Author Topic: How many people did Fidel Castro murder?  (Read 3604 times)

Offline AKcurly

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #105 on: November 28, 2003, 02:39:08 PM »
It is idiotic to make positive statements about Cuban living conditions/ freedom of political expression/quality of medical care.

Anyone who makes such statements is in an extreme state of denial.

Poor Cuba ... they went from the frying pan (Baptista) to the fire (communism.)

Both Baptista & communism destroyed thousands of private individuals.  Both were/are monsters.

However, there can be only one liberator of Cuba, and that's Cuba itself.

As a general rule of thumb, sovereign nations are free to torture, murder and exploit its citizens so long as they don't attack their neighbors (distant or nearby.)  Other countries ignore them ...

Grun, like minid told you, it's impossible to find reliable statistics.  However, the network is awash in anecdotal information about the repression and suffering in Cuba.  

Here is a good place to start.  Maybe somone here can help you.

http://www.cubainfolinks.net/

curly

Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #106 on: November 28, 2003, 05:46:31 PM »
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Originally posted by Boroda
I have to agree that indeed it is much more complicated, especially for people like Grunherz, who never lived in "communist" countries.


Well Yugoslavia, as you said yourself was close to an ideal communuist country and a model for the others. Yet it still was communism.  Thankfully we were able to seperate ourselves from stalin and you russians otherwise we would have just as bad as you.

Offline Animal

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #107 on: November 28, 2003, 07:13:39 PM »
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Originally posted by Glasses
Animal remember Col Barquin , yes the President from AMA(American Military Academy) , well Col Barqiun led a Quo against Batista before Castro's victory but it failed miserably many things went wrong in the process. Ultimately led to him being jailed and many other awful things, even purges by Batista. Then being made a point by Castro when he entered Havana.

There is something that many exiled Cubans have said about castro including Historians that Castro only took Socialism out of convinience since the Kennedy administration didn't recognize Castro's government as legit,and for good reason, so he took upon himself to find allies with the USSR ,and declared himself and his government communist.


Pretty interesting, I never knew that. I should sit down and ask him a few questions.

Offline Raubvogel

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #108 on: November 28, 2003, 08:34:39 PM »
I'd like to visit Cuba someday just to check out all the 1950's American cars that they have maintained for the last 50 or so years.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #109 on: November 28, 2003, 09:24:52 PM »
I think the embargo is wrong and unproductive and yes I would like to visit cuba too as one of the last relics of the cold war.

Offline Urchin

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #110 on: November 29, 2003, 09:07:05 AM »
Animal, I think what Grunherz is incapable of understanding is how "poor" people live in the "wealthy democratic capitalist" countries.  That is understandable, since I'd say pretty much 100% of the people that post on the board are solidly "middle-class", if not upper-class.

Grunherz, having ANY health care is an improvement over no health care.  Having ANY education is an improvement over no education.  Having ANY job is an improvement over not having a job.  

Go visit Appalachia and come back and tell us how wonderful that "free, capitalist, democratic" society is.  

I also found your comments about the police fascinating.  You described L.A. pretty well.

Offline Elfie

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #111 on: November 29, 2003, 12:27:04 PM »
I actually spoke with a Cuban Exile yesterday. He said the people aren't happy in cuba, that is just a front that everyone puts on. He was forced to leave Cuba 3 years ago, forced to leave his wife, friends and relatives.....all because he voiced political views that go against the Castro regime.

