New Russian movie announced: Convoy PQ-17

[Hortlund]

In retrospect, I prolly should have done that the other way around eh.

[Dowding]

Nah, I didn't really think you'd believe the stuff on that site. You've got to admit the stuff on there is funny though. I was looking for information on the Royal Warwickshire Regiment and the atrocity committed against them by the SS. At first I thought it was a joke, but the more I read the more I realised the author is serious.

Check out his claim the British troops used dum-dums in the retreat to Dunkirk and how they killed nuns who they believed were German parachutists. He doesn't name a single source.

[Naso]

Originally posted by ra
It was done in Ethiopia too, sometimes with poison gas.  I don't remember by whom.

And in Lybia, too.

Have you ever heard of Douhet ?

If you are thinking someone here is claiming higher moral standards, look to another direction.

I hope you got it.

Not everyone is a nationalistic fanatic, you know?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Bodhi
Boroda,

How do you explain Stalin's directives to wholesale murder the Polish People.  That and to REMOVE the Polish state from the face of the earth?  THat sure sounds like "encouraging and condoning" the organised murder of the Poles caught under the Soviet advance to Germany...

Those words were spoken by Stalin at the conference in.... I want to say Yalta, but may need to look it up tonight when I get home.

Not trying to be a Soviet Basher Boroda, just that I find that government to be of a criminal caliber on the scale of the Nazi's.

Didn't you stop drinking brandy every morning? (c)

Polish state was included ito Soviet sphere of interests, and AFAIK there was no "directives to wholesale murder the Polish People".

Or maybe you mean that Armia Ludowa contained only of bloody communists hired in Buryatia and taught to speak Polish?

What I really want to find out is where all this pseudohistorical hallucinations come from, but it's probably impossible without an experience of living in Western society since childhood.

[Angus]

Boroda, you stupid clot!
The rest of the missing polish officers many of which were excavated at Katyn...hemm.....were dug up near Smolensk.
That's something you should know by now from previous threads, and indeed ranks very well as WHOLESALE MASSACRE

Maybe it was all a hallucination?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Angus
Boroda, you stupid clot!
The rest of the missing polish officers many of which were excavated at Katyn...hemm.....were dug up near Smolensk.
That's something you should know by now from previous threads, and indeed ranks very well as WHOLESALE MASSACRE

Maybe it was all a hallucination?

Thank you.

You are probably unfamiliar with my years-long argument with Toad. I have to say again that I don't know who executed Polish officers in Katyn. It was Goebbels's discovery. The last solid document about this problem is a Burdenko's commission report made in 1944. The commission included some European journalists and experts who worked in nazi incestigation made in 1943. They stated that they were forced to sign German report while it was obvious that Poles were killed by nazis in 1941.

JFYI: Polish officers in Katyn' were killed from German weapons. Katyn was a Smolensk recreation ground in 1940. Many Polish officers declared "killed in Katyn'" wrote letters home in 1941 and 1942.

Think for yourself. I say - I don't know who have committed that crime. I don't want to believe that it was my country.

Just to prevent you from bringing well-known pro-nazi arguments here: all the "orders" and "directives" that are shown as "proof of Soviet crimes in Katyn'" are a fake, obvious to any person who can speak Russian. Frankly speaking - I don't want to waste my time explaining it again.

BTW, who do you think were the officers in Wojsko Polsko (sp?) who fought Germans together with the Soviet Army?

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Boroda


Think for yourself. I say - I don't know who have committed that crime. I don't want to believe that it was my country.

Just to prevent you from bringing well-known pro-nazi arguments here: all the "orders" and "directives" that are shown as "proof of Soviet crimes in Katyn'" are a fake, obvious to any person who can speak Russian. Frankly speaking - I don't want to waste my time explaining it again.

This sums it up nicely, you dont want to belive.....  Tell me boroda who ran the Gulags? Was it the Japanese? The mongolians? Spacemen from Mars?

[Nakhui]

Blagadaru Vas!

Ya vstretchayu vam pod stolom!

Zhdaroviya!

Ya nichego ne znayu!

[Boroda]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
This sums it up nicely, you dont want to belive.....  Tell me boroda who ran the Gulags? Was it the Japanese? The mongolians? Spacemen from Mars?

GH, you lack the creative approach in almost any discussion. Refusing to bring arguments and continuing to speak about things that you can't even spell correctly.

