hint: there are no unwritten rules. It is a rule, or it isn't. If it is a rule, it will be memorialized in HTC's player agreement or it will be enforced by code changes, or in the case of Scenario, specifically enumerated in the Scenario write-up. Other than that, it's not a rule; it's just some old man's opinion.
Or I guess the Training Arena would work?
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Simon on November 03, 2021, 03:18:08 PM
Why don't you just ask on chan200 if anyone wants to meet you in MPA for some actual 1v1 in a protected environment? Or PM someone you had a good fight with that got interrupted to meet you there for uninterrupted 1v1?
You can't PM the other teams. Asking for a 1v1 on 200 is usually met with crickets, or taken as some kind of chest-thumping. Not to mention the fact that you're asking someone to stop what they're doing and go land to join you in another arena.
...no one is obligated to follow unwritten rules or wait in line to ask Mother-May-I? before being allowed to pull the trigger.
I'm not sure what's so difficult about asking if a player needs help before piling on a 1v1. A little respect for the air combat aspect of this game would go a long way, and is the O.P.'s entire point. I'm accused of vulching and picking frequently, but I always ask before interrupting a 1v1.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: 100Coogn on November 03, 2021, 03:27:27 PM
A little respect for the air combat aspect of this game would go a long way, and is the O.P.'s entire point. I'm accused of vulching and picking frequently, but I always ask before interrupting a 1v1.
As I've always done. If they need my help, it's usually because of Bingo ammo/fuel.
Coogan
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 03:51:22 PM
I'm not sure what's so difficult about asking if a player needs help before piling on a 1v1. A little respect for the air combat aspect of this game would go a long way, and is the O.P.'s entire point. I'm accused of vulching and picking frequently, but I always ask before interrupting a 1v1.
You're welcome to do that if it's your preference, but it is not a rule and no one else is obligated to abide by your preferences.
Do you ask the opponent?
If the opponent prefers you to stay out, did you ask and do you oblige?
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: SPKmes on November 03, 2021, 04:03:32 PM
Some have not or will never, get it..
but when you find the ones that do.... great times to be had
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 04:05:14 PM
I've seen GV'rs claim that you can't bomb them if they are not taking a base. Is that another rule?
If the opponent kills the friendly, can I attack then? Or do I have to wait until they climb back up to my alt? Or until they rtb and repair? I'm sure someone has a rule about that.
If the opponent kills the friendly and I catch them in a non-turny plane, do I have to wait while they go get a turny plane? What if they are low on ammo? I'm sure someone has made up a personal rule.
I've see players claim that you shouldn't drop hangars unless there is an active attempt at taking a base. So I guess degrading enemy resources is out too.
Are two fighters not allowed to team on a bomber? Or is there a separate set of secret unwritten rules for bombers?
Man a lot of unwritten rules around.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Cluzig on November 03, 2021, 04:07:47 PM
It takes all sorts of pilots and players to make this game but only one type to ruin it.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: SPKmes on November 03, 2021, 04:09:39 PM
it is a numbers thing...
the lame out ways the game these days back with the bigger numbers there was definitely more game than lame
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 04:12:24 PM
You're welcome to do that if it's your preference, but it is not a rule and no one else is obligated to abide by your preferences.
Do you ask the opponent?
If the opponent prefers you to stay out, did you ask and do you oblige?
You're missing the entire point of this thread. No one is claiming it's against the rules to display poor gamesmanship. It would be beneficial to this game and all involved if everyone were to maintain a standard of decency and respect for the art of air combat. That's the main point of the game, right? I and many others are here for the dogfights.
Yes, I do lay off opponents that ask me to. As do many. Usually I don't often have the luxury of knowing who I'm engaging, but if it's someone like-minded, I definitely give the fight the respect it deserves which includes not HO'ing, asking teammates not to jump in and seeing it through to the end. Or laying off once the opponent is rendered defenseless.
I do not expect that from anyone, but I do hope that some of the unadulterated shamelessness that I witness frequently can be reduced by persistent peer pressure. Defenders of poor behaviour empower more of it.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: SPKmes on November 03, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
it is not unwritten rules ... it is sportsmanship.. I know I know...the problem with that word is the word sport...which people jump on and decry but it is not a sport... however the definition of the word is what is looking to be express when using it...fair and generous behavior or treatment of others.. four elements of sportsmanship, good form, the will to win, equity and fairness....back a few moons ago the claim was this was a sim not a sport..
There was also many things going on..there was big missions with huge formations and squads doing the war thing....and then there was the guys who like to mix it up and play an exciting and skillful game... it was sometimes about one on one ... but it was more about a mutual respect of the game at play.. there was the thought that your win is getting angles and getting the position of the rear half... that was the fun of it....it also help keep fights living and exciting.... eventually you would get the BnZers turn up to cause some havoc...but they would move on...
just like there used to be bomb and balers... most made the trip home ... more bail now...but probably more the fact that there is less bombers and missions happening.
to many here it is like putting a professional sports team up against highschool team.... and if they can't do that...they don't want to play .... they also want twice the amount of players too.... need to make sure this is a win you know.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 04:36:51 PM
I do not expect that from anyone, but I do hope that some of the unadulterated shamelessness that I witness frequently can be reduced by persistent peer pressure. Defenders of poor behaviour empower more of it.
