Author Topic: It's not fine the way it is. . . (Read 3545 times)

phookat · « **Reply #120 on:** August 12, 2004, 01:40:34 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
Duels are for the DA, capture missions are for the MA. Don't worry, you're not the only one who's still not figured that out!

Everything is for the MA, not just capture missions.

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Originally posted by beet1e
I don't agree with that. Your statement presupposes a large attendance in the MA, which suggests that you never play outside the hours of US prime time.

My statements apply to large arena attendance. Your statements indicate that you do not fly when large numbers are online.

I also occasionally fly when arena attendance is low. And I have no trouble finding small fights on small-spaced maps at those times.

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Originally posted by beet1e
Furthermore, if conveyor belting WAS always taking place, there would be long green or red bardars present on the map at all times, identifying the active locations, and we wouldn't have so many people whining that they can't find a fight on the pizza map.

This theory doesn't account for the facts. Since you don't actually fly during the crowded hours, I submit that you are not actually aware of what the facts are. To repeat, the facts are these: on large-spaced maps you have hordes and very little else. On small-spaced maps, you have numerous large and small fights.

You can keep talking about what we should and shouldn't do, but it doesn't change what actually happens as a result of large- or small-spacing.

But stepping back from this again, it is clear that some people like large-spaced maps for whatever reason, and some like small-spaced maps for whatever reason. So the solution is...

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Originally posted by beet1e
As for FesterMA, you may have a valid point. I did play on that after the outer fields had been spaced out. I enjoyed OZK even more because it had more CVs, therefore more places from which to fly an F4U. I stayed away from that central furball area.

This.

Grizzly · « **Reply #121 on:** August 12, 2004, 01:41:13 PM »

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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I know for a fact from the radio that on many occasions FH's are intentionally left up during many base attacks simply to allow fighters to launch to be vultched. The only tangible gain from this is perk points.

Were the Blood Pig and the Death Star created to win perk points? Was there no vulching before perk points were invented? You've never grinned when you heard your victim cry like a little girlie man? You've never clubbed a seal for the shear pleasure of it? You are the DoKtor of Hate... you of all people know the happiness that evil brings. I maintain that the perks only sweeten the pot.

beet1e · « **Reply #122 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:29:13 PM »

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Originally posted by phookat
This theory doesn't account for the facts. Since you don't actually fly during the crowded hours, I submit that you are not actually aware of what the facts are.

What does that mean? That USPT events are somehow more factual than non-USPT events? I don't agree. USPT is what - from about 7pm Western/10pm Eastern and for the next 2 hours? That's 3am till 5am here. You're right, I'm very rarely on at those times. Do you stay up playing AH till 5am where you live?

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To repeat, the facts are these: on large-spaced maps you have hordes and very little else.

In that case, why are there so many whine threads about "not being able to find a fight on pizza"? (not that I agree with people who say that)

I do agree that maps like the ones Fester has done are a good thing. But do we want the same map the whole time?

X2Lee · « **Reply #123 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:30:22 PM »

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Originally posted by Grizzly
Were the Blood Pig and the Death Star created to win perk points? Was there no vulching before perk points were invented? You've never grinned when you heard your victim cry like a little girlie man? You've never clubbed a seal for the shear pleasure of it? You are the DoKtor of Hate... you of all people know the happiness that evil brings. I maintain that the perks only sweeten the pot.

Yeah either Doks gone soft or hes fullachit

I say the latter ;->

Shane · « **Reply #124 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:32:39 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
According to your stats on Innominate's website, you have 5 kills/8 deaths in the P47D30, 37 kills/18 deaths in the P47D11, and don't appear to have flown the P47D25 at all. Such a short career span in the P47 type would certainly explain why you thought that engaging a Spit & N1K simultaneously would have been a good idea in a P47. I have flown the P47 type rather more than you have, and knew that such an engagement would see those guys running rings around me if I were to have attempted a turn fight. You need to remember that not every plane can be flown like a SpitV.

uhhh d11 is quite capable at tnb with spits and nikis... i can tell by your limited experience with tnb why you might not think it was such a good idea.

SlapShot · « **Reply #125 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:33:04 PM »

Let me know if you can find anything wrong with that in the AH rule book.

AH Rule Book

Pg 45 ... section 2 ... sub-section 28 ... item 12 ... point 22 says :

You must stop whining about La-7s ... it's getting real fargin old and stale ... you must now use either the 109 or 190 in your posts from now on !!!

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #126 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:40:12 PM »

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Originally posted by Grizzly
Were the Blood Pig and the Death Star created to win perk points? Was there no vulching before perk points were invented? You've never grinned when you heard your victim cry like a little girlie man? You've never clubbed a seal for the shear pleasure of it? You are the DoKtor of Hate... you of all people know the happiness that evil brings. I maintain that the perks only sweeten the pot.

Indeed.

But you miss the elegant savagery of the Blood Pig. And that was that it only took a couple of really skilled people to induce massive amounts of Hate. When the Dragon went after a field, it usually acted more or less alone. No Horde was needed. We flew those big birds for all they were worth.

When it's just one anonymous Jabo-ing drooler after another starfing your base, it all blurs together. It happens constantly, every night.

And when The Horde descends it's obviously time to take off elsewhere. But when it's only a couple of attack bombers lazily orbitting overhead - and you think you can lauch and get some easy kills on 'em - and those bombers then swoop down and treat you like Ned Beaty on a river-rafting weekend getaway ... well THAT is Hate. And when you get 3 or 4 of your buddies all trying to launch to "get even" it's even better.

As someone else posted: "Horde = Bored."

beet1e · « **Reply #127 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:41:54 PM »

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Originally posted by Shane
uhhh d11 is quite capable at tnb with spits and nikis... i can tell by your limited experience with tnb why you might not think it was such a good idea.

