Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: diaster on September 12, 2023, 12:16:47 PM
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Just voicing observations is all - Logged in Sunday morning 9am PST 9 players in game. I have seen over 100 players twice in two months where i used to see 200+
Typically in the evenings I see less than 50 and usually less than 40. Had to fly 20 minutes in a jet to find a fight one night. Another night, I was the only Bish logged on.
Sad to say this game is a far cry from what it used to be.
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Most MA action is between 7Pm-11PM and really mostly just a coupe hours inside there. I don’t mind it. I just find something else to do in game or altogether.
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9pm est usually has >100 in ma
Eagler
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Most fighters have gone elsewhere for quicker and cheaper fighter action. Lack of players means lack of fights which makes less players. The morning squad hit crew has made playing in the AM no fun. Then both sides attack bish for the rest of the day generally. Too many guys in easy mode planes over saturating the fight. Flying 10 minutes to a base and getting 15k, only to get ganged quickly because they don't know ACM, SA, and have to fight vets in fast east mode planes probably discourages many. It's too hard of a game for people and many don't have the patience to fly out and get alt so they go to War Thunder or Il2 so they can spawn right in in external mode. Not what I want Aces High to be, but that's generally the issue for some. I think a lot of what you have left mid day are retirees who enjoy playing by themselves and don't want too much action other themselves, yet for some reason want to play online.
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The game would get a lot more population if it wasn't subscription based, if it was made to be a free game, with options to donate it would probably attract new players.
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The game would get a lot more population if it wasn't subscription based, if it was made to be a free game, with options to donate it would get a lot more population.
:headscratch:
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The game would get a lot more population if it wasn't subscription based, if it was made to be a free game, with options to donate it would get a lot more population.
(https://store-images.s-microsoft.com/image/apps.1756.70766750656393858.104bec03-84d0-4bcd-a041-5116e9a7aea4.1bf3ea78-3dff-4473-9e4e-b22188082de6?q=90&w=480&h=270)
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The game would get a lot more population if it wasn't subscription based, if it was made to be a free game, with options to donate it would probably attract new players.
riiiight... :rolleyes:
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The game would get a lot more population if it wasn't subscription based, if it was made to be a free game, with options to donate it would probably attract new players.
You should make a game and make it free.
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You guys are responding to a guy who just registered with one post. I truly wish fish took bait like that.
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You guys are responding to a guy who just registered with one post. I truly wish fish took bait like that.
It was a legitimate thought, not bait. If you look at the discussion about this game on Steam you'll notice a lot of people were disappointed that it was a subscription-based game, thus not playing it. Personally I don't have a problem paying the subscription, I've played this game on and off for a number of years and still enjoy it. But for a game as old as it is, new players aren't going to pay a subscription, so if the community really wants to see people more active it's something that needs to be addressed I would imagine. I get the feeling this is an unpopular opinion, but I would like to hear you come up with a better way to attract new players.
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It was a legitimate thought, not bait. If you look at the discussion about this game on Steam you'll notice a lot of people were disappointed that it was a subscription-based game, thus not playing it. Personally I don't have a problem paying the subscription, I've played this game on and off for a number of years and still enjoy it. But for a game as old as it is, new players aren't going to pay a subscription, so if the community really wants to see people more active it's something that needs to be addressed I would imagine. I get the feeling this is an unpopular opinion, but I would like to hear you come up with a better way to attract new players.
Play for 30 days and get 2 hours free with a clean prostitute
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Play for 30 days and get 2 hours free with a clean prostitute
Player base just quadrupled
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120 at 9pm est in ma last night when I logged..
Plenty of hordes to fight as a rook..auto assigned..had knits and bish attacking them in droves and not each other..
Definitely worth the $15 a month...what is that? One starbuck coffee and danish?
Choices
Eagler
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You should make a game and make it free.
Guess you never heard of fortnite? :bolt:
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My guess is most spend more than $15 a month on those "free" games purchasing power ups, coins, whatever to move quickly up in the game..
I don't think it is the money but the time needed to spend in AH to get good at it.
This generation doesn't have the patience..they want it all now without having to put in any time to actually earn/learn it
Eagler
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Guess you never heard of fortnite? :bolt:
Oh is that his game? Maybe try reading comprehension.
You should know it is far from free. The makers of the game sell in game cheats. If you don't buy, you have little chance.
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120 at 9pm est in ma last night when I logged..
Great for US based players. But with the overall decline of numbers, all those outside the US are quite screwed now. EU primetime numbers are now between 30 and 40 pilots, during our daytime (late night in the US) the game often basically stops. It's getting big EW arena vibes, in a bad way.
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120 at 9pm est in ma last night when I logged..
Plenty of hordes to fight as a rook..auto assigned..had knits and bish attacking them in droves and not each other..
Definitely worth the $15 a month...what is that? One starbuck coffee and danish?
Choices
Eagler
For people like us $15 is no big deal, we enjoy the game and gladly pay. However somebody who stumbles across this game for the first time wouldnt want to pay the $15 a month to play a 20 year old game, when you can hop on war thunder for free.
Half of you guys are old enough to be my dad and the other half my grandfather, from a younger person's perspective this game is ancient so it would take something special to attract new players. I was born in 98, some of yall have been playing longer than I've been able to read.
Regardless I love the game and I enjoy playing with a dedicated player base.
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For people like us $15 is no big deal, we enjoy the game and gladly pay. However somebody who stumbles across this game for the first time wouldnt want to pay the $15 a month to play a 20 year old game, when you can hop on war thunder for free.
Half of you guys are old enough to be my dad and the other half my grandfather, from a younger person's perspective this game is ancient so it would take something special to attract new players. I was born in 98, some of yall have been playing longer than I've been able to read.
Regardless I love the game and I enjoy playing with a dedicated player base.
I'm not sure how to switch to microtransactions the way the game is designed now.
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I'm not sure how to switch to microtransactions the way the game is designed now.
Drop the subscription, make it free to play, add a PayPal link
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Drop the subscription, make it free to play, add a PayPal link
That would never work. How many folks would actually tip, when there's absolute no necessity to do so? And how much would they tip in the first place? I very much doubt even the most basic costs of infrastructure would be covered by this, not to speak of any potential future development.
The begging approach will never work with such a game, and as pointed out before, it's not made for any 'microtransaction' stuff either.
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That would never work. How many folks would actually tip, when there's absolute no necessity to do so? And how much would they tip in the first place? I very much doubt even the most basic costs of infrastructure would be covered by this, not to speak of any potential future development.
The begging approach will never work with such a game, and as pointed out before, it's not made for any 'microtransaction' stuff either.
I think you'd be surprised how many people donate. It was just an idea, I'm sure you're right, it probably wouldn't work. Just thinking of ways to attract new players is all, is the free trial still a thing???
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is the free trial still a thing???
Yes.
But when AH launched on steam, we had many thousands of players trying the game. Almost no one subscribed after trial period.
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But when AH launched on steam, we had many thousands of players trying the game. Almost no one subscribed after trial period.
Well that kinda points out our problem then...
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Drop the subscription, make it free to play, add a PayPal link
Free to play games have a pay to play aspect, faster leveling, unique items etc.
This game is not set up for such a thing. No one is going to donate for something that they get access to everything in game already.
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Yes.
But when AH launched on steam, we had many thousands of players trying the game. Almost no one subscribed after trial period.
Like 40,000 in 90 days or something like that. HT said he had "around" 1% conversion rate. Which might be below 1% depending on rounding up or down.
Fanbois will claim that Steam is just a bunch of twitch kiddies not flight sim fans. That is a large percentage. But millions of dollars of IL2 are sold through Steam. Tens of thousands of DCS players are introduced through steam. There are tens of thousands of serious flight sim fans on Steam. If the product clicked with the audience, you would have gotten more than ~1% conversion.
That's why it is pointless to "just buy tv ads". You first need to improve your conversion rate on your normal organic traffic. If you don't do that, spending money on tv ads is just whizzing in the wind. HT would love to pour many into ads once he figures out haw to achieve 10% conversion. Until he can figure out what he needs to improve to achieve a reasonable conversion rate, it is just burning money pointlessly. You will just advertise your way into bankruptcy.
So players can make videos, and tell their friends, go to airshows and hand out t-shirts and bumpers stickers until they drop and it won't help much. Once eyes are on product, it is losing to the competition.
The other tactic is to just not worry about that. If the current player count is enough to keep the lights on, just manage the tail end of the life cycle and keep it stable and breaking bugs fixed and don't risk tipping the boat with new development. It's sad to see AH move into that phase of its life cycle, but it is a rational decision. For us its a game, for HT it's his livelihood.
It's not about getting back to 600 players again. It's about extending the current glide slope for as long as possible. Fair enough.
[Edit] Correct me if I'm wrong, Lusche, but it seems to me the player loss rate has flattened noticeably the last couple of years. I think it is down to the durable lifers. They'll probably stay until they drop without a single new line of code. You just have to ignore the occasional whining. ;)
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Like 40,000 in 90 days or something like that. HT said he had "around" 1% conversion rate. Which might be below 1% depending on rounding up or down.
Fanbois will claim that Steam is just a bunch of twitch kiddies not flight sim fans. That is a large percentage. But millions of dollars of IL2 are sold through Steam. Tens of thousands of DCS players are introduced through steam. There are tens of thousands of serious flight sim fans on Steam. If the product clicked with the audience, you would have gotten more than ~1% conversion.