No, you're missing the point.
This is an open sandbox Melee arena. All players are free to do what ever they feel like within HTC player agreement without exploiting software bug or hacking. That is the point of open sandbox.
When you use words like "shamlessness" and "poor behavior" you are implying there are rules that someone isn't following. You can do what ever you want. I reject your assertion that anyone else is obligated to recognize your personal preferences. I reject the idea that anyone abiding by HTC's player agreement and not hacking has any other limitations on what they do in the open sandbox. That is the meaning of open sandbox. And anyone implying otherwise is delusional and should simply be laughed at. That's my rule. ;)
It's Westworld, not Sunday School.
Besides, if Hitech agreed with you, he would simply add those rules to the player agreement or code magic forcefields like Eagler wants. In 20 years, I've seen no evidence of him moving in that direction. Take a hint.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: SPKmes on November 03, 2021, 04:37:10 PM
Don't you just hate it when someone post with way more etiquette than you while you are typing your next post.... then you are like doh!! damn you simon hahahaha
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: SPKmes on November 03, 2021, 04:38:41 PM
he also doesn't coad don't be a dick .... but it has been said before
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 04:42:32 PM
I think it's more a SA thing. Just because you think you are in a sandbox doesn't mean you behave like a child.
I've seen GV'ers on this very forum state that if tanks are engaged in fights and not within the airfield perimeter, that it is unsportsmanlike to fly by in a fighter bomber and drop an egg on them.
Is that a new standard all are obligated to abide by? If I drop an egg on a tank (if you could ever see the damn things), am I acting child-like?
Or is that some BS "standard" some GV'er would like to believe is real?
How do I tell which is which? Who gets to decide for me which activities are "sportsmanlike" in the open sandbox Melee? Who has Hitech assigned that authority?
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Simon on November 03, 2021, 05:17:20 PM
This is an open sandbox Melee arena. All players are free to do what ever they feel like within HTC player agreement without exploiting software bug or hacking. That is the point of open sandbox.
When you use words like "shamlessness" and "poor behavior" you are implying there are rules that someone isn't following.
This isn't GTA. It's MMO. Operative word being players. I am not implying or advocating for behavior enforcement through rules. In fact I explicitly stated the opposite.
I am asking for awareness that it's to the benefit of our game if people conduct themselves with respect for the other players' enjoyment and core object of the game. You on the other hand are defending people's right to do what ever they want, despite how it impacts the other players' fun. Why?
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 05:47:55 PM
You on the other hand are defending people's right to do what ever they want
Here I think we've stumbled upon a point of agreement.
I absolutely, 100%, without qualification or reservation, defend other player's right to do what ever the heck they want in the open sandbox Melee combat arena.
I only recognize these constraints:
1. Abide by the HTC player agreement 2. Don't hack the game 3. Don't intentionally exploit obvious bugs in the software
I was trying to find the actual player agreement text. I suspect 2 and 3 are already included into 1. I know they could get you booted.
That's it. Period. Full stop. I recognize no other constraints other than my whim.
If someone loves egging tanks, even those just involved in tank v tank battles? :aok Rock on Garth!
If someone wants to drop fighter hangars at a base they have no intention of taking anytime soon? :aok Rock on Garth!
If 5 guys want to pile on one hapless enemy who got himself in a bad situation? :aok Rock on Garth!
If I'm that guy that 5 guys are piling on because I got stupid? :aok Rock on Garth!
If 20 guys want to drop ack and strafe idjits trying to launch from a capped field? :aok Rock on Garth!
If someone flys by a 1v1 and decides not to join? :aok Rock on Garth! (Which I usually do for tactical reasons, not ethics. I just reject anyone else telling me which I should have done. I do what I please. )
One of my most amusing moments in AH late one night was following a damaged, smoking bomber down to one crate at treetop alt, staying above and just out of gun range. I let him get within eye sight of the base he was heading toward and then dove and finished him. Why? Because it's fricken Westworld.
One of my most amusing moments in AH late one night was following a damaged, smoking bomber down to one crate at treetop alt, staying above and just out of gun range. I let him get within eye sight of the base he was heading toward and then dove and finished him. Why? Because it's fricken Westworld.
He probably thought I was giving him a chivalrous escort. Sauce for the goose. :devil
Dick move. An example of the problem of selfish behavior, and being proud of it. Do better and this game will last longer.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 06:30:22 PM
Dick move. An example of the problem of selfish behavior, and being proud of it. Do better and this game will last longer.
Ah. A new rule. I'm not allowed to shoot down a wounded enemy bomber. (I'm writing all these down.)
Or am I obligated to shoot him down within a certain number of seconds?
Or was it because I had an alt advantage? I never attack a bomber without an alt advantage. So I can never shoot down a bomber?
Should I have asked on chan200 if it was OK if I shot at him? Mother-May-I? Did he not have a chance to shoot me down?
If that whole time he was radio'ing friends to meet me at a higher alt at his base, would they be obligated to let me go?
Sooooo many complicated rules.
(You do realize he didn't actually die in real life, right?)
