Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CptTrips on January 29, 2022, 01:50:35 AM
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Just after the Olympic opening ceremonies are over?
Sometime Feb 4-11?
Broad front to the Dnipier? Or down the Black Sea coast to Odessa? Or both?
I'm leaning to a mad dash along the coast.
They've been digging in on that eastern front. It's a lot of depth to penetrate. Once you start, you have to push all the way to the Dnipier.
Probably a lot more casualties that way. Both sides.
A lighting flanking maneuver along the coast. His navy can follow along with the spearhead close to the coast giving cover and support with it's firepower.
Closes all Ukraine's ports and access to the sea. Instantly shuts down Ukraine's imports/exports thus economy and establishes a land bridge to Crimea at the same time.
Given the overwhelming firepower with the fleet providing cover as well, it would be a quick victory, actually probably the least casualties, compared to slogging it out along a wide front.
Seems like a Judo'ey kinda thing Vlad would like.
(https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/ED-AY867_Stent0_M_20190806175441.jpg)
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Best for Ukraine just not to resist IMO..needless blood shed as victory is an impossibility for them
From what I understand you have as many Ukrainians siding with the Russians as they don't...not like they don't speak the language and weren't Russians before
Just hoping the US doesn't bow up and try to save the day at the last second for some humanitarian volation reason - that may or may not pan out as true - as has been used in the past...
Eagler
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This won't last long. :rolleyes:
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This won't last long. :rolleyes:
True and neither will they.
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Best for Ukraine just not to resist IMO..needless blood shed as victory is an impossibility for them
From what I understand you have as many Ukrainians siding with the Russians as they don't...not like they don't speak the language and weren't Russians before
Just hoping the US doesn't bow up and try to save the day at the last second for some humanitarian volation reason - that may or may not pan out as true - as has been used in the past...
Eagler
Older generations are Pro-Russian, younger generations want a free, EU, Ukraine. The world should support a free, European Ukraine. It is best for everyone.
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Just after the Olympic opening ceremonies are over?
Sometime Feb 4-11?
Broad front to the Dnipier? Or down the Black Sea coast to Odessa? Or both?
I'm leaning to a mad dash along the coast.
They've been digging in on that eastern front. It's a lot of depth to penetrate. Once you start, you have to push all the way to the Dnipier.
Probably a lot more casualties that way. Both sides.
A lighting flanking maneuver along the coast. His navy can follow along with the spearhead close to the coast giving cover and support with it's firepower.
Closes all Ukraine's ports and access to the sea. Instantly shuts down Ukraine's imports/exports thus economy and establishes a land bridge to Crimea at the same time.
Given the overwhelming firepower with the fleet providing cover as well, it would be a quick victory, actually probably the least casualties, compared to slogging it out along a wide front.
Seems like a Judo'ey kinda thing Vlad would like.
(https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/ED-AY867_Stent0_M_20190806175441.jpg)
How can you possibly believe that this post is NOT political?
(https://c.tenor.com/RFJ_Lz31fckAAAAj/shaking-my.gif)
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This won't last long. :rolleyes:
True, but my intent was really the discussion of the tactics, timing, and strategy.
Surely on a combat sim forums we can simply address the military aspects of a kinetic engagements without it immediately degrading in to a domestic partisan pissing contest.
I mean, we're adults aren't we?
Hmmmm yeah, this thread is probably doomed. :rolleyes:
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How can you possibly believe that this post is NOT political?
Well, I guess as political as discussing D-Day, the Battle of Britain, or Operation Barbarossa.
Perhaps I missed something.
Please quote where in my original post I referred to or eluded to a political party?
I'll wait while you try and come up with something.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/phY1SBXy4y4Io/200w.gif?cid=82a1493bxxoc84eo5ed7b9zn83ql0pxh5mdix3tcw2n6ftrq&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
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(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/b48ee152-17ac-4307-a94a-a83aea857eea/d8q19xe-5e46019f-c81c-409a-83dd-7c791046745d.gif?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2I0OGVlMTUyLTE3YWMtNDMwNy1hOTRhLWE4M2FlYTg1N2VlYVwvZDhxMTl4ZS01ZTQ2MDE5Zi1jODFjLTQwOWEtODNkZC03Yzc5MTA0Njc0NWQuZ2lmIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.oPz_eiRFvoaT_6fkYfH1AY2HDjmdpBctWci_vsG9RIQ)
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Please quote where in my original post I referred to or eluded to a political party?
You didn't have to.
Waging war is essentially politics by force and the discussions of the merits of waging war / responding to war are inherently political.
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You didn't have to.
Waging war is essentially politics by force and the discussions of the merits of waging war / responding to war are inherently political.
While the decision to wage war may be political in nature (only in that the people in power - who are, by and large, politicians - make that decision) the tactics and strategies are just that - tactics and strategies. Now if this discussion veered toward, for instance, the apparent support of Putin's invasion of the Ukraine by conservative right wing American politicians then I would say the line was crossed but, as yet, that doesn't appear to be the case. :lipsrsealed:
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You didn't have to.
Waging war is essentially politics by force and the discussions of the merits of waging war / responding to war are inherently political.
So there can be no discussion of WWII either? Is that the rule now? WWII was politics by force, right? :rolleyes:
But at least you admit that nowhere in my OP did I refer or elude to a political party.
I saw a football thread turn political. So I guess football is politics by sport. So no sports either I guess. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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So there can be no discussion of WWII either? Is that the rule now? WWII was politics by force, right? :rolleyes:
But at least you admit that nowhere in my OP did I refer or elude to a political party.
I saw a football thread turn political. So I guess football is politics by sport. So no sports either I guess. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
There is a difference between something that is inherently political, and the same old people turning any thread they participate in, political.
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There is a difference between something that is inherently political, and the same old people turning any thread they participate in, political.
So was the original post on this thread inherently political?
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WWII is history, this is todays politics.
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WWII is history, this is todays politics.
You can discuss past military strategies but not future military strategies?
So what is the number of months that has to pass before you can discuss a military operation?
1 month? 6 months?
Is that a new rule or are you just making them up as you flap your gums?
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Personally I couldnt care less what some of you clowns "chat" about on here. Your last few post here have been nothing but an attempt to twist things so that you seem right. Its obvious that you are trying to push a political agender here. Should Hitech decide to do his once a month fly-by here on the boards he will decide weather it is political or not, not you or I.
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Today, just about every particle of life involves politics.
Any market
Prices of anything
Any news or world event
Anything involving health
History
Anything about education
Anything about society
Most new TV shows and movies
Demographics
The weather
We can talk about how the flaps of an F4U work, how you do or don't like some radar setting in the game, or who won a sporting event, I guess.
But if the board were really restricted to stuff like that -- if you couldn't talk to your AH pals about life in general -- this board would be a ghost town.
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Personally I couldnt care less what some of you clowns "chat" about on here.
Well, you apparently do, genius. Back-paddling now?
First you claim my original post was political, yet could point to no mention or allusion to any political party.
Then you say it's within the forum rules to discuss past military operation, but not future ones. However, you can offer no guidance on how long ago an operation has to have occurred before it is allowed. Perhaps we should just ask your majesty in every case if you will allow it?
You say I am trying to push a political agenda. What political agenda have I espoused in this thread, and quote it please?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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WWII is history, this is todays politics.
Be it history or current events, the topic isn't political until it actually has political motive in it's own right.
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Firstly this isn't politics, or at least it wasn't, until some chumps joined and mentioned politics. It was the replies that twisted it politically. I don't know what leaning cptrips has and I'm probably different, but guys, chill out.
Seconding in response to Eagler, that's what us Brits could have said in the begining of the second world war and especially in the Battle of Britain. But why bow and scrape to a corrupt regime? Fight them to the death!
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, that's what us Brits could have said in the begining of the second world war and especially in the Battle of Britain. But why bow and scrape to a corrupt regime? Fight them to the death!
History has proven, if you don't now, you will have to later.
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I think the wildcard re Ukraine is the nutcase in charge of Belarus.
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Ukraine is all about a warmwater port for Russia, and the territory needed to use it.
Remember when the world was worried about Soviet Nukes in Ukraine. I’d forgotten too until being reminded. The UK, US, and Russia promised to defend Ukraine boarders forever if allowed to go into the country and dismantle and remove them. Turns out it was never an actual treaty binding on anyone.
Opps!
Best case, the eastern quarter of Ukraine is deeded to Russia, Ukraine keeps the rest, expands their port at Odesa, and immediately joins NATO to prevent further loss. Which is why Russia is already raising a stink over NATO expansion now.
Of course, that's not how it's shaping up now.
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Georgia wanted badly to join NATO too, right before they started a war with Russia. The Ukrainian gubmit is just as unstable and dilapidated as Georgia’s. Trying to pinch crimea from Russia is a sure fire way to start a war. This is just NATO antagonism in Russia’s front yard, trying to stir up crap to justify NATO’s existence 30 years after the end of the Warsaw Pact.
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Didn’t Putin already take the parts if the county that were pro-Russian leaving the portions that were not for him, which he’s now pressuring?
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Ukraine is all about a warmwater port for Russia, and the territory needed to use it.
Remember when the world was worried about Soviet Nukes in Ukraine. I’d forgotten too until being reminded. The UK, US, and Russia promised to defend Ukraine boarders forever if allowed to go into the country and dismantle and remove them. Turns out it was never an actual treaty binding on anyone.
Opps!
Best case, the eastern quarter of Ukraine is deeded to Russia, Ukraine keeps the rest, expands their port at Odesa, and immediately joins NATO to prevent further loss. Which is why Russia is already raising a stink over NATO expansion now.
Of course, that's not how it's shaping up now.
Russia got their warm water port when they annexed Crimea.
The rest of your post brings to mind Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's September 30, 1938 announcement that he had achieved "peace in our time". Just substitute Ukraine for the Sudetenland.
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Russia got their warm water port when they annexed Crimea.
The rest of your post brings to mind Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's September 30, 1938 announcement that he had achieved "peace in our time". Just substitute Ukraine for the Sudetenland.
Never quite figured out who gave Neville Chamberlain the authority to give away a portion of another country to another country? Hitler laughed.
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There's a nice revionist history of Chamberlain on Netflix right now, Munich: The Edge of War. There's some little blurb in the rolling credits to the effect that Chamberlain only did the Munich deal with Adolph because Chamberlain saw the war as inevitable and was buying time for Britain to re-arm or some such nonsense.
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Russia got their warm water port when they annexed Crimea.
The rest of your post brings to mind Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's September 30, 1938 announcement that he had achieved "peace in our time". Just substitute Ukraine for the Sudetenland.
Exactly... :salute
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Not worried about Ukraine's borders till ours is secure.
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Russia got their warm water port when they annexed Crimea.
The rest of your post brings to mind Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's September 30, 1938 announcement that he had achieved "peace in our time". Just substitute Ukraine for the Sudetenland.
I have NO faith in diplomacy in this regard. As I stated, best case, "join NATO", to insure the deal and draw our own red line in the sand.
I actually don't see Ukraine as a sovereign country by summer, or shortly thereafter. As for Crimea, sure, but the road around to get there isn't exactly direct, and is that bridge a rail or a road bridge? I believe it's good for trucks only. So not so good for Putin or Russia.
Plus, back to my OP, if Ukraine could manage to join NATO, at some point they will want to take Crimea and the rest of the country back. Putin knows this and probably wouldn't trust NATO to honor the deal forever.
I would like to be right about the best case and wrong about the outcome I expect.
