Author Topic: Furballer v. Strat  (Read 1444 times)

Offline nopoop

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Furballer v. Strat
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2003, 06:51:33 PM »
Just alittle sidebar that I found interesting. Far from a scientific experiment but..

It's interesting to see the "time in game" for the respective contributors in the furball/strat arguments.

Looking over last tours "hours" it was interesting.

A strat proponent such as Rshubert spent 101 hours playing ingame.

Lazs on the other hand who likes to furball spent 26 hours ingame..

Jamusta...180 hours...Leviathn 21
Fariz..84...Apache...22
Beet1e..41...nopoop..17

Nah, doesn't mean anything..
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2003, 07:02:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by nopoop
Just alittle sidebar that I found interesting. Far from a scientific experiment but..

It's interesting to see the "time in game" for the respective contributors in the furball/strat arguments.

Looking over last tours "hours" it was interesting.

A strat proponent such as Rshubert spent 101 hours playing ingame.

Lazs on the other hand who likes to furball spent 26 hours ingame..

Jamusta...180 hours...Leviathn 21
Fariz..84...Apache...22
Beet1e..41...nopoop..17

Nah, doesn't mean anything..


And one of the most ardent supporters of Strat play...me...

19 hours, 37 mins. What's your point?

Offline nopoop

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« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2003, 07:30:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
And one of the most ardent supporters of Strat play...me...

19 hours, 37 mins. What's your point?


You need to get a life.

I had over two more hours of a real life than you did.

Do you have any idea what you can do in 2+ hours ????

I spend those extra two hours in a tanning booth..

A far more interesting time stat that would be to see what the average time is per...."time on."

I usually fly 45min to an hour. Doesn't vary much. The little window. The days of 4-6 hour marathons are from the past.

The relationship to time available in a "block" to the form of play is what interests me. But no real way to gather that information.
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2003, 09:20:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by nopoop
You need to get a life.

I had over two more hours of a real life than you did.

Do you have any idea what you can do in 2+ hours ????

I spend those extra two hours in a tanning booth..


hehe...

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2003, 04:25:32 AM »
Why would anyone living in CA need to spend time in a tanning booth?
:confused:

Offline OIO

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« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2003, 06:29:05 AM »
Lazs, you did not describe your idea of a furball as being take-off and start HO'ing the cons at 500ft. You said it was "...an equal or nearly equal number of players on each side meeting somewher between two close fields.. both sides have a chance of RTB after mixing it up".

Your 3 requirements:

1) equal or almost equal number of players on each side
2) meeting between 2 close fields
3) chance to rtb after mixing it up

cannot be met if fields are half a sector or less apart.

#1 in the MA does not happen, especially on 3-sided war, you will literally be always outnumbered 2:1 if all 3 sides have equal numbers.
#2 The meeting part near 2 close fields (it'd be more realistic to say 3 fields) would mean concentrating a large number of planes in an area that they cannot possibly be able to get altitude to fight.. unless you fly the other direction, climb and come around.. which is no different from taking off from a rear field in the first place (aka, strat player's modus operandi). So you will definetely get a jousting tournament at less than 5k alt (and thats being generous). while being outnumbered 2:1 in a 3-field, 3-sided war enviroment. So this requirement of yours can be met, but it conflicts between the other 2 because of said 2:1 ration in 3-sided war.
#3 Jousting and RTBing are almost exclusive of each other. Add to it a 2:1 odds against you in 3 sided war and your chances of RTBing are minimal.

Not to mention that if its dogfighting or even a hint of ACM that you're looking for in these furballs, you wont find any in the jousting setup, as you will very likely take off (if you arent vulched) and have to start turning vs opponents after you raise gears.

Im just trying to get a sense of what the heck you want in the game. Im trying to make my map work for both gameplay styles, you are my research subject! Speak up :)

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2003, 07:29:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by najdorf
 Also, I think dogfiting is a more difficult and rewarding aspect of the game than level bombing, JABO, or base capture.  I do those things as a change of pace or when I'm up on squad nite and that's the mission.  I enjoy it, but, it ain't dogfitin'.

 



I sometimes find ground attack sorties to be just as challenging and sometimes even more than dogfighting.  Try fighting your way to the target fully loaded with ordinance, attack the target that's crawling with field AAA and flak panzies, destroy your target and exit out without getting a scratch and just to piss of the flak panzies that are all over the field, vulch a few planes while the flak panzies try to shoot you down.

It pretty much just boils down to what floats your boat.  Some like just dogfighting, some just like strat/A2G and some others like both.  Doesn't mean one is less skilled or it's less fun than the other.


Ack-Ack
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2003, 08:18:25 AM »
OIO... you really do not know what I am talking about.

1.. equal or about equal numbers do exist in furballs between close fields or cv's believe me or ask anyone who has participated in okinawa or other type events in the CT... even if the numbers are lopsided somewhat, 5/3 say, it matters LESS in a furball than in spread out combat between large distances.

2...alt... who cares if you furball?  I spend 99% of my time below 5K.. if anyone wants to kill me they have to come down to do it no big deal.  they can't hurt me with a bunch of stored energy up there.   anyone who didn't want to participate in the furball could take off from a farther field and get all the friggin alt that made him feel secure.  In this current "challenge" I am flying every fighter in the sert and not exceeding 6k or less than 5 K/hour and killing at least one plane and landing the kill in each.

