Author Topic: Favorite parts of the State of the Union  (Read 5389 times)

Offline kappa

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Favorite parts of the State of the Union
« Reply #120 on: January 22, 2004, 12:25:19 PM »
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The states suffer because of fiscal irresponsibility during the past economic boom....it really is that simple.


Do the reasons forbid the reality?? Either way it is argured, the tax cuts by the Fed are more than made up by tax increases by the states... yes?
- TWBYDHAS

Offline Rude

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« Reply #121 on: January 22, 2004, 12:30:20 PM »
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Originally posted by kappa
Do the reasons forbid the reality?? Either way it is argured, the tax cuts by the Fed are more than made up by tax increases by the states... yes?


Not yet...their trying hard here in Kansas, but have chosen to legalize Casino's instead....what a country!

Offline kappa

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« Reply #122 on: January 22, 2004, 12:40:11 PM »
hehe yes it is.. casinos are great.. I hope its an indian tribe that is responsible.. It has happened in many places around Louisana and Mississippi.. I think its great that native americans can finally make their 'millions'...

This is my last post on the subject.. Rude I dont mean to be contridictory or judging or antagonistic.. Just sayin is all...

But casinos like state lotterys can be considered a poor tax.. Of course a tax one wouldnt have to pay.. But a tax on lower income peps because they would be the ones that predominately play and use their money on such things.. To say that the majority of people spending money on lottery tickets or at casinos are not wealthy, would be true...

And this has pretty much nothing to do with my original post.. LoL  guess I just like to see myself type.. ha!
- TWBYDHAS

Offline Toad

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« Reply #123 on: January 22, 2004, 01:13:55 PM »
Kappa, have you ever heard the line "The President proposes, the Congress disposes"?

In other words, the President proposes a budget but it is the Congress that actually approves any spending (or reduction in spending) and disbures the money. Correct?

You say Clinton "paid down the debt", right?

During the Clinton years, which Party controlled Congress?

During the Clinton years, it wasn't until '98 that there was a surplus and that was the result of the '97 agreement between Clinton and Congress a on federal budget plan to eliminate the deficit in five years.

Yet looking at the stats, you can see the deficit continued to increase, albeit slowly, despite the plan.

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34

Politicians spend money. They spend YOUR money, not theirs. It's what they do, it's their raison d'etre, it's why they seek the job.

I'm certainly not going to defend the current overboard spending spree, but I'm pretty sure folks realized the federal budget plan to eliminate the deficit in five years went down the tubes on 9/11.

The Iraq war sure isn't helping either. I haven't decided on whether it was justified as yet. I'm giving them ~5 months to find the WMD.. the actual WMD... that they said were there.

But the reality of the situation is that we're "at war". I'm not sure you can find a balanced budget or even limited/reduced federal spending during any major war in the Republic's history.

Note I'm not discussing the cause for war or justification, etc.

Just the fact that wars historically cost lots of money.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline kappa

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« Reply #124 on: January 22, 2004, 01:34:08 PM »
Toad.. in order to discuss this.. please learn and understand the difference in debt and deficit.. If I'm reading your post correctly, you are considering them as the same thing.. They are different..

Your first line was correct as far as my knowledge goes..  But take into more consideration the fact that the president drafts the budget...

Also, I do not mean to make clinton as our saviour, although I do have my ideas on the extent of this idea..

I do not mean to debate (here) how ethical our war is.. I only mean to refer to spending gone wild.. whatever the reasons, as has been previously said, the bell cant be unrung..
« Last Edit: January 22, 2004, 01:40:43 PM by kappa »
- TWBYDHAS

Offline Toad

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« Reply #125 on: January 22, 2004, 01:50:38 PM »
Kappa,

Here's the total DEBT: 7,007,932,873,054.97

Here's the recent DEFICIT: The federal budget deficit hit a record $374.2 billion in 2003. That's from CBS News.

Does that show enough understanding for you?

Clinton and Congress in '97 fnially agreed to end deficit spending if 5 years. The DEBT still went up. On 9/11, all that went out the window.

Now, do we ultimately have to pay off the annual DEFICIT or the TOTAL DEBT?

The DEBT, I think. Am I wrong?

Yeah, spending is wild. 9/11 started it, the Iraq war continued it. The bell can't be unrung.

As someone pointed out, Dasche's rebuttal suggested spending MORE than Bush had just talked about spending.

So your point about Bush is?

My point, I think, remains valid. Politicians live to spend. They live to spend YOUR money. Party affiliation makes no difference.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline kappa

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« Reply #126 on: January 22, 2004, 02:34:18 PM »
yes, your understanding is probably better than my own.. I did not mean it to be a question of intellegence.... just for clarity..

1993 saw the Clinton-Gore Deficit Reduction Plan Enacted to cut the deficit in half.. the largest deficit reduction plan in history without a single republican vote I might add...

In 1997 the deficit was practically null and for the first time in history our country and gone from a record deficit in 1992 to a record surplus in 1997.. Clinton intended to keep this surplus until social security problems could be addressed.. For the rest of Clinton's term our government opperated with a surplus...

If memory serves correct (will look up soon) Clinton had a plan to pay down half the national debt by 2015.. (All things remaining the same, which they probably wouldnt)

I side with you in the fact that politians will spend all the money they are given and in many circumstances, more...

Fiscal plans are made by the president.. Congress passes said plans.. However, the president has more control over the federal budget than any one entity....