That's why it is pointless to "just buy tv ads". You first need to improve your conversion rate on your normal organic traffic. If you don't do that, spending money on tv ads is just whizzing in the wind. HT would love to pour many into ads once he figures out haw to achieve 10% conversion. Until he can figure out what he needs to improve to achieve a reasonable conversion rate, it is just burning money pointlessly. You will just advertise your way into bankruptcy.
So players can make videos, and tell their friends, go to airshows and hand out t-shirts and bumpers stickers until they drop and it won't help much. Once eyes are on product, it is losing to the competition.
The other tactic is to just not worry about that. If the current player count is enough to keep the lights on, just manage the tail end of the life cycle and keep it stable and breaking bugs fixed and don't risk tipping the boat with new development. It's sad to see AH move into that phase of its life cycle, but it is a rational decision. For us its a game, for HT it's his livelihood.
It's not about getting back to 600 players again. It's about extending the current glide slope for as long as possible. Fair enough.
[Edit] Correct me if I'm wrong, Lusche, but it seems to me the player loss rate has flattened noticeably the last couple of years. I think it is down to the durable lifers. They'll probably stay until they drop without a single new line of code. You just have to ignore the occasional whining. ;)
Sadly this is about spot on.
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for what its worth, on euro times things are pretty bleak. 9pm EST is 3am here so we're slowly dying out here.
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I'm finding the same thing at 6/7pm Eastern US. I gave up flying weekend mornings a while ago since there wasn't enough action, and I'm finding the same thing happening now in the early evenings. This tour has been brutally quiet on the Knights side so far. Hopefully it's just a September thing and the cold weather coming will bump the numbers back up a bit.
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I always thought a free subset of planes and vehicles would be a way to have a "Free" game but still keeping the subscriptions. 2 or 3 mid level fighters, a buff, an attack bomber and a couple of vehicles free all the time in the Melee arena so new players can play when ever. You want all the hot rods and bells and whistles, pay the subscription.
As for Steam, I dont think HTC was ready for that. I dont think they thought they were going to get the numbers that they did. The VR stuff was just starting out in the game and wasnt fully ready and what many believed was a "bait and switch" thing with the "Free" only being two weeks.
To spice up the game it would only take Hitech a bit of time to twist and tweak things. How hard would it be to rotate all the bases on a map 90 degree and then recompile it? Imagine the horror of players expecting a base being lined up one way only to be in a totally wrong angle. Could the AH2 towns be added back in? Same tile size right? Swap a few of them out and recompile the map. Even easier, just change how much tonnage it takes to drop VH, or FH, or both.
A lot of things can be tweaked and changed, and changed back week or month after month just to keep things a bit more fresh. Heck I'd be ok with him just saying "guess what I did" and run the map and see how long it takes to figure out what he changed.
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I agree with the limited free planeset after the two week trial. Just enough to set the hook and learn the game, while not enticing enough for us old players to cancel and fly for free.
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I always thought a free subset of planes and vehicles would be a way to have a "Free" game but still keeping the subscriptions. 2 or 3 mid level fighters, a buff, an attack bomber and a couple of vehicles free all the time in the Melee arena so new players can play when ever. You want all the hot rods and bells and whistles, pay the subscription.
As for Steam, I dont think HTC was ready for that. I dont think they thought they were going to get the numbers that they did. The VR stuff was just starting out in the game and wasnt fully ready and what many believed was a "bait and switch" thing with the "Free" only being two weeks.
To spice up the game it would only take Hitech a bit of time to twist and tweak things. How hard would it be to rotate all the bases on a map 90 degree and then recompile it? Imagine the horror of players expecting a base being lined up one way only to be in a totally wrong angle. Could the AH2 towns be added back in? Same tile size right? Swap a few of them out and recompile the map. Even easier, just change how much tonnage it takes to drop VH, or FH, or both.
A lot of things can be tweaked and changed, and changed back week or month after month just to keep things a bit more fresh. Heck I'd be ok with him just saying "guess what I did" and run the map and see how long it takes to figure out what he changed.
These are all killer ideas, hopefully the right people see this
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I agree with the limited free planeset after the two week trial. Just enough to set the hook and learn the game, while not enticing enough for us old players to cancel and fly for free.
He has already said no to free planes
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,406093.15.html
Eagler
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He has already said no to free planes
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,406093.15.html
Eagler
Free early war planes would be great for the game imo, but bring in more dweebs and trolls probably, ain't no one gonna tear it down in early war plane, but gives people a chance to learn the game and stick around, probably subscribing one day.
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Free early war planes would be great for the game imo, but bring in more dweebs and trolls probably, ain't no one gonna tear it down in early war plane, but gives people a chance to learn the game and stick around, probably subscribing one day.
But he said no.
So here is the rub; the kinds of things that might actually make a difference are not acceptable for various reasons.
The things that are acceptable, are not going to make any difference.
No skin batch release or Scenario or FSO is going to put 600 players back in the arena.
Adding some obscure French fighter is not going to put 600 players back in the arena.
A new player made map is not going to put 600 players back in the arena.
A player made video is not going to put 600 players back in the arena.
Etc. Etc.
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He argues fun in that post. Fun requires players. New players don't want to pay for this.
New players don't like what they see, a lack of people. Lack of action..
Do you see how they relate
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What kept many Euro-TZ players like me - even though numbers in the arenas were low - it was the scenarios playable at Europe-friendly TZ.
To get to a scenario starting after midnight was not working for most of us.
Now we are gone, and many have found new homes in other sims.
I think a free subset of planes would increase population in arenas ( let's say ENY15-20 and up), and increase interest in subscribing if you get hooked on the game.
One more thing, development of the game ceased many years ago, and players took notice of it, and play with friends much because of the community it has built and maybe not only because of the game itself.
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People here making suggestions that would increase player numbers with the same ideas for the last 15 years.
Times have changed, players have changed, AcesHigh does not update with the times and probably never will to entice the new young sim pilot who; wide eyed and as dumb as rocks, flys with a mouse, has only "really ever played War Thunder", and considers that shower of toejame the "Pinnacle of Simulating Air War".
The old guard clutching tightly at their Win7 1Gig graphics cards are keeping the lights on with their sub moneys but they are aging, moving on with life and times, inevitably dying away from the game and the young are not interested in bringing their friends into the arenas to fly around in empty sky. There's no more walking talking living museum like vets who lived through WW2 for the young-uns to look up to, learn from and soak in wisdom, there's no more realistic looking raids people like ET37 ran outside FSO for the main arena rat to intercept or partake. FSO, huh, which the young do not know exists or understand what FSO even means in 2 weeks So..
Players numbers are slowly hemorrhaging, the arena numbers boosting when the still alive yet curious AH-vets, away for 5+ years, you know; the old names, the old top 10 or so get nostalgic and pop back in from time to time, re-living their past glories tail whipping and beating down on the new generation like nothing has changed for a tour or 3 then going back to life and triple A titles.. but still our game will fade away, though gracefully, when there is not enough energy left in it's remaining subscribers shouting into the void for ways of gaining AH the more players it's skies deserve and not enough sub moneys to pay for it's maintenance.
AcesHigh is dying from lack of care from it's brain. The brain sees the problems, we know it can read the problems, can even taste the solutions (do not lick your Screens), and yet it will not move to save itself.
A slow death AcesHigh does not deserve... And a bar fight I'd definitely get into over.
:old: :salute
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what many believed was a "bait and switch" thing with the "Free" only being two weeks.
I believe there was nothing HT could do about it - he could not mark the game as subscription based because you can technically play the game for free, you just can't access all of it.
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I believe there was nothing HT could do about it - he could not mark the game as subscription based because you can technically play the game for free, you just can't access all of it.
He could have used the opportunity of the Steam launch to add in a FTP subset of planes in the Melee.
He chose not to because he doesn't want to.
That is his choice, but it is an intentional choice he made, so no, it was not all completely out of his hands.
He made a conscious design decision. Would it have made the difference? No way to know now. But it was, by a vast majority, the single most common complaint on the Steam page.
Note in the current market, probably the only "Subscription" game they've been exposed to is War Thunder. And the only way it gets away with a subscription is by providing a FTP subset of planes to keep players engaged long enough to convince them to subscribe. No, the Steal the Sheep arena is not going to cut it. The Melee is what they see the game as, and no portion of it was FTP.
The other two sim they'd know are not subscription, but pay-per-module\installment and you own it. AH doesn't match that model either.
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People here making suggestions that would increase player numbers with the same ideas for the last 15 years.
Times have changed, players have changed, AcesHigh does not update with the times and probably never will to entice the new young sim pilot who; wide eyed and as dumb as rocks, flys with a mouse, has only "really ever played War Thunder", and considers that shower of toejame the "Pinnacle of Simulating Air War".
The old guard clutching tightly at their Win7 1Gig graphics cards are keeping the lights on with their sub moneys but they are aging, moving on with life and times, inevitably dying away from the game and the young are not interested in bringing their friends into the arenas to fly around in empty sky. There's no more walking talking living museum like vets who lived through WW2 for the young-uns to look up to, learn from and soak in wisdom, there's no more realistic looking raids people like ET37 ran outside FSO for the main arena rat to intercept or partake. FSO, huh, which the young do not know exists or understand what FSO even means in 2 weeks So..
Players numbers are slowly hemorrhaging, the arena numbers boosting when the still alive yet curious AH-vets, away for 5+ years, you know; the old names, the old top 10 or so get nostalgic and pop back in from time to time, re-living their past glories tail whipping and beating down on the new generation like nothing has changed for a tour or 3 then going back to life and triple A titles.. but still our game will fade away, though gracefully, when there is not enough energy left in it's remaining subscribers shouting into the void for ways of gaining AH the more players it's skies deserve and not enough sub moneys to pay for it's maintenance.