He did say that one day he wants to go back to Cuba.....when Castro is gone.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #112 on: November 29, 2003, 07:42:59 PM »
I know full well what its like to be poor both in Yogoslavia and to some extent our first few years here in the USA. I grew up in a house made of stone and we cooked meals on a wood burning stove, there was no phone ion the house, the roof was old and practically caving in from  ww2 shell damage (***** italians) and wore handme downs clothes, it was difficult buying shoes for school. So why do you arrogantly assume I'm rich all my life?  Is it because I'm a business student? Maybe I had the opportunity to see the difference between capitalism and communism and I actually value it. You just seem to take this prosparity for granted as some sort of entitlement and them perhaps out of base greed just whine for socialism because you dont think the system gave you what you desrve. I apologize Urchin if I'm wrong and I'm sorry if what I just said offends you but frankly thats hoe you come across at times.  Poor can happend everywhere no matter what the economic system - the difference is how much opporttunity you have to improve your situation, and tens of millions of immigrants risking life and limb over the last century probably were not wrong in coming to America just for that opportunity to have a chance to better their lives. And if you thinkk some form of magic government imposed socialism will eradicate poverty then you are plain wrong, it never has and it never will.  With you and those like you still clamoring for socialist fantasies I mus ask, have millions and millions given up their lives to this communist nightmare in vain? Have we as people learned nothing from a centuy of unprecedented opression and murder at the hands of socialist dream panderers and saviors?  WAKE UP FROM YOOR DREAM URCHIN, BEFORE IT BECOMES A NIGHTMARE!


I actually spoke with a Cuban Exile yesterday. He said the people aren't happy in cuba, that is just a front that everyone puts on. He was forced to leave Cuba 3 years ago, forced to leave his wife, friends and relatives.....all because he voiced political views that go against the Castro regime.

And this is something the Castro's Cuba buttlicking apologists from wealthy free western nations will never understand about communist dictatorships.  There is simply an incredible amount of pressure to echo the government view of things, people get severly punished for speaking out because the government has near total control of employment, education, health even food distribution and they are not afraid to cut you off from these gifts if you cross them...  

BTW If any of you are offended by my calling you a Castro's cuba buttlicking apologist then please reconsider your praising of this facade of health care and happyness or parroting back propaganda of 100% literacy, in doing so you are no different than the naive misgiuded dreamers who came back singing praises of stalins russia during the 1930s while tens of millions were starving and dying in gulags or collective farms....
« Last Edit: November 29, 2003, 08:00:16 PM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline Leslie

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #113 on: November 29, 2003, 10:52:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
While we are on the subject, I have a question. How many people where killed in the Dominican Republic by Trujillo and his US backed government before he was assasinated?

As for Cuba, there have been quite a few, but like MiniD said, its hard to know. Even if you found good data, you'd probably be disapointed. There have been quite a few executions, but most people in Cuba are suprisingly loyal to Fidel, as retarded as that may seem. And the ones who are not, do their best to leave the place in their not so luxurious yatchs.
By the way, Cuba is not as ****ed up as you'd believe. If you dont believe me, take a visit. But that is hard now, as the US government is making it incredibly hard now for students to go to Cuba.

Cuba is a simple place full of simple people. No one is starving, but no one has what we would consider material luxuries. Not even Fidel himself, except that he gets food prepared any time he wants.

The the old school looks of the place reflect its senile leader. For a good insight on present Cuba, watch Oliver's Stone recent documentary "El Comandante". Its interesting, and Fidel is surprisingly open to Oliver.
He does say a blatant lie in one part, when he claims no one has been tortured by his party.




Castro should be made to pay for what he did to the arts in Cuba in 1968.  A "Declaration of Rules of the Congress of Writers and Artists" (Declaracion of Principios del Congreso de Escritores y Artistas) was proposed which said each writer had the obligation and responsibility to contribute to the revolucionary process by means of their work.  To be used as a weapon to help the Revolution.  Soon after, Haydee Santamaria, director of the editorial press Casa de las Americas, suggested that those writers who did not follow the revolucionary line should not receive prizes.  One year later, Nicolas Guillen, president of UNEAC (Union Nacional de Escritores y Artistas de Cuba), declared that writers and artists had the same responsibilities as the army - defend the nation- and all who did not do it should be severely punished.*

Palls, Terry L.    "El caracter del teatro cubano contemporaneo",
Latin American Theatre Review , 1980:  13, ii, supp. pag. 54




Evidently this did not go over very well with serious writers and artists, so it is my deduction they simply quit doing art (theater), rather than be told what to do, or punished for not glorifying the Revolution.  These include authors of the theater of the absurd, principally Anton Arrufat,  Nicholas Dorr and Jose Triana.

