Author Topic: 1/2 year evaluation: Ki-84 (Read 2397 times)

Guppy35 · « **Reply #60 on:** June 03, 2005, 10:58:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
L does not stand a chance (given equal pilots). It does not respond like the G. You did not get lucky last night. These fights are won by the guy that makes the less mistakes. Its not luck you flew better than me on the first two. Also, on the last two I changed tactiks. I came at 300 or less, instead of the 350 or more on the first 2.

Interesting enough, I watched the films and noticed that the speed advantage of the Ki was clearly evident. In general it seemed to accelerate a lot faster then my 38G and had about 50mph edge all the time.

Definately a fun way to learn something new

And of course it was get whacked by Ki84s night for me anyway as my first two flights I got clobbered by 84s.

Gonna have to figure out a way to counter the change in tactics for next time

Dan/CorkyJr

Widewing · « **Reply #61 on:** June 03, 2005, 12:06:24 PM »

Here's my take on the Ki-84:

First, I like it very much and have had very good results with it.

Flown wisely, you can turn fight with anything short of the Zekes, and still give the A6M5 driver a major dose of angst because the Hayate is vastly better in the pure vertical.

I prefer the Ki-84 to the N1K2, which it will dominate at low speeds.

Beware of high speed dives, trim manually and exploit its terrific roll rate. Its gun package is good if not great.

I find the P-38J and Ki-84 a very good match with pilot skill being the determining factor. However, be advised that between 175 and 250 mph, any P-38 model out-turns the Ki-84. At any speed, the P-38G can turn with it. However, the Ki-84 can take the fight vertical at low speeds and gain the advantage. Not so against the P-38J or L. However, the Ki-84 has an edge in low speed turning against those. Just remember this; in a pure vertical climb, the Ki-84 WILL NOT get away from a Co-E P-38G. This type of climb is a zoom climb, and the P-38G zoom climbs better than the Ki-84 due to its greater mass. REN and I discovered this dueling a few months ago.

As for Spitfires, the Ki-84 is better in the vertical and can out-turn the SpitIX. I'd give a slight edge to the SpitV in pure flat turns, but the Ki-84 is far superior in the vertical, which easily offsets this.

Acceleration is good, but not spectacular. Climb is very good until that short WEP cycle becomes a factor.

All in all, I feel very secure when flying the Ki-84 as it one of the best non-perked fighters in the plane set.

It's not an easy plane to fly effectively, requiring trimming and close monitoring at high speeds. That is why the N1K2 is more popular. However, the more skilled the pilot, the more likely he will take the Ki-84 over the Niki.

My regards,

Widewing

Guppy35 · « **Reply #62 on:** June 03, 2005, 12:13:04 PM »

Quote

I find the P-38J and Ki-84 a very good match with pilot skill being the determining factor. However, be advised that between 175 and 250 mph, any P-38 model out-turns the Ki-84. At any speed, the P-38G can turn with it. However, the Ki-84 can take the fight vertical at low speeds and gain the advantage. Not so against the P-38J or L. However, the Ki-84 has an edge in low speed turning against those. Just remember this; in a pure vertical climb, the Ki-84 WILL NOT get away from a Co-E P-38G. This type of climb is a zoom climb, and the P-38G zoom climbs better than the Ki-84 due to its greater mass. REN and I discovered this dueling a few months ago.

That was clearly evident when flying against Dedalos. When it got real slow, he was able to take the fight vertical and I couldn't hang with him in the 38G. I could definately turn with the 84 though

Dan/CorkyJr

dedalos · « **Reply #63 on:** June 03, 2005, 02:02:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
That was clearly evident when flying against Dedalos. When it got real slow, he was able to take the fight vertical and I couldn't hang with him in the 38G. I could definately turn with the 84 though

Dan/CorkyJr

I've been flying it for about a month and what I have seen is that if you manage to get the fight into really slow speeds, the KI has the advantage over everything cept the dreaded SpitV and A6M. The fast planes cant excelerate fast enough to get away (event the LA7) before you get a shot, and the turneres cannot follow you up.

pellik · « **Reply #64 on:** June 03, 2005, 02:30:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
That was clearly evident when flying against Dedalos. When it got real slow, he was able to take the fight vertical and I couldn't hang with him in the 38G. I could definately turn with the 84 though

Dan/CorkyJr

Try the J.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #65 on:** June 03, 2005, 02:32:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by pellik
Try the J.