I wasn't in a D11. I was in a D25.

:D

Slapshot! - LOL!! I love ya, dude.

phookat · « **Reply #128 on:** August 12, 2004, 06:34:20 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
What does that mean? That USPT events are somehow more factual than non-USPT events? I don't agree. USPT is what - from about 7pm Western/10pm Eastern and for the next 2 hours? That's 3am till 5am here. You're right, I'm very rarely on at those times. Do you stay up playing AH till 5am where you live?

I do not recall playing a large-spaced map when the numbers are low. I will take your word for it that you can find small fights on those maps at that time. However, I do occasionally play on small-spaced maps when numbers are low, and I can find small fights there too.

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Originally posted by beet1e
In that case, why are there so many whine threads about "not being able to find a fight on pizza"? (not that I agree with people who say that)

Because, when the attendance is large, there aren't any fights. There are only hordes, that is to say "large monocolor blobs". This is a steady-state phenomenon on large-spaced maps. I do not see how you are in a position to agree or disagree with this, since you don't play when attendance is large.

Honestly...if we could find any reasonable fights on a large-spaced map during USPT on at least a semi-regular basis, I highly doubt anyone would be complaining. I'm not just making this up--this is definitely how it is. I've also given you a reasonable explanation for it.

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Originally posted by beet1e
I do agree that maps like the ones Fester has done are a good thing. But do we want the same map the whole time?

Not nececssarily, but all the maps should have both large- and small-spacing to accomodate both tastes.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #129 on:** August 12, 2004, 07:13:02 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
You need to remember that not every plane can be flown like a SpitV.

A P-38 can be...in the right hands of course.

ack-ack

Grizzly · « **Reply #130 on:** August 12, 2004, 09:40:15 PM »

And there it is folks. Note the subtlety that sweetens the hate to give it a sharp edge to cut deep. The sublime evil. This is your heritage. =o)

Nice having you back sir

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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Indeed.

But you miss the elegant savagery of the Blood Pig. And that was that it only took a couple of really skilled people to induce massive amounts of Hate. When the Dragon went after a field, it usually acted more or less alone. No Horde was needed. We flew those big birds for all they were worth.

When it's just one anonymous Jabo-ing drooler after another starfing your base, it all blurs together. It happens constantly, every night.

And when The Horde descends it's obviously time to take off elsewhere. But when it's only a couple of attack bombers lazily orbitting overhead - and you think you can lauch and get some easy kills on 'em - and those bombers then swoop down and treat you like Ned Beaty on a river-rafting weekend getaway ... well THAT is Hate. And when you get 3 or 4 of your buddies all trying to launch to "get even" it's even better.

As someone else posted: "Horde = Bored."

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #131 on:** August 12, 2004, 09:53:31 PM »

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Originally posted by Grizzly
And there it is folks. Note the subtlety that sweetens the hate to give it a sharp edge to cut deep. The sublime evil. This is your heritage. =o)

Nice having you back sir

Thanks.

I actually posted something about how we used the Blood Dragon on my site recently. This was in my archives for a long while and I finally got around to publishing it: An Ackstar Is Born

beet1e · « **Reply #132 on:** August 13, 2004, 03:45:03 AM »

Phookat -

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I will take your word for it that you can find small fights on those maps at that time. However, I do occasionally play on small-spaced maps when numbers are low, and I can find small fights there too.

Originally posted by beet1e. In that case, why are there so many whine threads about "not being able to find a fight on pizza"? (not that I agree with people who say that)
Because, when the attendance is large, there aren't any fights. There are only hordes, that is to say "large monocolor blobs". This is a steady-state phenomenon on large-spaced maps. I do not see how you are in a position to agree or disagree with this, since you don't play when attendance is large.

Honestly...if we could find any reasonable fights on a large-spaced map during USPT on at least a semi-regular basis, I highly doubt anyone would be complaining. I'm not just making this up--this is definitely how it is. I've also given you a reasonable explanation for it.[/b]

Well, you've taken me at my word for on larger maps like pizza during periods of low attendance, so I feel I must accept what you say about the situation during high attendance. Hordes but no fights? What do these hordes do then? Just fly around, or do they milkrun bases? The front line is spread out, so if folks fly hordes, it follows that each team has large numbers of its men in one place, leaving many other bases alongs its front to be milkrun by the other team. Is that the way it is? I would be interested to see films and/or mapshots showing this - if ever we get a large map back into rotation for longer than 5 minutes.

Crashy · « **Reply #133 on:** August 13, 2004, 09:21:16 AM »

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Originally posted by Grizzly
And there it is folks. Note the subtlety that sweetens the hate to give it a sharp edge to cut deep. The sublime evil. This is your heritage. =o)

Nice having you back sir

What the Grizz said....

Thought it was you from some previous posts I'd read but wasnt sure....

This removed any doubt

But you miss the elegant savagery of the Blood Pig. And that was that it only took a couple of really skilled people to induce massive amounts of Hate

phookat · « **Reply #134 on:** August 13, 2004, 09:47:13 AM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
Phookat - Well, you've taken me at my word for on larger maps like pizza during periods of low attendance, so I feel I must accept what you say about the situation during high attendance. Hordes but no fights? What do these hordes do then? Just fly around, or do they milkrun bases? The front line is spread out, so if folks fly hordes, it follows that each team has large numbers of its men in one place, leaving many other bases alongs its front to be milkrun by the other team. Is that the way it is? I would be interested to see films and/or mapshots showing this - if ever we get a large map back into rotation for longer than 5 minutes.

Yep, this is what happens. Large hordes milkrunning bases. If we get a large-spaced map online, I can definitely show you this. But I'd rather skip it and go straight to FesterMA or something like it, even if it means I can't prove this to you.