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Simon on November 03, 2021, 06:39:23 PM
Learning how not to be a jerk is something your parents should have taught you. I'm asking that people who do know the difference conduct themselves in a more gamesman like manner.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 06:47:12 PM
Learning how not to be a jerk is something your parents should have taught you. I'm asking that people who do know the difference conduct themselves in a more gamesman like manner.
You keep babbling platitudes, but you never answer the sticky questions.
Let's try a simple one:
Is it unsportsmanlike for me to egg a tank that is not engaged in taking a base?
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: TheBug on November 03, 2021, 06:55:35 PM
A simpler one:
What's the point of the argument?
We should all be asking that.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: SPKmes on November 03, 2021, 07:00:15 PM
I've seen GV'ers on this very forum state that if tanks are engaged in fights and not within the airfield perimeter, that it is unsportsmanlike to fly by in a fighter bomber and drop an egg on them.
THat is what most of the players mainstay is
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 07:26:20 PM
I absolutely, 100%, without qualification or reservation, defend other player's right to do what ever the heck they want in the open sandbox Melee combat arena.
No one here contests that. The point is that it would be a better gaming experience - probably for everyone, but who knows - if people showed a bit more self-restraint.
For example, I doubt that many of us would brag about shooting down a crippled bomber trying to land. But I may be wrong.
- oldman
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 09:08:09 PM
You keep babbling platitudes, but you never answer the sticky questions.
Let's try a simple one:
Is it unsportsmanlike for me to egg a tank that is not engaged in taking a base?
Personally, if a tank is pushing towards one of my bases, yup he's fair game, if hes defending a baes we are trying to take, again yup fair game. On the other hand if they are in a tank town type setup beating on each other Im not going to bother going out of my way to hunt GVs. I prefer hunting planes.
In your tail of following a buff home only to shoot him down in sight of his base, ya totally classless move. If you wanted to shoot him down do so when you come across him. Whats to point of following him all the way back to his base to kill him then, other than being a dick. If you show a little class and did let the buff limp home, maybe he'd be back in another set to try his luck one more time. Instead, you pissed him off and maybe he never comes back. Congrats, you chased away another player. Good for you, you got your jollies and the rest of us are one player closer to seeing the door close.
I think THAT is the point of the thread.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 03, 2021, 09:21:22 PM
Personally, if a tank is pushing towards one of my bases, yup he's fair game, if hes defending a baes we are trying to take, again yup fair game. On the other hand if they are in a tank town type setup beating on each other Im not going to bother going out of my way to hunt GVs. I prefer hunting planes.
In your tail of following a buff home only to shoot him down in sight of his base, ya totally classless move. If you wanted to shoot him down do so when you come across him. Whats to point of following him all the way back to his base to kill him then, other than being a dick. If you show a little class and did let the buff limp home, maybe he'd be back in another set to try his luck one more time. Instead, you pissed him off and maybe he never comes back. Congrats, you chased away another player. Good for you, you got your jollies and the rest of us are one player closer to seeing the door close.
I think THAT is the point of the thread.
First of all this was back when you had 400 players a night, so sure, I'm responsible for AH's precipitous decline because I shot down a bomber. :rolleyes:
Is there a set time in which I'm allowed to shoot?
Am I not letting him get closer to base and reinforcements? Is it my fault his team hung him out to dry?
Could he have not just shot me down as I made my pass? I generally get killed by bombers more than I kill.
Who gets to make these rules to decide when and when I can't shoot?
He could have bailed or nose argued into the ground. he knew I as there and kept flying. That was his choice.
And what harm did I do him by blowing up his little cartoon plane? After he bombed our strat and shot down teammates? Did he die in real life when I did that?
Because he didn't get to land his points? So he's a score wh*re? I have sympathy why?
You people live in an echo chamber.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on November 04, 2021, 06:29:45 AM
To me the game is all about good a2a...always has been always will be..
What's great about AH is if you stink in fighters you can stooge around in a bomber
If you can't handle that you can crawl around in a gv ..
And if you don't have that skill set you can grab a gun and take pot shots at the planes you have the can't fly or a boat while bobbing around offshore...
To me it has always been about fighters...
There's a reason if you washed out of fighter training but could still fly somewhat they put you in bombers or made you a gunner...
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Wiley on November 04, 2021, 10:49:18 AM
First of all this was back when you had 400 players a night, so sure, I'm responsible for AH's precipitous decline because I shot down a bomber. :rolleyes:
Is there a set time in which I'm allowed to shoot?
Am I not letting him get closer to base and reinforcements? Is it my fault his team hung him out to dry?
Could he have not just shot me down as I made my pass? I generally get killed by bombers more than I kill.
Who gets to make these rules to decide when and when I can't shoot?
He could have bailed or nose argued into the ground. he knew I as there and kept flying. That was his choice.
And what harm did I do him by blowing up his little cartoon plane? After he bombed our strat and shot down teammates? Did he die in real life when I did that?
Because he didn't get to land his points? So he's a score wh*re? I have sympathy why?
You people live in an echo chamber.
...For a guy I've disagreed with as much as I have over the years with Trips, I'm surprised how much I've been agreeing with him lately. Guess his spirit finally got broken. :D
As I've often said, the only rules in the MA are what you can do in the game, and what you can't. Expect the enemy to do everything they can to kill you, always. If you get chivalry from your opponents, swell, but you can't demand it. How you conduct yourself toward the others is also your own business.