AcesHigh is dying from lack of care from it's brain. The brain sees the problems, we know it can read the problems, can even taste the solutions (do not lick your Screens), and yet it will not move to save itself.
A slow death AcesHigh does not deserve... And a bar fight I'd definitely get into over.
:old: :salute
Well said. Currently we are experiencing a "golden age" resurgence of flight sims outside of AH. Enjoy AH for what it currently is and expect the decay to continue. If AH leaves you unsatisfied, there are other sims out there that are vibrant with updates and players. The important thing is DO NOT let AH sour you on the flight sim hobby.
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Oh is that his game? Maybe try reading comprehension.
You should know it is far from free. The makers of the game sell in game cheats. If you don't buy, you have little chance.
You we’re heavily implying that nobody would build a game and make it free. In which fortnite is literally a free game that can be played on any operating system. There is no cheats you purchase in the game. You can choose to pay for different characters and gun skins (that bring 0 in game advantage) in game if you would like.
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You we’re heavily implying that nobody would build a game and make it free. In which fortnite is literally a free game that can be played on any operating system. There is no cheats you purchase in the game. You can choose to pay for different characters and gun skins (that bring 0 in game advantage) in game if you would like.
The most important aspect of any FTP model is to ensure there is always a sufficient critical mass of players in the arena to make the game worth it to those who pay to upgrade.
Why would I pay to play in empty arenas? A Massively-Multiplayer-Online-Game with no population is a car with no gas, steering wheel, or tires.
Think of bars that charge no cover for girls. Yes, they lose a little money on the girls, but that is what draws the guys and they make the difference on them. If the bars are empty of girls, the guys go elsewhere too.
The second most important aspect of any FTP is that is gives the potential customer an excuse not to uninstall the game. Why give up some free stuff? They may jump in from time to time to dabble and eventually start liking the game enough to be willing to pay for the rest. Maintaining contact with a potential customer as long as possible is key to get as many bites at the apple as possible over time to eventually convert them.
When you tell them two weeks or f-off, they uninstall, f-off and go to a competitor.
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Drop the subscription, make it free to play, add a PayPal link
You would have to start with one or two planes with nurfed guns. Then buy your way to being good like in war thunder.
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As stated they can't purchase their advantage in AH so they go where they can
AH takes way too much time and dedication to get good at that the average medicated ADHD subscriber wants to invest..
Yes some are prettier than AH but their a2a isn't any better and that is all that matters to some of us
Eagler
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He could have used the opportunity of the Steam launch to add in a FTP subset of planes in the Melee.
He chose not to because he doesn't want to.
That is his choice, but it is an intentional choice he made, so no, it was not all completely out of his hands.
He made a conscious design decision. Would it have made the difference? No way to know now. But it was, by a vast majority, the single most common complaint on the Steam page.
I've got no idea how much work it would take to re-code whatever has to be done to allow accounts without a paid subscription to access the arena but only have select planes available. I suspect it isn't easy and wonder if even if there was a desire to do it, if it's worth the work to appease words on the steam page.
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You would have to start with one or two planes with nurfed guns. Then buy your way to being good like in war thunder.
I beg to differ, in WT premium planes are still BR rated accordingly, they just offer a premium boost, skill still takes the cake
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I've got no idea how much work it would take to re-code whatever has to be done to allow accounts without a paid subscription to access the arena but only have select planes available. I suspect it isn't easy and wonder if even if there was a desire to do it, if it's worth the work to appease words on the steam page.
I didn't comment on the difficulty. Since he wrote the whole game himself, I would assume it is within his capabilities.
I stated I didn't know if it would have made a difference. I do believe it would have avoided the most common complaint and confusion which immediately turned into a feeling of bait-and-switch.
What I was pushing back on is that everything was out of HT hands and he was a helpless waif and the mercy of the winds. He could have made a different decision. He made a choice not to.
I think WT (which I don't like) did have a deeper understanding of a new customer psychology and how to play them to get the most subscriptions possible. I don't like micro transactions, but I do think they were smart to support a subset of FTP planes. Many players probably started out thinking they would only ever stick to the FTP and eventually they slowly convinced them.
When AH started out, they made a really bold step at the time to go flat rate because they realized the hourly model they used to do was dying or dead. They saw the writing on the wall and took a big risk with flat rate. They sense the market had shifted. It paid off.
I don't think they have the same insight (or no longer are willing to take the risk) that the simple ole two week trial and then subscription is dying as much now as hourly rate was then. WT realized that and adjusted. AH hasn't.
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You would have to start with one or two planes with nurfed guns. Then buy your way to being good like in war thunder.
That not how War Thunder works at all.
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I think WT (which I don't like) did have a deeper understanding of a new customer psychology and how to play them to get the most subscriptions possible. I don't like micro transactions, but I do think they were smart to support a subset of FTP planes.
I wouldn't call it 'a subset' of free planes - almost all planes (& tanks or ships) are free. And the smaller subset of premium objects don't let you magically rule the battlefield.
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Issue with free to play planes in MA is that no one flies those early planes in MA now..for good reason, most die in them repeatedly...
Imagine the new guy cruising around in the 109e only to get killed in two seconds by the ah vet in the 190D..
It may make them quit even sooner than 2 weeks
Eagler
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I wouldn't call it 'a subset' of free planes - almost all planes (& tanks or ships) are free. And the smaller subset of premium objects don't let you magically rule the battlefield.
Point taken. I knew that had some amount of FTP, but I'm not knowledgeable on the whole system.
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What I was pushing back on is that everything was out of HT hands and he was a helpless waif and the mercy of the winds. He could have made a different decision. He made a choice not to.
I don't think anyone said he was helpless or that he is/was not capable of making the change. Again, only he knows how much work it would've taken to completely rework how a portion of the game works to appease the wording on the steam page.
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Issue with free to play planes in MA is that no one flies those early planes in MA now..for good reason, most die in them repeatedly...
Imagine the new guy cruising around in the 109e only to get killed in two seconds by the ah vet in the 190D..
It may make them quit even sooner than 2 weeks
Eagler
You think that's worse than thinking there is a FTP portion and then being told that there isn't once you've installed? (Well not in a sense they would accept as FTP.)
I think a noob is going to die in a EW plane as fast as in a pony. It would be a while before they could even make use of a higher performance plane.
And there are players who would even have fun just flying goons with troops\supplies or M3.
Anything to lure them into not uninstalling as soon as they get that two-week trial and then subscribe message. I suspect at the point they get that dialog popup, 99% decide on the spot to uninstall before they even get to the arena.
What other solution do you have to put sufficient players in the arena? More player videos? Hand out some t-shirts at an airshow?
The biggest problem with AH now is lack of warm bodies in the arena. FTP helps keep WT populated while they try and convert subscriptions.
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rework how a portion of the game works to appease the wording on the steam page.
Another way of phrasing that is to satisfy the current market's product expectations.
No law says you have to, but no law says people have to play your game. You may not care how players reacted, but those reviews are written in ink and do the game no favors going forward. They will continue to warn away players who read them for years to come.
Anyway, I don't care. Believe what you want. It would probably be too late to make a difference now anyway and the Steam launch is water under the bridge.
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What about people like me who like the game as it is including the size player base?
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What about people like me who like the game as it is including the size player base?
Then you are in luck.
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I must add that War Thunders premium planes are more fun to fly in most cases. There's always something special about them that makes them worth the money, I've spent $35 on a single plane before, the DO 335 B-2, an absolute beast of a warplane, would be fun to see it I AH
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Well here's the thing:
It's not a bait and switch necessarily in the sense that any of them could have opened a custom arena and had players fly in there all for free right? You see, that's exactly what H2H was, which is what lured me into the game. For some reason match play arenas like many other games just haven't picked up speed. Is it because it's on another tab on the top of the clipboard and no one recognizes it? They only see the MA with #s and think that is the only place for online game play.
Those guys should have opened a custom arena and brought all of their friends but I guess didn't care enough to figure it out? Which is strange to me because so many other games have dedicated severs for matches.
The MA is just not for everyone. The special events hardly get recognized on steam. I can't even remember if I even read anything about them in the comments. I don't think any one gave them a long post about their greatness. I just dont understand why match play style arenas haven't taken off here? I do miss the h2h style of play and it was great for newbies, but it seems no one understood them when steam popped and they all thought the Main Arena was it. The MA is extremely tough for new players who don't understand the game and timing of it all yet.
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I was born in 98, some of yall have been playing longer than I've been able to read.
:aok
I've been playing (starting in Air Warrior, then Aces High once Air Warrior shut down) since 1988.
Now, I've got my 13-year-old daughters flying with me in scenarios. Woot! :aok
Folks, if you want excellent many-on-many fights, with historical matchups:
I welcome you and invite you to fly in Scenarios.
Those are special events that run two times a year, and one is coming up in October.
More details:
https://ahevents.net/index.php/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario
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What about people like me who like the game as it is including the size player base?
HOW DARE YOU!! :aok
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HOW DARE YOU!! :aok
To be fair I don’t have the problems others do and I can see their side of things. I only play between 8P-11P EST and I am more than ok with it. Sometimes later on the weekends.
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:aok
I've been playing (starting in Air Warrior, then Aces High once Air Warrior shut down) since 1988.