It's against my religion

Although I'd like to see you in action against the Ki84 in that 38J of doom you fly.

Dan/CorkyJr
Founder/member "Disciples of the P38G"

dedalos · « **Reply #66 on:** June 03, 2005, 03:31:46 PM »

Don't confuse your onw abilities with the plane you fly. You will probablu kill me in the J. Means nothing. You could probably kill me as easyly in any other plane.

BlkKnit · « **Reply #67 on:** June 03, 2005, 06:04:18 PM »

OK dedalos, your talking about "up". I guess I am doing it wrong (what else is new

)

This past weekend I was in a 84 and ran into 3 enemies, a F4U (1D model I think), a C205 and ....um...and.....um...oh yeah, another KI84. Anyway, got them to start turning with me, F4U making bouncing passes and finally leaving me to the other 2. I managed to get full flaps down and turn slow..finally got a shot on the 205 and pegged him. Then it on the water slow turn, slow turn until I managed to get the 84...never won a 2 on 1 in my life until then.....headed home and got bounced (F4U again I think) Point is, if I try anything vertical I get lots of holes in my airplane pretty quick. At that slow speed, are you using flaps when you go vert? Are you faster than flap deployment speed? Whats up?

OK, granted I stink on ice, but you'd think i might manage to pull it off once.

SuperDud · « **Reply #68 on:** June 03, 2005, 07:42:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BlkKnit
OK dedalos, your talking about "up". I guess I am doing it wrong (what else is new )

This past weekend I was in a 84 and ran into 3 enemies, a F4U (1D model I think), a C205 and ....um...and.....um...oh yeah, another KI84. Anyway, got them to start turning with me, F4U making bouncing passes and finally leaving me to the other 2. I managed to get full flaps down and turn slow..finally got a shot on the 205 and pegged him. Then it on the water slow turn, slow turn until I managed to get the 84...never won a 2 on 1 in my life until then.....headed home and got bounced (F4U again I think) Point is, if I try anything vertical I get lots of holes in my airplane pretty quick. At that slow speed, are you using flaps when you go vert? Are you faster than flap deployment speed? Whats up?

OK, granted I stink on ice, but you'd think i might manage to pull it off once.

1st off, do you have stall limiter on? With it on, at a slow enough speed it won't allow you to go up. Also, going "up" doesn't just mean a pure over the top loop, it can be as simple as adding an up and down "current" to your turn(if you get what I mean?) I know that the F4U can hang with the KI well, me and Redd tested it so no surprise that one was tough. I don't know much about the 205 though. Also, against 2 aircraft at once it becomes a different ball game. Against either of those planes 1vs1 the verticle probably woulda worked. But against 2, while you're hanging there fighting 1 in the verticle, the other can sneak in and get ya. That falls more into the SA department and figuring what would be the best manuver to avoid/kill your 2 opponents. If you want to test the KI's ablitiies, go to the DA and fight someone 1vs1 with it, I think you'll be surprised.

BlkKnit · « **Reply #69 on:** June 03, 2005, 09:11:25 PM »

Thanks SD, I did do a bit of up down in the turn, but no over the top. I did go over the top earlier today, but against a spit V ( I lost

) while there were about 6 or 7 others all after me too. I pinged up 3 of 'em but didn't get a kill out of it. I do really like this plane, I just see you guys talkin about flying it in a way that I have been unable to do.

Had a similar fight to the one i mentioned above this afternoon, 3 on 1, I got one and did a lot of up and down, again without any over the top stuff. I do enjoy those fights when I can stay alive for a bit and make it interesting.

In that fight I was talkin about, both the KI84 and the 205 were turning with me about as slow as i could go, flaps down and buzzer goin off constantly. I dont use stall limiter, have not in a couple of years.