Author Topic: The Best Fighter Aircraft of all Time  (Read 17628 times)

Offline simshell

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« Reply #105 on: February 27, 2004, 10:28:41 PM »
the plane is only as good as the pliot
known as Arctic in the main

Offline Overlag

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« Reply #106 on: February 27, 2004, 10:44:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by simshell
the plane is only as good as the pliot


amen
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline Pongo

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« Reply #107 on: February 27, 2004, 11:29:41 PM »
"Also your country of origin as well as Europe in general has been willing to overlook any abuse of any kind in the middle east for a long time as long as you petrol prices don't go up.

That is the same type of rhetoric that got a lot of people killed 60 years ago. Remember Nevil Chamberlin?? That Hitler is a nice chap ehh?"

Another new world record for double think has been set.

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #108 on: February 27, 2004, 11:34:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
im sorry?  :confused: has the F15 been at war with Egypt, Libya, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia???? No  :rolleyes: Iraq has (had) an airforce? HAHA not ONE botherd to take off in Iraq War 2 why? because they had none.

how many WARS has the F15 been in where the other side has had a airforce?

NONE. thanks. :rolleyes:

Anyway, i was AGREEING with your point, now your bashing me? :confused: so your basicaly bashing yourself? :lol


My point is thats the fighter that gets the best fighter in history award. The one that the aggressive enemies of a country wont even challenge.

Offline Overlag

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« Reply #109 on: February 28, 2004, 06:29:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
My point is thats the fighter that gets the best fighter in history award. The one that the aggressive enemies of a country wont even challenge.


why are they aggressive? imo its only America and Israels that are aggressive........
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Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #110 on: February 28, 2004, 06:34:12 AM »
If the Brits did not screw-up so badly in the early 20th century in the Mid-east the problem would not be so bad now.:)

Offline Overlag

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« Reply #111 on: February 28, 2004, 07:04:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MiloMorai
If the Brits did not screw-up so badly in the early 20th century in the Mid-east the problem would not be so bad now.:)


empires collapse man.... i mean look, america was once spanish, french and english........(or are your history books different? lol)

what did the UK have to do with the ottoman empire collapsing? (i dont know hence im asking)
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #112 on: February 28, 2004, 07:13:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
empires collapse man.... i mean look, america was once spanish, french and english........(or are your history books different? lol)

what did the UK have to do with the ottoman empire collapsing? (i dont know hence im asking)


I don't think lord Balfour was ottoman

Offline Overlag

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« Reply #113 on: February 28, 2004, 07:46:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I don't think lord Balfour was ottoman


the ottoman empire broke up along while before his name is even mentioned in its history......the way i read the "bad thing we did" was moving in troops during WWI to stop the arabs joining in on germany's side.

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The outbreak of World War I found Turkey lined up with the Central Powers. Although Turkish troops succeeded against the Allies in the Gallipoli campaign (1915), Arabia rose against Turkish rule, and British forces occupied (1917) Baghdad and Jerusalem. In 1918, Turkish resistance collapsed in Asia and Europe. An armistice was concluded in October, and the Ottoman Empire came to an end


http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/history/A0860176.html

so, what did we do wrong? :confused:
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Offline Batz

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« Reply #114 on: February 28, 2004, 08:26:51 AM »
The Ottoman Empire was very oppressive toward the Arab peoples of the Middle East. Following the Young Turk coup of 1908, the Ottomans abandoned their pluralistic and pan-Islamic policies, instead pursuing a policy of secular Turkish nationalism. The formerly tolerant Ottoman Empire began overtly discriminating against its non-Turkish inhabitants. Arabs in particular were faced with political, cultural and linguistic persecution.

When the Ottomans entered World War I on the side of the Central Powers in 1914, they upheld the ban on the official use of the Arabic language and it’s teaching in schools, while arresting many Arab nationalist figures in Damascus and Beirut. Arabs were further threatened by the construction of the Hijaz Railway, connecting Damascus and Mecca, which promised to facilitate the mobility of Turkish troops into the Arab heartland.