One man's "respecting the 1v1" is another man's "abandoning a friendly to die when you could've helped".
Expecting the arena to bend around your self-imposed rules is a) annoying and b) ridiculous.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: TheBug on November 05, 2021, 01:50:15 PM
Moving Asia Email List to the Bottom.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: LCADolby on November 05, 2021, 04:22:33 PM
Some people don't get the art of air combat, that's why they are frequently the 3rd man in on a con. The rest of us watching, roll our eyes so hard we have to barrel roll in the opposite direction to see straight.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Oldman731 on November 05, 2021, 06:25:20 PM
Some people don't get the art of air combat, that's why they are frequently the 3rd man in on a con. The rest of us watching, roll our eyes so hard we have to barrel roll in the opposite direction to see straight.
Ah! A fellow delicate flower. So comforting not to be alone.
- oldman
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: TequilaChaser on November 06, 2021, 01:53:03 AM
Ah! A fellow delicate flower. So comforting not to be alone.
- oldman
damn oldma! you just now realizing dolby ? just messing with ya brother
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: LCADolby on November 08, 2021, 06:35:02 AM
The inefficiency of having more than 2 people on a single con sets the German in me on fire. :D
The 3rd guy should be climbing and covering while the fight goes on. Ganging leaves you and your squad-mates vulnerable to incoming, higher energy contacts. This has been my TED talk. :old:
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on November 21, 2021, 07:48:01 PM
First of all this was back when you had 400 players a night, so sure, I'm responsible for AH's precipitous decline because I shot down a bomber. :rolleyes:
Is there a set time in which I'm allowed to shoot?
Am I not letting him get closer to base and reinforcements? Is it my fault his team hung him out to dry?
Could he have not just shot me down as I made my pass? I generally get killed by bombers more than I kill.
Who gets to make these rules to decide when and when I can't shoot?
He could have bailed or nose argued into the ground. he knew I as there and kept flying. That was his choice.
And what harm did I do him by blowing up his little cartoon plane? After he bombed our strat and shot down teammates? Did he die in real life when I did that?
Because he didn't get to land his points? So he's a score wh*re? I have sympathy why?
You people live in an echo chamber.
Geez. There are no “rules” true. like in life there are no rules against being an jerk. But chose to be one, and you’ll be alone. The point of the thread is “Treat your opponents like they don’t matter, and you won’t have any opponents”.
Let that sink while you’re screaming that you can do what ever you want because there are no “rules”
There is no rule… To hold a door open for someone behind you. To allow people to alternate merging when a lane is closed. To not read your book out loud on a subway. And so on. But people do those things because it makes thing more enjoyable for all concerned.
Are you one of those people that can’t see what the obvious things to do are that make things better? You need a law or rule by some Authority or Government or you don’t know how to behave? Your inability to determine where the lines are seems purposely naive, or hopelessly obtuse. Whatever dude.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 21, 2021, 08:39:20 PM
Geez. There are no “rules” true. like in life there are no rules against being an jerk. But chose to be one, and you’ll be alone. The point of the thread is “Treat your opponents like they don’t matter, and you won’t have any opponents”.
Let that sink while you’re screaming that you can do what ever you want because there are no “rules”
There is no rule… To hold a door open for someone behind you. To allow people to alternate merging when a lane is closed. To not read your book out loud on a subway. And so on. But people do those things because it makes thing more enjoyable for all concerned.
Are you one of those people that can’t see what the obvious things to do are that make things better? You need a law or rule by some Authority or Government or you don’t know how to behave? Your inability to determine where the lines are seems purposely naive, or hopelessly obtuse. Whatever dude.
I agree with this 100%. Unfortunately many people seem to have been brought up to be A holes instead of recognizing these unspoken rules the rest of us live with day in and day out.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 21, 2021, 09:25:45 PM
I agree with this 100%. Unfortunately many people seem to have been brought up to be A holes instead of recognizing these unspoken rules the rest of us live with day in and day out.
Well, given that the OP is so successful in enforcing his individual set of personal rules on others that he felt the need to come to the forum and emotionally show his azz; given that I've seen endless variation on this whine over and over and over again on this forum since day one....
I have to ask, how's that workin for ya?
Maybe Vinkman should yell louder and jump up and down harder. Keep trying, man. Eventually I'm sure everyone will fly the plane he thinks they should, at the speed he is comfortable with, at an altitude he likes, and only engage or disengages after he has given them permission to do so.
It's only a matter of persistence. Wear them down.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on November 22, 2021, 05:51:28 AM
Well, given that the OP is so successful in enforcing his individual set of personal rules on others that he felt the need to come to the forum and emotionally show his azz; given that I've seen endless variation on this whine over and over and over again on this forum since day one....
I have to ask, how's that workin for ya?
Maybe Vinkman should yell louder and jump up and down harder. Keep trying, man. Eventually I'm sure everyone will fly the plane he thinks they should, at the speed he is comfortable with, at an altitude he likes, and only engage or disengages after he has given them permission to do so.
It's only a matter of persistence. Wear them down.
