Why the P38?

[Tac]

Rudder and engines are different. Rudder kicks your tail around (not as much as single-tailed planes though), the engines will make your plane roll and pull nose to dead engine very slightly (as if you were giving it a liiiiiittle bit of rudder). But when the dead engine is combined WITH rudder to same side, you can do an amazing snap turn, but dont expect to sustain it 'cause the stall that will come will be very nasty.

About 38 toughness: The ONLY thing I agree is weird in the toughness now is the wing roots. They simply dont take damage, damage is x-fered to the engines.

Aside from that, you can ping a 38 anywhere else and you WILL tear pieces out of it. Wingtips are very vulnerable (and get snapped very often), engines get hit all the time (well, it is 70% engines), tails DO snap out if they are hit from above or below, the stabilizer does break off with a few cannon rounds.. you just have to HIT it.

It seems very durable because in comparison with other planes, it does not shed its wings with a burst on the wings. But let me tell you, give a 38 a burst, and you will knock the engine out or make it smoke (3-4 mins left of life on the engine), you will get an elevator (and 38 without 1 elevator is SCREWED. it can barely pull nose up), or a flap (no flaps=no turn=gotta run for it, and 38 can NOT run from anything BUT a spitv and zeke). What would usually be an instant-fatal blow to any other plane is a torturous death for a 38. When I shoot other 38's I bang them with 2 short bursts in 1 area, watch them smoke and some piece fly off, and I let them be. a few mins later I get kill (some cannon dweeb shoots him up below but since I pinged 38 more I get kill, or 38 crashes).

[HFMudd]

"another question why do 190 and 109 always dive and run away from it"

Well, and this just a wild guess you understand, but... because they can.  I assume that any plane that can outdive a P-38 will do so either to break off or to get an E advantage.  Why is this confusing?  Isn't this just sound tactics?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by HFMudd
"another question why do 190 and 109 always dive and run away from it"

Well, and this just a wild guess you understand, but... because they can.  I assume that any plane that can outdive a P-38 will do so either to break off or to get an E advantage.  Why is this confusing?  Isn't this just sound tactics?

I think the point is that diving away to gain energy to re-engage is a very valid tactic, while always diving away to break off and run without ever fighting is just running.

The general idea of most dedicated combat flight sim enthusiasts is that once you are able to reasonably equalize altitude and speed (or "E"), you should turn and fight, so long as you have ammo, an undamaged or equally damaged plane, and relatively equal numbers.

Most of the better pilots, and some who wish they were better pilots, find it really annoying that there are certain individuals who will only engage if they hold the advantage in several, if not most or all categories, and by a large margin.

In other words, they don't like pilots who will run from a co-alt, co-E 1v1 everytime, especially since those same individuals are usually the pilots who WILL engage when he sees you 3K below him, 200 MPH slower, and already fighting at least one, and preferrably three or more of his countrymen, while he is alone. These guys are usually found in groups of three to seven, and flying either Spitfires or La7s.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
These guys are usually found in groups of three to seven, and flying either Spitfires or La7s.

You had me totally agreeing with you until this part.  The style of flying you mentioned is not exclusive to Spits or La7s.  In fact I find very few Spits that do it, mainly because it's very hard for them to run from a co-alt, co-E 1v1 in the first place.  And it's certainly not limited to La7s.  I've seen 190s, 51s, 205s, Typhoons, etc etc. all flee from a roughly even E fight.

The funniest example of this in recent memory was a P-51 with about 2k alt on me, of equal speed, who at 2k out (as we merged nose to nose), split-sed and ran to three friends.  That was pretty weak.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

It was nearly impossible in real life to knock the wing off of a P-38. I know of at least one pilot who hit a telegraph pole with a P-38 and flew home with several feet of wing missing and the remaining portion severely twisted. Another collided with a 109 wing to wing, and the 109 spun in immediately, while once again, the P-38 flew home with about 6 feet of wing missing. There are several reports of P-38s with 3 foot flak holes in their wings landing safely. The spar in a P-38 is large, and made of stainless steel and aluminum, not just plain aluminum.

When shooting from above and behind, it should be difficult to hit the oil lines or the oil cooler on a P-38, as the oil cooler was below and in front of the engine, behind the intercooler on the J and L models. The only oil lines above and behind the engine are for the turbocharger, and are relatively small. Those lines are actually below the turbo for the most part, and the turbo itself was contained in an armor ring. What should be vulnerable from above and behind is the radiators.

It is actually the third most durable Allied fighter, behind the F4U and the P-47, or fourth to some when compared to the F6F.

At least half of all P-38s lost were believed lost due to mechanical failures, navigational errors, and accidents. The pilots I've spoken with say most lost to enemy fire had either their pilot killed or disabled, or their control cables shot away.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


You had me totally agreeing with you until this part.  The style of flying you mentioned is not exclusive to Spits or La7s.  In fact I find very few Spits that do it, mainly because it's very hard for them to run from a co-alt, co-E 1v1 in the first place.  And it's certainly not limited to La7s.  I've seen 190s, 51s, 205s, Typhoons, etc etc. all flee from a roughly even E fight.

The funniest example of this in recent memory was a P-51 with about 2k alt on me, of equal speed, who at 2k out (as we merged nose to nose), split-sed and ran to three friends.  That was pretty weak.