Now, I've got my 13-year-old daughters flying with me in scenarios. Woot! :aok
Folks, if you want excellent many-on-many fights, with historical matchups:
I welcome you and invite you to fly in Scenarios.
Those are special events that run two times a year, and one is coming up in October.
More details:
https://ahevents.net/index.php/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario
This
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I must add that War Thunders premium planes are more fun to fly in most cases. There's always something special about them that makes them worth the money, I've spent $35 on a single plane before, the DO 335 B-2, an absolute beast of a warplane, would be fun to see it I AH
you are very accurate in your bomber guns and good at white flagging Town I still think you are Old vet of the game and fly under a new name lol hope you stick around you got some skills
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if you use WT WW II Tanks in realistic arenas you can do without any premium tanks and do really good, even dominating some maps using correct tactics.
There is a killer catch though,on smaller maps you want your crew not only to be veterans but Ace to reduce the reload time time on target.
Ace normally cost real money, unless you get them from challenges you did, but then again it depends on you playing style and experience with weak-spots on you opponents vehicles, and knowledge of a map.
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you are very accurate in your bomber guns and good at white flagging Town I still think you are Old vet of the game and fly under a new name lol hope you stick around you got some skills
I've played on and off for the last 10 years, I'm not anyone you would remember though. AH is what got into flight Sims in the first place, and has the most unique play style I've come across that's why I keep coming back every so often.
Bombers are my primary, last night I tried my hand with some fighters for the sake of earning some different achievements, I'd say I handled myself okay.
Thanks for the props :cheers: we'll see you out there.
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Fulcrum :pray
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WT has a lot of complaints about their payment model and the company taking a different route that is not going over well. People are starting to realize some of these new fluff games/sims are money pits. Their numbers have been dropping for the last year too. $15 flat rate is the best FOR THE CUSTOMER, and WAY more fun.
What ya pay for one plane there will buy a few to several months of AH for 120 planes and vehicles.
If someone can't afford $15, they prolly shouldn't be playing anything. A McDs disgusting dinner cost almost that much, it's gone in 10 minutes. "$15 is too high, so I go to another game to pay $60 for ONE plane." That's an oxymoron.
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Guess you never heard of fortnite? :bolt:
Couple years ago I read that the makers of Fortnight raked in $300 million just from players spending money on outfits for their in-game characters.
That is what you're dealing with today.
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Couple years ago I read that the makers of Fortnight raked in $300 million just from players spending money on outfits for their in-game characters.
That is what you're dealing with today.
I worked on their championship production. The expense is a bit blinding for a game.
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Fulcrum :pray
:rofl
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If someone can't afford $15, they prolly shouldn't be playing anything. A McDs disgusting dinner cost almost that much, it's gone in 10 minutes. "$15 is too high, so I go to another game to pay $60 for ONE plane." That's an oxymoron.
Have you play the other games?
More than likely you have not. I have got more from a $50 Huey in another game then I have got in years of playing Aces High.
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I worked on their championship production. The expense is a bit blinding for a game.
I wonder if there is anything you have done that you won’t tell us about?
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I wonder if there is anything you have done that you won’t tell us about?
Not until the Statutes of Limitations expire.
Or he moves to a non-extradition country. ;)
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Wonder if HT ever thought about making it free to play but those individuals playing free only can fly 1 plane Say a 38 J or C 205.
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I wonder if there is anything you have done that you won’t tell us about?
Yuv heard the tip of the mountain. Used to do Pyro in the 80s, on stage that was an adrenaline rush. Back then we had to mix the powders, without blowing ourselves up. Today it's gases. lol I've lived a very colorful life....some good, some not so good. Always peaks and valleys. Lots of war stories after 44yrs in that biz. I have NO idea how Opie from Mayberry ended up where I did,. kind of a forest gump scenario. but it was a good ride...... it's all over now. Just lookin where I can use my skills for somethin else.
Rosa Parks sat at my console with me while I mixed an Aretha show, she got a plaque from the WH. Weird stufff like that.
Never went to the parties since the 80s....did a show, grabbed my stufff, went fishing or deer hunting on my 80 acres river front. I belong in a forest, not a stage. <shrug>
AW and AH have always been my adrenaline replacement. Live life full throttle, it's too short for anything else.
Got my nickname in the 90s when I climbed 60 ft aluminum towers with no harness in a thunderstorm to release the roof so we could motor it down against the wind as to not become a parachute. Didn't have time. was up there in 10 sec.
Built/overhauled my first Harley during the winter,.. in my bedroom. I lived and breathed that beast, literally. lol ok that's enough, sorry
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I wonder if there is anything you have done that you won’t tell us about?
I don't think he remotely understands sarcasm
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I don't think he remotely understands sarcasm
Or modesty. :rofl
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I don't think he remotely understands sarcasm
He sent me his Facebook link in a pm… twice lol.
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He sent me his Facebook link in a pm… twice lol.
So desperate. So thirsty.
I'm surprised he doesn't crack a rib from his constant chest thumping.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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I pay to play. I’m s customer. You’re not.
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Animal I think you need a wellness check. Stop sending me messages.
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Animal I think you need a wellness check. Stop sending me messages.
So desperate. So thirsty. So toxic.
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Animal I think you need a wellness check. Stop sending me messages.
You can report PMs if you need to.
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You can report PMs if you need to.
Or put him on ignore and his PM can't get through.
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I have some dandy PM's from Animl... I won't post them here though. (there are some younger players I'm guessing)...
Coogan
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I have some dandy PM's from Animl... I won't post them here though. (there are some younger players I'm guessing)...
Coogan
You should report them. The guy is unstable.
I just reported an pile of them.
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I don’t block things I will just ignore them if they continue.
Btw I probably agree with him most times but he is ridiculous always.
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I don’t block things I will just ignore them if they continue.
Btw I probably agree with him most times but he is ridiculous always.
Agree or disagree doesn't give him the right to spam abusive sexually obscene PM.
Don't know about yours, but the stuff he sent me and others would have got him banned on the forum instantly. Which is why he harasses through PM and attacking YT accounts.
And then plays innocent victim on the forum.
At least anything I say, I say right out in the open. I don't hide behind PM\YT stalking.
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Just logged. Saturday night, 10pm euro, 4pm est. almost 70 players, not bad.
Flew for about an hour, could barely find a fight. Drove some vehicles, resupplied, flew around.....
map is huge, it's beautiful, but in terms of finding a fight, just too big. Fields too far apart, action to broad.
In other sims not to be mentioned, with 30 people on the server i can usually find a fight much faster, without inflight radar.
Maps need a rethink in view of current numbers. They were great for 300 people, they don't work for 50.
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Maps need a rethink in view of current numbers. They were great for 300 people, they don't work for 50.
Especially spreading them across 3 fronts.
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Agree or disagree doesn't give him the right to spam abusive sexually obscene PM.
Don't know about yours, but the stuff he sent me and others would have got him banned on the forum instantly. Which is why he harasses through PM and attacking YT accounts.
And then plays innocent victim on the forum.
At least anything I say, I say right out in the open. I don't hide behind PM\YT stalking.
Well nothing near that but I can certainly see it.
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Always thought it would be better to be too crowded on a smaller map than way too spread out on a larger map as we are now
Is there a minimum size the map makers need to stick to?
Smaller maps would be faster to build I would think and also win providing more variety than stagnation
I seriously think some of the maps could be reduced by 60 to 70% of their current size with today's numbers
Very small maps from 6am to 6pm est then small/medium maps the next 12 hrs..nothing the size we have today
If would be nice to see large dar bars in the majority of the map squares when you login
Eagler
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Animal I think you need a wellness check. Stop sending me messages.
huh
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huh
NOPE!
Stop playing victims to the response of your own post. Professional victims.
Daddy was upset that I mention what I did and missed the whole point.... they had a not of money to spen, that was on subject. So quite frankly YOU guys blew it off subject.
stop mistaking me for someone who cares what you cause yourself. Get a kleenex as bite ankles somewhere else. RWT
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That right there is a stable genius.
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NOPE!
Stop playing victims to the response of your own post. Professional victims.
Daddy was upset that I mention what I did and missed the whole point.... they had a not of money to spen, that was on subject. So quite frankly YOU guys blew it off subject.
stop mistaking me for someone who cares what you cause yourself. Get a kleenex as bite ankles somewhere else. RWT
Umm sure. Everyone misses it, even those that agree with your ramblings. You are certainly out… standing in your field! :salute
Imagine my surprise when my first kill of Sunday night was an assist on you.
Usually when you’re pointing at everyone else… it’s usually you.
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Man after all the years I played this game , served on many different levels to help make the game better with serving as an AvA staffer to a CM for the game for Snapshots and FSO and also Other events here. I am close to coming back have the game downloaded and even practicing my mouse flying for fighters tanks and bomber I had alot of players who have been here since day one that helped me out alot including the late and Great Ack-Ack along with Shuffler to keep me here back in the days. Yes I play another game that was is free the graphics are 30 time better and I have spent some money o. That game ya they use prototypes and other equipment that was close to being see. In war and no it is not world of tanks I tried that game and it sucks it is another game i play in like other who are trying to get me to try that Harrier Game . Even though I am not active here alot I. The game but the Molsman will be back soon even if I can help creating ew events for FSO
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Mols! Come play in the October scenario. :aok
Details:
https://ahevents.net/index.php/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario
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Mols! Come play in the October scenario. :aok
Details:
https://ahevents.net/index.php/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario
I will try and come on as a walk on the only day know I can’t do is the 28th that’s my Halloween cookout party. But ya have to remember I will be a mouse player no more fancy flight controllers like my old saitek 52 pro or my ch pedals
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Always thought it would be better to be too crowded on a smaller map than way too spread out on a larger map as we are now
Is there a minimum size the map makers need to stick to?