3... you have no clue.   I am very aggressive (i know, hard to believe eh?) and... I run a 4 or 5 to one K/D.  It would be more if I had a chance of dissengaging in my slow planes and RTB... jousting is the fun but surviving such a joust is really neat.   I like to average about 10 kills per hour or more and RTB or ditch.

so... trying to figure this out... are you for or against more close fields?   If you leave out close fields then you are defacto forcing people to fly a certain timid way and to allways use the fastest and biggest armed planes... planes they can grab alt... wait for a cherry to pick and then run away in... forceing people to gangbang or be gangbanged.

I have no interest in any map you would build that had fields more than a sector apart.  please don't say it "has something for everyone" if you do... at least be honest about it.
lazs

Offline OIO

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« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2003, 09:17:32 AM »
1.. Okinawa and all CT events are 2 sided war, not 3 sided. Im talking about the MA. You seem to constantly ignore this.

2.. read my 2nd point again. This requirement of yours was met, but it does not work with the other 2 because of the 3 sided issue. If you have 3 fields within visual distance of each other (a-la okinawa) launching planes, you will never have "equal or close to equal numbers" and to boot it will end up being a race to spray the most cannon in the air.

3..You may like jousting, but not everyone likes it. Which brings up the last part, which I can use your own words:

"...If you leave out close fields then you are defacto forcing people to fly a certain way (jousting) and to allways use the fastest and biggest armed planes... planes they can turn the best... (read:spit,n1k,la7,tiffie) wait for a snapshot or HO joust and repeat till they die... forcing people to gangbang or be gangbanged. (this last part is hilarious since furballs ARE gangbangs)"

Try to reply without that attitude please, it gets you nowhere really fast.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2003, 02:30:26 PM »
OIO... you seriously have never been in a furball in the MA have you?   I used the CT as an example but... the MA has some fields that are about what I have suggested distance wise.. it also has cv battles that are in effect close fields...

Those fights are the best furballs... everyone meets somewhere in the middle to attack or defend and the fight moves back and forth.... sometimes one side has more numbers sometimes the other but it matters not since you can only be concerned with the clump you are trying your best to keep track of.

2...how do you figure?   you won't allways be in sight of two different countries fields and even if you are... how does that guarentee that you will be fighting both?  just because they are both red does not mean that they will ignore each other and go after you... that is silly... as for the alt... who cares?   why do you care what alt the fight is at???  if you want to enter with alt... do it..  if not... don't.. what's the big deal?  Only the very forward fields will be 3 country anyway... otherwise it is essentially a two country war.

3.. Who cares if not everyone likes jousting... they have CHOICE  they can go somewhere else... someplace that appreciates them with some real "strat" value.   the rest of your reply is drivel and missquote or missunderstand.   It appears that a map by you would be worthless to me.
lazs

Offline ccvi

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« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2003, 03:26:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
... the whole thing from liftoff to touchdown taking say... 6-10 minutes.   More time is ok if the fights are good and I have to make it home shot up with guys on my tail..   I like to be about out of fuel and ammo at the same time..  mostly ammo for me tho..


Why do you complain about fuel beeing porked then? If you want to run out of fuel after 10 minutes you can't take much more than 25% anyway.

Offline ccvi

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« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2003, 03:36:26 PM »
Another thought...

when it happens that I'm flying below 5k fighting, I usually read a names I have never read before - either a completely different culture or maybe just new players. If the latter is true, I think this is why lasz likes flying down there...

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2003, 08:16:35 AM »
ccvi... note I said that I run out of ammo first and that I am "about" out of fuel... I  like close fights that 25% is allmost enough but they rarely happen.  Man... find me, build me, an MA where you could allways find a good furball with 25% fuel and I would love it.

As for different culture... maybe.  the guys that fly at 15k or more certainly are a different "culture" as you say... on the rare times (bored witless) that i climb up to em I notice that they are very ah... timid.  They act like anything close to an enemy getting an energy equal is cause for running away... ya gotta fool em into thiniking they still have a huge advantage.... If they bother to fight.. they die..

contrast this to the low guys who allmost allways give you a decent fight.

It's allmost like every newbie heard "alt is life" and believed it.
lazs
« Last Edit: June 06, 2003, 08:19:09 AM by lazs2 »

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2003, 08:27:16 AM »
I've enjoyed reading the posts in this thread, but it's starting to get tedious, with the same old material being recycled.

Buh Bye.

Offline Grizzly

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« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2003, 01:31:00 PM »
There are mindless furballs where two sides meet in a cluster for no other reason than to fight. There are semi-furballs where the enemy meet somewhere between two bases as they attempt to attack the other base. Then there are the non-furballs where one intercepts an attack inbound. The former usually has a static location, and the latter can happen anywhere, between any two bases, or right over a base. The former IMHO can get boring real quick, and the latter keep me entertained all night. It can't be pinned down, and each is a valid play style.

There always are a number of cherry pickers in a furball. But these folks are missing out on the intense fight going on below. Many scout the edges for easy prey. Others swoop into the midst of the battle and zoom back out to safety. I generally doubt many who carry a respectable kill ratio actually wade into the action often.

Very seldom have I seen a three country furball. These can only happen in select locations. But maybe I just don't fly there.

There is a problem with numbers in furballs. mostly the type where sides are trying to attack the other base. Though the fight may start relatively even, in time one side or the other will call in additional players for help. Or players join in as they find out where the fight is. Often it turns into a mass attack on the other base, and the fun is over. I fear this is aggravated by the "pork the arena" mentality.

All types of game play are great if those playing are having fun. IMO, the only time it becomes an issue is when they interfere with each other... it's like playing baseball and football on the same field.

BTW, WTG Bish on your lame reset yesterday >=oP