Yep. obtuse.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on November 22, 2021, 08:43:06 AM
Well, given that the OP is so successful in enforcing his individual set of personal rules on others that he felt the need to come to the forum and emotionally show his azz; given that I've seen endless variation on this whine over and over and over again on this forum since day one....
I have to ask, how's that workin for ya?
Maybe Vinkman should yell louder and jump up and down harder. Keep trying, man. Eventually I'm sure everyone will fly the plane he thinks they should, at the speed he is comfortable with, at an altitude he likes, and only engage or disengages after he has given them permission to do so.
It's only a matter of persistence. Wear them down.
The point is that that type of play drives away more players than it helps keep. Vink, I and those many others that post about this hope that some of these players, after hours of circling around looking to pick a fight realize that their picks are coming fewer and father between and may smarten up. Maybe learn to fly something else, or a different style and be part of the movement to help bring more fights to the arenas in stead of driving them away.
Pipe dream? Maybe, but it is something that will help the game in general, and it really doesnt cost anything.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Eagler on November 22, 2021, 08:56:11 AM
Trips do you even still play AH or just haunt these boards?
If you do please share your handle so I can say hi in game :)
Eagler
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
Pipe dream? Maybe, but it is something that will help the game in general, and it really doesnt cost anything.
The fundamental point You and Vinkman miss...
The terms "runstang", "pickers", "gangers" "HO-Tards", etc were not invented yesterday. There have been posts like this periodically since day one. Probably all the way back to AW.
In all that time, and all the rant posts about someone not liking how others fly, no one I know of has changed the way they fly in an open sandbox because some player posts a forum rant. They will fly however they please within HTC player agreement and the constraints enforced by the software.
That has always been true. It is true now. It always will be true in the future, no matter how loudly Vinkman (or which ever crazy person on the street corner) yells or how hard he jumps up and down demanding they obey him. Period. Full stop.
That may be the best autocorrect I've seen this year. Please let it stand. :rofl
As to Vink and Fugi, have you guys ever considered the possibility that ranting on the boards and on channel because someone interrupted your precious 1v1 or shot you from an angle that you didn't like, or just killed you in a way you find unacceptable might put some players off of the game? I doubt you're self aware enough to realize it.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: JimmyD3 on November 22, 2021, 09:56:57 AM
The terms "runstang", "pickers", "gangers" "HO-Tards", etc were not invented yesterday. There have been posts like this periodically since day one. Probably all the way back to AW.
In all that time, and all the rant posts about someone not liking how others fly, no one I know of has changed the way they fly in an open sandbox because some player posts a forum rant. They will fly however they please within HTC player agreement and the constraints enforced by the software.
That has always been true. It is true now. It always will be true in the future, no matter how loudly Vinkman (or which ever crazy person on the street corner) yells or how hard he jumps up and down demanding they obey him. Period. Full stop.
As Wiley put succulently.:
Btw, this thread had been dead over a week until Vinkman decided he had to resurrect it. :rolleyes:
Noticed you are in the DFW area, I live in Garland, NE of Dallas. Would love to meet and have a cup of coffee or lunch. :cheers:
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 09:59:08 AM
That may be the best autocorrect I've seen this year. Please let it stand. :rofl
As to Vink and Fugi, have you guys ever considered the possibility that ranting on the boards and on channel because someone interrupted your precious 1v1 or shot you from an angle that you didn't like, or just killed you in a way you find unacceptable might put some players off of the game? I doubt you're self aware enough to realize it.
Wiley.
Gak!
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 10:02:24 AM
Noticed you are in the DFW area, I live in Garland, NE of Dallas. Would love to meet and have a cup of coffee or lunch. :cheers:
It is a small world. My wife's oldest son in an art professor at UNT in Denton. He and his wife live in that section of Denton known as 'Idiot's Hill.' There used to be an old WBs player from the metroplex who went by the call sign 'chumly,' very fun to fly with.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on November 22, 2021, 10:40:46 AM
The terms "runstang", "pickers", "gangers" "HO-Tards", etc were not invented yesterday. There have been posts like this periodically since day one. Probably all the way back to AW.
In all that time, and all the rant posts about someone not liking how others fly, no one I know of has changed the way they fly in an open sandbox because some player posts a forum rant. They will fly however they please within HTC player agreement and the constraints enforced by the software.
That has always been true. It is true now. It always will be true in the future, no matter how loudly Vinkman (or which ever crazy person on the street corner) yells or how hard he jumps up and down demanding they obey him. Period. Full stop.
As Wiley put it succinctly.:
Btw, this thread had been dead over a week until Vinkman decided he had to resurrect it. :rolleyes:
In all the years I've been here I have seen many players change how they play and they have become much better players for it. Many others thankfully quit because they dont change and bore themselve right out of the game.
I dont know if my posts had anything to do with them changing but if it makes one person stop and think about how they play the game, Im ok with that. Same goes for in game, though I've tuned down my chatter in game a lot, if calling out poor game play now and then make a player stop and think, then great.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 10:45:26 AM
In all the years I've been here I have seen many players change how they play and they have become much better players for it. Many others thankfully quit because they dont change and bore themselve right out of the game.
