Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...

[Urchin]

LOL Hblair you crack me up bud  .  Well, I may as well post in this monster of a thread just to have my own opinions down forever and ever.

I like dar the way it is, for the most part.  I get bounces on folks all the time, and I get bounced to.  I don't really use the map to check for people that are gonna bounce me, I use my Hat-switch neck and check my 6 every 5-6 seconds.  I also run a quick circle to see if I can find someone else.  

I don't think the removal of dar would make it that much easier to bounce someone, in other words.  However, it would make it a helluva lot tougher to find a fight, unless you ventured to the tower and looked for a minute or so to determine where bogies are, what their heading is, etc, etc.  I don't think that would be very fun to be honest, and I prefer the inflight "super awacs map" because I can do all that while I'm climbing to intercept them.

Plane icons- I think that the plane icons really are necesary, for the reasons that some folks have outlined above (i.e. it is a concession to the fact that we can't see as well on monitors as you could in real life), and some other stuff.  I know it gets aggravating, and lord knows there are times when I should have lost someone with a move, only to have them spot my "tag" and come after me, but it balances out because I've done the exact same thing.

Things I would like to see changed with the Radar-

1.  No dot OR dar bar for enemy planes that are below 500 feet "above ground level".  I think that would be MUCH better than the system we have now, where I can look at the red bars forming up by enemy fields and know something is up.  I KNOW the British could do that in the Battle of Britain, but it is just corny  .  I'm pretty much happy with the rest of it, to be honest.

2.  I wouldnt mind seeing the "dot dar" refresh every 5 seconds as opposed to continously, I think that is a very good idea.  Plus it will give NOE fliers a chance to "disappear" if they venture above the radar level by accident.  I KNOW that it disapears now, but with the system we have now you can also track the direction they are going- and if one disappears I almost always assume he has gone below 500 feet, and stayed in the direction he was going.

[lazs1]

for an ma with fields so far apart and so many of em.... I like the dar just the way it is.   It IS the "comprimise" between realisticly hunting around for hours and having a good time.

no one likes to get to a field and find that there are 20 defenders there no or that there are only.... none...   both are boring.   even in flight dar doesn't eliminate it but it's way better to have the info in flight than to not.   talk about frustrating!

But I will comprimise... get rid of dar bars for ground vehicles.... or at least make em a different shape or something.   that is a step toward the allmighty "realism" gawd eh?

Anyone who doesn't fly finger fours on assigned missions in the MA has NO frigging business telling me what is or isn't realistic or "historical" about anything other than FM's or damage or gunnery in the ma.

the topper is tho that festabria plays a certain way... his way of flying is very unrealistic for WWII air combat and VERY few people would enjoy flying that way.   He is trying to make the arena more  compatible with his "style" of flying and beating the "realism" drum so that he can continue to fly unrealisticly in a more efficient manner.  
lazs

[AKSWulfe]

If you want it like WB, go play WB.
-SW

[Cobra]

I didn't read any of the posts in this thread.....I just wanted to add that I like donuts!

Cobra

[hblair]

So you think everybody who wants tower only dar oughta get lost?

Who'll be your CO then?

 

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by hblair:
So you think everybody who wants tower only dar oughta get lost?

Why copy what another game already does? Doesn't make sense to have two games that are identical... now does it?

 

Originally posted by hblair:
Who'll be your CO then?
 

F U! Curly has been my CO for 3 years. Our squadron isn't so fickle that radar will tear us apart.
-SW

[deSelys]

My 2 cents:

I come from WB, and although I liked the lack of radar information there (it was fun to act as GC from time to time...especially when they went flat rate), I have to admit that inflight radar doesn't spoil the game too much for me.

I just want to point out some things:
1) Inflight radar rarely helps to find a fight: if you take off without checking your map while in tower, chances are that the way to the action will be a looooooong one.
2) Most fights happen near fields, and aren't difficult to find 'visually' unless you've taken off from far away. Besides, squad/country mates can give you updates (they have interest in this if they want to see reinforcements arrive on the scene quickly). If the fight is finished before you arrive (field capture), in most case you'll have to land to go to the next big fight (maybe on the other side of the map). Again you may ask on country channel.
3) Inflight radar will help when arena has a low attendance.

If you ask me, HTC can let it the way it is. I'm used to it now.

IF I had any decision role in the radar settings, I would suggest this:
- Tower: BAR deep into nme territory (3-4 sectors), relative to alt. DOT info available at 1/2 BAR range. No BAR/DOT info if low (< 300 ft), until close to the field. Same for VH (it's useless to have BAR info on nme GV beyond the spawning point anyway...)
- Inflight: BAR info in your sector and in the 8 adjacent sector IF you are into friendly radar coverage/conditions. Same for DOT, with low refresh rate (min 10 sec). No DOT info for planes inside a 3K bubble around you (the GC has a hard time discerning you from foes/buddies).

Thanks for your time,

de Selys
Airman
332nd Flying Mongrels

PS: (For AKDejaVu's eyes only) I also want KILLSHOOTER turned off  

Honestly, I was just training to shoot at you as you're switching country soon...
<S>

[Fester']

people have mentioned how inflight radar helps the newbie find the enemy and get kills.

it may speed up their finding the enemy but they wont be getting kills from it.

9 times out of 10 if you have a newbie vectoring in on you they will most likely be killed trying to kill you because you saw them on inflight radar too.

like it or not the new players first kills in  any mmp sim are from targets that did not see them in time to evade their fire.

yep the bounce.

inflight radar is a crutch that only helps the people who have played for a while find the fight and get kills.

it helps the newbie find the bad guys but it hurts his chances of killing them

[wolf37]

hiya all:

I did not read this whole thread, but some of it.

as for visable range been 6K, yeah you can see another plane from 6K. when I was skydiving, we could see danm far from way up there, and a plane that was 6K away, we could see. Now we could not make out the plane as it is here. but you could still see a plane out there. hell on one jump I made when I was down in Florida, I was able to see the Alantic ocean one way, turn 180 degrees and see the Gulf of Mexico. Now I know that a body of water is much, much, much bigger then a plane, but it does give you ian idea.
Imean if you really want it to be as real as possable, it is the wheather that will make a diferance in the distance of visablty. on a grey cloudy day, you might not see that other plane till it is only 1K away. but on a perfect day, you can see that dot 10K or maybe a father away.

But all that aside, I think the crew at HTC's have done a great job to make it good for all that play. remember, if the newbies can'nt find the fighting, they will not stay and the game will slowly die off. and the only way I can think of making as real as it was. Is to wait till we have vertual reallity helments of some kind. so that when you turn your head, you see what is over that way as well as the helments shield like screen is only two or three inch's from your nose, so it can be made to look as real as possable for a flight sim. I think.

But the icons are needed to help the new people out or they wont stay. and if the new people dont stay, the game will die. the icons are needed if the game is to grow.

well that is what I think on the topic of icons.

[DeeZCamp]

Good point fester... it leads them to the slaughter...

Maybe thats what their after though..    

[eskimo2]

Fester,
You kill us experienced folks 9+ out of 10 times. I think you are too far removed to have a clue what newbies are thinkin.

Last night I saw a bish 109, that was 125 miles from the nearest bish base, circle an empty base for 5 minutes, then dive into the ack and compress straight into the ground.
I assumed, he was a newbie.  Even with Dar he couldn't find the enemy.
I bet we would see this from all newbies quite often with less dar info.

Newbie or old time junkie, most folks want to get into a scrap - now!

Live or die,
Ho or fight,
All's well as long as the sweat on my palms doesn't dry.

eskimo