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Not worried about Ukraine's borders till ours is secure.
Exactly. Isn't it flipping amazing that we can send troops to Ukraine but God forbid we send troops to the US border to protect our country from an invasion?
Funny, between 2016 and 2021 Taiwan nore Ukraine were ever under direct threat. I wonder why that is? Oh and we had treaties signed in the middle east. Oh and we still had Afghanistan. Still trying to figure out conservatives are the problem when Ukraine and Taiwan are both one invasion away from conquer. Which we all know is more than likely going happen because their ain't a damn thing NATO gonna do about it. Infact they want it to happen. The UN and the Olympics don't even recognize Taiwan. What does that say? The UN is China's little beeyotch. When China and Russia invade Ukraine and Taiwan at the same time. The UN Nato aren't going to do watermelon because they have already been conquered by the soviets/NWO.
Oh. And how much more of our tax dollars do we need to send Ukraine in "AID" before they can handle themselves? I'd much rather tax dollars support US projects. we sure could use it, not wars for other countries.
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Welp. There you are. The thread's gone totally batshirt political crazy and it wasn't CptTrips' doing, at all. What a ... thing. :O
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It's a family fight.. Dates back 1000s of years.. We, the USA, have no place in it..
People have been bleeding and dying for that land since the Kievan Rus..
Kiev was the capital of the Rus, when Moscow was just a small collection of huts..
It's NOT our business, and we shouldn't allow NATO nations to drag us into it!
IMO, NATO itself, has become an outdated liability! Corrupt beyond belief!
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Not worried about Ukraine's borders till ours is secure.
like in the movie sicario "if we can make 20 percent of the population to stop snoring this crap"
semp
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Welp. There you are. The thread's gone totally batshirt political crazy and it wasn't CptTrips' doing, at all. What a ... thing. :O
You were the first one to make a batshirt crazy political claim bud.
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What's NATO really but the promise of the United States to bring its military might to the conflict..
Do you think any country would do anything about Ukraine or Taiwan if the US stays out of it?
Eagler
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You were the first one to make a batshirt crazy political claim bud.
Um, no ... bud. I gave an example of what one would be. You took an opportunity and ran all fired crazy with it. As usual.
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What's NATO really but the promise of the United States to bring its military might to the conflict..
Do you think any country would do anything about Ukraine or Taiwan if the US stays out of it?
Eagler
Maybe study some World War 2 history to see if you want to stand by that statement.
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Um, no ... bud. I gave an example of what one would be. You took an opportunity and ran all fired crazy with it. As usual.
What's crazy about it? The Olympics are being held in one of the most corrupt anti worker anti human rights countries on the planet, after a virus was negligently released on the world killing millions. Why is the UN allowing this? You really think the UN is going to stop Russia and China at the same time while building up their economies with oil trade, economic trade, and events like the Olympics. Puhlease. Atleast Putin seems wise to the NWO and it's agenda and I honestly don't blame him for not wanting his country to be subjugated by them.
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What part of 'turning a thread into a political soapbox is frowned upon by management' confuses you? You've been around long enough to know better.
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What part of 'turning a thread into a political soapbox is frowned upon by management' confuses you? You've been around long enough to know better.
Again, your first comment contradicts this statement.
I see nothing political in my comments. Just the truth about reality and what's going to happen.
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You're still lost.
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The topic at hand isn't the why or why not.
Or the should or should not.
The topic at hand is: when, how, where.
[Edit] I guess also "if" is part of this topic, but honestly I'm not sure if that's still an open question at this point. But maybe I'm wrong. I put "if" at 70% probability at this point.
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Again, your first comment contradicts this statement.
I see nothing political in my comments. Just the truth about reality and what's going to happen.
The TRUTH? Seriously?
You might want to re-assess you position in determining what is and what is not the truth.
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What's crazy about it? The Olympics are being held in one of the most corrupt anti worker anti human rights countries on the planet, after a virus was negligently released on the world killing millions. Why is the UN allowing this? You really think the UN is going to stop Russia and China at the same time while building up their economies with oil trade, economic trade, and events like the Olympics. Puhlease. Atleast Putin seems wise to the NWO and it's agenda and I honestly don't blame him for not wanting his country to be subjugated by them.
un has no control over the Olympics. and countries lose money hosting the Olympics.
semp
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Until Russia pumps out the propaganda at home there wont be any invasion.
Has anyone thought of asking Russia to join NATO, I suspect it's what Russia actually wants? :headscratch: :old: :D
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While the decision to wage war may be political in nature (only in that the people in power - who are, by and large, politicians - make that decision) the tactics and strategies are just that - tactics and strategies. Now if this discussion veered toward, for instance, the apparent support of Putin's invasion of the Ukraine by conservative right wing American politicians then I would say the line was crossed but, as yet, that doesn't appear to be the case. :lipsrsealed:
:headscratch:
They are?
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:headscratch:
They are?
you haven't read zorro news? they supported Russia
semp
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you haven't read zorro news? they supported Russia
semp
I don’t know what zorro news is and neither does Google, unless you’re asking me to look at news about Zorro the TV/movie character.
Who is the “they” supporting Russia?
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Saw yesterday that Putins mother was from Ukraine and the birth place of the USSR is considered to be Ukraine and Putin has written papers about the reunification...
So why didn't all the ex soviet block countries join nato as soon as they were separated from the ussr?
Is it a pay to play? Or maybe they didn't want the seperation?
Eagler
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I don’t know what zorro news is and neither does Google, unless you’re asking me to look at news about Zorro the TV/movie character.
Who is the “they” supporting Russia?
fox.
semp
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How can you possibly believe that this post is NOT political?
(https://c.tenor.com/RFJ_Lz31fckAAAAj/shaking-my.gif)
Looks military in nature to me. No geo-political ramifications in the post, but a discussions of options. Had the OP discussed political leadership or expected outcomes/goals, I might differ in my opinion.
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It appears this is actually all smoke and mirrors and the US MSM propaganda press is actually the ones stoking the tension. Typical. Even the Ukraine PM had to come out and shove US MSM off.
I think they are trying to take attention off US struggles and point the finger at something else to try to make someone appear strong by threatening to send troops. Even though we all know that's a joke.
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It appears this is actually all smoke and mirrors and the US MSM propaganda press is actually the ones stoking the tension.
So you put the "if" at less than 50% chance?
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So you put the "if" at less than 50% chance?
For now, yes. Apparently there was some kind of meeting in France last week where there were negotiations with Russia and Ukraine, without American Press, about a cease fire or something like that. Don't know all of the details. Unless some kind of false flag happens, I don't see anything going down as of now.
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Heard Ukraine was telling the US to shut up as our ramblings about their situation is harming their economy
Eagler
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Heard Ukraine was telling the US to shut up as our ramblings about their situation is harming their economy
Eagler
you mean the 130k Russian troops are a boom to the economy?
semp
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you mean the 130k Russian troops are a boom to the economy?
semp
No... lol. It causes shortages when everyone runs to the store to buy as much food as possible along with other supplies when they think war or disaster is coming.
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No... lol. It causes shortages when everyone runs to the store to buy as much food as possible along with other supplies when they think war or disaster is coming.
so Ukrainians aren't worried about the 130k troops at their border. just because the angle said it and she had a history of misleading, exaggerated and false claims doesn't make it the usa fault.
pretty sure Ukraine has a newspaper or two, heck they might even have local tv there. haven't researched that but it sounds right to me.
I'll reply to your false flag statement as soon as I stop laughing. maybe q can go there and give us a report.
semp
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fox.
semp
Fox News aren’t politicians.
I asked which right wing politicians are supporting Putin invading Russia as stated by Arlo here: ‘…the apparent support of Putin's invasion of the Ukraine by conservative right wing American politicians…’
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So what originally started out as a discussion of possible invasion fronts and options the Russians could take in invading Ukraine, turned into a political fluster cuck. :rolleyes:
Honestly, it was a legitimate discussion to begin with. What are the various factors involved in a possible invasion? What are the most likely and least likely invasion points? Road, rail, river, etc. (obviously I've not looked at the map). What are possible choke points that could be utilized by Ukraine to stall/buy time? Because let's face it, there is absolutely no way in hell Ukraine will withstand the Russian military might for long. The absolute best they could do is delay long enough in the hopes that other nations will intervene before Russia capitulates them. Obviously it'll depend on how much of that might Russia throws at it, but unlike Afghanistan, Ukraine is practically "front lawn". So even if they "piece meal" the invasion, they have an overall higher chance of succeeding simply due to proximity.
Of the various nations in the "area", who's likely to intervene? What are the chances their equipment will have any meaningful impact against Russia's? Russia immediately has a numbers advantage out of the gate, and they could play the attrition game. Though that is definitely a "no-go" for Russia if they can avoid it, for obvious reasons. The longer it takes, the more likely other nations will intervene in some form. Not to mention the logistical nightmare that's to result from the whole thing.
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Exactly. Isn't it flipping amazing that we can send troops to Ukraine but God forbid we send troops to the US border to protect our country from an invasion?
My thoughts D... but it seems Biden is not worried about the U.S. borders :salute
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Is Russia massing troops there? :O
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Well, Vlad hasn't called and asked for my consultation yet. But this is what I'd tell him:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/x30l79ewxfmgef9/Ukraine1.png?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/bo24o1tn85ihbgj/Ukraine2.png?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/j71ejyu990haokx/Ukraine3.png?raw=1)
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Seems logical.
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When are the power grids neutralized by cyber attacks?
That front can spread quickly outside of the original conflict
Eagler
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When are the power grids neutralized by cyber attacks?
I would expect it as soon as we apply sanctions.
(BTW, guessing what he might do isn't the same as rooting for it.)
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I don't really care if the Russians invade Ukraine or not..
Might cause some delayed bribe payments for Brandon and family..
But, militarily speaking.. It would be simple enough.. Quick advance on the approximate line,
Kharkov - Zaparozhia - Nikilayev on the Black Sea, using the Dnieper river as a barrier on the
right flank.. Perfect tank country, that hasn't changed since 1941..
They will be advancing thru basically friendly territory, lots of the locals would rather stay with Russia, than be subjects of an EU puppet state.. For the Rus, that would secure the Perikop isthmus, and access to the Crimea for Russia.. Regain control of the Infrastructure that they built in the Don bend!
In Chechnya the Russians crushed a CIA backed Mercenary army, then again in Syria..
Now in Ukraine, they'll do it again..
I hope not, but if they do, it will be because of outsiders manipulating the Puppet Ukrainian government! CIA lackeys have been begging for a war, to cover their flaming corruption back here in the USA.. WAR is always the best distraction!
And if it is so important for some to secure the Ukraine border, than they should call for volunteers.. All those brave men should step right up!
So, who wants to go???
Just think, Colonel Vindman could be your CO! :rofl
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Might cause some delayed bribe payments for Brandon and family..
Just think, Colonel Vindman could be your CO!
Political made up opportunity inserted in this thread that has taken a southern turn thanks to you and others.
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Isn't it remarkable how world tensions can be raised by one man who's neither accountable to the people of his country nor to a democratically elected Government. And in that same context, how peaceful and unremarkable the borders are between constitutional republics are throughout the rest of the world.
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Political made up opportunity inserted in this thread that has taken a southern turn thanks to you and others.
Thanks for trying Arlo but I have found a lot of peace in not trying to answer the 17th kwestion of their exams.
