Great FSO

[DREDger]

Our squad was flying avacados, we never saw a single enemy plane, about an hour and  half round trip.  Then we missed our target for the most part.  The orders said the bombs will carry west, but I didn't realize that would be an entire town length west.

[toadkill]

You know i was looking at teh wind in E6B, and if that system works correctly the wind was blowing in the wrong direction at 18-22k, My clipboard read 090 at 28, ords/objs said it would be 135 at 28mph.

[Valkyrie]

This is very interesting. The axis were saying this was going to be a cake walk for them before, now they complain that they are illsuited to the task. From what I saw in my area flying a P-51 and observing 109 and 262 runs they didn't fly their crafts well at all. The command and control in our sector was concerned about early diction an were out of position as the kill aircraft (temps) blew their assignment. The 234 runs were not coordinated with themselves or their cover. This was either a poorly planned or probably just a poorly executed attack on their target. As to the AoM they die all the time and though they are good they will have off nights. My money is that this was just a night were they were outa position before the event even started. I promise you they will more than likely be in position next week to make a few more scores.


Vlkyrie

[Kermit de frog]

Sorry to hear that 1-2 squadrons on the allied side saw no action.  You can review the orders for frame 1 and see the number of pilots at each location and determine how the map was spread out.  Some areas had more and some had less.  The squadrons that did not see any action were small in size.  Overall, nearly all allied pilots saw action.  The defense groups that communicated well should have all seen action.  The axis may not have sent in enough planes to the targets on the ground for the allied defense to be happy.

The axis may not have used their rides in the best mannor.  For the allied, lots of thought went into which tool each squad would receive and what their job would be.  How they utilized their tool was up to them.  Fighting on the deck in sectors alpha, bravo, charlie and delta would only have helped the axis.  Certain Plane combinations were done on purpose with multiple squads in the same area.  Squads working together would only have complimented each other in combat.

Fighting a 109k below 30k in Bravo and Charlie Sectors, where the only airspace required to operate was at 30-40k, was pointless. 

262s by themselves are only a nuisance.  Better served as close escorts for the ar234 or as a complimentary squad to another squad in a different fighter such as a me109.  The higher the 234's operate, the lower their hit percentage will be due to less time for calibration and lining up for the target.  The lower they are, the easier it will be for the allied planes to acheive 2 passes.  So, the axis may want to send in 109s to compete at alts below 20k, as early fighter sweeps.  Then send in the 262s over the ar234s minutes behind the 109s.  109s can tnb with the tempest and P51s. The 262s can pick off any slow and high fighters they encounter fighting the allied.  The 262s can also help the 109s exit the area after the bombing is done.

Sending 109s and me262s above 30k is pointless.  Not using all the ta152s above 30k would be a misallocation of resources imo.  Perhaps if 109s were sent to the 30-40k sectors, they would only to be there for the fight after it's pushed down below 30k since past experience shows most will happily dive to the deck in their High Alt fighters.  Only more discipline would be able to defeat such a tactic.

What happens next is up to the CiCs for frame 2 and the COs of each squadron.  Are the axis having a slow start in their offensive plan or are they doomed to repeat another BoB outcome of the past?

[lambo31]

The defense groups that communicated well should have all seen action.  The axis may not have sent in enough planes to the targets on the ground for the allied defense to be happy.

As one of the defenders that saw little action I can say it wasn't because of a lack of communication. Infact, SK's, HFG's and Righteous Vengeance forced me to communicate a lot more that what I'm accustomed to in SEA. All the squads defending the city tuned to each others text channel to increase communication and I think it worked a little to well. I don't know how many planes the Axis originally sent our way but we only saw about 10 total, maybe there were more sent and just got shot down before they could make it in. But, I think because of the communication involved between the squads is why only 1 262 made it out and even he took some hits.
  I don't think anyone is to blame for us seeing little action, that's just the nature of FSO. Sometimes your overwhelmed, sometimes you fly for 2 hours without seeing anything.


Lambo

[humble]

This is very interesting. The axis were saying this was going to be a cake walk for them before, now they complain that they are ill suited to the task. From what I saw in my area flying a P-51 and observing 109 and 262 runs they didn't fly their crafts well at all. The command and control in our sector was concerned about early diction an were out of position as the kill aircraft (temps) blew their assignment. The 234 runs were not coordinated with themselves or their cover. This was either a poorly planned or probably just a poorly executed attack on their target. As to the AoM they die all the time and though they are good they will have off nights. My money is that this was just a night were they were outa position before the event even started. I promise you they will more than likely be in position next week to make a few more scores.


Vlkyrie

Actually alot of folks commented that the 262 is unsuited for this type of role. As one of the 109K drivers all I can say is that we were jumped by a minimum of 3 squads (3 diff plane types), all of whom came rolling in in waves from at least 35K. I got caught in a combination of badly timed wife ack and a tough situation. I was clearing my wingman and trying to pull for a shot on a pony when the wife popped in...ARGHHH...just in that brief moment I was in a nose down full power orientation looking for a shot...blacked out, compressed....POOF.