GULAG = Gosudarstvennoe Upravlenie LAGerey, State Administration of [penitenciaty] Camps.

Again, JFYI: biggest GULAG population, in 1940, was 2 (two) times smaller then all Russian prisoners in 1999. One million for the whole USSR vs. two million for Russian Federation only (about one half ofthe USSR population).

Homework for Hrungerz: compare the number of prisoners per capita in USSR, USA, Germany and other industrial countries in 1940.

Grun, I still have my Grandfather's discharge documents under the glass together with his Order of Red Banner awad documets. My Grand-grandfather disappeared in GULAG in 1939 for "railway sabotage" on his line. I am the last person to say that Stalin was an angel, and I don't want that times to return. I have told you this many times before, but you are either deaf and blind or just unable to remember and understand information. Maybe you have problems at work or in family life? If so - I'll understand that laughing at such people is impolite and finally decide to add you to my ignore list.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Nakhui
Blagadaru Vas!

Ya vstretchayu vam pod stolom!

Zhdaroviya!

Ya nichego ne znayu!

Next phrases should be:

Soobsh_i_te nOmer vAshey chAsti!

Gde lAger' partizAn?

Gde nahOdyatsya rakEtniye ustanOvki?

[miko2d]

Boroda: FYI: Polish officers in Katyn' were killed from German weapons. Katyn was a Smolensk recreation ground in 1940. Many Polish officers declared "killed in Katyn'" wrote letters home in 1941 and 1942.

 My father-in-law's father - the grand-grandfather of my children was tortured to death by soviet authorities.
 Their family escaped from the german into the soviet occupation zone days/hours before germans took posession of their town.
 He was a healthy man, father of 5 children.

 There was recriting going on among the poles who have escaped from germans. Those who wished could sign up for work in soviet enterprises, others could sign up for emigration to England (or US). Those who did sign for emigration were arrested and most were not seen or heard from again. That is the first-hand testimony from my father-in-law who is alive only because he had an uncanny feel for danger and did not sign for emigration. It was him who few hours before occupation by germans got his family out of german occupation zone. Then he travelled to Soviet Union, came back and took the whole family there which saved most of them from german invasion. He was 14 at the time.

 At 17 he enlisted into the Red Army but after Katyn was discovered and Anders escaped from the Soviet Union with the polish patriots of Armia Kraiowa, they - polish batallions - were sent to work in Siberia rather then anywhere they could escape from.
 

BTW, who do you think were the officers in Wojsko Polsko (sp?) who fought Germans together with the Soviet Army?

 Those who did not have oppotrunity to escape with Anders and his Armia Krajowa or the communist puppers of the Stalin's regime.

 miko

[Siaf__csf]

Homework for Boroda: Calculate the death rate per prisoner in a russian gulag and then compare it to a western jail. Calculate the amount of corruption, destroyed records and crimes against humanity.

Your society made the mistake of not murdering everyone they sent on the camps, there are actually first hand eyewitnesses still alive.

The western civilization didn't need a wall and machineguns to keep them on their side. It was the other way around.

Now why is that Boroda?

You've grown up in a society famous for it's blatant censoship, lies and corruption. You cite Pravda, the very same magazine that posts 'news' about UFO's on it's headlines.

Doesn't even THAT make you think?

It must be difficult for one to realise that the government you trust has been lying to you, in the open, for decades. Those lies were covered up by careful censorship of the western media and heavy limitations in traveling rights. Most travellers were followed by a spy at all times to monitor their activity.

In east (soviet)germany the stasi (like the local KGB) built up an elaborate network of spies where every neighbour was practically watching eachothers. The brainwash resulted in children exposing their parents to the system.

It's a sick, sick system you grew up in. Too bad you still can't see the light and believe in the lies.

[Toad]

Boroda lives down the rabbit hole, with Alice in Wonderland.

In April 1990, Premier Mikhail Gorbachev publicly admitted the NKVD's responsibility for the Katyn executions.





In 1992, Russian President Boris Yeltsin handed over to the Polish government Stalin's "Supreme Punishment" decree of March, 1940, ordering the execution of over 14,000 Polish officers and 10,000-plus other Poles. It explains why mass graves of Poles were uncovered decades later in other parts of the Soviet Union.