In 1980, the main artistic expression in Cuba consisted of a group  (Grupo Teatral Escambray), established in 1968 under the direction of Sergio Corrieri.  The productions were public (in the street) and the public was invited to participate and give advice, what to add on or what to change.  These was a travelling company about the countryside.  Other groups in this line are La Yara, Grupo Teatrova, Grupo Estudio, Grupo Yarabey (Camaguey).*

Woodyard, George W.  "Perspectives on Cuban Theatre", Revista/Review Americana ,  9(1979):  pp. 48-49


I have never been to Cuba.  My Dad made a port of call to Havana in the early 30s, on his way to or from Argentina.  He could speak Spanish fairly well, having attended high school in New Mexico.  He also got along pretty well with the Cubans and South Americans.  Years later, after Castro was in power, he told me Castro is admired by Spanish speaking peoples mainly because of his defiance toward Gringos.   There is a loyalty for Castro that we as gringos don't understand.

Animal, tu vives in Puerto Rico.  Que is el sentimiento en cuanto a gringos alli?:)





Les

Offline Animal

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #114 on: November 30, 2003, 01:32:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
(info)

Animal, tu vives in Puerto Rico.  Que is el sentimiento en cuanto a gringos alli?:)

Les


Nice info, thanks. I did not know the extent in which comunist ideals damaged culture in Cuba. I will look more into it. It does make sense, in the time I spent there, there was not much to see or read when it came to imagery or literary works of art that did not deal with the revolution itself.
In Cuba, la revolución is the center of the universe.

Aqui en Puerto Rico no hay un sentimiento prevalente en cuanto a los gringos. Alguna gente los adora como si fueran superiores, algunos los odian como si fueran opresores, otros, como yo, simplemente los vemos como personas.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #115 on: November 30, 2003, 03:02:48 AM »
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Originally posted by Animal
Nice info, thanks. I did not know the extent in which comunist ideals damaged culture in Cuba. I will look more into it. It does make sense, in the time I spent there, there was not much to see or read when it came to imagery or literary works of art that did not deal with the revolution itself.
In Cuba, la revolución is the center of the universe.

 


absolutely animal, this is another thing people are forced to give up under communism. Any cultural activity that contradicts the communist ideals is supressed and banned. In fact if yiu study these communist countries a bit you will notice that they have similar art and approved literature.  Its downright spooky!

WTG for noting it! I think you are well on your way to seeing how inhuman and fake the whole place is because of the communism.

Offline Gixer

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #116 on: November 30, 2003, 03:46:47 AM »
Find the whole US v Cuba/Castro thing very amusing. Especially when Bush bought it up again recently. Maybe they have WMD too?



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Offline Holden McGroin

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #117 on: November 30, 2003, 03:50:39 AM »
GWB brought it up because many Floridians believe it to be important.

Perhaps you may have heard the the Florida election was pretty close last time?
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Offline Leslie

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #118 on: November 30, 2003, 05:34:25 AM »
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Originally posted by Gixer
Find the whole US v Cuba/Castro thing very amusing. Especially when Bush bought it up again recently. Maybe they have WMD too?



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I wouldn't find it amusing no matter who brought it up.:D





Les

Offline mora

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #119 on: November 30, 2003, 07:33:15 AM »
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
I'd like to visit Cuba someday just to check out all the 1950's American cars that they have maintained for the last 50 or so years.


Me too! It's too bad they have re-engined many of them with Russian diesels.:eek: I think '54 Chevy is the second most common car there, after Lada.