Smaller maps would be faster to build I would think and also win providing more variety than stagnation
I seriously think some of the maps could be reduced by 60 to 70% of their current size with today's numbers
Very small maps from 6am to 6pm est then small/medium maps the next 12 hrs..nothing the size we have today
If would be nice to see large dar bars in the majority of the map squares when you login
Eagler
It would be good for the current player base, and it could help revive numbers a bit. If people actually found a war when they logged in, they might log in more.
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It would be good for the current player base, and it could help revive numbers a bit. If people actually found a war when they logged in, they might log in more.
My thoughts exactly..
Seems the most easy way to attempt a change
Literally take a map and cut at least 50% of it out and give it a go..
Eagler
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Always thought it would be better to be too crowded on a smaller map than way too spread out on a larger map as we are now
Is there a minimum size the map makers need to stick to?
Smaller maps would be faster to build I would think and also win providing more variety than stagnation
I seriously think some of the maps could be reduced by 60 to 70% of their current size with today's numbers
Very small maps from 6am to 6pm est then small/medium maps the next 12 hrs..nothing the size we have today
If would be nice to see large dar bars in the majority of the map squares when you login
Eagler
They would have to make 10 mini maps. The issue would be the win the war types would blow through a mini map in an hour or two due to the number of bases/ bases needed for the win. They could adjust the percentage needed to win to increase the number of bases a team would need to capture to win the map, but then you would have what we had in the old days.....and sometimes these days. One team pushed back to 1 or 2 uncapturable base endlessly being vulched.
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They would have to make 10 mini maps. The issue would be the win the war types would blow through a mini map in an hour or two due to the number of bases/ bases needed for the win.
This.
This morning the numbers are 24 v 7 v 6, with the 7 and 6 fighting each other. Only the players can change this dynamic. (There are coding changes that might help, but that would probable upset the 24 who enjoy the horde.)
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Who cares who "wins the war"?
I am all for the map being won/changed daily if it means more action
Eagler
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That right there is a stable genius.
Someone got a light tase of his own medicine and went full tard. It's an absolutely comical outcome.
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Just don't call those hordemonkeys, bunnies - they also get real upset and mash their manbaby buttons when you point out things like this.
Oh, you can expect an anklehumper (or two) who thinks he's on a high horse but fails to realize he's not taking the high road to chime in with some banal observations, seeking some kind of faux validation for their ignorance.
This.
This morning the numbers are 24 v 7 v 6, with the 7 and 6 fighting each other. Only the players can change this dynamic. (There are coding changes that might help, but that would probable upset the 24 who enjoy the horde.)
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I always thought Mindanao produced the best fights. Close bases, small land mass, and normally potential for a 3 way fight as soon as the map goes into rotation. If the bases on the long peninsula on the west side were closer to the middle of the map and not stretched out, it'd be perfect.
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I'd think there are stats showing activity level by map, time of day, etc..
One would think it to be easy to remove the maps with the least action (fun) and only put the best maps in the rotation
I don't care if it is only one map if it has the best action
Eagler
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I will try and come on as a walk on the only day know I can’t do is the 28th that’s my Halloween cookout party. But ya have to remember I will be a mouse player no more fancy flight controllers like my old saitek 52 pro or my ch pedals
Mols, I can send you a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, if you want. It's a twisty stick.
If you can make 3 frames, you can go ahead and register -- that's fine.
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I'd think there are stats showing activity level by map, time of day, etc..
One would think it to be easy to remove the maps with the least action (fun) and only put the best maps in the rotation
I don't care if it is only one map if it has the best action
Eagler
There are about 5 maps, that if removed, would make a world of difference for AH and fights. No coding necessary. I'm with you on the fact that it doesn't matter so much if maps get rolled quickly. Infact, with the current morning crew ruining everything, it's probably best if they just win the map, log off, and then a new one starts which prevents the bish from being ganged the rest of the day.
It would be good for the current player base, and it could help revive numbers a bit. If people actually found a war when they logged in, they might log in more.
I think the biggest killer of #s is a map that doesn't provide direct into the fight action. They log in, see nothing going on, and log out. Or in the evening, players get tired and log, but on a huge map they log faster because the fight disappears. With a map thay provides great fights, you can have a fight last well into the AM because people don't log. Base distance to fight is also a major factor in this. One thing I notice is that if there is no close back bases to defend from, you might as well let the other side take it once they get the cap.
I for one, simply don't understand why gameplay has evolved more for players who like to play by themselves, hide in a tank shooting buildings by themselves or bombing from 35k feet with no one fighting back, rather than towards airplane fighter action where most of the popularity in air combat resides. We need to bring fighters from DCS, WT, IL2, ww2ol by brining back the fighter action on smaller maps.
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I for one, simply don't understand why gameplay has evolved more for players who like to play by themselves, hide in a tank shooting buildings by themselves or bombing from 35k feet with no one fighting back, rather than towards airplane fighter action where most of the popularity in air combat resides. We need to bring fighters from DCS, WT, IL2, ww2ol by brining back the fighter action on smaller maps.
That is why I left AH after over 20 yrs of playing. Now I fly a sim that is constantly updated, has a vibrant community with good multiplayer options, and even a robust A/I that is always willing to fight 24/7. It is only the fond memories of the years past that keeps me occasionally checking in on the AH forums.
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I always thought Mindanao produced the best fights. Close bases, small land mass, and normally potential for a 3 way fight as soon as the map goes into rotation. If the bases on the long peninsula on the west side were closer to the middle of the map and not stretched out, it'd be perfect.
We got Mindnao tonight for Friday night!! Should be some big action :airplane: :joystick:
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Vocal minority was too lazy to add any other mission profiles to their repertoire when arena conditions change (arena is dynamic) and instead rally for the changes that have resulted in low population.
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Vocal minority was too lazy to add any other mission profiles to their repertoire when arena conditions change (arena is dynamic) and instead rally for the changes that have resulted in low population.
lol "it's the player's fault."
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lol "it's the player's fault."
I'd bet a heck of a lot of players have never sampled certain mission types AcesHigh has available.
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If people actually found a war when they logged in, they might log in more.
This is absolutely correct. :aok It's why the Pigs are making our own war crack now.
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This is absolutely correct. :aok It's why the Pigs are making our own war crack now.
(https://assets.sainsburys-groceries.co.uk/gol/6762010/1/300x300.jpg)
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<S> to all,
In my personal experience, I'm unable to transfer my joy for this game to young guys around me. Most of them are not interested in planes that didn't exist anymore -except on museums or aerial exhibitions-; neither the combat maneuvers required to be a good pilot on the game. The challenge or learning the principles of fly and kill on this game is another wall that the newcomers have.
The cost of the game doesn’t look like a big deal in many but some type of deal for new players could be an attraction point
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AH is too macho for the youngin today..
They can't handle getting their rear ends handed to them over and over and over again like we did years ago that is needed to learn the principles of the game and get better..
So let's concentrate on smaller maps/ closer bases to make it better with the 100 a night we get now
:cheers:
Eagler
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<S> to all,
In my personal experience, I'm unable to transfer my joy for this game to young guys around me. Most of them are not interested in planes that didn't exist anymore -except on museums or aerial exhibitions-; neither the combat maneuvers required to be a good pilot on the game. The challenge or learning the principles of fly and kill on this game is another wall that the newcomers have.
The cost of the game doesn’t look like a big deal in many but some type of deal for new players could be an attraction point
This is probably the biggest hurdle AH will have and can do almost nothing about. WWII is not as top of as it was when we were all 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s; even earlier for others. I have teenagers and they are not taught about WWII enough to build the fascination.
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This is probably the biggest hurdle AH will have and can do almost nothing about. WWII is not as top of as it was when we were all 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s; even earlier for others. I have teenagers and they are not taught about WWII enough to build the fascination.
Agreed, and yet, Band of Brothers, Search for Private Ryan, and Midway all did very well in the box office as I recall.
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This is probably the biggest hurdle AH will have and can do almost nothing about. WWII is not as top of as it was when we were all 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s; even earlier for others. I have teenagers and they are not taught about WWII enough to build the fascination.
Yet there are still plenty of successful WWII titles out there.
Hell Let Loose
Post Scriptum
Battlefield 5
IL2 Box still sells millions
WWII planes don't seem to hurt WT bottom line
Even new WW2 combat sims being developed like Combat Pilot. The $millions a project of that scale would require would be hard to green light if WW2 was a dead genre that couldn't be profitable. That show industry insiders and investors don't see WWII as a unprofitable if properly approached.
IMHO, WWII is a perfectly profitable genre if you do everything else right. I just don't think that is AH's main problem, due to the continued success of other WWII titles. YMMV.
[Edit] Which is intended to be taken as a good thing. If you love WWII, it appears you are not alone and it is not a deal-breaker of a genre. What ever other challenges you face, the genre isn't going to stop you.
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True but all those games, even IL2 to some extent, are much more arcade driven than simulation. It’s the appreciation for the period hardware and tactics. This is where the distance from WWII will show the most. I don’t know the sales demos of those games but I’m guessing the WWII driven have less younger buyers but who knows.
You don’t see a lot of WWI game around these days.