Given the overall survival of the Arados I cant fault the plan, they just didnt hit the targets (which at that speed, alt & wind is tough to do with manual calibration). We were supposed to draw the CAP to us (and boy did we). While the 109K is certainly effective 1 on 1 vs a jug, pony or tempest at high alt it is surprisingly ineffective at the squad level since it really cant maintain alts over 32k with any maneuvering.

[keeler]

Attending FSO with the Killuminati, our task was to kill 234s on there way to the troop factory. The plan was very dependent on early warning which we failed to receive. Among other factors, as 3-4 262s that came in at
25k harassed us giving the 234s a big break .  They hit the troop factory coming in from NW were we had no cover IDK if any squad was even patrolling that area, We ended up meeting around the target but was to low do much but watch them fly by.  They came in alot higher than was expected i say that worked well to there advantage if they hit anything 

Nice job sneaking between the lines 

[crockett]

This is very interesting. The axis were saying this was going to be a cake walk for them before, now they complain that they are illsuited to the task. From what I saw in my area flying a P-51 and observing 109 and 262 runs they didn't fly their crafts well at all. The command and control in our sector was concerned about early diction an were out of position as the kill aircraft (temps) blew their assignment. The 234 runs were not coordinated with themselves or their cover. This was either a poorly planned or probably just a poorly executed attack on their target. As to the AoM they die all the time and though they are good they will have off nights. My money is that this was just a night were they were outa position before the event even started. I promise you they will more than likely be in position next week to make a few more scores.


Vlkyrie

We weren't out of position at all. We did our objective which was to go be a fighter sweep at the city factory. There wasn't much we could do though in a fight that was 9 vs 20+ at high alts with flack bursts all through the fight. Thankfully Kappa was nice enough to drop alt and kill the flacks at least taking that out of the equation. We contuinued to try to complete our objective, but sometimes the impossiable can't be done.

We were never sent as a support group or cover for anyone. We were sent as a fighter sweep to do a job the plane simple wasn't meant to do. As for before hand I know I myself never said anything about it being a walk in the park for the Axis. I didn't even post in here before the event and I would have assumed the 262's would have been used in a support fashion and not how they were used.

Remember, just because we were flying the planes doesn't mean we the ones who decided how to use them in this frame or any other frame. We were handed a tool set and a job to complete, the tool set didn't mach the job that needed to be done.

[crockett]

As one of the defenders that saw little action I can say it wasn't because of a lack of communication. Infact, SK's, HFG's and Righteous Vengeance forced me to communicate a lot more that what I'm accustomed to in SEA. All the squads defending the city tuned to each others text channel to increase communication and I think it worked a little to well. I don't know how many planes the Axis originally sent our way but we only saw about 10 total, maybe there were more sent and just got shot down before they could make it in. But, I think because of the communication involved between the squads is why only 1 262 made it out and even he took some hits.
  I don't think anyone is to blame for us seeing little action, that's just the nature of FSO. Sometimes your overwhelmed, sometimes you fly for 2 hours without seeing anything.


Lambo

There was only 9 of us sent there 1 squad of fighters in 262. The only other thing sent there was the 234's, I'm not sure how they did because I never saw them but I know there were no other Axis fighters at the city factory but our 9 262's.

[SIM]

I just don't get it. How hard is it to enjoy an event? Regardless to how you answer, the fact remains that the event is only as good as YOU make it for yourself and your squad. Kleenex are available at the out door if needed for damaged/crushed/whine-able egos.

IMHO the FSO was simply a blast! Flew with the Nightmares and found myself in a swirling dogfight at low alts. It all started at around 25k and quickly descended. At the end there were two of us ponies against a large group of Axis pilots. Seems to me the Axis did very well indeed. I ended up with credit for two enemy pilots and one of those sat down with a dead engine.

Salute to the designer AND the CM Team for a good event. It wasn't my favorite, but was a good time nonetheless.

[forHIM]

oh man, is sim still around

Glad you were back with the Nightmares SIM.  Look forward to seeing you this week.  Hope the weather hasn't caused you too much over time yet.

[Sled]

Well Hey Sim.

Still walking the right-a-way?

[SIM]

forHim,
 Just a bit as yet my friend! So far this year its been pretty quiet, nothing major .................YET!
 Luckily the Nightmares kept my ...err........uhhh...chainsaw sharpened! Have been enjoying the FSOs lately and even the Manic Arenas. you need to check in on the latest to-dos of MGD and such. Things are starting to heat up again with some of the other sims.......

SLED,
 Man we gotta talk! Doing some Utility of the Future stuff at work now. Will blow ya mind what all is going on! can you say Remote Control EVERYTHING? Now if they could only come up with something that would keep me from having to climb backline.............

 Glad to see ya both!