what would the world be like if

[GRUNHERZ]

Its amazing you are calling a guy who tried to prevent a world war and funded peace groups for decades a nazi and that he is responsible for ww2 and the holocaust by extension...  

How did ford use slave labor in germany? Prove that ford used any illegal labor in his german factories before december 7 1941. Afther that it dont matter cuz he had no contol?

Ford was a quack anti-semite, he ralized it was a mistake and stopped being one when he realized it was all based on lies - he was a production genious but politaccly naive. I guess norway does not favor forgiveness.

But I want to hear from you that you belive Henry Ford's life has been a net negative impact to humanity..  Say it if you think so.... I dare you, too...

No spell check, I dont care.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by GScholz
Shaddup, I'm watching "The West Wing"! I'll deal with you to you later.

Yuck, I'll leave you be then...

"I'll deal with you to you later"

Are u drinking?

BTW they really have that show in norway playing now?

[GRUNHERZ]

No mention of slave labor there before december 41...

Ford played no major role in getting hitler to power, they won by having the nazis become a large party in the bundestag through bad elections and intimidation. Many german people wanted him in - they fell to his promises and propaganda.  But if you wish to fantasize that ford was a big cause of it then so be it.

I am not surprised that french subsidiaries of american companies collaborated with the nazis, are you?  Its typicall of the weak french character held by many of them at the time - they also murdered USA airmen in vietnam bu giving them to the japanese.

Ford "gave us cheap cars." Typical limited, materialistic, zero sum, socialist thinking.

Ford, his products and innovations created millions of high paying jobs and trillions of dollars of wealth for america, for all americans and really the world. Thats far more accurate.

He gave nobody nothing, he created the condition where gainfully employed people created value for themselves, for ford and for the communty at large. His wage rate increases made possibvle by productivity made millions of americans wealthier and help grow the economy. Gave them, gave them.... Thts always the problem with socialist thinking, zero sum, nobody can create additional value... Get away from that GS.

Which tracked vehicles did ford factories produce for the invasion of france and russia?  Did he Produce Panzer
I? Panzer II? Panzer III? Panzer IV? Sdkfz 250 and 251?  Henschel, Hanomag, MAN and a whole lot of german companies would beg to disagree.  

"And he continued to give them these vehicles long after the war started, and even to the very end of the war did Ford's factories in Vichy France make vehicles for the Nazis."

How culd he stop that? Are you really so naive as to think vichi france was even remotely independant in fact?

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by GScholz
... and no, we don't forgive Nazis in Norway ... just like you don't forgive Communists.

Anybody who who honestly renounces  that vile filth is fine in my book. I would forgive them and I would give them that chance up until the last second... They just have to decide.

[GRUNHERZ]

Nice to see your arguments braking down to the point that you accuse me of being an anti-semite...  

The only response to atht is that I'm confident in that not being the case about me - you may however wish to keep your fantasy, I appreciate it as sign of your weakness in this argument and my strength.

However in intrest of decency and for your charcters sake I do ask that you recant that accusation - its quite pointless, has little impact on me and only hurts you.

Now, where were we?

How did ford control the operations of its plant during wartime germany? Did he fly in from micxhigan and set up the plant?

What exactly did he produce? Which tracked vehicles? Which trucks and in what quantities?

Are you suggesting that he had direct control of his plants in wartime germany  and that he could order them to not use slaves or to stop producing war material and instead make hair dryers or washing machines?

Here is some food for thought - from obvious evil nazi source...

This counters many of your claims, including on the control issue during wartime.

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/ford.html#4

It does say slave labor was used between 41 and 45, but it argues convincingly that US ford could not have known about it... You see GS when I see evidence that may not suit my prejudices I acknowlege it, will you do tyhe same?

Like I said countless times ford although a brilliant genious of car manufacture was a a simple and naive political man swept up by anti semetism which he condemned later in his life when he found he was decived in the info he got.