Battlefield 1942 was one of my first big WWII purchase and I was so enamored that I could go from a first person shooter to a flight sim or otherwise. It also has some cool Africa maps. The later Battlefield Vietnam version was pretty cool too. I spent a lot of time flaming people in the F4.
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True but all those games, even IL2 to some extent, are much more arcade driven than simulation.
You consider IL2 more arcade than AH? I wouldn't describe either that way. True there is a gradation. No choice on the spectrum is wrong, just a different focus. I'd put it on the spectrum like:
Less Arcade>------------>More Arcade
=======================
DCS..IL2.AH.............WT
Number of separating dots should be interpreted as distance on the scale. So in between IL2 and WT but way closer to IL2 and both are pretty far from WT.
@0.02.
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DCS is being rated top by graphics, not game play, in fact it's rated low for game play. It's a SIM, not much more.
AH, because of MP, is much more fun then DCS and IL-2, no matter how you cook it. People who like strictly sims with a touch of game play kewl, have at it, you're in heaven. When is DCS going to decide on a single FM?
AH players are about game play and numbers in a single arena. DCS can't and will not touch that. DCS and WT are money pits that are slowly losing their numbers. Their peak is over. they have who they have. Some have returned here.
The human eye needs 1-2 seconds to focus,... ultra detail of an AC doesn't matter at all when it's gone in 1 second.
No matter the subject,....DCS. Usually a slightly negative thread of AH, DCS! I think some spend more time here then playing it. I do believe the subject was Active Players in AH. <smh>
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You consider IL2 more arcade than AH? I wouldn't describe either that way. True there is a gradation. No choice on the spectrum is wrong, just a different focus. I'd put it on the spectrum like:
Less Arcade>------------>More Arcade
=======================
DCS..IL2.AH.............WT
Number of separating dots should be interpreted as distance on the scale. So in between IL2 and WT but way closer to IL2 and both are pretty far from WT.
@0.02.
I guess it depends on if we are talking about IL2 multiplayer or single player. I was more referring to the single player side where you can make the game arcadey.
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I guess it depends on if we are talking about IL2 multiplayer or single player. I was more referring to the single player side where you can make the game arcadey.
I'm not sure I am understanding your point.
Are you saying because IL2 has settings to enable game mode and relaxed physics stuff if you choose to select those options, that makes the IL2 franchise more arcadey?
That's confusing because I can do the same thing in AH. I can go offline and set unlimited fuel and ordinance and set invulnerable and enable easy mode flight model. I wouldn't say that in any way made AH arcadey.
I guess it is a philosophy on how you want to measure a game at its highest possible settings, or it's lowest possible settings. I'll judge a games arcadeyness (giving the spellchecker fits :cool:) by the realism that can be achieved at the highest settings possible. Like I would judge the potential of a racer car driver by his best possible lap time and not his lowest. I'm measuring for max possible performance.
I don't care if a game can be configured more arcadey than another. What I care about is can a game be configured to higher realism than another. :cheers:
And then we can argue about what should be the criteria. :)
And then we can argue about our qualifications to evaluate. :D
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DCS is being rated top by graphics, not game play, in fact it's rated low for game play. It's a SIM, not much more.
AH, because of MP, is much more fun then DCS and IL-2, no matter how you cook it. People who like strictly sims with a touch of game play kewl, have at it, you're in heaven. When is DCS going to decide on a single FM?
AH players are about game play and numbers in a single arena. DCS can't and will not touch that. DCS and WT are money pits that are slowly losing their numbers. Their peak is over. they have who they have. Some have returned here.
The human eye needs 1-2 seconds to focus,... ultra detail of an AC doesn't matter at all when it's gone in 1 second.
No matter the subject,....DCS. Usually a slightly negative thread of AH, DCS! I think some spend more time here then playing it. I do believe the subject was Active Players in AH. <smh>
In the "hayday" of 600 players (even +200) you are correct that AH was the place to be. Unfortunately, that has not existed for a long time, for a variety of reasons. When the numbers in AH are low there really isn't much to do, so AH and your sim gear sits idle.
Where DCS and IL2 endure is a decent A/I that allows for PvE and single player. With combat flight sims being a niche, the more you have to rely on participation of others the less "bang for the buck" you are going to get. You only need a couple players with PvE to have fun and the comradery. If you only prefer going against humans then both DCS and IL2 have smaller maps and therefore you only need about 30 players, which is not hard to find at all.
When I could carve out some time to play AH my routine was to log in and see if there were enough players with a decent dar bar indicating a good fight. Those instances became fewer and fewer, which resulted in logging off and finding something else to do. With DCS/IL2 I can check for the same things and, if it is not available, I still have a wealth of single player missions available in whatever aircraft I feel like flying. In short when I feel like I want to fly combat it is available 24/7.
With WWII aircraft, the graphic detail becomes much more relevant. Not long ago I was flying a pony mission in DCS and lit up a 190 at point blank range. Quite something to SEE the 190 canopy fly off and the pilot animatedly climb out of the aircraft to bail out. Detailed ground terrain and ground units, along with good smoke/fire affects, increase the immersion and that is why we are all playing.
Bottom line is playtime is one of the most precious human commodities and everyone has to choose what gives them the most satisfaction. Don't let any one game make you hang up you flight gear without checking out the others.
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(https://assets.sainsburys-groceries.co.uk/gol/6762010/1/300x300.jpg)
We are tasty! :D
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It would be cool to see a graph of subscriptions along a timeline detailing dates of changes.
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It would be cool to see a graph of subscriptions along a timeline detailing dates of changes.
Lusche has posted one before.
Hard to draw conclusions from correlations, but it was interesting. There was an interesting inflection starting with the cancellation of Tour of Duty (or whatever it was called). Of course that was also proximate with the after effects of the GFC.
Lies; damned lies; and statistics. ;)
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The Gentlemans Flying Club has nothing whatever to do with anything, they are fine fellows.
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Aces High is the " Minecraft " of flight sims
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Aces High is the " Minecraft " of flight sims
Except Minecraft made a boat load of money. Sold to MS for $2.5bil.
I still don't get how. The world seems upside-down sometimes.
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In the "hayday" of 600 players (even +200) you are correct that AH was the place to be. Unfortunately, that has not existed for a long time, for a variety of reasons. When the numbers in AH are low there really isn't much to do, so AH and your sim gear sits idle.
Where DCS and IL2 endure is a decent A/I that allows for PvE and single player. With combat flight sims being a niche, the more you have to rely on participation of others the less "bang for the buck" you are going to get. You only need a couple players with PvE to have fun and the comradery. If you only prefer going against humans then both DCS and IL2 have smaller maps and therefore you only need about 30 players, which is not hard to find at all.
When I could carve out some time to play AH my routine was to log in and see if there were enough players with a decent dar bar indicating a good fight. Those instances became fewer and fewer, which resulted in logging off and finding something else to do. With DCS/IL2 I can check for the same things and, if it is not available, I still have a wealth of single player missions available in whatever aircraft I feel like flying. In short when I feel like I want to fly combat it is available 24/7.
With WWII aircraft, the graphic detail becomes much more relevant. Not long ago I was flying a pony mission in DCS and lit up a 190 at point blank range. Quite something to SEE the 190 canopy fly off and the pilot animatedly climb out of the aircraft to bail out. Detailed ground terrain and ground units, along with good smoke/fire affects, increase the immersion and that is why we are all playing.
Bottom line is playtime is one of the most precious human commodities and everyone has to choose what gives them the most satisfaction. Don't let any one game make you hang up you flight gear without checking out the others.
I'm not saying you don't have some valid points, I'm not directing all of this to you... but I will say what I've always said since Janes, WB, etc... if it's not fun, graphics don't matter. Ask almost any former long term AW player. In this and AW,... MP is what made both stand out. The MP concept kept AH and AW alive well past their time. And my point is hard to challenge without omitting the basics.
I've checked out Both IL-2 and DCS. In videos the way planes fly inIL-2...I'm not sure that's even a true FM. If more than 40% of a game is script drone missions,... my interest is instantly GONE. Not even a second thought.
DCS, it's very very nice, they haven't decided in one single FM, they have several. If more than 40% of a game is script drone missions,... my interest is instantly GONE. Not even a second thought. AI IS arcade
Many would have to buy a new PC too,..and you haven't even gotten into the money pit of flying planes, which is THE most omitted point in the sales pitches. Some refer to this in terms of swindle. $70 for one plane, or 4.6 months of 120 AC, boats and vehicles,... whose graphics are NOT substandard. And the FM is solid.
yes,... we can at a glance say they look real good,.... until you dig into them. If that wasn't true..... we would not have people trying to selling it in every conversation like an meth addiction. That's a Tell all by itself.
If that's what blows some skirts up,... kewl, be with it, go there, ...
But if some are expecting a mass migration to fill a boring game,..they are not listening,..it's NOT gaining any ground here. If that was going to happen,...it would have already. It's now just cringe worthy to those of us who repeat ourselves endlessly to the endless sales attempt, we like the game play here. The main point that is always INTENTIONALLY left out to a crowd that has already well established,.. THIS is their home. Get off the lawn with the signs. If I wanted AI,.. I'd go back to Half-Life. Ya can't be any more arcade than AI. <shug>
Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
if they are that great,.. WHY in the hell do they spend more time here, than there? Quite frankly,... they can't wait for AH to die, the sooner the better... the C movie acting is like glass. The body language screams BS.
i'm sure will all see DCS in the next 48 hrs. When someone can be 90% predicted, ya got them nailed.