I consider your point to be very valid. Very true.. party affiliation has less to do with responsibility than the individual doing the actions.. (hope that makes since)

My point about Bush? Bush is not a president for the people.. I let the numbers stand for themselfs.. No politician with such a disreguard of our countrie's welfare could be for the comman american..
- TWBYDHAS

Offline Toad

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« Reply #127 on: January 22, 2004, 11:58:34 PM »
Just checking.

It's not that often we agree. Wanted to make sure I had it right.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #128 on: January 23, 2004, 12:10:30 AM »
Wait a minute!

You didn't think I was agreeing with YOU did you?

No, YOU were agreeing with me!






;)



If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #129 on: January 23, 2004, 09:04:38 AM »
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Originally posted by kappa
No, one of us is seeing it wrong.. clinton was pres from 92-2000?


93-2001, to be exact, are you saying he wasn't?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline FT_Animal

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« Reply #130 on: January 23, 2004, 11:47:10 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Better justifying the sucessful removal of a hated murderous dictator than the attempted and failed removal of a stain....


Not really, not really at all,..... a stain only effects domestic boundries, if it reaches outside it's done with laughter. Creating a war on lies reaches world wide, which creates deep anger and loss of credibility.

There is a HUGE difference.

A blow-job didn't cost lives.

Animal
(Damn Bush supporters always walking around with their eyes and ears shut, claiming ignorance)

Offline FT_Animal

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« Reply #131 on: January 23, 2004, 11:55:48 AM »
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Originally posted by Westy
Why Blair?  Because IMO Blair comes across as highly intellegent He delivers an actual speech.  Blair expresses his passion and beliefs much better than Bush (like night and day) and I find that while I may not agree with what it is Blairs is saying I'm able to respect him.

 And unlike Bush, Blair doesn't stop for a quick self admiring smirk or condesceding partisan applause at the end of every other sound byte.



Compared to Blair, Bush is a mental idiot from hell, and comes off that way, because he is.

Not compared to Blair, Bush is a mental idiot from hell, and comes off that way, because he is.

Bush is the worst president the USA has ever had, at least in the last 100 years.

What else has Bush done besides start wars he cannot "honestly" justify? Zip, zero, nothing, maybe stepped backwards 3 or 4 steps. If walking backwards is an accomplishment then, by golly, he's progressing.
;-)

AnImAl

Offline FT_Animal

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« Reply #132 on: January 23, 2004, 12:04:56 PM »
There is one lines that still kills me during his say nothing speech.

"..... home building is on the rise,....."

Well folks,..... lets look at this grand daddy of a trip.

To build homes, you must have open land, the only open land left in USA is *mostly* farm land.

To build more homes means more farm land is being sold. For farm land to be sold farming is suffering or not profitable.

So while more homes are being built, farming is suffering to make way for more homes being built.

Did you ever buy an ear of corn from a house in suburbia>????

So in turn, he's really saying,....

Home building is one the rise, because Agriculture is failing.

just a thought ;-)

Animal

Offline Rude

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« Reply #133 on: January 23, 2004, 12:20:09 PM »
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
There is one lines that still kills me during his say nothing speech.

"..... home building is on the rise,....."

Well folks,..... lets look at this grand daddy of a trip.

To build homes, you must have open land, the only open land left in USA is *mostly* farm land.

To build more homes means more farm land is being sold. For farm land to be sold farming is suffering or not profitable.

So while more homes are being built, farming is suffering to make way for more homes being built.

Did you ever buy an ear of corn from a house in suburbia>????

So in turn, he's really saying,....

Home building is one the rise, because Agriculture is failing.

just a thought ;-)

Animal


This has to be one of the most stupid posts I've ever read....not only is it completely inaccurate, but lacks any thought on your part.

I'm sure you are probably a good person and would be a good friend to many....still, it would serve you best to only comment on subject matter of which you have a real working knowledge....less risk that way.

Offline FT_Animal

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« Reply #134 on: January 24, 2004, 07:04:21 AM »
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Originally posted by Rude
This has to be one of the most stupid posts I've ever read....not only is it completely inaccurate, but lacks any thought on your part.

I'm sure you are probably a good person and would be a good friend to many....still, it would serve you best to only comment on subject matter of which you have a real working knowledge....less risk that way.



What makes you think I don't know what I am talking about>?

My family has been building homes since 1957. Both my dad and brother were\are president of the plan commision. Living in the country, a lot of my friends *had* farms. So I DO see both sides of it.

The only land available for building on *here* is farm land. 70% of those farms were replaced with roof tops. Most of those farms were sold in the last 5 years.

If a farmer can get $15,000+ per acre, which he paid $800 for, what do you think is going to happen to that farm? If the owner owns 150 aces, which is a small farm, guess what, that farmer just sold and retired with $2,250,000 in his pocket. Great for the farmer, and great for the contractor he's going to make his money back x3 or x4.

This isn't really Bush's doing, and I know home building shows state of the economy. But to say one means the other is most likely happening.

Quite frankly I believe YOU don't have ANY idea what you're talking about. Other then maybe you like to hear\see yourself talk smart. Masking an insult with a compliment.

BTW, I'm sure you're a good friend to a lot of people, but sometimes it's best not to try to make someone look small to make yourself look bigger then life, especialy when you don't have a friggin clue about the subject yourself. It will save you some embarrassment in the future.

The point I made is stupid, no less stupid then you replying to it.

Animal