-- Todd/Leviathn

I wasn't saying it was exclusive by any stretch. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to fly since December (early December in fact), and at the time I was flying, I saw this being done MOSTLY by Spitfires and La7s, but not exclusively. I was, and will be again, flying Rooks, although I doubt that matters, all sides have them, and always have, even in AW. When I see it done with P-51s, I usually only see two. Tiffies I see in pairs or maybe trios, and most take at least one blazing HO, and then run like hell to their buddies, sometimes in a gaggle of Spits.

Funny you should mention the Split S. When I was getting started, I used to do that on the merge, and then try to single or double Immel. It didn't work, but then I never flew fast runners either. When I gave up the Split S, I quit dying as much, or at least as fast.

I don't guess I ever saw you in AW, at least not often enough to remember. As lousy a pilot as I am, i'm rather forgettable myself.

[HFMudd]

Well I mostly fly the 190A-5 and run from the LA-7 unless I clearly have an E advantage.  The thing is, even though I am flying a "190" I don't feel that co-alt, co-E is an advatage vs. an LA-7 because the is simply nothing I can do that the LA-7 can't beat assuming he sucks to the same degree I do.

Given a large enough E advantage I will BnZ until my E advantage is reduced to the point that I can't get away with another attack.  Then I will use what E I have to run.

As I see it, if the LA-7 driver wants me not to run then he needs to fly any other plane is set and I will hang around in a 1vs1 and do my best to give him a good fight.  1.8ish times out of 3 this will not go my way.


On another subject, "Luftwobbles HO'ing", this really does not make a lot of sense if you think about.  The last thing I am going to do in any German "200 is 2-far" cannon armed plane is challenge a 6x50 or Hispano armed planed in HO.   I seems like most times that I close with a P-51 I see the 50's twinkle far beyond what I could possibly hit them at.  In short, I don't try HO with allied planes, it is simply too fast a way to die.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I don't guess I ever saw you in AW, at least not often enough to remember. As lousy a pilot as I am, i'm rather forgettable myself.

I'm not sure I recall you from AW.  What was your CPID there?  I went, at various times, by DeadF, +Dead, and Cilk.  I mainly flew Full Realism.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


I'm not sure I recall you from AW.  What was your CPID there?  I went, at various times, by DeadF, +Dead, and Cilk.  I mainly flew Full Realism.

-- Todd/Leviathn

I flew only FR, with the exception of a couple of tribute flights. Squad nights were Wednesday and Saturday nights, and I flew KOTH and some scenarios. The CPID was Savge, I flew with the 327th FS until around February 2001.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The CPID was Savge, I flew with the 327th FS until around February 2001.

The CPID Savge rings a bell, though if you were participating in KOTH events, you were there past my time.  I left AW more than two years ago and moved to AH.  But I do believe we've crossed swords before.  

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


The CPID Savge rings a bell, though if you were participating in KOTH events, you were there past my time.  I left AW more than two years ago and moved to AH.  But I do believe we've crossed swords before.  

-- Todd/Leviathn

Ahh, you could be thinking of "Savag", who also flew the P-38, he was a Cz, not sure which squad.

 KOTH was sponsored by the 327th squad, I think I hit AW a little while before they started. I hope to be back up in AH soon, but it looks like it will be June, unless by some miracle this rig starts supporting my USB stick. It locks the stick now, even in Windows, although sometimes I can get into AH for a while before it locks. So, I'm not flying for a while.

[Ossie]

I remember both +dead and Cilk, never thought they were one in the same Spent some time in fightertown I believe? 215 was my cpid. I'd usually be flying the P38, P40 or 109f, although I did spend a day in a Ju88 trying to get kills with bomb blast

[Vruth]

Remember guys, the four 50 cals on the P-38 in AH cycle fire, not instant.  That mean, each 50 cal fires in turn.

The real-life P-38 has a simultaneous firing mechanism for the 4 fifty-cals on the nose.

We are only getting about 1/4th it's true firing power. The 20mm is always nice but it's something to see all 5 guns firing.  I remember seeing an old 40's era training film on the P-38 and it has amazing firepower. It was a one squeeze kill for the P-38. That's why it earned the nickname of 'Fork-Tailed Devil'.

I wonder if HTC will ever fix the 50's on the P-38?

V.

[FLS]

I remember Cilk flying with Kitty. I never realized it was +Dead in shades and a skirt. I actually thought Cilk was an easier kill.

Remember guys, the four 50 cals on the P-38 in AH cycle fire, not instant. That mean, each 50 cal fires in turn.

The real-life P-38 has a simultaneous firing mechanism for the 4 fifty-cals on the nose.

We are only getting about 1/4th it's true firing power.


You have 4 guns firing at about 750-800 RPM each. That's at least 12 rounds per second per gun. What does it matter if the guns fire simultaneously or not?  I doubt any P-38 pilot ever tried to fire just 4 rounds at an enemy. In testing I find it's possible to fire just one shot in AH but I'm more likely to fire 2 than 1 and sometimes I fire 3, all with the same brief tap on the fire key. For any reasonable short burst of 1/4 second or more you still get the same rate and weight of fire on the target. Since the P-38 had a time of fire of 40 seconds and I can empty the AH P-38 guns in 37 seconds you could argue that it's firepower is slightly high.

--)-FLS----
Musketeers