I dont know if my posts had anything to do with them changing but if it makes one person stop and think about how they play the game, Im ok with that. Same goes for in game, though I've tuned down my chatter in game a lot, if calling out poor game play now and then make a player stop and think, then great.
It's funny, because I've had, over the last year and a half, a lot of email conversations with WBs players, people who are essentially nice people in the real world. It's something about that game controller/virtual combat experience that turns them into idiots. In the same manner that people will say things on FB that they wouldn't dare to say to someone face to face. I don't pretend to understand that, either.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 11:06:02 AM
Yes they have ALWAYS been here, but they are much more numerous now. In the old days you could get 2,3, 4 flights in a row with nothing but good fun fights, then get a HOer, or runner. Today it is the opposite. 3,4,5 flights in a row you get HOed, or ganged, or stuck chasing a runners, then the next flight you get a fun fight with someone. It's kinda like golf now, you get that one got fight/shot that makes you come back again, and again.
[...]
The same goes for the HOs and gangs. Old days many would stay out of a 3 on 1, now you have an extra 5 joining in to make it 8 on 1. Sure we had all this stuff in the old days, just not so much of it.
How has that lecturing players worked for ya all these years?
Have you convinced them all to play the way you want yet?
On the other hand, here is Fugi in 2015 sorta making a little sense:
You can't force people to fight! That was one of the reasons the capture chain thing didn't work. What they have to do is make players WANT to fight. Whether it is though perks, bonus points what ever players need some kind of carrot to change them from runners and hiders to fighters.
Maybe put the higher scoring players in late 30s, very early 40s planes to give newer less skilled players a more level playing field. Sure there will be those score potatos that will throw a lot of fights to get them back in there late war monsters but that will still give kills to those who have a hard time getting them. How they figure who gets the old planes or the newer isn't something I can figure out, Im sure someone who knows the coad can figure a way to set up a handycap system. :noid
Forcing people only drives them away and at this point it is the last things needed. Tie the win the war to K/D. Players will have to kill more (fight), and not lawndart as often to accumulate the points to win the war with the right number of fields. Again, someone who knows the coad would have to come up with a way to set it up.
The game has all the tools, and all the options for great battles high, low and on the sea. Things have got to be added to the coad to make all these thinks more important to players so they are used instead of players looking for way to get around all of these things and cut corners to get it done the quickest, easiest way.
Correct. Your "unwritten rules" don't exist. Players will do whatever they please within HTC player agreement and the constraint enforced by the "coad".
Glad to see you agreed with me way back in 2015. :rofl
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Wiley on November 22, 2021, 11:08:39 AM
It's funny, because I've had, over the last year and a half, a lot of email conversations with WBs players, people who are essentially nice people in the real world. It's something about that game controller/virtual combat experience that turns them into idiots. In the same manner that people will say things on FB that they wouldn't dare to say to someone face to face. I don't pretend to understand that, either.
I think the source of a lot of the friction is two of the many player philosophies that really rub wrong against each other. The guys that want Marquis of Queensbury honorable awesome duels and want their enemies to abide by their self-imposed restrictions vs people that see it as side vs side, actually trying to kill the other side, and expect them to do the same.
And ne'er the twain shall meet.
I don't take anything personal when the other side is trying to kill me. In an open arena, I find people that assume their opponents are bad people because the guys on the other side are throwing everything they have at them to try to win is laughable, and worthy of derision. Want duels? DA/private arenas are on the left.
If we were playing football, I'd expect these guys to whine about fairness when more than one guy attempts to sack the quarterback, or more than one guy covers a receiver.
It's a silly, self-centered way of looking at the game. And the level of hypocrisy it requires for them to claim moral superiority is both hilarious and infuriating in equal measure.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on November 22, 2021, 11:45:37 AM
How has that lecturing players worked for ya all these years?
Have you convinced them all to play the way you want yet?
On the other hand, here is Fugi in 2015 sorta making a little sense:
Correct. Your "unwritten rules" don't exist. Players will do whatever they please within HTC player agreement and the constraint enforced by the "coad".
Glad to see you agreed with me way back in 2015. :rofl
Some players have class, some have honor and when the new young guys come in to play most have neither. However some learn to have class and honor and become better players in the community. Has everyone changed their attitude? LOL!!! hell no! if I could do that the world would be a better place, but if I helped change one or two during the years here, Im happy.
I believe everyone can change for the better, evidently you dont and thats a bit sad.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 11:55:12 AM
So, are you claiming that after this rant post the arena has turned a 180 and now all players are abiding by Vinkman's Rules™?
If it opens one players eyes it's worth it. Sportsmanship is a learned behavior, and hence discussion is a prerequisite. For some people that is. Others are obtuse and never learn.
Yes, I have seen the behavior of many in the arena change for the better. Smart, reasonable people don't need a rule. :salute
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on November 22, 2021, 01:25:26 PM
I think the source of a lot of the friction is two of the many player philosophies that really rub wrong against each other. The guys that want Marquis of Queensbury honorable awesome duels and want their enemies to abide by their self-imposed restrictions vs people that see it as side vs side, actually trying to kill the other side, and expect them to do the same.
And ne'er the twain shall meet.