Arab Nationalists formed an alliance with Britain and France based on promises of an Arab homeland. The first of these promises came during 1915 in an exchange of ten letters between Sir Henry McMahon, Britain’s high commissioner in Egypt, and Sharif Hussein bin Ali, King of the Arabs and King of the Hijaz. Essentially, Britain pledged, in what became known as the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence, to support Arab independence if Hussein’s forces revolted against the Turks.

In June 1916, as head of the Arab nationalists and in alliance with Britain and France, Sharif Hussein initiated the Great Arab Revolt against Ottoman rule. His sons, the emirs Abdullah and Faisal, led the Arab forces, with Emir Faisal’s forces liberating Damascus from Ottoman rule in 1918. At the end of the war, Arab forces controlled all of modern Jordan, most of the Arabian Peninsula and much of southern Syria.

Sharif Hussein’s intention was to establish a single independent and unified Arab state stretching from Aleppo (Syria) to Aden (Yemen), based on the ancient traditions and culture of the Arab people, the upholding of Islamic ideals and the full protection and inclusion of ethnic and religious minorities.

When Balfour Declaration was leaked to the public it was an indication to Arabs that Britain and France were making false promises.

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Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour


After the War the Arab lands were divvied up and Wilson’s 14 points were pushed aside by Britain and France.

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XII. The Turkish portion of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.


In summary Britain and France betrayed the Arabs. If you need a history of what happened next let me know I will fill it in for you. A clear examination of history shows that Britain did a lot "wrong" in hindsight.

Offline F4UDOA

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« Reply #115 on: February 28, 2004, 10:40:42 AM »
Overlag,

You chance seems to change with every post.

Explain how the Americans and Israeli's are aggresive?

BTW, for the record the Arabs fought with Hitler and the Vichey French. Any land loss suffered as a result of that decision can rest squarely on the shoulders of the leaders of those Arab countries.

As far as Jeruselam  and Israel it was built by Jews before the creation of the Islamic religion. How does this belong to Arabs again? How did they get there in the first place?

That's why they call it Jew-ruselam. Where do you think the word comes from?

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #116 on: February 28, 2004, 01:29:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by F4UDOA
That's why they call it Jew-ruselam. Where do you think the word comes from?


LOLOL...

Jerusalem comes from the old Hebrew "Jerushalayim", which in Hebrew translates into "vision of peace".

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline F4UDOA

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« Reply #117 on: February 28, 2004, 03:26:07 PM »
FYI,

The British have nothing to do with where the state of Israel is today or who is a Jew or the Jews.

"In the 6th century B.C.E., the kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria and the ten tribes were exiled from the land (II Kings 17), leaving only the tribes in the kingdom of Judah remaining to carry on Abraham's heritage. These people of the kingdom of Judah were generally known to themselves and to other nations as Yehudim (Jews), and that name continues to be used today.

In common speech, the word "Jew" is used to refer to all of the physical and spiritual descendants of Jacob/Israel, as well as to the patriarchs Abraham and Isaac and their wives, and the word "Judaism" is used to refer to their beliefs."

Offline Overlag

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« Reply #118 on: February 28, 2004, 06:03:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
LOLOL...

Jerusalem comes from the old Hebrew "Jerushalayim", which in Hebrew translates into "vision of peace".

My regards,

Widewing


not anymore though :(


F4UDOA, do you not see the constant air attacks on schools, hospitals and other Palestinian camps? First, they push them out of there homes (it had been for 100s of years), then they lock them up with fences, then they bomb them. And Israel & america wonders why they are pissed off? :confused:

anyway, i think its about time we get back to topic of bashing the 109 or spit....err
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #119 on: February 28, 2004, 08:03:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by F4UDOA
Overlag,

You chance seems to change with every post.

Explain how the Americans and Israeli's are aggresive?

BTW, for the record the Arabs fought with Hitler and the Vichey French. Any land loss suffered as a result of that decision can rest squarely on the shoulders of the leaders of those Arab countries.

As far as Jeruselam  and Israel it was built by Jews before the creation of the Islamic religion. How does this belong to Arabs again? How did they get there in the first place?

That's why they call it Jew-ruselam. Where do you think the word comes from?




Why do you some idea that "arabs" only magically appeared in the world after the formation of islam... Jews (the actual israeli jews who come from mid east - not so much europeran jews) and arabs are the same people genetically, semites.  

Lets be more realistic..