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I think a few Battalions of LGBTQ Troops, twerkin in their freshly
issued Red Pumps, would scare those Rooskies back to the Volga river! :banana:
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I think a few Battalions of LGBTQ Troops, twerkin in their freshly
issued Red Pumps, would scare those Rooskies back to the Volga river! :banana:
Kinda limited selection of your prejudices isn't it. I am sure you could expand on your list with the inclusion of many other unAmericans; especially with the help of Droolius Geezer.
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My thoughts D... but it seems Biden is not worried about the U.S. borders :salute
don't let that annoying thing called the constitution get on the way.
semp
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I think a few Battalions of LGBTQ Troops, twerkin in their freshly
issued Red Pumps, would scare those Rooskies back to the Volga river! :banana:
the father of the army, an openly gay man Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben.
semp
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Cap, your maps forgets about the troops a hundred miles north of Kyiv in Belarus. Fastest route to regime change.
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Cap, your maps forgets about the troops a hundred miles north of Kyiv in Belarus. Fastest route to regime change.
No. I don't think they want to do that. That would be much bloodier. An enemy is always going to fight to the last to protect their capital. I think for now they are just pinning enemy troops up there. And they are digging in expecting a frontal attack, if the rooskies side slip them they won't be mobile enough in their burrows to catch them..
The way I was proposing was to achieve the strategic goal (effective control of Ukraine) with minimal deaths. A quick a fait accompli with minimal deaths will weaken US calls for sanctions compared to a bloodbath meat-grinder of grinding straight at the capital.
This would be more like Vlad to flip around and get them in a chock-hold like a judo maneuverer, rather than simply pummeling them to death with his fists.
But who knows.
I'm more interested first in your "if" estimate percentage wise?
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don't let that annoying thing called the constitution get on the way.
semp
Please explain how the US Constitution gets on [sic] the way of sending military and or law enforcement to prevent unlawful entry into the USA.
By the way, when referring to the US Constitution (document) it should always be capitalized. Something that should NOT EVER be lost on you since you pledged an oath to uphold it at all times, even give your life for it!
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the father of the army, an openly gay man Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben.
:rofl I really don't think the Russian Troops or Leadership, even care about that..
But what they, and the rest of the world, DO notice? Is the DOD offering sex changes as enlistment incentives, the rising rates of health issues including pericarditis among our troops, (from the clot shot) and the total willingness of our leadership to abandon our longtime allies, to the mercy of their blood enemies.. And the fact that our Military Fluster Clock can't seem to stop dropping our newest stealth combat jets in the Ocean, within easy reach of our adversaries..
Believe me, they DEFINITELY notice those things!
And as far as attacking from the north in Belarus? The Pripyat marshes are still there, with only 2 major routes running through it, East to West.. Look at a map, it pretty much spans the whole border between Belarus and Ukraine.. It is just as formidable a barrier to Armored forces now, as it was in 1941..
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I see the power grid going down in the early moments of any military actions..it's already been done
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_power_grid_hack
Fastest way to submission is not freezing to death
Eagler
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As this is based off CIA info it's probably the way the invasion will not go...
https://youtu.be/UNIU6TRsRzk
Eagler
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Although unawares of Russian troop dispositions in Belarus if I were the Russians I would start with a diversionary attack through the Pripyat to draw in Ukrainian mobile reserves. My main attack would embark from western Belarus collapse the Ukrainian west flank then drive on Kiev from the west. Once a break through has been exploited I would theN force a bridge head across the Dneiper around Kherson and use the southern forces to complete the encirclement
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Please explain how the US Constitution gets on [sic] the way of sending military and or law enforcement to prevent unlawful entry into the USA.
By the way, when referring to the US Constitution (document) it should always be capitalized. Something that should NOT EVER be lost on you since you pledged an oath to uphold it at all times, even give your life for it!
us military is forbidden to enforce domestic law. that's common knowledge. few exceptions like during riots or such things.
just because some call it an invasion doesn't make it one. sure they shouldn't come across illegally but that's a different thing.
that's why we have border patrol or whatever they call it now. but that's another story. right now the national guard, well a few, have been sent to the border to stand around, 2 suicides so far. just political thing to show off , nothing else.
semp
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us military is forbidden to enforce domestic law. that's common knowledge. few exceptions like during riots or such things.
just because some call it an invasion doesn't make it one. sure they shouldn't come across illegally but that's a different thing.
that's why we have border patrol or whatever they call it now. but that's another story. right now the national guard, well a few, have been sent to the border to stand around, 2 suicides so far. just political thing to show off , nothing else.
semp
Can you find the US law? You see it's not the constitution that prohibits it. It's the "US law" the establishment created so that they could use your excuse of not allowing troops to the border. Which I think is a total scam and obviously the establishment wants the cartel to drug our children because it makes them dependents and kills their drive for success, along with puts them in prison and ruins their lives. The CIA doesn't care because it's all a pay off game. I call it an act of war against America's children and should be treated as such by the US military. If you think it's okay to send troops to protect some other country from war, but not our own border from an act of war. Than it just shows that the establishment has made this country vulnerable by not allowing the military to protect it. Which is obviously by design.
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Can you find the US law? You see it's not the constitution that prohibits it. It's the "US law" the establishment created so that they could use your excuse of not allowing troops to the border. Which I think is a total scam and obviously the establishment wants the cartel to drug our children because it makes them dependents and kills their drive for success, along with puts them in prison and ruins their lives. The CIA doesn't care because it's all a pay off game. I call it an act of war against America's children and should be treated as such by the US military. If you think it's okay to send troops to protect some other country from war, but not our own border from an act of war. Than it just shows that the establishment has made this country vulnerable by not allowing the military to protect it. Which is obviously by design.
Its called the "Posse Comitatus Act". The "Scam" has been around since the late 1870s, enacted after the civil war because "Union" military occupation of the South got out of hand, leading to the abuse of citizens of the United States. There has been numerous examples of the military being deployed to quell domestic squabbles. Some justified and some not.
Hence, Posse Comitatus requires an act of congress to send the military, unless somebody in the Fed Gov deems there is an insurrection, in which case the President can act.
But - I hear ya. . . . Why have any semblance of "Checks & Balances"?. . . . .lol After all, History has shown that the Government, its Citizens, and or the Military "ALWAYS" make the right decisions. . . . .lol
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violator read article 6 of the constitution. that should explain it all.
semp
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Thread is about Ukraine not illegal immigrants...please stay on topic
I know it's hard to do.....
Eagler
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Is Russia massing troops there? :O
No Arlo but apparently Russians are also crossing illegally... so lets see,
should we wait for their numbers to increase?
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No Arlo but apparently Russians are also crossing illegally... so lets see,
should we wait for their numbers to increase?
Which border are you talking about? Are you trying to steer the thread off topic?
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violator read article 6 of the constitution. that should explain it all.
semp
How so?
Article Six of the United States Constitution:
All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
:headscratch:
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Which border are you talking about? Are you trying to steer the thread off topic?
Now Arlo, how can you kwestion this? Have you forgotten all the warnings to "17" from Air Farce One?
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American worry less about a 30 trillion nat' debt, than corrupt communist bull$^!#. Maybe another Ukraine genocide from mother russ'
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American worry less about a 30 trillion nat' debt, than corrupt communist bull$^!#. Maybe another Ukraine genocide from mother russ'
The USA National Debt per capita is slightly more than $60,000. The UK is $127,000... France- $87,000.... Switzerland- $213,000.... Germany- $94,000.
There are many more countries far deeper in borrowed bucks than the USA. Little need to panic yet.
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Which border are you talking about? Are you trying to steer the thread off topic?
No Arlo.. not switching topics... just making an analogy... and yes I forgot to mention
its the U.S. Southern border
:salute
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No Arlo.. not switching topics... just making an analogy... and yes I forgot to mention
its the U.S. Southern border
:salute
Poor analogy ... and you're taking opportunity to parade your politics in an AH thread. But the thread is on its last legs I reckon, anyhoo. Take it by the reins and finish running it into the ground.
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No. I don't think they want to do that. That would be much bloodier. An enemy is always going to fight to the last to protect their capital. I think for now they are just pinning enemy troops up there. And they are digging in expecting a frontal attack, if the rooskies side slip them they won't be mobile enough in their burrows to catch them..
The way I was proposing was to achieve the strategic goal (effective control of Ukraine) with minimal deaths. A quick a fait accompli with minimal deaths will weaken US calls for sanctions compared to a bloodbath meat-grinder of grinding straight at the capital.
This would be more like Vlad to flip around and get them in a chock-hold like a judo maneuverer, rather than simply pummeling them to death with his fists.
But who knows.
I'm more interested first in your "if" estimate percentage wise?
I'm curious as to what is fielded by each army group in terms of equipment. I'm not inclined be believe that they are all equipped with the "best of the best", but I'm certain they do have quite a bit of the "top tier" equipment at their disposal. I'd be willing to guess that almost all of the equipment will be "top tier", seeing as those troops are along the western boarder. Example: It is a reasonable guess that at least 90% of their T-80's and T-90's will be the Western side of Russia as a whole.
If Russia is serious enough, they might pull stuff from other groups that are unlikely to be participating, like units from their Eastern District. I doubt this will be the case, as they have a huge number of equipment and men on reserve. They'll want to keep their Eastern units intact, as a "show of force" to the US, Japan and even China, though to the world as a whole. If anything they might bolster their Eastern units a little. Not so much as to be presumed a threatening gesture, but enough to say, "Nothing to see here, move along.". It's not like the lack the reserves to do it. Also, you may wonder why I included China; reason is simple, they wouldn't want to appear weak in any way to their neighbor. Pulling anything from their Eastern units will likely be presumed as "Russia is weak" in China's eyes.
I agree, Russia will use a blitzkrieg to avoid any prolong fighting. The question is, for example, will they lead with their T-90's or will they lead with their older tanks like the T-72? While you'd think the T-90 is an obvious choice, they are more expensive and they have far fewer of them as opposed to the T-72's. But leading with older, more "well known" tanks will have obvious drawbacks as well. Again, it'll depend on how serious Russia is if they go through with it. Dead serious, and it's a very good bet that all of lead units will be equipped with the "best of the best".
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The USA National Debt per capita is slightly more than $60,000. The UK is $127,000... France- $87,000.... Switzerland- $213,000.... Germany- $94,000.
There are many more countries far deeper in borrowed bucks than the USA. Little need to panic yet.
US National Debt is right now $30 trillion. Population is 330 million. National Debt per capita is $90k.
Those numbers depend a lot from where you are getting data, how specifically they calculate "national debt" (as there are variations), and how current that data is.
To make the comparison all the same and about as current as one can get, I used https://data.oecd.org/ and looked at "government debt" per capita (similar calculation to national debt).
Government debt per capita:
US, $100k
Switzerland, $31k
UK, $69k
And so on.
However, debt per capita is not all that meaningful. If you have debt of $500k as a person, but your income is $100k/year, it is way different than having that debt and an income of $30k/year.
That's why folks generally look at debt/GDP as being more meaningful.
On debt/GDP, also from https://data.oecd.org/
US, 161%
Switzerland, 44%
UK, 149%
and so on
The US has *very* high levels of debt. The fact that many other countries do as well doesn't mean there is nothing to worry about. It means there is more to worry about.
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If Russia is serious enough, they might pull stuff from other groups that are unlikely to be participating, like units from their Eastern District. I doubt this will be the case, as they have a huge number of equipment and men on reserve.
I thought the units currently exercising in Belarus were from the east?
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I agree, Russia will use a blitzkrieg to avoid any prolong fighting. The question is, for example, will they lead with their T-90's or will they lead with their older tanks like the T-72? While you'd think the T-90 is an obvious choice, they are more expensive and they have far fewer of them as opposed to the T-72's. But leading with older, more "well known" tanks will have obvious drawbacks as well. Again, it'll depend on how serious Russia is if they go through with it. Dead serious, and it's a very good bet that all of lead units will be equipped with the "best of the best".
I would image that the tip of the spear will always be the best of the best.
The units that back-fill and dig in to hold might be second tier, but they will then have prepared defense in depth to make up the difference with some Best-of-Best as a ready-reserve not too far away but not on the line.
But Blitzkrieg is all about speed and momentum and you don't want to risk that by putting Moe, Larry, and Curly upfront where they can gum stuff up.
$0.02.
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I would image that the tip of the spear will always be the best of the best.
The units that back-fill and dig in to hold might be second tier, but they will then have prepared defense in depth to make up the difference with some Best-of-Best as a ready-reserve not too far away but not on the line.
But Blitzkrieg is all about speed and momentum and you don't want to risk that by putting Moe, Larry, and Curly upfront where they can gum stuff up.
$0.02.
I'll have to correct myself:
Russia could easily underestimate Ukrainian forces, and in a way I'd expect that. After all when you compare both sides, Russia has a very clear advantage over them. The thing is, I expect them to set aside "top tier" assets just in-case other nations get involved, and not so much as reserves for the invasion. To purely use their best would leave a vulnerability should others get involved; don't put all your eggs in one basket, if you will. It's a decent bet that the nations likely to get involved will have better trained troops and equipment vs the Ukrainians. I very much doubt they are dealing with Soviet style troops and that current Russia has better trained troops. Might not be much better, but it would be foolish to think they are the same overall.
I'd think the Ukrainians would prioritize "high value" targets. T-90's would be at the top of the list, if you will. It'll come down to how well trained Ukraine troops are in recognizing and eliminating these high value targets, which I'm inclined to believe Ukraine are more "rag-tag" though not to be underestimated. While T-72's are older, there are a lot of them and it's a reasonable bet they are very much "up-to-par" in training with units using the best stuff. So I'm not inclined to believe they'll be a hindrance in a blitzkrieg. Hell, it's plausible that Russia might see this as a "training opportunity", though unlikely.
Air is going to be a big factor here though, and it's reasonable to think Ukraine will not be able to deal with it. I'd harbor a guess that Russia will use special forces to neutralize Ukrainian air power in combination of an air attack, though Russia could muscle through if they wanted too.
Then there is the Navy. It's not unlikely that a few submarines will be involved, utilizing cruise missile strikes. What could Ukraine possibly use against them? Because I don't think Russia will not deploy a task force of surface ships, if one isn't active already. Though they might not utilize a surface fleet at all, seeing as it could be perceived as a threat to the bordering nations for the Black Sea. So maybe they'll avoid any the use of any Naval assets unless absolutely necessary. :headscratch:
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I very much doubt they are dealing with Soviet style troops and that current Russia has better trained troops. Might not be much better, but it would be foolish to think they are the same overall.
I image you are dealing with a higher quality of troops now. Certainly I expect their command and control to be better. I expect the current command structures are modernized and better able to respond to fast moving conditions and operating with more independence than old Soviet versions.
As far as the Naval risk? <Shrug> They would be operating a stones throw away from the Russian's main warm-water base on the Crimea. I doubt that would be seen as a shocking presence. It's not like they were showing up in the Gulf of Mexico. ;)
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Poor analogy ... and you're taking opportunity to parade your politics in an AH thread. But the thread is on its last legs I reckon, anyhoo. Take it by the reins and finish running it into the ground.
Actually Arlo, I am not trying to abscond with this thread... what I am trying to say is the U.S. should not send troops in response
to Russia's build up at the Ukrainian border...
That is Europe's job...our obligation is to NATO... if Russia invades a NATO country then we are obligated by treaty to join in...
My analogy is/was just as Russia INVADED Crimea, Russians, Ukrainians, Middle Easterners, etc. are crossing our borders illegally
and possibly building up to destroy the U.S... in my opinion, call me paranoid but that is my thinking and, if I am correct,
those who don't wake up and recognize this will regret their opinions in the not too distant future
:salute
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Actually Arlo, I am not trying to abscond with this thread... what I am trying to say is the U.S. should not send troops in response
to Russia's build up at the Ukrainian border...
:salute
I found this supposed opinion poll alleged to be historical.
https://exhibitions.ushmm.org/americans-and-the-holocaust/us-public-opinion-world-war-II-1939-1941
Seems had Japan not attacked Pearl Harbor, all of western Europe would likely being still speaking German.
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Poor analogy ... and you're taking opportunity to parade your politics in an AH thread. But the thread is on its last legs I reckon, anyhoo. Take it by the reins and finish running it into the ground.
Isn’t your signature about Teddy Roosevelt that appears in EVERY one of your posts political?
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Isn’t your signature about Teddy Roosevelt that appears in EVERY one of your posts political?
Ah. My sig, as factual as it is, must somehow be a trigger. I'll change it to spare feelings. :cool:
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Ah. My sig, as factual as it is, must somehow be a trigger. I'll change it to spare feelings. :cool:
Nice try :rofl
I don’t care what your signature says. Just pointing out that you were chastising Ramesis for trying to ‘parade his politics’ and yet you had a political statement in your signature. Pot kettle…
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My super leftest buddy sent this to me.
Did I call it or did I call it. But apparently it has been "exposed" now and of course its Russia...riiiiiiiight
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/sjql6e/us_says_new_intel_shows_russia_plotting_false/
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My super leftest buddy sent this to me.
Did I call it or did I call it. But apparently it has been "exposed" now and of course its Russia...riiiiiiiight
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/sjql6e/us_says_new_intel_shows_russia_plotting_false/
Not news. It's not only been suspected but talked about openly for some time now.
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Might be a race to a false flag event depending on the true reason for the build up
Sure wish I was as naive as I used to be...
Eagler
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTOtUoVWsAAdTlK.jpg)
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Looks like a beautiful place
https://youtu.be/E-1t2DLmZJg
Eagler
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Might be a race to a false flag event depending on the true reason for the build up
Sure wish I was as naive as I used to be...
Eagler
we all like to think we are not naive. false flag is just what they call it now adays. heck we've done it plenty of times. look for an excuse, any excuse to do what we wanted. ever looked into why pearl harbor happened? the japanese needed oil from dutch indies and the Philippines where right in between. we studied that in 8th grade back in the 70's.
semp
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False flag, meaning an artificially created pretext for a predetermined action, (usually war).. Like the Germans at the Gliewitz radio station.. Japanese blowing up their own Manchurian Railway, and the incident at the Marco Polo bridge.. The Italians did something in Ethiopia too..
Yes, we in the US have a history of using it as well! Internationally, and on our own people!
CIA/FBI are experts at False Flags, and Blackmail.. Looking these days like they took lessons from the SD and Gestapo.. But people are much more AWARE now, than they used to be! Far less Jingoistic band wagon jumping.. People look for ulterior motives, are much harder to manipulate, Thank God!
The US embargo of Oil, Avgas, and Scrap Iron, to the Japanese, was not a "False Flag Operation".. Japan was using these materials we sent them to wage conquest upon the Chinese.. Their openly stated battle creed, was the "Three All's", Loot All, Burn All, Kill All.. Without the imports of US Oil Avgas and Scrap Iron, their war machine couldn't continue.. So we embargoed them, Rightfully so!
All they had to do, was STOP.. We didn't even demand they leave their occupied areas!
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Much harder these days I would think...
Why would Russia bother with trying to convince its populous that has zero control over Putin who doesn't fear political retribution...obviously no one outside of Russia would believe it maybe except China who will vote with Russia...
Eagler
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The US embargo of Oil, Avgas, and Scrap Iron, to the Japanese, was not a "False Flag Operation".. Japan was using these materials we sent them to wage conquest upon the Chinese.. Their openly stated battle creed, was the "Three All's", Loot All, Burn All, Kill All.. Without the imports of US Oil Avgas and Scrap Iron, their war machine couldn't continue.. So we embargoed them, Rightfully so!
All they had to do, was STOP.. We didn't even demand they leave their occupied areas!
Actually we did, and rightfully so. Your very much right on the refined oil products and the scrap metals. These were more important to them then the oil itself. America wasn't much interested in the conflict until the Japanese made a series of long term mistakes as their military became more and more an out of control maker of foreign policy.
The first being the Marco Polo incident, their false flag scam that turned a low intensity conflict into an all out war with the Chinese national's. They then bombed the gunboat Panay which further inflamed tensions. Even still trade went on and America did little to punish the Japanese from 1937 to 1940 as we accepted an apology and indemnity for the Panay incident.
In '40 and '41 Asia blew up with the Japanese govt. ,forced by an out of control military, created the Asian economic co-prosperity sphere which was simply cover for a war of conquest and for the theft of territory and resources either by conquest or coercion. They signed the Tripartite pact, joining the Fascist states of Germany and Italy and they signed a pact of neutrality with Stalin, securing their northern border from the Soviet threat. The inhumane cruelty of their war with China became worse and worse, so much so even the west couldn't ignore it any longer.
But the final straw was the Japanese grabbing French Indochina after signing an agreement with the Vichy French collaborators and gave the Japanese access to many important resources as well as strategically important bases flanking our own forward Asian forces.
Even still after all this, and after we froze their accounts and embargoed everything from them, we came very close to settling things but the thorn in the negotiations was the IJA simply refused to lose face by withdrawing from their forever war in China. In retrospect it was a stupid decision. They were bogged down, the Chinese were putting up an effective defense, and there was no end in sight in a conflict that was draining them while giving back very little.
They could have withdrew while keeping Korea and their puppet state of Manchuko as well as French Indochina and America would have lifted sanctions but the Army flat out refused to leave China. We knew we were in no shape for war so our negotiators were willing to give them almost everything they wanted.
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Embargoes don't work if everyone isn't on board with them..
From what I seen in recent history is that there are always countries willing to break them
China will not honor it for one...
https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-tells-xi-new-deal-that-could-sell-more-russian-gas-china-2022-02-04/
Eagler
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Cahoots.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-russia-china-agree-30-year-gas-deal-using-new-pipeline-source-2022-02-04/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-russia-china-agree-30-year-gas-deal-using-new-pipeline-source-2022-02-04/)
(https://m.wsj.net/video/20220204/02042022putinxisplash/02042022putinxisplash_960x540.jpg)
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Cahoots.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-russia-china-agree-30-year-gas-deal-using-new-pipeline-source-2022-02-04/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-russia-china-agree-30-year-gas-deal-using-new-pipeline-source-2022-02-04/)
(https://m.wsj.net/video/20220204/02042022putinxisplash/02042022putinxisplash_960x540.jpg)
Then I guess we can rule those two out on working towards a reduction in carbon emissions huh.
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The bear and the dragon against the eagle...
Where have I heard that before..
Hope the last two years weren't a beta test of sorts.
Eagler
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https://youtu.be/cNtO8NH_qmw
This has been on the table for a while...
Have to wonder why they think it is a good idea to move on it now..
As we all know discuss that would turn the thread to politics so please don't
Eagler
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on the other hand i saved 15% by switching to geico.
semp
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https://youtu.be/cNtO8NH_qmw
This has been on the table for a while...
Have to wonder why they think it is a good idea to move on it now..
As we all know discuss that would turn the thread to politics so please don't
Eagler
Very good summary in that video.
I want to comment on a bit early in video where "we russia consider ukrainians and russians to be one" part. Did you notice how its always under Russian banner, speaking russian language etc ? Kievan Rus started in Ukrainie, yet Putin isn't giving up his power to Kiev and such....
Ukraine is not russia, ukrainians are not russian. Hundreds of years of russia's dominance in that area have been marked by regular ethnic tensions, sometimes culimating in things like holodomor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor). This was same across "the empire".
I hope Ukraine gets though this. It's a shame that they trusted and UK/US when they gave up their nukes. Should have held on to them...
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It's a shame that they trusted and UK/US when they gave up their nukes. Should have held on to them...
Was it the actor, or the hillbilly that asked them to them up? I forget.
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Was it the actor, or the hillbilly that asked them to (give) them up? I forget.
Neither.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/12/05/why-care-about-ukraine-and-the-budapest-memorandum/
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Its called the "Posse Comitatus Act". The "Scam" has been around since the late 1870s, enacted after the civil war because "Union" military occupation of the South got out of hand, leading to the abuse of citizens of the United States. There has been numerous examples of the military being deployed to quell domestic squabbles. Some justified and some not.
Hence, Posse Comitatus requires an act of congress to send the military, unless somebody in the Fed Gov deems there is an insurrection, in which case the President can act.
But - I hear ya. . . . Why have any semblance of "Checks & Balances"?. . . . .lol After all, History has shown that the Government, its Citizens, and or the Military "ALWAYS" make the right decisions. . . . .lol
So an outdated law which doesnt talk about the border of America. Typical. "Hey you guys, you can go fight in Afghanistan and Iraq and after be called Islamaphobes by the people who voted to send you there. But you WILL NOT go protect America's border from the cartel and drug mules drugging our children, which is an act of war. We make too much money off of them".
Sure is strange why congress doesn't want to protect its own border, wouldn't you say? Hey I've got an idea. Let's just pass 30M in handing out new crack pipes to help the cartel even more and kill even more US kids.That will fix it! Gosh. So smart. So progressive.
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So an outdated law which doesnt talk about the border of America. Typical. "Hey you guys, you can go fight in Afghanistan and Iraq and after be called Islamaphobes by the people who voted to send you there. But you WILL NOT go protect America's border from the cartel and drug mules drugging our children, which is an act of war. We make too much money off of them".
Sure is strange why congress doesn't want to protect its own border, wouldn't you say? Hey I've got an idea. Let's just pass 30M in handing out new crack pipes to help the cartel even more and kill even more US kids.That will fix it! Gosh. So smart. So progressive.
1. Actually quite off topic.
2. Hyper-political
3. Extremely biased/ridiculous opinion.
4. Rules don't matter, anymore.
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They say we will know by end of month if Putin will roll as his tanks will get stuck if he waits any longer...
That is if he even has to use them..
We are threatening him with sanctions if he attacks, are we making him an Iranian nuclear deal payout if he doesn't?
Would we even know if we did make such an agreement?
If Putin pulls back now it makes Putin look weak and others who are stronger IMO
I don't think his ego will let that happen
Eagler
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So if the west promises Ukraine won't get a NATO invite, Putin will withdraw his forces...I think that should be the 1st approach and not sending troops and weapons into the area...
Have to wonder what the average Ukrainian thinks...they will die for the right to join NATO?
Doubt it...
Eagler
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Was it the actor, or the hillbilly that asked them to them up? I forget.
Uh, 1994 would make it the hillbilly. Thanks for playing.
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So an outdated law which doesnt talk about the border of America. Typical. "Hey you guys, you can go fight in Afghanistan and Iraq and after be called Islamaphobes by the people who voted to send you there. But you WILL NOT go protect America's border from the cartel and drug mules drugging our children, which is an act of war. We make too much money off of them".
Yes, that would be a part of the same dated laws that give us our "Freedom of Speech", laws made with the forethought for those that bark like a dog but are restrained by a chain attached to a stake in the ground. They are loud but really harmless - cuz all they do is bark at everything.
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Russia sells oil to many
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/oil-pushes-back-toward-7-year-high-as-russia-ukraine-tensions-continue-11643203008
Maybe that's all this is about..
Eagler
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I think it too late for Ukraine, but Professor John Mearsheimer of International Relations at the University of Chicago, had the best answers back in late Sept. 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
It's a 46 minute talk followed by Q&A. I still (said it here in 2014) think anyone living in Ukraine should evacuate, at least temporarily, until this is over.
It's a shame that two Presidents (one of each US main party) didn't listen. Sadly, there are no signs of a correction, but his predictions are just as valid today.
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So if the west promises Ukraine won't get a NATO invite, Putin will withdraw his forces...I think that should be the 1st approach and not sending troops and weapons into the area...
Have to wonder what the average Ukrainian thinks...they will die for the right to join NATO?
Doubt it...
Eagler
many will die not to become russian slaves again. To draw a parallel - would you have a problem being a british subject again ? Why not, language the same, similar culture, heck, you started there.... right ?
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many will die not to become russian slaves again. To draw a parallel - would you have a problem being a british subject again ? Why not, language the same, similar culture, heck, you started there.... right ?
Become a brit or die?
Is that the choice?
I used to live there and have visited since..and I love fish and chips..hmmm
Not the same thing but get your attempt at a comparison
Eagler
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So an outdated law which doesnt talk about the border of America. Typical.
an outdated law, cool, the constitution is 100 years older, way outdated. let's get rid of it too.
it actually is an old law that serves a purpose. military should not be used to enforce laws inside the usa, that's why we have police, border patrol, customs, you know the people that are actually trained for this situations.
semp
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Not the same thing but get your attempt at a comparison
Actually it is :) your language is virtually the same, common roots can be easily traced back, last war/genocide back in 1820 ? 200 years ago ?
Russia and Ukraine - languages differ quite a bit, common roots back 2000 years ago and shaky at best, 70 years ago genocide, 30 years ago nuclear depopulation and decades of prejudice...
If you're unwilling to be british, you should understand why Ukrainians don't want to be russian :)
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an outdated law, cool, the constitution is 100 years older, way outdated. let's get rid of it too.
it actually is an old law that serves a purpose. military should not be used to enforce laws inside the usa, that's why we have police, border patrol, customs, you know the people that are actually trained for this situations.
semp
First of all, the bill of rights and constitution is not a "law" per say, it protects citizens (not illegals) from the government and sets up a government structure. Funny how you claim you want to change that though. The law you and Tyfoo is talking about is about North vs South union troops, which is no longer an issue and has nothing to do with the southern border of a complete other country invading your soil. Therefore outdated. Secondly. The military is here to defend America from foreign acts of war. So why are we letting foreign acts of war invade our soil to take advantage of Americans? Further more, why are we spending 10s of millions to on a border patrol when we have a military already. What a waste. Especially when we cant even fund that enough to protect the whole border. Oh I know, because you want to destroy America while sending 18 year olds to fight in deserts or other countries across the world for your oil pipelines and agendas. You want American kids to be drugged and weakened while the establishment gets paid off. Pretty F-Ed up if you ask me. I'd expect nothing less from establishment boot lickers who want to America to collapse into the grips of the global government fascist. If Putin went after the WEF, WTO, WHO, and other criminal fraud globalist institutions. I wouldn't care one bit.
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Apparently, Putin threatened Nuclear War, in his meeting with the Macaroon..
Just watched the post meeting statement from Putin, he said it again publicly..
Hmmmm, but no counter statement from the Fluffy French Cookie?
Not gettin a lot of press in the west either.. Go figure huh?
I'm tellin ya, the Russians are NOT going to allow a NATO missile umbrella over their territory!
Another military threat from the west, how did the last one end up???
EU, is barkin up the wrong tree!
Just ask the simple question.. Who, is wizzin on who's doorstep here????
If your arrogant neighbor came over and wizzed on your doorstep, would you allow it???
:rofl, I bet some of you would!
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Putin is stating it's all about Crimea..that once NATO controls Ukraine they will try to take Crimea back ..
He admits his only action then are nukes with no winner..
https://youtu.be/QXCKRTqB4-o
So someone should call his bluff and promise him NATO won't invite Ukraine anytime soon and see if he withdraws his forces..not send over troops
You know we have "advisors" in Ukraine training their military now...sounds like the early 60's in another part of the world that ended poorly for US and the French before us..
fd ski
it isn't the same thing as living under Russia rule is much more restricted than living under British rule...if the choice was everyone and everything I knew would be killed or destroyed or I became a brit..I would be on the double decker bus on my way to Liverpool with no problems..
Eagler
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Apparently, Putin threatened Nuclear War, in his meeting with the Macaroon..
Just watched the post meeting statement from Putin, he said it again publicly..
Hmmmm, but no counter statement from the Fluffy French Cookie?
Not gettin a lot of press in the west either.. Go figure huh?
I'm tellin ya, the Russians are NOT going to allow a NATO missile umbrella over their territory!
Another military threat from the west, how did the last one end up???
EU, is barkin up the wrong tree!
Just ask the simple question.. Who, is wizzin on who's doorstep here????
If your arrogant neighbor came over and wizzed on your doorstep, would you allow it???
:rofl, I bet some of you would!
Smooth your hackles, ol son. You're the one sounding more frazzled than the rest. But I'll tell you something - if you don't think Putin hasn't been having a recurrent wet dream about forcing the former Soviet satellite nations back into some semblance of the former USSR (under any pretense or excuse) then you have a peculiar talent for avoiding the obvious. :cool:
Now, is it remotely possible to unplug from political division in this topic? (heh, probably not)
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nm smdh
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Smooth your hackles, ol son. You're the one sounding more frazzled than the rest. But I'll tell you something - if you don't think Putin hasn't been having a recurrent wet dream about forcing the former Soviet satellite nations back into some semblance of the former USSR (under any pretense or excuse) then you have a peculiar talent for avoiding the obvious. :cool:
Notice how Putin doesn't seem to want to go after any other nation that borders it. You are crazy if you think Putin wants to bring back soviet Russia. Putin is not a soviet despite the constant western media propaganda. Infact, Russia is better off today than it has been in 100 years because Putin dealt with the soviets and kickwd most of them out. The west is now controlled by thr soviets. Which is why you are seeing much more totalitarian control by west using soviet style propaganda to subvert its population. Uri Bezmenov straight called it out and has been warning America for a while. Funny how one side seems to write it off. There's your sign.
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Notice how Putin doesn't seem to want to go after any other nation that borders it.
And you shouldn't stuff a whole pie in your mouth at once. The rest of your post is just as stupid but I suspect it was the radicalization talking.
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Smooth your hackles, ol son. You're the one sounding more frazzled than the rest. But I'll tell you something - if you don't think Putin hasn't been having a recurrent wet dream about forcing the former Soviet satellite nations back into some semblance of the former USSR (under any pretense or excuse) then you have a peculiar talent for avoiding the obvious.
NATO nations promised in signed agreements, NOT to extend Article 5 to former Soviet Republics..
BEFORE the Russians allowed those Republics out of their former security agreements..
NATO LIED! Which should be no surprise to anyone, considering who is running the EU..
Some idiots think that Russia wants them back, LOL, no way..
They are far too corrupted, bought off, but Russia is not willing to give up their western buffer!
Russia will not tolerate the 4th Reich threatening them on their OWN border..
Even the Ukrainians are telling the west to STFU!
Frazzled??? LOL, I think it is FUNNY.. EU gettin torched would be doing the world a favor!
If the European people can't deal with their own corrupt Govts, the Russians will!
Have at it, see what happens, it'll be a great show! :cheers:
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Whew. Now the dam is bursting with crazy all over this thread. :old:
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What's another promise when they are just broken down the road...
I think a Ukraine without NATO anytime soon should be the card the west should play not a few thousand boots on the ground that doesn't do anything but complicate everything if/when they go from advisory to active...
Sorry but Ukraine gov/leadership is not worth one drop of anyone's blood IMO..
Eagler
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And you shouldn't stuff a whole pie in your mouth at once. The rest of your post is just as stupid but I suspect it was the radicalization talking.
You are the one who is radicalized and furthering the destruction of America. I lived in craphole ran by soviets in Portland. I know exactly what you want all of America to become, a trash dump ran by children. Your cities prove how wicked your propaganda and subversion has become. Free crack pipes for all! Yay!
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You are the one who is radicalized and furthering the destruction of America. I lived in craphole ran by soviets in Portland. I know exactly what you want all of America to become, a trash dump. Your cities prove how wicked your propaganda and subversion has become. Free crack pipes for all! Yay!
Between the two of us one of us actually served this nation (back when there was a USSR). Sell your crazy on another corner. :D
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Between the two of us one of us actually served this nation (back when there was a USSR). Sell your crazy on another corner. :D
I served this nation as well, facing the Warsaw Pact across the Fulda gap..
My son was KIA is 2004 in Afghanistan, in a war that was ALLOWED to happen
by corrupt Govt agencies.. So, I KNOW THE COST, BETTER THAN YOU..
If you think the Corrupt Ukranian regime is worth it??? Then lace up those combat boots..
Get over there, I hear they are taking volunteers!
But ya won't will ya???
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Between the two of us one of us actually served this nation (back when there was a USSR). Sell your crazy on another corner. :D
And between the 2 of us. One was subverted Into a soviet to protect the establishment and disregard American values, while the other learned and studied who and what controls the establishment you bend over for.
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I served this nation as well, facing the Warsaw Pact across the Fulda gap..
My son was KIA is 2004 in Afghanistan, in a war that was ALLOWED to happen
by corrupt Govt agencies.. So, I KNOW THE COST, BETTER THAN YOU..
If you think the Corrupt Ukranian regime is worth it??? Then lace up those combat boots..
Get over there, I hear they are taking volunteers!
But ya won't will ya???
Relax, fellow vet. I was talking to 'Mr. You're a Nazi/Communist and I'm a true patriot! head.' You're a bit loony, as well, but I don't challenge your credentials. :cool:
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And between the 2 of us. One was subverted Into a soviet to protect the establishment and disregard American values, while the other learned and studied who and what controls the establishment you bend over for.
Apology accepted (in spite of you being unable to realize where that high road is and can't seem to understand that I knew and upheld American values before your parents even thought of hatching you). Keep on carrying on - on your own. :old:
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Relax, fellow vet. I was talking to 'Mr. You're a Nazi/Communist and I'm a true patriot! head.' You're a bit loony, as well, but I don't challenge your credentials. :cool:
I think all the war mongering pukes should put their body where their mouth is!
Or, put their cold war head, back up their posterior exhaust port..
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I think all the war mongering pukes should put their body where their mouth is!
Or, put their cold war head, back up their posterior exhaust port..
And I think your disrespectful nature and childish attitude will get you far in life. Real far. The farther the better. Same for your younger friend there. Thanks for your service. It doesn't need that much measuring.
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And I think your disrespectful nature and childish attitude will get you far in life. Real far. The farther the better. Same for your younger friend there. Thanks for your service. It doesn't need that much measuring.
Talk the talk, then whine, BOOOOHOOO..
I'll be waiting for your posts from the Ukraine, supertrooper..
Or maybe when your son has paid the price mine paid, THEN you will have more understanding..
Then maybe you will deserve a respectful reply..
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Apology accepted (in spite of you being unable to realize where that high road is and can't seem to understand that I knew and upheld American values before your parents even thought of hatching you). Keep on carrying on - on your own. :old:
Allowing the drugging, over sexualization of children, allowing men to play woman's sports, putting 18 year olds in serious debt to go to college as they told us that was the only way, and the overall sellout of Americans and its industry is upholding American values? I realize there isn't probably much you could do to stop it individually. But why do you defend it still? I feel for people like Old Nitro and his child who suffered the ultimate sacrifice for a war the establishment fooled us into, just like Vietnam and my uncle, Thats what pisses me off the most. That's why I can't stand these people any more and speak out against them. We will never be united with voices like yours that skirt the truth and deny that there is something wrong with the powers that control this country, and most parts of the world for that matter. I am sick of it.
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Talk the talk, then whine, BOOOOHOOO..
I'll be waiting for your posts from the Ukraine, supertrooper..
Or maybe when your son has paid the price mine paid, THEN you will have more understanding..
Then maybe you will deserve a respectful reply..
I'm a 60 year old stroke surviving amputee (only a toe) but your faith in my ability to walk into the recruiting office (switching branches and job descriptions) and demand a slot for the Ukraine is most inspiring (in spite of no evidence of my being a war lover). I'm sorry for your loss. I wouldn't want either of my daughters or either of my step-sons to die in war (particularly if I was as fervently against from the start as you obviously were). But don't waste time spilling your misplaced anger on me. It's nothing but a forum pitiful display at this point.
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Allowing the drugging, over sexualization of children, allowing men to play woman's sports, putting 18 year olds in serious debt to go to college as they told us that was the only way, and the overall sellout of Americans and its industry is upholding American values? I realize there isn't probably much you could do to stop it individually. But why do you defend it still? I feel for people like Old Nitro and his child who suffered the ultimate sacrifice for a war the establishment fooled us into, just like Vietnam and my uncle, Thats what pisses me off the most. That's why I can't stand these people any more and speak out against them. We will never be united with voices like yours that skirt the truth and deny that there is something wrong with the powers that control this country, and most parts of the world for that matter. I am sick of it.
Just get help. Please. No, really.
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Between the two of us one of us actually served this nation (back when there was a USSR). Sell your crazy on another corner. :D
As Mr. Wing warned us, do not expose them to light, especially sunlight; do not let them come in contact with water; and above all, never feed them after midnight.
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NATO nations promised in signed agreements, NOT to extend Article 5 to former Soviet Republics..
BEFORE the Russians allowed those Republics out of their former security agreements..
NATO LIED! Which should be no surprise to anyone, considering who is running the EU..
Can you link to documented evidence of those signed agreements from reputable source?
This is was first popped up on my search:
What the Germans, Americans, British and French did agree to in 1990 was that there would be no deployment of non-German NATO forces on the territory of the former GDR. I was a deputy director on the State Department’s Soviet desk at the time, and that was certainly the point of Secretary James Baker’s discussions with Gorbachev and his foreign minister, Eduard Shevardnadze. In 1990, few gave the possibility of a broader NATO enlargement to the east any serious thought.
The agreement on not deploying foreign troops on the territory of the former GDR was incorporated in Article 5 of the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany, which was signed on September 12, 1990 by the foreign ministers of the two Germanys, the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France. Article 5 had three provisions:
Until Soviet forces had completed their withdrawal from the former GDR, only German territorial defense units not integrated into NATO would be deployed in that territory.
There would be no increase in the numbers of troops or equipment of U.S., British and French forces stationed in Berlin.
Once Soviet forces had withdrawn, German forces assigned to NATO could be deployed in the former GDR, but foreign forces and nuclear weapons systems would not be deployed there.
When one reads the full text of the Woerner speech cited by Putin, it is clear that the secretary general’s comments referred to NATO forces in eastern Germany, not a broader commitment not to enlarge the Alliance.
FORMER SOVIET PRESIDENT GORBACHEV’S VIEW
We now have a very authoritative voice from Moscow confirming this understanding. Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev, who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. …
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/ (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/)
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Just get help. Please. No, really.
:rofl typical response from the subversion team. No wonder the US intelligence and media has the lowest ratings and approval in history. Why do you completely ignore the subversion techniques being pushed on Americans?
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If enlargement of NATO is the true reason for this then we need to stop ASAP as that expansion is not worth the cost today for some bs promise of security in the future ...security against what..the red commie machine taking over world politics?
It's happening without bloodshed now..look around/listen to some of our "leaders"
Eagler
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If enlargement of NATO is the true reason for this then we need to stop ASAP as that expansion is not worth the cost today for some bs promise of security in the future ...security against what..the red commie machine taking over world politics?
It appears there was in fact, no written agreement promising never expand NATO eastward (outside of the specific context of the GDR).
There are no ongoing discussions of adding Ukraine into NATO at this time.
There wasn't at the time Putin began his build up on the border.
NATO is simply not going to promise to never to admit any eastern nation 10, 20, 50 years in the future. It is certainly not going to make those promises at the point of a gun.
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I think all the war mongering pukes should put their body where their mouth is!
Or, put their cold war head, back up their posterior exhaust port..
not sure if you're including me in "war mongering pukes" group, so let me just say that I served as well. USN at the end of first gulf war. Not the same as ground pounding by I did my time. Now my bellybutton is 300 miles away from Russian tanks ( Kaliningrad district ) and let me just respectfully say that your understanding of European affairs is horribly skewed. Not sure where you get your information but there is nobody west of Russian border who wants war. Such people exist only in Putin's scary stories that are supposed to justify his aggression.
As Arlo pointed out, entire discussion about Ukraine in NATO is a non issue for number of reasons.
Last but not least, why is it that Russia is entitled to it's "spheres of influence" and "buffer zones" at the cost of normal, freedom loving people ? People seem to accept this as a given, why not give Ukraine a buffer zone and have Russia move back past Urals ? Would that be ok ?
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NATO is simply not going to promise to never to admit any eastern nation 10, 20, 50 years in the future. It is certainly not going to make those promises at the point of a gun.
Instead let them start a war where none of their close relatives will have to serve in and if they do they are so far removed they face no danger...
Ukraine isn't worth it ... would you want the gov to sacrifice your children for nothing?
Like the last "war" which lasted over 20 years and we then tucked tail and fled...
Think Ukraine is any less corrupt than Afghanistan?
Looks more like a distraction from much larger issues at home..
Eagler
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First of all, the bill of rights and constitution is not a "law" per say, it protects citizens (not illegals) from the government and sets up a government structure.
14th amendment, damn read the constitution once in a while. anybody here whether legal or illegal is subject to the laws and protected by them. and it's a law not sure what else to call it.
Funny how you claim you want to change that though. The law you and Tyfoo is talking about is about North vs South union troops, which is no longer an issue and has nothing to do with the southern border of a complete other country invading your soil. Therefore outdated.
the reason there is no more north v south, it's because of that law you want to remove :bhead
Secondly. The military is here to defend America from foreign acts of war. So why are we letting foreign acts of war invade our soil to take advantage of Americans? Further more, why are we spending 10s of millions to on a border patrol when we have a military already. What a waste. Especially when we cant even fund that enough to protect the whole border.
only invasion is in your head. if it really was an invasion we would have the military there. funny how one time you said you never joined the military because you didnt want to be indoctrinated, but now you say don corleone, give me justice, but you dont offer friendship, you dont offer respect...
Oh I know, because you want to destroy America while sending 18 year olds to fight in deserts or other countries across the world for your oil pipelines and agendas.
yes, I want a pipeline from ucraine all the way to the united states. <end of sarcasm>
You want American kids to be drugged and weakened while the establishment gets paid off. Pretty F-Ed up if you ask me. I'd expect nothing less from establishment boot lickers who want to America to collapse into the grips of the global government fascist. If Putin went after the WEF, WTO, WHO, and other criminal fraud globalist institutions. I wouldn't care one bit.
yes I want kids to be drugged because I love misery and misery loves company. <end of sarcasm> used to volunteer in rehab places, it's a place of misery, dont wish that upon anybody. if you did a little more reseach you will find out that the biggest drug seizures have been up north not on the southern border. if only there was a way for 20% of the population to stop smoking or snorting that crap, we wouldnt have as many deaths.
you are as misguided as always and your fake outrage is just that fake.
semp
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Instead let them start a war
NATO is not starting anything.
To avoid war, Russia simply needs to stay on it's side of the border and there will be no war.
If Russia wants to have military exercises in their territory for the next 6 months, that's fine with me. The second they step across the border then there is a problem.
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I lived in craphole ran by soviets in Portland.
Come to Tennessee. :aok
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Does Nato want Ukraine to join < Search phrase
https://www.startpage.com/sp/search (https://www.startpage.com/sp/search)
Has Nato put weapons in Ukraine < Search phrase
https://www.startpage.com/sp/search (https://www.startpage.com/sp/search)
It's pretty obvious that Nato knows how to play the game
The US flipped over Castro 90 miles away and nearly started a war over Cuban / Russian Missiles
Today this would be like Mexico going Russian, the US would be doing the same thing Russia is doing or worse
What's the answer, there isn't one except in all things, politics, religion, ideology were eating each other alive these days. I blame it on money, over population and the internet (opinions are like but holes, everyone has one and thanks to the internet they want to share it. See, even me
PS sorry the links didn't work as expected
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in all things, politics, religion, ideology were eating each other alive these days. I blame it on money, over population and the internet
Those are tools. It's the people using the tools, and their agenda, that is causing the trouble.
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It's pretty obvious that Nato knows how to play the game
There was never any signed agreement stipulating NATO would refrain from expanding to eastern European countries that I can find (excluding the specific case of GDR specified above.).
Any claims such a signed agreement existence must be considered untruthful unless a link can be provided.
No NATO forces have deployed to Ukraine. Given Russia's invasion of Georgia, and Russia's invasion of Crimea, it is no wonder many smaller European countries bordering an aggressive state with a know habit of expanding territory by military means, I don't blame them for seeking protection from NATO. Those will be considered on a case by case basis. There is no current membership action plan (MAPS) involving Ukraine to join NATO. (A long drawn out process that takes years required to achieve membership.) None are in discussion as far as I know.
NATO troops have been sent to current eastern NATO member nations to shore up defenses which is consistent with our treaty obligation given the increase threats in the region.
We are free to provide these nations defensive armament given Russia's past habit of invasion. If Ukraine preemptively invades Russia, they will be in the wrong and should be held accountable. If Russia invades Ukraine they are in the wrong and should be held accountable.
Whether or not there is war is purely in the hands of Putin at this point. Stay in Russian territory and there will be no war. It's going to ultimately be Putin's choice. However, we should clearly communicate to him what the repercussions are likely to be to avoid unfortunate mis-calculations.
It really can't get any simpler than that.
I understand Russia's security concerns, and am not totally unsympathetic. We can not of course allow Putin a blanket veto power on NATO membership. I could see the usefulness of an agreement of carefully balanced military deployment in a zone on either side of a shared border between NATO members and Russia. But that has to apply equally to Russia as it would a NATO member. It would have to monitored carefully. I think that would benefit both sides to avoid accidental misunderstandings.
I would think some period of time would have to go by without Russia having invaded a weaker neighbor to acquire territory before such an arrangement could be seriously considered. But Russia can not seriously expect NATO members, or non-NATO members to not react to aggressively forward deployed forces on a shared border give their proven expansionist tendencies.
To expect NATO or a weaker non-NATO neighbor to unilaterally disarm and simply "trust" Putin, is not rational given the history of his rule.
Again, all Putin has to do to avoid war is not cross that border.
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you are as misguided as always and your fake outrage is just that fake.
semp
First of all, that's not what I said about joining the military, but please continue to put words I didn't say into my text.
Secondly, there would be no illegals in the country if the government actually did its job correctly. Illegals do not have the same rights as citizens. I don't care how you interpret the 14th amendment. I don't believe that's what the founders intended.
Thirdly. There is an invasion, whether slow or fast. It's an invasion. And the fact that you and the idiots are denying that, is proof you want to undercut and drug Americans for kickbacks. The majority of drugs are coming from Mexico and the cartel. Why do you want the cartel in America?
Fourthly, that law is no longer necessary and it's proof you don't want the military to protect americans from drug cartels and other terrorist invading the country. They are far worse and scarier than Russia. The left proved that when they cried over the wall. A bunch of scumbags they are.
Hey guess what Semp. They wouldn't be addicted to the drug if the drug wasn't easily accessible. What a novel idea. Curtail the supply and there is no access to it. Wow. How hard is that. If the herion and meth supply was cut off. There would be no access to it. Therefore less kids would be able to get addicted to it. Gee golly. How hard is that to figure out. But we all know your establishment cochroaches make too much money off letting it in and then sending those kids to prison to rot like my buddy. Bunch of cowards.
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Semp,
You stated this: ‘ if you did a little more reseach you will find out that the biggest drug seizures have been up north not on the southern border’
Where is up north? Canada?
In Nogales a ~few months back DEA/CBP had it’s largest fentanyl seizure in Arizona history. That one bust alone is drop in the ocean compared to what isn’t caught.
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Semp,
You stated this: ‘ if you did a little more reseach you will find out that the biggest drug seizures have been up north not on the southern border’
Where is up north? Canada?
In Nogales a ~few months back DEA/CBP had it’s largest fentanyl seizure in Arizona history. That one bust alone is drop in the ocean compared to what isn’t caught.
wow 254 lbs, nice catch and no sarcasm. point is, not everything is coming thru the southern border. some big catches have also been done in your york, and at the canadian border. heck cocaine often washes out in florida, every couple of months you hear about it. same from northern california, washington, heck anywhere where you can fly, have a dock or walk it, it will get there.
semp
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First of all, that's not what I said about joining the military, but please continue to put words I didn't say into my text.
Secondly, there would be no illegals in the country if the government actually did its job correctly. Illegals do not have the same rights as citizens. I don't care how you interpret the 14th amendment. I don't believe that's what the founders intended.
I dont interpret the 14th amendment, the supreme court does. just food for thought, if the illegal aliens would not be protected by the constitution, then they wouldnt be illegal as they also wouldnt be subject to the law. that's the correct interpretation of the law.
Thirdly. There is an invasion, whether slow or fast. It's an invasion. And the fact that you and the idiots are denying that, is proof you want to undercut and drug Americans for kickbacks. The majority of drugs are coming from Mexico and the cartel. Why do you want the cartel in America?
drugs are coming thru mexico and most of the world, they're made everywhere else in the world. heck we have labs here that make just about any drug people want.
Fourthly, that law is no longer necessary and it's proof you don't want the military to protect americans from drug cartels and other terrorist invading the country. They are far worse and scarier than Russia. The left proved that when they cried over the wall. A bunch of scumbags they are.
what you think is not needed isnt necessarily the right answer. do you really wish the military to take over enforcing the law and get rid of the police and everybody else? because if we really have an invasion, we couldnt deploy it as they are busy enforcing laws, that police, border patrol... are trained for it. i was in the marines, i was not trained to enforce civil laws. and sure as hell dont want a tank on my block.
Hey guess what Semp. They wouldn't be addicted to the drug if the drug wasn't easily accessible. What a novel idea. Curtail the supply and there is no access to it. Wow. How hard is that. If the herion and meth supply was cut off. There would be no access to it. Therefore less kids would be able to get addicted to it. Gee golly. How hard is that to figure out. But we all know your establishment cochroaches make too much money off letting it in and then sending those kids to prison to rot like my buddy. Bunch of cowards.
you are young, you havent been around as long as I have been. think you moved to florida right? florida is where most of the cocaine came in back in the 80's. and it was the coast guard, federal officers, and about 80% of the police who stopped it. the other 20% give or take where on the take. drugs have been accessible since hundreds of years before i was born. and they will be hundreds of years after I am dead. you think it's something new. the other day I stopped at stater brothers, there was a guy asking me for a dollar, i just walked by him. his face had paint smudges around his nose and mouth. then I walked in saw the sale signs for beer and alcohol, hey it's superbowl next week. you should research on what people get high on. paint thinner, glue, there's a thousand of ways to get high. if you really want to. you are naive.
semp
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There are about 900,000 lbs of illegal drugs seized each year crossing US borders. About 45% is at the southwest land border, which are coming into the US from Mexico. About 40% is coastal/interior ports of entry, which is also drugs coming into the US from Mexico and countries south of the border. About 15% is at the norther border, which is mostly the drugs that came in from south of the border being taken to and across the northern border into Canada.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/drug-seizure-statistics
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Hey. Could someone now start a Q thread or something now that it doesn't matter who posts what to whom no matter how stupid, disrespectful or insane they sound? Then hijack every other thread in the O club to spin the crazy agenda all over?:old:
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Hey. Could someone now start a Q thread or something now that it doesn't matter who posts what to whom no matter how stupid, disrespectful or insane they sound? Then hijack every other thread in the O club to spin the crazy agenda all over?:old:
i would, but whatever happened to the lizards or q?, is the ex still going incognito to find who shot biggie and 2pac?
semp
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semp
We have never had serius drugs like we do now. Fentaynl and herion are destroying single time users. It's a bio weapon. I'm not talking about "getting high" and the term drugs can be thrown around too easily. Meth, herion, and Fent, and opiods for that matter. Are tricking too many kids into thinking it's not serious and think they are cool. I've seen people spend $600 a week on this stuff. It's too dangerous and I have to speak up about this.
I am not capable of doing the things these officers do to protect their community and border from drug gangs, but they need help from the military to take down the large facilities and patrol the border. We cant send troops to other countries but then not protect our own border. Thats silly. That is all I am saying. Semp we cannot risk this any longer. I am not talking about tanks in the street. I'm talking about our border and the damage that is causing America. I'm talking about using tactical man power to end these rings. Sorta like the one that happened in Oregon last year. That was awesome. I respect and admire these men who do this. Seriously brave men. That bravery shouldn't be abused anymore for other countries.
I want Americas border to be protected by our military. Not Ukraines. I'm not gonna have this "well we can go protect other countries borders and send our kids there to fight, but we aren't going to protect our own country's border with our own military" how illogical and irrational does that sound. Meanwhile bio weapons destroy our youths lives out from under them when they are just trying to break lose and don't even know. We could stop a tremendous amount of poverty, homelessness, and death if we just used our resources to protect our own border. It's shameful that some of you look for every excuse not to protect your own borders. Certainly makes me wonder.
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We have never had serius drugs like we do now. Fentaynl and herion are destroying single time users. It's a bio weapon. I'm not talking about "getting high" and the term drugs can be thrown around too easily. Meth, herion, and Fent, and opiods for that matter. Are tricking too many kids into thinking it's not serious and think they are cool. I've seen people spend $600 a week on this stuff. It's too dangerous and I have to speak up about this.
I am not capable of doing the things these officers do to protect their community and border from drug gangs, but they need help from the military to take down the large facilities and patrol the border. We cant send troops to other countries but then not protect our own border. Thats silly. That is all I am saying. Semp we cannot risk this any longer. I am not talking about tanks in the street. I'm talking about our border and the damage that is causing America. I'm talking about using tactical man power to end these rings. Sorta like the one that happened in Oregon last year. That was awesome. I respect and admire these men who do this. Seriously brave men. That bravery shouldn't be abused anymore for other countries.
I want Americas border to be protected by our military. Not Ukraines. I'm not gonna have this "well we can go protect other countries borders and send our kids there to fight, but we aren't going to protect our own country's border with our own military" how illogical and irrational does that sound. Meanwhile bio weapons destroy our youths lives out from under them when they are just trying to break lose and don't even know. We could stop a tremendous amount of poverty, homelessness, and death if we just used our resources to protect our own border. It's shameful that some of you look for every excuse not to protect your own borders. Certainly makes me wonder.
really, oh man, told you I am older than you, you have no idea what it was back in the 80's. I was around 21 or 22, you could find whatever you wanted in the bathroom of any nightclub. drugs have changed, fentanyl wasnt around then but whatever you wanted, you could get. was born in the 60's dont really know about the 70's but the 80's, it was a party town.
semp
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Hey. Could someone now start a Q thread or something now that it doesn't matter who posts what to whom no matter how stupid, disrespectful or insane they sound? Then hijack every other thread in the O club to spin the crazy agenda all over?:old:
I would too, but I predict it would get locked after exactly 17 posts.... proving the conspiracy is real :rolleyes:
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This might have some affect:
(https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/26768.jpeg)
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There is a reason Finland is soon starting up a nuclear plant in the near future
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Nuclear Central heating :D
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I would too, but I predict it would get locked after exactly 17 posts.... proving the conspiracy is real :rolleyes:
The fact that '17' Intelligence agencies can't prove who it is, tells me the conspiracy is real.
Did you know Q started on the same day as the Durham investigation. There's your sign.
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This might have some affect:
(https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/26768.jpeg)
Pretty sad isn't it. Now let's do natural gas in the northern US states. Im trying to figure out if its them who want to take out Putin in order to put their nwo puppet in there. All they need is Putin to make a move first so they can blame it on him. Remember, Russia was the good guys during uranium one. So it's interesting to see them hate Putin so much now. Certainly makes me wonder.
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Russian oil is a huge factor in any actions against them..no one is going to restrict their lifes to save Ukraine
Like us trying to punish China for something er cough cough..sorry to say but we can't as we get the majority of our can't live without crap from them..
How this plays out in the next 8 months will be telling in many ways..something tells me Russia doesn't want anything to change then in the US..China neither
..and all the while they prepare for a war if needed but it won't be to save Ukraine ... unless they want a world war but it will be the conflict the global economy will need for other reasons
https://youtu.be/kY_x1Obn4wo
Germany says no to weapons as she needs its oil...
Eagler
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This might have some affect:
(https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/26768.jpeg)
This is a BS graph, because it doesn't actually depict what it's title claims. It just shows how much of the natural gas consumed is coming from Russia. But there is no context, it doesn't show how much the country is relying on natural gas in the first place. AFAIK Finland, for example, is using very little natural gas at all, so it would be really much less dependent on those imports from Russia than Germany where in 2019 41% of all households were using natural gas for heating
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The fact that '17' Intelligence agencies can't prove who it is, tells me the conspiracy is real.
Did you know Q started on the same day as the Durham investigation. There's your sign.
you know the two pictures that you posted q was on airforce one actually prove that he wasnt.
the missile that q claim was shot at airforce one, didn't happen either. the plane was heading east and not over the the west coast.
did you know that q is the father and son who ran the bb.
I could go on but it's useless, you too far gone.
semp
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Hey. Could someone now start a Q thread or something now that it doesn't matter who posts what to whom no matter how stupid, disrespectful or insane they sound? Then hijack every other thread in the O club to spin the crazy agenda all over?:old:
Dmonslyr
This is why I wish you would not drift into other topics even though someone else may have caused the drift, I give you credit for what you do but you could type anything, the sky is blue on a sunny day and the same people every time would come in and debate with you why it is not blue
The current Ukraine issues are important ones, please don't give your "buddies" the openings
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I served this nation as well, facing the Warsaw Pact across the Fulda gap..
My son was KIA is 2004 in Afghanistan, in a war that was ALLOWED to happen
by corrupt Govt agencies.. So, I KNOW THE COST, BETTER THAN YOU..
If you think the Corrupt Ukranian regime is worth it??? Then lace up those combat boots..
Get over there, I hear they are taking volunteers!
But ya won't will ya???
Very sorry for your loss sir
Way too many over the past 20 years ...
And now it looks like some want another..
<S>
Eagler
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Dmonslyr
This is why I wish you would not drift into other topics even though someone else may have caused the drift, I give you credit for what you do but you could type anything, the sky is blue on a sunny day and the same people every time would come in and debate with you why it is not blue
The current Ukraine issues are important ones, please don't give your "buddies" the openings
TBH, that's why I feel like either a massive dump of info needs to be released to the world by a military force proving how corrupt the media, global establishment, and other things are. Or we are akin for a global war. To me, that's the only way. Because right now, liberals and conservatives in all countries around the world are so far different and divided while one side is doing everything they can to mislead the truth, exactly like Semp and Arlo above who write completely false statements and skirt talking about the truth. What I saw from their people during the last presidency is an indication that we are going to war whether it be 5, 10, or 20 years from now unless we systematically take down the funders who are constantly pushing propaganda on our nation's to create division and chaos while stealing more of our money. That is why I have no more faith in the intelligence community because they are allowing communist to systematically destroy the country and take over the world, while labeling proud Americans who are seeing corruption with their own eyes as terrorist. War will be coming against the establishment and anyone defending them if the people who we depend on to go after corruption do not start going after the real corruption. Consider the trucking convoy in Canada a light warning. The establishment will do anything to comit a false flag to start a war or release a bio weapon like Covid to avoid their prosecution and shift the attention off of them while hurting the world population. It's time the military did something or the citizens will do it for them and leave it up to the military and police who they want to protect. That's the way I see it. Consider what is going on in Canada a peaceful attempt for the citizens to remove their corrupt leader abusing its citizens. The establishment has it coming for them.
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TBH, that's why I feel like either a massive dump of info needs to be released to the world by a military force proving how corrupt the media, global establishment, and other things are.
Both sides, all sides do it, its extremely important that you understand this. Truth has to be equal, deception is equal, look for both everywhere. Also be a bit more measured in your responses to make them the most effective, this is a forum debate after all. Separate the lackeys from the open-minded debaters in your responses, most are pretty obvious some are hidden by walls of text.
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*np*
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IMO Life is way too short to worry about most of that Violator
The world is hosed as it is designed to be .. not much will change that
Don't let excessive worry send you to an early grave
Enjoy every moment as that's all you really have
And if done correctly nothing much else matters
Eagler
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Things are broken into two sides.
One is willing to act to get what it wants.
The other is big on talk but not on results.
For a side to get what it wants, it has to work toward it. Griping and "Oh, well" won't accomplish it.
Better would be sides working together toward the best system, or no sides. But that's not the current state of things.
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TBH, that's why I feel like either a massive dump of info needs to be released to the world by a military force proving how corrupt the media, global establishment, and other things are. Or we are akin for a global war. To me, that's the only way. Because right now, liberals and conservatives in all countries around the world are so far different and divided while one side is doing everything they can to mislead the truth, exactly like Semp and Arlo above who write completely false statements and skirt talking about the truth. What I saw from their people during the last presidency is an indication that we are going to war whether it be 5, 10, or 20 years from now unless we systematically take down the funders who are constantly pushing propaganda on our nation's to create division and chaos while stealing more of our money. That is why I have no more faith in the intelligence community because they are allowing communist to systematically destroy the country and take over the world, while labeling proud Americans who are seeing corruption with their own eyes as terrorist. War will be coming against the establishment and anyone defending them if the people who we depend on to go after corruption do not start going after the real corruption. Consider the trucking convoy in Canada a light warning. The establishment will do anything to comit a false flag to start a war or release a bio weapon like Covid to avoid their prosecution and shift the attention off of them while hurting the world population. It's time the military did something or the citizens will do it for them and leave it up to the military and police who they want to protect. That's the way I see it. Consider what is going on in Canada a peaceful attempt for the citizens to remove their corrupt leader abusing its citizens. The establishment has it coming for them.
you know think a civil war will be good for the country. remember the last civil war, it was still being fought 100 years later and for some it continues till today. you think a civil war is a noble thing, you are far from it, you think whichever side that loses is going to say, we were wrong, let us join you and we will live in an utopia. because if you think like that, you should run for miss universe, they are the only ones that have that power.
a civil war would not be a state versus other states, it will be within a state and it doesnt matter who wins because everybody will lose. economy will be in ruins and whoever survives will probably starve to death.
that's how misguided you are, thinking that in a war, the losing side somehow gives up and joins. we still have nazis from a war that ended 70 or 80 years ago.
what you planing to do with those who lose? kill them? then what, kill those who arent loyal enough and at one time somebody it gonna say you personally arent loyal enough. sounds familiar? that was russia, you seem to hate russia but you heading for the russian way of thinking of the 1920's and 1930's. you blame everybody else, because you listen to nonsense, oh the globalists, the lizard satanic forces, this guy or that guy. you like to think you think outside of the box, but you are the box you created and only things that fit your narrative fit into it.
you are a smart kid, but you are too far gone. I was like that 20 years ago. took me years to start thinking for myself and questioning everything.
semp
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[you know think a civil war will be good for the country. remember the last civil war, it was still being fought 100 years later and for some it continues till today. you think a civil war is a noble thing, you are far from it, you think whichever side that loses is going to say, we were wrong, let us join you and we will live in an utopia. because if you think like that, you should run for miss universe, they are the only ones that have that power.
a civil war would not be a state versus other states, it will be within a state and it doesnt matter who wins because everybody will lose. economy will be in ruins and whoever survives will probably starve to death.
that's how misguided you are, thinking that in a war, the losing side somehow gives up and joins. we still have nazis from a war that ended 70 or 80 years ago.
what you planing to do with those who lose? kill them? then what, kill those who arent loyal enough and at one time somebody it gonna say you personally arent loyal enough. sounds familiar? that was russia, you seem to hate russia but you heading for the russian way of thinking of the 1920's and 1930's. you blame everybody else, because you listen to nonsense, oh the globalists, the lizard satanic forces, this guy or that guy. you like to think you think outside of the box, but you are the box you created and only things that fit your narrative fit into it.
you are a smart kid, but you are too far gone. I was like that 20 years ago. took me years to start thinking for myself and questioning everything.
semp
I haven’t read every post of his, but most for awhile now. I’m not sure where you get some of the things you say other than you put words in his mouth when you read into things he writes, e.g. ‘Civil war is noble’?
And the 100 years later :headscratch:, in 1965 we had racial tensions and a massive civil rights movement going; NOT a war.
Race wars have been promoted by many for that long, most notably by people like Tom Metzger, Malcolm X and organizations like the Klan and Black Panthers…not remotely the same however.
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https://youtu.be/7irciZnUW2g
At least everyone should believe him when he states he will not rescue any Americans who are left behind...his track record points to that cowardly prediction
Eagler
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https://youtu.be/7irciZnUW2g
At least everyone should believe him when he states he will not rescue any Americans who are left behind...his track record points to that cowardly prediction
Eagler
If they are stupid enough to stay, that is their problem.
How was Biden to know that the situation in Astan would turn into a cluster f*** with the collapse of the Astan army?