what would the world be like if

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Airhead
Uh... but we HAVE a very right wing Government.... Almost Fascist... and Henry Ford and his ilk DO control polotical power.

The problem we on the Left have in educating the Masses is that we can't convince you just how miserable you really have it. We try, but as long as you're busy making your mortgage payments on your 2400 square foot ranch style with built in pool and your car payments for your Beemer and paying the tuition for the kid's private prep school you're too busy making money to work for social change... indeed, you're too busy enjoying the fruits of your labor... to be concerned with those who are less fortunate than yourselves and have no labor with which to enjoy the fruits from.

You really should be ashamed.

There you lefty's go again...I don't buy Kraut cars....I got a Lincoln Navigator...Drives the tree huggers nuts.

[GRUNHERZ]

What sort of control did henry ford have over his plant during ww2?

Or are you saying every person who built or bought a factory in germany before the outbreak of ww2 was a nazi?

BTW what "war" effort are yoiu talking about? The spanish civil war? Cuz Ford got that award in 1938...  Its nice how you try to link it to ww2.... Like ford got it and was in control during the war and then that factory was blown up and so was paid the money...

Anyway tread the links I posted, that ford sure is a war mongering right wing zealot...


Some of you lefty automatic corporate haters are just a treasure...

[Replicant]

Originally posted by john9001
What would the world be like today if the United States had stayed out of WW2?

What would the USA be like today, a super power that is hated by the whole world or a big harmless country that everyone likes , sort of like a really big Canada?

USA wouldn't be a Super Power.

The US wouldn't have received British money, islands, secrets and orders for planes that they may never have made; would not have received German scientists for their space race and other futuristic programmes;  wouldn't have received Japanese technology and other advances they were making etc., etc., etc.

It's hard to say just what the USA would be doing today.  Would they have even participated in the Vietnam war?  Would there have been subsequent European wars?  Would they have sent out spies to gather world wide technology and resources much like the Japanese originally did?

I think the USA would be like modern day Japan.  Of course, all IMHO!

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Replicant
USA wouldn't be a Super Power.

The US wouldn't have received British money, islands, secrets and orders for planes that they may never have made; would not have received German scientists for their space race and other futuristic programmes;  wouldn't have received Japanese technology and other advances they were making etc., etc., etc.

It's hard to say just what the USA would be doing today.  Would they have even participated in the Vietnam war?  Would there have been subsequent European wars?  Would they have sent out spies to gather world wide technology and resources much like the Japanese originally did?

I think the USA would be like modern day Japan.  Of course, all IMHO!

I think the USA would have more than  it's share of German, Japanese, Russian, British and other scientists immigrate over, just like we did before WWII.

The US was one of the most technologically advanced and the worlds richest country on it's own merrit before war.

[Munkii]

Originally posted by Replicant
I think the USA would be like modern day Japan.  Of course, all IMHO!

That wouldn't be so bad.. except the weird porn.

[GRUNHERZ]

Henry Ford did not run ford plants in germany during ww2?  

Tell me how could he stop them producing after the war?

Are you saying that he should never have invested in germany? That he should have been more prescient about hitler (unlike all of europe)?

Hitler made germany an attactive investment area during the depression beacuse of its economic strength, people invested an whoopdeee doo that makes them nazis...,

[GRUNHERZ]

We can learn a great deal today from the United States' earlier fascinations with "corporatism," as fascism was once called.

And this is of cpourse what its all about, isnt it?

Just like I said earlier in the thread...

"Some of you lefty automatic corporate haters are just a treasure..."

[Monk]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Ever read Robert Harris - I think the book was Fatherland where Germany does win WW2 and America stays out of the war - it takes place in the 60's 20 years after the war.

Never read the book but saw the movie with Rutger Hauer.

[Replicant]

Originally posted by NUKE
I think the USA would have more than  it's share of German, Japanese, Russian, British and other scientists immigrate over, just like we did before WWII.

The US was one of the most technologically advanced and the worlds richest country on it's own merrit before war.

I'm not denying that, but often power comes from who can be the first or most advanced the quickest.  Everyone else is then catching up.  I think that Germany would have done this and everyone else would be trying to catch up with them.

On another thought, it would have been interesting to see if Great Britain had relinquished its Commonwealth as early as it did do in RL.  Would the war have made the commonwealth pull together more and be stronger.... that's a difficult one?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GScholz
Grun, Henry Ford was in control of the German Ford plants until Germany declared war on the US. That means that for the first two years of the war he was helping Germany's war effort against the UK and the Russians and every other nation Germany attacked and occupied during those two years.

The US was officially nuetral up to that point. We allowed businesess to be owned in lots of countries I'm sure.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GScholz
Of course. I'm saying he helped the Nazis ... not that it was illegal.

That's fine, but at that time it was just another war in Europe. Nobody knew what was going to be revealed later on regarding the Nazis.

To imply HF was like a Nazi and sympothized with them and willingly helped their cause is not right.

[cpxxx]

What would the USA be like today, a super power that is hated by the whole world or a big harmless country that everyone likes , sort of like a really big Canada?

First off the whole world does not hate the USA. Only the kind of people who the USA entered the war to fight against, hate the USA. The fascists the communists and the extremists of all kinds.

They don't like the USA because it mostly thwarts their aims.  Some people in  America try to spread the perception the America is hated because they want to to return to the kind of isolationism that Lindbergh and others espoused. It won't work and Americans enjoy the concept of freedom too much to sit idly by and let the world go to hell, literally in the WW2 case. It's not in the interests of American big business either.

So don't buy the lie that the USA is hated by most of the world.

But to return to the original question. I think the question itself is flawed. America was dragged into the war. America was in the way of Japan's ambition in the Far East They had to eliminate America's fleet and they tried to on December 7th. Hitler also gave the USA no choice by declaring war on it.  America had no more choice than France, Poland or Holland. Holland was neutral but with Germany as a neighbour that option was not possible. Only Geographical separation and size prevented the same fate from befalling the USA.

American was in the way of Japan and Hitler's interests. The only possible way America could have stayed out of the war for Japan to be satisfied with it's foray into China and for Germany to remain within it's borders or at least it's claimed greater German borders.

In that case the post war world would probably be red in Europe. I think Germany would have become unstuck against the USSR in the end.  The USSR really didn't need US aid it would simply have taken longer.
Once that war had finished, Stalin would have turned his attentions to Japan. Now that would be an interesting war.

[Capt. Pork]

I concur.

Empty shipping lanes in the North Atlantic would have done nothing to thwart the Russian resolve and desire for revenge, undo their Earth Scorching, quell their industrial capacity or their vast numerical superiority, or turn their winter in to a second summer.

The Germans were doomed the moment Hitler sent them East. It would have taken longer, for sure, but the sheer size and brutality of Russia and its armed forces would have swallowed the Germans eventually. No technological novelties would have been enough to save them.

As for the US, I agree again. This question is silly. Some say we'd be speaking German or Japanese today if America had not entered the war--doesn't that imply that America was defeated by a german or japanese aggressor? American interests were at stake early on, and ignoring the war in Europe or Asia would be no different than ignoring a Stateside invasion--or one at Pearl Harbor, for that matter.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Replicant
USA wouldn't be a Super Power.

The US wouldn't have received British money, islands, secrets and orders for planes that they may never have made; IMHO!

So the British made us a super power.....If thats true how come your food still sux....Chutney....YECCCCHHHH!!!!

[Capt. Pork]

Don't forget their various 'puddings'