:) <shrug>
Peace
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Some good points. Keeping to the point of this thread, the truth is AH has been left dying on the vine by the developer for many years. This is not a slam on Dale. AH had it's time and I am thankful I got to enjoy it.
With the current number of players, combined with the size of the maps, AH does not provide anymore multiplayer experience than the current "popular" sims out there. All the while providing outdated flight mechanics, graphics, and sound. Do you need a "current" computer to play the "popular" sims? You bet. AH used to require that also, when it was still being supported.
"Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Totally agree and I was guilty of this with AH, to the point of considering hanging up the hobby all together. My message to others is "don't let this happen to you." It is hard to leave a rut, but the alternatives are out there.
As far as cost is concerned, it takes just a little research. There are a couple sims out there that you can try (both single player and multiplayer) completely free. Not just two weeks. AH is $150 a year. For that amount you can get more than enough content to keep you entertained and learning for YEARS. You might also find that it re-ignites your passion for the hobby.
From what I have seen, the "sales attempt" on this forum occurs only in response to those players expressing frustration over AH current game play. Many are frustrated with AH game play. Look at the length of this thread to prove my point. Prior AH subscribers are just pointing out that "current" AH play will probably not get better and that there are alternatives out there.
We both agree that bottom line is everyone has to choose what is right for them. :aok
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"AH is $150 a year."
Err...I mean $180 a year....kinda messes with your credibility when you can't do basic math! :D
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Some good points. Keeping to the point of this thread, the truth is AH has been left dying on the vine by the developer for many years. This is not a slam on Dale. AH had it's time and I am thankful I got to enjoy it.
With the current number of players, combined with the size of the maps, AH does not provide anymore multiplayer experience than the current "popular" sims out there. All the while providing outdated flight mechanics, graphics, and sound. Do you need a "current" computer to play the "popular" sims? You bet. AH used to require that also, when it was still being supported.
"Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Totally agree and I was guilty of this with AH, to the point of considering hanging up the hobby all together. My message to others is "don't let this happen to you." It is hard to leave a rut, but the alternatives are out there.
As far as cost is concerned, it takes just a little research. There are a couple sims out there that you can try (both single player and multiplayer) completely free. Not just two weeks. AH is $150 a year. For that amount you can get more than enough content to keep you entertained and learning for YEARS. You might also find that it re-ignites your passion for the hobby.
From what I have seen, the "sales attempt" on this forum occurs only in response to those players expressing frustration over AH current game play. Many are frustrated with AH game play. Look at the length of this thread to prove my point. Prior AH subscribers are just pointing out that "current" AH play will probably not get better and that there are alternatives out there.
We both agree that bottom line is everyone has to choose what is right for them. :aok
Correct, DCS is NOT for me, I'll stay with AH3.
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"AH is $150 a year."
Err...I mean $180 a year....kinda messes with your credibility when you can't do basic math! :D
Cheap ain't it.
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Cheap ain't it.
Depends on the person. At the time I left AH, the MA was so deteriorated that I was only flying Monday Night Madness and FSO. So about 3 hours a week.
I went to a popular sim and for that same $180 (granted all paid at once) I got the terrains and aircraft I was interested in. My multiplayer time increased to 12 hours a week and has stayed that way for the past two years. It reignited my passion for the hobby, had me pouring over YouTube videos, going to air museums, and got my brain matter working on learning new things. Two years later I still have not exhausted all there is to offer from the aircraft/terrains I initially bought.
In addition, I now look forward to developer newsletters that come out EVERY week and feel the strain when there is not AT LEAST one program update in a month.
Since that initial purchase I have bought other aircraft and terrains, but the cost has been about $120 compared to the $180 I would have spent on a second year of AH. So for me it has been monetarily cheaper than AH and a HUGE bargain in entertainment. Again everyone is different.
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Cheap ain't it.
Heh! I remember folks paying $6-$12/hr to play Air Warrior, with monthly bills of $700 back in 1995 (which inflation adjusted is $1400/month today), or $17,000/year in today's money. :uhoh
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Heh! I remember folks paying $6-$12/hr to play Air Warrior, with monthly bills of $700 back in 1995 (which inflation adjusted is $1400/month today), or $17,000/year in today's money. :uhoh
I remember those days as well, playing Air Warrior over GEnie. Also remember $70 boxed flight sims ($149 in today's money). How many hobbies get cheaper over the years? We are pretty lucky!
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I remember those days as well, playing Air Warrior over GEnie. Also remember $70 boxed flight sims ($149 in today's money). How many hobbies get cheaper over the years? We are pretty lucky!
I feel the same way. :aok
I remember how happy folks were when Air Warrior went flat fee, and it was only like $30-$50/month or whatever to play. Heaven! :aok
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Heh! I remember folks paying $6-$12/hr to play Air Warrior, with monthly bills of $700 back in 1995 (which inflation adjusted is $1400/month today), or $17,000/year in today's money. :uhoh
I remember that well, although couldn't play often becaus eof substandard PC. 386 I think, upgrade from 286.
I think the real issue is there is a different POV between very seasoned old skewl players, and others who came after 2000.
All we know of its MP, we cut our teeth on it....nothing else will ever match it. We've seen every variation of a sim anyone could imagine,...we know a lame selling point when we see one...without MP it just won't cut the mustard with us. We've seen the selling points on things like DCS and IL-2 and WT longer than they exist.. It's all the same glitter with a new face. Nothing said is new or inventive.
I'm not sure some realize there is no convincing us of anything else. We've done all the Fighter Ace and Janes Planes type re-branding. If it's not MP,... we have no interest at all. We've seen all the speeches, and variations of the same. Save the breath. We just know where the fun is, and it's not always graphics, and it will NEVER be AI.
<S> We is what we is.
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I feel the same way. :aok
I remember how happy folks were when Air Warrior went flat fee, and it was only like $30-$50/month or whatever to play. Heaven! :aok
How can we forget the ultimate flying Death Star b17 in Air Wary when all the guns coughs manned by players. Dam I did countless with that thing and the best part was all of us drunks had a great time
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DCS lacks wwII planes badly, only a few late war planes like the 109K4, 190D, and Fw190a8 against P47D's spit9, and p51D, and Mosquito-6.
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That is why I left AH after over 20 yrs of playing. Now I fly a sim that is constantly updated, has a vibrant community with good multiplayer options, and even a robust A/I that is always willing to fight 24/7. It is only the fond memories of the years past that keeps me occasionally checking in on the AH forums.
Which community is that?
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DCS lacks wwII planes badly, only a few late war planes like the 109K4, 190D, and Fw190a8 against P47D's spit9, and p51D, and Mosquito-6.
Pretty much sums it up. Its a cockpit sim.
I think it's beyond comical, that some try to make 15$ a mo sound like some massive cost.
I can get a McDs hamburger meal for 15$, and it's gone in 10 minutes. This whole 15$ is this huge expense is used lemon car salesman nonsense.
DCS is a true money pit. The comparison is a joke, and insult to intelligence. Denial is a hellava a drug.
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I'm not sure some realize there is no convincing us of anything else.
heh... that definitely goes without saying.
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Depends on the person. At the time I left AH, the MA was so deteriorated that I was only flying Monday Night Madness and FSO. So about 3 hours a week.
I went to a popular sim and for that same $180 (granted all paid at once) I got the terrains and aircraft I was interested in. My multiplayer time increased to 12 hours a week and has stayed that way for the past two years. It reignited my passion for the hobby, had me pouring over YouTube videos, going to air museums, and got my brain matter working on learning new things. Two years later I still have not exhausted all there is to offer from the aircraft/terrains I initially bought.
In addition, I now look forward to developer newsletters that come out EVERY week and feel the strain when there is not AT LEAST one program update in a month.
Since that initial purchase I have bought other aircraft and terrains, but the cost has been about $120 compared to the $180 I would have spent on a second year of AH. So for me it has been monetarily cheaper than AH and a HUGE bargain in entertainment. Again everyone is different.
Let me know what you think of it in 20 years. I have been here over 20 years. I don't fly as much as I have other things keeping me busy.
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Pretty much sums it up. Its a cockpit sim.
I think it's beyond comical, that some try to make 15$ a mo sound like some massive cost.
I can get a McDs hamburger meal for 15$, and it's gone in 10 minutes. This whole 15$ is this huge expense is used lemon car salesman nonsense.
DCS is a true money pit. The comparison is a joke, and insult to intelligence. Denial is a hellava a drug.
Just because you like one game and don't like another doesn't mean it's a joke. DCS is fun, Aces High is fun, IL2 is fun. The prices for DCS planes are steep, but if you've played AH for a long time you've spent the same anyway.
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Which community is that?
Why don't you find out?
Google it
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Pretty much sums it up. Its a cockpit sim.
I think it's beyond comical, that some try to make 15$ a mo sound like some massive cost.
I can get a McDs hamburger meal for 15$, and it's gone in 10 minutes. This whole 15$ is this huge expense is used lemon car salesman nonsense.
DCS is a true money pit. The comparison is a joke, and insult to intelligence. Denial is a hellava a drug.
+1 +1 :aok
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Just because you like one game and don't like another doesn't mean it's a joke. DCS is fun, Aces High is fun, IL2 is fun. The prices for DCS planes are steep, but if you've played AH for a long time you've spent the same anyway.
I get everyone’s POV. If I never flew full AC set in AW or AH MP arenas I may agree more with those players. However, I’m getting a lot more for my money with AH. The price of the other sims plane only gets me a new plane. These other sims have more modern graphics. But read anywhere on forums and they can never say its more fun than AH style. I’m simply not alone in my opinion.