I don't take anything personal when the other side is trying to kill me. In an open arena, I find people that assume their opponents are bad people because the guys on the other side are throwing everything they have at them to try to win is laughable, and worthy of derision. Want duels? DA/private arenas are on the left.
If we were playing football, I'd expect these guys to whine about fairness when more than one guy attempts to sack the quarterback, or more than one guy covers a receiver.
It's a silly, self-centered way of looking at the game. And the level of hypocrisy it requires for them to claim moral superiority is both hilarious and infuriating in equal measure.
Wiley.
Red herrings. You're making your own false claims and then disputing them. No one asked to never be double teamed or picked. You made that up.
The unsportsmanlike play was defined as not engaging an enemy. When engaged some players chose to only run for one, two or even more sectors to avoid "playing."
Stop arguing with yourself and read the thread. :salute
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: Vinkman on November 22, 2021, 01:26:52 PM
Red herrings. You're making your own false claims and then disputing them. No one asked to never be double teamed or picked. You made that up.
The unsportsmanlike play was defined as not engaging an enemy. When engaged some players chose to only run for one, two or even more sectors to avoid "playing."
Stop arguing with yourself and read the thread. :salute
What are they running to then? Ack or friends. IE- They are trying to kill you in a way you don't want.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 01:33:22 PM
I suppose there will be no further forums rants about pickers and hoes ... in the years to come.
Those were not what I was addressing. READ the thread.
Every so often it's ok to re-address something. Very few people will go back through hundreds of thousands of the posts dating back to 2009 to review all of the old wisdom. Heck you can't even go to the beginning of this thread to stay on point. You've also repeated yourself in 75% of your own posts in this thread, yet you think it's un-necessary to adress something because "it's been covered before". Now that is obtuse. :salute
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 01:55:10 PM
I'd just like smaller maps to match the smaller subscriber base...
And to see all the former players give it a go again to increase the number of red planes every evening...purely selfish reasons :)
I have agreed with the prudence of trying smaller maps with the absolute minimal distance between bases for AHIII.
I have even offered to help make some of those if HT wanted to try and stand up a AHII server.
I would love to see 500 players a night back in AH. I have made concrete suggestion along the way that I think are things worth trying.
I won't however fault other player's play styles as long as they are abiding by the player agreement and not hacking. I assign no personal moral or ethical weight to any of their in-game tactical choices. I do not demand that other players play by my personal choices, no do I accept their hubris in telling me how I should fly.
If you think brow-beating players into adopting your personal standards is going to add 400 more players...then good luck with that.
If I agreed to stay silent so I won't be attacked for pointing out the obvious, it still wouldn't work.
No one is going to abide by any "unwritten rules" that weren't already what they wanted to do, and isn't going to accept any private player's attempt to define those if they don't already argree. They will only follow what they want to do and what HTC enforces through player agreement or code.
Sorry if that makes some people pout to hear that outload. But it is what it is.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 02:01:30 PM
You've also repeated yourself in 75% of your own posts in this thread, yet you think it's un-necessary to adress something because "it's been covered before". Now that is obtuse. :salute
Vinkman,
You are the one who resurrected a thread that had died off over a week ago.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on November 22, 2021, 02:57:26 PM
You are the one who resurrected a thread that had died off over a week ago.
I had been away from the board for a month. I was catching up on my thread, which you did your best to hijack. 14 pages and 7 of them are you saying the same thing over and over, like you're stuffing the ballot box during an election. The other 7 are people who agree with the op or made their point once so their opinions could be heard. Your Board etiquette isn't any better than your game etiquette. Chill out bro, we want your opinion but it's not all about you. :salute
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 03:10:22 PM
I removed some other text about a different topic for brevity and left a clear indicator showing some of the original quote had been truncated. It is also a direct link to the post so anyone interested can refer to the original.
Have you ever written a research paper?
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 03:13:48 PM
I had been away from the board for a month. I was catching up on my thread, which you did your best to hijack. 14 pages and 7 of them are you saying the same thing over and over, like you're stuffing the ballot box during an election. The other 7 are people who agree with the op or made their point once so their opinions could be heard. Your Board etiquette isn't any better than your game etiquette. Chill out bro, we want your opinion but it's not all about you. :salute
Because when you necro-bumped a dead thread, you did so by quoting me and making statements directed towards me, Genius.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on November 22, 2021, 04:05:48 PM
I removed some other text about a different topic for brevity and left a clear indicator showing some of the original quote had been truncated. It is also a direct link to the post so anyone interested can refer to the original.
Have you ever written a research paper?
Not for a long time, but we use to keep the whole quote together for context.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: CptTrips on November 22, 2021, 04:13:14 PM
Not for a long time, but we use to keep the whole quote together for context.
I didn't have my copy of Strunk & White handy, but I clearly made an attempt to indicate what I altered for fairness and the link is provided to the original for context.
If the punctuation wasn't correct, I think any fairly educated person would have understood my intent.
I think the source of a lot of the friction is two of the many player philosophies that really rub wrong against each other. The guys that want Marquis of Queensbury honorable awesome duels and want their enemies to abide by their self-imposed restrictions vs people that see it as side vs side, actually trying to kill the other side, and expect them to do the same.
And ne'er the twain shall meet.