You on the other hand are bent characterising hgim  as hitlers number one man and fellow excecitioner who did everything possible to make sure the nazis won world war two up untill the last day of the war.

I counter that erronious perception with the truth of a man who tried to stop ww1. A man who funded numerous anti war, socioalist left leaning peace groups for decades. I counter it with a man who enabled the wealth of millions of americans  and their move away from early industrial poverty and into the middle class. A man who made car ownership possible to millions of isolated farmers, enabling them to transport their goods to markery. A man who created jobs and wealth for millions in related industies.  As for ford war production lets see some of your numbers...

We all know how much war material he produced in the USA as did GM and chrsler and any of the other corporations you seem to fancy as nazi fascist stooge...

And of course how did ford kill thousands of jews?

Pleae read the linked article, I welcome your respons and hopefull will see a positive cahnge in your hostility towards ford.

[SOB]

You're both NAZIs.

[Pei]

Originally posted by SOB
You're both NAZIs.

I think the USA is great, apart from SOB who is a banana.
(apologies to banana)!

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by SOB
You're both NAZIs.

But you live in Oregon!

[SOB]

Lucky me, I could live in California!  Blecchhh.

[Airhead]

The parallels between Hitler's Germany and Bush's America are chilling.

Of course being a "Bush Youth" sounds odd.

[GtoRA2]

Airhead oh great Xtroller!


What are some of those parallels?

[Charon]

Had the US not had enterred WW2 then they wouldn't have had many, if any, German scientists to bolster their technology into what it is today. Of course it's all hyperthetical but Germany would more likely to be the super power of today rather than say, the US. Again, IMHO! What ifs can never really be substantiated!

German engineering was always good (but not an order of magnitude beyond anyone else the vast majority of areas), but German science took a significant hit during the Nazi era. Not only did many “intellectual elites” (Jewish and otherwise) emigrate but science became bureaucratic and political. Look at the team that ran the Manhattan Project and imagine it working (Jewish members aside) in a Nazi controlled and led environment -- just don’t see it happening. They were loose, creative, politically diverse (which had it’s problems to be sure), opinionated, eccentric, risk takers … what’s needed for theoretical science. It’s been noted that areas like physics (which Germany commanded a pre-Nazi lead) were almost thought of in the same way as the “degenerate art” the regime worked so hard to repress after Hitler came to power. The allies were way ahead in areas like nuclear research, radar, computers and codebreaking. And in many cases, these allied advances were not even considered early on (at great military loss) because they were thought impossible or impractical by Nazi scientists.  Now, the Nazi’s might have been able to engineer a better atomic bomb -- if only they had thought one practical in the first place.

From an engineering standpoint the Nazi’s were marginally ahead with jet technology, well ahead with rocket technology (that was a decade away from having any real military application of merit for the work involved in developing it), somewhat behind in automotive technologies (IMO), well behind in industrial engineering and production engineering, ahead in some ancillary areas like optics… but not quite up to the mythology that has since developed. I’ll take the Manhattan Project alone over the sum of German technology during WW2.

Charon

[Capt. Pork]

Originally posted by Airhead
The parallels between Hitler's Germany and Bush's America are chilling.

Of course being a "Bush Youth" sounds odd.

Name five commonalities:

[VFJACKAL]

Originally posted by Airhead
The parallels between Hitler's Germany and Bush's America are chilling.

Of course being a "Bush Youth" sounds odd.

Oh this ought to be good.....Tell us how you came to this conclusion please.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Capt. Pork
Name five commonalities:

Only five??  Piece of cake!

Hell I can do just Bush and Hitler, the countries would be even easier.

Both are homo sapiens.
Both are caucasian.
Both are male.
Both have a full head of hair.
Both served in thier countries military.

If you want to be particular about the "country" thing, just take it up a level and stick, "Both countries had head of states that are...".

And that was just of the top of my head.  I think the question needs to be clarified more.