We also don’t bomb every negative thread with AH, by players who claim to love it, yet haven’t played in yrs and have nothing positive to say about it while we try to bring our numbers up. They hate me because my efforts work against their dream of mass migration. There is no other reason. They are a very systematic group hoping AH falls. Therefore I/we will point out the major differences. It comes down to full plane set, MP arenas, we don’t care for AI and prices. Their FMs are questionable.
Its one thing to just talk about other sims. But this group is constant trying to down play AH, up play the other sim in hopes of our demise for migration to their sim, without coming iff as doing just that, without being banned for doing so on AH bbs. We see what they are doing and simply fighting back. If we did the same on DCS bbs we’d be banned. We don’t want our fav game to die to lower our standards to appease their fav sim that lacks and more costly.
These other sims have reached their peaks and now losing numbers, for all the same reasons we state. IL-2 is losing programming talent, their days are becoming limited. On DCS forums, the same person selling it here are complaining about pricing of modules, same thing we say. WT players do not like the direction that game is taking, the same reasons we state. The only real complaint about AH is modern graphics, but these graphics are really not that bad at all. Why abandon this for sims with major issues? They can’t have large MP arenas because of their high-end graphics and massive data flow. They just can’t have both without everyone spending big money for monster machines.even that would be questionable. We don’t want to abandon our style of playing for just a few better things.
Some if us have been around long enough to be able to predict their future. We’ve seen these types of sims come and go, while we remain. AH could live forever, with some tweaking and a little TLC. Its the longest lasting sim for a reason.Those who never played our style would love it. Remember, we lost mass numbers before the great AH3 update, not before. Its my very reason to make vids to expose AH3 graphics, its not that far from other sims. If it were still AH2 we’d be over already. I’ll bet we have more return players than other sims. Every post I see refers to the best fun they ever had in a sim. I would not waste my efforts if I didn’t read them myself. Once one has played our way, nothing else matches it.most who sell those sims here won’t even go anywhere near that subject, intensionally erroneously making price the issue, when its not. MP is the major difference they can’t get. Dishonest brokers trying to kill our way.
Their sim is like buying a muscle car body with a 150 hp engine. There is no adrenaline flow. All noise no speed. We love our old skewl true muscle car with our 8 pistons the size of garbage cans.
We are speaking with reality. AW/AH MP style arenas and scenarios and other events is where its at, hands down. You can play a full game, or half a game. Your choice, your money.
DCS is a sim, not a game. AH is a sim played as a game. IL-2 and WT are about to struggle. AH arena numbers are slowly coming up with return players. And they return because of memories of so much fun. My own very reason to return.
To each their own. But don’t trash our game because their numbers are dropping. AH numbers rocketed because owners of AW train wrecked and sold us out the same time HT left WB to build this same concept. AW was the king, now AH is the longest lasting king. We hope to keep it that way. What ever help HT wants or needs we are willing to give him with our decades of experience in doing so.
:)
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I also get tired of all the Doomsayers, however they are entitles to their opinions. It just seems to me that they are being somewhat dishonest, or a lack of common courtesy, to come into "Dale's House" and start bad mouthing it and trying to drag players away. :rolleyes:
There, let the trolls respond........ :devil
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Depends on the person. At the time I left AH, the MA was so deteriorated that I was only flying Monday Night Madness and FSO. So about 3 hours a week.
I went to a popular sim and for that same $180 (granted all paid at once) I got the terrains and aircraft I was interested in. My multiplayer time increased to 12 hours a week and has stayed that way for the past two years. It reignited my passion for the hobby, had me pouring over YouTube videos, going to air museums, and got my brain matter working on learning new things. Two years later I still have not exhausted all there is to offer from the aircraft/terrains I initially bought.
In addition, I now look forward to developer newsletters that come out EVERY week and feel the strain when there is not AT LEAST one program update in a month.
Since that initial purchase I have bought other aircraft and terrains, but the cost has been about $120 compared to the $180 I would have spent on a second year of AH. So for me it has been monetarily cheaper than AH and a HUGE bargain in entertainment. Again everyone is different.
i spend 700 bucks in one year of wot. am I sorry? no. am I sorry i play ah for a fraction of the price. no.
bye, i never understand the concept of instant action of wot. there is no instant action. well unless you rush in and get killed within the first minute or two.
semp
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I also get tired of all the Doomsayers, however they are entitles to their opinions. It just seems to me that they are being somewhat dishonest, or a lack of common courtesy, to come into "Dale's House" and start bad mouthing it and trying to drag players away. :rolleyes:
There, let the trolls respond........ :devil
:aok
Agreed.
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I truly enjoy my evening hour of AH daily :airplane:
I think I am in the majority stating that on this board :aok
Thanks HT for more than 2 decades of ww2 a2a fun and excellent entertainment
:cheers:
Eagler
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I also get tired of all the Doomsayers, however they are entitles to their opinions. It just seems to me that they are being somewhat dishonest, or a lack of common courtesy, to come into "Dale's House" and start bad mouthing it and trying to drag players away.
I think there's only one, maybe two, who are really trying to pull people away from AH. I suspect the rest of the doomsayers miss the camaraderie that the AH populations has always shared, want to keep contact with their old friends, and birch about the game to cover the fact that they no longer want to pay for it. I understand that, and I'm glad they stay in touch.
But the birching is still very rude.
- oldman
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I truly enjoy my evening hour of AH daily :airplane:
I think I am in the majority stating that on this board :aok
Thanks HT for more than 2 decades of ww2 a2a fun and excellent entertainment
:cheers:
Eagler
Could you perhaps please stop doing your hour during my designated hour? :joystick: :salute
I only play between the hours 8P-12A EST, and sometimes it’s all of that time or little to never. I limit myself on purpose because I know the consequences of myself. I can very easily envision sitting down to play a quick flight at 8AM and then the next thing you know everyone is asking you what’s for dinner dad? Wait what time is it? I work form home half the week and I like my salary lol.
It’s also probably why I don’t have as much of a complaint as others. My play is at peak hours and the off hour gripes are less present. Some of you probably play this game too much and for others that’s ok. As said in soooo many other threads, find the balance that suits you. AH suits me for now.
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I might come back. Last time I drifted by my comp was not up to the task.
Now if I had an invite back into the SAPP...that would be a completely different story.
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⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⠋⠄⢠⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡴⠃⠀⣠⣤⣶⣶⣾⣶⣶⣦⣄⠀⠀⠀⠹⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠲⠴⠯⠤⠤⢶⢾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⠷⣄⢀⣀⣀⣀⡀⣼⣠⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡀⠀⠀⠸⣧⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠏⠈⠉⣡⣾⣿⠏⠀⢰⣿⠉⣩⠀⠉⢙⣿⡿⠛⠉⠉⠙⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⢻⣇⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡟⠀⠀⣿⣿⡿⠋⠀⢀⣾⡿⠀⣉⣀⣇⠘⠋⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⠀⢸⣿⡆⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠃⠀⠀⠘⢯⡀⠀⢀⣾⣿⠇⣴⠨⣿⣿⡯⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢸⣿⣷⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⡆⠀⠀⠀⠈⠻⢦⣾⣿⠏⠀⠈⢈⣝⡟⠁⣶⣾⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⡀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢻⡀⢄⣀⡀⠀⠀⠉⠁⠀⠰⣄⠀⠁⠀⠀⢀⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⣸⣿⣿⡇
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢷⡀⢹⠁⠀⢠⠶⠤⠤⢴⡾⢦⡀⠀⠀⣼⠦⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⠇
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣷⠇⠀⠀⢸⡄⠀⠀⠀⠙⢆⠙⢦⡀⠀⠀⠙⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢰⣿⡿⠋⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡟⠀⠀⠀⡟⢻⡀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢳⡀⢳⡀⠀⠀⠈⢧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⠁⠀⢀⣼⠟⠁⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⢧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢷⠀⢳⠀⠀⠀⠈⢧⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣿⣿⡏⢀⣴⠟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠇⠀⠸⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⢸⡇⠀⠀⠀⠘⣧⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⡷⠛⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⠀⠀⠀⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⡆⠀⠀⣿⠿⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠎⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⠇⠀⠀⠀⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⣏⣀⣸⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣷⠀⠈⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠻⠤⣤⣤⣤⡤⠴⠛⠛⠛⠛⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⢿⣄⣀⣠⣤⡤⠶⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀that is all
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I think there's only one, maybe two, who are really trying to pull people away from AH. I suspect the rest of the doomsayers miss the camaraderie that the AH populations has always shared, want to keep contact with their old friends, and birch about the game to cover the fact that they no longer want to pay for it. I understand that, and I'm glad they stay in touch.
But the birching is still very rude.
- oldman
Very well said OldMan I still follow the forums thought about coming back and so forth but I enjoy the other games I have been playing. But I can say nothing like AH
Mols
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I might come back. Last time I drifted by my comp was not up to the task.
Now if I had an invite back into the SAPP...that would be a completely different story.
Done
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Nothing stopping u from coming back now? Get in!
Very well said OldMan I still follow the forums thought about coming back and so forth but I enjoy the other games I have been playing. But I can say nothing like AH
Mols
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(https://i.postimg.cc/mDzNwRh3/82371b.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Now if I had an invite back into the SAPP...that would be a completely different story.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/mDzNwRh3/82371b.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Lol. :aok
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Why don't you find out?
Google it
I don't think you understand how google works.