In January 2000, Russia's president-elect Vladimir Putin telephoned Polish President Aleksander Kwaœniewski to inform him of the discovery of a mass grave thought to contain the bodies of Poles murdered by Soviet forces during the Second World War.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Homework for Boroda: Calculate the death rate per prisoner in a russian gulag and then compare it to a western jail. Calculate the amount of corruption, destroyed records and crimes against humanity.

Your society made the mistake of not murdering everyone they sent on the camps, there are actually first hand eyewitnesses still alive.

The western civilization didn't need a wall and machineguns to keep them on their side. It was the other way around.

Now why is that Boroda?

You've grown up in a society famous for it's blatant censoship, lies and corruption. You cite Pravda, the very same magazine that posts 'news' about UFO's on it's headlines.

Doesn't even THAT make you think?

It must be difficult for one to realise that the government you trust has been lying to you, in the open, for decades. Those lies were covered up by careful censorship of the western media and heavy limitations in traveling rights. Most travellers were followed by a spy at all times to monitor their activity.

In east (soviet)germany the stasi (like the local KGB) built up an elaborate network of spies where every neighbour was practically watching eachothers. The brainwash resulted in children exposing their parents to the system.

It's a sick, sick system you grew up in. Too bad you still can't see the light and believe in the lies.

Siaf I am always having to correct you!!!

The Berlin wall was put around based on the wishes of the free german people of the east who wanted to protect themselves aginst the beggars from the west. Nobody wants panhandlers, you know. Unfortuantely heavy winds (predominatly blowing east to west) sometimes blew east germs into the electrified fences and minefields - so unfortunately somre were injured.  But the beggars from west were kept out.

Just how poor was the west? Good that you ask. It was so poor that in 1948 the USA and UK  had to prop up their west berlin puppet state with daily flights of food just so they did not all starve.  All soviet food shipments to the city were cut off because the madman truman did not allow rail or road traffic for soviet aid into the city.

Now the gulags. They are like  boyscout camps in the forest where people are educated in useful trades. Nobody was killed in them...

Stalin is great!!!! He is the besty!!!!  I am being a good little boroda, no?

BTW boroda in common english usage the word gulag is used both singluarly and pluraly gulags to describe the system or individual camps...

[Angus]

Boroda, you stupid clot. I never thought you had a goldfish memory as well
From yourself:

"You are probably unfamiliar with my years-long argument with Toad. I have to say again that I don't know who executed Polish officers in Katyn. It was Goebbels's discovery. The last solid document about this problem is a Burdenko's commission report made in 1944. The commission included some European journalists and experts who worked in nazi incestigation made in 1943. They stated that they were forced to sign German report while it was obvious that Poles were killed by nazis in 1941. "

Are you unfamiliar with Putin apologizing to the polish nation because of Katyn? Are you unfamiliar with the fact that most of the missing poles were discovered near Smolensk recently, and while those were buried there, it was under Soviet command?
You and Toad, WTF, please stay on course mate. You should know this by now, since this has been shown to you in threads before in this very forum.
Of course you don't WANT TO belive it was your country. Who would want to belive it? But none the less, you cannot discard absolute fact. Your nation is big...errr..HUGE. **** happens. It was years ago, it's all past and it bloody well wasn't YOUR fault.
Hell, my ancestors went around Britain raping and pillaging anyway....

And then the icing on the cake. Your desperate dirt-bomb calling anybody a Nazy that does oppose you. GRR. GRRRR :

"Just to prevent you from bringing well-known pro-nazi arguments here: all the "orders" and "directives" that are shown as "proof of Soviet crimes in Katyn'" are a fake, obvious to any person who can speak Russian. Frankly speaking - I don't want to waste my time explaining it again. "

Now this is bad logic. And basically, I think that russian knowledge is irrelevant to history knowledge for most people, I don't know what they tought you though. I'm not picking up the glove for the bloody Nazis, however right is right.
Your time would be better spent debating professionally against apparently pro-nazi folks as sometimes really happens on these forums.I have not seen you there in the fieldd Boroda, why not, I wonder. Ok,here's your chance. Please check out the thread "When Enemy Was a Friend " in the aircraft and vehicles forum. Read my lines,do you think I am a Nazi?
Show your worth and take a different stand for once, you silly clot!!! There are better debates for you than this hopeless one, and honestly I'd like to see your point on many other threads.
Regards
Angus