Author Topic: Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?  (Read 1795 times)

Offline Pongo

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2004, 08:40:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
What is it you were saying about mindlessness and propoganda again pongo?

MiniD


You know. propoganda

where could such an untrue account of events come from?
 

Of  course all sides do it..who is to be believed?

Offline Pongo

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2004, 08:41:13 PM »
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ahhh, excuse me? I don't even have your email address.  And before you make claims like that, best get your facts straight, son.


ah must be someone else that goes by your handle.

................ripsnort@earthlink.net

Offline hawker238

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2004, 08:41:15 PM »
Gentlemen, please, this can all be settled by sending a sniper down on a secret mission....



Sorry, couldn't resist....:o

Offline Mini D

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2004, 09:32:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
You know. propoganda

where could such an untrue account of events come from?
It must be the CIA!
Quote
Of  course all sides do it..who is to be believed?
When did you see this film?  Or do you just talk **** based on what you read on the internet?

Afterall, you came in here condemning 80% of America as ignorant because you have some kind of special knowledge of all that is Venezuela.  Let me guess... you did a bit of time down there.  That's the best way to become an expert on a region... spend a few months there.  It's how I became an expert on Colombia.  I now know more about it than 80% of Canada and all of Colombia.

Here's another point... nothing you pointed to suggests anything as far as U.S. involvement.  A brief mention of it getting our "attention" in a flippant manner... but nothing else.  You ever wonder why that is?

I believe you spend too much time finding ways for the U.S. to be directly responsible for too much.  I also believe you give most of the world too little credit for their actions... unless they happen to be 80% of the U.S... then you're more than happy to assign what you feel to be the proper credit.

MiniD

Offline Charon

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2004, 11:15:14 PM »
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BTW Charon, I recall pulling a few articles from NPN for a legislative member I was working with a couple of years ago. He hadn't heard of the practice of zone pricing before. I can't recall the author, but your name sounds familiar.


Probably me Crow. Was it the "Are the Majors Exiting Retail" article? I just did another 5,000 words on zone pricing and non-price vertical restraints last month. One of the two or three articles from hell you create each year where you have 10 sources and 10,000 words of quotes and 15 ideas trying to sort themselves out 2 days after edit close.

Quote
Honest statment. Far better then deniying what is going on and for whos benifit. But the 80% of the population whose lives might be made a little better by a more fair distribution of the oil revenues do not see it that way and the only way to keep it as controled as Bush and co want it is to remove thier ability to select thier own leaders.
So back to my original question for which I have been soundly roasted.
Why is democracy bad for Venezuela?
Cause its bad for big oil..
Correct?


I agree with Crow about our track record at nation building in Latin America and the fact that we should just keep our hands off. Let them get the democratic dictator they deserve.  But, it's not really clear that Bush is going to heroic efforts to get rid of Chavez (unlike Hussein), though clearly life would be easier without him in power. In fact, the strikes generally serve to distract the uneducated poor who vote for him from the fact that for all the promises he has made there has been little real change.  Before the last one there was growing unrest and sinking support among his base, but Chavez's ability to outlast the strikers gave him a public relations "victory" that boosted support back up above pre-strike levels. I suppose we’ll really see how democratic Chavez is when he loses his first election.

Frankly, I don't really know that in the long term Big Oil really cares all that much about Venezuela. There are price spikes now over his threats to cut production (which boost oil industry profits btw -- what a tragedy for big oil), but I doubt we'll see a 1973 any time soon unless there is a major disruption in the Middle East. (We may see record prices this summer btw, for a variety of reasons. Just have to wait and see.) Plus you don't necessarily need to replace Chavez, you can just continue to work to steadily to replace Venezuelan crude with other sources of supply. Now there’s Iraq. More a Saudi hedge, IMO, but oil is oil.

Charon
« Last Edit: March 01, 2004, 11:18:13 PM by Charon »

Offline moot

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2004, 11:15:14 PM »
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
"If a recall vote is aborted over and above the protestations of international observers, Chavez will have clearly violated the Venezuelan constitution he himself drafted, and he will clearly have stepped outside the bounds of even the most bare-bones definition of democracy. He appears, as of today, very close to joining his hero Fidel Castro as the hemisphere's second out-and-out dictator. "


I think this ^^ sums it up nicely.


and to think he is family.. :cool:
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline FUNKED1

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2004, 11:27:54 PM »
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Originally posted by Pongo
What proof would you accept Funked.? You accept the word of the state deparment fed press without proofs.  
What proofs exists are redely available to any one that wants to type
"chavez coup" into google.


I'm gettin a whiff of boozonics here.  Good times.  :aok

Offline Pongo

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2004, 12:12:09 AM »
Mini
I have indeed seen the film. I havent read the rest of your rant. question asked and answered.

Offline Pongo

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2004, 12:13:18 AM »
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I'm gettin a whiff of boozonics here.  Good times.  :aok


Well read up and decide for your self funky.
or just type "death to amerika" and what ever else passes for thought in funky land tonight..

Offline Engine

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2004, 02:51:41 AM »
I like you Pongo, you're like those cool guys with the pasteboard "THE END IS NIGH" signs.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2004, 03:07:53 AM »
Yea Pongo you are a cool guy,  you reallyt shouldnt be so taken up with weird conspiracy theories.

Offline FUNKED1

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2004, 03:15:16 AM »
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Originally posted by Pongo
Well read up and decide for your self funky.
or just type "death to amerika" and what ever else passes for thought in funky land tonight..


My noodle is bigger than yours.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2004, 03:52:24 AM »
Pongo why do you think Chaves is a democratic guy?

Reading thrugh the thread your stance reminded me of all those americans in the late 20s and 1930s who were absloulutely convinced the USSR was this great free democratic state lead by a glorious peoples revolutinary stalin...  Why be so naive?

Offline crowMAW

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2004, 07:09:31 AM »
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Probably me Crow. Was it the "Are the Majors Exiting Retail" article?

I seem to recall one had a cute title, like "The Price is Right" and the other escapes me...maybe the "Mathematics of Pricing" or some such.  Anyway...small world, huh.

Zone pricing is a very interesting subject, and I'm surprised more folks don't know about how their local prices are determined.

The economist side of me would really like to see the mathematical model that the brand suppliers use.  I'm sure it is pretty amazing.  But I'd guess it is also a very closely held secret.

Offline Ripsnort

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Why is democrocy a bad idea for Venezuela?
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2004, 07:15:52 AM »
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Originally posted by Pongo
ah must be someone else that goes by your handle.

................ripsnort@earthlink.net


That email addy has been invalid for over a year. I've been on Comcast.  Did it ever occur to you that someone thats infected might have an old email address of mine? Did it occur to you that these viruses go out and spread themselves via others address books?

:rolleyes: