The US government could have caused there to be no war in Ukraine. Instead, it took actions that made it more likely to have war.
I disagree. Russia has no real defensive geographical barriers. There are something like 9 defensible geographical choke points that that the old Soviet Union had control of that they lost after the collapse. They have regained control of all but 3 I think. One is the Polish gap. The others are in the Baltic region. One in Romania I think.
Putin and other Russian hardliners see regaining control of the defensive points as an existential necessity to secure Russia's long-term safety. He is willing to expend any amount of blood and treasure to see Russia secure these before he dies. (Which he may see on his near horizon.) He feels Russia has a higher ability to tolerate the casualties than the West and he feels he can grind them down with a conventional war and his nuclear deterrence is sufficient to prevent the West from going non-conventional. He thinks Russia will win by virtue of a higher pain tolerance.
It's of course insanity, but Putin is a dying egomaniacal authoritarian dictator. He has nothing to lose and has delusions of going down in Russia as a hero that restored Russian security for generations. He is willing to spill as much blood as necessary to achieve his legacy. We are in a 1937 moment.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 05, 2022, 04:01:08 PM
I don't think Russia or anyone can afford the cost of a war of any size or length..which is what that would be without nukes
I think he would settle with what he has captured to date and be happy for another 10 years
I don't think there is getting any of it back...see Crimea
I think to sue for peace sooner than later is what should happen and will eventually regardless how long it is dragged out
If nukes are used it's a different animal and the longer it goes on the more the likelihood of that IMO.
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 05, 2022, 04:42:55 PM
40 million dead in WWII left us one lesson we should never forget:
Appeasement of aggression only encourages more aggression. It never buys lasting peace, no matter how bad we want it.
Who wants peace when we are literally creating biowdeapons that can "accidentally" be released on a population, funded by your tax dollars? And then blame the spread on a president whose running for re-election that very year after he helped multiple regions in the middle sign peace treaties. The irony.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: RotBaron on July 05, 2022, 09:49:32 PM
So it’s just printing $ and contributing to more inflation and making the economy worse :bhead
Obviously, most of the elected don’t care.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Busher on July 05, 2022, 09:55:08 PM
Maybe you ought to follow along before you insult 🤷♂️. Those were Trips and Eagler’s words about printing $
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: zack1234 on July 06, 2022, 06:02:36 AM
Have you watched this movie :rofl
You people :rofl
No wonder Biden and Clinton think your clowns
War was not a for gone conclusion in the 1930’s
Origins of the 2nd world war AJP Taylor
I know you lot get annoyed about reading books but give it a try if only once
Obtaining a world view from films and wikidiot :rofl
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 06, 2022, 06:20:36 AM
So peace talks are out of the question?
How do you think you can defeat Russia without starting at least another Vietnam if not another Afghanistan?
Tough talk er mumbling from potato head does nothing
The longer talks are delayed the more Ukraine will lose imo
Weird how none of this was an issue from 2016 to 2020
Replace the 4am orange man mean tweeter with one senile corrupt bought and paid for career " big guy" and poof...the world goes to sheet in 18 months...
Something else to thank china and the very timely release of their bio weapon experiment which provided the perfect setup and cover for all of it.
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 06, 2022, 07:19:39 AM
How do you think you can defeat Russia without starting at least another Vietnam if not another Afghanistan?
Tough talk er mumbling from potato head does nothing
The longer talks are delayed the more Ukraine will lose imo
Weird how none of this was an issue from 2016 to 2020
Replace the 4am orange man mean tweeter with one senile corrupt bought and paid for career " big guy" and poof...the world goes to sheet in 18 months...
Something else to thank china and the very timely release of their bio weapon experiment which provided the perfect setup and cover for all of it.
Eagler
Russias idea of peace talks is UA capitulates and becomes a Russian proxy state while the Russians pillage the country just like the areas they control now and genocide all traces of Ukrainian language and heritage. What kind of person actually calls for that?
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 06, 2022, 07:37:18 AM
So you propose what?
Neverending war? American boots in the ground?
Play proxy war while we all go broke?
The sooner this is stopped and settled the better for the rest of the globe imo
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 06, 2022, 07:51:12 AM
No. Here is what I think would be acceptable terms:
1. Complete and total and immediate withdrawal of all Russian forces from the territory of Ukraine including Crimea and the Donetsk region.
2. Arrangement of reparation payments to compensate the Ukrainian people for loss of life and material destruction suffered as a result of the Russian war of aggression.
3. Regime change in Russia.
4. Admission of Ukraine into NATO to deter future Russian aggression.
That would be a reasonable basis for peace.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 06, 2022, 07:51:23 AM
The sooner this is stopped and settled the better for the rest of the globe imo
Eagler
Very kind of you to throw the Ukrainian people under the thumb of fascism. I never thought that was an American value. My personal opinion is that they deserve to defend themselves as long as they are willing. Letting Putin demilitarize Russia in UA saves the rest of the world from having to deal with an imperial Russia in other places.
The whole thing sucks and is amazingly poor judgement by Putin but it is what it is. On the short term, you are right to say it is better for the world for this to be over but given Russian attitude, it is better it is shut down sooner than later and throwing UA under the bus for short term placation of fascism will likely end the same way it did in the 1930s.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 06, 2022, 08:20:17 AM
But they can't defend themselves so what now?
And Russia will not agree to any of that Cpt so now what?
Just trying to be realistic here...see Vietnam and Afghanistan for an idea how an extended war will go...
You guys heavy in war stocks?
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 06, 2022, 08:33:20 AM
And Russia will not agree to any of that Cpt so now what?
Just trying to be realistic here...see Vietnam and Afghanistan for an idea how an extended war will go...
You guys heavy in war stocks?
Eagler
They can't defend themselves? It seems like they are doing a pretty good job with the resources they have vs what was widely predicted. They will need a lot more ammo and guns to keep up the pace though.
Like I said, there is no winner in this situation between UA and Russia. Even if Russia beats down UA to the point where they both sign a agreement, what then? This has been going on since 2014 and until Russia stops it's genocidal ways, it isn't going to stop. Perhaps pause for the next phase but not stop.
Either the west folds and lets UA be slowly overun or supports UA in defending itself. I don't like the cards dealt, especially now given all the other issues we face but the cards have been dealt and I don't why we should not make the best of those cards.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 06, 2022, 08:48:25 AM
They cannot defend themselves without billions of aid and weapons from other countries..
Without boots on the ground, Russia will never be forced to withdraw
Not sure who is willing to go there...
I am not for another endless war we lose in the end after spending billions on it and that is what I see happening here..
Please describe a scenario that does not happen in
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 06, 2022, 08:52:18 AM
They cannot defend themselves without billions of aid and weapons from other countries..
Without boots on the ground, Russia will never be forced to withdraw
Not sure who is willing to go there...
I am not for another endless war we lose in the end after spending billions on it and that is what I see happening here..
Please describe a scenario that does not happen in
Eagler
They have numbers and the will to fight. If the west did step up instead of the trickle in numbers of aid given now I'm quite sure they would prevail. between that and no aid is a big area of partial support. If we gave them no support then they would slowly be ground down but I don't see how it's possible for Russia to hold UA ground in the long term given how much the Uk's hate them. It's not a stan or Iraq where the population where never on our side and we were stuck throwing good money after bad.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 06, 2022, 08:54:15 AM
And Russia will not agree to any of that Cpt so now what?
We should pour as much support and weapons into Ukraine as possible for how ever long as they wish to resist.
Every Russian they kill is a Russian that will not be shooting at US soldiers in the coming war in Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia.
Ukraine isn't Putin's goal. It is the corridor he has to pass through to get to the Polish Gap (Poland) and the Bessarabia Gap (Moldova\Romania). These geographic choke points are Putin's real goal. All the strategic end goals involve NATO countries. He will invade them one at a time and hope for sufficient useful idiots in the West to argue to just let him have that one ("then he will be satisfied") before he moves on to the next. Eventually that will include the Baltic states of Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania to secure the Baltic coast and link up with Kaliningrad.
We are fast approaching a a series of hard choices:
1. Allow Putin to eventually attack NATO countries and refuse to fulfill our treaty obligation.
2. Withdraw from NATO before we are forced to fulfill our treaty obligation.
3. Wait like a deer in the headlights to be forced to fight Russia once they attack NATO countries. But appeasement is like crack. Once you get a taste of it, it is hard to go cold turkey later.
4. Expend money instead of American lives to give Russia such a bloody nose in Ukraine that they are materially unable to continue their path toward NATO countries.
As long as Ukraine is willing to resist the Russian invasion, it is in our obvious best interest to provide them every weapon we have short of nukes and all the material support we can possibly muster. It is money well spent and a bargain at twice the price if it saves more American lives later.
The only possible path to avoid a larger regional war in Europe is to stop the Russians cold in Ukraine. Stopping them there with money instead of later having to spend American blood.
Unless of course you opt for choices 1 or 2. In that case the US ceases to be a world power. No one will ever take us seriously again and we will have proven ourselves an unreliable treaty partner. The US will become the new France. American Surrender Monkeys will be the new global punchline.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 06, 2022, 09:26:42 AM
So its the US military police force to the rescue once again..
Europe isn't going to do anything as their energy depends on Russia...
Be surely to ask for deployment to Ukraine when you sign up to protect them...nothing more irritating than to hear our retired generals on cable news stating escalation is the only answer...war mongers all of them.
We will see how this ends...maybe
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 06, 2022, 09:33:26 AM
So its the US military police force to the rescue once again..
Europe isn't going to do anything as their energy depends on Russia...
Be surely to ask for deployment to Ukraine when you sign up to protect them...nothing more irritating than to hear our retired generals on cable news stating escalation is the only answer...war mongers all of them.
We will see how this ends...maybe
Eagler
I don't think the US should be sending personnel into the AO beyond some trainers or advisors. This doesn't even have to be in UA either, and shouldn't.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 06, 2022, 10:45:50 AM
I don't think the US should be sending personnel into the AO beyond some trainers or advisors. This doesn't even have to be in UA either, and shouldn't.
Trainers/advisors..
Isn't that the 1st step to our neverending wars?
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 06, 2022, 10:52:38 AM
We fought way too many unjustified wars to feed the establishment. Although I'm deeply concerned about that, there are some just wars and this is one of them. All that equipment we bought to keep fascist Russia in check is being used to do so and it isn't costing us our blood. That is about as good of a deal as we are going to get. The other side of this down the road is UA is moving entirely away from Russian weapon systems and will be buying ours in the future plus they are going to be sending much more of their resources our way instead of towards other places.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: zack1234 on July 06, 2022, 11:38:54 AM
Russias idea of peace talks is UA capitulates and becomes a Russian proxy state while the Russians pillage the country just like the areas they control now and genocide all traces of Ukrainian language and heritage. What kind of person actually calls for that?
You actually wrote that gibberish
Your well and truly CNN and Wikidiot fodder :rofl
You actually believe the garbage your so called media allows you to see :rofl
The Ukrainians are no friend of the US.
They played big shot and got left out to dry.
Thank god for the class system.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: -gg- on July 08, 2022, 11:48:05 PM
In my opinion, we need to do whatever we can to help Ukraine. We cannot allow Putin to scare us into letting him do whatever he wants just because he blackmails us with nuclear threats.
Screw Putin and screw Russia. This is an unjust, unprovoked war. Russia has turned Ukraine into a living hell for those people.
Zelensky is right. They are taking the bullet for Europe. Who's next if Russia succeeds in Ukraine? Have we learned nothing from history?
Our early reaction to the invasion was pathetic. Embarrassing. We show weakness and fear. Oh, Russia says we better stay out or else - so we can't "provoke" Russia by sending Ukraine offensive weapons.
Poland offered to send their Mig 29s and we blocked it. We cowed to a dictator.
Most of that has been corrected now, thank God. I applaud the Biden administration in finding a backbone and sending real help. I think we should to more. As much as we can.
We can't let Russia succeed.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: zack1234 on July 09, 2022, 05:18:02 AM
I laughed at the fantastic troll.
Tell me it is a troll.
For goodness sake it better be.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: RotBaron on July 09, 2022, 05:56:26 AM
Such an honest democratic nation:
Ukraine has a two-part election system, in which if no presidential candidate gains at least 50% of votes, a runoff election will take place between the top two vote-getters.
After no one gained 50% of votes, a runoff took place between Yushchenko and Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych. Yanukovych went on to win the runoff and the election, but the Yushchenko campaign claimed the election was rigged in favor of Yanukovych, claiming he was strongly supported by Russia and that officials there had interfered.
The claims of a rigged election by Russian interference gained traction in the country, :noid :noid resulting in mass protesting taking place across Ukraine. The civil protests became known as the "Orange Revolution" :noid and gained global attention over Russia's influence in Ukraine.
The protests were successful in having a another election between the two candidates, in which Yushchenko won with 52% of votes… Later on more typical bs about Russia was responsible for the assassination attempt, right… - USA Today (to make you libs happy)
An independent nation for 30 years, with a solid record of honesty and integrity in politics and business just ask Joe, Hunter and Hillbillary :aok
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 09, 2022, 06:10:54 AM
All of you that think we should supply unlimited support please write your checks to potato head so he can pay his buddies back ...
Also rush down to your nearest recruiter and sign up for your favorite branch of the military to confirm your loyalty...
Just leave the rest of us out of your latest distraction ..
Waiting for the event that spurs on some 911 type of temporary patriotism that last long enough to pull us fully into another Afghanistan
So odd- out of all the possibilities of conflict it happens in a country which corrupt joe and family have had possible/probable treasonous activities with...amazing
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 08:44:27 AM
Ukraine has a two-part election system, in which if no presidential candidate gains at least 50% of votes, a runoff election will take place between the top two vote-getters.
After no one gained 50% of votes, a runoff took place between Yushchenko and Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych. Yanukovych went on to win the runoff and the election, but the Yushchenko campaign claimed the election was rigged in favor of Yanukovych, claiming he was strongly supported by Russia and that officials there had interfered.
The claims of a rigged election by Russian interference gained traction in the country, :noid :noid resulting in mass protesting taking place across Ukraine. The civil protests became known as the "Orange Revolution" :noid and gained global attention over Russia's influence in Ukraine.
The protests were successful in having a another election between the two candidates, in which Yushchenko won with 52% of votes… Later on more typical bs about Russia was responsible for the assassination attempt, right… - USA Today (to make you libs happy)
An independent nation for 30 years, with a solid record of honesty and integrity in politics and business just ask Joe, Hunter and Hillbillary :aok
There is a lot more to it than that. Yanukovych was indeed a Russian puppet and immediately started disarming the military and cutting ties with the west in favor of Russia. It is fair to say that there was a lot of international meddling.
None of that legitimizes the Russian invasion of 2014 and the constant orchestrating of an insurrection run by the Russians in Donbass from 2014 to the present invasion.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: zack1234 on July 09, 2022, 10:38:57 AM
I thank you should send the youth of the US to the Ukraine to defend Deomcracy.
Lockheed Martin will relish the profits
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 09, 2022, 10:49:11 AM
It would be interesting to research if this same debate was happening in the U.S.A. between September 3, 1939 and December 7, 1941.
It was. America was divided, with a lot of American not wanting to get involved in another war in Europe. FDR had to pull strings and get creative/take political risks in sending aid even.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 09, 2022, 11:21:00 AM
It would be interesting to research if this same debate was happening in the U.S.A. between September 3, 1939 and December 7, 1941.
Yes I would be in the majority then.. it took that surprise surprise surprise attack at pearl to push the majority to war after saving the day already just a short time before ...they hadn't gotten past ww1 losses
It did do wonders for that depression thingy ....
Waiting for American assets to be directly attacked and it somehow tied to this proxy war .. instantly making it less proxy via a burst of sudden if not very long lasting patriotism
Like the OP states ...we have seen it before
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 09, 2022, 11:48:07 AM
You simply prefer to lick the boots of the American authoritarian instead of the Russian one.
A distinction without a different. Bon appetit.
No, I'm simply pointing out the observable facts regarding your behavior. You smear tens of millions of people who did not vote for your guy over the wrong behavior of a small minority of them.
Rather, you throw childish insults at me despite not knowing who I voted for, if anyone, as well as knowing I fully support Ukraine's right to defend itself which directly contradicts your claims.
So far, you have done a great job of making my point while lacking the introspect to realize that you are doing so. That sucks for all of us and I would hope you would be a better man in the future.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 12:02:31 PM
No their main crime was worshipping the Orange Pig-God.
The ones (I believe a majority of Trumpers) that lick the Russian authoritarian's boots are just putting a cherry on top of their pile of excrement.
Don't expect me to give a flip if you like my views or not. If I'm pissing off a Trumper, I'm doing God's work.
One of the fundamental roles of propaganda, and it comes from all sides, is to divide a society into groups and pit those groups against each other. That is how Fascists and other Totalitarian groups gain power. You may call your participation in that behavior "God's Work" but I would hate to think there is any decent or just god who would condone you.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 12:21:18 PM
One of the fundamental roles of propaganda, and it comes from all sides, is to divide a society into groups and pit those groups against each other. That is how Fascists and other Totalitarian groups gain power. You may call your participation in that behavior "God's Work" but I would hate to think there is any decent or just god who would condone you.
Yawn. Try harder Trumper.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 09, 2022, 12:35:54 PM
I'm hardly a "Trumper". I know you don't care and accusing me of such is your only path forward in this conversation since you care so little of morality. I do however, appreciate you going so far out of your way to help me make my point. Hopefully others might take heed of your example and follow a better course.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 12:38:11 PM
I'm hardly a "Trumper". I know you don't care and accusing me of such is your only path forward in this conversation since you care so little of morality. I do however, appreciate you going so far out of your way to help me make my point. Hopefully others might take heed of your example and follow a better course.
Yawn. Try harder Trumper.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 09, 2022, 12:45:39 PM
This pattern of behavior is why this board has stagnated over the years. The sheer irony of those who behave the worst with this childish trolling are often the ones who cast the most stones at others no matter how imaginary.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 12:47:16 PM
This pattern of behavior is why this board has stagnated over the years. The sheer irony of those who behave the worst with this childish trolling are often the ones who cast the most stones at others no matter how imaginary.
Did you vote for Trump in 2016 and 2020?
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 12:48:39 PM
Trump always has a little Putin juice dripping off his chin.
I wonder what Putin has on him? Or maybe Trump just idolizes authoritarian dictators.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Busher on July 09, 2022, 04:16:03 PM
Trump always has a little Putin juice dripping off his chin.
I wonder what Putin has on him? Or maybe Trump just idolizes authoritarian dictators.
Cpt, I think you are on point. Trump idolized dictators of all shapes; but I also suspect that when Deutsche Bank told Trump that his credit was cancelled, it's quite possible that Putin propped up his house of cards. His liability to the German bank exceeded 600 mil.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: RotBaron on July 10, 2022, 04:45:44 AM
If I'm pissing off a Trumper, I'm doing God's work.
I’m pretty sure you’re the only left crying tears for Hillary still.
It’s ok bud, you still have your pig god Michael Moore and Jerry Harris to entertain you. Oh shoot, Biden’s buddy, Harris is now doing 12yrs for child pornography. You’ll just have to settle for Michael Moore.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: FLOOB on July 10, 2022, 05:01:07 AM
If we’re pretty sure that Russia will go nuclear to keep Crimea. And zelensky has stated he plans on liberating Crimea. Why are we financing billions of dollars to make that a reality? The Crimea is not a vital strategic interest to the USA. Crimea is a vital strategic interest to Russia.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 10, 2022, 05:56:22 AM
If we’re pretty sure that Russia will go nuclear to keep Crimea. And zelensky has stated he plans on liberating Crimea. Why are we financing billions of dollars to make that a reality? The Crimea is not a vital strategic interest to the USA. Crimea is a vital strategic interest to Russia.
Ding,ding, ding
We have a winner here folks!
What is the real reason we were sucked into Ukraine?
Either we are the global police force the rest of the world has expected us to be and now have to be to keep the US dollar from falling out of reserve currency status or we care not and shouldn't be involved in every conflict around the world regardless of how bad it is shown on the evening news...
I would like to see someone else handle it for once but sadly NATO is mainly just the United States military and our printed now bloated/inflated useless dollar paying for it all
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: FLOOB on July 10, 2022, 07:27:54 AM
All of Russia's excuses for their initial invasion in 2014, the orchestrating of their rebellion in donbass and this invasion has to do with Muscovite imperialism and not the bs reasons like "de nazisfying" etc.
That really is it.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: FLOOB on July 10, 2022, 07:42:27 AM
Duh. Why did you write that below my quote as if you were responding to something I wrote?
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: FLOOB on July 10, 2022, 08:19:18 AM
Actually the invasion in 2014 was the predictable reaction to Ukraine moving legislation to restrict Russian access to sevestopal. Russia believes Crimea access is vital to the states existence. By threatening to pinch Crimea Ukraine became an existential threat to Russia. Everybody saw this coming. I said years ago and many have said throughout history, one sure way to start a war with Russia is to threaten Crimea. Russia will not back out of a fight for Crimea because, correct or not, they believe it is vital. Vital as in necessary for existence. I don’t believe that but then again I live in the 21st century, the neo soviets running Russia are still living in the 20th. I get helping Ukraine defend themselves against genocide, but after about $50 billion I got to ask, what’s the plan Joe. What’s the desired end state look like? Because it’s starting to look like you, mr president, are looking to go all in on an unwinable game. Because if you think Ukraine is going to stop Russia then you’re as dumb as trump. Btw if anyone here is too young to remember the Cold War, this is what it was. A horribly atrocious inhuman ussr doing ghastly inhuman things to their neighbors and their own people and nobody could do a damn thing about it. We just became sickened onlookers stymieing them in minor ways when and where we could.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 10, 2022, 09:03:36 AM
I get helping Ukraine defend themselves against genocide, but after about $50 billion I got to ask, what’s the plan Joe. What’s the desired end state look like? Because it’s starting to look like you, mr president, are looking to go all in on an unwinable game. Because if you think Ukraine is going to stop Russia then you’re as dumb as trump. Btw if anyone here is too young to remember the Cold War, this is what it was. A horribly atrocious inhuman ussr doing ghastly inhuman things to their neighbors and their own people and nobody could do a damn thing about it. We just became sickened onlookers stymieing them in minor ways when and where we could.
How is UA in an unwinnable position? If anything, it looks to me that Putin has stuck his foot in way too far and his best case scenario is a pyrrhic victory.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 10:54:20 AM
So your retort is to double down? Classy and a slanderer. Your behavior is why places benefit from moderation. Once any sort of moderation goes away the real depth of peoples character bubbles to the surface like scum in the cauldron.
It would be nice to see this place return to the mid 2000's when moderation was based on having a sense of decency and adding to a conversation. It's too bad some people kept pushing it until things went too far the other way and the forum choked to death.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 11:11:10 AM
All anyone needs to do is let you be yourself. I'm simply pointing out how little respect you have for yourself and this community. It's pretty pathetic that you can't at least try to participate in conversations without dragging them into the ground.
How you treat others isn't about them. It is about you.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 11:21:35 AM
Anytime the Murse wants to talk sht to me he is going to get it shoved right back down his rotting throat.
Deal with it, Trumper.
I see you fully embraced the Milo move of accursing everyone who isn't impressed with your behavior as being a "trumper" and continuously trolling them.
Who is "the Murse"? You are hard bent to "shove sht" down anyone's throat for any reason real or imaginary. What I said is accurate. Your behavior is about who you are. There is no justifying bad behavior by accusing others of bad behavior.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 11:34:25 AM
How is UA in an unwinnable position? If anything, it looks to me that Putin has stuck his foot in way too far and his best case scenario is a pyrrhic victory.
Unwinnable regarding Crimea peninsula and probably the separatist areas. Because Russia is not going to let go of Crimea, they’re just not. There’s nothing they won’t do to keep it.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 11, 2022, 05:25:44 AM
Unwinnable regarding Crimea peninsula and probably the separatist areas. Because Russia is not going to let go of Crimea, they’re just not. There’s nothing they won’t do to keep it.
That is probably true. War isn't a board game in that winning only generally happens when your opponent can no longer continue fighting. Some people think that once one side achieves certain objectives the war is magically over. Once Russia started the war, UA gets a vote too.
Likewise, the win conditions for UA are when Russia decides it needs to negotiate because it can't really continue and the options for UA are not likely to improve if they don't reach some sort of agreement at that point.
Just like war is politics, victory is consensus that going forward is unlikely to yield much better results.
When you say winning is impossible the question is what winning conditions are and to what degree. So, I don't see how we can say winning is impossible for either side until we understand what winning means to either side. Most of the time winning the best possible outcome given the circumstances and the circumstances are still dynamic. UA lost ground and took high casualties in the Donetsk pocket recently but gained ground in the Karkiv and Kerson fronts. They knocked out upwards of 40 ammo dumps, Command centers, large barracks and other high value targets in just the last week alone. They have been conducting a building offensive near Kerson that is still ramping up. So, they are not out of the fight at this point.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: FLOOB on July 11, 2022, 06:41:17 AM
Well consider your news sources, everyday the Ukrainian news reports on their victories yet the Russians keep gaining territory. They don’t talk about how they’re loosing 1,000 fighters a day etc.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 11, 2022, 06:54:33 AM
Well consider your news sources, everyday the Ukrainian news reports on their victories yet the Russians keep gaining territory. They don’t talk about how they’re loosing 1,000 fighters a day etc.
I spend a lot of time monitoring the UA situation daily. There are a lot of biased pieces of information being put forth and you do need to take everything with a grain of salt. That goes for all sides where information is coming from. Both sides got beat up in the Donbass pocket and now that battle is over. My point to you above is that you can't say something is unwinnable if you don't define what winning actually means. In this case, neither side is likely to achieve their best case scenario of what winning can be.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 11, 2022, 07:23:29 AM
Well consider your news sources, everyday the Ukrainian news reports on their victories yet the Russians keep gaining territory. They don’t talk about how they’re loosing 1,000 fighters a day etc.
Our newscast are one sided, exaggerated to make excuses for the potato head admin and bias to try to make them look like heroes..
No questions to corrupt joe on an exit plan...no one cares as to be patriotic is to support this unwinnable war..as winning has been defined as to defeat Russia or at minimum withdrawal from occupied lands...otherwise you're called names like some are doing here...
Longer it drags on the more likely it will escalate into more than the proxy war it is today
Just don't trust the government to make the correct decisions anymore...
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 11, 2022, 08:23:10 AM
Our newscast are one sided, exaggerated to make excuses for the potato head admin and bias to try to make them look like heroes..
No questions to corrupt joe on an exit plan...no one cares as to be patriotic is to support this unwinnable war..as winning has been defined as to defeat Russia or at minimum withdrawal from occupied lands...otherwise you're called names like some are doing here...
Longer it drags on the more likely it will escalate into more than the proxy war it is today
Just don't trust the government to make the correct decisions anymore...
Eagler
I'm fully with you in the lack of faith in our governments competence. I wish it wasn't the case but I can't in good faith believe differently. It's also true that our MSM has been cheer leading an agenda for years and it has only gotten worse for the most part. It is also true that some alternative media sources are just as biased in other directions. What disappoints me is how people tend to pick a side and discount any other information. In my view, we should all be focused on doing the best we can to keep our republic as functional as possible for ours and our children's sake.
Again with the "this is unwinnable" defeatism. I personally feel that Russia's invasion of UA is one of very few clear cut just wars we have seen. The Ukrainians have a right not to be effectively geocided by Muscovite fascism. And us helping them survive while demilitarizing a fascist Russia is good for us and the world. The only way Russia is going to stop in the long term whether it be UA or Latvia, Poland etc is if the societal behavior they are become is no longer able to exist and that will take a collapse of the concepts that drives it.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 11, 2022, 08:58:23 AM
Not being defeatist as much as being realistic
When putin is pushed to use a tactical nuke what do you do then?
Do you think he will declare defeat before he plays that card?
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 11, 2022, 09:09:41 AM
When putin is pushed to use a tactical nuke what do you do then?
Do you think he will declare defeat before he plays that card?
Eagler
Being realistic means looking at the overall situation based on facts while cutting through the vast volumes of propaganda from all directions. That is tough to do.
Tossing nukes is one of the "win" scenarios for Putin. So far, he has decided that the downsides are not worth the try. It really is hard to say if he will get to that point. No one knows if he is willing to go that path some time in the future. So, saying that Putin will certainly prevail based on that possibility does not mean UA can't reach a position of "winning" no matter what they do.
In reality, neither side can "win" in the sense of getting more out of the process than what it costs them. They are both certainly going to pay a very heavy price to get where ever they end up. Putin had a chance early on with the initial push to decapitate UA's government but it failed badly for a number of reasons, primarily Russian incompetence. Now both sides are stuck paying a brutal price hoping that continuing will yield better results than their current situation.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 11, 2022, 09:22:45 AM
Being realistic means looking at the overall situation based on facts while cutting through the vast volumes of propaganda from all directions. That is tough to do.
Tossing nukes is one of the "win" scenarios for Putin. So far, he has decided that the downsides are not worth the try. It really is hard to say if he will get to that point. No one knows if he is willing to go that path some time in the future. So, saying that Putin will certainly prevail based on that possibility does not mean UA can't reach a position of "winning" no matter what they do.
In reality, neither side can "win" in the sense of getting more out of the process than what it costs them. They are both certainly going to pay a very heavy price to get where ever they end up. Putin had a chance early on with the initial push to decapitate UA's government but it failed badly for a number of reasons, primarily Russian incompetence. Now both sides are stuck paying a brutal price hoping that continuing will yield better results than their current situation.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the current US government is just as fascist, if not more than Russia. No one went after the US when we invaded Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Afghanistan, and all of the other countries since 1990 and beyond. Russia is simply tired of the US funding bio terrorism and human trafficking in Ukraine among other things. Ukraine has been a proxy for the NWO, which is why it's not a NATO country because then it would be breaking the rules of war. There is reason why Europe isn't really helping Ukraine while the US sends 60 billion to them. The US is the one funding fascist like Kolomoisky and his Nazi Azov brigade who bomb their own northern Ukrainians to make Russia look like the evil ones. None of you understand what is really going on, heck, Putin and the Rothschilds could be playing both sides here and this was meant to happen to crush the world economy in order to rain in the NWO agenda. That being said, I believe that Putin and Russia are tired of the globalist agenda trying to force countries into their agenda. Too many leaders have been assassinated for undermining that agenda. It's about time someone stand up to them. Putin isn't interested in going after Poland or Latvia. They are fighting the Ukrainian corruption that has not done a damn thing for the Ukrainian people. The Russians were not going around killing Ukrainian citizens. It's unfortunate for the citizens of course. But I dare say that the NWO asked for it and disregarded Putins speeches about corruption in Ukraine and therefore paid the price. If you want to look at both sides, then you will understand that Ukraine is just a proxy for an even more corrupt group of billionaires funding the NWO global government and using bio terrorism to threaten the world to bend to their agenda.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 09:30:23 AM
Hate to burst your bubble, but the current US government is just as fascist, if not more than Russia. No one went after the US when we invaded Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Afghanistan, and all of the other countries since 1990 and beyond. Russia is simply tired of the US funding bio terrorism and human trafficking in Ukraine among other things. Ukraine has been a proxy for the NWO, which is why it's not a NATO country because then it would be breaking the rules of war. There is reason why Europe isn't really helping Ukraine while the US sends 60 billion to them. The US is the one funding fascist like Kolomoisky and his Nazi Azov brigade who bomb their own northern Ukrainians to make Russia look like the evil ones. None of you understand what is really going on, heck, Putin and the Rothschilds could be playing both sides here and this was meant to happen to crush the world economy in order to rain in the NWO agenda. That being said, I believe that Putin and Russia are tired of the globalist agenda trying to force countries into their agenda. Too many leaders have been assassinated for undermining that agenda. It's about time someone stand up to them. Putin isn't interested in going after Poland or Latvia. They are fighting the Ukrainian corruption that has not done a damn thing for the Ukrainian people. The Russians were not going around killing Ukrainian citizens. It's unfortunate for the citizens of course. But I dare say that the NWO asked for it and disregarded Putins speeches about corruption in Ukraine and therefore paid the price. If you want to look at both sides, then you will understand that Ukraine is just a proxy for an even more corrupt group of billionaires funding the NWO global government and using bio terrorism to threaten the world to bend to their agenda.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 11, 2022, 09:46:16 AM
I won't even mention what Ukraine is doing with Stem cell and organ research and using dead babies and kids for "science". No wonder the left wants Abortions so badly. Anti aging research from stem cells while simultaneously curbing population growth and trying to turn the west Gay so they stop producing children. It's all about population control in the minds of Bill Gates and his Euginics followers. Just look at what he's said in his Ted talks.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 09:47:31 AM
I won't even mention what Ukraine is doing with Stem cell and organ research and using dead babies and kids for "science". No wonder the left wants Abortions so badly. Anti aging research from stem cells while simultaneously curbing population growth and trying to turn the west Gay so they stop producing children. It's all about population control in the minds of Bill Gates and his Euginics followers. Just look at what he's said in his Ted talks.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the current US government is just as fascist, if not more than Russia. No one went after the US when we invaded Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Afghanistan, and all of the other countries since 1990 and beyond. Russia is simply tired of the US funding bio terrorism and human trafficking in Ukraine among other things. Ukraine has been a proxy for the NWO, which is why it's not a NATO country because then it would be breaking the rules of war. There is reason why Europe isn't really helping Ukraine while the US sends 60 billion to them. The US is the one funding fascist like Kolomoisky and his Nazi Azov brigade who bomb their own northern Ukrainians to make Russia look like the evil ones. None of you understand what is really going on, heck, Putin and the Rothschilds could be playing both sides here and this was meant to happen to crush the world economy in order to rain in the NWO agenda. That being said, I believe that Putin and Russia are tired of the globalist agenda trying to force countries into their agenda. Too many leaders have been assassinated for undermining that agenda. It's about time someone stand up to them. Putin isn't interested in going after Poland or Latvia. They are fighting the Ukrainian corruption that has not done a damn thing for the Ukrainian people. The Russians were not going around killing Ukrainian citizens. It's unfortunate for the citizens of course. But I dare say that the NWO asked for it and disregarded Putins speeches about corruption in Ukraine and therefore paid the price. If you want to look at both sides, then you will understand that Ukraine is just a proxy for an even more corrupt group of billionaires funding the NWO global government and using bio terrorism to threaten the world to bend to their agenda.
Look dude, I'm trying to have a rational conversation and you have to come drop a turd on it. There are some basic facts you and I can agree such as the US slide towards Authoritarianism but most of your "information" is straight up Russian propaganda which is insulting to all of us. I get that your mind has to tie all happenings in the world into your religious believes about the NWO stuff but the actual facts just don't fit your contrived narrative.
I'm not going to follow the Milo/Arlo/ CPtTrips path of destructive polarization because they are also even more profound poster childs of what is wrong with this country but let's just agree to disagree on your world views.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 11, 2022, 10:54:17 AM
Look dude, I'm trying to have a rational conversation and you have to come drop a turd on it. There are some basic facts you and I can agree such as the US slide towards Authoritarianism but most of your "information" is straight up Russian propaganda which is insulting to all of us. I get that your mind has to tie all happenings in the world into your religious believes about the NWO stuff but the actual facts just don't fit your contrived narrative.
I'm not going to follow the Milo/Arlo/ CPtTrips path of destructive polarization because they are also even more profound poster childs of what is wrong with this country but let's just agree to disagree on your world views.
It's not propaganda, it's the truth, you are just too naive to look into it. Most of it came straight from Hunters laptop. You cannot deny it. You cannot deny miobiota or what ever the hell name of it he was funding over there. There is a reason why the Dutch farmers are protesting in mass now against the EU. Can you not see the bigger picture? Why do you chose to only see each event as something separate. Do you not understand this is all connected? I just dont understand how you cannot see all of these organizations and how they fit into the bigger picture here.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 11, 2022, 11:07:10 AM
Can you explain to me what she means by "NWO for democratic countries?" It very much has do with Russia and Ukraine.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 11, 2022, 11:07:35 AM
It's not propaganda, it's the truth, you are just too naive to look into it. Most of it came straight from Hunters laptop. You cannot deny it. You cannot deny miobiota or what ever the hell name of it he was funding over there. There is a reason why the Dutch farmers are protesting in mass now against the EU. Can you not see the bigger picture? Why do you chose to only see each event as something separate. Do you not understand this is all connected? I just dont understand how you cannot see all of these organizations and how they fit into the bigger picture here.
You saying obviously false things does not make them truth. I just don't understand how you don't do proper due diligence and repeat propaganda as if it actually true. I just don't understand how you tie pieces of truth into false narratives just because you have an emotional need to do so. Sorry dude, I do put a lot of effort into getting my facts straight and you simply repeat a narrative fed to you. That really is about it. I'm OK with you exercising your freedom of speech, even if it is not true. That is your right to do so still. But don't demand others accept your opinions as facts. You have a right to your opinions but you don't have a right to create your own facts and demand others believe them.
So, let's agree to disagree and move on.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 11, 2022, 11:19:03 AM
You saying obviously false things does not make them truth. I just don't understand how you don't do proper due diligence and repeat propaganda as if it actually true. I just don't understand how you tie pieces of truth into false narratives just because you have an emotional need to do so. Sorry dude, I do put a lot of effort into getting my facts straight and you simply repeat a narrative fed to you. That really is about it. I'm OK with you exercising your freedom of speech, even if it is not true. That is your right to do so still. But don't demand others accept your opinions as facts. You have a right to your opinions but you don't have a right to create your own facts and demand others believe them.
So, let's agree to disagree and move on.
What is not true that I said?
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 11:20:54 AM
It's not propaganda, it's the truth, you are just too naive to look into it.
Dude. Don't give into give in to RabidRabbit. He is just an operative for the Army of the Sheeple. He just wants to suppress your dropping of Truth Bombs because he is probably working for the NWO to suppress Patriots like you from telling the truth. If they can intimidate Patriots into silence then you might as well line up to get your arm laser scanned with termination number and report to the re-education camps that are being passed off as fenced FEMA camps setup in Walmart parking lots.
He is trying to silence you. I guess it's your choice if you want to crawl a way with your tail between your legs or fight for America and the Constitution.
Remember, The Storm is coming.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: zack1234 on July 11, 2022, 11:24:44 AM
The Ukraine :rofl
The peasants still falling for this garbage
Russia will win..fact
Next year you clowns will have another drama
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 11:29:43 AM
And English pies suck gas out of a dead moose's arse that's been lying out in the hot sun for 3 days.
Fact.
You would have thought when the French subjugated you in 1066 they would have taught you a little about cooking in between raping your wives and mothers.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 11, 2022, 11:29:43 AM
Dude. Don't give into give in to RabidRabbit. He is just an operative for the Army of the Sheeple. He just wants to suppress your dropping of Truth Bombs because he is probably working for the NWO to suppress Patriots like you from telling the truth. If they can intimidate Patriots into silence then you might as well line up to get your arm laser scanned with termination number and report to the re-education camps that are being passed off as fenced FEMA camps setup in Walmart parking lots.
He is trying to silence you. I guess it's your choice if you want to crawl a way with your tail between your legs or fight for America and the Constitution.
Remember, The Storm is coming.
While I disagree with him I can also do so respectfully because he seems to sincerely believe in his positions. That he does so regardless of facts that contradict them is why I don't want to argue with him. I can disagree with someone and respect them at the same time.
That puts him far ahead of you and some others who have zero respect for themselves and resort despicable trolling at the expense of the community. There is no justification for your behavior and your contempt for everyone here is entirely about who you are and no one else.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 11:31:04 AM
While I disagree with him I can also do so respectfully because he seems to sincerely believe in his positions. That he does so regardless of facts that contradict them is why I don't want to argue with him. I can disagree with someone and respect them at the same time.
That puts him far ahead of you and some others who have zero respect for themselves and resort despicable trolling at the expense of the community. There is no justification for your behavior and your contempt for everyone here is entirely about who you are and no one else.
OK Trumper.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 11:33:57 AM
Looks like you spanked DmonSlayer into silence. Some MAGA warrior.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 11, 2022, 11:34:43 AM
Looks like you spanked DmonSlayer into silence. Some MAGA warrior.
What did I say that was Russian propaganda? I respect people and their arguments, I'm just trying to see why they don't see/understand the same information I am regarding what I am posting. I don't just come out with stuff out of thin air.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 11:38:40 AM
What did I say that was Russian propaganda? I respect people and their arguments, I'm just trying to see why they don't see/understand the same information I am regarding what I am posting. I don't just come out with stuff out of thin air.
Looks like you have him rattled and confused, RabidRabbit.
NWO 1 : Patriots 0
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 11, 2022, 11:41:08 AM
What did I say that was Russian propaganda? I respect people and their arguments, I'm just trying to see why they don't see/understand the same information I am regarding what I am posting. I don't just come out with stuff out of thin air.
He is trolling you. The worst thing you can do is feed the troll.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 11:44:20 AM
He is trolling you. The worst thing you can do is feed the troll.
Now he is trying to use clever reverse psychology to silence you.
He's all over you like a spider monkey.
You're helpless prey.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: zack1234 on July 12, 2022, 12:23:00 AM
The Ukraine :rofl
The US inflation :rofl
Biden the President :rofl
Democracy in the US is a pantomine
The UK has got rid of its PM due to the fact that a homo grabbed another homosexulets rear end in the free bar in the Houses of Parliament. :rofl
Democracy in the UK is a bigger pantomime.
Don Lemon and Kimmel are a good source of information
Gays for the Ukraine is my moto :)
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: RotBaron on July 12, 2022, 04:57:35 AM
Is that Ukraine homosexual combat unit up front and taking Russian scalps or are they holding the rear?
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: zack1234 on July 13, 2022, 01:31:58 AM
:rofl
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 13, 2022, 07:24:54 AM
If it drags out long enough maybe you can watch your grandchildren get shipped over to Ukraine or wherever it is by then...to die for nothing like our last wars..
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 13, 2022, 11:16:30 AM
If it drags out long enough maybe you can watch your grandchildren get shipped over to Ukraine or wherever it is by then...to die for nothing like our last wars..
Eagler
We sure have participated in too many unnecessary wars and executed poorly. At least the UA situation is pretty clear cut just war for the Ukrainians.
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: zack1234 on July 13, 2022, 11:28:01 AM
How many children died in the Yemen and Saudi war?
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: Eagler on July 13, 2022, 12:17:03 PM
Yes I agree its a heck of a war if you are Ukraine
Not so much for the rest of us unless paying record gas prices is supposed to help the Ukrainian ppl simehow..
It is just an excuse some use for the mess we are in today and the longer they can keep it going the longer some will buy that excuse
As Zach states, surprised blm is rioting over it for equal wartime involvement
Eagler
Title: Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
Post by: rabbidrabbit on July 13, 2022, 12:22:45 PM
Yes I agree its a heck of a war if you are Ukraine
Not so much for the rest of us unless paying record gas prices is supposed to help the Ukrainian ppl simehow..
It is just an excuse some use for the mess we are in today and the longer they can keep it going the longer some will buy that excuse Eagler
Why not separate things out. For example,
I think we can agree that Ukraine is fighting a just fight. That helping them is in our best interest as Russian fascism has been on the rise and letting them demilitarize themselves in UA is a win for everyone. That the current US admin is jacked up in almost every possible way.
Those 3 things are not contradictory. For example, I'm fine with giving UA weapons and other aid but want to ensure there is accountability to reduce graft which is widespread in our gov.