It's a silly, self-centered way of looking at the game. And the level of hypocrisy it requires for them to claim moral superiority is both hilarious and infuriating in equal measure.
Wiley.
Wiley, I edited you comment to focus on one thing. And let me say that I don't want to appear to be talking down to you. I don't know you, but I believe this forum exists for the exchange of ideas. it's better when that happens courteously and without vitriol.
Having said that, I think there is room in just about any flight sim that I'm aware of for both types of players. I've been a part of dogfights where neither player had a clear advantage and one just runs out of ammo. They break off and rtb while posting 'bingo ammo' (or something similar) in the radio buffer. I tend to let them go in that situation, but I've seen people run them down, if they can, and kill them.
I've also maintained that flight sims, pick you platform, are great places to hunt and kill other people, but that there's no room for whining or complaining. So, if I'm trooping a field and someone from the 'enemy' decides to shoot down my C37 after I've dropped my troops, that's up to them. I just don't let the behavior of others dictate how I behave. That way lies madness.
Whenever I'm shot down, I always try to salute the person who got me. I will say that the options for doing that in AH leave me confused. I don't know whether to key the radio buffer to 'all' or to 'room.'
The ultimate truth is that 'a kill is a kill,' and points scored are points earned. I'm just not a points player. So, good luck flying and good hunting. And if you shoot me down and don't get a salute, I'm still working on it.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: dieter on November 22, 2021, 07:18:24 PM
Hey just a thought......I don't code, and I don't know how hard it would be to implement.....but how about copying the main arena, but implementing an altitude cap of 10K? Same everything else, but call it the Main Redux? we have several arenas that aren't used very often, perhaps this would be an interesting option for those of us that would enjoy a lower altitude option of fighting? I don't really care about the other BS, just Cap the altitude with an 800MPH down draft, and clouds, or something of that nature, and let the people choose where they want to fight. No other explanation is necessary, no other discussion, it's a simple experiment. People that want to fly at high altitude and bnz can stay in the main, furballers can play in the low alt main. it will give people an option with hopefully little need to develop much in code.
Just a thought
ULDieter
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: The Fugitive on November 22, 2021, 07:48:57 PM
Wiley, I edited you comment to focus on one thing. And let me say that I don't want to appear to be talking down to you. I don't know you, but I believe this forum exists for the exchange of ideas. it's better when that happens courteously and without vitriol.
Having said that, I think there is room in just about any flight sim that I'm aware of for both types of players. I've been a part of dogfights where neither player had a clear advantage and one just runs out of ammo. They break off and rtb while posting 'bingo ammo' (or something similar) in the radio buffer. I tend to let them go in that situation, but I've seen people run them down, if they can, and kill them.
I've also maintained that flight sims, pick you platform, are great places to hunt and kill other people, but that there's no room for whining or complaining. So, if I'm trooping a field and someone from the 'enemy' decides to shoot down my C37 after I've dropped my troops, that's up to them. I just don't let the behavior of others dictate how I behave. That way lies madness.
Whenever I'm shot down, I always try to salute the person who got me. I will say that the options for doing that in AH leave me confused. I don't know whether to key the radio buffer to 'all' or to 'room.'
The ultimate truth is that 'a kill is a kill,' and points scored are points earned. I'm just not a points player. So, good luck flying and good hunting. And if you shoot me down and don't get a salute, I'm still working on it.
Hit the "/" key to open the radio (no need to tune a channel) type ".s xxxxx" without the quotes and were xxxxx is the player name you want to salute hit enter to send salute.
If someone sends you a salute "<Salute> Decoy" hit / then .rs and enter to return the salute.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: decoy on November 22, 2021, 08:33:13 PM
Hit the "/" key to open the radio (no need to tune a channel) type ".s xxxxx" without the quotes and were xxxxx is the player name you want to salute hit enter to send salute.
If someone sends you a salute "<Salute> Decoy" hit / then .rs and enter to return the salute.
There ya go. News I can use. Thanks, Fugitive.
Title: Re: Unsportsmanlike game play
Post by: diaster on December 21, 2021, 12:34:58 PM
I choose to identify unsportmanship as flying off the map, actually anything done to “game the game.” Bombing strats and when an nme dar appears, bailing. Realizing it’s a game and parameters are limited to some extent by coding, ie a map perimeter. I am quite sure htc didn’t intend for people to actually fly off the map to avoid confrontation. If one just played as if it were real, then all would be sporting. In real life would you bail out if a good aircraft, no; would you purposefully Ram another plane when avoiding is easy, no; Would you defend your team mate and pull a fighter off him, yes!
My point to this, until htc puts in a death ring around the map or an idle time out on the server you just have to use your muscle in your head. Take actions that deter what is going on to force the situation in your favor.
I wait at the strat for the buff to show. If there are high bnzers, I grab a squadie and come in higher and push them down to the friendly below, a 262 is great for this. I don’t don’t many kills doing this (teammates do) but I win the head game. If there is a spawn camper, I let them sit and go elsewhere. They get zero points, get bored and have little to show for their efforts and again win the head game. No score shows but the satisfaction of denying them what they want is a win! Final note, if everyone got together and actually played as a team, they would get scores of kills, win all the maps and be the top contenders in the game. Just ask the pickers that follow the “horde”